30 Years of DC Comics, and I Can't Keep Up with Coutdown...

[stamen]

I'm just lost. The comic needs cliff notes or something. It's a 30 page cyclone every week and every tidbit of the DCU just keeps whirling around smashing everything in sight. I'm not saying I haven't enjoyed it in places, I have really enjoyed some things. But jeez, I have absolutely no idea what I am enjoying...

I feel like Eric Idle being beaten with a whip, and turning around to my captor to say, "Aww, you're not fun anymore."

[Chris Hansbrough]

I'm just lost. The comic needs cliff notes or something. It's a 30 page cyclone every week and every tidbit of the DCU just keeps whirling around smashing everything in sight. I'm not saying I haven't enjoyed it in places, I have really enjoyed some things. But jeez, I have absolutely no idea what I am enjoying...

I feel like Eric Idle being beaten with a whip, and turning around to my captor to say, "Aww, you're not fun anymore."

people don't want editors notes. they clog up the page and interfere with the story.

yep...that's why a fuckton of poeple have been asking for em....

but no....

you don't want editors notes....that would interfere with the understanding of the story :rolleyes:

it's a trainwreck week after week

[Jack Zodiac]

But jeez, I have absolutely no idea what I am enjoying...

Maybe that's why people keep buying it. They're confused. Because I can't see how anyone could enjoy that shit week after week. It has maybe one good snippet of a story in it every month, but the rest is unreadable filth. At least 52 had something worthwhile in it every single week.

[heystacy]

Damn. That bad? I gave up on 52 and thought Countdown was more of the same, but appears to be worse. :(

How does this pass the litmus test of what's a good standard of publishing and reading?

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I actually gave a review of Countdown in my link.... the issues I had picked up the last time I was in my LCS.

[The Beast Of Yucca Flats]

Paul, please... stick to Detective. I know it's good to grow & try new things; but when you try to play "Les Architectes," I worry about you.

[TCJohnson]

Damn. That bad? I gave up on 52 and thought Countdown was more of the same, but appears to be worse. :(

How does this pass the litmus test of what's a good standard of publishing and reading?

I actually ending up enjoyi9ng 52. But Countdown? It is a mess.

[Pink Bat Max]

I get mild enjoyment from it.



No. Seriously.

[Michael P]

Here's all you need to understand Countdown, in one sentence:

Countdown is a fucking terrible comic.

[KevinTBrown]

Actually, I'm enjoying Countdown a lot more than 52. IMO, 52 let us all down as fans because it did not deliver what was promised, by showing us what occurred during the "missing year" in the DCU. Like how did Commissioner Gordon get his job back? I was extremely disappointed.

Countdown so far has been a hell of a rollercoaster ride. It's been good and bad, but mainly good. They story has always been entertaining, the artwork a little bit on the inconsistant side of things.

Overall, Countdown is doing as promised, 52 did not.

[hangmanjury]

Actually, I'm enjoying Countdown a lot more than 52. IMO, 52 let us all down as fans because it did not deliver what was promised, by showing us what occurred during the "missing year" in the DCU. Like how did Commissioner Gordon get his job back? I was extremely disappointed.

Countdown so far has been a hell of a rollercoaster ride. It's been good and bad, but mainly good. They story has always been entertaining, the artwork a little bit on the inconsistant side of things.

Overall, Countdown is doing as promised, 52 did not.
But as a story itself, 52 was good. No, it did not deliver on what was promised, but to be honest, I don't think what was promised would have made a good story.

Countdown? I scan it every week, and I follow what's going on even while just scanning it, but good lord, did it bore me for the first 20 weeks, and nothing I've seen has made it worth buying again.

It was, however, nice to see Ron Lim's art again.

[Jack Zodiac]

Actually, I'm enjoying Countdown a lot more than 52. IMO, 52 let us all down as fans because it did not deliver what was promised, by showing us what occurred during the "missing year" in the DCU. Like how did Commissioner Gordon get his job back? I was extremely disappointed.

Countdown so far has been a hell of a rollercoaster ride. It's been good and bad, but mainly good. They story has always been entertaining, the artwork a little bit on the inconsistant side of things.

Overall, Countdown is doing as promised, 52 did not.

What did they promise Countdown would do? I believe the phrase "continuity spine" was thrown about for a while there, but it took a bullet faster than you could've said "Killing Joke."

[Sabrinaset]

I get mild enjoyment from it.

No. Seriously.

I do too. But that's only because I roll the comic up real tight and use it as a dildo.

[Jack Zodiac]

I don't even see how you could get mild enjoyment out of that. Wasn't Granny Goodness on this week's cover? Call me kooky, but I don't think I'd be able to stick Granny's likeness in my vagina, had I a vagina. Not without thinking of Ed Asner's voice acting from the cartoon, and that's a total mood killer.

You could roll it up to snort a mountain of blow and still not get mild enjoyment out of it.

[Sabrinaset]

Well, I usually use this cover.

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/a/a3/Countdown_36cov.jpg

[Jack Zodiac]

Ah, some klassy Marvel Vag! Man, I love Countdown!

[SUPERECWFAN1]

When Countdown started it was a pretty good fun read from 51#-to mid 30's. Then it became an excercise in darkness . From Mary Marvel drowning people , to her getting off on hurting others. Then you had Superman Prime brutally stab and kill another Superman. Fry a pregnet Lois Lane and butcher everyone.

If JeffreyWKramer read the latest Countdown he'd really have some negative summations brought up in the writing of these characters becoming so horrid , they defy your expectations.

52# was better , had 4 talented writers and didn't need to resort to murder and bloodshed on a level that turns you off.

[heystacy]

I actually ending up enjoyi9ng 52. But Countdown? It is a mess.

From what I did read, 52 wasn't worth investing time in. What were some of the things you did like in 52, besides Booster Gold. ;)

[SUPERECWFAN1]

From what I did read, 52 wasn't worth investing time in. What were some of the things you did like in 52, besides Booster Gold. ;)

The Ralph Dinby plot , the fun Island storyline with Morrow and the scientists , plus we saw the Black Adam storyline. It was all very easy to follow in 52#.

[heystacy]

The Ralph Dinby plot , the fun Island storyline with Morrow and the scientists , plus we saw the Black Adam storyline. It was all very easy to follow in 52#.

At least you got that far to read it. :cool:

[TCJohnson]

From what I did read, 52 wasn't worth investing time in. What were some of the things you did like in 52, besides Booster Gold. ;)

I wasn't thrilled by the Black Adam plot, or the Question plot...or Batwoman. I liked the Steel story line. I really liked the Ralph Dibny, Animal Man story line. I really liked the mad scientists on the Island. And yes, there is also the Booster Gold story line. He was a very siginificant part of 52.

[heystacy]

I wasn't thrilled by the Black Adam plot, or the Question plot...or Batwoman. I liked the Steel story line. I really liked the Ralph Dibny, Animal Man story line. I really liked the mad scientists on the Island. And yes, there is also the Booster Gold story line. He was a very siginificant part of 52.

Didn't most of the new characters introduced in 52 die?

[Jack Zodiac]

From what I did read, 52 wasn't worth investing time in. What were some of the things you did like in 52, besides Booster Gold. ;)

What I liked about 52 was that each of the stories were independent, there wasn't any allusion to them tying together somehow in some ridiculous and unnecessary way, and most of them opened up the DCU for a plethora of new story ideas. Doc Magnus and the Metal Men on Oolong Island with a whole fuckin' gang of mad scientists, Lex Luthor unlocking the metagene and selling powers to kids, the Crime Bible and the conspiracies and prophecies behind it, Booster Gold and Rip Hunter unlocking the secrets of the multiverse and the mystery of the megaverse, and albeit briefly, Black Adam and the Black Marvel Family, the first honest to god fun idea involving the Captain Marvel franchise in forever until Jeff Smith's Monster Society came out.

You had all of that in 52 and all of it could've kept driving the DCU with new ideas for years and years. It was construction. After the devastation of Infinite Crisis, it was a huge, massive anthology of stories that looked like it was building all of these possibilities for the universe and the multiverse.

And Countdown, which promised to be a continuity spine for the DCU, and to interconnect their stories leading up to something huge for Final Crisis has been one, big, contrived mess of destruction and wasted opportunities. And the most depressing part of all is Paul Dini, who I've never had a lick of negative criticism for, is the mastermind behind it all, and it really shouldn't suck as bad as it does. It even has some great writers involved, like Gray and McKeever, but it's still just a mess. An unreadable mess.

[Jack Zodiac]

Didn't most of the new characters introduced in 52 die?

Batwoman, Renee as the new Question, Supernova, Infinity Inc. (well, I don't know about them, because I haven't been reading the new series), Doc Magnus and the Metal Men and all the crazy scientists from Oolong Island, the Great Ten...

Nope, almost all of the new ideas and characters from 52 survived 52 except the Black Marvel Family, which is a fuckin' shame, and are still around, if underused, today.

[Pink Bat Max]

I do too. But that's only because I roll the comic up real tight and use it as a dildo.

to which I say.....

...eew.

Roll a condom over it first, at the very least! Otherwise, you know. Papercuts.

[Jack Zodiac]

That's right, Sabrina. When you stick a crappy comic book in your vagina, you're not just sticking that crappy comic book in your vagina, you're sticking every crappy comic book that crappy comic book's slept with in your vagina, too. So be safe!

*cue PSA music*

[Pink Bat Max]

That's right, Sabrina. When you stick a crappy comic book in your vagina, you're not just sticking that crappy comic book in your vagina, you're sticking every crappy comic book that crappy comic book's slept with in your vagina, too. So be safe!

*cue PSA music*

Also, it pays to make sure that the ink is non-toxic and won't run.....

[Gladiaria_Alata]

Also, it pays to make sure that the ink is non-toxic and won't run.....

Indeed, you wouldn't want crappy comic poisoning!

[Jack Zodiac]

Although...

If Bree used an old Liefeld comic as a dildo and caught "crappy comic" from it, she might get the novelty-sized jugs she's always wanted! :D Her wrists and ankles and knees would all but disappear of course, and her ribs would poke out like bike spokes, but hey, huge cans!

[the4thpip]

Although...

If Bree used an old Liefeld comic as a dildo and caught "crappy comic" from it, she might get the novelty-sized jugs she's always wanted! :D Her wrists and ankles and knees would all but disappear of course, and her ribs would poke out like bike spokes, but hey, huge cans!

There's gotta be an easier way. :(

[TCJohnson]

Didn't most of the new characters introduced in 52 die?

Dude, you know how I am about killing off characters....shoud be used very sparingly. If all of them died, I would not be saying I liked it.

I did not like 52 at first. I dropped it at one point, but after talking to Waid at a convention I picked it back up...and glad I did.

[Sabrinaset]

Although...

If Bree used an old Liefeld comic as a dildo and caught "crappy comic" from it, she might get the novelty-sized jugs she's always wanted! :D Her wrists and ankles and knees would all but disappear of course, and her ribs would poke out like bike spokes, but hey, huge cans!

See, that's why I usually go with a Frank Cho book. Now, sure, I've used Mighty Avengers in the past .... the best part is, with Bendis' decompression, it lasts at least ten times longer than if I used, say, a comic by Busiek!

[Jack Zodiac]

Yeah, but with Kurt you get some real depth and incredible pacing. Plus his beard is hot. :D That's why his and Pérez's Avengers is the best, because of George's attention to detail and Busiek's unmatchable skills. There's a comic book nerd double team! Awwwwwwww, yeah.

[LtMarvel]

52 succeeded by giving a wonderful, exciting line of stories. Beginning, middle, and end. (Which have spawned some good sequels, too!)

Countdown failed by giving us starts and then spinning the stories off. Mystery of New Gods serial killer? Continued in Death of New Gods. Where are the villians going? Check out Salvation Run. Or the Search for Ray Palmer: (Elseworld title). Add the occasional storyline chapter introduced elsewhere (GA/BC wedding events, Amazon plots) and continued elsewhere, and you have much more of a chaotic mess. (Although the Countdown cover to the bachelorette party was much more fun than any other covers...)

52 was a brilliant cross over event. Countdown, so far, not so much.

[heystacy]

Batwoman, Renee as the new Question, Supernova, Infinity Inc. (well, I don't know about them, because I haven't been reading the new series), Doc Magnus and the Metal Men and all the crazy scientists from Oolong Island, the Great Ten...

Nope, almost all of the new ideas and characters from 52 survived 52 except the Black Marvel Family, which is a fuckin' shame, and are still around, if underused, today.

Sounds like fun,, but I am happy I missed it. If we get it as a trade i would gladly read it. e just got a new slew of manga and some trades, so hopefully I will see them on the shelves.

[heystacy]

Dude, you know how I am about killing off characters....shoud be used very sparingly. If all of them died, I would not be saying I liked it.

I did not like 52 at first. I dropped it at one point, but after talking to Waid at a convention I picked it back up...and glad I did.

I remember you saying you dropped 52. When Booster "died," right?

Comic book death is so OTT these days. :(

[Alex L]

Yeah, but with Kurt you get some real depth and incredible pacing. Plus his beard is hot. :D That's why his and Pérez's Avengers is the best, because of George's attention to detail and Busiek's unmatchable skills. There's a comic book nerd double team! Awwwwwwww, yeah.

Yep... 'cuz I'm sure Bree wants a big ol' sexy beard.

[Solaris]

Although...

If Bree used an old Liefeld comic as a dildo and caught "crappy comic" from it, she might get the novelty-sized jugs she's always wanted! :D Her wrists and ankles and knees would all but disappear of course, and her ribs would poke out like bike spokes, but hey, huge cans!

I thought it was called "The Clap," not "The Crap."

Though after reading some of the stuff said here about how various characters have gone into wholesale idiocy, cruelty, and even psychopathy... I'm SO glad I'm not reading this series.

[berk]

I haven't read either 52 or Countdown, though I've glanced at both from time to time in the comic shop. I wasn't interested enough in the premise of either and probably wouldn't have known enough about the DCU to follow them anyway.

BUT, I do love the idea of a weekly comic, and I hope they keep doing them until they come up with one I can read. Let Morrison or somebody write a year's worth in advance, keep it with a relatively limited group of characters, or a single concept, not necessarily DCU related. That I'd like to see.

[LtMarvel]

I think they've done that book already.

[Gilda Dent]

When Countdown started it was a pretty good fun read from 51#-to mid 30's. Then it became an excercise in darkness . From Mary Marvel drowning people , to her getting off on hurting others. Then you had Superman Prime brutally stab and kill another Superman. Fry a pregnet Lois Lane and butcher everyone.

Ah, I am so glad I'm not reading this. I'm enjoying comics so much more since I stopped buying new ones.

[stealthwise]

Sounds like fun,, but I am happy I missed it. If we get it as a trade i would gladly read it. e just got a new slew of manga and some trades, so hopefully I will see them on the shelves.

I think there are three trades out, there's at least two of them anyways.

[Draconomicon]

I actually ending up enjoyi9ng 52. But Countdown? It is a mess.

52 started out slow but caught momentum, it got interesting, you cared about the stories.
Countdown?
One. Utter. Mess.
Lets ignore the fact that 26 weeks long -nothing- happened, literally, the stories just trotted on, lets ignore the fact that the stories which should happen IN the book suddenly have to appear in 12 dozen different Minis (Countdown to adventure, Arena, Countdown to mystery, etc) plus its cross referencing dozens of REGULAR books which you need to read to understand whats going on and its just plain disaster.

The worst time for that was during Amazons Attack, where Countdown read like an index book of "What you should buy" instead of a comic on its own.

[Draconomicon]

52 succeeded by giving a wonderful, exciting line of stories. Beginning, middle, and end. (Which have spawned some good sequels, too!)

Countdown failed by giving us starts and then spinning the stories off. Mystery of New Gods serial killer? Continued in Death of New Gods. Where are the villians going? Check out Salvation Run. Or the Search for Ray Palmer: (Elseworld title). Add the occasional storyline chapter introduced elsewhere (GA/BC wedding events, Amazon plots) and continued elsewhere, and you have much more of a chaotic mess. (Although the Countdown cover to the bachelorette party was much more fun than any other covers...)

52 was a brilliant cross over event. Countdown, so far, not so much.

Damn, should have read the full thread first.
Im totally in agreement with Lt.Marvel.
That is what is happening here.
They started a half dozen storylines in Countdown, then continued them in Minis instead of the mainbook and took some NEW stories up for it, or merely reflect to what happens in the Minis now and then, in far too little detail to let you just keep up with the countdown main book.

[stamen]

The Ralph Dinby plot

That was my favorite thing in 52. Pretty great storytelling.