AKIRA: still number 1?

[Joe Bullseye]

Does anybody else still hold Akira as the best anime of all time?

[jesse_custer]

Compared to about 99.9 percent of the anime out there, it's easier to construct a coherent and believable argument that Akira is the greatest.

[Quilt]

It's up there for sure, but the confusing and slightly convoluted storyline in Akira holds it back. I would put one of Hayao Miyazaki's best movies above Akira for instance. Plus when I think of just how grandiose and amazing the manga was, I always feel a little let down by the anime.

Mind you, I've never seen Akira without dubbing, which is always offputting for me. I forget which character it is, but one of the voices sounds like the guy who did Michaelangelo for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. I wouldn't be surprised if it is the same guy. I'm constantly waiting for the character to yell "Kowabunga!" or something. It's a little distracting.

[DirtyHarrington]

I wouldn't really call Akira #1, or even a contender for the position.

DONT GET ME WRONG. I like the movie. But I just sort of look at it like a popcorn flick.

There are loads of anime better than it.

[jesse_custer]

The confusion at the end has aroused more thought than just about anything else in the anime world. And the cool thing is that if you watch it more than once, the conclusion makes more and more sense.

At the same time, I could see one of Miyazaki's best films being placed above Akira.

[jesse_custer]

DONT GET ME WRONG. I like the movie. But I just sort of look at it like a popcorn flick.

There are loads of anime better than it.

Popcorn flick? Wow. I guess 2001 is a popcorn flick, too.

If there's one thing Akira avoids, it's being a popcorn flick.

[DirtyHarrington]

Naw, I'd say it's pretty popcorny. Lots of action and explosions, some deep stuff, and then a big showdown and whatnot with lasers and motorcycles and more explosions.

And 2001 wasn't a popcorn flick, 2001 was just a bad flick. (ohsnap did I just go there?)

[Bellis]

I like Akira a lot, it's much better than people give it credit for (bitching about the story being compressed - I can't tell, but then I haven't read the manga), but it is pretty popcorny. Yeah, there's some deep stuff in there and a pretty decent story, but it's an action film first and foremost, albeit one a bit different from the norm.

[jesse_custer]

A popcorn flick, by definition, has little to nothing "deep" or "confusing" about it. A popcorn flick seeks the widest possible audience, which Akira does not.

And someone is so badass for calling 2001 a "bad movie." Oh snap, indeed.

[DirtyHarrington]

A popcorn flick, by definition, has little to nothing "deep" or "confusing" about it. A popcorn flick seeks the widest possible audience, which Akira does not.

And someone is so badass for calling 2001 a "bad movie." Oh snap, indeed.

Well, I didn't say it was confusing. Also, I don't think all popcorn flicks are without character development and "deep" stuff. So maybe you just have a different definition and take "popcorn flick" as a derogatory term, or you really really like Akira in which case I might as well give up seeing how you're not willing to look at its flaws realistically.

EDIT:
Might as well just add this too. Akira came out in 1988, there were already loads of anime better than it before that, so really it was never the best. Ever

[Bellis]

I don't think Akira's especially confusing - you can switch your brain off and enjoy it at a surface level of "guy gets powers and rampages about the place" if you want. You don't need to have any kind of grasp the story to enjoy it, and that makes it a bit of a popcorn flick in my eyes. It has more story and more ideas to it than a typical action film, but that doesn't really matter to more casual viewers who might see it as a "typical anime", full of explosions, gore, some tits and a nonsense storyline.

I'm still incredibly fond of the film. It got me into watching all these stupid, brilliant Japanese cartoons in the first place, but it's not the best ever. It's important in the grand scheme of things, but Number 1? Naw.

[jesse_custer]

Well, I didn't say it was confusing. Also, I don't think all popcorn flicks are without character development and "deep" stuff. So maybe you just have a different definition and take "popcorn flick" as a derogatory term, or you really really like Akira in which case I might as well give up seeing how you're not willing to look at its flaws realistically.

Quilt and I had already commented on the confusion of the film for many viewers, and you didn't dispute that. Anyway, I don't think popcorn flick is a derogatory term, just an incorrect one in this case. Let me put it this way: A true popcorn flick would not take the risks that Akira takes with the conclusion. The ending of this film has pissed off quite a few people because of its vagueness. Furthermore, you haven't cited any flaws for me to consider, so I think you're jumping to conclusions.

I don't think Akira's especially confusing - you can switch your brain off and enjoy it at a surface level of "guy gets powers and rampages about the place" if you want.

Well, you can switch your brain off and enjoy The Godfather as a "bunch of gangsters icing each other in cool ways," but that doesn't mean it's a popcorn flick. Whether or not you can switch your brain off has nothing to do with the thematic and artistic presentation of a film. It's just your personal choice of whether to look at it for what it actually is.

[Ghost]

I'm slightly embarassed to admit that I've actually never seen or read Akira.

[Bellis]

Well, you can switch your brain off and enjoy The Godfather as a "bunch of gangsters icing each other in cool ways," but that doesn't mean it's a popcorn flick. Whether or not you can switch your brain off has nothing to do with the thematic and artistic presentation of a film. It's just your personal choice of whether to look at it for what it actually is.

Well, sure. It's just one way of looking at it, not the "right way" or anything like that - if there is such a thing. Like I say, Akira has more to it than just action, but it CAN be enjoyed on a base level without examining every facet of the storyline. In that sense it can be reduced to a popcorn film if you so wish, but as your example proved, so can plenty of other films. :D

[Ramiel]

The confusion at the end has aroused more thought than just about anything else in the anime world.

I don't know about that. Evangelion, Ergo Proxy and possibly Betterman I would say arouses as much thought as Akira did. I'd also say some Satoshi Kon's movies warrant probably the same deal.

I wouldn't say Akira is the best anime out there, it's great, but not the best.

[Thorlief]

I never considered Akira the best anime of all time, and never will since others are the titles I'd put at the top of that list

I find it quite boring, must say

[Sir Lord Harris Chesterton]

Akira blew my sizzled mind away, and the comic has changed my life, so I think I owe it to Otomo that AKIRA is number one everything.
Does anyone think like me that the manga has lost readership among today's manga readers?

[Joe Bullseye]

I'm slightly embarassed to admit that I've actually never seen or read Akira.

WOW! I think it's time ghost. I do recomend you read the books too. I prefer the books actually and I still hold the Movie as #1 in my anime collection. It is so vivid in color and motion, art wise it is amazing, and as a deep story it is well, deep. Do yourself a favor and get to it.

Thanks for all the responces, keep it up!

[The Xenos]

I guess it all depends on taste. I like Akira and it's still one of THE big anime movies. Then agian, note that I said movie. Anime films and anime TV shows are quite different

Meanwhile Akira is a sci fi movie from the 80s. You could just rate it as that and ignore that it's 'anime'. I think it was created more as that than to be the poster child of anime in America. That just happened. This and Ghost in the Shell were THE anime films to see in the 90s. Plus films were easier to find and see than whole TV series.

Though, personally, Evangelion is still #1 in my book. That's just me. It was also the one that really got me into anime, yet, nothing has quite topped it. Maybe Berserk, Blame! (manga), or Battle Angel Alita (manga). Though again, those are personal picks.

That's the trouble with anime. Anime isn't a genre like some people think. It's just a format and even then it can take on different formsts alike TV series or film. There are so many different types of stories, it's difficult to compare them directly. You're comparing comedies to dramas to action films.

[Ramiel]

That's the trouble with anime. Anime isn't a genre like some people think. It's just a format and even then it can take on different formsts alike TV series or film. There are so many different types of stories, it's difficult to compare them directly. You're comparing comedies to dramas to action films.

No one here is disputing that anime itself isn't a genre. You can still ask someone, what's your #1 anime in the same way you can ask someone what's their #1 movie without genre restrictions.

[Thorlief]

exactly. OP is asking if you consider Akira the best anime ever, it's like asking what in your opinion is the best videogame ever

[Quilt]

The first half-dozen times I watched Akira the endings never quite made sense to me. It was just metaphysical philisophical mumbo-jumbo to me. It was cool, but it didn't make sense. After I read Akira, the ending made far more sense.

That's what holds Akira back as a standalone film though. In order to really understand it, you need to have read the comic. If you haven't, the ending becomes open-ended towards interpretation. While this may seem like a good thing on the surface, it actually makes the ending rather weak and shallow.

Has anyone else here ever tried to debate with someone who refuses to actually take a position? It's frustrating during the debate, but when you're done you actually realize what an idiot the other person is. That's what the ending is kind of like in Akira.

Of course, I like Akira a hell of a lot more than any douche-bag Philosophy 101 star-student. Bloody Philosophy majors. Useless tits.

[Renzo]

There are so many better anime movies out there than Akira. You have Grave of the Fireflies, Patlabor III, Spirited Away, Jin-Roh, Voices of the Distant Star, etc. And then, that's not even considering the tv series, which are usually much better than the movies. RahXephon and Evangelion are both incredible. Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Boogiepop Phantom, Outlaw Star, Ergo Proxy, Paranoia Agent, Kino's Journey, and the list goes on and on. Akira was benchmark for its time and nothing more.

[Quilt]

Akira was benchmark for its time and nothing more.

That sums things up very nicely.

[cappa donna]

WOW! I think it's time ghost. I do recomend you read the books too. I prefer the books actually and I still hold the Movie as #1 in my anime collection. It is so vivid in color and motion, art wise it is amazing, and as a deep story it is well, deep. Do yourself a favor and get to it.

Thanks for all the responces, keep it up!

Yea, definitely two cheers for Ghost (I think it's the avatar).
I've never read a single manga in my life, so I'm not burdened by having to compare every single anime I see to another iteration. I've only seen Akira once I remember being bored. I hold Fist Of The North Star as the undisputed #1 classic anime of all time. Ghost in a shell is intriging but too complex. Ninja Scroll is just a nice action-adventure romp. Sprited Away is a nice coming of age tale, but I was bored the second time around so it's eliminted for lack of replay value. Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust is just SICK!

[jesse_custer]

There are so many better anime movies out there than Akira. You have Grave of the Fireflies, Patlabor III, Spirited Away, Jin-Roh, Voices of the Distant Star, etc. And then, that's not even considering the tv series, which are usually much better than the movies. RahXephon and Evangelion are both incredible. Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Boogiepop Phantom, Outlaw Star, Ergo Proxy, Paranoia Agent, Kino's Journey, and the list goes on and on. Akira was benchmark for its time and nothing more.

Well, I think it's a bit unfair to directly compare television series to films, since series have more opportunities to get things right. Now, you could argue that Evangelion has done more for television than Akira has for film. But that would be a hard argument to make, seeing as how Akira changed the way America would look at animated films forever.

If anything, Akira is still a benchmark. Most modern anime films STILL don't match the brilliance of Akira's animation. Most of them still haven't developed a bonafide mythology among viewers, either.

[Renzo]

Well, I think it's a bit unfair to directly compare television series to films, since series have more opportunities to get things right. Now, you could argue that Evangelion has done more for television than Akira has for film. But that would be a hard argument to make, seeing as how Akira changed the way America would look at animated films forever.

If anything, Akira is still a benchmark. Most modern anime films STILL don't match the brilliance of Akira's animation. Most of them still haven't developed a bonafide mythology among viewers, either.

Well, I agree and disagree. TV series have more chances to get things right but also more chances to get things wrong, the latter is usually what happens. I think it a VERY difficult to tell a good story in 2 hours. Therefore, my top 5 favorite anime series (maybe even my top 10) easily beat out my favorite anime movies. So, it is unfair, in a way, to compare. But, as I said before, Akira had its time but has been outclassed since. When anime popularity decreases or disappears from the American culture (which could happen soon if the fansub/downloading issue is not resolved), Akira was still be remembered.

[Totoro Man]

so far as television versus movies are concerned.

in some ways I think it's easier for a television series... because you've got time to develop things (both artistically and technically). I believe "Perfect Blue" was planned as a television series, but they simply didn't have the budget for it. so I guess they had to pack it all into a movie.

on the bright side, when you're making a movie you have to make everything count. a lot of TV shows have filler, or dead-space, where they're obviously just trying to figure out where they're going (I'm looking at you DBZ and Naruto).

so it's like comparing apples to burritos.. ..

Akira is not number 1 on my anime list--it has too many problems as a stand-alone film. the only reason I like the movie now is because I've read the entire manga.

Akira, the MANGA , on the other hand is a science-fiction/fantasy masterpiece. the book deserves all of the praise it's received thus far and perhaps a little extra on the side.

(wow, somebody actually liked Jin-Roh? I found that movie to be impossible dull and frustrating. I wish Mamoru Oshii would try working on a comedy again--he takes himself so damned seriously! just my opinion, but Jin Roh is far too self-important and not nearly entertaining enough. Akira is not as "refined" as Jin Roh, but it's a far more enjoyable movie... or, maybe it's just that the English dub of Jin Roh was an abomination. ;) )

I'd take "Paranoia Agent" over "Jin Roh" any day of the week.

if you haven't, for some bizarre reason, read the manga go out and grab it. it's better than the movie in nearly every way. the ONLY thing that disappointed me about the manga was the absence of the infamous 'teddy bear' sequence. but it has so many other moments that are awesome (which never get shown in the movie) that I can live with that.

[jesse_custer]

The only anime films I would take over Akira would be Spirited Away or Ninja Scroll. But even then, one could still argue that Akira is more important to anime filmmaking.

Given the responses in this thread and many other comments I've read at other sites, I could almost say Akira is slightly underrated.

And just so that everyone knows, Akira is not my favorite anime to watch. In fact, I would probably wouldn't watch it this week if someone wanted to. However, it's one of those rare cases in art where it doesn't matter if anyone likes the material or not. It simply exists as an incredible example of where we can go with expression.

[Joe Bullseye]

I guess it is time for my thoughts.

I first watched Akira in 1988 when it came to the states. I was 17. Let me tell you, it sucked big time. I hated everything about it. It bored me to tears. I almost fell asleep.
So time went by. I was in my mid 20's. A friend of mine put it on and even though I remembered it being bad I figured I would give it a second chance. I fell in love with the art but didn't fully understand the story. Again I let it slip though the cracks.
Well, about 2 years ago I worked in a comic shop. It was upon me once again. I am older and wiser now and let me tell you I fell in love with every aspect of it. The art, the story, the flow was just increadible. I had never seen anything like it. I think this movie is just so deep and yet so in your face that you just can't ignore it. I bought and read the manga for the first time and that was it for me. It is my number one. I guess age and experience helps to get the point of the story. The whole thing about anyone having the power of god in them and the randomness of the universe is just simply amazing.
Well anyway, I just wanted to know where it stood with others these days. So, there it is.

[Thorlief]

The only anime films I would take over Akira would be Spirited Away or Ninja Scroll. But even then, one could still argue that Akira is more important to anime filmmaking.

Given the responses in this thread and many other comments I've read at other sites, I could almost say Akira is slightly underrated.

And just so that everyone knows, Akira is not my favorite anime to watch. In fact, I would probably wouldn't watch it this week if someone wanted to. However, it's one of those rare cases in art where it doesn't matter if anyone likes the material or not. It simply exists as an incredible example of where we can go with expression.

don't get me wrong, Akira is immensely important for the animated cinema, I will never deny this simple fact. It's just that I've watched better movies

[Ramiel]

don't get me wrong, Akira is immensely important for the animated cinema, I will never deny this simple fact. It's just that I've watched better movies

Exactly, it's not about Akira's importance to anime cinema, it's about the quality. Not to say it's not of excellent quality, it is, but I've seen better anime in quality terms

[jesse_custer]

I would argue that Akira's high quality in a number of categories--animation, for example--is one of the main reasons it is so important.

[Ramiel]

I would argue that Akira's high quality in a number of categories--animation, for example--is one of the main reasons it is so important.

Yeah, but no one is arguing the importance of Akira here. It is important, no arguing on that part really, but there are better anime quality-wise

[jesse_custer]

What I'm saying is that importance should also be considered in evaluating the overall greatness of a film. If we didn't consider influence and importance, then a movie with great direction, great acting, great dialogue, and great music but with NOT ONE ORIGINAL IDEA could be called the greatest, which is quite the oversight.

[Ramiel]

What I'm saying is that importance should also be considered in evaluating the overall greatness of a film. If we didn't consider influence and importance, then a movie with great direction, great acting, great dialogue, and great music but with NOT ONE ORIGINAL IDEA could be called the greatest, which is quite the oversight.

I understand what you're saying, but I still basically stand by what I said before. No one is discounting Akira is important or the fact that is an awesome film as well, it is easily, but that doesn't mean that something necessarily can't be better because it wasn't as important or revolutionary as Akira. Personally, I enjoyed End Of Evangelion better, is it as important as Akira was, no, not at all. I enjoyed the story more, the overall flow and I felt it was a satisfying conclusion to the Evangelion saga.

Of course, that's pure opinion really. There is no arguing Akira was more important, but I personally don't feel that means it is currently the best, maybe at it's time period, yes, but as of now it's not. In my humble opinion, of course.

[Totoro Man]

heh, "Akira" is one of those films where it sorta grows on you. my first reaction was to a HORRENDOUSLY cut-down and re-edited version on the Sci-Fi network. although you'd think that nowadays that the Sci Fi network could show an uncensored "Akira". or have a special Cartoon Network event with it on... cuz I'm getting really, REALLY fed-up with those Goosebumps marathons on the friggin Cartoon Network!

<sigh> back on topic.

my first reaction to the butchred Akira was literally "WTF just happened?"

I saw it in high school... and then later again in college. I was underwhelmed, but I found it more enjoyable. I then started collecting the manga, which is about 4 times longer than the film--cuz I figured "there were some really interesting ideas... maybe they actually get developed in the manga"

and they do. it rules. "Akira" and "Nausicaa: of the Valley of Wind" are two landmark manga that deserve all the praise they get.

"Akira" is kinda like a Japanese "2001" for me. it shows you what can (and has) been done. there are things that don't work in both films... but neither of them can be accused of lack of ambition or thoughtfulness. they just tackle the same subject from opposite extremes.

for the record, I don't like "2001" and I have mixed feelings towards "Akira" but I have to give them both credit for being ambitious, risk-taking pieces of cinema that were not exactly "loved" by the critics or movie-goers at the time. oh yeah, and they both have something interesting to say about the human condition.

since it was the first anime I ever saw, I guess it's "number one" in that regard.

[jesse_custer]

Of course, that's pure opinion really. There is no arguing Akira was more important, but I personally don't feel that means it is currently the best, maybe at it's time period, yes, but as of now it's not. In my humble opinion, of course.

I agree. That's why its importance and influence combined with its high quality in technical categories make Akira a hard candidate to beat in my mind.

[Ramiel]

I agree. That's why its importance and influence combined with its high quality in technical categories make Akira a hard candidate to beat in my mind.

Yeah, in the end what is or isn't the best is opinion of the viewer. If we want to talk on just pure technical stances, I could probably give that Akira if we're talking about anime film.

[Joe Bullseye]

I have watched quite a few of the films mentioned in this thread and still need to see a few of them. It could be said that there might be better and I just haven't seen them. I am more a comic book reader then a Anime viewer so there is alot out there yet to experience. The Akira Manga is some of the best comic book reading I have ever come across.

[Quilt]

The only anime films I would take over Akira would be Spirited Away or Ninja Scroll. But even then, one could still argue that Akira is more important to anime filmmaking.

You'd consider Ninja Scroll in those ranks? Don't get me wrong, it's one of the most super-duper cool animes I've seen, but the rather low-brow simplistic plot lowers it a bit in my eyes. Perhaps a bit snobby on my part.

Then again, the animation is top-notch and the variety in character models is fantastic fun. I mean, who thinks of a character with a BEE HIVE on his back? That's just awesome wrapped up in RADICAL!

[Joe Bullseye]

I would also like to add, if Akira had never been made, the world of anime would not be what it is today. Alot of films have been influences by Otomo's work. Does anybody agree that some of the new films over the years would have been different if not influence by the great Akira?

[Ramiel]

I would also like to add, if Akira had never been made, the world of anime would not be what it is today. Alot of films have been influences by Otomo's work. Does anybody agree that some of the new films over the years would have been different if not influence by the great Akira?

I can agree with that, anime film probably wouldn't be what it is today without Akira. I kind of see it in the same way current anime television would be pretty different if Evangelion hadn't been released.

[Quilt]

I would also like to add, if Akira had never been made, the world of anime would not be what it is today. Alot of films have been influences by Otomo's work. Does anybody agree that some of the new films over the years would have been different if not influence by the great Akira?

The same could be said about a lot of films, comics, books, etc. etc. etc. What would the world have been like if my Uncle Dave had actually pursued his education instead of having an emotional break-down and becoming a useless part of society? Would his ridiculous mathematical and memory skills have contributed to some amazing new stream of science which we may never now know of? Doesn't matter, because he IS a bum now. There's no going back.

And odds are somebody else would have done what Otomo did anyways. It just wouldn't have been exactly the same. Don't forget that Otomo wasn't the only guy working with cyber-punk type material at the time. He was just kind of the first to do it all really, really well. Not to downplay Otomo's works at all. I'm just saying there's little point in discussing what ifs.

[jesse_custer]

Without a doubt, "Spriggan" WOULD NOT be here without "Akira."

[Joe Bullseye]

Without a doubt, "Spriggan" WOULD NOT be here without "Akira."

DAM STRAIGHT! NOW THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKIN 'BOUT! :D

[Quilt]

Am I noob for never having heard of Spriggan before? Give me a run-down of what it's about.

[Joe Bullseye]

Am I noob for never having heard of Spriggan before? Give me a run-down of what it's about.

I cut and paste this answer cause it would take me to long to type it myself. Let me add it is definitly something to rent when you get the chance.

Yu is a young man who has a past he desperately wants to forget. His present is that he is a superhuman top agent for Arcan, an organization dedicated to protecting ancient artifacts to prevent them from falling into the wrong hands. However, he receives several bloody messages, culminating in the suicide of a friend, telling that Noah would be his death. In response, Yu travels to Turkey to visit the Arcan dig at Mount Arrat, where Noah's Ark is supposed to have rested. Along the way there and at the destination, he learns of forces of his past have returned to stop him and sieze control of the Ark, which turns out to be an alien device of ultimate power.

[jesse_custer]

First of all, let's establish that "Spriggan" has almost no character development and a very silly story. But it doesn't matter. The animation and action sequences are some of the most fluid you will ever see in anime.

[Quilt]

First of all, let's establish that "Spriggan" has almost no character development and a very silly story. But it doesn't matter. The animation and action sequences are some of the most fluid you will ever see in anime.

No qualms with that. I'll check it out when the opportunity arises. :D