Does anyone read Lucifer?

[icemanflam]

I picked up the first Tpb, and i wasnt all that impressed, Just curious does it get better as it progresses or are all the tpbs similar to the first

[Ryan Day]

It gets much, much better. In the second volume Carey starts setting up the big, epic stories. The art settles down a lot, too, with Gross & Ormston trading off nicely. It's probably one of my favourite series of the past few years.

Definitely give the second volume a try, anyway.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Although I think the first volume of LUCIFER is far from bad, the series does nonetheless really take off with the second volume, and it's a wonderful ride from then on.

I personally rank it among the half-dozen or so best series Vertigo has ever done, up there with books like SANDMAN, PREACHER, THE INVISIBLES and HELLBLAZER during its strong periods.

[icemanflam]

Sweet, ill pick up the second some time soon

[matthewaos]

I always wanted to read it, never have though. I think the series ended half a year ago, right?

[Ilash]

I also just read the first TPB but I really liked it so it's good to see that it gets even better.

[Mr. Kent]

I tried Lucifer, and wanted to like it as much as Sandman and the Dreaming--

I like Carey as a writer, but maybe it was just a slow-starter...

[zhivago]

It starts slows and then suddenly transforms itself into one of Vertigo's finest comics ever published.

[icemanflam]

Everyone seems to love it, i'll keep on with the series

[The Lucky One]

I read the first trade and didn't like it all that much... Lucifer himself was fun, but the two storylines themselves didn't wow me. Almost a year later I decided to give the second trade a chance just for the hell of it, and loved it from there. Yep, the series started slow, but it definitely picked up from there.

-D

[Aaron C]

I agree, definitely one of the best series Vertigo has published.

Could even beat Sandman, as it is consistently good the whole way through.

[aelio]

I'll add my voice to the recomendations as well. I have collected the entire run in trades and was consistently blown away. Awesome, awesome stuff.

[dancj]

With the exception of the single issue story that Dean Ormston drew, I thought the first trade was piss poor. Luckily that single issue was good enough to make me give the series another try and it does get much better.

Overall though it's not a fantastic series, but it is decent if you're into that kind of thing.

[FanboyStranger]

The series improves a great deal with the second trade "Children and Monsters" and continues a incredible run of impressive epic stories that build on each other through the conclusion of "The Mansions of Silence" in issue 40. After that, it's still a great book, but gets a little up its own ass in terms of continuity through "Morningstar", which is essentially the resolution to the ongoing events of the series from the original Sandman Presents: Lucifer mini. The last few issues are similar to "The Wake" from Sandman, in that the conflict is over, the new status quo touched upon, and some of the characters followed up. Fortunately, the "Evensong" trade is packaged with the Nirvana prestige one-shot, which features great Jon J. Muth painted art.

[Jimmy Starburst]

I agree, definitely one of the best series Vertigo has published.

Could even beat Sandman, as it is consistently good the whole way through.

With all due respect, i have to STRONGLY disagree. While Lucifer is my homeboy (and Mazikeen my ryde or die chick) and that book was the bomb, it never came close to the levels of brilliance in SANDMAN. Mike Carey worked from the foundations laid by Neil Gaiman, and it while he ran with it pretty well, he never seemed to fully grasp (or perhaps just failed to fully utilize) the limitless potential of the cosmology developed by Gaiman.

And opinions aside, LUCIFER can hardly be called consistent when seemingly every other issue was a filler?

But by all means read LUCIFER, but read the book it spun-off of, SANDMAN, first.

[FanboyStranger]

And opinions aside, LUCIFER can hardly be called consistent when seemingly every other issue was a filler?



That's way off. The "filler" issues mostly came after the conclusion of each arc, a la Sandman (as collected out of order in Fables and Reflections, and all the elements and characters that appeared in those issues eventually did have a bearing on the overall plot of the book. The only one that appears in the middle of an arc is the second statue of Erikul story that serves no real purpose but to show that all Hell has mobilized to march on Heaven under Rudd.

They're also some of the best issues of the series, in my opinion.

[gorthon616]

With all due respect, i have to STRONGLY disagree. While Lucifer is my homeboy (and Mazikeen my ryde or die chick) and that book was the bomb, it never came close to the levels of brilliance in SANDMAN. Mike Carey worked from the foundations laid by Neil Gaiman, and it while he ran with it pretty well, he never seemed to fully grasp (or perhaps just failed to fully utilize) the limitless potential of the cosmology developed by Gaiman.

And opinions aside, LUCIFER can hardly be called consistent when seemingly every other issue was a filler?

But by all means read LUCIFER, but read the book it spun-off of, SANDMAN, first.

Lucifer and Sandman are both entirely different things. The cosmology that Gaiman set up is merely a splash of Lucifer's, and they are both really intended to occupy different space conceptually. Lucifer is about re-definition through denying destiny, whereas Sandman is about more introspection and reflection. Though the two characters are (effectively) very similar, both attempting to cope with the responsibilities their nature placed upon them, they both deal with them differently. Dream deals with it in a manner of attempting professionalism, but all the while eying a world outside of that area. Lucifer punches out and tries to create that world. Ultimately, they both choose annihilation (of sorts), but even that was entirely different as well. Dream adheres to his duty as best as he can, but mercifully (as Lucien says) leaves it behind him. Lucifer on the other hand adheres to his rebellion until the very end, choosing the end out of pride rather than acceptance. Ultimately, one is capable of growth and his story is about that growth, whereas the other is the story of one who is incapable of growth and how despite his powers he still meets the same end.

"Failed to fully grasp or utilize" imo is something of a disservice to Carey. This wasn't Sandman II, nor was it meant to be. Both are character driven stories focusing on identity and purpose, but one is reflective in nature and the other is pro-active in nature. I definitely commit Lucifer to the same stature as Sandman has, though for completely different reasons.

[Jimmy Starburst]

i agree with what you'rs saying, and its those character traits and themes that made me root for Lucifer all the way.. the book is fucking good, but its just my opinion that SANDMAN is insnanely brilliant. but one of you're comments got me thinking...


The cosmology that Gaiman set up is merely a splash of Lucifer's, and they are both really intended to occupy different space conceptually.

the world of SANDMAN is in the mainstream DCU - as far as i could gather - due to appearances by some of the JLA and some minor superheroes. however the book managed to avoid any complications by sticking to previously established continuity (the triumvirate in hell) and not really overstepping its boundaries. now obviously the various editors would never give it any bearing on the rest of "the universe", but what about the cosmic reshuffling that occurs in LUCIFER?

[gorthon616]

i agree with what you'rs saying, and its those character traits and themes that made me root for Lucifer all the way.. the book is fucking good, but its just my opinion that SANDMAN is insnanely brilliant. but one of you're comments got me thinking...

the world of SANDMAN is in the mainstream DCU - as far as i could gather - due to appearances by some of the JLA and some minor superheroes. however the book managed to avoid any complications by sticking to previously established continuity (the triumvirate in hell) and not really overstepping its boundaries. now obviously the various editors would never give it any bearing on the rest of "the universe", but what about the cosmic reshuffling that occurs in LUCIFER?

Yeah. Honestly, the only point where I decided that Lucifer was a jerk was when he broke up with Maz. Jerk.

Well as far as the triumvirate went, the situation settled out differently than it did in Hellblazer (as near as I can tell). I'm also uncertain if the Norse gods have ever been used in DC proper and if they are consistent with their portrayal in Sandman. Lucifer (despite some modest cross-over in... that witches book? and Hellblazer) is probably a little bit more off-the-main. I would think of it like Hellblazer punched a tiny hole in DC proper and created a world on the other side, Sandman did the same to the Hellblazer world, and Lucifer did the same to the Sandman world. As far as how the storyline would play out, I don't think they way it played out would necessarily make a difference continuity-wise (though I guess it opens up the possibility of Superboy-Retcon punches). Heaven isn't as commonly played in books, we only saw a small portion of hell, and Lucifer, as portrayed, is not necessarily a constant force in the universe so his absence would not make a large difference. I hope some of Carey's creations (like Gaudium, Spera, Maz, and Solomon) get re-used like Gaiman's characters have been. But much of the steam of the characters is lost without Lucifer around.

Though I definitely would buy a Mazzikeen book.

[Aaron C]

1. Mazikeen was a Gaiman creation - she appears in Sandman.

2. I would have thought Sandman has more filler issues than Lucifer?

[gorthon616]

1. Mazikeen was a Gaiman creation - she appears in Sandman.

2. I would have thought Sandman has more filler issues than Lucifer?

1. True. Though Maz was basically a blank slate when Carey started writing her.

2. It's tough to say. What qualifies as a "filler" issue? Carey's are a bit more easy to see, but when it comes to Sandman, it's much more difficult to say. To a certain extent I would say that the majority of Sandman would be filler. But considering the main-character-as-a-backdrop-rather-than-a-focal-point nature of Sandman, filler sort of becomes the main storyline.

In any case, yes read Lucifer. Carey can sometimes take a little while to get going (I felt the same way about his Hellblazer), but he definitely is great at huge arcs. I did feel like the story teetered near the end, but it had a solid finish.

[Jimmy Starburst]

2. It's tough to say. What qualifies as a "filler" issue? Carey's are a bit more easy to see, but when it comes to Sandman, it's much more difficult to say. To a certain extent I would say that the majority of Sandman would be filler. But considering the main-character-as-a-backdrop-rather-than-a-focal-point nature of Sandman, filler sort of becomes the main storyline.

thats what i'm saying. and i would definitely buy a Mazikeen serires.... god i love that girl.

[dancj]

She's a good character, but reading her dialogue is a nightmare (except when her face was fixed)

[gorthon616]

thats what i'm saying. and i would definitely buy a Mazikeen serires.... god i love that girl.

omg. i just realized my purpose in life.... i'm going to start working on a pitch for a DC Mazikeen on-going series right now.

and on an aside, does anyone know where I can DL Lucifer cover art but without the title on it? I had gotten them from some site before, but I don't remember anymore and I hard drive blew up a month or so ago.

[jabrams007]

I know this is a little off-topic, but with a recent comic shop having a huge online tpb sale after Thanksgiving, I bought volumes 3-11 of Lucifer. I loved Sandman, and really dug the first two tpbs of Lucifer, but never got around to getting the rest of it. 40% off all tpbs solved that problem :D

Can't wait to start reading it.

Quick question: Are there any specials or one-shots not included in the 11 tpbs?

[Jimmy Starburst]

Quick question: Are there any specials or one-shots not included in the 11 tpbs?

there is the LUCIFER: NIRVANA one-shot which features Daniel...
haven't read it yet however, and i'm unsure on when it takes place within the regular series...

[gorthon616]

there is the LUCIFER: NIRVANA one-shot which features Daniel...
haven't read it yet however, and i'm unsure on when it takes place within the regular series...

I don't know when it would go in the series exactly, but it's included in the last TPB.

[Baltho08]

Although I think the first volume of LUCIFER is far from bad, the series does nonetheless really take off with the second volume, and it's a wonderful ride from then on.

I personally rank it among the half-dozen or so best series Vertigo has ever done, up there with books like SANDMAN, PREACHER, THE INVISIBLES and HELLBLAZER during its strong periods.

Co-signed. It gets much better after the first arc, though the first arc does set up a lot of the stuff that the series addresses later on, as the whole thing does eventually come full circle, in a way.
Peace.

[Baltho08]

omg. i just realized my purpose in life.... i'm going to start working on a pitch for a DC Mazikeen on-going series right now.

and on an aside, does anyone know where I can DL Lucifer cover art but without the title on it? I had gotten them from some site before, but I don't remember anymore and I hard drive blew up a month or so ago.

You can get a lot of them here:

http://www.kaluta.com/pages/comics/lucifer/index.html

Peace.

[Ryan Day]

thats what i'm saying. and i would definitely buy a Mazikeen serires.... god i love that girl.

That might be interesting... but I want a Carey/Ormston Gaudium series first.

Seriously. It would be so awesome.

[gorthon616]

That might be interesting... but I want a Carey/Ormston Gaudium series first.

Seriously. It would be so awesome.

LOL. It totally would be. Though I'm not sure if it would be on-going worthy... taking the character seriously enough do an on-going would ruin his charm... But yeah... I need my Gaudium fix too.

[kanjisheik]

I started reading Lucifer quite late [sometime in 2004] and I was astounded by the fact that it wasnt as well known as The Sandman. Mike Carey has done a terrific job in getting into Lucifer's psyche, Peter Gross' artwork is stunning, and the series rocks bigtime!!!

This series is one of my all time faves and I'm disappointed that it dint get the recognition it deserved [during the time of publication, as compared to Sandman...]:(

[gorthon616]

I started reading Lucifer quite late [sometime in 2004] and I was astounded by the fact that it wasnt as well known as The Sandman. Mike Carey has done a terrific job in getting into Lucifer's psyche, Peter Gross' artwork is stunning, and the series rocks bigtime!!!

This series is one of my all time faves and I'm disappointed that it dint get the recognition it deserved [during the time of publication, as compared to Sandman...]:(

I think one of the main reasons that Lucifer (and works like Crossing Midnight) don't get much recognition is because it's no longer consistent with the modern Vertigo motif, and the basic mainstream ideas of what non-mainstream books should be. Vertigo seems to be pushing a lot of edgy modern type stuff. Even books like Y, Fables, Testament, American Virgin, Army at Love, etc etc seem less interested in creating fantasy environments than they do in playing out like a philosophical thesis with pictures. (Though I should mention I do not avidly read those books, but I've tried out each of them). It's not as big on the fantasy type book anymore, and honestly the readership that looks to Vertigo doesn't look to that sort of story quality anymore.

Not wanting to sound down on that style (though I feel it's gotten to the point where --not just considering Vertigo-- it is as bad as the 90's big guns, big claws, bad girls, holo-foil cover days), but its pretty much in vogue nowadays and not consistent with either of Carey's big Vertigo works (Faker seems like it might be more in line with it, though I ditched it after the first issue)

[Jimmy Starburst]

Not wanting to sound down on that style (though I feel it's gotten to the point where --not just considering Vertigo-- it is as bad as the 90's big guns, big claws, bad girls, holo-foil cover days), but its pretty much in vogue nowadays...

ha! no doubt...

[mlcm]

I didn't think I was going to like Lucifer, but I read the reviews and found out about Carey's long-term arcs, I was interested. I wasn't a big fan of The Sandman; it just didn't click with me. Nothing against The Sandman, though. Fine art.

But Lucifer. Wow. I think I read the entire series in about three sittings. I was going through it like [insert simile here]. Anyway, I thought it was phenomenal. Funny thing, I forgot to read the tenth tpb on my first way through. So when I finished the eleventh one, I was sort of confused, but very satisfied.