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Super Hero Guy
06-15-2006, 02:27 PM
Dear Jew,

assuming that tomorrow you learn your religion is wrong, what religion would you hope was revealed to be the true one?

Typo Lad
06-15-2006, 03:07 PM
SHG: I can't answer that question because it is based on a false assumption.

Jeff Brady
06-15-2006, 05:18 PM
SHG: I can't answer that question because it is based on a false assumption.

Now THAT'S faith.

Super Hero Guy
06-15-2006, 05:29 PM
Ok, be that way. Just so you know, my answer would be Judaism. Or maybe Islam...

Super Hero Guy
06-15-2006, 05:30 PM
Now, let's see.

Was there ever an exact moment in your life that you decided you believed in your God 100%?

StoneGold
06-15-2006, 05:36 PM
Morts: What are your personal opinions on the rather exculsionary aspects of Judaism? And by that, I mean the difficulty it takes to become Jewish, if you aren't born into it. I know there are some movements now to make conversion easier.

Typo Lad
06-15-2006, 05:38 PM
My faith has been affirmed and reaffirmed several times, actually. Praying at the Kotel on Tisha B'Av, standing on Tel Yavneh, meeting my wife and, years later, discovering all the odd "coincidences" that connected us.

And of course holding my daughter.

Typo Lad
06-15-2006, 05:41 PM
Morts: What are your personal opinions on the rather exculsionary aspects of Judaism? And by that, I mean the difficulty it takes to become Jewish, if you aren't born into it. I know there are some movements now to make conversion easier.

Honestly? I think the exclusionary tactics are fine. Really. Those who want to convert, like my wife, work through it. Those who are doing it out of some sort of trendy need? They can join the Kaballah Movement.

FunkyGreenJerusalem
06-16-2006, 01:22 AM
Honestly? I think the exclusionary tactics are fine. Really. Those who want to convert, like my wife, work through it. Those who are doing it out of some sort of trendy need? They can join the Kaballah Movement.

But should a grown man have to get the skin cut off his willie?

Isn't that mean?

Hasn't it just become a form of hazing?

Mike Smash!
06-16-2006, 01:32 AM
But should a grown man have to get the skin cut off his willie?

Isn't that mean?

Hasn't it just become a form of hazing?Well, I suppose if you did it against his will, it'd be more than hazing.

Mike Smash!
06-16-2006, 01:46 AM
Morts,

Does your family celebrate the usual non-Christian American holidays like Halloween?

Typo Lad
06-16-2006, 02:18 AM
But should a grown man have to get the skin cut off his willie?

Isn't that mean?

Hasn't it just become a form of hazing?

That's not one of the exclusionary tactics, for one thing. Also, if an adult is converting (indeed, or any child older than a month or so), circumcision is only done by a doctor with a lot of anesthetic. Further, it doesn't even have to be a "full" circumcision.

Morts,

Does your family celebrate the usual non-Christian American holidays like Halloween?

We don't celebrate Halloween as it has a religious origin, even though it's non-Christian. We do, however, get together with family on Thanksgiving, the 4th of July, Father's Day, Mother's Day, and sometimes even memorial day. I personally have begun "observing" Veteran's Day by calling my grandfather, something I should have done my whole life.

FunkyGreenJerusalem
06-16-2006, 02:22 AM
That's not one of the exclusionary tactics, for one thing. Also, if an adult is converting (indeed, or any child older than a month or so), circumcision is only done by a doctor with a lot of anesthetic. Further, it doesn't even have to be a "full" circumcision.


So what do you get?

Just a nip with a knife?

And how much anesthetic?
How can a converter know it's not just being done sothat three days later when they are still in pain that you won't ride into their village and slay them all?
There is biblical precedent after all.

Typo Lad
06-16-2006, 04:07 AM
So what do you get?

Just a nip with a knife?

Not me, but basically, yeah. Just a token cut.

And how much anesthetic?

A whole fracking lot.

How can a converter know it's not just being done sothat three days later when they are still in pain that you won't ride into their village and slay them all?


That depends, did your prince rape my sister and then pass her around to the rest of the town?

FunkyGreenJerusalem
06-16-2006, 04:10 AM
That depends, did your prince rape my sister and then pass her around to the rest of the town?

It sounds so negative when you say it like that...

He did ask for her hand in marriage afterwards!

(It's almost like Robert Heinlein wrote the bible)

Typo Lad
06-16-2006, 04:42 AM
Actually, he offered to pay her dad her bride-price, nto exactly the same thing. I guess he figured he broke it, he bought it.

Actually, fun fact - the Talmudic Fiscal Penalty (and there are other non-fiscal ones) for rape is the amount Shchem offered.

Iangould
06-17-2006, 11:02 PM
Dear Jew,

Assume God asked you to sacrifice your daughter as he asked Abraham to sacrifice his son, would you?

FunkyGreenJerusalem
06-17-2006, 11:58 PM
I know that some consider books in the bible to be less factual and more parables/metaphors.

If that's the case, is the story of Gideon meant to be actual events, or more the early Jewish peoples/Gods attempts at humour?

Typo Lad
06-18-2006, 03:47 AM
Assume God asked you to sacrifice your daughter as he asked Abraham to sacrifice his son, would you?

Since the age of prophecy is over, if I started hearing G-d talk to me, I would immediately have myself checked in to the nearest mental hospital.

Typo Lad
06-18-2006, 03:48 AM
It's been too long since I studies Shoftim (Judges), Funky, so I'm not sure what the prevailing view is. It's considered factual that Gideon existed, but the actual story may have some poetic bits.

Mike Smash!
06-18-2006, 03:50 AM
Does Judaism have any unified position on same sex marriage, abortion or Rob Liefeld?

FunkyGreenJerusalem
06-18-2006, 03:58 AM
It's been too long since I studies Shoftim (Judges), Funky, so I'm not sure what the prevailing view is. It's considered factual that Gideon existed, but the actual story may have some poetic bits.

Read it with Woody Allen or Bob Balaban in mind (or any small, skinny guy who's always afraid).
It reads like a comedy (to me anyway).

Typo Lad
06-18-2006, 04:03 AM
Does Judaism have any unified position on same sex marriage, abortion or Rob Liefeld?

Isn't this really early for you Mike?

Judaism has very very few "unified" positions. About the only thing every sect agrees on is the first commandment, "I am HaShem your G-d". Beyond that, it's all subject to different interpretations.

FunkyGreenJerusalem
06-18-2006, 04:09 AM
Isn't this really early for you Mike?

Judaism has very very few "unified" positions. About the only thing every sect agrees on is the first commandment, "I am HaShem your G-d". Beyond that, it's all subject to different interpretations.

I did a count of the commandments last night (first time I've had a bible out in at least five years), and had kept a whopping three out of ten.

Gilda Dent
06-19-2006, 11:12 AM
Typo Dude:

If this has been asked before, please forgive my repetition. My sister-in-law is an ER nurse my father-in-law a cardiologist and both are constantly evangelizing regarding organ donation. My FIL loses two or three patients a year to heart failure due to a lack of available donor hearts. Actually they just remind people that if they want to donate their organs, tell their family or doctor or even better, put it in their living will, which every adult should have anyway, because the back of the driver's license means nothing.

What is the Jewish view of organ donation? If it isn't prohibited, are you an organ donor, and have you notified your family?

Gilda

Typo Lad
06-19-2006, 11:23 AM
And in comes Gilda with a toughie.

This is a question that severely divides the Jewish community. Many feel that organ donation in general is a form of desecration. However, there are exceptions and provisos (ie: some say if you know for certain that a specific person will die if they don’t get your organ). This is very much an issue that each person should ask his or her religious authority about.

I, myself, am not an organ donor. However, in my case it is for medical reasons and not religious ones. I’ve got sub-par parts, is seems.

Jeff Brady
06-19-2006, 05:37 PM
I’ve got sub-par parts, is seems.

Nah, they're just too sexy for anyone else.

Mike Smash!
06-19-2006, 05:42 PM
How does someone with a shaved head keep their yarlmuke on?

Grazzt
06-19-2006, 09:06 PM
Since the age of prophecy is over, if I started hearing G-d talk to me, I would immediately have myself checked in to the nearest mental hospital.

When did the age of prophecy end? Will their be a new one?

Bouncing Boy
06-19-2006, 11:15 PM
An odd question based on a conversation I had with my step-dad on sunday...was September 11th, 2001 Yom Kipur(sp?)

Jeff Brady
06-19-2006, 11:20 PM
An odd question based on a conversation I had with my step-dad on sunday...was September 11th, 2001 Yom Kipur(sp?)

It was the 27th, apparently. (http://world.std.com/~reinhold/jewishholidays.txt)

Bouncing Boy
06-20-2006, 12:09 AM
It was the 27th, apparently. (http://world.std.com/~reinhold/jewishholidays.txt)
My step-dad was convinced that it was the 11th, and that was the reason that day was chosen for the attack...or something like that

Bouncing Boy
06-20-2006, 12:46 AM
It was the 27th, apparently. (http://world.std.com/~reinhold/jewishholidays.txt)
My step-dad was convinced that it was the 11th, and that was the reason that day was chosen for the attack...or something like that

Typo Lad
06-20-2006, 02:10 AM
Tell your stepdad to go to hebcal.com. He's way off.

Dennis K
06-20-2006, 05:07 AM
Dear "The Jew"


Have you heard the joke with the punchline "I'm Tonto Goldberg, nice to meet you"?

Typo Lad
06-20-2006, 05:14 AM
No. No I have not.

Dennis K
06-20-2006, 05:23 AM
No. No I have not.


Ah well, let me tell it to you, but please bear in mind that it would be much funnier if told by somebody else, in person. Anyway.....


A man gets on a plane bound for New York City when I stunning university age female sits down next to him. From her briefcase she pulls out many notebooks and legal pads filled with information. "Excuse me for being nosey" he says, "but may I ask what you're working on, it seems like you've done quite a bit of research" She smiles at him and says that she's working on a project that compares and contrasts the size of the American male penis. "It's really quite fascinating" she tells him, "my research would indicate that Native American males have the longest average penis while Jewish men have the thickest." She pauses for a moment and adds; "I'm sorry, but I didn't catch your name when I first sat down." The man smiles, puts forth his hand to shake and says, "I'm Tonto Goldberg, nice to meet you."

Typo Lad
06-20-2006, 05:27 AM
Cute. Very cute. And kinda flattering.

Sandy Hausler
06-20-2006, 08:50 AM
The best humor always has an element of truth. (The Jewish part)

Sandy Hausler

Super Hero Guy
06-20-2006, 04:45 PM
Dear Jew,

Do you know what's the origin of the, er..."k-word"? You know which one, I assume.

Typo Lad
06-21-2006, 05:30 AM
Well, Marvel said it was supposed to be "Killer", but there was an error at the printer. I still say it would have been far more interesting to reveal that Logan hates Sabertooth because he was Jewish.

Oh, you mean the word itself, not the issue of Wolverine!

I've no idea, but wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kike) has some.

Iangould
06-21-2006, 03:01 PM
I heard that it was an error during the lettering when a computer spell-check changed "killer" to "kike".

Whihc is kind of intersting in itself seeing as I doubt "Kike" is in any of the standard dictionaries used by the word-processing packages. It seems more like something a user would have to add.

Typo Lad
06-22-2006, 04:15 AM
I smell a conspiracy!

Super Hero Guy
06-22-2006, 12:36 PM
Dear Jew,

when the world ends and the Messiah comes, will you all say, "We TOLD you so!" to us gentiles?

Forefinger
06-22-2006, 12:44 PM
Dear Jew,

Do you agree that Bill Goldberg is the most kickass Jew ever?
http://www2.hawaii.edu/~andrewsa/goldberg/goldberg4.jpg

Mike Smash!
06-22-2006, 12:58 PM
Dear Jew,

Do you agree that Bill Goldberg is the most kickass Jew ever?
http://www2.hawaii.edu/~andrewsa/goldberg/goldberg4.jpg

No. That honor goes to Optimus Prime:

http://www.jour.sc.edu/pages/wigginsweb/optimus.jpg

Typo Lad
06-22-2006, 03:43 PM
when the world ends and the Messiah comes, will you all say, "We TOLD you so!" to us gentiles?

No. Because the world ending isn't part of the scenario.

Grazzt
06-28-2006, 01:56 PM
Dear Jew,

If you bite into a non-kosher food on accident, but manage to spit it out without swallowing, would you have still broken the rules?

Typo Lad
06-28-2006, 03:20 PM
Depends. You'd have to ask your Rabbi. I suspect no, it's not a problem.

Citizen V
06-28-2006, 07:06 PM
Why do the Isralies and Palastinians hate each other so much?I once heard of the reason why..

DarkSoldier
06-28-2006, 07:54 PM
I think it has to do with the fact that the UN, back in 1948, partitioned Palestine and made part of it into Israel. That ticked the Palestinians off, so they refused to recognize the UN's authority, claimed Israel was never formed, and started waging war to get it back.

To keep it going for almost 60 years, the Palestinians and their allies have been teaching their children to hate Israel and to continue the bloody, pointless conflict.

Typo Lad
06-28-2006, 11:58 PM
Dark,

Close. It also includes the fact that the Palestinians were supposed to be integrated into "Trans-Jordan", and weren't welcome, thus making them homeless, and also that the US and USSR were using the Israelis and palestinians as Cold War pawns for their ideologies.

OzBat!
06-29-2006, 12:00 AM
That, and the British really screwing things around pre-world war 1. It didn't upset the status quo (just barely, outside a couple of small but horrific massacres), but it bred a lot of quiet hostility and prejudice that would flare up a generation later.

Iangould
06-29-2006, 03:14 AM
I think it has to do with the fact that the UN, back in 1948, partitioned Palestine and made part of it into Israel. That ticked the Palestinians off, so they refused to recognize the UN's authority, claimed Israel was never formed, and started waging war to get it back.

To keep it going for almost 60 years, the Palestinians and their allies have been teaching their children to hate Israel and to continue the bloody, pointless conflict.


Actually neither side accepted the UN decision but the arab leaders were dumb enough to be the first to say so publicly - the Israelis just attacked.

It might also have just a little to do with the fact that - according to Israel's own records - the mass expulsion of arabs from Israel was accompanied by widespread rape, murder, torture and robbery.

Or maybe it has something to do with the fact that in the past 5 years alone Israel has killed more Palestinians than Americans were killed on 9/11. THat's in a population about 1/50th the size of the US'.

But hey obviously having your land stolen, growing up in wretched poverty; and seeing relatives and class-mates killed and their deaths shrugged off as "collateral damage" has nothing to do with it.

It's all down to that brainwashing.

By the way, care to enlighten us on why Israelis hate Palestinians?

Typo Lad
06-29-2006, 04:11 AM
Israelis don't. Some Israeli's love 'em. Naturai Karta, for one. Also some of Stamar.

That said, the problem is Ashkenazim (Eastern European Jews). Israel is run by Ashkenazim. Ashkenazi Zionists tend (mind you I say tend) to have absorbed all the worst Imperalistic and Jingoistic tendnacies of the nations that they lived in originally. That they completely miss the irony of a displaced & conquered peoples wanting a homeland with a right of return boggles my mind.

They don't just hate Palestinians, btw. They hate everyone. The Secular Ashkenazim hate the religious Ashkenazim, both hate the Sephardim, African, Asian, and Yemminite Jews, etc.

Sometimes I despair for my own peoples.

Iangould
06-29-2006, 04:46 AM
Israelis don't. Some Israeli's love 'em. Naturai Karta, for one. Also some of Stamar.

That said, the problem is Ashkenazim (Eastern European Jews). Israel is run by Ashkenazim. Ashkenazi Zionists tend (mind you I say tend) to have absorbed all the worst Imperalistic and Jingoistic tendnacies of the nations that they lived in originally. That they completely miss the irony of a displaced & conquered peoples wanting a homeland with a right of return boggles my mind.

They don't just hate Palestinians, btw. They hate everyone. The Secular Ashkenazim hate the religious Ashkenazim, both hate the Sephardim, African, Asian, and Yemminite Jews, etc.

Sometimes I despair for my own peoples.

Well obviously some Jews hate Palestinians -Baruch Goldstein beign an obvious example.

The point I was fumbling towards is that the question "why do the palestinians hate the Jews?" is loaded and based on a faulty or at least unproven assumption.

Sandy Hausler
06-29-2006, 04:47 AM
That, and the British really screwing things around pre-world war 1. It didn't upset the status quo (just barely, outside a couple of small but horrific massacres), but it bred a lot of quiet hostility and prejudice that would flare up a generation later.

Uh, I think you mean pre-World War II. The Ottoman's controlled (then-)Palestine prior to World War I.

Sandy Hausler

Sandy Hausler
06-29-2006, 04:49 AM
Actually neither side accepted the UN decision but the arab leaders were dumb enough to be the first to say so publicly - the Israelis just attacked.

It might also have just a little to do with the fact that - according to Israel's own records - the mass expulsion of arabs from Israel was accompanied by widespread rape, murder, torture and robbery.

Or maybe it has something to do with the fact that in the past 5 years alone Israel has killed more Palestinians than Americans were killed on 9/11. THat's in a population about 1/50th the size of the US'.

But hey obviously having your land stolen, growing up in wretched poverty; and seeing relatives and class-mates killed and their deaths shrugged off as "collateral damage" has nothing to do with it.

It's all down to that brainwashing.

By the way, care to enlighten us on why Israelis hate Palestinians?

Not true. The Israelis, while not thrilled with the partition plan, did accept it. It was the Arab countries, not Israel, that attacked. (though the Israelis were expecting it and were ready for it)

And I would also take issue with just about everything else you say. (Mass expulsions my foot, to say nothing of rape, murder, etc.)

Oh, and you conveniently forget Palestinian terror, including suicide bombings.

But hey, why confuse us with facts.

Sandy Hausler

Typo Lad
06-29-2006, 05:02 AM
Well obviously some Jews hate Palestinians -Baruch Goldstein beign an obvious example.

Um, no. Baruch Golstein hated all non-Jews. While a medic in the IDF, he refused to treat Israeli Arab soldiers.

Typo Lad
06-29-2006, 05:03 AM
This thread has lasted two years.... can we try not to turn it into a flamewar?

Sandy: There were quite a few expulsions at the time, btw.

Sandy Hausler
06-29-2006, 05:13 AM
This thread has lasted two years.... can we try not to turn it into a flamewar?

Sandy: There were quite a few expulsions at the time, btw.

I didn't say there was no expulsion (though the evidence on that is spotty). But it's a giant overstatement to say that there was a mass expulsion. And it's certainly not evidenced by Israeli records.

Sandy Hausler

Typo Lad
06-29-2006, 05:18 AM
Well, the records at the time couldn't havbe been perfect, eh?

That said, there certainly are enough Israeli Arabs (many of which serve in the IDF, a point Anti-Arbabic people tend to miss) to show that "mass" might be the wrong word.

Iangould
06-29-2006, 05:31 AM
Not true. The Israelis, while not thrilled with the partition plan, did accept it. It was the Arab countries, not Israel, that attacked. (though the Israelis were expecting it and were ready for it)

And I would also take issue with just about everything else you say. (Mass expulsions my foot, to say nothing of rape, murder, etc.)

Don't take issue with me. Take issue with Israeli historian Benny Morris.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Morris

n his book of 1988; The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem, 1947-1949, on the origins of the Palestinian refugee problem, Morris argues that the approximately 700,000 Palestinians who fled from their homes in 1947 left mostly due to Israeli actions or fear of Israeli actions, but not as the result of a preexisting expulsion plan. This was at the time a controversial position, as the official position in Israel had been that the Palestinians left voluntarily or after pressure/encouragement from Palestinian or outside Arab leaders.

At the same time Morris documented atrocities on the part of the Israeli armed forces, including cases of rape, torture, and ethnic cleansing.

In the beginning of the book Morris shows a map over empty Palestinian villages, and explains why the villagers left. 228 villages were evacuated due to attack from Jewish forces. In 41 villages the inhabitants were expelled by military forces. In 90 villages the inhabitants were stricken with panic due to attack on other villages, and fled. In only 6 villages the inhabitants left because the local Palestinian authorities told them. He was not able to find out why another 46 villages were emptied.

In the 2004 book; The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem Revisited, he changes his perspective, and place the major responsibility for the creation of Palestinian refugees on Jewish military groups. According to Morris, these groups massacred far more Palestinians than has been known earlier. He also writes that expelling Palestinians was a goal that was shared with main Jewish leaders at the time. Israel's first Prime Minister, David Ben-Gurion, gave orders to destroy Palestinian villages in 1948, according to the Israeli politician Aharon Cohen. In this 2004 version, Morris underlines that Jewish leaders, also before Israel was created, wanted as few Arabs/Palestinian in the areas they were conquering as possible. They wanted for demographic reasons as many Palestinians to flee as possible.



Oh, and you conveniently forget Palestinian terror, including suicide bombings.

But hey, why confuse us with facts.

Sandy Hausler

I didn't "forget" anything, I was responding to claims that the only reason Palestiniansh ave for hatig Israleis is becasue they've been brainwashed into it.

Had I been asked a question to which the fact of Palestinian terrorism was relevant I would have mentioned Palestinian terrorism.

BTW, in what way are "suicide bombings" relevant to the events of 1947?

Edited to add: I will happily debate this issue furter but anyone who wants to do so should respect Morts wishes and start a new thread.

Sandy Hausler
06-29-2006, 07:59 AM
Don't take issue with me. Take issue with Israeli historian Benny Morris.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Morris

n his book of 1988; The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem, 1947-1949, on the origins of the Palestinian refugee problem, Morris argues that the approximately 700,000 Palestinians who fled from their homes in 1947 left mostly due to Israeli actions or fear of Israeli actions, but not as the result of a preexisting expulsion plan. This was at the time a controversial position, as the official position in Israel had been that the Palestinians left voluntarily or after pressure/encouragement from Palestinian or outside Arab leaders.

At the same time Morris documented atrocities on the part of the Israeli armed forces, including cases of rape, torture, and ethnic cleansing.

In the beginning of the book Morris shows a map over empty Palestinian villages, and explains why the villagers left. 228 villages were evacuated due to attack from Jewish forces. In 41 villages the inhabitants were expelled by military forces. In 90 villages the inhabitants were stricken with panic due to attack on other villages, and fled. In only 6 villages the inhabitants left because the local Palestinian authorities told them. He was not able to find out why another 46 villages were emptied.

In the 2004 book; The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem Revisited, he changes his perspective, and place the major responsibility for the creation of Palestinian refugees on Jewish military groups. According to Morris, these groups massacred far more Palestinians than has been known earlier. He also writes that expelling Palestinians was a goal that was shared with main Jewish leaders at the time. Israel's first Prime Minister, David Ben-Gurion, gave orders to destroy Palestinian villages in 1948, according to the Israeli politician Aharon Cohen. In this 2004 version, Morris underlines that Jewish leaders, also before Israel was created, wanted as few Arabs/Palestinian in the areas they were conquering as possible. They wanted for demographic reasons as many Palestinians to flee as possible.





I didn't "forget" anything, I was responding to claims that the only reason Palestiniansh ave for hatig Israleis is becasue they've been brainwashed into it.

Had I been asked a question to which the fact of Palestinian terrorism was relevant I would have mentioned Palestinian terrorism.

BTW, in what way are "suicide bombings" relevant to the events of 1947?

Edited to add: I will happily debate this issue furter but anyone who wants to do so should respect Morts wishes and start a new thread.

Dr. Morris's views are highly controversial and hardly the last word on the subject.

The issue under discussion was not what happened on 1947, but why the Palestinians hate the Jews and vice versa, so suicide bombings and other terrorism are highly relevant.

Sandy Hausler

Typo Lad
06-29-2006, 08:03 AM
Palestinians don't hate Jews, they hate Israelis. There's a difference.

And 1947 is why Palestinians hate Israelis.

Iangould
06-29-2006, 08:06 AM
Dr. Morris's views are highly controversial and hardly the last word on the subject.

I've read Karsch's attempt to discredit Morris, if that's the best his critics can do then he does currently stand as "the last word on the subject".

Sandy Hausler
06-29-2006, 08:12 AM
Palestinians don't hate Jews, they hate Israelis. There's a difference.

And 1947 is why Palestinians hate Israelis.

I wouldn't make such an unequivocal statement. I understand there's a lot of anti-Semitism in their children's textbooks. (Haven't seen them myself, so I'm just basing this on press reports.)

Sandy Hausler

Typo Lad
06-29-2006, 08:17 AM
And some say there's lots of Anti-semitism in Israeli textboosk too (psst. Arabs are Semites). Israeli kids are raised to hate too.

That's part of the problem.

I, personally, liked when the Jordanian and Israeli Sesame Streets did a joint effort for a while. That was nice.

Iangould
06-29-2006, 08:28 AM
And some say there's lots of Anti-semitism in Israeli textboosk too (psst. Arabs are Semites). Israeli kids are raised to hate too.

That's part of the problem.

I, personally, liked when the Jordanian and Israeli Sesame Streets did a joint effort for a while. That was nice.

I heard about that.

The arab and Jewish puppets lived on different streets but there was a park where the streets intersected where they all came to play.

Then someone wanted to know who owned the park and all hell broke loose.

(Note: I'm not making this up.)

Typo Lad
06-29-2006, 08:30 AM
Um, that's not how I heard it went. Source?

Iangould
06-29-2006, 08:45 AM
This is an interesting run-down on the Palestinian (not Jordanian) version of Sesam Street but it doesn't mention the fight over the square:

http://www.library.cornell.edu/colldev/mideast/sesa2.htm

ERUSALEM, Nov. 8—An Israeli boy out riding his bicycle takes a wrong turn, gets a flat tire and winds up stuck in a Palestinian neighborhood. There, behind a wall, he spots . . . a couple of shaggy Muppets.

Happily, this is Middle Eastern "Sesame Street," where Jews and Arabs are on friendly terms even though they live on separate streets. So the Palestinian Muppets get to work replacing the tire. Stereotypes are shattered, everyone smiles and all ends well.

Or does it?

"When we interviewed Palestinian preschool teachers, they were angry about the segment," said Cairo Arafat, an expert on preschool education here. "They said, 'The Israelis have taken everything from us--our homes, our land--and now we're giving them a bicycle wheel?' "
...
Not only do the Israeli and Palestinian Muppets live on separate streets, but their producers have radically different ideas about how they should meet and interact. The Israelis wanted lots of integrated activities--by mutual consent, of course. The Palestinians said thanks but no thanks--until the Israelis end their occupation of Arab lands.
...
"Early on," said Bernstein, "an Israeli asked, 'What if you created a show where [Israeli and Palestinian] children were singing and dancing together, and there was a bus bombing the same day?' "

Amid much fanfare, the show began airing last year, the Israeli program in Hebrew and the Palestinian one in Arabic. Some elements are traditional "Sesame Street" fare: Both sides, in their own languages, teach the traditional curriculum of colors, letters, numbers and vocabulary.

But the characters live separate lives on separate streets--the Israelis on a boardwalk with a view of the Mediterranean, the Palestinians with a sweet shop and a landscape of arid hills and olive trees. When the two meet, it is in "crossover" segments in which cast members from each street visit the other--usually by invitation.
...
As in the peace process itself, the two sides call each other partners, but much of the tension between them sprang from the Palestinians' perception that they were by far the weaker and less advantaged of the two.

Not even the Muppets were exempt. The Palestinian producers were determined to match the Israeli show's equivalent of Big Bird: Kippi, a lumbering purple porcupine whose prickly personality conceals a heart of gold. When they settled on Kareem, a proud but amiable rooster, some Palestinians complained that Kareem, a hand-held puppet, was a fraction of the size of Kippi, who is played by a human in a costume. After much hand-wringing, the Palestinians decided to keep Kareem as he was, for the simple reason that he was easier to deal with.

Typo Lad
06-29-2006, 08:50 AM
I swear, it's like we don't have enough to fight about and need to make new stuff up.

Iangould
06-29-2006, 08:54 AM
Here's another article, that's closer to the version I remember hearing:

http://www.jewishsf.com/content/2-0-/module/displaystory/story_id/6660/edition_id/125/format/html/displaystory.html

Israelis and Palestinians finding rough road on `Sesame Street'

ESTHER HECHT
Jerusalem Post Service

When Israeli TV producers and Palestinian filmmakers accepted an American proposal last fall to create a joint version of "Sesame Street" fostering tolerance and mutual respect, the real barriers between the two communities loomed large.

Producing this series, whose main aim is to teach the alphabet, numbers and concepts to preschoolers, has become an exercise in conflict resolution.

After both sides had agreed on the obvious -- that each would have a stage set for its own "street" and its own characters -- they found themselves mired in endless discussions about the "middle area," where Palestinian characters would meet their Israeli counterparts. Ironically, the middle area would not exist physically, since neither studio had room for another stage set, but would be a composite generated by film magic, joining the borders of the two sets.

"When we met, we said we would have a park at the edge of our set and they would have a park at the edge of theirs," says Dolly Wolbrum of Educational Television, who heads the Israeli side of the project. "They asked whom the park belongs to. We said it doesn't belong to anyone."

At one point the Palestinians suggested that the middle area be divided by a physical wall that would have to be breached, drawing an "over-my-dead-body" response from Wolbrum.

"I said it was diametrically opposed to the philosophy of the program," she said. "Our purpose is not to reflect reality, but to show a possibility for the future."

But for Daoud Kuttab, executive producer on the Palestinian side, clear boundaries are important. "We thought even a symbolic wall was necessary to demarcate where our territory starts and where theirs begins."

The Palestinians see themselves as walking a tightrope between building national identity and fostering neighborly relations. So the show's relationship to reality is hardly a simple matter.

"If we don't show reality, we lose credibility; we're just dreamers. If we show the reality, it will be too violent, defeating the purpose we have set for ourselves," Kuttab says. "We're trying to find the middle ground." That's where the puppets come in handy, because "already you're in some kind of dream world, so it's OK to fantasize to a degree."

It wasn't enough to resolve where the characters from the two sets would interact. How they would meet also became a topic for debate.

"We didn't believe it was appropriate to show Palestinian children and Israeli children playing as though nothing had happened," says Dr. Cairo Arafat, an expert on early childhood development and one of the Palestinian team's advisers.

The Palestinians nixed chance encounters on their street because this would undermine values they were trying teach: "a feeling of pride, that this [street] is the home territory and [that] those who come in are our guests," Kuttab says.

But Wolbrum says she can't imagine a first meeting that wouldn't be by chance. After that, it will make sense to have planned meetings.

Of course, this may all be irrelevant because it relates to the Palestinian version of Sesame Street not the Jordanian.

Sandy Hausler
06-29-2006, 01:02 PM
And some say there's lots of Anti-semitism in Israeli textboosk too (psst. Arabs are Semites). Israeli kids are raised to hate too.

That's part of the problem.

I, personally, liked when the Jordanian and Israeli Sesame Streets did a joint effort for a while. That was nice.

Sorry Typo, but anti-Semitism means hatred of Jews. Check your dictionary. The fact that Arabs are Semites is irrelevant. I don't know if you have been checking the textbooks of Israeli children, but I dobut there's anything resembling what's in the Palestinian textbooks.

Sandy Hausler

Typo Lad
06-29-2006, 02:52 PM
I'd need samples of both to compare. Which i don't have. So I'm going to bow out of this entire line of conversation.

Mike Smash!
06-29-2006, 06:14 PM
Morts,

This is more of a question of your personal religious convictions and beliefs, rather than Judaism per se... I know that your family is very religious and that your wife converted when you married.

If your wife had chosen not to convert, but still wanted to marry you, would you have still married her? If so, how do you believe this would change your marriage? How important is it for you to share your faith with your wife?

Mike Smash!
06-29-2006, 06:15 PM
Palestinians don't hate Jews, they hate Israelis. There's a difference.

Thank you for saying this. There are so many on the Right that use accusations of bigotry against any criticism of Israeli policy.

Mike Smash!
06-29-2006, 06:17 PM
Morts,

What are your thoughts on the word "Jew" being both an ethnic and a religious description? Is an ethnic Jew still a Jew even if they don't follow the Judaic traditions? For example, both professor Noam Chomsky and comedian David Cross are both ethnically Jewish, but both are Atheists?

Typo Lad
06-30-2006, 12:53 AM
I gotta stop checking CBR when I wake up for a glass of water.


This is more of a question of your personal religious convictions and beliefs, rather than Judaism per se...

Eh. We've had a few of those.

I know that your family is very religious and that your wife converted when you married.

If your wife had chosen not to convert, but still wanted to marry you, would you have still married her? If so, how do you believe this would change your marriage? How important is it for you to share your faith with your wife?

Well Mike, first I need to correct a misconception that you seem to be operating under: Suzannah's decision to convert predated her meeting me. She first considered it at age 12 and eventually started studying at 189, shortly after her mother died. The Rabbi she was studying under suggested a Jewish college in NY and she came here, where we met. I, however, was still in HS and she was one of my dad's student body so we never really noticed each other. She finished her conversion in NY and dated a man for two years. A year after they broke up, we became friends and began dating.

So she did not convert to marry me. In fact, Orthodox Judaism doesn't recognize such conversions.

Had Suzannah not decided to convert, I would not have married her, simply because it was her decision to convert that ended up bringing her into my life.

Typo Lad
06-30-2006, 12:55 AM
What are your thoughts on the word "Jew" being both an ethnic and a religious description?

Earlier in this thread I mention that it's become a three-fold term - a religion, and ethnicity, and a cultural identification.

Is an ethnic Jew still a Jew even if they don't follow the Judaic traditions? For example, both professor Noam Chomsky and comedian David Cross are both ethnically Jewish, but both are Atheists?

I use this Litmus test: Would Hitler have gassed them? Then yes, they're Jewish.

Yes. They're Jewish.

Mike Smash!
06-30-2006, 01:01 AM
Well Mike, first I need to correct a misconception that you seem to be operating under: Suzannah's decision to convert predated her meeting me. She first considered it at age 12 and eventually started studying at 189, shortly after her mother died. The Rabbi she was studying under suggested a Jewish college in NY and she came here, where we met. I, however, was still in HS and she was one of my dad's student body so we never really noticed each other. She finished her conversion in NY and dated a man for two years. A year after they broke up, we became friends and began dating.

So she did not convert to marry me. In fact, Orthodox Judaism doesn't recognize such conversions.

Had Suzannah not decided to convert, I would not have married her, simply because it was her decision to convert that ended up bringing her into my life.

Forgive my mistake. A hypothetical, I suppose. Had you met Suzannah under different circumstances and she had not converted to Judaism, would you have still married her? Many people with deep religious convictions will only date or marry people who share their beliefs. Is this the case with you?

If not, how do you think being married to someone of a different faith would have changed your marriage?

Typo Lad
06-30-2006, 02:16 AM
Honestly? If she hadn't been Jewish I wouldn't have dated her. Period. Being Jewish is the core of my being.

And aside from CBR, I didn't go many places socially where I'd be "exposed" to non-Jewish women. I went to all jewish schools, a Jewish college, Jewish youth events... etc.

Sentry
06-30-2006, 02:51 AM
Honestly? If she hadn't been Jewish I wouldn't have dated her. Period. Being Jewish is the core of my being.

And aside from CBR, I didn't go many places socially where I'd be "exposed" to non-Jewish women. I went to all jewish schools, a Jewish college, Jewish youth events... etc.

Yes but... what if you had met her, got to know her and fell in love with her. What then?

Surely a little thing like a belief would not stand in the way there?

Typo Lad
06-30-2006, 03:09 AM
Sentry, with all due respect, you're opperating under a misconception. My faith isn't a "small" thing. It is, as I said above, the core of who I am. All that I am is shaped by my yidishkite ("Jewishness").

Not, obviously, saying that sharing faith solves all problems, but it is a common ground to start from. We both have similar haskofa (views on our faith) and that's part of the core of how we relate to each other and our child.

Sentry
06-30-2006, 03:14 AM
Sentry, with all due respect, you're opperating under a misconception. My faith isn't a "small" thing. It is, as I said above, the core of who I am. All that I am is shaped by my yidishkite ("Jewishness").

Not, obviously, saying that sharing faith solves all problems, but it is a common ground to start from. We both have similar haskofa (views on our faith) and that's part of the core of how we relate to each other and our child.

Ok, not wanting to make you choose, but i am going to make you choose.

Is your faith more important than your woman? Lets say she changed faith, would you still be with her or would your faith hold out?

Mike Smash!
06-30-2006, 03:14 AM
Yes but... what if you had met her, got to know her and fell in love with her. What then?

Surely a little thing like a belief would not stand in the way there?

Well, for Morts, it's not a little thing. And without putting words in his mouth, his being Jewish does affect his whole life, from the things he eats to the way he raises his daughter.

Those are the sorts of things that you want a spouse to be on the same page with you on, particularly so if you're very religious.

I can say that as an Atheist, I may not be opposed to dating someone with different beliefs, but not overly dramatically so. I couldn't, for instance, date a fundamentalist Christian.

I wouldn't have the freedom to vent my feelings unfiltered about religion unfiltered without a potential fight or debate and it would dramatically decide how Sundays or holidays are spent. And if there are children in the picture, it could affect the choices made about their upbringing.

And I think the more devoted you are to a faith, as Morts is, the more important that you both share the same faith.

This is why I asked Morts the question, mostly to see how important this was to him.

Typo Lad
06-30-2006, 04:02 AM
I love Mike.

Typo Lad
06-30-2006, 04:08 AM
Ok, not wanting to make you choose, but i am going to make you choose.

Hah!

Is your faith more important than your woman?


"My Woman"? What is she, chatel?

Lets say she changed faith, would you still be with her or would your faith hold out?

Welcome to the excuse many Shadchanim (matchmakers) use for the blatant bigotry in not matching converts or balai t'shuvah (someone who has returned to the way) with religious from birth folks.

"But they might change their minds again!"

It's a silly argument, really, that ignores the amount of work a convert generally puts into converting. Aside from family frictions (which my wife, blessedly, has little. One drunk of an aunt who thinks I killed Jesus with my bare hands). Then there's the crud converts have to put up with after they actually convert. Suzannah once had a date find out she was a convert and end the evening. THat's, sadly, par for the course.

That said, if Suzannah were to suddenly reject the entire Torah, then yes, that'd be a deal breaker. I would still over her and it would break my heart, but I wouldn't remain in a marriage with such a large disconnect in place.

And before you ask, I would give her custody of Tot. Why, do you ask?

Because this is something we discussed when we went though a bad patch (See? I don't hare everything here). If we were to divorce for any reason she would raise Tot as an Orthodox Jew. Taking Tot from her would kill her.

But since everything's okay, it's really a non-issue.

Iangould
06-30-2006, 04:16 AM
Can you ever, under any circumstances, contemplate the possibility that you might be the one to leave the faith?

Typo Lad
06-30-2006, 04:19 AM
I suppose if, say, the Second Coming occured.

But even then I'd suspect a trick.

Sentry
06-30-2006, 05:24 AM
I suppose if, say, the Second Coming occured.

But even then I'd suspect a trick.

Blane or Copperfield?

Iangould
06-30-2006, 06:04 AM
I suppose if, say, the Second Coming occured.

But even then I'd suspect a trick.


"That's not really the Son of God. It's old man Smithers who owns the old deserted mill outside of town."

"And I would have gotten away with it if not for those pesky kids."

Mike Smash!
06-30-2006, 10:36 AM
I suppose if, say, the Second Coming occured.

But even then I'd suspect a trick.You and me both, buddy.

I'd suspect another of Cobra Commander's traps.

Typo Lad
06-30-2006, 10:41 AM
That may just be the best idea for a G.I. Joe comic ever.

Mike Smash!
06-30-2006, 10:43 AM
That may just be the best idea for a G.I. Joe comic ever.He'd use a teleportation device to kidnap all of the world's religious leaders and then appear as the Messiah.

"uh, why does Jesus have such a shrill voice?"

Mike Smash!
06-30-2006, 10:48 AM
Morts, what is your opinion of the New Testament?

Does it kind of feel like an unofficial sequel to your book retconned in by another author, like that sequel to "Gone with the Wind" that came out about ten years back?

And how does the Torah differ from the modern day Old Testament? Any changes in translation or the way it's presented?

Typo Lad
06-30-2006, 10:58 AM
Morts, what is your opinion of the New Testament?

I ahven't read it in depth. Do you mean conceptually?

Does it kind of feel like an unofficial sequel to your book retconned in by another author, like that sequel to "Gone with the Wind" that came out about ten years back?

Your analogies are so, so much better than mine.

And how does the Torah differ from the modern day Old Testament? Any changes in translation or the way it's presented?

Depends on the eddition, but yeah. Mainly due to differences in language.

Mike Smash!
06-30-2006, 03:50 PM
I ahven't read it in depth. Do you mean conceptually?

Well, conceptually. Does it feel weird that another religion basically took your holy book and added a sequel to it?

Or more generally, what is your perception of Christianity, given the similarities and differences between it and Judaism?

Also, why is it that you think that American Judaism, even its most conservative circles, hasn't really produced its own equivalent of Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell?

Typo Lad
06-30-2006, 04:19 PM
Well, conceptually. Does it feel weird that another religion basically took your holy book and added a sequel to it?

Meh. It started as a spin-off, so I guess it makes sense, no?

Or more generally, what is your perception of Christianity, given the similarities and differences between it and Judaism?

Hmm... can I come back to this? It's a good question deserving of a longer answer than I can give an hour before Shabbat.

Short answer? What do I think of Christianity? I think it's a nice idea.

Also, why is it that you think that American Judaism, even its most conservative circles, hasn't really produced its own equivalent of Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell?

'scuze me for a sec Mike.

heh.

Sorry, I don't mean to laugh at you, but we very much have our own Falwells. The difference is our conservative nutjobs don't believe in TV or the internet, so you don't get to hear about them.

Mike Smash!
06-30-2006, 04:48 PM
'scuze me for a sec Mike.

heh.

Sorry, I don't mean to laugh at you, but we very much have our own Falwells. The difference is our conservative nutjobs don't believe in TV or the internet, so you don't get to hear about them.No, that's what I mean.

The Falwells and the Robertsons are unique not because they're nuts. That's nothing unique, but because they've taken advantage of media and reguarly straddle the line between cleric and pundit and actively try to influence the courts or elected officials.

I know of no Jewish Jerry Falwell with a big following that tries to push a fundamentalist agenda down the throats of non-believers, using the media and actively lobbies politicians to adopt their agenda.

That's what I meant by the equivalent of them.

Citizen V
06-30-2006, 06:50 PM
Why is it that the Jews are hated?They are a white,Aryan people..and yet they are dispised as much as the minorties.The Jews are among the oldest people,with a traceable history on Earth.Why would they be hated?

Iangould
07-01-2006, 03:08 AM
Jews are not "aryans". Aryans refer specifically to the Indo-European peoples who migrated from India to the middle east and Europe around 2000-1500BC.

We were already in Israel when the Persians, who are Indo-Europeans, showed up.

Furthermore, there are plenty of Jews who aren't white by any stretch of the imagination: there are Jews from Ethiopia who look black; from India who look Indian and from China and central Asia to who look East Asian.

Some are descended from tribes that converted to Judaism, others are the product of very long periods of intermarriage between Jews and the local population.

The Jews from Biblical times probably looked pretty much like the present day Sephardi and Mizrahi Jews i.e. they looked pretty much like modern-day arabs.

As for anti-semitism in the western world: it really started with the two great Jewish rebelliosn against Rome, the Jewish War of 68-70 AD which ended with the Jews being driven out of Israel and the "Rising of the East" in around 120 AD which involved rebellions in Jewish communities all over the eastern Roman Empire and nearly succeeded in overthrowing Roman power al lthe way from Turkey to Egypt.

Prior to 68 AD Jews had actually had a privileged status in Roman society. Judea was actually a nminally independent kingdom under the rule of the descendants of Herod the Great and as such Jews were treated similarly to Roman citizens.

This was resented by the Greeks, Egyptians, Syrians etc who, for example, had to pay more in tax.

After 70 AD and especially after 120 AD Jews had their former privileges taken away and were treated as inferior.

At the same time, Christianity was spreading. Early on it spread in large part by converting the Jewish communities outside Israel. Naturally, there was always tension between the Jews who took up Christianity and taught that Jesus was the Messiah and the Jews who denied this.

So there was a degree of hostility between Jews and the Christian church almost from the start.

Eventually, Christianity became the state religion of the Roman Empire and all the OTHER non-Christian religions like Mitrhraism, Zoroastrianism and the worship of the greek gods were banned.

Judaism was actually tolerated more than those other religions and Jews still rose to quite prominent positions in society. (By this time, there were Jewish communities all over the middle east; Europe and north Africa. In the cities of Syria and Egypt Jews made up anything up to a quarter of the total population.)

This situation more-or-less lasted until a little before the arrival of Islam. (Now this next bit is going to sound down right screwy to the average person of the 21st century.)

In the fifth and sixth centuries, Persia was a major threat to the Eastern roman Empire and the two fought for centuries over the area roughly covered by modern Syria and Iraq. The Persians were Zoroastrians. Oddly, this meant they had less of a problem with Jews than did the Christians of the Roman Empire - Jews were just another bunch of pagans to them not a continuing question mark over the foundations of their religion.

So the Persians actively cultivated Jewish leaders in the middle east to get support in their wars with the Romans and as a result the Romans (who by this time I should really start calling Byzantines) started regarding the Jews as enemies.

Enter mohammed, who had on occasion fought with Jewish tribes in Arabia but who had also allied with Jews. (In Medina where much of the foundations of Islam were established, there were three tribes of Jews. Two of them sided with the local pagans against the muslims. The third converted to Islam and intermarried with Mohammed's closest companions meaning most of the famous muslim ruling families including the house of Saud are probably of part-Jewish descent.)

Starting late in Mohammed's life aned continuing under his successor Abu Bakr, the muslims unite all the tribes of Arabia and attack both the Romans and the Persians who've pretty much fought each other to the point of exhaustion.

The muslims quickly conquer Persia and the Byazantine provinces of Syria and Egypt. You then have a relative handful of mostly-illiterate camel-herders trying to run highly sophisticated societies with much larger populations that resent them.

Guess who they turn to for help?

As well as actively encouraging muslim converion and co-opting local muslims, the muslim rulers copy the Persian strategy of cultivating the Jews. So you see Jews popping up as governors and prime ministers in muslim states.

Guess how the Romans and the rest of the Christian world react to that?

Fast foward about a century, the muslims have overthrown the short-lived Visigoth (German barbarian) kingdom in North Africa. The Visigoths were hopeless rulers and spent most of their time killing each other. This allowed a small number of arab adventurers to conquer all of North Africa.

About a generation later, the Goths are still hanging on in Spain and still seem more interested in killintg each other than governing.

One particular branch of the Gothic royal family gets screwed over the succession to the throne and invites a Moorish muslim prince over to "mediate" as to who should get the throne. After deep thought, prefiguring Dick Cheney's search for the best possible VP for George Bush, the muslim prince decides that well, HE should be king,

Much bloodshed later the goths depart the pages of history (to have their name swiped a millenium later by neuresthenic posuers) and you have a few thousand moors in control of Spain wondering what the hell they do next. The goths and romanised spaniards who made up the bulk of the "muslim" army are starting to mutter and given them funny looks.

Spain had an unusually large Jewish population even by Roman standards - so guess who the moors looked to to run the country for them.

This brings us up close to the cruasades - and the Jews are all set to be seen as enemies of Christianity and allies of the muslims.

Gideon Quinn
07-01-2006, 03:18 AM
Why is it that the Jews are hated?They are a white,Aryan people..and yet they are dispised as much as the minorties.The Jews are among the oldest people,with a traceable history on Earth.Why would they be hated?Jew denotes one as a practitioner of Judaism, which is the traditional religion of the Hebrews. Hebrews are Semitic (as are their relatives the Arabs). The whole notion of 'Aryan' as a race is an idea that was invented by anti-semites. It holds no factual basis.

- Gideon

Typo Lad
07-01-2006, 07:23 PM
I know of no Jewish Jerry Falwell with a big following that tries to push a fundamentalist agenda down the throats of non-believers, using the media and actively lobbies politicians to adopt their agenda.

That's what I meant by the equivalent of them.

Ah. Okay, point. Most of our fundamentalists ignore non-believers completely (except in the case of the Kach loonies, for target practice).

I suspect that has much to do with the fact that we're a more inward looking faith, believing that good gentiles go to Heaven without our help and that we don't need to convert them all to "save" them.

Typo Lad
07-01-2006, 07:27 PM
Why is it that the Jews are hated?They are a white,Aryan people..and yet they are dispised as much as the minorties.The Jews are among the oldest people,with a traceable history on Earth.Why would they be hated?

Ian and Gideon both cover the falacy of your describing Jews as Aryan, so I'll ignore that except to say don't ever say that to a Jew; they very way may kick your arse.

Ian also does a wonderful history of Jews as the world's wupping boys, but i think it predates that by a while.

Keep in mind that Jews look just like everyone else. We have "weird" practices like "self mutilation (which is why the Greeks outlawed circumcision) and have strange rites and this whole exclusionary faith with just one G-d and one people. Yet despite our differences, we look just like the native populations of the lands we live in. African Jews look African, Indian Jews look Indian, Persian Jews look hot, er I mean Persian....

Basically, we're the other and the same all at once. xenophobes hate that.

StoneGold
07-01-2006, 07:28 PM
Why is it that the Jews are hated?They are a white,Aryan people..and yet they are dispised as much as the minorties.The Jews are among the oldest people,with a traceable history on Earth.Why would they be hated?
The extreme irony is that the answer to this question is ignorance.

Super Hero Guy
07-01-2006, 07:55 PM
Dear Jew,

why do your people no longer offer sacrifices as described in the Torah?

And along with that, what's the deal with sprinkling animal blood all over the place?

Typo Lad
07-01-2006, 08:47 PM
Because the laws of sacrifice apply only during the existence of the Beit Hamigdash (Temple). To give sacrifices outside the temple is a form of sacrilege. The sacrifices have been replaced with specially written services.

No idea about why there's so much blood splatter. You'd have to ask G-d.

Fabian
07-01-2006, 08:57 PM
I just read a newspaper article about Superman being Jewish, is this true? Are the Jews from Krypton and that's how all them built them pyramids? Admit it, Moses used super breath to part the Red Sea.

Mike Smash!
07-01-2006, 10:20 PM
Ah. Okay, point. Most of our fundamentalists ignore non-believers completely (except in the case of the Kach loonies, for target practice).

I suspect that has much to do with the fact that we're a more inward looking faith, believing that good gentiles go to Heaven without our help and that we don't need to convert them all to "save" them.Considering that the Christians and Jews share so much scripture in common, what is it, in your opinion, that has made Judaism an inward religion, when so much of Christianity is so....aggressive with non-believers?

StoneGold
07-01-2006, 11:43 PM
I just read a newspaper article about Superman being Jewish, is this true? Are the Jews from Krypton and that's how all them built them pyramids? Admit it, Moses used super breath to part the Red Sea.
Apparently, there's no evidence that the Hebrews built the pyramids, and in fact, there's some evidence to say that they didn't. However, there also appears to be evidence that they were actually mercenary warriors, and the reason the Egyptians were chasing after them was before they left, they stole the Egyptians blind.

Mike Smash!
07-01-2006, 11:44 PM
. However, there also appears to be evidence that they were actually mercenary warriors.

*ahem*

That's "private military contractor".

StoneGold
07-01-2006, 11:46 PM
*ahem*

That's "private military contractor".
I'm not sure if they had contracts back then. Besides, as they would have been actually fighting for the Egyptian army, the mercenary tag would apply.





Fuck that was anal.

Typo Lad
07-02-2006, 03:48 AM
Considering that the Christians and Jews share so much scripture in common, what is it, in your opinion, that has made Judaism an inward religion, when so much of Christianity is so....aggressive with non-believers?

Probably because Judaism eschews converts and without converts, Christianity would have died stillborn.

Mike Smash!
07-02-2006, 03:52 AM
Probably because Judaism eschews converts and without converts, Christianity would have died stillborn.Could you elaborate?

Typo Lad
07-02-2006, 05:09 AM
Christianity required a constant infusion of new blood early on. That became a core concept. Sort of a Poke-religion "gotta catch 'em all!". That became a core concept, converting the unbeliever. You see traces of it in various Christian concepts like only the "saved" going to heaven or the pre-Vatican II unbaptized babies in Limbo.

Judaism, on the other hand, postulates that G-d wants everyone to be a good person. Non-Jews have 7 commandments (admittedly, one of them is monotheism) which they need to try to keep to the best of their abilities. However, they aren't held to the same "standard" as the "chosen". If someone decides to convert that seek us out, not the other way around. And we make it hard for them too. At our core, we just want everyone to be nice to each other and fit their own niche.

Whereas Christianity is about getting all those square pegs to fit in a round hole. Sometimes at sword-point.

StoneGold
07-02-2006, 10:46 AM
You're missing at least one major aspect Typo: assuming we can believe the texts, Judaism started out as a very clan-based religion. And that aspect has remained, with the sons of Jacob families still playing a part in the religion. If we're still playing with genetic markers a couple of millenia later, that's some serious inward religion type stuff. Thank god for the occasional pogrom rapes to balance out the genetic material, eh?

Bouncing Boy
07-05-2006, 12:20 AM
Dear Jew.

First of all, forgive me if this makes no sense because I'm a little tipsey because I had something to drink and I hardly ever drink...anyway the question is, I know you can't mix meat and dairy, but can you mix meat and soy based products such as soy milk or soy cheese? I'm guessing the answer in yes, but I was just pondering it just now.

Typo Lad
07-05-2006, 02:36 AM
Soy products are pareve (of neutral status), so yeah, a burger with soy cheese or a soy burger with real cheese are good.

Grazzt
07-05-2006, 10:48 AM
Dear Jew,

Are you ever worried that the Messiah will be run over by a car, given God's noted weakness to chariots of iron (Judges 1:19, And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out [the inhabitants of] the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.)?

Mike Smash!
07-05-2006, 10:50 AM
Morts,

Since you've had to check, what the hell sort of meat exactly is in those non-kosher hot dogs, anyways?

Typo Lad
07-05-2006, 10:50 AM
Okay, that was funny.

Typo Lad
07-05-2006, 10:52 AM
Morts,

Since you've had to check, what the hell sort of meat exactly is in those non-kosher hot dogs, anyways?
I don't have to check, thank G-d. Ther certifying agencies do it for me.

Long story short, if you see a U inside an O on your hotdogs, you can besure they're all meat.

No idea what parts, mind you.

The best Kosher hot dogs are A&H though. Awesome stuff. i had a good brand last night, not them. I'll look it up.

Mike Smash!
07-05-2006, 10:54 AM
I don't have to check, thank G-d. Ther certifying agencies do it for me.

Long story short, if you see a U inside an O on your hotdogs, you can besure they're all meat.

No idea what parts, mind you.

The best Kosher hot dogs are A&H though. Awesome stuff. i had a good brand last night, not them. I'll look it up.

So they're still made out of lips, tails and knuckles, just not a pig's lips, tails and knuckles?

Typo Lad
07-05-2006, 11:03 AM
Actually, I think tailis a part that can't be used, and the knuckles would be rendered down to make p'cha (no, not a Klingon dish, but a vile "delacacy").

so mostly lips, I think.

B ut then again, I'm not a weinerologist, so I don't know.

Forefinger
07-05-2006, 11:09 AM
No. That honor goes to Optimus Prime:

http://www.jour.sc.edu/pages/wigginsweb/optimus.jpg
Dear Jew,
Can you explain to me how Optimus Prime is Jewish?

Dreadstar
07-05-2006, 11:11 AM
Dear Jew,
Can you explain to me how Optimus Prime is Jewish?

No fore-plating.

Typo Lad
07-05-2006, 11:14 AM
Dear Jew,
Can you explain to me how Optimus Prime is Jewish?
Because if Family Guiy says so, it must be true:

http://www.seibertron.com/caption/img/030628seibertron.jpg

Forefinger
07-05-2006, 11:19 AM
Because if Family Guiy says so, it must be true:

http://www.seibertron.com/caption/img/030628seibertron.jpg
I guess that answers that eh?

Forefinger
07-05-2006, 11:19 AM
Dear Jew,
If you weren't so devoutly Jewish, would you worship at Peter Griffen's Church of the Fonze?

Typo Lad
07-05-2006, 11:28 AM
Nah. He lost me with the whole Herasy of the Shark.

Forefinger
07-05-2006, 11:29 AM
Right on.

So, who is the most kickass Jew, ever?

Typo Lad
07-05-2006, 11:36 AM
My wife, obviously.

Super Hero Guy
07-05-2006, 04:21 PM
*whip crack*

Dear Jew,

what's the deal with that passage in Genesis where Jacob apparently wrestles God?

Mike Smash!
07-05-2006, 04:30 PM
*whip crack*

Dear Jew,

what's the deal with that passage in Genesis where Jacob apparently wrestles God?

I imagine that Jacob did the job big time for him. Total squash match. God no-sells worse than Hogan.

Typo Lad
07-05-2006, 04:38 PM
what's the deal with that passage in Genesis where Jacob apparently wrestles God?

Actually, Yakov is wrestling with a Malach. This means both an angel or messenger. The traditional teaching is that G-d has an angel assigned to each nation and the "wrestling" was a spiritual battle of wills. The other, less accepted opinion is that it was a flesh and blood messenger from his brother.

Grazzt
07-06-2006, 11:05 AM
Dear Jew,

Which rule in the Bible do you think is least followed amongst the Jewish community?

Also, my previous question hasn't been addressed.

Typo Lad
07-06-2006, 11:21 AM
Which rule in the Bible do you think is least followed amongst the Jewish community?

Hmmm....discarding rules that only apply in biblical times, that'd have to be t'chailit - wearing a 1 blue string in each tzit on a talit katan. For centuries no-one did it as the source oif the die was unknown. Now it's just disputed.

Talit Katan w/o T'chelet:

http://www.jewisheart.com/data/items/woolzizit(1).jpg

Also, my previous question hasn't been addressed.

Must have missed it. What was it?

Typo Lad
07-06-2006, 11:24 AM
Was it this?


Are you ever worried that the Messiah will be run over by a car, given God's noted weakness to chariots of iron (Judges 1:19, And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out [the inhabitants of] the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.)?

Wait, that was a serious question?

The verse is saying that the inhabitants had military superiority. G-d's not allergic to cold iron.

Grazzt
07-06-2006, 11:33 AM
Wait, that was a serious question?

The verse is saying that the inhabitants had military superiority. G-d's not allergic to cold iron.

Nah, it wasn't serious. I was just expecting a joke in response. Though there is a small part of me that wants to post "Transformers vs. God" on Rumbles though.

Gaz
07-06-2006, 11:34 AM
Nah, it wasn't serious. I was just expecting a joke in response. Though there is a small part of me that wants to post "Transformers vs. God" on Rumbles though.
Well, Japan had a bunch of them called God-masters...:p

Super Hero Guy
07-06-2006, 12:16 PM
Dear Jew,

Am I right in my assumption that God choose the Jews to show the way to salvation to the rest of the world?

Typo Lad
07-06-2006, 12:22 PM
That's a very Catholic way of thinking about it. While the Jews are commended to be a "light unto the nations", the existance of a completley seperate set of lawes for Gentiles (the 7 Noahide Laws) has always given me the impression that G-d set the nations of the world their own, easier path to salvation.

We get more of Teacher's attention because He 'spects more from us.

Bouncing Boy
07-07-2006, 12:52 AM
Dear Jew,

I was just discussing Captain Marvel Jr.'s origin, how Freddy Freeman was attacked by Captain Nazi and Captain Marvel gave him some of his powers to save his life and it occured to me...Isn't Freeman a jewish name? Is that why Captain Nazi attacked him? The person who I was talking to wasn't sure if Freeman was a jewish name, so I thought I'd ask you as you might be more likely to know.

Typo Lad
07-07-2006, 01:04 AM
Freeman could be an anglafied version of Freidman, but Captain nazi's attack was utterly random. The Big Red Cheese punched him into a river miles away, and Freddy's grandfather saved him from drowning. To say thanks, he killed Freddy's grandfather and left Freddy for dead.

Mike Smash!
07-07-2006, 01:07 AM
Freeman could be an anglafied version of Freidman, but Captain nazi's attack was utterly random. The Big Red Cheese punched him into a river miles away, and Freddy's grandfather saved him from drowning. To say thanks, he killed Freddy's grandfather and left Freddy for dead.
Nazis are mean.

Josh S
07-07-2006, 01:08 AM
Dear Jew,

Why do you type "G-d" instead of "God"? If you've already answered that, feel free to ignore it. This is the first time I've checked this thread and don't care enough to search for the answer.

Mike Smash!
07-07-2006, 01:13 AM
Dear Jew,

Why do you type "G-d" instead of "God"? If you've already answered that, feel free to ignore it. This is the first time I've checked this thread and don't care enough to search for the answer.
I believe Morts does it as a sign of respect. I'm an Atheist and usually use a lower case "g" when I type it.

Variety is good.

Josh S
07-07-2006, 01:15 AM
Then I have a second question.

Do Jews think it's disrespectful to say "God" (if so why?) or is it just something you personally feel?

ragnarok_2012
07-07-2006, 01:41 AM
I was just wondering why, in your opinion, the jewish people have been so bloody durable and cohesive as a group over centuries even when surrounded by a dominant culture often openly hostile to it (or for that matter when faced with societies that have sought to convert them to christianity through coercion)?

Typo Lad
07-07-2006, 05:44 AM
Why do you type "G-d" instead of "God"? If you've already answered that, feel free to ignore it. This is the first time I've checked this thread and don't care enough to search for the answer.

I've answered it a couple of times. Here's a detailed answer from JewFAQ:

Writing the Name of God

Jews do not casually write any Name of God. This practice does not come from the commandment not to take the Lord's Name in vain, as many suppose. In Jewish thought, that commandment refers solely to oath-taking, and is a prohibition against swearing by God's Name falsely or frivolously (the word normally translated as "in vain" literally means "for falsehood").

Judaism does not prohibit writing the Name of God per se; it prohibits only erasing or defacing a Name of God. However, observant Jews avoid writing any Name of God casually because of the risk that the written Name might later be defaced, obliterated or destroyed accidentally or by one who does not know better.

The commandment not to erase or deface the name of God comes from Deut. 12:3. In that passage, the people are commanded that when they take over the promised land, they should destroy all things related to the idolatrous religions of that region, and should utterly destroy the names of the local deities. Immediately afterwards, we are commanded not to do the same to our God. From this, the rabbis inferred that we are commanded not to destroy any holy thing, and not to erase or deface a Name of God.

It is worth noting that this prohibition against erasing or defacing Names of God applies only to Names that are written in some kind of permanent form, and recent rabbinical decisions have held that writing on a computer is not a permanent form, thus it is not a violation to type God's Name into a computer and then backspace over it or cut and paste it, or copy and delete files with God's Name in them. However, once you print the document out, it becomes a permanent form. That is why observant Jews avoid writing a Name of God on web sites like this one or in newsgroup messages: because there is a risk that someone else will print it out and deface it.

Normally, we avoid writing the Name by substituting letters or syllables, for example, writing "G-d" instead of "God." In addition, the number 15, which would ordinarily be written in Hebrew as Yod-Heh (10-5), is normally written as Tet-Vav (9-6), because Yod-Heh is a Name. See Hebrew Alphabet for more information about using letters as numerals.

I I'm an Atheist and usually use a lower case "g" when I type it.


Fun Fact: When refering to other "deities", jews will type god in lowercase as well. For example, the Greek god Apollo.


Do Jews think it's disrespectful to say "God" (if so why?) or is it just something you personally feel?

aaaand JewFAQ again:


Nothing in the Torah prohibits a person from pronouncing the Name of God. Indeed, it is evident from scripture that God's Name was pronounced routinely. Many common Hebrew names contain "Yah" or "Yahu," part of God's four-letter Name. The Name was pronounced as part of daily services in the Temple.

The Mishnah confirms that there was no prohibition against pronouncing The Name in ancient times. In fact, the Mishnah recommends using God's Name as a routine greeting to a fellow Jew. Berakhot 9:5. However, by the time of the Talmud, it was the custom to use substitute Names for God. Some rabbis asserted that a person who pronounces YHVH according to its letters (instead of using a substitute) has no place in the World to Come, and should be put to death. Instead of pronouncing the four-letter Name, we usually substitute the Name "Adonai," or simply say "Ha-Shem" (lit. The Name).

Although the prohibition on pronunciation applies only to the four-letter Name, Jews customarily do not pronounce any of God's many Names except in prayer or study. The usual practice is to substitute letters or syllables, so that Adonai becomes Adoshem or Ha-Shem, Elohaynu and Elohim become Elokaynu and Elokim, etc.


So basically, we say G-d because it's not G-d's actual name. However, the most commonly used name is HaShem, the name.

Typo Lad
07-07-2006, 05:46 AM
I was just wondering why, in your opinion, the jewish people have been so bloody durable and cohesive as a group over centuries even when surrounded by a dominant culture often openly hostile to it (or for that matter when faced with societies that have sought to convert them to christianity through coercion)?

In my opinion? G-d's mercy. Seriously.

Sam
07-07-2006, 06:29 AM
So basically, we say G-d because it's not G-d's actual name.

This may have already been asked, but if God is not God's actual name, why is it against the rules to write it?

Typo Lad
07-07-2006, 06:34 AM
Becasue it's still representative of G-d.

Why yes, the logic is rather circular, why do you ask?

That said, it's not against the "rules", it's just customary.

Bouncing Boy
07-07-2006, 09:05 AM
Freeman could be an anglafied version of Freidman, but Captain nazi's attack was utterly random. The Big Red Cheese punched him into a river miles away, and Freddy's grandfather saved him from drowning. To say thanks, he killed Freddy's grandfather and left Freddy for dead.
Yes, I knew that much, but I was thinking what if the reason he attacked them after they saved him is he realized they were jewish. And interestingly enough, when I was talking about this, I had misrememberd Freddy's last name as Freidman.

Typo Lad
07-07-2006, 09:09 AM
Nope. It was a random "look! Nazi's are eeeevil" moment as I recall.

Bouncing Boy
07-07-2006, 09:15 AM
Nope. It was a random "look! Nazi's are eeeevil" moment as I recall.
It is interesting though that they gave Freddy an anglafied version of a jewish name though. And it would be interesting to have a modern writer explore that aspect of the character and have Freddy be jewish. Or at least have him go back and discover his roots.

Wesley Dodds
07-07-2006, 09:27 AM
Dear Jew,

I've been reading Cerebus.

Dave talks about how YHWH is actually a kind of female demiurge and the Jews got in trouble for worshiping her. Because she's not actually God. And that the Holocaust happened because they worshipped YHWH.

If I was to try to argue with Dave Sim about this, what points would I have to make?

Typo Lad
07-07-2006, 09:36 AM
I've been reading Cerebus.

You have my condolences.

Dave talks about how YHWH is actually a kind of female demiurge and the Jews got in trouble for worshiping her. Because she's not actually God. And that the Holocaust happened because they worshipped YHWH.

Thank you. I needed a laugh.

G-d is genderless. Sheesh.

If I was to try to argue with Dave Sim about this, what points would I have to make?

Honey-child, if you're going to try to argue with Dave Sim, no advice I can give you will help. Why not just bash your head against a brick wall? It'd be faster and less painful.

Lubichev
07-07-2006, 09:42 AM
Why not just bash your head against a brick wall? It'd be faster and less painful.
And more entertaining.....

Mike Smash!
07-07-2006, 11:11 AM
Could scratching out the "o" be considering defacing the name of God?

So basically, we say G-d because it's not G-d's actual name. However, the most commonly used name is HaShem, the name.I thought the name of the Hebrew God was Yahweh (or Jehovah).

I've always wondered, why does the Judeo-Christian God have so many names or just go by "God" when others faiths like Islam give their deity a specific name (Allah)?

Do you consider your God to be the same one worshipped by Christians and Muslims?

Mike Smash!
07-07-2006, 11:13 AM
Nope. It was a random "look! Nazi's are eeeevil" moment as I recall.

Captain Nazi is mean. I hope the Blues Brothers chase him into the river with their car.

Mike Smash!
07-07-2006, 11:14 AM
Honey-child, if you're going to try to argue with Dave Sim, no advice I can give you will help. Why not just bash your head against a brick wall? It'd be faster and less painful.Much less argue with Dave Sim about gender.

Gah.

Typo Lad
07-07-2006, 11:23 AM
Could scratching out the "o" be considering defacing the name of God?

No, because that's not His name. His name'd be in Hebrew, for one thing. G-d is a uniquely english word.

I thought the name of the Hebrew God was Yahweh (or Jehovah).

No...exactly.

JewFAQ strikes again!

I have often heard people refer to the Judeo-Christian God as "the nameless God" to contrast our God with the ancient pagan gods. I always found this odd, because Judaism clearly recognizes the existence of a Name for God; in fact, we have many Names for God.

The most important of God's Names is the four-letter Name represented by the Hebrew letters Yod-Heh-Vav-Heh (YHVH). It is often referred to as the Ineffable Name, the Unutterable Name or the Distinctive Name. Linguistically, it is related to the Hebrew root Heh-Yod-Heh (to be), and reflects the fact that God's existence is eternal. In scripture, this Name is used when discussing God's relation with human beings, and when emphasizing his qualities of lovingkindness and mercy. It is frequently shortened to Yah (Yod-Heh), Yahu or Yeho (Yod-Heh-Vav), especially when used in combination with names or phrases, as in Yehoshua (Joshua, meaning "the Lord is my Salvation"), Eliyahu (Elijah, meaning "my God is the Lord"), and Halleluyah ("praise the Lord").

The first Name used for God in scripture is Elohim. In form, the word is a masculine plural of a word that looks feminine in the singular (Eloha). The same word (or, according to Rambam, a homonym of it) is used to refer to princes, judges, other gods, and other powerful beings. This Name is used in scripture when emphasizing God's might, His creative power, and his attributes of justice and rulership. Variations on this name include El, Eloha, Elohai (my God) and Elohaynu (our God).

God is also known as El Shaddai. This Name is usually translated as "God Almighty," however, the derivation of the word "Shaddai" is not known. According to some views, it is derived from the root meaning "to heap benefits." According a Midrash, it means, "The One who said 'dai'" ("dai" meaning enough or sufficient) and comes from the fact that when God created the universe, it expanded until He said "DAI!" (perhaps the first recorded theory of an expanding universe?). The name Shaddai is the one written on the mezuzah scroll. Some note that Shaddai is an acronym of Shomer Daltot Yisrael, Guardian of the Doors of Israel.

Another significant Name of God is YHVH Tzva'ot. This Name is normally translated as "Lord of Hosts." The word "tzva'ot" means "hosts" in the sense of a military grouping or an organized array. The Name refers to God's leadership and sovereignty. Interestingly, this Name is rarely used in scripture. It never appears in the Torah (i.e., the first five books). It appears primarily in the prophetic books of Isaiah, Jeremiah, Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi, as well as many times in the Psalms.

I've always wondered, why does the Judeo-Christian God have so many names or just go by "God" when others faiths like Islam give their deity a specific name (Allah)?

The names of G-d each refer to a specific aspect of G-d. There's one name used when one is refering to His merciful nature, and another when refering to Him as He who Judges... etc.

Do you consider your God to be the same one worshipped by Christians and Muslims?

I consider my G-d to be the one G-d. While C.S. Lewis's "Everything good, even if not done in the name of Aslan is as thought it was done in the name of Aslan is nice", it's not a Jewish concept.

However, as many commentaries say that the first Nahide Commandment "Believe in G-d" is a command to be a monotheist rather than a command to specifically recognize the validity of HaShem, one could say that theya re observing that commandment.

Did I make any sense?

Typo Lad
07-07-2006, 11:26 AM
Captain Nazi is mean. I hope the Blues Brothers chase him into the river with their car.

I would totally buy that crossover book.

Much less argue with Dave Sim about gender.

Gah.

It'd be like watching "The Argument Clinic" sketch as performed by the ravenous bugbladder beast of Traghl and a small ferret.

LtMarvel
07-07-2006, 11:51 AM
Yes, I knew that much, but I was thinking what if the reason he attacked them after they saved him is he realized they were jewish. And interestingly enough, when I was talking about this, I had misrememberd Freddy's last name as Freidman.
In the original (recreated for our times in the Power of Shazam! series), Freddy and his grandfather are fishing and see a man fall out of the sky into the water. They rescue him, and as soon as Captain Nazi revives, he attacks them both and takes the boat. The grandfather dies, and Freddy almost dies. Billy (with Mary's help in the modern version) uses the Shazam powers to save Freddy....

Gargus
07-07-2006, 04:31 PM
Do jewish people really keep a bag of jew gold around their neck?

If so do they have a bag of fake jew gold also so the real gold isnt stolen?

Jeff Brady
07-07-2006, 04:40 PM
Do jewish people really keep a bag of jew gold around their neck?

If so do they have a bag of fake jew gold also so the real gold isnt stolen?

Thank you for watching South Park.

The answers are "no" to both.

Solaris
07-07-2006, 04:50 PM
Do jewish people really keep a bag of jew gold around their neck?

If so do they have a bag of fake jew gold also so the real gold isnt stolen?


Answer: Only the Jewish Leprechauns do this.

Solaris
07-07-2006, 04:58 PM
No, because that's not His name. His name'd be in Hebrew, for one thing. G-d is a uniquely english word.



No...exactly.

JewFAQ strikes again!





The names of G-d each refer to a specific aspect of G-d. There's one name used when one is refering to His merciful nature, and another when refering to Him as He who Judges... etc.



I consider my G-d to be the one G-d. While C.S. Lewis's "Everything good, even if not done in the name of Aslan is as thought it was done in the name of Aslan is nice", it's not a Jewish concept.

However, as many commentaries say that the first Nahide Commandment "Believe in G-d" is a command to be a monotheist rather than a command to specifically recognize the validity of HaShem, one could say that theya re observing that commandment.

Did I make any sense?


In a rather interesting side note...

In the Honor Harrington series by David Weber, Grayson's Church of Humanity Unchained called God by three faces and names: The Tester, the Intercessor, and the Comforter. And unlike many churches who refer to theirs as "Mother" Church, even though their religions are patriarchical, the Grayson's called theirs "Father Church."

By the way... the Wikipedia entry on "The Church of Humanity Unchained" is quite fascinating... if you don't mind getting some series spoilers.

ragnarok_2012
07-07-2006, 05:13 PM
In a rather interesting side note...

In the Honor Harrington series by David Weber, Grayson's Church of Humanity Unchained called God by three faces and names: The Tester, the Intercessor, and the Comforter. And unlike many churches who refer to theirs as "Mother" Church, even though their religions are patriarchical, the Grayson's called theirs "Father Church."

By the way... the Wikipedia entry on "The Church of Humanity Unchained" is quite fascinating... if you don't mind getting some series spoilers.

I LOVE the Church of Humanity Unchained. Well, the "moderate" version of it :D

Gargus
07-07-2006, 05:22 PM
Thank you for watching South Park.

The answers are "no" to both.

I couldnt help myself.

Mike Smash!
07-08-2006, 12:42 AM
Do jewish people really keep a bag of jew gold around their neck?

If so do they have a bag of fake jew gold also so the real gold isnt stolen?I believe you're thinking of Leprechauns.

Iangould
07-08-2006, 01:15 AM
Do jewish people really keep a bag of jew gold around their neck?

If so do they have a bag of fake jew gold also so the real gold isnt stolen?

Around our neck?

no.

the invincible ironfran-cis
07-08-2006, 02:11 AM
I need some translation help. I'm originally from Borough Park Brooklyn; and I've always appreciated the melting pot of language (really catch phrases) that you ultimately acquire as a kid growing up there.

Seems like every ethinicity contributes to the everyday language we all sort of used, jewish, italian, etc, or not. Wasn't always nice language mind you; but it was what we used.


You'll note, words like: (I'll spell phonetically for now)

"Ah-gi-tuh" and "Mod-done!" from Italians

"Wise-en-hym-er" and "Sneak-al-fritz" from Germans

"Schmuck!" from Jews


So my question is: what exactly is a schmuck? I've always used it as description of a very feebleminded person.

Mike Smash!
07-08-2006, 02:22 AM
So my question is: what exactly is a schmuck?

Take your pick.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d4/George-W-Bush.jpeg/300px-George-W-Bush.jpeghttp://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/regent/the_hunting_of_the_president/hillary_clinton/hunting2.jpg

the invincible ironfran-cis
07-08-2006, 02:30 AM
Take your pick.



Very funny Mike.

Dude, you've got to be working overtime for the Green Party now though. Seriously, do you ever sleep (not that I should talk)? Nader would never ask this much of you. Your in the "Ask the Jew" thread. Do Jews vote Green--that's a better question perhaps.

I'd like to know where the Jews stand on environment issues as a constituency.

the invincible ironfran-cis
07-08-2006, 03:50 AM
Also: what is a "shix-uh?"

Mike Smash!
07-08-2006, 04:14 AM
Very funny Mike.

Dude, you've got to be working overtime for the Green Party now though. Seriously, do you ever sleep (not that I should talk)? Nader would never ask this much of you. Your in the "Ask the Jew" thread. Do Jews vote Green--that's a better question perhaps.

I'd like to know where the Jews stand on environment issues as a constituency.This really isn't my thread to answer that, but yeah, I'm very busy working on a Green U.S. Senate campaign right now. And we do have stances on every issue, not just environmental concerns.

The Greens have run prominent Jewish candidates in the past, like the late Al Lewis for Governor of New York in 1998.

As for where Jews stand on environmental issues, I imagine that depends on the individual Jew him/herself. I've never seen an entire religion take any stand on such a thing before. Hell, even social issue stances differ from sect to sect and individual congregation to individual congregation...

Like anyone, Christians, Atheists, Muslims, Pagans...etc., I would guess that Jews fall on all different points of the political spectrum, from the most reactionary Jewish ultraconservative to Jewish libertarians, socialists, progressives and moderates.

It's not so much the religion itself, but the branch of it that determines political leaning. After all, where do Christians stand on the war in Iraq?

Answer? Depends on the individual Christian.

Iangould
07-08-2006, 05:23 AM
Also: what is a "shix-uh?"

A shicksah is a non-Jewish woman.

It's probably also the origin of the slang term "chick" for a young woman.

Forefinger
07-08-2006, 05:33 AM
Take your pick.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d4/George-W-Bush.jpeg/300px-George-W-Bush.jpeghttp://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/regent/the_hunting_of_the_president/hillary_clinton/hunting2.jpg
Kill and skullfuck both....

Mike Smash!
07-08-2006, 11:34 AM
Kill and skullfuck both....Well, I hope your cell at Gitmo is comfy.

the invincible ironfran-cis
07-08-2006, 03:40 PM
Well, this isn't a cop out, but I think pretty much everyone wishes the war would end already. Even if it's only because of Korea looming on the horizon.

I didn't realize Grandpa was a Green. He was a good grizzled old New Yorker. Everybody loved him.

And I realize of course that Greens take a stand on more than just the environment--but that is the namesake isn't it?



This really isn't my thread to answer that, but yeah, I'm very busy working on a Green U.S. Senate campaign right now. And we do have stances on every issue, not just environmental concerns.

The Greens have run prominent Jewish candidates in the past, like the late Al Lewis for Governor of New York in 1998.

As for where Jews stand on environmental issues, I imagine that depends on the individual Jew him/herself. I've never seen an entire religion take any stand on such a thing before. Hell, even social issue stances differ from sect to sect and individual congregation to individual congregation...

Like anyone, Christians, Atheists, Muslims, Pagans...etc., I would guess that Jews fall on all different points of the political spectrum, from the most reactionary Jewish ultraconservative to Jewish libertarians, socialists, progressives and moderates.

It's not so much the religion itself, but the branch of it that determines political leaning. After all, where do Christians stand on the war in Iraq?

Answer? Depends on the individual Christian.

the invincible ironfran-cis
07-08-2006, 03:43 PM
A shicksah is a non-Jewish woman.

It's probably also the origin of the slang term "chick" for a young woman.

That's interesting--the etymology. Thank you! What about schmuck though?

LtMarvel
07-08-2006, 04:43 PM
So, is this wedding (http://www.notmuch.com/Show/AK_wedding.htm)legit in your faith? I heard the show today and thought it was a great ceremony in a terrific show...

Clint Barton
07-08-2006, 04:48 PM
Dear Mr. Jew,

Did you find any of the Seinfeld episodes (ex. "The Mohel") which made fun of Judaism offensive?

Why or why not?

Typo Lad
07-08-2006, 07:17 PM
So my question is: what exactly is a schmuck? I've always used it as description of a very feebleminded person.

Shmuck literally means "penis" in Yiddish. Basically, Superman is a Shmuck. Got it?

Also: what is a "shix-uh?"

Originally Yiddish for a Jewish lady who acted improperly, generally regarding sex. Male form would be Shaygitz. Recently, it has altered in meaning to simply mean "non-Jewish girl". It is not meant in a complimentary fashion, obviously, so I find the use by non-Jews to describe themselves top be humorous.

Typo Lad
07-08-2006, 07:19 PM
Do Jews vote Green--that's a better question perhaps.

I suspect some more Zionist Jews wouldn't, as the Green party's policy on Israel is less than in line with their thinking.

I'd like to know where the Jews stand on environment issues as a constituency.

Heh.

The world is on loan from G-d and it's our responsibility, Jew and Non-Jew, to take good care of it until he asks for it back.

Typo Lad
07-08-2006, 07:23 PM
So, is this wedding (http://www.notmuch.com/Show/AK_wedding.htm)legit in your faith? I heard the show today and thought it was a great ceremony in a terrific show...

I dunno. Was the guy a Rabbi?

Typo Lad
07-08-2006, 07:24 PM
Dear Mr. Jew,

Did you find any of the Seinfeld episodes (ex. "The Mohel") which made fun of Judaism offensive?

Why or why not?

I did not watch any Seinfeld episodes. I found the entire show to be unfunny, frankly.

Not offensive, just unfunny.

Now The nanny, that was offensive.

LtMarvel
07-08-2006, 07:33 PM
I dunno. Was the guy a Rabbi?
Nope. The Jewish guy and his non-Jewish wife were married by the Jewish comedian (taking advantage of an Alaskan law allowing anyone to get a liscense to marry). The show will be up on the website next week.

Typo Lad
07-08-2006, 07:39 PM
I see no reson why it wouldn't be valid.

The kids, however, would not be Jewish.

Forefinger
07-08-2006, 09:13 PM
Well, I hope your cell at Gitmo is comfy.
Naw. I meant "Kill" like in "kill with kindness".

Grazzt
07-08-2006, 09:15 PM
I see no reson why it wouldn't be valid.

The kids, however, would not be Jewish.

What would be required for the kids to be Je