Robin # 169: The Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul Part 5 *SPOILERS*

[Choppa]

I don't the issue in front of me so I'm going off memory.

So part 5 (even though on the first page it says part 4 for some reason, even the cover says part 5). Robin and Damian are fighting off Ra's Ninja soldiers and then Damian runs away to find Batman. Robin and I Ching continue fighting until Robin leaves Ching alone to fend for himself. The ninjas go to grab Talia as Ra's requested and she fights them off and chases after Damian.

Robin starts to wonder if Ra's can really bring back people from the dead and whether he has the right to continue living when he can give them their lives back. He runs into Talia and promises to help her find Damian if she tells him if it's true that people can be resurrected. One nice part is that Talia asks Tim how he knows she is looking for Damian and he says that he had a mother once and she would look the same way Talia did then when she was worried about him.

Anyway, Talia says that yes it appears that people can be ressurected since Ra's obviously has been. Robin goes to find the White Ghost, the person who first offered him the deal, to tell him that he has reconsidered. Meanwhile, Ra's, now in the body of the monk that he grabbed in Part 4, is talking to his entourage about how he needs a new body because his is already disintegrating- his hand is all shriveled up. Batman shows up and the archer guy says that he can make a name for himself by killing Batman. He fires an arrow at him, and Batman ducks out of the way and knocks him out with one punch (big surprise!). Ra's offers his hand in friendship and Batman takes it, but then begins squeezing it really hard until it's in even worse shape.

Back to Robin, he finds the White Ghost and tells him that he will accept the deal and give his life to bring back those he lost- his parents, Stephanie, Conner. I Ching shows up and tells him not to do it. They tussle for a bit and Ching tells him that he sense the conflict in him, but Robin doesn't budge. Ching says he can make his own decisions and that he won't stop him, then a voice from the distance says "I will," and it's revealed to be Nightwing.

Next issue, Nightwing versus Robin...

[agentofthebat]

i cant wait for that!

[Exslade ZX]

I really just...don't like that at all. Tim has always been one of, if not the, most rational of all the Batman family. I could not see him doing something...so, well stupid.

At the same time, I get it, as we know of course that he's been through a lot. (and people have of course even mentioned that one day after losing so much, he just might end up a villian)

But i can't understand him wanting to serve Ra's. I could see him wanting to bring back those he's lost, but I cant see him doing it at the expense of his own life. Just seems out of character for Tim.

[Choppa]

But i can't understand him wanting to serve Ra's. I could see him wanting to bring back those he's lost, but I cant see him doing it at the expense of his own life. Just seems out of character for Tim.

I don't think the deal is that he would serve Ra's, but just give him his body to use and he would be dead, and the others would be brought back from the dead in exchange

[gideon]

I am not sure what's up with Robin. I was loving the darker edge on him, but this issue just seems off. And his comment about "Batman can't feel the pain I've suffered. Mom and Dad. Conner. Stephanie."

Seemed a little strange. I think Bruce can understand the loss of parents. And I am sure he's lost dozens of friends and allies over the years, even if comic book deaths are always messed up and temporary.

[HeckBoy]

Yeah, this issue felt a bit off. I mean I guess you could point to Tim trying to clone Connor as precedence for his current behavior of wanting to resurrect everybody else, but the ends to which he's willing to go this time just doesn't feel right. I thought that after his failed attempts at cloning Connor he finally accepted things and moved on, so what's going on now feels like forced tension. I'm already predicting they'll pull out one of those generic "[insert loved ones' names] wouldn't want you to do this... didn't sacrifice their lives so you could die" speeches where after hearing it, Robin will break down in tears and apologize and at the same time re-galvanize his fighting spirit and swear some sort of misplaced "vengeance" on the main villain for "tricking him."

[Grievous]

Seemed a little strange. I think Bruce can understand the loss of parents. And I am sure he's lost dozens of friends and allies over the years, even if comic book deaths are always messed up and temporary.

That's exactly what I was thinking. And even though Jason came back, I would imagine the pain that Bruce felt before that was worse than anything Tim has known. Loosing friends surely sucks, but (while I don't know from experience) I would imagine loosing a 'son' is about as bad as it gets.

[PunisherFan]

I just can't beleive how stupid Robin was in this issue. He wants to jump into the Lazarus Pit thinking his parents will come back? It just seemed strange to me. THis whole story has been very sub-par in my opinion

[Mia]

Didn't Dixon hint of bringing back a certain character? I hope it's his Dad. I was really disapointed with the killing off of Jack Drake in IC.

[Captain Jim]

Didn't Dixon hint of bringing back a certain character? I hope it's his Dad. I was really disapointed with the killing off of Jack Drake in IC.

I doubt that will happen. DC had wanted to kill Tim's dad for a long time, and Chuck was always the one who refused to let it happen (while he was writing the title). And Meltzer was specifically ordered to kill him off in IC. I can't imagine TPTB would do a complete turnaround and allow him to be brought back now.

[Captain Jim]

Well, I guess I'll give the contrary view on this issue. I *did* think it was in character. I don't think anyone realizes how traumatic it's been for Tim to lose first his mom, then Spoiler, then his dad, then his best friend (Conner) and more recently another close friend (Bart). And no, I don't think Bruce's loss of his parents at a much younger age can come close to comparing with this.

I thought it was very realistic, the way he was chasing Talia around, asking, "Can he really do this?" and then the way he was torn in his mind (as I Ching observed), but had to make a quick decision--one which he viewed as a personal sacrifice for the sake of his loved ones.

[Choppa]

I hope it turns out that Robin is playing Ra's or something. Perhaps he is just trying to find out just how he got resurrected in teh first place.

[agentofthebat]

Well i cant wait to have Nightwing vs Robin! I was so for Tood vs Nightwing but really wasnt that great!

[Mia]

I doubt that will happen. DC had wanted to kill Tim's dad for a long time, and Chuck was always the one who refused to let it happen (while he was writing the title). And Meltzer was specifically ordered to kill him off in IC. I can't imagine TPTB would do a complete turnaround and allow him to be brought back now.

Oh really? Had no idea that was the case. Pity. I liked Jack and I really didn't see why we couldn't have at least one superhero with a parent.

[The Joker]

With the way Jack's death was played out in IC, I was quite happy with the results. And absolutely loved the bit about both characters both being orphans now. That was gold. I liked Jack alright, but I also believe he recieved one of the more memorable, and satisfying deaths in the DCU. I really have no desire to see him brought back.

As far as Tim goes, even if it does seem a bit off, I can buy his reasoning for joining up with Ra's. As it's quite clear his emotions are getting the best of him. Even Batman considered putting Jason Todd in the Lazarus Pit shortly after his death, but thought better of it due to it's consequences. Tim's definately has had a rough time as of late (death of his father, his best friend, Bart as well), and I can, atleast for arguments sake, buy that he's clearly running on emotions and not rational thought due to the idea that those he held dear could have some chance at all of being brought back. And since people in the DCU have come back from the dead, it's not an entirely ludicrous concept.

[Choppa]

It's clearly just a stupid plot device used to get Nightwing and Robin to fight. This whole story is turning into HUSH by becoming more about gimmicks than a story.

[Captain Jim]

It's clearly just a stupid plot device used to get Nightwing and Robin to fight. This whole story is turning into HUSH by becoming more about gimmicks than a story.

Actually, I've been quite pleased with how this arc has fit together. In some of the previous cross-title events, either the story could have fit equally well in anyone's book, not really focusing on the title character (example: Officer Down), or some of the pieces of the crossover didn't seem to be that tightly connected to the overall story (example: War Games). I think the way this story was constructed was well thought out. The stories in Robin and Nightwing actually center on those characters, yet still move the overall story ahead. I've been pleasantly surprised.

(On the other hand, I've been a bit disappointed by the art, other than on the Batman title.)

[Captain Jim]

Oh really? Had no idea that was the case. Pity. I liked Jack and I really didn't see why we couldn't have at least one superhero with a parent.

Yeah, Chuck used to say that DC wanted to get rid of Jack because his presence made it difficult for Tim to function as Robin. Chuck said his response was, he wanted to keep Jack, because his presence made it difficult for Tim to function as Robin.

[djdaredevil]

Actually, I've been quite pleased with how this arc has fit together. In some of the previous cross-title events, either the story could have fit equally well in anyone's book, not really focusing on the title character (example: Officer Down), or some of the pieces of the crossover didn't seem to be that tightly connected to the overall story (example: War Games). I think the way this story was constructed was well thought out. The stories in Robin and Nightwing actually center on those characters, yet still move the overall story ahead. I've been pleasantly surprised.

(On the other hand, I've been a bit disappointed by the art, other than on the Batman title.)

I just got to this latest installation of the Ra's al Ghul crossover and have to admit I was a bit dissapointed. A few points..

- the pacing between titles has been decent, although certainly the story line has overwhelmed any other stories going on in those titles. This type of crossover is also how Messiah Complex is done (in MC i'd say they did a better job of each book feeling likes its original though, with plots a bit more focussed on the books teams.). Either way, both crossovers dominate all the books and suspended all other plotlines.

- is this really issue 5 of 7? I don't feel like a lot has really happened in this crossover beyond some cool pair ups. (robin/damien/nw.. robin vs. nw etc.)

- Robin obsessed with the resurection of his parents felt false. It would have played much better if he kept referencing Conner, since we have seen him try to bring him back a lot ... he couldn't clone Conner, but we never saw him try to clone his dad or anything.

- Finally .. Page 14, the new Ra's see's the detective at the tree ... Who is that man in those baggy overalls?? the dullest looking batman in a while ... and he is supposed to be 'rejuvinated'? looks like he just got off the bottle.

[Captain Jim]

certainly the story line has overwhelmed any other stories going on in those titles... both crossovers dominate all the books and suspended all other plotlines.

I would always expect that to be the case, but in this instance, there *are* no other plotlines in at the moment. In Robin (and Nightwing as well), the previous creators have finished what they were doing and moved on to other projects. New creators begin new storylines in January.

[Speed]

Robin is in a fight he cannot win.
When will The Boy Wonder learn to not get too deep?
Never.
He is Batman's protege afterall.

[Mojorisin]

This story just seems contrived to me. It feels forced. The resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul. Isn't that what he does...resurrect? And I've felt Tim's been out of chatacter the entire arc. I dunno...everything about this crossover feels wrong.