OMD: Let's whine about it! - MEGATHREAD!

[Tobias Drake]

I don't agree that making Peter look older is automatically a wrong direction to go. Trying to make him look younger is a pointless endeavour (you cannot age backwards), and having him frozen in place becomes stagnant and old eventually. Things have to change from time to time.

The kids wouldn't "limit" the writers in what they can address, they would open up as many storytelling options as they close, if not more. It would be a shift of gears that would affect the dynamic of the story, but it wouldn't just close off possibilities with no gain; by the same logic, NOT having the kids also "limits" the writers in terms of stories the can address.

There are always limits. DareDevil is blind. Does this limit him unjustly because he can't have stories about visiting the eye doctor? No. It's just the way he is.

SIDENOTE: If DareDevil visiting the eye doctor was written by Bendis, I'd read it. :P

[Alan2099]

Trying to make him look younger is a pointless endeavour (you cannot age backwards),
It worked for Aunt May. She's no longer writter or drawn nearly as old and feeble as she used to be. She's got a lot more energy and spunk and (dare I say it) youth than she used to have.

[Tobias Drake]

It worked for Aunt May. She's no longer writter or drawn nearly as old and feeble as she used to be. She's got a lot more energy and spunk and (dare I say it) youth than she used to have.

She got her second wind. :p

[philly]

While having kids is the next logical step and shakes up the status quo, what do you do afterwards.

As for the kids being Peter's, that would encourage a bad Fox News story (Spider-Man has bastards kids!) and make Peter look older (as the father who appear to be kids) while limiting writers in terms of the stories they can address.

Sorry but that explanation does not fly at all. If you have a good writer who knows what he or she is doing, they can write anything. The excuse on how hard it is to write about a married Spidey only shows laziness on the part of the writers and the editors involved and judging by how bad “One More Day” is turning out, it proves even more that it’s the writers fault for how bad the Spiderman stories have been in the last few years, not the marriage.

[Alan2099]

Sorry but that explanation does not fly at all. If you have a good writer who knows what he or she is doing, they can write anything. The excuse on how hard it is to write about a married Spidey only shows laziness on the part of the writers and the editors involved and judging by how bad “One More Day” is turning out, it proves even more that it’s the writers fault for how bad the Spiderman stories have been in the last few years, not the marriage.

And if you have good writers they can take these "lazy" ideas and really make them excellent. :p

[ivesaidway2much]

And if you have good writers they can take these "lazy" ideas and really make them excellent. :pWhat is a lazy idea?

[philly]

And if you have good writers they can take these "lazy" ideas and really make them excellent. :p


Sorry but that does not fly as well, especially when they are trying to erase 20 years worth of continuity in order to try to make their "lazy" ideas work.

[Mister Mets]

Sorry but that explanation does not fly at all. If you have a good writer who knows what he or she is doing, they can write anything. The excuse on how hard it is to write about a married Spidey only shows laziness on the part of the writers and the editors involved and judging by how bad “One More Day” is turning out, it proves even more that it’s the writers fault for how bad the Spiderman stories have been in the last few years, not the marriage.
The comment you're quoting was solely on the subject of making Gabriel & Sarah Stacy Peter's kids.

No matter how well the story is done, there's still the potential for bad publicity. And it'll be almost impossible to do anything with the stories, given the stuff you just can't address (IE- romance) without freaking people out, thanks to the advanced aging.

[Shade 20x6]

Isn't it funny how two average Joes (so to speak) have arguably done more damage to Spider-Man than any supervillain ever could?

It worked for Aunt May. She's no longer writter or drawn nearly as old and feeble as she used to be. She's got a lot more energy and spunk and (dare I say it) youth than she used to have.

And it appears that that's all about to be undone.

[Alan2099]

Sorry but that does not fly as well, especially when they are trying to erase 20 years worth of continuity in order to try to make their "lazy" ideas work.

Whoever said they were erasing it? I thought one of the points was that MJ fully remembered how things used to be. That flies just as well as anything else.

The only reason that doesn't fly with you is because you don't like it. It has nothing to do with the stories potential. Just come on out and admit it.

[Noronha]

Weather JMS was unprofissional or not(i personally think he wasn´t) the truth is:

OMD is awful and a disaster.
-3 issues out and each is worse than it´s predecessor.
-1 issue left and it´s own writer doesn´t want his name associated with.
I mean how bad can it be when the guy that´s writing it(under direct orders)goes public saying the story is so bad that wants to make sure everyone knows who´s idea was?
-The story has to be pretty bad when it´s main idea is the same one that when brought up during the other disaster known as the clone saga was promptly rejected and even parioed.What?That´s right the same guys that brought us the clone mess made fun of it.And now JoeQ is going to use it!

BND?
I remember when the reboot and that fantastic story arc Gathering of the 5/Final Chapter was being promoted,the similarities with BND are remarkable.

They were saying it´s Spider-Man back at his wise cracking best,back to what made him the most loved hero around,fresh new characters and supporting cast bla bla bla.
Well give me the reboot any time,at least it was only spidey having one of his"i´m done being spider man",Not some magic warp kind of thing made by a deal with the devil.Oh at it didn´t erase 20 years of continuity.
Man this is so bad that i´m actually defending the reboot!
It worked out so well didn´t it?

People who ignore past mistakes are destined to repeat them.

[KWillyVox]

Doctor Strange casts some mamma jamma vodoo over Aunt May's comatose body. Peter has mere moments with Aunt May in astral form.

AUNT MAY: Peter...where are we? Am i dying?
PETER: We don't have time for this Aunt May. I need some advice. I'm thinking about saving your life by dealing with the devil...
AUNT MAY Oh give it a rest Peter. It's been almost 20 years since i've seen your Uncle Ben....doncha think it's time we move along here. And if you think making any sort of deal with Mephisto is a good idea, then you've not learned a damn thing that i've taught you. Now go tap that Red Head.

[edhopper]

Let's be clear, the idea of introducing the kids, aged or not, in Sins Pasts wasn't that good of an idea. Making them Peter's kids though, would fit in with the history of Spider-man. The decision to make them the result of an affair between Norman and Gwen was (as Kieth Oberman would say) 'The Worst Idea In The World!!" It was so incongruous with everything any reader has known or felt about Gwen that it turned stomachs. This was the monster of all bad ideas. It was that aspect of the story that was all Joe Q's. And he rightfully deserves the blame. Just as he does now for OMD.
Sins past might have started as a not so good idea, but until OMD it rivaled the Clone Saga for worse Spider-man stories.

[Taniwha]

Take out the part about "super-aged" and it works for me.

Agreed. The idea of Peter and Gwen being in an adult physical relationship right before she went to Europe, where she had their kids secretly out of shame because they weren't married? Not entirely unheard-of, if a bit soap-opera... and perhaps a bit outdated. It seems more like something out of a Merchant-Ivory film. Prithee, Lord Haversham's lovechildren, for shame!

But it works MUCH better than Gwen shagging the 20-some-years-older Obsorn. Who WAS HER MURDERER. That's Joey Q lovin' on characterization and character history for ya.

[Alan2099]

Let's be clear, the idea of introducing the kids, aged or not, in Sins Pasts wasn't that good of an idea. Making them Peter's kids though, would fit in with the history of Spider-man. The decision to make them the result of an affair between Norman and Gwen was (as Kieth Oberman would say) 'The Worst Idea In The World!!" It was so incongruous with everything any reader has known or felt about Gwen that it turned stomachs. This was the monster of all bad ideas. It was that aspect of the story that was all Joe Q's. And he rightfully deserves the blame. Just as he does now for OMD.
Sins past might have started as a not so good idea, but until OMD it rivaled the Clone Saga for worse Spider-man stories.

Have we actually heard anything confirming that it was Joe Q's idea to make them Norman's? All I've heard was that he said not to make them Peter's.

[Taniwha]

The fans also liked Gwen Stacy and would have been happy to see her and Peter settle down,a nd Stan killed her. Maybe Joe Q should take a lesson from him, right?

But by killing her, he didn't COMPLETELY MAKE THEIR ROMANCE NOT EVER HAPPEN. This new One More Donut, er, Day, makes Mary Jane basically never happen.

Craptastic.

[Lord Foul]

Doctor Strange casts some mamma jamma vodoo over Aunt May's comatose body. Peter has mere moments with Aunt May in astral form.

AUNT MAY: Peter...where are we? Am i dying?
PETER: We don't have time for this Aunt May. I need some advice. I'm thinking about saving your life by dealing with the devil...
AUNT MAY Oh give it a rest Peter. It's been almost 20 years since i've seen your Uncle Ben....doncha think it's time we move along here. And if you think making any sort of deal with Mephisto is a good idea, then you've not learned a damn thing that i've taught you. Now go tap that Red Head.

The really sad thing is you know this is exactly what would happen. Exp considering Aunt May was a very old school lady, and would prob slug Peter for making a deal with the DEVIL.

[Mr.Musgrave]

REAL WORLD 101

You see, in the business world, there exists this thing called contracts. Especially in the entertainment business. The contract tells the writer what he will be paid for his work, and how long his contract is for. It also guarantees that the employer gets the work done, and that the writer can't just pull out anytime he damn well feels like it.

So, if JMS just refused, Marvel could sue him for breach of contract.

This has been Real World 101.

I'm sorry, at what point did you get to read JMS's contract with Marvel? Does he even have a exclusive contract or does he work freelance? Why would they sue him for breach of contract when they've never sued another creator (say Kevin Smith or Damon Lindelof) for the same? Do you know any of these answers or are you just making crap up.

[Red Lotus]

Yea, cause the fans would have accepted it being Peter's baby with wide open arms.....

Actually i think the idea had a lot of potential.

They could have made the kids Peter's and made it work. Gwen discovers she pregnant, there is some thing wrong because instead being 1 or 2 she is 5 or 6. She runs into Norman and he tells her he can help her. She gives birth, but Norman keeps the kids. With Harry sick and Peter worried she doesn't know how to tell him. But Norman finds out she is about to tell Peter and kills her.


JMS didn't say the story was bad, though. Just that it wasn't what he had in mind. Fans used this to infer that he hates the story and Joe Quesada and Brand New Day.


Not saying he hates OMD, but this is much more then a man who feels this wasn't what he had in mind.

In the current storyline, there's a lot that I don't agree with, and I
made this very clear to everybody within shouting distance at Marvel,
especially Joe. I'll be honest: there was a point where I made the
decision, and told Joe, that I was going to take my name off the last
two issues of the OMD arc

[Taniwha]

Whoever said they were erasing it? I thought one of the points was that MJ fully remembered how things used to be. That flies just as well as anything else.

The only reason that doesn't fly with you is because you don't like it. It has nothing to do with the stories potential. Just come on out and admit it.

Actually, Alan, the two are not mutually exclusive. The story certainly is pissing in a majority of the cornflakes of Marvel readers, it seems, but the story itself has only the potential to weaken the current Marvel storylines, because it's not a 'clean' reboot, it's an 'in medias res' reboot. Unlike any of the Big Ol Honking DC reboots which came back after rewriting the entire history and laid out for readers how the universe differed, and reintroduced the characters, this storyline's rewriting the entire Marvel history, yet not rebooting the entire company. Just tinkering with one hero's titles, and rewriting the entire universe... just not explaining the full differences in the 20 years they're shitting on. I mean, er, erasing.

The simplest argument as to the weakness of the storyline is the Marvel Civil War, like it or HATE HATE HATE it. Spidey was a fulcrum of what went on, and his actions were crucial. Spidey's agreeing to unmask? Big part of the Pro Tony argument. Based a great deal on MJ. Would Spidey have unmasked if he didn't have his publicly known and famous wife MJ to protect? Or would he have been more protective of his 134 year old less-frail-every-day Aunt?

Will they retell the whole Civil War for us now that they've revised the very driving force behind one of the most important characters in it? Or will they just cut MJ out and say, "oh, yeah, the rest happened, except MJ wasn't there"?

[Michael P]

Don't forget the Decimation.

One wonders what his third genie is. No Franklin Richards, maybe?

[Fatguy]

Actually i think the idea had a lot of potential.

They could have made the kids Peter's and made it work. Gwen discovers she pregnant, there is some thing wrong because instead being 1 or 2 she is 5 or 6. She runs into Norman and he tells her he can help her. She gives birth, but Norman keeps the kids. With Harry sick and Peter worried she doesn't know how to tell him. But Norman finds out she is about to tell Peter and kills her.

I agree, but my point was, you would see just as many pissed of posters over that as we saw over Norman being daddy. Any angle he took would've been seen by hardcore fans as defiling one of Spider-Man's historical icons.

[Red Lotus]

I agree, but my point was, you would see just as many pissed of posters over that as we saw over Norman being daddy. Any angle he took would've been seen by hardcore fans as defiling one of Spider-Man's historical icons.

Most of the fans were pissed because of what it did to Gwen. Yeah there would be some ticked of fans if the kids were Peter's, but no matter what you do you will get that. The kids being Peter's would have had way less ticked off fans then Norman screwing Gwen.

[philly]

Whoever said they were erasing it? I thought one of the points was that MJ fully remembered how things used to be. That flies just as well as anything else.

The only reason that doesn't fly with you is because you don't like it. It has nothing to do with the stories potential. Just come on out and admit it.

There is a huge difference between story potential and just going backwards because the writers and the editor are too lazy to move the characters forward. "One More Day" proves with out a doubt that its the creative side who are in charge of the books who are at fault for the decline in story telling in the Spider-man series, not the marriage or the ageing of the characters.

[Shellhead]

Some of the posts in this thread have been pretty rude. I don't why anybody here is taking this so personally. It's clearly an unusual situation, because it is so rare to hear a writer say that he wrote a story a certain way because he was ordered to do so. But the only people that should be taking this news personally are JMS and Joe Quesada.

[Taniwha]

Don't forget the Decimation.

One wonders what his third genie is. No Franklin Richards, maybe?

Nah, next up will be Civil War: Clone Kindergarten edition, where Calvin comes back from limbo and fights Little Franklin Richards, Boy Genius using Scientific Progress That Goes Boink.

Hey, do you folks realize that when all this MaryJane-icide is over, The Clone War will be better than what Marvel does with Spidey afterwards, simply because it'll have had good Mary Jane stuff in it?

How's them apples? No matter what Joey the Q does next, it'll suck worse than MAXIMUM CLONAGE. Simply because that old chestnut at least had sympathetic wife (and mother-to-be, or not) Mary Jane Watson Parker.

Come to think of it, didn't the Life of Reilly writeup years back state how they almost used a 'time travel loop' story with Mephisto, but decried it as being too un-Spidey-like, and a total weakass chump copout?

Ya can't polish a turd, but you can prop it up with Dr. Strange.

[Alan2099]

There is a huge difference between story potential and just going backwards because the writers and the editor are too lazy to move the characters forward. "One More Day" proves with out a doubt that its the creative side who are in charge of the books who are at fault for the decline in story telling in the Spider-man series, not the marriage or the ageing of the characters.

What's the point in continuing to move a character forward if you never reach a point where the story stops?

[Rix]

What's the point in continuing to move a character forward if you never reach a point where the story stops?


Um, because people still like to read about characters that learn, grow and develop?

[Mister Mets]

Don't forget the Decimation.

One wonders what his third genie is. No Franklin Richards, maybe?
The first genie was the overpopulation of mutants.

The second genie was the way the heroes automatically trusted one anothe.

But by killing her, he didn't COMPLETELY MAKE THEIR ROMANCE NOT EVER HAPPEN. This new One More Donut, er, Day, makes Mary Jane basically never happen.

Craptastic.
But it allows for new stories with Mary Jane.

I don't agree that making Peter look older is automatically a wrong direction to go. Trying to make him look younger is a pointless endeavour (you cannot age backwards), and having him frozen in place becomes stagnant and old eventually. Things have to change from time to time.

The kids wouldn't "limit" the writers in what they can address, they would open up as many storytelling options as they close, if not more. It would be a shift of gears that would affect the dynamic of the story, but it wouldn't just close off possibilities with no gain; by the same logic, NOT having the kids also "limits" the writers in terms of stories the can address.

There are always limits. DareDevil is blind. Does this limit him unjustly because he can't have stories about visiting the eye doctor? No. It's just the way he is.

SIDENOTE: If DareDevil visiting the eye doctor was written by Bendis, I'd read it. :P
Quoting this again to make one more point.

An alternative to having Peter obviously age, or having the character appear younger is for Marvel to present him as a young guy in his twenties.

If he were to have children, he would appear older whenever they get older.

[Tobias Drake]

Quoting this again to make one more point.

An alternative to having Peter obviously age, or having the character appear younger is for Marvel to present him as a young guy in his twenties.

If he were to have children, he would appear older whenever they get older.

Works for Reed Richards.

[DeadXMan]

Sorry but that does not fly as well, especially when they are trying to erase 20 years worth of continuity in order to try to make their "lazy" ideas work.

they tried to recton 35 yrs in order make a lazy idea work,
and it blew up in thier face.

I'll give them credit for at lest trying something differnt.

and giv it a try.

seriously I've always hated MJ

[DaeJi]

The fans also liked Gwen Stacy and would have been happy to see her and Peter settle down,a nd Stan killed her. Maybe Joe Q should take a lesson from him, right?

Actually, yes he should. It's not really the breaking up of the marriage that bothers a lot of fans, it's the completely ass-backward way they are going about it. If Joe Q really hates the marriage that much, just kill her and leave the past in place.

[Don't pee in the (Dead)pool]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to remember reading interviews with JMS in the 90's when Babylon 5 was ending and the quality was really poor. From the start of the series he'd said that he had a " 5 year vision " of the story and yet, in season 5 he passed it over to other writers and directors ( Neil Gaiman amongst them, BTW! ) and blamed Warner Brothers for the mess. So, does this mean that JMS' work is constantly being interfered with by ignorant overseers or does it mean that the man cannot take responsibility for not being able to end any of his " visions " creatively? Either way, if he didn't agree with OMD, he should have left because now, in my opinion, he's lost the little bit of credibility he had left. JMS and Joe Q are going to be forever remembered as the men who destroyed the Spider-man mythos.

[Harley]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to remember reading interviews with JMS in the 90's when Babylon 5 was ending and the quality was really poor. From the start of the series he'd said that he had a " 5 year vision " of the story and yet, in season 5 he passed it over to other writers and directors ( Neil Gaiman amongst them, BTW! ) and blamed Warner Brothers for the mess. So, does this mean that JMS' work is constantly being interfered with by ignorant overseers or does it mean that the man cannot take responsibility for not being able to end any of his " visions " creatively? Either way, if he didn't agree with OMD, he should have left because now, in my opinion, he's lost the little bit of credibility he had left. JMS and Joe Q are going to be forever remembered as the men who destroyed the Spider-man mythos.
This is off-topic, but let me just correct your memory. The fact is that once the WB cable channel came into being, Warner Bros. wanted to quickly close down its PTEN network, which was producing Babylon 5 at the time. JMS was told to wrap up his storylines in a hurry because the funding was being pulled at the end of Babylon 5's fourth season. With a heavy heart, JMS did so, even going so far as to shoot the final episode of the series at the end of filming season four. It was only after all that was in the can that he received an offer from the TNT network for another, final season. Already having compressed his original ideas for the story in to the previous year, JMS scrambled to stretch out the resolution of the story to accommodate another season. That is the real reason that the quality of the story dipped in the last season of Babylon 5. It's not because he "passed it off" or that he isn't "able to end any of his " visions " creatively."

[Crimson]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to remember reading interviews with JMS in the 90's when Babylon 5 was ending and the quality was really poor. From the start of the series he'd said that he had a " 5 year vision " of the story and yet, in season 5 he passed it over to other writers and directors ( Neil Gaiman amongst them, BTW! ) and blamed Warner Brothers for the mess. So, does this mean that JMS' work is constantly being interfered with by ignorant overseers or does it mean that the man cannot take responsibility for not being able to end any of his " visions " creatively? Either way, if he didn't agree with OMD, he should have left because now, in my opinion, he's lost the little bit of credibility he had left. JMS and Joe Q are going to be forever remembered as the men who destroyed the Spider-man mythos.

It is odd that it's only his bad storylines he won't take credit for. Sins Past, The Other and now OMD.

All the good ones, he never seems to discuss. Are we to believe those are all his stories 100% with 0 interference?

[Noronha]

It is odd that it's only his bad storylines he won't take credit for. Sins Past, The Other and now OMD.

All the good ones, he never seems to discuss. Are we to believe those are all his stories 100% with 0 interference?

I didn´t see him not taking credit for the other.
As for sins past people asked him what was he thinking and he told that Peter being the father was the original idea,the problem was this idea was rejected well into the storyline.
He said the story was his idea,only the way it ended wasn´t yet he took credit for the whole story.

OMD isn´t his idea,he merely wrote the plot that JoeQ asked him to,the whole idea comes from JoeQ´s mind,so there is a difference.

[Pirenne]

This is off-topic, but let me just correct your memory. The fact is that once the WB cable channel came into being, Warner Bros. wanted to quickly close down its PTEN network, which was producing Babylon 5 at the time. JMS was told to wrap up his storylines in a hurry because the funding was being pulled at the end of Babylon 5's fourth season. With a heavy heart, JMS did so, even going so far as to shoot the final episode of the series at the end of filming season four. It was only after all that was in the can that he received an offer from the TNT network for another, final season. Already having compressed his original ideas for the story in to the previous year, JMS scrambled to stretch out the resolution of the story to accommodate another season. That is the real reason that the quality of the story dipped in the last season of Babylon 5. It's not because he "passed it off" or that he isn't "able to end any of his " visions " creatively."

Actually, from what I gathered it mostly amounted to re-sorting the more action-oriented lines into season 4 and the more character-oriented lines into season 5. As a result, season 4 seems too rushed and season 5 by comparison too slow, and the transition from season 4 to season 5 is, well, rather uneven.

That said, I don't recall him ever "blaming" WB for the result, and I don't think there is any reason to "blame" anyone since season 5 is in no way inferior to season 2, let alone season 1, and actually has some of the series' best episodes in it. And regarding the "passing it of" part - he wrote all but one episode in season 5. On the contrary he never had a problem to admit publicly or on DVD commentary if things didn't work out, or if he made mistakes.

I find it surprising, though, that he didn't insist on getting his name off the book, or that he didn't quit. For if there's one thing he has a history of, it's quitting jobs and canceling shows if he suffered interference to that extent. Earned him a reputation for being "difficult" and "a pain in the butt" - obviously in such matters you can only lose. But without knowledge of the details and the contract ... what can one say.

Well, I've been in similar situations, not as an artist, but as a researcher, when the project supervisor decided to run things in a way I couldn't agree with. Now what to do? You don't quit your job because one project doesn't go your way, besides quitting the job also doesn't make the project any better. Neither does the insistence to get your name off it. What I did was much similar to what JMS did - in every presentation I added my comments on what I think could have been done differently, and what the outcome might have been. This has nothing to do with "badmouthing" one's boss or company, or with being a coward for not quitting, but with upholding one's personal and the project's integrity. It's attempt at damage control. I would have preferred it if he had waited until the book is published, but other than that, I see no problem with this.

[Alan2099]

Also, as I've said before we don't know how much of the idea was his. Did oe Q give him all the details? Did he give him a rough sketch? Did he just throw a few ideas out there and tell him to make them work? Maybe Mephisto was his idea. Maybe he was the one that came up with the Super MJ stuff. Maybe Joe Q did. Right now, we don't know. All we know is that Joe told him in some form or another what he wanted to see and JMS wrote it and then talked about how he didn't like it.

[rZi]

This isn't a suprise for me and it shouldn't be for regular spider-fans on this board because..

When OMD was first announced during the war at homearc JQ said something alongthe lines of:

"This will be JMS's last arc, it will give him chance to say everything he wants to about the character"

This was taken as he would tie-up the Other story and some Dr.strange elements plus anything else he wanted to say.

This is why when i first heard the general premise for OMD (break peter and mj up) i knew it wouldn't be JMS behind it....as he loved the marriage. Hell he tried to incorporate it into each book...he loved writing MJ.

[IRONY...]

Though I understand your anger ,I cannot understand why is Mephisto as a villain of Spidey and a tempararily retcon would be that bad...

We all know that after a year or two they will end up together again...:D

I am very eager to check what is happening next.
So now Peter will live single remembering that he once had a child with the love of his life...Gwen Stacy(retconned) and at the same time rembering being married with the hottie MJ . Just great...:confused: :confused: :confused:

[Noronha]

Though I understand your anger ,I cannot understand why is Mephisto as a villain of Spidey and a tempararily retcon would be that bad...

We all know that after a year or two they will end up together again...:D

The only way that will happen is if the sales go way down.
Liken i said there´s no way in hell JoeQ is going to bring back the marrige after going through so much trouble to end it,unless he´s forced to.

So this retcon isn´t temporary.

[SnakeEater]

if Quesada is so interested in whats best for the character, why doesnt he just write this himself?
I dont understand why any writer who is as respected as JMS would allow anyone to change his work. Wasnt it Quesada who said Gwen should have had sex with Osborn? Its just dumb.
Some things are worth fighting for and if you dont agree with someone changing your story then you shouldnt be continuing the butcher of the cxharacter and story

[Mister Mets]

It is odd that it's only his bad storylines he won't take credit for. Sins Past, The Other and now OMD.

All the good ones, he never seems to discuss. Are we to believe those are all his stories 100% with 0 interference?
Fiona Avery has said in interviews that the Loki story was pretty much all her. Presumably the same could be said of the other three issues she "cowrote."

I think JMS had an extraordinary amount of freedom on the series, with the exceptions you cite. I wouldn't call them all the "good ones" as there were some clunkers in the bunch, though they're not as remembered because they weren't significant of hyped up (the Shade/ Doctor Strange storyline for example had the cardinal sin of being boring.)

if Quesada is so interested in whats best for the character, why doesnt he just write this himself?
I dont understand why any writer who is as respected as JMS would allow anyone to change his work. Wasnt it Quesada who said Gwen should have had sex with Osborn? Its just dumb.
Some things are worth fighting for and if you dont agree with someone changing your story then you shouldnt be continuing the butcher of the cxharacter and story
Quesada said that Peter shouldn't be the father of Gwen's children. He then approved the Osborn idea. JMS always had the option of going a different route.

[Rolltideguy77]

So I am just wondering if anyone is planning to not pick this up? I am so tired of Joey Q ruining Spidey. If OMD turns out the way it looks to be turning out and it retcons a vast amount of Spidey history I am not giving him my money any longer. Let the sales suffer, they deserve to. I dont like the thought of reading my old Spidey back issues and its like they never happened. No marriage, no MJ and for cryin out loud can some writers get some balls and deal with the baby May plotline? Is anyone else as tired of this crap as I? MJ is a superhero? Norman is Gwen's babydaddy? A big poop sandwich for all of this!

[Tobias Drake]

... am I the only one that's getting sick and tired of "Spider-marriage 4ever! Spider-man sucks without MJ and I can't read him! Joe Q is the devil and needs to die a slow lingering death!" posts?

Have to give OMD and BND credit; they're birthing a lot of threads.

[666andahalf]

It really depends. Let's just wait and see what happens in BND. If the stories are enjoyable enough I'll stay interested, however, if they're not, then well... Hopefully Dan Slott will write stories that won't require us to hold our noses.

[DaeJi]

It will depend on how OMD ends. If the marriage and 20 years of stories are done away with via some magic trick, Spider-Man will be dead to me.

[Chubber]

If things go the way they seem to be going, I won't be happy, but it won't stop me from buying Amazing. Even if I am not happy with the direction they take the book, I know there will be good stories that I don't want to miss.

[Rolltideguy77]

I agree on some levels with everyone's posts. Good stories or not I cant bring myself to support and WASTE my money on a hero that defined much of the values that shaped me as a child, adolescent and adult wrecked. Giving up on Spidey is something I have never done. But I hate to see 20 plus years of stories down the toilet. I totally respect Slott and think he is a great writer but it about more than that for me.
Remember Joey Q- "With great power, comes great responsibility". I know you might have seen that in the Spidey movie but it was in the books long before and if you would ever bother to read any of them, you might understand a little more about Spidey, his history, what works and doesn't and what his fans want and don't want to see happen.

[DaeJi]

I agree on some levels with everyone's posts. Good stories or not I cant bring myself to support and WASTE my money on a hero that defined much of the values that shaped me as a child, adolescent and adult wrecked. Giving up on Spidey is something I have never done. But I hate to see 20 plus years of stories down the toilet. I totally respect Slott and think he is a great writer but it about more than that for me.

I grew up with Spidey married. I always liked that about him, that he was this normal guy who could be a superhero and yet do all the regular things normal people do, like get married. It made him more relatable, more human to me. Even more-so than Batman.

[Rolltideguy77]

I grew up with Spidey married. I always liked that about him, that he was this normal guy who could be a superhero and yet do all the regular things normal people do, like get married. It made him more relatable, more human to me. Even more-so than Batman.

Oh yeah, Spidey was the everyman, that's why people love him. We feel like him on some level. We are out there giving it our all everyday, balancing work, kids, marriage, school. the "Jonah's" of the world, etc. But at the end of the day Spidey would always get kicked while he's down and many people relate to that. Batman was never relatable to me. A grumpy billionaire who lives in a cave with a young boy and old manservant. Hmmm, come to think of it that may be some people,haha.

[IRONY...]

c'mon this is all gonna be back to normal, trust me...

This cannot be happening for ever...they even started playing with us with the Jackpot character before OMD ends...

[Noronha]

Spider who?
Oh you mean the new alternative universe they are creating?
No,not going to pick that up,gonna run in the opposite direction.

The spider-man i bought told Mephisto to shove his deal up the ass,aunt may died and as for the rest i´ll be waiting for it´s continuation(probably going to wait for a long time).

But at least i have ultimate spidey and Spider-girl to keep me company:)

Is it coincidence that the titles where there is no editorial mandate(JoeQ) and the writers have total freedom are the best ones around?

[unkiedev]

Yes, I'll be buying it. I've waited TOO long for Dan Slott to write mainstream Spidey Titles, and I'm not going to leave Dan high and dry just because I'm pissed at Joey Q.

[Cayman]

Probably not the one-shot but I will certainly give Amazing a try.

[Rolltideguy77]

Spider who?
Oh you mean the new alternative universe they are creating?
No,not going to pick that up,gonna run in the opposite direction.

The spider-man i bought told Mephisto to shove his deal up the ass,aunt may died and as for the rest i´ll be waiting for it´s continuation(probably going to wait for a long time).

But at least i have ultimate spidey and Spider-girl to keep me company:)

Is it coincidence that the titles where there is no editorial mandate(JoeQ) and the writers have total freedom are the best ones around?
EXACTLY! Pete would totally have told Mephisto to shove it. He would let Aunt May die rather than make a deal with the Devil. Didnt Aunt May already come to him and tell him to leave her alone she was ready to die?

[DaeJi]

EXACTLY! Pete would totally have told Mephisto to shove it. He would let Aunt May die rather than make a deal with the Devil. Didnt Aunt May already come to him and tell him to leave her alone she was ready to die?

I think the plan is to have MJ make the deal, not Peter. Which doesn't make any sense either, I'm sure Peter will tell MJ that Mephisto pretty lies about everything and making any kind of deal with him will come back and bite everyone (including people not a part of the deal) in the ass big time.

[Rolltideguy77]

I went in and added a poll so go vote!

[Fatguy]

I'll definitely be buying Amazing, I'm really excited for it.

Bachalo Spidey!

[Tobias Drake]

I blame Captain America--hear me out!

The entire Marvel world, including Aunt May herself, has told Peter to let May die...except Captain America. Captain America, during Civil War, spoke these words to him: "When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree besides the river of truth, and tell the whole world, "No, you move."

That's what Peter's doing. He's decided he won't let May die, and he's planting himself like a tree on this concept and telling everyone else, "You move." And it's not working out for him any better than it did Rogers.

[Rolltideguy77]

Yeah cap got three in the gut for not moving his ass into that courthouse faster. Damn Steve! Maybe they will bring in Heroes Reborn Cap, I think he's still running around out there haha.

[Spider-Sense]

I will be buying it,of course.

[bloodyarts]

I know that "OMD" stands for "One More Day", but what does "BND" stand for?


EDIT: Oh wait, is it "Brand New Day"?

And no, I won't buy. Haven't bought any Spidey books since that Totem business took place. Book hasn't improved a lick since then. Sins Past and The Other just make me shake my head... what a fall from grace, my poor Spider-man.

[Rolltideguy77]

I know that "OMD" stands for "One More Day", but what does "BND" stand for?


EDIT: Oh wait, is it "Brand New Day"?

And no, I won't buy. Haven't bought any Spidey books since that Totem business took place. Book hasn't improved a lick since then. Sins Past and The Other just make me shake my head... what a fall from grace, my poor Spider-man.

Quoted for truth

[Mister Mets]

I went in and added a poll so go vote!

Poll's wrong, under the assumption that everyone here will buy it based on their opinions of One More Day, a story by a creative team that won't be working on Brand New Day.

There's no option for "I will buy it and see if I like it before committing to buying any more."

[mikekerr3]

Just imagine how thes will play on FOX news, a children's favorite ,spiderman, makes a deal with the devil abandoning his wife,

Marvel would not lose to may millions on that boycott, but then the goverment death camps, murders, torture and gulags will come out. The "values voters" will fall over themselves to boycott

The librals won't provide much cover when they find out that Tony Stark has become a fascist murder.

I am pretty sure it will come to thier attention I have the E-mail half written already. It only takes one to start the feeding frenzy. How will that help the Iron Man movie?

My wife goes to an evangist church, I know how the people in her church would react, Their kids would never see anther spiderman toy/garment onder the tree.

[Tobias Drake]

... am I the only one that's getting sick and tired of "Spider-marriage 4ever! Spider-man sucks without MJ and I can't read him! Joe Q is the devil and needs to die a slow lingering death!" posts?

Have to give OMD and BND credit; they're birthing a lot of threads.

The threads are breeding like jackrabbits!

[Noronha]

I can see the headlines:

"The ultimate divorce,Spider-Man dumps wife by making a deal with JoeQ er... Devil"

[drwho]

Hopefully, Oreilly has better things to discuss than this. Mephisto has always been around in the Marvel U. I mean Marvel offed Captain America supposedly and the reaction didn't ruin comics. I don't want religion messing around with the stories I get in comics. In the 80s Marvel had a storyline about sacrificing babies to open a demon portal to hell. This pales in comparison to that.

[Sean Whitmore]

Uh-oh!

We all know Bill O'Reilly is a huge fan of the Peter/MJ marriage. He's gonna go nuts now!


SEAN

[Noronha]

Hopefully, Oreilly has better things to discuss than this. Mephisto has always been around in the Marvel U. I mean Marvel offed Captain America supposedly and the reaction didn't ruin comics. I don't want religion messing around with the stories I get in comics. In the 80s Marvel had a storyline about sacrificing babies to open a demon portal to hell. This pales in comparison to that.

It already is,when the EIC is afraid to divorce Peter and MJ because of the media backclash and instead goes with this horrific plan to end it.

[drwho]

Dont forget to mention the racially intolerant Church of Humanity and the Purifiers who are follower that blew up a bus of kids with missiles also in the New X-Men book. Also don't forget their crazy religious leader Rev. Stryker.

[jeffgamer]

No marriage + no history = no patronage. That's my equation.

[Mister Mets]

It's too complicated to sum up in a single sentence.

Therefore it won't be a Fox News headline in the same way "Spider-Man has a bastard child" or "Spider-Man divorces Mary Jane" or "Spider-Man cheats on wife" or "Mary Jane cheats on Spider-Man" could be headlines.

[Tobias Drake]

FOX NEWS SPECIAL: Spider-Man makes deal with Satan. Nobody cares. Real news at 11.

[Harlock]

FOX NEWS SPECIAL: Spider-Man makes deal with Satan. Nobody cares. Real news at 11.

This sounds absurd enough to be from the Kentucky Fried Movie. I love it.

[Karthak]

Dont forget to mention the racially intolerant Church of Humanity and the Purifiers who are follower that blew up a bus of kids with missiles also in the New X-Men book. Also don't forget their crazy religious leader Rev. Stryker.

Don't they have people like that in real life over there? I remember seeing a picture of some christians nutcases protesting at a soldier's funeral with signs that said: "God hates fags".

[Starleafgirl]

Just imagine how thes will play on FOX news, a children's favorite ,spiderman, makes a deal with the devil abandoning his wife,

My wife goes to an evangist church, I know how the people in her church would react, Their kids would never see anther spiderman toy/garment onder the tree.

Well... we have to remember Mestipho or whatever is just a comic book character, not the REAL devil... what I think "value voters" and the religious right should be upset over is Spider-Man (or MJ) playing God with people's lives by altering reality to suit individual needs instead of, say, trying to find some normal way (like advanced technology or alien healing powers. Did I just call that normal? Lol.) to save Aunt May or respectfully letting her slip away.

[Harlock]

I am excited about some of the creative teams in upcoming Amazing runs. I'll still be purchasing Spider-Man.

It's not that I don't find OMD completely out of character if either Peter or MJ take Meph's deal. It's not that I don't find the solution to the marriage "problem" as it looks now to be contrived and rather heavy handed. It's not that I dislike the marriage at all, in fact, I like where the book is now. It's not that I think the only worse thing that could happen aside from what appears to be happening would be for Peter to have shot J.R. Ewing and wake up from the dream...

It's just that I know this is comic books and changes come and go. I also know there will still be great Amazing Spider-Man stories. I have no need to spend my money on Ultimate as I always feel a sort of "been there done that" feeling when they introduce a new old villain or plot. Spider-Man will continue to evolve. Spider-Man will continue to be retconned. Those retcons will in turn be retconned. That's just comics. I am a Spider-Man fan. I will always support his flagship title.

[Sean Whitmore]

Well... we have to remember Mestipho or whatever is just a comic book character, not the REAL devil...

Biting my tongue...biting my tongue...not gonna say it....


SEAN

[Starleafgirl]

Biting my tongue...biting my tongue...not gonna say it....

SEAN

Go ahead, say it, I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to the Spider-Man universe, lol. I keep forgetting who's who in the villains list.

[Sean Whitmore]

Go ahead, say it, I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to the Spider-Man universe, lol. I keep forgetting who's who in the villains list.

Heh, no, it's nothing comics-related, I just found the phrase "the real Devil" to be humorous.


SEAN

[Starleafgirl]

Heh, no, it's nothing comics-related, I just found the phrase "the real Devil" to be humorous.


SEAN

Oh, yeah, that, lol, I totally didn't think of that when I said it. ;)

[Cayman]

Heh, no, it's nothing comics-related, I just found the phrase "the real Devil" to be humorous.


SEAN

*remembers the old quote "The greatest lie the Devil ever told was convincing Sean Whitmore that he didn't exist"*

[Sonicjuce]

Uh-oh!

We all know Bill O'Reilly is a huge fan of the Peter/MJ marriage. He's gonna go nuts now!


SEAN

Is this sarcasm or has O'reilly actually said something about it? I imagine this is sarcasm but sometimes it is hard to tell on these message boards.

Also why don't we just have one overall goodbye marrage thread where this can all be discussed? I figure u'd be the person to ask....

[Sean Whitmore]

Poll's wrong, under the assumption that everyone here will buy it based on their opinions of One More Day, a story by a creative team that won't be working on Brand New Day.

There's no option for "I will buy it and see if I like it."

True, but then, I don't think anybody's really expecting BND to be poorly written or drawn. The main reason expressed here for not buying it is in protest against OMD.


SEAN

[Bulky Brent]

I am excited about some of the creative teams in upcoming Amazing runs. I'll still be purchasing Spider-Man.
I'm really excited about the New creative teams also especially Slott and McNiven I wonder how slott will pick up the story when JMS's run is over that whats keeping excited mostly at this time. New Teams New Villians Possible return of Roderick Kinsley

It's not that I don't find OMD completely out of character if either Peter or MJ take Meph's deal. It's not that I don't find the solution to the marriage "problem" as it looks now to be contrived and rather heavy handed. It's not that I dislike the marriage at all, in fact, I like where the book is now. It's not that I think the only worse thing that could happen aside from what appears to be happening would be for Peter to have shot J.R. Ewing and wake up from the dream...
I pretty much agree with everything in this scenario except the Marriage ending like people said before the marriage is pretty much what differentiates ASM(Friendly Neighborhood,Sensational) from all the other Spider-Man titles. If you want to read about a single Peter you can simply read any one of the alternative Spider-Man titles.

[Sean Whitmore]

Is this sarcasm or has O'reilly actually said something about it? I imagine this is sarcasm but sometimes it is hard to tell on these message boards.

Sarcasm. Very much goofing on the thread title. :)


Also why don't we just have one overall goodbye marrage thread where this can all be discussed? I figure u'd be the person to ask....

We eventually will, but for now all the different threads are bringing more people to the board, and they all have a little uniqueness to them.


SEAN

[Harlock]

I'm really excited about the New creative teams also especially Slott and McNiven I wonder how slott will pick up the story when JMS's run is over that whats keeping excited mostly at this time. New Teams New Villians Possible return of Roderick Kinsley


I pretty much agree with everything in this scenario except the Marriage ending like people said before the marriage is pretty much what differentiates ASM(Friendly Neighborhood,Sensational) from all the other Spider-Man titles. If you want to read about a single Peter you can simply read any one of the alternative Spider-Man titles.

Yeah we agree there. I like the marriage.

[Noronha]

I'm really excited about the New creative teams also especially Slott and McNiven I wonder how slott will pick up the story when JMS's run is over that whats keeping excited mostly at this time. New Teams New Villians Possible return of Roderick Kinsley

Actually JoeQ isn´t exactly found of the character either(perhaps one of his Genis lol)and there´s kind of a rule at marvel that only 2 writers are allowed to use him.
Roger Stern and DeFalco.

But yeah he´s the best villain ever my favorite,and thank God Stern(who else)saved him for the disaster and the laughing stock he´d became.

[Magneto X]

FOX NEWS SPECIAL: Spider-Man makes deal with Satan. Nobody cares. Real news at 11.

Ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[IRONY...]

Of course I will buy it no matter what they serve us...

I am not gonna take JQ decision seriously if that would be separating them...

It will always be Spider-man and I will always keep bying Amazing Spider-man because I have to...

[Brian M.]

We would be ok w/ this if it was a gay marriage. Since in the Religious Right Handbook we have it is ok to end a marriage by making a deal with the devil as long as it is a gay marriage. Make MJ a man and this will be ok w/ us Religious Rights.

[Tobias Drake]

We would be ok w/ this if it was a gay marriage. Since in the Religious Right Handbook we have it is ok to end a marriage by making a deal with the devil as long as it is a gay marriage. Make MJ a man and this will be ok w/ us Religious Rights.

Problem solved. Mephisto can make MJ a man, THEN end the marriage! Everybody wins!

[Brian M.]

Problem solved. Mephisto can make MJ a man, THEN end the marriage! Everybody wins!

Peter Parker and Marty Jane then can team up and be super heroes together. Thus becoming the new Batman and Robin.

[Tobias Drake]

Peter Parker and Marty Jane then can team up and be super heroes together. Thus becoming the new Batman and Robin.

So now we're having Mephisto age-reduce MJ too! Wow...Stan Lee will defy the laws of physics by spinning in his grave before he's even in it.

[Tobias March]

FOX NEWS SPECIAL: Spider-Man makes deal with Satan. Nobody cares. Real news at 11.

Which will turn out to be a round table discussion of the death of Captain America and its effects upon the morale of US soldiery.

It would be funnier if it hadn't already happened.

[Paul McEnery]

*remembers the old quote "The greatest lie the Devil ever told was convincing Sean Whitmore that he didn't exist"*

But we all already know that Sean Whitmore doesn't exist.

[Cayman]

What if they find out Mephisto's been tempting Marvel heroes since 1968? :eek:

[Tobias Drake]

What if they find out Mephisto's been tempting Marvel heroes since 1968? :eek:

What if they find out about GHOST RIDER!!! :eek: Imagine the fallout if that ever came out!!!

[Schmakt]

I voted "no" When Back in Black started, I was definitely excited for the thrice-monthly ASM. When BiB ended up being pretty lame and now OMD boring me, I'm dropping spidey for a while.

I do have to say, however, this story is woven well. (OMD) If it wasn't for the internet, I'd still be guessing about what would happen with, really, nothing to go on. It just feels like yet another story that has some really interesting things going for it but then ends up closing in the dumbest way possible.

yeah, anyway. I've already dropped spidey, and I have no plans to pick it up after omd.

[Tobias Drake]

I find it greatly amusing that, to voice their displeasure with the current creative team, people are refusing to support the next creative team.

[Harlock]

I find it greatly amusing that, to voice their displeasure with the current creative team, people are refusing to support the next creative team.

To be fair, I think that's a bit of a misinterpretation. I think most folks are displeased with the editorial decisions being made on ASM and from all indications, the same editor(s) responsible for those decisions will in fact be working with the next creative team(s).

[Dr. Chaos]

Yes, I'll buy it because one supporting character does not make this book for me.

I'm not going to hold such a ridiculous grudge against a group of talented writers and artists because I can deal with change, in fact, I embrace it.

Some people want to magically believe all Spidey stories are horrible from this point on, thats fine, I wait for Dan Slott's run with extreme anticipation, though I do feel sorry for him because seeing as his story is the first, he's going to be taking the brunt of alot of fanboy BS, regardless of how good or bad his arc really is.

[Sean Whitmore]

I find it greatly amusing that, to voice their displeasure with the current creative team, people are refusing to support the next creative team.

No offense to the upcoming creative teams, but they're a non-factor in this discussion.

People who don't like the marriage coming to an end only have the one way to let their displeasure be known, and that's to vote with their dollar. That's what separates them from the people who continue to buy comics that they endlessly complain about.


SEAN

[Sean Whitmore]

Some people want to magically believe all Spidey stories are horrible from this point on, thats fine

Sort of a ridiculous oversimplification, but okay.


SEAN

[mikekerr3]

The reason I believe it will get noticed is that Spiderman is heavily marketed to kids. He is doing something that directly contradicts the morality of a large majority of Americans. Listen to the talking heads on TV about the Golden Compass and that is a book that most had not heard of.

To a Christian or a Jew spiderman is selling his soul in so doing he is helping evil and fighting good. He goes from being a good moral example to totally immoral in a single issue.

[Brian M.]

The reason I believe it will get noticed is that Spiderman is heavily marketed to kids. He is doing something that directly contradicts the morality of a large majority of Americans. Listen to the talking heads on TV about the Golden Compass and that is a book that most had not heard of.

To a Christian or a Jew spiderman is selling his soul in so doing he is helping evil and fighting good. He goes from being a good moral example to totally immoral in a single issue.

A lot of us, not the ones protesting Golden Compass, are smart enough to know that a comic book isn't going to influence social change.

[Sean Whitmore]

I actually read some of that Golden Compass debate, and it is funny, funny stuff. The Christians are complaining that it's too anti-Christian and the atheists are complaining that it isn't anti-Christian enough. I swear, it's as hilarious as it sounds.

That said, you're waaaaaaaay overestimating the extent to which people give a crap about stuff like this. Golden Compass is a blockbuster Christmas-time movie and even that's barely getting any attention. The average person would probably be surprised to know they're still making Spider-Man comics, much less have an opinion about the stories.


SEAN

[Alan2099]

What if they find out about GHOST RIDER!!! :eek: Imagine the fallout if that ever came out!!!

Thank heavens he's never appeared on any cartoons or movies!

[Dr. Chaos]

As opposed to the attempts by some to overcomplicate what is not a deciding factor in the success and well being of this series/franchise?

Sure.

My friend, It's simplified becuase thats exactly what all this whining about is, it's simple and it's talk and talk is extremely cheap.

It isn't going to make a dent in the sales of BND or it's quality, I guarantee you.

Life will go on and people will hopefully learn to let go of such a petty resentment.

[mikekerr3]

I find it greatly amusing that, to voice their displeasure with the current creative team, people are refusing to support the next creative team.

Its the EIC who's pushing the garbage at us. As long as Joe Q is setting the plots. The Creative team is just following orders not being creative. There won't really be a new creative team around as long as Joe Q keeps destroying the characters we have loved. Editors of fiction are supposed to guide and help them. Joe Q seems to be ignoring that. I have no displeaser now with the current creative team they did their best and had their work mangled by the editor.

[DaeJi]

As opposed to the attempts by some to overcomplicate what is not a deciding factor in the success and well being of this series/franchise?

Sure.

My friend, It's simplified becuase thats exactly what all this whining about is, it's simple and it's talk and talk is extremely cheap.

It isn't going to make a dent in the sales of BND or it's quality, I guarantee you.

Life will go on and people will hopefully learn to let go of such a petty resentment.

You know, it's the supporters of this change who always seem to go on and on about the marriage. Guess what, it's not the marriage. Or, it's not all the marriage, and it's not even mostly the marriage. It's he how and why. Let me let in on something, if the rumors are true Marvel is talking about taking away 20 years of history. 20 frickin years. The last time Marvel did this, we got the Clone Saga.

And then there's the why, because Joe Q. thinks the marriage ages Spider-Man. Guess what? It's the marriage, age, college diploma, and teaching job at his old high school that ages him. I don't want to read about Peter having women troubles and rent troubles and trying to hide his identity from his aunt and working at the Bungle. I've read that all already. It's just retreading old, old ground, and I'm not interested.

So.. if the rumors are true, I'm going to voice my opinion and not buy it. Unlike some fans though, I'm not going to blow a gasket and start a point boycott or website or anything. I'm just going to wait for it all to go back to normal. Which is a shame, because I would be looking forward to the creative teams under normal circumstances. I hope the rumors are false, because I would love to read Slott's Spider-Man, the real Spider-Man, not the retconned one that may come out of One More Day.

[Sean Whitmore]

As opposed to the attempts by some to overcomplicate what is not a deciding factor in the success and well being of this series/franchise?

No, just as opposed to being correct. People don't believe that stories from here on in will be "magically worse" or whatever you said. That isn't the issue.


It isn't going to make a dent in the sales of BND or it's quality, I guarantee you.

I never said anything about quality, so I don't know what you're talking about. As for whether or not it makes a dent, it probably won't, but it doesn't mean it's not worth doing. Me not watching American Idol doesn't make the ratings go down, but I still don't watch it.


SEAN

[Alan2099]

So, with all the commotion about the marriage ending, I have to ask, what exactly is so great about Mary Jane? I'm not interested in hearing about the marriage here, but the character herself. What does SHE bring to the titles that no other character could?

Honestly, I liked MJ in the cartoons. She was pretty much the unobtainable ideal pretty girl, just classy enough to be barely out of Peter's league, but still obtainable.

In Spider-girl, I find she adds a very nice voice of reason to the books and a great way to bring the gap between Mayday and Peter, as well as coming off a lot stronger and more mature than normal 616 MJ.

The movie MJ has a lot of the appeal of the cartoon version, but isn't quite as high of a class. She's put on a pedstal by Peter, but is really just as messed up as he is.

Ultimate MJ I don't care for. She's almost the carbon copy of Peter. There's no real contrast there. Now I think they work well as friends there, but I just can't see any serious relationship working, no matter how much they try to force it.

Regualr MJ, Peter's wife... she really doesn't do anything for me.

[DaeJi]

She's very much Peter's rock, and his safe place. Plus, since she was a model and is aging there's a lot of stories you could do with that. Though, not much is really done with her, which is a shame. Then again I can say that about most of Spidey's supporting cast.

[Tobias Drake]

She's a pretty face to look at. Little more. Even her career is built on that.

[ZNOP]

So, with all the commotion about the marriage ending, I have to ask, what exactly is so great about Mary Jane? I'm not interested in hearing about the marriage here, but the character herself. What does SHE bring to the titles that no other character could?

I like the fact that she is baseline human. Something I would like to see more of in the X-Men.

[gravling]

She's very much Peter's rock, and his safe place.

that's pretty much all you need to know about her, and without her i think peter's life might have been a hell of a lot more difficult. however, i think taking away that rock, that support, could bring about some pretty interesting, emotionally driven storylines.

that said, choosing an elderly aunt who only has a few years (at best) left in her over your loyal wife, love of your life and rock, seems utterly retarded to me. peter should be bitchslapped for even thinking about agreeing to the bargain.

people die, pete, deal with it.

[gravling]

I like the fact that she is baseline human. Something I would like to see more of in the X-Men.

i agree with that. one of the things i like best that's come out of the avengers in the last few years is luke cage becoming a family man and a husband, it gives the characters a bit more depth and tangability placing them in such circumstances.

[DaeJi]

that's pretty much all you need to know about her, and without her i think peter's life might have been a hell of a lot more difficult. however, i think taking away that rock, that support, could bring about some pretty interesting, emotionally driven storylines.

Oh, I agree, and I'm not against that. I'm against the why the break-up is happening, and the how it is happening. And I'm against setting the clock back 30 years.

[Harlock]

So, with all the commotion about the marriage ending, I have to ask, what exactly is so great about Mary Jane? I'm not interested in hearing about the marriage here, but the character herself. What does SHE bring to the titles that no other character could?

Honestly, I liked MJ in the cartoons. She was pretty much the unobtainable ideal pretty girl, just classy enough to be barely out of Peter's league, but still obtainable.

In Spider-girl, I find she adds a very nice voice of reason to the books and a great way to bring the gap between Mayday and Peter, as well as coming off a lot stronger and more mature than normal 616 MJ.

The movie MJ has a lot of the appeal of the cartoon version, but isn't quite as high of a class. She's put on a pedstal by Peter, but is really just as messed up as he is.

Ultimate MJ I don't care for. She's almost the carbon copy of Peter. There's no real contrast there. Now I think they work well as friends there, but I just can't see any serious relationship working, no matter how much they try to force it.

Regualr MJ, Peter's wife... she really doesn't do anything for me.

They've had a relationship forever and been married for 20 years of real time. There is a lot of history there. She has been there for him during the hard times, and the good. They've had their ups and downs. She has helped to reinforce the "power/responsibility" aspect that Spider-Man is all about. He is more invested in MJ than he is with almost anyone else (besides maybe Aunt May) and as a married person, I can tell you the responsibility I feel to my own wife and children trumps that which I feel to even my own mother and father.

Also, there were still some unexplored stories there. As for what she brings that no one else could, I could simply ask the opposite. What does anyone else bring to the table that MJ could not? You can say "swinging single Pete" but A) That's been done before in ASM and B) is being done again, now, in Ultimate.

[Harlock]

that said, choosing an elderly aunt who only has a few years (at best) left in her over your loyal wife, love of your life and rock, seems utterly retarded to me. peter should be bitchslapped for even thinking about agreeing to the bargain.

people die, pete, deal with it.

Yeah, that's what bugs me most about this storyline. Even if it ends up being MJ who takes the deal instead of Peter, I still don't see even her making such a choice. And I still think the best ending if they go ahead and take away the marriage is to have May die of natural causes the next day. That is totally Mephisto's style. At least something should be his style in this whole thing.

[Venom]

I'm remember JMS stated a few times that he's a fan of the marriage hence why it was written so well during his run and one of the reasons why he didn't want his name on the final two parts at first. I think the main reason though is that JMS doesn't want to be the guy responsible for writing away the marriage because of all the backlash he'll get as he'll be just as responsible as Joe Quesada is as he plotted and JMS wrote.

[Venom]

What makes Mary Jane so interesting is that she's a fighter. She's been through a hell of a lot in her life just like Peter has. I think it's their tortured souls that they share most in common. And just like Peter she comes out of tragedies one after the other stronger than ever.

She has stuck by Peter throughout the years. Most women would probably not have been able to cope and left a long time ago. But not Mary Jane because she's Peter's rock and no matter what happens she'll always stand by him. Unless the marriage is erased in the final part of "One More Day" that is.

[Taniwha]

What's the point in continuing to move a character forward if you never reach a point where the story stops?

You've asked the question at the core of every single ongoing comic character ever. To solve it, read only finite series from now on.

I suggest "Shade The Changing Man".

[Taniwha]

But it allows for new stories with Mary Jane.

So does keeping the SpiderMarriage around. It left room for non-hack writers to write stories about MJ.

Do you really think Joey Q's interested in ending the SpiderMarriage so he can start over, have 'em hook up again and get back to dating, then a relationship, monogamy, etc?

Nah, JoeyQ's interested in OneMoreDay OneNightStands, not a long-standing relationship for Spidey. He wants his webswinger to be a webbed swinger.

And he is a bacon-singularity. Where bacon and comic history goes to cease existence. He's gonna out-clone-saga the Clone Saga.

[Karl J Barnes]

She's a Red-Head!!! Do you need anything more!!!


But I agree with the posters above that she keeps Peter human and grounded,just like his Aunt May did in the day. She shows that he's not alone and that she is always on his side.

[Your Imaginary Pal]

the way she makes you feel like time doesn't matter, she makes movies funnier, political debate especially stimulating and brownies that take you to another world. She's intoxicating, ask rick james.


ooh that Mary Jane, she calls pete tiger. and she's a model/actress.

[Brian M.]

The blowjobs.

[Alan2099]

The blowjobs.

Peter, that better be you.

[Venom]

I'm a big fan of the marriage and I don't want it to go away. And as I've stated in other threads numerous times no matter what happens I'm still going to collect Amazing Spider-Man because at the end of the day I just want to read good stories about everyone's favourite Wall-Crawler.

[Venom]

I'd like to think that Peter and Mary Jane never have oral sex.

[Tobias Drake]

I like to think that Peter and Mary Jane never have sex at all, but rather, he goes and spends nights with Felicia Hardy while she cries alone in a box somewhere beneath the stairs.

Okay, that's really mean and I can't in good conscience leave it like that. Let's try that again.

I like to think that Peter and Mary Jane never have sex at all, but rather, he goes and spends nights with Felicia Hardy while she spends her time on Broadway hitting it off with famous celebrities.

There we go. Just because I hate her doesn't mean I have to be mean.

[Mysterio]

What's not to say MJ and Peter fall in love all over again in the future? So they wipe out the marriage. No biggie. I have a feeling it'll be back.

And yes, I'm going to pick up BND.

[Brian M.]

Peter, that better be you.

It's me...Norman Osborne...

[Venom]

It's me...Norman Osborne...

I thought Osborn became impudent after Harry was born. :D

[Euchre0]

People who don't like the marriage coming to an end only have the one way to let their displeasure be known, and that's to vote with their dollar. That's what separates them from the people who continue to buy comics that they endlessly complain about.

Exactly. I've always told myself that Amazing would be the one title I bought even if it got crappy (which it has many times in the last 15 years since I started buying it) so I am very torn about this...but I think if the marriage is kaput with the next issue, I'll vote "Nay." with my dollar. I'd love to read Slott on Spider-Man, even single Peter, but I think such a contrived dismissal of growth in the character is insulting to the reader. So, if the deal with Mephisto goes through, I'm dropping it, though it likely won't have an effect.

Honestly, I'm half convinced that Quesada is a marketing genius and this is all misdirection. One more day could easily be one more day with Aunt May and something happens to make him happy again in brand new day. So I have hope.


However, I can always by the back issues a few months down the road if i drop it

[Tobias Drake]

Exactly. I've always told myself that Amazing would be the one title I bought even if it got crappy (which it has many times in the last 15 years since I started buying it) so I am very torn about this...but I think if the marriage is kaput with the next issue, I'll vote "Nay." with my dollar. I'd love to read Slott on Spider-Man, even single Peter, but I think such a contrived dismissal of growth in the character is insulting to the reader. So, if the deal with Mephisto goes through, I'm dropping it, though it likely won't have an effect.

Honestly, I'm half convinced that Quesada is a marketing genius and this is all misdirection. One more day could easily be one more day with Aunt May and something happens to make him happy again in brand new day. So I have hope.


However, I can always by the back issues a few months down the road if i drop it

And what, exactly, are you voting about? If you don't want to read the story, then don't. But when did it stop being Marvel's story to tell and become your story to decide how you wanted it to go?

Not reading it is one thing, but as a writer myself, to decide that you have the right to tell the writers what you want to happen with their story and their characters is downright offensive. It's exactly what's wrong with what Quesada is doing.

[Sean Whitmore]

And what, exactly, are you voting about? If you don't want to read the story, then don't.

He won't.

There, what are you confused about?


SEAN

[Tobias Drake]

He won't.

There, what are you confused about?


SEAN

I'm confused about people talking about "voting no" and "if sales drop, they'll change it". I can understand not reading the story you're given, and all power to you. But the audacity in trying to tell the writers what they should be writing is what I find problem with.

[Sonicjuce]

He won't.

There, what are you confused about?


SEAN

I'm interested as to what side your on? You have been kinda non existent on a few of the other threads....

[Sean Whitmore]

I'm confused about people talking about "voting no" and "if sales drop, they'll change it". I can understand not reading the story you're given, and all power to you. But the audacity in trying to tell the writers what they should be writing is what I find problem with.

I'm honestly not sure I see the "audacity" in it. If people feel that strongly about the issue, then of course they'd like to see it changed. And not supporting the book in the meantime is their only way to express that. (The only way that matters, anyway)


SEAN

[Sean Whitmore]

I'm interested as to what side your on? You have been kinda non existent on a few of the other threads....

Eh, I got most of the arguing about this issue out of my system months back, when this was all still speculation. :)

In the end, I'd prefer the marriage to stick around, but Brand New Day sounds promising enough that I'm going to stick with it.


SEAN

[Tobias Drake]

Eh...I agree that if people feel strongly about it they should not support it. But I disagree that they should lobby against writers just telling the stories they want to tell.

[DaeJi]

Eh...I agree that if people feel strongly about it they should not support it. But I disagree that they should lobby against writers just telling the stories they want to tell.

Where are people lobbing against writers?! Just because I don't like or support what is happening with Spider-Man, it doesn't mean I'm not going to read the creative teams other books. I like Thor and The Initiative.

[Tobias Drake]

Where are people lobbing against writers?! Just because I don't like or support what is happening with Spider-Man, it doesn't mean I'm not going to read the creative teams other books. I like Thor and The Initiative.

And that's good. It's just when I hear talk about "voting" on the storyline with your dollar, or "if sales drop, they'll make them change it", or such, that's what irks me.

[Brian M.]

I thought Osborn became impudent after Harry was born. :D

Anybody ask Gwen?

[Sean Whitmore]

And that's good. It's just when I hear talk about "voting" on the storyline with your dollar, or "if sales drop, they'll make them change it", or such, that's what irks me.

It seems like you don't have a problem with people actually doing that, since you say you agree. So is it that you just don't like them referring to it that way?


SEAN

[snoopafly]

[QUOTE=Taniwha;5940154]

Do you really think Joey Q's interested in ending the SpiderMarriage so he can start over, have 'em hook up again and get back to dating, then a relationship, monogamy, etc?

Nah, JoeyQ's interested in OneMoreDay OneNightStands, not a long-standing relationship for Spidey. He wants his webswinger to be a webbed swinger.

QUOTE]

Yeah..I agree that this is probably Quesada's thinking. I also find it funny that there are numerous people who don't like Mary Jane. She's been around for a while. Thats quite a long time to fester hate towards a character. Also, where has it been explicitly said that MJ will remember how things were if this reboot were to occur? Based on the comics..all that Mephisto said was that a small part of their souls would know..or something along those lines.

[Sean Whitmore]

Anybody ask Gwen?

Brian, tell everyone your "MJ comes back as the Phoenix" idea. :)


SEAN

[snoopafly]

And that's good. It's just when I hear talk about "voting" on the storyline with your dollar, or "if sales drop, they'll make them change it", or such, that's what irks me.

i get what your saying, but thats also pretty idealistic. it all comes down to what sells the best. if the marriage retcon doesn't equate to solid sales, then it WILL be reverted back to the way things were. thats just how it is unfortunately.

and as far as lobbying against the story because people don't like it..i don't think anyone is doing that..right? if your referring to the overwhelming backlash that is occurring..i don't see anything wrong with that at all. for the comic industry, feedback is critical - positive or negative. if sales rise or fall, i'm sure Marvel wants to know why...especially if sales were to fall and especially for such an iconic character such as spider-man. also, no matter how amazing the potential of the upcoming writing teams are..the fans who are against the retcon of the marriage will not continue on with spider-man. its doesn't have anything to do with the future creative teams but everything with those creative teams working within the confines of what the previous creative established - a single Peter Parker. for me, I'll be way to curious not to check out BND..just to see what all the hype is about. but the concept of retconning the marriage and how its being done is way too much of a hit to what I know as Spider-Man to continue on.

[Frodo-X]

I voted 'wait and see...' because I never trust theories, suspicions, and rumors online, no matter how prevalent and convincing they are.

That said, should One More Day continue it's present course and actually do what it is expected to do, I will not be buying any Spidey books after it.

[Tobias Drake]

It seems like you don't have a problem with people actually doing that, since you say you agree. So is it that you just don't like them referring to it that way?


SEAN

Sorry. I'm an amateur writer myself, and I just get irked by people trying to tell writers what to write rather than just taking the story as given and deciding if they like it or not. Bit of a hot button for me. Whether you like the story or not is a different matter, and you shouldn't spend money on a story you don't like. I just get bothered by people not spending money on it, not because they don't like it, but because by not doing so, it will somehow force the writers to write it the way they want it instead of the way the writers want it. It takes away a writer's freedom to tell the story that he wants to tell, regardless of whether it's necessarily a good story or not.

Does that make sense?

[DaeJi]

Sorry. I'm an amateur writer myself, and I just get irked by people trying to tell writers what to write rather than just taking the story as given and deciding if they like it or not. Bit of a hot button for me. Whether you like the story or not is a different matter, and you shouldn't spend money on a story you don't like. I just get bothered by people not spending money on it, not because they don't like it, but because by not doing so, it will somehow force the writers to write it the way they want it instead of the way the writers want it. It takes away a writer's freedom to tell the story that he wants to tell, regardless of whether it's necessarily a good story or not.

Does that make sense?

I can feel where you're coming from, but comics aren't like other works. You aren't playing in your own sandbox, you're playing in another's. So in comics, you are going to have people telling you how to write some stories; look at that recent post by JMS on OMD. And in comics, the fans have a lot of input on how characters are handled, because if an idea isn't going to sit right with them, the idea is often scraped or retconned away.

[Sean Whitmore]

Sorry. I'm an amateur writer myself, and I just get irked by people trying to tell writers what to write rather than just taking the story as given and deciding if they like it or not. Bit of a hot button for me. Whether you like the story or not is a different matter, and you shouldn't spend money on a story you don't like. I just get bothered by people not spending money on it, not because they don't like it, but because by not doing so, it will somehow force the writers to write it the way they want it instead of the way the writers want it. It takes away a writer's freedom to tell the story that he wants to tell, regardless of whether it's necessarily a good story or not.

Does that make sense?

I definitely get what you're saying. But I don’t think it’s so much a matter of writer’s being forced into things as it is the simple equation of: do more people like what a writer’s doing than dislike it? I mean, any time someone drops a book they’d otherwise buy because of a story point, they’re basically saying “I want the writer to change what they’re doing,” or even “I want a different writer.” (The analogy’s not perfect, since in this case, it isn’t really the writer everyone is disagreeing with)


SEAN

[Chris Nowlin]

Meh. If I was going to stop buying Spider-Man, it would have been after the Final Chapter.

I certainly haven't been able to care about the comics since then.

[a-spidey]

Yes I will buy it and the later issues, i'm a spidey fan since i read comic books and i see no reason why stop now. There were always good and bad stories about spider-man and i guess that won't change in the future.

[DeadXMan]

aye their hearts.

They will now joys of being loved by crowds
the admiration of their peers. but they will still feel empty inside.

and that is why Mespstio kicks ass as the devil

[Don't pee in the (Dead)pool]

:evilsmile

Yeah..I agree that this is probably Quesada's thinking. I also find it funny that there are numerous people who don't like Mary Jane. She's been around for a while. Thats quite a long time to fester hate towards a character. Also, where has it been explicitly said that MJ will remember how things were if this reboot were to occur? Based on the comics..all that Mephisto said was that a small part of their souls would know..or something along those lines.

It has been on several spoiler sites that Mephisto reneges on his deal and Peter and everybody else forgets yet MJ remembers everything and is still really in love with Peter... MJ can't tell Peter though or Mephisto will take Aunt May's soul to Hell.

[Harlock]

I'm confused about people talking about "voting no" and "if sales drop, they'll change it". I can understand not reading the story you're given, and all power to you. But the audacity in trying to tell the writers what they should be writing is what I find problem with.

Sorry calling a BS. Rule number one of commercial writing: Know your audience.

[Stikman13]

Sorry calling a BS. Rule number one of commercial writing: Know your audience.

But I don't think the fans complaining on the messageboards really represent the full audience. I'm sure there are plenty of fans (like myself) who've been dying for the marriage to go away...by hook or by crook. And plenty of others that are indifferent and will continue to buy despite OMD or BND.

[Harlock]

But I don't think the fans complaining on the messageboards really represent the full audience. I'm sure there are plenty of fans (like myself) who've been dying for the marriage to go away...by hook or by crook. And plenty of others that are indifferent and will continue to buy despite OMD or BND.

I have never said I'll stop reading ASM. I also believe messageboard geeks like us are a sort of vocal minority. However, by the same token you expressed, I feel there are likely as many people who didn't mind the marriage or were fans of the marriage and still think bringing in Mephisto to end it was rather poorly conceived as well as lazy.

[Harlock]

The boards ate my reply.

[Mister Mets]

EXACTLY! Pete would totally have told Mephisto to shove it. He would let Aunt May die rather than make a deal with the Devil. Didnt Aunt May already come to him and tell him to leave her alone she was ready to die?
Peter did get ready to tell Mephisto to shove it.
Mary Jane was the one who wanted to hear his offer.

I agree on some levels with everyone's posts. Good stories or not I cant bring myself to support and WASTE my money on a hero that defined much of the values that shaped me as a child, adolescent and adult wrecked. Giving up on Spidey is something I have never done. But I hate to see 20 plus years of stories down the toilet. I totally respect Slott and think he is a great writer but it about more than that for me.
Remember Joey Q- "With great power, comes great responsibility". I know you might have seen that in the Spidey movie but it was in the books long before and if you would ever bother to read any of them, you might understand a little more about Spidey, his history, what works and doesn't and what his fans want and don't want to see happen.
If the story's good (and the art may just be exceptional) your money won't be wasted.

Have to give OMD and BND credit; they're birthing a lot of threads.
I'm thinking some of the guys promising they won't buy BND will buy the books anyway to be able to discuss them.

A few may mostly quit message boards in frustration, starting threads every now and then to ask if anything has changed in the Spider-Man books.

[Mister Mets]

True, but then, I don't think anybody's really expecting BND to be poorly written or drawn. The main reason expressed here for not buying it is in protest against OMD.
I remember one guy on another thread on these boards saying that he'll wait and see if BND is any good, so it's an answer one out of fifty people might choose. And it'll be interesting to see the fans ignoring a very valid option.

Granted, if BND is universally expected to be good, that has to be mentioned any time there's any discussion about it. :D

It is telling that the decision to drop a book the fans think they won't like will have nothing to do with the quality of the upcoming stories, and everything with what some fans want to see happen (or not to happen) to the characters. It's something to remember the next time I see people complaining about the writing or art on Superman.

What's not to say MJ and Peter fall in love all over again in the future? So they wipe out the marriage. No biggie. I have a feeling it'll be back.

And yes, I'm going to pick up BND.
It's certain they'll eventually be back together.

They'll likely break up an year or two afterwards.

And get back together again eventually.

And break up again.

I can feel where you're coming from, but comics aren't like other works. You aren't playing in your own sandbox, you're playing in another's. So in comics, you are going to have people telling you how to write some stories; look at that recent post by JMS on OMD. And in comics, the fans have a lot of input on how characters are handled, because if an idea isn't going to sit right with them, the idea is often scraped or retconned away.
Usually it's the job of the writers to know more than the fans in this regard, and give them something they never knew they wanted. Ed Brubaker's Captain America is one of the most acclaimed comic books out there, but I wonder how fans would have reacted if they knew before it came out that the first issue would end with the Red Skull getting shot and killed by Bucky (or that the third issue would have Bucky killing Nomad.)

[Mister Mets]

You know, it's the supporters of this change who always seem to go on and on about the marriage. Guess what, it's not the marriage. Or, it's not all the marriage, and it's not even mostly the marriage. It's he how and why. Let me let in on something, if the rumors are true Marvel is talking about taking away 20 years of history. 20 frickin years. The last time Marvel did this, we got the Clone Saga.

And then there's the why, because Joe Q. thinks the marriage ages Spider-Man. Guess what? It's the marriage, age, college diploma, and teaching job at his old high school that ages him. I don't want to read about Peter having women troubles and rent troubles and trying to hide his identity from his aunt and working at the Bungle. I've read that all already. It's just retreading old, old ground, and I'm not interested.

So.. if the rumors are true, I'm going to voice my opinion and not buy it. Unlike some fans though, I'm not going to blow a gasket and start a point boycott or website or anything. I'm just going to wait for it all to go back to normal. Which is a shame, because I would be looking forward to the creative teams under normal circumstances. I hope the rumors are false, because I would love to read Slott's Spider-Man, the real Spider-Man, not the retconned one that may come out of One More Day.
The last time Marvel undid the marriage (when Mary Jane was believed dead or moved to California) it was often pretty good, as long as Howard Mackie wasn't writing.

It included....
JMS's Morlun saga
The story where Aunt May learned that Peter Parker was Spider-Man
Paul Jenkins's Fusion storyline
Paul Jenkins's Robot Master/ euthanasia two-parter
The Revenge of the Green Goblin crossover
A few excellent standalone issues by Jenkins.

It coincided with some excellent Tangled Web issues, the first year of Ultimate Spider-Man and the Ultimate Punisher three-parter. Good times for Spider-Man fans.

Its the EIC who's pushing the garbage at us. As long as Joe Q is setting the plots. The Creative team is just following orders not being creative. There won't really be a new creative team around as long as Joe Q keeps destroying the characters we have loved. Editors of fiction are supposed to guide and help them. Joe Q seems to be ignoring that. I have no displeaser now with the current creative team they did their best and had their work mangled by the editor.
Once Peter Parker's single, Quesada will have no reason to get involved in the plotting. The writers will have freedom to do whatever they want with the exception of things editors wouldn't approve of in the plotting stages.

[Harlock]

Usually it's the job of the writers to know more than the fans in this regard, and give them something they never knew they wanted. Ed Brubaker's Captain America is one of the most acclaimed comic books out there, but I wonder how fans would have reacted if they knew before it came out that the first issue would end with the Red Skull getting shot and killed by Bucky (or that the third issue would have Bucky killing Nomad.)

Or that Agent 13 would blow three holes in Caps stomach as he was about to be tried for his part in Civil War while everyone else got a full pardon...

You do make a very valid point there. Captain America 1-25 was one of the best runs ever, bar none. And you know, Brubaker and Captain America (the shiny, do-good patriot's patriot) doesn't sound like a great fit when I look at it without having read the series.

[Mister Mets]

You've asked the question at the core of every single ongoing comic character ever. To solve it, read only finite series from now on.

I suggest "Shade The Changing Man".
I'll add Fallen Angel, Powers and Ex Machina.

So does keeping the SpiderMarriage around. It left room for non-hack writers to write stories about MJ.

Do you really think Joey Q's interested in ending the SpiderMarriage so he can start over, have 'em hook up again and get back to dating, then a relationship, monogamy, etc?

Nah, JoeyQ's interested in OneMoreDay OneNightStands, not a long-standing relationship for Spidey. He wants his webswinger to be a webbed swinger.

And he is a bacon-singularity. Where bacon and comic history goes to cease existence. He's gonna out-clone-saga the Clone Saga.
I think Joe Q's interested in writers being able to show dating, then a relationship (which with Spider-Man would generally be monogamous) and then maybe the break-up, which you can't do with the marriage.

[1WEBHEAD]

Yes, I'll going to be buying the thrice weekly Amazing Spider-Man even though I might not like the way OMD will turn out.

McNiven's art is great and I'm sure Slott is going to kick things off with panels and pages full of energy and excitement. :)

[DaeJi]

The last time Marvel undid the marriage (when Mary Jane was believed dead or moved to California) it was often pretty good, as long as Howard Mackie wasn't writing.

Man you people need to let go of the marriage thing. While I'm against them breaking it, that won't stop me from reading. IT'S NOT THE BREAKING UP OF THE MARRIAGE THAT'S THE PROBLEM. It's how they are doing it, with a huge and stupid retcon, using a guy who warrants an automatic "No." every time he offers something.

[Sonicjuce]

Brian, tell everyone your "MJ comes back as the Phoenix" idea. :)


SEAN

That would be great. How many threads you think we would have about that?

[Tobias Drake]

That would be great. How many threads you think we would have about that?

Just here? I think it would spill into the X-Men board too. And possibly the Marvel Universe board, just for gits and shiggles.

[rZi]

Ive always grown up with peter being hitched, i like the fact that she is his rock...kinda like may. I always love the way JMS wrote her, the past few years she has had more development as a character by joe than multiple other writters have given her over decades. She used to be eye candy...and the women who needed saving but she has become more than that to me anyway.

[Kirayoshi]

Man you people need to let go of the marriage thing. While I'm against them breaking it, that won't stop me from reading. IT'S NOT THE BREAKING UP OF THE MARRIAGE THAT'S THE PROBLEM. It's how they are doing it, with a huge and stupid retcon, using a guy who warrants an automatic "No." every time he offers something. Yes, someone who gets it!

If I got the impression that Joe Q respected his audience, I'd give him the benefit of a doubt. If he were to slowly guide the plotline toward a plausible reason for Peter and MJ to dissolve their relationship, I'd at least hear him out. Instead, he's going to produce a lame retcon.

Consider; MJ was a strong part of Peter's life since the early days of John Romita Sr. Erase her from his life, and the Peter Parker you get is not the same person. Just one example among many; MJ was the one person who stayed behind after Gwen's death to console Peter(in one of her best early moments). Erase that, and what would happen to Peter? But Joe Q seems to think that MJ's influence in Peter's life is negligible. That he'll still be the same Friendly Neighorbood Spider-Man if they never met. He's wanted to break up Peter and MJ in the worst way, and that's just how he's doing it.

At this point, until they retcon the retcon, I don't