OMD: Let's whine about it! - MEGATHREAD!

[Alan2099]

No. It said he wanted them to be Peter's kids. it didn't say he'd already had the other scripts approved.

[Ramiel]

Nah, what I was saying was "There's this horrid anti-MJ hate, people say 'there's not stories done with her', but there don't HAVE to be, just like Lois Lane, she's not the CRUX of the story, she's the hero's GROUNDING POINT."

You read that One Year Later bit where Clark is dealing with losing his powers? And Lois convinces him to go back to heroing when his powers start returning? There's this incredibly touching moment where she pulls the Superman spitcurl down on his forehead, and says she always liked the curl.

Lois doesn't have to be the core of the story, neither does MJ. They're the point at which the hero gets to have a Normal Human Relationship.

People can say "OMG WELLZ MJ IS A SUPERMODELS", and complain that Not Every Comic Fanboy Dates a Hottie, but hey, how many of us are dating or married to Pulitzer Prize Winning Journalists, either? Besides, MJ isn't a 'supermodel', she was a b-list fashion model and part-time soap actress. She's the female Joey Tribiani, at best.

Oh, wow, I was really off in my last interpretation:(

[jpk]

Give it time. Joe Q won't be EIC forever. Some day a new editor will come along and clean up the Spider-mess.

[Noronha]

To put the whole debate on whether One More Day sales went down or FNSM sales went up in some context, it's worth analyzing the sales of the first nine issues of "The Other" when all the books for a month were written by the same writer.

http://www.cbgxtra.com/Default.aspx?tabid=989
Before the crossover Amazing Spider-Man sold 71,100 copies and Marvel Knights Spider-Man sold 47,600 copies.
I take back what I said about Amazing Spider-Man being a modest hit if it averages 80,000 copies an issue. 70,000 copies would probably be enough.

http://www.cbgxtra.com/Default.aspx?tabid=1132
In the first month, Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man sold 85,700 copies (it had the first issue boost, and the first part of a major crossover.) Amazing Spider-man sold 79,500 copies while MKSM sold 66,100 copies.

http://www.cbgxtra.com/Default.aspx?tabid=1136
On the second month, Amazing Spider-Man sold 79,700 copies, FNSM sold 74,800 copies and MKSM sold 64,700 copies.

http://www.cbgxtra.com/Default.aspx?tabid=1137
On the third month, Amazing Spider-Man sold 79,300 copies, FNSM sold 72,300 copies and MKSM sold 68,000 copies.

I believe these numbers don't take into account second or third printings, but they are revealing. Sales of Amazing Spider-Man throughout the crossover are fairly consistent, despite changes to writers every issue. MKSM remained the lowest selling title. FNSM #1 debuted nicely, but 2 and 3 were showing a standard decline (although somewhat alleviated by the crossover.)

This just proves my point:

I just think nowadays despite what most people claim,they want major crossovers and constant events that change the characters life.
Just look at the numbers(i know that a big event has a lot of publicity),a major crossover has the bigger numbers in sales while books like spider-girl and ultimate spider man that has only plain good stories struggles.

Every time the character starts to have self contained stories with a big subplot developing and the storytelling is smooth,light stories and sometimes darker ones BOOM we are shoved a reboot or a OMD.
I mean after the Clone Saga there was period where every spider title was very solid it had good stories and every thing was calm the sales continued to drop and the editors gave us the reboot.
Now we had JMS writting the book with good stories jenkins was doing the same and people start to leave the book BOOM major crossover life altering events and the sales go up and up.
I mean The Other and OMD are selling like there´s no tomorrow,while mini series like Spider-Man-Human Torch and Spider-Girl,FNSM continue to go down.

People say one thing in their posts and with their dollars do another.Why will joeQ stop doing things like the other or OMD,BIB,civil war if the sales go all the way up?

[Harlock]

Amazing Spider-Man(Cancelling after OMD ends)

Just thought that was worth pointing out.

[jeffgamer]

Give it time. Joe Q won't be EIC forever. Some day a new editor will come along and clean up the Spider-mess.

Yeah, right. And, for those of you who aren't a fan of the current Iraq situation, the above quote is analogically the same as saying, "Give it time. George W. won't be President forever. Some day a new president will come along and clean up the Iraq-mess." But the damage done beforehand will have been incalculable.

[Noronha]

Just thought that was worth pointing out.

Well what´s your point?
I´ve been collecting non stop for 20 years Spider-man books.
I´m not droping the book because it´s calming down and will have self contaning stories.

I´m leaving because i´ve lost interest in the character,what do you want me to do continue to spend money on something i have no interest?

[Harlock]

Well what´s your point?
I´ve been collecting non stop for 20 years Spider-man books.
I´m not droping the book because it´s calming down and will have self contaning stories.

I´m leaving because i´ve lost interest in the character,what do you want me to do continue to spend money on something i have no interest?

No, my point is that by waiting until after OMD to cancel you are part of the problem you indicate in your previous post. You are buying the very thing you seem to despise; a crossover.

[Noronha]

No, my point is that by waiting until after OMD to cancel you are part of the problem you indicate in your previous post. You are buying the very thing you seem to despise; a crossover.

I´d be part of the problem if i had droped the book and came back to OMD and than drop it again.

I´ve been collecting for 20 years,i don´t care if it´s a crossover or a single story,as long as i like it or is well writen,make some kind of sense and doesn´t f*** up continuity.
But the best perios inm spidey haven been the self contained stories with a big subplot developing and the storytelling is smooth,light stories and sometimes darker.Just like in the old days.

And i´m waiting because after OMD there is nothing in the book that could appeal to me.It ends my period of Spidey,might as well have the story that does it.
Not because the crossover has ended

[Harlock]

I´d be part of the problem if i had droped the book and came back to OMD and than drop it again.

I´ve been collecting for 20 years,i don´t care if it´s a crossover or a single story,as long as i like it or is well writen.
But the best perios inm spidey haven been the self contained stories with a big subplot developing and the storytelling is smooth,light stories and sometimes darker.Just like in the old days.

And i´m waiting because after OMD there is nothing in the book that could appeal to me.It ends my period of Spidey,might as well have the story that does it.
Not because the crossover has ended

Ah. I see. I haven't had the luxury of reading Brand New Day yet but I see you have. So am still waiting to see what happens after Brand New Day because I always enjoy Spider-Man and Peter Parker stories and I know comic books pretty well, so I expect not only new and exciting things for Spider-Man, but also that eventually, he and MJ can even beat the devil and that their love will conquer all.

After all, One More Day is just another storyline in the great history of Spider-Man, however fan reaction on the internet paints it. I suppose I am a true Spidey fan in that regard.

[edhopper]

No. It said he wanted them to be Peter's kids. it didn't say he'd already had the other scripts approved.

Could you split hairs any more?
JMS wrote the story with the kids being Peter's. Joe Q squashed that. Are we to believe that they ended up being Norman's without the input and complete approval of Joe Q over the protest of JMS?
The responsibility of the way Sins Past turned out rest squarely on Joe Q.

[david r]

Amazing Spider-Man hasn't been good since about #350. Around 1992, or so.

How can Marvel get their flagship character wrong, time and again?

[Noronha]

Ah. I see. I haven't had the luxury of reading Brand New Day yet but I see you have. So am still waiting to see what happens after Brand New Day because I always enjoy Spider-Man and Peter Parker stories and I know comic books pretty well, so I expect not only new and exciting things for Spider-Man, but also that eventually, he and MJ can even beat the devil and that their love will conquer all.

After all, One More Day is just another storyline in the great history of Spider-Man, however fan reaction on the internet paints it. I suppose I am a true Spidey fan in that regard.

Ok,i´m not going to start a "i´m a better spidey fan than you"discussion.
I made a point that people drop the book when all is calm and smooth and came back for the crossoovers,and after leave the book again.
Also i´m not dumb i can see the signs it´s not like BND is a complete mystery.
To me is fairly easy to understand how thew new status quo is going to be.
And i don´t have interest in reading it,i just don´t care anymore.I´m not doing it because i´m angry with OMD(i was)or to make a point to JoeQ.

[jeffgamer]

Ah. I see. I haven't had the luxury of reading Brand New Day yet but I see you have. So am still waiting to see what happens after Brand New Day because I always enjoy Spider-Man and Peter Parker stories and I know comic books pretty well, so I expect not only new and exciting things for Spider-Man, but also that eventually, he and MJ can even beat the devil and that their love will conquer all.

After all, One More Day is just another storyline in the great history of Spider-Man, however fan reaction on the internet paints it. I suppose I am a true Spidey fan in that regard.

Momentarily interjecting into your debate...

Harlock, two things:

#1: Do not presume that because you wish to stick with the book, that this makes you a "true Spidey fan." Noronha has been reading for decades, I believe...and I have been reading for 34 years. A true fan may be one who stays with the main character no matter what BS is shoveled by the editor, and nobody begrudges you the right to feel the way you do; a true fan may also be one who refuses to stand by and watch while the continuity he/she committed to for many years is erased by a megalomaniacal dictator in editor's shoes. That is the camp into which Noronha and I fall. Speaking for me, if 34 years of nearly continuous reading does not constitute true fandom, then nothing does. And the fact that MANY of us long-time true fans are willing to stop reading because of the editorial BS tells you something profound and revealing about how offensive JQ's decisions are to many of us.

#2: Noronha and I and many other fans have committed to the story of Peter Parker as he has grown for over four decades. The evolution of the character into a married man is part of that growth. If you erase that timeline, the continuing saga to which we were so passionately committed is simultaneously erased. Many of us simply are not willing to become invested in another incarnation of Spider-man if Marvel is so cavalierly willing to erase the current one. It doesn't matter if BND is reasonably well-written to us. It simply is not the Spider-man to which we have for so many, many years been committed. As true fans.

[Harlock]

Ok,i´m not going to start a "i´m a better spidey fan than you"discussion.
I made a point that people drop the book when all is calm and smooth and came back for the crossoovers,and after leave the book again.
Also i´m not dumb i can see the signs it´s not like BND is a complete mystery.
To me is fairly easy to understand how thew new status quo is going to be.
And i don´t have interest in reading it,i just don´t care anymore.I´m not doing it because i´m angry with OMD(i was)or to make a point to JoeQ.

I understand your point, but I suppose I am a realist in my expectations. Crossovers with major implications sell very well and even more so on a hot title like Spider-Man, Uncanny X-Men, Batman, Superman, etc. You'll always have people who jump on for a major issue or issues of Spider-Man. Some view it as an investment. Some just want to luck into some key issues. Others are simply interested in major changes in the lives of the biggest superheroes.

I will not go so far as to say Marvel is wrong to create crossovers. Crossovers have been a part of comic books since I was a kid. They used to be quite a bit more low key than they are now. But facts are facts and Marvel is a business, in the end, and them doing things to make themselves more financially stable is good for me, in the end, because it means the company is better off and the titles I read are better off and more likely to continue.

[Harlock]

Momentarily interjecting into your debate...

Harlock, two things:

#1: Do not presume that because you wish to stick with the book, that this makes you a "true Spidey fan." Noronha has been reading for decades, I believe...and I have been reading for 34 years. A true fan may be one who stays with the main character no matter what BS is shoveled by the editor, and nobody begrudges you the right to feel the way you do; a true fan may also be one who refuses to stand by and watch while the continuity he/she committed to for many years is erased by a megalomaniacal dictator in editor's shoes. That is the camp into which Noronha and I fall. Speaking for me, if 34 years of nearly continuous reading does not constitute true fandom, then nothing does. And the fact that MANY of us long-time true fans are willing to stop reading because of the editorial BS tells you something profound and revealing about how offensive JQ's decisions are to many of us.

#2: Noronha and I and many other fans have committed to the story of Peter Parker as he has grown for over four decades. The evolution of the character into a married man is part of that growth. If you erase that timeline, the continuing saga to which we were so passionately committed is simultaneously erased. Many of us simply are not willing to become invested in another incarnation of Spider-man if Marvel is so cavalierly willing to erase the current one. It doesn't matter if BND is reasonably well-written to us. It simply is not the Spider-man to which we have for so many, many years been committed. As true fans.

I started reading Spider-Man when I was 8 years old. I am 34 now. I hate the way the marriage is ending. I am one who even hates that the marriage is ending period and readily admit it. I have grown up reading Spider-Man. I got married, bought a house, have two kids... I really liked Spider-Man growing up with his fans. We are, after all, fan men these days and not fan boys.

And, since you are familiar with comic books and Spider-Man in general, you know as well as I do that these changes come and go. I see some awesome creative teams coming up. I do not doubt for one instance that the stories they portray will be compelling, fun and interesting, despite the cheap way in which Peter and MJ's marriage is seemingly going to end. That's all I am trying to say. As a true fan.

[Alan2099]

JMS wrote the story with the kids being Peter's. Joe Q squashed that. Are we to believe that they ended up being Norman's without the input and complete approval of Joe Q over the protest of JMS?
The responsibility of the way Sins Past turned out rest squarely on Joe Q.
All that I've heard anywhere is that Joe Q said they couldn't be Peter's kids. After that, we don't know. Maybe he said they had to be Norman's, maybe that was JMS's idea. All we know is that the original ending got axed somewhere along the way and a different ending got written into the book by JMS, whether it was his sole idea or not.

[Noronha]

I will not go so far as to say Marvel is wrong to create crossovers. Crossovers have been a part of comic books since I was a kid. They used to be quite a bit more low key than they are now. But facts are facts and Marvel is a business, in the end, and them doing things to make themselves more financially stable is good for me, in the end, because it means the company is better off and the titles I read are better off and more likely to continue.

Like i said:
The Other and OMD are selling like there´s no tomorrow,while mini series like Spider-Man-Human Torch and Spider-Girl,FNSM continue to go down.

People say one thing in their posts and with their dollars do another.Why will joeQ stop doing things like the other or OMD,BIB,civil war if the sales go all the way up?
If the formula is working why change it?I can´t criticize JoeQ for giving people what they want(actually i can and i´ve done it lol)
One of the reasons Spider-Man went downhill again it´s because this past year they drowned him in one major event after another.
That´s the reason why,to me,Sensational and FNSM were way better than amazing.

[Harlock]

In a way, I am glad they weren't Peter's children. I felt it would be odd, given the seeming nature and age of both Gwen and Peter at the time those books were written.

Plus, I for one, was one of those folks scratching my head when the new Superman movie came out and he was saddled with a child. I mean, if Superman, the paragon o' virtue cannot wait to hit it until he is married...

[Alan2099]

Those kid's could have been Peter's, Norman's, JJJ's, or Galactus's and the story still wouldn't have been a good one.

... well, maybe if they were Galactus's kids. Maybe.

[Harlock]

Like i said:
The Other and OMD are selling like there´s no tomorrow,while mini series like Spider-Man-Human Torch and Spider-Girl,FNSM continue to go down.

People say one thing in their posts and with their dollars do another.Why will joeQ stop doing things like the other or OMD,BIB,civil war if the sales go all the way up?

For one thing, comparing mini-series to regular titles is usually pretty pointless. Sure, some folks will buy them, but many folks have a limited budget and so buy only main titles or refuse to buy into a mini-series unless it has a really good creative team. FNSM sales declined for many reasons including the creative teams, the lack of any real developments within the series (after all, ASM is the flagship Spider-Man title and most folks know that any major changes like new villains or other characters are not going to happen in FNSM or SSM).

As for people saying one thing and doing another, I think you are making a presumptious statement. Who has said these things? Do you have any significant proof that they did not do what they said? Sure lots of folks complain on the internet about crossovers. How many people don't even bother posting to a comic book messageboard? I have to tell you, indications are that only a small percentage of readers actually care enough to come and talk about the books online at all. We're a minority.

So comparing internet "chatter" to actual sales figures is misleading. Comparing mini-series and non-flagshio titles to the main books are just not comparing apples to apples. As for when comic book companies (I refuse to lay this at Joe Quesada's feet alone since other companies do it too) will stop doing crossovers? When the bottom falls out again, I suppose. Hopefully they can nurse it to the right level rather than having the bottom drop out like it did before though.

[Harlock]

Those kid's could have been Peter's, Norman's, JJJ's, or Galactus's and the story still wouldn't have been a good one.

... well, maybe if they were Galactus's kids. Maybe.

I pretty much feel the same way you do on this one. JMS idea was not a great one in my book. I do think having the kids be Norman's was better than them being Peter's. I think Joe Q. did JMS a favor there.

[Noronha]

For one thing, comparing mini-series to regular titles is usually pretty pointless. Sure, some folks will buy them, but many folks have a limited budget and so buy only main titles or refuse to buy into a mini-series unless it has a really good creative team. FNSM sales declined for many reasons including the creative teams, the lack of any real developments within the series (after all, ASM is the flagship Spider-Man title and most folks know that any major changes like new villains or other characters are not going to happen in FNSM or SSM).

As for people saying one thing and doing another, I think you are making a presumptious statement. Who has said these things? Do you have any significant proof that they did not do what they said? Sure lots of folks complain on the internet about crossovers. How many people don't even bother posting to a comic book messageboard? I have to tell you, indications are that only a small percentage of readers actually care enough to come and talk about the books online at all. We're a minority.

So comparing internet "chatter" to actual sales figures is misleading. Comparing mini-series and non-flagshio titles to the main books are just not comparing apples to apples. As for when comic book companies (I refuse to lay this at Joe Quesada's feet alone since other companies do it too) will stop doing crossovers? When the bottom falls out again, I suppose. Hopefully they can nurse it to the right level rather than having the bottom drop out like it did before though.


http://www.spiderfan.org/fans/minipoll/trends.html
I said people from forums,they are a small percentage but not that small.
Here and in newsarama i´ve seen many of them saying that they want a funny spidey like in the old days,self containig stories just plain old solid spidey stories,just like the ones we have in Spider-Man Human Torch and in FNSM/Sensational.
And by saying that people don´t buy FNSM Sensational because nothing big will happen it just proves my point.Nowadays people don´t want books that havn´t got any big events,they want big events and constant life altering moments.
A lot of people are constantly complaining about how they want light hearted adventures of Spider-Man – you know, like the old days when Spidey was fun and when they are given that they don´t buy the damm books.
They buy 15.000 copies of Spider-Man/Human Torch(by Slott) and than go and buy 75.000 copies of The Other.

[Harlock]

http://www.spiderfan.org/fans/minipoll/trends.html
I said people from forums,they are a small percentage but not that small.
Here and in newsarama i´ve seen many of them saying that they want a funny spidey like in the old days,self containig stories just plain old solid spidey stories,just like the ones we have in Spider-Man Human Torch and in FNSM/Sensational.
And by saying that people don´t buy FNSM Sensational because nothing big will happen it just proves my point.Nowadays people don´t want books that havn´t got any big events,they want big events and constant life altering moments.
A lot of people are constantly complaining about how they want light hearted adventures of Spider-Man – you know, like the old days when Spidey was fun and when they are given that they don´t buy the damm books.

People like drama. The thing that has always been cool about Spider-Man to me is that there is drama but his levity and attitude made it seem... less scary somehow. Spider-Man had this indomitable will. I still think that Spider-Man exists. Also, internet polls don't really hold much sway based on the sample size, inherent bias of the sample, etc. Anyway, off to read. Thanks for the debate.

[jwd]

While having kids is the next logical step and shakes up the status quo, what do you do afterwards.

Let him continue to be Spider-Man and juggle that with having a wife and little toddler. Franklin Richards has been 4 for decades. There's no reason he can't have a toddler for 20 or 30 years in the books.

Who cares if he gets older doing this? I mean true the original appeal of Spider-Man was that he was a teen superhero which was a rarity in it. What's remained consistant though is its really about a normal guy gaining superpowers and how it effects his life. He isn't rich. He still has to make a living. Things don't always go right for him but on occassion they which is usually how it is for most people probably.

20 or 30 years later let the kid age a little and maybe even give him a 2nd child. Let the kid start developing powers and Peter have to deal with that.

They could keep going for another century on stories and not have Peter be to old to operate as Spider-Man.

[edhopper]

Two points. The real problem with that story isn't that they are Norman's kids. It's that Gwen had a sexual relationship with Norman in the first place. It went so against everything we knew about her character that it made one cringe.
And again please stop being naive. Joe Q laid a very heavy editoral hand on stopping the kids from being Peter's, but he was removed from the process of making them Norman's? I'ts very hard to accept that premise. One has to assume that the changes in Sins Past were done with the strong approval and input of Joe Q.

[Alan2099]

And again please stop being naive. Joe Q laid a very heavy editoral hand on stopping the kids from being Peter's, but he was removed from the process of making them Norman's? I'ts very hard to accept that premise. One has to assume that the changes in Sins Past were done with the strong approval and input of Joe Q.
Of course, Joe has a heavy hand in EVERYTHING Marvel publishes. That's part of his job.

The part I'm questioning is did he sit down and tell JMS that they HAD to be Norman's? Did he suggest it? Was it JMS's idea? However you split the blame, JMS was the person that actually wrote it and Joe was the one that approved it to be written.

Don't blame one without the other.

[Mister Mets]

Two points. The real problem with that story isn't that they are Norman's kids. It's that Gwen had a sexual relationship with Norman in the first place. It went so against everything we knew about her character that it made one cringe.
And again please stop being naive. Joe Q laid a very heavy editoral hand on stopping the kids from being Peter's, but he was removed from the process of making them Norman's? I'ts very hard to accept that premise. One has to assume that the changes in Sins Past were done with the strong approval and input of Joe Q.
Joe Quesada obviously approved the kid's being Norman's, but that didn't mean JMS had to do the story, after his initial plans were rejected.

[PunisherFan]

the kids should have just been Harry's, it would have made more sense that way. It's kind of creepy that they are Norman's and JMS totsally destroyed Gwen's character for me. Him and JQ can burn in hell for what they've dont to Spider-Man.... it's totally unreadable dreck at this point in time

[IRONY...]

So, with all the commotion about the marriage ending, I have to ask, what exactly is so great about Mary Jane? I'm not interested in hearing about the marriage here, but the character herself. What does SHE bring to the titles that no other character could?

Honestly, I liked MJ in the cartoons. She was pretty much the unobtainable ideal pretty girl, just classy enough to be barely out of Peter's league, but still obtainable.

In Spider-girl, I find she adds a very nice voice of reason to the books and a great way to bring the gap between Mayday and Peter, as well as coming off a lot stronger and more mature than normal 616 MJ.

The movie MJ has a lot of the appeal of the cartoon version, but isn't quite as high of a class. She's put on a pedstal by Peter, but is really just as messed up as he is.

Ultimate MJ I don't care for. She's almost the carbon copy of Peter. There's no real contrast there. Now I think they work well as friends there, but I just can't see any serious relationship working, no matter how much they try to force it.

Regualr MJ, Peter's wife... she really doesn't do anything for me.



Hot...:mad: :mad: :mad:

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I think what helped fans really latch onto MJ was the fact that she was really something good for Peter. His life may suck , he may lose jobs , rent , friends ect ect. But he'd come home and there would be : MJ. No matter all the horrible bad shit that poor Peter Parker , had... there would be.... MJ.

So now he's basically lost it all. He's became the super powered version of Drew Carey.

[Alan2099]

So now he's basically lost it all. He's became the super powered version of Drew Carey.
That creates a very intresting mental picture.

[Ramiel]

Hot...:mad: :mad: :mad:

She'll still be there, just now she'll run around in a skin tight outfit

[Brian M.]

MJ is the Messiah Complex baby.

[Dark Soul # 7]

*sigh*

What's so great about Mary Jane, besides being Spider-man's wife, you ask.

Like her husband she has a will of iron. She's been down a pretty damn bad road in her life. But it's never stopped her from following heart. She works hard for her hopes and dreams to come true. Unfortunatley whenever that happens it doesn't last for long, her relationship with Peter being the exception.

Another is this. You know how other superhero wifes are either trained to be able to fight and/or have superpowers? Mary Jane has none of that and yet she's survived encounters with several of her husbands classic villains one pure wit and will, and a bat in a few cases. In short she doesn't need facy martial arts or superpowers to take care of herself when her husbands not around. Hell, she's saved him at least twice on her own.

Her character evolution throughout the years has been spectacular. From troubled girl covering it all up with a party act to close friend and confidant of several people to a mature and competent woman, who just happens to be married to Spider-man. And she's always had those dreams of acting to a large audience, which she probably never will reach because of her special life.

Then we have her character. It's so versatile for a fictional person. She can be the life of the party one second, then inside joke funny with her friends, then calm and collected. Serious works great with Mary Jane as well. Over the years she's there's been great scenes where she displays anger, sorrow, fear and everything in-between. The point of this is that you basically put her in any situation and she can totally work in it.

Finally we have what some many others before me have mentioned. She is Peter Parker's rock. He's said it more than once. He can be so amazing because of her. That she believes in him is what keeps him going. He fights his hardest everyday just to be able to see her smile. He just flat-out needs her like any other man needs food and water. And you know what? She needs Peter just as much. They're soulmates, best friends, lovers and everything inbetween. Do you think that anyone who didn't really love Peter would stick with him throughout everything MJ's been through? Hell no! She's a fighter and it's going to take more than some fumbass magic to keep them apart for too long.

Writing all this is making me even madder at Quesada than before. I haven't read Sensational Spider-man #41 yet but from what I've heard exceedingly stupid. Quesada's an idiot.

Oh, and to all of you who think Peter should be with Black Cat because it's a sexier relationship. You're all bad people.:evilangry

[CyberHubbs]

I think the difference between the Lois/Supes and Spidey/MJ relationship is that Peter doesn't need it as much as Superman does. Clark has a human character to him, but it is completely overshadowed by the Big S and that's all people see. Lois adds an aspect of humanity to things.

With Spider-Man, you don't really need that. It might help, of course, since he does have a human identity, but Pete is still Pete with or without the mask.

I'm not fond of the marriage. It had moments that made me smile, but I think it has run its course. It's time for other stories to unfold. This way, she can still be in his life but doing her own thing, rather than cheering him on from the sidelines and bandaging him up afterward. Not sure how I feel about "Jackpot", but I'll reserve judgement until I read a few issues of BND.

[tfresca]

Well it stinks that these decisions are being made in this way. The only way to fix it is for fans to stop buying the books all together.

[Noronha]

I thinks it´s a bet between JoeQ and Bob Harras:
"Which one of us can do the most damage to Spider-Man"!
And JoeQ is taking it awfully serious.

[Taniwha]

Two points. The real problem with that story isn't that they are Norman's kids. It's that Gwen had a sexual relationship with Norman in the first place. It went so against everything we knew about her character that it made one cringe.

Quoted for truth. Amen and all.

[spider_pooka]

Quoted for truth. Amen and all.

ditto. the idea that Gwen would so suddenly find Norman attractive and want to have intimate relations with him is rather stupid and goes against how we know Gwen would act. There's nothing worse than writers assuming readers ability to look past lumpy storylines, particularly when it concerns characters that we know and love behaving out of character , it ruins the illusion if you ask me.

Besides, in my opinion, Spider-man should really be with Felicia Hardy ;)

Oh, and just a quickie -what did people think of Petey's relationship with Kitty Pryde in the Ultimate series? I thought it was really cute and actually quite believable!

love love xxxx

[spider_pooka]

I thinks it´s a bet between JoeQ and Bob Harras:
"Which one of us can do the most damage to Spider-Man"!
And JoeQ is taking it awfully serious.

yup, between recent comic monstrosities and the third installment of the Spider-man films, his image is being dragged through the mud.

perhaps the issue is that there is no real mystery to Spider-man. Everybody knows his story, there are no murky lost years, no abusive child-hood, no enigma. Now, don;t get me wrong, this i why people love him so much. Peter Parker is quintessentially normal, we can all relate. But at the end of the day, how many times can you re-hash that idea without it getting stale?


Let him continue to be Spider-Man and juggle that with having a wife and little toddler. Who cares if he gets older doing this? I mean true the original appeal of Spider-Man was that he was a teen superhero which was a rarity in it. What's remained consistant though is its really about a normal guy gaining superpowers and how it effects his life. He isn't rich. He still has to make a living. Things don't always go right for him but on occassion they which is usually how it is for most people probably. 20 or 30 years later let the kid age a little and maybe even give him a 2nd child. Let the kid start developing powers and Peter have to deal with that.

I quite like this idea, like he said, we're still keeping the raw appeal of our favourite Spider but growing with his readers a little. Starting the story again, like the alternate universe of the Ultimate Spider-man series, gets lots of fans a bit angry (although again I personally enjoy the Ultimate series, especially what they do with the Venom storyline!) and gets a bit old.

I felt Spider-man:India was really interesting for what it was, I enjoyed watching our familiar Spidey interpreted so uniquely (same reasons I enjoyed the 1602 series penned by Gaiman), but again, I couldn't envision that as a series that would last very long rather than the cool one-off that it essentially was.

So the question really is... where should they take Spidey next? What story-lines should they be doing?

The X-Men comics aren't doing much at the moment either, any connection you think?

love love xxxx

[Mister Mets]

ditto. the idea that Gwen would so suddenly find Norman attractive and want to have intimate relations with him is rather stupid and goes against how we know Gwen would act. There's nothing worse than writers assuming readers ability to look past lumpy storylines, particularly when it concerns characters that we know and love behaving out of character , it ruins the illusion if you ask me.

Besides, in my opinion, Spider-man should really be with Felicia Hardy ;)

Oh, and just a quickie -what did people think of Petey's relationship with Kitty Pryde in the Ultimate series? I thought it was really cute and actually quite believable!

love love xxxx
I think Peter's relationship with Kitty Pryde proved that fans can accept a well-written relationship between Peter Parker and someone who isn't Mary Jane Watson (or Gwen Stacy/ Felicia Hardy/ Betty Brant.)

Sins Past probably shouldn't have been done, but technically there was nothing to disprove the notion that Gwen Stacy could have slept with Norman Osborn. We really didn't know her tastes in that regard.

Welcome to the board.

Yeah, right. And, for those of you who aren't a fan of the current Iraq situation, the above quote is analogically the same as saying, "Give it time. George W. won't be President forever. Some day a new president will come along and clean up the Iraq-mess." But the damage done beforehand will have been incalculable.
It's always odd to apply these types of analogies to comic book discussions.

Sometimes "Give it time" works. For example "Give it time. Jimmy Carter won't be president forever. Someone else could stop the Soviet Union."

Let him continue to be Spider-Man and juggle that with having a wife and little toddler. Franklin Richards has been 4 for decades. There's no reason he can't have a toddler for 20 or 30 years in the books.

Who cares if he gets older doing this? I mean true the original appeal of Spider-Man was that he was a teen superhero which was a rarity in it. What's remained consistant though is its really about a normal guy gaining superpowers and how it effects his life. He isn't rich. He still has to make a living. Things don't always go right for him but on occassion they which is usually how it is for most people probably.

20 or 30 years later let the kid age a little and maybe even give him a 2nd child. Let the kid start developing powers and Peter have to deal with that.

They could keep going for another century on stories and not have Peter be to old to operate as Spider-Man.
My problem in this scenario is that I believe the writers will quickly be tempted to shake up the status quo, and the main way to do that when Peter Parker is a happily married father is aging the kid or adding to Peter's family. There's no way in hell they'd wait twenty years to have the kid go from infant to toddler.

The Fantastic Four analogy doesn't work for a few reasons.
1- The Fantastic Four is an ensemble, as what happens to Reed & Sue and their kids isn't as important to the book as what would happen to Peter.
2- The Fantastic Four comes out once a month, while Marvel Universe Spider-Man comics come out a minimum of three times a month. This means that in addition to being a more important character for his book, Peter (and his personal problems) are the focus of more books.
3- Franklin Richards is older than four (or was in the Waid/ Wieringo run.)
4- You can have a Fantastic Four without Reed and Sue. You really can't habe a substitute Spider-Man.

The danger with Spider-Man coming older is that it brings him closer to three things.
1- Death
2- Retirement.
3- A stable and therefore boring status quo.

[Noronha]

Oh, and just a quickie -what did people think of Petey's relationship with Kitty Pryde in the Ultimate series? I thought it was really cute and actually quite believable!

love love xxxx

Thought it was a nice touch,very well written especially Ultimate Annual and it was a breath of fresh air.liked it a lot.
It still has a lot os potential but i just didn´t understand why did Bendis had to put him back with MJ again.
With this constant break up/reconciliation there is a risk of milking dry the stories too soon after all they are only 16 or is it 15 i still don´t know!

[Alan2099]

Let him continue to be Spider-Man and juggle that with having a wife and little toddler. Who cares if he gets older doing this? I mean true the original appeal of Spider-Man was that he was a teen superhero which was a rarity in it. What's remained consistant though is its really about a normal guy gaining superpowers and how it effects his life. He isn't rich. He still has to make a living. Things don't always go right for him but on occassion they which is usually how it is for most people probably. 20 or 30 years later let the kid age a little and maybe even give him a 2nd child. Let the kid start developing powers and Peter have to deal with that.
That seems to take away from the core idea and isolates him more from the readers. While verybody has ben single before and know what that's like, not everybody has had a kid to raise, especially the newer readers that the title needs to attract if it's going to survive in the long term.

[spider_pooka]

I do have to point out that MJ has come in and out of Spidey's life more often than he's had hot dinners, so despite this idea of her being his rock, if you ask me their relationship is one that ultimately never works out. every time there's a chance for happiness, something happens which means MJ leaves the city/country, gets attacked and is presumed dead or just doesn't wanna be with Peter.

On the flipside, MJ's relationship with Peter is the romantic ideal that we allow for our protagonist. The poor guy so rarely gets a break, and she is the thing that makes us feel better as readers knowing that he has someone to go home to (if she is even THERE!). I agree that from a literature point of view, they should totally be together forever and I adore their relationship. She is 'normal' for Peter, sh is everything that is pure and untainted and lovely. But, from a realistic point of view, their relationship is a back-and-forth sham-like affair that would only end in tears.

Blasphemy it may be, but in my opinion, Felicia Hardy would be the one to work out long-term, particularly considering her character development in 'The Evil that Men Do'. After the traumatic death of Gwen Stacy, it would make sense that Pete would most likely seek out a mate who could defend herself more readily, aswell as someone who understands his superhero responsibilities and frustrations completely, his dark side and his fun side. Felicia brings out the feisty, fun-loving Spider. MJ brings out tense, apprehensive Spidey as much as relaxed, loved-up Spider.

Fair play though, they're BOTH hot as hell.

love love xxxx

[Noronha]

I do have to point out that MJ has come in and out of Spidey's life more often than he's had hot dinners, so despite this idea of her being his rock, if you ask me their relationship is one that ultimately never works out. every time there's a chance for happiness, something happens which means MJ leaves the city/country, gets attacked and is presumed dead or just doesn't wanna be with Peter.

Man,don´t use a Mackie storyline to prove a point,they just don´t make sense.

[Blade X]

Here's my 4 cents.

1. I'm all for the marriage being totally wiped out from continuity.

2. Using Mephisto to wipe out the marriage is a STUPID @$$ idea. They should have used a BENEVOLENT mystical/cosmic powered being to get rid of the marriage.

3. Based on details I have heard, JMS original idea/script for OMD was just as bad as the final story that has been published.

4. JMS original idea for SINS PAST was just as equally stupid and sucky as JQ's idea for the story. The story should have been scrapped all together and never have seen the light of day.

[Alan2099]

3. Based on details I have heard, JMS original idea/script for OMD was just as bad as the final story that has been published.
What have you heard?

[Taniwha]

Not to argue your point, Taniwha, but you should know that we get the same anti-marriage vs pro-marriage debates on the Superman Board. So comparing MJ to Lois probably isn't the way to change anyone's mind. :)


SEAN

Well, craphat. Thanks for telling me, Sean.

But at least DC ain't having some donut-vacuum EIC try to MAKE LOIS NEVER EXIST...

[Ramiel]

Well, craphat. Thanks for telling me, Sean.

But at least DC ain't having some donut-vacuum EIC try to MAKE LOIS NEVER EXIST...

Marvel isn't trying to make MJ not exist, she'll still be there

[DDM]

Amazing Spider-Man hasn't been good since about #350. Around 1992, or so.

How can Marvel get their flagship character wrong, time and again?

Good question. I'm not thrilled about Peter's next stage of evolution with the upcoming retcon of epic proportions, but I am likewise not attracted to read any current Spider-Man books either since the dreaded Clone Saga. However, I continue to buy back issues of Amazing Spider-Man & Marvel Team-Up from the 70's & 80's. This is the Peter Parker I know & like to read.

[DDM]

I thinks it´s a bet between JoeQ and Bob Harras:
"Which one of us can do the most damage to Spider-Man"!
And JoeQ is taking it awfully serious.

Joe Quesada has no clue what Spider-Man is about. Since he's Editor-in-Chief, be better get a clue or get out of Dodge. I think it should be the latter.

[Red Lotus]

I think Peter's relationship with Kitty Pryde proved that fans can accept a well-written relationship between Peter Parker and someone who isn't Mary Jane Watson (or Gwen Stacy/ Felicia Hardy/ Betty Brant.)

I really dont care about the relationship. I just dont want them to undo it in a way that changes history and tells readers that years and years didn't happen.

[Noronha]

I think Peter's relationship with Kitty Pryde proved that fans can accept a well-written relationship between Peter Parker and someone who isn't Mary Jane Watson (or Gwen Stacy/ Felicia Hardy/ Betty Brant.)


You can´t compare Peter Parker 15/16 years old(i still don´t know how old is he)to Peter Parker from the main continuity that has 40 years of stories especially since in 20 years of those he´s married.

[Alan2099]

You can´t compare Peter Parker 15/16 years old(i still don´t know how old is he)to Peter Parker from the main continuity that has 40 years of stories especially since in 20 years of those he´s married.

Sure you can. Quite easily too.

[Blade X]

What have you heard?

It's more like a case of what I predicted, and later I found out that I was absolutely right. I posted my theory/guesses about the out come on OMD on another on this forum and on other message boards. At least ONE of my predictions was dead on and in JMS original story. In a nutshell, Peter sales his soul to Mephisto,Mephisto saves Aunt May,Aunt May ends up dying a day later,and Gwen Stacey is resurrected (that was my prediction that was right). I should also point out that this information should be treated as a RUMOR.

[Taniwha]

Sometimes "Give it time" works. For example "Give it time. Jimmy Carter won't be president forever. Someone else could stop the Soviet Union."


The flipside of course is:
"Give it time. That hole in Abraham Lincoln's head could heal right up. He'll be up and presidenting again in a few days."

[Blade X]

Sorry but JMS idea about Peter having super aged kids with Gwen is a horrible idea. Joe didn't improve on it, but it was a bad idea from the beginning and pretty awful from its inception as a plot.

I agree. They replaced one sucky idea with an equally sucky idea.

[rZi]

To hear JMS's thoughts in such a way to me is kinda a bumer. He doesn't sound to me commited and enthusiastic like normal and this is clearly going to effect the quality of the work and thats a real shame.

OMD was ment to be JMS's send off from spidey...to final say everything about the character and i really think quesada is going to regret hijacking this from JMS in years to come, as are fans.

[Taniwha]

Marvel isn't trying to make MJ not exist, she'll still be there

Nope. "Jackpot" will exist. That's not Mary Jane Watson-Parker.

Removing her from 20 years of continuity, removing her as being Spidey's love interest, girlfriend, and wife, is removing The Real Mary Jane.

This idea of JoeyQ's is about as insulting, abortive, and foul as "Iron Man is really teenage Iron Man from another dimension", "These kids were Green Goblin's by Gwen Stacy", "Spidey is a clone", "It wasn't a radioactive spider but a magic spider-god that gave Spidey his powers" and other sacks of nuclear dog crap.

Jesus. OMD is worse than SPIDERMAN YEAR ONE. Remember that sack of maggot-infested pus?

[Sonicjuce]

It's more like a case of what I predicted, and later I found out that I was absolutely right. I posted my theory/guesses about the out come on OMD on another on this forum and on other message boards. At least ONE of my predictions was dead on and in JMS original story. In a nutshell, Peter sales his soul to Mephisto,Mephisto saves Aunt May,Aunt May ends up dying a day later,and Gwen Stacey is resurrected (that was my prediction that was right). I should also point out that this information should be treated as a RUMOR.

Where did you hear what your saying here though? I've never heard anything like this....

[Noronha]

Sure you can. Quite easily too.

So,try to make Peter dump MJ and make him start dating Ms Marvel/Kitty or whoever you want and see if it´ll work.

Even JoeQ was smart enough to not pull something like this.
He choose to use Mephisto instead.

[Sonicjuce]

*sigh*

What's so great about Mary Jane, besides being Spider-man's wife, you ask.

Like her husband she has a will of iron. She's been down a pretty damn bad road in her life. But it's never stopped her from following heart. She works hard for her hopes and dreams to come true. Unfortunatley whenever that happens it doesn't last for long, her relationship with Peter being the exception.

Another is this. You know how other superhero wifes are either trained to be able to fight and/or have superpowers? Mary Jane has none of that and yet she's survived encounters with several of her husbands classic villains one pure wit and will, and a bat in a few cases. In short she doesn't need facy martial arts or superpowers to take care of herself when her husbands not around. Hell, she's saved him at least twice on her own.

Her character evolution throughout the years has been spectacular. From troubled girl covering it all up with a party act to close friend and confidant of several people to a mature and competent woman, who just happens to be married to Spider-man. And she's always had those dreams of acting to a large audience, which she probably never will reach because of her special life.

Then we have her character. It's so versatile for a fictional person. She can be the life of the party one second, then inside joke funny with her friends, then calm and collected. Serious works great with Mary Jane as well. Over the years she's there's been great scenes where she displays anger, sorrow, fear and everything in-between. The point of this is that you basically put her in any situation and she can totally work in it.

Finally we have what some many others before me have mentioned. She is Peter Parker's rock. He's said it more than once. He can be so amazing because of her. That she believes in him is what keeps him going. He fights his hardest everyday just to be able to see her smile. He just flat-out needs her like any other man needs food and water. And you know what? She needs Peter just as much. They're soulmates, best friends, lovers and everything inbetween. Do you think that anyone who didn't really love Peter would stick with him throughout everything MJ's been through? Hell no! She's a fighter and it's going to take more than some fumbass magic to keep them apart for too long.

Writing all this is making me even madder at Quesada than before. I haven't read Sensational Spider-man #41 yet but from what I've heard exceedingly stupid. Quesada's an idiot.

Oh, and to all of you who think Peter should be with Black Cat because it's a sexier relationship. You're all bad people.:evilangry

Whoever started this thread needs to take the time and read this post. I think this sums it up very well and much better then I could have.

[Alan2099]

So,try to make Peter dump MJ and make him start dating Ms Marvel/Kitty or whoever you want and see if it´ll work.
"Dumping" MJ is a bit much, but Spidey dating another super has some possibilities.

[Rix]

I was thinking (and was going to say) the same thing. Very nicely put. I miss MJ already. I'm trying to pick out the point I should've stopped reading so that I could imagine Pete having a good life with MJ. Probably before baby May got killed.

I remember when she was there for Pete when Gwen died. I think that was the moment she grew up in my eyes and I had been pulling for her and Pete just about ever since.

[Celgress]

Really impressed he came out and said this. Very telling. I have no Idea how Joey Q. is going to show his face at conventions again.

I doubt this will bother him, after all the guy comes across as a two bit tin pot dictator with a major superiority complex. He should do just fine.

[edhopper]

I agree. They replaced one sucky idea with an equally sucky idea.

My contention is they replaced a not so good idea with the WORST IDEA IN THE WORLD!!!

[Ramiel]

Nope. "Jackpot" will exist. That's not Mary Jane Watson-Parker.

You can have a super hero persona and a regular identity, just like Spider-Man and Peter Parker. Nah, MJ will still be there just different from before

[Taniwha]

You can have a super hero persona and a regular identity, just like Spider-Man and Peter Parker. Nah, MJ will still be there just different from before

But she won't be Mary Jane Watson PARKER.

She won't be the woman who was Spidey's love, partner, etc., for decades.

Why? Because the 'contract' in this turd of a story states that if Mary Jane tells Peter what she remembers, or if she tries to get back together with him - Aunt May goes to hell.

Meaning, MJ won't be back as "MJ".

Every week, more and more vindicates my decision to stop giving Marvel my money. And no, I'm not reading them online either - I'm just not reading them. Oh, i read spoilers, but that's because I'm curious to watch the train wreck.

[Ramiel]

But she won't be Mary Jane Watson PARKER.

She won't be the woman who was Spidey's love, partner, etc., for decades.

Why? Because the 'contract' in this turd of a story states that if Mary Jane tells Peter what she remembers, or if she tries to get back together with him - Aunt May goes to hell.

Meaning, MJ won't be back as "MJ".

Well, to be fair, she was MJ before marrying Peter.

[DF2506]

I'm actually glad that JMS came out and said OMD wasn't his idea. I was actually starting to worry about him as a writer and was starting to lose a bit of respect for him.......

Hated that too, cause he's one of my favorite writers. I loved Babylon 5 (as an aside, season 3 and 4 are my favorite seasons of B5, but after that is season 5. I liked that season a lot) and I also liked Crusade (and wished TNT hadn't messed that up).

JMS is a really good writer and I hate that Joe Q is forcing him to do this. Its such an awful idea. An awful storyline. Such a cop-out too. Why can't they just have Peter get a divorce like a normal person (not that I want the marriage to go away, I don't, but if they have too...) ?! Whats so wrong with getting a divorce, eh? It doesn't mean the marriage never happened. People in the real world get divorces all the time!

I think when Peter and MJ were split up, instead of them getting back together, they should have just had Peter & MJ get a divorce. Then Peter would be single again, but the marriage still would have happened. And we wouldn't have to put up with this....junk...to put it politely.

I just don't get it...

Anyway, there is a large part of me that actually hopes (against hope) that Joe Q, JMS, and etc have just leaked all this stuff before the final issue so that everybody will believe one thing is going to happen and then something totally different happens....

But I doubt it. You know, if it does turn out like we think it will, well, I just wish they'd skip the last issue and go right to Brand New Day....

It would be really cool to get a suprise though...

DF2506
" Who isn't currently reading OMD but is keeping up with the spoilers. Glad I'm NOT paying for OMD. Not sure yet if I'll pay to read Brand New Day...or if I'll just read spoilers there too..."

[Phil Hunn]

Why? Because the 'contract' in this turd of a story states that if Mary Jane tells Peter what she remembers, or if she tries to get back together with him - Aunt May goes to hell.

And the downside to that would be...?

You want to get rid of someone, Joe, get rid of Aunt May. She's holding the franchise back far more than MJ ever did...

[Alan2099]

Well, to be fair, she was MJ before marrying Peter.

She's also MJ in the movies, cartoons, and other realities, or are those not MJ either?

Her status quo is changing, not her character. At least, not that we know of yet.

[Dr. Hfuhruhurr]

Personally, I think JMS looks like a doofus for coming out and criticizing "One More Day" at this point.

I don't know if anyone remembers, but when the nerd firestorm over "Sins Past" started, JMS came out swinging. He was pretty disdainful and dismissive of any fan criticism. It was only much, much later that he revealed that his original idea was that Peter was the father of Gwen's children, but that Joe Q. shot it down, so he made Norman the father. Whether you liked or didn't like "Sins Past," it seemed to me to be hypocritical for JMS to act all offended over fan criticism at first and then cop out later and claim that it wasn't the story he wanted to tell.

This comment on OMD strikes me the same way. If JMS is really that concerned about honoring his contract and about being "professional," then the best thing to do is say nothing, isn't it? If, on the other hand, the "artist" in him cannot abide a story so dramatically changed from the one he wished to tell, then quit, contract be damned, and face the consequences for your art.

JMS, however, seems to want it both ways and that's what I object to.

In any event, I won't be buying it, so I'm in no position to comment either way. I stopped buying ASM after "Sins Past" and won't be picking it up again for the foreseeable future. It seems to me that this is a very wrongheaded way to go about the supposed problem of a married Spider-man, but Marvel editorial decisions ceased making any sense to me some time ago.

[Will.S]

Personally, I think JMS looks like a doofus for coming out and criticizing "One More Day" at this point.

I don't know if anyone remembers, but when the nerd firestorm over "Sins Past" started, JMS came out swinging. He was pretty disdainful and dismissive of any fan criticism. It was only much, much later that he revealed that his original idea was that Peter was the father of Gwen's children, but that Joe Q. shot it down, so he made Norman the father. Whether you liked or didn't like "Sins Past," it seemed to me to be hypocritical for JMS to act all offended over fan criticism at first and then cop out later and claim that it wasn't the story he wanted to tell.

This comment on OMD strikes me the same way. If JMS is really that concerned about honoring his contract and about being "professional," then the best thing to do is say nothing, isn't it? If, on the other hand, the "artist" in him cannot abide a story so dramatically changed from the one he wished to tell, then quit, contract be damned, and face the consequences for your art.

JMS, however, seems to want it both ways and that's what I object to.

In any event, I won't be buying it, so I'm in no position to comment either way. I stopped buying ASM after "Sins Past" and won't be picking it up again for the foreseeable future. It seems to me that this is a very wrongheaded way to go about the supposed problem of a married Spider-man, but Marvel editorial decisions ceased making any sense to me some time ago.
While I won't disagree with the Sins Past stuff, this don't really strike me as coming out and criticizing OMD.

He's basically publicly answering to fans about the whole deal behind the story and saying that he didn't want to be accredited to it because it wasn't really his. So he's only confirming what some people already caught on to really.

[Dr. Hfuhruhurr]

While I won't disagree with the Sins Past stuff, this don't really strike me as coming out and criticizing OMD.

He's basically publicly answering to fans about the whole deal behind the story and saying that he didn't want to be accredited to it because it wasn't really his. So he's only confirming what some people already caught on to really.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. I think what you are saying is that fandom, or some portion of it, suspected all along that this was not JMS' story, but was Joe Q.'s story.

If so, my criticism of JMS stands. It's a chickenshit way out for him. If his name is on it, as a professional, he should own it. If it's so bad, or so distorted from what he wanted to write, and that offends him as an artist, then quit and don't accept money for the work.

But JMS can't have it both ways IMO. He can't have his name on it as "Writer" and then tell the fans that it's really not his work.

[Harlock]

Why can't they just have Peter get a divorce like a normal person (not that I want the marriage to go away, I don't, but if they have too...) ?! Whats so wrong with getting a divorce, eh? It doesn't mean the marriage never happened. People in the real world get divorces all the time!

My theory on this is that they are being broken up this way specifically because it shows they are still in love. This way, especially since MJ is still around in some fashion, a writer can eventually write about how their love conquers all and they get back together. Again, it's just a theory and I don't have near the venom for Joe Quesada as other people seem to over this storyline. This is just more drama.

[Will.S]

I'm not sure what you're saying here. I think what you are saying is that fandom, or some portion of it, suspected all along that this was not JMS' story, but was Joe Q.'s story.
That's what I was saying, yes.

If so, my criticism of JMS stands. It's a chickenshit way out for him. If his name is on it, as a professional, he should own it. If it's so bad, or so distorted from what he wanted to write, and that offends him as an artist, then quit and don't accept money for the work.

But JMS can't have it both ways IMO. He can't have his name on it as "Writer" and then tell the fans that it's really not his work.You're right in that he should have just disagreed to write the entire thing but he does state that Joe talked him out of wanting his name erased from the last two issues of OMD. It may be a contractual thing or JMS was like: "I'm not agreeing what you're doing with the story but since the damage is done already, lets get it over with".

I think Quesada should have just credited himself for the next two issues or the concept as a whole and left JMS credit for whatever input he had.

[Noronha]

I think Quesada should have just credited himself for the next two issues or the concept as a whole and left JMS credit for whatever input he had.

I know what you mean,like the story "Goblins at the Gate" in which Glenn Greenberg is credited as the writter and Roger Stern as the Co-Ploter.

In this case i think JoeQ´s the only ploter and JMS co-wrote the story

[Geardaddy]

JMS Slams OMD


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"In the current storyline, there's a lot that I don't agree with, and I made this very clear to everybody within shouting distance at Marvel, especially Joe. I'll be honest: there was a point where I made the decision, and told Joe, that I was going to take my name off the last two issues of the OMD arc. Eventually Joe talked me out of that decision because at the end of the day, I don't want to sabotage Joe or Marvel, and I have a lot of respect for both of those." - JMS, in a Usenet post on One More Day.

You can find the full post at http://jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-17697 .

I find this disheartening, as my patience with OMD was based heavily on my twofold belief that A) It was what JMS wanted to tie his run and his plotlines up with, and B) It was a story in his hands, not Quesada's. I've followed enough of JMS's career to trust his ability to resolve and end a story. And I've followed enough of Quesada's not to trust his. So where I previously expected a fourth issue where Peter finds another way, now I expect the obvious ending.

Sigh.

Sorry if it's already been stated (I didn't actually read all 130+ replies), but does anyone else find it a tad ironic that the guy who wrote "Sins Past" and "The Other" found OMD tough to take?

[Dr. Hfuhruhurr]

I think Quesada should have just credited himself for the next two issues or the concept as a whole and left JMS credit for whatever input he had.

That probably would have been the best way to handle it, IMO.

[Karthak]

Sorry if it's already been stated (I didn't actually read all 130+ replies), but does anyone else find it a tad ironic that the guy who wrote "Sins Past" and "The Other" found OMD tough to take?

The parts of "The Other" that JMS wrote weren't that bad, and it wasn't JMS's idea to make Norman the father of the kids in Sins Past.

[Blader5489]

It's more like a case of what I predicted, and later I found out that I was absolutely right. I posted my theory/guesses about the out come on OMD on another on this forum and on other message boards. At least ONE of my predictions was dead on and in JMS original story. In a nutshell, Peter sales his soul to Mephisto,Mephisto saves Aunt May,Aunt May ends up dying a day later,and Gwen Stacey is resurrected (that was my prediction that was right). I should also point out that this information should be treated as a RUMOR.

WTF?! Did you just say your predictions were confirmed by a rumor? :rolleyes:

It is pretty sad that the last three years of JMS' work has essentially been written out from under him. I think Sins Past, The Other, and Back in Black could have all been significantly better than what they turned out to be (due to editorial mandates).

[Venom]

Like i said:
The Other and OMD are selling like there´s no tomorrow,while mini series like Spider-Man-Human Torch and Spider-Girl,FNSM continue to go down.

If it makes you feel any better sales for Amazing Spider-Girl #13 went up. The title usually sells 18,000 or 19,000 on a regular basis in America. #13 sold over 20,000, but maybe that's because of the zombie variant covers that gave it a boost in sales.

[Venom]

In a way, I am glad they weren't Peter's children. I felt it would be odd, given the seeming nature and age of both Gwen and Peter at the time those books were written.

I'm glad Peter wasn't the father. I don't mind them being Norman's however it would've been perfect if they were Harry's. Now that would've been perfect. The classic "girlfriend has an affair with your best friend scenario". And Harry and Gwen were very close childhood friends, so it would've worked much better.

[longshot7]

no, I'm done with Spider-Man after this arc.

Vote with your dollars (or lack thereof) - it's the only complaint that you can make that will definitely be heard.

[Harlock]

no, I'm done with Spider-Man after this arc.

Vote with your dollars (or lack thereof) - it's the only complaint that you can make that will definitely be heard.

I'm still baffled by this theory. Many folks are going to finish the arc and already know it is so bad they are not buying anything afterward. Wouldn't it make more sense to not support this arc and then support any subsequent good ones?

[snoopafly]

I'm still baffled by this theory. Many folks are going to finish the arc and already know it is so bad they are not buying anything afterward. Wouldn't it make more sense to not support this arc and then support any subsequent good ones?


maybe because we want to be optimistic and would like to believe that Quesada is pulling a fast one on all of us by creating a frenzy just because he can. highly unlikely..but i'd still like to hope its true :)

[Noronha]

"Dumping" MJ is a bit much, but Spidey dating another super has some possibilities.

Yeah but the reason it worked on Ultimate is that he´s only 15/16(still don´t know) and isn´t married to MJ and hasn´t been for the past 20 years.The story between them isn´t a big as the story they share in 616.
He was dating her and actually had a very good reason to dump her and Bendis actually knows how to write-Ultimate Spider-Man Annual was brilliant.

I honestly believe it wouldn´t work because it´s impossible to make it believable,unless of course you use the devil

[jeffgamer]

maybe because we want to be optimistic and would like to believe that Quesada is pulling a fast one on all of us by creating a frenzy just because he can. highly unlikely..but i'd still like to hope its true :)

Not only that, but also, we're buying what may well be the last comic book that takes place in the continuity we care about and are committed to. Remember, in OMD, they are still married, and history is still intact. If OMD erases all that, we walk.

[Taniwha]

And the downside to that would be...?

You want to get rid of someone, Joe, get rid of Aunt May. She's holding the franchise back far more than MJ ever did...

The downside is, who could like MJ if she knowingly sent May to hell for eternity? She'd be selfish.

JoeyQ just set it up so she can't CAN'T CAN'T come back to Peter. It's a sabotage, basically, to tell the readers "You want MJ back? Then on the way back, she'll devastate the comic further. Deal."

[Taniwha]

I think Sins Past, The Other, and Back in Black could have all been significantly better than what they turned out to be (due to editorial mandates).

They certainly couldn't be worse. Unless they were drawn by Liefeld or photocopied, er, drawn by Greg Land.

[DaeJi]

JoeyQ just set it up so she can't CAN'T CAN'T come back to Peter. It's a sabotage, basically, to tell the readers "You want MJ back? Then on the way back, she'll devastate the comic further. Deal."

Yeah, it does feel a bit like that. Which is why I won't buy Spider-Man anymore, not even TPBs, if this is true. Not until they reverse it.

[brett tolino]

Nope, not buying it and not out of spite either because I'd really be hurting myself if that were the case. Besides, any story told tomorrow will be undone shortly after so why bother reading it in the first place?

I won't be buying it because honestly, the stories have just become too over the top silly.

As readers, we suspend our levels of belief to enjoy comics but lately, the stuff they've been publishing has just been insulting to a reader's intelligence. Even bad fan fic wouldn't go as far as Joe Q has gone on Spider Man.

Gwen Stacy had kids by who? Someone, whether Spider Man or Mary Jane is making a deal with the devil? How stupid is that? Everyone knows he who deals with the devil loses. He's the prince of lies, why would you believe anything that comes out of his mouth?

This story defies all common sense and logic.

And he's going to give up Mary Jane for Aunt May? Aunt May who has died and come back how many times? Forget putting May out of her misery, forget putting readers out of their misery... let her die so Peter can be out of his misery!

How many times does this poor stupid sucker have to watch her die and come back?

The stories under Joe Q's watch have made most of Marvel's characters anything but heroes. But I draw the line at stupid and Joe Q has transformed Spider Man into Stupid Man.

And I don't need to pay 2.99 to read about stupid people.

Joe Q's One More Day was clearly inspired by the title of Mitch Album's novel, For One More Day.

But without the class, intelligence or heart.

Album's work inspires a person never to give up, no matter how bleak things can appear while Joe Q's One More Day inspires stupidity... and when everything else fails, there's always The Devil.

So no, I cannot pay One More Penny on a comic that depicts its characters as stupid. I'd be just as stupid if I did and a fool and his money are soon parted.

My Brand New Day will now mean days without brand new Spider Man comics. At least while Joe Q is on the watch.

What is he watching anyway? Well, maybe if he took his head out of his big, egomaniacal @$$, he'd stop seeing shit as gold.

[Megagents]

Mary Jane is awesome and she's Peter's love interest.

[Brian M.]

She gives anal on Peter's birthday.

[Jack Flash]

Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane!

[founder81]

The downside is, who could like MJ if she knowingly sent May to hell for eternity? She'd be selfish.

JoeyQ just set it up so she can't CAN'T CAN'T come back to Peter. It's a sabotage, basically, to tell the readers "You want MJ back? Then on the way back, she'll devastate the comic further. Deal."

Not really, it would be easy to undo. Someone like Dr Strange, Thor, or the Avengers as a whole have had past experience with Spider-man and would very likely help his wife.

[Agent Helix]

It's not that Mary Jane is so great, it's that this story is so, so, SO stupid.

[Ramiel]

She gives anal on Peter's birthday.

Ah, one the greatest gifts a man could receive on his birthday...or any other day really:)

[Venom]

She gives anal on Peter's birthday.

Mary Jane: Happy Birthday Tiger.

Peter: Thanks MJ. Now bend over so I can F$%k your fine ass!

[Ramiel]

Mary Jane: Happy Birthday Tiger.

Peter: Thanks MJ. Now bend over so I can F$%k your fine ass!

I'm thinking it'd be more like this:

Peter: Welp, it's another birthd-

Mary Jane: F$%k my ass, NOW!

[Venom]

I'm thinking it'd be more like this:

Peter: Welp, it's another birthd-

Mary Jane: F$%k my ass, NOW!

LMAS. Now that IS funny.

[philly]

Nope, not buying it and not out of spite either because I'd really be hurting myself if that were the case. Besides, any story told tomorrow will be undone shortly after so why bother reading it in the first place?

I won't be buying it because honestly, the stories have just become too over the top silly.

As readers, we suspend our levels of belief to enjoy comics but lately, the stuff they've been publishing has just been insulting to a reader's intelligence. Even bad fan fic wouldn't go as far as Joe Q has gone on Spider Man.

Gwen Stacy had kids by who? Someone, whether Spider Man or Mary Jane is making a deal with the devil? How stupid is that? Everyone knows he who deals with the devil loses. He's the prince of lies, why would you believe anything that comes out of his mouth?

This story defies all common sense and logic.

And he's going to give up Mary Jane for Aunt May? Aunt May who has died and come back how many times? Forget putting May out of her misery, forget putting readers out of their misery... let her die so Peter can be out of his misery!

How many times does this poor stupid sucker have to watch her die and come back?

The stories under Joe Q's watch have made most of Marvel's characters anything but heroes. But I draw the line at stupid and Joe Q has transformed Spider Man into Stupid Man.

And I don't need to pay 2.99 to read about stupid people.

Joe Q's One More Day was clearly inspired by the title of Mitch Album's novel, For One More Day.

But without the class, intelligence or heart.

Album's work inspires a person never to give up, no matter how bleak things can appear while Joe Q's One More Day inspires stupidity... and when everything else fails, there's always The Devil.

So no, I cannot pay One More Penny on a comic that depicts its characters as stupid. I'd be just as stupid if I did and a fool and his money are soon parted.

My Brand New Day will now mean days without brand new Spider Man comics. At least while Joe Q is on the watch.

What is he watching anyway? Well, maybe if he took his head out of his big, egomaniacal @$$, he'd stop seeing shit as gold.

Great post.

[Cayman]

After seeing these previews, I will definitely pick it up.

[perivam3]

Now I'm not a very outspoken guy. Hell, I'm a member of at least a dozen forums and have made not a post in one of them. This whole OMD/BND thing has really gotten me riled up though. I had originally planned on writing up a big rant on here, but that's not going to do any good. All the relevant points have already been made: Joe Q's reign on Spidey needs to end, the marriage needs to remain, this massive retcon is ridiculous, etc. No, I think what we need is a way for us Pro-marriage fans to speak out and show our support for the way Spidey should be.

Just not buying the issues anymore won't be enough. Sure, it could cost a dip in sales, but there's also the chance that enough new fans will climb aboard to even it out. Even if that didn't happen, we all know that every conceivable excuse will be used to explain the dip in sales before they even consider erasing their retcon. What we need to do is organize ourselves into a campaign to show our support for the marriage. It's happened plenty of times before; a massive group of fans showing support for a TV show, movie, or what have you and bringing about change.

I don't think a petition will do it. Those have become so commonplace that their are websites devoted to them. It's pretty much gotten to the point where if you don't like something, you could find an online petition to sign in seconds. And a normal letter writing campaign would just be glossed over. I'm sure Marvel gets tons of mail daily from fans angry about some change they've made to their favortie characters. I think we should borrow a page from the book of the Jericho fans. Remember what they did? They sent in tons and tons of peanuts to the studio to prevent the show from being cancelled. And they succeeded, at least initially. We should try the same thing, but instead of peanuts, we send in our RSVPs. That's right, we send in our RSVPs to wedding of Peter Parker and Mary Jane Watson.

All we'd need to do is agree upon one standard form of an RSVP, what with the elegant writing, trim, and maybe even a picture of the marriage. We then leave a spot for a signature. We print 'em out, sign 'em, and send 'em to Marvel. We could even print out extras to pass out at our individual comic stores, schools, workplaces, and whatever, so those not frequenting the net could join us. We wouldn't have to include anything else in the envelope, just the one page RSVP. It's a subtle, unique way to show our support for the marriage. There's no ranting against Joe Q, no insults, no threats, just one simple message. The rest of that could be dealt with later...

And we could even toss in a bit of humor by adding boxes to check for chicken or fish.

So what do you all think? Am I just a crazed Spidey fanatic? Or does this sound like a viable way to show our support for one the best marriages in comics? Is it maybe too goofy? Any other suggestions out there? Perhaps if this one doesn't work out, we can find another avenue. I just think we should make our voices be heard, rather than just venting our frustrations.

[Blader5489]

They're just comics, you know?

[Harlock]

I prefer filet mignon. I say go for it if you feel that strongly about it.

[Alan2099]

So what do you all think? Am I just a crazed Spidey fanatic?
Yes
Or does this sound like a viable way to show our support for one the best marriages in comics?
No
Is it maybe too goofy?
Goofy isn't the word I'd use, but yes.

[Noronha]

I´m sorry but i have to agree with Harlock and Alan.
I´m against all of what´s being done,but it is only a comic so i´ll just stop reading it.

[philly]

If you want to make a difference, don't support BND, watch how fast Joe Q changes his tune about the marriage.

[Cayman]

If you want to make a difference, don't support BND, watch how fast Joe Q changes his tune about the marriage.

Wouldn't not reading the book be a good demonstration that he doesn't support it? :confused:

[Noronha]

If you want to make a difference, don't support BND, watch how fast Joe Q changes his tune about the marriage.

I´m going to stop reaing it,so i won´t support it.
There´s nothing more i will do.
I´m not going to stop because i´m angry at JoeQ,i´m doing it because honestly this BND doesn´t appeal to me i don´t think that there is something in it that attracts or interests me.
Of course this happened because of the crap that is OMD.

I always make this analogy.
I never bought a Superman issue beause nothing in it appeals or interests me,the things that are commonly known:
-Takes if glasses no one knows who he is
-Coming from another planet
-Using panties outside his costume.

This applies itself to BND:
-Peter single
-MJ with powers
-Freelancing again in the bugle
-Dating problems/rent problems.
It´s a status that i don´t think it´s worth reading.

[Alan2099]

I´m sorry but i have to agree with Harlock and Alan.
Wow. We actually agree on something about the marriage.

... I'm afraid.

[Noronha]

Wow. We actually agree on something about the marriage.

... I'm afraid.

Not as i was when i wrote it.

I come here and rant and whined because it entertains me,it´s something that i like because all in all for you guys to be here it´s because you like spidey as much(or even more)as i do.
And because none of my friends/family read.
And my girlfriend threatens to dump everytime i talk about it

Imagine me and her starting to heat up things and all of a sudden i start:
"Why in hell is JoeQ ending the marrige??Why?Why Mephisto?Why?":rolleyes:

[Sonicjuce]

And my girlfriend threatens to dump everytime i talk about it

I'd say you need a new Girlfriend. Brake up with you just for talking about Spider-Man? That seems a little harsh. I remember when I told my girlfriend I read comics. She thought I was the biggest dork, but gradually she came to love it about me. I am a dork and she accepts that. Now I am not saying I sit and talk about Spider-Man with her; like you I am on here because I don't have anyone to talk to about comics. However, if I were to bring it up she would talk to me. I even got her reading ASM and USM. I didn't let her read anything pre-Civil War. She does, however, love ASM now. She also endors my rants about them doing away with the marraige because she actually agrees it is rediculous.

Now I know that was nothing to do with this topic, but that comment sparked a thought.

[Harlock]

I´m sorry but i have to agree with Harlock and Alan.
I´m against all of what´s being done,but it is only a comic so i´ll just stop reading it.

Reading is FUNdamental. I am pretty sure you didn't agree with me.

[The Confessor]

Well, for what it's worth, I actually thought perivam3's idea was a pretty good one. Sure, it's a bit 'out there' in terms of over-reaction (these are only comics after all) but it’s a sound and very pro-active idea nonetheless.

I don't know, I guess the thought of mobilising legions of disgruntled Pro-marriage fans to pull off this protest holds a certain romance for me. It's the communist revolutionary in me I guess. :o

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/8664/communismpartyva3.jpg

[Cayman]

Supporting the marriage is anti-Democracy! :eek:

[Ramiel]

I'd say you need a new Girlfriend. Brake up with you just for talking about Spider-Man? That seems a little harsh. I remember when I told my girlfriend I read comics. She thought I was the biggest dork, but gradually she came to love it about me. I am a dork and she accepts that. Now I am not saying I sit and talk about Spider-Man with her; like you I am on here because I don't have anyone to talk to about comics. However, if I were to bring it up she would talk to me. I even got her reading ASM and USM. I didn't let her read anything pre-Civil War. She does, however, love ASM now. She also endors my rants about them doing away with the marraige because she actually agrees it is rediculous.

Now I know that was nothing to do with this topic, but that comment sparked a thought.

Really, well, the only reason I got to date one of my exs was because of comics. Oh, bless your soul, dear Emily The Strange. Actually, curse you Emily, that relationship was shot-lived and overall sucked.

What was this topic about, something about mailing stuff to Marvel that says to stop killing marriages, yeah, I'm sure Marvel will give a crap. In fact, they probably will, more paper to recycle and make comics from

[Fatguy]

I'd say you need a new Girlfriend. Brake up with you just for talking about Spider-Man? That seems a little harsh. I remember when I told my girlfriend I read comics. She thought I was the biggest dork, but gradually she came to love it about me. I am a dork and she accepts that. Now I am not saying I sit and talk about Spider-Man with her; like you I am on here because I don't have anyone to talk to about comics. However, if I were to bring it up she would talk to me. I even got her reading ASM and USM. I didn't let her read anything pre-Civil War. She does, however, love ASM now. She also endors my rants about them doing away with the marraige because she actually agrees it is rediculous.

Now I know that was nothing to do with this topic, but that comment sparked a thought.

lol I'm fairly certain he was over-exaggerating/joking about the whole dumping him if he talks about Spider-Man...

[Noronha]

I'd say you need a new Girlfriend. Brake up with you just for talking about Spider-Man? That seems a little harsh. I remember when I told my girlfriend I read comics. She thought I was the biggest dork, but gradually she came to love it about me. I am a dork and she accepts that. Now I am not saying I sit and talk about Spider-Man with her; like you I am on here because I don't have anyone to talk to about comics. However, if I were to bring it up she would talk to me. I even got her reading ASM and USM. I didn't let her read anything pre-Civil War. She does, however, love ASM now. She also endors my rants about them doing away with the marraige because she actually agrees it is rediculous.

Now I know that was nothing to do with this topic, but that comment sparked a thought.

I can pretty be annoying with it.
And i was joking about dumping me part,she likes that about me actually i think i used it when i 1st met her i don´t remember(it was a long time ago).
I couldn´t convince mine to read, be she did liked Spider Man 1/2/3.
But you should´ve seen when i tried to explain who was Gwen Stacy and Norman and Harry Osborn´s stories.
It´s a lot more difficult than one could think

[Noronha]

Reading is FUNdamental. I am pretty sure you didn't agree with me.

Ooops my mistake

[Sean Whitmore]

Wait, Joe Quesada canceled Jericho?

I liked that show.


SEAN

[jeffgamer]

Here's the link...

http://weblogs.variety.com/bags_and_boards/2007/12/crossing-the--2.html

And here's the text...

December 07, 2007
Crossing the Line 3 — Spider-Man: One More Day

Books and creators: The Amazing Spider-Man #544, Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man #24, Sensational Spider-Man #41; written by J. Michael Straczynski, art by Joe Quesada and Danny Miki
Marvel, color, 48 pages, $3.99 each.

So? Of all the A-list franchises in comics, Spider-Man has had probably the least success with the line-wide crossover saga. That’s at least partly due to the number of books the web-slinger usually stars in, which are usually fairly tight in terms of continuity and lessening the need for a true crossover event.

But there are times when Marvel needs or wants to draw attention to Spider-Man, and that’s about as good an explanation as you’re likely ever going to find for “One More Day.” Hyped as a major turning point in the lives of Peter and Mary Jane, this turns to be exactly what fans have expected all along: A way for Marvel to “erase” their marriage so Peter Parker can go back to being a single geek for whom girls are nothing but trouble. Marvel’s editor in chief, Joe Quesada, has been vocal about how the two characters’ marriage 20 years ago (yipes!) undermined what he thinks was a key part of Peter Parker’s original appeal.

With this kind of rationale for its existence, it’s almost impossible to judge this story on its own creative merits. Quesada is undeniably a talented penciller, and the script from the departing J. Michael Straczynski tries very hard to execute a concept that’s a hugely difficult pill to swallow in just about every way.

The third part of this four-part story, in Sensational Spider-Man #41, has Peter and MJ encountering Mephisto — Marvel’s version of Satan, Lucifer, etc. — who offers to save the life of Aunt May, who is certain to die after being mistakenly shot by a sniper who was trying to kill Peter, in exchange for their marriage. The idea is they’ll forget they were even married, except for a small part deep down in their souls that will despair at the loss, and it’s that part that will satisfy Mephisto.

Aside from Mephisto not being the type of villain that works in Spider-Man stories, this strains credulity and raises more questions than it answers about how Marvel intends to go forward with the character and his place in the entire Marvel Universe. Given that everyone in the Marvel Universe knows Peter is Spider-Man after he unmasked in Civil War #2 and that he’s married to Mary Jane, any sort of “mindwipe” affecting the entire universe is just plain unbelievable. It’s not clear if MJ will still be around at all, or if she and Peter will be adults or go back to being teenagers or if they’ll still be dating at all. What are they going to remember about the last few years of their lives? If the unmasking is undone at the same time, how does that affect every book that was tied into Civil War? Even the stated of goal, of having Peter go back to worrying about girls, is strange and seems unlikely to work unless you take him back to high school age. A single adult who works as a teacher, photographer or scientist and can’t get a date is far less sympathetic than a geeky teen who can’t get the girls at school to notice him.

The motive here also is hard to figure out, as the “classic” conditions this series is trying to restore already exist in the very popular Ultimate Spider-Man series, and already does a far better job of playing with them than the new, three-times-a-month Amazing Spider-Man series likely will. Why not just have multiple versions of the character for different audiences, and let people read the one they like? De-emphasize MJ if you like, but for anyone who’s been reading and liking the book for the last few years, this is going to be a majorly difficult pill to swallow, with seemingly very little potential gain. The sooner this is over, the better — a sentiment sure to be shared by comic shop owners who’ve endured delays as this weekly series has turned at least monthly and left them with a fraction of the usual number of new Spider-Man comics to sell. Grade: D

[jeffgamer]

Oh, and here's my reply that I sent to them this evening:


This storyline is reviled by MANY readers. If Marvel really does erase the marriage and it's history/continuity, MANY readers have already announced their plans to stop reading Amazing Spider-man, while others plan to go further and to stop reading Marvel comics in general. Surveys on Newsarama.com and Marvel.com have shown a 2-to-1 vote in favor of keeping the marriage; other surveys have shown a 50/50 split of people who plan to remain readers versus stop reading. Quesada has been booed at conventions because of this issue. Even the writer of the One More Day storyline, J. Michael Straczynski, went on record last week saying he had wanted to have his name removed from the last two issues of the arc because he felt so strongly against the way Mr. Quesada planned to end the storyline. It is hard to understand the brass hubris of an editor who, knowing full well how the readers feel about an issue, decides to forge ahead with his plans anyway simply because he has his own vision of the characters, history and continuity and fan opinion be damned. Me, personally, I've been reading Spider-man's books loyally for 34 years, and if the marriage is erased at the end of One More Day, I am saying goodbye to Marvel Comics. While they keep on saying that the next stories will be good and we should give the next creative teams a chance, I have no intention of continuing to read...the next stories could have been equally as good with the retention of the marriage and continuity, and, as far as I'm concerned, this will not be the same Spider-man as the one to whom I was committed for all those decades.

Thank you for your very appropriate opinions in your article and for not simply doing a promotional puff piece. The fact that you wrote an article/review that reflects the apparent majority opinion of the readership is very much appreciated.

[Cayman]

I thought it was going to be a real Variety review, not some guy with a blog's opinion. Lame.

[Alan2099]

In related news, people on the internet continue to complain about things.

[Michael P]

We could always bake a cake with the cover of Amazing Annual 21 on it. Your choice as to whether Peter's in the Spidey suit or a tux.

[DaeJi]

You know, it's not even ending the marriage that is going to stop me buying Spider-Man, it's completely horrid way they are going about it. I haven't seen fanfiction this bad, hell, I haven't seem Fox programming this bad! "Superboy punch" was a better idea; for now on I'm saying "OMD deal."

[Michael P]

I haven't seen fanfiction this bad, hell, I haven't seem Fox programming this bad!

I have. But then, I watched Herman's Head religiously and spent a year in the MSTing community in college.

[DaeJi]

Hey, I'm all for pointless crusades with meaningless tactics that won't do a damn thing until an editor with the same feelings comes along and makes that ranted about change that he was going to make anyway....

I'm done.

[DaeJi]

I have. But then, I watched Herman's Head religiously and spent a year in the MSTing community in college.

You have truly seen the face of Hell my friend.

[Dr. K]

Hey, I'm all for pointless crusades with meaningless tactics that won't do a damn thing until an editor with the same feelings comes along and makes that ranted about change that he was going to make anyway....

Tell that to Hal Jordan's fans. :)

[Sean Whitmore]

Tell that to Hal Jordan's fans. :)

Hal Jordan's fans went on a pointless crusade with meaningless tactics that didn't do a damn thing until a writer with the same feelings came along and made the ranted-about change that he was going to make anyway.

So DaeJi kinda nailed it.


SEAN

[DaeJi]

Tell that to Hal Jordan's fans. :)

I was. The moment Dan Didio and Geoff Johns came along, guys who wanted the exact same thing H.E.A.T. wanted, Hal came back. If sales don't hurt, editors and publishers are more inclined to ignore fan protest. It's only when the right people are in place that things happen.

[Alan2099]

I think the last thing anybody needs is another H.E.A.T.

In fact, we didn't need the first one.

[jwd]

There's only 2 things that have to happen for the marriage to return if its erased in the first place.

1. Sales have to drop a lot.

2. An editor or whoever is put in charge has to want the marriage to exist.

By the time either of these come to pass I'll of moved on from the Spider-Man comics and not care anymore.

[Brickbatstone]

they are doing away with the marriage? didnt they do that already? back with the relaunched amazing spider-man and peter parker spider-man series? something about killing MJ when her plane crashed....wasnt reading comics back then. if it didnt work then what makes them think it'll work again

[Fatguy]

Wait, Joe Quesada canceled Jericho?

I liked that show.


SEAN

No, but he single handedly brought about the writer's strike, causing everybody to not be able to watch new episodes of their favorite shows.

[Mister Mets]

I thought it was a poor review.

Crossing the Line 3 — Spider-Man: One More Day

Asm544 Books and creators: The Amazing Spider-Man #544, Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man #24, Sensational Spider-Man #41; written by J. Michael Straczynski, art by Joe Quesada and Danny Miki

Marvel, color, 48 pages, $3.99 each.

So? Of all the A-list franchises in comics, Spider-Man has had probably the least success with the line-wide crossover saga. That’s at least partly due to the number of books the web-slinger usually stars in, which are usually fairly tight in terms of continuity and lessening the need for a true crossover event.

But there are times when Marvel needs or wants to draw attention to Spider-Man, and that’s about as good an explanation as you’re likely ever going to find for “One More Day.” Hyped as a major turning point in the lives of Peter and Mary Jane, this turns to be exactly what fans have expected all along: A way for Marvel to “erase” their marriage so Peter Parker can go back to being a single geek for whom girls are nothing but trouble. Marvel’s editor in chief, Joe Quesada, has been vocal about how the two characters’ marriage 20 years ago (yipes!) undermined what he thinks was a key part of Peter Parker’s original appeal.

Fnsm24 With this kind of rationale for its existence, it’s almost impossible to judge this story on its own creative merits. Quesada is undeniably a talented penciller, and the script from the departing J. Michael Straczynski tries very hard to execute a concept that’s a hugely difficult pill to swallow in just about every way.

The third part of this four-part story, in Sensational Spider-Man #41, has Peter and MJ encountering Mephisto — Marvel’s version of Satan, Lucifer, etc. — who offers to save the life of Aunt May, who is certain to die after being mistakenly shot by a sniper who was trying to kill Peter, in exchange for their marriage. The idea is they’ll forget they were even married, except for a small part deep down in their souls that will despair at the loss, and it’s that part that will satisfy Mephisto.

Ssm41 Aside from Mephisto not being the type of villain that works in Spider-Man stories, this strains credulity and raises more questions than it answers about how Marvel intends to go forward with the character and his place in the entire Marvel Universe. Given that everyone in the Marvel Universe knows Peter is Spider-Man after he unmasked in Civil War #2 and that he’s married to Mary Jane, any sort of “mindwipe” affecting the entire universe is just plain unbelievable. It’s not clear if MJ will still be around at all, or if she and Peter will be adults or go back to being teenagers or if they’ll still be dating at all. What are they going to remember about the last few years of their lives? If the unmasking is undone at the same time, how does that affect every book that was tied into Civil War? Even the stated of goal, of having Peter go back to worrying about girls, is strange and seems unlikely to work unless you take him back to high school age. A single adult who works as a teacher, photographer or scientist and can’t get a date is far less sympathetic than a geeky teen who can’t get the girls at school to notice him.

The motive here also is hard to figure out, as the “classic” conditions this series is trying to restore already exist in the very popular Ultimate Spider-Man series, and already does a far better job of playing with them than the new, three-times-a-month Amazing Spider-Man series likely will. Why not just have multiple versions of the character for different audiences, and let people read the one they like? De-emphasize MJ if you like, but for anyone who’s been reading and liking the book for the last few years, this is going to be a majorly difficult pill to swallow, with seemingly very little potential gain. The sooner this is over, the better — a sentiment sure to be shared by comic shop owners who’ve endured delays as this weekly series has turned at least monthly and left them with a fraction of the usual number of new Spider-Man comics to sell. Grade: D
At least the guy admits that the story is difficult to review on its own merits. But this review still strikes me as poorly written.

The penultimate paragraph for example has the guy complaining about what the book will be like post-"One More Day" and he makes a few predictions that have yet to be supported.

1- That a single Peter Parker will be consistently portrayed as loser.

2- That the writers will find no suitable way to r