Killing Off The Black Guy

[90'sCartoonMan]

It's a cliche I never really thought much about. You want to add diversity to the cast, throw in a black guy here or there. No harm in that, right? But then, you want to increase the danger, so you kill off one of the less important characters, and the black guy bites it.

Seriously, what's up with that? I used to make jokes about it, and it was especially funny when they did it in Fantastic Four 2, but now it's starting to bother me (probably because I just saw it happen no less than twice in TV shows over this past week).

Anyone know where it started, how it caught on, and who deserves to be kicked in the nuts because of it? What's everyone's opinion/reaction to this? Got any interesting examples of it in any type of media?

[Ric Flair]

It's a fun thing I guess.

[Scorpion13]

It's a cliche I never really thought much about. You want to add diversity to the cast, throw in a black guy here or there. No harm in that, right? But then, you want to increase the danger, so you kill off one of the less important characters, and the black guy bites it.

Seriously, what's up with that? I used to make jokes about it, and it was especially funny when they did it in Fantastic Four 2, but now it's starting to bother me (probably because I just saw it happen no less than twice in TV shows over this past week).

Anyone know where it started, how it caught on, and who deserves to be kicked in the nuts because of it? What's everyone's opinion/reaction to this? Got any interesting examples of it in any type of media?


Any examples? Oh yeah, just about every horror, sci-fi and action movie in the past 50 or so years with a black guy in it.

You know how they talk about how original NOTLD was because the black character survived to the end? Yeah, well that was 40 years ago. Its still happening. (exept in Romero's Dead Trilogy youll notice, but then those movies were always more than a few cuts above the rest of it all)

Whose fault is it? Well, the hacky hollywood screen writers for one, and then the terrible producers, too.

Is it intentionally racist? I dont think so (I could be wrong), I just think its another tired cliche thats still albatrossing about hollywood.

[Ric Flair]

Yeah it's been going on forever, it's pretty lame.

[The Batman]

I think it's more a function of the black guy not being the hero, the lead, or anything really important to the plot other than "the black guy" and therefore being the most expendable.

[Tobias March]

When did it start? Um.....D. W. Griffith?

[Scorpion13]

When did it start? Um.....D. W. Griffith?


Oh lord. Nice.

Actually, you might be more right than you think.

[GRANT!]

I think comes from the fact the black guy is usually the likable supporting character. And that's the easiest person to kill. If the black character was the lead and the likable supporting character was white most likely that supporting character will die.

So it's not like they are trying to kill the black guy because he's black. It's because he's a minor character. But at the same time the thinking is still a white lead is preferable to a black lead (aside from Will Smith and Denzel Washington).

[xnef1025]

I call shenanigans on counting NOTLD as an exception. Technically, no one lives. The original Dawn of the Dead is a good example though.

Were the two examples this week Heroes and Bionic Woman? I really feel bad for Leonard Roberts(DL). That's two genre shows where he's been the KOBG. Maybe there should be a list of movies where it doesn't happen.

Dawn of the Dead, Anaconda, Deep Blue Sea, House on Haunted Hill(remake).

That's all I got right now.

[Tobias March]

Event Horizon....although we thought he'd died.

[GrampaGen]

I call shenanigans on counting NOTLD as an exception. Technically, no one lives. The original Dawn of the Dead is a good example though.

Were the two examples this week Heroes and Bionic Woman? I really feel bad for Leonard Roberts(DL). That's two genre shows where he's been the KOBG. Maybe there should be a list of movies where it doesn't happen.

Dawn of the Dead, Anaconda, Deep Blue Sea, House on Haunted Hill(remake).

That's all I got right now.

Ghostbusters. Winston is also the most down to earth member of the cast.

[meethraa]

On Pulp Fiction, is the white "lead" that bites it... even Marcellus survives, so there's an example.

EDIT: Oh, wait, Samurai Jack gets his head blown off. Nevermind then.

[marshal99]

This kind of black dude bites it stereotype hasn't been in place for how long now ? When is it relevant today ?! Show me some examples ?! THis is a stereotype of a stereotype. :confused:

In Independence day , the black dude saves the day.

In Halloween : resurrection , the black dude kungfu kick Michael Myers (that was just crap)

[StoneGold]

On Pulp Fiction, is the white "lead" that bites it... even Marcellus survives, so there's an example.

EDIT: Oh, wait, Samurai Jack gets his head blown off. Nevermind then.

Yeah, but enough people died in that movie in general that at some point, a black guy was going to get it.

Didn't LL Cool J survive that shark movie? Obviously Sam Jackson bought it in that one, but I don't think it's so much about no black people dying as a black guy making it to the end.

[GRANT!]

Didn't LL Cool J survive that shark movie? Obviously Sam Jackson bought it in that one, but I don't think it's so much about no black people dying as a black guy making it to the end.

Also wasn't the only reason Jackson did that movie because he thought it'd be funny if he got eaten by shark. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMwmqp3GLMc)

[Chiasm]

In the Matrix trilogy the only one of the three main character who definitely survived was the black one - Morpheus. I mean seriously, betting money had to be on Trinity being the survivor and if you thought Neo was going to die then you probably would have bet if you had thought about it that Trinity would end up being pregnant with his kid.

[Wenatchee the Hatchet]

Yep, it's a cliche. As soon as I heard Jazz in Transformers my brother and I knew he was going to bite it by the end of the movie. Sure enough ... .

[GRANT!]

Yep, it's a cliche. As soon as I heard Jazz in Transformers my brother and I knew he was going to bite it by the end of the movie. Sure enough ... .

I think the reasoning was that Jazz after Optimus and Bumblebee was the most likable Transformer. Honestly if I was going by that logic I would have killed Ironhide. He seemed to show the most character of the three minor Autobots. And he was the one protecting Sam when he was doing his initial run with the cube.

[Wenatchee the Hatchet]

Yeah, ditto, on that logic, Grant. Ironhide could have been taken out because he had more character development up to that point (as in, I have no recollection what Jazz did except get ripped in half by Megatron and I vaguely remember Ironhide but they probably decided not to kill him off because he's the weapons specialist).

But Ironhide dying or at least getting shredded would have made a little more sense in that it would give us a reason why all the Autobots seemed to start freaking out when Ironhide said "It's Starscream". For that matter, it might have helped it make more sense that as freaked as they are by Starscream they're more scared of Megatron ... but I digress.

[Patient Boy]

Also wasn't the only reason Jackson did that movie because he thought it'd be funny if he got eaten by shark. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMwmqp3GLMc)

They ate me in that one son! A f***ing shark ate me!

[BYC]

In the Matrix trilogy the only one of the three main character who definitely survived was the black one - Morpheus. I mean seriously, betting money had to be on Trinity being the survivor and if you thought Neo was going to die then you probably would have bet if you had thought about it that Trinity would end up being pregnant with his kid.

I was pretty sure Morpheus was gonna die in one of the 3. Not because he was black, but because he was the mentor.

[GRANT!]

Yeah, ditto, on that logic, Grant. Ironhide could have been taken out because he had more character development up to that point (as in, I have no recollection what Jazz did except get ripped in half by Megatron and I vaguely remember Ironhide but they probably decided not to kill him off because he's the weapons specialist).

Jazz break dance and talked gangsta. But yeah he seemed to be the least developed. Even Ratchet had a few moments. But out of the three I say Ironhide was the one who made the most impact. He had the best lines, he demonstrated his bad assness by protecting Sam and that awesome flip he did.

But I'm glad he survived. He was my favorite robot in the movie (apparently he was one of the most popular ones because I just sold his toy on ebay for 50 bucks. Out of the box). Hopefully they do more with him in the sequel it also looks like he went home with one of the soldiers (or gave him a lift home).


But Ironhide dying or at least getting shredded would have made a little more sense in that it would give us a reason why all the Autobots seemed to start freaking out when Ironhide said "It's Starscream". For that matter, it might have helped it make more sense that as freaked as they are by Starscream they're more scared of Megatron ... but I digress.

They were freaking out because everyone thought it was one of the governments jets before they Autobots recognized it was Starscream.

Kiling an Autobot kind of justified making Megatron a badass though they could have done it in a better shot. They should have better developed Jazz or had him kill Ironhide.

[Tobias March]

This kind of black dude bites it stereotype hasn't been in place for how long now ? When is it relevant today ?! Show me some examples ?! THis is a stereotype of a stereotype. :confused:

In Independence day , the black dude saves the day.

In Halloween : resurrection , the black dude kungfu kick Michael Myers (that was just crap)

Didn't someone already mention FF 2. It was a bit silly that, seeing as the character pretty much was Ultimate Nick Fury, but more of a jerk. Cos he was going to die soon.

Although ironically I will actually be pissed if Will Smith doesn't die in I Am Legend. Stop messing with my adolescence Akiva!!

[lonewolf23k]

Also wasn't the only reason Jackson did that movie because he thought it'd be funny if he got eaten by shark. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMwmqp3GLMc)

On the other hand, that was a brilliant subversion of the "let's get our act together" speech cliche, so it's forgivable.

[DLFerguson]

That's one reason I liked SNAKES ON A PLANE. Only genre movie I've ever seen where all the brothers survived to the end.

[Shellhead]

Just to set the record straight about the Romero zombie movies, the black guy gets killed in Night of the Living Dead, but not in the original Dawn of the Dead. Sometimes people get confused, because the same actor played both characters.

[Tobias March]

Just to set the record straight about the Romero zombie movies, the black guy gets killed in Night of the Living Dead, but not in the original Dawn of the Dead. Sometimes people get confused, because the same actor played both characters.

What? No he didn't. Duane Jones (http://imdb.com/name/nm0427977/) was in Night. Ken Foree (http://imdb.com/name/nm0286010/) was in Dawn.

[Scorpion13]

Just to set the record straight about the Romero zombie movies, the black guy gets killed in Night of the Living Dead, but not in the original Dawn of the Dead. Sometimes people get confused, because the same actor played both characters.

The fuck are you talking about, Shellhead? The same actor most certainly did not play both characters. Good lord.

And I stand by the NOTLD declaration. He was the only house member to survive to the end. Sure, he gets killed then, too, but all the white people die long before he does.

[Alex Dragon]

Interesting theories but I think the real answer is simple.

In most movies/shows blacks and minorities end up getting bit parts. Those bit parts usually aren't written for a specific race so those are the ones minorities end up with more often or not. I really don't think there's a whole lot of scripts specifying that a black person gets killed first. That's just the roles the black and minorities mostly in up with in many cases.

Of the bit parts in a movie I think it's cooler and more impactful to play someone who gets killed than a bit part that hangs around in the background and doesn't do much or gets much screen time.

[90'sCartoonMan]

What I'd really like to see is some kind of score card. I'm not even that big on horror movies, but I'd like to see the ratio of black characters that are killed off vs. characters of any other race. And I'd like to see it done by year since I'm wondering if it has gotten any better and when it was at its worst. I wonder if it also depends on the genre.

Is it intentionally racist? I dont think so (I could be wrong), I just think its another tired cliche thats still albatrossing about hollywood.

I think the only thing that's close to racism is the idea that the default setting for a main character is Caucasian. As a result, the non-white characters get smaller parts, and are expendable.

I think comes from the fact the black guy is usually the likable supporting character. And that's the easiest person to kill. If the black character was the lead and the likable supporting character was white most likely that supporting character will die.

I take some solace in the fact that the stereotype is that he's a likable supporting character rather than the jerk that gets what's coming to him.

Were the two examples this week Heroes and Bionic Woman? I really feel bad for Leonard Roberts(DL). That's two genre shows where he's been the KOBG. Maybe there should be a list of movies where it doesn't happen.

Yep. We knew DL was dead on Heroes, but I wasn't expecting what happened on Bionic Woman, and having them air in the same week got me thinking. I assume the other Leonard Roberts part you're talking about is Buffy The Vampire Slayer?

In most movies/shows blacks and minorities end up getting bit parts. Those bit parts usually aren't written for a specific race so those are the ones minorities end up with more often or not. I really don't think there's a whole lot of scripts specifying that a black person gets killed first. That's just the roles the black and minorities mostly in up with in many cases.

I'd hope there aren't scripts whose goal is to kill off the black guy early on in the planning stages. I wonder is this has every happened while making a film. Someone takes a look at it and goes "Hey, this guy who gets killed in the first 15 minutes is being portrayed by a black actor...let's avoid doing that."

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

actually we just finished talking about this in the Supernatural thread.every black male character that was introduced has been knocked off.



In most movies/shows blacks and minorities end up getting bit parts. .which is a whole other can of worms in itself.

[The Batman]

Yup, and that's where the racism comes into play. It's not racism that kills them first, at least not directly, it's racism that keeps minorities in the inconsequential bit parts that are expendible and therefore killed off first.

[OverMaster]

Well, Lando Calrissian was going to die in Return of the Jedi, but then Lucas was reminded of the black guy cliche and decided to avoid it.

[ultramandingo]

........makes you yern for the good ole days of " blacksplotation " when the black guy was getting killed by the other black guy

[The Batman]

^^^

Don't worry, that still happens.

[xnef1025]

^^^

Don't worry, that still happens.
Yup, good black guy gets killed by evil black guy and then heroic white guy avenges him at or near the end of the movie.

[Sandoz]

And I stand by the NOTLD declaration. He was the only house member to survive to the end. Sure, he gets killed then, too, but all the white people die long before he does.
Yeah. Part of the "black guy dies" cliche is that the black character is usually the first to die. So in the case of NOTLD, Ben surviving till the very end and outliving the Young Couple and the Cute Kid is pretty extraordinary.

As for Dawn... Originally Romero was going to go for another "kill 'em all" ending, but relented. So instead we got that kick ass ending where Peter punches zombies in the face as he makes his escape.

[superion]

Neither death surprised me. We know D.L. died on Heroes at the beginning of the year and Isiah Washington was only signed for a limited number of episodes of Bionic Women so you know he had a great chance of being knocked off same with Katie Sackoff character.

[Quilt]

Here's something to think about: the vast majority of the examples that have been given were crappy movies anyway....

Mind you, Morgan Freeman was the only black character in Unforgiven...

[kalorama]

Yup, and that's where the racism comes into play. It's not racism that kills them first, at least not directly, it's racism that keeps minorities in the inconsequential bit parts that are expendable and therefore killed off first.

One could argue that instead of it being racism (at least on Hollywood's part) that's a function of the economic reality of the film business, i.e., the fact that, by and large (with the exception of those few actors who climb to the top of the A list), films with minority leads are less likely to pull in big big office.

[hugh45]

Did it start w/Jim Brown getting iced in Kelly's Heroes or Dirty Dz.?

[IamtheRock3]

I think the WORST example was jurasic part

not Samuel Death....(where they sent the black guy out in the raptor infested area to fix the electronics)


No talking about BEFOR the credits

There were a bunch of guys trying to lock up a raptor. ONE black guy in the bunch. None of these guys had name part. Guess who the raptor eat first

[StoneGold]

Did it start w/Jim Brown getting iced in Kelly's Heroes or Dirty Dz.?

Brown wasn't in Kelly's Heroes. And he was one of the last to die in Dirty Dozen. The only one of the Dozen who didn't die was Chuck Bronson. And his not dying wasn't made out to be anything particularly special.

[Shellhead]

The fuck are you talking about, Shellhead? The same actor most certainly did not play both characters. Good lord.

And I stand by the NOTLD declaration. He was the only house member to survive to the end. Sure, he gets killed then, too, but all the white people die long before he does.

Sorry kids, no need to start shouting, it's been a long time since I saw either movie. Still, that statement about what happened to Peter in Dawn of the Dead earlier in this thread was inaccurately cited as example of this thread's topic.

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

One could argue that instead of it being racism (at least on Hollywood's part) that's a function of the economic reality of the film business, i.e., the fact that, by and large (with the exception of those few actors who climb to the top of the A list), films with minority leads are less likely to pull in big big office.yeah cause the public at large is racist :p :rolleyes:

[kalorama]

yeah cause the public at large is racist :p :rolleyes:

(A) That was hardly my point (nice conclusion jump there), (B) you presented nothing that disputes my actual point about the box office economics of minority led films (which is pretty easily supported by the available box office numbers), and (C) even though it wasn't my actual point the fact remains that, given the reality of race in America, the question of whether racial attitudes effect filmgoing habits isn't one that can be so casually dismissed with a roll of the eyes.

[The Batman]

No you've actually brought up a very interesting, very valid point about the this lack of minority leads. If it is a function of Hollywood economic realities, minority films doing shit at the box office, then what is behind that reality?

Why don't minority led films make money?

Is it simply a matter of racism? Not the foaming at the mouth hatred kind but the kind that treats visible minorities as different and exotic and unrelatable?

[ultramandingo]

Yup, good black guy gets killed by evil black guy and then heroic white guy avenges him at or near the end of the movie.

........xept back then Coffy , Superfly , Truck Turner , Black Belt Jones , Foxy Brown , Shaft , Cleopatra Jones , Dolemite , the Hammer , Sweetback or Blacula did the avenging - usually on " the man "

[MarvelKnight]

Well, Lando Calrissian was going to die in Return of the Jedi, but then Lucas was reminded of the black guy cliche and decided to avoid it.

However, that one black X-Wing pilot was killed.

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

and (C) even though it wasn't my actual point the fact remains that, given the reality of race in America, the question of whether racial attitudes effect filmgoing habits isn't one that can be so casually dismissed with a roll of the eyes.actually i wasn't dismissing it lol

[Kage Kisaragi]

It's a fun thing I guess.

Sure if your from Alabama.

[blackdragon6]

Sure if your from Alabama.or mississipi

[titanfan]

In most movies/shows blacks and minorities end up getting bit parts. Those bit parts usually aren't written for a specific race so those are the ones minorities end up with more often or not. I really don't think there's a whole lot of scripts specifying that a black person gets killed first. That's just the roles the black and minorities mostly in up with in many cases.

Yup, that's exactly it.

I think more than "Killing off the Black Guy", in horror films, it's more of a death sentence to be the chubby one or the average looking one. If there's a serial killer stalking your friends and you are the least attractive one in your circle of friends--you're toast.

[The Batman]

Alot of hot chicks in showers, or lakes, or wherever hot chicks get wet and naked get offed in horror movies too though.

So it's not just the chubby ones that have to look out, it's the hot wet naked ones too.

[Kage Kisaragi]

^ Exception here is that Kenkay from Nightmare of Elm Street 3: Dream Warriors survived, and he was unattractive and kind of chubby.

[mattx110]

Alot of hot chicks in showers, or lakes, or wherever hot chicks get wet and naked get offed in horror movies too though.

So it's not just the chubby ones that have to look out, it's the hot wet naked ones too.

Every time a movie about a serial killer is on and someone gets in a shower, it's sad. Because, well, y'know. One second it's all hot and pretty, and then there's blood, and it's just weird when Ma walks in the room just that second. I'm really trying to be tactful and true to my pure non-perverted roots here, so if I'm too subtle with the joke, I'm sorry.

[Alex Dragon]

which is a whole other can of worms in itself.

Not as big a can of worms as some may make it out to be. Keep in mind that black people are a "minority". Which means of course that there probably aren't nearly as much of them trying out for various roles as whites. I think it's a numbers game more than anything. You gotta figure that like the a big portion of the non-minorities trying out for the role some just aren't right or good enough for the part. When you figure in that the black or minority starts off in much smaller numbers it kinda makes sense that we don't see a whole lot of blacks or Asian or Latinos in those parts. Sure there may be lots of blacks in Hollywood trying out for roles but it's dwarfed by the amount of whites doing the same thing.

[Monty_Cristo]

Yeah, but enough people died in that movie in general that at some point, a black guy was going to get it.

Didn't LL Cool J survive that shark movie? Obviously Sam Jackson bought it in that one, but I don't think it's so much about no black people dying as a black guy making it to the end.

LL Cool J has it in his contract that he doesn't die because of the stereotype. he's discussed it before, in interviews. a lot of the other rappers-to-movie stars have imitated him (Busta Rhymes for ex.).

---
there was a blatant example of this trend in the movie 'Leviathan.' horrible movie but i'd recommend it just for the last scene. Ernie Hudson's entire role amounted to diving back into the water to save some white girl from a sea monster while the "hero" watched from the sides. what happens? monster eats Ernie. girl swims to safety and into the "hero's" arms. they don't waste one minute mourning (or even mentioning) the black guy. they are actually shown celebrating, afterwards. it was the first time i noticed the trend and it pissed me off.

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

Not as big a can of worms as some may make it out to be. Keep in mind that black people are a "minority". Which means of course that there probably aren't nearly as much of them trying out for various roles as whites. I think it's a numbers game more than anything. You gotta figure that like the a big portion of the non-minorities trying out for the role some just aren't right or good enough for the part. When you figure in that the black or minority starts off in much smaller numbers it kinda makes sense that we don't see a whole lot of blacks or Asian or Latinos in those parts. Sure there may be lots of blacks in Hollywood trying out for roles but it's dwarfed by the amount of whites doing the same thing.i still stand by my position,as this doesn't explain the lack of black movies when clearly they can be just as successful as monochromatic casted movies.

[Monty_Cristo]

i still stand by my position,as this doesn't explain the lack of black movies when clearly they can be just as successful as monochromatic casted movies.

Tales from the Hood was a lot of fun and had a predominantly black cast. i wish they had made a sequel w/ a similar budget.

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

Tales from the Hood was a lot of fun and had a predominantly black cast. i wish they had made a sequel w/ a similar budget.

oh hell yeah!!! lol :D

[Black Atom]

i still stand by my position,as this doesn't explain the lack of black movies when clearly they can be just as successful as monochromatic casted movies.

Are we talking about black movies, as in movies with predominantly black casts or movies that have black people in them? I don't think what you said is true about the first kind.

[Tobias March]

Are we talking about black movies, as in movies with predominantly black casts or movies that have black people in them? I don't think what you said is true about the first kind.

I mean if the killing of black characters is to be justified by base economics - what about Tyler Perry's success? The man is immune to criticism, rakes in cash...

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

Are we talking about black movies, as in movies with predominantly black casts or movies that have black people in them? I don't think what you said is true about the first kind.
i been through this with you on several occasions,you have your view and i have mines.......so c'est la vie.

[Black Atom]

I mean if the killing of black characters is to be justified by base economics - what about Tyler Perry's success? The man is immune to criticism, rakes in cash...

No one's justifying that. At least, I'm not. But I agree about Tyler Perry. Those movies seem to be exceptional, though.

i been through this with you on several occasions,you have your view and i have mines.......so c'est la vie.

I wasn't trying to start a fight. I honestly don't remember discussing that with you.

[Tobias March]

No one's justifying that. At least, I'm not. But I agree about Tyler Perry. Those movies seem to be exceptional, though.



I wasn't trying to start a fight. I honestly don't remember discussing that with you.

Apologies sir, that rationale was raised earlier in the thread. I was commenting on it, as well as trying to follow on from yourself.

[pitbull in a skirt]

That, and, the helpless maiden damsel in distress screamer. Boy do I hate those. Not as bad as it was in the 1950s cinema, of course...

Reminds me of the spoof when Ola Ray screams the entire time while MJ turns into the werewolf, and then decides to run away until the transformation is done. Despite the fact that he said, GO AWAAAAY!

ahhhhhhhh [trembles]

http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/050929/153819__jackson_l.jpg

This kind of black dude bites it stereotype hasn't been in place for how long now ? When is it relevant today ?! Show me some examples ?! THis is a stereotype of a stereotype. :confused:

In Independence day , the black dude saves the day.

In Halloween : resurrection , the black dude kungfu kick Michael Myers (that was just crap)

The fact that you can list the instances where the stereotype doesn't exists just proves the point.

[Motormouse]

When did it start? Um.....D. W. Griffith?

Birth of A Nation aside, i think the killing of the poor soul brother started in ernest in the Jonny Weismuller tarzan films. I lost count of how many porters and natives were strapped to palms trees, and ripped in halfm, and just when the first white victim was about to bite the dust, in swings Tarzan to save the day. To me it seems that if you're black in a movie and you're not playing the lead, then you better pray that Bruce Willis is in the movie, because for some reason, in Bruces films, the Black dude rarely gets it in the back of the head, even the bad ones.

[JDogindy]

Yeah it's been going on forever, it's pretty lame.

Whenever there is a movie in which there are going to be fatalities, I expect that the first person to die didn't matter to the plot.

[Monty_Cristo]

That, and, the helpless maiden damsel in distress screamer. Boy do I hate those. Not as bad as it was in the 1950s cinema, of course...

Reminds me of the spoof when Ola Ray screams the entire time while MJ turns into the werewolf, and then decides to run away until the transformation is done. Despite the fact that he said, [B]GO AWAAAAY!


it happened in the original Howling movie, as well. i would just love it if they actually showed an intended-victim dash off as soon as the werewolf begins to transform. it always takes a minute or so (& is usually painful enough that the werewolf can't run after you). that's a free headstart, imo.

[ultramandingo]

.........way off topic but
"Why Is It That My Girlfriend Insists On Sticking Around While
I Transform Into A Werewolf?"
http://www.theonion.com/content/opinion/why_is_it_that_my_girlfriend

[Monty_Cristo]

.........way off topic but
"Why Is It That My Girlfriend Insists On Sticking Around While
I Transform Into A Werewolf?"
http://www.theonion.com/content/opinion/why_is_it_that_my_girlfriend

LOL! i would dump her.

[Deep_Sleeper]

It's a cliche I never really thought much about. You want to add diversity to the cast, throw in a black guy here or there. No harm in that, right? But then, you want to increase the danger, so you kill off one of the less important characters, and the black guy bites it.

Seriously, what's up with that? I used to make jokes about it, and it was especially funny when they did it in Fantastic Four 2, but now it's starting to bother me (probably because I just saw it happen no less than twice in TV shows over this past week).

Anyone know where it started, how it caught on, and who deserves to be kicked in the nuts because of it? What's everyone's opinion/reaction to this? Got any interesting examples of it in any type of media?

You gotta love Deep Blue Sea! They follow and buck the trend.

[Nikita]

I'm tired of this too. And it's not just black male characters that get killed off. Black female characters bite it too all the time.


So tired of seeing the pretty white people as the only survivors all the time.


I just watched Pitch Black again, and the black actor made it to the end, but then he gets killed off in Chronicles of Riddick! Grrr.

[GozertheGozarian]

I'm tired of this too. And it's not just black male characters that get killed off. Black female characters bite it too all the time.


So tired of seeing the pretty white people as the only survivors all the time.


I just watched Pitch Black again, and the black actor made it to the end, but then he gets killed off in Chronicles of Riddick! Grrr.
At least being dead means not being in any more crappy sequels.

[Totoro Man]

Any examples? Oh yeah, just about every horror, sci-fi and action movie in the past 50 or so years with a black guy in it.

You know how they talk about how original NOTLD was because the black character survived to the end? Yeah, well that was 40 years ago. Its still happening. (exept in Romero's Dead Trilogy youll notice, but then those movies were always more than a few cuts above the rest of it all)

Whose fault is it? Well, the hacky hollywood screen writers for one, and then the terrible producers, too.

Is it intentionally racist? I dont think so (I could be wrong), I just think its another tired cliche thats still albatrossing about hollywood.


hahahah, oh yeah... but in the original "Night of the Living Dead" it was very obviously racist. it was so intentional. let me rephrase that. I don't think it was a 'racist' move--it was just so clear to me, the first time I saw that film, that if he'd been a white survivor they probably wouldn't have shot him dead on sight. the first NotLD was awesome! weirdly enough, it was a church pastor that was telling me how magnificent that movie was when it came out. :eek:

[bluedmighty]

Well, its kinda like we should be greatful for the screen time "they" give us.

That said, I was FURIOUS over the D.L. death in Heroes, and had heard nothing about Mr. Washington's character.

I believe that it has everything to do with a target audiance and the subconcious mind.

There is nothing wrong with a character being killed.
There is nothing wrong with a Black character getting killed.

However, I think it's naive to think that people aren't (at best ) playing favorites, and (at worst) sucombing to something subconcious. Does art imitate life? Or, does life imitate art?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edt2BvFvwdg

PLEASE WATCH this as it is an interesting look into WHY D.L. was killed the way he was killed in Heroes.

Incidentily, The other anticipated death for this season was "retconned" at the end of the same epi. it happened in, when HRG sat up in some strange place "Healed by the blood" hmmmmmmmmm ;) :rolleyes:

I've gotten to the point (now) where I see between the lines.

I am also curious as to why we haven't had anymore "Shaft" type shows.

Deep Space 9 was the last sci-fi-action/adventure show I remember that aired in prime time with a black lead. Captain of a space station
(not a voyage). Dies in the end to "save the day". In the same series we FINALLY get a Black love intrest (Sysco dated but was never a "sex symbol") in Warf (Klingon, I know, but back then it was as close as we got) and Dax.

They later kill Dax, bring her back, and then marry her to the Dr. hmmmmmmm ;)

Mantis was another short lived program that I think could have done
AT LEAST as well as Xena, Hercules, Cleopatra 20whatever if given the chance. Hollywood also changed the cast in favor of a more "Universally acceptible" cast.


NY Undercover LIGHTYEARS better than NYPD Blue. only to be sabatogged by the network and writters.

[nervmeister]

Anyone see last night's episode of Family Guy? The black guy got offed in it too.

[bluedmighty]

Anyone see last night's episode of Family Guy? The black guy got offed in it too.

Was it a gag or is the character realy gone?

I didn't like him much anyway, as I thought he was the least funny member of the "crew".

There was something about his voice and demenor that irked me.

[Black Atom]

Was it a gag or is the character realy gone?

I didn't like him much anyway, as I thought he was the least funny member of the "crew".

There was something about his voice and demenor that irked me.

Maybe the fact that he was black?

[Scorpion13]

hahahah, oh yeah... but in the original "Night of the Living Dead" it was very obviously racist. it was so intentional. let me rephrase that. I don't think it was a 'racist' move--it was just so clear to me, the first time I saw that film, that if he'd been a white survivor they probably wouldn't have shot him dead on sight. the first NotLD was awesome! weirdly enough, it was a church pastor that was telling me how magnificent that movie was when it came out. :eek:

Well that certainly is insane.

One of the few decent horror movies to have a black main character outlive the white cast, and somehow you think its racist.

You do know that Romero has said, up and down, for 40 or so years that the part was supposed to be a white guy. I dont really think he's lying either.

And lets point out that not only do the black main characters in the subsequent Dead movies live (Dawn and Day), the rest of the white cast in NOTLD were murdered horribly.

If you think the ending of Night had anything to do with the character's race, you are grossly missing the point.

[BoosterBronze]

I just watched an old episode of Smallville. There was a magic flower that made people act out their deepest feelings.

Pete, Superboy's black pal, acted out his rage at being ignored and pushed aside by the girl he liked, and by Clark Kent.

At the end of the episode they showed what happened to the girl and to Clark's dad and how they felt about it, both of whom also had the magic flower infect them. No mention was made of what happened to Peter, if he lived or died, or how he felt about it, or if anyone cared.

[Scorpion13]

I just watched an old episode of Smallville. There was a magic flower that made people act out their deepest feelings.

Pete, Superboy's black pal, acted out his rage at being ignored and pushed aside by the girl he liked, and by Clark Kent.

At the end of the episode they showed what happened to the girl and to Clark's dad and how they felt about it, both of whom also had the magic flower infect them. No mention was made of what happened to Peter, if he lived or died, or how he felt about it, or if anyone cared.

Glorious.

Part of the plot is about how enraged he is about being ignored, and then the show promptly ignores him.

Good stuff.

[Jared]

Deep Space 9 was the last sci-fi-action/adventure show I remember that aired in prime time with a black lead. Captain of a space station
(not a voyage). Dies in the end to "save the day". In the same series we FINALLY get a Black love intrest (Sysco dated but was never a "sex symbol") in Warf (Klingon, I know, but back then it was as close as we got) and Dax.


In fairness, Dr. Bashir was the original (wannabe) love interest for Dax. And though he got her in the end, I feel kinda sorry for him, in that Worf still tapped Ezri first. One must a assume a night of Klingon sex will leave a girl ruined.

BTW, Bashir isn't cacausian, is he? I know the actor is Muslim, but his ethnicity is kinda tricky, I guess the accent throws it off.

I don't think Totoro is saying that NOTLD was racist movie. He means that racism was deliberately played upon for the end of the movie. Which I agree with, I always assumed that was the point: if he'd been white, he wouldn't have gotten shot.

[maczero]

I just watched an old episode of Smallville. There was a magic flower that made people act out their deepest feelings.

Pete, Superboy's black pal, acted out his rage at being ignored and pushed aside by the girl he liked, and by Clark Kent.

At the end of the episode they showed what happened to the girl and to Clark's dad and how they felt about it, both of whom also had the magic flower infect them. No mention was made of what happened to Peter, if he lived or died, or how he felt about it, or if anyone cared.Ahhh Pete, if there were ever a clear example of a token it was that guy. They gave him about 3 lines per ep and some pretty boring storylines. What's even worse is that writers seemed to love sticking Pete in stereotypical situations. I remember one ep they had him yelling back at a movie theater screen as if the characters can hear him saying "don't go in that room".

[Super Hero Guy]

And then they wrote him off altogether...at least he didn't die.

[Monty_Cristo]

Ahhh Pete, if there were ever a clear example of a token it was that guy. They gave him about 3 lines per ep and some pretty boring storylines. What's even worse is that writers seemed to love sticking Pete in stereotypical situations. I remember one ep they had him yelling back at a movie theater screen as if the characters can hear him saying "don't go in that room".

yeah, but he lasted longer than a white Pete would have. that kid would have been boring as hell.

[C. Earl]

hahahah, oh yeah... but in the original "Night of the Living Dead" it was very obviously racist. it was so intentional. let me rephrase that. I don't think it was a 'racist' move--it was just so clear to me, the first time I saw that film, that if he'd been a white survivor they probably wouldn't have shot him dead on sight. the first NotLD was awesome! weirdly enough, it was a church pastor that was telling me how magnificent that movie was when it came out. :eek:
Well that certainly is insane.

One of the few decent horror movies to have a black main character outlive the white cast, and somehow you think its racist.

You do know that Romero has said, up and down, for 40 or so years that the part was supposed to be a white guy. I dont really think he's lying either.

And lets point out that not only do the black main characters in the subsequent Dead movies live (Dawn and Day), the rest of the white cast in NOTLD were murdered horribly.

If you think the ending of Night had anything to do with the character's race, you are grossly missing the point.

I remember a television interview with Romero a long time ago that said the actor was chosen simply because he was the best one of the bunch that they auditioned for the role. It was always the intent that the hero would "get it" in the end no matter who played the part.

I think Romero went on the say that any social commentary regarding the character's race was unintentional but that people were free to draw their own conclusions. I really wish I could remember more about the interview, but I think Romero originally intended the hero to be shot because he was staggering out of the house all tired and exhausted like a zombie...

[jesse_custer]

Hey guys, why can't you just see the characters as dead people, not dead white or black people?

[MartinRedmond]

It's a cliche I never really thought much about. You want to add diversity to the cast, throw in a black guy here or there. No harm in that, right? But then, you want to increase the danger, so you kill off one of the less important characters, and the black guy bites it.

Seriously, what's up with that? I used to make jokes about it, and it was especially funny when they did it in Fantastic Four 2, but now it's starting to bother me (probably because I just saw it happen no less than twice in TV shows over this past week).


I think it's pretty annoying and not funny too. They've done this in the "product" I'm working on and I find it beyond lame / insensitive. There's not much you can do against it except point out it's not funny.

[MartinRedmond]

hahahah, oh yeah... but in the original "Night of the Living Dead" it was very obviously racist. it was so intentional. let me rephrase that. I don't think it was a 'racist' move--it was just so clear to me, the first time I saw that film, that if he'd been a white survivor they probably wouldn't have shot him dead on sight. the first NotLD was awesome! weirdly enough, it was a church pastor that was telling me how magnificent that movie was when it came out. :eek:

I always saw him being shot as a social commentary on racist officers.

[90'sCartoonMan]

However, I think it's naive to think that people aren't (at best ) playing favorites, and (at worst) sucombing to something subconcious. Does art imitate life? Or, does life imitate art?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edt2BvFvwdg

Although that woman seems fixated on male genitalia, she does bring up an interesting point. The human subconscious is a scary place to be.

I am also curious as to why we haven't had anymore "Shaft" type shows.

Deep Space 9 was the last sci-fi-action/adventure show I remember that aired in prime time with a black lead. Captain of a space station
(not a voyage). Dies in the end to "save the day". In the same series we FINALLY get a Black love intrest (Sysco dated but was never a "sex symbol") in Warf (Klingon, I know, but back then it was as close as we got) and Dax.

Shaft was more a product of its time, and the novelty wore off. Then again, they did re-make Kojak with Ving Rhames. We haven't seen the last of sci-fi action/adventure shows with black leads, but they are somewhat rare.

[Nate Grey]

BTW, Bashir isn't cacausian, is he?

Nope.

I know the actor is Muslim, but his ethnicity is kinda tricky, I guess the accent throws it off.

I figured he was either Egyptian or Indian, judging by how his parents (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Bashir%2C_I_Presume%3F_%28DS9_episode%29) looked.

[nervmeister]

Was it a gag or is the character realy gone?

I didn't like him much anyway, as I thought he was the least funny member of the "crew".

There was something about his voice and demenor that irked me. Ha ha! He never really died. It was all a simulation. Guess you're still stuck with the black guy! Have fun, whitey! Hahahahahahaha! :p

[Justin D.]

Sure if your from Alabama.

or mississipi

I love the irony of these statements in a thread that deals with possible prejudices. And by love, I mean not love.

[Thorlief]

when a racist dies, he becomes all black




I always thought Bashir was supposed to be Indian actually..even though the name is Arabic. His mom was called Aisha huh? She looked more Indian than Arabic anyway

Al Siddig is Sudanese, his complete name is صدّيق الطاهر الفاضل الصدّيق عبدالرحمن محمد أحمد عبدالكريم المهدي

[Nate Grey]

when a racist dies, he becomes all black




I always thought Bashir was supposed to be Indian actually..even though the name is Arabic. His mom was called Aisha huh? She looked more Indian than Arabic anyway

Al Siddig is Sudanese, his complete name is صدّيق الطاهر الفاضل الصدّيق عبدالرحمن محمد أحمد عبدالكريم المهدي

Well the guy who played his dad is Egyptian, so it could go either way, but more than likely he's Indian.

[Sean Walsh]

With all due respects, as a white man I'm more concerned with all the white people who die in these movies.

Sure, 1 black guy gets killed.....meanwhile, white men and women get offed in much greater numbers and frequency.

We generic pale faces are clearly becoming a minority in America and around the world, so I speak for all of my pasty skinned cracker bretheren when I say "STOP KILLING SO MANY WHITE PEOPLE, HOLLYWOOD!!!"

[maczero]

With all due respects, as a white man I'm more concerned with all the white people who die in these movies.

Sure, 1 black guy gets killed.....meanwhile, white men and women get offed in much greater numbers and frequency.

We generic pale faces are clearly becoming a minority in America and around the world, so I speak for all of my pasty skinned cracker bretheren when I say "STOP KILLING SO MANY WHITE PEOPLE, HOLLYWOOD!!!"Yeah but that's more of a numbers thing. If there's a predominantly minority cast in a horror movie then I wouldn't complain that most of the dead were people of color.

This reminds me of an old joke me and my friends used to make about horror movies only lasting 5 minutes if they had all black casts. The main reasons were:

1) We don't go camping.
2) We don't stay in houses that are rumored to be haunted or the scene of a mass murder.
3) When someone goes missing in a scary situation, no one will look for them.
4) Everyone is gone the second someone winds up dead.
5) We never trip when running for our lives.

[Scorpion13]

Yeah but that's more of a numbers thing. If there's a predominantly minority cast in a horror movie then I wouldn't complain that most of the dead were people of color.

This reminds me of an old joke me and my friends used to make about horror movies only lasting 5 minutes if they had all black casts. The main reasons were:

1) We don't go camping.
2) We don't stay in houses that are rumored to be haunted or the scene of a mass murder.
3) When someone goes missing in a scary situation, no one will look for them.
4) Everyone is gone the second someone winds up dead.
5) We never trip when running for our lives.


Although Im more than sure that Sean was joking, all of this can be pretty much be said for us white folk as well.

Only, we are much more likely to just call the cops instead of luring the killer into a final showdown. Like, fuck that. They have guns and know how to use them.

[Pinball]

5) We never trip when running for our lives.
Unless you're a woman.

[Nikita]

Yeah but that's more of a numbers thing. If there's a predominantly minority cast in a horror movie then I wouldn't complain that most of the dead were people of color.

This reminds me of an old joke me and my friends used to make about horror movies only lasting 5 minutes if they had all black casts. The main reasons were:

1) We don't go camping.
2) We don't stay in houses that are rumored to be haunted or the scene of a mass murder.
3) When someone goes missing in a scary situation, no one will look for them.
4) Everyone is gone the second someone winds up dead.
5) We never trip when running for our lives.



That's just called "common sense", which seems to be sorely lacking with the white characters in horror movies most of the time. LOL.

Maybe it would be more racist to depict the black characters doing all the stupid things the white characters do all the time in movies, like going down into a dark basement when the lights are broken and fellow friends have already been found dead. If the white people keep doing stupid things, then they deserve to die horrible deaths in these movies. LOL.

I just wish the black characters could make it to the end of the movies, alive more often.

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

I love the irony of these statements in a thread that deals with possible prejudices. And by love, I mean not love.its not prejudiced to think racism is predominantly in the south.thats where most of the racist legacy comes from.

[TYLIN]

Don't most characters in most horror/thriller movies get
killed offf anyway, except for the hero and a female love
interest?

THis is why I loved "Deep BLue Sea" so much. I recall that
the black guy didn't die (LL Cool Jay), and the female
did.

I was expecting the opposite, so that we'd up with the
usual "white man-white woman surviving" ending (like in
"Leviathon").

[TYLIN]

I always thought Bashir was supposed to be Indian actually..even though the name is Arabic. His mom was called Aisha huh? She looked more Indian than Arabic anyway

Al Siddig is Sudanese, his complete name is صدّيق الطاهر الفاضل الصدّيق عبدالرحمن محمد أحمد عبدالكريم المهدي

I remember many years ago reading some article that said
that Dr.Bashir was supposed to be of Moroccon ancenstry.

If he was supposed to be Indian, they probably would have
given him a Hindu name.

(It was interesting to read that Siddiq's uncle is Malcolm
McDowell.)

[Monty_Cristo]

Don't most characters in most horror/thriller movies get
killed offf anyway, except for the hero and a female love
interest?

THis is why I loved "Deep BLue Sea" so much. I recall that
the black guy didn't die (LL Cool Jay), and the female
did.

I was expecting the opposite, so that we'd up with the
usual "white man-white woman surviving" ending (like in
"Leviathon").

i think LL refused to sign on unless they played it that way.

[Legato]

i think LL refused to sign on unless they played it that way.

Out of Samuel L. Jackson and LL I was expecting Jackson to survive in the end over LL, if it ever were going to come down to one of them surviving.

I for one never expected LL to survive in the end of Deep Blue Sea.

[Monty_Cristo]

Out of Samuel L. Jackson and LL I was expecting Jackson to survive in the end over LL, if it ever were going to come down to one of them surviving.

I for one never expected LL to survive in the end of Deep Blue Sea.

but he was the cook. they always live (except on the Titanic).

[Tobias March]

LL Cool J shall forever be commemorated for his role in 30 Rock...

"Got your nose!"

"Hey..get my nose back."

[DMike]

Didn't LL also end up having his character survive Halloween:H20 as well? I think in like the DVD version or something, while he definitely died in the version they show on TV.

[Monty_Cristo]

Didn't LL also end up having his character survive Halloween:H20 as well? I think in like the DVD version or something, while he definitely died in the version they show on TV.

he didn't die in any of the versions i saw (at the theatre or on dvd). he was shot accidentally but survived it.