Let's Play "Ask The Jew"!

[Paradox]

Aarcee has a new one on me:

Which is why a lot of females got fed up with the rampant antifeminism (rymes with antisemitism) in the big three, and baisicly said "Screw you assholes, we're not following the rules of a religion where only men make the rules!", and went off and founded Wicca.

Not to threadjack Typo's thread but...what women? Where? Last I knew, Gerald Gardner (the "populizer" of Wicca in the '50s) claimed it had been around for centuries, but there's no evidence at all of it existing before the '20s, and actual founding origin is unknown (or, rather, the origin stories are all highly in dispute).

[pariah-1972]

Arcee has a great point ! thanks for pointing that out :)

[Aarcee]

Not to threadjack Typo's thread but...what women? Where? Last I knew, Gerald Gardner (the "populizer" of Wicca in the '50s) claimed it had been around for centuries, but there's no evidence at all of it existing before the '20s, and actual founding origin is unknown (or, rather, the origin stories are all highly in dispute).


Wicca is based on Druidism (which has been around for well over 2,000 years)
After the Roman invaded and conqured the Celtic lands around the first century CE, the outlawed Druidism, and after Emperor Constantine became the 1st Roman emporer to convert to Christianity, he decreed that all Roman citizens must also be Christian.
That is how Christianinty spread throughout Europe.
Although the Roman empire never conqured Ireland, they did conqor the land we now know as England, and renamed it "Britania".
After the collapse of the Roman empire, the Roman left Brittainia, and the British (as they came to be known) baisicly came down with Stolkholm syndrome and proceeded to do everything to the Irish that the Romans had done to them.
That is how Ireland came to be Christian.
But bits and pieces of traditional Celtic culture survived, and durring the 50s Gardner (and I believe his wife) gathered the surviving pieces of the Druidic religion together, and filled in the parts that had been lost as best they could.
Thus, Wicca can be thought of as a rebirth of Druidic traditions.

[Michael P]

Wicca is based on Druidism

In roughly the same way that the new Beowulf movie is based on the poem, yes.


But bits and pieces of traditional Celtic culture survived, and durring the 50s Gardner (and I believe his wife) gathered the surviving pieces of the Druidic religion together, and filled in the parts that had been lost as best they could.

I.e., they made them up.

Thus, Wicca can be thought of as a rebirth of Druidic traditions.
*BELCH*

Pardon me, I just had to rebirth breakfast for a second there.

[Paradox]

Um, Aarcee? Don't give me ancient history lessons (well, "conjecture" rather than "history", but you get what I'm saying). I should think it obvious that I already know all that stuff. You didn't answer my questions.

BTW, we know jack all about the Druids. And if Wicca is connected, it's only because it's polyglot and some of the same concepts are there.

[Typo Lad]

Boys, boys! Calm down. You can BOTH marry me!

[Matt Algren]

Boys, boys! Calm down. You can BOTH marry me!
::sniff::




i'll just be over here . . .

[Gilda Dent]

Boys, boys! Calm down. You can BOTH marry me!

Aha! So the slippery slope argument is true!

[Paradox]

Yeah, Morts, but you could keep me on the side...


...and pay my rent. :p

[Puma]

Thus, Wicca can be thought of as a rebirth of Druidic traditions.
......


Actually it is a reconstruction rather than a rebirth.

as to the rest of the statement:

Not to derail Typo's thread but this is far too simplistic of an overview of Western Europe in the 1st through the 7th centuries and doesn't consider the wide differences between peoples residing from Western Europe through the British Isles. There was no historic cohesive culture, or religion, of the Celtic peoples after the La Tene period. The various Celtic tribes shared similarities in beliefs and language (split between Goedelic and Brythonic dialects) but there is no definitive source, or sources, to tell us what, and how, the Celtic people believed and how they practiced their religion. What we do have come from those peoples who conquered them, were fighting them, or using them as "noble savages" and such evidence is questionable at best and easily misinterpreted by individuals who are not familiar with historiography.

For a thorough, if somewhat dated, survey of the Celtic people try reading Henri Hubert's The History of the Celtic People" , there is also T.D. Kendrick's "The Druids: A Study in Keltic Prehistory" again it is dated but there really isn't much new know to scholars, and for religions in the British Isles try Ronald Hutton's "The Pagan Religions of the Ancient British Isles". Stay away from Miranda Green's work on druids as she provides little if any evidence for her statements.

I spent seven futile years as a medieval grad student trying to find some evidence of Druidism in early Irish vernacular literature and society; while one can come up with some conjecture there is no proof that any significant knowledge of Druidism continued beyond the fourth century.

[Magneto X]

Actually, if oen reads the Torah and Talmud carefully, one sees that women are considered superior to men, or at the very least on a higher spiritual level.

Superior in a way that doesn't relate to greater leadership in decision-making, comfort, or personal freedom?

[mattx110]

Superior in a way that doesn't relate to greater leadership in decision-making, comfort, or personal freedom?
Esther was pretty badass.

[Typo Lad]

Superior in a way that doesn't relate to greater leadership in decision-making, comfort, or personal freedom?
In fact, Miriam, Moshe's (Moses) sister was a communal leader, as were several other women. There have been female prophets and judges in the Torah. I dob't know if I would call Esther "Badass", but she certainly managed to steer events to the Jew's favor as well.

I'm not saying sexist Jews don't exist, but it's not in line with the Torah.

Fun fact - the traditional Ketubah (marriage contract) has a built-in prenup. A passage that states that should the marrage desolve, the woman gets the return of "her orchards and any fruits", ie her assets and any interests accrued during marriage.

Very, very progressive, when taken in context with the societies at the time.

[RubinCompServ]

Superior in a way that doesn't relate to greater leadership in decision-making, comfort, or personal freedom?

Throughout the Bible, there are women who were leaders (starting at the beginning of Judaism, G-D Himself told Avraham to listen to Sarah in the matter of Yismael). Regarding personal freedom, women can do just about anything that men can (they can even hold jobs!). I'm afraid I don't quite know what you mean about comfort.

Keep in mind, also, that Judaism does <b>not</b> claim the sexes are "separate but equal", but a lack of equality does not mean that one is better than the other.

[StoneGold]

Hey, just the fact that women rabbis aren't even really an issue anymore outside of Orthodox, and haven't been for quite a while.

[RubinCompServ]

Esther was pretty badass.

As was Yael.

[Paradox]

RubinCompServ picked my choice:

As was Yael.

Hard to get more badass than a tent stake through the head.

[Aarcee]

Who's Yael?

[Paradox]

Here is Yael (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yael).

[Aarcee]

Here is Yael (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yael).

Now that woman's a badass! :evilsmile

[Paradox]

Sure, and I'll keep it related.

Typo, what's the Jewish view on the literalness of the various early books? Is the Adam and Eve (sorry, don't know the Hebrew equivalents) story, and Noah, etc. seen as literal or allegorical? Or a little of both?

[StoneGold]

Sure, and I'll keep it related.

Typo, what's the Jewish view on the literalness of the various early books? Is the Adam and Eve (sorry, don't know the Hebrew equivalents) story, and Noah, etc. seen as literal or allegorical? Or a little of both?

Two Jews, five answers category. Although you're probably more likely to find literalists in the Orthodoxy.

[Paradox]

Thanks. So, more or less like most religions, then? Most after the message and a smaller faction of literalists?

[StoneGold]

Thanks. So, more or less like most religions, then? Most after the message and a smaller faction of literalists?

If we're talking American Jews, then more than likely, yes. Just because of the number who self-identify as Reform and Conservative (or unaffiliated, or whatever, you get the drill) is larger.

But either way, it's going to be a person to person thing, much like in pretty much any other religion. Or at least every other religion where there's also a decent amount of affluence and education. Faith can breed textual literallness, but ignorance does a pretty good job of it too.

[dingo]

Faith can breed textual literallness, but ignorance does a pretty good job of it too.

That is a very intelligent observation.


I'm a little scared.

[StoneGold]

That is a very intelligent observation.


I'm a little scared.

If it makes you feel better, literalness is spelled with one l.


Funny thing is, I really wanted to phrase that sentence properly. I tend to view literalists as, well, goofy, but I know that many of them are very well educated, this is just their world view. But on the other hand, some poor third world peasant probably doesn't have any other option than what their particular religion has told them.

[Typo Lad]

Sure, and I'll keep it related.

Typo, what's the Jewish view on the literalness of the various early books? Is the Adam and Eve (sorry, don't know the Hebrew equivalents) story, and Noah, etc. seen as literal or allegorical? Or a little of both?

Well, considering that one of the central tenets of Jewish Tradition is that G-d gave the Written and Oral Laws at Sinai, and considering that the Oral Law has entire volumes based on the position of two words on a page of the written, it can be assumed that some is allegory.

We know the Torah uses the language and idiom of the time it was given. As such, scenes like Eliezer putting his hand on Avrohom's penis to make an oath seems squicky... until you realize it actually means "to swear with the Covenant as a witness."

So yeah, allegory exists according to the majority opinion. In fact, strict Literalism is considered Blasphemy.

[Super Hero Guy]

Ok, so you've got this Jewish woman who marries a Christian man. They have a daughter who converts to Islam and gets married to a Buddhist. They have a son and he decides to convert Hindu. Is this Hindu boy considered a Jew by Orthodox?

[Magneto X]

Does "bare false witness" mean to lie (like we were told as kids).
Or does it mean to be a false witness (to lie to police or in a trial).

[Jeff Brady]

Does "bare false witness" mean to lie (like we were told as kids).
Or does it mean to be a false witness (to lie to police or in a trial).

It's about lying and dishonesty in general.

Lying is lying. Context doesn't matter.

Seriously, WTF?

[mattx110]

Ok, so you've got this Jewish woman who marries a Christian man. They have a daughter who converts to Islam and gets married to a Buddhist. They have a son and he decides to convert Hindu. Is this Hindu boy considered a Jew by Orthodox?
With the issues that kid has to deal with, that should be the least of his concerns (the jewish answer).

[Typo Lad]

Ok, so you've got this Jewish woman who marries a Christian man. They have a daughter who converts to Islam and gets married to a Buddhist. They have a son and he decides to convert Hindu. Is this Hindu boy considered a Jew by Orthodox?

Still a Jew, technically speaking.

Does "bare false witness" mean to lie (like we were told as kids).
Or does it mean to be a false witness (to lie to police or in a trial).

It's about lying and dishonesty in general.

Lying is lying. Context doesn't matter.

Seriously, WTF?

We'll make a Jew of you yet, Jeff!

[Jeff Brady]

We'll make a Jew of you yet, Jeff!

Thou shalt not bring sharp implements into the Fun Zone (unless it's a medical emergency).

[Typo Lad]

That's a bigger issue for you than the whole "G-d"thing? Really?

Because nowadays, for conversions, they just prick the skin while your anesthetized.

[Magneto X]

It's about lying and dishonesty in general.

Lying is lying. Context doesn't matter.

Seriously, WTF?

Lying is lying, but bearing false witness, seems to depend on who you ask:

"Traditional division and interpretation
According to the Medieval Sefer ha-Chinuch, the first four statements concern the relationship between God and humans, while the next six statements concern the relationships between people. Rabbinic literature holds that the Ten Statements in fact contain 14 or 15 distinct instructions.

"Honor your father and your mother..."
The obligation to honor one's parents is an obligation that one owes to God and fulfills this obligation through one's actions towards one's parents.
"Do not murder"
Murdering a human being is a capital sin.[26]
"Do not commit adultery."
Adultery is defined as sexual intercourse between a man and a married woman who is not his wife.[25]
"Do not steal."
This is not understood as stealing in the conventional sense, since theft of property is forbidden elsewhere and is not a capital offense. In this context it is to be taken as "do not kidnap."[25]
"Do not bear false witness against your neighbor"
One must not bear false witness in a court of law or other proceeding.
"Do not covet your neighbor's wife"
One is forbidden to desire and plan how one may obtain that which God has given to another. Maimonides makes a distinction in codifying the laws between the instruction given here in Exodus (You shall not covet) and that given in Deuteronomy (You shall not desire), according to which one does not violate the Exodus commandment unless there is a physical action associated with the desire, even if this is legally purchasing an envied object.

Protestant:
Requires the maintaining and promoting of truth between people, and of our neighbor’s good name and our own, especially in witness-bearing.
Forbids whatsoever is prejudicial to truth, or injurious to our own, or our neighbor’s, good name.


Qur'an:
Do not withhold any testimony by concealing what you had witnessed. Anyone who withholds a testimony is sinful at heart. (2:283)


Catholic:
"Neither shall you bear false witness against your neighbor."
This commandment forbids misrepresenting the truth in relations with others. This also forbids lying. (See Catechism 2464–2513.)

"And the chief priests and all the council sought for witness against Jesus to put him to death; and found none. For many bare false witness against him, but their witness agreed not together. And there arose certain, and bare false witness against him, saying, We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands. But neither so did their witness agree together."



At least according to wikipedia.

What's the historical scoop on this one?

[Typo Lad]

Tell me, what do you think is a better source -Wiki, or someone who has been in the Yeshiva system since before he could read?

The Written Law (Torah) refers not just to courts, but is expounded on in the OralLaw (Talmud, also given at Sinai), and we learn in there that to bear false witness means many things.

Lying, sin of omission, etc.

[Michael P]

they just prick the skin

So to speak.

[Magneto X]

Tell me, what do you think is a better source -Wiki, or someone who has been in the Yeshiva system since before he could read?

The Written Law (Torah) refers not just to courts, but is expounded on in the OralLaw (Talmud, also given at Sinai), and we learn in there that to bear false witness means many things.

Lying, sin of omission, etc.

Cool. That's helpful.

I'm also curious which way the original interpretation was. Omission too back then?

I'd probably trust wikipedia over my own Sunday School, at least. For instance, I thought the "Jesus and Starfish" story was a Biblical parable. But have learned it was not.

[Jeff Brady]

That's a bigger issue for you than the whole "G-d"thing? Really?

Nah, just a joke.

Lying is lying, but bearing false witness, seems to depend on who you ask:

But if you think for yourself, the answer becomes pretty obvious.

[Paradox]

Jeff, it's not in the least obvious and this has been a point of contention across several religious fronts. Stop trying to make Mags feel stupid for asking a question that people have been asking (and not always getting the same answer to) for centuries.

[Jeff Brady]

Jeff, it's not in the least obvious and this has been a point of contention across several religious fronts. Stop trying to make Mags feel stupid for asking a question that people have been asking (and not always getting the same answer to) for centuries.

I'm not trying to make anyone feel stupid. The answer is as obvious as a punch in the face; God and His prophets make it clear that He isn't a fan of dishonesty. Whether you lie to a friend, a stranger, or in court, it's all lying, and it's all bad.

[Ilash]

Tell me, what do you think is a better source -Wiki, or someone who has been in the Yeshiva system since before he could read?

The Written Law (Torah) refers not just to courts, but is expounded on in the OralLaw (Talmud, also given at Sinai), and we learn in there that to bear false witness means many things.

Lying, sin of omission, etc.

Well, actually from what I remember learning (from a source that escapes me right now but I'm pretty sure it was a gemorah),

"Honor your father and your mother..."
The obligation to honor one's parents is an obligation that one owes to God and fulfills this obligation through one's actions towards one's parents.
"Do not murder"
Murdering a human being is a capital sin.[26]
"Do not commit adultery."
Adultery is defined as sexual intercourse between a man and a married woman who is not his wife.[25]
"Do not steal."
This is not understood as stealing in the conventional sense, since theft of property is forbidden elsewhere and is not a capital offense. In this context it is to be taken as "do not kidnap."[25]
"Do not bear false witness against your neighbor"
One must not bear false witness in a court of law or other proceeding.
"Do not covet your neighbor's wife"
One is forbidden to desire and plan how one may obtain that which God has given to another. Maimonides makes a distinction in codifying the laws between the instruction given here in Exodus (You shall not covet) and that given in Deuteronomy (You shall not desire), according to which one does not violate the Exodus commandment unless there is a physical action associated with the desire, even if this is legally purchasing an envied object.

is pretty spot on and is generally the way I've read them for years now.

Though I have no doubt that there are probably plenty of other opinions on it - this is just the one I'm most familiar with.

[Paradox]

Jeff Brady is full of it:

I'm not trying to make anyone feel stupid. The answer is as obvious as a punch in the face; God and His prophets make it clear that He isn't a fan of dishonesty. Whether you lie to a friend, a stranger, or in court, it's all lying, and it's all bad.

Yes that is ONE INTERPRETATION. Jeez, why do you not understand that the archaic phrase "bear false witness" does not mean the same thing to all people?

To keep this on topic, can we get an explanation of the Hebrew involved and the interpretation of that, just to avoid the Christian versions that may or may not say the same thing?

EDIT: And, yes, I did notice the mention above, but that's mixing the oral and written laws for a real explanation, but I'm interested in the exact written clause.

[Typo Lad]

Ilash, the "other proceeding" in Wiki would be where the Talmud mentions that saying "Yes, I took the trash out" when you did not would indeed be bearing "false witness" to an event.

And Dox? There's no such thing as an Exact Written Clause. Without the Talmud and the Messorah, we lose all understanding to Idiom and Lingual Shifts.

[Paradox]

Which is kind of my point. The phrase is archaic, therefore has lost the idiomatic and lingual aspects. Because of such, for Jeff to be crowing about the obviousness of it is a little absurd.

[Jeff Brady]

Which is kind of my point. The phrase is archaic, therefore has lost the idiomatic and lingual aspects. Because of such, for Jeff to be crowing about the obviousness of it is a little absurd.

Those ancient texts were about teaching morality. Lying is generally immoral unless there's a greater good to be considered (like hiding Jews in your attic from Nazi stormtroopers). That's why the context of in court vs random guy on the street isn't a distinction worth looking at. What bizarre reasoning could you (royal "you") come up with to justify flagrant dishonesty?

[Puma]

Those ancient texts were about teaching morality. Lying is generally immoral unless there's a greater good to be considered (like hiding Jews in your attic from Nazi stormtroopers). That's why the context of in court vs random guy on the street isn't a distinction worth looking at. What bizarre reasoning could you (royal "you") come up with to justify flagrant dishonesty?

I think it really has to do with intent, which is why it is somewhat open-ended in interpretation.

[Paradox]

Jeff Brady hoists that petard:

Those ancient texts were about teaching morality. Lying is generally immoral unless there's a greater good to be considered (like hiding Jews in your attic from Nazi stormtroopers). That's why the context of in court vs random guy on the street isn't a distinction worth looking at. What bizarre reasoning could you (royal "you") come up with to justify flagrant dishonesty?

You just answered it yourself. It's not obviously "lying is immoral" because there are exceptions to that. It could mean something else. Now, I agree, it probably doesn't, but that doesn't make it "obvious". Certainly not enough to dis the question "now wait...which way is this meant?"

[Jeff Brady]

I think it really has to do with intent, which is why it is somewhat open-ended in interpretation.

You just answered it yourself. It's not obviously "lying is immoral" because there are exceptions to that. It could mean something else. Now, I agree, it probably doesn't, but that doesn't make it "obvious". Certainly not enough to dis the question "now wait...which way is this meant?"

Which is why the answer falls under "common sense."

[Paradox]

You know you're bordering on "anyone who doesn't immediately see it the way I do is a dope" don't you?

[Jeff Brady]

You know you're bordering on "anyone who doesn't immediately see it the way I do is a dope" don't you?

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/135/328275358_6b386b4586_o.gif

[Puma]

Which is why the answer falls under "common sense."

But then you have the fact that having common sense isn't as common as it may have been in the past.

[Jeff Brady]

But then you have the fact that having common sense isn't as common as it may have been in the past.

I think there's more of it now than in the past, but by a very small degree. I defer to Kramer's signature.

[Ilash]

Ilash, the "other proceeding" in Wiki would be where the Talmud mentions that saying "Yes, I took the trash out" when you did not would indeed be bearing "false witness" to an event.


Ah yes, good point. I must admit that I overlooked those two words.

[RubinCompServ]

That's a bigger issue for you than the whole "G-d"thing? Really?

Because nowadays, for conversions, they just prick the skin while your anesthetized.

I could be mistaken, but my understanding is that one only goes through the "skin prick" if one is already circumsized. If one if not circumsized, it's the full deal. Still done under anesthesia.

[RubinCompServ]

So yeah, allegory exists according to the majority opinion. In fact, strict Literalism is considered Blasphemy.

Just to clarify, you don't mean that some of the "stories" in the Bible never took place, just that there was more to them than evidenced by the written word. Not to say that they never actually happened.

[Typo Lad]

Right.

Like, The walls at Jericho tumbled down... is that literal? Maybe. Maybe G-d caused the shofars to have such sonic force that it happened.

Or maybe it's a metaphor for utter chaos caused by the invasion.

[Magneto X]

The answer is as obvious as a punch in the face

You must get some murky punches to the face then. S/M relationship troubles, maybe?

[Jeff Brady]

You must get some murky punches to the face then. S/M relationship troubles, maybe?

I'd only let Typo's wife punch me.

I was about to respond to the rest of your post, but you deleted it. Oh well.

[Matt Algren]

I'd only let Typo's wife punch me.

I was about to respond to the rest of your post, but you deleted it. Oh well.
False witness, Jeff. False witness.

[Super Hero Guy]

Ok, I'm doing a little side project (long story...) and I need to know:

Does "Mary b-iyash-to John" mean the Mary wife of John?

and does Jane iy-mo Steve mean Jane the mother of Steve?

[Typo Lad]

Ok, I'm doing a little side project (long story...) and I need to know:

Does "Mary b-iyash-to John" mean the Mary wife of John?

and does Jane iy-mo Steve mean Jane the mother of Steve?

That feels wrong. Seem to me that "O" suffix means "your", so that would mean "Mary your wife John"

Ish Shel would be wife of, or just Ish of it is a title, I believe.

Ima Shel would work as well.

[Paul McEnery]

That's a bigger issue for you than the whole "G-d"thing? Really?

Because nowadays, for conversions, they just prick the skin while your anesthetized.

It suddenly occured to me that there's plenty of body mods that make the Jews look like pikers. Does that make Q-Nerd more Jewish than the Jews?

[Typo Lad]

Heh.

It's not really about body modification (which is technically a sin). A Bris iis a covenant. The Bris Me'ilah is a sign of the acceptance of the Covenant of the Parts.

No pun intended.

[Paradox]

Typo Lad gives press releases:

Right.

Like, The walls at Jericho tumbled down... is that literal? Maybe. Maybe G-d caused the shofars to have such sonic force that it happened.

Or maybe it's a metaphor for utter chaos caused by the invasion.

Or it could be a PR flap to bolster their reputation. Am I mistaken, or has archeology shown no one living in Jericho within a hundred years of when this took place?

EDIT: Crap, that's what I get for posting before checking. Apparently fairly recently (within the last five years or so) this has been debunked due to flaws in the original archaeological findings. **tries to pull size 9 out of a major cranial orifice** :o

[Typo Lad]

Wiki says no such thing. Although there is some argument over timelines.

A destruction of Jericho's walls dates archaeologically to around 1550 BC in the 16th century BC at the end of the Middle Bronze Age, by a siege or an earthquake in the context of a burn layer, called City IV destruction. Opinions differ as to whether they are the walls referred to in the Bible. According to one biblical chronology, the Israelites destroyed Jericho after its walls fell out around 1407 BC: the end of the 15th century. Originally, John Garstang's excavation in the 1930s dated Jericho's destruction to around 1400 BC, in confirmation, but like much early biblical archaeology, his work became criticised for using the Bible to interpret the evidence rather than letting the facts on the ground draw their own conclusions. Kathleen Kenyon's excavation in the 1950s redated it to around 1550 BC, a date that most archaeologists support.[8][9] In 1990, Bryant Wood critiqued Kenyon's work after her field notes became fully available. Observing ambiguities and relying on the only available carbon dating of the burn layer, which yielded a date of 1410 BC plus or minus 40 years, Wood dated the destruction to this carbon dating, confirming Garstang and the biblical chronology. Unfortunately, this carbon date was itself the result of faulty calibration. In 1995, Hendrik J. Bruins and Johannes van der Plicht used high-precision radiocarbon dating for eighteen samples from Jericho, including six samples of charred cereal grains from the burn layer, and overall dated the destruction to an average 1562 BC plus or minus 38 years.[10][11][12] Kenyon's date of around 1550 BC is widely accepted based on this methodology of dating. Notably, many other Canaanite cities were destroyed around this time.

Considering the Biblical Hebrews would have sacked much of Canaan at the time, it seems more logical to assume the "one Bibilical Timeline" is faulty.

Personally, I find most Biblical Timelines to sound like someone is trying to shoehorn set theories in.

Like I just did.

[Paradox]

Sorry. Sometimes I'm dealing with dated material from History Channel shows.

And too much Larry Gonick.

[Paradox]

Speaking of which, Larry Gonick's Cartoon History of the Universe has an issue that deals with the ancient Jews. Have you read this, and if so, do you think his theories match up with reality and/or the teachings?

[Typo Lad]

Is alright.

Personally, I'm kind of grooving on this whole "The Jews may have been the Hykos" theory. It melds well. Hykos were Foreign Settlers who ruled part of Egypt (Joseph's Viceroyship). They were expelled/rebelled and mostrecords were whiped out, which is what most Talmudic Scholars say happened when the Jews left Egypt.

it helps that Josephus thinks so, and he was closer to primary sources.

[Typo Lad]

Speaking of which, Larry Gonick's Cartoon History of the Universe has an issue that deals with the ancient Jews. Have you read this, and if so, do you think his theories match up with reality and/or the teachings?
I haven't read that it decades.

[Super Hero Guy]

Dear Jew,

has anyone ever tried to create a Jewish version of Santa Claus for Hannukah?

[Typo Lad]

Dear Jew,

has anyone ever tried to create a Jewish version of Santa Claus for Hannukah?
Does Saturday Night Live count?

[DarkBlade]

'bout fell over laughing and wanted to share:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2299/2091747311_bc1928dca2.jpg?v=0

[Typo Lad]

Oh that's cute.

I can has humor?

[RubinCompServ]

Happy 2008, TypoLad.

[Typo Lad]

You just had to bump it, didn't you?

[StoneGold]

Dear Jew, why are you all evil?



Sorry, just getting the thread back going in style.

[Paradox]

It's the babies you all eat, Stone. ;)

[pariah-1972]

Dear Jew
why are Jews usually considered behind so many vast conspiracy theories?
are your people that smart and evil?
and have we ever had a jewish president ?
and if we( the american people) haven't why not?

they are great at running things;)

[Typo Lad]

Dear Jew

That's "The" Jew. It's like The Batman.

why are Jews usually considered behind so many vast conspiracy theories? are your people that smart and evil?

You want just one reason?

At the end of the day, some people are xenophobic and Jews have an extra creepy "otherness" because we look just like the indigenous peoples of the lands we settle in and yet we're still different. We talk funny, act funny, and won't eat what you eat. That's just rude.

As for smart, Judaism is, generally speaking, a faith that promotes seeking knowledge. One can seek that by adhering to a specific teacher, or one can go out and learn for one's self.

There's actually a pretty big stigma on being un-smart, something which can cause issues for families that don't want to admit they have a child who is, for example, Special Needs. Heck, or one that just ain't bright.

and have we ever had a jewish president ?

Oh thank G-d, no.

and if we( the american people) haven't why not?

they are great at running things;)

No we aren't. That's an illusion created because there are some Jews who are very good at it. Others... not so much.

[pariah-1972]

That's "The" Jew. It's like The Batman.



You want just one reason?

At the end of the day, some people are xenophobic and Jews have an extra creepy "otherness" because we look just like the indigenous peoples of the lands we settle in and yet we're still different. We talk funny, act funny, and won't eat what you eat. That's just rude.

As for smart, Judaism is, generally speaking, a faith that promotes seeking knowledge. One can seek that by adhering to a specific teacher, or one can go out and learn for one's self.

There's actually a pretty big stigma on being un-smart, something which can cause issues for families that don't want to admit they have a child who is, for example, Special Needs. Heck, or one that just ain't bright.



Oh thank G-d, no.



No we aren't. That's an illusion created because there are some Jews who are very good at it. Others... not so much.I'll take a jewish president over a spoiled redneck from texas anytime.
:)

[Typo Lad]

I'll take a jewish president over a spoiled redneck from texas anytime.
:)
Any Jewish President will be seen as "in the pocket" of his or her faith, just because.

Hell, there's only been one non-Protestant President so far, correct?

[Matt Algren]

Any Jewish President will be seen as "in the pocket" of his or her faith, just because.

Hell, there's only been one non-Protestant President so far, correct?
And we took care of him but good.

...

...

::blink::

...

Any chance you could just pretend you didn't read that?

[Paradox]

Just Kennedy, yeah.

[pariah-1972]

Any Jewish President will be seen as "in the pocket" of his or her faith, just because.

Hell, there's only been one non-Protestant President so far, correct?
Did they think the same thing of Kennedy?
protestant? probably more than one knowing america.

i would rather see someone be in the pocket of there faith than in the pocket of big oil or any other shady corperate company.

[darkhanamaru]

Any Jewish President will be seen as "in the pocket" of his or her faith, just because.

Hell, there's only been one non-Protestant President so far, correct?

Dear "The" Jew,

What do you think of Bloomberg's chances if he does run and do you think his Jewish background will hurt him?

What do more religious Jews think of him anyway?

[Paradox]

pariah-1972 is at least 12 years too late to remember:

Did they think the same thing of Kennedy?

ABSOLUTELY. Definitely in the pocket of the Pope, to hear his detractors tell it.

[pariah-1972]

ABSOLUTELY. Definitely in the pocket of the Pope, to hear his detractors tell it.I figured as much really.

[Typo Lad]

Did they think the same thing of Kennedy?

Yes. Yes they did.

protestant? probably more than one knowing america.

Just checked. Nope. All WASPs.

i would rather see someone be in the pocket of there faith than in the pocket of big oil or any other shady corperate company.

Really? Because I'd rather not have either, thanks.

Dear "The" Jew,

I love you for that.

What do you think of Bloomberg's chances if he does run and do you think his Jewish background will hurt him?

I think his chances would be awesome if he got the nod from one of the big two. Were he to run indie, I think he'd get a decent turnout.

But he has no intention to run, so it's just a mental exercise.

As for his background, I think some might try to use it as a smear. Some may also assume he's defacto Ultra-Zionist and vote against him.

What do more religious Jews think of him anyway?

It runs the gamut. Usually "A nice boy, but would it kill him to wear a yarmulke?"

[Paul McEnery]

ABSOLUTELY. Definitely in the pocket of the Pope, to hear his detractors tell it.

You could do worse than being in the pocket of John 23.

[Paradox]

I'd certainly think so. WASPy America...not so much.

[Paradox]

Dear The Jew,

Is there REALLY no business like show business?

[Paul McEnery]

Dear The Jew,

Is there REALLY no business like show business?

Or is it just like no business you know?

[Paradox]

Incur karmic debt for stepping on my setup gift to Morts. :p

Plus, Ethel Merman you're not.

[Paul McEnery]

Incur karmic debt for stepping on my setup gift to Morts. :p

Plus, Ethel Merman you're not.

No where could you have that happy feeling
When you aren't stealing that extra bow

[Paradox]

On second thought...absolved. It's less of a "softball" for him now. :)

And I believe the line is "that extra bow" not "show".

[Paul McEnery]

On second thought...absolved. It's less of a "softball" for him now. :)

And I believe the line is "that extra bow" not "show".

I'm still waiting to see what he does with "next day on your dressing room they hang a star". :eek:

[Paul McEnery]

On second thought...absolved. It's less of a "softball" for him now. :)

And I believe the line is "that extra bow" not "show".

I know. I felt worried about it, looked it up, stupid vBulletin wouldn't let me edit.

It's been an awfully long time since I trod the boards, dahling.

[Paradox]

Bloom is off the Rose, as it were? ;)

[darkhanamaru]

Dear The Jew,

Is there REALLY no business like show business?

All the Jewish mobsters I knew in my early childhood certainly thought so.




Oh wait a minute, they are all legit now and are know as the music and movie industry.

[Typo Lad]

You won't succeade on Broadway if you don't have any Jews!

[Michael P]

You won't succeade on Broadway if you don't have any Jews!

It's a very small percentile who enjoys a dancing Gentile.

[Paul McEnery]

Bloom is off the Rose, as it were? ;)

I did have a little trouble with bloom on the rose, but they make wonderful ointments these days, don't they?

[StoneGold]

At the end of the day, some people are xenophobic and Jews have an extra creepy "otherness" because we look just like the indigenous peoples of the lands we settle in and yet we're still different.

You look like a Native American? How, big chief!

[StoneGold]

Incur karmic debt for stepping on my setup gift to Morts. :p

Plus, Ethel Merman you're not.

He just thought he was after the trauma from the war.



And you damned well better get that!

[Paradox]

I don't. :(

Damn you Jews and your superior brain powers!!!

[Typo Lad]

You look like a Native American? How, big chief!
I have the power to grow large, anyway.

[StoneGold]

I have the power to grow large, anyway.

Been eating too many latkes this holiday?

[StoneGold]

I don't. :(

Damn you Jews and your superior brain powers!!!

Me sad now. Airplane! The guy in the hospital thought he was Ethel Merman, and it was played by her.

[Typo Lad]

Been eating too many latkes this holiday?
I was so busy frying I forgot to eat any!

[Paradox]

StoneGold shames me:

Me sad now. Airplane! The guy in the hospital thought he was Ethel Merman, and it was played by her.

Oh, I remember THAT, of course. I guess I just don't remember that specific line. :o

[mgs]

Dear Typo,

This really isn't a question about your religion, per se, but rather a question about how you feel, as one of the Jewish faith, being so designated.

I was wondering how you feel about the supposed rumor that TLC tattoo artist Kat Von D signed one of her pictures to her former boss, Ami, calling him a 'Jewbag', who should 'burn in hell'. I think there was a little swastika too. I like Kat, I love her work. I am biased towards believing her, but it might be true. People who believe the rumor have said that this is blatantly racist and disgusting, in the least.

The thing is, even if she did write it, I don't see it that way. The way I see it is, her ex-boss, whom she has a history with, just hate each other and he happens to be Jewish. Some people are trying to argue the fact that she has a little German in her blood, is proof of her racism.

If it was written as anything like, 'all jews should burn in hell' or something, then it would be racist. I am not particularly offended by racist remarks against my kind if someone's using them for someone they hate, not using them in a blank statement. The signature may be insensitive, but racist?

But, I am biased nor am I Jewish, so I was wondering how you feel about something like this.

Thanks, mgs

[VanEyck]

Dear Typo,

If you had to estimate, what percent of American Jews actually attempt to live their lives without any form of usury?

And do you think that there is any hope at all for cooperation between Muslims and Jews (and possibly some really old-school Christians) on this particular issue?

[DoctorDoom]

OOh Ooh .... Totally pop influenced and non serious question.

When Moses was in Egypt land, what did he say?

[Typo Lad]

Dear Typo,

This really isn't a question about your religion, per se, but rather a question about how you feel, as one of the Jewish faith, being so designated.

I was wondering how you feel about the supposed rumor that TLC tattoo artist Kat Von D signed one of her pictures to her former boss, Ami, calling him a 'Jewbag', who should 'burn in hell'. I think there was a little swastika too. I like Kat, I love her work. I am biased towards believing her, but it might be true. People who believe the rumor have said that this is blatantly racist and disgusting, in the least.

The thing is, even if she did write it, I don't see it that way. The way I see it is, her ex-boss, whom she has a history with, just hate each other and he happens to be Jewish. Some people are trying to argue the fact that she has a little German in her blood, is proof of her racism.

If it was written as anything like, 'all jews should burn in hell' or something, then it would be racist. I am not particularly offended by racist remarks against my kind if someone's using them for someone they hate, not using them in a blank statement. The signature may be insensitive, but racist?

But, I am biased nor am I Jewish, so I was wondering how you feel about something like this.

Thanks, mgs

I think it was bone stupid and offensive., but I dunno about racist. Sounds like she hates the guy regardless of race.

I also bet it ups her ratings.

Dear Typo,

If you had to estimate, what percent of American Jews actually attempt to live their lives without any form of usury?

I would not even venture a guess. I would say if even one Jew doesn't, then the answer is "not enough".

And do you think that there is any hope at all for cooperation between Muslims and Jews (and possibly some really old-school Christians) on this particular issue?

What, usury?

well, one could always go back to the barter system.

OOh Ooh .... Totally pop influenced and non serious question.

When Moses was in Egypt land, what did he say?

Let my people goooo

[Bear]

Dear Typo,

I'm from Borough Park, originally; do you celebrate as an Hasidim, Orthodox, or another sect of Judaism?

Bear

[Jeff Brady]

Dear Typo,

I'm from Borough Park, originally; do you celebrate as an Hasidim, Orthodox, or another sect of Judaism?

Bear

He's Orthodox.

[DoctorDoom]

Let my people goooo

Thank you. I love you.

[StoneGold]

Dear Jew,

Is it true that there is some kind of Jewish conspiracy? Because I heard this one Jew got his company to give another Jew a phone call about a job.

[Bear]

Thank you. I love you.

And now today's useless fact: according to the book of Exodus, when they fled Egypt, they also took the remains of Joseph with them.

Now how would you like to wander the desert for 40 years with that stinky dead dude on your back? Sounds to me like the ancients world's "Weekend at Bernie's."

He's Orthodox.

Thanks Jeff.

[Typo Lad]

It should be noted that Joseph was, against Jewish custom, mummified at the time.

And when they say "wandered", you do know they camped for long periods of time, sometimes over a decade in one spot, yes?

Also, Modern Orthodox might be more accurate. or Centrist or Neo orthodox.

I like to just call myself 'jewish" and be done with it.

[Radioactive Zombie]

Is yiddish an offshoot of hewbrew?

[/dumbquestion]

[Typo Lad]

Yiddish is a pidgin language with elements of Hebrew, German, and Polish.

[Roquefort Raider]

Yiddish is a pidgin language with elements of Hebrew, German, and Polish.

Is it closer to one or the other? To my Yiddish-uneducated ear, it really sounds a lot more like German than anything else. ("Bei mir bist du shayn" = "Bei mir bist du schön"... "Oy vey" = "Oh Weh"... "bissel" = "bischen"... although these might not be typical examples).

[Typo Lad]

I'm not that Yiddish educated either, but I'd say the german level is pretty heavy.

[beetlebum]

Dear Jew,

I know as a person of faith myself (Christian), there are some things that I wrestle with with on a daily basis.

And in some instances, I really don't have the answer too them.

This may be one of them.

Regarding the Old Testament and rape; I came across this interesting article (http://answering-islam.org.uk/Shamoun/ot_and_rape.htm).

It certainly did open my eyes and and make me think. Before this, I certainly had a lot of conflicting feelings when reading those OT passages. I still do now. When you read those laws, they seem to place an emphasis on the proving the victim's innocence. It was not until I read this was I able to better understand and see things in the context it was written in.

And then there's Judges 21, where the Benjamites take wives for themselves.

I've even included parts of this in a long rant I wrote about the sexual double standard on one of my blogs. If you could further expatiate upon this premise for me, that would be great. I look forward to hearing your views. Grazie. :)

[Typo Lad]

Beetle,

The thing about those laws is that they don't translate well to English at ALL. They also are next to meaningless without the Oral Law (Talmud). We spent an entire semester in college discussing the laws of Rape and Seduction (Ones and M'Phateh) and barely scratched the surface.

That verse refers to a specific period, when a girl is no longer a minor, but not yet technically an adult (An adult single woman is called a Besulah, virgin, regardless of state of her hymen. it's a legal thing). During this short period, she cannot marry and technically cannot give consent. Any sex is, automatically, rape.

The father is paid because technically he is, legally, entitled to a bride price. The man "must" marry her, but there are ways for the girl to get out of it found in the talmud. The bit about him having to marry her is to get him to think twice. Frankly, that entire verse is male-slanted. It's saying "Yeah, that's a sweet young thing and you'd love to tap it, but if you're busted, you're out thirty shekel and stuck with an immature wife. Do you really want that?"

I'm not going to pretend the Torah is this huge feminist text, but it's not anywhere near as sexist as one thinks if one studies the Talmud as well.

A classic example, the Sotah, or a wife whose husband suspects her of adultery but cannot prove it. She has to drink a "magic potion", and if she doesn't die, he has to divorce her.

When read cold in the Torah, it sounds like a long "how to murder your wife" screed. When studied in depth, it's almost certainly a brilliant way for a woman to get out of an abusive marriage where the husband refuses to grant a divorce.

It's all in how deep we look. Sadly, few do.

[beetlebum]

Beetle,

The thing about those laws is that they don't translate well to English at ALL. They also are next to meaningless without the Oral Law (Talmud). We spent an entire semester in college discussing the laws of Rape and Seduction (Ones and M'Phateh) and barely scratched the surface.

That verse refers to a specific period, when a girl is no longer a minor, but not yet technically an adult (An adult single woman is called a Besulah, virgin, regardless of state of her hymen. it's a legal thing). During this short period, she cannot marry and technically cannot give consent. Any sex is, automatically, rape.

The father is paid because technically he is, legally, entitled to a bride price. The man "must" marry her, but there are ways for the girl to get out of it found in the talmud. The bit about him having to marry her is to get him to think twice. Frankly, that entire verse is male-slanted. It's saying "Yeah, that's a sweet young thing and you'd love to tap it, but if you're busted, you're out thirty shekel and stuck with an immature wife. Do you really want that?"

I'm not going to pretend the Torah is this huge feminist text, but it's not anywhere near as sexist as one thinks if one studies the Talmud as well.

A classic example, the Sotah, or a wife whose husband suspects her of adultery but cannot prove it. She has to drink a "magic potion", and if she doesn't die, he has to divorce her.

When read cold in the Torah, it sounds like a long "how to murder your wife" screed. When studied in depth, it's almost certainly a brilliant way for a woman to get out of an abusive marriage where the husband refuses to grant a divorce.

It's all in how deep we look. Sadly, few do.

Okay, thanks, although I'm still a bit confused about the wives for the Benjamites part. I'll have to find more background on it. I'll have to look into Talmud more for clarification. All I know is thankfully, contrary to what some say, the Old Testament does not condone rape. And my rant included that clarification. Thanks again. :)

[Typo Lad]

Yeah, it very much does not condone rape. Not unless you're going into reading it utterly blind and with a complete lack of understanding of Ancient Hebrew language and idiom.

I have to re-read Judges, as it's been well over a decade (almost two, in fact), but as I recall the Benjamites weren't exactly thought fondly of for it.

[Mac Danny]

Dear Typo..

How come Hebrew National Hot dogs come in packages of 7 while other non kosher hot dogs come in packages of 8?

Is it because 7 is a biblical number?

Is it just to feel special?

Did Elijah take his already?

I love the hot dogs but I am always left with an extra bun.

[Typo Lad]

Don't ask me. They're not even actually Kosher, just Kosher-style. I have yet to meet anyone who observes Kosher who eats those, and that includes Conservative Jews.

And 8 is a Biblical number too. 7 is the number of nature and 8 is the number of G-d over nature.

[Mac Danny]

Don't ask me. They're not even actually Kosher, just Kosher-style. I have yet to meet anyone who observes Kosher who eats those, and that includes Conservative Jews.

And 8 is a Biblical number too. 7 is the number of nature and 8 is the number of G-d over nature.

So if Man is 5 and the Devil is 6 then that must make Hot Dogs 7.

This Hot Dog's going to Heaven...

[jessecuster3]

Yikes, now I am bringing it back.

Thoughts? (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/02/magazine/02jewishness-t.html?ex=1205211600&en=036f0c0181c91034&ei=5070&emc=eta1)

[Typo Lad]

Massive, massive ongoing issue that I don't want to touch, honestly. I will say that, as someone married to a covert, I don't like the idea of someone who has never met us deciding my wife's conversion was invalid.

[jessecuster3]

Massive, massive ongoing issue that I don't want to touch, honestly. I will say that, as someone married to a covert, I don't like the idea of someone who has never met us deciding my wife's conversion was invalid.

Fair enough.

[Slaysh219]

Dear Jew,

What is your opinion on something like this (http://dreamingofmoshiach.blogspot.com/2008/03/until-purim.html)?

[Typo Lad]

Dear Jew,

What is your opinion on something like this (http://dreamingofmoshiach.blogspot.com/2008/03/until-purim.html)?
I think that saying "so-and-so predicted this" is useless without direct quotes and sources.

Much the way the "Bible Codes" can be manipulated to say whatever the searcher wants, false Kaballah can be a tool to manipulate.

[Slaysh219]

I think that saying "so-and-so predicted this" is useless without direct quotes and sources.

Much the way the "Bible Codes" can be manipulated to say whatever the searcher wants, false Kaballah can be a tool to manipulate.


Do you feel the same way about the whole Lubavich/Messiah movement?

[Typo Lad]

Do you feel the same way about the whole Lubavich/Messiah movement?
Hello, what lovely bait.

I'm going to assume you have some passing knowledge of Judaism? It's hard to tell. You've only made four posts in three years, all on this thread, so I know nothing about you.

Anyway…

My paternal great-grandfather was one of many youth conscripted into the Tzar's army. When he came out, he knew next to nothing about Judaism. All he knew is he was Jewish. The only group that would take him at the time was the Lubavitch movement. As such, my family has many Lubavitch customs, including the tradition we pray in. My grandfather OBM grew up around the late Rav, and they were friends. My grandmother OBM had a special relationship with the Rav as well. The late Rebbe would often ask my father how my grandparents are. When he would say "Fine, Rebbe" he would always remark "Your mother is a very special woman. You should know this."

I say this not to namedrop, but to establish that I am biased.

I think the Lubavitch movement has done great things. I think if one accepts the concept that a person can have the potential to be Moshiach, then I, unlearned though I am, could see the Rebbe as being such a person. I do not, however, believe that he was simply because we're still in Exile. Nor do I believe in a resurrected Moshiach, as such an idea is Anathema to Torah Judaism.

The Rebbe touched many lives deeply and some are unable to let go. Others are, sadly, attached to the power they have.

There is a real schism in Lubavitch (well, at least one). The Messianists control the name, but there is still good being done in the Lubavitch tradition. I side with those who say that Messianist Lubacitch borders on heresy, and that we must refute it. As such I avoid using Lubavitch Kosher certification unless I know those involved are Non-Messianists or associating with such types, as it will lead to strife.

I hope this answered your question.

[jobies201]

Dear Jew,
Why is it when we go into your hotel you try to hide your Jew horns and then transform and attack us in the middle of the night?

Anyway...

In all seriousness, maybe this has been asked, what is the difference between Judaism and Christianity? And who is Yahweh?

Note: Borat joke... Not Jew bashing...

[StoneGold]

Dear Jew,
Why is it when we go into your hotel you try to hide your Jew horns and then transform and attack us in the middle of the night?

Anyway...

In all seriousness, maybe this has been asked, what is the difference between Judaism and Christianity? And who is Yahweh?

Note: Borat joke... Not Jew bashing...

Yahweh is God. Which Typo would spell G-d, but I'm all heretical.


And the key difference would be that Jews don't believe that God knocked up some girl as some kind of spiritual vessel to redeem humanity. There's other stuff, but it varies depending on what brand of both Judaism and Christianity you practice. The Jesus thing, though, would be the biggest deciding factor.



Unless you're a Jews for Jesus, but that's mostly just a pyramid scheme.

[Typo Lad]

I got the reference.

The differences are way too huge to even go into here in any kind of detail.

The core difference, however, would be that The Christians believe Jesus was the Messiah. They are, theologically, descended from a group of Jews who followed him as a teacher and then worshiped him as a deity. The then-mainstream Jewish people rejected this and them.

Everything else is icing.

The word you typed, which I will not type, is a transliteration of one of the names of G-d in the Torah. Actual pronunciation is not known, as it is forbidden to pronounce it.

[Jeff Brady]

In all seriousness, maybe this has been asked, what is the difference between Judaism and Christianity? And who is Yahweh?

YHWH is basically a name for God.

Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism. It follows the basic structure of the Torah (aka Old Testament), more specifically the history it details, and a few of the rules it has.

Jews do not believe that Christ was the messiah as promised in the Torah. Technically, Christ was a heretic.

Christianity, of course, thinks differently. That Christ was the messiah, the son of God, and that his teachings (as detailed in the New Testament) are the key to man's redemption.

Some helpful links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity

[StoneGold]

I got the reference.

The differences are way too huge to even go into here in any kind of detail.

The core difference, however, would be that The Christians believe Jesus was the Messiah. They are, theologically, descended from a group of Jews who followed him as a teacher and then worshiped him as a deity. The then-mainstream Jewish people rejected this and them.

Everything else is icing.

The word you typed, which I will not type, is a transliteration of one of the names of G-d in the Torah. Actual pronunciation is not known, as it is forbidden to pronounce it.

You owe me a Kosher for Passover Coke. You know, the good ones with the real sugar.

[Typo Lad]

Actually Jeff, I think technically Jesus's followers would be the heretics, as what he preached wasn't officially heresy. It would be when the whole anthropomorphism and ressurection came into play that it became heresy.

[Typo Lad]

You owe me a Kosher for Passover Coke. You know, the good ones with the real sugar.
They're on shelves now! Yay!

[DoctorDoom]

Is there really a fiddler on your roof?

And what would you do if you were a rich man?

[jobies201]

The word you typed, which I will not type, is a transliteration of one of the names of G-d in the Torah. Actual pronunciation is not known, as it is forbidden to pronounce it.

Oh, didn't realize you couldn't say/type it. Didn't mean to offend.

[Typo Lad]

Is there really a fiddler on your roof?

It's a metaphor.

And what would you do if you were a rich man?

I am rich. Rich in friends and family. What else does a man need?

[Typo Lad]

Oh, didn't realize you couldn't say/type it. Didn't mean to offend.
Not offended.

[Matt Algren]

It's a metaphor.



I am rich. Rich in friends and family. What else does a man need?
Money.

What kind of Jew are you?!?

[DoctorDoom]

It's a metaphor.



I am rich. Rich in friends and family. What else does a man need?
Well played. Til next time, Typo.

Le'hitraot.

(I think that's bye in Hebrew, right?)

[Typo Lad]

Le'hitraot is best translated "till I see you next". It's a Modern Hebrew way to say goodbye, which is technically Shalom. "bye" is just "L'hit".

Only classless people say L'hit.

[Slaysh219]

Hello, what lovely bait.

I'm going to assume you have some passing knowledge of Judaism? It's hard to tell. You've only made four posts in three years, all on this thread, so I know nothing about you.

I'm sorry; I didn't mean to try to bait you, Im just a habitual lurker with random questions.


I hope this answered your question.

It did, and thank you for your time.

[Typo Lad]

Forgive my suspicion. Just seemed odd to have two potential poweder-keg questions in a row.

[DoctorDoom]

Le'hitraot is best translated "till I see you next". It's a Modern Hebrew way to say goodbye, which is technically Shalom. "bye" is just "L'hit".

Only classless people say L'hit.
Did you just educate or insult me?

I'm in college so I'm not 'classless'!

(I know what you meant, Typo :p )

[Mac Danny]

I got the reference.

The differences are way too huge to even go into here in any kind of detail.

The core difference, however, would be that The Christians believe Jesus was the Messiah. They are, theologically, descended from a group of Jews who followed him as a teacher and then worshiped him as a deity. The then-mainstream Jewish people rejected this and them.

Everything else is icing.

The word you typed, which I will not type, is a transliteration of one of the names of G-d in the Torah. Actual pronunciation is not known, as it is forbidden to pronounce it.

All I said was that meal was good enough for Jehovah..

[Paradox]

If Typo Lad allow me?:http://forums.comicbookresources.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=6533521&postcount=3150)

Not offended.

Isn't that another rather large difference? That Jews believe their rules are for Jews, whereas Christians think their rules are for everyone?

[Mac Danny]

Isn't that another rather large difference? That Jews believe their rules are for Jews, whereas Christians think their rules are for everyone?

You mean they are not?

KILL THE HERETIC!

[Paradox]

I'm not a heretic, I'm a heathen. :)

[Mac Danny]

I'm not a heretic, I'm a heathen. :)

KILL THEM TOO! And WITCHES! Kill WITCHES!

[Paradox]

I was a witch for a while, but too many witches are bitches. :p

[Typo Lad]

Hey! Knock it off! Every time this thread gets bumped an angel looses it's wings.

[Paradox]

Let 'em use a plane like honest folk!

**bump-bump-bumpity-bump**

"I don't know why people think Angels are beatific. They scare the crap out of me." - John Constantine :D

[Bouncing Boy]

Dear Jew,

This isn't a question, but I just wanted to tell an anecdote about last nights Seder Dinner at the Lutheran Church I go to. After the reading of the Passover story, as we were wating to be served the dinner, someone at my table said, "Why is it that they always show 'The Ten Commandments' at Easter? It's not really an Easter story." Everyone else at the table either stared in disbelief or laughed at her..

[Cthulhudrew]

Hey! Knock it off! Every time this thread gets bumped an angel looses it's wings.

Do Jews have angels? :p

(Actually, I'm pretty sure they do, but since we're on the topic- mind clarifying for certain?)

[Rallura]

I am rich. Rich in friends and family. What else does a man need?


One long staircase just going up, and one even longer coming down, and one more leading nowhere just for show, of course.

[Bouncing Boy]

One long stair way just going up, and one even longer coming down, and one more leading nowhere just for show, of course.

It's staircase, not stair way...I want a divorce

[Rallura]

It's staircase, not stair way...I want a divorce

I hate you.

[Bouncing Boy]

I hate you.

I love you

[Paradox]

Hey, man...if you don't want her... :)

[Rallura]

I love you

Right, like it's going to be that easy!

Hey, man...if you don't want her... :)

See? I have options! OPTIONS!

tee hee

[Bouncing Boy]

Right, like it's going to be that easy!

Even I know when to not touch a line thats that much of a set up.


See? I have options! OPTIONS!

Yeah, but he smokes.

tee hee

ha ha

[Angelus II]

Dear Jew,

What is your quest?

What is your favorite color?

What is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?

[Alex Scott]

Do you have a favorite book from the Tanakh? Or a favorite passage?

[Jeff Brady]

Dear Jew,

What is your quest?

What is your favorite color?

What is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?

Oooh! I know this one!

1) To honor and obey G-d.

2) White, the light of G-d.

3) What do you mean; African or European?

[Paradox]

Digest-worthy. :)

[Typo Lad]

It's late, but my Jew Sense was tingling.

Do Jews have angels? :p

(Actually, I'm pretty sure they do, but since we're on the topic- mind clarifying for certain?)

Yes. Different in concept, though. Jewish thought of Angels are as extentions of G-d's will, with no Free Will of their own.


See? I have options! OPTIONS!


Oh honey, he's so not an option.

Dear Jew,

What is your quest?

What is your favorite color?

What is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?

I love that movie.

Do you have a favorite book from the Tanakh? Or a favorite passage?

Favorite book is probably Rus (Ruth).

Favorite passage is tricky., Will have to mull that over.

[Angelus II]

Dear Jew,

Do you believe in little green men?

[Typo Lad]

Dear Angelus,

Do you believe in asking serious questions?

[DoctorDoom]

Is there a JCC in your area? And what's it like?

[Typo Lad]

There are two that I know of, but I've never checked them out.

[Bouncing Boy]

I actually have a question about the Seder dinner we had at our church. When the pastor was breaking the matzah(sp?) he said something about hiding a piece of the matzah. Then later, after diner he sent the kids to look for the hidden matzah but it wasn't really matzah it was little cardboard stars that were taped to the undersides of some of the chairs, and they seemed to have enough for all the kids to have found one.

My question is in two parts, is this a traditional part of the jewish seder? and if so, do you have enough pieces for all the kids to find or is this just a case of Lutherans being too concerned for the feelings of the kids that don't find one.

[StoneGold]

No, the idea is that one kid finds it and gets the reward. Technically, it's not even a reward, but the kid holding the thing for ransom, because you can't continue the service without it. Generally though, at least in my family, cash prizes are handed out to everyone under a certain height.

[beetlebum]

Dear Angelus,

Do you believe in asking serious questions?

To answer your question, Typo; I say no.

I present to you, the evidence:


Here (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=191752&page=958)

As well as here. (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=208672&page=4)

Just be wary of who you are addressing.

[Bouncing Boy]

No, the idea is that one kid finds it and gets the reward. Technically, it's not even a reward, but the kid holding the thing for ransom, because you can't continue the service without it. Generally though, at least in my family, cash prizes are handed out to everyone under a certain height.

<snark>So if you married a midget, she'd be able to get money despite not actually being a kid?</snark>

[StoneGold]

<snark>So if you married a midget, she'd be able to get money despite not actually being a kid?</snark>

Dude, you don't marry the midget. You just keep her in the crawlspace until you actually need her.



And as far as being offensive, you used the word midget, that's like the n-word now, isn't it?

[Cthulhudrew]

Yes. Different in concept, though. Jewish thought of Angels are as extentions of G-d's will, with no Free Will of their own.

But Satan is in Jewish theology isn't he? (I think the story of the Fall from Heaven is Old Testament, but I am definitely not sure of that). So where does that fit? Was Lucifer's fall preordained, then?

[Tages]

But Satan is in Jewish theology isn't he? (I think the story of the Fall from Heaven is Old Testament, but I am definitely not sure of that). So where does that fit? Was Lucifer's fall preordained, then?

Lucifer acts as God's Attorney General in the Book of Job.

[Jeff Brady]

To answer your question, Typo; I say no.

I present to you, the evidence:


Here (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=191752&page=958)

As well as here. (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=208672&page=4)

Just be wary of who you are addressing.

You need to link to the posts, not the page numbers.

[Typo Lad]

But Satan is in Jewish theology isn't he? (I think the story of the Fall from Heaven is Old Testament, but I am definitely not sure of that). So where does that fit? Was Lucifer's fall preordained, then?

"The Fall" is, in fact, not a part of the Torah. It's learned out as a sort of "metatext" from the last bit of Genisis before Noah, but not my Jews.

"Satan" as an actual "opposing force" does not exist, no.

Lucifer acts as God's Attorney General in the Book of Job.

Actually, if one takes Eyov (Job) as something that actually occurred, as opposed to a discourse on Faith in Adversity, it is taken that G-d created an Accuser for that occasion.

More on Angels...

Angels serve a set role. For example, if an Angel is sent to heal, it is Raphael (G-d's Healing). If it is sent to give a message or warn, it is called Michoel (Like G-d, From G-d... not 100% sure). As I recall, they do not exist when not "in service" and merely are some form of in potentia. There are "heavenly hosts" with the sole purpose of praising G-d. There are also supposed to be representative Angels of every nation. There is a heavenly roll of "Accuser", typically called Satan in the King James, but there is no Free Will on the part of that Angel. It is "programmed" to find our faults and report them, like an anti-virus. It doesn't tempt us or lead us into anything. Only we can tempt ourselves.

The Hebrew word for Angel is Malach, literally meaning Messenger.

[Sandy Hausler]

I know this thread is for generic questions about Jewish law, practice and thought, but I thought we might actually link it to events in a recent comic book. In Issue 3 of The Twelve, Mister E was revealed to be a Jew, who changed his name so that he would not be seen as a Jew and accepted among the gentiles. After he disappeared his family turned back to his Jewish roots (not clear if they became religious or just identifiably Jewish) and his 68-year old son despises him for turning his back on his religion. Now, I know that this story is not yet done, but I was wondering what you, Typo, and the rest of your readers made of it.

Oh, by the way, we're neighbors now. I've moved to Teaneck.

Sandy Hausler

[Typo Lad]

I know this thread is for generic questions about Jewish law, practice and thought, but I thought we might actually link it to events in a recent comic book. In Issue 3 of The Twelve, Mister E was revealed to be a Jew, who changed his name so that he would not be seen as a Jew and accepted among the gentiles. After he disappeared his family turned back to his Jewish roots (not clear if they became religious or just identifiably Jewish) and his 68-year old son despises him for turning his back on his religion. Now, I know that this story is not yet done, but I was wondering what you, Typo, and the rest of your readers made of it.

I was waiting for the trade, actually.

Sniff.

Seriously though, the "Jew changes his name thing" sounds fascinating, especially from a company using characters made by young Jews who did just that.

Oh, by the way, we're neighbors now. I've moved to Teaneck.


Welcome! If you're looking for a good Shul, I go to an awesome one.

And hey, let us know if you need a place for a Shabbat meal some time.

[LtMarvel]

The Hebrew word for Angel is Malach, literally meaning Messenger.

Now you are just repeating what my pastor said during reading the New Testament.

Anyway, since I'm posting...

On a personal level, how do you eat when you travel? Take a cooler?

[Typo Lad]

Now you are just repeating what my pastor said during reading the New Testament.

I like any Pastor who knows Hebrew.

On a personal level, how do you eat when you travel? Take a cooler?

Depends. First thing I do is check the internet to see if there is a local Jewish community and/or a large chain store where I can get food. For example, when I go to my in-laws (which I have not done in four years. Sigh), I buy what I can at the Kroger near them (West Memphis), but we also do a shopping trip in Memphis proper at the Sanderland Kroger, where they have an in-house Kosher butcher. Should I ever have to go to Nashville, I know there's one Coffee Shop I can eat at and no meat places.

I went to SF recently and brought a lot of small packages of cereal, some snacks, and Kosher, self-heating MREs (http://labriutemeals.com/). My co-workers were fascinated by them. They're okay. It's a good thing I brought them because the one Kosher place in Embarcadero closed way before we got back to the area.

My mother is off to Poland and Germany today, and is bringing a ton of pre-packaged foods. There's very, very little to eat there other than fresh fruits and vegetables.

It's a lot easier to keep Kosher on the road than it was even ten years ago. It also helps that large chain stores like Subway are opening Kosher versions, and that's something that is really opening new markets.

So basically, I either bring my own or research my options.

[Rabid Trekkie]

But Satan is in Jewish theology isn't he? (I think the story of the Fall from Heaven is Old Testament, but I am definitely not sure of that). So where does that fit? Was Lucifer's fall preordained, then?

Could be forgetting something important here, but I'm pretty sure that the fall from heaven is only directly mentioned in Revelations. Satan's actions in the Old Testament can be viewed from either a Christian or a Judaism view. The New Testament. The only different passage is in Isaiah, but the name given there is Lucifer and not Satan so I don't know how Judaism looks at that passage. There is also a passage in Ezekiel about a Prince of Tyrus/Tyre that Christianity also says is about Satan, not sure of the Judaism view of this one either, but again it doesn't use the name/title Satan directly so that may mark the difference there.

[Angelus II]

Dear Angelus,

Do you believe in asking serious questions?

I was just getting warm up!!!!

Dear Jew,

Why (exactly) can't Jewish people eat meat with dairy?

Dear Jew,

Who is the bigger threat toward the Jews?
Osama bin laden or Saddam Hussein

[Typo Lad]

I was just getting warm up!!!!

Your English is as bad as mine... I like that in a poster.

Why (exactly) can't Jewish people eat meat with dairy?

Because we are commended to "not cook a Kid [the goat kind, not the people kind!] in it's mother's milk". This verse in the Written Law (aka Torah) is expounded on in the Oral Law (aka Talmud) to ban the mixing of dairy and meat products altogether, no matter how they are prepared (as in, "well, I can't COOK it, so I'll fry it". Um.. no).

There are other forbidden mixtures. For example, one cannot mix fish and meat and is not allowed to even use the same utensils. Unlike meat and dairy, however, they may be eaten at the same meal - just not the same course.

[Angelus II]

Your English is as bad as mine... I like that in a poster. Yeah, basicly we just watch movies in English class. Some how my school has the best education in the state.



Because we are commended to "not cook a Kid [the goat kind, not the people kind!] in it's mother's milk". This verse in the Written Law (aka Torah) is expounded on in the Oral Law (aka Talmud) to ban the mixing of dairy and meat products altogether, no matter how they are prepared (as in, "well, I can't COOK it, so I'll fry it". Um.. no).

There are other forbidden mixtures. For example, one cannot mix fish and meat and is not allowed to even use the same utensils. Unlike meat and dairy, however, they may be eaten at the same meal - just not the same course.

So, Hogan did bad.

[Typo Lad]

Yeah, basicly we just watch movies in English class. Some how my school has the best education in the state.

See, I'm mildly dyslexic.

My excuse FTW!

So, Hogan did bad.

Heh. Yes. Mildly amusing. He would have been wiser to just get it catered.

[Puma]

Depends. First thing I do is check the internet to see if there is a local Jewish community and/or a large chain store where I can get food. For example, when I go to my in-laws (which I have not done in four years. Sigh), I buy what I can at the Kroger near them (West Memphis), but we also do a shopping trip in Memphis proper at the Sanderland Kroger, where they have an in-house Kosher butcher. Should I ever have to go to Nashville, I know there's one Coffee Shop I can eat at and no meat places.




What do you do about food prep in your In-laws kitchen though? They don't keep two sets of dishes, etc. do they?

[Typo Lad]

What do you do about food prep in your In-laws kitchen though? They don't keep two sets of dishes, etc. do they?
No. No they don't.

We have our own stuff in storage there. We actually have to get some frying pans. Last time I was there we lived on stuff made on a new George Forman Grill, salad, and cold cereal. Suzannah buys microwave stuff now and kashers (makes Kosher) the microwave) when it's just her.

[StoneGold]

Dear Jewier Jew than me,


The periodical debate about character ethnicity came up on the Marvel board the other day. The general question came up about the spawn of Magneto. Now, my point of view is that, assuming Magneto is Jewish this month, even if you want to ignore the matrilinial descent thing, none of his kids were raised Jewish or self-identify that way. So they would not be Jewish, just because ethnicity is more about how you were raised, and they were raised Romani/whatever the hell Polaris grew up as, assuming she is still Maggie's daughter this week. I know from past discussion you are hung up on genetics, but honestly, the genetic component is very small, and can be found in plenty of people no one would consider Jewish.

So the real question is: obviously not in terms of religion, but is there any other way that you would consider the Magneto brood Jewish?

[Typo Lad]

Dear Jewier Jew than me,

Shouldn't that be "Jewier Jew than I"?

The periodical debate about character ethnicity came up on the Marvel board the other day.

What, no link?

The general question came up about the spawn of Magneto. Now, my point of view is that, assuming Magneto is Jewish this month, even if you want to ignore the matrilinial descent thing, none of his kids were raised Jewish or self-identify that way. So they would not be Jewish, just because ethnicity is more about how you were raised, and they were raised Romani/whatever the hell Polaris grew up as, assuming she is still Maggie's daughter this week. I know from past discussion you are hung up on genetics, but honestly, the genetic component is very small, and can be found in plenty of people no one would consider Jewish.

So the real question is: obviously not in terms of religion, but is there any other way that you would consider the Magneto brood Jewish?

Magneto's brood would not be considered Jewish by Orthodox Judaism or by the State of Israel, unless they decided to convert after the fact.

The Nazis would have killed them anyway, but most likely would have put them in one of the camps for the Rom. They were funny like that.

[StoneGold]

Magneto's brood would not be considered Jewish by Orthodox Judaism or by the State of Israel, unless they decided to convert after the fact.

The Nazis would have killed them anyway, but most likely would have put them in one of the camps for the Rom. They were funny like that.

Yeah, I know that, I was more wondering about your personal opinion. Speaking for myself, if they wanted to claim the heritage, I'd have no problem with that. But since they never have, I'd go with "Not Jewish."

[jessecuster3]

Ok here's a question that has come up, as far as Israel is concerned its only matrilinear, right? It really is an absolute across the board?


I mean they can be raised Jewish, right?

[StoneGold]

Ok here's a question that has come up, as far as Israel is concerned its only matrilinear, right? It really is an absolute across the board?


I mean they can be raised Jewish, right?

No. Hell, it can be a bitch getting in even if you do have the matrilinial thing, depending on what country you're from. There was an article in the NYT about this recently. They're really locking down on entrance requirements.

[jessecuster3]

No. Hell, it can be a bitch getting in even if you do have the matrilinial thing, depending on what country you're from. There was an article in the NYT about this recently. They're really locking down on entrance requirements.

I don't especially care about travelling to Israel as much as I care about identity, here. If only the father is Jewish, I mean.

[Typo Lad]

Yeah, I know that, I was more wondering about your personal opinion. Speaking for myself, if they wanted to claim the heritage, I'd have no problem with that. But since they never have, I'd go with "Not Jewish."

I'd have to agree with you on it, honestly. Were they to claim it, I would have the same opinion I have of my sister-in-law's Non-Orthodox Conversion: It's nice that they want the identity and I'd be respectful of that, but I wouldn't count them for a minyan (quorum for prayer) or drink wine they poured.

Ok here's a question that has come up, as far as Israel is concerned its only matrilinear, right? It really is an absolute across the board?

I mean they can be raised Jewish, right?

No. Hell, it can be a bitch getting in even if you do have the matrilinial thing, depending on what country you're from. There was an article in the NYT about this recently. They're really locking down on entrance requirements.

Heck, didn't you post it Jesse?

Matrelinial descent, and even then it's tough.

Honestly, now that I have time to mull it, I really think it's a case of affluent Israeli's using influence to keep poor potential immigrants out. If you mess with Right of Return so that the Returnee has to prove it, you're basically only letting in those who have the time and money to do so.

[StoneGold]

I don't especially care about travelling to Israel as much as I care about identity, here. If only the father is Jewish, I mean.

Not how you phrased the original question. Here, it more depends on your synagogue. I would not be surprised if Typo's would say no, just because Orthodox tends to be more strict on those things, although I believe now some are more cool with it. Other branches tend to be more inclusive, because let's face it, it's less dickish. If I end up marrying a non-Jew, and we have a kid, why would I want to be part of a religion that wouldn't accept my unholy spawn as one of them?

[Typo Lad]

I don't especially care about travelling to Israel as much as I care about identity, here. If only the father is Jewish, I mean.
Here in the US?

Non-Jews, Some conservative, and Reform would consider you Jewish. Centrist/Modern/Neo/Name dejur Orthodox and those futher to the right would not.

[jessecuster3]

Here in the US?

Non-Jews, Some conservative, and Reform would consider you Jewish. Centrist/Modern/Neo/Name dejur Orthodox and those futher to the right would not.

That's kind of what I thought. I will still get heat from the parents.

[StoneGold]

I'd have to agree with you on it, honestly. Were they to claim it, I would have the same opinion I have of my sister-in-law's Non-Orthodox Conversion: It's nice that they want the identity and I'd be respectful of that, but I wouldn't count them for a minyan (quorum for prayer) or drink wine they poured.


See, that's a point you and I would differ on. But I don't really care who pours my wine, as long as they pour it.

But seriously, I'm a fan of inclusion. Even better, non-proseletyzing inclusion. It's like the best of both worlds. If you want in, just follow the rules, but I'm not going to try and recruit you. Follow your own path.

[StoneGold]

Here in the US?

Non-Jews, Some conservative, and Reform would consider you Jewish. Centrist/Modern/Neo/Name dejur Orthodox and those futher to the right would not.

Again, I believe some of the more Modern Orthodox are starting to change their tunes on that, but it's a case by case kind of thing.

[Typo Lad]

Not how you phrased the original question. Here, it more depends on your synagogue. I would not be surprised if Typo's would say no, just because Orthodox tends to be more strict on those things, although I believe now some are more cool with it.

Well, that depends on how you want to define Jewish. I mean, no, we're not going to let someone we consider non-Jewish lead services , but we're not going to physically eject them either.

Bear with me for what is going to seem like an insane analogy - Growing up, we had a mentally disturbed Jew who would come to synagogue. We're not talking mildly either... the gentleman should have been in a group home. By definition, he did not "count" for services or anything like that. Still, he wanted to be there. He wanted to participate, even on his limited level.

If someone who isn't totally capable of understanding is welcome, then surely someone who is would be.

Other branches tend to be more inclusive, because let's face it, it's less dickish. If I end up marrying a non-Jew, and we have a kid, why would I want to be part of a religion that wouldn't accept my unholy spawn as one of them?

I think Orthodoxy takes it as a sort of "tit for tat". "What, you couldn't find a nice Jewish girl? That's nice, but don't forget to leave the membership cards for your kids on the way out. You're always welcome back. call us first so we can buy the boiled wine for your wife."

That's kind of what I thought. I will still get heat from the parents.

...

Is this something that really may happen?

Would your parents be placated by a token conversion? I mean, in the eyes of my branch it would be meaningless, but maybe it's enough for the folks?

[jessecuster3]

Is this something that really may happen?

Would your parents be placated by a token conversion? I mean, in the eyes of my branch it would be meaningless, but maybe it's enough for the folks?

Well my girlfriend isn't and we are on the cusp of living together, so yes, I guess?


My dad would be fine with whatever, my sister married a non-Jew but she would be the mother, so its fine, my mom, however, may have issues.

[Typo Lad]

I hear what your're saying StoneGold. Again, I don't think anyone's pitching anybody outside of the synagogue. All are welcome. The trick is the actual level of involvment "allowed". The other trick is imposi9ng those limits wihtout being an utter arse, which some Jews suck at.

[StoneGold]

I think Orthodoxy takes it as a sort of "tit for tat". "What, you couldn't find a nice Jewish girl? That's nice, but don't forget to leave the membership cards for your kids on the