Superman

[IRONY...]

I understand the guy has lost a lot of super-friends during the years but I do not believe that the Post-COIE Supes has suffered so much in personal level .

I understand that he is tragic already since he is an orphan alien from a destroyed planet...But okay this is it...

I am not sure if you get my point...I am saying that maybe it is time to bring him on his edge and also make him his own man .

In three words...Lois should die...(I am not even thinking "movie" son Chris Kent exists)

[Zombie Superman]

What are you rambling on about?!

Try some original ideas.

Useless deaths are proof the absence of creative ability.

Z\S/

[Iroquois]

When the hell did it become a rule that heroes have to suffer to be heroes?

[DonC]

In three words...Lois should die...


How about Pa Kent instead?

[fightgar]

i dont think that would go well with people...i could see that sending him into a blind rage and turn him into something like Superman/boy Prime

[kane]

When the hell did it become a rule that heroes have to suffer to be heroes?

since Peter Parker lost uncle Ben?

[The Joker]

I'll pass on Lois getting killed, thanks. Mainly because, it wouldnt stick.

[IRONY...]

since Peter Parker lost uncle Ben?

:D nice point...

It's not about original ideas and Lois was just an example...

I am just saying that Superman is winning every battle without casualties and he is all fine.

There is no drama in the character...

[MaxofSteel]

There is no drama in the character...

And that's precisely what sets him apart from all the other angsty heroes in the biz. It's what makes him so great and idealistic.

Tragedies do happen to him. The only thing is these tragedies never really alter his personality in the long run.

[Lord Trigon]

i dont think that would go well with people...i could see that sending him into a blind rage and turn him into something like Superman/boy Prime
yeah he couldn't take it. that's the one person he couldn't have die. but if I would make him like batman hum...has anyone ever switched the characters around.

[Lord of Denial]

yeah he couldn't take it. that's the one person he couldn't have die. but if I would make him like batman hum...has anyone ever switched the characters around.

He thought Manchester Black killed Lois and he still would not cross that line and kill. He would be devastated but going Superman Prime he would not.

[Iroquois]

since Peter Parker lost uncle Ben?
Pfft, damn punk. I knew he'd be the death of us all one day. Anyone else would have gotten cancer from a radioactive spider, but noooo, he got superpowers.

I am just saying that Superman is winning every battle without casualties and he is all fine.


Superman doesn't get nearly enough credit for all the crap he's taking in a day. Guy deals with crimes, murders. bloodshed and death on regular basis. They might not show it, because the comics have too little space to elaborate on anything beyond super-villains these days, but there is no way that every day is a total success. Something will go wrong, he won't make it in time to one rescue or he'll have to play god and decide between tragedies to avert. What do you think that does to a guy who's split in his role as a protector and his immense need to fit in with those he sees laying each other's corpses in his way every day?

Seriously, just because he's wearing a bright suit, he doesn't go around all day handing out helion-filled baloons.

[Froggy]

And that's precisely what sets him apart from all the other angsty heroes in the biz. It's what makes him so great and idealistic.

Tragedies do happen to him. The only thing is these tragedies never really alter his personality in the long run. good stuff max, for real

[Darth Joker]

I understand the guy has lost a lot of super-friends during the years but I do not believe that the Post-COIE Supes has suffered so much in personal level .

I understand that he is tragic already since he is an orphan alien from a destroyed planet...But okay this is it...

I am not sure if you get my point...I am saying that maybe it is time to bring him on his edge and also make him his own man .

In three words...Lois should die...(I am not even thinking "movie" son Chris Kent exists)

It's been done.

In Kingdom Come.

In the continuity of Kingdom Come, Lois Lane was killed by the Joker. The Joker was then killed by Gog, IIRC (it may have been Magog). Superman was actually upset with Gog for doing that, and the two had a big public philosophical spat. Gog/Magog won, and Supes was so depressed over it (and the death of Lois) that he went into retirement for decades.

I felt that Kingdom Come did a pretty good job of exploring Superman's likely angsty reaction to Lois' death, and the eventual romance with Wonder Woman that would result from it.

I don't think that DC main continuity could top it.

Also, Superman is one of those characters that personal tragedy doesn't really affect that much beyond a temprary period of great mourning. Again, the Joker killed his wife (in Kingdom Come), and Gog/Magog killed Joker (in part as a reaction to that killing), and Superman was mad at Gog/Magog for killing his wife's killer and world's worst serial killer . And no, it wasn't because Supes wanted to be the one to kill the Joker himself, but because he believes that firmly in the "no killing" moral code.

Superman's character is one that's so ironclad that tragedy can't phase it, and hence his character negates the entire purpose for throwing in a personal tragedy (to put the character on edge, and darker, and more willing to maim/kill).

[IRONY...]

He thought Manchester Black killed Lois and he still would not cross that line and kill. He would be devastated but going Superman Prime he would not.

He would never cross the line...

[Lord Trigon]

is everyone forgetting the whole maxwell lord thing?

[Lord of Denial]

is everyone forgetting the whole maxwell lord thing?

Do you mean where Lord used his mental powers to breakdown Superman's defense over the course of years and took control of him and make him think both Batman and Wonder Woman where two of his mortal enemies?

[Lord Trigon]

how was this shown to have happen over years. I don't remember reading about that.

[Zacharius]

There is no drama in the character...

I agree.

http://www.mania.com/38621.html

The Inability to Lose: I'd start this one off by asking, "How many other characters can you name who have come back from the dead?" But let's be fair: this is comics, where death is but a revolving door. Still, if we think about it, even when Supes has lost, he turns out not to have lost at all. Part of the thrill of watching a hero fight is the possibility that maybe, just maybe, this will be the one time that they're not strong enough, or fast enough, or smart enough. When you've got super-strength, super-speed, and super-intelligence, though, where's the suspense? He can't have his back broken like Batman; he can't go mad like Hal Jordan (and even if he does, it's more of a marketing ploy than the destruction of a major character; and even when his worst enemies find out his secret identity, they conveniently have their memories erased of the fact). Even personal, emotional loss - about the only loss that Superman can suffer - simply isn't on the cards: Lois Lane's "death" last year showed that much. There's simply no chance he'll lose, and therefore there's simply no narrative tension.

Add to all this the fact that we know Superman will never cross the line and take a life (even though Batman constantly rides that line), that he's never going to turn evil (even briefly), that he's never going to do anything morally dubious in the cause of good, that he's never even going to let his editor's bad choice in fashion statements get him down (blue and white costume, anyone?), and you get a hero who's grossly over-powered, narratively boring - and, to use Cameron's word, "lame." How'd this guy last for over 60 years, anyway?

[666MasterOfPuppets]

I agree.

http://www.mania.com/38621.html

The writer of this article simply shows his lack of understanding for the character. Not every single Superhero has to be ridden by guilt and angst, like Spidey, Wolvie or even Bats.

This is SUPERMAN, for Rao's sake. He's not THE WORLD'S GREATEST SUPERHERO because he is just like almost every other Superhero out there. To put it simply, SUPERMAN is beyond what other Superheroes can even aspire to be. He's, whether people like it or not, a christ-like figure of hope, inspiration, and good.

Superman never loses, sure. And he never will, due to the fact that he's THE inspiration for the other heroes, and even for ourselves. He can't afford to lose. He's there to inspire us, and to tell us that even against the worst of circumstances, we can achieve success.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

how was this shown to have happen over years. I don't remember reading about that.

It wasn't, as far as I can tell.

[Lord of Denial]

It wasn't, as far as I can tell.

Well you better tell the folks in rumbles that.

We talk about it often when dealing with someone that might be able to control Superman and the Lord feat is always referred to as taking him years to accomplish.

I reallu don't remember what happened exactly myself so I go with what they say and all most everyone says it took years.

[Slaughter]

He would never cross the line...

Superman already crossed the line once when he killed the Pocket Dimension Zod and the other two criminals who just killed the Pocket Universe's Earth. The total anihilation of the Pocket Universe and his cold execution of the Three Criminals is one of the biggest mistakes Superman ever commited. The guilty devastated Superman to the point of near insanity. That is why he would never cross the line again.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Well you better tell the folks in rumbles that.

We talk about it often when dealing with someone that might be able to control Superman and the Lord feat is always referred to as taking him years to accomplish.

I reallu don't remember what happened exactly myself so I go with what they say and all most everyone says it took years.

Well, Maxwell Lord did say that it took him years to mind-control Superman (during the Sacrifice storyarc, I believe). How did he do it, i.e. the process, is what was never shown, and what I referred to.

[Lord of Denial]

Well, Maxwell Lord did say that it took him years to mind-control Superman (during the Sacrifice storyarc, I believe). How did he do it, i.e. the process, is what was never shown, and what I referred to.

My bad.

I thought you meant it never happened period.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Worry not. Now that we brought that up, what do you think of it?