Simon died.

[Solaris]

The male of my lady gouldian finch pair. He was acting normally, eating and drinking well, his eyes were clear and his tongue and feathers looked normal (other than he was starting a moult), and the room where their case is has normal temperature... and I found him dead a little while ago, under the feeder. Given that they're bred in captivity, there's a good chance it was something congenital, as in coming from a bird family that was bred too closely. Sigh. And yes, I'm really sad over this.

I was planning on burying him in the back yard, but after talking to the manager at Petsmart where I got him (I've only had him 2 weeks), it turns out they ask you to bring the body in, because they do autopsies on recently-purchased dead pets, to keep an eye on their breeder suppliers. So right now he's in a ziploc bag in the fridge *wince*, and on Monday they'll ship him to their specialists. At least I'll get to find out why he died.

He had the most beautiful song he'd do at times: a sort of liquid bell-tree sound.

We still have Chloe, and she seems to be in good health, though a bit distressed over Simon's absense (they pair bond, and they're social birds). I hope to get another male to keep her company... but I plan to try a local breeder, especially if it turns out to be something congenital with Simon. There's a good local breeder, and if she's willing to sell me a male (she doesn't sell many of her birds), then if he and Chloe have chicks, the chances for the chicks are better than if I got another male from the same breeder who supplied Simon and Chloe---breeding further out.

Sigh. He was always so chipper and cheerful every morning. I'm really going to miss him. Poor baby.

[Cam63]

I'm sorry, Sol'.

[Sabrinaset]

Maaaan, that sucks.

I didn't know Petsmart did autopsies on their birds though.

[Solaris]

Thanks, Cam. I'm not utterly devastated, but I am very saddened. Poor baby. I just wish there was *something* I could've done... but I did everything that you're supposed to do with them (and I've done a lot of research on them), and also had a healer friend take a look at him. She said that he didn't appear to be sick (showed no signs in feathers, tongue, or eyes), and that if he was eating/drinking well and behaving normally, then it was probably something congenital. I'll know for sure when they send the autopsy report.

I hadn't had him for very long, but I loved him. :(

[Solaris]

Maaaan, that sucks.

I didn't know Petsmart did autopsies on their birds though.

Me neither---but I'm glad they do.

Sigh. I "mama" every creature that comes into this house, whether it walks in on two legs or four, or has two legs and wings. It doesn't look like I failed him in any way... but I still wish that there was something I could've done (and you know that's what you're feeling, when you're holding a dead bird in your hands, and you find yourself trying to figure out how to do CPR on a little tiny bird).

[bert]

awwww. .

I'm so sorry Chris.

that's very interesting about the autopsies. . are you certain they will let you know the results?

and not that you'd WANT to "replace" him, but did Petsmart mention anything regarding a free or discounted new bird?

hugs,
bert

[Tyr]

I'm not a bird lover by nature, but I know what it feels like to lose a pet. I'm sorry for your loss Sol, the least I can do is give you one of these http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/hug005.gif

[heystacy]

Sorry Sol.

I am surprised Pesmart does autopsies as well. Wow.

[Tyr]

Sorry Sol.

I am surprised Pesmart does autopsies as well. Wow.

Yeah, I didn't know they did that either, and I worked there for three months. But then Birds weren't really my department.

[heystacy]

Yeah, I didn't know they did that either, and I worked there for two months. But then Birds weren't really my department.

Which department did you work in?

I used to my my cat's supplies from them, and used their groomig services for my cat. Max didn't like the grooming part. LOL

[Crowley]

my sympathies.

[Alex L]

Sorry to hear that.

http://www.vbaexpress.com/forum/images/smilies/hug.gif

[Solaris]

awwww. .

I'm so sorry Chris.

that's very interesting about the autopsies. . are you certain they will let you know the results?

and not that you'd WANT to "replace" him, but did Petsmart mention anything regarding a free or discounted new bird?

hugs,
bert

We're within the time frame, so they're giving me a refund on him (they offered either that or to replace him---I chose the former, so I could get a male from a different breeder; the manager understands that completely.

And if I understand it correctly, it's not just birds, its any pet they sell (or at least most of 'em). This is, of course, when a purchased pet dies within 2 weeks of the purchase. It makes sense for them to do an autopsy...

1. They're a chain all over the U.S., so they can afford to keep someone on staff at corporate to handle autopsies---and, since they *are* all over the U.S., it's quite possible that this person gets enough subjects to work on to make it worth having them on staff. (Though, they probably have other medical-related duties as well.)

2. It's quality control. They purchase the pets (fish, birds, reptiles, and rodents) from breeders. If a breeder has poor practices, they need to know---because having to replace a pet to the consumer costs them money.

3. Last, and hopefully not least, it's the humane thing to do. If a breeder does an avian, piscine, rodential, or reptilian version of a "puppy mill," they certainly want to know about it. Also, a breeder might not be aware that their population has become too inbred... or, they might not care. Either way, the corporation needs to know; and perhaps in rare cases, may need to report the breeder to some local authority. And, some owners will want to know why their new pet died, as I do; so it's good for the customer as well.

The birds came with a vet certification saying that the vet had inspected them for disease, etc. before they were shipped to the store (from, I would guess, a central collection point). These are my first two birds, so I know Simon didn't get any illness from other birds *I* own. While it's possible an animal might make it through the vet inspection with a disease undetected, I don't think it's very likely---but, that's another reason for them to do an autopsy: if the bird was sick, then the vet missed it. Also, if he was sick, they need to check other birds, both ones from the breeder, but also any birds that were kept in the same store cage as him. When I bought them, there were about 8-12 other finches in there with them, of about 5 different breeds. So if Simon was sick, he either came in there with it, or maybe caught it from one of *those* birds---either way, it means they need to check breeder populations, etc.

However, given that he looked and acted healthy, was eating and drinking quite well, was active, and showed no outward signs of illness... and then just dropped dead... it was probably something congenital. They've been eating the same nutrimix birdfeed for the past two weeks (and it's the same type they were eating in the store), ditto for the other seed they get, and while I gave them a little lettuce, spinach, and seedless white grapes from time to time, those fresh foods were all very well washed and chopped fine---and both the store and the websites I've gone to say that the birds need these kinds of fresh foods, as well as the storebought seed. (And they only got the spinach twice or less a week---it's one of those "a little is good, too much is bad" kind of foods.)

Anyway, when you eliminate all environmental factors, that leaves illness or something congenital... and he looked and acted healthy as a horse. Sigh.

[Bo Bo]

Sorry to hear about that.

About getting another male, sounds like a good idea, although while I don't know much about gouldfinch birds, we have love birds and sometimes they don't accept new ones sharing their cage. So just keep an eye out if/when you do get another bird.

[Solaris]

Sorry to hear about that.

About getting another male, sounds like a good idea, although while I don't know much about gouldfinch birds, we have love birds and sometimes they don't accept new ones sharing their cage. So just keep an eye out if/when you do get another bird.


Good advice. :)

I plan on keeping them in separate cages set side by side for a while, to see how they get along. But most finches *are* very social, and prefer to have at least one other bird (if not a whole flock) to interact with. :)

[Reverend Smooth]

I lost a pair of gouldians last year like that, too, both from the same breeder. Normal one day, keeled over the next.

I assume something congenital, and possibly related to the colder winter evenings. The chick at the store from where we bought them also lost hers within a few weeks that mine died.

Getting a new male should be ok. Gouldians are monogamous and it does take time for a pair to hook up, but they're not like lovebirds.

Sometimes it doesn't work out (I breed finches on an amateur basis, mostly zebras) but that's usually the exception, not the rule. I've only had one female finch out of... well, a heck of a lot, anyway, ever reject a male finch-- in fact, the only one she wanted was her brother. x.x So to the pet store she went.

[Solaris]

I lost a pair of gouldians last year like that, too, both from the same breeder. Normal one day, keeled over the next.

I assume something congenital, and possibly related to the colder winter evenings. The chick at the store from where we bought them also lost hers within a few weeks that mine died.

Getting a new male should be ok. Gouldians are monogamous and it does take time for a pair to hook up, but they're not like lovebirds.

Sometimes it doesn't work out (I breed finches on an amateur basis, mostly zebras) but that's usually the exception, not the rule. I've only had one female finch out of... well, a heck of a lot, anyway, ever reject a male finch-- in fact, the only one she wanted was her brother. x.x So to the pet store she went.

I've got a space heater near the cage that's kept the area warm (it's in the sunroom on a table out of dog-reach---but all that single-paned glass means colder air at night; hence, the heater). The heater is temperature controlled, and has a digital readout, so I know what the temp is in the area. BUT, there's a lady down here who's been breeding for years (she runs the Lady Goudian Finch website), and her birds have become acclimated to most of the temps down here---if you haven't seen the site, google it; it's worth the read.

I strongly suspect that it's inbreeding. And, given the large numbers of birds a breeder probably has, it probably makes it more difficult to keep track of who's with who, or who's who's parent/grandparent, etc. And, some breeders may not be good about bringing in new stock to help the genetics... or, may always *get* that stock from the same place---so that eventually, you still end up with too many recessives coming out as dominants.

If the breeders aren't careful (given the fact that the birds can do 2-3 layings per year), they may end up with a cheetah-type situation, where all the ones in captivity are closely enough alike, genetic-wise, to be siblings.

[Reverend Smooth]

Yeah. So far as I know, none of the birds I breed are related. I keep the amount low, to keep track of who's who. I'd band if I bred more of them.

[sunshinegirl]

sorry to hear that, solaris. ((hugs))

[Lady_Darkchylde]

My thoughts and prayers are with you!

[Major Comma]

my condolonces.
Good luck with getting another male.

[Solaris]

Thanks, guys.

I'm worried about Chloe. She's off her feed a good bit (eating very little, so far as I can tell) and mainly just sitting on a perch. I keep visiting with her, and she still chirps at me some... but I'm afraid she's pining for Simon. :(

[Darediva]

Sorry to hear about Simon. Hope things work out with Chloe.

[sunshinegirl]

Thanks, guys.

I'm worried about Chloe. She's off her feed a good bit (eating very little, so far as I can tell) and mainly just sitting on a perch. I keep visiting with her, and she still chirps at me some... but I'm afraid she's pining for Simon. :(

that's so sad. hopefully you're able to get her a mate, and she's just lonely and not sick like simon. :(

[Solaris]

Well I went and picked up a Society Finch today to keep her company (thankfully, they don't cost much). We've named it Theodosia (Thea, for short), and I *think* it's a female. The person on duty didn't know, but going by the usual standard that a female is more drab than the male (and often smaller), I think it's a girl. :D

Chloe perked up as soon as I put Thea in the cage with her. Thea, on the other hand, was pretty freaked by being in a new place, without all the other birds. At first she was just sitting in the bottom of the cage, but since then I've caught sight of her at both the food and the water dishes... so hopefully, she's adjusting. (I picked what I hope is a female, because when I get the new male Gouldian, I'm hoping he'll not be stressed or aggressive toward a female of another species. Gouldians can be a bit aggressive at times towards other birds, especially if they're in mating/nesting mode.)

Many breeders keep Society Finches and Gouldians together. Sometimes the Society's will even foster chicks from Gouldians. Here's hoping Thea and Chloe get along okay, and cheer each other up. *crosses fingers*