Let's Play "Ask The Jew"!

[i_mmmchocolate]

Well, let's see... does Bucharian count as "Russian"?

I've had lots of Polish food too.

Not sure what I've had that's Russian. Sorry Lena.

No prob. I was hoping you'd know the name of a particular Russian dish (rice).

[Typo Lad]

Describe it and I will ask my sources.

Part of the "problem" with "Jewish Food" is that it's such a mish-mash of other culture's foods, for the most part. On the Ashkenazik end of things you have stuff like P'cha (as nasty as it sounds) and Kishke, wheras on the Sephardi side you have Shwarma and chumos.

[i_mmmchocolate]

Describe it and I will ask my sources.

My friend is (mostly) Russian and Jewish. Just not religious.


I'll return back with more details-- it was quite a while since I've eaten it.

[Iangould]

This may be an Australian thing, Ian. In America I cannot recall ever seeing anyone market Kosher Steel.

Well as I said I'm not sure how prevalent this is but it does happen:

http://calbears.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3MKT/is_n125_v100/ai_12378987

W-P Steel gets halal, kosher certification - Wheeling-Pittsburgh Steel Corp - Brief Article
American Metal Market, June 29, 1992

PITTSBURGH -- Wheeling-Pittsburgh Steel Corp. late last week became the third domestic steel producer to earn "certified steel" status from Certified Shipping Transport Inc., the Silver Spring, Md., organization that gives the go-ahead for steelmakers to say they have kosher steel.

Steel products receiving kosher/halal certification are acceptable to the Jewish, Islamic and Seventh Day Adventist faiths for the packaging of food and beverage products throughout the world.

To receive certification, a steelmaker agrees to an evaluation of the surface lubricants it uses in the processing of sheet steel and tinplate products.

As near as I can tell the more organised sections of Australian Jewry devote most of their time to feuding over Joe Gutnick's lawsuit against the Lubavitcher movement and denunciations of Antony Loewenstein (an anti-Zionist Jewish academic with a penchant for self-promotion).

[Typo Lad]

Tell me more of this lawsuit.

[Iangould]

Gutnick donated several million dollars to the Lubavichers for a new Shul.

But for tax purposes it was more advantageous for him to describe the donation as a loan which he could then write off.

A few years later "Daimond Joe," who had raised a very large amount of money from the Lubavicher community based mainly on his personal relationship with Rebbe Schneeman, was in financial difficulties decided it was loan after all.

Because the Lubavichers had acceded to Gutnick's request that the gift be described as a loan so he could get the tax write-off, Gutnick was able to repossess the building and evict the shul.

[jessecuster3]

Dear Jew, as they are not Kosher isn't it wrong to keep beating on this horse after it died ?

[Typo Lad]

Gutnick donated several million dollars to the Lubavichers for a new Shul.

Okay, that starts out well...

But for tax purposes it was more advantageous for him to describe the donation as a loan which he could then write off.

Wait... donations to religious orginizations aren't deductable? And LOANS are?

A few years later "Daimond Joe," who had raised a very large amount of money from the Lubavicher community based mainly on his personal relationship with Rebbe Schneeman, was in financial difficulties decided it was loan after all.

Because the Lubavichers had acceded to Gutnick's request that the gift be described as a loan so he could get the tax write-off, Gutnick was able to repossess the building and evict the shul.

See, that's just not nice.

And Rosh Hashanah is coming too. Tch.

[Typo Lad]

Dear Jew, as they are not Kosher isn't it wrong to keep beating on this horse after it died ?
Hey, if people want to play, I'm not stopping them.

[Iangould]

Wait... donations to religious orginizations aren't deductable? And LOANS are?

Well you see Joe added a notional amount for unpaid interest to the "loss" he claimed for.

[Typo Lad]

Well you see Joe added a notional amount for unpaid interest to the "loss" he claimed for.
He-

-wha?

He charged interest?

He loaned a Jewish orginization and is charging interest.

Wow, if this is true, that's a direct violation for the Torah, forget the law.

[Jeff Brady]

That's just adding details Jeff, not answering. Good try though.

I'm just tryin' ta learn!

People take this stuff very seriously. When someone (Jeff?) asked recently about how to cook for Orthodox Jewish visitors I was tempted to suggest ordering out from a certified Kosher restaurant because virtually any food prepared in the average now-Jewish kitchen would be unacceptable to some Jews.

That was Sirgod. I was one of the responders.

[Typo Lad]

I'm just tryin' ta learn!

There, there. You're doing just fine.

[Mike Smash!]

This may be an Australian thing, Ian. In America I cannot recall ever seeing anyone market Kosher Steel.

It's a gift from Cr_m.

[Mike Smash!]

Morts,

Can an orthodox Jew prepare and cook non-kosher meals for other people, if he is a chef? Is it eating or handling the food that is a no-no?

[Typo Lad]

Morts,

Can an orthodox Jew prepare and cook non-kosher meals for other people, if he is a chef? Is it eating or handling the food that is a no-no?

We can handle the food (well, not on our own dishes), we just can't eat it.

Many people will not work at an establishment that makes or sells Non-Kosher food. I do not know if there is a Halachik basis in this or if it is a comfort issue.

[Mike Smash!]

We can handle the food (well, not on our own dishes), we just can't eat it.

Many people will not work at an establishment that makes or sells Non-Kosher food. I do not know if there is a Halachik basis in this or if it is a comfort issue.

I don't know why, but I suddenly remember the Simpsons episode where Krusty the Clown tries to reconcile with his Rabbi father who doesn't approve of his clowning.

They agree to meet at a restaurant that names sandwiches after famous people. Krusty's father asks what's on his son's sandwich. Bacon, ham, and sausage.

[Typo Lad]

Yeah, that'd be an uncomfortable moment in Real Life.

On a cartoon, it's just funny.

[Iangould]

He-

-wha?

He charged interest?

He loaned a Jewish orginization and is charging interest.

Wow, if this is true, that's a direct violation for the Torah, forget the law.

Well originally it was just cheating the government, it was only after he got caught defrauding shareholders that Gutnick actually tried to collect.

[Iangould]

I don't know why, but I suddenly remember the Simpsons episode where Krusty the Clown tries to reconcile with his Rabbi father who doesn't approve of his clowning.

They agree to meet at a restaurant that names sandwiches after famous people. Krusty's father asks what's on his son's sandwich. Bacon, ham, and sausage.

What, no cheese?

Isaac Asimov told this story about him and his wife meeting this other Jewish coupel on holidays. They hit it off and a couple of weeks after returning to New York he rings them to invite them to dinner. The other husband declines because its one of the High Holy Days.

A few days later they meet for lunch. Before the waiter even gets there the other guy gives Asimov a huge lecture on the importance of maintaining Jewish tradition - then he turns to the waiter and orders a ham and cheese sandwich.

[curefreak]

dear typo lad
do you ever get the feeling that jews get blamed for stuff way too often?
i really get tired of hearing people say how the jews "killed christ" wich technically was a long ass time ago and i also have some serious doubts if he was jesus but thats another story.
i mean dont you think people should get over it by now? especially if the while situation was pre-destined to happen in the first place?
it makes me angry that a whole race of people are being scapegoated for something that might have happened millions of years ago.

end of rant .:o

[Mike Smash!]

dear typo lad
do you ever get the feeling that jews get blamed for stuff way too often?
i really get tired of hearing people say how the jews "killed christ" wich technically was a long ass time ago and i also have some serious doubts if he was jesus but thats another story.
i mean dont you think people should get over it by now? especially if the while situation was pre-destined to happen in the first place?
it makes me angry that a whole race of people are being scapegoated for something that might have happened millions of years ago.

end of rant .:o

Millions of years ago? There weren't Jews until about 3,000 or so years ago. Unless someone has a time machine that I don't know about.

[curefreak]

Millions of years ago? There weren't Jews until about 3,000 or so years ago. Unless someone has a time machine that I don't know about.
really? isnt the bible millions of years old?

[Mike Smash!]

really? isnt the bible millions of years old?

I will just give you the benefit of the doubt and take that as a joke.

[curefreak]

I will just give you the benefit of the doubt and take that as a joke.
well i was serious ive never read the bible so i dont know how old it exactly is but i assumed since were at the dawn of a new millinium that the book was at least a million years old if not more.

[Dan Apodaca]

really? isnt the bible millions of years old?

Yep. It was originally written by a stegosaurus and a fern.

[Mike Smash!]

well i was serious ive never read the bible so i dont know how old it exactly is but i assumed since were at the dawn of a new millinium that the book was at least a million years old if not more.

Well, people haven't been writing for a million years. According to most anthropologists, Human beings (homo sapiens) have only been around for the last 200,000 and 250,000 years.

As far as I know, the human race has only used written language for the past 7-10 thousand years at the most.

A millenium, though, is a thousand years not a million. The Bible as a whole is 2,000 years old at the oldest. The Old Testament perhaps a 1,000 years older.

[curefreak]

Well, people haven't been writing for a million years. I'm not even certain that homo sapiens were around a million years ago.

As far as I know, the human race has only used written language for the past 7-10 thousand years.

A millenium, though, is a thousand years not a million. The Bible as a whole is 2,000 years old at the oldest. The Old Testament perhaps a 1,000 years older.
ok thank you for that non snarky information.

[Paul McEnery]

Yep. It was originally written by a stegosaurus and a fern.
No no no.

It was written by God!

And he's very, very old. Take the oldest thing you can think of. He's even older than that!

[curefreak]

ferns are great writers.:cool:

[Clint Barton]

I love Jules Fern. 20,000 Leagues was quite a work!

[curefreak]

i wonder where ole typo is hmmm.

[Gilda Dent]

i wonder where ole typo is hmmm.

It's ten on the East Coast. My guess would be with his family or in bed. Be patient.

GILDA

[curefreak]

It's ten on the East Coast. My guess would be with his family or in bed. Be patient.

GILDA

im trying its just he usually answers questions very soon.

[Jeff Brady]

It's ten on the East Coast. My guess would be with his family or in bed. Be patient.

GILDA


Yep. Typo has to get up before dawn for work, so if he's smart, he's in bed (in his lovely new apartment) by now.

[Spike-X]

He also has a lovely wife, so again, if he's smart...

[Typo Lad]

dear typo lad

Aww, he called me "dear"

do you ever get the feeling that jews get blamed for stuff way too often?

Define "Too Often".

I live in the New York Metro area, so I'm a bit lucky in not having to deal with the whole "Verndamnit Jews" thing to my face. I do think some people believe Jews have way, way more influcence than we actually have (Google 'The Lobby", by way of example).

i really get tired of hearing people say how the jews "killed christ" wich technically was a long ass time ago and i also have some serious doubts if he was jesus but thats another story.

Um, technically, the Romans killed him, and don't you mean that you doubt Jesus was Christ? Dude's name was Jesus, Christ was the title.

i mean dont you think people should get over it by now?

You're talking to a man whose faith has an entire holiday devoted to commemorating that we were slaves in Egypt, something that happened way, way back in the day, far further back than the death of the false prophet Jesus, so no, I don't. If the death of Jesus is a central tenent of their faith, no-one can ask them to excise it.

especially if the while situation was pre-destined to happen in the first place?
it makes me angry that a whole race of people are being scapegoated for something that might have happened millions of years ago.

end of rant .:o

Hey, this is "Ask the Jew", not "Rant at the Jew".

The one time recently that someone DID comment to me about "Killing Jesus", I responded he should be thanking me; after all... he had to die for their sins, no?

Ungreatful bastards.

[Typo Lad]

Millions of years ago? There weren't Jews until about 3,000 or so years ago. Unless someone has a time machine that I don't know about.

Well, if you ask the guys who wrote "The Lobby", they'd likely accuse us of having one.

really? isnt the bible millions of years old?

No, in fact, according to Judaism, the world is only 5767 years old. 57678 in a week or so.

Now, this is a source of massive debate and one that I'm not getting into right now.

well i was serious ive never read the bible so i dont know how old it exactly is but i assumed since were at the dawn of a new millinium that the book was at least a million years old if not more.

Cure: FYI - The Jewish calender is completely different.

No no no.

It was written by God!

And he's very, very old. Take the oldest thing you can think of. He's even older than that!

G-d exists outside of time/space so techincally, He has no age at all.

[Dennis K]

Dear Jew;

What's up with people killing sting-rays? Don't they realize that that's the last thing Steve Irwin would have wanted?

Sincerely,
Dennis K.

[Typo Lad]

i wonder where ole typo is hmmm.

Salve-driver.

Are you, perhaps, Egyptian?

It's ten on the East Coast. My guess would be with his family or in bed. Be patient.


Unpacking, in fact. Didn't get to bed till 10:30ish.

im trying its just he usually answers questions very soon.

I am not your puppet!

Yep. Typo has to get up before dawn for work, so if he's smart, he's in bed (in his lovely new apartment) by now.

In his lovely, internet-connectionless new apartment.

The Cable guys were supposed to come last Friday between two and four. They ended up showing up at 6 and said they'd need two hours to run the wire. Well, as Shabbos was in less then an hour, I cancled it.

Rescheded for this Friday. Withdrawl sucks.

He also has a lovely wife, so again, if he's smart...

Well, Typo "Light Sleeper" Tot is in our room for the time being, as her room is kind of a staging area, so smart I may be, but I also be a bit lonely.

[Typo Lad]

Dear Jew;

What's up with people killing sting-rays? Don't they realize that that's the last thing Steve Irwin would have wanted?

Sincerely,
Dennis K.

Iangold, fellow Jew and Aussie, points out that hunting sting-rays is perfectly legal and that it appears these sting-rays died prior to Mr. Irwin's demise. As such, what we have here is a case of the media trying to make a story.

Shocked. I am shocked.

[Iangould]

The one time recently that someone DID comment to me about "Killing Jesus", I responded he should be thanking me; after all... he had to die for their sins, no?

Ungreatful bastards.

My reaction is more along the lines of "That's right you motherfuckers we killed a fucking GOD, how hardcore is that? He may have been the King of Kings to you but he wasn't even dogshit to us."

[Dennis K]

Iangold, fellow Jew and Aussie, points out that hunting sting-rays is perfectly legal and that it appears these sting-rays died prior to Mr. Irwin's demise. As such, what we have here is a case of the media trying to make a story.

Shocked. I am shocked.


Thank you both for clearing that up for me. Have a great day.

[Typo Lad]

My reaction is more along the lines of "That's right you motherfuckers we killed a fucking GOD, how hardcore is that? He may have been the King of Kings to you but he wasn't even dogshit to us."
So, you get beat up much?

[Mike Smash!]

Morts,

Can I borrow the Vast Jewish Conspiracy's time machine?

[Typo Lad]

I don't know what you're talking about.

And call me "grandpa", now.

[Mike Smash!]

I don't know what you're talking about.

And call me "grandpa", now.

Does that make Tot my aunt?

[Davideaux]

Dear Jew,

What's the greatest moment in Jewish history?

[Typo Lad]

Dear Jew,

What's the greatest moment in Jewish history?
Why my birth, of course.

Seriously though, the giving of the Torah, but that's just my opinion.

[Dennis K]

Dear Ask The Jew,


Is it okay to fart in elevator when one is by himself right before he exits, thereby trapping the smell in for the next unsuspecting passenger?


Sincerely,

Dennis K.

[Mike Smash!]

Morts,

With your strict dietary rules, does this make eating out nearly impossible? Have you always kept kosher or did you become more religious as you got older?

[Iangould]

So, you get beat up much?

I used to - where do you think that came from?

[Typo Lad]

Morts,

With your strict dietary rules, does this make eating out nearly impossible?

I live in the the NY metro area, so I'm golden.Using the Kosher Restaurant Finder (http://www.pilotyid.com/kosher-map.php) I can find about 69 Kosher restaurants. Over 20 are in walking distance to me.

In the city, there are about 140 of 'em. Now, not all off them are up to my personal level of Kashrut, but there's still over a hundred places I can eat.

Don't even get me started on Brooklyn.

Now, when you get out of the NY area, you start running into more problems. Memphis, for example, has one Kosher restaurant, last I checked (despite having the one of the largest Synagogues in the US).

I don't know who it is in Seattle. Try the Map.

Have you always kept kosher or did you become more religious as you got older?

Always kept Kosher. My mom's parents were more traditional. They keep a Kosher home, but would eat out dairy, Now they don't eat out non-Kosher at all.

[Patient Boy]

With your strict dietary rules, does this make eating out nearly impossible?

Taken out of context, this would be so wrong.

[curefreak]

being jewish sounds like fun except for the whole kosher thing.

[Typo Lad]

I find it rewarding, myself. My wife who is a convert has often remarked that it is a LOT of work.

[curefreak]

I find it rewarding, myself. My wife who is a convert has often remarked that it is a LOT of work.
the great thing about being agnostic is i can eat anything and i can believe in whatever i want(but thats another thread)

[drwho]

Is there anything that you are able to do that doesnt have a regulation in the jewish religion?

[Typo Lad]

Is there anything that you are able to do that doesnt have a regulation in the jewish religion?
Can you be specific? In what sense?

[drwho]

Well I even read somewhere that women have to dress a certain way and things have to be a certain length. Is there anything a jewish person is able to do under thier religion besides breathing that there isnt a rule for?

[Tages]

I live in the the NY metro area, so I'm golden.Using the Kosher Restaurant Finder (http://www.pilotyid.com/kosher-map.php) I can find about 69 Kosher restaurants. Over 20 are in walking distance to me.
*checks*

Wow, in Reno there aren't any. The closest are in Sacramento.

[Typo Lad]

*checks*

Wow, in Reno there aren't any. The closest are in Sacramento.
I guess Reno really is G-dless.

Vegas has a small Jewish community. Visited it a few years ago. Lousy Pizza, I'm sad to say.

[Typo Lad]

Well I even read somewhere that women have to dress a certain way and things have to be a certain length. Is there anything a jewish person is able to do under thier religion besides breathing that there isnt a rule for?
You're assuming there are no laws about breathing.

Actually, I can't think of any.

Judaism, from the Modern Orthodox and Orthodox perspective at least, is a 24-7 thing. I make a blessing before I eat (and try to remember to after, something I suck at). I say a blessing after exiting the bathroom, even.

It's a very spiritual, but demanding way to worship.

[Grazzt]

Just out of curiousity, which kind of pizza do you prefer, one with cheese or one with meat? Favourite toppings?

[Paragon Kobold]

I say a blessing after exiting the bathroom, even.



Umm... What, exactly, do you bless?

[drwho]

Is it fine to have a jewish persons feces comingle with other peoples, or does that also have to be disposed of seperately?

[Gilda Dent]

I live in the the NY metro area, so I'm golden.Using the Kosher Restaurant Finder (http://www.pilotyid.com/kosher-map.php) I can find about 69 Kosher restaurants. Over 20 are in walking distance to me.

I tried that. We have two in our metro area, but they're both quite a drive. I'm pretty sure we don't have any business of any kind in walking distance.

I do have a question related to this, though. What does "supervision" mean. One of the places has no supervision, and the other lists a rabbi from the next state over.

Gilda

[Typo Lad]

Umm... What, exactly, do you bless?

G-d, not the poop. We thank him for the ability to use the bathroom, basically.Trying to find a good translation...

Blessed are You, HaShem, our God, King of the Universe, Who formed man with intelligence, and created within him many openings and many hollow spaces; it is revealed and known before the Seat of Your Honor, that if one of these would be opened or if one of these would be sealed it would be impossible to survive and to stand before You (even for one hour). Blessed are You, HaShem, Who heals all flesh and does wonders.

Source with commentary (http://members.aol.com/lazera/asheryatzar.htm)

[Typo Lad]

Just out of curiousity, which kind of pizza do you prefer, one with cheese or one with meat? Favourite toppings?

Well, the only meat I have on my Pizza is soy based, due to the whole not mixing milk-and-meat thing. Morningstar Farms makes a good soy-sage that we put on homemade pizza, but usually I like either a straight-up cheese slice or a Ziti slice.

[Typo Lad]

Is it fine to have a jewish persons feces comingle with other peoples, or does that also have to be disposed of seperately?

See, now you're just being a stinker, so I'm going to stick my tongue out at you.

[Typo Lad]

I tried that. We have two in our metro area, but they're both quite a drive. I'm pretty sure we don't have any business of any kind in walking distance.

So if I visit, I should pack some MREs*, got it.

I do have a question related to this, though. What does "supervision" mean. One of the places has no supervision, and the other lists a rabbi from the next state over.

The supervision referred to is Kosher Supervision. In order to be considered Kosher (by Modern Orthodox, Orthodox, and some Conservative Standards), there has to be a supervising person, a Mashgiach. He doesn't have to be a Rabbi (or a male, per se, as far as I know).

This only applies to stores that prepare food. Stores that sell pre-packaged Kosher food, sealed, would not need a supervisor.

Meals, Ready to Eat. There's a Kosher line of them. Yay.

[Paragon Kobold]

Blessed are You, HaShem, our God, King of the Universe, Who formed man with intelligence, and created within him many openings and many hollow spaces; it is revealed and known before the Seat of Your Honor, that if one of these would be opened or if one of these would be sealed it would be impossible to survive and to stand before You (even for one hour). Blessed are You, HaShem, Who heals all flesh and does wonders.

That is the coolest blessing ever!

[StoneGold]

So if I visit, I should pack some MREs*, got it.


Matzoh, the original MRE.

[Gilda Dent]

So if I visit, I should pack some MREs*, got it.

Yeah I'd say that's a good idea. I tend to use a lot of shellfish in what I cook. I doubt theres much, if anything that I make that your clan could consume. Plus, all our cooking implements and dishes have been contaminated by being used with both meat and dairy.

Do you have to bring your own food when you visit a non Kosher home, or has it never come up?

Meals, Ready to Eat. There's a Kosher line of them. Yay.[/QUOTE]

Cool.

Gilda

[Typo Lad]

Do you have to bring your own food when you visit a non Kosher home, or has it never come up?

We bring our own.

[Paul McEnery]

So if I visit, I should pack some MREs*, got it.



The supervision referred to is Kosher Supervision. In order to be considered Kosher (by Modern Orthodox, Orthodox, and some Conservative Standards), there has to be a supervising person, a Mashgiach. He doesn't have to be a Rabbi (or a male, per se, as far as I know).

This only applies to stores that prepare food. Stores that sell pre-packaged Kosher food, sealed, would not need a supervisor.

Meals, Ready to Eat. There's a Kosher line of them. Yay.
Here's a question. If you're in a pinch and you can't find Kosher, will Halal do? Are they close enough to provide reciprocity?

[Typo Lad]

Nope. Not allowed.

Fresh fruit and veggies are the only option.

[Paul McEnery]

Nope. Not allowed.

Fresh fruit and veggies are the only option.
What are the big differences?

[Typo Lad]

Simply put?

Recognizing the dietary code of another religion would be recognizing said religion, as I understand it .

[Paul McEnery]

Simply put?

Recognizing the dietary code of another religion would be recognizing said religion, as I understand it .
Huh. That seems odd to me. I don't think I'm Jewish just because I've eaten a bagel, you know what I mean? I'm just guessing that a lot of halal preparations are the same as kosher ones, and I'm sure that the cuisines must have co-evolved, so I'd think that there ought to be a fair bit of crossover.

Hmm. I just found this one site looking at it from the halal point of view (http://www.soundvision.com/info/halalhealthy/halal.kosher.asp).

And another longer one that introduces me to an organization called Jews for Allah. (http://www.jews-for-allah.org/Jews-and-Muslims-Agree/halal_is_kosher.htm) Well I never! (It's a very odd site that seems not quite the epitome of self-hatred that is Jews for Jesus, but still... brrr.)

Oh, and I found a halal/kosher petition for Lucky Charms.

[Typo Lad]

It's not that we'd suddenly become Muslim because we ate Muslim cuisine (Hey, Shwarma rocks), it's that by saying "Halal is okay" we're accepting the dietary guidelines of another faith.

And link me to that petition! I wanna sign up!

[Rabid Trekkie]

Sorry if this question has been asked before. I was having to put something back at the grocery store I work at and they have a section of Kosher foods. One of the items they had was kosher salt. Can salt be un-kosher?

Oh and yes Morningstar does rock.

[DarkBlade]

Kosher salt means it has larger grains of salt that are irregularly sized and it doesn't have additives.

[Iangould]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosher_salt

Kosher salt gets its name, not because it follows the guidelines for kosher foods as written in the Torah (nearly all salt is kosher, including ordinary table salt), but rather because of its use in making meats kosher, by helping to extract the blood from the meat. Because kosher salt grains are larger than regular table salt grains, when meats are coated in kosher salt the salt does not dissolve readily; the salt remains on the surface of the meat longer, allowing fluids to leach out of the meat.

Wikipedia - for people who want to sound like they know more than they really do.

[Grazzt]

I remember reading somewhere that kosher salt comes from naturally evaporating salt water, whereas non-Kosher salt comes from boiling away the water. Also, the Kosher salt-grains are pyramidal in shape, where non-Kosher grains are cubes.

[Typo Lad]

Ian beat me to an answer. The right one, too.

[Mike Smash!]

My favorite fictional Jew, Walter Sobchak. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyGvYn8Woko)

[Typo Lad]

Okay, seeing it instead of just reading it really makes me wanna see that.

[Iangould]

Nope. Not allowed.

Fresh fruit and veggies are the only option.

Would Vegan food be acceptable?

I know it isn't Rbbinically certified but you wouldn't have to worry about pork or shellfish or mixing dairy and meat.

[Typo Lad]

Would Vegan food be acceptable?

I know it isn't Rbbinically certified but you wouldn't have to worry about pork or shellfish or mixing dairy and meat.
Differing opinions. If it was new pots i guess... and you'd have to light the flame yourself.

Still, if the choices were

1) Starving.
2) Pure-Non Kosher
3) Vegan.

I think vegan would be the better option.

Not that I'm a Rabbi.

Plus, you could always eat the veggies raw.

[Patient Boy]

And another longer one that introduces me to an organization called Jews for Allah. (http://www.jews-for-allah.org/Jews-and-Muslims-Agree/halal_is_kosher.htm) Well I never! (It's a very odd site that seems not quite the epitome of self-hatred that is Jews for Jesus, but still... brrr.)


What's even weirder is apparently the guy who started Jews for Allah wasn't even a Jew at any point. Which I suppose accounts for the lack of self-hatred.

[Mike Smash!]

If this is popular, I ought to start my own Atheist Jew group, "Jews for _____".

[Typo Lad]

It exists. It's called Social Zionism.

[Iangould]

It exists. It's called Social Zionism.

Did Israel ever get aroudn to recognising "secular conversions" so the gentile spouses etc of Jews could be treated as Jews for administrative purposes?

[Typo Lad]

Did Israel ever get aroudn to recognising "secular conversions" so the gentile spouses etc of Jews could be treated as Jews for administrative purposes?
Nope. I doubt they ever will. The few "religious" laws are essentially a social contract with the Charedi community. Basically, Orthodoxy is the standard for the three Bs... Birth, Betrothal and Burial.

99% of the time I have no problem with that.

Except when it is used to discriminate against, such as when Orthodox Ritual baths were denying access to Conservative women.

[kingofsnake]

During the time of Christ many Jews refused to believe Christ was messiah because they were expecting the messiah to lead them out of the position of lowerclass and oppression they were in during the Roman Empire, to be the dominate culture in the world. (I do realize this is a gross generalization and each person probably had their own specific reasons for not following Christ, and they probably weren't limited to just this one reason, but just grant the premise so I can get to my question.) My question is this, what traits do Jews expect the messiah to have now? I imagine the would expect him to be christ-like (that is not to say jews around the world should retroactively be like, oh NOW we believe christ was the messiah, plenty of people throughout history have exhibited similar traits, if he's not the messiah he's not the messiah, no matter how similar their opinions are.)

[Typo Lad]

Since all Christ-like means is "Messiah-like", that's circular logic.

I've discussed Moshiach (Lit, anointed one) several times. I'm going to be lazy this time and link (http://www.jewfaq.org/moshiach.htm) instead.

[Puma]

Mordechai, have you heard about this lady?http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/09/21/MNGPDL9LSF1.DTL

[Grazzt]

Dear Jew,

If this thread maxes out, what will you call the sequel thread?

[Typo Lad]

Mordechai, have you heard about this lady?http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/09/21/MNGPDL9LSF1.DTL
The article, she no is linking.

[Puma]

The article, she no is linking.

the interesting thing with this woman is that she married a Jew, attended Synagogue, and planned to be buried next to her husband in a Jewish cemetery.

Deported former guard at Nazi camp is emphatic -- 'I did nothing wrong'
- Demian Bulwa, Nanette Asimov, Meredith May, Chronicle Staff Writers
Thursday, September 21, 2006



Her voice quivering at times and crackling with anger at others, a San Francisco woman deported to her native Germany for serving as a concentration camp guard during World War II said Wednesday that she "did nothing wrong" and had only watched prisoners so they wouldn't "run away."

Elfriede Rinkel, 84, displayed no remorse about what she did at the Ravensbruck concentration camp in northern Germany, where an estimated 90,000 people were killed during the war. And she offered no explanation for why, in all the 42 years she lived with her late husband -- a German-born Jew whose parents died in the Holocaust -- she never told him about her past.

"That was my business," she said simply.

Rinkel dismissed the federal government's reasons for having her deported last month to Germany, where she is now living with a sister in the west coast city of Viersen.

"That is so far back," she said in an hourlong telephone interview. "Everything is forgotten."

Rinkel's half-century of life in the United States was never the stuff of headlines. Those who knew her said she was timid and small of stature and made her way quietly, privately. She lived in a modest apartment in an ill-kept building on Bush Street next to the Powell Street cable car line. In recent years, she had trouble walking and used a cane.

Rinkel hoped to keep her secret, she acknowledged Wednesday, even after federal prosecutors matched her personnel card from the Nazi camp to U.S. immigration records and visited her apartment. It was Oct. 4, 2004, nine months after her husband died of a heart attack at age 88.

They came to ask her about her use of attack dogs to march prisoners to and from their slave-labor assignments around Ravensbruck, the only major Nazi camp built for women. Jews, Gypsies, lesbians and others died there in gas chambers, in crude experiments or from malnourishment.

Rinkel was silent, still, as she boarded a plane Aug. 31 for Germany as part of a deal with the Justice Department. Her brother and his wife drove her to the airport, but they didn't know the real reason an elderly woman would leave her adopted country after so many years here. They thought she was having trouble with her apartment.

"I never talked about this with my husband. There was nothing to talk about," Rinkel said. "You don't talk about things like that, never. That is the past."

Rinkel said she loved her husband, Fred Rinkel, very much. They were married in San Francisco in 1962, three years after she immigrated with help from her younger brother, who still lives in Berkeley, and about 20 years after her husband had made his way to the United States after fleeing the Nazis.

She insisted she had no problem with Jews. She worked "outside, not inside" the Ravensbruck camp, she said, after leaving a job in a factory near her birthplace in Leipzig.

She was 21 when she started in June 1944. She has admitted to the Justice Department that she served for about 10 months, until the camp was abandoned as the Red Army advanced.

"I am not a Nazi. My relatives are not Nazis. I did nothing wrong," Rinkel said Wednesday.

Of her work as a guard, she said, "That was not my fault. I don't have any choice or nothing. They don't tell you nothing about what's going on there."

Asked if she could have refused to work, she said, "There was no other way out. That was impossible in these times."

Her assertions were challenged by Eli Rosenbaum, director of the Justice Department's Office of Special Investigations, which since its formation in 1979 has won cases against 102 people who took part in Nazi persecution and has deported 62 of them.

Rosenbaum was one of two prosecutors who knocked on Rinkel's apartment door in October 2004. She spoke voluntarily, he said Wednesday.

Rosenbaum said Rinkel conspicuously displayed a picture of her husband's black granite gravestone at the Eternal Home Cemetery in Colma, which features a Star of David and the words, "Beloved husband of Elfriede." The cemetery is run by a Chevra Kadisha, a traditional Jewish burial society.

Rinkel volunteered for the job at Ravensbruck because it was easier than factory work, she said.

"While she was there, she never once asked to be assigned somewhere else. She went on home leave to Leipzig and came back," Rosenbaum said. "This is not a coercion situation."

Rinkel was among the 958 German women who served as guards at Ravensbruck during the war. Their job was to watch over the prisoners with German shepherds to make sure they got to their work assignments. The camp was encircled by electrical wire, and those who tried to escape were severely beaten in front of the others, sometimes to the point of death.

Ravensbruck was infamous for the medical atrocities perpetrated against women there. Some prisoners were infected on purpose with gangrene so camp doctors could study how to treat soldiers who developed the disease. Pregnant women were forced to undergo abortions.

Those who gave birth were made to watch as their babies were smothered or drowned in a bucket, according to survivor Germaine Tillion, who wrote "Ravensbruck -- An Eyewitness Account of a Women's Concentration Camp."

Another survivor, Olena Wityk, wrote in 1992 that guards at Ravensbruck marched inmates for miles to dig trenches or work in munitions factories. Meals consisted of a lukewarm brew of chestnuts and acorns or a thin soup of potato peels.

"You have to watch so they don't run away," Rinkel said in the interview Wednesday. "That's all. What's going on inside, I know nothing about."

The Soviets liberated the camp in April 1945 and found 3,500 prisoners still alive. The Nazis had sent the rest of the camp's estimated 32,000 inmates on a death march.

Rinkel slipped away and remained in Germany until her brother and his wife sponsored her for a U.S. visa in 1959. She was a permanent resident alien before her deportation and never applied for citizenship.

Those who came to know Rinkel after she built her new life never had a clue to what she had done.

"If you saw her, she was like a timid thing -- she wasn't outgoing at all," said Gisela Plesin of Lincoln (Placer County), a friend of Fred Rinkel's late brother Harry. "She would never strike you that she was able to do something like that."

And Fred Rinkel "absolutely never knew about it, ever, I swear to God," Plesin said. "He never would have married her after what he went through."

Fred Rinkel had to flee Germany with his three older brothers as the Nazi oppression of Jews intensified and lived in Shanghai for several years before coming to the United States. Their parents and many other relatives died in the concentration camps, said Plesin and Genoveva Rinkel of West Hollywood, the widow of one of Fred Rinkel's brothers, Gary.

Fred Rinkel, an aspiring opera tenor in Germany, became a waiter in America -- sometimes a singing waiter -- and for a time co-owned a tie shop on Market Street. He belted out Placido Domingo arias and enjoyed going to the opera in San Francisco, where he sported a tuxedo with a cummerbund. Elfriede Rinkel worked as a furrier in San Francisco and Berkeley.

The couple were granted a marriage license in San Francisco on Feb. 28, 1962, city records show. She was 39 and he was 46.

They were inseparable, neighbors said. When walking near their Bush Street apartment, they were always arm-in-arm.

"He was very proud to be with her," said Gunvant Shah, who lived across the hall from the couple. "I'd see them walking, and he'd wink at me as we passed."

The sound of the Rinkels singing together in German would often fill the building's shabby hallway, neighbors said. Sometimes they would dance, ballroom style, across their living-room floor.

Fred Rinkel was the one who drew more attention, neighbors said. If people outside made too much noise, he would lean out the window and shout, "Get out of here!" and blow a police whistle.

"Mr. Rinkel was like a guardian," Shah said. "He would look out for us."

As he grew older, and his health declined, neighbors would occasionally hear the couple yelling.

"All the time he was complaining," Alice Fung said. "Sometimes he could get on your nerves, and sometimes she would yell at him. He was very irritable. He suffered."

But when Fred Rinkel died in 2004, Elfriede "was devastated," Fung said. "They were very devoted."

A few months ago, the landlord made some repairs that required Elfriede Rinkel to move from her fifth-floor apartment to the fourth floor.

When Shah asked her a month ago when she was moving back upstairs, she snapped, "Never." He pressed a little. "Never!" she repeated so strongly that he dropped the subject. Rinkel told Fung that she was moving to Switzerland.

"Last night I didn't sleep thinking about this," Shah said. "It's not nice what she did. But she admitted it. I feel love and compassion toward her.

"I feel that deporting her is cruel. But I'm glad she came clean. I pray for her soul and for Mr. Rinkel's soul."

Rinkel said she loved America and wished she could have stayed, could have been buried next to her husband. She had no idea Wednesday that her past had already made front-page news, that her secret was out.

"You don't have to write this story," Rinkel said. "I forbid you to write this story."

[Tages]

I got a little sick reading that article. I can't believe there are still people who think "Because it was my job" is an acceptable excuse for participating in atrocities.

[curefreak]

I got a little sick reading that article. I can't believe there are still people who think "Because it was my job" is an acceptable excuse for participating in atrocities.
whats sad is i actually feel sorry for the old lady but what she did was unexcusable if she wasnt forced.

[dougputhoff]

[QUOTE=curefreak]really? isnt the bible millions of years old?[/QUOTE

He may be closer to being right than some people think.

From The Amplified Bible:

In the beginning [before all time] was the word (Christ) and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself.--John 1:1.

[curefreak]

[QUOTE=curefreak]really? isnt the bible millions of years old?[/QUOTE

He may be closer to being right than some people think.

From The Amplified Bible:

In the beginning [before all time] was the word (Christ) and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself.--John 1:1.
thank you i love you youre my new friend!!! (where were you when i needed you?)

[dougputhoff]

[QUOTE=dougputhoff]
thank you i love you youre my new friend!!! (where were you when i needed you?)

Sorry curefreak, I just your post this morning on Jeffrey W Kramer's signature.

[dougputhoff]

Well, you see...the Bible as we know it was written less than 6,000 years ago by men who claim to have been divinely inspired, if you believe in that sort of thing.

For the mathematically impaired:

Six thousand < millions.

Read Post #2104 again, please.

[Jeff Brady]

Read Post #2104 again, please.

Don't need to. God is God. The bible is a book. There's a difference.

EDIT: Not gonna get further into this here. We can start a new thread about it if it pleases you.

[Paul McEnery]

Read Post #2104 again, please.
Pay attention to reality, please.

The texts we Christians know as the Old Testament were assembled during the Babylonian exile, circa 600 BC.

[Paul McEnery]

Don't need to. God is God. The bible is a book. There's a difference.

EDIT: Not gonna get further into this here. We can start a new thread about it if it pleases you.
To spit in the eye of the pretender to the papacy who goes by the name of Ratzinger, I dispute the idea that God = God.

That dopey funny hat wearing fascist would have us believe that Aristotelian logic was the be all and end all. But it ain't.

One of the best proofs of this is that God =/= God.

[Typo Lad]

Puma,

Thank you for the facinating article. My opinion is that "just following orders" is never a good answer, and she clearly knew that she had been in the wrong by not tellign her husband.

[Typo Lad]

[QUOTE=curefreak]really? isnt the bible millions of years old?[/QUOTE

He may be closer to being right than some people think.

From The Amplified Bible:

In the beginning [before all time] was the word (Christ) and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself.--John 1:1.

Doug, from a purely objective POV, using the Bible to prove the age of the Bible is inherently bad logic. One cannot answer the debate of the age of the universe with "The Torah told me so".

From a religious POV, saying "The Torah existed before Known Reality" does not equal "millions of years old". We can only judge age by items that are Within Time. The Torah did not enter our plane of existence until it was given at Sinai.

[Typo Lad]

Well, you see...the Bible as we know it was written less than 6,000 years ago by men who claim to have been divinely inspired, if you believe in that sort of thing.

For the mathematically impaired:

Six thousand < millions.

Well, from the Jewish perspective, it simply can't be millions of years old because the World As We Know It (which we can argue the meaning of some other time) is less than 6000 years old in the first place.

The rest of your post I'll leave go of.

[Typo Lad]

Pay attention to reality, please.

The texts we Christians know as the Old Testament were assembled during the Babylonian exile, circa 600 BC.

Now, now, Paul. Play nice.

And I disagree with your statement that this is reality. Better to say:

"It is the previaling thought of modern archeology and religious criticism that The texts we Christians know as the Old Testament were assembled during the Babylonian exile, circa 600 BC. I persoanlly agree with this theorum and consider it fact."

I do not agree with said theorum, clearly.

[Typo Lad]

To spit in the eye of the pretender to the papacy who goes by the name of Ratzinger, I dispute the idea that God = God.

That dopey funny hat wearing fascist would have us believe that Aristotelian logic was the be all and end all. But it ain't.

One of the best proofs of this is that God =/= God.

Well, this is some facinating thread drift.

[dougputhoff]

[QUOTE=dougputhoff]

Doug, from a purely objective POV, using the Bible to prove the age of the Bible is inherently bad logic. One cannot answer the debate of the age of the universe with "The Torah told me so".

From a religious POV, saying "The Torah existed before Known Reality" does not equal "millions of years old". We can only judge age by items that are Within Time. The Torah did not enter our plane of existence until it was given at Sinai.

I'm going by what the Gospel According to John says.

[Typo Lad]

So you're using the text to argue the age of said text. I do not mean for this to come out wrong, and I apologize if it does, however...

That doesn't work objectivly.

You have no problem taking the Gospel as a source because you believe it is the word of your god. Those who do not need additional proof, especially when there is very strong archeological evidence to counter your claim (no known Biblical texts pre-dating the Babalonian exile, existing texts from other faiths showing evidence of having the same stories which lend credence to the theory that there was some cribbing going on)

Faith is well and good, and I thrive on it. However, to use Faith as a Logical argument is to ignore that Faith trancends Logic. You can't quantify Faith (yet). Egro, you can't use it to quantify.

[TheTen-EyedMan]

but everyone says something stupid at times,
and i dont know if thinking about it would have changed what i said, cause unless i had done research i wouldnt have known that the bible isnt a million years old.
but it does make more sense that way.


The bible is about 451 years old. It was first printed by a guy called Johannes Gutenberg in 1455 at the behest of the pope of the day...who was if memory serves...Pope Callixtus III.

[Dreadstar]

The bible is about 451 years old. It was first printed by a guy called Johannes Gutenberg in 1455 at the behest of the pope of the day...who was if memory serves...Pope Callixtus III.

No. Before the printing press, scholars hand copied the "bible/torah".


Edit: In fact, here's one on topic for the thread:

Typo, aren't the scrolls used in temple in fact hand-made?

[Typo Lad]

The bible is about 451 years old. It was first printed by a guy called Johannes Gutenberg in 1455 at the behest of the pope of the day...who was if memory serves...Pope Callixtus III.

Um, no. You're being silly, right?

The Bible was the first printed book, but it pre-dates printing by several hundred years. The Dead Sea Scrolls (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_sea_scrolls) for example, were written circa 21- BC-62 AD.

[TheTen-EyedMan]

so now its not even a thousand years old?:confused:

The old testement (testament?) stories were handed down over thousands of years...then written down when the printing press was invented. The new testement (testament) was written by the Vatican when said printing press was available.

[Michael P]

The old testement (testament?) stories were handed down over thousands of years...then written down when the printing press was invented. The new testement (testament) was written by the Vatican when said printing press was available.
So what were all those monks copying during the Middle Ages?

[Typo Lad]

The old testement (testament?) stories were handed down over thousands of years...then written down when the printing press was invented. The new testement (testament) was written by the Vatican when said printing press was available.

That's innacturate. The Torah was written by hand for generations before the printing press. The written word pre-dates Guttenberg.

The Talmud, now that was Orally Transmitted... but even that was redacted prior to Guttenberg.

[Dreadstar]

Typo, are the scrolls used in temple hand-made?

[TheTen-EyedMan]

So what were all those monks copying during the Middle Ages?

Their own interpretations of the stories.

I call it the Rashômon effect. You take three people, tell them a story, they'll all write it down different.

The Gutenberg Bible is the definitive first writing down of the "true" stories. Swear to God.

[Typo Lad]

Typo, are the scrolls used in temple hand-made?

Absolutely. In fact, they're written on parchment and bound with sinew.

[Dreadstar]

Absolutely. In fact, they're written on parchment and bound with sinew.


So basically, the Jews have had an accurate "bible" without the use of a printing press for thousands of years?

[TheTen-EyedMan]

Wrong on both counts. Morts could back up the Torah stuff, since he's Teh Jew, but there are plenty of illuminated manuscripts of New Testament stuff, all done by hand prior to the invention of the printing press.

Shippy...I'm talking about the official version.

I could write a version of the New Testament where Jesus looked like Dan Quayle and he survived the crucifixition but it wouldn't make it offical.

[Ed Cunard]

Their own interpretations of the stories.

I call it the Rashômon effect. You take three people, tell them a story, they'll all write it down different.

The Gutenberg Bible is the definitive first writing down of the "true" stories. Swear to God.

Not quite--most of the hand-copying isn't done by telling someone what to write, but by people copying something someone else had already copied. I do see the point, though--kind of like the last clone in MULTIPLICITY, it's possible that the copies of copies of copies lost or added things along the way that weren't necessarily reflective in the original source material.

[Typo Lad]

Their own interpretations of the stories.

No, not really.

I call it the Rashômon effect. You take three people, tell them a story, they'll all write it down different.

The Gutenberg Bible is the definitive first writing down of the "true" stories. Swear to God.

Please don't swear in His name in Vain. Thanks.

While there are certainly variations in the text between sects (for example, the Samaritans have their own minor variations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritan_Pentateuch), the Torah was meticulously cvopied for centuries before the printing press was ever invented. In fact, the Hebrew used on a Torah scroll features a special form of caligraphy that you have to be trained to do, evne back then.

[Ed Cunard]

Shippy...I'm talking about the official version.

Please call me that forever--that made me laugh, and I've never had a nickname.

[Typo Lad]

So basically, the Jews have had an accurate "bible" without the use of a printing press for thousands of years?

While there have been arguments and schisms (some of the Dead Sea scroll texts, for example, are considered apocriphal), and the oldest known bit of Torah Scroll, The Nash Papyrus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nash_Papyrus) features a slightly different order to the Ten Commandments, the actual content is almost always unchanged.

[TheTen-EyedMan]

Please call me that forever--that made me laugh, and I've never had a nickname.

I hope you know it's not just a random one.

The Cunard line.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Cunard

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cunard_Line

[Typo Lad]

Not quite--most of the hand-copying isn't done by telling someone what to write, but by people copying something someone else had already copied. I do see the point, though--kind of like the last clone in MULTIPLICITY, it's possible that the copies of copies of copies lost or added things along the way that weren't necessarily reflective in the original source material.

A new monk arrives at the monastery. He is assigned to help the other monks in copying the old texts by hand.

He notices, however, that they are copying copies, not the original books. So, the new monk goes to the head monk to ask him about this. He points out that if there were an error in the first copy, that error would be continued in all of the other copies.The head monk says, "We have been copying from the copies for centuries, but you make a good point, my son." So the head monk goes down into the cellar with one of the copies to check it against the original.
Hours later, nobody has seen him. So, one of the monks goes downstairs to look for him. He hears sobbing coming from the back of the cellar, and finds the old monk leaning over one of the original books crying.

He asks, "What's wrong?"

"The word is celebrate," says the old monk.

[Ed Cunard]

I hope you know it's not just a random one.


Oh, know, I know--I mean, I'd almost have to, wouldn't I?--it just wasn't expected. Usually, when someone calls me something based from my surname, they just add a "t" in it.

[TheTen-EyedMan]

A new monk arrives at the monastery. He is assigned to help the other monks in copying the old texts by hand.

He notices, however, that they are copying copies, not the original books. So, the new monk goes to the head monk to ask him about this. He points out that if there were an error in the first copy, that error would be continued in all of the other copies.The head monk says, "We have been copying from the copies for centuries, but you make a good point, my son." So the head monk goes down into the cellar with one of the copies to check it against the original.
Hours later, nobody has seen him. So, one of the monks goes downstairs to look for him. He hears sobbing coming from the back of the cellar, and finds the old monk leaning over one of the original books crying.

He asks, "What's wrong?"

"The word is celebrate," says the old monk.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/ba/Silascode.PNG

I am going to fuck your shit up for that!

[Typo Lad]

Shippy...I'm talking about the official version.

I could write a version of the New Testament where Jesus looked like Dan Quayle and he survived the crucifixition but it wouldn't make it offical.

So basically, your "officail" version is a mistranslation of a mistranslation and a series of books based on it?

Facinating.

[TheTen-EyedMan]

Oh, know, I know--I mean, I'd almost have to, wouldn't I?--it just wasn't expected. Usually, when someone calls me something based from my surname, they just add a "t" in it.

Ted Cunard?

That's silly.

[TheTen-EyedMan]

So basically, your "official" version is a mistranslation of a mistranslation and a series of books based on it?

Facinating.

Isn't it just.

A purple monkey dishwasher could have been our savior.

[Typo Lad]

Isn't it just.

A purple monkey dishwasher could have been our savior.
Hey, considering some of the mistranslations in the King James, I wouldn't be surprised.

Amazing how many Hebrew concept didn't exist in Latin.

"When in doubt, make stuff up"

[TheTen-EyedMan]

Hey, considering some of the mistranslations in the King James, I wouldn't be surprised.

Amazing how many Hebrew concept didn't exist in Latin.

"When in doubt, make stuff up"


The Neocon pledge.

Yay...I just derailed this to a political thing.

[RubinCompServ]

Well, if you ask the guys who wrote "The Lobby", they'd likely accuse us of having one.

SHHH!!!

No, in fact, according to Judaism, the world is only 5767 years old. 57678 in a week or so.

Actually, what I'm sure you meant was it just turned 5767 (for the first 8-9 months of the year, the last digit is the same with the English calendar and the Jewish calendar)

[RubinCompServ]

Well, Typo "Light Sleeper" Tot is in our room for the time being, as her room is kind of a staging area, so smart I may be, but I also be a bit lonely.

If TypoTot and TypoLass are both in the room with you, why are you a bit lonely? *whistles innocently*

Although, if Tot's room is a staging area, I suppose it's for the best that I couldn't take you up on your invitation for this weekend :)

[Tages]

Dear Jew,

Given your proclivity to typos paired with your religious beliefs, do you ever worry about the possibility of mistyping "good" and accidentally spelling that thing you're not supposed to spell?

[DarkBlade]

Tages: I think we've asked Morts that before.. he can say and write the word god with a lowercase g, it's Hashem in particular that the ixnay is on.

[Typo Lad]

Actually, what I'm sure you meant was it just turned 5767 (for the first 8-9 months of the year, the last digit is the same with the English calendar and the Jewish calendar)

Darnit! I hate when I mistype.

[Typo Lad]

If TypoTot and TypoLass are both in the room with you, why are you a bit lonely? *whistles innocently*

You're not that innocent.

Although, if Tot's room is a staging area, I suppose it's for the best that I couldn't take you up on your invitation for this weekend :)

Oh we've finished it since that post. Now our rooms the sole remaining mess.

[Typo Lad]

Tages: I think we've asked Morts that before.. he can say and write the word god with a lowercase g, it's Hashem in particular that the ixnay is on.
Oh i can type HaShem. I can also type God. I chose not to is all. it's a sign of respect.

[DarkBlade]

I phrased that badly. I meant that you chose not to type God.

.. isn't HaShem one of the standard ways to refer God outside of prayers?

[Typo Lad]

Yeah but it's not a holy name of itself, really.

[DarkBlade]

Right, so it's... I didn't mean the word HaShem is one you don't type, I wrote HaShem instead of one of the holy names by habit.

.. confused yet?

*Probably should let Morts answers his own questions, oops.*

[Iangould]

Their own interpretations of the stories.

I call it the Rashômon effect. You take three people, tell them a story, they'll all write it down different.

The Gutenberg Bible is the definitive first writing down of the "true" stories. Swear to God.


Umm, no.

Writing your own "interpretation" of the Bible in the middle ages was a good way of being burnt at the stake.

We have Bibles from the second century which are essentially word-for-word identical with the ones used to make the first printed versions.

We have even older versions of the Torah which ARE word-for-word identical with the modern version.

[Typo Lad]

To be fair Ian, as I pointed out, the Nash Papyrus isn't word-for-word, and that's the oldest known Biblical text.

[Iangould]

Is the Nash papyrus the one they found near Alexandria?

[Stellar]

okay, a more generic question.

if i dig this jewish chick, what chances do i have of getting her parents' apporval if i'm
both:
a. black

b. not jewish

[Jeff Brady]

okay, a more generic question.

if i dig this jewish chick, what chances do i have of getting her parents' apporval if i'm
both:
a. black

b. not jewish

Ooh, I know!

a) Doesn't matter.

b) It depends on how strict they are, if they're practicing, modern or orthodox.

[Typo Lad]

Is the Nash papyrus the one they found near Alexandria?
I'm not finding an exact location of discovery. Sorry.

[Typo Lad]

Ooh, I know!

a) Doesn't matter.

b) It depends on how strict they are, if they're practicing, modern or orthodox.
Stellar,

Jeff's right (Good man, Jeff). Skin color shouldn't mater (well, unless they're bigots) but depending on what sort of Jew they are, they may have issue with your dating their daughter.

And keep in mind... your kids would be Jewish.

[Jeff Brady]

Jeff's right (Good man, Jeff).

Woo hoo!

*takes a cookie*

[Dan Apodaca]

And keep in mind... your kids would be Jewish.

You know what that means...

























CIRCUMCISIONS!!!! YAY!!!

[Michael P]

Woo hoo!

*takes a cookie*
Jew's pet.

[Stellar]

My kids would be jewish? as in, if i want to send them to, iunno, catholic school, it's not gonna happen?
and i don't want to sound racist, but i always thought jews had issues with getting anybody but white dudes in the family, which is one of the main reasons i never bothered hitting on jewish chicks in my hood.

[Puma]

Jewishness is matrilinear so your kids would be considered Jewish.

you could still send them to Catholic school but it would probably confuse them *grin*

[TheTen-EyedMan]

okay, a more generic question.

if i dig this jewish chick, what chances do i have of getting her parents' apporval if i'm
both:
a. black

b. not jewish

Just tell them you are Jewish. And a close relative of Sammy Davis Jnr to boot.

Then that chick will not be the only one calling you the Candy man.

[oddieson]

Wow , hope I am not repeating a question. What is Yiddish, Where from? Has its evolution been documented? by which I mean I can barely understand Shakespear & orignal Beowulf not at all.

[TheTen-EyedMan]

Welcome Newbie.

Go to Wikipedia and be educated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yiddish

[Typo Lad]

My kids would be jewish? as in, if i want to send them to, iunno, catholic school, it's not gonna happen?
and i don't want to sound racist, but i always thought jews had issues with getting anybody but white dudes in the family, which is one of the main reasons i never bothered hitting on jewish chicks in my hood.
There are millions of non-white Jews. "White" Jews are a recent invention.

[spideyguy0]

and i don't want to sound racist, but i always thought jews had issues with getting anybody but white dudes in the family, which is one of the main reasons i never bothered hitting on jewish chicks in my hood.

Not true. Jews dont actively seek converts the way Christian missionaries do, so therefore there arent many black Jews since the Jews of 2000 years ago werent black, but there is nothing wrong with black Jews, or any other types of Jews. Several of my orthodox Jewish friends are Asian, and I work at a school filled with black Ethiopian immigrant Jews. Ethiopia has a very large black Jewish population.

[Iangould]

It's probably worth repeating here that you are considered a Jew if you are either:

a. a practitioner of the Jewish religion; or

b. can trace your mother's family tree back to a descendant of Isaac.

Sammy Davis Jr converted to Judaism as an adult, that makes him a Jew.

I've never been to Synagague but three of my grandparents including my mother's mother were Jewish, that makes me a Jew.

[Stellar]

okay, so you can convert to judaism. i always thought it was a bloodline thing.

thanks for the answers

[Typo Lad]

Nope. Judiasm accepts converts (my wife is one), we just don't seek them ou (well, except to date, like me).

There's a 'spin-off" religion, the Samaritans, that did not take converts until recently, and that wasd only in the last few years and only women. This is due to a really, really small gene pool.

[Typo Lad]

It's probably worth repeating here that you are considered a Jew if you are either:

a. a practitioner of the Jewish religion; or

b. can trace your mother's family tree back to a descendant of Isaac.


While "b" is always true (assuming one remembers to always ignore the XYs on the tree), "a" is not. One can practice and not convert (the Noahides, for example) and one would not be conisdered Jewish. Conversion is nessecary, and then you run into the thorny problem of who considers what conversions acceptible.

Like, my sister-in-law converted Conservative. We don't consider her conversion valid.

[Bouncing Boy]

All this talk of jewishness passed from the mother got me thinking about something, and to clerify the point, I'm going to use the example of one of my favorite jewish character actors...Zero Mostel was Jewish. His wife, Kate Harkin Mostel was a gentile. So that would mean that their son, Josh Mostel, is not jewish unless he converts?

[TheTen-EyedMan]

All this talk of jewishness passed from the mother got me thinking about something, and to clerify the point, I'm going to use the example of one of my favorite jewish character actors...Zero Mostel was Jewish. His wife, Kate Harkin Mostel was a gentile. So that would mean that their son, Josh Mostel, is not jewish unless he converts?

And yet, he played King Herod...the biggest Jew out.

Tim Rice will burn in hell for that.

[Typo Lad]

All this talk of jewishness passed from the mother got me thinking about something, and to clerify the point, I'm going to use the example of one of my favorite jewish character actors...Zero Mostel was Jewish. His wife, Kate Harkin Mostel was a gentile. So that would mean that their son, Josh Mostel, is not jewish unless he converts?
That would be correct, BB. According to the majority opinion, Judiasm goes by mother only.

There is one sect (Reconstructionist, I think) that had been pushing to recognize paternal descent, but that's very frowned on.

Fascinating Biblical fact: Tribe went by father, even though Judiasm whent by mother. According to the sages there was actually a problem of children who were the product of rape/intermarriage with Egyptians and ergo, were without a tribe. I believe in the end they camped with the mother, but were not considered actual tribal members.

[Typo Lad]

And yet, he played King Herod...the biggest Jew out.

Tim Rice will burn in hell for that.
Except according to some Herod wasn't actually Jewish per se, so it fits.

And I don't think he'd be considered the "biggest".

Moshe/Moses has to have him beat.

[TheTen-EyedMan]

Except according to some Herod wasn't actually Jewish per se, so it fits.

And I don't think he'd be considered the "biggest".

Moshe/Moses has to have him beat.

For my last post before work, I say.

They didn't call him King because he was aping Jerry Lawler Typo Lard.

[Gilda Dent]

Wow , hope I am not repeating a question. What is Yiddish, Where from? Has its evolution been documented? by which I mean I can barely understand Shakespear & orignal Beowulf not at all.

Beowulf was an Old English oral folktale whose first written version was in Old English, a dialect enough different from modern English as to be nearly a different language. Unless they've learned the language specifically, nobody can read the original.

Shakespeare, on the other hand, spoke and wrote in Modern English. It isn't difficult to understand because of large differences in language usage between 16th century England and the contemporary US, it's difficult to understand because it's written in blank verse, unrhymed iambic pentameter, using very stylized language. Shakespeare's plays are three hour long unrhymed poems. The English people didn't speak the way Shakespeare's characters did. Realistic speech in drama was neither a convention nor valued at the time, and only gradually came into being over the intervening centuries.

Gilda

[Typo Lad]

You mean Bacon's plays.

[Typo Lad]

For my last post before work, I say.

They didn't call him King because he was aping Jerry Lawler Typo Lard.
Nope. They called him "King" because if they didn't he'd execute them.

Herod wasn't a nice fellow.

[Bouncing Boy]

And yet, he played King Herod...the biggest Jew out.

Tim Rice will burn in hell for that.

Technically Tim Rice had nothing to do with the casting. That would have been director Norman Jewison probably. Interesting story, Jewison also directed the movie of Fidler on the Roof. In the broadway production of Fidler on the Roof, Zero Mostel originated the role of Tevye, and won a Tony award for his portrayal. When Norman Jewison was going to make the movie, Zero auditioned but Jewison cast Topol instead. So when Josh told Zero that he got the role of Harod in JCS (directed by Jewison), Zero said, "Tell him to get Topol's son!"

[Typo Lad]

Heh.

Jewison.

What a name.

[MacQuarrie]

For my last post before work, I say.

They didn't call him King because he was aping Jerry Lawler Typo Lard.
First, don't be abusive. The "Typo Lard" crack was unnecessary.

Second, King Herod:

Herod was jewish, but was not legitimately king of Israel, as he was not from the Tribe of Judah. Herod was made "king" by the roman rulers, and was basically a puppet king, but was so afraid of losing his position that he had people killed if he perceived them as a threat. This explains why he was so paranoid about his position, he knew he wasn't really entitled to it. It was said that it was safer to be a pig in Herod's house than one of his sons; he killed his sons but kept kosher. Pigs get to live.

[Typo Lad]

G-d knows it would be safer than being one of his wives.

I didn't even notiuce the "lard" crack.

[Bouncing Boy]

I was going to basically say what MacQuarrie said about King Harod, but I didn't have time because I had to take Rally to work. I would like to add that I think there was more than one King Harod. There was the one who wanted to find and kill Jesus when he was born, and then there was his son who was the one who killed John the Baptist.

The other thing I wanted to say was that Bacon didn't write Shakespeare's plays dagnabbit!!!

[Typo Lad]

1) Herod.

2) Of course, you're right.

Marlow obviously did it.

[TheTen-EyedMan]

First, don't be abusive. The "Typo Lard" crack was unnecessary.

No crack buddy. Typo.

Playing on words.

[Bouncing Boy]

1) Herod.

2) Of course, you're right.

Marlow obviously did it.

1) Maybe I should be called Typo Lad

2) As always

3) Yeah, obviously, you know, since he was dead at the time.

[Iangould]

3) Yeah, obviously, you know, since he was dead at the time.

That's what they want you to think.

[Typo Lad]

Actually, Thursday Next's father wrote them.

Shh. Don't tell SpecOps.

[Puma]

Actually, Thursday Next's father wrote them.

Shh. Don't tell SpecOps.

I hope there's more than just me who got that

[Typo Lad]

I hope there's more than just me who got that
I'm on the second book. My library doesn't have The Well of Lost Plots. Darnit.

[Ilash]

I hope there's more than just me who got that

No, I got that too. I haven't read any of the Thursday Next books yet but The Big Over Easy is the book I intend to read next so if I like it I'll probably check out Fforde's other books as well.

[Puma]

I'm on the second book. My library doesn't have The Well of Lost Plots. Darnit.

I read the third first and then the first

haven't read the second

[MacQuarrie]

No crack buddy. Typo.

Playing on words.
Oh. Okay then. Carry on.

[Super Hero Guy]

Dear Jew,

Do you keep seperate utensils as well as dishes for meat and dairy?

[Typo Lad]

Dear Jew,

Do you keep seperate utensils as well as dishes for meat and dairy?
Yes. Yes I do.

[Perry Holley]

Judiasm states that Non-Jews have seven laws to keep to our 613, and they're pretty simple. Anyone who keeps them to the best of his/her abilities (from G-d's perspective)is considered a Rightious person.Apologies if you've listed them before, but what are the seven laws for non-Jews?

[Mike Smash!]

Apologies if you've listed them before, but what are the seven laws for non-Jews?

And how do these laws apply to non-theistic Jews? Like say, David Cross or Noam Chomsky. They're Jews ethnically, but they're atheists.

[Valmore]

Dear Jew,

Why is The Moon Knight a lame knock-off of The Batman, and why did they feel the need to make the lame knock-off Jewish?

[Mike Smash!]

Dear Jew,

Why is The Moon Knight a lame knock-off of The Batman, and why did they feel the need to make the lame knock-off Jewish?I thought the Moon Knight worshipped Egyptian gods or something...

[Valmore]

I thought the Moon Knight worshipped Egyptian gods or something...

Does he? I thought he was Jewish.

Either way, why in the world would you wear white at night to fight crime?

[Mike Smash!]

Does he? I thought he was Jewish.

Either way, why in the world would you wear white at night to fight crime?

Someone who doesn't want to be hit by a car?

[Valmore]

Someone who doesn't want to be hit by a car?

But he's a hero - he should be able to avoid getting hit by a car!

[Grazzt]

Does he? I thought he was Jewish.

Either way, why in the world would you wear white at night to fight crime?

Because he's too badass to care about being seen?

Unlike that Batman pussy. Robin is the real hero.

Disclaimer: I am not a Jew, so this answer may or may not live up to the high standards of quality set by the Jews in the "Ask a Jew" thread.

[Typo Lad]

Apologies if you've listed them before, but what are the seven laws for non-Jews?
Swiped from Wiki with commentary by me.


1. Avodah zarah - Do not worship false gods.
Many define this as a commandment to be be Monotheistic.


2) Shefichat damim - Do not murder.
3) Gezel - Do not steal (or kidnap).
4)Gilui arayot - Do not be sexually immoral (forbidden sexual acts are traditionally interpreted to include incest, bestiality, male homosexual sex acts, i.e. sodomy, and adultery.)

Please note that Maimonodies, the father of Modern Jewish thought, did not count anal sex as a forbidden sexual act for non-Jews.

5)Birkat Hashem - Do not "bless God" euphemistically referring to blasphemy.
Also to not swear an oath in G-d's name

6)Ever min ha-chai - Do not eat any flesh that was torn from the body of a living animal (given to Noah and traditionally interpreted as a prohibition of cruelty towards animals)

7)Dinim - Set up a system of honest, effective courts, police and laws.

[Typo Lad]

And how do these laws apply to non-theistic Jews? Like say, David Cross or Noam Chomsky. They're Jews ethnically, but they're atheists.
Between them and G-d. They're Jewish if they had Jewish mothers.

[Typo Lad]

I thought the Moon Knight worshipped Egyptian gods or something...
He does, yet he's Jewish. An aspect that's actually fascinating when you think about it.

And he's silver, not white.

[Mike Smash!]

Between them and G-d. They're Jewish if they had Jewish mothers.

What if their mothers were Jewish atheists?

[Mike Smash!]

And he's silver, not white.

Oh man, he is so not getting hit by a car then...

[Typo Lad]

What if their mothers were Jewish atheists?
Makes no never mind, technically.

[Iangould]

Makes no never mind, technically.

As I've said before, the majority of Europeans and arabs are probably technically Jewish according to Jewish law, they just don't know it.

[Mike Smash!]

According to contemporary Jewish belief, would it be more offensive to God for someone not to believe in him/her or to believe in a different god altogether?

[Iangould]

And he's silver, not white.

which makes perfect sense when you recall that he started out by fighting a werewolf.

[Tages]

Swiped from Wiki with commentary by me.


1. Avodah zarah - Do not worship false gods.
Many define this as a commandment to be be Monotheistic.
Nonreligious folk also do not worship false gods. Are they counted?

[TheTen-EyedMan]

Swiped from Wiki with commentary by me.
4)Gilui arayot - Do not be sexually immoral (forbidden sexual acts are traditionally interpreted to include incest, bestiality, male homosexual sex acts, i.e. sodomy, and adultery.)


Thank God I'm not Jewish...or I'd be in deep shit.

[Tages]

Thank God I'm not Jewish...or I'd be in deep shit.
This post is funny, but only unintentionally, since it's clear you weren't paying very good attention to that post.

[Mike Smash!]

This post is funny, but only unintentionally, since it's clear you weren't paying very good attention to that post.

I was gonna play devil's advocate and defend him....but I got nothin'.

[TheTen-EyedMan]

This post is funny, but only unintentionally, since it's clear you weren't paying very good attention to that post.


Accidental humor is humor all the same.

I hope you had a chuckle at my idiocy.

[Perry Holley]

Swiped from Wiki with commentary by me.
As an agnostic, 1) really isn't a problem. 2-4) I'm all pretty much okay with. 5-6) I'm in trouble with, though. 7) is beyond my power to influence, but I'm down with the basic idea of it.

[Typo Lad]

According to contemporary Jewish belief, would it be more offensive to God for someone not to believe in him/her or to believe in a different god altogether?

I've read numerous commentaries that seem to indicate that claiming there are "better" ways to deal with one's fellow man than those outlined in the Torah is bad, but it's not as bad as leaving for another religion.

There's a verse where G-d chides a prophet (I forget which) saying the people have left Him for "empty vessels that hold no water". Rav Soloveichic parses this as G-d saying "You know, if you'd left Me becauce you'd found some new form of social justice or something, that'd be one thing - but to worship a chunk of wood? C'mon, that's just insulting."

[Typo Lad]

As an agnostic, 1) really isn't a problem. 2-4) I'm all pretty much okay with. 5-6) I'm in trouble with, though. 7) is beyond my power to influence, but I'm down with the basic idea of it.

On 7, many Rabbis say that simpy serving Jury duty would count as fulfilling the commandment. Others say voting would.

On 6 - Wait... you've eaten the flesh of a still living animal? Nasty. That's not saying be a vegan or anything, it's a specific prohabition on say, amputating a frog to just eat the legs, but keeping the frog alive.

[Perry Holley]

On 7, many Rabbis say that simpy serving Jury duty would count as fulfilling the commandment. Others say voting would.I've done both, so I guess I'm okay there.

On 6 - Wait... you've eaten the flesh of a still living animal? Nasty. That's not saying be a vegan or anything, it's a specific prohabition on say, amputating a frog to just eat the legs, but keeping the frog alive.Ah, I misread that one, then. Yeah, I guess I'm okay there, as well.

And 5) I don't do often, but old habits die hard...

[Athena Bast]

I saw this at work today and immediately thought of you Typo.

The part of me thinks you'd like it.

What Would Typo Think? (http://www.amazon.com/Jewtopia-Chosen-Book-People/dp/0446579548/sr=8-1/qid=1161300996/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-6950852-8452767?ie=UTF8)

[Typo Lad]

I always wanted to see that play...

[Athena Bast]

I always wanted to see that play...

Oh thank goodness... because the second I saw that I said to myself "Typo would love that!"

As I was typing it I thought.. ohhh but what if he doesn't and he gets offended?

Then I thought about Scruffy Wesley and reaffirmed my first thought :D

[Typo Lad]

Yeah, I'm not so easily offended.

Maybe because I'm so offensive

[Winslow]

You may have covered this before.

You've mentioned several times that Jews don't have a concept of "The Fall."

How do Jews view Adam's decision to eat of the Tree of Knowledge, and the resulting curses found in Genesis 3? (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=1&chapter=3&version=31)

[Typo Lad]

Whee... this week's Torah Portion.

We believe in man's fall, but not Lucifer and the like.

[spideyguy0]

Dear Fellow Jew,

Do you know where I could find a comic book store in the Tel Aviv area/ how I could go about finding one if you dont know of one. If it matters my Hebrew is terrible, and I dont even know how to say "comic book" in Hebrew.

[Winslow]

Whee... this week's Torah Portion.

We believe in man's fall, but not Lucifer and the like.

That makes sense to me.

Most references to Satan's "fall" are New Testament.

Many point to this passage in Isaiah, (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=14&version=31&context=chapter) but I think it's about the King of Babylon (probably Nebuchadnezzar [sp?])


How you have fallen from heaven,
O morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!

You said in your heart,
"I will ascend to heaven;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain

[Typo Lad]

Dear Fellow Jew,

Do you know where I could find a comic book store in the Tel Aviv area/ how I could go about finding one if you dont know of one. If it matters my Hebrew is terrible, and I dont even know how to say "comic book" in Hebrew.
You know, that's a dang good question.

Have you tried the Bezek pages? Heck, are they even still called that?

Also, try Google.

[Typo Lad]

That makes sense to me.

Most references to Satan's "fall" are New Testament.

Many point to this passage in Isaiah, (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=14&version=31&context=chapter) but I think it's about the King of Babylon (probably Nebuchadnezzar [sp?])
I'll look abotu commentary, but that could also be about Zion as a people

[Jeff Brady]

Dear Fellow Jew,

Do you know where I could find a comic book store in the Tel Aviv area/ how I could go about finding one if you dont know of one. If it matters my Hebrew is terrible, and I dont even know how to say "comic book" in Hebrew.

http://the-master-list.com/International/Israel/index.shtml

[spideyguy0]

http://the-master-list.com/International/Israel/index.shtml

todah rabah

[Typo Lad]

That means "thanks alot", before y'all ask.

[Gilda Dent]

1. Avodah zarah - Do not worship false gods.

Not a problem.

2) Shefichat damim - Do not murder.

I've felt the desire on occasion, but haven't acted on it.