Dk2

[king911]

soo, do people generally like it? hate it?
why

[rwe1138]

I give it a solid Thumbs in the Middle. A few good bits, but it's nowhere near as good or as revolutionary as the first.

[king911]

i literally just finished DKR first time

[Choppa]

It was pretty pointless. I mean why bring him back? The first one ended so well.

It's like Romeo and Juliet 2, it'll never be as good as teh original.

[king911]

just finished

it was enjoyable, no where near DKR, art sucked alot!

Issue #1 was the best IMO

[mattx110]

It was pretty pointless. I mean why bring him back? The first one ended so well.

It's like Romeo and Juliet 2, it'll never be as good as teh original.
Or like the 4 awesome sequels to the three musketeers?

[Joe Night]

The art was horrible. I understand that the art in the first wasn't great, but it almost seemed to fit. I didn't like the story too much, there were some good bits here and there though. I like where the original ended though, I would rather have it never be explained what happened after the first one.

[TROUBLEZ]

I didn't like it or buy it.

I did like alot of the ideas like Atom being trapped in a peitri dish but DKR ended perfectly.

Varley is an excellent colorist, but for some reason she chose to use Photoshop, and after seeing the results, looks like she's a beginner at it.

DKR ended in a way that didn't need sequels. Like doing a sequel to Edward Scissorhands.

I didn't like the more ridiculous elements, like Dick Grayson becoming a villain (which was done better in Batman Beyond ), Batman killing, the implication that Batman had something going on with Carrie Kelly...

And the art was a big turn off. Miller to me rarely drew things pretty, but I can't stand his giant footed/handed characters.

[dancj]

the implication that Batman had something going on with Carrie Kelly...
What??? I never saw that in DK2.

Personally I think the book is great. It's not TDKR and it doesn't want to be and there's nothing wrong with that.

[metalhead_dave743]

I didn't like the more ridiculous elements, like Dick Grayson becoming a villain (which was done better in Batman Beyond ), Batman killing, the implication that Batman had something going on with Carrie Kelly...



Wait explain this? I'm talking about the Batman Beyond part.

[filthysize]

?

Dick Grayson never appeared in any episode of Batman beyond or the movie.

[The Xenos]

I think he means Tim. *possible DK2 spoilers* Anyway, yeah. I didn't like the whole Robin thing in DK2. Though if I pretend it's Jason, then I can still enjoy the ending.

Meanwhile I enjoyed the rest of it. It wasn't as good as Dark Knight Returns. Actually, it's a pretty bad or disconnected sequel. Though if you take it as just another crazy Frank Miller DCU future, it was kinda fun.

[Ramiel]

Didn't care for it very much, I don't hold the absolute hate of it that some do, but I guess I was expecting something at least along the lines of DKR but DKSA was so disjointed from the first. I understand what Miller was going for with this, but I don't know I wish he would've just tried to make something more in the vein of DKR. And I agree with some, the art is absolutely awful, but I was never Miller-art fan anyway.

Also, what this Batman-Carrie relationship mentioned earlier, I don't remember that at all

[TROUBLEZ]

Sorry, I should have put a spoiler. I thought it was old enough not to put it.

Just in case,

SPOILER WARNING about Batman Beyond Return of the Joker
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I'm pretty sure that Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker came out before DKSA

In that one, the Joker kidnaps Tim Drake Robin and brainwashes him into a Joker Junior. Batman kills the Joker, but somehow he returns, same DNA and everything in Terrys time. It turns out Joker did something to Tim to take over his body and conscious. It was pretty good, and I think, superior to Millers version of a Robin-Joker.


About DK2, if it was called Return of the Justice League, I think people would have been slightly less critical of it.
I thought it was implied by Grayson Joker that Batman and Carrie had something.

[mattx110]

?

Dick Grayson never appeared in any episode of Batman beyond or the movie.
wrong!!!!!!!! right? "You should try to ask him his nightwing stories".
Am I misremembering that line?

[Ramiel]

Sorry, I should have put a spoiler. I thought it was old enough not to put it.

Just in case,

SPOILER WARNING about Batman Beyond Return of the Joker
.
.
.
.
.
.
.





I'm pretty sure that Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker came out before DKSA

In that one, the Joker kidnaps Tim Drake Robin and brainwashes him into a Joker Junior. Batman kills the Joker, but somehow he returns, same DNA and everything in Terrys time. It turns out Joker did something to Tim to take over his body and conscious. It was pretty good, and I think, superior to Millers version of a Robin-Joker.


About DK2, if it was called Return of the Justice League, I think people would have been slightly less critical of it.
I thought it was implied by Grayson Joker that Batman and Carrie had something.

Return Of The Joker did precede DKSA by about a year, but it's a different situation. In ROTJ it is actually like the DNA of The Joker overtaking Tim and becoming The Joker himself. In DKSA Dick had basically taken the mantle of Joker (kind of, sort of), but it is possible Miller could've gotten the idea from ROTJ.

And as far as Grayson Joker, that was probably a taunt or something, I don't remember anything like that between Carrie and Batman in either DKR or DKSA, it's been a good long while since I've read them, though

[the goddamn batman]

There's far worse comics out there. It's not the greatest, and I can understand people not liking the art... or especially the coloring, but I think it's got some great stuff going on in the story.

I don't get the whole Bruce and Carrie thing people talk about, but then again, the word 'love', to me, doesn't have any exclusivity to sexual relationships. I think that Bruce loved Carrie, but there didn't seem to be anything sexual there in my eyes. And there wasn't any mmention of it that I recall, except from Dick, and he had his own issues. He mentions loving Bruce, but I don't think Miller was making a sexual reference there either.

[Ramiel]

I don't get the whole Bruce and Carrie thing people talk about, but then again, the word 'love', to me, doesn't have any exclusivity to sexual relationships. I think that Bruce loved Carrie, but there didn't seem to be anything sexual there in my eyes. And there wasn't any mmention of it that I recall, except from Dick, and he had his own issues. He mentions loving Bruce, but I don't think Miller was making a sexual reference there either.

Well put, Bruce's love for Carrie is purely like a parental love, in the same way it is for pretty much all the Robins before her.

[PamGrierOverdrive]

I despised the book. It was so horrible, in fact, that if the original book had not been such a thoroughly enjoyable and groundbreaking story, the sequel would have totally put me off the first DKR the way the putrid Matrix sequels put me off the first film.

The artwork looks as if Erik Larsen had drawn it with his eyes closed, and the story was ludicrous and unnecessary.

[Choppa]

I never got what happened to Dick. I remember reading it and being confused. How did he become indestructable like that? And why did he hate Batman? And why did he take on the Joker as a persona?

[OverMaster]

wrong!!!!!!!! right? "You should try to ask him his nightwing stories".
Am I misremembering that line?

A mention isn't the same thing as an actual appearance.

[mattx110]

A mention isn't the same thing as an actual appearance.
It's good enough for me...


Anyway, I think Dick Grayson got shot, and was fired for being negligent/Bruce couldn't handle the guilt.
In DKR world, Bruce and Dick never reconciled, and Dick hated him, and what we have in DKR is just a hint that they don't talk, and neither feel like taking the higher ground, so they keep not talking.

In DKSA, Dick Grayson for some reason though "lemme trust this evil corporation because I'm pissed at Bruce and undergo radical gene therapy". When Bruce took on Jason, and then Carrie, Dick saw it as "This man who I loved as a father fired me, replaced me, and now has some random girl in my spot, and he has genuine feelings toward her" so he went nuts. You can either read the Joker disguise as his way of turning into a "robin-killer", or he's just insane and he knows it'll piss Bruce off. Bruce is still kinda to blame, but all the character development from Dick joining the Titans on is non-existant in this world. Instead he became a jealous sociopath

[The Joker]

Ultimately, the Dick Grayson/Joker idea sucked.

But overall, I quite liked DKSA. I'll always have an affinity for Miller's art, no matter how "ugly" people say it is these days, and the story itself was pretty fun at times. Absolutely loved Plastic Man!

[the goddamn batman]

The Hal Jordan bits were fantastic. The Atom and Flash were both great. Bruce and Lex there at the end, that was terrific. Superman, I really enjoyed what Miller did with Supers in DKSA. I don't much care for Superman in general, so it didn't bother me like it bothers some people. Besides, who he is in both DK books sets up the end of DKSA. Especially the bit with him finding the locket with Lois.


One thing about DKSA is that I'd LOVE to see it in B&W. I think the line art is great, I just don't care for the coloring much.

[the goddamn batman]

The artwork looks as if Erik Larsen had drawn it with his eyes closed, and the story was ludicrous and unnecessary.

It's teh Kirby influence. Erik has a very large Kirby influence, and obviously Miller does too. Miller just applied it more in DKSA... and exaggerated it.

[Agent_Torpor]

One of the best ever. I re-read this after a few years and it's as fresh, invigorating, and laugh out loud funny as a shower with Irish Spring.

God bless the whole Superchix subplot.