Ghost Rider #18 *spoilers*

[RabidWolfe]

Of course, as if Ghost Rider's continuity weren't convoluted enough, we get another big revelation.

Apparently, Blaze was possessed by an Angel, lo those many years ago.

No explanation of how this fits with the whole Zarathos the Demon God who tried to take control of Blaze and unlease destruction upon the world thing.

Really - why does every new writer on GR have to reveal something new about GR that completely contradicts (or at least severly complicates) what went on before?

I can think of a few ways to still make it work, but boy does it require some serious mental contortions.

[Mr. Earl Brooks]

Yes, I too was thoroughly irritated. I'll admit I didn't see it coming, mostly though because it doesn't make sense.

[Alan2099]

That's the biggest thing that's stopped me from really enjoying Ghostrider over the year. Nobody can agree to what Dan, and Johnny, and Zarathos, and the Ghostrider really are, or where, or have become. Everybody tells it different.

[drwho]

Yeah it really sucks. They convolute already convoluted origins more. I do hope they explain the Zarathos thing. This was actually a decent issue for a Way issue. Glad the angels didn't last long they were pretty lame. Just wish that they would somehow combine continuity together somehow so this makes sense. Something as simple as saying that somehow during the possession Zarathos was able to piggyback into the body with the angel and assumed control while the Angel was knocked out or something.

[overcomebyfumes]

Every new writer on Ghost Rider is allowed to change the origin. It's in the contract - the "Noble Kale" clause.

There's a rumor that the next writer will change it to "was bitten by a radioactive ghost". I'm looking forward to that.

pax.

[DasPoppen]

Jason Aaron to the rescue (starting with #20).

[Tobias Drake]

...well. That sucked. So Ghost Rider's an angel. That...makes my brain hurt.

[Cayman]

Jason Aaron to the rescue (starting with #20).

Such good news.

[Alan2099]

Yeah it really sucks. They convolute already convoluted origins more. I do hope they explain the Zarathos thing. This was actually a decent issue for a Way issue. Glad the angels didn't last long they were pretty lame. Just wish that they would somehow combine continuity together somehow so this makes sense. Something as simple as saying that somehow during the possession Zarathos was able to piggyback into the body with the angel and assumed control while the Angel was knocked out or something.

At this point, I'd settle for Mephisto showing up and just saying, "you know everything you thought you knew about yourself? It's all lies. All one huge elaborate lie after another. I do things like that sometimes. It entertains me."

[Tobias Drake]

At this point, I'd settle for Mephisto showing up and just saying, "you know everything you thought you knew about yourself? It's all lies. All one huge elaborate lie after another. I do things like that sometimes. It entertains me."

I'd buy that.

[BeastieRunner]

At this point, I'd settle for Mephisto showing up and just saying, "you know everything you thought you knew about yourself? It's all lies. All one huge elaborate lie after another. I do things like that sometimes. It entertains me."

That would kick ass.

[stingerman]

Im glad I didnt get this then. Wasnt it hyped as being a must read issue or something by Marvel. baah!

I will get it when the new creative team comes aboard. Next iss I think?

[DasPoppen]

Im glad I didnt get this then. Wasnt it hyped as being a must read issue or something by Marvel. baah!

I will get it when the new creative team comes aboard. Next iss I think?

Issue 20 will be the start of Aaron's run.

GHOST RIDER # 20
The Story: HELL-BENT AND HEAVEN-BOUND, PART ONE
Following the startling revelations of the previous arc, writer Jason Aaron (WOLVERINE, Scalped) and artist Roland Boschi take Ghost Rider down a blazing new road! Over the years, Johnny Blaze has lost everything to the curse of the Ghost Rider -- his family, his life, even his soul. But now, at long last, Johnny finally knows who's responsible for turning him into a flame-headed horror-show on wheels, and he's hitting the road, looking for vengeance and answers…but mostly just vengeance.
Rated T+…$2.99


In Stores: Feb 13, 2008

[1WEBHEAD]

I thought enough people learned their lesson from the WWH tie in issues and Marvel would notice what a disappointment this title has become. . .

[The Ray]

The Noble Kale character was the Angel of Death, but that got retcon out. Zarathos could have been an angel that fell to Hell, but...eh.


Thanks Danny Way, for nothing,

[The Ray]

At this point, I'd settle for Mephisto showing up and just saying, "you know everything you thought you knew about yourself? It's all lies. All one huge elaborate lie after another. I do things like that sometimes. It entertains me."

I think that that'll happen eventually.

[Tobias Drake]

Based on solicits for the new author, it sounds like the "Ghost Rider is an angel" thing is going to be developed under him. I can't help but wonder if it's something the next author wanted prepped to take over, and was shoehorned into the current author's run. Is there any official word on where this idea came from?

[Harlock]

Based on solicits for the new author, it sounds like the "Ghost Rider is an angel" thing is going to be developed under him. I can't help but wonder if it's something the next author wanted prepped to take over, and was shoehorned into the current author's run. Is there any official word on where this idea came from?

No idea where the idea came from, but I can assure you Jason Aaron is a treat to read. Scalped has been awesome.

[will_butler]

No idea where the idea came from, but I can assure you Jason Aaron is a treat to read. Scalped has been awesome.

And The Other Side as well. I'll be jumping on board Ghost Rider with Aaron's first issue. I actually tried this out when they started the new title, but got tired of Way's scripting leading to 3 minute reads. Loved the art, though.

Will

[RabidWolfe]

At this point, I'd settle for Mephisto showing up and just saying, "you know everything you thought you knew about yourself? It's all lies. All one huge elaborate lie after another. I do things like that sometimes. It entertains me."

I could go with that.

But then, Mephisto would say, "Even that was a lie!"

[Tobias Drake]

MEPHISTO: It's a lie wrapped in a blanket wrapped in a coccoon of another lie, lightly sauted with pinto beans and relish and left to simmer.
GHOST RIDER: What the Fisk are you ranting about? Are you on something?
MEPHISTO: Bah. You just have no taste. But if you think that's bad, you should see how I Fisked with Peter Parker.

[stingerman]

I could go with that.

But then, Mephisto would say, "Even that was a lie!"

Hopefully!

WTF GR is an angel? Oh, boy!

[Cthulhudrew]

At this point, I'd settle for Mephisto showing up and just saying, "you know everything you thought you knew about yourself? It's all lies. All one huge elaborate lie after another. I do things like that sometimes. It entertains me."

Then he'd have to say, "I am your father!"

Either that, or they could take a Morrison-era Animal Man view on GR, and have him realize his entire existence is a comic book that doesn't make any sense anyway.

[Tien Long]

I guess I'm the only one who was quite shocked and quite excited over the revelation that Ghost Rider is an angel. Granted I only browsed through it, and didn't get the true meat of it. Nor am I versed in the extensive and convoluted history of Ghost Rider. Still, I think it's pretty cool. I agree with Way, why would a demon hunt and fight other demons, or the forces of darkness for that matter? Furthermore, alot of aspects of GR seem to fit this reveal. "Spirit of Vengeance," "Penance Stare," these appear to be very much associated with Christian doctrine.

In my mind, this adds a whole new level to the Ghost Rider mythos. He has rode the highway to hell, now he's probably going to storm the gates of heaven itself. Sounds totally awesome!

[Tien Long]

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=139735

Here's a link with Way's and Aaron's thoughts on the revelation.

[Michael P]

I guess I'm the only one who was quite shocked and quite excited over the revelation that Ghost Rider is an angel. Granted I only browsed through it, and didn't get the true meat of it. Nor am I versed in the extensive and convoluted history of Ghost Rider. Still, I think it's pretty cool. I agree with Way, why would a demon hunt and fight other demons, or the forces of darkness for that matter? Furthermore, alot of aspects of GR seem to fit this reveal. "Spirit of Vengeance," "Penance Stare," these appear to be very much associated with Christian doctrine.

In my mind, this adds a whole new level to the Ghost Rider mythos. He has rode the highway to hell, now he's probably going to storm the gates of heaven itself. Sounds totally awesome!

I didn't read the book, but after reading the interview with Way in Newsarama, I'm rather interested. Superhero comics always seem eager to bring the devil and Hell into things, but reluctant to involve God and heaven. Doesn't seem fair to me.

Done right, this could provide a direction for some interesting and exciting stories.

[overcomebyfumes]

Although the whole "pissed off angel looking to get revenge on God" thing has been done before. The last thing I want to see is Ghost Rider turning into a second rate re-hash of Preacher. Again, I mean.

I do wish they'd find a way to bring back Ms. Catmint tho.

pax.

[Cash Lone]

I think the revelation that GR is an angel is decent enough. A good writer knows how to make it work. I enjoyed other similiar "revelations" in comics: Spider-mans totem powers, Swamp thing is an elemental, The chief from Doom Patrol created accidents which made them into freaks.

The problem with GR is that he already he's already been mucked around with too much and too many crappy comics have come out under his name. The Greyson and Ennis minis were unreadable and Way isnt much better.

Hopefully, the new writer can turn this around. If Marvel was smart they would get J.M. Demattis on this book.

[roundman]

Every new writer on Ghost Rider is allowed to change the origin. It's in the contract - the "Noble Kale" clause.

There's a rumor that the next writer will change it to "was bitten by a radioactive ghost". I'm looking forward to that.

pax.



:D :D :D lol!

[Taskmaster]

I'd buy that.

About now that would be the only way to straighten out this crapfest

[Jack]

Every new writer on Ghost Rider is allowed to change the origin. It's in the contract - the "Noble Kale" clause.

There's a rumor that the next writer will change it to "was bitten by a radioactive ghost". I'm looking forward to that.

pax.
Am I the only one who thinks that would be the best origin ever?

[diablo7]

i liked the scene with ghost rider using a cellphone...he must have a good plan on the helltel network

[Joe Acro]

Jason Aaron will have to be simply brilliant to make this make sense given the continuity of the character.

Or he could simply retcon it all away as a bad dream or an alternate-reality happening, but I hope it doesn't come to that.

Really, though, this is that bad.

[overcomebyfumes]

Well, just look at how well being an angel worked for the Punisher.

Hopefully, they'll just not mention this again and get on to the satanic nurses. Woooo! Satanic nurses!

pax.

[matthewaos]

MEPHISTO: It's a lie wrapped in a blanket wrapped in a coccoon of another lie, lightly sauted with pinto beans and relish and left to simmer.
GHOST RIDER: What the Fisk are you ranting about? Are you on something?
MEPHISTO: Bah. You just have no taste. But if you think that's bad, you should see how I Fisked with Peter Parker.

Hehe, that's funny!! ;)

Then he'd have to say, "I am your father!"

Either that, or they could take a Morrison-era Animal Man view on GR, and have him realize his entire existence is a comic book that doesn't make any sense anyway.

This can be tied with Deadpool (and Purple man?) who have break (is this the correct word?) the fourth wall before. Hehe, plain awesome!!

Although a thing that I hate in comics is that they use something evil as a godly design. I mean I'm not a religious fanatic, but if satan exists and he is "evil", why god would feel revenge, hate, etc?

[matthewaos]

You know, I have this one question, as I am not a long time GR fan (but I always liked him): does the spirit of vengence know it's origin? I mean can Ghost Rider tell Johny Blaze if he is an angel or not? Sorry if it sounded stupid.

[bd2999]

Not bothered by it at all really. This last issue was probably one of the best of the new series (not to mention they had a figure of all the Ketch villans). To be honest the sort of half handed way the GR thing was done (with Kale saying they were lied to in Spider-man) was weak and I liked the angel thing more. I could see this as a way of linking the Blaze Rider and the Ketch Rider , but it messes with the Zarathos thing alot.

Not saying I don't like this change though. I mean demon and angel is a fine line. One is just a fallen version of another in the sense they are talking about it. ( Although there are hundreds of other beings called demons from other realms). I look forward to see what happens.

[Jake Gallows]

You know, I have this one question, as I am not a long time GR fan (but I always liked him): does the spirit of vengence know it's origin? I mean can Ghost Rider tell Johny Blaze if he is an angel or not? Sorry if it sounded stupid.

Not stupid at all. It's possible that nobody can say for sure. I always assumed when the actual series started, that the Spirit of Vengeance was in fact the demon Zarathos which was the demon, Johnny Blaze got possessed by in his first book. But now it seems, he is not Zarathos and i'm still confused about all this. Zarathos couldn't remember his own past, before Nightmare told him, how he ended as Mephisto's slave. Maybe it's very similar here ?

[matthewaos]

Yeah, it make sence, in a way. I was never able to follow on GR's origin, I can see why now. I think we should wait and see what happens.

[ukblueky]

I'm just hanging in there on this book waiting for the new team.They couldn't make it any worse than it's been.It would take a huge piece of crap to be worse than issues 6 and 7- in fact I don't think it's possible.

[DeadXMan]

ok if this is the case, then I have a question?
Where the Hell is Zarathos?

we now have a vary powerful and pissed off Demon, running around in the MU!

[Tobias Drake]

ok if this is the case, then I have a question?
Where the Hell is Zarathos?

we now have a vary powerful and pissed off Demon, running around in the MU!

And Doctor Strange is too busy fighting street thugs and making excuses for not rescuing falling planes to notice and/or care! Priorities, man!

[DeadXMan]

street thugs being lead by a different demon possessed two bit hoodlum
and he's not to happy with Johnny at the moment.

[drwho]

Zarathos supposedly died and was turned into a stone husk at the end of the Siege of Darkness storyline in the 90s.

[DeadXMan]

Zarathos supposedly died and was turned into a stone husk at the end of the Siege of Darkness storyline in the 90s.


However the angel entered Johnny instead of zarathos(we're talking marvel spotlight origin story here) meaning that wasn't the true zarathos
that was placed in the soul crystal or temped sider-man in SW or died in midnight sons

he's out there :eek:

[DeadXMan]

I thought there was no way to top Loeb's Wolverine run as most stupid and unnecessary retcon ever(yes this dose include OMD).

But Way has done it.

please call me when he's off the book.

[StoneGold]

I thought there was no way to top Loeb's Wolverine run as most stupid and unnecessary retcon ever(yes this dose include OMD).

But Way has done it.

please call me when he's off the book.

He's off the book. 18 was his last issue.

[Castiglione]

And the next writer and artist duo look brilliant.

I'm really looking forward to their run on the book.

[Taskmaster]

The more I think about this issue the worse it gets since:

A. We've already gotten a Ghost Rider as an angel reveal back in the last issues of the Dan Ketch run

B. If he was an angel all along then what was the deal with him being Zarathos and going psycho and all that jazz for most of Ghost Rider's history

Meh, bring on the new team please and let this all have been some major Mephisto gag

[TheGreatest]

And The Other Side as well. I'll be jumping on board Ghost Rider with Aaron's first issue. I actually tried this out when they started the new title, but got tired of Way's scripting leading to 3 minute reads. Loved the art, though.

Will

Tell me about it. Way's books were not far from those wordless issues Marvel put out a few years back.