What are Cho’s options?

[mikekerr3]

1. Turn himself in and register.

a. Then he has a choice of working for people he knows to be evil. Without choice its slavery, not employment.

b. Or becoming lobotimsed. His power is intelligence. Taking away a man right to think is an abomination.

C. Stand trial. If he lives that long, so far we have seen two trials, on defendant was mistreated in prison then shot, the other was assasinated.

2. Hide, that doesn’t seem to to have worked too well. He iss being tracked down by an organization that just recently attempted genocide(Silent war), runs a torture facilities (The Cube and 42) , uses Suicide bombers and ,He suspects, may have killed his family.

3. Fight, the worst that can happen there is the options above. Death is often not the worst that can happen.

[Thursaiz]

Or, just hang on to his new friend Hercules. As one of the strongest heroes on earth, Hercules is quite a threat, and I'm sure that Cho might last a while if he is the one doing the thinking.

[jackolover]

I think Cho, now has to go after the ones who killed his family, and if he finds out that is shield, then go after Maria Hill or Nick Fury.

As for Chos options - he should stay on the run and hide, like Fury is right now. Go undercover and sabotage Shield where he can.

[TotalWorldDomination]

I think Cho, now has to go after the ones who killed his family, and if he finds out that is shield, then go after Maria Hill or Nick Fury.

As for Chos options - he should stay on the run and hide, like Fury is right now. Go undercover and sabotage Shield where he can.
Or, he could register and actualy do some good in this world, rather then attempting to distroy an orginzation that singlehandedly prevents most acts of super-terrorism from happening on a daily basis.

[ivesaidway2much]

Or, he could register and actualy do some good in this world, rather then attempting to distroy an orginzation that singlehandedly prevents most acts of super-terrorism from happening on a daily basis.Yeah they were really effective at stopping genocide in Attilan, in addition to the gendocide and slave labor they prevented in the Savage Land. I can't imagine why Cho wouldn't trust them.

[jackolover]

Or, he could register and actually do some good in this world, rather then attempting to destroy an organization that singlehandedly prevents most acts of super-terrorism from happening on a daily basis.

Yeah, but everybody has tried to kill him so far, so, I don't see the kid cooperating right now. There is the big trust thing that Cho has trouble with. It's easier to keep your enemies off balance than trust them to do righ by you, and we all know what happens in Avengers Initiative. You can't trust those snakes, and surely Cho has seen this already at Camp Hammond.

[Drdmx]

Or, he could register and actualy do some good in this world, rather then attempting to distroy an orginzation that singlehandedly prevents most acts of super-terrorism from happening on a daily basis.

You mean.... what the heroes were doing before the SHRA?

[DaeJi]

I choose die. Is that one of the options? I choose die.

[TotalWorldDomination]

Yeah they were really effective at stopping genocide in Attilan, in addition to the gendocide and slave labor they prevented in the Savage Land. I can't imagine why Cho wouldn't trust them.

The Savage Land thing is Skrulls, something Tony and most of SHEILD are working to root out right now (and incidentally if Cho was as smart as he claims to be he'd be very useful in the Anti-Skrull corruption effort, esp. since he's willing to question authority).

As for Attilan... I assume your talking about Silent War, but I can't recall Genocide there (or in the savage land for that matter). The Silent War was a war between two sovereign powers, one of which attacked the other (and lets point out that Attilan is not part of the UN and thus SHEILD has no authority to assist them in any manner, especially when the "nation" in question is a state sponsor of terrorism)

But my biggest issue with your point is the simple fact that Cho knows none of that. At all. He is privy to NONE of those events, so they can't exactly be the reason he'd not go work with them.

Yeah, but everybody has tried to kill him so far, so, I don't see the kid cooperating right now. There is the big trust thing that Cho has trouble with. It's easier to keep your enemies off balance than trust them to do righ by you, and we all know what happens in Avengers Initiative. You can't trust those snakes, and surely Cho has seen this already at Camp Hammond.

While I agree with you in general, that he has no reason to trust, he has not seen the events of Avengers the Initative and has never been to Camp Hammond (as far as I know). If he had, that might give him an actual reason not to trust rather then "AUTHORITY BAD! CHO SMASH AUTHORITY FIGURES!"

You mean.... what the heroes were doing before the SHRA?

And what they're still doing now, more effectively and responsibly in fact :p

I choose die. Is that one of the options? I choose die.

I change my answer. Die is much better. Or get written by someone other the Pak first, then die if he stays insanely irritating and Mary-Sueriffic.

[jackolover]

The Savage Land thing is Skrulls, something Tony and most of SHEILD are working to root out right now (and incidentally if Cho was as smart as he claims to be he'd be very useful in the Anti-Skrull corruption effort, esp. since he's willing to question authority).

The Skrull thing would be another reason for Cho to be suspicious right now. Cho may be able to help, but he will do it from the sidelines








While I agree with you in general, that he has no reason to trust, he has not seen the events of Avengers the Initiative and has never been to Camp Hammond (as far as I know). If he had, that might give him an actual reason not to trust rather then "AUTHORITY BAD! CHO SMASH AUTHORITY FIGURES!"


Though we may not have seen Chos full range of interests, there is the matter that Cho had been looking for the organization that killed his family and that might have led him to all sorts of information. Cho has been unsuccessful in finding the murderers, but that doesn't mean he hasn't tracked down various organizations and incidents all over the Marvel Universe, which may include the X-Universe.

[Kevinroc]

Quite frankly, SHIELD had no basis for hunting Cho down. They have no proof that he has super powers of any kind.

[TotalWorldDomination]

Though we may not have seen Chos full range of interests, there is the matter that Cho had been looking for the organization that killed his family and that might have led him to all sorts of information. Cho has been unsuccessful in finding the murderers, but that doesn't mean he hasn't tracked down various organizations and incidents all over the Marvel Universe, which may include the X-Universe.

He seems to have done almost none of the "Looking for my parents killers" and more "Lets help the hulk beat people up" lately. Still, we have no clear evidence he knows about ANY of corruptions in SHEILD or in the Initiative. The fact that he hasn't smugly brought them up to someone by now is a vague indication that he's got no idea they are happening.

Quite frankly, SHIELD had no basis for hunting Cho down. They have no proof that he has super powers of any kind.

Aiding and Abetting acts of superhuman crime and mass property damage. Pretty good reason to put out a warrant. Oh, there was also that SHEILD helicarier he helped destroy.

[Drdmx]

Oh I see. So more effectively as in implementing villains as bounty hunters, hunting down those you call friend, pissing off an Asgardian God, and killing a living Icon of the country you swear to protect. Gotcha. All of this would have happened much more irresponsibly if it wasnt for the SHRA.

[Omega Alpha]

I choose die. Is that one of the options? I choose die.

That's a great idea!

[mikekerr3]

Shield was complicit in the suicide bombing of a city. Attacks on populations have been forbidden, as primary target, since Just after WWII.

If Shield was indeed an UM organization they would have helped The Inhuman's in the Silent War as they we trying to recover stolen property that was needed for their culture to survive.

The Cube has no possible excuse, and since Nuremberg the leader of an organization are responsible or the organizations acts.

If Cho could hack into Shields systems well enough to find out about the kidnapping of the hulk, The other things can be presumed to be just as easy. He got past Reed Richard's security without any problems

The person Tony Stark sent to talked to Him began the conversation with a Super powered attack on a kidm a puppy and a Non-Super powered Woman. That would breed trust.

Shield was in charge of Captain America's security

Anyway, who in the superhero community would really trust an organization that has people called Cape Killers.

[TotalWorldDomination]

Shield was complicit in the suicide bombing of a city. Attacks on populations have been forbidden, as primary target, since Just after WWII.

I'm going to guess A) you are referring to the attack on Attilan and B) by populations you mean civilian populations. I'd argue in return that Attilan is a Millitary target. In fact it was the ONLY target. there are no other inhuman installations or facilities anywhere in the world. Lets not forget the inhumans started the whole thing when they killed totally innocent un-armed, un-powered civilians. and just before the retaliatory attack on Attilan they had just attacked the nerve center of American military society.

If Shield was indeed an UM organization they would have helped The Inhuman's in the Silent War as they we trying to recover stolen property that was needed for their culture to survive.

I'm going to guess you meant UN. in response I'd say A) If a foreign power, lets say Russia, had a super-weapons and they were stolen by some radical terrorist(quicksilver) and handed out to anyone on the street and the US recovered these weapons I would NOT give them back to Russia. I'd friggin keep them since they've managed to prove there not stable enough to keep them locked up. B) the UN/SHIELD would probably feel better with a more stable power possessing said weapons (though they'd optimally like to see the weapons destroyed) and C) The Inhumans are not part of the UN, hence SHIELD has to side with the member nation.

The Cube has no possible excuse, and since Nuremberg the leader of an organization are responsible or the organizations acts.

If I recall correctly we've only seen one person in the cube mistreated and he kinda did swear to kill us all. The Warden had to conceal most of his mis-deeds in that area, and I imagine if tony knew about the total goings-ons he'd shut it down. in any case it's a moot point since the cube was Pre-Civil War SHIELD.


If Cho could hack into Shields systems well enough to find out about the kidnapping of the hulk, The other things can be presumed to be just as easy. He got past Reed Richard's security without any problems

I have serious issues with the ease Cho had getting into those systems (MARY SUE!) but lets point out he wasn't looking for that information. He was looking for the hulk. he knew it was a matter of time before he was found out, so if he was smart he'd get in and get out.

The person Tony Stark sent to talked to Him began the conversation with a Super powered attack on a kidm a puppy and a Non-Super powered Woman. That would breed trust.

Trust is a two way street, Cho was actively recruiting a squad to support the Hulk in a mission of destruction, death and revenge.

Shield was in charge of Captain America's security

Ooooo... Low Blow. Hopefully they've upgraded, but this is a real legit argument, but still one that could be settled. By killing the red skull as quickly as possible.


Anyway, who in the superhero community would really trust an organization that has people called Cape Killers.

It's a nickname. No one in marvel actually has a cape. Ok, a few do. But they're all in the Initiative already. :D


Oh I see. So more effectively as in implementing villains as bounty hunters, hunting down those you call friend, pissing off an Asgardian God, and killing a living Icon of the country you swear to protect. Gotcha. All of this would have happened much more irresponsibly if it wasnt for the SHRA.

1) Villains fighting on the right side of the law (even if they are doing something you don't like) means that those same villains are not out doing normal villainy stuff like pillaging, murder, robbery, grand larceny, trying to take over the world, stuff like that. the Initiative has been VERY successful in that regard.

2) So, when cap hunted tony down during the Armor Wars, was he a bad guy? What about when the avengers made Hank Pym get help for the whole "Crazy Wifebeater" thing? Heroes make mistakes, and it's up to there fellows to make sure that they stop and get called on it. That's what Tony and Co did.

3) Thor needs to get beat on and soon. Wussy Aryan Pretty-Boy... on a more serious note, Thor has been pissed of at many people before. it's not exactly a character flaw to make someone mad at you.

4) The SHRA didn't kill cap, the red skull did. You could argue that even if cap had gone pro-reg, even if there had been no Civil War, eventually Red Skull was going to take that shot. I'm a big Cap fan, and I can't wait for Steve Rodgers to come back so he can apologize to tony for being such a back-stabbing jerk. :D :D :D

[mikekerr3]

I'm going to guess A) you are referring to the attack on Attilan and B) by populations you mean civilian populations. I'd argue in return that Attilan is a Millitary target. In fact it was the ONLY target. there are no other inhuman installations or facilities anywhere in the world. Lets not forget the inhumans started the whole thing when they killed totally innocent un-armed, un-powered civilians. and just before the retaliatory attack on Attilan they had just attacked the nerve center of American military society.

The pentagon is a military Hq therefor a valid target.

I'm going to guess you meant UN. in response I'd say A) If a foreign power, lets say Russia, had a super-weapons and they were stolen by some radical terrorist(quicksilver) and handed out to anyone on the street and the US recovered these weapons I would NOT give them back to Russia. I'd friggin keep them since they've managed to prove there not stable enough to keep them locked up. B) the UN/SHIELD would probably feel better with a more stable power possessing said weapons (though they'd optimally like to see the weapons destroyed) and C) The Inhumans are not part of the UN, hence SHIELD has to side with the member nation.

The Crystals are necessary for them to survive. were they supposed to die off at the discretion of the loon the MU has in the White House


If I recall correctly we've only seen one person in the cube mistreated and he kinda did swear to kill us all. The Warden had to conceal most of his mis-deeds in that area, and I imagine if tony knew about the total goings-ons he'd shut it down. in any case it's a moot point since the cube was Pre-Civil War SHIELD.

If the guy running it ain't in jail it's not moot



I have serious issues with the ease Cho had getting into those systems (MARY SUE!) but lets point out he wasn't looking for that information. He was looking for the hulk. he knew it was a matter of time before he was found out, so if he was smart he'd get in and get out.



Trust is a two way street, Cho was actively recruiting a squad to support the Hulk in a mission of destruction, death and revenge.



Ooooo... Low Blow. Hopefully they've upgraded, but this is a real legit argument, but still one that could be settled. By killing the red skull as quickly as possible.

that would not absolve them from the lax security in the first place. Also would you trust people who have had a 100% casualty rate on there prisoners brought to trial for SHRA violations.?





It's a nickname. No one in marvel actually has a cape. Ok, a few do. But they're all in the Initiative already.

the killers is the active word, they are supporting Bulseye in the Thunderbolts as he maims people.




1) Villains fighting on the right side of the law (even if they are doing something you don't like) means that those same villains are not out doing normal villainy stuff like pillaging, murder, robbery, grand larceny, trying to take over the world, stuff like that. the Initiative has been VERY successful in that regard.

2) So, when cap hunted tony down during the Armor Wars, was he a bad guy? What about when the avengers made Hank Pym get help for the whole "Crazy Wifebeater" thing? Heroes make mistakes, and it's up to there fellows to make sure that they stop and get called on it. That's what Tony and Co did.

3) Thor needs to get beat on and soon. Wussy Aryan Pretty-Boy... on a more serious note, Thor has been pissed of at many people before. it's not exactly a character flaw to make someone mad at you.

4) The SHRA didn't kill cap, the red skull did. You could argue that even if cap had gone pro-reg, even if there had been no Civil War, eventually Red Skull was going to take that shot. I'm a big Cap fan, and I can't wait for Steve Rodgers to come back so he can apologize to tony for being such a back-stabbing jerk. :D :D :D

Sheild was responsible for Caps Death. The minute he was a prisoner it became thier resposibilty to protect him. The Perp walk was a PR stunt taken at the risk of a mans life.

[Drdmx]

Wow. k...

1.) I see, so its all about the old mea culpa of "keeping your enemies closer" thing right? Because villains ALWAYS stay good once they start doing good deeds. Who cares about what they're doing now vs what you give them the opening to do later? Batroc can rob a bank unsuccessfully 20 times for all I care, but he only has to assasinate the president once for him to be a major player. In essence, you're letting the fox into the hen house.


2.) A couple of bad analogies. Cap never beat his wife, and needed to be stopped. Cap never endeavored to seek out heroes and villains who used similar tech to his and wind up killing multiple people. He never initiated a prison break (prior to Civil War). The last line that you wrote in the corresponding bullet point is something alot of people seem to agree with. Its just too bad that "Tony and Co." seem to think they are above that standard that they seem so intent on imposing on other heroes that can think for themselves.

3.) Thor "needing to get his butt whipped" isnt exactly a good reason for Tony doing what he did. He cloned Thor (without consent) and said clone killed another hero. How do you justify that? Oh yeah self defense, because Goliath was known to get out of control all the time.


4.) Cap being persecuted and put on trial in a public setting left him exposed to his own assassination. If he wasnt busy fighting off Stark, maybe his death wouldnt have been accomplished so easy?

[Kevinroc]

Aiding and Abetting acts of superhuman crime and mass property damage. Pretty good reason to put out a warrant. Oh, there was also that SHEILD helicarier he helped destroy.

I'm talking about the beginning of Cho's journey. SHIELD was tracking him down first. And he made it abundantly clear that he didn't trust SHIELD and wanted nothing to do with them. That's when the property damage and such began.

[Red Orion]

Cho could go to Oklahoma and hope Hercules could convince Thor to let them stay in Asgard while they try and take down SHIELD.

[Omega Alpha]

Cho could go to Oklahoma and hope Hercules could convince Thor to let them stay in Asgard while they try and take down SHIELD.

Or... Thor could beat the crap out of him for being such an annoying brat.

[Exo]

Sheild was responsible for Caps Death. The minute he was a prisoner it became thier resposibilty to protect him.

They did their part when he still was in their custody. He was later handed over to the US Marshals before geting shot at on the steps of a federal courthouse.

[TotalWorldDomination]

Sheild was responsible for Caps Death. The minute he was a prisoner it became thier resposibilty to protect him. The Perp walk was a PR stunt taken at the risk of a mans life.

The Perp Walk was arranged by the Red Skull through corrupted Federal and NYPD contacts. The Public Trial was all Caps Idea. Lets remember, Sharon Carter was the actual assassin, so had SHIELD not taken Steve into custody, she could have just shot him any old time. As it was, this was probably her only chance to get close to him with a handgun because of SHIELD protective custody.


1.) I see, so its all about the old mea culpa of "keeping your enemies closer" thing right? Because villains ALWAYS stay good once they start doing good deeds. Who cares about what they're doing now vs what you give them the opening to do later? Batroc can rob a bank unsuccessfully 20 times for all I care, but he only has to assasinate the president once for him to be a major player. In essence, you're letting the fox into the hen house.

So you are saying there is no potential for reform? Look at people like Emma Frost, Ares and Songbird. Villains in the MU make the leap over to hero with some regularity, and a good number stay that way. Having them as part of the Initiative A) aids in rehabilitation, B) allows the authorities to keep a close eye on there progress and C) allows unlimited observation so that if they DO go rouge again, they have a more complete understanding of the subject. Not letting them into the program because they could eventually go bad again is directly contrary to the entire concept of a rehabilitation prison system. If we just gave these people sentences in 42 then released them when there time was up, they'd be going right back to crime, rather then any sort of chance at joining the good guys.


2.) A couple of bad analogies. Cap never beat his wife, and needed to be stopped. Cap never endeavored to seek out heroes and villains who used similar tech to his and wind up killing multiple people. He never initiated a prison break (prior to Civil War). The last line that you wrote in the corresponding bullet point is something alot of people seem to agree with. Its just too bad that "Tony and Co." seem to think they are above that standard that they seem so intent on imposing on other heroes that can think for themselves.

I disagree. I think Christos Gage put it PERFECTLY in Casualties of War: Captain America/Iron Man that the reason Tony and Hank and the gang were supporting the SHRA is because they're heroes who have screwed up. They know people have problems and issues and a hero can do something destructive without a support net. Cap can't understand this concept because he's a genuinely good guy who things a pat on the back and a mug of hot coco will make everything better. Look at "What if... Jessica Jones had joined the Avengers?". By Bendis' postulation, ONE more set of eyes would have let the Avengers catch Wanda Maximoff before she went batshit insane and let her get the help she needed. Imagine if she had the FSI watching her. In a recent issue of Iron Man, Doc Samson thinks tony is going of the track so he demands that he take some manditory shore leave and because of the FSI tony has to comply... at least to a point.

3.) Thor "needing to get his butt whipped" isnt exactly a good reason for Tony doing what he did. He cloned Thor (without consent) and said clone killed another hero. How do you justify that? Oh yeah self defense, because Goliath was known to get out of control all the time.

He created a Cyborg based on a Dead friend, and said Cyborg was under attack from a 50 foot tall man at the time. Yes it WAS self-defense. Perhaps excessive Self-Defense, but it was also Clor's first time in the field. It's not like anyone else in the MU has screwed up and gotten someone else killed... *COUGH*GWENSTACY*COUGH*;)

4.) Cap being persecuted and put on trial in a public setting left him exposed to his own assassination. If he wasnt busy fighting off Stark, maybe his death wouldnt have been accomplished so easy?

Cap WANTED a public trial. I'm betting Tony gave him one as a sign of respect. No Tribunals in 42, no military court in DC, let him get judged by the people. If the Red Skull wanted him assassinated, I'm going to bet he was going to be able to do it. It might have been harder, but he DID have caps GF under MIND CONTROL. She could have shot him in his living room after a particularly good episode of PBS' "The War", and it would have had the same effect. Remember, Crossbones just wounded him, Sharon killed him.

I'm talking about the beginning of Cho's journey. SHIELD was tracking him down first. And he made it abundantly clear that he didn't trust SHIELD and wanted nothing to do with them. That's when the property damage and such began.

I'd imagine that if you are a suspected Hyper-Genius and your parents house blew up SHEILD might want to ask you a few questions. Seems mostly reasonable.

Or... Thor could beat the crap out of him for being such an annoying brat.

Ooo. That might get me to start liking Thor again!

[Drdmx]

Ok lets start from the back.

4.) I didnt see any argument from the aspect of maybe Cap wouldnt be dead if he wasnt at war with Tony so I'll assume we agree. What Cap wanted is irrelevant. The fact is that if he was never being hounded to join Starks little rascals gang, it would never have occurred. I'll take a cup of hot coca and a discussion any day over putting my 40+ year old best friend in prison.


3.) Another bad example. Gwen Stacey was actually killed by a villain. If your clone of the God of Thunder is THAT intimdated of the 50 foot tall man and he might fold under the pressure.... how about you, ya know... dont send him out? Oh and I wont argue whether its a clone, cyborg or whatever. If Thors DNA was used (which it was) then it was an immoral call by Stark, bottom line.

2.) Just because Stark and Pym feel that they can relate to the SHRA doesnt make it right. You dont force it down everyone elses throat just because making OTHER people take responsibility for the things they do wrong makes you feel all warm and tingly inside. I think that was the whole premise of Caps resistance.

1.) What you're saying would be good if it were your typical reform system, but instead you're spinning it as if these guys havent committed major crimes. By your own logic, we could have reformed Charles Manson by deputizing him and allowing him to go catch other psycho killers. Look at Creed and the Hound program. Sure the governent thought they had him on a leash, but he still killed @ his leisure.

[Kevinroc]

I'd imagine that if you are a suspected Hyper-Genius and your parents house blew up SHEILD might want to ask you a few questions. Seems mostly reasonable.


He didn't want to talk to them. And from everything we've seen, it is safe to assume that he didn't do it. So if SHIELD was saying he is a suspect, then they prove how ineffectual they actually are.

[TotalWorldDomination]

4.) I didnt see any argument from the aspect of maybe Cap wouldnt be dead if he wasnt at war with Tony so I'll assume we agree. What Cap wanted is irrelevant. The fact is that if he was never being hounded to join Starks little rascals gang, it would never have occurred. I'll take a cup of hot coca and a discussion any day over putting my 40+ year old best friend in prison.

Um, tony did try and discuss these things. on more then one occasion. First time Cap Zapped him with a booby trap and then attempted to swarm his team. Second time, cap and tony went there separate ways, agreeing that one was going to take the other down. Third time, caps team showed up in the middle of a cease-fire and attempted to take tony down. Last time, Cap was in the middle of causing a prison break and tony decided that rather then just surprise attack them, he was going to give diplomacy one last shot. Each time, Cap struck first.

I don't understand the other point you're trying to make. I'm saying Cap would be dead, if we are to believe the Red Skull timeline, regardless of there being a civil war. The Skull turned Cap's girlfriend into a brainwashed assassin. theres really no chance that he wasn't going to use her to kill him eventually.


3.) Another bad example. Gwen Stacey was actually killed by a villain. If your clone of the God of Thunder is THAT intimdated of the 50 foot tall man and he might fold under the pressure.... how about you, ya know... dont send him out? Oh and I wont argue whether its a clone, cyborg or whatever. If Thors DNA was used (which it was) then it was an immoral call by Stark, bottom line.

This is the traditional Gwen Stacy argument. IMHO Gwen was killed by Peters webbing breaking her neck rather then the fall.

Thor is the Atomic Bomb of this war. It's a distasteful thing to do, but if they could have saved lives by using him, it was all for the best. A good number of cap's people were willing to quit based purely on Thor being on the Pro-Reg side. If he could end that war in a single stroke, he would want to.

2.) Just because Stark and Pym feel that they can relate to the SHRA doesn't make it right. You don't force it down everyone else's throat just because making OTHER people take responsibility for the things they do wrong makes you feel all warm and tingly inside. I think that was the whole premise of Caps resistance.

But it is the American people who are demanding superhuman accountability. Note that the SHRA was not championed by Tony Stark or Reed Richards or Hank Pym. It's Mirriam Sharpe that gets the SHRA passed. The People of the United States demanded this, and cap decided that he didn't care that much what the people thought. Of course at the very end of the war he realized he wasn't fighting oppression, he was fighting the people (they kinda tackled him) so I guess even the big man himself would agree with me on that one.

1.) What you're saying would be good if it were your typical reform system, but instead you're spinning it as if these guys havent committed major crimes. By your own logic, we could have reformed Charles Manson by deputizing him and allowing him to go catch other psycho killers. Look at Creed and the Hound program. Sure the governent thought they had him on a leash, but he still killed @ his leisure.

Some of them have committed major crimes, others have not. Having them on a leash that's in there bloodstream is a much more effective one then the previous system creed used.

As for the Manson allegory, Manson A) has no superpowers, B) has no redeeming skills and C) is utterly unrepentant for his crimes. The Supers in the Thunderbolts program and taking up space in the initiative are all 3, at least in public. Bullseye was let into the program because of section B, there are few that can match his skills. I'd use a comparison to the Project: Paperclip program that the USA ran post-WWII to get Nazi scientists working for America rather then the USSR. Thanks to men like Werner Von Braun, we won the space race and developed technologies that we never would have before. AND we deprived the USSR of vital resources. With the Thunderbolts, We are A) making use of skills that we did not have previously to help the American public from wackos like Steel Spider and Americommando, B) helping aid the rehabilitation of some Supervillians and C) depriving villainy of human resources.

[Drdmx]

You dont know for sure what would have happened with Caps girlfriend, and neither do I. The argument I was making is that had he not been busy fighting Tony, maybe it wouldnt have gone down that way. Sorry if you got confused.

Nice spin on Thor and saving lives by using him. How about... if the war wasnt happening, there would have been no need? Even if you built him with the best of intentions, you still own the accountability for what he did, which actually turned out to be taking lives no?

Actually, the "Big Man" turned himself in because he realized that the collateral for the war wasnt worth it. Just cause Tony sells it to America and alot of sheep actually jump on (Read: 9/11) doesnt make it right.

"During the climactic battle between pro- and anti-Registration superheroes, Captain America confronts and batters Iron Man and has victory within his grasp. However, when a group of civilians attempt to restrain him, Rogers realizes that he is endangering the very people he has sworn to protect."



And Cap didnt up and decide that he was defying the government cause he felt the need, he has ALWAYS had a history of calling out America on its faults and challenging authority. I guess the only way this differs is he didnt end up dead?



Your thunderbolts logic still escapes me. You do realize that some of them are certifiable correct? Norman Osborn gassed room fulls of people just to prove to Spiderman he was a God, and he was willing to do it to the world. At least Manson is straight up and you know what to expect. With Osborn recently finding a mask in his desk and sweating profusely while laughing, are you going to tell me you are confident he's not gonna make a turn at some point? And you called Thor a bomb?

[mikekerr3]

Nobody has answered one of the original questions So I will rephrase. If Cho turns himself in and refuses to join either of the two organizations (Shield or FSI) which have at the least a strong reek of corruption. What will the do to him? life in prison for failing to co-operate or Major Brain damage.



Also I served in uniform for over 20 Years and retired. The FSI is not a military organization by American standards. They mete out punishments without public Courts Martial. throw people in the Brig without legal cause. The Cover-up of MVPs death would be considered a disgraceful act, Marvel does not realize it but the reasom most people in America trust the military is something the FSI disregards, HONOR.

Forced conscription of a select few is paramount to slavery. A couple of years of national service with every (supposedly) having an even chance can possibly be justified in an emergency, but to be at the government disposal involuntarily for an indefinite period is Slavery whether you are paid or not.

[Drdmx]

Forced conscription of a select few is paramount to slavery. A couple of years of national service with every (supposedly) having an even chance can possibly be justified in an emergency, but to be at the government disposal involuntarily for an indefinite period is Slavery whether you are paid or not.

Excellent point.


Also, I think the only option for him is to keep what he's doing.

[Arilou]

Forced conscription of a select few is paramount to slavery.

Most european armies have mandatory military service, although since training EVERYONE would usually be too expensive they just pick out those who seem most valuable/doesen't try to weasel out of it.

[mikekerr3]

European countries have conscription for 18 to 24 months. As well provent if you don't draft everyone the system gets corrupted, our system was corrupted during the last draft. Check out how may congressmen's son got deferments or into the Nat. Guard. The Guard was safe the, not like now.

It works out if your poor you go to war if rich to college. Been there and done too much of that.that.

Also if you want to know about the real results of an draft of people who think what they are doing is wrong or unfair, look up the term Fragging, it was fairly freqquent twords the end of the Vietnam War

Sheild has a leader that you can't trust behind you back and If history repeats he won't really be safew around the Initiative. Ask Gauntlet about P.O ing heavly armed people.

If a draft is to be anything but involentary servitude of a minority. It has to be Universal. Also unless the public's kid have to bleed along with the few who serve, the military becomes a hammer with every problem a nail.

[kamandi]

I choose die. Is that one of the options? I choose die.


I'm with you. Just have Cho die and go away. Have him incinerated with a laser that kills every dimensional variation of him in front of every Marvel character, then have all of them perform an autopsy and confirm that it was him and that there's no way for him to come back. Then ask Death who will clearly state that he is dead and not coming back. All characters with time travelling abilities will pledge not to go back and get him from the time stream. The ashes will be spread all across the galaxy ensuring that they won't be all collected to try and reform him, oh and the ashes will be contaminated so any attempts at cloning him will fail.

Finally an writer who attempts to bring him back will have his hands wacked with a hammer.

[chicagokmc]

1. Turn himself in and register.

a. Then he has a choice of working for people he knows to be evil. Without choice its slavery, not employment.

b. Or becoming lobotimsed. His power is intelligence. Taking away a man right to think is an abomination.

C. Stand trial. If he lives that long, so far we have seen two trials, on defendant was mistreated in prison then shot, the other was assasinated.

2. Hide, that doesn’t seem to to have worked too well. He iss being tracked down by an organization that just recently attempted genocide(Silent war), runs a torture facilities (The Cube and 42) , uses Suicide bombers and ,He suspects, may have killed his family.

3. Fight, the worst that can happen there is the options above. Death is often not the worst that can happen.


These aren't his only options. He could take the Namor approach and align himself with a major power outside of the US (like Namor did with Doom). As the 7th smartest person, there are a ton of things he could come up with.

[Cthulhudrew]

These aren't his only options. He could take the Namor approach and align himself with a major power outside of the US (like Namor did with Doom). As the 7th smartest person, there are a ton of things he could come up with.

Such as delete himself from all computer records in the world- that would be my first notion, personally. Even though there are living people that will know of his existence and might hunt him down, deleting any records he has would go a long way towards helping alleviate his problems (no photos on file to put out on the police circuits, no tracking him via credit records, etc.); for all intents and purposes, he would be a non-entity.

[mikekerr3]

Such as delete himself from all computer records in the world- that would be my first notion, personally. Even though there are living people that will know of his existence and might hunt him down, deleting any records he has would go a long way towards helping alleviate his problems (no photos on file to put out on the police circuits, no tracking him via credit records, etc.); for all intents and purposes, he would be a non-entity.

I think his current plan is a good one he is out to destroy and evil organization, Isn't that what superheros do?

I thinks he believes what he told the shield agent, if so he is morally obligated to fight them. Also even before WWH he was under attack by a sinister organization, Shield was the one tracking him down, It would be hard for him not to see a connection.

[snoopafly]

I choose die. Is that one of the options? I choose die.

I choose this option as well.