Up the Power of the Final Superman

[Captain Smith]

However, all the crisises end up, there will a central Superman version. Kal-l, KC, Prime, etc. all will get killed or shuttled off to some alternate holding pen.

It's time for the major Supes variant to be more powerful than the rest of the dudes on Earth. No being second fiddle to J'onn, etc. No being significantly slower than a Flash. Maybe photo finish slower but that's it.

He should be able to fly between stars as easily as a GL without holding his breath. He should not be kicked in the noggin by some superhyped hillbilly. Luthor must have an incredible plot to take him, not some stupid knife and power loss (what an original idea).

Get the idea - let's get rid of the current wussy and go more to a Silver Age level with some good story lines.

[Joe-Dono]

I am afraid I am going to have to disagree with you, I am happy with the current power level of Superman, its nice he is not the most powerful person in the DCU.

[MythicBrawn]

I definitely don't think he needs to be the most powerful. Flash should retain the fastest man in the DCU. And, I'm not talking photo-finish either. However, Superman can keep the strongest title.

[IRONY...]

Superman should get all powerful and gradually upgrade his powers like for example stop being vulnerble to magic or kryptonite .

Lets have him get beaten only by pure , brute Doomsday-like strength.

He should be something like a special JLA member who like Sentry comes only for serious foes and beat the h.... out of them .

This is my Superman...

[Iroquois]

I'll go with the -so far- majority. I don't want him de-powered to the rediculous levels of, say, TAS Superman, but at his current power levels (or even a little below) is fine. Besides, I've always been of the opinion that he should start off powerful, but limited and reach a peak at some point in his life, per KC Superman. That "super-infant-that-can-juggle-nurses" thing never sat well with me.

[Sean Whitmore]

He's fine as is.

I can't think of one good reason to increase his powers other than to give the Rumblers more fodder for their "discussions".


SEAN

[Joe Acro]

No being second fiddle to J'onn, etc.Not currently, if ever, a problem.

No being significantly slower than a Flash. Maybe photo finish slower but that's it.He's slower than the Flash? I must've missed the memo.

He should be able to fly between stars as easily as a GL without holding his breath.He was able to fly from Earth to Bizarro World (which has a different star) by himself. Not a problem.

He should not be kicked in the noggin by some superhyped hillbilly.Who now?

Luthor must have an incredible plot to take him, not some stupid knife and power loss (what an original idea). I'm thinking that they kinda sorta have that covered in Justice League. And the Up, Up, and Away arc was sort of like that, except he wasn't planning on Superman. So, this might not be a problem.

Get the idea - let's get rid of the current wussy and go more to a Silver Age level with some good story lines.No, I don't get the idea. Superman isn't a wuss. He's already too powerful for my liking.

[Sean Whitmore]

He's slower than the Flash? I must've missed the memo.

Oh, he's way slower. It was a close match back when Wally was at his slowest, but since the Speed Force, it's not even a contest anymore.

Which is as it should be, I think. You have a guy whose sole power is running fast, you can't make him the second-fastest guy in the world. That'd be just cruel.


SEAN

[Lord of Denial]

I don't see a need to make him more powerful.

I like the fact that they have lessened Kryptonites effects on him, I think he has to many weaknesses when compared to say Captain Marvel.

[Joe Acro]

Oh, he's way slower. It was a close match back when Wally was at his slowest, but since the Speed Force, it's not even a contest anymore.

Which is as it should be, I think. You have a guy whose sole power is running fast, you can't make him the second-fastest guy in the world. That'd be just cruel.


SEAN
When Wally had the Spectre have everyone not remember his identity, he ran from the justice League when they confronted him. Supes was able to keep up.

When Lois was shot at in the Middle East, Superman was able to get there just after the bullet hit her.

Plus, there's that whole Bizarro World thing again. That had to've been a quick trip, yet he must've had to travel at least a few light years.

I think it comes down to one difference: Wally's faster in a foot race, but Superman beats everyone if he gets to fly.

[sugmasterflex]

Oh, he's way slower. It was a close match back when Wally was at his slowest, but since the Speed Force, it's not even a contest anymore.

SEAN


Superman is faster now than he was in the 90's.

[Sean Whitmore]

When Wally had the Spectre have everyone not remember his identity, he ran from the justice League when they confronted him. Supes was able to keep up.

Superman is faster now than he was in the 90's.

Remember, Wally consistently outran Supes even when he was in his energy form and moving at light speed. Just because the Thing does better against the Hulk at some times than others doesn't change that the Hulk's stronger.


SEAN

[Joe Acro]

Remember, Wally consistently outran Supes even when he was in his energy form and moving at light speed. Just because the Thing does better against the Hulk at some times than others doesn't change that the Hulk's stronger.


SEANI suppose. And given that we have a new continuity, there's really not much argument either way.

I'm happy assuming Flash is faster.

[Sean Whitmore]

I suppose. And given that we have a new continuity, there's really not much argument either way.

I'm happy assuming Flash is faster.

Yeah, I mean, throw the poor bastard a bone. Don't want him to get a complex like Hawkman has. :)

(Seriously, how messed up is that? All dude does is fly, and everyone without cumbersome wings on their back can probably do it better)


SEAN

[BYC]

Yeah, I mean, throw the poor bastard a bone. Don't want him to get a complex like Hawkman has. :)

(Seriously, how messed up is that? All dude does is fly, and everyone without cumbersome wings on their back can probably do it better)


SEAN
But Hawkman is the best at flying...like...a hawk...

[MaxofSteel]

(Seriously, how messed up is that? All dude does is fly, and everyone without cumbersome wings on their back can probably do it better)

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q109/calamax34/CryingHawkman.jpg

[Lord of Denial]

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q109/calamax34/CryingHawkman.jpg

Why does that picture make me want to go pick up trash on the highway?

[MaxofSteel]

Why does that picture make me want to go pick up trash on the highway?

LOL I DUNNO! :p

[Sean Whitmore]

But Hawkman is the best at flying...like...a hawk...

God hates him the most.


SEAN

[BYC]

It's also really messed up that he's not the only guy flying like a hawk. There's Hawkgirl and Hawkwoman. Thankfully, there are no Hawk-animals.

[Sean Whitmore]

It's also really messed up that he's not the only guy flying like a hawk. There's Hawkgirl and Hawkwoman. Thankfully, there are no Hawk-animals.

Well, y'know he had pet hawks at one time.

No, seriously.


SEAN

[BYC]

Well, y'know he had pet hawks at one time.

No, seriously.


SEAN
I didn't know that, but that isn't nearly as bad as what I was suggesting.

Namely, think of Krypto...with hawk wings. AKA, hawk-animals.

[Sean Whitmore]

I didn't know that, but that isn't nearly as bad as what I was suggesting.

Namely, think of Krypto...with hawk wings. AKA, hawk-animals.

I see someone has never met Beppo the Hawk-Monkey!

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y245/whitmore_sean/gorilla_hawkman.gif


SEAN

[BYC]

Comics were better back in the day :D

[Slaughter]

I think The Superman is powerful enough. He took down Superboy-Prime. He defeated that viking-metal-lover lame god know as Thor. In fact, we already saw him taking Darkseid down once. I think we need to see Supes using less power, and more wits and skills. I remember a story during the 90s, I dunno what was the name in English, but in Portuguese, the name was "I Killed Superman." Nome of Supes' powers defeated the guy with the bombs, his skills and wits did it.

[Accroître]

I am happy with his current power level. Is he really second fiddle to Martian Manhunter?

[Sean Whitmore]

I am happy with his current power level. Is he really second fiddle to Martian Manhunter?

On paper, it might seem that way. J'onn has all of Superman's powers, plus telepathy, plus he can shapeshift. But usually, when it comes down to sheer brute strength and durability, it's generally agreed among the stories that Superman is considered more powerful.


SEAN

[IRONY...]

was I wrong thinking that Superman can stay as much as he wants in space not having to breath like other species?

He just has super breath control???

[Iroquois]

After the reboot, he needs air like everyone else. He can keep his breath longer than normal people, but he needs an oxygen mask for space travels.

[IRONY...]

thanks for the info :)

[PatrickG]

After the reboot, he needs air like everyone else. He can keep his breath longer than normal people, but he needs an oxygen mask for space travels.

Actually, back in 1999, he learned that he didn't need air.

His body is capable of functioning strictly on solar energy.

He still likes food and air. And he might need air when his internal energy is exhausted.

But he doesn't use oxygen masks anymore... which I always thought looked clunky anyway.

And realistically, if he was using oxygen tanks without a full space suit, wouldn't it all just seep out his eyes and his pores and freeze on him in deep space? I'd imagine frozen oxygen coating your eyeballs would be an annoyance.

[Iroquois]

Actually, back in 1999, he learned that he didn't need air.

Ahh, I didn't know that. I've missed a lot, most of what I know is research. Thanks for the heads up.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

That was during the Pre-OWAW days, IIRC.

And I agree with IRONY. I like a mega-powerful Superman.

But in the end, it's a matter of tastes.

[Kage Kisaragi]

I wish his levels in all his abilities gradually kept getting stronger. Anything obtained from sun dipping (does he still do that?) should wear off, but living in our solar system should keep increasing his abilities. Like every full year he spends in our solar system increases his abilities 1/100 of fraction of his current power or something. Plus whatever he gets from exercising and fighting strong opponents.

[DaeJi]

I prefer he remain about where he is now. I don't other heroes being as strong or powerful as him, and I certainly don't want him anywhere near pre-crisis levels.

[itsyaboy]

Oh, he's way slower. It was a close match back when Wally was at his slowest, but since the Speed Force, it's not even a contest anymore.

Which is as it should be, I think. You have a guy whose sole power is running fast, you can't make him the second-fastest guy in the world. That'd be just cruel.


SEAN

I can agree with you that the Flash should be the fastest, but multiple times the speed of light? And I'm not even talking like by 2.....try like hundreds of thousands.

Throw in the fact that he one punches martians, can slow almost anyone down to a crawl, phase through most attacks, and cause things to explode. Whatever inferiority complexes that the writers thought the Flash character suffered from has been more than compensated for.

As far as Superman's powerlevel......it's still pretty up there though not even close to pre-crisis Supes. I don't mind stories where they show future Superman being more powerful (Kingdom Come or DC One Million) but I think present day Supes is fine. Writers just have to be more creative with the use of his powers. And I also like the fact that in atleast one of his books their kinda moving toward super intelligence (which really does makes sense considering his abilities and background).

[Iroquois]

I don't like "super-intelligence". I like aspects that one could attribute to what "super-intelligence" could be, but really isn't. I dig Superman reading very fast and having a very photographic memory (per L&C; that book trick was pretty nifty). I also love it when he uses physics or science while operating. I love reading about him calculating the speed he's flying at before crashing through a wall, so he can predict the result of the impact and stuff like that. They take his powers out of the realm of fantasy and make them undeniably cooler.

But all that is just common sense. Superman's supposed to be very, very smart. Great. No need to make his intelligence yet another super-power.

[Ultraman Zoffy]

Superman may or may not be the fastest or strongest character in DC right now, but his catalogue of powers and the level that they are at is definitely above everyone elses... I think it should be more about how he uses all of his abilities in combination as opposed to just relying on one all-powerful punch to win the day.
Also, as powerful as Martian Manhunter is, remember: you can kick his a** with a lighter or a pack of matches.
... which makes me wonder also if you can take out Sodam Yat with a number 2 pencil? =P

[marshal99]

Superman is DC's no. 1 icon so he'll always be the top dog , see OWAW.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

I'm more a supporter of the "yellow/blue/white sunlight turns on most of his powers, red sunlight turns them off". Also, I think it's foolish to make ALL of his powers based on sunlight, like his invulnerability and/or his strength. they should be more related to his "DNA/dense molecular structure" or something like that.

But that's just me...

And DC better keep Superman as the top dog, or else...

[Captain Smith]

Just read the one of the Black Adam arcs stated that Supes was inferior to BA. And some encyclopedias of the DC felt J'onn was and Supes felt that also.

I'm sorry I missed his flight to Bizarro world. However, can he match the space flight abilities of a GL, for instance?

Captain Marvel (the normal version) certainly was very close to him in power - that was OK, given the history.

However, I still feel that since PC kryptonians are showing up now, he needs an upgrade.

[itsyaboy]

Just read the one of the Black Adam arcs stated that Supes was inferior to BA. And some encyclopedias of the DC felt J'onn was and Supes felt that also.

I'm sorry I missed his flight to Bizarro world. However, can he match the space flight abilities of a GL, for instance?

Captain Marvel (the normal version) certainly was very close to him in power - that was OK, given the history.

However, I still feel that since PC kryptonians are showing up now, he needs an upgrade.

What books are these?

[Sean Whitmore]

Just read the one of the Black Adam arcs stated that Supes was inferior to BA.

I'm curious as to how something like that would appear in a story.

Cause if it was Black Adam saying "Superman's inferior to me," Luthor and Brainiac think the same thing. :)


SEAN

[Slumber Hulk]

However, all the crisises end up, there will a central Superman version. Kal-l, KC, Prime, etc. all will get killed or shuttled off to some alternate holding pen.

It's time for the major Supes variant to be more powerful than the rest of the dudes on Earth. No being second fiddle to J'onn, etc. No being significantly slower than a Flash. Maybe photo finish slower but that's it.

He should be able to fly between stars as easily as a GL without holding his breath. He should not be kicked in the noggin by some superhyped hillbilly. Luthor must have an incredible plot to take him, not some stupid knife and power loss (what an original idea).

Get the idea - let's get rid of the current wussy and go more to a Silver Age level with some good story lines.

It sounds to me like what you really want in another Captain Marvel. SHAZAM!
He's already faster than flash and stronger than supes.

[Iroquois]

I think the only one officially more powerful than Superman, until at least a few years back, was J'onn. From there on, it all depends on what we're talking about. People who could beat Superman? Because, yes, Black Adam could, under the right circumstances, beat him. He's magic and a powerful being at that.

[Slumber Hulk]

In "Justice" and "Kingdom Come" they make it pretty clear Marvel is stronger.
Yes, yes... I know... continuity. But I've never seen anything to the contrary in the mainstream.

[Iroquois]

Never got to finish Justice, but in KC Marvel didn't defeat Superman. He bested him for a little while, but didn't get him to stay down. Whether or not he'd win in the end , had it not been for the bomb and all that, is arguable.

[Captain Smith]

The Sinestro War is over and Supes was pretty much one of the mob in it. Got thrown around by Prime. Didn't tackle the Anti-Monitor. Punched out Cyborg for a brief moment but it was the GLC that nailed Cyborg.

Like I said, he's not the focus of the major action of the DCU anymore. Kind of a supporting actor.

[itsyaboy]

The Sinestro War is over and Supes was pretty much one of the mob in it. Got thrown around by Prime. Didn't tackle the Anti-Monitor. Punched out Cyborg for a brief moment but it was the GLC that nailed Cyborg.

Like I said, he's not the focus of the major action of the DCU anymore. Kind of a supporting actor.

Well the Sinestro War was really a GL event so I wouldn't expect him to be key in that story.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

The Sinestro War is over and Supes was pretty much one of the mob in it. Got thrown around by Prime. Didn't tackle the Anti-Monitor. Punched out Cyborg for a brief moment but it was the GLC that nailed Cyborg.

Like I said, he's not the focus of the major action of the DCU anymore. Kind of a supporting actor.

BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!;)

But seriously, that would be sad. AND BLASPHEMOUS!!!!!

[Powerboy]

However, all the crisises end up, there will a central Superman version. Kal-l, KC, Prime, etc. all will get killed or shuttled off to some alternate holding pen.

It's time for the major Supes variant to be more powerful than the rest of the dudes on Earth. No being second fiddle to J'onn, etc. No being significantly slower than a Flash. Maybe photo finish slower but that's it.

He should be able to fly between stars as easily as a GL without holding his breath. He should not be kicked in the noggin by some superhyped hillbilly. Luthor must have an incredible plot to take him, not some stupid knife and power loss (what an original idea).

Get the idea - let's get rid of the current wussy and go more to a Silver Age level with some good story lines.

The multiple versions of Superman that are currently appearing are interesting but, to me, they also exemplify that the once most powerful of super heroes is pretty much just a little bit above the others and nothing compared to the real powers in the universe.

Strangely enough, in one of the Countdown crossovers, watching various versions of Superman have to posture and back down to some schmuck villain who taunts them and calls them "good dogs" because they know they have zero chance of fighting him and winning makes me long for the Silver Age Superman or Bronze Age or even early Golden Age who was the most powerful of super beings relative to the things he encountered.

I find I just want Superman to say, "Know what? Let me introduce you to a new/ old reality, a reality where I'm what I'm supposed to be again. In a universe where others can lift cars, I can lift ocean liners. In a universe where others can lift buildings, I move planets. In a universe where moving planets is common and two-bit villains that have just been introduced can destroy worlds, I tow galaxies", and then punch the villain who thought he was invincible so hard he gets a tour of all 52 universes as he goes flying through them.

Summed up, I REALLY long for Superman to really be Superman again.

[Powerboy]

In "Justice" and "Kingdom Come" they make it pretty clear Marvel is stronger.
Yes, yes... I know... continuity. But I've never seen anything to the contrary in the mainstream.

That's interesting, how different people see the same event and yet see it differently. In Kingdom Come, it seemed to me that Captain Marvel hit Superman with everything he had and the magic lightning was the only thing he had that had any chance of putting Superman down and he still couldn't do it. He hit Supes with everything he had again and again and again and again and Supes just kept getting back up and finally Superman said "Enough" like he was done playing this game and stopped it.

[MaxofSteel]

Well the Sinestro War was really a GL event so I wouldn't expect him to be key in that story.

Yup. Seconded.

[Captain Smith]

While the Sinestro Corps is a GLC event, my view is that there have been two universal foci in the redoing of the DCU - Superman and the Guardians.

The events on OA with Krona generated the multiverse and the COIE. At the end of the COIE it was Superman related characters - Darkseid, Alex Luthor and the two Kals that finally ended the Antimonitor or so we thought.

So the Silver Age Supes and Kal-l in the final battle were crucial to the DCU.

In Infinite Crisis, the power up for the multiverse came from Kal-L Prime and then a Captain Marvel character - Mr. Mind. The Oan revival came from Hal, the Spectre, Ion-Kyle and Parallax interactions.

Thus, the major Supes variant had little to do with the major thrust. True, he was one of the fighters against Prime at the end but the GLC hauled Prime away and his release from OA was Sinestro's doing.

So, again, if you look at the Sinestro War and the Infinite Crisis as defining moments setting the new DCU, along with Monarch, Palmer in Countdown - the current Supes is a bit player watching events.

The driving force of the DCU paradigm has been OA and then Prime retcons.

[Slaughter]

Supes is ALWAYS a main player, even when he ins't the main character. Infinite Crisis and the Superman-Prime and Cyborg Superman specials show that. I love how Superman was indirectly responsible for what turned Henshaw into a immortal psycopath and is, in a strange way, to blame for Coast City's destruction.

I just think that Johns should've used a issue of Action Comics to show the Superman-Cyborg fight. C'mon, Jimmy Olsen countdown tie-ins? Oh god, I would prefer to see the BIG FIGHT. It was kinda symbolic. Superman looked kinda defeated in the Cyborg Superman special...

[666MasterOfPuppets]

The multiple versions of Superman that are currently appearing are interesting but, to me, they also exemplify that the once most powerful of super heroes is pretty much just a little bit above the others and nothing compared to the real powers in the universe.

Strangely enough, in one of the Countdown crossovers, watching various versions of Superman have to posture and back down to some schmuck villain who taunts them and calls them "good dogs" because they know they have zero chance of fighting him and winning makes me long for the Silver Age Superman or Bronze Age or even early Golden Age who was the most powerful of super beings relative to the things he encountered.

I find I just want Superman to say, "Know what? Let me introduce you to a new/ old reality, a reality where I'm what I'm supposed to be again. In a universe where others can lift cars, I can lift ocean liners. In a universe where others can lift buildings, I move planets. In a universe where moving planets is common and two-bit villains that have just been introduced can destroy worlds, I tow galaxies", and then punch the villain who thought he was invincible so hard he gets a tour of all 52 universes as he goes flying through them.

Summed up, I REALLY long for Superman to really be Superman again.

I so agree with you... Superman must be SUPER again.

[elise]

The multiple versions of Superman that are currently appearing are interesting but, to me, they also exemplify that the once most powerful of super heroes is pretty much just a little bit above the others and nothing compared to the real powers in the universe.

Strangely enough, in one of the Countdown crossovers, watching various versions of Superman have to posture and back down to some schmuck villain who taunts them and calls them "good dogs" because they know they have zero chance of fighting him and winning makes me long for the Silver Age Superman or Bronze Age or even early Golden Age who was the most powerful of super beings relative to the things he encountered.

I find I just want Superman to say, "Know what? Let me introduce you to a new/ old reality, a reality where I'm what I'm supposed to be again. In a universe where others can lift cars, I can lift ocean liners. In a universe where others can lift buildings, I move planets. In a universe where moving planets is common and two-bit villains that have just been introduced can destroy worlds, I tow galaxies", and then punch the villain who thought he was invincible so hard he gets a tour of all 52 universes as he goes flying through them.

Summed up, I REALLY long for Superman to really be Superman again.

Couldn't agree with you more. Awesome post! :D

[Froggy]

I wish his levels in all his abilities gradually kept getting stronger. Anything obtained from sun dipping (does he still do that?) should wear off, but living in our solar system should keep increasing his abilities. Like every full year he spends in our solar system increases his abilities 1/100 of fraction of his current power or something. Plus whatever he gets from exercising and fighting strong opponents.

Dc ONe million isht@