Chloe comes to Superman comics

[DonC]

Dig it here. (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=139973)

Kurt Busiek is bringing Chloe Sullivan to the Superman comics. Reading the article, I didn't know bringing a TV character to the comics was such an involved process. DC had to get permission from Warner Bros. and Allison Mack.

Can't wait to see what Kurt has planned.

[Rattlehead]

I'm fine with it as long as they don't try to shoehorn her into being from Clark's past. Just let her be an entirely new character to the DCU.

[Ilash]

If Smallville was in any way a good show, I would probably be thrilled about this as it is... eh.

You know what would be cool though, is if they introduced Veronica Mars into the Superman mythos instead. She's a pretty similar character to Chloe - only, ya know, she's actually an interesting character.

[CMBMOOL]

It's about time for some more DCU television exposure. :D

[Spiffy]

This is dumb.

I mean the reason people even like Chloe is because she came off as Lois-Laney in a show that had no Lois Lane early on.

The comic book HAS a Lois Lane.

[AllisterH]

Yeah, I have to admit that I'm wondering what slot Chloe will fill in his life.

[CBikle]

Even though Smallville has become a very dumb show, it has a few good actors on it (Allison Mack, John Schneider and the 2 actors that play the Luthors).

I think Chloe and Lionel Luthor will gradually become part of the comics and other media just like other changes/ additions to the Superman mythos, like his ability to fly (borrowed from the cartoon) and Kryptonite (from the radio show), the mirror-world look of the Phantom Zone (from the 1st movie) and the big cellophane "S" insignia that he threw at Zod in Superman 2.

Well...maybe not the last one.

[Iroquois]

Shouldn't the show take more from the comics, instead of the other way around? Seriously, I like Busiek (usually), but this New Earth is freaking train wreck in terms of conceptualization and ideas. Seventy percent of it is Silver Age, 2% is Post-COIE and the rest is Donnerverse and Smallvilleverse.

Having said that, I don't doubt that she could have potential for something good as a character, but after the recent "Third Kryptonian", I've learnt not to count much on stunts like that.

[CBikle]

Shouldn't the show take more from the comics, instead of the other way around? Seriously, I like Busiek (usually), but this New Earth is freaking train wreck in terms of conceptualization and ideas. Seventy percent of it is Silver Age, 2% is Post-COIE and the rest is Donnerverse and Smallvilleverse.

Having said that, I don't doubt that she could have potential for something good as a character, but after the recent "Third Kryptonian", I've learnt not to count much on stunts like that.

From the get-go, Chloe was and has been the only element of Smallville that has always worked and been popular; it makes sense that they'd want to incorporate the stuff that "works" into their comics, like the character of Chloe.

Next: Gus Gorman from Superman III


http://www.supermaniii.com/siiiweb/siiiz94.jpg

[Pessimistic4179]

From the get-go, Chloe was and has been the only element of Smallville that has always worked and been popular; it makes sense that they'd want to incorporate the stuff that "works" into their comics, like the character of Chloe.

Next: Gus Gorman from Superman III


http://www.supermaniii.com/siiiweb/siiiz94.jpg

She worked because she's basically Lois Lane, only blonde.

She's a Mary Sue character created specifically for the show using characteristics that have often been ascribed to Lois. Making her Lois' cousin is text book fan fiction, creating ties to a preexisting character to legitimize a character without any real development to speak of.

Had she been developed using qualities that didn't already exist in Lois, and she still became popular, I'd have a far easier time accepting her inclusion into comic book continuity.

Jimmy Olsen and Perry White made similar transitions from other media to the comics, but they weren't tied to characters already on the canvas or displayed attributes nearly identical to said characters.

That said, I don't really care one way or the other about Chloe. I don't watch Smallville because of her, and I'm not going to stop buying Superman because of her.

[CBikle]

She worked because she's basically Lois Lane, only blonde.

She's a Mary Sue character created specifically for the show using characteristics that have often been ascribed to Lois. Making her Lois' cousin is text book fan fiction, creating ties to a preexisting character to legitimize a character without any real development to speak of.

Had she been developed using qualities that didn't already exist in Lois, and she still became popular, I'd have a far easier time accepting her inclusion into comic book continuity.

Jimmy Olsen and Perry White made similar transitions from other media to the comics, but they weren't tied to characters already on the canvas or displayed attributes nearly identical to said characters.

That said, I don't really care one way or the other about Chloe. I don't watch Smallville because of her, and I'm not going to stop buying Superman because of her.

I hear you. In any case, for whatever reason, the character/actress is well-received, so it makes sense that DC would try to work that into the comics.

[Pessimistic4179]

I hear you. In any case, for whatever reason, the character/actress is well-received, so it makes sense that DC would try to work that into the comics.

I'm not knocking the character by any means, or her popularity.

I just wish they'd focus on reestablishing the preexisting supporting cast rather than add another one from a show that really plays fast and loose with some of the aspects of Superman.

I'd personally rather see Lucy and Ron Troupe show up again, Lois' actual family ties, and see them developed further. Hell, Ron and Jimmy could strike up a friendship, but I'm basing that on their being closer in age to each other than they are to Clark, and Lois and Lucy's mother could show up every now and then as well, not to mention seeing an issue here and there on Perry's career, which could finally lead to the fans realizing that he knows full well that CK is Superman.

Chloe just seems unnecessary to me more than anything.

[marshal99]

It's been coming , Kurt Busiek has been inserting smallville continuity into the superman stories he writes.
Kurt is a good writer but it puzzles me why he is trying to insert smallville continuity into the comics whenever he can. Chloe serves as the oracle character in smallville , she would be an excess character in the comics.

[saintsaucey]

Fucking amazing. Kurt i'm so glad you are doing this. im sure you'll read this thread eventually and i want you to know not every one feels this is a bad idea. Im so glad you finally pulled this off. good for you. glad she's not gonna be a carbon copy, hopefully we'll see herand jimmy hanging out though. that could be interesting considering jimmy now knows about clark. Thanks again

Saintsaucey

[Hush Little Batman]

*Deleted*

I accidentally double-posted.

[Hush Little Batman]

I don't see the big deal here. Chloe is an immensely popular character and may wind up really adding to the mythos.

It wouldn't be the first time...

http://img182.imagevenue.com/loc71/th_48252_225px-HarleyqLG_122_71lo.jpg

[Pessimistic4179]

Fucking amazing. Kurt i'm so glad you are doing this. im sure you'll read this thread eventually and i want you to know not every one feels this is a bad idea. Im so glad you finally pulled this off. good for you. glad she's not gonna be a carbon copy, hopefully we'll see herand jimmy hanging out though. that could be interesting considering jimmy now knows about clark. Thanks again

Saintsaucey

I can't speak for anyone else, but I never thought it was a bad idea.

I think it's unnecessary when you have preexisting characters that could use further development. But I'm not faulting Kurt for doing what he thinks is best for the book, and I enjoy his writing too much to give up on a book when I happen to disagree with one direction he wants to go in.

Pete Ross, Lana Lang, Lois Lane, Lucy Lane, Ron Troupe, Jimmy Olsen, and Perry White are all characters that could use more face time, not just in Kurt's book, but in Action Comics as well, and I definitely trust both Kurt and Geoff enough as writers to see where they go with what they have planned.

I also happen to think Kurt's one of the few writers that can turn me around on a character. But I loathe Smallville with a passion, and that admittedly has colored my view of Chloe Sullivan, but again, I trust Kurt to write quality stories about Superman and his family of characters.

[Kurt Busiek]

It's been coming , Kurt Busiek has been inserting smallville continuity into the superman stories he writes.
Kurt is a good writer but it puzzles me why he is trying to insert smallville continuity into the comics whenever he can.

I'm a little puzzled. What other Smallville continuity have I inserted? If I'm doing it whenever I can, then it must be a bunch, right?

And Chloe's Smallville cast, not continuity. We're bringing her in, not any stories from the TV show.

kdb

[Kid Quick Foots]

This is dumb.

I mean the reason people even like Chloe is because she came off as Lois-Laney in a show that had no Lois Lane early on.

The comic book HAS a Lois Lane.


couldnt agree MORE. they only created her to be a Lois knock off . why everyone is so big on her, and getting her into the books is beyond me. The only thing i can think is she is fairly cute and alot of horny dudes want to see more of her?!? idk, her character is lame imho, but thats just me.

[Slaughter]

Oh god, NOOOO!! Not more Smallvile ****!!! First Lionel Luthor (thanks A LOT, Mr. Mark Waid. If you see "Lex Luthor: Unauthorized Biography" burned in your front law, you know who did it), after that, the stupid "Lex and Clark were friends in Smallvile" and then the Silver-Age Krypton (Byrne's all the way). God no.

[Spiffy]

Oh god, NOOOO!! Not more Smallvile ****!!! First Lionel Luthor (thanks A LOT, Mr. Mark Waid. If you see "Lex Luthor: Unauthorized Biography" burned in your front law, you know who did it), after that, the stupid "Lex and Clark were friends in Smallvile" and then the Silver-Age Krypton (Byrne's all the way). God no.
Yeah, and to be honest as a life long Lois Lane admirer, I kind of resent the way Chloe has been inserted into Lois' rightful territory.

Lois is the spunky girl in the Superman mythos. You don't need a Spunky Girl Junior.

[CBikle]

But seriously, MORE GUS GORMAN !

http://www.supermaniii.com/siiiweb/siiiz10.jpg

[Ann Nichols]

From the get-go, Chloe was and has been the only element of Smallville that has always worked and been popular; it makes sense that they'd want to incorporate the stuff that "works" into their comics, like the character of Chloe.
<snip>


Chloe is my favorite character on "Smallville." Never could stand their version of Lana and am not terribly fond of their version of Lois.

couldnt agree MORE. they only created her to be a Lois knock off . why everyone is so big on her, and getting her into the books is beyond me. The only thing i can think is she is fairly cute and alot of horny dudes want to see more of her?!? idk, her character is lame imho, but thats just me.

53 year-old woman who has no sexual interest in Chloe whatsoever, thanks.
Besides, I watched the old b&w "Superman" series when I was a child (the Fleischer cartoons, too). I bought the Lois Lane comic in the 1970s, and reprints of the old 50s-60s stories. My memories of Lois are mostly as a pain in the backside. Lana Lang in the Superboy comics wasn't that great, either.
I like Chloe!

[Ardeen]

Yeah, and to be honest as a life long Lois Lane admirer, I kind of resent the way Chloe has been inserted into Lois' rightful territory.

Lois is the spunky girl in the Superman mythos. You don't need a Spunky Girl Junior.

I agree. I've never seen Chloe Sullivan's appeal. At best, I suppose I've viewed her as a poor man's Lois Lane.

Also, I'm having a hard time envisioning what Chloe's place in the DCU would be like. The roles that she plays on the show are mostly filled in the comics so I don't feel compelled to embrace the comic version of the character.

Lois already has a younger relative in Lucy Lane, Lois is already the reigning spunky reporter girl, Clark already has a high school best friend. Lastly, who needs Chloe's computer skills when Oracle is the DCU's premiere info broker? I'd rather have Clark interact more with pre-existing characters than a derivative newcomer.

[botch]

Even though Smallville has become a very dumb show, it has a few good actors on it (Allison Mack, John Schneider and the 2 actors that play the Luthors).

I think Chloe and Lionel Luthor will gradually become part of the comics and other media just like other changes/ additions to the Superman mythos, like his ability to fly (borrowed from the cartoon) and Kryptonite (from the radio show), the mirror-world look of the Phantom Zone (from the 1st movie) and the big cellophane "S" insignia that he threw at Zod in Superman 2.

Well...maybe not the last one.

dumb show? yeah because superman comics are intellectual high art. the comics that have a super dog.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

I personally love Chloe, and I think it's a good idea to bring her into the Superman comics.

[Animation]

I love this addition also. I'm looking forward to seeing her. Of course, a lot of the appeal of the character is the unrequited love and the devotion to Clark, plus the loyalty. Making her a different generation means she will need to have some totally different way to be compelling. I dont mind that she is a curious investigator type. I do wish that she could be Clark's age somehow and know the secret, or have found out way back but never said anything, and now finally moved to metropolis. Then she could keep the unrequited love and loyalty thing.

Ah well, I'm looking forward to whatever is done with her. While there are plenty of supporting types that exist already, I just want to see her make it over to the main comics. I'm all for them developing other existing characters also, but I'm glad to see Chloe make it!

Lewis

[Bored at 3:00AM]

From the sounds of it, this is a round about way of bringing a Lucy Lane-type character back. My guess is they'll hook her up with Jimmy Olsen within a year or two....just like they did with Lucy.

[Captain Smith]

The big problem with grafting Smallville into the comic DCU is that there is no way that Lex, Lois, Jimmy, etc. will not immediately recognize Clark as Superman.

The TV show doesn't have to deal with it because they are pre-tights and flights.

Just suspend disbelief but that's the way it goes.

Poor Chloe, her hots for Clark are much worse than the old BW TV show Lois pining after Supes.

[BoosterBronze]

She worked because she's basically Lois Lane, only blonde.

She's a Mary Sue character created specifically for the show using characteristics that have often been ascribed to Lois. Making her Lois' cousin is text book fan fiction, creating ties to a preexisting character to legitimize a character without any real development to speak of.


It seemed to me that making her Lois's cousin YEARS after she was introduced was a way of introducing Lois, not legitamizing a character (whatever that means).

ANd for waht it's worth, I have a hard time taking a criticism seriously anytime I hear 'Mary Sue' because it's such a meaningless term.

[BoosterBronze]

Double Post-

But I'd like to take this moment and say I liked Chloe and Smallville and see no problem introducing her, or any character/concept that was good from any other medium into the comic.

[CBikle]

dumb show? yeah because superman comics are intellectual high art. the comics that have a super dog.

Hey, at least that was different; Smallville only seems to have one plot that the writers can't quite get right.

Smallville was a really good idea that has been executed terribly. The show has some really good actors on it too, but there's only so much they can do with the tripe they're handed.

Honestly, adding a super-dog to the show can only be a step up compared to the episode where Clark battles evil cheerleaders with Kryptonite-spiked Gatorade (Kryptonade ?).

[Kage Kisaragi]

Dig it here. (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=139973)

Kurt Busiek is bringing Chloe Sullivan to the Superman comics. Reading the article, I didn't know bringing a TV character to the comics was such an involved process. DC had to get permission from Warner Bros. and Allison Mack.

Can't wait to see what Kurt has planned.

Well I can see why they need Ms Mack's permission as they are more than likely gonna use her Likeness as the initial look for the character. (I was told comic company's have to do that anytime they wanna use a actors likeness in a comic.) as far as Warner Brothers goes, I thought that Warner Brothers owned DC anyway? Isn't it all in the family?

Edit: Well, its not for likeness reasons, I just read the article so I guess maybe Allison owns some rights to the character lol, wouldn't that be a trip? ... maybe look like chloe but not allison by way of maybe making her taller or, maybe more robust? who knows.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

The big problem with grafting Smallville into the comic DCU is that there is no way that Lex, Lois, Jimmy, etc. will not immediately recognize Clark as Superman.

The TV show doesn't have to deal with it because they are pre-tights and flights.

Just suspend disbelief but that's the way it goes.

Poor Chloe, her hots for Clark are much worse than the old BW TV show Lois pining after Supes.

From the sounds of it, in the comics, Chloe didn't know Clark in Smallville.

[Kage Kisaragi]

is it just me or is everything there not doing with the character version of Chloe everything we loved about Chloe?

[Alexx1]

is it just me or is everything there not doing with the character version of Chloe everything we loved about Chloe?

Exactly. And that's why it doesn't make much sense to bring her on in this capacity. Her name will be Chloe but she won't be Chloe in the character sense fans of the show are familiar with. I agree with who ever said it earlier, work, expand and flesh out the existing characters that mean something to readers or that readers are at least familiar with their history, and give them more face time in the comics. Giving a character a recognizable name won't mean anything if they don't recognize her traits.

[Pessimistic4179]

It seemed to me that making her Lois's cousin YEARS after she was introduced was a way of introducing Lois, not legitamizing a character (whatever that means).

ANd for waht it's worth, I have a hard time taking a criticism seriously anytime I hear 'Mary Sue' because it's such a meaningless term.

I can see your first point as it relates to the television show, but making her Lois' cousin gives her ties to the Superman mythos in general, thereby legitimizing her and making her transition into the comics rather convenient. Had they kept her independent of any relation to preexisting characters, I might've been able to accept her development as a character more, as she would've done it on the merits of the writers who created her.

The Mary Sue argument may be meaningless to you, but it certainly applies to Chloe. She didn't exist prior to Smallville, and she's been written as having traits that are similar to an already existing character in the mythos. Still, to be fair, I can admit I might've used the Mary Sue argument for lack of a better term in trying to explain why I don't like the character.

All that said, this is a moot point, as I can't do anything but stop buying Superman if I don't want to read about Chloe, and since I enjoy it too much to do that, I'll have to give Kurt a chance to turn me around on the character, because Smallville certainly hasn't.

Disclaimer : Having just finished reading up fully on the definition of a Mary Sue character, I'm forced to disavow its presence in my argument, as it has, as one poster pointed out, undercut my own criticism. Apologies for that.

[Anthony]

The Mary Sue argument may be meaningless to you, but it certainly applies to Chloe. She didn't exist prior to Smallville, and she's been written as having traits that are similar to an already existing character in the mythos. Still, to be fair, I can admit I might've used the Mary Sue argument for lack of a better term in trying to explain why I don't like the character.

That's not really a Mary Sue, it's more like a homage character. Mary Sue's typically are author self insertions into mythos. Using an existing character as a template parallels paying homage to that character.

I'm actually surprised you guys didn't ask Kurt himself some questions when he showed up.

[Pessimistic4179]

That's not really a Mary Sue, it's more like a homage character. Mary Sue's typically are author self insertions into mythos. Using an existing character as a template parallels paying homage to that character.

I'm actually surprised you guys didn't ask Kurt himself some questions when he showed up.

Yeah, I just read up on Mary Sues. I'm a freaking idiot. It doesn't change my views of Chloe, but I can't label her a Mary Sue anymore.

So apologies to her fans for that.

[CBikle]

is it just me or is everything there not doing with the character version of Chloe everything we loved about Chloe?

Well, that's just a bad idea then.

If this is true, why even bother ?

[dupersuper]

The problem with adding Chloe is the same problen they have when they play up Zod; a big part of the appeal is the actor. Still, I'll keep readin' quite happily.