Batman and the Outsiders #2 Spoilers???

[Samuraixsithlord]

ok so has anyone from canada read the issue yet. does Batgirl show up at the end. spoilers please and with as much detail as possible

[Batman was taken]

Since you asked so nicely....

I don't know how to do spoiler tags, so...

***SPOILERS****
Rex helps Catwoman and Katana get away from the OMAC
Thunder is complaining to Batman that she should be there
Marian Manhunter breaks into some sort of information room to ..get... info...
Katana, Catwoman, Rex fight the omac
Grace shows up to help, they beat it by shoving a ton of volts through it via Rex.
Catwoman bails, says she and Batman are even now
MM and Batman are talking afterwords. Says that MM told the JLA what's going on, and that Batman will have to do this without his aid and counsel.
Grace, Katana, and Rex are sitting around, talking about a permanent base..
SOMEOE shows up and throws Thunder through the window, turn the page and...

Batgirl says 'I was invited.'

***End Spoilers***

It was a pretty good issue. The fight scene with the OMAC is very visual with beautiful art, so buy the issue!!

[Samuraixsithlord]

damn so Batgirl just attacked Thunder and threw her through a window? I don't see Grace liking that one bit.

[Batman was taken]

Yeah... You don't acutally see the fight (I assume it was a fight), as it happens outside, off panel... You just see Thunder crashing through a window.

[Samuraixsithlord]

Wow Batgirl sure knows how to make friends. I'm assuming that Thunder attacked her and she was just defending herself. If Batgirls back to her old self i don't see her attacking someone without reason

[wes_rk]

that: "I was invited" lines makes me think that Batgirl showed up, Thunder saw her and though about taking out one of the bad guys, Batgirl fought her off, and then said: I was invited.

Anyways, cool about batgirl coming back, too bad catwoman and J'onn had to leave.. ohh and we still have to see Ollie!

[Samuraixsithlord]

i still wish Owen was still on the team. Lot of friction between the two given the fact that Cass tortured him for hours and then tried to kill Supergirl.


Hopefully #4 will go into what happened to her after Titans East and how Batman found her

[Captain Jim]

I don't know how to do spoiler tags, so...

1. Spoiler tags aren't necessary if you say "spoilers" in the thread title.

2. Spoiler tags are done like this [spoil ] [/spoil ] (without the space).

[carabas]

Pffft... Way to make an entrance, throwing the physically weakest, least skilled team member through a window, when she could have done the same to any other member of the team except Metamorpho (but including Batman).

[Samuraixsithlord]

Pffft... Way to make an entrance, throwing the physically weakest, least skilled team member through a window, when she could have done the same to any other member of the team except Metamorpho (but including Batman).


I think she would have had a hard time throwing Grace or hurting grace for that matter

[Batman was taken]

1. Spoiler tags aren't necessary if you say "spoilers" in the thread title.

2. Spoiler tags are done like this [spoil ] [/spoil ] (without the space).

Ah, thanks. *Files away for future use... till the next time I forget:) *

[carabas]

I think she would have had a hard time throwing Grace or hurting grace for that matterHurting? maybe not. Tossing through a window? No problem.

[ChthonicSpirit]

I think she would have had a hard time throwing Grace or hurting grace for that matter

You'd be surprised. She and her mom have a pretty good track record for fighting people with powers.

[Xero]

Pffft... Way to make an entrance, throwing the physically weakest, least skilled team member.....

Thunder is the second most powerful member on the team behind Grace, falling forty stories won't even leave a scratch on her.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Thunder is the second most powerful member on the team behind Grace, falling forty stories won't even leave a scratch on her.

Thunder's tough, but she's hardly the second most powerful. She hits really hard. That's the extent of her abilities. J'ohn, Rex, hell, I'd even put Katana ahead of Thunder in terms of overall power as she has a sword that can cut anything, hurt magic and has the skill to apply said sword as needed. Thunder's barely above average in a fight.

[carabas]

Thunder is the second most powerful member on the team behind Grace, falling forty stories won't even leave a scratch on her.I don't disagree per se, but she's been portrayed as a completely clueles wannabe since Winnick left. As it stands now, and like the writer paying no attention to continuity whatsoever, Thunder is the wuss of the team.

[Chuck Dixon]

Trained by Batman.
Trained by Shiva.
Cassie could throw Darkseid through a window if she caught him by surprise.
And Thunder was caught by surprise.

[bert]

Trained by Batman.
Trained by Shiva.
Cassie could throw Darkseid through a window if she caught him by surprise.
And Thunder was caught by surprise.

Chuck --

it sold out at my comics shop. . so I didn't get my issue :(

I have to wait until the re-order (hopefully next week).

annoying for me, but hopefully good news for you!

[The Cool Thatguy]

I don't disagree per se, but she's been portrayed as a completely clueles wannabe since Winnick left. As it stands now, and like the writer paying no attention to continuity whatsoever, Thunder is the wuss of the team.


Ya know, I think people are mistaking Thunder for some other character. She managed to side step some rookie mistakes because she knew she lacked experience and hooked up with senior heroes who taught her the ropes.

But that hardly makes her a pro. She's an above average heroine and while that might do on other teams, it doesn't work on the Outsiders. They all have years of experience backed up by training and skill. And while Dixon's Outsiders isn't perfect, I'm inclined to agree with what Batman says. Thunder ought to go.

[Starba]

So Batgirl's competent again! And in the old costume, boots and all! Glee!!!:D :D :D

I've always been a sucker for the Outsiders characters and format, so I probably would have picked this up anyway, but it's just this much more awesome now.

You've got a lot of goodwill here, Chuck. :)

[Samuraixsithlord]

Thunder was conscious when Batgirl threw her through the window, so her "i was invited" remark was directed at Thunder

[X-23vsBatgirl]

And while Dixon's Outsiders isn't perfect, I'm inclined to agree with what Batman says. Thunder ought to go.
But then we don't get any more makie-outie-huggy scenes with Grace and Anissa. :(

[Chuck Dixon]

But then we don't get any more makie-outie-huggy scenes with Grace and Anissa. :(

Let's not assume.

[pariah-1972]

I have a question ! what is with Thunders "tude" has she always been written like this? considering her father was a teacher and an assistant to the president and Black Lightening has insisted that she get a college education wouldn't she at least be showing some common sense?
i don't want to make accusations when i am not familiar with the character but her whole angry stick sort of bothers me in a lot of ways.

[carabas]

I have a question ! what is with Thunders "tude" has she always been written like this?She was never written like this before. If anything, it was always Grace who was the screw-up with the discipline problem, with Thunder taking superheroing more serious than any of the other Outsiders rookies.

She obviously suffers from the same disease that caused Batgirl's sudden megalomaniac Bond-villain attitude, although with somewhat milder symptoms.

[pariah-1972]

She was never written like this before. If anything, it was always Grace who was the screw-up with the discipline problem, with Thunder taking superheroing more serious than any of the other Outsiders rookies.

She obviously suffers from the same disease that caused Batgirl's sudden megalomaniac Bond-villain attitude, although with somewhat milder symptoms.What disease is that?
i don't really want to cry racism especially when i don't know anything about this character besides what i read on wikipedia but her background doesn't say "ghetto" to me so i am not sure why she is acting like one?
if she wants to be on the team so bad getting in Bats face and calling him names is obviously not the best way to do it.

[Starba]

She was never written like this before. If anything, it was always Grace who was the screw-up with the discipline problem, with Thunder taking superheroing more serious than any of the other Outsiders rookies.

She obviously suffers from the same disease that caused Batgirl's sudden megalomaniac Bond-villain attitude, although with somewhat milder symptoms.

Well, it's not completely unprecedented for Thunder to botch a mission because of reaching an emotional breaking point. Didn't she jump the gun on revealing her identity in her undercover mission during OYL? Granted, she had to put up with a lot of malarky to get to that point, but...I could be misremembering the arc, though. It's been awhile. But after reading that it seemed to me that Winick was the one who began Thunder's personality reinvention. It's not like she's been static this whole time (no pun intended). In Batman's team she'd arguably be put in similar situations rather than straight superheroics, and what's to say she wouldn't do the same thing all over again?

[IamtheRock3]

well also it aint like Batman not being the nicest guy himself

Batman say it HIS team...but really is. How long sense he been an outsider, what Years. nightwing was running it, and then he left, and came back, left came back.

Batman just comes in, starts firing and hiring people (non PAID people by the way) and runs the thing

You be a little miffed if this dude just fire you out of the blue, and talking down to you

Heck I if he did that to Hal, he may get ONE PUNCHED

[The Cool Thatguy]

She was never written like this before. If anything, it was always Grace who was the screw-up with the discipline problem, with Thunder taking superheroing more serious than any of the other Outsiders rookies.

She obviously suffers from the same disease that caused Batgirl's sudden megalomaniac Bond-villain attitude, although with somewhat milder symptoms.

To be fair, that's basic super hero stuff. Bats has changed the Outsiders' game plan and as a result, Thunder is completely unsuited to serve on the team. Grace has mellowed while Thunder's been rendered useless by the changes. It's only natural that it would rankle her some.

[pariah-1972]

I don't see how Thunder is unsuited for the team? if she would act like a young woman instead of an idiot with an attitude she could fit in.

as for Bats being a a dick thats par for the course but he did say he was trying to give Thunder a chance but she had to get in his face and be all belligerant.

if you come into a new job (which even tho she has been on the outsiders before this is a brand new team for all intents and purposes)
and they don't put you immediately on drive thru are you going to get in the managers face and call him names and yell at him?

that seems very immature to me at best.
one would think that the daughter of Black Lightening would know better, i can't imagine her father being to proud of the way she is acting.:(

[IamtheRock3]

I don't see how Thunder is unsuited for the team? if she would act like a young woman instead of an idiot with an attitude she could fit in.

as for Bats being a a dick thats par for the course but he did say he was trying to give Thunder a chance but she had to get in his face and be all belligerant.

if you come into a new job (which even tho she has been on the outsiders before this is a brand new team for all intents and purposes)
and they don't put you immediately on drive thru are you going to get in the managers face and call him names and yell at him?

that seems very immature to me at best.
one would think that the daughter of Black Lightening would know better, i can't imagine her father being to proud of the way she is acting.:(

Wel dont think thunder

REALLY going to get kicked off, Sure she comes aorund

Just for the sake of th story someone got to be the voice of DECENT. She get over it. Also one of batman picks did just jump her and tossed her through a window

heck even nightwing didnt want to be part of the team

[carabas]

as for Bats being a a dick thats par for the course.(It used to be, but he got better. In Outsiders, Batman is as out of character as Thunder is.

What disease is that?
i don't really want to cry racism...Writers who didn't even read the last arc or two (hell, I'd settle for last issue) that the character was in (or did, but chose to casually ignore it).
Where the frell are you pulling racism from?

[pariah-1972]

It used to be, but he got better. In Outsiders, Batman is as out of character as Thunder is.

Writers who didn't even read the last arc or two (hell, I'd settle for last issue) that the character was in (or did, but chose to casually ignore it).
Where the frell are you pulling racism from?Well there is that Stereotype of black women from the ghetto or the hood that are very belligerent and angry and always getting in peoples faces.

[carabas]

Well there is that Stereotype of black women from the ghetto or the hood that are very belligerent and angry and always getting in peoples faces.I don't see her as being portrayed as belligerent and angry (which always was Grace's default behaviour, and Thunder has always contrasted that nicely). She's just being portrayed as a pod person. Complete personality transplant. Just like Cass. And Batman too. Well, Batman has a character regression rather than a transplant.

[Nate Palm]

Just for the sake of th story someone got to be the voice of [DISSENT].

Exactly! It's called conflict Pariah.

if you come into a new job (which even tho she has been on the outsiders before this is a brand new team for all intents and purposes)
and they don't put you immediately on drive thru are you going to get in the managers face and call him names and yell at him?

See man Outsiders isn't real life though. If it was everyone would just stand around pleasantly talking and then gossip about each other behind their backs. A story needs conflict.

It used to be, but he got better. In Outsiders, Batman is as out of character as Thunder is.

It was a mistake for DC to ever have tried to take the dick out of Batman.

[IamtheRock3]

although can see how thunder fans get mad Thunder the FALL GIRL to create Decent


Remember being peeve when Batman was that voice in GREEN LATERN recharge, and everyone was acting like he was craaaaaaaazy.



But I got over it. Sure they will to

[pariah-1972]

Exactly! It's called conflict Pariah.



See man Outsiders isn't real life though. If it was everyone would just stand around pleasantly talking and then gossip about each other behind their backs. A story needs conflict.



I was a mistake for DC to ever have tried to take the dick out of Batman.I feel like a good writer can create good conflict, i respect Chuck a lot this is the first thing i have read that has disappointed me even a little.
i'm hoping she either starts acting like a mature adult or she leaves,
cause her attitude is seriously wearing on my nerves after only two issues.
i'm sure her and Bats can work things out somehow, he should give her a chance to prove herself in the field.
she doesn't have to be all nice and sweet to Bats but it is his team and all she should show him some respect if she wants to stay on, i feel like he is being respectful towards her in comparison even if he hasn't really given her a chance to prove her worthyness.

[IamtheRock3]

dont worry sure they come arond

Although thinking you letting bats off the hook a little to easy on his jerkiness

and I LIKE batman

[pariah-1972]

dont worry sure they come arond

Although thinking you letting bats off the hook a little to easy on his jerkiness

and I LIKE batmanWell it's his team if he wants to hire only super hero's who won't question him thats his choice really.
and compared to the way she is acting i don't think hes being that much of a jerk, but i do think he could be nicer.

[Fatguy]

I am surprised by how much I am LOVING this series so far. Surprised because I didnt care for the previous Outsiders series much, and only decided to pick this up because I'm a sucker for a series relaunch and I love Martian Manhunter dearly.

I'm INCREDIBLY disappointed that MM wont be around :( But, its almost made up for by Batgirl being on the team. I'm really looking forward to next issue.

[IamtheRock3]

Well it's his team if he wants to hire only super hero's who won't question him thats his choice really.
and compared to the way she is acting i don't think hes being that much of a jerk, but i do think he could be nicer.

Sense when did he own the team though

Didnt he leave the outsider YEARS ago, and thier doing there own thing.

Then he just comes in and say it my team. I mean did he officialy own it

I mean dont think anyone getting paid or anything

[pariah-1972]

Sense when did he own the team though

Didnt he leave the outsider YEARS ago, and thier doing there own thing.

Then he just comes in and say it my team. I mean did he officialy own it

I mean dont think anyone getting paid or anythingWell he founded it and apparently Nightwing either seems to agree that its his or doesn't want to fight with him over it,
but it's not like he had it trademarked or anything.:p

[carabas]

Sense when did he own the team though

Didnt he leave the outsider YEARS ago, and thier doing there own thing.
Well he founded it and apparently Nightwing either seems to agree that its his or doesn't want to fight with him over it,
BAtman's Outsiders disbanded years ago.
The current Outsiders are not in any way Batman's team (until three issues ago anyway).
The new Outsiders was put together by Roy Harper (who then got editorially removed because Brad Meltzer wanted him on JLA).

What happened was that Batman forgot he had mellowed a bit since Infinite Crisis, barged in, kicked Nightwing out, and started acting as if this was still the oriinal Outsiders that he had put together, in order to boost sales.

It's editorially driven writing at it worst. Well, not as bad as Spider-Man: One More Day or Robin: OneYear Later, but still quite bad.

[The Cool Thatguy]

BAtman's Outsiders disbanded years ago.
The current Outsiders are not in any way Batman's team (until three issues ago anyway).
The new Outsiders was put together by Roy Harper (who then got editorially removed because Brad Meltzer wanted him on JLA).

What happened was that Batman forgot he had mellowed a bit since Infinite Crisis, barged in, kicked Nightwing out, and started acting as if this was still the oriinal Outsiders that he had put together, in order to boost sales.

It's editorially driven writing at it worst. Well, not as bad as Spider-Man: One More Day or Robin: OneYear Later, but still quite bad.

Err, that's not entirely correct. Nightwing handed the reigns over to Bruce, admitting he wasn't cut out for this kind of work. Bruce isn't just stepping up and going 'mine!'

[Captain Jim]

I really think some of the rough edges are do to the last minute switch from Tony Bedard to Chuck Dixon. Tony's team was already in place by Outsiders #50 (and does anybody remember that Thunder was already out before Dixon ever came along?). Then Tony was taken off the book and Chuck put on at the very last minute. Chuck couldn't ignore the set-up for Tony's book, but at the same time, editorial mandated the removal of two of Tony's characters. Not the best way to begin a new series. Given everything that happened, I don't think things have been too bad.

[pariah-1972]

I really think some of the rough edges are do to the last minute switch from Tony Bedard to Chuck Dixon. Tony's team was already in place by Outsiders #50 (and does anybody remember that Thunder was already out before Dixon ever came along?). Then Tony was taken off the book and Chuck put on at the very last minute. Chuck couldn't ignore the set-up for Tony's book, but at the same time, editorial mandated the removal of two of Tony's characters. Not the best way to begin a new series. Given everything that happened, I don't think things have been too bad.

Why did they take Tony off the book? I would like to read Outsiders #50 if it isn't being written by that real world guy.

[Captain Jim]

Why did they take Tony off the book?

They didn't really say. I think Chuck just said it was something about them not liking the direction he was taking it. I'm very happy to have Chuck on the book, but feel bad for Tony, who I think is also an excellent writer. He has an arc coming in Batman Confidential beginning in January.

I would like to read Outsiders #50 if it isn't being written by that real world guy.

Not sure what you mean..."real world guy"? Outsiders #50 is written by Tony.

[Chuck Dixon]

Tony Bedard got NONE of the blame for the shelving of BATO's initial inception. No one involved thought he'd given less than 150% (which is all that guy knows HOW to give). It just wasn't becoming what editorial wanted from the book. I could go further but it's kind of inside baseball. Trust me, there were no bad guys here. The marriage just wasn't working so they called it quits before they had kids.
Personally, I'd love to have seen Tony on this. The guy writes an awesome ensemble book. But he's got another project he's working on that he assures me is very cool.

[pariah-1972]

The marriage just wasn't working so they called it quits before they had kidsThat metaphor cracks me up:D

[4thHorseman]

To be honest, I've never gotten interested in anything Bedard has ever written to my knowledge. So I'm glad Dixon is on the book. I've personally liked everything he's done from Batman, to Robin, to the Conner Hawke mini, to Grifter/Midnight.

I've always enjoyed the writing he has done, and I'm glad he's on the new Outsiders book.

[Captain Jim]

To be honest, I've never gotten interested in anything Bedard has ever written to my knowledge.

Too bad; his Negation was one of the absolute best books at CrossGen. Since he's come to DC, his work on the the Black Canary mini was fantastic, as was his several issue stint on Birds of Prey. I dont read Legion of Super Heroes, but I've heard very good things about his work on that book as well. I love Chuck's work and am glad to have him on BATO, but Tony does great stuff too.

[Fatguy]

Too bad; his Negation was one of the absolute best books at CrossGen.

Negation was amazing.

/misses CrossGen

[4thHorseman]

Too bad; his Negation was one of the absolute best books at CrossGen. Since he's come to DC, his work on the the Black Canary mini was fantastic, as was his several issue stint on Birds of Prey. I dont read Legion of Super Heroes, but I've heard very good things about his work on that book as well. I love Chuck's work and am glad to have him on BATO, but Tony does great stuff too.

I've read some of his work he's done at DC like the Canary mini, a few issues of Birds of Prey, think only one issue of LOSH, and I think he did an issue of Supergirl didn't he? For some reason, none of it has really clicked with me *shrugs*.

[DonC]

Not sure what you mean..."real world guy"? Outsiders #50 is written by Tony.


Judd Winick's first claim to fame was appearing on the MTV show The Real World.

[The Xenos]

Eh. I'm not a fan of Todd Winick's work at DC. I did like his stuff like Barry Ween at Oni, though. Wish he'd go back to that. (I know his name is Judd. Don't ask.)

Meanwhile, it's nice to see both Chuck and Batgirl / Cass back. Meanwhile again, things seem to be getting off on the wrong foot. Not that the story's bad, it's just kinda awkward in and out of the story. We got Tony leaving writing. Though as stated, that was amicable.

While inside the books, things are a bit less amicable. We have Thunder stomping off. We also have Batgirl later tossing her through a window. Even Catwoman seemed to leave in a huff. A bit awkward for introductions and not what I expected, but then again it lends an interesting tone to the team.

[carabas]

Err, that's not entirely correct. Nightwing handed the reigns over to Bruce, admitting he wasn't cut out for this kind of work. Bruce isn't just stepping up and going 'mine!'Yes and no. In Winnick's #49, that is what happened.
But in the Five of a Kind thingy and Bedard's #50, that pretty much gets ignored, and he really is pretty much going "Mine!", to the point of kicking out Dick, or at least pointing out in no uncertain terms that he just isn't cut out for the Outsiders.

[pariah-1972]

Yes and no. In Winnick's #49, that is what happened.
But in the Five of a Kind thingy and Bedard's #50, that pretty much gets ignored, and he really is pretty much going "Mine!", to the point of kicking out Dick, or at least pointing out in no uncertain terms that he just isn't cut out for the Outsiders.I wonder how this is going to affect Nightwings self esteem?

[carabas]

Nightwing has self-esteem?

[Captain Jim]

I wonder how this is going to affect Nightwings self esteem?

It won't. He left on good terms.

[pariah-1972]

It won't. He left on good terms.Well he maybe on good terms with Batman, i read that he screwed up and got the Outsiders in trouble and Bats had to bail them out somehow and Bats told him he wasn't cut out for leading a team which honestly is pure b.s.

But that still has to cut him down, since he always seems to be in Batmans shadow, although he handles it pretty well it doesn't seem like he is ever going to be on the Justice League unlike his other friends.
i don't know i've always felt like Nightwing should be on the Justice League since he gets along with everyone and plays nice with others which Batman isn't always good at.
Kid Flash got to take over his mentor's place and so has Aresnal but in my mind noone is more deserving than Nikghtwing,
he was one of the most popular and well known sidekicks and has taken a lot of heat for that silly outfit he wore when he was a kid.
and most people outside of the comic books don't even know he has grown up and has matured into a responsible well adjusted person.


sorry for the rant Jim i just feel like DC is not showing him enough respect.

[sabongero]

Alright...I hope that this series (BatO) wil bring back Batgirl (Cassandra Cain) into prominence in the DC Universe. She is my favortie female superhero in the DC Universe.

Do any of you think that Cass will be a major character in this series ?

[Starba]

Alright...I hope that this series (BatO) wil bring back Batgirl (Cassandra Cain) into prominence in the DC Universe. She is my favortie female superhero in the DC Universe.

Do any of you think that Cass will be a major character in this series ?

Considering her Batman issues will be handled in Detective Comics instead of Outsiders, I kind of doubt it. I do expect Cass to kick a lot of ass, though, and frankly that's good enough for me.

[sabongero]

Considering her Batman issues will be handled in Detective Comics instead of Outsiders, I kind of doubt it. I do expect Cass to kick a lot of ass, though, and frankly that's good enough for me.

Thanks for the info. And as long as she KICKS MAJOR BOOTY. It's fine by me.

[Samuraixsithlord]

Considering her Batman issues will be handled in Detective Comics instead of Outsiders, I kind of doubt it. I do expect Cass to kick a lot of ass, though, and frankly that's good enough for me.

You are correct sir. There'll be a Detective comics fill in issue that has Batman confronting Cass about her involvement in the League of Assassins. He also said that she will either say or do something that will make Batman trust her again and he'll invite her to the Outsiders.

Got i want them to bring back the Batgirl series. She's also my favorite female superhero. What they did to her in Robin was just wrong

[Starba]

You are correct sir. There'll be a Detective comics fill in issue that has Batman confronting Cass about her involvement in the League of Assassins. He also said that she will either say or do something that will make Batman trust her again and he'll invite her to the Outsiders.

Got i want them to bring back the Batgirl series. She's also my favorite female superhero. What they did to her in Robin was just wrong

"Ma'am" actually, but yes, I'm all for the return of the Batgirl series, too. I haven't yet heard a premise to drum up non-fan excitement, but there sure are a lot of issues that need exploring. Since Cass is such a silent character, she's basically crippled in books that don't tell the story from her point of view. I'm not a bit surprised when I hear people who haven't read her book say they don't understand what all the fuss is about.

But Cass dishing it out on a team where at least some members trust and understand her? I can dig that, too. :D

[drwho]

Read this and I really liked it. The 5 of a kind one shots turned me off to the book, but I'm glad I gave it a second look. I like Metamorphos personality so far a lot more in this series. He is a lot more likable a character. Also the ending with Bat Girl showing up putting a beat down on Thunder was pretty unexpected and shocking. The art has also been good. I was a little annoyed that the series is already bringing back Brother I. There has got to be more stuff going on in the world. Cat Woman seemed a little annoying here so I'm glad she is now gone and forced out of the title because I wouldn't like the way Dixon was writing her here.

[Captain Jim]

I hate to say this, because I'm a fan of Chuck's, but I also think Catwoman was portrayed out of character here

[CYOTI]

i read that he screwed up and got the Outsiders in trouble Totally false, Checkmate screwed the pooch courtesy of Amanda Waller. Not Nightwing's fault that he can't fight off the monsters created on Oolong Island.

it doesn't seem like he is ever going to be on the Justice League unlike his other friends. He was in the League. He just decided to quit afterwards.

[pariah-1972]

Totally false, Checkmate screwed the pooch courtesy of Amanda Waller. Not Nightwing's fault that he can't fight off the monsters created on Oolong Island.

He was in the League. He just decided to quit afterwards.I really don't know what you are talking about cause thats not what wikipedia says.

[CYOTI]

Wikipedia also said that John Seigenthaler also helped murder JFK so nuff said.

[pariah-1972]

Wikipedia also said that John Seigenthaler also helped murder JFK so nuff said.Well what you said made absolutely no sense and the wikipedia version did.
i could read the issue i am sure but i really don't care for Winnicks writing on anything DC related.

[CYOTI]

So you didn't bother reading the comic, you got a summary from a second hand resource and now you are treating it not the comic as the primary source. Absolutely laughable.

[pariah-1972]

So you didn't bother reading the comic, you got a summary from a second hand resource and now you are treating it like a primary source. Absolutely laughable.Rather than believe some ranting fanboy ?
i'll take my chances with wikipedia anyday.

[pariah-1972]

I'm not even contradicting you i'm just saying the wikipedia version made more sense than what you said.

[carabas]

Rather than believe some ranting fanboy ?
i'll take my chances with wikipedia anyday.
Wikipedia also says that Warren Ellis moved Iron Man's origin from Korea to the first Gulf War. Which is pertinently untrue.

Anybody can make Wiki entries, and especially on subjects like this, there is little to no fact checking involved by the people who run Wikipedia..