Punisher War Journal #14 *Spoilers*

[drwho]

Over all this story is pretty weird, but weird in a good way. The art is good and it really translates well on the animal based characters. Although the Punisher looks drawn awful I'm willing to look pass that. This issue basically show more things that are going down in the animal villain zoo. It is very entertaining seeing the Rhino and Vulture interact. The Punisher finds the zoo and Kraven lets all the drugged out villains free in the boat. The issue ends showing the Punisher chained with Tiger Shark about to attack.

[Pach!]

I thought the whole Rhino eating Aragorn was well drawn, plotted. It is a weird story. I like it. I hope they don't kill Bushmaster though.

[worstblogever]

Is this Aloysha Kravinov, or the Grim Hunter? Because he's acting more like the Grim Hunter, isn't he?

[drwho]

Is this Aloysha Kravinov, or the Grim Hunter? Because he's acting more like the Grim Hunter, isn't he?

I think this is supposed to be the one from the get kraven mini. There have been so many Kraven kids I have no idea who this one is.

[FearEmbodied]

Is this Aloysha Kravinov, or the Grim Hunter? Because he's acting more like the Grim Hunter, isn't he?

It's Alyosha. He's just gone nuts or something, I guess.

[worstblogever]

It's Alyosha. He's just gone nuts or something, I guess.

If by nuts, you mean acting just like his crazy brother and completely out of character for himself... yeah. I read Get Kraven, and Beyond! I'm wondering if Matt Fraction did.

[FearEmbodied]

If by nuts, you mean acting just like his crazy brother and completely out of character for himself... yeah. I read Get Kraven, and Beyond! I'm wondering if Matt Fraction did.

Well, something must have happened to him away from the panels that made his brain go kaput. Maybe he's addicted to that juicy African junk of his and it's making him go all batty?

[The Cool Thatguy]

Well, something must have happened to him away from the panels that made his brain go kaput. Maybe he's addicted to that juicy African junk of his and it's making him go all batty?

IIRC, Kraven's on his dad's juice which has whacked him out.

[Monty_Cristo]

IIRC, Kraven's on his dad's juice which has whacked him out.

i thought he was a mutant?

[Blader5489]

Is this Aloysha Kravinov, or the Grim Hunter? Because he's acting more like the Grim Hunter, isn't he?

The Grim Hunter was killed a long time ago.

[worstblogever]

i thought he was a mutant?

Aloysha is, and has been. He hasn't been "weasing the juice" that his dad made, and kind of prided himself on not being a part of the legacy of the hunter.

Maybe it's the Chameleon, and he's thinking he's Kraven again? Or the Grim Hunter?

[The Cool Thatguy]

Aloysha is, and has been. He hasn't been "weasing the juice" that his dad made, and kind of prided himself on not being a part of the legacy of the hunter.

Maybe it's the Chameleon, and he's thinking he's Kraven again? Or the Grim Hunter?

It's Aloysha. I remember Fraction stating in an interview about the arc that he was taking his daddy's juice again. And really, why would Aloysha pride himself on distancing himself from his father when it's because of his dad that he targetted Spider-Man?

I'm amazed anyone can blame writers for actually ignoring that terrible story, Get Kraven. Not that this one seems all that great, but it's not half as bad.

[Monty_Cristo]

It's Aloysha. I remember Fraction stating in an interview about the arc that he was taking his daddy's juice again. And really, why would Aloysha pride himself on distancing himself from his father when it's because of his dad that he targetted Spider-Man?

I'm amazed anyone can blame writers for actually ignoring that terrible story, Get Kraven. Not that this one seems all that great, but it's not half as bad.

uh, the point was that he doesn't need the serum because he's already a mutant (w/ those same abilities). :)

[Alan2099]

Al Kraven, when he first appeared was more crazed than his father had ever been. Later apperances made him a bit more civilized, but still very very similiar to his father, but a bit less smart and a bit more brutal.

Then, out of nowhere, he became "AL Kraven" a very civilized uppercrust character that i really hate. No explination was given for his personality shift.

Now he just seemd much more back to his nature. I'm glad that Al Kraven stuff is getting ignored.

[drwho]

Is the original Kraven still dead, or did they bring him back, too?

[The Cool Thatguy]

uh, the point was that he doesn't need the serum because he's already a mutant (w/ those same abilities). :)

Really strong wrestlers take steroids to get even stronger. This isn't all that different.

[Madison Carter]

In one of his first appearances, Alyosha was riding bull-elephants across rooftops. Yeah, he was bat**** insane from the word go.

[worstblogever]

Really strong wrestlers take steroids to get even stronger. This isn't all that different.

But he had no background in "herbal remedies" i.e. black magic potions. This is a big alteration with no buildup, if it is Aloysha.

[The Cool Thatguy]

But he had no background in "herbal remedies" i.e. black magic potions. This is a big alteration with no buildup, if it is Aloysha.

Only if you go by 'Get Kraven' and it's followup in 'Beyond' and that alone. Rest of the time, this Kraven's been an utter wackjob.

[Monty_Cristo]

Only if you go by 'Get Kraven' and it's followup in 'Beyond' and that alone. Rest of the time, this Kraven's been an utter wackjob.

that's like showing Tony Stark aboard the SHIELD Helicarrier recharging his heart battery with your standard power chord. sure, it happened in the past. but, since then, he's changed/grown.

[FrogMan]

So, is Frog-Man in this issue, or did they forget about him?

[Tobias Drake]

He's in the Initiative. A bit high-profile.

I'm wondering where Walrus-Man is. :p

[FrogMan]

I know he's in the Initiative, but he was also in Punisher War Journal #13 on the last page. So I was wondering if he'd showed up this issue.

[worstblogever]

that's like showing Tony Stark aboard the SHIELD Helicarrier recharging his heart battery with your standard power chord. sure, it happened in the past. but, since then, he's changed/grown.

Yeah, I'm praying Frank kills this Kraven, and it's a Skrull with outdated intel.

[StoneGold]

For whatever it's worth, the characters seem to realize Al is acting whacko. Spidey's response to Al showing up all wackadoo was something to the equivalent of "Al, what the hell?"

[Scott Wegener]

I know he's in the Initiative, but he was also in Punisher War Journal #13 on the last page. So I was wondering if he'd showed up this issue.

I put him in a background panel somewhere in #14.

He gets his own "Apocalypse Now" scene in #15. Well, sort of . . .

[Pach!]

I put him in a background panel somewhere in #14.

He gets his own "Apocalypse Now" scene in #15. Well, sort of . . .

Your art was great by the way. I hope Marvel gives you more work, I really loved the Rhino eating Aragorn part, the expressions were perfect.

[PunisherFan]

I can't beleive with how good this issue was everyone here is asking questions about the Kravens... it is real simple. 1) Original Kraven comitted suicide 2) Grim Hunter was killed by Kaine 3) Al Kraven was originally a psycho when made by Dematteis. I mean he slept with Calypso pretending to be the original and then killed her later on after gaining her trust...just awesome. He became Al Kraven when someone wrote that Get Kraven series... which sucked (it was originally supposed to be like 7 or 8 issues but sold so badly they cut it to 5 or 6) So Al Kraven is back to his original crazy self. I like him this was and want to see him as a re-curring foe. I do wanna see The Punisher kill off some of these super-villains. I mean thats what this whole series is about and he hasn't killed a legit super-villain since civil-war.... and Aragorn was the first "real" character killed off in this series since that time. I'd like to see Castle take out Kangaroo and Rhino in the next one, as well as Tiger Shark

[drwho]

I dont expect Aragon to stay dead. Wasnt he the Black Knight's horse? The Black Knight won't be back with out his horse. Sorry.

[Monty_Cristo]

I dont expect Aragon to stay dead. Wasnt he the Black Knight's horse? The Black Knight won't be back with out his horse. Sorry.

Dane has Strider. Aragorn was Valkyrie's horse, right?

I can't beleive with how good this issue was everyone here is asking questions about the Kravens... it is real simple. 1) Original Kraven comitted suicide 2) Grim Hunter was killed by Kaine 3) Al Kraven was originally a psycho when made by Dematteis. I mean he slept with Calypso pretending to be the original and then killed her later on after gaining her trust...just awesome. He became Al Kraven when someone wrote that Get Kraven series... which sucked (it was originally supposed to be like 7 or 8 issues but sold so badly they cut it to 5 or 6) So Al Kraven is back to his original crazy self. I like him this was and want to see him as a re-curring foe. I do wanna see The Punisher kill off some of these super-villains. I mean thats what this whole series is about and he hasn't killed a legit super-villain since civil-war.... and Aragorn was the first "real" character killed off in this series since that time. I'd like to see Castle take out Kangaroo and Rhino in the next one, as well as Tiger Shark

your discounting BEYOND.

[vitruvian]

Dane has Strider. Aragorn was Valkyrie's horse, right?

Strider is Dane's second horse; Aragorn was Dane's originally until he was given to Valkyrie. Not sure if the Samantha Parrington Valkyrie still had custody of him, but either she or Brunhilde will probably be more than willing to carve Kraven up into small pieces if that was really their Aragorn.

[StoneGold]

your discounting BEYOND.

Except the book isn't. Read 13 again, Spidey and Rhino are shocked by his behavior.

[FrogMan]

Frog-Man gets his own "Apocalypse Now" scene in #15? Anyone have any idea what that means? I haven't seen that movie in ages.

[Monty_Cristo]

Except the book isn't. Read 13 again, Spidey and Rhino are shocked by his behavior.

if he started out crazy, like people have been saying throughout this thread, then why would Spider-man be shocked?

[Scott Wegener]

Andres -thanks man! :) You should check out Atomic Robo if you liked this.

It was a really fun story to work on. Fraction is bananas!

Glad some of you liked it. Sorry that some of you didn't. But fear not, I only did two issues, haha.


Frog-Man gets his own "Apocalypse Now" scene in #15? Anyone have any idea what that means? I haven't seen that movie in ages.

You'll just have to squirm with anticipation for a few weeks :D

[FrogMan]

I am squirming. LOL

By the way, how come you drew Froggy in his old costume? He has a new one in Avengers: The Initiative#7. Does this issue take place before that issue?

[Scott Wegener]

I am squirming. LOL

By the way, how come you drew Froggy in his old costume? He has a new one in Avengers: The Initiative#7. Does this issue take place before that issue?


Hey man I just do what I'm told! LOL

Seriously, I have no idea. I used the reference I was given. There were more than one Frogman as I recall -they were like semi-retarded commandos from back in the day. Old tyme Spider Man stuff.

I don't think the Frogman in the Initiative (which I'm not really familiar with) is the same guy(s).

Mostly I was just overwhelmed with all the fun D-list super villains they handed to me and said "Here put these dudes in the background when you can".

I might be forgetting some, but we see Swarm, The Dragon, Gargoyle, a really bad Mongoose (because i suck), Bushmaster, Kangaroo, Frogman, Grizzly, Manbull, and some others I'm probably forgetting. Obviously Tigershark, Rhino, and Vulture also. And God help me, Mandrill. A baboon in a puffy pirate shirt and a cape.

Comic book drugs were much better in the 60's and 70's LOL

[Weapon Ick]

Hey man I just do what I'm told! LOL

Seriously, I have no idea. I used the reference I was given. There were more than one Frogman as I recall -they were like semi-retarded commandos from back in the day. Old tyme Spider Man stuff.

I don't think the Frogman in the Initiative (which I'm not really familiar with) is the same guy(s).


I wonder if you're thinking about Toad Men which are different from Frog Man.

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/2274/shehulkv202pic1bd2.gif (http://imageshack.us)

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/189/thetoadmentc6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[PunisherFan]

Hey man I just do what I'm told! LOL

Seriously, I have no idea. I used the reference I was given. There were more than one Frogman as I recall -they were like semi-retarded commandos from back in the day. Old tyme Spider Man stuff.

I don't think the Frogman in the Initiative (which I'm not really familiar with) is the same guy(s).

Mostly I was just overwhelmed with all the fun D-list super villains they handed to me and said "Here put these dudes in the background when you can".

I might be forgetting some, but we see Swarm, The Dragon, Gargoyle, a really bad Mongoose (because i suck), Bushmaster, Kangaroo, Frogman, Grizzly, Manbull, and some others I'm probably forgetting. Obviously Tigershark, Rhino, and Vulture also. And God help me, Mandrill. A baboon in a puffy pirate shirt and a cape.

Comic book drugs were much better in the 60's and 70's LOL

Dam Swarm was in there too? He's my favorite I gotta look thru these issues again and find him

[CMBMOOL]

I wonder if you're thinking about Toad Men which are different from Frog Man.

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/2274/shehulkv202pic1bd2.gif (http://imageshack.us)

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/189/thetoadmentc6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Last I heard those guys were captured by She-Hulk and S.H.I.E.L.D. :(

[Will.S]

Frog-Man gets his own "Apocalypse Now" scene in #15? Anyone have any idea what that means? I haven't seen that movie in ages.
The horror, the horror....

[FrogMan]

Then it's probably not Frog-Man. It's got to be Leap Frog, either Frog-Man's dad, or the guy that was in Daredevil awhile back.

[Scott Wegener]

Then it's probably not Frog-Man. It's got to be Leap Frog, either Frog-Man's dad, or the guy that was in Daredevil awhile back.

Leap-Frog, that's it. Sorry guys. My bad.

PunisherFan -you need to wait for Issue 15. Sorry. :(

[Pyro]

OMG I was so upset when I realized Corey Walker didn't draw this issue. His art was 60% of the reason I picked up this book. But Scott Wegener did a good job too so I wasn't that upset. :P And his style isn't too different so that's a plus. Frank's hair looks like The Captain's from Nextwave lol.

This is a funny arc.

[Nyssane]

Leap-Frog, that's it. Sorry guys. My bad.

PunisherFan -you need to wait for Issue 15. Sorry. :(

That should make FrogMan happy. :p D-Listers have a tendency to, well... not live, in Punisher: War Journal. :(

I hope Bushmaster prevails.

[PunisherFan]

Leap-Frog, that's it. Sorry guys. My bad.

PunisherFan -you need to wait for Issue 15. Sorry. :(

ahhh, well its okay I was looking thru and didn't se ehim. I was starting to think I was blind. lol Can't wait for the conclusion. What a great story so far and hopefully Punisher takes out a bunch of these losers next issue

[vitruvian]

PunisherFan -you need to wait for Issue 15. Sorry.

So, do we need to wait till 16 for Samantha Parrington to show up and carve Kraven a new one using Dragonfang? She's probably looking for her horsie, after all... ;-)

[vitruvian]

And on a more serious note, Kraven having Aragorn shows that he's able to capture folks in training at Camp Hammond, doesn't it?

[PunisherFan]

And on a more serious note, Kraven having Aragorn shows that he's able to capture folks in training at Camp Hammond, doesn't it?

Aragorn is in the Initiative? He's just a powerless horse

[PunisherFan]

Leap-Frog, that's it. Sorry guys. My bad.

PunisherFan -you need to wait for Issue 15. Sorry. :(

Hey I got a quick question for you... Who was the guy laying face down in the water, right before we see Frank chained up at the end? Is this character dead or.....? Just hoping you can help out with that.

[nokahoma]

eh, I know it's comics, and that Aragorn's death will probably be undone by Slott or somebody as soon as possible, but killing off concepts that have been around for 40 years in such an unceremonious fashion is kind of stupid.

[Agent_Torpor]

I'd like to see Castle take out Kangaroo and Rhino in the next one, as well as Tiger Shark

How boring would that be?

That's my whole problem with Frank Castle being in the MU proper. He's a killing machine, but who wants to see their favorite villains killed? And the ones that do get killed are largely d-listers. So color me unimpressed by the whole thing.

[HepOne]

eh, I know it's comics, and that Aragorn's death will probably be undone by Slott or somebody as soon as possible, but killing off concepts that have been around for 40 years in such an unceremonious fashion is kind of stupid.

I think this has been the problem with this series since the beginning. Fraction has just been killing characters off just because he might as well, at least it is becoming more of a comedy now- more characters are likely to be resurected.

The Punisher angle in this is completely redundant. The characters he has killed include- Stilt-Man, The Plunderer, Goldbug and all characters in the bar. The worst offenses most of these characters have done is rob a bank! They arent Punisher targets- EXECUTION FOR ROBBERY?

[Monty_Cristo]

eh, I know it's comics, and that Aragorn's death will probably be undone by Slott or somebody as soon as possible, but killing off concepts that have been around for 40 years in such an unceremonious fashion is kind of stupid.

they are probably setting him up to return with Valkyrie. he is a magical being, correct?

[Tobias Drake]

I think this has been the problem with this series since the beginning. Fraction has just been killing characters off just because he might as well, at least it is becoming more of a comedy now- more characters are likely to be resurected.

The Punisher angle in this is completely redundant. The characters he has killed include- Stilt-Man, The Plunderer, Goldbug and all characters in the bar. The worst offenses most of these characters have done is rob a bank! They arent Punisher targets- EXECUTION FOR ROBBERY?

Quoted for Truth. Castle has much bigger fish to fry.

Hate-Monger was a good choice. Rhino is not.

[Agent_Torpor]

Try as I might, I am just not diggin' the Wegener art on this story. Not to say his art is bad (it's not), but it'd probably be the last kind of style I'd want to see here. Almost as if it's a "Spiderman loves Mary-Jane" sorta style goin on that when fused with a Frank Castle war story, it just loses all kinds of edge and becomes a total farce (maybe that's what Fraction's going for with his Homer Simpson-esque "Can't talk, eating" line from Rhino...)

However, I did dig Wegener's Contessa depiction. Sahhh-weeet!

[Tobias Drake]

Try as I might, I am just not diggin' the Wegener art on this story. Not to say his art is bad (it's not), but it'd probably be the last kind of style I'd want to see here. Almost as if it's a "Spiderman loves Mary-Jane" sorta style goin on that when fused with a Frank Castle war story, it just loses all kinds of edge and becomes a total farce (maybe that's what Fraction's going for with his Homer Simpson-esque "Can't talk, eating" line from Rhino...)

However, I did dig Wegener's Contessa depiction. Sahhh-weeet!

I feel that way every time I see Castle drawn with muscles bigger than the Hulk's head. @.@ Steroid Punisher is just...ridiculous. This was especially prevalent when combined with the hysterically bad Captain Punisher costume during the Hate-Monger arc.

[Agent_Torpor]

I feel that way every time I see Castle drawn with muscles bigger than the Hulk's head. @.@ Steroid Punisher is just...ridiculous. This was especially prevalent when combined with the hysterically bad Captain Punisher costume during the Hate-Monger arc.

In 100% agreement - there's got to be a nice medium between roided Frank and Wegener's happy Frank.

Frank Castle's original appeal was that he was an everyman thrust into his unenviable position - at least that's what I gathered from his original run in the 80s under Mike Baron. Super-roid monster Frank just blows.

[Ryno]

I enjoyed Scott’s work on issue 14 a great deal. While his style may not fit the traditional Punisher look I think it fits in very well on this story arc. I’d love to see him do more work for Marvel. I think he’d be perfect for a Deadpool series if they should start up a new book once Cable & Deadpool finishes it’s run.

I was fortunate enough to have Scott in my store on Saturday to so a signing and he and his Wife were very gracious and fun to talk with. I saw his work on War Journal #15 and I think it’s fantastic.

[PunisherFan]

How boring would that be?

That's my whole problem with Frank Castle being in the MU proper. He's a killing machine, but who wants to see their favorite villains killed? And the ones that do get killed are largely d-listers. So color me unimpressed by the whole thing.

the whole reason there d-listers is b/c no1 really uses them. WHo on earth is begging for more to be done with the Kangaroo? Favorite characters? unlikely, but liked. Thats the whole thing with any time that a character is killed off.

[Agent_Torpor]

the whole reason there d-listers is b/c no1 really uses them. WHo on earth is begging for more to be done with the Kangaroo? Favorite characters? unlikely, but liked. Thats the whole thing with any time that a character is killed off.

So the whole point of PWJ is to kill off any random d-lister Fraction can dig out of the OHOTMU?

No thx. Sure, no one really gives a hoot about Kangaroo, but the idea of the lower-echelon characters just being fodder for Frank Castle turns me off.

[PunisherFan]

So the whole point of PWJ is to kill off any random d-lister Fraction can dig out of the OHOTMU?

No thx. Sure, no one really gives a hoot about Kangaroo, but the idea of the lower-echelon characters just being fodder for Frank Castle turns me off.

Its not thee whole point of the series, but I don't understand why so many people get so bent out of shape when some under-used awful villain or hero dies It's sim ple if you don't like that sort of thing then don't buy it or wait until a new writer comes a long

[Tobias Drake]

Its not thee whole point of the series, but I don't understand why so many people get so bent out of shape when some under-used awful villain or hero dies It's sim ple if you don't like that sort of thing then don't buy it or wait until a new writer comes a long

As a matter of fact, if you don't like watching characters get killed off, why are you following anything with the Punisher's name in it to begin with? :p

[Agent_Torpor]

As a matter of fact, if you don't like watching characters get killed off, why are you following anything with the Punisher's name in it to begin with? :p

Until PWJ came along, it was a gimmick that we didn't have to deal with, at least for Frank Castle fans. Which is why I always thought he was much better outside the MU.

[PunisherFan]

As a matter of fact, if you don't like watching characters get killed off, why are you following anything with the Punisher's name in it to begin with? :p

I love it, lol. Thats why I love the Punisher.... hence the name. He hasn't killed anyone in awhile though....:(

[StoneGold]

I love it, lol. Thats why I love the Punisher.... hence the name. He hasn't killed anyone in awhile though....:(

Sure he did. He killed those two goons working with the Rhino.

[Nyssane]

Its not thee whole point of the series, but I don't understand why so many people get so bent out of shape when some under-used awful villain or hero dies It's sim ple if you don't like that sort of thing then don't buy it or wait until a new writer comes a long

Because it's bad writing to use characters that have been around for several years just to kill them off with only one or two lines (if that, even). Believe it or not, some people love D-listers just as much as they love A-listers. I know if Anaconda was in the series and she got killed off randomly, I'd be up in arms.

[StoneGold]

Because it's bad writing to use characters that have been around for several years just to kill them off with only one or two lines (if that, even).

You're right, Mark Gruenwald was a lousy writer.

[Nyssane]

You're right, Mark Gruenwald was a lousy writer.

The Bar With No Name incident was bad , if that's what you're referring to, but beyond that Gruenwald had a great grasp on super-villains.

[PunisherFan]

Sure he did. He killed those two goons working with the Rhino.

I meant super-villains though... costumes

[Castiglione]

That's my whole problem with Frank Castle being in the MU proper. He's a killing machine, but who wants to see their favorite villains killed? And the ones that do get killed are largely d-listers. So color me unimpressed by the whole thing.

Frank Castle; showing super-heroes how to do their job with no super powers since that day in the park.

[vitruvian]

Aragorn is in the Initiative? He's just a powerless horse

Aragorn himself may not be in the Initiative (although I'd dispute the powerless thing, since he's supposed to be highly intelligent as well as able to fly), but his current owner/rider, the Samantha Parrington Valkyrie, is. Admittedly, we don't know if she's still in training at Camp Hammond, or assigned to a team somewhere, but either way it reflects poorly on the Initiative for Kraven to be able to snag even associate members in this way and not have anybody looking for them.

Not to mention what the Valkyrie is likely to do to Kraven when she finds out about this....

[vitruvian]

Another point - a number of Kraven's captives were members of the Hood's crew. Will we ever see the Hood going after Kraven (and possibly Punisher as well), as he's promised to do to *anybody* who messes with any of his people? I suspect the Mandrill will be demanding 'justice' in the form of an eye for an eye...