Amadeus Cho: Love Him or Hate Him? [Archive] - Comic Book Resources Forums

DaeJi

11-25-2007, 07:54 PM

In the past year, one of the biggest supporting character in the Hulk's world has been Amadeus Cho. Which, depending on your point of view, is either a great thing or a really, really horrid thing. The kid is very polarizing; people seem to either like him or hate him. So, I thought it would be fun to see just how the scales are balanced in that little debate. Just how does fandom feel about Amadeus Cho?

Dr. Banner

11-25-2007, 08:05 PM

He's alright. I'd never buy a book where he's the star, but, I don't find him annoying at all like most seem to.

Though he does make me miss Rick Jones...

DaeJi

11-25-2007, 08:17 PM

thronzeblast

11-25-2007, 08:28 PM

If Marvel decided to literally kill him off in every single way it is possible for a human being to die all at once, and then have every single one of their other characters spit on what's left of him, it would be the single greatest moment in Marvel history.

So i take it you fall on the side that does not like him,I think he is a brilliant kid but he is Young and also Arrogant.He has alot to learn about the hero game it's not all about numbers and calculations.I think he started to get that throught his head in Ih #109.He also does not seem to be above manipulating people to get what he wants I hope he stay's around but i gotta say i dont like the way pak keeps showing him down our throats.

DaeJi

11-25-2007, 08:39 PM

So i take it you fall on the side that does not like him

What gave me away? ;)

Bryson the Red

11-25-2007, 08:41 PM

Amadeus Cho, this is for you.

*Clears throat*

Booooooooooo.

Drdmx

11-25-2007, 08:42 PM

Not sure exactly what everyone hates about him, but I dont really have a problem with the character. He's made me laugh a time or two with his wit.

Jack Flash

11-25-2007, 08:51 PM

i love him! Rock me Amadeus!

thronzeblast

11-25-2007, 08:56 PM

Rick Jones>>>>>>Amadues Cho.:)

Bryson the Red

11-25-2007, 09:14 PM

What gave me away? ;)

I think we have a distaste for almost all the same things. We must drink the same flavor of Haterade.

Dagger

11-25-2007, 09:21 PM

OMG HOW DID YOU KNOW THE PAGES WITH HIM ON IT STICK TOGETHER IN THE COPIES OF THE COMICS I HAVE WITH HIM IN IT??? ARE YOU SPYING ON ME?

I love him.

CaptainCanada

11-25-2007, 09:24 PM

Hate him so much. I hope Hercules becomes the Hyde to his Invisible Man in LoEG v.2, if you know what I mean.;)

TotalWorldDomination

11-25-2007, 09:27 PM

If Marvel decided to literally kill him off in every single way it is possible for a human being to die all at once, and then have every single one of their other characters spit on what's left of him, it would be the single greatest moment in Marvel history.

Not the greatest moment. But one of them. :D

I like greg pak, but I think he needs to publicly apologize for writing a particularly bad mary-sue into his own comic. He clearly empathizes with the character, and every time he's on the page the comic tries to force you to like him.

Perhaps with time I'll grow to like the character. I hated Layla Miller until PAD took her over... perhaps if someone else takes on writing him, he'll get bearable. but as long as Pak still writes him, I can't see liking him.

HeckBoy

11-25-2007, 09:49 PM

Enigmanaut

11-25-2007, 10:25 PM

We hates him, Precious. We hates, hates, hates the filthy little Gary-Stu!

Dagger

11-25-2007, 10:27 PM

We hates him, Precious. We hates, hates, hates the filthy little Gary-Stu!
LOL! I totally LOL'ed in real life while reading this line!

DaeJi

11-25-2007, 10:34 PM

Perhaps with time I'll grow to like the character. I hated Layla Miller until PAD took her over... perhaps if someone else takes on writing him, he'll get bearable. but as long as Pak still writes him, I can't see liking him.

Very true, I do think it's more Pak's writing than the character himself. Then again, I also hate the "cocky kid whose super smart and right all the time" character archetype. Though, I do think that if anyone could make me at the very least not black him out of my comics, it would be PAD.

God I hate the little @#$%.

mikekerr3

11-25-2007, 11:22 PM

People seem to forget Cho has few choices is options are:

1. Brain damage, think what Spin or other power blocking would do to him.

2. Involuntary Servitude /Slavery, the SHRA is a lifetime draft (unless somewhere it has been explained otherwise). I am old enough to remember the real draft in the US and you had the option of 2 Years in jail instead of service and the enlistment was for a finite time. Its also being run by the same people who did the mutant registration Act and look how that turned out, or ask Absolm Jones.

Remeber that the U. S. in the MU has death camps and torture facilities it also uses Homicide Bombers. An idiot would be too wise to trust them.

Kevinroc

11-25-2007, 11:31 PM

I like him fine. He's fun. He's basically a Hulk fanboy inserted into the Marvel Universe. (Think a good version of DC's Superboy-Prime.)

Will.S

11-25-2007, 11:44 PM

I love to hate him.

Drdmx

11-26-2007, 01:19 AM

Why can't they ever have a gracious, mature young hero who isn't just out to rail against "the man."

Rick Jones?

Karthak

11-26-2007, 06:59 AM

He's alright. Bit irritating at times, but mostly funny.

Xanrn

11-26-2007, 08:06 AM

Arilou

11-26-2007, 09:31 AM

He's awful. He's like Anakin in Episode 1 just.... Much worse.

Dark Soul # 7

11-26-2007, 12:51 PM

Why can't they ever have a gracious, mature young hero who isn't just out to rail against "the man."They have several of them. They're called the Young Avengers.

ivesaidway2much

11-26-2007, 02:28 PM

He is a crap version of Layla Milller.

Hell I hope they meet and Cho ends up dead because of Layla.

They she wraps him up in bubble wrap and sends him to the Hulk or something.

Incredible Herc will be nothing but Cho wondering around make everyone he meets look stupid and gullible.Correction. He's a rich man's Layla Miller, who's already earned his own ongoing title.

They have several of them. They're called the Young Avengers.Weren't they anti-reg?

Clea

11-26-2007, 06:28 PM

...
I like greg pak, but I think he needs to publicly apologize for writing a particularly bad mary-sue into his own comic. He clearly empathizes with the character, and every time he's on the page the comic tries to force you to like him.
...

This is exactly why I can't stand this character. He's an obnoxious Gary Stu, but Pak wants the readers to adore him. Maybe a different writer could tone down the Cho-worship enough to make the character tolerable, but I hate the character enough that I'm going to pass on the Incredible Herc book just because Cho is featured in it.

Fatguy

11-26-2007, 06:54 PM

I would like to somehow vote in-between "He's OK" and "He sucks".

Dr. Banner

11-26-2007, 07:44 PM

Monty_Cristo

11-26-2007, 07:59 PM

i like him. i've been waiting years for that kid from the Goonies to become a superhero.

I don't really like him. To me, he's just another "token uppity kid who thinks he's better than the adult character and somehow proves it at the expense of said adult character." I mean, smart as he may be, he's still really annoying and I wish one of the adult heroes would put him in his place. Why can't they ever have a gracious, mature young hero who isn't just out to rail against "the man."

Eric O'Grady?

Saint

11-26-2007, 08:34 PM

He's awful. He's like Anakin in Episode 1 just.... Much worse.

Actually he reminds me of Anakin from episode 2 and 3. He's too smug for his own good.

I don't hate him but I don't like him either. He's the Brooke Hogan of comic characters: he doesn't make enough of an impression on me to give a sh*t about him one way or the other. He's basically just there taking up valuble air.

Monty_Cristo

11-26-2007, 09:03 PM

Actually he reminds me of Anakin from episode 2 and 3. He's too smug for his own good.

I don't hate him but I don't like him either. He's the Brooke Hogan of comic characters: he doesn't make enough of an impression on me to give a sh*t about him one way or the other. He's basically just there taking up valuble air.

Amadeus has got to be a better dancer than Brooke Hogan. he probably has a nicer singing voice as well.

DaeJi

11-26-2007, 09:13 PM

I'm not liking the use of "Gary Stu" and "Mary Sue" these days, especially since people really aren't using it properly.

I actually agree with you that the terms "Mary/Gary Sue" are used too much these days, and used incorrectly. However, I do believe that Cho actually fits the term to a T.

ivesaidway2much

11-27-2007, 07:42 AM

I still don't see how the term Mary Sue applies to Amadeus Cho. I mean, the writers describe freaking Hercules as the voice of reason in comparison to him.

Karthak

11-27-2007, 09:46 AM

I still don't see how the term Mary Sue applies to Amadeus Cho. I mean, the writers describe freaking Hercules as the voice of reason in comparison to him.

Amen to that.:D

Hulkamaniac

11-27-2007, 10:02 AM

I dunno why so many people hate him so much. He's been a friend and foe to Hulk so he shows that he is self driven, not simply a heel or follower. I like the young fresh feel of a new genius mind in the MU in a time when I detest Tony and Richards. People who are Hulk bashers and Hulk lovers can find somthin to like about him in my opinion.

Enigmanaut

11-27-2007, 10:02 AM

I'm not liking the use of "Gary Stu" and "Mary Sue" these days, especially since people really aren't using it properly.

Anybody who thinks the cocky, arrogant, easily disliked Cho lacks any noteworthy flaws needs to go back and take a basic english course at school.

Being the 7th smartest person on earth and always being right because of that doesn't make one a Gary Stu/Mary Sue on its own. Luckily, all the other character flaws prevents that. Which keeps him more interesting than a real Gary Stu.

No, Cho is totally a Gary Stu. Gary Sues aren't always "without flaw" but are characters who are inserted into a mythos who represent the voice of the author themselves, and are instantly accepted by those around him. Cho has at no point in all these stories done other than say the things Pak wanted to say to characters, pointing out things to them that Pak wanted them to know. He's had instant acceptance by a group of established heroes, and SHIELD is after this kid, even though they let 6 smarter people run free. They constantly throw that "7th smartest person" moniker around to give him an authority he hasn't earned.

He's a textbook example of a GS. And next time you disagree with someone, don't tell them "they need a course"... it's just a slightly politer way of calling that person stupid.

Hulkamaniac

11-27-2007, 10:11 AM

all I gotta say is if your gonna tag a character with some terminology that forces him/her into a corner from which they cannot come out then your never going to feel any different about him/her. You've already soiled the character in your own mind. It's the same way I probably feel about Tony, I dunno if I will ever wash away the image of him being a complete ass that ruined the MU :evilsmile ( yes Tony, although some might say Joe Q. is a close second). And no Tony bashing aint over, it probably just began, lol.

ivesaidway2much

11-27-2007, 11:33 AM

No, Cho is totally a Gary Stu. Gary Sues aren't always "without flaw" but are characters who are inserted into a mythos who represent the voice of the author themselves, and are instantly accepted by those around him.In his first appearance on the Road to World War Hulk, She-Hulk told him to get lost and Samson nearly killed him. Where was the instant acceptance? Plus it seems like the first issue of Incredible Herc will feature half of his team abandonning him.

Cho has at no point in all these stories done other than say the things Pak wanted to say to characters, pointing out things to them that Pak wanted them to know.Every character in every comic fits this description. Every character is an avatar for the authtor. The only reason Wolverine ever says or does anything is because Bendis, Whedon, Way, or whoever the heck is the author of Wolverine wants him to. Or are there some characters who act against the wishes of their writers?

TotalWorldDomination

11-27-2007, 12:09 PM

He's actualy a perfect example of a "Cannon Sue". Lets turn it over to the good folks from Wikipedia shall we?

A "canon Sue" may also refer to a character whose canon portrayal itself is seen as a "Mary Sue," rather than a character who has been altered in fan fiction. Typically, this refers to a character accused of being overly idealized or having other traits traditionally associated with fan fiction "Mary Sues," such as being "special" by having a gratuitously tragic past, unrealistic skills, or a seeming inability for the character to do wrong. Characters such as Wesley Crusher[1] and Amanda Rogers[1] in Star Trek: The Next Generation have been criticized as being "Mary Sues."

Lets look at that-

gratuitously tragic past... Check (Family Death, being hunted by mysterious forces).
unrealistic skills... Check (Somehow manages to do things that Reed and Tony cannot do with there vast intellect dispite being less intellegent then them by his own ranking system).
seeming inability for the character to do wrong... Check (When was the last time this kid failed or was proven wrong at ANYTHING).
being the Hulk universe version of Wesley Crusher, boy genius... Check!

And lets not forget that on top of being a Cannon Sue, he's an ANNOYING Cannon Sue. I still say kill him.

Hrungr

11-27-2007, 12:26 PM

seeming inability for the character to do wrong... Check (When was the last time this kid failed or was proven wrong at ANYTHING).
I like Cho myself, though I can see how he might polarize opinions in others. I wanted to point out though that Cho has been wrong and failed in the past. For example:

- He almost got Banner killed the first time they met.
- He tried to recruit She-Hulk and failed.
- He tried to recruit Namor, who in no uncertain terms told him to @#$% off and punched a hole in his boat before swimming off.
- Gabe Jones of Shield had to give Cho the third degree to get him to help coordinate the relief effort during WWH.

ivesaidway2much

11-27-2007, 12:39 PM

He's actualy a perfect example of a "Cannon Sue". Lets turn it over to the good folks from Wikipedia shall we?

Lets look at that-

gratuitously tragic past... Check (Family Death, being hunted by mysterious forces).Hardly gratuitous. That's gotta be the origin story for like 20-25% of all the major superheroes.

unrealistic skills... Check (Somehow manages to do things that Reed and Tony cannot do with there vast intellect dispite being less intellegent then them by his own ranking system).What has he managed to do that was really all that impressive?

seeming inability for the character to do wrong... Check (When was the last time this kid failed or was proven wrong at ANYTHING).In his very first appearance on the road to WWH he failed to convince She-Hulk to join his side. He tried to get the Hulk to relocate to Gamma World. And the Hulk (rightly so) told him what a stupid idea it was to his face. And he failed to find a permanent cure for SPIN.

I'm still not seeing how any [fill-in-the-blank] Sue title applies to Amadeus Cho. He's arrogant know-it-all who manipulates people for his own self-serving needs. And yet, on top of that, he still manages to show a complete and utter lack of common sense, as has been noted by numerous characters in practically every story he has appeared in.

Rolltideguy77

11-27-2007, 01:19 PM

Cho=Skrull meat

Kevinroc

11-27-2007, 05:31 PM

Cho=Skrull meat

He's already calculated a way to detect who the Skrulls are. :p

Dr. Banner

11-27-2007, 06:32 PM

I'm still not seeing how any [fill-in-the-blank] Sue title applies to Amadeus Cho. He's arrogant know-it-all who manipulates people for his own self-serving needs. And yet, on top of that, he still manages to show a complete and utter lack of common sense, as has been noted by numerous characters in practically every story he has appeared in.

Bingo!
If, as a Sue character, he's written as a wish fulfillment fantasy for Greg Pak... then seriously, he has issues and doesn't want to have ANY friends to help him through those issues.

It's fine to hate Cho, he's written to be not liked by everyone (fictional and readership) because of his negative character traits. Which proves the point that he can't be a Sue character. Anybody who thinks he's perfect really needs to look up the word "perfect" sometime. He's just really smart. That's it.

DaeJi

11-27-2007, 06:40 PM

It's fine to hate Cho, he's written to be not liked by everyone (fictional and readership) because of his negative character traits. Which proves the point that he can't be a Sue character. Anybody who thinks he's perfect really needs to look up the word "perfect" sometime. He's just really smart. That's it.

Just because he has negative character traits doesn't mean he isn't a ____ Sue. It's more the fact that people who don't even like him fawn over his abilities (except for Namor, who just thinks he's better than everyone else anyway) and the fact that he always seems to be right and get away with stuff. Not to mention there was that little issue where he explained away all of the Hulk's rampages in the most contrived manner possible, and the fact that Herc thinks he's such a cool little kid despite the fact that Cho tricked him into attacking a S.H.I.E.L.D. helicarrier by shooting missiles are him. And why Angel didn't strangle the little prick away he found out that Cho stole his money and then wasted a ton it is beyond me.

I'm sorry, a few negative traits doesn't mean that Cho isn't a writer's wish fulfillment. And this may just be me, but I'm thinking that we are suppost to like Cho.

ANewHope

11-27-2007, 06:46 PM

I seriously hate this kid.

Although I re-read the Incredible Hulk WWH tie in's, and thought the art and storytelling was really well done. This will be the only reason why I will be reading/trying the first arc of "The Incredible Herc".

The Hulk needs to cross the line and make his first kill ever by snuffing out Choi. Thereby proving him wrong. Or The Red Hulk needs to kill Choi...

Or Choi needs to become a villian due to his obsessive compulsive admiration of the Hulk. I have no idea how this would happen, but Choi needs to either die or to become a villan.

I hate Choi the way he currently is written..

And since Greg Pak won't be writing his character anymore, more than likely Choi will become more annoying than ever.

SEriously. Kill this character off already.

Dr. Banner

11-27-2007, 07:00 PM

Just because he has negative character traits doesn't mean he isn't a ____ Sue.

Actually, the definition of a ____ Sue IS to have "no noteworthy flaws".

Why are people trying to change the definition? Is it really that easy?

From now on, the word "cellular" will be used to describe "any brown, drinkable beverage." Because I simply say so.

Is it REALLY just that easy?

DaeJi

11-27-2007, 07:04 PM

Actually, the definition of a ____ Sue IS to have "no noteworthy flaws".

Why are people trying to change the definition? Is it really that easy?

From now on, the word "cellular" will be used to describe "any brown, drinkable beverage." Because I simply say so.

Is it REALLY just that easy?

Oy.... fine, for now I'll just say that Cho is Pak's pet character. Happy now?

Dr. Banner

11-27-2007, 07:10 PM

Oy.... fine, for now I'll just say that Cho is Pak's pet character. Happy now?

lol, very much so.

I'm down with that, nothing against that at all. :)

Enigmanaut

11-27-2007, 07:10 PM

Never mind. Bad mood.

Rolltideguy77

11-27-2007, 09:12 PM

DaeJi

11-27-2007, 09:15 PM

Sadly for myself and the other Cho haters he probably will not be killed off. I cant see Marvel too big on killing kids off. Maybe he will get hooked up with those New X-Men kids, one of them seems to bite it every issue. Seriously he just kinda seems to be a plot device to me, the kid who is smarter than everyone on the planet befriends a strange relationship with the biggest, dumbest creature on the planet.

I think that if Cho was placed in the hands of another writer, he may actually come off as readable. Pak seems to love the character too much; after seeing what PAD did with Layla Miller, I would kill to see his take on Cho.

dr. dremo

11-28-2007, 01:35 AM

I hate Cho because superheroes don't let me tag along on their wacky adventures.

I also hate Herc for makin moves on my girl.

AJ Valliant

08-26-2009, 11:24 AM

If not full on Mary Sue, he does seem to an author surrogate; a way for Pak to insert his "clever but isolated" teenage self into the world of heroes. I found it immensely irritating to begin with, but Pak is an excellent writer, so I now feel more of a mix of annoyance and interest.

If the parallels between himself and Cho were less obvious I could deal with the annoying smart kid chumping A-list powerhouses, but it comes off as desperate wish fulfillment (if well written wish fulfillment). The character has become more interesting with time though, so perhaps eventually (under a different author) I could grow to enjoy him more.

Criticism of Cho aside, I really enjoy Pak's stuff, so I'm inclined to give him a little more slack for ego fueled self indulgence than I would most authors.

Arschloch

08-26-2009, 11:54 AM

I'd rather see Cho become a villain, in a Kid Miracle Man or Ozymandias kind of way.

scouse mouse

08-26-2009, 11:56 AM

He is all right. I preferred him with Kirby. In fact I wish Kirby would come back, I loved that coyote.

coconutphone

08-26-2009, 11:58 AM

From what I've read I love him.

HeckBoy

08-26-2009, 12:59 PM

I don't really like him. To me, he's just another "token uppity kid who thinks he's better than the adult character and somehow proves it at the expense of said adult character." I mean, smart as he may be, he's still really annoying and I wish one of the adult heroes would put him in his place. Why can't they ever have a gracious, mature young hero who isn't just out to rail against "the man."Wow, how times have changed.:redface: Since Cho started pal-ing around with Herc, my attitude towards him has turned a 180. I don't know if he's one of my favorites exactly (I started liking him b/c of his partnership w/ Herc, so I'm not sure how interested I'd be in him if he went solo or joined a different team), but I do like him now.