OMD: Let's whine about it! - MEGATHREAD!

[LawGiver]

The last 20 years did happen, regardless of what has just taken place.

[xarathos]

You mean with House Of Meh? Yes, that would have been loads better. It boggles the mind that he didn't do it then, actually.

I wasn't thinking about that. But it would of been better. Understated, then if you have something better to go with, do that and maybe readers would forget about it.

[Noronha]

The last 20 years did happen, regardless of what has just taken place.

So I have only one question,if it did happen why aren´t they married?

[PunisherFan]

wait, wait ,wait... so MJ and Peter's marriage is what really killed Harry? Ah it makes sense now... he couldn't have Pete to himself so he OD'ed on the goblin formula. lol. Well I'll still read comics...just not Spider-Man. I'm goign to browse thru the 4th part to mae sure its all real and then throw up and never bother going to that part of the comic store ever again.

[LawGiver]

So I have only one question,if it did happen why aren´t they married?

Devil Magic.

That history is still there. Regardless of this magic retcon. They still experienced those things. Those stories, those issues aren't tainted, just aren't an influence right now on this Peter Parker. Also, please, drop the attitude with us, we're just trying to have a simple discussion.

[Harlock]

Nope its called knowing a spin job when you see it and the whole excuse about 20 years not being erased is a spin job, especially when Harry of all people is back in the picture.

It's a freaking comic book. Retcons (even those as ham-fisted as OMD) happen. You're a fan of the character, or you're not. So, you can sit back and enjoy the ride or can whine. As this is the internet, I expect the latter.

[Fatguy]

So I have only one question,if it did happen why aren´t they married?

lol by that logic, a divorce means your wedding never happened despite the photos on your wall.

[Superbeast]

Peter is pro-choice but only if it means old people live longer as a result.

Who'da thunk it?

[Harlock]

lol by that logic, a divorce means your wedding never happened despite the photos on your wall.

LMAO! Now that is true logic.

[drwho]

Things that will be bugging me with BND

1. Does the Torch and Peter know each others identities?
2. Does anyone know Spidey's identity?
3. Is Spidey a New Avenger?
4. Will Norman Osborn still be in Thunderbolts?
5. Will Harry never have had a son?
6. What will happen with Molten Master and Harry's wife?
7. Will Venom know Spidey's id?
8. Will Norman know Spidey's id?

God this just gives me a headache listing all this. forget about it.

[Gloria]

Start showing some bloody restraint, for starters. Get it through their head that people will buy more if the stuff is good, even if it costs more and doesn't come out as often.
Quesada is quite pleased with himself when their biggest properties break 100.000 issues sold. Publisher Dargaud is quite miffed when the latest Astérix album would sell less than one million copies in France alone. Of course, even though Astérix predates the X-Men by a couple of years, he's had less than 40 adventures, whil the X-Men have had hundreds of not thousands.

You mentioned Asterix, but you could also say Tintin, Lieutenant Blueberry, Spirou... etc.

Maybe the important thing about them (apart from the quality) is that, albeit mostly aimed to a young audience, many European comics have enough quality to be enjoyed by older people, too: Their success is due to the fact that their readership is more transversal, age wise.

[Harlock]

Things that will be bugging me with BND

1. Does the Torch and Peter know each others identities?
2. Does anyone know Spidey's identity?
3. Is Spidey a New Avenger?
4. Will Norman Osborn still be in Thunderbolts?
5. Will Harry never have had a son?
6. What will happen with Molten Master and Harry's wife?
7. Will Venom know Spidey's id?
8. Will Norman know Spidey's id?

God this just gives me a headache listing all this. forget about it.

Been reading comic books for long? BTW, Pixie rocks. She is the new Wolverine!

[Noronha]

Devil Magic.

That history is still there. Regardless of this magic retcon. They still experienced those things. Those stories, those issues aren't tainted, just aren't an influence right now on this Peter Parker. Also, please, drop the attitude with us, we're just trying to have a simple discussion.

What attitude?i just asked a simple question and the answer is even simpler they didn´t happen.

Did harry Osborn died in Spect 200?no,he´s alive
So,it didn´t happen

[Dr. K]

Devil Magic.

That history is still there. Regardless of this magic retcon. They still experienced those things. Those stories, those issues aren't tainted, just aren't an influence right now on this Peter Parker.

And if they aren't an influence on the Peter Parker of today, of what consequence are they?

For those of us who enjoy the tradition of strong continuity that Marvel fostered for its first 40 years of business, those issues only conflict with the new status quo. Or the new status quo conflicts with them, which is why we will no longer support the new status quo.

[jilll]

I know that no body cares what I have to say... but I’ll say it anyway.

I think this was my favorite issue of Amazing I have ever read. I think it was brilliant. The fact that it pissed off so many readers, well... that just makes it even better. If you think about, it was obvious what was going to happen. It is Peter Parker. Peter Parker would never let his Aunt die. He already blamed himself for the entire situation. MJ had a good point, that it could be her time... however, Peter could never live with himself if he let her die. If he chose MJ over his Aunt, then he would always remember that he killed his Aunt. He would always be taunted by the guilt and blah blah blah. If he chose that path, I think that it would have destroyed their marriage.... the fact that they wrote it with a romantic twist, I love that! MJ and Peter have the rarest love of all ... who cares that it erased all that time... Aunt May is alive, and Peter and MJ will fall in love and end up together again.... eventually. We all know it will happen eventually, and it will be fun to read that again. I can’t wait to see where it is all going from here.

That is just my opinion....

[Harlock]

You mentioned Asterix, but you could also say Tintin, Lieutenant Blueberry, Spirou... etc.

Maybe the important thing about them (apart from the quality) is that, albeit mostly aimed to a young audience, many European comics have enough quality to be enjoyed by older people, too: Their success is due to the fact that their readership is more transversal, age wise.

Interestingly enough, the comic book fan-base is an aging (maybe even dying) one. The obvious indication is sales of all-ages titles versus sales of more mature titles.

[Noronha]

lol by that logic, a divorce means your wedding never happened despite the photos on your wall.

You trying to compare a divorce to magic stuff in a comic?

[Fatguy]

Things that will be bugging me with BND

1. Does the Torch and Peter know each others identities?
2. Does anyone know Spidey's identity?
3. Is Spidey a New Avenger?
4. Will Norman Osborn still be in Thunderbolts?
5. Will Harry never have had a son?
6. What will happen with Molten Master and Harry's wife?
7. Will Venom know Spidey's id?
8. Will Norman know Spidey's id?


I'm actually REALLY curious about all that as well. I guess we'll have to read the comics to find out what the answers are ;)


Did harry Osborn died in Spect 200?no,he´s alive
So,it didn´t happen

C'mon now. Comic characters come back from the dead all the time. Doesnt mean they didnt die.

[Superbeast]

Things that will be bugging me with BND

1. Does the Torch and Peter know each others identities?
2. Does anyone know Spidey's identity?
3. Is Spidey a New Avenger?
4. Will Norman Osborn still be in Thunderbolts?
5. Will Harry never have had a son?
6. What will happen with Molten Master and Harry's wife?
7. Will Venom know Spidey's id?
8. Will Norman know Spidey's id?

God this just gives me a headache listing all this. forget about it.

What about Black Cat? She knew too prior to CW.

[Harlock]

I know that no body cares what I have to say... but I’ll say it anyway.

I think this was my favorite issue of Amazing I have ever read. I think it was brilliant. The fact that it pissed off so many readers, well... that just makes it even better. If you think about, it was obvious what was going to happen. It is Peter Parker. Peter Parker would never let his Aunt die. He already blamed himself for the entire situation. MJ had a good point, that it could be her time... however, Peter could never live with himself if he let her die. If he chose MJ over his Aunt, then he would always remember that he killed his Aunt. He would always be taunted by the guilt and blah blah blah. If he chose that path, I think that it would have destroyed their marriage.... the fact that they wrote it with a romantic twist, I love that! MJ and Peter have the rarest love of all ... who cares that it erased all that time... Aunt May is alive, and Peter and MJ will fall in love and end up together again.... eventually. We all know it will happen eventually, and it will be fun to read that again. I can’t wait to see where it is all going from here.

That is just my opinion....

I not only care, I concur. Welcome to the boards!

[Fatguy]

You trying to compare a divorce to magic stuff in a comic?

lol no, I was just having a little fun with the way you worded it ;)

[Alan2099]

And if they aren't an influence on the Peter Parker of today, of what consequence are they?
They're an influence on the MJ of today. For that matter just because some of the detail;s changed doesn't mean the basic story isn't the same. Of course, that doesn't mean that it is either. Right now for the first time in a Loooooooong time, the reader has no clue what to expect. Events might not happen the same way this time around, and there's no telling what characters that we all expected as long gone might show up, or which ones that we thought we could count on being different.

It's a world of posibilities, gentlemen. ... and ladies. ... and those of you who don't fall into either category (you know who you are. ;) )

[carabas]

I posit that the "damage" that was done is part and parcel of the medium.Why would a drop of literally millions of readers be part and parcel of the medium, especially if that drop did not occur in other countries?

And I say again, welcome to comic books. It's the medium. One can retcon the retcons but it comes down to franchise characters. Marvel and DC will not kill major characters.It's not the medium, it's the genre.
Nothing about comics makes them more or less subject to retcons than, say, novels or television series.
Now the genre 'serialized at infinitum superheroes' on the other hand...

The biggest problem (maybe the only problem) of the Amercan comic book industry, is that they have allowed one single genre to become almost synonimous with the entire medium. and let's face it, it's not the most dignified of genres to begin with.
Try to imagin a world in which the medium DVD is intrinsically linked to westerns, and that 90 percent of all DVDs would contain nothing but westerns, and indeed a DVD stoe salesman would look at you funny if you were looking for a horror movie that did not at least feature some undead cowboys.
Westerns would be 95% of th DVD market, but that 95% would be tiny drop compared to the VHS and cinema markets which would include all the other genres that hardcore westernlovers don't bother with.

That is the situation American comics are in. And I don't really think it can be fixed at all while DC and Marvel still exist.

[LawGiver]

You trying to compare a divorce to magic stuff in a comic?

Why not? We're taking this comic as serious as say a death in the family. So lets exaggerate. Death is a retcon of life so if someone dies, they never existed.

[Noronha]

C'mon now. Comic characters come back from the dead all the time. Doesnt mean they didnt die.

Yeah but usualy they came back and know they were dead,and everyone knows it,they came back to life due to other circumstances.

Harry comes back because the event that led to his death didn´t happen anymore.

[jilll]

I not only care, I concur. Welcome to the boards!

ha thank you! My boyfriend got me to reading USM and ASM... and he would most likely disagree with my view on this. However, he has not yet ready this issue... I can't wait to hear what he has to say about it!

[Noronha]

Why not? We're taking this comic as serious as say a death in the family. So lets exaggerate. Death is a retcon of life so if someone dies, they never existed.

Say what??

[LawGiver]

ha thank you! My boyfriend got me to reading USM and ASM... and he would most likely disagree with my view on this. However, he has not yet ready this issue... I can't wait to hear what he has to say about it!

Great post and welcome, I just recently joined too. I wouldn't say it's the best, I honestly don't like the retcon, but I think it is quite interesting the new status quo that has been brought about. So even though I'm pro-marriage, I want to see where this goes.

[Superbeast]

I know that no body cares what I have to say... but I’ll say it anyway.

I think this was my favorite issue of Amazing I have ever read. I think it was brilliant. The fact that it pissed off so many readers, well... that just makes it even better. If you think about, it was obvious what was going to happen. It is Peter Parker. Peter Parker would never let his Aunt die. He already blamed himself for the entire situation. MJ had a good point, that it could be her time... however, Peter could never live with himself if he let her die. If he chose MJ over his Aunt, then he would always remember that he killed his Aunt. He would always be taunted by the guilt and blah blah blah. If he chose that path, I think that it would have destroyed their marriage.... the fact that they wrote it with a romantic twist, I love that! MJ and Peter have the rarest love of all ... who cares that it erased all that time... Aunt May is alive, and Peter and MJ will fall in love and end up together again.... eventually. We all know it will happen eventually, and it will be fun to read that again. I can’t wait to see where it is all going from here.

That is just my opinion....

His aunt already died... well, a clone of her or whatever died, but he dealt with it and grew as a result. He lived without her then.

Also, he didn't kill his aunt, the bullet and injuries would have. Why would he feel guilty when he didn't do anything to harm her?

Also, maybe it's me, but I read MJ and Peter falling in love before, they did it recently in Ultimate Spiderman, do we really need a threepeat to undo the damage they've done with this story?

[Harlock]

You trying to compare a divorce to magic stuff in a comic?

But it was a fair simile. Noronha, I like and repsect you. We agree on many things. But look at what you just said. "Magic stuff in a comic". They're comics! Do you really think the Spider-marriage is just gone and forgotten? It isn't. It cannot be. It will be back. I may be a poor man, but I would bet my house that the marriage will be back. One can hate the way it was undone (and trust me, I do!) but it will be back. Heck, it's comic books. Retcons are always retconned and then retconned again in a different way. Let us at least be honest in that regard.

[will_butler]

This is one of the many reasons that I follow writers instead of characters, and why I don't read much in the way of ongoing superhero books.

Everyone who's dropping the book should totally try Scalped. It needs the readers, and I doubt you'll ever see a magic retcon in its pages.

Will

[Noronha]

But it was a fair simile. Noronha, I like and repsect you. We agree on many things. But look at what you just said. "Magic stuff in a comic". They're comics! Do you really think the Spider-marriage is just gone and forgotten? It isn't. It cannot be. It will be back. I may be a poor man, but I would bet my house that the marriage will be back. One can hate the way it was undone (and trust me, I do!) but it will be back. Heck, it's comic books. Retcons are always retconned and then retconned again in a different way. Let us at least be honest in that regard.


How good is you´re house:evilsmile ?

[Fatguy]

Say what??

Why are you acting so confused? He actually makes a pretty good point. So, if they decide to kill a character, is that retconning him so that he never existed?

I dont know what you INTEND to sound like, but that is what your point seems to be. That if it's not the CURRENT status quo, then it doesnt mean anything.

[Harlock]

How good is you´re house:evilsmile ?

1460 square feet, Large living and dining areas. 1 and 3/4 bath. Lots of front yard (personally I'd like to knock out some walls and re-do the floor plan) in a great neighborhood in a town that only got its first murder of the year this very month. Interested?

[jeffgamer]

Aunt May is alive, and Peter and MJ will fall in love and end up together again.... eventually. We all know it will happen eventually, and it will be fun to read that again. I can’t wait to see where it is all going from here.

I've already lived (via my continued readership) through the Harry Osborn friendship. The bachelor days. The wheatcakes. Peter dating others, falling in love with MJ. And then lived through another 20+ years of continuity. Those last 20 years have now been erased. If I want to visit the things I vicariously lived through...Harry, bachelorhood, mechanical webshooters, wheatcakes, Peter dating...I'll go pull out my back issues. I'm not going to shell out one solitary dime to live through reruns or reinterpretations.

(And, yes, I know there will be new stories, new villains, new relationships, etc. But there's a continuing saga of Spider-man that has now just been amputated...and THAT is the saga to which I was committed. This new thing is a stranger to me...and Marvel just lost any willingness I have to try something new that they offer, when it's clear that they have no loyalty to people like me, who have cared about the continuous story for decades.)

[Noronha]

Why are you acting so confused? He actually makes a pretty good point. So, if they decide to kill a character, is that retconning him so that he never existed?

I dont know what you INTEND to sound like, but that is what your point seems to be. That if it's not the CURRENT status quo, then it doesnt mean anything.

I´m talking comics wise.Not real life,to me it doesn´t matter if i know these stories happened.
Continuity wise they don´t existe anymore.Because the consequences of said events aren´t felt therefor they didn´t happen

The thing that´s driving me nuts is that i was completely past this,but this story was so much worse than i could ever predicted that i´m back to discussing the same things i´ve said i wouldn´t do anymore.

[carabas]

You mentioned Asterix, but you could also say Tintin, Lieutenant Blueberry, Spirou... etc.

Maybe the important thing about them (apart from the quality) is that, albeit mostly aimed to a young audience, many European comics have enough quality to be enjoyed by older people, too: Their success is due to the fact that their readership is more transversal, age wise.

Interestingly enough, the comic book fan-base is an aging (maybe even dying) one. The obvious indication is sales of all-ages titles versus sales of more mature titles.
Be that as it may, I'd like to point out that the position of non-all ages books in the French and Japanese markets is exponentially stronger than on the American one.

[Taniwha]

You guys do realize these aren't your characters? Your favorite version maybe this one, but someone elses favorite maybe the single, struggling Spider-Man. There are tons of aspects of the Marvel Universe that I don't like, but I'm not going around stomping my feet and calling someone I only know through interviews a bunch of names. It really seems to come off childish and immature the reactions this is garnering. I don't want to come off arrogant or condescending but there really has to be some other way to go about debating/reacting to this.


So let that "someone else" buy this crap. The EIC of Marvel shouldn't be pushing his personal desires on the characters either - because they're not HIS characters. They're The Larger Community's.

And there's no reason to pick up the comic after the storyline has been sodomized, just because you feel it's "mean" to the poor schleps who have to draw it afterwards.

Consider this: consider they made a change in the DC universe where Batman was rewritten, and the Joker never existed. He was saved from falling into the chemicals at Axis Plant and goes off to be a famous standup comedian with a wife and child. In the same Magic Retcon, Jason Todd becomes the 2nd Robin after he chops Dick Grayson into dog kibble and feeds him to Krypto.

That may not be MY Batman, but hey, it could be someone's! And if that someone is a problematic Editor, then we'll kiss his feet!

You could make the next story arc for that revised universe written by a tag team of Jeph Loeb, Grant Morrison, and The Lord Jesus H. Christ Himself (pencils by Rembrandt), and people would still dislike it. And anyone saying "I won't read this, it's crap made of other, smaller pieces of worse crap" isn't being mean to the Jeph/Grant/Himself trio.

It's being LOYAL to the characters people have known and loved for TWENTY MOTHERLOVING YEARS.

[Alan2099]

I´m talking comics wise.Not real life,to me it doesn´t matter if i know these stories happened.
Continuity wise they don´t existe anymore.Because the consequences of said events aren´t felt therefor they didn´t happen

But they DID happen. They happened to Mary Jane, or at the very least, she has the memories of them. Likewise, I'm sure Mephisto still knows how everything is supposed to be so if they ever decided to have him show up and toy with Peter using those memories and backgrounds that he has no knowledge of, it's already set up perfectly. ... Actually, Mysterio has hellish powers now, right? And he's given Spider-man false pasts quite a few times already. There's possibilities there.

Anyway, you don't see it much in Spidey books, but this sort of thing happens all the time with Avengers and X-men (especially X-men). One character will be from a time or reality that isn't the regular one, or never was, sometimes even being from a reality that no longer exists. Just because the Age of Apocalypse ended doesn't mean that Nate Grey had no past. It just meant his past isn't the same one that everybody elses is.

1460 square feet, Large living and dining areas. 1 and 3/4 bath. Lots of front yard (personally I'd like to knock out some walls and re-do the floor plan) in a great neighborhood in a town that only got its first murder of the year this very month. Interested?
So they haven't caught you yet. Glad to hear it. :evilsmile :p

[Fatguy]

I´m talking comics wise.Not real life,to me it doesn´t matter if i know these stories happened.
Continuity wise they don´t existe anymore.Because the consequences of said events aren´t felt therefor they didn´t happen

I see your point, though I disagree. No longer being touched upon just doesnt equal didnt happen anymore in my eyes.

[jilll]

I've already lived (via my continued readership) through the Harry Osborn friendship. The bachelor days. The wheatcakes. Peter dating others, falling in love with MJ. And then lived through another 20+ years of continuity. Those last 20 years have now been erased. If I want to visit the things I vicariously lived through...Harry, bachelorhood, mechanical webshooters, wheatcakes, Peter dating...I'll go pull out my back issues. I'm not going to shell out one solitary dime to live through reruns or reinterpretations.

(And, yes, I know there will be new stories, new villains, new relationships, etc. But there's a continuing saga of Spider-man that has now just been amputated...and THAT is the saga to which I was committed. This new thing is a stranger to me...and Marvel just lost any willingness I have to try something new that they offer, when it's clear that they have no loyalty to people like me, who have cared about the continuous story for decades.)

I see your point. It makes me sad to think about of all the back issues that I could go back and read.... but they are not erased, they are still sitting there in the boxes and boxes of back issues. They cannot take those away. Yes, of course there will be new stories ... and I hope that JQ doesn’t repeat all of the same boring stories, but goes a different and perhaps more interesting route.

It seems that everyone is just pissed off and has no hope that something good will come of this. Something good will come of this! (As I cringe my teeth making myself believe it is true).

And loyalty to you? I understand what you are saying, however my problem is I cannot grasp how so many loyal readers are dropping ASM entirely because the story didn’t go how they wanted it to. Decades of loyal readers no longer contributing another “solitary dime”.... how does that happen? Those so-called “loyal readers” aren’t loyal readers, because if they were, they would not drop ASM.... they would continue to buy. They would continue to support and read future issues whether they like the stories or not.

[carabas]

Also, he didn't kill his aunt, the bullet and injuries would have. Why would he feel guilty when he didn't do anything to harm her?Because he is Peter Parker. If he were in the Legion Of Superheroes, he'd be Guilt-Lad. Peter Parker suffers and has always suffered from irational guilt. He feels guilty when he sees a total stranger walking in the rain without an umbrella.
Parker feeling guilty is about the only thing in this sordid tale that makes sense.

[jilll]

Because he is Peter Parker. If he were in the Legion Of Superheroes, he'd be Guilt-Lad. Peter Parker suffers and has always suffered from irational guilt. He feels guilty when he sees a total stranger walking in the rain without an umbrella.
Parker feeling guilty is about the only thing in this sordid tale that makes sense.



exactly.... thank you!

[Harlock]

I´m talking comics wise.Not real life,to me it doesn´t matter if i know these stories happened.

So why do you care that OMD happened? You can hate the story all you want, but by your own logic, if it does not matter if you know these stories happened, why does it matter if any new story happens?

Continuity wise they don´t existe anymore.Because the consequences of said events aren´t felt therefor they didn´t happen

Didn't they? Peter and MJ chose this continuity. The events did happen and the characters simply chose to forget them. This story is not insular. It is, despite what some people think, progressing. Yes, it is progressing in a new direction. Yes, it shakes up the status quo. But, the story is progressing.

The thing that´s driving me nuts is that i was completely past this,but this story was so much worse than i could ever predicted that i´m back to discussing the same things i´ve said i wouldn´t do anymore.

The best laid plans of mice and men... I should really be done myself. So far, all of the people who dislike OMD are arguing only on emotion and not logic and I know logic makes no sense in an emotional argument.

[snoopafly]

But they DID happen. They happened to Mary Jane, or at the very least, she has the memories of them. Likewise, I'm sure Mephisto still knows how everything is supposed to be so if they ever decided to have him show up and toy with Peter using those memories and backgrounds that he has no knowledge of, it's already set up perfectly. ... Actually, Mysterio has hellish powers now, right? And he's given Spider-man false pasts quite a few times already. There's possibilities there.


I thought the point all the pro-single fans have been arguing the past few weeks is that Spider-Man is about Spider-man, not MJ. What does it matter if MJ remembers if Peter doesn't remember?

I see your point, though I disagree. No longer being touched upon just doesnt equal didnt happen anymore in my eyes.

I don't think he's arguing that the stories never happened, but that within the context of the Spiderverse - it doesn't exist at all. It just seems like a real regression as far as the characters go. All that character development of Peter, MJ, Aunt May and all of the Spider-Man villains has been thrown out the window in order to start over. Sure the stories of before happened, but if they have no effect on the current status quo, then it really did never occur in the eyes of the characters.




Didn't they? Peter and MJ chose this continuity. The events did happen and the characters simply chose to forget them. This story is not insular. It is, despite what some people think, progressing. Yes, it is progressing in a new direction. Yes, it shakes up the status quo. But, the story is progressing.
.

Story progression is one thing; character progression is another. People can argue whether the story has regressed or progressed all they want, fact of the matter is that it is neither. The story has gone off on a tangent to what we normally know - which is fine. But when it comes to Peter - comparatively he has regressed. But I guess this is the sacrifice in order to go into a new direction. For some people it will be enjoyable to see Peter "grow up" again and struggle juggling is crime fighting life along with his love life. For others it will feel like a bad case of deja vu.

[Alan2099]

I thought the point all the pro-single fans have been arguing the past few weeks is that Spider-Man is about Spider-man, not MJ. What does it matter if MJ remembers if Peter doesn't remember?
For one, it actually gives MJ a status quo where she has some distint advantages over Spider-man as well as actually giving her something to do in the first place. It adds an extra bit of spice to her character that wasn't there previously.

Of course the story is all about Peter, but what she knows and can do effects him the same way that Jameson, Dr. Ashley Kafka, or Flash thompson knowing something effects him. While a hero's story is primarily about the hero, they also need a good supporting cast and subplots to play off of. This sets up quite a few of them.

[philly]

I see your point. It makes me sad to think about of all the back issues that I could go back and read.... but they are not erased, they are still sitting there in the boxes and boxes of back issues. They cannot take those away. Yes, of course there will be new stories ... and I hope that JQ doesn’t repeat all of the same boring stories, but goes a different and perhaps more interesting route.

It seems that everyone is just pissed off and has no hope that something good will come of this. Something good will come of this! (As I cringe my teeth making myself believe it is true).

And loyalty to you? I understand what you are saying, however my problem is I cannot grasp how so many loyal readers are dropping ASM entirely because the story didn’t go how they wanted it to. Decades of loyal readers no longer contributing another “solitary dime”.... how does that happen? Those so-called “loyal readers” aren’t loyal readers, because if they were, they would not drop ASM.... they would continue to buy. They would continue to support and read future issues whether they like the stories or not.

So in other words real fans would accept this garbage and take it because it shows loyalty.

Oh boy.:rolleyes:

[snoopafly]

And loyalty to you? I understand what you are saying, however my problem is I cannot grasp how so many loyal readers are dropping ASM entirely because the story didn’t go how they wanted it to. Decades of loyal readers no longer contributing another “solitary dime”.... how does that happen? Those so-called “loyal readers” aren’t loyal readers, because if they were, they would not drop ASM.... they would continue to buy. They would continue to support and read future issues whether they like the stories or not.


How is that loyalty? No offense, but that sounds like blind allegience to me. if people want to continue reading - fine. If people want to stop reading - thats fine too. But deciding one or the other does not make a person more loyal than the opposition.

I don't understand peoples' arguments that for anyone who doesn't like the outcome of OMD, they should go back and read the old comics of Peter being married and just relive that. I want to see progression in a character, new and exciting stories - not relive the stuff that happened in the past and reminisce.

[bringthenoise]

And loyalty to you? I understand what you are saying, however my problem is I cannot grasp how so many loyal readers are dropping ASM entirely because the story didn’t go how they wanted it to. Decades of loyal readers no longer contributing another “solitary dime”.... how does that happen?

People are not dropping the book because the story did not turn out the way they wanted. They are dropping it because of the amateurish and ridiculous way it was done. If Joe Q was so desperate to get rid of the marriage, there are plenty of ways to do it that don't involve Spidey SELLING HIS SOUL TO THE DEVIL and a magical retcon of doom wiping out 20 years of continuity for no apparent reason.

Those so-called “loyal readers” aren’t loyal readers, because if they were, they would not drop ASM.... they would continue to buy. They would continue to support and read future issues whether they like the stories or not.

:eek: You really think that? That people should just ignore the quality of a comic and keep reading out of... what, habit? Why the hell would I pay £2 three times a month for the privelege of reading something I don't enjoy?

[snoopafly]

For one, it actually gives MJ a status quo where she has some distint advantages over Spider-man as well as actually giving her something to do in the first place. It adds an extra bit of spice to her character that wasn't there previously.

Of course the story is all about Peter, but what she knows and can do effects him the same way that Jameson, Dr. Ashley Kafka, or Flash thompson knowing something effects him. While a hero's story is primarily about the hero, they also need a good supporting cast and subplots to play off of. This sets up quite a few of them.

Do you think that is the direction they will take? I haven't read OMD pt 4, so I don't know what MJ remembers, if anything, but wouldn't that no longer make her a supporting character but a main character?

I don't know, I don't see how that makes for a good story. If it was anyone but MJ - ok, that would be interesting. But his own wife? Wouldn't her first action in BND be to woo back her husband?

[superion]

For me magical recons and Spiderman just don't mix. I would rather MJ and SM just be separated. If they want to bring back Harry Osborne they can always clone him.

[Harlock]

Story progression is one thing; character progression is another. People can argue whether the story has regressed or progressed all they want, fact of the matter is that it is neither. The story has gone off on a tangent to what we normally know - which is fine. But when it comes to Peter - comparatively he has regressed. But I guess this is the sacrifice in order to go into a new direction. For some people it will be enjoyable to see Peter "grow up" again and struggle juggling is crime fighting life along with his love life. For others it will feel like a bad case of deja vu.

How has the story not progressed? Spider-Man and his wife chose a direction. It's not some tangent. A tangent is something, like say, interpersonal relationships in a story about a crime-fighter. That's not to discount how interesting those stories can be, but Spider-Man is about Spider-Man, not a romance comic about Peter Parker and Mary Jane Watson Parker.

Yes, romance tangents can be an evocative part of a super hero comic book. But, they are not the be all end all. Again, I am baffled by the number of people that seem to think this is the end of Peter Parker and Mary Jane's relationship. There is no proof of such a thing happening. In fact, given Mary Jane's line of thought, there is every indication that the relationship between Peter and MJ will continue. Heck, in the end, their love could conquer even the devil's own deal. The future is wide open. So far all I hear are emotional arguments based on the past rather than objective and fair speculation on what the future may hold for Spider-Man.

If anyone is to be accused of regression, it is the so called fans so afraid of change that they cannot give the new Spider-Man a chance.

[Alan2099]

Do you think that is the direction they will take? I haven't read OMD pt 4, so I don't know what MJ remembers, if anything, but wouldn't that no longer make her a supporting character but a main character?
Actually, I haven't read it either. I'm not interested in it. I' waiting for what comes out of it. The fun part is, I don't know if that's where they're going with it. I have no clue what to expect. I enjoy that.

I don't know, I don't see how that makes for a good story. If it was anyone but MJ - ok, that would be interesting. But his own wife? Wouldn't her first action in BND be to woo back her husband?
From the rumors I've heard (not that I tend to trust rumors) part of the deal is that she can't tell Peter about their marriage. They could just as easily have MJ try to woo him back, but scare him off because she knows just a little too much about him. Like I said, who knows?

Supposedly, Harry's back as well and they used to be an item. Maybe in the current status quo, they still are. Makes for a twisted love triangle right there.

[snoopafly]

How has the story not progressed? Spider-Man and his wife chose a direction. It's not some tangent. A tangent is something, like say, interpersonal relationships in a story about a crime-fighter. That's not to discount how interesting those stories can be, but Spider-Man is about Spider-Man, not a romance comic about Peter Parker and Mary Jane Watson Parker.

Yes, romance tangents can be an evocative part of a super hero comic book. But, they are not the be all end all. Again, I am baffled by the number of people that seem to think this is the end of Peter Parker and Mary Jane's relationship. There is no proof of such a thing happening. In fact, given Mary Jane's line of thought, there is every indication that the relationship between Peter and MJ will continue. Heck, in the end, their love could conquer even the devil's own deal. The future is wide open. So far all I hear are emotional arguments based on the past rather than objective and fair speculation on what the future may hold for Spider-Man.

If anyone is to be accused of regression, it is the so called fans so afraid of change that they cannot give the new Spider-Man a chance.

When I think of a tangent, I think of going into a new direction - which is exactly what is occurring. I never said it was a bad thing - its just different. I never said or inferred that Spider-Man was a romance novel, I'm not sure where you got that. When a character goes from being an established superhero with a wife to a single guy living with his Aunt...doesn't that sound like regression?

I agree though, with what they are doing - the future is wide open. But like I said before, I envy your optimism that MJ and Peter will get back together - I wish I could look at it that way. Unfortunately, I just don't see why Quesada would be willing to take such a risk as OMD and then go back on it. Regardless of what people think about him or what they say about him, I'm sure he is an intelligent guy - he knows what he is doing.

[jackolover]

MJ had a good point, that it could be her time... however, Peter could never live with himself if he let her die. If he chose MJ over his Aunt, then he would always remember that he killed his Aunt. He would always be taunted by the guilt and blah blah blah. If he chose that path, I think that it would have destroyed their marriage....

See, I don't think that would happen, if they let May die. Peter puts too much weight on the guilt side of his life. It all started with the guilt thing about Uncle Bens death, and Peter is saying he can't live with that? Thats what he does live with. He takes those guilt feelings and makes himself a better hero. I think the marriage would survive, and they have each other to grieve with, so they can get over it.

But, saying all that, I still think it was a fine gesture for both of them, and the love they have for May, that they took this decision, and that was what was so selfless in all this. Both Peter and MJ sacrificed their old future, for the hope of the new future, but they kept May alive.

[snoopafly]

Actually, I haven't read it either. I'm not interested in it. I' waiting for what comes out of it. The fun part is, I don't know if that's where they're going with it. I have no clue what to expect. I enjoy that.


Really? So your not interested in reading OMD at all? May I ask why?

Actually, now that I think about it..how is that going to work with MJ remembering the marriage? Will her memories of this new Spiderverse merge with the old one? Would she remember everything that has happened up to that point in this new Spiderverse and be aware of the differences from what was before? Or is she thrust into the new Spiderverse completely blind to the new status quo, only aware that things are different and she has to feel things out for herself. THAT might actually be interesting and worthwhile...

[George Berryman]

Those so-called “loyal readers” aren’t loyal readers, because if they were, they would not drop ASM.... they would continue to buy. They would continue to support and read future issues whether they like the stories or not.

Uh no. You're defining a collector, not a fan - the two are by no means necessarily the same thing.

[philly]

People are not dropping the book because the story did not turn out the way they wanted. They are dropping it because of the amateurish and ridiculous way it was done. If Joe Q was so desperate to get rid of the marriage, there are plenty of ways to do it that don't involve Spidey SELLING HIS SOUL TO THE DEVIL and a magical retcon of doom wiping out 20 years of continuity for no apparent reason.



:eek: You really think that? That people should just ignore the quality of a comic and keep reading out of... what, habit? Why the hell would I pay £2 three times a month for the privelege of reading something I don't enjoy?

Its the argument most of the Joe Q supporters have. If you don't support the recon, you were never a fan to begin with. Another argument is the fact that people who hate the recon are over emotional and can't hold an argument while in reality those in favor of this are spinning as much as they can to justify the story. Funny but what can you do.

[Alan2099]

Really? So your not interested in reading OMD at all? May I ask why?

It's a Yellow Fear Monster story. The story itself isn't important. It just sets up the status quo for the stories that people really want to tell.

It's always been my belief that there's no reason to tel the stories you don't want to tel just to get to the ones you do. Just skip to the ones you do want to tell. That's the main reason I'm skipping it.

That ... and I realy don't like JMS's writting. I never thought he got Peter Parker right.

[jeffgamer]

Decades of loyal readers no longer contributing another “solitary dime”.... how does that happen? Those so-called “loyal readers” aren’t loyal readers, because if they were, they would not drop ASM.... they would continue to buy. They would continue to support and read future issues whether they like the stories or not.

I've read Spider-Man's tales for 34 years, Jill. I've stayed through everything (except when they told me Peter was not really Peter...and that was ONLY reversed because the readers revolted and bolted, as looks likely to happen now). I am loyal to the Spider-Man whose stories I have read for the past 34 years.

What is coming next is not him.

[snoopafly]

It's a Yellow Fear Monster story. The story itself isn't important. It just sets up the status quo for the stories that people really want to tell.

It's always been my belief that there's no reason to tel the stories you don't want to tel just to get to the ones you do. Just skip to the ones you do want to tell. That's the main reason I'm skipping it.

That ... and I realy don't like JMS's writting. I never thought he got Peter Parker right.

Thats cool. I prefer to read everything and anything in order to get a full grasp of the characters I'm reading about. So, even though I am not looking forward to reading OMD pt 4, I do want to see how it plays out and how it could affect Peter down the road if he ever remembers what he did.

I bet that won't happen, if ever, until Aunt May dies - he did all of this for her, if shes not around then Mephistor's deal is moot. But Aunt May dying probably won't happen for a VERY long time.

[HaHaHaHa]

that sounds like the shittiest plot ever. i was thinking about buying some issues due to bachalos art but if the plot is going this bad, i think ill just forget about it and check in about 5 years or so.:confused:

[philly]

I've read Spider-Man's tales for 34 years, Jill. I've stayed through everything (except when they told me Peter was not really Peter...and that was ONLY reversed because the readers revolted and bolted, as looks likely to happen now). I am loyal to the Spider-Man whose stories I have read for the past 34 years.

What is coming next is not him.

Its not him, its a forced editorial mandate created by Joe Q. That's why the story turn out so bad.

[DDM]

that sounds like the shittiest plot ever. i was thinking about buying some issues due to bachalos art but if the plot is going this bad, i think ill just forget about it and check in about 5 years or so.:confused:

If you're looking for Chris Bachalo's art, buy Generation X #1-25, Death #1-4 (series 1 & 2), & his relatively recent work on Uncanny X-Men & X-Men.

[philly]

If you're looking for Chris Bachalo's art, buy Generation X #1-25, Death #1-4 (series 1 & 2), & his relatively recent work on Uncanny X-Men & X-Men.

You can also check out some of the issues of the old vertigo book " Shade The Changing man" which were pretty good.

[Taniwha]

You can also check out some of the issues of the old vertigo book " Shade The Changing man" which were pretty good.

Damn straight you can. Shade the Changing Man was a FANTASTIC comic.

[Beast]

Its not him, its a forced editorial mandate created by Joe Q. That's why the story turn out so bad.
In the end it's still JMS' story. He's the one who makes it work or fail.

[chrismileslord]

Here's a small theory:

Maybe the events of BND and so on is taken place within a pocket Universe that is created by Mephisto, so that he could screw over Peter and MJ, and is seperated from the main Marvel Universe.

In the events of Secret Invasion, it 's shown that Spider-man is a Skrull and that all of Spidey's foes are acting up more so than usual. The heroes soon learn of the real Spidey and MJ's fate in Mephisto's relm and how its connected to the recent behavior change in Spidey rougues.

Dr. Strange and Thor, along with many Marvel heroes and Heroines, that was coaxed into this by Johnny Storm and some of Dr. Strange's magic which allowed them to see life under Spidey's eyes, plus Loki where Strange learns of his dealings with Spidey.

Soon there is a huge battle for Peter and his family souls that are held within Mephisto's relm. A huge battle is taken place where Loki battles for Spidey's soul along with the souls of his family.

In the end the "Prince of Lies," is defeated by the GOD of lies and Spidey is freed. We learn that Mephisto has been an influence in SPidey's recent decisions, including the unmasking, and the changes of Spidey's life ever since he meet Morlun, an agent of Mephisto.

In the end Spidey is given the chance to have his 'extra' powers remove from his body and he takes it the chance to be reverted back to his original power set.

Aunt May's spirit begs Peter and MJ to stay together and let her die in peace, and Peter is calmly able to let her go at last.

In the end the SHRA is soon reverted to a choice for most heroes to make if they would like to apply for government jobs, but Camp Hammord is still around.

The heores go home with a better understanding of Spider-man's life and allowed him to chose where does he want to go next with his life. That is where we end it for now.

So what do YOu all think of that ? :D

THIS WOULD BE AMAZING. I am sorry, I hate this. I am not going to drop Spidey, because I like the character so much, but I hope something like this happens. I really do. It would be the only way to make sense.

[Taniwha]

In the end it's still JMS' story. He's the one who makes it work or fail.

Ya can't polish a turd.

Are you trying to tell me JMS could, say, make a story work if it was about ... say... Superman setting fire to a puppy? Or a retcon in which Batman starts using a gun, and shoots criminals in the eyes?

I wouldn't wish this Scylla/Charybdis sewer of a storyline on JMS, or any writer.

[Sean Whitmore]

Okay, I combined the threads because...well, they were the same fucking thread. It's a natural, beautiful thing. Like sewing twins back together.

And I closed the thread for the next hour to calm things down. Just watch: whatever it was you were just about to say, hang onto it for an hour, and see if it's still worth saying then, and in what tone it's worth saying.


SEAN

[philly]

Ya can't polish a turd.

Are you trying to tell me JMS could, say, make a story work if it was about ... say... Superman setting fire to a puppy? Or a retcon in which Batman starts using a gun, and shoots criminals in the eyes?

I wouldn't wish this Scylla/Charybdis sewer of a storyline on JMS, or any writer.


JMS pretty much confirmed that it was all JOE Q's doing. I respect JMS more for having the guts to speak out on what was going on, especially with how bad this story turn out. No self respecting writer would want to be blamed for this travesty.

[CMBMOOL]

I want those who are staying on Spider-man for BND, to instantly PM me the moment you see Mephisto and the words "pocket universe" together in the same sentence.

In other words the moment I hear that I was right and that the events of BND and so on is taken place within a pocket universe of Mephisto's doing, then I'll come back to Spider-man. :D

[Fatguy]

that sounds like the shittiest plot ever. i was thinking about buying some issues due to bachalos art but if the plot is going this bad, i think ill just forget about it and check in about 5 years or so.:confused:

You can still check it out, regardless of the ridiculous OMD story. Just because what triggered the new status quo was crappy, doesnt mean the execution of the new status quo will be crappy. Its all different creative teams, and damn good ones too.

[Alan2099]

There's no harm in reading a book to see if you like it or not. If it makes you feel better, you can even go into the comic shop in one of those trenchcoats and big hats like the Thing wears when he's trying to stay unnoticed. That way nobody will know you're reading it.

[666andahalf]

My brother found this on another web site...

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h286/Nicholon922/harryvl6.jpg

What does this mean? Is this a flashback...? Is he going to be Menace...? Or am I crazy and this is from some issue that's already been released and I missed it?

Speculate!!!

[DarKye]

There's no need to speculate. It's the ending of One More Day. Check out the OMD whining thread.

[666andahalf]

There's no need to speculate. It's the ending of One More Day. Check out the OMD whining thread.

It hasn't come out in my area yet... dang it...

[Sean Whitmore]

There's no harm in reading a book to see if you like it or not. If it makes you feel better, you can even go into the comic shop in one of those trenchcoats and big hats like the Thing wears when he's trying to stay unnoticed. That way nobody will know you're reading it.

There's no coat thick enough that God can't see you.

Aaaaaand judge you.


SEAN

[DarKye]

Err. Sorry if that was an unwanted spoiler. I figured since you were asking about it..

[666andahalf]

Err. Sorry if that was an unwanted spoiler. I figured since you were asking about it..

Don't worry about it. I just thought I was on to something... :(

[DarKye]

Well, for all we know you may be on to something with him being/becoming Menace. Especially considering Norman is over in Thunderbolts and about to Goblin it up any minute now. I don't really see room for two goblins.

[Apex Tech]

Oh screw this.

I'm gonna go read some manga.

[Alan2099]

Oh screw this.

I'm gonna go read some manga.

Nice of you to share that with us. May I recommend Sailor Moon and Dragonball Z? You'll never seen anybody come back from the dead in those. :D

Seriously though, I like Harry being back here. Wonder if he's going to be a Goblin or not and how Norman is going to be affected by this. I'm also happy to see they didn't give him a movie inspired makeover.

[snoopafly]

whoa. i went out for a few hrs and this thread blew up by another 10 pages.

[snoopafly]

Seriously though, I like Harry being back here. Wonder if he's going to be a Goblin or not and how Norman is going to be affected by this. I'm also happy to see they didn't give him a movie inspired makeover.


I think thats the only thing I like about OMD. I've always wanted Harry to come back for some reason. I got into Spider-Man through the cartoon show and when I started reading Spider-Man (which just happened to be right in the middle of the Clone Saga when Norman revealed himself *gasp*), I was shocked to know that Harry was dead. I hope Norman is gone though...

[Tobias Drake]

There's no coat thick enough that God can't see you.

Aaaaaand judge you.


SEAN

I dunno. My leather coat is preeetty thick. I bet he can't see through leather! It's like the lead to his Superman!

[bulbasteve]

Seeing as how Harry is back I guess we can assume that the Kraven in Swing Shift really WAS Sergei.

[sodarobber]

Wow...I am so done with Spider-Man after this, you would think the ending would be cool what with all the hype and whatnot, but it really wasn't. Also, does this mean he's not with the New Avengers anymore? It just doesn't make sense. Brand New Day, Bah! No more Spider-Man for me, I'll save my money for better titles.

[Lunal]

I've never liked the marriage to MJ, felt it was forced. So i am biased in that regard. But hey I've remained a Spidey fan through The Other, Norman Osborn being back, The Civil War Reveal, the movies (which were good, but a little wincy for a long-time Spidey fan) and so on. This is a blip on the radar, he'll still be interesting. But I am wondering what Mephisto's ultimate plan is here...

[jackolover]

Wow...I am so done with Spider-Man after this, you would think the ending would be cool what with all the hype and whatnot, but it really wasn't. Also, does this mean he's not with the New Avengers anymore? It just doesn't make sense. Brand New Day, Bah! No more Spider-Man for me, I'll save my money for better titles.

New Avengers was formed before the Civil War identity exposition, so my guess is he is still a member. But I still need confirmation that this story is not a 70's story, set in some Mephisto alternative timeline.

If the BND is set in this current universe, then Civil War happened, and Peter Parker didn't reveal his secret Identity. Why Tony Stark didn't convince Peter to do so, I don't know. Maybe this BND Peter is a whole lot smarter than the Peter we actually got in CW. So we have to know who won the war, and if Cap is dead, while at the same time, the Red Skull is still roaming around, destabilizing America in the Cap books. What I don't understand is how Harry can still be alive, from Peter simply not revealing his identity in Civil War. Something else has happened as well. Maybe that's the thing MJ whispered into Mephistos ear. She threatened not to agree to the BND unless the devil brought back Harry.

[jackolover]

Wow...I am so done with Spider-Man after this, you would think the ending would be cool what with all the hype and whatnot, but it really wasn't. Also, does this mean he's not with the New Avengers anymore? It just doesn't make sense. Brand New Day, Bah! No more Spider-Man for me, I'll save my money for better titles.

New Avengers was formed before the Civil War identity exposition, so my guess is he is still a member. But I still need confirmation that this story is not a 70's story, set in some Mephisto alternative timeline.

If the BND is set in this current universe, then Civil War happened, and Peter Parker didn't reveal his secret Identity. Why Tony Stark didn't convince Peter to do so, I don't know. Maybe this BND Peter is a whole lot smarter than the Peter we actually got in CW. So we have to know who won the war, and if Cap is dead, while at the same time, the Red Skull is still roaming around, destabilizing America in the Cap books. What I don't understand is how Harry can still be alive, from Peter simply not revealing his identity in Civil War. Something else has happened as well. Maybe that's the thing MJ whispered into Mephistos ear. She threatened not to agree to the BND unless the devil brought back Harry.

[drwho]

I've never liked the marriage to MJ, felt it was forced. So i am biased in that regard. But hey I've remained a Spidey fan through The Other, Norman Osborn being back, The Civil War Reveal, the movies (which were good, but a little wincy for a long-time Spidey fan) and so on. This is a blip on the radar, he'll still be interesting. But I am wondering what Mephisto's ultimate plan is here...

To get Peter's marriage. There is no ultimate plan thats the problem.

[drwho]

I've never liked the marriage to MJ, felt it was forced. So i am biased in that regard. But hey I've remained a Spidey fan through The Other, Norman Osborn being back, The Civil War Reveal, the movies (which were good, but a little wincy for a long-time Spidey fan) and so on. This is a blip on the radar, he'll still be interesting. But I am wondering what Mephisto's ultimate plan is here...

To get Peter's marriage. There is no ultimate plan thats the problem.

[George Berryman]

But I am wondering what Mephisto's ultimate plan is here...

Ultimate Plan? This is it! Joephisto was only in to break up the marriage as Joe's Christmas gift to himself. There's no 'ultimate plan' here, just an asinine editorial edict.

[angeltread]

so im looking for the post that reveals what happened in the last issue of one more day... i dont have the issue yet (but will soon) and i cant wait i gotta know. and i dont want to comb thru the last 15 pages that have happened in the last day to find the exact one explains it all.... any one on right now can help me?

[George Berryman]

and i dont want to comb thru the last 15 pages that have happened in the last day to find the exact one explains it all.... any one on right now can help me?

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=140806

[angeltread]

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=140806

thank you!
and after reading that!
dear god why!!?????!!!!!

[George Berryman]

thank you!
and after reading that!
dear god why!!?????!!!!!

Exactly! :confused:

[Willminus2]

So after hearing about this, I've got to say something....

Anybody got a reset button? I take this as the people at Marvel admitting that they have totally screwed up this character over the past twenty years. I have to agree, yeah there have been alot of good stories, but mostly things have been a crap fest that have detracted from the overall sense of the character. Let's start looking at some examples:

1.) Sins Past
2.) Morlun and the Other storyline
3.) The Spider Clone
4.) Spiderman unmasking
5.) Killing and then bringing back Aunt May so many times it's like she's friggin Jean Grey.
6.) Norman Osbourne coming back from the dead.


I'm not sure that having Spiderman get married was such a bad thing, it's good character development, and there were tons of potential for stories that could have evolved from it. That being said if we have to put up with the marriage going away in order to retcon alot of the six things above, then I'm willing to put up with it.

[philly]

Exactly! :confused:

Its called Joe Q stroking his own ego and the sad part is the fact that a few people are calling what he's doing a leap forward for the character, despite the fact that they are erasing 20 years from his continuity.

[Tobias Drake]

Next issue, time freezes and the Beyonder steps out from behind the veil. He tells Peter, "Okay, this is just too much. Now, ever since the Clone Saga began, I've been dabbling with your life. A few clones here, a spider-totem there, toss in some rapidly aged twins...it was an experiment, gradually increasing the ludicrous nature of your life to see how much ridiculous bulls*** you would be willing to put up with before you realized that something is horribly wrong. It was a test. And you, sir, have FAILED."

[Rod G]

Next issue, time freezes and the Beyonder steps out from behind the veil. He tells Peter, "Okay, this is just too much. Now, ever since the Clone Saga began, I've been dabbling with your life. A few clones here, a spider-totem there, toss in some rapidly aged twins...it was an experiment, gradually increasing the ludicrous nature of your life to see how much ridiculous bulls*** you would be willing to put up with before you realized that something is horribly wrong. It was a test. And you, sir, have FAILED."



Heh.

Good one.

[Alan2099]

I think you posted that in the wrong topic.

[Rod G]

Hardly.I found this amusing,that's all.

[Tobias Drake]

I think you posted that in the wrong topic.

I considered posting it in the "Craziest ways to break up the marriage" thread, but because it actually has nothing to do with the marriage and instead is closer to whining about the magic reset button, I decided this was better.

[Theophilus]

For one, it actually gives MJ a status quo where she has some distint advantages over Spider-man as well as actually giving her something to do in the first place. It adds an extra bit of spice to her character that wasn't there previously.

That's a good point. Oddly enough, I think BND has the potential to be more popular with the pro-marriage camp. For those who think that Pete's going to return to his swinging single days, I'd say I seriously doubt it. Before Pete was learning how to live with MJ, now he's going to learn how to get back to her.

If anything, the marriage will now be a bigger focus than ever, since Peter's struggle to find his way back to MJ is going to be the most tempting subplot for any writer who's worth his salt.

[Brian M.]

Just read it.

The Good: The variant cover was beautiful.

The Bad: The story.

The result: I'm gonna pick up the first arc of Brand New Day. I wasn't gonna, but I'm interested. Two scenes at the end w/ Mary Jane indicate that she probably remembers. I'm curious about it now. Plus..McNiven art, how can you pass it up?

[drwho]

Finally read this issue and it is god damn awful. The whole discussion between MJ and Peter in deciding to choose the deal seemed all wrong to me. Peter will never get on with his life.

RIP Amazing

[Sean Whitmore]

New thread! Starting from scratch!

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?p=6050932#post6050932

Mmm, smell that new thread smell!

Brian, drwho, feel free to repost your thoughts on the issue over there, if you like.


SEAN