Xavier Institute Survivors

[Blur]

What Xavier Institute Students do you believe will survive Messiah Complex?

[Nyssane]

X-23 and Trance.

[Faded]

X-23, Anole, Hellion, and Loa, probably Blindfold (and Ms. X-Man Armor).
And Wolf Cub(!!!) but he might go home or live in a zoo.

Rockslide, too, but he'd merge with a canyon and become one of the nation's leading tourists attractions.

I could honestly see Match, Trance, and Indra die in a throwaway line and Surge bite it before being ressurected as living lightning.

And Nezhno should explode at any minute.

[prince_nightcrawler]

..Bampf...

[Flâneur]

X-23.

The rest will discover a bus in a landmine field and decide to jump on it for a tour.

[rZi]

X-23 and Trance.

X-23 is in the promotinal art by simone bianchi for Astonishing X-men...so i doubt it but i wish you were right, we don't need a lamer version of wolverine.

[Blur]

i just hope prodigy, match, nezhno, anole, and rockslide survive.

[Speed]

X-23
Possibly the cuckoos.

[Magneto X]

X-23
Possibly the cuckoos.

X-23 and cuckoos are okay. For clones. They have potential.

i just hope prodigy, match, nezhno, anole, and rockslide survive.

Yep. Also Armor. And Surge has potential.

[podmark]

What Xavier Institute Students do you believe will survive Messiah Complex?

Most of them. Seriously not expecting many student deaths.

[Askani's Flame]

I think all will survive, but some may leave the mansion and choose not to continue the path of being an "X-Man".

[Swashbuckler]

I'm thinking a handful will live. I think the backgrounders are toast, which is why Anole, Pixie and Neznho were brought up into a full cast already. They wanted to save them. The ones that survive will mostly leave if they aren't on the main squad. None of those kids are going to join a big team and they won't be looked after without a school. Anole, Pixie, X-23, Armor, Mercury, Elixir and possibly David will live.

[Veronica_Sawyer]

I'm thinking a handful will live. I think the backgrounders are toast, which is why Anole, Pixie and Neznho were brought up into a full cast already. They wanted to save them. The ones that survive will mostly leave if they aren't on the main squad. None of those kids are going to join a big team and they won't be looked after without a school. Anole, Pixie, X-23, Armor, Mercury, Elixir and possibly David will live.

I agree, and i dont really think that a lot of the students are going to be killed off, maybe one or two but i doubt more than a few just because we've already seen so many deaths when it comes to the students. Theres going to be a lot of death in MC i think but not directed towards the Xavier student body.

[Blur]

i can really see Surge taking a dirt nap and not because she rubs me the wrong way.

[protogarrett]

I think most, if not all, will survive.
X-23 for sure.
Armor still has Cassandra Nova trapped in her mind somewhere according to Astonishing, so she'll live so she can go freak-evil later.
Anole, sadly I think limbo... I doubt they kill the gay character. It would just cause a shit storm with too many people, so character limbo is the easy way out.
The rest, yeah, I think they'll live too.

[CmX]

I honestly don't believe there will be any major deaths at all.

[frog]

Read the latest X-Position. It doesn't sound good for all of them!

[Victorious]

I think all will survive, but some may leave the mansion and choose not to continue the path of being an "X-Man".

yeah, me too. in my opinion -->

who would leave in my opinion:
-Wolfcub, he feels unprotected and he hates the mansion
-Bling, she don't want to be an 'x-man' (not jokes allowed) and Onyxx will probably follow her.
-Martha and Ernst, i think they will go, since we know she isn't Nova thanks to astonishing.
-The Cuckoos, i think they will join Selene or if not, turn evil.
-Trance, she is too scared!
-Surge, i think she would separate from teh x-men, he doesn't seems to believe in them anymore.

the others i think they will stay for one reason or another.

[claimtosubclaim]

Rockslide and Mercury are virtually unkillable, we're supposed to find out more about Blindfold's origins after MC, and Anole is too much of a fan fave to die. Everyone else I would be worried about.

[frog]

We need Rockslide to stay around just for the funnies.

[claimtosubclaim]

We need Rockslide to stay around just for the funnies.

He's like the Iceman of the New X, except that his remarks are less cheesy and more smartass.

[DeniseXfrost]

Rockslide's probably really insecured on the inside.

I guess alot will survive.

[podmark]

David will live, there's a plotline running with him now.

[MarvelGirlBoy]

Elixir and Loa sound like they might be pulling through to provide superheroes with hot teen sex distractions.

I imagine that in addition to X-23, the Cuckoos, Prodigy, Armor and Anole will be just fine. I can't see Mercury, Rockslide or Dust dying either. Hellion will pull through. And I think Pixie and Nezhno are protected for the moment, though Megan will take a hit. That leaves Surge, Match, Wolf Cub, Indra, Trance, No-Girl and Ernst.

Don't see the background characters being mass-killed now that most have been so much more established - their deaths will be used for dramatic effect when they come, so Surge is definitely getting short circuited :( . It'll help David be nuts.

Just can't work out who'll join her, if anyone.

[podmark]

I wouldn't take Dust and Gentle off the death list. Those two are at the top of my list along with Surge.

Keep in mind that there are only two people capable of taking out Rockslide right now; Sinister and Exodus. He's a psychic entity so now, so only psychics can do any serious damage.


So with in mind here's my "safe" list v1.2 (by safe I mean unlikely to die based on my interpretations of the situation):
Prodigy: the "evil" plot
Rockslide: unkillable
Cuckoos: evil plot?
Armor: fan fav
Anole: fan fav
X-23: confirmed survivor
Hellion: likely sitting it out after injury
Pixie: possibly see Hellion
Blindfold: hint of origin upcoming

[MarvelGirlBoy]

I wouldn't take Dust and Gentle off the death list. Those two are at the top of my list along with Surge.

Heh, ironically, at the end of my post I added "Dust and Nezhno are probably the most high risk", but deleted it because I'd already veto'd them earlier.

I have a weird gut feeling that Dust might get into trouble, but that's not substantiated by logic - she's the flag-bearing Muslim character just as Anole is the gay one, and she's not confronting the Reavers. Not that the people at the Mansion are safe... if the Mansion gets attacked, she suddenly becomes the most likely to get it.

Gentle, I was so sure would die, but various comments and hints have left me verging on confident that his time is not yet nigh.

We ought to remember, though, that Blindfold only cited one other character out of all the X-cast. If Hellion and Pixie (and Nightcrawler) are just getting some down-time, Surge would fill the last role all by herself and I think even she would survive if it's only one down in the entire X-cast (BeastBeastBeastBeast).

[firstfallen]

I think this is the problem that I have with writing at the moment. People think that certain characters aren't going to die because they are supposed 'token' characters, Sooraya for being islamic, Vic for being gay for example. I really object to people referring to these kinds of characters as token characters. Sooraya is an interesting character, one who has to juggle her moral conscience against her loyalty to her friends, Sooraya is islamic but it shouldn't define her character, it should merely represent a part of her character that works in conjunction with other aspects to create a well rounded person. The same can be said for Vic, he is gay, but by making it the focus of our discussions we make it appear as though it is the only important aspect of his personality. He appears, from what we have seen, to be kind hearted, good natured, very emotional, protective and loyal to his friends, so in all a good person. His sexual orientation is only a part of his character, and it is the sum of all his many parts that is important to these comics. His orientation is important to him and he thinks that it's the one thing that everyone is going to focus on, however, his friends don't appear to care. If we don't see or acknowledge these things, then the writers clearly are not doing a good enough job of making these characters believable and relatable all around. :)

[MarvelGirlBoy]

I think this is the problem that I have with writing at the moment. People think that certain characters aren't going to die because they are supposed 'token' characters, Sooraya for being islamic, Vic for being gay for example. I really object to people referring to these kinds of characters as token characters. Sooraya is an interesting character, one who has to juggle her moral conscience against her loyalty to her friends, Sooraya is islamic but it shouldn't define her character, it should merely represent a part of her character that works in conjunction with other aspects to create a well rounded person. The same can be said for Vic, he is gay, but by making it the focus of our discussions we make it appear as though it is the only important aspect of his personality. He appears, from what we have seen, to be kind hearted, good natured, very emotional, protective and loyal to his friends, so in all a good person. His sexual orientation is only a part of his character, and it is the sum of all his many parts that is important to these comics. His orientation is important to him and he thinks that it's the one thing that everyone is going to focus on, however, his friends don't appear to care. If we don't see or acknowledge these things, then the writers clearly are not doing a good enough job of making these characters believable and relatable all around. :)

Oh I do agree, but you can see where I'm coming from, I hope? I wasn't saying that "they can never die because of...", because I hope writers aren't that shallow - but, for the moment, whilst the New X-Men are still relativelt emerging characters, I think that characters that represent relatively new dimensions of diversity aren't going to be killed off.

Part of what Dust and Anole bring to the group is the dynamics from their heritages, aspects of them that still have yet to be explored properly. For that reason they are protected as 'token' characters, just as we won't see the Cuckoos die, or emo Julian, because of the dynamic they bring to that generation of X-Men. Besides, Anole obviously was expendable - he was intended to die as soon as he came out, but his immunity is from his popularity.

[podmark]

I think this is the problem that I have with writing at the moment. People think that certain characters aren't going to die because they are supposed 'token' characters, Sooraya for being islamic, Vic for being gay for example. I really object to people referring to these kinds of characters as token characters. Sooraya is an interesting character, one who has to juggle her moral conscience against her loyalty to her friends, Sooraya is islamic but it shouldn't define her character, it should merely represent a part of her character that works in conjunction with other aspects to create a well rounded person. The same can be said for Vic, he is gay, but by making it the focus of our discussions we make it appear as though it is the only important aspect of his personality. He appears, from what we have seen, to be kind hearted, good natured, very emotional, protective and loyal to his friends, so in all a good person. His sexual orientation is only a part of his character, and it is the sum of all his many parts that is important to these comics. His orientation is important to him and he thinks that it's the one thing that everyone is going to focus on, however, his friends don't appear to care. If we don't see or acknowledge these things, then the writers clearly are not doing a good enough job of making these characters believable and relatable all around. :)

In my safe list Vic isn't safe because he's gay. I put in fan favorite as a quick version of a couple of reasons why I don't believe he'll die. Armor is in a similar boat.

Bling is bi and that certainly won't save her if her number is up. And being at the mansion is probably just as bad as facing the Reavers, which should be clear to anyone who's seen the previews.

[firstfallen]

Oh I do agree, but you can see where I'm coming from, I hope? I wasn't saying that "they can never die because of...", because I hope writers aren't that shallow - but, for the moment, whilst the New X-Men are still relativelt emerging characters, I think that characters that represent relatively new dimensions of diversity aren't going to be killed off.

Part of what Dust and Anole bring to the group is the dynamics from their heritages, aspects of them that still have yet to be explored properly. For that reason they are protected as 'token' characters, just as we won't see the Cuckoos die, or emo Julian, because of the dynamic they bring to that generation of X-Men. Besides, Anole obviously was expendable - he was intended to die as soon as he came out, but his immunity is from his popularity.

Absolutely, I totally agree that their diversity is important especially within undeveloped characters. However, it was more the concept of a 'token' character that offends me the most I think and I do think they end up being treated this way by writers. I don't think that this is intentional by the writers, but it seems as though they included these characters simply for the sake of having diversity, that's what a token characters represents. The characters should be represented as more than their differences (being gay, or having a different faith etc.). I think this is what has annoyed me about the ambiguity to do with New X-Men's future, these characters have so much potential and need so much development, and I don't think they would get that alongside the main X-Men permanently. I don't think I communicated my point very well originally.

I know Vic would survive because of popularity, he's one of my absolute favourite characters, but it's only partly because I can relate to being of an alternate sexual orientation, it's mainly because he is an interesting character overall. I think in this though Vic and Sooraya, as my examples, are opposites in this. Sooraya's faith is well documented as are her beliefs, however, she has very little development outside of that. Vic on the other hand has only dealt with his sexual orientation on panel very recently and it was almost like it was just thrown in there last minute. It is a big deal for Vic and should have been handled better than it was, I think we should have seen him worry about how people would react at some point, because it makes him more realistic. That said he is treated as a token character because he has a difference, even if that difference isn't highlighted as much as someone else's. I think in order to bring these characters to life they need to be written by someone who really gets what they're going through almost intimately. (For example Allan Heinberg is gay, so he draws on his own experiences when writing Hulkling and Wiccan).

But it's like you said it's all about development and these characters need it, it's only then that they'll stop being referred to as token characters. I am waiting for the day that they become interesting because of every aspect of their personalities and not just because they add diversity. :)

[Toboe]

I don't think any more students will die, or at least I hope so.

What I believe is that most of the current background students will probably leave and fade to limbo, since most of them seem to hate being there.

That would allow to focus more on the main squad, maybe adding Nehzno to the team if he doesn't explode before. I dunno if they'll stay at the mansion, though. Perhaps Xavier will tutor them someplace else.

[CyberHubbs]

Absolutely, I totally agree that their diversity is important especially within undeveloped characters. However, it was more the concept of a 'token' character that offends me the most I think and I do think they end up being treated this way by writers. I don't think that this is intentional by the writers, but it seems as though they included these characters simply for the sake of having diversity, that's what a token characters represents. The characters should be represented as more than their differences (being gay, or having a different faith etc.). I think this is what has annoyed me about the ambiguity to do with New X-Men's future, these characters have so much potential and need so much development, and I don't think they would get that alongside the main X-Men permanently. I don't think I communicated my point very well originally.

I know Vic would survive because of popularity, he's one of my absolute favourite characters, but it's only partly because I can relate to being of an alternate sexual orientation, it's mainly because he is an interesting character overall. I think in this though Vic and Sooraya, as my examples, are opposites in this. Sooraya's faith is well documented as are her beliefs, however, she has very little development outside of that. Vic on the other hand has only dealt with his sexual orientation on panel very recently and it was almost like it was just thrown in there last minute. It is a big deal for Vic and should have been handled better than it was, I think we should have seen him worry about how people would react at some point, because it makes him more realistic. That said he is treated as a token character because he has a difference, even if that difference isn't highlighted as much as someone else's. I think in order to bring these characters to life they need to be written by someone who really gets what they're going through almost intimately. (For example Allan Heinberg is gay, so he draws on his own experiences when writing Hulkling and Wiccan).

But it's like you said it's all about development and these characters need it, it's only then that they'll stop being referred to as token characters. I am waiting for the day that they become interesting because of every aspect of their personalities and not just because they add diversity. :)

If Anole's homosexuality is explored more, though, isn't that adding to his tokenisity? I always find it amusing that in a school of rock people and claw-wielding teenage assassins, that any of the kids would make a big deal about him being gay. Matter of fact, I get the feeling that Anole wants it to be as little of an issue as possible. He's gay, but he's not GAAAAAYYYYY!

Dust, of course, gets screwed. But I think she's been hamstrung by her own seriousness. All she has going for is her diversity. It would be like, say, making an exchange student from Latveria. Might be the curse of such a large group, of course. Someone ends up being wallpaper.

I'd have the kids travel the world after Messiah Complex. Put them on a bus -- Er, I mean plane! -- and send them overseas. Get them away from X-Men turf. They can visit Latveria and Wakanda and regular European countries. Give them a Eurotrip adventure.

Far as survivors, I'll say everyone lives.

[CmX]

I don't think any more students will die, or at least I hope so.



I don't think so either.

[firstfallen]

If Anole's homosexuality is explored more, though, isn't that adding to his tokenisity? I always find it amusing that in a school of rock people and claw-wielding teenage assassins, that any of the kids would make a big deal about him being gay. Matter of fact, I get the feeling that Anole wants it to be as little of an issue as possible. He's gay, but he's not GAAAAAYYYYY!

It is a difficult issue of course, but the whole concept of being a 'token' character is to do with being very underdeveloped which is what Vic is, but also being one diverse character from a particular social group among many who are the same (so in Vic's case one gay character amongst shit loads of heterosexual characters). In order to reduce this tokenism there need to be more characters from social minorities (according to most studies homosexual people make up approx. 10% of some population), so statistically speaking, there should be far more gay characters than the ones we have, and of the ones we have many of them end up playing background roles (Karma, Bling for example).

Vic looked up to Northstar as a role model, which is completely understandable to anyone. Vic quite clearly had issues as he never told anyone (even though most people apparently knew) about himself, even though he shouldn't really have to. But for a lot of gay people 'coming out' only helps reaffirm and strengthen their own individual identities. He went nuts when Santo called him a 'sissy' and when he 'outed' him, and psychologically that says a lot, because it not only shows how uncomfortable he may have been within himself, but it also takes away that sense of strengthening his own identity if someone else does it for him. It's why I hate Santo, because he has no compassion and no tact. Vic almost has this dual social stigma, he's a mutant and he's gay, so arguably it's even harder for him than many others.

Your point about the others not understanding is actually more prominent socially than you might think. Redirected fear, anger and hatred are sometimes common results of prejudice. If a certain group of people are discriminated against, they will look to another group that they see as being very different to them and re-channel that prejudice. It does happen. However, the students clearly aren't like that, but it's the whole idea that Vic might have thought that they could have ended up like that, that was the problem for him.

So, by developing the personalities of the characters in a more understanding, and individual way, you can give characters more depth and make them more than just token characters. Take Vic for example, you make sure that while developing a storyline about his sexual orientation, you also focus on other aspects of his personality as well to make the character more balanced, more relatable and at the same time making sure that his sexual orientation is not the sole focus of the character. This can only really be done by people who have the experience of having lived through these kinds of situations themselves.

Sorry for talking for so long, I just feel very strongly about issues like this. :D

[Faded]

He's like the Iceman of the New X, except that his remarks are less cheesy and more smartass.

I always thought of him as the Strong Guy of New X to be honest, minus the hair thing, plus the rock thing.

[claimtosubclaim]

I always thought of him as the Strong Guy of New X to be honest, minus the hair thing, plus the rock thing.

Oh yeah, he definitely has similarities to Strong Guy. But I feel like his powerset (he is ultimately a being of psychic energy, just like Bobby) and personality (jokester of the class) has made him remeniscent of Iceman.

[steve2275]

hes both :p :cool:

[MarvelGirlBoy]

Absolutely, I totally agree that their diversity is important especially within undeveloped characters. However, it was more the concept of a 'token' character that offends me the most I think and I do think they end up being treated this way by writers. I don't think that this is intentional by the writers, but it seems as though they included these characters simply for the sake of having diversity, that's what a token characters represents. The characters should be represented as more than their differences (being gay, or having a different faith etc.). I think this is what has annoyed me about the ambiguity to do with New X-Men's future, these characters have so much potential and need so much development, and I don't think they would get that alongside the main X-Men permanently. I don't think I communicated my point very well originally.

I know Vic would survive because of popularity, he's one of my absolute favourite characters, but it's only partly because I can relate to being of an alternate sexual orientation, it's mainly because he is an interesting character overall. I think in this though Vic and Sooraya, as my examples, are opposites in this. Sooraya's faith is well documented as are her beliefs, however, she has very little development outside of that. Vic on the other hand has only dealt with his sexual orientation on panel very recently and it was almost like it was just thrown in there last minute. It is a big deal for Vic and should have been handled better than it was, I think we should have seen him worry about how people would react at some point, because it makes him more realistic. That said he is treated as a token character because he has a difference, even if that difference isn't highlighted as much as someone else's. I think in order to bring these characters to life they need to be written by someone who really gets what they're going through almost intimately. (For example Allan Heinberg is gay, so he draws on his own experiences when writing Hulkling and Wiccan).

But it's like you said it's all about development and these characters need it, it's only then that they'll stop being referred to as token characters. I am waiting for the day that they become interesting because of every aspect of their personalities and not just because they add diversity. :)

It's true about Sooraya, she's not been developed far beyond her religion, but I am enjoying a depiction that doesn't shy away from realism - she isn't just "Islamic BTW", it's a very important part of her character as it is with many real religious folk. It also makes great character-development scenes like hers with Julian's in 43 all the more nuanced and interesting, so it has it's advantages. But things like the fact that Belasco/the Purifiers just keep referring to her religion when confronting her... maybe with the Purifiers it makes sense, but I think it is damaging her, shoving her so forcefully into a pigeon-hole. She needs some character development fast.

Anole is a bit different because he's only just been given the official spotlight. Before he was just a background character, and whilst traits shone through, he was to an extent, fairly one-dimensional. Gradually we got to see more of him, besides the sexuality we were all aware of, but he's only been a main character on NXM since 39, and as thexaxis keeps pointing out, we haven't had much proper down-time - the missions haven't been the kind where the kids can interact normally, and now we have Messiah Complex. I think we just need to wait, he's definitely more than the token gay character, but he just hasn't had the chance to show this yet. I just hope he's gonna be given the chance post-MC :(

(And I maintain, however 'token gay' it might be perceived, him and Indra are meant to be :p ).