I need some advise, might have a legal problem

[mortari]

Monday my 25 year old niece "borrowed" my debit card and charged up about $800. Then returned it, I found out about it that night when I balanced my checkbook and reported it immediately to the bank and police.
My bank may have said (this is second hand from my wife and she was not positive). If we press charges we have to wait for the court system to get the money back. If we don't posecute than we get the money back today.
If I had a spare paycheck, it wouldn't matter.
We do want my niece to get as punished for this as possible. She's been doing this kind of stuff since she started seeing her current girlfriend.
My niece has been stealing like this from her grandemother, my mom for about 6-8 months. My mom is on her 2nd credit and debit cards.
My mom is waiting for her bank to get the video footage of the ATM withdrawls and press charges.
There's alot more but you folks should be able to give me some more things to think about.

[Toku King]

Send her to juvinile hall for a few weeks, scare the ever loving shit out of her, and wait for it to sink in.
If that doesn't work, beat her ass.

[Nightstar1441]

Press charges.

Have arrested and taken out in handcuffs in a PUBLIC place (school, work etc)

People like this cannot be talked to or reasoned with.

They need a hard hand.

Disowning would be the next option. (and if she is a minor - that does mean giving her up)

Harsh and cruel...maybe but we are all responsible for our own actions and our own situations. Some people are just not intelligent enough to realize it.

[i_mmmchocolate]

I would keep all credit cards and cash in a safety deposit box.

Make her pay it all back. Does she have a job?

[Donald M.]

Send her to juvinile hall for a few weeks, scare the ever loving shit out of her, and wait for it to sink in.
If that doesn't work, beat her ass.

25 years old.

Seriously, I'm no legal expert, but I'd say your course of action should be based on your needs.

If your wife is correct then, if you need the money back as soon as possible, do you have to in order to get it. Her mother is already pressing charges.

If seeing this woman punished for her actions is more important to you then getting the money back quickly, press away.

Clearly this sounds like a case where only serious consequences will penetrate the wrongdoer's thick skull. Maybe not even that, but one can hope its not too late to show her how disgusting she's being and turn her around.

It sounds like her new friend is a bad influence, but stealing because a friend is pressuring you into it is something a 15 year old does. If you're doing it at 25, some serious immaturity is at issue.

[Agent Helix]

Unless you are in absolute, dire need of that money NOW, press charges.

[Paul McEnery]

If you want to fuck her life forever, press charges.

Nobody ever gets reformed by being sent to jail; and getting a record pretty much ruins you chances of getting a proper job for the rest of your life.

What I want to know is: where are her parents in all of this?

[i_mmmchocolate]

Addendum:

I know exactly where your family is coming from. My sister steals from my parents every so often, sometimes from me (I'll see stuff of mine in her room). Her philosophy is "if it's there, and no one is around to claim it, it's mine." So, if she washes my dad's clothes and finds a $5 or $10, she'll take some of it.

Just recently my dad STUPIDLY gave her his credit card to buy my mom Christmas gifts. We got a call yesterday from the bank saying that there was an unusually high amount of activity this week and that they wanted to notify us. My mom hasn't told me the amount, but from what the items are, I estimate she charged up to $500 in crap, including stuff for herself, like 2 CDs, candles, and t-shirts. And something computer-related.

My sister hasn't had a job in months and honestly doesn't look like she'll get one any time soon. They won't press charges or anything, they just hope she'll change her ways. That won't happen until she moves out of the house, IMO.

I feel terrible for saying this, but I've told her many times, that the only way she'll learn to break this habit is if she lived with a roommate steals her shit.

[i_mmmchocolate]

If you want to fuck her life forever, press charges.
I agree; I think having her repay it all is the better route to take.

[mortari]

I would keep all credit cards and cash in a safety deposit box.

Make her pay it all back. Does she have a job?

She hasn't worked in years. Her girlfriend showed her how to get on Welfare though.
By the way she has 7 year old son. No father for the boy. My mom is looking into taking custody of the son.

[LtMarvel]

Talk with your bank and make sure of the options.

Also, feel lucky that the bank is willing to cover your charges... They do not have to do that with a debit card.

You are only liable for $50/card for credit cards misused in this manner.

Get a new PIN number, both of you. (I don't know if you can use your debit card without a PIN at stores/gas stations...)

[Dr. Hfuhruhurr]

I guess I'm not understanding why you would get the money back immediately if you don't press charges, but have to wait for the court system if you do press charges.

In any event, depending on your needs, I agree with those that say press charges. If your niece has been stealing from your mother, and you can prove it, it may qualify as elder abuse as well (depending on your state laws). When you report it to the police, try to get together all of your documentation, if you have any, to show that your niece has been stealing from your mother.

[Donald M.]

She hasn't worked in years. Her girlfriend showed her how to get on Welfare though.
By the way she has 7 year old son. No father for the boy. My mom is looking into taking custody of the son.

Sounds like a winner.

What others have said about pressing charges possibly screwing up someone's life makes sense to me, but you said her mother was already pressing charges so at this point, I'd say it really does come down to whether or not you want/need the money back as quickly as possible.

[Dr. Hfuhruhurr]

If you want to fuck her life forever, press charges.

Nobody ever gets reformed by being sent to jail; and getting a record pretty much ruins you chances of getting a proper job for the rest of your life.

What I want to know is: where are her parents in all of this?

I disagree. Depending on the amounts, most states have first offender programs that allow people to either dismiss the case prior to conviction or expunge the conviction afterward if certain conditions are met, i.e. restitution, community service, etc.

People may not get reformed by being sent to jail, but they sure as hell don't get reformed if there are no consequences for their actions.

[i_mmmchocolate]

She hasn't worked in years. Her girlfriend showed her how to get on Welfare though.
By the way she has 7 year old son. No father for the boy. My mom is looking into taking custody of the son.
Shitty situation. I hope that you guys get your money back.

[mortari]

Tomorrow we talk to my Mom's bank and see if we have video proof of what she did. W-Mart and K-mart are not being very helpful and we may not get proof from them.

My fault for trusting her at the house alone. In my defense the card just showed up in the mail and I hadn't even had a chance to activate it yet.

She did however. Or her girlfriend.

[Paul McEnery]

Tomorrow we talk to my Mom's bank and see if we have video proof of what she did. W-Mart and K-mart are not being very helpful and we may not get proof from them.

My fault for trusting her at the house alone. In my defense the card just showed up in the mail and I hadn't even had a chance to activate it yet.

She did however. Or her girlfriend.

I'm still wondering where her parents fit in on this.

Or where she fits in with your family.

Both of these seem like important questions.

Also, if the girlfriend is such a disaster, why she's being made welcome.

Also: niece on your side, or on the wife's?

[mortari]

I'm still wondering where her parents fit in on this.

Or where she fits in with your family.

Both of these seem like important questions.

Also, if the girlfriend is such a disaster, why she's being made welcome.

Also: niece on your side, or on the wife's?

My niece, her mom is my older sister, just moved to Florida last month. She never knew her dad.
Her mom and step dad threw her out 7 years ago when she had her first child.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Its sad that someone would steal from their own grandmother. But she needs to be taught a lesson . Even if its a harsh one.

[Paul McEnery]

Its sad that someone would steal from their own grandmother. But she needs to be taught a lesson . Even if its a harsh one.

My niece, her mom is my older sister, just moved to Florida last month. She never knew her dad.
Her mom and step dad threw her out 7 years ago when she had her first child.

See, that's what I was guessing. She's already been taught a harsh lesson, and this is the consequence.

I mean, I'm just whistling Dixie here, but it sounds like your side of the family took her in when her own mother disowned her. Which leads me to some unpleasant thoughts there, not least about the stepfather.

And the leading unpleasant thought there is that the niece was looking to recover love and acceptance in the dumb way that 16-17 year-olds do; have sex, get child, everything bettter. Oops, no it isn't. In fact, everything a whole helluva lot worse.

Because that's a heap of vicious, punishing moralism her own mother laid on her. So I'm not seeing that punishing moralism is going to do a damn thing but drive her further into vindictive irresponsibility.

And here's another thing she's doing. This isn't just stealing for self-gratification -- though that side of it is easy to understand -- it's a testing behaviour, and a repeat behaviour. I'm going to do this thing that calls down punishment and morality on my head, and then I'll know that I'm a bad person, and I deserve all the shit that's come down on me.

Because the alternative to that is far worse: that it wasn't deserved, that her own mother rejected her because her mother is bad, that it's all been a terrible injustice and she's powerless against it.

I mean, I don't know. You've lived with this for seven years. You know the situation better. But it sounds to me like a bad situation that's been allowed to get out of hand. I hope it hasn't gotten so bad you've got no choice to bring in the authorities; I hope this is something you can take care of as loving members of her family.

And I'm thinking this is going to be a long road with a ton of counselling involved, and some very tough boundary setting and self-examination. Or, you know, you can just toss her overboard like everyone else has.

[Michael P]

See, that's what I was guessing. She's already been taught a harsh lesson, and this is the consequence.


It doesn't appear that the lesson has sunk in.

[morna]

I feel in my heart that you're right Paul. Too bad she got to 25 and is still pulling this shit. I think making her pay back everything she stole would be a better deterrent than throwing her in jail.

[mortari]

You see what I want to see is her admit she's doing this stuff. She's been confronted with it and denies it.
She won't admit it me or her grandmother.

[Paul McEnery]

It doesn't appear that the lesson has sunk in.

Au contraire.

The lesson that has sunk in is that she's a bad person who deserves nothing but bad in her life; including an abusive partner, by the sound of it (who's no doubt another kid with similar issues).

And that's pretty much the only lesson anyone ever learns from punishment.

[mortari]

The GF is a real winner. Talked my niece in moving out on mom on Christmas Eve last year, while she was at work.
Then kicked her out a week later.
Then Talked her into moving into Chicago Said there was job lined up and everything
We get a panic call about a month later, Chicago became Moline no job and she's being kicked out, cost us about $500 to get her home from that one.
Now she's living with the same GF, and everything will be better because it's true love. (except she doesn't like my son so much can he stay here)
ARRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh

My wife doesn't have my patience about these things though.

[Deathstroke]

If you need the money immediately, I'd say forgo pressing charges. Only to help YOUR financial situation.

Then disown her. Period.

Don't do this stupid shit where you try to help her out of her self created messes.

People who steal from you deserve no less.

If you don't need the money, then press charges and have her arrested in as public a place as possible. Then disown her. Publically.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

The GF is a real winner. Talked my niece in moving out on mom on Christmas Eve last year, while she was at work.
Then kicked her out a week later.
Then Talked her into moving into Chicago Said there was job lined up and everything
We get a panic call about a month later, Chicago became Moline no job and she's being kicked out, cost us about $500 to get her home from that one.
Now she's living with the same GF, and everything will be better because it's true love. (except she doesn't like my son so much can he stay here)
ARRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh

My wife doesn't have my patience about these things though.

She seems to as Paul put it...want someone to love her. And thats the saddest thing to take all that abuse.

[mortari]

If you need the money immediately, I'd say forgo pressing charges. Only to help YOUR financial situation.

Then disown her. Period.

Don't do this stupid shit where you try to help her out of her self created messes.

People who steal from you deserve no less.

If you don't need the money, then press charges and have her arrested in as public a place as possible. Then disown her. Publically.

So Far we're leaning towards this one.

[Paul McEnery]

The GF is a real winner. Talked my niece in moving out on mom on Christmas Eve last year, while she was at work.
Then kicked her out a week later.
Then Talked her into moving into Chicago Said there was job lined up and everything
We get a panic call about a month later, Chicago became Moline no job and she's being kicked out, cost us about $500 to get her home from that one.
Now she's living with the same GF, and everything will be better because it's true love. (except she doesn't like my son so much can he stay here)
ARRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh

My wife doesn't have my patience about these things though.

Yikes.

Yeah, your niece is in real trouble here, and I don't know what to tell you, except that she needs major counselling help.

And the GF needs punching repeatedly in the head.

I'm still inclined to view the stealing as cry for help material. And I'm beginning to wonder if bringing the cops into it mightn't be the right move after all. Yuck.

I think there's two things to keep clear in your mind. One is that, as much as you want to do the loving thing, maintaining your own boundaries is actually part of doing that loving thing. The other is the stuff the girl is missing.

She's missing love, structure, self-respect, a sense of her own power, and I dare say that having the kid is making her feel like she missed her own youth and her own chance. On top of that, she did "the right thing" by having the kid, and look what it cost her. Horrible. It's almost inevitable that something's gotta give, and she's got to act out. (And obviously there's the reason she's not going to fess up to anything; doing "the right thing" is a disaster!)

So yeah, most important thing is to get her to help. If Dr. Puffnstuff is right -- and I'd want to be real sure that that's right in your neck of the woods -- then going the cop route might well force the issue the way you want it to. Ricky business, though.

[Jeff Brady]

(I don't know if you can use your debit card without a PIN at stores/gas stations...)

Most debit cards double as a credit card, so all you have to do is sign.

[Sabrina_Fried]

Most debit cards double as a credit card, so all you have to do is sign.

Only if you activate the debit option on your credit card. I never did this for exactly this reason. Have your bank seperate the credit card from the debit card, and change the PIN on your debit card.

Really bad situation though. My thoughts: Treat the money like a loan. Make them pay the money back, with interest. It might be the only way they will ever learn the lesson.

If they refuse to pay back the money willingly, press charges.

Sabrina

[Dan Apodaca]

People may not get reformed by being sent to jail, but they sure as hell don't get reformed if there are no consequences for their actions.

I think it's too big a jump to say that not going to jail = no consequences. I'd say the best course of action is to sue her for the money, and cut her off from the family. Or their part of it, at least. Show her what happens when you burn bridges.

[Michael P]

Only if you activate the debit option on your credit card.

I don't have a credit card, but I can use my debit card as a credit card at places that aren't equipped to take debit cards. They just give me a slip to sign. I never had to activate anything.

[Dan Apodaca]

I have to say, I'm disgusted at the lack of compassion in this thread. Lots of people are quick to write someone off completely.

When I was 18, I moved out for the first time, and shared a house with a couple friends. After a few months, I had been laid off, and was enjoying the free life too much to settle into another job. Rent was due, though, and I couldn't bear the shame of admitting to my parents that I had failed as an adult. I stole $500 from my parents. They noticed immediately, of course, and called me back home to bust me. Now, my parents could have done a lot of things in response. They could have pressed charges, or sent me to boot camp, or any number of other things.

But my parents talked to me and could see that it wasn't an act of malice, it was one of desperation. I'm eternally grateful to them for being so kind to me about it. My punishment was that I had to have a job in the next three weeks, I had to do LOTS of work around the house, and I had to pay the money back. I did it all, and I firmly learned the lesson not to screw people who trust me, no matter what the motivation.

I've never met your niece, of course, but I feel that if the compassion showed to me when I was 18 could be showed to her, she might have a shot at redeeming herself.

[Michael P]

I have to say, I'm disgusted at the lack of compassion in this thread. Lots of people are quick to write someone off completely.

Getting fucked out of $800 can do that to people.

Although it occurs to me we've not asked a very important question: What did she spend the $800 on?

[Dan Apodaca]

Getting fucked out of $800 can do that to people.

I think you mean "Reading on the internet about someone else getting fucked out of $800..." Mortari has been very reasonable this whole time. It's the responses that get merciless and harsh.

[Paul McEnery]

I think you mean "Reading on the internet about someone else getting fucked out of $800..." Mortari has been very reasonable this whole time. It's the responses that get merciless and harsh.

Yup. Weird, isn't it.

[Jade_GL]

I disagree. Depending on the amounts, most states have first offender programs that allow people to either dismiss the case prior to conviction or expunge the conviction afterward if certain conditions are met, i.e. restitution, community service, etc.

People may not get reformed by being sent to jail, but they sure as hell don't get reformed if there are no consequences for their actions.

I work at a court house. My job involves the criminal cases, mostly small time stuff. Misdemeanors and whatnot.

Where I live (and each state is different) depending on your history and what you will agree to for a plea, you can get off without it becoming a permanent mark. For theft I see cases that go to what is called a deferred disposition, which means that the person has to remain clean for a certain set of time and also may have to pay restitution or do some other form of service. If they do, they can have their plea withdrawn and the DA will dismiss the case.

Also, some will dismiss the case outright if they do something beforehand, like pay the person back and show proof and the victim is amenable to that.

Bringing charges does not necessarily mean a lifelong black mark, especially if the woman gets some sense knocked into her by having to go in front of a real judge and DA. Of course, this would mean that she would have to accept full responsibility and work to make things right.

I'm certainly not saying to do that. Not all DAs or judges are alike, so your mileage may vary in your neck of the woods. I would weigh everything carefully and just do what you think is right.

Also, there is always small claims actions. You can file a case and bring them to court for the money. They would have to pay for whatever you can prove they took from you, plus court costs. This also varies from state to state, so if you are considering that option, call your local court house or go to their clerks office and pick up the paper work and directions. It should be free initially, but may include some small fee if there are court sealed documents (summons, etc) included.

Just so you know, I understand your plight. A family member of mine is a criminal (was caught for embezzling money from an employer and was convicted of the criminal charge) and it's hard to write off someone who is your family. I wish you the best of luck and hope that you come through it okay.

[Joe Franklin]

She hasn't worked in years. Her girlfriend showed her how to get on Welfare though.
By the way she has 7 year old son. No father for the boy. My mom is looking into taking custody of the son.

Can I have her phone number?:D

[mortari]

Getting fucked out of $800 can do that to people.

Although it occurs to me we've not asked a very important question: What did she spend the $800 on?

I curious myself, but the big Mart's won't talk to us. They can't tell me my card was used for they will only talk to the police.

Meanwhile for now, the bank has been a great help at getting the cards replaced and the money reimbursed.

So financially I'm not responsible for what happened.

So why do I feel guilty? Reminds me of one of my favorite quotes. "There's something to be said about family, it has to said...it's unprintable"

[Paul McEnery]

I curious myself, but the big Mart's won't talk to us. They can't tell me my card was used for they will only talk to the police.
"

I'm not surprised, because obviously they didn't do the due dilegence of checking the ID of the cardholder, which makes THEM liable.

I'm thinking it's very much time for a heart to heart with the niece by whoever's the closest to her -- you, I guess; bad luck for her, because it sounds like you've reached the end of your tether, too.

But anyway, my way of approaching it would be: "look, we love you, but either you or your girlfriend made of with the card; and the same thing happened over at mom's place; and we're not going to leave ourselves vulnerable to this kind of shit any more; so you've got some choices to make here. And just because we haven't pressed charges yet doesn't mean we're not gonig to, so you'd better think real hard about those choices. Because damn if I'm seeing you and the kid go down the toilet for this abusive bitch, but damn if I'm going to let you drag us down the toilet with you either. So, what you want to do about this thing?"

Lotsa luck!



And don't forget you've got Dad Card #8 in your pocket on this one: What Would You Do If You Were In My Position?

But don't play it until you're really mad, because it always makes matters worse. :D

[Paradox]

Toku King has it:

Send her to juvinile hall for a few weeks, scare the ever loving shit out of her, and wait for it to sink in.
If that doesn't work, beat her ass.

That one (except, of course, real jail as she's not a juvenile). There actually is a good chance it'll straighten her act out. Do the crime, do the time, baby. Responsibility for your actions is a learned behavior.

[Typo Lad]

I'm not surprised, because obviously they didn't do the due dilegence of checking the ID of the cardholder, which makes THEM liable.

I've yet to see a store actually do this. They don't even look at the slips to see if the signature is anything resembling handwriting.

[Paradox]

The only time I ask for ID is when the user has put "Ask for ID" in place of the signature. I'm not sure vendors are even required to ask for ID. It's commonplace for someone to use someone else's card when shopping, and I've never seen anyone even questioned. I do, if it's not their name, but beyond "Oh, that's my girlfriends card. She's out in the car." I don't pry. If I was in charge of the system, I'd require it for each and every purchase. But, alas, I am not.

This is why, if you notice it missing, you're supposed to cancel it immediately. Old pal got his wallet stolen from his car, called the card company and they nabbed the thieves about 50 miles away buying tires within an hour of his call.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

The only time I ask for ID is when the user has put "Ask for ID" in place of the signature. I'm not sure vendors are even required to ask for ID. It's commonplace for someone to use someone else's card when shopping, and I've never seen anyone even questioned. I do, if it's not their name, but beyond "Oh, that's my girlfriends card. She's out in the car." I don't pry. If I was in charge of the system, I'd require it for each and every purchase. But, alas, I am not.

This is why, if you notice it missing, you're supposed to cancel it immediately. Old pal got his wallet stolen from his car, called the card company and they nabbed the thieves about 50 miles away buying tires within an hour of his call.

Had a Bank/debit card as well. My wallet was stolen and the next morning I called the bank and came in. The Bank president told me they would leave the card active (with me not liable) and wanted the criminal or criminals to spend over a certain amount so they could file charges.

My account was changed...

[GozertheGozarian]

The only time I ask for ID is when the user has put "Ask for ID" in place of the signature. I'm not sure vendors are even required to ask for ID. It's commonplace for someone to use someone else's card when shopping, and I've never seen anyone even questioned. I do, if it's not their name, but beyond "Oh, that's my girlfriends card. She's out in the car." I don't pry. If I was in charge of the system, I'd require it for each and every purchase. But, alas, I am not.

This is why, if you notice it missing, you're supposed to cancel it immediately. Old pal got his wallet stolen from his car, called the card company and they nabbed the thieves about 50 miles away buying tires within an hour of his call.
Can't be as much fun as the Diamond Shamrock I worked at. We checked ID for any credit card purchase that we didn't think was the legit holder (buyer opposite sex of card name, card is from regular and buyer isn't kind of thing). Policy was to call the person named on the card for permission to use the credit card.

[Paradox]

GozertheGozarian worked it:

Can't be as much fun as the Diamond Shamrock I worked at. We checked ID for any credit card purchase that we didn't think was the legit holder (buyer opposite sex of card name, card is from regular and buyer isn't kind of thing). Policy was to call the person named on the card for permission to use the credit card.

See, I would have no problem with those kinds of policies, especially with the increase in identity theft. But, no, we can't slightly inconvenience stupid America. These are folks that willingly allow the phone company to change their long distance service without their expressed permission so they don't have to be bothered. :mad:

[K'Nort]

I have to say, I'm disgusted at the lack of compassion in this thread. Lots of people are quick to write someone off completely.

When I was 18, I moved out for the first time, and shared a house with a couple friends. After a few months, I had been laid off, and was enjoying the free life too much to settle into another job. Rent was due, though, and I couldn't bear the shame of admitting to my parents that I had failed as an adult. I stole $500 from my parents. They noticed immediately, of course, and called me back home to bust me. Now, my parents could have done a lot of things in response. They could have pressed charges, or sent me to boot camp, or any number of other things.

But my parents talked to me and could see that it wasn't an act of malice, it was one of desperation. I'm eternally grateful to them for being so kind to me about it. My punishment was that I had to have a job in the next three weeks, I had to do LOTS of work around the house, and I had to pay the money back. I did it all, and I firmly learned the lesson not to screw people who trust me, no matter what the motivation.

I've never met your niece, of course, but I feel that if the compassion showed to me when I was 18 could be showed to her, she might have a shot at redeeming herself.

There are some differences in your situation, though. (Not that I'm booing compassion. There is obviously way too much going on in this situation to judge it.) You were 18, not 25. You did it once, not repeatedly. You owned up to it when confronted instead of denying it.

You earned more compassion.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

I think you mean "Reading on the internet about someone else getting fucked out of $800..." Mortari has been very reasonable this whole time. It's the responses that get merciless and harsh.

Presumably he wanted the opinion of people who aren't emotionally involved in the case, to make sure he wasn't being a jerk in the situation.

[mortari]

Presumably he wanted the opinion of people who aren't emotionally involved in the case, to make sure he wasn't being a jerk in the situation.

Thanks guys, you're helping the right words.

[hyzmarca]

See, that's what I was guessing. She's already been taught a harsh lesson, and this is the consequence.

I mean, I'm just whistling Dixie here, but it sounds like your side of the family took her in when her own mother disowned her. Which leads me to some unpleasant thoughts there, not least about the stepfather.

And the leading unpleasant thought there is that the niece was looking to recover love and acceptance in the dumb way that 16-17 year-olds do; have sex, get child, everything bettter. Oops, no it isn't. In fact, everything a whole helluva lot worse.


Given that the father remains unidentified and she is, apparently, a lesbian, I'd put my money on her being raped or abused by someone she trusted. Has the setpfather taken a paternity test? He is the most likely suspect.

From the information given, she seems rather directionless. She doesn't have anything better to do than to follow this girlfriend to Chicago.
Does she have any college degrees or even college credits? If not, take her by the hand to the local state college, have her sign up for classes and for financial aid. If so, take her by the hand to the local unemployment office and have them find a job for her.

It sounds like she needs some sort of direction in her life and could benefit from reasonably achievable short-term life-goals (such as obtaining a degree). The most difficult part of doing anything is getting off your ass and actually starting. She has that girlfriend to poke and prod her until she gets off her ass and does the wrong thing. She needs someone who will poke and prod her (in a nice nonviolent manner) until she gets off her ass and does the right thing.

[mortari]

a few years ago she was taking college cources to be a teacher.

Last night she may tried breaking into my mom's apartment.
Not getting any better.

[Paul McEnery]

a few years ago she was taking college cources to be a teacher.

Last night she may tried breaking into my mom's apartment.
Not getting any better.

I didn't want to just yell the abuse word, but if I were counselling this woman, that's one of the things I'd be looking out for, yes. Something really smells rotten about her situation, but you know, this is just a bulletin board and all that.

Yeah, she badly needs help and intervention. I'm not a fan of "scared straight" interventions, but you've still got that in your back pocket if you need it.

What she needs is clear, loving confrontation (if you've still got it in you; I'd completely understand if you don't). But yes, she's going to up the ante, while being egged on by the GF -- clearly the GF's got issues, and she's found a way to act them out at someone else's expense; your niece's expense, your family's expense.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Last night she may tried breaking into my mom's apartment.
Not getting any better.

So she tried to steal more after all ready being busted on the credit card?

Unless she's got a habit of some kind, or is being extorted then it's probably not about the money but something else.

[mortari]

It really feels like an attention grab to me, but when confronted she still denies everything.
If my mom wasn't feeling so upset, and if the 7 year old wasn't part of the equation, we'd just stop dealing with her altogether.

[Paul McEnery]

It really feels like an attention grab to me, but when confronted she still denies everything.
If my mom wasn't feeling so upset, and if the 7 year old wasn't part of the equation, we'd just stop dealing with her altogether.

Going out on a limb about a million miles:

To me, this kind of confirms the abuse theory. It's like a recapitulation: here's some abusive behaviour that violates the trust in the family; no, I'm not admitting to anything; I'm going to make someone else bear the burden of this for once. That's what I imagine the unconscious thinking is, the feelings that drive this whole episode.

I mean, I've got no idea, total shot in the dark. In any case, this is typical "scapegoat child" acting out. Some sort of abuse has definitely happened -- even if it's just psychological, because there's no such thing as "just" psychological. The extent of the acting out is what makes me think it might have been pretty bad -- not that the GF is helping any.

It's almost as if she wants to push things to a total crisis -- in front of a judge, even. Partly it's just to break the tension she's feeling -- I feel crushed by my life, I've got to do something, even if it's dumb. But I'm feeling a bass-ackwards drive towards "The Truth", whatever her The Truth is.

One way or another, there's a powerful hidden agenda here that needs to play itself out.

[mortari]

Police will have access to the Walmart video on Monday, but won't be in the office to look at it until next Friday.

And she called last night, she had to watch her son last night and wanted us to take him for the night. We both leave for early pre-7am and he goes to school in a differnt town than we live in.

she did end up talking my Mom into taking him back for the night. Only problem there is my mom works 3rd shift as an RN at a Nursing home so she has to take him to work with her.

1 more week

[mortari]

We got to see the photo's from the video survallance tapes today.

It looks like my mom may need us to babysit again.

[Zero Hunter]

I think the best thing you could do is get her kid away from her. If that means pressing charges so your mom can get custody then that is what has to happen. I would flat out tell her as long as she is with the current GF then she is not welcome either.

And I am sorry but acting out like this does not cut it at her age. i could buy Paul's arguement if she was still late teens or so, but she is grown women with a kid of her own now. She needs to grow the hell up.

[Michael P]

You guys really need to stop enabling her parental irresponsibility.

[mortari]

She'll be in front of the judge in about 1/2 hour.
She was arrested yesterday, when she went to court for another shoplifting charge that we didn't know about before.
That make Jewel, kmart, her grandmother and us.
That we know of
and she was playing the poor, poor me card when they took her in.

at least we haven't had to explain this to her son yet. Not sure what I do then

[Sir Tim Drake]

She'll be in front of the judge in about 1/2 hour.
She was arrested yesterday, when she went to court for another shoplifting charge that we didn't know about before.
That make Jewel, kmart, her grandmother and us.
That we know of
and she was playing the poor, poor me card when they took her in.

at least we haven't had to explain this to her son yet. Not sure what I do then

I'm sorry to hear that. I hope this experience will help convince her to change her criminal ways.

[BoosterBronze]

She'll be in front of the judge in about 1/2 hour.
She was arrested yesterday, when she went to court for another shoplifting charge that we didn't know about before.
That make Jewel, kmart, her grandmother and us.
That we know of
and she was playing the poor, poor me card when they took her in.

at least we haven't had to explain this to her son yet. Not sure what I do then

Do what my dad did when my brother got arrested (I was six, he was 17).

Show the lad his mom in the hoosegow, and say to him, "That looks pretty terrible. I bet you never want to end up there."