Yay! Bali!

[darkhanamaru]

Maybe it is not enough but at least it is a start as long as the U.S. doesn't fuck it up in the 11th hour. I am really upset that the US did fuck up the committment to 25% - 40% cuts in emmissions. Since Benn couldn't change our minds, I think the EU should start hitting US exports with a CO2 tax.

"The world was poised to agree a historic deal to tackle the threat of global warming last night, as a last-minute compromise appeared to have saved the UN climate talks. Yvo de Boer, the UN's top climate official, said countries were on the "brink of agreement" as the Bali discussions dragged on into the early hours.

The agreement, which lays the foundation for a new worldwide treaty to regulate greenhouse gas emissions, was expected to be finalised this morning.

The breakthrough follows two weeks of insults, arguments and threatened boycotts and trade sanctions, as nations wrangled over who should take responsibility for major cuts in carbon pollution.

Ban Ki-moon, UN secretary general, flew back to the talks late last night from East Timor to facilitate eleventh-hour negotiations. Campaigners and officials celebrated in the corridors of the convention centre, as groups of ministers remained locked away in separate rooms to hammer out the final details.

De Boer said: "We are about to embark on something that for many years countries have been unwilling to embark on. Countries are treating this with great caution. They don't want to be led up the garden path."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2007/dec/15/bali.climatechange3

[gary bolt]

Not to be too pessimistic but the US proved with the Kyoto agreement that they are willing to fuck it up in the 13th hour and that international environmental agreements mean shit to them. Thanks to the tar sands in Alberta Canada isn't doing much better mind you.

[DonC]

Ya know, it's a shame no one thought to reduce smog and recycle fourty years ago. Had we done that then all the major cities in the world would already be recycling and we'd be trying to build cars that ran cleaner and used less gas. Or alternate forms of energy. Too bad we never looked in to that. I guess we should think about moving all our shit to Mars because changes like those would take time and happen slowly. But at least people wouldn't panic, like they are now. I'm sure that if we had started to try to reduce smog and waste and look into cleaner cars and energy thirty years ago the people now would be cool about it. They wouldn't want to waste billions of dollars trying to fix things immediately. They'd realize that technology is changing on a daily basis. Cleaner fuels and stuff like that would be getting cheaper and cheaper and eventually everyone would start to use them.

But we didn't. Oh, well. I suggest mass suicide before our air becomes so toxic that we can't even breathe it.

You go first. I'll be right behind you.

Really. Honest.

[J. Robb]

Thanks to the tar sands in Alberta Canada isn't doing much better mind you.
And having Stephen Harper as our representative doesn't help either.

[Serik]

There's nothing stopping you saving the planet in your own way. People are so apathetic, stupid, lazy or a combination thereof that they need governments to do this. You'd think with all the negatives of global climate change, there'd be a more concerted effort to solve the problem. If the shit really does hit the fan and the coasts are flooded and what not, it won't be because we didn't deserve it...

[Nick Soapdish]

Ya know, it's a shame no one thought to reduce smog and recycle fourty years ago. Had we done that then all the major cities in the world would already be recycling and we'd be trying to build cars that ran cleaner and used less gas. Or alternate forms of energy. Too bad we never looked in to that. I guess we should think about moving all our shit to Mars because changes like those would take time and happen slowly. But at least people wouldn't panic, like they are now. I'm sure that if we had started to try to reduce smog and waste and look into cleaner cars and energy thirty years ago the people now would be cool about it. They wouldn't want to waste billions of dollars trying to fix things immediately. They'd realize that technology is changing on a daily basis. Cleaner fuels and stuff like that would be getting cheaper and cheaper and eventually everyone would start to use them.

But we didn't. Oh, well. I suggest mass suicide before our air becomes so toxic that we can't even breathe it.

You go first. I'll be right behind you.

Really. Honest.

And it would've been really cool if ten to fifteen years after that we didn't say nevermind, it's too expensive and reverse course on improving fuel efficiency and argue that it's technologically impossible to improve air quality standards while Japan does it using our own unused technology.

Or if we really did continue looking into alternative fuels rather than just make airy pronouncements.

Or if we didn't discourage recycling by taxing the use of recycled materials to create a good at a higher rate than raw materials.

Or if we remembered that improving the air quality actually saves billions of dollars in health costs and worker productivity instead of deciding that any attempt at change is too fast and that it'll cost more by ignoring the externalities.

But yeah, that's just wishful thinking.

[gary bolt]

A last minute reversal (http://www.iht.com/articles/reuters/2007/12/15/news/OUKWD-UK-BALI-CORRECTED.php)by the Americans allowed this to turn out better than it looked like it would. I'm rather ashamed of Canada's role (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20071215.BALIBAIRD15/TPStory/TPInternational/Asia/) in these negotiations.

Still, agreeing to agree in 2009 feels like too little too late.

[berk]

A last minute reversal (http://www.iht.com/articles/reuters/2007/12/15/news/OUKWD-UK-BALI-CORRECTED.php)[...] I'm rather ashamed of Canada's role (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20071215.BALIBAIRD15/TPStory/TPInternational/Asia/) in these negotiations.[...]
These guys have got to go. Harper and Baird and the rest of these idiots. I echo the sentiments of the NDP guy quoted at the end of the article: "He was invited to a select group of ministers to help the chair of the conference move forward the negotiations, and he doesn't show up," Mr. Guilbeault said. "What does it say about how seriously Mr. Baird is taking those negotiations? I don't think he takes them very seriously. I don't think he's here to help the negotiations come to a successful conclusion."

By leaving the negotiating session in the hands of a bureaucrat, Mr. Baird put Canada at a disadvantage in the talks, since other countries were represented by more senior leaders, Mr. Guilbeault said.

New Democrat MP Nathan Cullen said the episode showed a lack of leadership by Mr. Baird. "It totally contradicts Mr. Baird's claim that he cares about climate change. The Conservatives never wanted a deal here. I'm frustrated that this guy even pretends seriousness or concern."Canadian voters better wake up fast to the cynicism and unspoken agenda of the Harper govt, or we're going to be totally screwed, and not just on climate change.