FF #552 (Spoilers)

[Trey]

Summary




After killing Namor last issue, we pick up with BP attacking Reed, who was ready to blow his head off too!. They struggle and BAM down goes Panther. The Thing reaches into Namor's body and pulls out a cybernetic spine! They were both robots, as Doom was trying to convince the FF that Reed would implement Idea #101.

Doom recaps Reeds recent behavior, comparing Reed to himself. Grimm gets mad and Clobbers Doom through the building and hands Doom his A$%. Doom then recovers and then Trashes the Thing.

Here comes the rest of the FF to help the Thing. Doom takes them out. He takes out Reed with a device that tangles up Reeds stretchy body.

Last page: The Fantastic Four from the future arrives. Reed and Johnny are aged, the Thing looks even more solid and Sue is a bit more mature as well.


Awesome story, Awesome fights, great dialogue.

But what stands out? The amazing freakin art! Pelletier is soooooo underrated.

[CMBMOOL]

Did they mention World War Hulk in this issue ? :(

[drwho]

This issue was awesome and the art is absolutely gorgeous. I really like how Doom is used in here and it is nice that he is bringing up all these dark aspects of Reed's personality. Still interesting seeing where this is going.

[ComicBookGuyAndy]

I really enjoyed this. Excellent art and a solid story. I enjoy McDuffie's Doom

[Omega Alpha]

Very interesting. I just hope we don't end with something like "of course Doom is wrong", it would be much better if in the end Doom is at least partially right.

[DaeJi]

Did they mention World War Hulk in this issue ? :(

I don't WWH will get mentioned in any comic unless it spawned from it, or WWH absolutely has to be referenced. That was not a universe changing event.

Hmmm... this is looking more and more like a "Doom is just screwing with us" kind of thing.

[bulbasteve]

Very interesting. I just hope we don't end with something like "of course Doom is wrong", it would be much better if in the end Doom is at least partially right.

Well Sue was with the future FF so Doom lied about that too it seems...

[jackolover]

They were both robots, as Doom was trying to convince the FF that Reed would implement Idea #101.


Do we hear more about what idea #101 is?

[Trey]

Do we hear more about what idea #101 is?

I believe it was "fix everything"


When heroes try that, it leads to a dystopian future.

Jurgens on Thor did this, where even the most noble hero out there, Thor, implemented this and it turns out to backfire on him.

"Camelot Falls" in the Superman book by Busiek also explores this. Where superheroes helping society on large scales may in fact lead to disastrous consequences.

[jackolover]

I believe it was "fix everything"


Fix everything is very general. Is there anything more specific, like the weather, the villains, space travel, time travel. Anything that points to why Doom was supposedly in an undersea prison, and now he has access to weapons that can take out the FF from 2007.

[Trey]

Fix everything is very general. Is there anything more specific, like the weather, the villains, space travel, time travel. Anything that points to why Doom was supposedly in an undersea prison, and now he has access to weapons that can take out the FF from 2007.

Thats the thing == Fix everything means fix everything. Nothing specific.

Remember Reed had the formula during CW where they had to do all these things to prevent the future disaster? I think He and Iron Man came up with a list of 100. SHRA was one of those. and now 101 is "fix everything" which would mean things like end global warming, poverty, inequality, etc. Sorta like an attempt to make Earth a paradise.

Now it seems Doom has come back to prevent that attempt.

[jackolover]

Thats the thing == Fix everything means fix everything. Nothing specific.

Remember Reed had the formula during CW where they had to do all these things to prevent the future disaster? I think He and Iron Man came up with a list of 100. SHRA was one of those. and now 101 is "fix everything" which would mean things like end global warming, poverty, inequality, etc. Sorta like an attempt to make Earth a paradise.

Now it seems Doom has come back to prevent that attempt.

That can be so subjective. Talk to the Khymer Rouge, and fix everything is, make slaves of all mankind. Who is the almighty arbitrator for what is the generally accepted average?

[Trey]

That can be so subjective. Talk to the Khymer Rouge, and fix everything is, make slaves of all mankind. Who is the almighty arbitrator for what is the generally accepted average?

Thats why its a slippery slope. Iron man and Reed took the stance that they can do this for everyone, "for their own good" as Doom tells the rest of the FF. Thats why the word fascist has been thrown around so much at IM and Reed.

Noone has the right to decide for everyone.

[jackolover]

Thats why its a slippery slope. Iron man and Reed took the stance that they can do this for everyone, "for their own good" as Doom tells the rest of the FF. Thats why the word fascist has been thrown around so much at IM and Reed.

Noone has the right to decide for everyone.

Do you think the equations dictated what the fix-it is?

[ivesaidway2much]

I'm curious. Does anyone think the Fantastic Four killed any civilians in that office building? Ben just drove Doom through like 5 or 6 floors and left a giant crater in the ground level without giving anyone even a moment's notice. And then Johnny comes in sets everything on fire. Is there still collateral damage in comics post-Civil War? Are the FF murderers?

[DaeJi]

I'm curious. Does anyone think the Fantastic Four killed any civilians in that office building? Ben just drove Doom through like 5 or 6 floors and left a giant crater in the ground level without giving anyone even a moment's notice. And then Johnny comes in sets everything on fire. Is there still collateral damage in comics post-Civil War? Are the FF murderers?

If the Hulk isn't a murder, it's only fair that the Fantastic Four aren't.

[stingerman]

I'm curious. Does anyone think the Fantastic Four killed any civilians in that office building? Ben just drove Doom through like 5 or 6 floors and left a giant crater in the ground level without giving anyone even a moment's notice. And then Johnny comes in sets everything on fire. Is there still collateral damage in comics post-Civil War? Are the FF murderers?

I think it took place either after normal business hours and there was just a skeleton crew inside so no one was hurt or it took place during lunch. ;)

[Tobias Drake]

The building was abandoned. You did not see people fleeing in terror while Ben was punching Doom through the floor. These are not the droids you're looking for. *handwave*

[stingerman]

The building was abandoned. You did not see people fleeing in terror while Ben was punching Doom through the floor. These are not the droids you're looking for. *handwave*

now move along.
*handwave*

[bulbasteve]

That can be so subjective. Talk to the Khymer Rouge, and fix everything is, make slaves of all mankind. Who is the almighty arbitrator for what is the generally accepted average?

Yet we know what Reed's subjective standard as he said it himself last issue as I'm sure you recall (come on tell me you at least got that issue! :p): "End hunger, poverty, disease and war. Increase freedom. Maximize potential, both individually and collectively. Create opprotunities to challenge and enrich the human spirit."

Of course it was called the "information revolution" so that may give you a better sense of the type of world we are talking about. And it sure doesn't sound to me like a Doom style dictatorship.

[jackolover]

Yet we know what Reed's subjective standard as he said it himself last issue as I'm sure you recall (come on tell me you at least got that issue! :p): "End hunger, poverty, disease and war. Increase freedom. Maximize potential, both individually and collectively. Create opprotunities to challenge and enrich the human spirit."

Of course it was called the "information revolution" so that may give you a better sense of the type of world we are talking about. And it sure doesn't sound to me like a Doom style dictatorship.

Thanks. Yes I did get the issue, and I must have forgotten. The idea still leaves a few holes. It describes the results of 'some action', but as yet that action is still undefined. Let's say, it is giving everyone on earth a million dollars and an instant University degree. That is, implanted knowledge. If that is what idea #101 is, then tell us what it is.

[Ogrebear]

To me Idea #101 is not all that bad if tried slowly and creativly.

Why have Thor and co fly food to Africa when Storm can just create the weather that would let the crops grow and stop the starvation? Why not have Stark buy the surplus food from the EU or America for re-distribution? Why not have Molecule Man rebuild New Orleans in a handwave? Why not encourge democracy with help to opposition groups in places like Burma?

BUT

Do it all in the background. Subtle. Use shell companies. Use 3rd parties. Don't seem to be doing it. Change the world without the fireworks.

Helping people does not mean beating them over the head with your powers or money or leaving it to 'market forces' to fix imho.

[Xero]

It's weird how many geeks think much of Africa is starving people in huts harassed by wildlife, there is a some malnutrition and limited starvation. i have friends who work IT in Africa, so yeah they actually have an infrastructure. Free food hurts Africa it doesn't help it. African farmers have to compete with free grain from subsidized US and European farmers, and up until recently the World Bank/IMF wouldn't allow African countries to subsidize their own farmers.

Only recently has the African farming community begun to recover from decades of damage done by the West. African countries have now been allow to subsidize their own farmers, but they still have to compete with free grain and cheap Western produce.

[XPac]

Well, whatever 101 is I'm sure Reed won't end up doing it. I kinda doubt that Millar's FF run and the rest of FF's history will be about him implementing 101, so in all likelihood Reed will realize that for whatever reason, Doom will be right about 101.

[Tobias Drake]

To me Idea #101 is not all that bad if tried slowly and creativly.

Why have Thor and co fly food to Africa when Storm can just create the weather that would let the crops grow and stop the starvation? Why not have Stark buy the surplus food from the EU or America for re-distribution? Why not have Molecule Man rebuild New Orleans in a handwave? Why not encourge democracy with help to opposition groups in places like Burma?

BUT

Do it all in the background. Subtle. Use shell companies. Use 3rd parties. Don't seem to be doing it. Change the world without the fireworks.

Helping people does not mean beating them over the head with your powers or money or leaving it to 'market forces' to fix imho.

So true. The hard part will be not giving, but helping them to give to themselves. Storm would make a big rainstorm to grow crops, but that would only increase their dependency on Storm. Would it not be better for Reed to put his mind to building better irrigation systems to water their crops?

Remember: if you give a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day. But if you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

[Agent_Torpor]

So true. The hard part will be not giving, but helping them to give to themselves. Storm would make a big rainstorm to grow crops, but that would only increase their dependency on Storm. Would it not be better for Reed to put his mind to building better irrigation systems to water their crops?

Remember: if you give a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day. But if you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

Can we set Reed on fire?

[Sion]

My interst in the FF4 is beginning to rekindle. Good issue. =)

[jackolover]

To me Idea #101 is not all that bad if tried slowly and creativly.

Why have Thor and co fly food to Africa when Storm can just create the weather that would let the crops grow and stop the starvation? Why not have Stark buy the surplus food from the EU or America for re-distribution? Why not have Molecule Man rebuild New Orleans in a handwave? Why not encourge democracy with help to opposition groups in places like Burma?

BUT

Do it all in the background. Subtle. Use shell companies. Use 3rd parties. Don't seem to be doing it. Change the world without the fireworks.

Helping people does not mean beating them over the head with your powers or money or leaving it to 'market forces' to fix imho.

My biggest concern about metas is that in a real world, anybody with powers is not going to be able to really use it in a controlled manner, anyway. Imagine a Human torch, catching fire. I can't see someone like that able to use this phenomenon to fly, or to absorb bush fires, because he'd be too freaked to help anyone. Same goes for people who can control storms. These people won't want to wake up in the morning, because they'd freak out everybody. They'd have to send them them to Sakaar for real this time, because anybody with powers to control the elements are like gods, not heroes. And gods are uncontrollable, and unfathomable. That's why I can't see metas making the worlds problems go away. They are fictional constructs, being used in fictional situations

[Lanowar]

I was a fan of McDuffie's JLA cartoon work but reading this and Fantastic Four I've been very underwelmed. The arc reads like one big excuse to have Doom fight the Fantastic Four. Just like his Justice League Arc was just an excuse to have a bunch of bad-guys talking in a parody of the first arc of Justice League and get Firestorm on the team.

The problem I have is that his arc's are too small they don't go very far before there finished. With the Fantastic Four as it seems like the only thing he's been allowed him to do was bring back Gravity. It Just reads like he's been told to kill time before Millar and Hitch take over.

[DeadXMan]

Why was been the sensible one at the beginning?
and what's with claming his undying love for Reed?
and getting along with Jhonny?

The real Ben Grimm is still in France.
The Thing that returned at the end of CW is aSkrull

[Tobias Drake]

and what's with claming his undying love for Reed?

He's apparently gay for Reed. Even the Skrulls can tell. :p Or they just didn't do their homework properly. Either way, when this is all over, it'll be awkwaaaaaard.

[Harold of the Rocks]

Very interesting. I just hope we don't end with something like "of course Doom is wrong", it would be much better if in the end Doom is at least partially right.I was thinking along these lines as well. Doesn't it stand to reason that the FF from the future have a vested interest in preserving their past? Maybe they are there to help stop Doom (who likely has an ulterior motive) and maybe, just maybe, convince 'present day' Reed to take a different course of action than idea #101... because maybe it never did happen in the future, and they don't want Reed & Co. to pursue it only because Doom said not to... maybe Doom is right about that... even if his motives are different.

Do you think the equations dictated what the fix-it is?Of course. Reed doesn't do anything without calculating it to the nth degree.

And mock Ben's defense of Reed all you want, but I thought that was absolutely poetic and perfect for Ben. The one guy on the team who isn't 'true family' but has always been there for his best friend. That's got to be one of the all time great smackdown monologues I have ever read. Pelletier's art is sooo good, and yet the writing eclipsed that. This was a really excellent issue, and while I agree that Pelletier is underappreciated, I think McDuffie is even moreso. He's made his mark on this book as far as I am concerned, and to those who feel he is only a placeholder until Millar arrives, I say...

"You are wrong."

... I don't care if it is an opinion. You're wrong.

;)

[jackolover]

.

Of course. Reed doesn't do anything without calculating it to the nth degree.

And mock Ben's defense of Reed all you want, but I thought that was absolutely poetic and perfect for Ben. The one guy on the team who isn't 'true family' but has always been there for his best friend. That's got to be one of the all time great smackdown monologues I have ever read.

;)

Post civil war, Ben Grimm had some issues about being on the fence about what Reed had done. I guess Ben has reconciled all those demons about Reed, and has aligned himself next to his buddy, just like before CW.

However, I do wonder Bens logic, regarding his loyalty towards Reed. JMS has driven Ben into Hell and back, in his run, and Reed wasn't that far behind him, either. Maybe the incidentals that went on in CW were minor bumps in the road of family and friendship that has been the Fantastic Four. I feel Sue and Johnny are not at that point, as yet.

[CMBMOOL]

I must admit could Doom be right about Reed ? :(

I meand think about it during the Civil War event the FF almost broke up due to Reed siding with Tony and Co, and just as they were about to come together again the Hulk comes back and he claims that Reed send him away and we still have yet to see the fall out from that. :(

Between Clor, Reed's equation of life, and The Hulk's return, could Doom be right in saying that him and Reed are just alike, because I have yet to see any of the FF call Reed out on the Hulk's exile, and here's I was hoping Ben would at least try to defend his fighting partner against his best friend. :(

What do you all think of this ? :(

[Harold of the Rocks]

"I don't care how it looks, I don't care what people say. My friend Reed Richards is a good man. He cares about the truth, how things got here, how things work, how they could be better. He wants to know. He wants to know everything. There's only two things in the whole blamed universe more important to him than that. Anytime anybody's gettin' a raw deal? Reed's right there, fightin' for them like they wuz his own blood. And if you are his blood? There ain't even a word for the kinda love and loyalty you get from him."

I see Ben's departure to France during Civil War as him trying to reconcile his own doubts about Reed's judgements... not his intentions. I think Ben has come to terms with the fact that Reed did what he thought was for the best, even if Ben doesn't agree with Reed in his decisions. So he's backin Stretcho again, because he realizes he trusts Reed, even if he can't see the outcomes in the same way. At the time in Civil War, he wasn't sure that he did trust Reed's judgements. I see no contradiction. And Ben lost his friend Bill Foster as a result of Civil War... "to forgive is to forget..." Ben forgives Reed for what he feels was a bad judgement. He also knows that Reed sacrificed of himself for what he believes in. Reed won't always be right, but he will always use his 'big brain' to try and do what is right. And that is something Ben can support. I see no contradiction in character.

[Harold of the Rocks]

Where Doom is wrong (and Ben is right) is that Reed's loyalties are to helping others from suffering, and the truth. Doom claims that Reed is interested in 'glory'. Doom and Reed are similar in that both want to use their immense intellects to change the world... Reed for the better of all, Doom for the better of himself. Doom disguises his lust for glory as a desire for the good of humanity (as ruler of the world, he could end suffering, etc... but he would not do it if he could not get the recognition of doing so). Reed has no interest in glory, only the good of others.

That's what I love about Ben's 'soliloquy'. He nails Reed's character perfectly, and does it in that trademark Bashful Benjy style. McDuffie wrote Ben describing Reed in a way that shows Ben knows Reed so well. In other words, McDuffie understands both characters completely, and demonstrated this while Ben mopped the floor with Doom. And I want a poster of that two page spread "Mister, you just crossed the line!".

[CMBMOOL]

"I don't care how it looks, I don't care what people say. My friend Reed Richards is a good man. He cares about the truth, how things got here, how things work, how they could be better. He wants to know. He wants to know everything. There's only two things in the whole blamed universe more important to him than that. Anytime anybody's gettin' a raw deal? Reed's right there, fightin' for them like they wuz his own blood. And if you are his blood? There ain't even a word for the kinda love and loyalty you get from him."

I see Ben's departure to France during Civil War as him trying to reconcile his own doubts about Reed's judgements... not his intentions. I think Ben has come to terms with the fact that Reed did what he thought was for the best, even if Ben doesn't agree with Reed in his decisions. So he's backin Stretcho again, because he realizes he trusts Reed, even if he can't see the outcomes in the same way. At the time in Civil War, he wasn't sure that he did trust Reed's judgements. I see no contradiction. And Ben lost his friend Bill Foster as a result of Civil War... "to forgive is to forget..." Ben forgives Reed for what he feels was a bad judgement. He also knows that Reed sacrificed of himself for what he believes in. Reed won't always be right, but he will always use his 'big brain' to try and do what is right. And that is something Ben can support. I see no contradiction in character.


But again I must ask how does Ben feel when he learns of Reed's part in the Hulk's exile and how he almost got killed again from the Hulk's fist just because he was defending Reed. :(

[StoneGold]

It's weird how many geeks think much of Africa is starving people in huts harassed by wildlife, there is a some malnutrition and limited starvation.

Probably about the same number of geeks who lump Africa into one monolithic nation with no real boundaries.

[ivesaidway2much]

Probably about the same number of geeks who lump Africa into one monolithic nation with no real boundaries.Yeah, I know. It's amazing to me how many people don't know that the country of Africa is bounded by the Atlantic and Pacific oceans.

[jackolover]

That's what I love about Ben's 'soliloquy'. He nails Reed's character perfectly, and does it in that trademark Bashful Benjy style.

Maybe that's all it is, between Ben and Reed. No matter what Reed does, even if the rest of the team don't like it, they own it, too. It's like a brother that's done something wrong. You don't throw your hands up and walk away. When people slang off at Reed, then Sue and Johnny and Ben wait around and take it all, with him. They are like the Warbound, in that sense. You go through life with these 4 partners, and there is one thing you can count on, and that's when people are out to get you, the people you trust, will be standing right there beside you, taking it with you.

There's a sort of fatality in all that, about the FF's comaraderie. They seem to be locked in that circle. That bondage of cosmic rays. Like the cosmic rays hold them together, whether they want to split up or not. It's like blood and race.

Edit : I put the FF in the same catagory as Black Bolt and Maximus. Bolt can't see himself make the final solution about his brother. As hard as Maximus makes it for Bolt, Bolt can't seem to break out of that circle of brothership.

[Kid Kyoto]

It's weird how many geeks think much of Africa is starving people in huts harassed by wildlife, there is a some malnutrition and limited starvation. i have friends who work IT in Africa, so yeah they actually have an infrastructure. Free food hurts Africa it doesn't help it. African farmers have to compete with free grain from subsidized US and European farmers, and up until recently the World Bank/IMF wouldn't allow African countries to subsidize their own farmers.

Only recently has the African farming community begun to recover from decades of damage done by the West. African countries have now been allow to subsidize their own farmers, but they still have to compete with free grain and cheap Western produce.

Africa is large. Yeah starvation is limited to a few hot spots like Darfur and the congo but it's not like hunger is nonexistant.

[bulbasteve]

It's weird how many geeks think much of Africa is starving people in huts harassed by wildlife, there is a some malnutrition and limited starvation. i have friends who work IT in Africa, so yeah they actually have an infrastructure. Free food hurts Africa it doesn't help it. African farmers have to compete with free grain from subsidized US and European farmers, and up until recently the World Bank/IMF wouldn't allow African countries to subsidize their own farmers.

Only recently has the African farming community begun to recover from decades of damage done by the West. African countries have now been allow to subsidize their own farmers, but they still have to compete with free grain and cheap Western produce.

Thanks JMS :) but A. It's pretty hard for famers to grow things when there are massive droughts and floods, obviously it's not like we are sending crops to south africa or egypt or something :p B. Even in general throughout the whole continent the percentage of those undernourished is higher than anywhere else and in the 12 (not just 1 or 2 places you know!) or so hotspots it can go up to like 40% of a population, there are over 100million undernourished in sub-saharan africa, calling that is a few is absured!

And Reed could solve anything. :)

[Tobias Drake]

And Reed could solve anything.

Could Reed Richards devise a mathematical equation SO COMPLEX that even Reed Richards himself could not solve it? :p

[bulbasteve]

Could Reed Richards devise a mathematical equation SO COMPLEX that even Reed Richards himself could not solve it? :p

He already did AND he solved the paradox of the question too in the famous "galactus lifting a big rock" experiment!

[Exo]

I'm curious. Does anyone think the Fantastic Four killed any civilians in that office building? Ben just drove Doom through like 5 or 6 floors and left a giant crater in the ground level without giving anyone even a moment's notice. And then Johnny comes in sets everything on fire. Is there still collateral damage in comics post-Civil War? Are the FF murderers?

Maybe they're subconsciously solving complex differential equations that keeps the collateral damage done to a minimum?

[CyberCoyote]

Once they figured out that the Hulk never killed anyone everyone pretty much figured anything goes, it's 616 physics.

Ben's explanation of his and Reed's relationship was perfect, that is where the two guys stand. Heck, back when they fought together in WWII they.. oh, wait, not anymore :p As far as the Hulk thing goes, didn't JMS kinda retcon the idea of blasting him into space as Reed taking something Ben said as a joke to heart after the Las Vegas fight? Ben loves Reed (not THAT way, although there's nothing wrong with that) but he'll not be too happy when he finds out. Was it never brought up during Planet Hulk?

This issue was as good as the FF has been in decades, just wonderful. For the acid test I showed it to my budding FF spawn who's six and he lost his mind insisting that I HAD to have the next issue to see what happens next.

[Pyro]

This issue reminded me of Waid's Affirmative Action arc where Reed made decisions without letting his family in on them. Not because he didn't trust them, but because he didn't want them to have to deal with the ramifications. He hasn't really done anything here yet, but it's his way of acting that reminded me of that arc.

I think the robot reveal was kind of underwhelming given the black oil that spurted from them. It didn't look at all like blood so I don't know why everyone was fooled in the first place.

I think this arc is going a little too slowly. Basically, Future Doom comes and says Reed is going to ruin the future. The FF doesn't believe him. It's been two issues of that. We still don't really know exactly what Reed did or what happened to the world. I understand that the interaction between the characters makes for good scenes, but I think the plot should have progressed a little more by now (i.e. I would have condensed these two issues into one).

[jackolover]

This issue reminded me of Waid's Affirmative Action arc where Reed made decisions without letting his family in on them. Not because he didn't trust them, but because he didn't want them to have to deal with the ramifications. He hasn't really done anything here yet, but it's his way of acting that reminded me of that arc.

I think the robot reveal was kind of underwhelming given the black oil that spurted from them. It didn't look at all like blood so I don't know why everyone was fooled in the first place.

I think this arc is going a little too slowly. Basically, Future Doom comes and says Reed is going to ruin the future. The FF doesn't believe him. It's been two issues of that. We still don't really know exactly what Reed did or what happened to the world. I understand that the interaction between the characters makes for good scenes, but I think the plot should have progressed a little more by now (i.e. I would have condensed these two issues into one).

Yes, very Waid run feel to it.

And it does make you wonder if Doom is just being sour grapes, because with the appearance of all the future FF, it does look like the other 3 agreed to Reeds plan. That is, unless future Reed brain washed the other 3 FF.

[lazlo_toth]

I must admit could Doom be right about Reed ? :(

I meand think about it during the Civil War event the FF almost broke up due to Reed siding with Tony and Co, and just as they were about to come together again the Hulk comes back and he claims that Reed send him away and we still have yet to see the fall out from that. :(

Between Clor, Reed's equation of life, and The Hulk's return, could Doom be right in saying that him and Reed are just alike, because I have yet to see any of the FF call Reed out on the Hulk's exile, and here's I was hoping Ben would at least try to defend his fighting partner against his best friend. :(

What do you all think of this ? :(


I think you're getting to the very heart of why an awful lot of people are upset at Marvel these days. The issue is not "are the stories good?" The issue is whether or not the characters are behaving in ways that are consistent with the way that they've been depicted over the past 40 years. In Civil War, Reed Richards committed atrocities. You can argue with me all you want about how compelling his reasons may or may not have been, but he and Stark did things that would have gotten them hanged as war criminals if they'd done it 60 years ago. What is the difference between Reed tampering with Thor's DNA and Josef Mengele's antics for the Nazis? Well, Mengele probably wasn't friends with any of his test subjects, and he didn't have access to the kind of tech Richards has so he was limited in the amount of hi-jinks he could partake in, but apart from that, not much. I'm sure he felt his reasons for doing what he did were just as compelling as Reed's, too. I can't accept that Reed Richards would cross that particular line for ANY reason. He would never stop believing that he could find a better way. I can certainly believe Sue would bolt upon finding out that her husband is a monster, but leaving her children in his care? Or going back to him? EVER?

I suppose Reed could be a Skrull, but he's not the only one who's behavior has been, um, erratic lately, and they can't all be Skrulls. Just out of curiosity, how many of you are excited about the Skrull Invasion? Now how many of you think this is all just a built-in cop-out so that Quesada and Bendis can drag us all along for two years and then just say "Hey, no problem! They were all Skrulls!" Personally my prediction is they're going to find the Scarlet Witch again, spectacular fighting will ensue consisting of dozens of splash pages, with a minimum of actual words to read (a couple of lines of snappy dialogue, y'know, Wolverine arguing with Luke Cage about who did a better job of playing Batman, Keaton or Kilmer, while they're eviscerating ninjas), that any writer other than Bendis could script in a single issue, or even a half issue, while Bendis himself will take five or six. It all ends with most of the MU dead, and Wolverine, his healing factor burned out from Magneto once again sucking all the metal out of his body, has his claws at Wanda's throat. Wanda, unable to move because Spidey covered her with webbing right before she buried him under about a thousand hex-conjured Spidey clones, is just barely able to get three words out before Wolvie's claws sever her windpipe:
IT...NEVER...HAPPENED...

and everything goes white and we all wake up and it's five minutes since the Kree-Skrull War ended and Iron Man is like, "Wow, what a crazy vision I just had! No more Absinthe for me!"


And does anybody REALLY think Steve Rogers is going to stay dead? What was that artifact he and the Red Skrull wre always fighting over, the one that controlled reality? Oh, yeah, the COSMIC CUBE! I wonder what would happen if Bucky or Sharon or Nick Fury ever got a hold of that and started thinking about much they miss having Steve Rogers around?