Let's Play "Ask The Jew"!

[Nate C.]

Sorry, Morts. I wasn't trying to call you out or anything.

I'm failing in my faith, too, in lots and lots of ways. :)

[Bouncing Boy]

Dear Jew,

As far as kosher goes, are eggs considered dairy, meat, or neither. I know that some nutritionists consider them to be part of the dairy group, but I think I've seen them classified as meat as well.

[Paul McEnery]

I've always noticed a nice breeze in the nether regions.
Put your pants on, dammit!

[MacQuarrie]

The above translation is generally accepted, but is disputed. Therefor European Jews will not eat any insects, as there is no tradition as to what the actual insects are (King James translation notwithstanding). Some Sephardic Jews claim to have a Messorah (tradition)with that the grasshoper mentioned is a specific species and that it's okay.
That was the New International Version (very goy). I'll let you llok up whatever version you like.

And you gotta watch those Sephardic. (Terri's one.)

[Typo Lad]

Dear Jew,

As far as kosher goes, are eggs considered dairy, meat, or neither. I know that some nutritionists consider them to be part of the dairy group, but I think I've seen them classified as meat as well.

Neutral.

Don't ask me why, I always thought it odd.

[Nate C.]

Okay, Morts. Here goes.

In Christian thought, there are natural laws and spiritual laws. Natural laws are set in motion by God and dictate the world around us as we see it in everyday life. Spiritual laws are when God breaks into human history to cause an event, allow an event, etc. either on a large scale (Jesus being born, Moses parting the Red Sea, Paul's vision on the road to Damascus) or a small scale (healing a child, stopping a truck, etc.). There are other qualifiers, (like how God uses different epochs of time to communicate differently to humanity) but that's the gist.

A branch of Christian thought is deism. It's an Enlightenment convention using science and rationality as its premise and states that God set the world in motion (natural laws) and for the most part keeps his hands off. The degree to which God is hands off varies by the deist (kind of like nailing an existentialist down) but the idea that God is unconcerned with the small details of his individual followers is the main difference.

Now, on the other thread (West's), you mentioned that you feel that you do not know the will of God and that the best you can do is to do your best (I'm probably putting words in your mouth here, so help me out).

Then, you give an example in which you explain God's providence in your marriage. (is providence a Christian concept; surely not)

So help us out, Ol buddy. Is there a concept of deism in orthodox Judaism, and if so, explain. If not, explain. Explain all!!!!!

[Sandy Hausler]

The irony of that being that I have YET to meet a Jew who finds the cerification on Hebrew National (and Ballpark, btw) to be reliable.

Well, now that they have changed to the Triangle K, there may be some who find it reliable. It's still not glatt, but not everybody thinks that's necessary. (I don't.)

Sandy Hausler

[Typo Lad]

In the words of Deep Thought:

"Tricky..."

It might be easier to say that Judiasm believes in an Age of Miracles and an Age of Deism. At a certain point (and I forget when, because I am teh suck) G-d began only performing what are commonly refered to as "hidden" miracles - the every day stuff that we take for granted (meeting your beloved, for example). The "big stuff" isn't done anymore.

You should know, many people who left Judiasm after the Holocaust were disolusioned specifically because G-d didn't ride down on a white Charger and rescue them.

[Typo Lad]

Well, now that they have changed to the Triangle K, there may be some who find it reliable. It's still not glatt, but not everybody thinks that's necessary. (I don't.)

They dropped Rabbi Small (that was what I think his name was)?

Woa.

That's a MAJOR difference.

I don't hold by Triangle K, but know many people who would never have touched a HNHD who now will.

Cool beans.

Now if only Triangle K would somehow vanish and HN and Hostess would have no choice but to take on a Certifier I DID hold by...

[Nate C.]

[QUOTE=Morts]In the words of Deep Thought:

"Tricky..."

It might be easier to say that Judiasm believes in an Age of Miracles and an Age of Deism. At a certain point (and I forget when, because I am teh suck) G-d began only performing what are commonly refered to as "hidden" miracles - the every day stuff that we take for granted (meeting your beloved, for example). The "big stuff" isn't done anymore.

That's similar to Orthodoxy in places. "Epochs of Time" is our phrase, but the ideas are similar.

A pessimistic perspecitve is that Judaism has been on pause for 4,000 years and Christianity for 2,000. (for the big stuff)




You should know, many people who left Judiasm after the Holocaust were disolusioned specifically because G-d didn't ride down on a white Charger and rescue them.

I get that. I read Elie Weisel's Night (but have not read Day, although I understand he too has come to terms with what God did not do.)

[Dom]

Dr. Jew,

what's my lucky number?

[Typo Lad]

[QUOTE]
That's similar to Orthodoxy in places. "Epochs of Time" is our phrase, but the ideas are similar.

Facinating.

A pessimistic perspecitve is that Judaism has been on pause for 4,000 years and Christianity for 2,000. (for the big stuff)

Yeah? Yeah? Well... um... my G-d can beat up your G-d!

I get that. I read Elie Weisel's Night (but have not read Day,

You're a better man than I. I read on Weisel book in HS and remember nothing. I was talking from people I've met.

although I understand he too has come to terms with what God did not do.)

Good. I hope he also came to terms with the fact that G-d may have not only "let" the Holocaust happen, he may have done it for an actual reason, scary as that is to imagine.

What reason needs ten million souls...?

[Typo Lad]

Dr. Jew,

Please, I'm not a doctor. My mother wishes!

what's my lucky number?

666, but don't take any hidden meaning from that.

[Nate C.]

Hey, Morts. Do you know how many Holocoaust survivors live in the entire state of Mississippi?

[Typo Lad]

Hey, Morts. Do you know how many Holocoaust survivors live in the entire state of Mississippi?

I have... no idea. Why do you even ask?

[Dom]

I have... no idea. Why do you even ask?


You're not a Doctor?

Oy! I'm going to plotz.

[Nate C.]

I have... no idea. Why do you even ask?

Because I know. (and now I know that you don't)




waits to be asked and runs away like a little girl and pouts in corner.

[Typo Lad]

Because I know.

Why? Are you engaged in some sort of catch and release program?

(and now I know that you don't)

There are many people out there who know things that I don't. It's not as great a challenge as I wish it were.

waits to be asked and runs away like a little girl and pouts in corner.[/quote]

You better not be implying that only little girls pout and have hissies, because I have plenty of nephews....

[Nate C.]

LOLOL.

My answer may have to wait till tommorrow.

and no, i just run like a little girl.

[MacQuarrie]

Yeah? Yeah? Well... um... my G-d can beat up your G-d!
Your G-d IS my G-d! We just have different business before Him.

[Tages]

Dear Jew,

What are a Jew's duties in raising children if his or her spouse is a gentile?

[Typo Lad]

Your G-d IS my G-d! We just have different business before Him.

Debatable.

no, i just run like a little girl.

You mean really really fast and usually after kicking some other little kid in the shins?

[Typo Lad]

What are a Jew's duties in raising children if his or her spouse is a gentile?

Oh dear. Tricky question that's going to make me feel like an asshole.

First answer: If s/he's so concerned about raising her/his child Jewish, s/he should have married a Jewish person.

Yeah, that's the simplistic version.

Long version?

If a guy marries a Non-Jewish woman, then he has no responsibility to raise his child Jewish, because the child isn't. Judaism goes by matrilineal descent. In cases where this happens it's the rest of the family that usually has trouble(and I know of what I speak, as I have two uncles who married non-Jewish women, one on each side). Initially, my paternal grandparents were told not to have contact with their son after he inter-married. The line of thinking of the Rabbi involved was that if they felt they could not speak to him without reacting in anger, then they should just not. Later, when my cousin was born, The Rabbi informed them that they had a responsibility to get to know their grandson - and to make sure he was aware that he was not, in fact Jewish.

His name's Matthew and he's a great kid - heck, he's not a kid anymore. Great guy. Proud to have him as a cousin. But he's not Jewish.

If a Jewish woman marries a non-Jewish man, then I hope they chose to relate to the child that s/he is considered Jewish in the eyes of other Jews and educate them about their heratage. But I'm not ballsy enough to say they MUST.

We once had two guests over when I was a kid. Both had been at family weddings when they made fascinating discoveries: In her case, it was that she was jewish. In his, it was that he wasn't.

[Bouncing Boy]

Neutral.

Don't ask me why, I always thought it odd.

Neutral makes sense to me actually since there seems to be some debate on whether it's dairy or meat. What would you classify it as?

[MacQuarrie]

Debatable.
Maybe, though I think the primary difference between our relative belief systems hangs much more on the identity and intentions of the Messiah than on the identity and intentions of El Shaddai.

[DarkBlade]

Morts, how's it work if you have a child out of wedlock?

Also, what if the kid was raised jewish and keeps commandments, kosher, all the things you are supposed to do? Is the poor kid SOL anyway?

[Typo Lad]

Morts, how's it work if you have a child out of wedlock?

Not too familiar with the rules, actually. If the mom's Jewish, s/he's still Jewish though.

Also, what if the kid was raised jewish and keeps commandments, kosher, all the things you are supposed to do? Is the poor kid SOL anyway?

What, an out of wedlock kid? Dunno. One interesting thing is that he's not TECHNICALLY a "bastard".

From JewFAQ:

The minimum age for marriage under Jewish law is 13 for boys, 12 for girls; however, the kiddushin can take place before that, and often did in medieval times. The Talmud recommends that a man marry at age 18, or somewhere between 16 and 24.

The Torah sets forth a laundry list of prohibited relations. Such marriages are never valid. A man cannot marry certain close blood relatives, the ex-wives of certain close blood relatives, a woman who has not been validly divorced from her previous husband, the daughter or granddaughter of his ex-wife, or the sister of his ex-wife during the ex-wife's life time. For a complete list, see 613 Mitzvot (Commandments).

The offspring of such a marriage are mamzerim (bastards, illegitimate), and subject to a variety of restrictions; however it is important to note that only the offspring of these incestuous or forbidden marriages are mamzerim. Children born out of wedlock are not mamzerim in Jewish law and bear no stigma, unless the marriage would have been prohibited for the reasons above. Children of a married man and a woman who is not his wife are not mamzerim (because the marriage between the parents would not have been prohibited), although children of a married woman and a man who is not her husband are mamzerim (because she could not have married him).

There are other classes of marriages that are not permitted, but that are valid if they occur and that do not make the children mamzerim. The marriage of minors, of a Jew to a non-Jew, and of a kohein to the prohibited classes of women discussed below fall into this category.

A kohein is not permitted to marry a divorcee, a convert, a promiscuous woman, a woman who is the offspring of a forbidden marriage to a kohein, or a woman who is the widow of a man who died childless but who has been released from the obligation to marry her husband's brother. A kohein who marries such a woman is disqualified from his duties as a kohein, as are all the offspring of that marriage.

[Sandy Hausler]

Not too familiar with the rules, actually. If the mom's Jewish, s/he's still Jewish though.



What, an out of wedlock kid? Dunno. One interesting thing is that he's not TECHNICALLY a "bastard".

From JewFAQ:

The minimum age for marriage under Jewish law is 13 for boys, 12 for girls; however, the kiddushin can take place before that, and often did in medieval times. The Talmud recommends that a man marry at age 18, or somewhere between 16 and 24.

The Torah sets forth a laundry list of prohibited relations. Such marriages are never valid. A man cannot marry certain close blood relatives, the ex-wives of certain close blood relatives, a woman who has not been validly divorced from her previous husband, the daughter or granddaughter of his ex-wife, or the sister of his ex-wife during the ex-wife's life time. For a complete list, see 613 Mitzvot (Commandments).

The offspring of such a marriage are mamzerim (bastards, illegitimate), and subject to a variety of restrictions; however it is important to note that only the offspring of these incestuous or forbidden marriages are mamzerim. Children born out of wedlock are not mamzerim in Jewish law and bear no stigma, unless the marriage would have been prohibited for the reasons above. Children of a married man and a woman who is not his wife are not mamzerim (because the marriage between the parents would not have been prohibited), although children of a married woman and a man who is not her husband are mamzerim (because she could not have married him).

There are other classes of marriages that are not permitted, but that are valid if they occur and that do not make the children mamzerim. The marriage of minors, of a Jew to a non-Jew, and of a kohein to the prohibited classes of women discussed below fall into this category.

A kohein is not permitted to marry a divorcee, a convert, a promiscuous woman, a woman who is the offspring of a forbidden marriage to a kohein, or a woman who is the widow of a man who died childless but who has been released from the obligation to marry her husband's brother. A kohein who marries such a woman is disqualified from his duties as a kohein, as are all the offspring of that marriage.

I think you missed the question that was asked. A child who is not halachically Jewish, but who observes Jewish law, is not out of luck. He or she can convert to Judaism. If that person is observant in any degree at some point it will become evident to him or her that she is not a Jew in the halachic sense.

Sandy Hausler

[Typo Lad]

I think you missed the question that was asked.

Possible. I'm slow today.

A child who is not halachically Jewish, but who observes Jewish law, is not out of luck. He or she can convert to Judaism. If that person is observant in any degree at some point it will become evident to him or her that she is not a Jew in the halachic sense.

Yeah, I thought I had mentioned that at some point. That story I told earlier about the guy who found out he wasn't Jewihs? That's exactly what happened. He wasn't aware of the laws of martrilinial descent. When he learned of them, he realized he was not, in fact, Jewish. He converted. He's currently married with kids and living in Israel. REALLY cool guy.

[DarkBlade]

Sorry, I didn't differentiate my second question very well. I didn't know if there was some sort of extra "no matzah for you!" clause.

[Super Hero Guy]

Ok, here's something I've been wanting to ask, what's the deal with those passages in the Torah that seem to imply that there is more than one god, just that yours is the best? (ie, the Pharaoh's god perforing "miracles" for him)

[fly on the wall]

Ok, here's something I've been wanting to ask, what's the deal with those passages in the Torah that seem to imply that there is more than one god, just that yours is the best? (ie, the Pharaoh's god perforing "miracles" for him)

Excellent question.

I've heard that the monotheistic religions developed from polytheistic religions and there are clues to that in a few places in the Bible.

But if you think about it, Polytheistic religions developed from monotheistic religions colliding. For instance one tribe worships Hera monotheistically and one tribe worships Zeus monotheistically. Thetwo tribes unite and then suddenly Hera marries Zeus and later they have babies as the tribe joins with other tribes. There is even some backtracking to make some of the incoming gods fathers and grandfathers of Zeus.

In another example you have the Jewish monotheistic god becoming the sort of polytheistic Trinity in Christianity.

And even the Jews and the Muslims allow for Angels and Demons and Satan, so these monotheistic religions have pantheons even if they are not pantheons of "Gods".

[DarkBlade]

Ok, here's something I've been wanting to ask, what's the deal with those passages in the Torah that seem to imply that there is more than one god, just that yours is the best? (ie, the Pharaoh's god perforing "miracles" for him)
What's wrong with that?

Granted, I'll disagree on the best pov, but *shrug* Don't really expect a deity to say "Those guys are better, follow me anyway!"

Hopefully that was not offensive to Morts... it is NOT meant to be.

[DarkBlade]

Fly: Hrm, generally speaking it's thought to go the other way around...

[Xombie]

Ok, here's something I've been wanting to ask, what's the deal with those passages in the Torah that seem to imply that there is more than one god, just that yours is the best? (ie, the Pharaoh's god perforing "miracles" for him)

IIRC the story is based on an another story where the view of the times was that each god lived in their own region. The thing that was suppose to make the Jewish God such a badass was that he actually left his region to kick the Egypt region Gods ass.

[Xombie]

Excellent question.

I've heard that the monotheistic religions developed from polytheistic religions and there are clues to that in a few places in the Bible.

But if you think about it, Polytheistic religions developed from monotheistic religions colliding. For instance one tribe worships Hera monotheistically and one tribe worships Zeus monotheistically. Thetwo tribes unite and then suddenly Hera marries Zeus and later they have babies as the tribe joins with other tribes. There is even some backtracking to make some of the incoming gods fathers and grandfathers of Zeus.

In another example you have the Jewish monotheistic god becoming the sort of polytheistic Trinity in Christianity.

And even the Jews and the Muslims allow for Angels and Demons and Satan, so these monotheistic religions have pantheons even if they are not pantheons of "Gods".


Well in the Old Testament they refer to angels banging mortal women (or something along that lines) though I don't remember anything about Demons. And I know the whole Satan/Hell thing is not a Jewish concept.

[MacQuarrie]

IIRC the story is based on an another story where the view of the times was that each god lived in their own region. The thing that was suppose to make the Jewish God such a badass was that he actually left his region to kick the Egypt region Gods ass.
Despite all the speculation that the books of Moses are actually based on earlier books, there's no manuscript evidence to support the idea.

But getting back to the point... When another "god" is mentioned in the OT, it's in lower-case and usually has quotes around it, the point being that these so-called gods are the invention of men and have no real power.

In the case of the 12 plagues of Egypt, each plague was a frontal assualt on a different egyptian deity, specifically to prove that they were powerless.

[MacQuarrie]

Well in the Old Testament they refer to angels banging mortal women (or something along that lines) though I don't remember anything about Demons. And I know the whole Satan/Hell thing is not a Jewish concept.
Genesis 6, the story of Moses, though debates rage to this day about what is meant by "the sons of God" and "the daughters of men." A common interpretation in Christian circles is that the "sons of God" are fallen angels, i.e. demons.

"Satan" and "gehenna" (literally the trash heap, commonly translated as hell) are, or rather were originally, jewish concepts, though the modern interpretation of these terms have been heavily influenced by Greek philosophy. Satan (the Accuser) is mentioned by name repeatedly in the Old Testament, particularly in Job. Modern judaism has taken these references as allegorical.

[Xombie]

Genesis 6, the story of Moses, though debates rage to this day about what is meant by "the sons of God" and "the daughters of men." A common interpretation in Christian circles is that the "sons of God" are fallen angels, i.e. demons.

"Satan" and "gehenna" (literally the trash heap, commonly translated as hell) are, or rather were originally, jewish concepts, though the modern interpretation of these terms have been heavily influenced by Greek philosophy. Satan (the Accuser) is mentioned by name repeatedly in the Old Testament, particularly in Job. Modern judaism has taken these references as allegorical.

IIRC Satan was not the lord of Hell and his position was completely different.

[Samurai]

Israel's Islamic neighbors are still spreading the stories of Blood Libel, but now with a modern twist... take a look at this clip of a show that aired on Iranian tv:

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/video/ZahraCompilation.wmv

They now claim that Jewish doctors are harvesting organs from Palestinian children... in the clip, a Jewish doctor cuts the eyes out of a Palestinian girl and implants them in a blind Jewish boy so that he can see. The doctor then brags that the organs of Arabs (and Christians) are like the "fruit of the trees", there to be plucked...

What can or should be done to combat such heinous stories?

[Typo Lad]

Ok, here's something I've been wanting to ask, what's the deal with those passages in the Torah that seem to imply that there is more than one god, just that yours is the best? (ie, the Pharaoh's god perforing "miracles" for him)

1) No such verse. The verse refers to Pharoh's Cort Magicians performing tricks. It's actually one of the few scnees I think is pulled off very well in "Prince of Egypt".

For the record, the Torah refers quite respectfully to the astrology and magic of the Egyptians. It's basically taught that the Egyptian Necromancers (best translation) did have some sort of hidden knowledge.

Heck one reason for why Pharoh ordered all the male babies killed is because his Astrologers saw a sign that a male baby would liberate the Jews.

As for references to other gods, nope. There are verses that talk about other race's idols, but never as gods.

One note though: Each nation did have an angel "assigned" to it. When G-d decided to act againast a nation, it was that angel's job to "gather" evidence or to enact the decree.

One example is where Yaakov (Jacob) wrestles with Esav's (Essau's) angel. G-d specifically sent that angel to try to bar Yaakov's way.

[Typo Lad]

Excellent question.

Eh, it's not bad.

It's easlily answered though, if you have a really good translation/commentary like this one (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0899060145/qid=1116506929/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/102-2963199-2843359?v=glance&s=books&n=507846). Although at the rate these questions are coming, I'm going to have to keep a copy at work so I can cite chapter and verse.

I've heard that the monotheistic religions developed from polytheistic religions and there are clues to that in a few places in the Bible.

While I have heard archeological evidence of this in some areas (i.e. Ancient Egypt), I have yet to hear any clues found in the actual Torah. Care to elaborate.

Again, I'm not talking about examples from outside the Text (Hi Paul!). You cite the actual Bible. Where?

The only thing I can think of is the story of Abraham growing up in his father's house... but I can't even be certain that that's in the text or that it's a Medrash

I really have to keep a Chumash at work...

And even the Jews and the Muslims allow for Angels and Demons and Satan, so these monotheistic religions have pantheons even if they are not pantheons of "Gods".

No, not really.

Angels, according to traditional Jewish thought, aren't dead people with halos or mystic creatures with agendas. They are, for all extent and purposes, automatons. An angel (or Malach) is G-d's will made manifest. An angel can do one function and one function only (which they are named for). Case in point, the Three Angels who visit Avraham. Raphael heals him, and the name means "G-d's healing". I was always taught that there isn't an actual angel named Raphael, but that when G-d creates an angel to heal someone, then it is called Raphael - in other words, they're just tools for set jobs. No free-will, no nothing.

Think of angels as the fingers on the hand of G-d.

(One interesting note: Mallachim means both angels AND messenger, the mundane sort. THe English translation to "angel" is to make life easier on you gentiles).

As for Satan, Satan doesn't exist.

Every person is born with a Yetzer Harah, an evil inclination (To those with Freudian backgrounds, think an Id). When we reach adulthood (12/13), we are granted a Yetzer Tov (Postive Inclination - think Ego). It's up to our reasoning/free will to decide which to follow (think Superego... or did I inverse ego/superego again?). We are, in that line of thinking, our own devils.

Now, as for Job (Or Yoav), I never studied it. It's considered VERY difficult and I don't see myself on that level. Maybe with a REALLY good Rebbe. Anyway, from my limitted understanding, the basic arguements I have heard are:

1) G-d created a specific angel or angels, refered to as HaSatan, to test Yoav.
2) It's an alagory, similar to a Midevil Miracle Show..

I should get Rubin to post on this...

[Typo Lad]

What's wrong with that?

It's a tad imperialistic.

Granted, I'll disagree on the best pov, but *shrug* Don't really expect a deity to say "Those guys are better, follow me anyway!"

I once heard a great, brilliant Drasha (think Sermon) wherin someone interpereted a line from ...I believe Jerimiah, about idols as "empty Cistern that cannot hold water". The speaker said that it wan't just the fact that the Jew's had left G-d that was causing the Prophet to rage, but that they didn't leave to pursue "social Justice" or because G-d wasn't "moral" or "right" enough for them - they left because they wanted to be like everyone else.

Always liked that one.

Hopefully that was not offensive to Morts... it is NOT meant to
be.

I've yet to be truely offended in this thread, that I can recall.

[Typo Lad]

IIRC the story is based on an another story where the view of the times was that each god lived in their own region. The thing that was suppose to make the Jewish God such a badass was that he actually left his region to kick the Egypt region Gods ass.

Again, the "gods" cited are the angels representing different nations (as in Jacob's dream).

Also, what's interesting is that according to what I was taught, that's EXACTLY how the Amalekites took the story. When eveyr other nation nearby was like "Woa let's stay out of the Jews way for a bit, their deity is all deadly," The Amalekites ran out and said "Hey, so what if he beat those silly Egyptians? Our god is tougher! Let's get them while their god is tired from fighting!"

We showed them...

[Typo Lad]

Well in the Old Testament they refer to angels banging mortal women (or something along that lines)

I hear this again and again and again and I can never find anyone who can cite me a source.

The closest I've ever heard is a line in Noah about beings 'falling to Earth" and then saying that those were angels and the giants mentione dlater were the progeny of angels and mortal women.

Which used to trouble me, as angels don't have free will, so if they're slipping it to a mortal chick, then G-d wants them to.

I did finally find a good reading on that, but it is at home.

though I don't remember anything about Demons.

The only demons we have are the ones we carry with us.

And I know the whole Satan/Hell thing is not a Jewish concept.

Please see about 400 or so posts back. While Satan is not a Jewish concept, there IS a "Hell" of sorts.

From JewishFAQ:

The place of spiritual reward for the righteous is often referred to in Hebrew as Gan Eden (GAHN ehy-DEHN) (the Garden of Eden). This is not the same place where Adam and Eve were; it is a place of spiritual perfection. Specific descriptions of it vary widely from one source to another. One source says that the peace that one feels when one experiences Shabbat properly is merely one-sixtieth of the pleasure of the afterlife. Other sources compare the bliss of the afterlife to the joy of sex or the warmth of a sunny day. Ultimately, though, the living can no more understand the nature of this place than the blind can understand color.

Only the very righteous go directly to Gan Eden. The average person descends to a place of punishment and/or purification, generally referred to as Gehinnom (guh-hee-NOHM) (in Yiddish, Gehenna), but sometimes as She'ol or by other names. According to one mystical view, every sin we commit creates an angel of destruction (a demon), and after we die we are punished by the very demons that we created. Some views see Gehinnom as one of severe punishment, a bit like the Christian Hell of fire and brimstone. Other sources merely see it as a time when we can see the actions of our lives objectively, see the harm that we have done and the opportunities we missed, and experience remorse for our actions. The period of time in Gehinnom does not exceed 12 months, and then ascends to take his place on Olam Ha-Ba.

Only the utterly wicked do not ascend at the end of this period; their souls are punished for the entire 12 months. Sources differ on what happens at the end of those 12 months: some say that the wicked soul is utterly destroyed and ceases to exist while others say that the soul continues to exist in a state of consciousness of remorse.

This 12-month limit is repeated in many places in the Talmud, and it is connected to the mourning cycles and the recitation of Kaddish. See Life, Death and Mourning.

There's a school of thought, which I was raised in, that you have to be good enough to even get into Gohenim! Ohterwise, your soul goes back for another try on Earth.

Think of this world as a pre-wash treatment, Hell as the actually washing/drying process, and then heaven as...hmm. Now my alagory falls apart.

[Typo Lad]

Despite all the speculation that the books of Moses are actually based on earlier books, there's no manuscript evidence to support the idea.

Even the flood story existing elsewhere in older cultures can be refuted as saying that they heard it and tacked it on.

But getting back to the point... When another "god" is mentioned in the OT, it's in lower-case and usually has quotes around it, the point being that these so-called gods are the invention of men and have no real power.

Yup.

In the case of the 12 plagues of Egypt, each plague was a frontal assualt on a different egyptian deity, specifically to prove that they were powerless.

12?

Um... 10.

Blood, Frogs, Lice, Wild Animals, Pestilence of Livestock, Boils, Hail, Locust, Darkness and Plague of the Firstborn. That's 10. From where do you get 12?

I like the teaching that the plagues were designed specifically to attack first the gods of Egypt, then the economy of Egypt, then the property, then life itself. It was basically building in severity.

[Typo Lad]

Speaking of Moshiach, found a good bit on JewFAQ

The term "moshiach" literally means "the anointed one," and refers to the ancient practice of anointing kings with oil when they took the throne. The moshiach is the one who will be anointed as king in the End of Days

The word "moshiach" does not mean "savior." The notion of an innocent, divine or semi-divine being who will sacrifice himself to save us from the consequences of our own sins is a purely Christian concept that has no basis in Jewish thought. Unfortunately, this Christian concept has become so deeply ingrained in the English word "messiah" that this English word can no longer be used to refer to the Jewish concept. The word "moshiach" will be used throughout this page.

[Typo Lad]

Genesis 6, the story of Moses, though debates rage to this day about what is meant by "the sons of God" and "the daughters of men." A common interpretation in Christian circles is that the "sons of God" are fallen angels, i.e. demons.

And in Judiasm, since angels cannot, by their nature fall, that does not wash.

Can some kind soul PLEASE cite me a verse here?

"Satan" and "gehenna" (literally the trash heap, commonly translated as hell) are, or rather were originally, jewish concepts, though the modern interpretation of these terms have been heavily influenced by Greek philosophy.

More like have been completely basterdised by. See my above post on the actual nature of Hell.

Satan (the Accuser) is mentioned by name repeatedly in the Old Testament, particularly in Job. Modern judaism has taken these references as allegorical.

Mostly, yes. There is another school of thought that Israel has no angelic representative, but instead only has an "Accuser" who attempts to point out our flaws. As the name implys, The Satan doesn't tempt anyone - we can do that ourselves.

Think of G-d as this massive computer, and HaSatan as the subrotine that monitors the Jewish people for negative behavior.

[Typo Lad]

Israel's Islamic neighbors are still spreading the stories of Blood Libel, but now with a modern twist...

Oh JOY.

take a look at this clip of a show that aired on Iranian tv:

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/video/ZahraCompilation.wmv

I'm sorry, but I could not watch that entire thing. Vile.

Is this part of the series about The Chronicles of the Elders of Zion, or soemthing else entirely?

What can or should be done to combat such heinous stories?

We should invade them... oh wait no...

Seriously though, what should be done? What do you think should be done? It should be spoken out against publically by people that know better, and treated as the fiction it is by them.

Also, more attention needs to be given to projects like this, (http://www.sesameworkshop.org/international/ps/eng/home.php) designed to show that Israelis and Palestinians can live and work together. it is the children, on both sides, who must be shown that peace is possible. I fear the adults are too far gone.

Also, please keep in mind, Samurai, for every 2 Iranians who believe this, there are a dozen Arabic Israeli soldiers, all fervent believers in Islam, who fight and die in the forces of the Israeli Army. My father, in his professional capacity, has met with actual members of the PLO who, suprisingly enough, were engaging individuals who had no desire to see anyone dead, but wanted a peaceful resolution. We were once walking around the walls of the Old City and when admiring the grapes in front of a house, invited in by the Arabic owner, who was a very good person.

What am I going for here...?

I have personally known many devout Muslims who did not wish any harm to the United States, Israel, or the Jewish people. I am not even counting those Muslims I have met in the US, as one can say that they have assimilated.

I think it's a bit... dishonest that Israel gets called The Jewish State when there are so many Christian and Muslim citicens who work and fight for the welfare of the state every day. I also think it's a bit... well, racist to assume that any Muslim seeing that show is going to fall for that sack of crap.

It's like saying that watching the X-Files will make me think the goverment is out to get me. Sure, some people may be wired to be that gullible, but most people are NOT.

[Rallura]

Dear Jewish Typo Person,

Are we having a CBRNY on June 5th or not?

[Typo Lad]

Dear Jewish Typo Person,

Are we having a CBRNY on June 5th or not?

Um... I think so.

Ask the other Nyers.

[Nate C.]

Morts,

Sorry to be so cryptic about the Holocaust Survivors and then not answer. I met a man in his seventies in line at Wal-Mart about 6 months ago. Pudgy, curmeodegeny, (I should really learn how to spell that word if I'm gonna keep using it) cigar in mouth. I saw a green series of numbers on his left arm? Maybe right. I asked him if that was what I thought it was and he affirmed. I shook his hand and told him I wanted him to know that I would never forget.

This may strike you as odd, being from NY, (where I assume there are lots of these guys you have met) but I was honored. He's the first Holocaust Survivor I've ever met. I went home and wrote about him in my journal, so I have his name. Heck, I even called my dad just to talk about it. I felt like I was touching history. We all know WWII vets, but this was the first HS for me. You could tell he was proud of his ordeal, (living is a great victory) and that he appreciated the notice. He went out of his way to ask me the question I asked you. How many alive in the state of Mississippi? He told me one. Himself.

I thought you might like to know.

And that the Gentiles are taking care of him, down here.

[Typo Lad]

That's a cool story.

I don't know how right he is about being the only one though....

[MacQuarrie]

IIRC Satan was not the lord of Hell and his position was completely different.
Satan is not lord of hell in Christian theology either, only in pseudo-christian mythology and folk tales.

[MacQuarrie]

Even the flood story existing elsewhere in older cultures can be refuted as saying that they heard it and tacked it on.



Yup.



12?

Um... 10.

Blood, Frogs, Lice, Wild Animals, Pestilence of Livestock, Boils, Hail, Locust, Darkness and Plague of the Firstborn. That's 10. From where do you get 12?

I like the teaching that the plagues were designed specifically to attack first the gods of Egypt, then the economy of Egypt, then the property, then life itself. It was basically building in severity.
I get it from senility. So many other things in God's plans revolve around 12 (12 tribes, etc), that I just slipped a gear.

[Nate C.]

That's a cool story.

I don't know how right he is about being the only one though....

Evidently there's data on this sort of thing, and he had looked into it. That's what he told me, anyway. He made a point of telling me that he was the only one.

(I'm not arguing with you, just saying that it was true for him)

[Typo Lad]

I get it from senility. So many other things in God's plans revolve around 12 (12 tribes, etc), that I just slipped a gear.

Other than the tribes, there's actually not a lot of 12s.

What's interesting is the multitudes of 7s and 8's 7 is the number of nature, and 8 the number of "plus" nature.

Even the 40 days, which would be 5x8.

Although on explination I heard was that 40 days and 40 nights meant something else, but I forget it...

[Michael P]

It's like saying that watching the X-Files will make me think the goverment is out to get me.Well, it convinced me that the government was out to get David Duchovny.

[Typo Lad]

Well, it convinced me that the government was out to get David Duchovny.

I still love that song...

[Super Hero Guy]

So, do you take the creation story 100% literaly (do you believe God created the world in seven days?)

[fly on the wall]

Comic heroes are mostly invented by Jews. Why does the Jewish mind most easily imagine themselves as having incredible powers? Could it be over-compensation for some short-comings you-know-where?

[Sandy Hausler]

Do you know that this thread is coming up on its first anniversary? Any plans for a party? (Kosher, of course!<g>)

Sandy Hausler

[Paul McEnery]

Oh JOY.



I'm sorry, but I could not watch that entire thing. Vile.

Is this part of the series about The Chronicles of the Elders of Zion, or soemthing else entirely?



We should invade them... oh wait no...

Seriously though, what should be done? What do you think should be done? It should be spoken out against publically by people that know better, and treated as the fiction it is by them.

Also, more attention needs to be given to projects like this, (http://www.sesameworkshop.org/international/ps/eng/home.php) designed to show that Israelis and Palestinians can live and work together. it is the children, on both sides, who must be shown that peace is possible. I fear the adults are too far gone.

Also, please keep in mind, Samurai, for every 2 Iranians who believe this, there are a dozen Arabic Israeli soldiers, all fervent believers in Islam, who fight and die in the forces of the Israeli Army. My father, in his professional capacity, has met with actual members of the PLO who, suprisingly enough, were engaging individuals who had no desire to see anyone dead, but wanted a peaceful resolution. We were once walking around the walls of the Old City and when admiring the grapes in front of a house, invited in by the Arabic owner, who was a very good person.

What am I going for here...?

I have personally known many devout Muslims who did not wish any harm to the United States, Israel, or the Jewish people. I am not even counting those Muslims I have met in the US, as one can say that they have assimilated.

I think it's a bit... dishonest that Israel gets called The Jewish State when there are so many Christian and Muslim citicens who work and fight for the welfare of the state every day. I also think it's a bit... well, racist to assume that any Muslim seeing that show is going to fall for that sack of crap.

It's like saying that watching the X-Files will make me think the goverment is out to get me. Sure, some people may be wired to be that gullible, but most people are NOT.
Morts --

Don't get too wound up by the Samurai post. I mean, sure, it's for real and all, but still...

The source is MEMRI, a Mossad spinoff whose sole purpose is to dig up Islamic nutballs to stir crap between Muslims and Jews. Why they think it's such a good idea, I don't know. And why other people decide to pay attention to them, well, I don't know that, either.

[Paul McEnery]

1) G-d created a specific angel or angels, refered to as HaSatan, to test Yoav.
2) It's an alagory, similar to a Midevil Miracle Show..


Well it's not much of a mystery when they give away whodunnit in the very first chapter, is it? :D

[MacQuarrie]

So, do you take the creation story 100% literaly (do you believe God created the world in seven days?)
Of course he doesn't.

It was six days, and on the seventh He rested.

Meanwhile....

Define "days."

Do you mean six consecutive 24-hour days, i.e. a span of 144 hours? The original hebrew text doesn't demand that. The word "yom" can mean day, period, era, step.... In Psalms, the "yom" of the Lord is described as a thousand years. In other places, "yom" is used to describe the whole of human history.

The literal interpretation of the six days is primarily a Christian one, usually expressed by people who think the Bible was originally written in King James english, and frequently by people who haven't much bothered to actually read it in any case.

The text of Genesis is vague enough to mean 6 phases, 6 24-hour days millions of years apart, or any other configuration anyone cares to think up. Aside from which God lives in eternity where everything is now. There's no linear time when you step outside the time-space continuum, so those six days can be as long as necessary and can be taken as far apart and in whatever order is necessary.

[Typo Lad]

So, do you take the creation story 100% literaly (do you believe God created the world in seven days?)

Jim squared this pretty well, with the fact that "yom" does not literally mean "day". Almost no scholars take this to mean a 24 hour day. After all, how can you HAVE days before the sun and moon exist (remember, light and dark came before the solar/lunar bodies in our solar system).

Alternativly, if it DOES mean a literal "day" then hey... it's G-d. I can buy that.

[Typo Lad]

Comic heroes are mostly invented by Jews. Why does the Jewish mind most easily imagine themselves as having incredible powers? Could it be over-compensation for some short-comings you-know-where?

Having no such shortcomings myself, I doubt it.

What I do think is that Jewish kids at the time tended to be more insular and bookish (cultural thing). Ergo, they read a lot of pulps and the like, those making them more scucceptible to such ideals. Pluds, the entire "secret identity" concept is a very Jewish concept. It's the dream of the Asmilated Jew - to be accepted by the rest of thw world, but still be able to be his old self.

[Typo Lad]

Do you know that this thread is coming up on its first anniversary? Any plans for a party? (Kosher, of course!<g>)

You just want to be invited!

You gonna come to the next CBRNY? We can do Dougies...

[Typo Lad]

Don't get too wound up by the Samurai post. I mean, sure, it's for real and all, but still...

I wasn't that wound up. Like I said, most members of the Muslim faith actually aren't like this.

I never fear people. I fear goverments.

The source is MEMRI, a Mossad spinoff whose sole purpose is to dig up Islamic nutballs to stir crap between Muslims and Jews.

Wait, you mean they pay for shows like this, or they tell people about them?

Also, don't talk about the Mossad! Just... don't.

Why they think it's such a good idea, I don't know.

Well, if they did spin off from them-who-should-not-be-named, then most likely? To keep their parent's in business.

And why other people decide to pay attention to them, well, I don't know that, either.

Oh, I know that too! Because people like to point and go "Hey, look how evil THIS is. I feel so much better about myself now..."

Well it's not much of a mystery when they give away whodunnit in the very first chapter, is it? :D

Was that an official "Ask the Jew" question, or just snark? It's hard to tell with you.

[Sandy Hausler]

You just want to be invited!

You gonna come to the next CBRNY? We can do Dougies...

What is CBRNY? And when is it?

Sandy Hausler

[Typo Lad]

What is CBRNY?

When the NY areas CBRers get together, hang out, and mock those who aren't there.

You're still in Brooklyn, right?

And when is it?

We're trying to see who's up for June 5th.

[fly on the wall]

Having no such shortcomings myself, I doubt it.

What I do think is that Jewish kids at the time tended to be more insular and bookish (cultural thing). Ergo, they read a lot of pulps and the like, those making them more scucceptible to such ideals. Pluds, the entire "secret identity" concept is a very Jewish concept. It's the dream of the Asmilated Jew - to be accepted by the rest of thw world, but still be able to be his old self.


Oh prove it, Mr. Shortstack! The secret identity concept was already established in escapist literature by the Scarlet Pimpernel and Zorro, who came before Supes. So your theory about assimilation being the origin of secret identities lies tattered in the dustbin of histoire.

[Typo Lad]

Oh prove it, Mr. Shortstack! The secret identity concept was already established in escapist literature by the Scarlet Pimpernel and Zorro, who came before Supes. So your theory about assimilation being the origin of secret identities lies tattered in the dustbin of histoire.

I ddidn't say we ORIGINATED it. I'm saying it was EMBRACED for those reasons.

[Xombie]

I hear this again and again and again and I can never find anyone who can cite me a source.

The closest I've ever heard is a line in Noah about beings 'falling to Earth" and then saying that those were angels and the giants mentione dlater were the progeny of angels and mortal women.

Which used to trouble me, as angels don't have free will, so if they're slipping it to a mortal chick, then G-d wants them to.

I did finally find a good reading on that, but it is at home.



I'll find it for you.

[Super Hero Guy]

Dear Jew,

How in the world did Noah single-handedly gather up two of every single species of animal in the world? ANd what happened to all the plants?

[Typo Lad]

How in the world did Noah single-handedly gather up two of every single species of animal in the world?

Actually, part of the miracle is that the animals came to him. Which is why so many secularists find it hard to swallow. That and the idea of the ark being big enough to fit all those animals, even if we say that they were all newborn.

ANd what happened to all the plants?

Good question. Dunno. I know he had plants aboard though.

[Paul McEnery]

Was that an official "Ask the Jew" question, or just snark? It's hard to tell with you.
Hah! I misread your original post, so that it read like what it should have read:
"Medieval Mystery Play".

In which case, the funny that I made would have actually made sense.

Otherwise, in re: Job, you are completely correct. Job is obviously a stand in for the entire Jewish people's tribulations, and a promise that it will all turn out well in the end.

[Karl J. Barnes]

Actually, part of the miracle is that the animals came to him. Which is why so many secularists find it hard to swallow. That and the idea of the ark being big enough to fit all those animals, even if we say that they were all newborn.



Good question. Dunno. I know he had plants aboard though.

He'd have to, to feed some of the animals, you think.

[Super Hero Guy]

Yeah, you know I never thought about it, but what the hell WERE they eating for those forty days in there?

[Typo Lad]

Yeah, you know I never thought about it, but what the hell WERE they eating for those forty days in there?

The passages that describe the construction of the ark specify that an entire deck was for the storage of food.

[Super Hero Guy]

Ahh, yes, sorry.

[MacQuarrie]

Yeah, you know I never thought about it, but what the hell WERE they eating for those forty days in there?
Please read Genesis 6. It wasn't 40 days.

It rained for 40 days. The ark floated for a good deal longer than that before coming to rest in the mountains of Ararat (not ON Mt. Ararat), most likely in the foothills above Ninevah.

My ragged memory is telling me it was 150 days, but it might have been longer.

Anyway, if the flood was "global" in the sense that it wiped out humanity rather than that it covered the entire earth, then Noah didn't have to take every kind of animal on Earth, only the ones that lived within several hundred miles of Mesopotamia, and then only the ones that can't survive in water. Most likely small rodents and reptiles would not have been taken, as they would quickly replenish themselves from the surrounding area once the waters receded.

Also note that Noah brought seven of some animals, such as cattle and some birds.

[Super Hero Guy]

Dear Jew,

what's the deal with the fact that most of the main guys from your scriptures did so many sinful things?

[Typo Lad]

what's the deal with the fact that most of the main guys from your scriptures did so many sinful things?

Can you please re-word your question so that it is more specific and maybe less offensive?

Also, please keep in mind that until the giving of the Torah as Sinai, the only thing you could sin against were the Seven Noahide Laws. Everything else wasn't in effect yet.

[MacQuarrie]

I think the answer is "that's kinda the point." As David wrote, "If you , O Lord, kept a record of wrongs, who could stand before you? But there is forgiveness with you." (A rough paraphrase from memory. It's in Psalms. Look it up.)

God specifically chose sinful and flawed people to carry out his purposes so that nobody could ever say, "yeah, well, I could never be like Noah/Abraham/Jacob/Joseph/Moses/David/Joshua/insert-your-favorite-prophet."

In effect, God is saying "Yes you can. They were ordinary people just like you, except they were willing to come when called and do as they were told. Are you?"

[Super Hero Guy]

Dear Morts,

have you ever heard of the "scientific" explation of the ten plagues, and if so, what do you think of it?

[Typo Lad]

I love the concept that G-d can't work through nature. Really, I do.

[LtMarvel]

The News of the Wierd listed two items now on the Kosher list: Viagra and a certain brand of cat food and dog food.

News to me that medicine and pet foods can be Kosher!

[Sanagi]

The News of the Wierd listed two items now on the Kosher list: Viagra and a certain brand of cat food and dog food.

News to me that medicine and pet foods can be Kosher!
I heard about Viagra, but pet food? Do Jewish dogs have a Bark Mitzvah?

[Mike Smash!]

Why did dog food make the list? I really hope this doesn't mean people are eating pet food...

[Typo Lad]

Sorry guys, I have to sleep sometime, you know.

Okay, questions about the Kashrut of pet food and medicine...

Most people hold that medicine does NOT need to be kosher. However, one opinion is that this only applies to medicine that's keeping you alive, and other medicines should be kosher and only contain kosher ingredients. The only real "non-kosher" ingredients I know of in phamacuticals is gelatin - but then I'm not a doctor. There is a small market for "kosher" asprin, etc.

Viagra, since it's not something that you'd die without, would need to be Kosher for those people who subscribe to the above philosophy.

As for dog food...

Now, my grandfather raised dogs, and if you tried to tell him that he had to feed his dogs Kosher dog food he'd laugh in your face. Dogs don't need to keep Kosher. HOWEVER, there are some people who like to only feed their pets kosher food, simply because they don't want non-Kosher food of any kind in their house, or to accidently come into contact with their dishes.

[Nate C.]

Come on Morts, you can do better than that. You never picked up any politics from dear old dad or the men at the synagogue? Just give me a glimpse into your political world. And you know how the tems are generally defined- let's start there.

Once more, with feeling,

Are most Jews politically "liberal" and if so, why? Democrats, and if so, why?

More importantly, are you? And why?

It seems to me that for moral reasons and for the National interests of Israel, that the GOP is more in line with Jewish values than the Democratic Party. Yet, My assumption is that most Jews are Democrats.

Nate.

[Tages]

Morts,

Are most Jews politically "liberal" and if so, why? Democrats, and if so, why?

More importantly, are you? And why?

I don't want to debate you politically, just understand. It seems to me that for moral reasons and for the National interests of Israel, that the GOP is more in line with Jewish values than the Democratic Party. Yet, My assumption is that most Jews are Democrats.

Nate.
I know I'm not Morts, but the last statistics I saw said that Jewish Americans skew Democrat ~80%. The Republican president to get the largest Jewish vote was Reagan in '84, at ~25%. The lowest was Barry Goldwater in '64, at ~5%.

[Typo Lad]

Morts

AGHHH!

Man, just when you thought it was safe...

Are most Jews politically "liberal"

Are you asking me to speak for "most" Jews? Because that's dangerous.

And define "liberal". My dad's worked for Democrats his whole life, but was a Democrat for Nixon and also refused to vote for Clinton. Yet he's still generally considered a liberal.

and if so, why?

Can't give why's for anyone but myself in this area.

Democrats..?

Statistical studies on the net will be more helpful than I. I do know several Republican Jews.

More importantly, are you? And why?

Liberal? Define Liberal. I suppose it depends on the issue.

A Democrat? Currently a registered Independant, actually. I do have a tendancy to vote Democratic (with the exception of Senior Clinton).

I don't want to debate you politically,

Good, cause that's my dad's job.

just understand. It seems to me that for moral reasons and for the National interests of Israel, that the GOP is more in line with Jewish values than the Democratic Party. Yet, My assumption is that most Jews are Democrats.


A story is told that a group of students went up to their Rebbe.

“Rebbe,” they asked “Which of the people running for mayor are better for the Jews of the village?”

“Let me tell you a story,” responded the Rebbe “You are on a small rowboat, sitting across from another man. Suddenly, the boat springs a leak under his seat. Do you sit and laugh because he’s going to get wet?”

“Rebbe! Of course not! If he drowns, we drown too.”

“Exactly. Now ask me who’s better for the village, not just the Jews.”

I vote for the best man (or woman, as the case may be) for the job, overall. After all, we’re all in the same boat.

[Typo Lad]

I know I'm not Morts, but the last statistics I saw said that Jewish Americans skew Democrat ~80%. The Republican president to get the largest Jewish vote was Reagan in '84, at ~25%. The lowest was Barry Goldwater in '64, at ~5%.

Source please?

[Tages]

Source please?
I'm just recalling those from memory. I cannot seem to find my original source, but this (http://www.pluralism.org/news/index.php?xref=The+Jewish+Vote) page lists several articles with the basic theme that American Jews vote mostly Democratic, except for Orthodox and Haredi Jews, who are overwhelmingly Republican.


Note: I cannot vouch for pluralism.org, I found it via Google and am unfamiliar with it. However, it does link to plenty of outside sources.

[Nate C.]

Come on Morts, you can do better than that. You never picked up any politics from dear old dad or the men at the synagogue? Just give me a glimpse into your political world. And you know how the tems are generally defined- let's start there.

Once more, with feeling,

Are most Jews politically "liberal" and if so, why? Democrats, and if so, why?

More importantly, are you? And why?

It seems to me that for moral reasons and for the National interests of Israel, that the GOP is more in line with Jewish values than the Democratic Party. Yet, My assumption is that most Jews are Democrats.

Nate.

crap. i edited post 248 instead of quoting it. at least it is preserved in your quote which is sure to confuse.

anyway, give, Jewda.

[Super Hero Guy]

Dear Morts,

I punched a guy the other day when he was making anti-semetic remarks. What do you think about that?

[Fabian]

Dear Morts,

What's up with the Jewish accent? And are Klondike bars Kosher?

Jew Love,
Fabe-o

[Typo Lad]

I punched a guy the other day when he was making anti-semetic remarks. What do you think about that?

I think violence is never the answer.

[Typo Lad]

What's up with the Jewish accent?

There's no such animal.

And are Klondike bars Kosher?

Thank the good L-rd YES!

Jew Love,
Fabe-o

Hey, jew doesn't?

[Dom]

Dear Jew,

How long will this thread get? Will it eventually have to be circumcised for you to continue to post in it?

[Typo Lad]

Come on Morts, you can do better than that.

Don't be condescending, kay?

You never picked up any politics from dear old dad

I picked up insights into it.

You know, what they say is true - politics is like sausages. If you want to enjoy the end result, don't watch it being made.

or the men at the synagogue?

Oh G-d no!

Just give me a glimpse into your political world.

I've done so many times.

And you know how the tems are generally defined- let's start there.

Nu-uh. That's my major beef. I refuse to discuss allegiance unless said terms are defined.

It seems to me that for moral reasons and for the National interests of Israel, that the GOP is more in line with Jewish values than the Democratic Party. Yet, My assumption is that most Jews are Democrats.


Well, Tages seems to have found a site that says most Orthodox or Chassidic Jews actually tend to vote republican, and those are the sects more in line with traditional thinking. Try that on for size.

[Typo Lad]

How long will this thread get?

I was wondering that myself!

Will it eventually have to be circumcised for you to continue to post in it?

I can see it now... ATJ gets so big that, like Rita's of old, it crashes the server. As a result, all the jews get banned.

[Dom]

I was wondering that myself!



I can see it now... ATJ gets so big that, like Rita's of old, it crashes the server. As a result, all the jews get banned.


Sounds like something facist Tom would do.

[StoneGold]

Come on Morts, you can do better than that. You never picked up any politics from dear old dad or the men at the synagogue? Just give me a glimpse into your political world. And you know how the tems are generally defined- let's start there.

Once more, with feeling,

Are most Jews politically "liberal" and if so, why? Democrats, and if so, why?

More importantly, are you? And why?

It seems to me that for moral reasons and for the National interests of Israel, that the GOP is more in line with Jewish values than the Democratic Party. Yet, My assumption is that most Jews are Democrats.

Nate.
If there is a perception of that, a lot of it is probably due to a strong history of social liberalism in the Jewish community. With the influx of Russian Jews in America in the early 20th century, a lot of the reason they were able to thrive as a minority group was through the creation of strong social organizations. There has also been strong involvement of Jews in various socially liberal causes. Like the two white men lynched in the Misssippi Burning case were Jewish.

[Typo Lad]

Like the two white men lynched in the Misssippi Burning case were Jewish.

Jews aren't "White".

Sorry, pet peeve.

[Typo Lad]

Sounds like something facist Tom would do.

Fascist is almost as bad as calling someone Nazi.

These words mean things. To use them in jest takes away from the horrors of those who really held those titles.

[Fabian]

Does Bizarro Morts (the one who debuted at CBRNY) believe in Jesus?

[StoneGold]

Jews aren't "White".

Sorry, pet peeve.
Racially, they were. Ethnically, no, they were Jewish. But it's a pet peeve of mine for Jews to be considered a race. And since the black guy who was also lynched could have in theory been Jewish, I felt the need to specify.

[Trystenn]

Racially, they were. Ethnically, no, they were Jewish. But it's a pet peeve of mine for Jews to be considered a race. And since the black guy who was also lynched could have in theory been Jewish, I felt the need to specify.
A Black Jew? Was he Gay and in an interracial relationship with a white Satanist?

Cuz damn thats rough, as long as we are talking about ya know, lynching.

[Typo Lad]

Does Bizarro Morts (the one who debuted at CBRNY) believe in Jesus?

Whatchu talkin about, Fabus?

[Patient Boy]

A Black Jew?

Just like Yaphet Kotto!

...

Actually, I just like saying the guy's name.

[Typo Lad]

Racially, they were. Ethnically, no, they were Jewish. But it's a pet peeve of mine for Jews to be considered a race. And since the black guy who was also lynched could have in theory been Jewish, I felt the need to specify.

I see your point.

Jews *are* also a race though. Racial Jews are rare, but they exist.

My evidence? The "lip test" that can trace people back to Aaron.

[Typo Lad]

Just like Yaphet Kotto!

...

Actually, I just like saying the guy's name.

Who?

Rod Carew's Jewish....

[Motormouse]

Who?

Rod Carew's Jewish....


yaphet kotto is the black guy in Alien. Parker i think his character name is :eek:

[Bouncing Boy]

Whatchu talkin about, Fabus?

I believe he means this

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/lena212/batcostume.jpg

See, the 'S' is backwards, so it's Bizarro Morts!

[Typo Lad]

I believe he means this

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/lena212/batcostume.jpg

See, the 'S' is backwards, so it's Bizarro Morts!


Groan.

When did she post these pics? I missed this!

[Bouncing Boy]

Groan.

When did she post these pics? I missed this!

It's only about three posts down from this one...here, I'll make it easy for you RIGHT HERE (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=62464)

[LtMarvel]

Who?

Rod Carew's Jewish....
He was the big man on Homicide: Life on the Streets (the best cop show ever!). My mom complained that she couldn't understand him (which, I admit, was tough in the early episodes).

[jessecuster]

Hey Morts how about an opinion on Matisyahu, Lubavitsch reggae star. Here (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050527/ENTERTAINMENT04/505270307/1081) is an article about him, here (http://www.hasidicreggae.com/) is his web page. He does have the #2 best selling reggae album in the US, which I think is really cool.

[Michael P]

Is it right to buy a Chrysler?

[Typo Lad]

Hey Morts how about an opinion on Matisyahu, Lubavitsch reggae star. Here (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050527/ENTERTAINMENT04/505270307/1081) is an article about him, here (http://www.hasidicreggae.com/) is his web page. He does have the #2 best selling reggae album in the US, which I think is really cool.

Haven't heard his stuff yet, but I'm fascinated by the concept. Good for him.

[Typo Lad]

Is it right to buy a Chrysler?

You cna do what you want. Me? I won't buy from Chrysler, Volkswagon, or Mitsubishi.

Why Mitsubishi?

http://blue-impulse.hp.infoseek.co.jp/hama1980/0-1.jpg

+

http://images.encarta.msn.com/xrefmedia/sharemed/targets/images/pho/t014/T014271A.jpg

That's why.

[DarkBlade]

... I fear I must claim ignorance to that second picture. Is that Pearl Harbor? Did Mitsubishi build planes back then?

[Typo Lad]

... I fear I must claim ignorance to that second picture. Is that Pearl Harbor? Did Mitsubishi build planes back then?

Yup. The Mitsubishi Zero, plane of choice for Kamakazis.

[Bouncing Boy]

You cna do what you want. Me? I won't buy from Chrysler, Volkswagon, or Mitsubishi.



Okay, I understand Mitsubishi after the pictures. And I understand Volkswagon (since it was founded by Hitler), but why Chrysler?

[Typo Lad]

why Chrysler?

They built the freaking gas chambers.

[Bouncing Boy]

They built the freaking gas chambers.

WOAH! Didn't know that.

[StoneGold]

I see your point.

Jews *are* also a race though. Racial Jews are rare, but they exist.

My evidence? The "lip test" that can trace people back to Aaron.
That still doesn't define a race. Granted, that's because race is really a bullshit notion, defined more by what you identify with, and what other people identify you with, than anything else. But generally, there's more than a single genetic trait needed to define a race.


EDIT: Also, what about Ford, what with Hank and Adolph being bestest buddies?

[Super Hero Guy]

Dear Morts,

why are so many good car companies affiliated with evil dictorial regimes?

[Sanagi]

Dear Morts,

why are so many good car companies affiliated with evil dictorial regimes?
Dictatorial regimes have a way of getting people to do what they want them to do... That's what makes them dictatorial regimes.

Thank you, this has been another installment of Obvious Answer Theater.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

You cna do what you want. Me? I won't buy from Chrysler, Volkswagon, or Mitsubishi.

Why Mitsubishi?

http://blue-impulse.hp.infoseek.co.jp/hama1980/0-1.jpg

+

http://images.encarta.msn.com/xrefmedia/sharemed/targets/images/pho/t014/T014271A.jpg

That's why.

What about IBM?

They also had dealings.

And the Kennedy's.

[Trystenn]

Hey since this is "Ask a Jew" i would like to know....

What is the Zionist movement?

[Nitmo]

Dear Morty Jew Jewdi McFurry,

Is this (http://www.yarmulkebra.com/) blasphemy?

-Mr. Nit "Jackass" mo

[howyadoin]

They built the freaking gas chambers.An American company built gas chambers for the Nazis during WW2?

Or are you referring to Chrysler's merger with Mercedes?

[jeffb1982]

Chrystler owns mercedes?

[howyadoin]

Chrystler owns mercedes?No, they merged. The company is now called Daimler-Chrysler.

[J Dog]

Uh, how come you guys can't eat pork, not even with a fork?

Can't Touch This!

[Typo Lad]

What about IBM?

IBM gets a pass.

Why?

The sold parts to Germany, yes, but have given reparations. They also helped build the Enigma machine, which goes a long way towards getting me to forgive.

And the Kennedy's.

Hey, I never voted for a Kennedy!

[Typo Lad]

Hey since this is "Ask a Jew" i would like to know....

What is the Zionist movement?

Use google for that one. Just too "big" a question.
BIg question! (http://www.jewfaq.org/israel.htm#Zionism) Hope that answers it!

[Typo Lad]

An American company built gas chambers for the Nazis during WW2?

Or are you referring to Chrysler's merger with Mercedes?

The latter, my friend.

[Typo Lad]

Is this (http://www.yarmulkebra.com/) blasphemy?



I dunno about "blasphemy". In poor taste, yes. Kind of "hot", maybe. But blasphemy?

[Nitmo]

I dunno about "blasphemy". In poor taste, yes. Kind of "hot", maybe. But blasphemy?

and I was hoping you'd say something like "boobs are NEVER blasphemous"

[Typo Lad]

Uh, how come you guys can't eat pork, not even with a fork?


Because G-d said so.

Gone into in detail earlier in the thread.

[DarkSoldier]

Because G-d said so.

Gone into in detail earlier in the thread.
Poorly-cooked pork can also contain dangerous parasites; the same goes for shellfish and salmonella. Keeping kosher, like the Hindu sacred cow, was probably a practical thing that got turned into religious dogma somewhere along the line.

[Typo Lad]

Poorly-cooked pork can also contain dangerous parasites; the same goes for shellfish and salmonella. Keeping kosher, like the Hindu sacred cow, was probably a practical thing that got turned into religious dogma somewhere along the line.

You're entitled to feel that way.

[Sandy Hausler]

Poorly-cooked pork can also contain dangerous parasites; the same goes for shellfish and salmonella. Keeping kosher, like the Hindu sacred cow, was probably a practical thing that got turned into religious dogma somewhere along the line.

What about rabbit? What about camel? What about horse? They're all forbideen, but don't fit in your theory.

Sandy Hausler

[Typo Lad]

What about rabbit? What about camel? What about horse? They're all forbideen, but don't fit in your theory.

Thanks Sandy. I get tired of having this discussion, myself.

I mean, it's well and good to try to find "logical" reasons for why a religion says something, but doing it by halves is ungood.

[Sam]

At Mort's suggestion, I'm bringing over a question from the anti-gay camp thread.

How do Jews who believe in the necessity of obeying the commands in the Torah reconcile the commands to do things which are, by modern standards, morally repugnant? If somebody really wants me to I can go find one of those rabid atheist sites that list all the commands to do things like kill people for having the wrong religion, or stone people to death for talking out of line, and so forth, but I'm sure you've seen them all before.

The typical Christian answer seems to be, "Well, when Jesus came he got rid of all the rules we're not comfortable with today. (All the prohibitions against stuff we still dislike are still valid, of course.)" But Jews don't get the Get Out of the Law free card, so I'm curious as to whether it would still be considered right and proper for a Jew to, say, take a raiding party into Mexico and enslave a bunch of the natives.

And since the answer to that question is probably "No," howcome?

[Sam]

Hey, I never voted for a Kennedy!

How does the Jewish community feel about the fact that the Bush family purportedly made a hefty part of their fortune through Nazi collaboration?

[Typo Lad]

It's like this...

...certain Laws only apply in Israel, under the rule of a Jewish Monarchy descended from Judah.

Otherwise, while in exile the Law says one MUST obey the laws of the land.

If you want to go into specific examples, we can.

[Typo Lad]

How does the Jewish community feel about the fact that the Bush family purportedly made a hefty part of their fortune through Nazi collaboration?

I'd have to ask them.

Me?

I am far, far from being a Bush supporter. Watching the Democratic Party utterly botch the marketing of their candidate was like watching a train wreck - I just couldn't stop, much as I wanted to.

The simple fact is, regardless of the relative skills of the candidates in any arena, the Republicans ran a much, much better campaign.

As for Bush himself, he's done suprisingly well in terms of Israel. Better than Bill "Oops, in trying to be the next Carter I've escalated things to worse than they were when I started the proccess in my first term" Clinton.

[Sam]

It's like this...

...certain Laws only apply in Israel, under the rule of a Jewish Monarchy descended from Judah.

Otherwise, while in exile the Law says one MUST obey the laws of the land.

If you want to go into specific examples, we can.

No need to go into specific examples, I'm more interested in the overarcing ethical structure.

So the Laws in question don't apply anymore because the line of kings has been lost? This presents another question. I don't imagine you can speak for all jews or anything, but I'm curious as to your thoughts, Morts.

Suppose a monarchy descended from Judah was implemented in Isreal again. I realize the odds of that aren't exactly, y'know, favorable, but for the sake of argument, let's say it happened.

Would all those old Laws become required again? And would you consider them morally just? For that matter, what is your view on their justice at the time they were being followed the first time around?

Given the modern Jewish perspective on genocide, how do you approach things like Deuteronomy's divine commandments to wipe out entire peoples and take their land?

[Typo Lad]

No need to go into specific examples, I'm more interested in the overarcing ethical structure.

Uh-oh. Lots more room to put my foot in my mouth.

Would all those old Laws become required again?

It would only happen if in Tandem with the coming of tMoshiach. (http://www.jewfaq.org/moshiach.htm)

And would you consider them morally just?

There are countless raging debates between scholars about what will happen with the Law when Moshiach comes. For example, in the Talmud there are countless places where the Schools of Hillel and Shammi disagree. It is handed down that whoever we hold by now, we will hold by the opposite one when Moshiach comes.

As for would I consider them "just"... well, Just is up to G-d, really. Take a look at what happened when a few Amalekite animals and one woman were left alive: the king hid with the sheep, found a woman, and had a son and continued his dynasty.

For that matter, what is your view on their justice at the time they were being followed the first time around?

I'll ONLY discuss this case-by-case. Sorry.

In the case of the commandment to whipe out Amalek, it was a command in direct response to Amalek's unprovoked attacks on the Jewish people. Nowadays, as we don't have a clear tradition on what race Amalek was, it is said that we should take it as a commandment to:

1) Remember what Amalek did to us.
2) Stamp out that sort of behavior anywhere.

Given the modern Jewish perspective on genocide, how do you approach things like Deuteronomy's divine commandments to wipe out entire peoples and take their land?

Many commandments were for the then-takeover of Israel. Had I been alive and G-d commanded me to do so, yes, I would do so.

Sorry, but if I'm the child of the generation that walked through the Sea of Reeds, then experinaced countless miracles and had myself eaten the Mannah - yeah, gonna do what G-d tells me to.

[Sam]

There are countless raging debates between scholars about what will happen with the Law when Moshiach comes. For example, in the Talmud there are countless places where the Schools of Hillel and Shammi disagree. It is handed down that whoever we hold by now, we will hold by the opposite one when Moshiach comes.

As for would I consider them "just"... well, Just is up to G-d, really. Take a look at what happened when a few Amalekite animals and one woman were left alive: the king hid with the sheep, found a woman, and had a son and continued his dynasty.

And G-d considered it just that the entire people be wiped off the Earth, I take it?

I'll ONLY discuss this case-by-case. Sorry.

Well, since I've already dived headlong into the thorny stuff, why not see how deep I can dig? The one that always jumped out at me -- in fact, one of the major reasons I stopped being a Christian -- is the bit where the Chosen People are explicitly commanded to march into the Holy Land, slaughter every single man, woman, and child, and then enslave every neighboring tribe.

As a modern American who sees things like genocide as inherently and unalterably Evil, reading that bit nearly killed any faith I might have had in a deity issuing commands like that. It wasn't what killed my faith, but it certainly gave it a good kicking.

In the case of the commandment to whipe out Amalek, it was a command in direct response to Amalek's unprovoked attacks on the Jewish people.

And here's another specific example. Is genocide acceptable if the people you're wiping from the face of the Earth attacked you first? The Torah certainly seems to indicate as much, unless I'm deeply misunderstanding it. (Which is certainly possible.)

Many commandments were for the then-takeover of Israel. Had I been alive and G-d commanded me to do so, yes, I would do so.

Sorry, but if I'm the child of the generation that walked through the Sea of Reeds, then experinaced countless miracles and had myself eaten the Mannah - yeah, gonna do what G-d tells me to.

I think this is where I have my fundamental disconnect in trying to understand religious people. I just can't wrap my head around how something can be a hideous, abominable crime that beggars comprehension until the Man Upstairs commands it -- at which point it's A-ok.

I mean, stuff like the genocides in Deuteronomy are understandable in historical context, because that's what life was back then. You try to wipe out that tribe over there, they try to wipe you out, and whichever one of you wins is the one that gets to write the history scriptures.

EDIT -- Didn't finish my thought.

Anyway, it's understandable back then, because back then everybody tried to commit genocide on everyone else. But presumably, G-d's ethical nature is unchanging, right? So from a divine mandate standpoint, either genocide was unjust back then, or it's still just now, yes?

[Typo Lad]

Man, Sam don't make it easy...[

QUOTE=Sam]And G-d considered it just that the entire people be wiped off the Earth, I take it?[/quote]

I can't speak for G-d, just for me.

Well, since I've already dived headlong into the thorny stuff, why not see how deep I can dig? The one that always jumped out at me -- in fact, one of the major reasons I stopped being a Christian -- is the bit where the Chosen People are explicitly commanded to march into the Holy Land, slaughter every single man, woman, and child, and then enslave every neighboring tribe.

Chapter and verse?

Also, for the record slavery according to Biblical law was VERY different than how we percieve it. Even POW Slaves had to be freed at a certain point.

Not that, historically, my people didn't end up SUCKING at keeping these laws.

As a modern American who sees things like genocide as inherently and unalterably Evil, reading that bit nearly killed any faith I might have had in a deity issuing commands like that. It wasn't what killed my faith, but it certainly gave it a good kicking.

I can see that.

And here's another specific example. Is genocide acceptable if the people you're wiping from the face of the Earth attacked you first? The Torah certainly seems to indicate as much, unless I'm deeply misunderstanding it. (Which is certainly possible.)

As I understand it, and I'm no Rabbi let me remind you, the Amalekites didn't just "attack" the Jews - they made a concentrated effort to re-enslave them right after they'd escaped Egypt. They ambushed them.

In the cultural setting of "an eye for an eye" yes, I think it justified.

I think this is where I have my fundamental disconnect in trying to understand religious people. I just can't wrap my head around how something can be a hideous, abominable crime that beggars comprehension until the Man Upstairs commands it -- at which point it's A-ok.

See, I got past it with Issac.

Just because He commanded it doesn't mean He always wanted us to DO it.

I mean, stuff like the genocides in Deuteronomy are understandable in historical context, because that's what life was back then. You try to wipe out that tribe over there, they try to wipe you out, and whichever one of you wins is the one that gets to write the history scriptures.

EDIT -- Didn't finish my thought.

Anyway, it's understandable back then, because back then everybody tried to commit genocide on everyone else. But presumably, G-d's ethical nature is unchanging, right? So from a divine mandate standpoint, either genocide was unjust back then, or it's still just now, yes?

Nope.

The Torah isn't static. Even the most hard-core Chassidish Jew living in a basement in B'Nai Brak will tell you that.

As you noted, back then that was how thigns were done. Nowadays I highly doubt that such a commandment would happen. I don't KNOW that though, so I'm wary of saying it.

What I can say is I've heard fringe loonies say "when Moshiach comes the Nations of the World will be our Slaves!" and heard them utterly slammed by people with much more knowledge.

[Sam]

Man, Sam don't make it easy...

Heh.


I can't speak for G-d, just for me.

Ok. Do you think it was just for the Amalekites to be wiped off the face of the Earth?

Chapter and verse?

Deuteronomy 20:

---
10 When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it.

11 And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, [that] all the people [that is] found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee.

12 And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it:

13 And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:

14 But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, [even] all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.

15 Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities [which are] very far off from thee, which [are] not of the cities of these nations.
---

And as for the inhabitants of the Holy Land...

---
16 But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee [for] an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:

17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; [namely], the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee:

18 That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods; so should ye sin against the LORD your God.
---

Also, for the record slavery according to Biblical law was VERY different than how we percieve it. Even POW Slaves had to be freed at a certain point.

Not that, historically, my people didn't end up SUCKING at keeping these laws.

Still, to my weak-kneed modern sensibilities, something seems rather askew about showing up outside someone's city unprovoked and informing them that they have a choice between serving you, or being taken as slaves. Even if God commanded.

And, of course, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites didn't even get that option.

As I understand it, and I'm no Rabbi let me remind you, the Amalekites didn't just "attack" the Jews - they made a concentrated effort to re-enslave them right after they'd escaped Egypt. They ambushed them.

In the cultural setting of "an eye for an eye" yes, I think it justified.

Am I misunderstanding, or doesn't that sound an awful lot like *exactly the same thing* Deuteronomy describes the Chosen People doing to their own neighbors?

See, I got past it with Issac.

I didn't. If God Himself descended from Heaven in all his divine glory and majesty and told me to murder my son, I like to think I'd tell Him where to stick it.

(I say "I'd like to" because it's possible I'd wimp out due to sheer terror. But I think I'd be wrong to do so.)

Just because He commanded it doesn't mean He always wanted us to DO it.

Interesting approach to take. Maybe the "Go commit genocide" command was some sort of test, and they failed?

Nope.

The Torah isn't static. Even the most hard-core Chassidish Jew living in a basement in B'Nai Brak will tell you that.

The Torah may not be static, but is God? I know in the Christian conception, God does not change. If God said something was wrong 3,000 years ago, He still thinks so now. So in the Christian conception of God, all those Old Testament genocides would still be morally right in his eyes today.

Does the Jewish conception feature a God capable of change?

As you noted, back then that was how thigns were done. Nowadays I highly doubt that such a commandment would happen. I don't KNOW that though, so I'm wary of saying it.

What I can say is I've heard fringe loonies say "when Moshiach comes the Nations of the World will be our Slaves!" and heard them utterly slammed by people with much more knowledge.

I can certainly see where they get it from, though. The God of the Torah/Old Testament doesn't seem particularly concerned with what happens to all the non-Chosen people, so long as they get cleared out of the way.

(Which makes sense if you simply take this as the writings of a tribe at constant war with all the neighboring tribes. The problem comes in when people say, no, God wanted that to happen, and it says so right here, and we should apply this to modern life...)

[MacQuarrie]

I can certainly see where they get it from, though. The God of the Torah/Old Testament doesn't seem particularly concerned with what happens to all the non-Chosen people, so long as they get cleared out of the way.
Not so. God told Eve and later Abraham that "all people shall be blessed through you." He has always been concerned with all people.

When He speaks of "the Chosen People," He's not speaking of His favorites or anything like that. Chosen is more along the lines of "set apart" or even "drafted." They are "chosen" for a special purpose that is being revealed over time. Repeatedly throughout history, God has used the jewish people to reveal injustice, to fight against it, and to bring the gentiles to Himself.

The Amalekites and other tribes that God tells the Israelites to wipe out were almost all tribes that had once been part of God's people, but split off and turned away from Him, such as descendents of Esau, of Lot, etc. In turning away from God, they turned to practices we would find pretty horrible, such as child scrifice and mandatory ritual sex acts (sometimes including using children as temple prostitutes).

In the big picture though, wiping out these tribes was also necessary to ensure the survival of the Jewish people. It was a bloody and violent age of kill or be killed. We have to be careful not to project our modern standards onto ancient people so that we can fault them for not measuring up. While the Jews were killing the Amalekites in war, my ancestors were painting themselves blue and engaging in human sacrifice in worship to trees.

Aside from that, the notion of the God of the Torah as the Avenging and Destroying God of Judgment is really a biased and sloppy reading of the text. The Torah is really a narrative of God forgiving and reclaiming His people over and over again, as they repeatedly forget His blessings and turn away from Him. He is much more a God of Love in the Old Testament than He is in the New. If God in fact the angry and vengeful God that people make Him out to be, He would have wiped out His "Chosen People" on at least a dozen different occasions.

Read Hosea. It's a prophetic and allegorical description of God's relationship with man. Hosea has this wife that he adores beyond words. She'd rather work as a prostitute. She keeps leaving him and screwing up her life. He keeps loving her and rescuing her from one mess after another, and never stops loving her. (Hint: Hosea represents God; his wife represents us. Get it?)

[J Dog]

Can Jews play football?

[DarkBlade]

My ancestors were painting themselves blue and engaging in human sacrifice in worship to trees.

De Bello Gallia isn't really the best of references for that... it was essentially a bunch of propaganda sent back to Rome, prone to a lot of embellishment, and where helpful, falsification. Especially when losing.

[spideyguy0]

Can Jews play football?

Most can, yes. There's nothing that prohibits it, however some ultra-orthodox Jews say that it is not okay because it takes up time that could otherwise be used to learn Torah. The New England Patriots punter is Jewish.

[Trystenn]

He cmon noone answered me :(

But what was the Zionist movement?

[StoneGold]

Can Jews play football?
http://www.billgoldberg.com/new/photogallery/football/falconsblk.jpg

[Typo Lad]

Blessed,

Post #891, posted 06-14-2005, 11:57 PM

Use google for that one. Just too "big" a question.
BIg question! (http://www.jewfaq.org/israel.htm#Zionism) Hope that answers it!

[Typo Lad]

Most can, yes. There's nothing that prohibits it, however some ultra-orthodox Jews say that it is not okay because it takes up time that could otherwise be used to learn Torah. The New England Patriots punter is Jewish.

There's something messed up about two Jews with Yoda Avs...

[spideyguy0]

Well, he's full of wisdom and knowledge, which is something Jews value above almost everything else.

[Typo Lad]

Well, he's full of wisdom and knowledge, which is something Jews value above almost everything else.

Plus, he was voiced by a Jew, Frank Oz, and his name is actually taken from the Hebrew "Yodaya", to know.

[StoneGold]

And the most obvious thing, Yoda speaks with a Yiddish cadence.

[Flat]

How high can a jewish person jump?

[Typo Lad]

How high can a jewish person jump?

What kind of question is that?

[west3man]

What kind of question is that?
The kind I'm hoping isn't followed by a punchline.

[spideyguy0]

How high can a jewish person jump?

Well, personally I can fly.

[Typo Lad]

The kind I'm hoping isn't followed by a punchline.

Good point.

So c'mon Flat, what was that all about?

[Typo Lad]

Well, personally I can fly.

You're not supposed to tell the gentiles about that!!!

[Super Hero Guy]

Dear Jew,

what's so great about Israel exactly anyway? Does it really have that much milk and honey?

and, this mayb sound like a strange question, but is El Hebrew for God?

[Typo Lad]

Dear Jew,

WHY WON'T THIS THREAD DIE?

Seriously though, I'm amazed that people have to ask.

what's so great about Israel exactly anyway?

The State of Israel? Not much. Just another country.

The Land of Israel? Well