OMD: Let's whine about it! - MEGATHREAD!

[Sean Whitmore]

Well, we knew it had to happen. It was great fun for a little while to see five OMD-related threads spring up every day, but not unlike the Simpsons, it just stopped being funny after awhile.

So here it is. Your one-stop shopping for comments that run the gamut from "Wah, they're breaking up the marriage!" to "Wah, you're not supporting the books!" to "Wah, stop whining about me whining!" to "Wah, no, I'm gonna keep whining about you whining!"

Have at it, gladiators. You who are about to die, salute me.


SEAN

[Shade 20x6]

If this is true (and I believe it is, as it makes complete sense with the way the story is going), then I stick to my statement 100% that I am out with the conclusion of OMD.

http://www.comicboards.com/smb/view.php?trd=071102132956

By Iceymon:

Last chance to back off.

Here is the low down.

It's pretty much what we all suspected. The marriage will be erased from history due to a deal that is offered to Peter. He has to undone some points in history that led to the unmasking in order to save Aunt May. While he is pondering the ethics of the choice made to him, MJ secretly makes the deal for him. Because she was instrumental in his choice to unmask, she chooses to go back and never reveal she knew he was Spider-Man. This undoes the marriage. As a "gift" due to her bold choice, she is granted powers and becomes Jackpot. She is warned that if she reveals the past to Peter, who has no memory of it, then it will create a timeline shockwave. As a result, Peter is back to status quo, single and with a secret identity. Aunt May doesn't know who is either.

Sorry marriage fans.

Horrible. Just horrible. :mad: :evilangry

[zhivago]

I really hope this is not true. If it is, I am done with Spider-Man

[Crimson]

Got to admit... the MJ twist would be interesting. It never occured to me MJ could be the one to make the choice.

We all know it's coming, we just expected Peter to do it.

[CMBMOOL]

IF this is true, then I"m sorry Marvel.

No more 616 Spider-man for me, until Peter and MJ are married again. :(

Hello, Ultimate Spidey and Spider-girl, AKA the REAL Peter and MJ livestyle as Teenagers and as a married family. :D

[cap5]

I am a huge Spidy fan and i thought the unmasking had some great stores it brought flash,betty and liz back in the comics fold but the recon to erase the unmasking ,giving MJ powers and bring Spidy to Square 1 being single and brand New its like the whole spidy stores to this point wont hapen
Im still going to buy Amazing 3x a month I wonder if this means peter will remember the job he had with jjj but i am defenly selling my Spider-man books and a lot of my comics its kind've ironic because im trying to start fresh and it looks like so is spidy

[Thursaiz]

The fact that MJ knows what is real could lead to some very interesting future plots. I can't see this lasting more than a year.

It would be a great storyline, depending on Jackpot's powers, to have certain heroes racing to stop her from revealing the truth to Peter, who I'm sure would want certain elements of that option life that he had.

[Fatguy]

I think what I've always thought: It would be a lame idea to do this.

But, thats it. It would be a stupid story (and there have been a lot of those through the years). I would still read afterwards, if the stories are good. I read Spider-Man because I love Spider-Man, not because I love married Peter Parker.

I think the marriage is great, and I like the couple. But its out of my hands. I love my Brother's wife, and hope they stay together forever because they make a REALLY good couple. But if they end up getting divorced, or if my brother decides for some dumb reason to leave her for another woman, I wouldnt stop seeing my brother.

[CMBMOOL]

I think what I've always thought: It would be a lame idea to do this.

But, thats it. It would be a stupid story (and there have been a lot of those through the years). I would still read afterwards, if the stories are good. I read Spider-Man because I love Spider-Man, not because I love married Peter Parker.

I think the marriage is great, and I like the couple. But its out of my hands. I love my Brother's wife, and hope they stay together forever because they make a REALLY good couple. But if they end up getting divorced, or if my brother decides for some dumb reason to leave her for another woman, I wouldnt stop seeing my brother.

I have to agree with your statements on reading Spidey, just for Spidey, but to me i was brought up during the time when Peter and MJ were married and some things like that just don't go away over time. :(

I be checking in from time to time to see the new BND status quo for Spider-man, but that is it. :(

[Red Lotus]

If this is true (and I believe it is, as it makes complete sense with the way the story is going), then I stick to my statement 100% that I am out with the conclusion of OMD.

http://www.comicboards.com/smb/view.php?trd=071102132956

By Iceymon:

Last chance to back off.

Here is the low down.

It's pretty much what we all suspected. The marriage will be erased from history due to a deal that is offered to Peter. He has to undone some points in history that led to the unmasking in order to save Aunt May. While he is pondering the ethics of the choice made to him, MJ secretly makes the deal for him. Because she was instrumental in his choice to unmask, she chooses to go back and never reveal she knew he was Spider-Man. This undoes the marriage. As a "gift" due to her bold choice, she is granted powers and becomes Jackpot. She is warned that if she reveals the past to Peter, who has no memory of it, then it will create a timeline shockwave. As a result, Peter is back to status quo, single and with a secret identity. Aunt May doesn't know who is either.

Sorry marriage fans.

Horrible. Just horrible. :mad: :evilangry

I give you what will cause marvel to have their first Crisis.

Because if this happens I'm not even sure if the Spider-man in ASM will even be in the 616.

[It Is Inevitable]

Uh-Oh Spaghetti O's!
What about Norman Osborn?
Does he even remember?
What's Spidey's situation on the Initative's Most Wanted List?
Does This Mean Harry Osborn Is Still Alive?
Kraven?
Ben Reilly?


Well whatever happens, Norman Osborn is going to end up retroactively responsible for it.

[Superbeast]

I'm really amazed he didn't bother to contact Angel, Elixir or Dr Strange who can heal people without anyone's soul or happiness compromised.

I was informed of the end of the story even before it had finished being drawn and I can't help but think it's bloody stupid. Then again, I guess they needed some way to get rid of the whole revealing his identity thing from Civil War.

[Maestro]

It's like the Marvel version of a Retcon Punch, lol

[cap5]

you know this is the most stuped thing that marvel did they alyays mess with spidy

[Will.S]

If this is true I really, REALLY hate the retcon itself since it's such a cheap device to get everything back nice and neat like it was before Peter and MJ were married but it looks like it'll be a neccessary evil to get these all new stories and to have Peter Parker free again. Although it is interesting to have a reversal of MJ knowing all about them but Peter being in the dark about the whole thing. Plus it makes the Jackpot identity a great deal more interesting since it looks like she'll be pining for him.

Again, this sucks hard and feels like a lame way to do it but at the same time I can see why.

[Ramiel]

I'm really amazed he didn't bother to contact Angel, Elixir or Dr Strange who can heal people without anyone's soul or happiness compromised.

He did go to Dr Strange and he couldn't help him. Now Elixir, that is a different story.

[Cody H]

He did go to Dr Strange and he couldn't help him. Now Elixir, that is a different story.He may have been hampered by the fact that, like myself, he has no idea who Elixer is.

Does he?

[Ramiel]

He may have been hampered by the fact that, like myself, he has no idea who Elixer is.

Does he?

That is a possibility, but you'd think that someone else would point him in that direction.

And Elixir is a mutant who heals(or reverses it to hurt), though I'm not sure to what extent. Seems like a logical choice to at least ask, but I guess he's too underground for anyone to know/care who he is.

[Mister Mets]

This is something that's been speculated for a while, so there's no reason to assume that this guy got it right. He could just be releasing his own speculation as if they were facts.

Hell, he even confirms that he's a first-time poster, so he doesn't have anything to lose if he turns out to be wrong.
http://www.comicboards.com/smb/view.php?rpl=071102222220

I'd trust him more if he was a known presence on the internet AND offered anything more specific (IE_ Who offered Peter the deal?)

If that is how it ends, I don't see why it's automatically a bad story. I think Mary Jane would choose Aunt May's life over her own happiness.

And if it's a bad story, I honestly think it's worth it to get Peter Parker single again.

Though I'd honestly prefer they retcon Mary Jane learning Spider-Man's identity, as that way some older comics would make more sense.

* Mods- Should this get merged into "Our greatest fears now prove to be true?"

[Magneto Rocks]

Hmm, good. I know I'm in a tiny minority but I actually like that a lot better than Peter himself making the deal. It means that though the marriage ends, MJ goes "out" with a fantastic character moment.

It's also one of the sanest ways I can see of making her Jackpot.

[Chiasm]

If that is true then that is an awesome twist.

I just don't get all the marriage angst fans that are threatening to quit. Having MJ be the one to make the reset choice is brilliant. I'm not so sure about the whole becoming Jackpot bit but the rest is great.

[Alan2099]

Intresting idea. I wouldn't have thought of having MJ be the one tjhat makes the choice. That actually gives her quite a bit to do. Also, it's not completley erasing things, with her remembering it. Plus it really adds somthing for MJ's character (not counting the super powered stuff, which I doubt will last.)

If nothing else, the idea that MJ always knew Peter was Spidey is a retcon worth getting rid of.

[CMBMOOL]

Okay I admit that this is just the ending that I was think of, but I was also hoping that it wasn't true. :(

I'm quiting AMS because this "recon" will set back 20 years of marriage, and I'm quite proud to know that I was born on the year that MJ and Peter were married. :D

Yeah, I'm a weird to think of that, but that is what I feel. ;)

[Magneto Rocks]

I'm quiting AMS because this "recon" will set back 20 years of marriage, and I'm quite proud to know that I was born on the year that MJ and Peter were married. :D

Set back 20 years of marriage... or restore 20 years of being single? ;)

[HeckBoy]

I grew up learning about Spider-Man thru the 90s cartoon so a great deal of my conception of him was as a bachelor and not being married. However, I'm still not liking the spoiler, at least not the part about Jackpot's "origin."

[Superbelt]

Well, it looks like this would be an escape from the upcoming changes too.
When Marvel realizes the mistake they made, or they fire Quesada, they can have MJ reveal her identity, then we get the 'timeline shockwave', that changes some things (like May dying perhaps) and things are relatively back to normal.

I'm still dropping the books, but looks like that's their out.

[Will.S]

I'm quiting AMS because this "recon" will set back 20 years of marriage, and I'm quite proud to know that I was born on the year that MJ and Peter were married. :D
I guess that with having MJ retaining the knowledge it's not set back fully so there's a bit of a middle ground there.

[Maestro]

He may have been hampered by the fact that, like myself, he has no idea who Elixer is.

Does he?

Spider-Man was willing to "do anything and go anywhere". He even went to Dr. Doom for help. It's ridiculous to think he didn't go to Xavier's

[Joe Acro]

Spider-Man was willing to "do anything and go anywhere". He even went to Dr. Doom for help. It's ridiculous to think he didn't go to Xavier'sHe did go to Xavier's. In that sequence where the he used the hands to go across space, I know he talked to Cyclops and I think he talked to Beast as well.

[Superbeast]

He did go to Xavier's. In that sequence where the he used the hands to go across space, I know he talked to Cyclops and I think he talked to Beast as well.

Neither thought to mention Elixir or give him Warren Worthington's cell number? Spiderman knows Warren fairly well going back to the classic X-Men team, it's not like they don't know each other and one another's identities.

Doctor Strange can heal himself after he's impaled with a sword and has a gaping wound but can't pull a bullet out of Aunt May? Doctor Strange, sorceror supreme who can't do even basic healing spells. :rolleyes:

[PunisherFan]

this is stupid, all this for an 80 year old hag? How much more time would she honestly have left? I'd rather have Peter with MJ than Peter and annoying ass May. So he not only retcons the marriage but sex w/a super model on a regular basis? Is Northstar part of ASM in Brand New Day b/c that brings up some questions I got as well

[Alan2099]

this is stupid, all this for an 80 year old hag? How much more time would she honestly have left? I'd rather have Peter with MJ than Peter and annoying ass May. So he not only retcons the marriage but sex w/a super model on a regular basis? Is Northstar part of ASM in Brand New Day b/c that brings up some questions I got as well

It's the super model that's doing the retconning.

[CMBMOOL]

I grew up learning about Spider-Man thru the 90s cartoon so a great deal of my conception of him was as a bachelor and not being married.

Actually I think that was the first time that I ever saw Spider-man through the 90 series. :D

[CMBMOOL]

I guess that with having MJ retaining the knowledge it's not set back fully so there's a bit of a middle ground there.

Well maybe as long as it means that MJ and Peter could possibily get married all over again. :D

[DaeJi]

Honestly, spliting up Peter and MJ won't last. Three blockbuster movies and the appearance of MJ as Spidey's one true love in every other none-616 Spider-Man book and cartoons and video games have cemented them as a couple. At most, this will make for some interesting stories, ones that will probably be liked a lot more once Marvel goes back to the marriage status quo.

That said, if this is true, no Marvel fan can ever make fun of the Superboy retcon punch again. Ever. And to all the fans of single Peter... go read something else. Spidey is married in the 616 universe, and in Spider-Girl. He's single everywhere else.

[Superbeast]

this is stupid, all this for an 80 year old hag? How much more time would she honestly have left? I'd rather have Peter with MJ than Peter and annoying ass May. So he not only retcons the marriage but sex w/a super model on a regular basis? Is Northstar part of ASM in Brand New Day b/c that brings up some questions I got as well

Dude, don't even go there. I agree completely but obviously Peter has some weird displaced Oedipal complex. Considering May's been dead twice and is living on borrowed time anyway, you'd think letting her go, accepting her loss and screwing over Mephisto would be conventional wisdom...

BUT NO! MARY JANE VALUES THE LIFE OF AN O.A.P. WHO SHOULD ALREADY BE DEAD OVER HER OWN MARRIAGE AND PERSONAL HAPPINESS BECAUSE NOW SHE'LL HAVE SUPER POWERS FROM A DEMON WHO DEFINITELY WON'T EVENTUALLY USE HER AS A PAWN WHEN HE CALLS IN THAT FAVOR...

I'd actually would have preferred if Mary Jane died and her soul passing saved Aunt May's rather than this goddamn joke of a resolution. In the end Mephisto looks weak for showing respect and actually rewarding someone for their sacrifice, MJ looks weak for making an idiot decision, Parker looks weak for not even deciding his own fate, May looks weak because she won't die or stay dead so Peter Parker can grow up... oh wait, he's not supposed to, he's meant to be a troubled single man flirting all day but scared to commit because of his secret identity... I know Joe Q prefers the idea of single swinning Spidey, but there were decades of those stories, let the goddamn character grow, don't cut it away at the roots because the flowers have bloomed in a way you don't like.

Aunt May should have died and stayed dead after ASM 400. Everything since has just made the character a goddamn prop and literary device because Peter can't dare to stand on his own as a man without his Aunt making cookies for him and being an annoying pain in his ass. Peter is going to end up 50, single and emotionally despondent at this rate by making him a goddamn emotionally dependent lapdog at this point in his life.

[Celgress]

I think it sucks on every possible level, and is indicative of poor writing and an over all lack of creatively.

Basically this magical recton is the lazy man's way out. Mark my words future generations of readers will curse Joe Q’s run, as many of us curse the clone saga arch today. When will Marvel learn than we don’t want rewrites of historical events that displease various writers, rather we want the over all plot to move forward in a logical way by creating new and exciting story lines within a logically progressive frame work. If Joe Q, and others, are not capable of delivering this than the company should find some one else who can.

[PunisherFan]

Honestly, spliting up Peter and MJ won't last. Three blockbuster movies and the appearance of MJ as Spidey's one true love in every other none-616 Spider-Man book and cartoons and video games have cemented them as a couple. At most, this will make for some interesting stories, ones that will probably be liked a lot more once Marvel goes back to the marriage status quo.

That said, if this is true, no Marvel fan can ever make fun of the Superboy retcon punch again. Ever. And to all the fans of single Peter... go read something else. Spidey is married in the 616 universe, and in Spider-Girl. He's single everywhere else.

Yeah really, JQ is such a hypocrite. He rips DC every chance he gets about the punch but look at what he's going to do. Not only that but we should already be in Brand New Day by now instead of delay after delay for OMD. The more I think about ti the more I want to drop this book like a bad habit... but it is Spider-Man. If this were done to someone like Sleepwalker or Quasar then there books would be cancelled.... oh those books have BEEN cancelled? ooops. Point is they can only get away w/this b/c it's Spider-Man, the charavter sells the book, not the marriage or Peter being single. Was anyone so avidly against May dieing in ASM#400 that she had to be brought back? No so wwe shouldn't even be in this stupid position anyway.

[Noronha]

I sure hope JoeQ has a reaaallly nice backdoor,because he is going to need it.

By the way JoeQ no way in HELL you can diss Clone Saga from now on,to you,that was the freaking story of the century!!

[Celgress]

Yeah really, JQ is such a hypocrite. He rips DC every chance he gets about the punch but look at what he's going to do. Not only that but we should already be in Brand New Day by now instead of delay after delay for OMD. The more I think about ti the more I want to drop this book like a bad habit... but it is Spider-Man. If this were done to someone like Sleepwalker or Quasar then there books would be cancelled.... oh those books have BEEN cancelled? ooops. Point is they can only get away w/this b/c it's Spider-Man, the charavter sells the book, not the marriage or Peter being single. Was anyone so avidly against May dieing in ASM#400 that she had to be brought back? No so wwe shouldn't even be in this stupid position anyway.

Exactly, ASM #400 was a great issue until it was retconed.

[Celgress]

At this rate it'll become a running joke, or the future answer to a trivia question:

Name the comic series with the greatest number of retcons; Spider-Man.

[Mister Mets]

If this is true (and I believe it is, as it makes complete sense with the way the story is going), then I stick to my statement 100% that I am out with the conclusion of OMD.

http://www.comicboards.com/smb/view.php?trd=071102132956

By Iceymon:

Last chance to back off.

Here is the low down.

It's pretty much what we all suspected. The marriage will be erased from history due to a deal that is offered to Peter. He has to undone some points in history that led to the unmasking in order to save Aunt May. While he is pondering the ethics of the choice made to him, MJ secretly makes the deal for him. Because she was instrumental in his choice to unmask, she chooses to go back and never reveal she knew he was Spider-Man. This undoes the marriage. As a "gift" due to her bold choice, she is granted powers and becomes Jackpot. She is warned that if she reveals the past to Peter, who has no memory of it, then it will create a timeline shockwave. As a result, Peter is back to status quo, single and with a secret identity. Aunt May doesn't know who is either.

Sorry marriage fans.

Horrible. Just horrible. :mad: :evilangry
Dan Slott & Steve Mcniven on three issues of Amazing Spider-Man is going to do nothing to change your mind? :confused:

I think what I've always thought: It would be a lame idea to do this.

But, thats it. It would be a stupid story (and there have been a lot of those through the years). I would still read afterwards, if the stories are good. I read Spider-Man because I love Spider-Man, not because I love married Peter Parker.

I think the marriage is great, and I like the couple. But its out of my hands. I love my Brother's wife, and hope they stay together forever because they make a REALLY good couple. But if they end up getting divorced, or if my brother decides for some dumb reason to leave her for another woman, I wouldnt stop seeing my brother.
I think the big difference between a fictional marriage and a real-life marriage is that fiction is more interesting with conflict, whereas you'd prefer to avoid that. I'm assuming you want your brother and his wife to have as few problems as possible, but that wouldn't work out in a continuing serial.

I give you what will cause marvel to have their first Crisis.

Because if this happens I'm not even sure if the Spider-man in ASM will even be in the 616.
Marvel's had similar situations before. The introduction of the Sentry, "No More Mutants" and Space Phantom erasing the world's knowledge of Captain America's identity all come to mind.

[BeastieRunner]

I don't know if I'm feeling better about that theory or in denial that they're going to end it. :confused:

I feel numb.

[Mister Mets]

Intresting idea. I wouldn't have thought of having MJ be the one tjhat makes the choice. That actually gives her quite a bit to do. Also, it's not completley erasing things, with her remembering it. Plus it really adds somthing for MJ's character (not counting the super powered stuff, which I doubt will last.)

If nothing else, the idea that MJ always knew Peter was Spidey is a retcon worth getting rid of.
It still keeps that retcon.
But I am okay with the decision, and it seems in character for MJ. Hell, in Sensational Spider-Man, she was sorry May got shot instead of her, so I could see her making this sacrifice.

That is a possibility, but you'd think that someone else would point him in that direction.

And Elixir is a mutant who heals(or reverses it to hurt), though I'm not sure to what extent. Seems like a logical choice to at least ask, but I guess he's too underground for anyone to know/care who he is.
That's just one of the types of things you've gotta ignore to enjoy the comics, as it would otherwise lessen the drama way too much, if there's a healer in the X-Men books who could solve all of Daredevil's problems.

Set back 20 years of marriage... or restore 20 years of being single? ;)
Restore 25 years of being single (and you're forgetting the time Ben Reilly was Spider-Man or the three years between Amazing Spider-Man Volume 2 #13 and 50.)

[Mister Mets]

I sure hope JoeQ has a reaaallly nice backdoor,because he is going to need it.

By the way JoeQ no way in HELL you can diss Clone Saga from now on,to you,that was the freaking story of the century!!
The nice thing about the magic retcon is that a back door is so easy to find, if it's a failure. Hell, I can think of several solutions (though I hope Marvel doesn't have to use them.)

Honestly, spliting up Peter and MJ won't last. Three blockbuster movies and the appearance of MJ as Spidey's one true love in every other none-616 Spider-Man book and cartoons and video games have cemented them as a couple. At most, this will make for some interesting stories, ones that will probably be liked a lot more once Marvel goes back to the marriage status quo.

That said, if this is true, no Marvel fan can ever make fun of the Superboy retcon punch again. Ever. And to all the fans of single Peter... go read something else. Spidey is married in the 616 universe, and in Spider-Girl. He's single everywhere else.
The problem with the Superboy retcon punch was that a Batman character was resurrected due to something that happened in Crisis of Infinite Earths. There are a few differences between that, and something JMS has been setting up for years in Spider-Man.

this is stupid, all this for an 80 year old hag? How much more time would she honestly have left? I'd rather have Peter with MJ than Peter and annoying ass May. So he not only retcons the marriage but sex w/a super model on a regular basis? Is Northstar part of ASM in Brand New Day b/c that brings up some questions I got as well
This post is proof that it's not the anti-marriage crowd who wants to live vicariously through Spider-Man.

[DaeJi]

This post is proof that it's not the anti-marriage crowd who wants to live vicariously through Spider-Man.

To me it seems like the anti-marriage crowd wants to live in the past. The marriage works for Spider-Man on a number of levels, and retconing it out of existance in a move that makes the Superboy retcon punch look like a stroke of editoral genius is a fairly bad move. But like I said, I doubt it will last.

The problem with the Superboy retcon punch was that a Batman character was resurrected due to something that happened in Crisis of Infinite Earths. There are a few differences between that, and something JMS has been setting up for years in Spider-Man.


Just because JMS has been setting this up doesn't make it any good. Sometimes it's best to abandon plans, even plans that you have been working on for a while.

[Alan2099]

It seems to me that the promarriage crowd wants to move Spider-man out of what made him popular and intresting in the first place, placing more emthasis on what happens when a hero starts getting older than what makes a good Spider-man story.

[Ramiel]

That's just one of the types of things you've gotta ignore to enjoy the comics, as it would otherwise lessen the drama way too much, if there's a healer in the X-Men books who could solve all of Daredevil's problems.

Yeah, I get that, but it's hard not to at least point this stuff out sometimes, especially when we're talking a simply gunshot wound(well simple for comics anyway).

[DaeJi]

It seems to me that the promarriage crowd wants to move Spider-man out of what made him popular and intresting in the first place, placing more emthasis on what happens when a hero starts getting older than what makes a good Spider-man story.

What made him popular was that he was a hard-luck hero who's personal life suffered because of his superhero life. Him being married doesn't change that. At all. Like it or not, he grew up and things had changed for him. From what I've seen what the pro-marriage side wants is for the Spider-Man story to continue to progress, to not relive the past at the expense of the present.

[Cody H]

It seems to me that the promarriage crowd wants to move Spider-man out of what made him popular and intresting in the first place, placing more emthasis on what happens when a hero starts getting older than what makes a good Spider-man story.Though most people tend to agree on what has made Spider-Man "popular and interesting in the first place," it's important to note that what makes him popular and interesting for any one person may be different. I think the pro-marriage crowd is more concerned with the fact that the last 20 years of Spidey stories may essentially be erased from existence. I think this is very similar to how people felt when Ben was revealed as the original Peter Parker. That is, the Peter Parker they'd been reading about from 20 years (give or take a few years) wasn't really Peter Parker.

Speaking only for myself here, I think telling stories about a married, and apparently older, Spidey doesn't necessarily mean you can't tell a good Spider-Man story. There have been a number of excellent Spider-Man stories since he's been married.

[Superbeast]

It seems to me that the promarriage crowd wants to move Spider-man out of what made him popular and intresting in the first place, placing more emthasis on what happens when a hero starts getting older than what makes a good Spider-man story.

A good story can be a good story on it's own merits without the need to restore a character to it's point of origin just to do so. That's what the Ultimate line is for. I enjoyed Kraven's Last Hunt but now that won't even exist because JOE QUESADA CAN'T LET HEROES GROW UP WITHOUT KILLING THEM OFF. "Oh my God, a character older than our fanbase, kill it or retcon it before people appreciate their legacy!"

Also, since WHEN has Mephisto rewarded ANYONE FOR ANYTHING EVER? This guy is a facsimile of Satan, I don't think he's going to hand out super powers because he appreciates someone's moxy. Maybe putting them on one of the lesser levels of his demonic dimension so they are only tortured 12 hours a day instead of 24, but actually handing out powers? Pull the other one, it's got bells on it.

[Omega Alpha]

It seems to me that the promarriage crowd wants to move Spider-man out of what made him popular and intresting in the first place, placing more emthasis on what happens when a hero starts getting older than what makes a good Spider-man story.

No offense, but you know well this isn't why we are complaining. If Joe Q decided to divorce Pete & MJ or even have her die, we all would be unhappy, but most would live with it. What Quesada is doing is to get rid of decades of continuity and says the stories we read and the character progression Peter did wouldn't matter, all to have Spider-Man go back to the way he was when Quesada was a kid.

And of course, what DaeJi said.

[rick]

I don't have any problem with this attempt to return Spider-Man to the characters more iconic form.

I hope it works out.

[BeastieRunner]

The marriage isn't really the issue so much. It's called too many shock events and "let's see what we can do to fuck things up" instead of "Hey! Let's actually write a GOOD story." Yet, I still don't want it to go in a lame ass way like this.

[Spiffy]

Got to admit... the MJ twist would be interesting. It never occured to me MJ could be the one to make the choice.
It did to me, and I posted it on the Comicboards forum months ago.

But it doesn't save the REST of that from being crap. MJ isn't empowered by the way that choice is being presented, she's burdened. There's a big difference. Especially with the lame arbitrary "consequence" if she talks. I mean I was alright with the idea of her having to make the hard choice, but not with the lame caveat that it would keep the franchise imprisoned, where it could never go forward again with new character development, into the infinity defined by Joe Q's wettest dreams...

[PunisherFan]

It's not so much that I'm pro-marriage as I am about keeping the stories intact. The whole retcon may fit in the story (Can't wait to see how the hell thats written anyways) but if JQ hates the marriage so much he should have had MJ get shot. She then lives and breaks it off w/Peter saying being w/him is way too risky.

[Ullar]

I can sum this up in 3 words cause im 2 lazy to type a real message.
JOE
QUESADA
SUCKS!

I should have a tshirt of that amde and then wait in line for an auto jsut to flip the bastid off.

Note-I am not refering the the person Joe Q Ive heard he is a nive guy I am referiing to his crptastical ideas.

[PunisherFan]

I can sum this up in 3 words cause im 2 lazy to type a real message.
JOE
QUESADA
SUCKS!

I should have a tshirt of that amde and then wait in line for an auto jsut to flip the bastid off.

Note-I am not refering the the person Joe Q Ive heard he is a nive guy I am referiing to his crptastical ideas.

lol, i want one of those shirts. Then I'd have him sign it and say thanks for ruining spider-man ya bastich

[Nefarius]

It's like the Marvel version of a Retcon Punch, lol

More like a punch in our face.

Damn,i barely read 616 spidey after the Others and Sins Past.If the spoilers are true,i'll stop completely.

Spider-Girl,here i come!!!!

[Crimson]

It did to me, and I posted it on the Comicboards forum months ago.

But it doesn't save the REST of that from being crap. MJ isn't empowered by the way that choice is being presented, she's burdened. There's a big difference. Especially with the lame arbitrary "consequence" if she talks. I mean I was alright with the idea of her having to make the hard choice, but not with the lame caveat that it would keep the franchise imprisoned, where it could never go forward again with new character development, into the infinity defined by Joe Q's wettest dreams...

I'd imagine it's a way of stopping people saying "Why the hell did I pay for all the stories?" because Joe and company can point to MJ and say "Oh no, they really did happen. There is the proof... just no one else can remember.".

Of course the problem is that the marriage won't go away. As MJ will still be here and still remembers, the fans won't let go.

[Noronha]

I'd imagine it's a way of stopping people saying "Why the hell did I pay for all the stories?" because Joe and company can point to MJ and say "Oh no, they really did happen. There is the proof... just no one else can remember.".

Of course the problem is that the marriage won't go away. As MJ will still be here and still remembers, the fans won't let go.


Yeah that´s exactly how JoeQ thinks,but that isn´t going to happen fans aren´t that zombified.
They will leave,if you don´t believe me check Clone Saga,and Mackie Retcon,they were counting on same but guess what?
Most of them left

[Magneto Rocks]

No offense, but you know well this isn't why we are complaining. If Joe Q decided to divorce Pete & MJ or even have her die, we all would be unhappy, but most would live with it. What Quesada is doing is to get rid of decades of continuity and says the stories we read and the character progression Peter did wouldn't matter, all to have Spider-Man go back to the way he was when Quesada was a kid.

And of course, what DaeJi said.

Oh no no no no no no no no NO.

If they killed Mary-Jane off, then the uproar would make this One More Day feedback look like a half dozen posts sounding mildly upset.

[worstblogever]

At least neither MJ or May end up in a refridgerator. There's at least that to be positive about, right?

[Shyft]

I could live with it.

[disco stu]

Sounds like a cool set up for brand new day, ill live with it.

[Alan2099]

I just really hope they ditch the mystic spider-totem stuff when they turn back the clock.

I'm also wondering how this is gouing to effect certain people. Is everything still going to have happened, but nobody remembers it, or did it not happen at all? Either way, it wouldn't suprise me to see a few characters in situations that we didn't expect to see them.

Norman is another good one. For too long he's been played up as a Hannibal lector/Kingpin type of Spidey's rogues. Wonder how he's going to be treated when he doesn't have the secret identity to dangle over Peter's head anymore.

[Celgress]

It seems to me that the promarriage crowd wants to move Spider-man out of what made him popular and intresting in the first place, placing more emthasis on what happens when a hero starts getting older than what makes a good Spider-man story.

True, my point being that the vast majority of those types of stories have already been told. After all Spidey was a single loser for how long exactly, 20 odd years :confused: It would have been far better if the writers had; a) Spidey killed the Kingpin, b) Spidey put Stark in a coma, c) both, or d) worst of all Peter total snaps when he sees a sick broken down Eddie near Aunt May and kills a very ill man by mistake. This way Peter would not only be wanted, but he would have crossed a line that he vowed to himself he'd never cross. This could have lead to interesting interchanges with characters as diverse as Wolverine and the Punisher.

[Alan2099]

True, my point being that the vast majority of those types of stories have already been told. After all Spidey was a single loser for how long exactly, 20 odd years
And he was married since 1987? Those stories have been told too.

This way Peter would not only be wanted, but he would have crossed a line that he vowed to himself he'd never cross.
That's also been told.

But what hasn't been told is where his wife remembers he was married and nobody else does. I don't think MJ has ever had any long stint with superpowers either.

[Shyft]

i also dont see the big deal considering the fact that Spiderman will OBVIOUSLY, at some point in the future, get back with MJ, and may even end up marrying her again. Nothing is ever permanent in comics. so why the big who-ha? For now, Marvel have run dry on married stories. they've been doing them for twenty years. Before that they had been doing 20 years of single stories, and maybe they had run out of ideas then. Its all cyclical.

[ChrisIII]

I seem to recall a similar storyline in THE FLASH. Except it was handled much better, and the character still remain married.

[Pro]

Mark my words future generations of readers will curse Joe Q’s run

What do you mean future generations?

First we have Scarlett Witch going nuts, kills off a couple of avengers to clean their roster. Blam.
Then Wanda makes the entire mutant race disappear. Poof.
Civil War comes up and now it's clear why 16 million mutants had to go. Can't steal an x-related storyline (registration) without removing the mutants from play first.
Now Peter Parker loses M.J. magically. Zap.
And soon skrulls will finish off Joe Q.'s "clean up job".

None of these stories were written for story sake but were purely editorially demanded to "right" the marvel universe with the end result being that the stories themselves are such flimsy coverups for said editorially demanded changes they are boring, ill conceived and poorly executed.

I'm sure Joe Q is a nice guy and he's a good artist but he sucks as chief editor. Getting pretty fed up with marvel comics these days.

[Alan2099]

I seem to recall a similar storyline in THE FLASH. Except it was handled much better, and the character still remain married.

Handled better than a story that hasn't even come out yet? You might be right eventually, but at the moment, you're not.

[Venom]

I really don't know what to believe at the moment with all these "The End Of One More Day" theories popping up. I'll save my judgement for when the final parts come out.

But if the marriage is being undone in a way that erases 20 years of continuity. BIG MISTAKE!!! I like that Peter was single once. Some of his best stories were where he was single, but he's past that he's older, wiser and married. Going back to being single is just going backwards and re-treading old stuff. And if this is all true it's pretty much made JMS's run worthless. I wouldn't be happy at all if I had to erase my mark on such an iconic character.

[Deathstroke]

Leave it to Marvel to take a perfectly stupid storyline and destroy something so good about a character.

Makes me glad I dropped Spider-Man.

Guess this means the only Spider-title worth a damn now thanks to this horrifically stupid editorial decision will be Amazing Spider-Girl.

[Magneto Rocks]

I seem to recall a similar storyline in THE FLASH. Except it was handled much better, and the character still remain married.

Not quite the same. But if the Messenger of God wishes to tell Peter Parker he can erase his secret identity going public, then I'm sure Peter would happily accept.

[Joe Zool]

If true, then:

What about "Civil War" and Iron Man? How will this change? Who does the unmasking instead? Remember, it was IM that "encouraged" Peter to take off the mask. Now if he gets his secret id back, then what happens to that moment and how is Tony's relationship with Peter affected? What about New Avengers? Will this even be addressed there and in other books? Because otherwise, it'll be a cluster-f***.

[CMBMOOL]

i also dont see the big deal considering the fact that Spiderman will OBVIOUSLY, at some point in the future, get back with MJ, and may even end up marrying her again. Nothing is ever permanent in comics. so why the big who-ha? For now, Marvel have run dry on married stories. they've been doing them for twenty years. Before that they had been doing 20 years of single stories, and maybe they had run out of ideas then. Its all cyclical.

So there is some hope for the future of Spider-man, if this occurs when Joe Q. is out of Marvel COmics office. :(

[Will.S]

Honestly, spliting up Peter and MJ won't last. Three blockbuster movies and the appearance of MJ as Spidey's one true love in every other none-616 Spider-Man book and cartoons and video games have cemented them as a couple. At most, this will make for some interesting stories, ones that will probably be liked a lot more once Marvel goes back to the marriage status quo.
Well to be fair at least the movies never married them nor did the cartoons, they were always depicted as a couple but it could waver at any moment. I think with Jackpot this will be retained but they could take it in any number of directions without MJ as well.

[Red Lotus]

Marvel's had similar situations before. The introduction of the Sentry, "No More Mutants" and Space Phantom erasing the world's knowledge of Captain America's identity all come to mind.

Maybe its the same but it doesn't feel like it. Those cases seem to make people forget/remember something or effect the present/future, but they didnt' tell us that years of things that happen didn't happen. This would be changing the past and there has to be some kind of Butterfly Effect to that. Is Harry alive. Is Kraven. Is Norman still the head of Thunderbolts.

[Celgress]

Maybe its the same but it doesn't feel like it. Those cases seem to make people forget/remember something or effect the present/future, but they didnt' tell us that years of things that happen didn't happen. This would be changing the past and there has to be some kind of Butterfly Effect to that. Is Harry alive. Is Kraven. Is Norman still the head of Thunderbolts.

And what about Venom and Carnage, or the Goblins (both green and Hob). Spidey, and his actions, played a key role in all their lives.

[CMBMOOL]

Well to be fair at least the movies never married them nor did the cartoons, they were always depicted as a couple but it could waver at any moment. I think with Jackpot this will be retained but they could take it in any number of directions without MJ as well.


But what about that early 90s Spider-man series which showed the wedding of Peter and MJ? :(

[Will.S]

But what about that early 90s Spider-man series which showed the wedding of Peter and MJ? :(
Jeez, I kind of vaguely recall it now that you mentioned it.

I guess I forgot about that.

[Noronha]

If true, then:

What about "Civil War" and Iron Man? How will this change? Who does the unmasking instead? Remember, it was IM that "encouraged" Peter to take off the mask. Now if he gets his secret id back, then what happens to that moment and how is Tony's relationship with Peter affected? What about New Avengers? Will this even be addressed there and in other books? Because otherwise, it'll be a cluster-f***.


It won´t be addressed,it´s typical of JoeQ to just do what he wants and ignore the consequences.

HOUSE OF M,The Other(although PAD did try to give us something)

[Noronha]

But what about that early 90s Spider-man series which showed the wedding of Peter and MJ? :(


Yeah i actually enjoied Conway(Spectacular/Web)/Micheline/Macfarlane(Amazing Spider Man) run right after they got married,not the greatest but very very solid stuff,and it is disrespectful and just ridiculous to destroy those stories.

Because that´s exactly what this retcon will do destroy everything from the past 20 years.
And don´t give me some crappy argument that since i know they happened they still matter,yeah right.

[Mister Mets]

I just really hope they ditch the mystic spider-totem stuff when they turn back the clock.

I'm also wondering how this is gouing to effect certain people. Is everything still going to have happened, but nobody remembers it, or did it not happen at all? Either way, it wouldn't suprise me to see a few characters in situations that we didn't expect to see them.

Norman is another good one. For too long he's been played up as a Hannibal lector/Kingpin type of Spidey's rogues. Wonder how he's going to be treated when he doesn't have the secret identity to dangle over Peter's head anymore.
There's no need to ditch the spider-totem stuff with a retcon, as there's no need for future writers to reference it, unless they have a good related idea.

I'd imagine it's a way of stopping people saying "Why the hell did I pay for all the stories?" because Joe and company can point to MJ and say "Oh no, they really did happen. There is the proof... just no one else can remember.".

Of course the problem is that the marriage won't go away. As MJ will still be here and still remembers, the fans won't let go.
The writers will have to continue ignoring the fans, which they've done a good job of. Otherwise, we'd have had a story where Spider-Man found his long-lost baby, and the Aunt May who turned out to be alive was revealed as a Skrull.

More like a punch in our face.

Damn,i barely read 616 spidey after the Others and Sins Past.If the spoilers are true,i'll stop completely.

Spider-Girl,here i come!!!!
As you're barely reading the books now, it won't be a loss to Marvel.

It might be a gain if it convinces you to pick up Spider-Girl.

[Noronha]

By the way since Peter proposed to MJ in Amazing Spider-Man 290,i think that the 1st issue of BND should be Amazing Spider-Man 290.
Because of OMD he never proposed to her so that issue is ignored as well

Makes much more sense and i bet JoeQ would love it,it would give him a even bigger sensation as if he really was back in the 80´s

[Mister Mets]

I seem to recall a similar storyline in THE FLASH. Except it was handled much better, and the character still remain married.
As the last two parts haven't come out yet, it's premature to say that The Flash did the storyline better, although this type of reality-warp was common before that storyline.

i also dont see the big deal considering the fact that Spiderman will OBVIOUSLY, at some point in the future, get back with MJ, and may even end up marrying her again. Nothing is ever permanent in comics. so why the big who-ha? For now, Marvel have run dry on married stories. they've been doing them for twenty years. Before that they had been doing 20 years of single stories, and maybe they had run out of ideas then. Its all cyclical.
Marvel never ran out of ideas with the single Spider-Man. Stan Lee did, and chose to marry off Peter and Mary Jane in the comic strip. When Jim Shooter got word of this, he rather quickly changed the comics so the Peter and Mary Jane of the Spider-Man comics would get married at the same time.

What do you mean future generations?

First we have Scarlett Witch going nuts, kills off a couple of avengers to clean their roster. Blam.
Then Wanda makes the entire mutant race disappear. Poof.
Civil War comes up and now it's clear why 16 million mutants had to go. Can't steal an x-related storyline (registration) without removing the mutants from play first.
Now Peter Parker loses M.J. magically. Zap.
And soon skrulls will finish off Joe Q.'s "clean up job".

None of these stories were written for story sake but were purely editorially demanded to "right" the marvel universe with the end result being that the stories themselves are such flimsy coverups for said editorially demanded changes they are boring, ill conceived and poorly executed.

I'm sure Joe Q is a nice guy and he's a good artist but he sucks as chief editor. Getting pretty fed up with marvel comics these days.
Whether or not Marvel has future generations of readers has little to do with whether the current generation is satisfied with Joe Quesada. Although if there is a future generation of Marvel readers, much of the credit should go to Joe Quesada.

Those boring, ill conceived and poorly executed stories are getting a lot of good media attention and selling damn well.

[Noronha]

Whether or not Marvel has future generations of readers has little to do with whether the current generation is satisfied with Joe Quesada. Although if there is a future generation of Marvel readers, much of the credit should go to Joe Quesada.

Those boring, ill conceived and poorly executed stories are getting a lot of good media attention and selling damn well.

Yeah but they still are "ill conceived and poorly executed stories"

And how difficult is to attract media attention when your main stories are

-Death of Captain America

-Spider-Man unmasking
Which by the way the 2 are likely to be retconed

I mean even Bob Harras or Mackie could do that

[Mister Mets]

Maybe its the same but it doesn't feel like it. Those cases seem to make people forget/remember something or effect the present/future, but they didnt' tell us that years of things that happen didn't happen. This would be changing the past and there has to be some kind of Butterfly Effect to that. Is Harry alive. Is Kraven. Is Norman still the head of Thunderbolts.
Its really easy for Marvel to establish whether Harry or Kraven are still dead, whether Mac Gargan or Eddie Brock is Venom, or whether Norman's head of the Thunderbolts. There would be no need to establish how those storylines were different now that Peter & Mary Jane were never married. For the first year or so of "Brand New Day" there will just have to be less specific references to past stories, which may be why the first six months will feature all new villains.

If true, then:

What about "Civil War" and Iron Man? How will this change? Who does the unmasking instead? Remember, it was IM that "encouraged" Peter to take off the mask. Now if he gets his secret id back, then what happens to that moment and how is Tony's relationship with Peter affected? What about New Avengers? Will this even be addressed there and in other books? Because otherwise, it'll be a cluster-f***.
I'm willing to bet that Spider-Man only unmasked because Marvel knew a retcon was coming, so I'm sure they have an out.

The best solution I can come up with is that history was retconned so Iron Man and the public believed Spider-Man to be someone else. I wouldn't be surprised if the first Brand New Day issue of Amazing Spider-Man, has Steve Mcniven redraw his famous panel from Civil War #2, with an unmasked Spider-Man saying "My name is Irving Forbush, and I've been Spider-Man since I was fifteen years old."

[Mister Mets]

By the way since Peter proposed to MJ in Amazing Spider-Man 290,i think that the 1st issue of BND should be Amazing Spider-Man 290.
Because of OMD he never proposed to her so that issue is ignored as well

Makes much more sense and i bet JoeQ would love it,it would give him a even bigger sensation as if he really was back in the 80´s
It's likely someone will remember the events from Amazing Spider-Man 290-445 (although I think the retcon will erase more storylines, as it'll likely undo Mary Jane telling Peter she knows his identity or maybe even her learning his identity.)

However bringing the numbers back also has the disadvantage of tying the book too much to the pre-marriage continuity, and creating the sense that not much has happened since then, when several years in Spider-Man's past are now going to be a blank slate.

Yeah but they still are "ill conceived and poorly executed stories"

And how difficult is to attract media attention when your main stories are

-Death of Captain America

-Spider-Man unmasking
Which by the way the 2 are likely to be retconed

I mean even Bob Harras or Mackie could do that
Very few people have called "The Death of Captain America" poorly executed. Granted, it's likely to be retconned, but so what? It's an incredibly well-received story.

At the same time many of the other changes (Spider-Man & Wolverine on the Avengers) seem to be brilliant for their respective franchises.

[liliaeth]

Handled better than a story that hasn't even come out yet? You might be right eventually, but at the moment, you're not.

Considering how boringly bad the first two issues of One More Day have been, I'm not holding out much hope for any improvement in the remaining parts.

[Noronha]

It's likely someone will remember the events from Amazing Spider-Man 290-445 (although I think the retcon will erase more storylines, as it'll likely undo Mary Jane telling Peter she knows his identity or maybe even her learning his identity.)

However bringing the numbers back also has the disadvantage of tying the book too much to the pre-marriage continuity, and creating the sense that not much has happened since then, when several years in Spider-Man's past are now going to be a blank slate.

I was being sarcastic.

Very few people have called "The Death of Captain America" poorly executed. Granted, it's likely to be retconned, but so what? It's an incredibly well-received story.

At the same time many of the other changes (Spider-Man & Wolverine on the Avengers) seem to be brilliant for their respective franchises.

I didn´t say that those stories were poorly executed.

I said that there were poorly executed stories and there were other´s that attracted media´s attention

I gave them as an example of how it´s easy to attract the media´s attention without much effort.

I actually liked a lot the unmasking and think it had a huge potential,but now will never know.

Its very clear to me now that JoeQ must´ve told JMS something like,since we are going to retcon everything,go ahead and do stories that people think that are never going to happen
So:

Aunt May finally knowing Peter´s identity
Peter living with the avengers
Peter as a teacher
Peter unmasking(especially this)
Spider Man was choosen by "Fairy Spider"(like MJ said lol)so he wasn´t just randonmly bittten.

[Reptisaurus!]

So, if this is true....

We're looking at something like Post-Crisis DC?

Where (to name one example) the Pre-Crisis Justice League stories still happened, except that Black Canary was in the Justice League instead of Wonder Woman, which means that the stories where everyone would be dead if it wasn't for Wonder Woman (I can think of two) apparently didn't happen, but everything else did except not in the same way except for the stuff with Earth Two which was actually pretty important what with several League fixtures originally coming from Earth Two and keep in mind that this erased a bunch of the best stories in the whole series (I am particularly fond of 46-47 and 100-102) and I could probably poop out another 10,000 words on how confusing it all was but I won't 'cause OW! OH @#$%! MY HEAD!

(And that's just one example. Don't even get me started on Superman or All Star Squadron.)

Well. That's just swell.

[Joe Zool]

The best solution I can come up with is that history was retconned so Iron Man and the public believed Spider-Man to be someone else. I wouldn't be surprised if the first Brand New Day issue of Amazing Spider-Man, has Steve Mcniven redraw his famous panel from Civil War #2, with an unmasked Spider-Man saying "My name is Irving Forbush, and I've been Spider-Man since I was fifteen years old."

Heh. That made me laugh.

You're probably right on McNiven redrawing that panel, though. He IS doing the first arc for BND.

[Red Lotus]

So, if this is true....

We're looking at something like Post-Crisis DC?

Where (to name one example) the Pre-Crisis Justice League stories still happened, except that Black Canary was in the Justice League instead of Wonder Woman, which means that the stories where everyone would be dead if it wasn't for Wonder Woman (I can think of two) apparently didn't happen, but everything else did except not in the same way except for the stuff with Earth Two which was actually pretty important what with several League fixtures originally coming from Earth Two and keep in mind that this erased a bunch of the best stories in the whole series (I am particularly fond of 46-47 and 100-102) and I could probably poop out another 10,000 words on how confusing it all was but I won't 'cause OW! OH @#$%! MY HEAD!

(And that's just one example. Don't even get me started on Superman or All Star Squadron.)

Well. That's just swell.

This goes back to what I said before its some thing that DC would do and some thing that Marvel has said they would never do. Its a Crisis like event to try to fix things. I hate DC.:mad:

[SilverWebs]

If all this comes to be, it could be a blessing in disguise. If sales of ASM noticeably drop and public opinion continue to be negative, how will Marvel react? Could be as easy as retconing the retcon or remove the cause of the titles decline, JQ and his creative team.

I particularly enjoyed Cyberman's comment about ignoring the readers. Not sure how much business experience you have but most companies spend considerable resources to understand and predict consumer behavior. Even if the online fans represent a small fraction of readership or primary source of revenue, their negative opinions will eventually have broader implications to the business.

[Mister Mets]

So, if this is true....

We're looking at something like Post-Crisis DC?

Where (to name one example) the Pre-Crisis Justice League stories still happened, except that Black Canary was in the Justice League instead of Wonder Woman, which means that the stories where everyone would be dead if it wasn't for Wonder Woman (I can think of two) apparently didn't happen, but everything else did except not in the same way except for the stuff with Earth Two which was actually pretty important what with several League fixtures originally coming from Earth Two and keep in mind that this erased a bunch of the best stories in the whole series (I am particularly fond of 46-47 and 100-102) and I could probably poop out another 10,000 words on how confusing it all was but I won't 'cause OW! OH @#$%! MY HEAD!

(And that's just one example. Don't even get me started on Superman or All Star Squadron.)

Well. That's just swell.
I think it'll be significantly less confusing given how unimportant the marriage was to the Marvel Universe as a whole.

All the writers have to establish is the status quo. They don't have to worry about how things happened differently. If the reader knows Mac Gargan is Venom, Spider-Man's a new Avenger and Kraven & Harry Osborn are dead, it doesn't matter how those stories occurred differently without Mary Jane (though I'm certain someone at Marvel is salivating about the possibility of a Spider-Man VS Venom Year One mini series)

If all this comes to be, it could be a blessing in disguise. If sales of ASM noticeably drop and public opinion continue to be negative, how will Marvel react? Could be as easy as retconing the retcon or remove the cause of the titles decline, JQ and his creative team.

I particularly enjoyed Cyberman's comment about ignoring the readers. Not sure how much business experience you have but most companies spend considerable resources to understand and predict consumer behavior. Even if the online fans represent a small fraction of readership or primary source of revenue, their negative opinions will eventually have broader implications to the business.
I legitimately believe Marvel should make certain to ignore the desires of fans who represent a small minority of the readers (IE- the guys who want Baby May back). If the message boards determined what comic books would have been successful, Astonishing X-Men, JMS's Amazing Spider-Man and New Avengers would have been failures while Nextwave, Spider-Girl and The Irredeemable Antman would be topping the charts.

The only real indication of whether something is successful is sales. If sales plummet with the new format, it will be so easy for Marvel to undo the retcon with a stetcon. They can either have a new story in which magic is used to undo the marriage (hell- the rumored plot in the first post allows that to happen the instant Mary Jane tells Peter about the marriage.) Or they could have Peter and Mary Jane start dating one another, and see if the fans are happy with that, eventually moving on to an engagement and a marriage.

But it would be irresponsible for Marvel to make decisions based solely (or in a large part) on how the message boards will react.

[Red Lotus]

I think it'll be significantly less confusing given how unimportant the marriage was to the Marvel Universe as a whole.

All the writers have to establish is the status quo. They don't have to worry about how things happened differently. If the reader knows Mac Gargan is Venom, Spider-Man's a new Avenger and Kraven & Harry Osborn are dead, it doesn't matter how those stories occurred differently without Mary Jane (though I'm certain someone at Marvel is salivating about the possibility of a Spider-Man VS Venom Year One mini series)


I legitimately believe Marvel should make certain to ignore the desires of fans who represent a small minority of the readers (IE- the guys who want Baby May back). If the message boards determined what comic books would have been successful, Astonishing X-Men, JMS's Amazing Spider-Man and New Avengers would have been failures while Nextwave, Spider-Girl and The Irredeemable Antman would be topping the charts.

The only real indication of whether something is successful is sales. If sales plummet with the new format, it will be so easy for Marvel to undo the retcon with a stetcon. They can either have a new story in which magic is used to undo the marriage (hell- the rumored plot in the first post allows that to happen the instant Mary Jane tells Peter about the marriage.) Or they could have Peter and Mary Jane start dating one another, and see if the fans are happy with that, eventually moving on to an engagement and a marriage.

But it would be irresponsible for Marvel to make decisions based solely (or in a large part) on how the message boards will react.


I really don't care about the marriage. If they could get rid of it with out saying years and years of events didn't happen then I'm ok with that.

[Omega Alpha]

However bringing the numbers back also has the disadvantage of tying the book too much to the pre-marriage continuity, and creating the sense that not much has happened since then, when several years in Spider-Man's past are now going to be a blank slate.


But that's exactly what is happening!

[Celgress]

So, if this is true....

We're looking at something like Post-Crisis DC?
swell.

And we all know how well that has worked out. :rolleyes:

[Celgress]

If all this comes to be, it could be a blessing in disguise. If sales of ASM noticeably drop and public opinion continue to be negative, how will Marvel react? Could be as easy as retconing the retcon or remove the cause of the titles decline, JQ and his creative team.

I particularly enjoyed Cyberman's comment about ignoring the readers. Not sure how much business experience you have but most companies spend considerable resources to understand and predict consumer behavior. Even if the online fans represent a small fraction of readership or primary source of revenue, their negative opinions will eventually have broader implications to the business.


Yeah I can just see it now. A typical big company, a new product, and a head of R&D who "doesn't give a shit about what the customers think, I'm gonna keep pushin' my new product 'cause at least I like it" :p

[CMBMOOL]

The writers will have to continue ignoring the fans, which they've done a good job of. Otherwise, we'd have had a story where Spider-Man found his long-lost baby, and the Aunt May who turned out to be alive was revealed as a Skrull.





Don't give me any more ideas/excuses for Marvel to try to weasel their way out of this one if sales drop. :(

[xmanson]

Does everyhting gets erased? or everyhting still happened the same except peter wasn't married in the stories? What about the stories that derived form their couple issues or involved both of them married (like a lot of the Harrys stuff)?? man, sorting out this stuff is gonna be a mess. MESS.

[CMBMOOL]

Marvel never ran out of ideas with the single Spider-Man. Stan Lee did, and chose to marry off Peter and Mary Jane in the comic strip. When Jim Shooter got word of this, he rather quickly changed the comics so the Peter and Mary Jane of the Spider-Man comics would get married at the same time.




Yeah it makes you wonder just How Stan Lee would be taking this piece of news since it was his "idea" in the first place and Marvel just followed with it as a respect to him. :(

[Celgress]

Bingo, what a mess indeed, but some people don't care about that.

[Spiffy]

I'm also wondering how this is gouing to effect certain people. Is everything still going to have happened, but nobody remembers it, or did it not happen at all? Either way, it wouldn't suprise me to see a few characters in situations that we didn't expect to see them.
Venom is the obvious one. His history has to be TOTALLY screwed up.

Will this even be addressed there and in other books? Because otherwise, it'll be a cluster-f***.
It's going to be anyway.

Yeah it makes you wonder just How Stan Lee would be taking this piece of news since it was his "idea" in the first place and Marvel just followed with it as a respect to him
Errrr. Last I checked Stan was still alive...

[Blader5489]

Yeah it makes you wonder just How Stan Lee would be taking this piece of news since it was his "idea" in the first place and Marvel just followed with it as a respect to him. :(

Stan Lee is completely oblivious to the current state of Spider-Man. He had no idea that Aunt May was shot and thought that meant she was dead. Not only does this show that he has no idea what's going on right now, but he also had no idea what happened 15 years ago when Aunt May did die.

[Magneto Rocks]

Yeah it makes you wonder just How Stan Lee would be taking this piece of news since it was his "idea" in the first place and Marvel just followed with it as a respect to him. :(

I doubt he would care, since it wasn't his idea for them to be married in the actual comics.

[Shyft]

So there is some hope for the future of Spider-man, if this occurs when Joe Q. is out of Marvel COmics office. :(

"Some hope for the future of Spiderman?" Jesus H Christ, its not like the books going to be unreadable JUST BECAUSE HES NOT MARRIED. People are acting as if they are changing Peter into a woman and changing his powers to shooting fireworks out of his hands! Its still going to be spiderman, guaranteed MJ will still be around SOMEWHERE, and who knows, the break up may even mean we get to see more of the other spidey supporting cast.

[Kusanagi]

If it wasn't for the whole Jackpot thing I could actually get behind this, but seriously MJ with superpowers? Really? Is this really necessary?

Also while I'm glad the general public won't know who he is now, I'll miss the different roles the supporting cast were going through over in Friendly Neighborhood Spidey.

[CyberCoyote]

So, if this is true....

We're looking at something like Post-Crisis DC?

Where (to name one example) the Pre-Crisis Justice League stories still happened, except that Black Canary was in the Justice League instead of Wonder Woman, which means that the stories where everyone would be dead if it wasn't for Wonder Woman (I can think of two) apparently didn't happen, but everything else did except not in the same way except for the stuff with Earth Two which was actually pretty important what with several League fixtures originally coming from Earth Two and keep in mind that this erased a bunch of the best stories in the whole series (I am particularly fond of 46-47 and 100-102) and I could probably poop out another 10,000 words on how confusing it all was but I won't 'cause OW! OH @#$%! MY HEAD!

(And that's just one example. Don't even get me started on Superman or All Star Squadron.)

Well. That's just swell.

Wow, no wonder I could never get into DC except in small doses..:confused:

I really don't get the ramifications of this, basically the WORLD is manipulated, and that's beyond unethical and I wouldn't expect such a thing from Pete (but MaryJane.. so be it)

Honestly I'm looking forward to reading Amazing AFTER OMD is dead and gone..

[Reptisaurus!]

This goes back to what I said before its some thing that DC would do and some thing that Marvel has said they would never do. Its a Crisis like event to try to fix things. I hate DC.:mad:

I'm honestly completely neutral on the Marvel vs. DC thing in general and Crisis in specific.

There were some big 'ol problems from the rebooting, but a lot of really good stuff was a more-or-less direct result of the reboot as well. I've been re-reading Suicide Squad and, man, outside of Epic that's better'n anything I've read from Marvel circa 1987.

I think it'll be significantly less confusing given how unimportant the marriage was to the Marvel Universe as a whole.

All the writers have to establish is the status quo. They don't have to worry about how things happened differently. If the reader knows Mac Gargan is Venom, Spider-Man's a new Avenger and Kraven & Harry Osborn are dead, it doesn't matter how those stories occurred differently without Mary Jane (though I'm certain someone at Marvel is salivating about the possibility of a Spider-Man VS Venom Year One mini series)


Oh, yeah. It won't affect multiple titles. And, like the Crisis, it probably won't affect one's enjoyment of individual stories and arcs...

Well, as long as you don't think about it and have to eat a whole bottle of aspirin and go lay down for a couple days.

But it's not a long-term thing. As long as Marvel pulls a Spider-Clone and never, EVER talks about it, nobody will care at all in a couple of years, outside a couple of zealots.

[Reptisaurus!]

Or, y'know, none of the stuff that's being speculated here will happen. Which is where I'd lay my money.

[Noronha]

If it wasn't for the whole Jackpot thing I could actually get behind this, but seriously MJ with superpowers? Really? Is this really necessary?

Yeahh am i the only one to think this is ridiculous???

Never mind that the marrige is over or that they are going to use magic to retcon everything(just kidding it´s impossible to ignore it)

But MJ with Superpowers????
RIP MJ,you have been killed as a character.Jackpot man,how do these think of something like this is beyond me

Which is basically what JoeQ always wanted,destroy her as character,no different of Mackie tried to do,he made her a obnoxious bi**(at leats she had reasons,her husband was lieing)JoeQ gives her super powers.

Jesus H Christ, its not like the books going to be unreadable JUST BECAUSE HES NOT MARRIED.


You guys don´t seem to understand we´re not angry only because the marrige is going to end(well it is)but it´s much more.

1-It will destroy 20 years of spidey stories,20 freaking years!!
2-it´s the stupid they are going to do it-using magic,no attempt at all to find a solution,just some really lazy writting
3-MJ will have super powers.

Do you want more anti-spidey stuff in the story?

Well but hey,it has shinny new creative teams so it will all be worth it(how many times have i seen this happen and actually work!)

[Mister Mets]

Yeah it makes you wonder just How Stan Lee would be taking this piece of news since it was his "idea" in the first place and Marvel just followed with it as a respect to him. :(
I don't think Stan Lee demanded Marvel marry the two in the regular comics.

Does everyhting gets erased? or everyhting still happened the same except peter wasn't married in the stories? What about the stories that derived form their couple issues or involved both of them married (like a lot of the Harrys stuff)?? man, sorting out this stuff is gonna be a mess. MESS.
It's easy for Marvel to avoid a mess. They just have to establish the new continuity. As long as readers understand what's happened (is Harry Osborn dead? Is Mac Gargan Venom?) there's no need to know how things were different because Peter wasn't married to Mary Jane.

But that's exactly what is happening!
Events will still have happened since Amazing Spider-Man #290 or whatever issue they choose.

The readers just wouldn't know what exactly those events are.

Yeah I can just see it now. A typical big company, a new product, and a head of R&D who "doesn't give a shit about what the customers think, I'm gonna keep pushin' my new product 'cause at least I like it" :pThe head of R& D shouldn't pay more attention to sales than the internet.

[Noronha]

By the way i just realized this.

Since Venom didn´t scare MJ she didn´t ask Peter to stop wearing the black costume,so he should still be wearing it.

Oh stupid me that isn´t convinient to JoeQ since the costume isn´t from the good old days.

I´ll bet it will fall in the categority"things that will be conviniently ignored by the retcon"

[XPac]

As a retcon, it's pretty cheap if it happens.

That said, it makes MJ look good and doesn't hurt Peter at all. So putting aside the cheapness of it, it's not too bad.

Since MJ still has her memories, it's not like the Peter/MJ story is necessarily over. It's just changing.

I liked the marriage, and am sad to see it go. But IF this is how things turn out, at least I can say it really could have been worse.

[Superbeast]

The minutiae this retcon will affect is huge across the whole Marvel Universe. Carnage never existed, Venom never existed, Black Cat never backed off, Aunt May never died the first time, The Clone Saga never happened, Ultimate Carnage never happened, he never revealed his identity, he never joined any incarnation of the Avengers, he was never part of the fill in Fantastic Four, he never forged a friendship with Johnny Storm, Flash Thompson never became his friend, he never left the Bugle, he never became a teacher, he never was part of the Secret Wars... all because Aunt May can't be allowed to die and Joe Q wants Peter single... and for whatever retarded reason thinks a super powered MJ will do any good. She'll probably be dead with in a year just to make sure they have no scope to reverse this travesty.

If they insist on retconning decades of continuity these days, why not just cancel the 616 lines and exclusively run the Ultimate and Marvel Knights lines and be done with it rather than continually pissing on or erasing established canon to suit their moods and personal preferences? It's like Marvel is being written by writers with no respect or restraint these days because they want to be innovative and different to try draw in audiences without realising that their core audience doesn't want the characters and stories they have invested in devalued because some writer doesn't like a fictional character.

[Brand]

I don't think Stan Lee demanded Marvel marry the two in the regular comics.

Stan has always supported the marriage when it's been brought up. Always. You should have seen how eagerly he helped hype the wedding back when it happened in the 80's. There was even a ceremony in New York before the wedding issue came out.

It's easy for Marvel to avoid a mess. They just have to establish the new continuity. As long as readers understand what's happened (is Harry Osborn dead? Is Mac Gargan Venom?) there's no need to know how things were different because Peter wasn't married to Mary Jane.

Twenty years. Over twenty years of continuity that readers are going to have to catch up on, and they're going to have to forget what they thought they knew. One of the things that keeps me from jumping onboard many long-running titles is the huge back history that they have, and I'm sure it's the same for a lot of people. That's why I started reading New Avengers - it was a new book where I didn't need to know every bit of history to enjoy the title. Solo titles like ASM don't have the same luxury of Avengers, though. NA was a fresh start with a new team, mostly comprised of new faces with some old standouts. ASM (if the rumors are true) will be a complete abandonment of the progression that's been made to this point.

Events will still have happened since Amazing Spider-Man #290 or whatever issue they choose.

The readers just wouldn't know what exactly those events are.

See my point above. We'll have so much catching up to do, a lot of people (like myself) probably would rather not bother trying. Especially if it turns out this new reality gets retconned in a year (or less) anyway.

The head of R& D shouldn't pay more attention to sales than the internet.

You know exactly what he meant, so quit trying to be a smart-aleck. And in fact, it would be wise for the head of R & D to know what the public was interested in since that would influence which direction his/her research should turn. There's no point in coming up with a new product if there's no demand for it, now is there? And that's exactly the situation Joe Q and Marvel might find themselves in if they're not careful; they may have developed Spider-Man into something that just isn't as attractive to the consumer as it was even a year ago.

Quit letting your dislike for the marriage blind you to the fact that you're in the minority. For the most part, people like MJ, don't want to see decades of Spidey history lost, and would rather see writers concentrate on writing good stories than work to complete the agendas of their EiC. We could have gotten some good stories from the unmasking, but it all had to be part of a plot to lead us to this point. The only people who did anything with the unmasking, who ever used Peter's supporting cast, just had their books cancelled; JMS spent all his time getting Peter to the mess he's in now, and there's no telling for sure just where we'll be once it's over.

[bjtrdff]

I believe that this is true, considering what Ive seen and that it makes sense in several ways (Peter doesnt make the choice, MJ does for him).

That said, I hate the idea, think it will mangle all kinds of other books (will the Avengers still know his identity? Will Stark?)

Realistically,Peter not unmasking could change civil war a lot, as he was one of the grand lynchpins to convince heroes to register. Im sure this wont be addressed, but....

[Shyft]

The minutiae this retcon will affect is huge across the whole Marvel Universe. Carnage never existed, Venom never existed, Black Cat never backed off, Aunt May never died the first time, The Clone Saga never happened, Ultimate Carnage never happened, he never revealed his identity, he never joined any incarnation of the Avengers, he was never part of the fill in Fantastic Four, he never forged a friendship with Johnny Storm, Flash Thompson never became his friend, he never left the Bugle, he never became a teacher, he never was part of the Secret Wars... all because Aunt May can't be allowed to die and Joe Q wants Peter single... and for whatever retarded reason thinks a super powered MJ will do any good. She'll probably be dead with in a year just to make sure they have no scope to reverse this travesty.



how is alot of that stuff linked into the Marriage/Aunt May being alive? The symbiotes and clone saga would have happened regardless of him being married/aunt may being alive, as would him have joining the Avengers.

[Wind-Breaker]

Instead of going through all that trouble to get MJ out the picture, if they wanted her gone that badly they might as well have just had her be the one that was shot by the sniper. It would have made Civil War even more "impactful", and would have reinforced the dangers of heroes revealing identites (like perfectly illustrated in DC's Identity Crisis) and it would have ultimately achieved the same result (Joe Q gets his bachelor Spidey back). Granted I'd hate that move as well (fan of the MJ/Peter pairing), but at least it would make more sense and wouldn't undo years of continuity.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA ....ohhh boy this sounds like shit. :p

[Superbeast]

how is alot of that stuff linked into the Marriage/Aunt May being alive? The symbiotes and clone saga would have happened regardless of him being married/aunt may being alive, as would him have joining the Avengers.


It's not a matter of it being linked in, it's a matter of everything involving Mary Jane as a wife being retconned. Venom visited MJ to get Peter's attention, Black Cat backed off once Spidey commited, MJ comforted Peter after May's death, she moved with him when he left town during the Clone Saga, Johnny and Spidey no longer competing came down to both maturing from their marriages, even though Johnny's fell apart, Flash became Peter's friend in later years after he accepted MJ was off limits and moved on, MJ motivated him to make more of himself which led to him leaving the Bugle and becoming a teacher, MJ was dating Peter before the Secret Wars, most temporal logic dictates without one occurence the other won't occur in sequence...

That enough?

[SUPERECWFAN1]

It's not a matter of it being linked in, it's a matter of everything involving Mary Jane as a wife being retconned. Venom visited MJ to get Peter's attention, Black Cat backed off once Spidey commited, MJ comforted Peter after May's death, she moved with him when he left town during the Clone Saga, Johnny and Spidey no longer competing came down to both maturing from their marriages, even though Johnny's fell apart, Flash became Peter's friend in later years after he accepted MJ was off limits and moved on, MJ motivated him to make more of himself which led to him leaving the Bugle and becoming a teacher, MJ was dating Peter before the Secret Wars, most temporal logic dictates without one occurence the other won't occur in sequence...

That enough?

Only Marvel can with a stupid retcon pretty much f-ckup their past.

[Kevinroc]

Only Marvel can with a stupid retcon pretty much f-ckup their past.

And then he punched a wall and lo, continuity was retconned.

Oh wait... That happened to those other guys. :p

[SUPERECWFAN1]

And then he punched a wall and lo, continuity was retconned.

Oh wait... That happened to those other guys. :p


What did Jason Todd's unknown rise from the grave impact ? Because he was always thought of being dead so Batman drove himself just as hard.... (plus the wall punching pretty made those various continuty mistakes the last 20 years into an explanation DC made)

Here their removing MJ from a lot of parts of Spidey's past and it plays a part. But they'll ignore it anyhow.

[Will.S]

So Sins Past happens regardless of the retcon right?

[PunisherFan]

cant wait to see how MJ gets her super powers... whooohoo. Go Marvel

[BlackCalvinist]

Okay, I only read pages 1-3 and p. 9 and I think one person mentioned it....

But doesn't this retcon (if legit) affect:

House of M, which affects everything else ?

Multiple places in the MU where Spidey was the key to solving a problem or situation ?

Is everyone else going to forget spidey was married too ?

What happens if MJ runs into Layla Miller ? Or Spidey runs into Layla Miller ?

At most, I'm thinking this only lasts 10-15 issues. Just like the unmasking.

[Ramiel]

So Sins Past happens regardless of the retcon right?

Right..right..

cant wait to see how MJ gets her super powers... whooohoo. Go Marvel

She gets them for the deal I believe is what is said in the first post


Is everyone else going to forget spidey was married too ?

What happens if MJ runs into Layla Miller ? Or Spidey runs into Layla Miller ?

At most, I'm thinking this only lasts 10-15 issues. Just like the unmasking.

Everyone else will forget because it's literally being cut from history, to everyone else besides MJ it never happened

MJ will already know, so her running into Miller will probably make no difference. As far as Spidey they will probably keep him away from Miller or maybe her powers don't work that way, maybe it takes more then just running into her and some effort on her part.

I'd say it'll last at least as long as Joe Q is top dog, the only way I see it lasting that shortly of a time is only if there's a serious backlash and sales plummet, then they may reconsider.

[Mister Mets]

By the way i just realized this.

Since Venom didn´t scare MJ she didn´t ask Peter to stop wearing the black costume,so he should still be wearing it.

Oh stupid me that isn´t convinient to JoeQ since the costume isn´t from the good old days.

I´ll bet it will fall in the categority"things that will be conviniently ignored by the retcon"
Or sometime between Venom's first appearance and Amazing Spider-Man #545, Peter would choose of his own volition not to wear the suit now associated with a murderer.

The minutiae this retcon will affect is huge across the whole Marvel Universe. Carnage never existed, Venom never existed, Black Cat never backed off, Aunt May never died the first time, The Clone Saga never happened, Ultimate Carnage never happened, he never revealed his identity, he never joined any incarnation of the Avengers, he was never part of the fill in Fantastic Four, he never forged a friendship with Johnny Storm, Flash Thompson never became his friend, he never left the Bugle, he never became a teacher, he never was part of the Secret Wars... all because Aunt May can't be allowed to die and Joe Q wants Peter single... and for whatever retarded reason thinks a super powered MJ will do any good. She'll probably be dead with in a year just to make sure they have no scope to reverse this travesty.

If they insist on retconning decades of continuity these days, why not just cancel the 616 lines and exclusively run the Ultimate and Marvel Knights lines and be done with it rather than continually pissing on or erasing established canon to suit their moods and personal preferences? It's like Marvel is being written by writers with no respect or restraint these days because they want to be innovative and different to try draw in audiences without realising that their core audience doesn't want the characters and stories they have invested in devalued because some writer doesn't like a fictional character.
How would undoing the marriage undo all the things you explained in the first paragraph? There's nothing to indicate that that stuff wouldn't have happened anyway, nor is any explanation necessarily required as to how things went differently. I am interested in what you mean by Ultimate Carnage never happened.

If you're simply indicating your displeasure that the stories you enjoyed never happened as opposed to wondering how those events occurred differently, my best argument is that as long as someone in the Marvel Universe remembers what happened, those stories happened.

Stan has always supported the marriage when it's been brought up. Always. You should have seen how eagerly he helped hype the wedding back when it happened in the 80's. There was even a ceremony in New York before the wedding issue came out.
Stan Lee supporting the marriage isn't the same as demanding that the other writers marry off the two.

Twenty years. Over twenty years of continuity that readers are going to have to catch up on, and they're going to have to forget what they thought they knew. One of the things that keeps me from jumping onboard many long-running titles is the huge back history that they have, and I'm sure it's the same for a lot of people. That's why I started reading New Avengers - it was a new book where I didn't need to know every bit of history to enjoy the title. Solo titles like ASM don't have the same luxury of Avengers, though. NA was a fresh start with a new team, mostly comprised of new faces with some old standouts. ASM (if the rumors are true) will be a complete abandonment of the progression that's been made to this point.
So? I'm sure the Brand New Day book will be accessible to new readers, and will give them everything they need to know.

See my point above. We'll have so much catching up to do, a lot of people (like myself) probably would rather not bother trying. Especially if it turns out this new reality gets retconned in a year (or less) anyway.
What are you going to have to catch up on? Everything you need to know to understand what's going on should be conveyed within the comic. Look at how little JMS referenced the past continuity, for an example of how accessible Amazing Spider-Man could be.

You know exactly what he meant, so quit trying to be a smart-aleck. And in fact, it would be wise for the head of R & D to know what the public was interested in since that would influence which direction his/her research should turn. There's no point in coming up with a new product if there's no demand for it, now is there? And that's exactly the situation Joe Q and Marvel might find themselves in if they're not careful; they may have developed Spider-Man into something that just isn't as attractive to the consumer as it was even a year ago.

Quit letting your dislike for the marriage blind you to the fact that you're in the minority. For the most part, people like MJ, don't want to see decades of Spidey history lost, and would rather see writers concentrate on writing good stories than work to complete the agendas of their EiC. We could have gotten some good stories from the unmasking, but it all had to be part of a plot to lead us to this point. The only people who did anything with the unmasking, who ever used Peter's supporting cast, just had their books cancelled; JMS spent all his time getting Peter to the mess he's in now, and there's no telling for sure just where we'll be once it's over.
My argument is that Marvel should continue paying more attention to actual sales as opposed to what the readers say they want on the internet. I explained it in a vague manner which made it seem as if I suggested that the higher-ups at Marvel should completely ignore how the readers would react to something.

Sacosa and PAD got their books canceled because they sold poorly (for Spider-Man titles.) It was simply an example of Marvel listening to the readers in the only way that counts.

[Shyft]

It's not a matter of it being linked in, it's a matter of everything involving Mary Jane as a wife being retconned. Venom visited MJ to get Peter's attention, Black Cat backed off once Spidey commited, MJ comforted Peter after May's death, she moved with him when he left town during the Clone Saga, Johnny and Spidey no longer competing came down to both maturing from their marriages, even though Johnny's fell apart, Flash became Peter's friend in later years after he accepted MJ was off limits and moved on, MJ motivated him to make more of himself which led to him leaving the Bugle and becoming a teacher, MJ was dating Peter before the Secret Wars, most temporal logic dictates without one occurence the other won't occur in sequence...

That enough?

Just because MJ was dating Peter before Secret Wars doesnt mean he wouldn't have gone. The Beyonder grabbed alot of heroes, would he have said " hey Peter isnt dating anyone, i wont take him" ? And then Venom would still have been created, and Carnage. A person can mature without being married, being single does not equal being immature.

Yes alot of stuff will have to change, but alot of pretty significant stuff will still have happened. Even the clone saga would still have happened, Miles Warren cloning Peter had nothing to do with whether he was married or not.

[Alan2099]

This actually opens a lot of doors up for storytelling.
MJ isn't dead or anything, so if you need her around for a while, she can be there. If you don't need her, she can be pushed out of the way.

Anything that has hapened in the past can pretty much be used, but at the same time they can throw out twistes that you never saw coming. "Demogoblin isn't really dead becauser something diffferent happened. never expect to see him again, did you?"

This also gives MJ more to do, as she's got a lot more weight on her shoulders due to hr decission. Sure she saved Aunt May, but her life isn't ho she new it and on top of that, she's now a superhero herself and has to get used to that. Wonder if she's going to register? What would Spiey do if he found out her secret identity? And you simply can't put on tights and fight crime without picking up an archenemy or two.

[PunisherFan]

Heres a question i have.... Will the whole marriage never happen or will it have happened just no one remembers it? B/c if the 2nd is the case then all those events would still happen sorta. my god this is confusing and sux

[stillanerd]

If you're simply indicating your displeasure that the stories you enjoyed never happened as opposed to wondering how those events occurred differently, my best argument is that as long as someone in the Marvel Universe remembers what happened, those stories happened.

But isn't the whole idea behind this is to try and get Spidey "Back to Basics" and move forward? In other words, isn't the whole idea to try and ignore what happened? So how is Mary Jane remembering everything accomplish this? All that does is remind readers of the old continuity and wonder when is Marvel going to get things back to normal. Remember, this was supposed to be Marvel's "final word" on the marriage, but how can it be when you have someone remember those prior events and remind readers of them? Perhaps Marvel is counting on the "tease" of whether or not Peter and MJ will get back together to drive up sales. However, because Joe Q has said numerous times that Spidey being married makes him "too old for the target audience," then Peter and MJ, even if they get back together, is not going to lead anywhere past the dating stage. Plus, if you do get them back together, then after all the trouble Marvel went through to separate them, what was the point in separating them if you were bringing them back together anyway?

So? I'm sure the Brand New Day book will be accessible to new readers, and will give them everything they need to know.


What are you going to have to catch up on? Everything you need to know to understand what's going on should be conveyed within the comic.

Actually, this will have the effect of potentially confusing new readers because:

1. Like it or not, everybody thanks to the movies, video games, cartoons, and even other comics associate Mary Jane as having some kind of romantic connection to Peter Parker and his primary love interest. You'll have to explain to new readers are going to wonder why Peter and Mary Jane are no longer seeing each other.

2. Since Mary Jane has always been depicted as having no superpowers, the new readers are going to ask how come she has them now, which means you'll have to explain the circumstances behind "One More Day" that explains how she got those powers.

3. Since Mary Jane remembers her being married to Spider-Man, it reminds readers that Peter and MJ were once together, and you'll have to constantly explain to new readers why they are no longer married and why no one else, including Spidey, remembers them being married.

4. You have essentially created two different timelines within the same universe, and readers are going to be asking which one is the official timeline and which comics count and which don't.

Remember, the reason why the Clone Saga failed wasn't just because it told long time readers that they had to basically throw out 20 years worth of comics because it featured a "phony" Spider-Man; it also failed to attract new readers because the Spider-Man they saw was a blond coffee shop attendant named named Ben Reilly and not the photographer Peter Parker and had to be constantly explained that they were the same guy. And it looks like a similar problem for Marvel is happening here. Oh, sure, Marvel can explain what went on before in their comics, but all that does is interrupt the flow and pacing of the stories they are trying to tell. Also, while you may have "extra pages" to explain the "new history" of a character, that's not going to last past maybe the first three issues of "Brand New Day." Of course, that means Marvel will be forced to create minis of the "lost years" of Spidey that tells what really happened in-between the time MJ told Peter she knew he was Spider-Man and Brand New Day. In short, Marvel will have to constantly explain themselves instead of doing what they wanted to do in the first place--move forward.

Look at how little JMS referenced the past continuity, for an example of how accessible Amazing Spider-Man could be.

Virtually JMS entire run made references to past events, especially with regards to Spidey's origin. The difference was that they were skewed versions of what actually happened in order to tell the kind of stories he wanted to tell, and that's what eventually got him into trouble in the first place. After all, that was what was so wrong with Sins Past to begin with--is that despite his claims that it was faithful to continuity, it actually wasn't.

Anything that has hapened in the past can pretty much be used, but at the same time they can throw out twistes that you never saw coming. "Demogoblin isn't really dead becauser something diffferent happened. never expect to see him again, did you?"

So either:
a. certain events never happened.
b. certain events still happened, only in slightly different ways.
c. there are two versions of what happened within the same universe.
d. all of the above.

If DC has been having this exact same problem, what makes you think Marvel won't have the exact same problem when they try the same thing?

This also gives MJ more to do, as she's got a lot more weight on her shoulders due to hr decission. Sure she saved Aunt May, but her life isn't ho she new it and on top of that, she's now a superhero herself and has to get used to that. Wonder if she's going to register? What would Spiey do if he found out her secret identity? And you simply can't put on tights and fight crime without picking up an archenemy or two.

Well, you know darn well that, sooner or later, MJ will eventually have to tell somebody due to the pressure of having to bear the burden of knowing of a particular reality that no one else remembers, because why else would Marvel add that little detail about if she tells anyone that it will cause a "timewave shock?" There's your seed for Marvel's version of a "Crisis on Infinite Earths" right there, and once again, MJ is branded a the scapegoat, this time for messing up not just Spider-Man but the MU in general. And don't think they would try something like this, especially if they can get another event-driven crossover out of it.

[Alan2099]

If DC has been having this exact same problem, what makes you think Marvel won't have the exact same problem when they try the same thing?
DC didn't have that problem until they tried to fix it.

[Mister Mets]

But isn't the whole idea behind this is to try and get Spidey "Back to Basics" and move forward? In other words, isn't the whole idea to try and ignore what happened? So how is Mary Jane remembering everything accomplish this? All that does is remind readers of the old continuity and wonder when is Marvel going to get things back to normal. Remember, this was supposed to be Marvel's "final word" on the marriage, but how can it be when you have someone remember those prior events and remind readers of them? Perhaps Marvel is counting on the "tease" of whether or not Peter and MJ will get back together to drive up sales. However, because Joe Q has said numerous times that Spidey being married makes him "too old for the target audience," then Peter and MJ, even if they get back together, is not going to lead anywhere past the dating stage. Plus, if you do get them bac