Should some villains remain joke villains or should they be more serious?

[The Master Meglomaniac]

Should some villains remain joke villains or should they be more serious? Over at DC Gail Simone was able to turn a D-lister like Catman into a serious character, so should some of the D-listers in Marvel be made serious or should they remain jokes? Walrus was created to be a joke, so its hard to take him seriously, but one time Stilt-Man was supposed to be a serious threat. So which villains should be serious and which should be jokes?

[Nyssane]

I think it's nice to have joke villains around... to make every villain serious would take away from the whole comic book aspect of it all. I, for one, could never see the White Rabbit taken seriously. The Walrus, neither. But I hate that writers seem to feel like there's no place for them in current comics, so they kill them off to advance the shock value of their stories.

The Great Lakes Avengers need their own Rogues Gallery.

[thronzeblast]

http://www.imagehost.ro/pict/24204521474871412f9a0.jpg



The Slug's only "power" is his immense fat: he may weigh more than one thousand pounds. Unlike the Blob, the Slug has no means of compensating for this mass, so he is almost immobile when not making use of a high-tech personal hovercraft. It has been suggested that the Slug is a mutant, with his mutation allowing him to live and function (albeit in a limited fashion) with his massive girth. Offensively, the Slug is known to asphyxiate his victims (usually underlings who failed or displeased him) in the folds of his fat

[RowdyRodimus]

You have to have "joke" villains in the stories. If you make someone like The Gibbon into a world beater, that takes away from the specialness of someone like Dr. Doom.

[The Master Meglomaniac]

You have to have "joke" villains in the stories. If you make someone like The Gibbon into a world beater, that takes away from the specialness of someone like Dr. Doom.

One doesn't have to be world beater to be taken seriously. Neither Bullseye nor Kingpin are world beaters and they are serious villains. The difference between a serious villain and joke villain is a serious villain can present a real threat to the hero and have a story arc based around them, while ajoke villain dosen't last more than issue and is treated like a loser. I'm wondering where the line between serious and joke villains should be drawn?

[Alan2099]

So what's wrong with a villian that doesn't last more than an issue and is treated like a loser? Not everybody that puts on tights and flies is going to be dangerous. There are some real idiots in the world so it only makes sense that there are some real idiots that end up with superpowers.

[The Master Meglomaniac]

So what's wrong with a villian that doesn't last more than an issue and is treated like a loser? Not everybody that puts on tights and flies is going to be dangerous. There are some real idiots in the world so it only makes sense that there are some real idiots that end up with superpowers.

There is nothing wrong with it, I'm just wondering when a villain would be better off as a joke and when they would be better off as a serious character. Most people were happy with Gail Simone's revamp of Catman for example.

Certain villains like Walrus were created to be jokes, so making them into serious characters would be bad. What about Stilt-Man, though, who was created as a serious character and became joke over the years, would he work better as joke or a serious villain?

Plus there some villains who get treated like jokes unfairly, Mr. Hyde should be a very powerful and scary vilain, but sometime DD or Cap beats him in within the space of a page.

[Nyssane]

Plus there some villains who get treated like jokes unfairly, Mr. Hyde should be a very powerful and scary vilain, but sometime DD or Cap beats him in within the space of a page.

Well, it all depends on the writing. It's the same with the Serpent Society. These are characters who were able to accomplish most of what they set out to do. Anaconda on her own was able to stand her ground against Captain America, yet a decade later, Cap is able to defeat Anaconda in one panel. None of it really makes any sense. That's why I love writers like Gage, who can make characters like the Death-Throws at least somewhat threatening, or Van Lente utilizing "lame villains" in the MODOK's 11 mini-series and making them vastly interesting.

[RolandJP]

Bring back CLOR!!!!

[TotalWorldDomination]

Bring back CLOR!!!!

I heard a rumor that he is planed to return in the pages of the new Thor comic under the name "Ragnarok". I even believe there were sketches of the characters new design in wizard. Here's hoping that Tony, Hank and Reed gave him an upgrade, cause if Herc can beat him with relative ease, then Thor's going to crush him in unimaginable ways.

[Monty_Cristo]

Should some villains remain joke villains or should they be more serious? Over DC Gail simne was able to turn a D-lister like Catman into a serious character, so should some of the D-listers in Marvel be made serious or should they remain jokes? Walrus was created to be a joke, so its hard to take him seriously, but one time Stilt-Man was supposed to be a serious threat. So which villains should be serious and which should be jokes?


i think the number of villains who are jokes is relatively low, already. i think there should be criminals who only pose a minor threat; just as there are superheroes who aren't particularly skilled. it's just realistic. what's more important to me is what they look like. i like my villains to have decent costumes; regardless of threat-level. there are a number of artists i favor simply because they can make any costume look good; Carlos Pacheco, for instance. the Walrus would look cool if drawn by Pacheco (or Immonen or Copiel).

Bring back CLOR!!!!

if he comes back, i think he should be partially disfigured like Bizzaro.

[DaeJi]

I like joke villains; I think there should be a few villains here and there that don't really pose a threat to all but the more inexperienced heroes. And children.

And the blue... am I the only one getting this?

[Monty_Cristo]

I like joke villains; I think there should be a few villains here and there that don't really pose a threat to all but the more inexperienced heroes. And children.

And the blue... am I the only one getting this?

huh? are you talking about Code Blue?

[Erik Lehnsherr]

You need those kind of jobber villians in books like Amazing Spider-Man. Guys to keep Spider-Man distracted while he needs to get to a real issue or something at times.

[Monty_Cristo]

You need those kind of jobber villians in books like Amazing Spider-Man. Guys to keep Spider-Man distracted while he needs to get to a real issue or something at times.

the good thing about these types of villains is that pretty much anything can be done with them. writers can take more risks with them. they are also good for fleshing out; ex. showing Whirlwind at his high school reunion.

[PunisherFan]

i like some of the lamer villains, guys created to be losers, like Walrus or The Spot. But I hate it when a character is just so bad that they become a joke and nothing of importance is done with them... like The Looter or Hydroman. Some have potential and some do not, and should just be killed off like Goldbug Or Stiltman

[The Master Meglomaniac]

i think the number of villains who are jokes is relatively low, already. i think there should be criminals who only pose a minor threat; just as there are superheroes who aren't particularly skilled. it's just realistic. what's more important to me is what they look like. i like my villains to have decent costumes; regardless of threat-level. there are a number of artists i favor simply because they can make any costume look good; Carlos Pacheco, for instance. the Walrus would look cool if drawn by Pacheco (or Immonen or Copiel).

.

I would say in light of this: http://daredevil.dreamhost.com/ttstilts.htm that Stilt-man is a joke villain. When a hero deals out extra humiliating defeats to a villain on a regular basis that villain becomes a joke. Losing is one thing, but villains who can't keep their dignity look pathetic.


What I'm asking is which villains would benefit by being taking more seriously and which villains benefit by not being taken seriously?

[overcomebyfumes]

They should make MODOK's Eleven into a regular series, with MODOK assembling a new team of D-listers to be featured in each new mission/story-arc.

pax.

[Cambert]

I'm of two schools of thought on this. On one hand I started reading comics with Spider-Man and it think it's fair to say that he has some of the more jokey villains around (Kangaroo, Hypo-Hustler, Typeface, etc.) It was fun to get a break from the seriousness and see him fight these guys. You know he's going to win and being Spider-Man it'll be funny.

So create joke villains, but don't take existing villains and make them a joke. I just think it's lazy writing to take a character that was created to be a serious villain and just because he doesn't go over well to make him a joke character. Also over looking previous success to keep a character as a joke is overly done. Going back to Spidey I'm mad every time one of his classic rouges turns up and because they aren't cool or the writer can't think of anything interesting to do with them into a jobber and sometimes a joke.

That said I think most any villain could be written to make them more serious/threatening IF they are not created for the sole purpose of a joke.

[Cambert]

What I'm asking is which villains would benefit by being taking more seriously and which villains benefit by not being taken seriously?
In that case I think The Shocker could benefit but it's not going to happen because he'll always be a punchline despite his previous track record.

Sorry for the double post but I didn't see this until after...

[The Master Meglomaniac]

I'm of two schools of thought on this. On one hand I started reading comics with Spider-Man and it think it's fair to say that he has some of the more jokey villains around (Kangaroo, Hypo-Hustler, Typeface, etc.) It was fun to get a break from the seriousness and see him fight these guys. You know he's going to win and being Spider-Man it'll be funny.

So create joke villains, but don't take existing villains and make them a joke. I just think it's lazy writing to take a character that was created to be a serious villain and just because he doesn't go over well to make him a joke character. Also over looking previous success to keep a character as a joke is overly done. Going back to Spidey I'm mad every time one of his classic rouges turns up and because they aren't cool or the writer can't think of anything interesting to do with them into a jobber and sometimes a joke.

That said I think most any villain could be written to make them more serious/threatening IF they are not created for the sole purpose of a joke.

What about villains who haven't aged well and in modern times many fans think that villain's gimmick is lame, like Stilt-Man. How could be he made into a serious villain?

I will agree with you about Shocker though, he should be like the Marvel version of Captain Cold (a thief with a code of ethics).

[Cambert]

What about villains who haven't aged well and in modern times many fans think that villain's gimmick is lame, like Stilt-Man. How could be he made into a serious villain?

I will agree with you about Shocker though, he should be like the Marvel version of Captain Cold (a thief with a code of ethics).

In regards to Stilt-Man I don't know. I have not read many of his older appearances, but I think I understand a little of his story. If one were to make him a serious villain they'd need to do a lot of revamping. Like extra features to his armor, or a different strategy for him to use. They could go the way of DC and just shift the character away from their goofy costumed antics. Make Stilt-Man design armor for villains. The later would probably be the best way to make him a serious threat. In any case of villains that have no aged well I feel that if they find the hook, the thing that could/does make the villain a treat and use that then they could. Granted he doesn't get jobbed out in that reappearance they could have a shot.

Also someone like Hypo-Hustler who was a fad themed villain could maybe work if well written. He could be a low level Purple Man like character.

[The Master Meglomaniac]

In regards to Stilt-Man I don't know. I have not read many of his older appearances, but I think I understand a little of his story. If one were to make him a serious villain they'd need to do a lot of revamping. Like extra features to his armor, or a different strategy for him to use. They could go the way of DC and just shift the character away from their goofy costumed antics. Make Stilt-Man design armor for villains. The later would probably be the best way to make him a serious threat. In any case of villains that have no aged well I feel that if they find the hook, the thing that could/does make the villain a treat and use that then they could. Granted he doesn't get jobbed out in that reappearance they could have a shot.

Also someone like Hypo-Hustler who was a fad themed villain could maybe work if well written. He could be a low level Purple Man like character.

Some villains could benefit from a change of gimmicks, like trapster switching from a glue gun to death traps.

As for Hypo-Hustler, you take away the fad and you take away the charm.

[davek]

Strangely enough, I kind of like Stilt-Man better now. Not as a villain per se, but as a person who finally determined he wasn't cut out for this supervillain business and got the hell out. That's actually a more engaging storyline to me. Now it would be interesting to see the former Stilt-Man pop up as a normal person trying to put that past behind him.

[seeso]

Strangely enough, I kind of like Stilt-Man better now. Not as a villain per se, but as a person who finally determined he wasn't cut out for this supervillain business and got the hell out. That's actually a more engaging storyline to me. Now it would be interesting to see the former Stilt-Man pop up as a normal person trying to put that past behind him.

Stilt-Man's dead.

[Arilou]

Some villains could benefit from a change of gimmicks, like trapster switching from a glue gun to death traps.

As for Hypo-Hustler, you take away the fad and you take away the charm.

I think you can tell lots of touching stories about the "failed" villains like Hypno-Hustler: Someone who is just plain BAD at what he does. Or even someone who might have been a threat once but isn't anymore.

There is a kind of Quixiotic dignity in a lot of these characters that I like.