Comic Book Idol comment and suggestions

[Brandon Hanvey]

We here at CBI would like to see if anyone had some input on CBI.

What did you like?

What did you not like?

What would you change?

What would you keep?

Anything else you can think of?

As always, please keep it civil.

[davidbovey]

What did I like...
The variety of assignments and seeing what each contestant did with them.

What I didn't like...
Judge participation was inconsistant. Only two comments in the final round for each artist? That was extremely disappointing to me.

What would I change?
Have an entry round. A 6th round added to start the contest. Anyone who wants to be considered must complete the assignment and the judges would then choose their 10 from what is entered. That way you can judge who gets in on a level playing field.

Allow the judges to vote and for their votes to carry more weight than the average voter. 1 vote from Marc Silvestri could equal 10 regular votes. To me they should have more of a role and impact on who moves on. Because their critiques don't really sway votes.

I also agreed with Marc Silverstri's comments about not letting the artists shine due to so much being piled into a tight deadline. I'd like to see these guys have a little more room to do their best. I mean. The last assignment was a bit over the top. Come up with a pitch, draw 4 pages and a cover in 5 days? To me that's not very realistic and sets these artists up to look bad.

[colalle]

Great idea! Thanks for posting it.

I would suggest you have the judges pick the winners (since they usually have more experience then the rest of us do). But also have a separate poll where the members pick their favorite, and then the winner might win a different prize.

[cg_maniac]

maybe give the contestants more time to complete assignments, especially when it gets to be four pages?

I thought the two days between the submission and the voting was for the judges to get their reviews in, but since it seems that some critiques come in whenever (no offense, judges), you should just have the voting start the same day they give in their assignment (Monday).

Then start the next assignment the following day after the elimination (Tuesday), to give them almost a week to get it done - couple of extra days.

That's a great idea for the entry contest, by the way.

[mightyfineline]

What did you like? The love and adoration of my 50 some-odd fans.

What did you not like? Being eliminated.

What would you change? I would not have gotten eliminated.

What would you keep? Me... in the contest.

Anything else you can think of? Uhrm... nope.

[BoosterBronze]

I really liked some of the assignments in the previous CBR's, where it was more open ended, like the design a hero from a greek god, or show a superhero getting ready.

The scripted ones were neat, but I also liked the more free-form ones.

[davidbovey]

I really liked some of the assignments in the previous CBR's, where it was more open ended, like the design a hero from a greek god, or show a superhero getting ready.

The scripted ones were neat, but I also liked the more free-form ones.

I agree with that too. It was fun to see a mix of assignments, but I understand why it switched to this format.

[jasonbaroody]

What did you like? the whole frigin' thing, its fun and exciting to watch. CBI rules!

What did you not like? hhmmm. i guess the guest judges could have critiqued faster. i know some of them were very in depth, and some i guess just couldn't find the time.
seems us fanboys really look foward to hearing what the guest judges have to say...so maybe if time is an issue for judges they could just chime in with a quick what they liked and what they didn't like maybe... a sort of thumbs up/thumbs down at least?

What would you change? maybe with that last assignment. you could have let them have a week to really pull something together. it wasn't much time to come up with a pitch.
plus it's the final round,more time would let the last two contestants "show off". more contestants,maybe? 12 instead of 10, which would make it run longer;)

What would you keep? everything but the time constraints on that last assignment.

Anything else you can think of? not really. thanks for asking.

[polystyleneman]

What did you like?
Sequential pages


What did you not like?
The lack of judges comments. Totally understandable when there are huge out of control fires but when judges just don't show? A little odd.

What would you change?
Add an element of unpredictability. Maybe have the judges pick their favorite disqualified contestant to come back as a final challenge to the winner or for the final two. As a way to balance the votes with judge's opinions?

I like the idea someone mentioned about an assignment-based submission round.

Maybe make the assignments a little more realistic for the amount of time provided. I agree with Mark and the above comment that maybe 4 pages, a cover, and a plot was a bit much for a little over three days.

What would you keep?
Sequential pages

Anything else you can think of?
Mightyfineline's responses cracked me up

[Brandon Hanvey]

The idea of an open first round assignment has been discussed, and we'll look into for future CBI's.

We are also exploring how to make the judge's reviews more streamlined and maybe have some say in the outcome of some rounds.

As for the deadlines, we will probably keep the same deadline schedule of assignment on Thursday and due on Monday. But you never know.

[kamgates]

After reading everyone else's thoughts it looks like I'm echoing some people. Must mean they're good ideas. :p

What did you like?
The Judges critiques. Especially if you contributed to the Play at home thread there was a lot to learn from them even though it was about someone else's work. This was especially true of Marc Silvestri's comments. Probably due to both having a big background as an artist and also in training new artists. He we very good at discussing the concept behind whatever change he wanted so his critiques are a great list of do's and don't for us aspiring comic book artists out here.

What did you not like?
The inconsistent judging contributions. Some things, like the California fires, are out of anyone's control. But that was back in the first two weeks. It would be great to find a way to generally have all the comments posted by the time voting starts. Otherwise the judges purpose gets marginalized. This is the first CBI I've followed, so I wonder how different this was this from previous rounds?

What would you change?
Though things didn't work out predictably at all, with John Reed coming in like a dark horse, I still like the idea Brandon mentioned of allowing the Judges to give a contestant immunity in the early rounds.

I thought Marc had a good point in his Judge comments when he said "Personally I’d like the see the format of the final round changed to give the remaining contestants time to incorporate tips and criticisms from previous rounds and really kick ass." It's true that if you're under a really tight deadline you're not going to be able to take your critiques and do something new with that knowledge. There's no time. But if you did that and gave them say, two weeks, then what do you do during that week since you can't just let the whole contest stall? My suggestion would be to bring back all the eliminated contestants for a round that's more aimed to be fun and silly and have some fun silly prize for the 'winner of the losers' or whatever. (I know, I know, there are no 'losers' :rolleyes: ) Alternately the finalists could get a couple days followed judged comments to go back to their art and make changes. Treat it as though the Judges were their editors. That would be real world applicable too.

What would you keep?
Everything else. Especially the sequential page focus. And keep having it every year. Not, ya know... every 3 years. ;)

[Hieu Le Bui]

What did you not like?

Round 5 definitely. Mainly because I thought it wasn't challenging enough.

What would you change?

If it has to be a pitch. Let it be by the artist and not so restricted to an old concept with the same set of characters. Otherwise what is the point?

Also, let the people vote for the kind of assignment for the final round if possible.

[Hieu Le Bui]

What I didn't like...
Judge participation was inconsistant. Only two comments in the final round for each artist? That was extremely disappointing to me.


I think Marvel may have let it go with commenting because probably they didn't like what they saw. My mother tells me that if I have nothing good to say then don't say it.

[Odinwolf]

What did you like?

-- The focus on sequential work was a really good idea and really demonstrated how each artist might work in the "real world" of comic book production.

-- The guest judges added a great element to the competition (whenever they actually posted) and the round-by-round prizes really added drama to the competition.

What did you not like?

-- The fanboy voters that registered at the site just to vote for a friend.

What would you change?

-- Give all the artists looking to submit optional scripts/assignments to work on so that they can all be judged by the same criteria.

-- Allow the judges to vote in each round to offset the fanboy voters and improve the results of the competition. Their votes can be weighted against the common vote and the overall results could determine which contestants advance.

-- Give the contestants more time for the final submission. The finals should be all-out, best of the best artwork. This time around, both submissions suffered because you asked for too much, too fast. It was a disappointing final battle and it should have been really amazing.

What would you keep?

-- Guest judges (if they actually participate)
-- Same focus on sequential artwork

Anything else you can think of?

Thanks for running the competition!

[KSBrennan]

What did you like?

The excitement. The fans cheering on their favourites but keeping it civil (for the most part). The professional assignments and great prizes throughout.

What did you not like?

The initial submission round. It was interesting to see some of the entries people thought were good enough (like the bad singers on American Idol) but it also made for wading through a lot of junk. I like the idea of a submission script being given out as the minimum for getting considered and then seeing the rest of their stuff as well. It would force people to be serious about submitting.

What would you change?

Make it easier for the judges to get their critiques in. Maybe giving them the art to look at prior to posting it in the forum. A day to review so the voting and critiques can be viewed at the same time.

I like the sequential stuff but I wouldn't have minded seeing a cover or character redesign round.

What would you keep?

Types of prizes.

Anything else you can think of?

Just thanks to Brandon and J for the hardwork and effort that obviously went into making this possible.

Make this contest yearly. I'll send the dye for the gray hair.

[Phil Clark]

Maybe shift the schedule so it isn't running in the fall like it is. My personal schedule is jammed at that time and either after the first of the year or so it is wrapped up before the beginning of October would work better for me. I don't know if that is true of anyone else though. Changing the timing of when the contest runs might provide for a different group of participants.

[Pól Rua]

I thought this was easily and by far the best CBI.
No complaints whatsoever.
Because the challenges covered such an array of tasks, it was nice to see both strengths and weaknesses in all the contestants' work.
The judges' comments were, almost always, very intelligent, thoughtful and informative. I know there are things which I'm seeing now which I hadn't considered before.
I loved the focus on sequential art, because honestly, if you're here, you should be well past the 'pin-up' stage.
And I was astounded by the talent that was on display. Some incredible work by all contestants.

As for the whole 'friends' vote' thing. When I work conventions as a retailer, it's good to sell stock, but the most important aspect to me is advertising. If we break even, but end up handing out all our business cards... that's a good thing.
Because while we might not make the money then and there... we'll MORE than make that cash over the long haul.
Same here. The contestant whose work you love may not have won, but you can bet that their work was SEEN.
And next week, when the friends and family are back doing whatever they were doing, some editor somewhere may be thinking that this guy's got the skills we need for a high profile project.

Good show, participants, judges and organizers.
And good luck to all the contestants.

[joh james]

Like: Enforcement of the rules. Deadlines. Voter participation. CBR blog. Appreciation threads. Mods. Play-At-Home. Script formations.

Dislike: Voting system. Judging irregularities. Placement of the PAH thread.

Change: Adding genres to assignments like horror, fantasy, sci-fi, superhero, suspense, romance, etc.... Perhaps a sectional assignment where contestant one completes script pages 1 to 3, contestant two: pages 4 to 6... Judges inclusion to the vote by implementing their Fav Pick(your Immunity Vote), or any two tier system that calls for The Peoples Champion versus The Industry Favorite when the dust settles. Continue the current system and it'll eventually devolve into the contestant with the fattest Paypal account(God forbid!) The PAH should be more accessible to the voting community, judges and newcomers. It's a waste of thunder to have them on a separate page, in a separate category. And maybe a loose crit substitute form for busy judges that number categories according to Round prowess(ex: On a scale of 1 to 5: art, storytelling, anatomy, uniqueness, script interpretation....)

Keep: Group art collage(great work, BH). Voter listing. Q & A. The scriptless assignment and intense deadlines(some of us do it for a living and a weekend won't break us. These guys did fantastic under the circumstances) SUCK. IT. UP.

Thanks for your time.:)

[warren_0]

What did you like? watching the play at home, the crits, the fast deadlines, sequentials only, the Q&A, the forum, appreciation threads, good mods with bon mots.

What did you not like? crits coming in late or no-shows. only so much you can ask of a volunteer, I know. I agree having the PAH thread easier to find would be smart. Stretching the guys too thin on the last round without someone in their corner. Think of the UFC reality show (for lack of an adequate example), the guys get tips, but how they ultimately choose to fight is up to them? Ignore your corner at your own peril. Just for the last round only, though.

What would you change? a bigger mix-up of genre - comics is a big medium, let's play in it! More CBR-initiated twists: 'immunities' or a fun round to top it off (as kamgates mentioned) would be cool to watch. I actually liked the idea of the last round being really hard, but maybe less about something an experienced pro would know more about. Pitching an idea might require extra touches an amateur just might not know of. Not due to lack of talent or skill, but what an editor's really looking for. Again, for that or a similar assignment, someone in their corner would be cool to give it a focus on what's important for whatever assignment requires the leap in the last round. And keep the volume down a bit. These guys proved they can hit a deadline by now? Time to concentrate on bigger skills to open it up and let 'em strut.

What would you keep?Erm, Wil Torres in the contest?;) Oh, and everything else. Especially the mod squad! Solid behind-the-scenes backup.

Anything else you can think of? NYCC!! Who's going!? T10 reunion!

THANKS! It was boss. I'll read CBR forever and ever!:D

[elheffe]

What did you like?
Most of it.

What did you not like?
The voting was pretty fixed. Maybe there should be a rule of 10 posts to vote or something. I realize--if that's even possible-- it's only is going to put more work on the mods, though.

What would you change?
I think that the judges having an 'immunity' pick would give the judges more sway. Also I like Jose's idea of different genres like science fiction, horror, etc. C.B.'s story was a good step.

What would you keep?
Everything else.

[garth_b]

What did you like?
The pace of the actual competition. 5 weeks from go to whoa, fantastic. The judges critiques. The fans enthusiasm. The professionalism of the CBR staffers involved. The sequentials

What did you not like?
What's not to like? I am sure there is something but nothing comes to mind at the moment.

What would you change?
An extra day or two in the final round only if the assigment is as big as this year. Annual competitions rather than triennial. Aspiring competitors post a single sequential image in the initial call for competitors with a link to their portfolio. I found it annoying to have to open many, many links to find I perhaps didn't like the style of art. In a couple of instances the link required me to be a member of that community so I couldn't get to see the images at all.

What would you keep?
Judges Critiques. Fan voting, after all it is us who end up buying the books. Overall pace of the comp. Hell, everything not mentioned above as perhaps being changed.

[Vig]

What did you like?
Judges comments, viewers comments, Play at Home thread, the crazy anticipation and excitement of seeing what the contestants has done every week, the prizes. Too many to write actually.


What did you not like?
Round 3 felt thematically similar to Round 1. Round 5 was too hard. Voting fraud. Judges posting comments late.

What would you change?
I like David Bovey's idea of an entry round. More diverse scripts. The judges actually affecting the votes or directly participate in choosing who gets to stay.

What would you keep?
The focus on sequentials.

Anything else you can think of?
Placing the Play at Home thread with the Comic Book Idol thread. It would ne easier to access.

[the goddamn batman]

What did I not like? The entire last round.

Comments from only one of the Marvel editors... God bless Marc, though. Just NOT ENOUGH TIME to do the assignment required. Period.

What did I like? Marc Silvestri and Dan McDaid. Oh, and the Mods, I think you guys did a great job with this.

[jpolacek]

The main thing I would change is that you would do CBI more often! :)

[Maresk]

What would I change?
Have an entry round. A 6th round added to start the contest. Anyone who wants to be considered must complete the assignment and the judges would then choose their 10 from what is entered. That way you can judge who gets in on a level playing field.

Now THAT'S a freaking fantastic idea.

[frbarba]

What did you like? idea/goal of this contest to help out aspiring comicbook artists to break in the industry

What did you not like? a single call for submission round. A lot of great artists were "overlooked" because judges are forced to choose only 10. Plus providing only a single thread for "play at home". It congested all our submissions

What would you change? as stated above

What would you keep? same 10 finalists, same sequential assignments

Anything else you can think of? if im not mistaken, bradon said CBI3 would focus on romance stories? i think CBs script was the only thing that provided that, but its still good

more power CBR!

[frbarba]

What did you like? idea/goal of this contest to help out aspiring comicbook artists to break in the industry

What did you not like? a single call for submission round. A lot of great artists were "overlooked" because judges are forced to choose only 10. Plus providing only a single thread for "play at home". It congested all our submissions

What would you change? as stated above

What would you keep? same 10 finalists, same sequential assignments

Anything else you can think of? if im not mistaken, bradon said CBI3 would focus on romance stories? i think CBs script was the only thing that provided that, but its still good

more power CBR!

[Mateus]

What did you like?
Caio Oliveira!!!
Ok, I know... I liked almost everything! I didn't "watch" CBI2 so I came here with the memory of CBI1 and was glad to see how much it evolved, specially with the more specific assignments. CBI is really a lot of fun and I hope we have more to "watch" in the future!

What did you not like?
The judges! I know they are volunteer but I think it would be much more useful to all if we had at least two or three judges that really went there and said something about ALL contestants before the voting begins. They don't have to be big stars, the big stars could stay as aditional judges, whenever they could, but there should be a couple of people doing a more serious job in this.

What would you change?
Maybe there should be more rounds so the final rounds only eliminate one at a time. Maybe round 4 should keep 3, so round 5 keeps 2 and round 6 is the final. Another idea would be to put more contestants on first rounds, and more people being eliminated, like round 1 starting with 16, round 2 with 12, round 3 with 8, round 4 with 6, round 5 with 4, then 3 and the final 2, or something like that.

And I really think the final assignment didn't work out, it was too much, they did a terrible job compared to their previous and it's just too much in too little time.

What would you keep?
The overall schedule works, meaning the weekly rounds, 1-day voting and all... the submission round and the selection seem pretty good to me also.

Anything else you can think of?
Maybe something should be done about the voting system... there were obvious problems with the multi-voting and all, but on the other side I think being a forum-based system keeps some people from voting. Maybe there could be a specific system, with some kind of specific registering that at the same time is more simple than the forum's and helps avoiding multi-voting.

And that's it, see you in CBI4!

[Maxmen Chuen]

Like?
The excitement of it all! The very thought that industry heavyweights have cast their eyes over here and registered our existence - and with that the dream of breaking into the scene tantalizingly becoming a reality, maybe.

Don't like?
The voting system which can be rigged. Good job Brandon and peeps for catching the cheats, but can't help thinking not all got caught.

Change?
The judges' participation. Maybe get some retired (i.e. not too busy) talents to form a permanent panel and have active talents on as guest judges. With that permanence, the judging panel can have votes too which I think should really be the case.

Keep?
Marc Silvestri! Damn cool of him to take time off to congratulate Jon Reed and Charles the Third!

Think?
Y'know, there're now some guys over at the Play@Home thread seriously talking about keeping the PAH alive. You can use that as a dry run to try out formats and fine-tune the whole process further.

[ScottDMSimmons]

What did you like? I liked the new "all sequentials" assignments... which also cleverly worked in character design, covers, and pin-ups. I liked the variety of assignments, and that each one had a particular company or genre in mind. I enjoyed reading judge and reader comments. I also liked Brandon's collages and side-by-side comparison postings. I LOVED the fact each round had a prize for at least one contestant, sometimes regardless of who won the most votes. I also liked that the former CBI contestants picked this year's finalists.

What did you not like? The judges' opinions mattered alot to those in the contest, and it would have been nice to see them show up every round. Someone mentioned a "form" being offered to the participating judges if they needed it for speed, and I thought that was a good idea. Maybe there should be only one guest judge, and three judges who stay throughout the whole thing.

What would you change? I second the idea of a 6th round (entry round). That gives everyone a fair shot and a great portfolio piece and weeds out those who aren't so serious about the competition. I also think going back to 12 contestants would be great so the contest would last one more week. And I think the final assignment should have more time given. Maybe a full week, which would even allow it to be a full back-up story size (8 pages) with a chance of being published.

What would you keep? The "all sequentials", Marc Silverstri, J Torres, and Brandon Hanvey. The blog too, which was a nice addition this year. And of course, the play-at-home thread.

Scott

[BADunn]

What did you like?
I liked seeing lots of different artists at work. The close monitoring on voting that booted out fraudulent voters is appreciated.

What did you not like?
The lack of variety. While each of the artists was distinct I was unhappy to see that there weren't any manga style artists chosen. While some of the artists were more stylistically different than others too many seemed to be the usual superhero comic book artists, even though they were exceptionally good artists. I'd like to see some art styles that you never see in comics just as a counterpoint. I'm also concerned that, again, there wasn't one single woman in the competition.

What would you change?
I'd add character or costume design challenges like in CBI's before. I also would like to see fewer superhero challenges. The Wonderlost script was a boon as it showed us that the artists could do more than superheroes, but can they do horror? High fantasy? I'd also add more rounds so that the later rounds can just eliminate one artist at a time instead of dropping two at a time. Add some sort of draw off if the difference between 'safe' and 'fail' is minute. No one should be kicked off if they're under by one vote.

What would you keep?
Dan McDaid. :)

Anything else you can think of?
When will there be CBI for writers? Not all of us can draw and writers have to struggle more to be seen in this industry. We need more breaks and people have been asking for a writer's CBI since the first one way back when!

As always, please keep it civil.
I side with Captain America

[Benny64k]

Jon Reed, where did you learn to draw? OMG you are amazing! I Can't belive it:eek: :eek: :eek: !

[Benny64k]

amazing just amazing

[garth_b]

Anything else you can think of?
Something else I just thought of was, perhaps after the last round, all the artists could do 1 page each of a ten page story. They obviously would have to stick pretty close to the script but it would be kind of interesting to see the contrasting styles through a complete story. It would have to use only already known charachters so something like the Legion story in CBI3 couldn't be done.

Then again maybe it is not such a great idea. Worth throwing in the ring though to see what reaction it gets.

[Nick Pitarra]

This was a very cool contest. I'd just like to comment on some things...

The idea of an entry round would be cool, BUT it would probably filter out the talented as well as the untalented. Meaning, if you're a busy artist that just wants to throw your name in the hat on a whim...you probably wouldn't if you have to submit a whole specific sequential sequence without knowing you'll even make it. Not knowing what this contest was before I got envolved, I probably would not have entered if I had to do an extra 3 page sequential just to enter. I'd justify not entering by telling myself that the time would be better served to finish things I'm already obligated to. You can tell pretty quick looking at someones sequential work, if they are at a level to compete in the contest or not.

The voting, I was stunned when the voting took place...it sucked. I hated it. I felt guilty for getting people to vote for me...felt like I was cheating. It seemed to suck the artistis merrit out of the contest But as the contest went on...and I actually thought about what was best for the contest. A public vote is the way to go. It makes for an exciting contest. It brings in new viewers to the site...and to comics in general,as biased as said new viewers may be to their contestant. The drama and the agony and the excitement, wouldn't be there if the judges had the last word on who stays and who goes. That being said....there votes should carry some more weight. I think this would work with some type of immunity being rewarded to who the judges like best each round, for the following round. I like the idea of the judges being able to bring back there favorite for the last round. Really, marketing the contest could fix everything, if the friends and family voting was only 5% to 10% of the voting total...it wouldn't make a difference, but its more like 90%. Spreading the word and getting more unbiased voters envolved will gradually fix the hiccup.

The professional envolvement is what makes this a great contest. Its really the best contest of its kind...you learn alot...its hard...and its fun.

I'll chime in more later...

~nick