Why are dubs less serious than subs?

[Darth Joker]

This isn't a general dub-quality issue so much as it's a nuanced observation.

There are a few anime episodes from a few different series that I've watched both with English subtitles, and in English dub.

And I've noticed a trend that flows across all different types of anime (it's not only true of, say, harem anime, for example). That trend is that the dub is inherently more comedic based (even if only incrementally) than the sub is. The dub is always less serious than the sub - it involves more catchy modern terms even if the setting of the anime is not present-day Earth, and it involves more slang than the subs do.

Now, this differential is usually not very pronounced (though it sometimes is), but I do find that it's true to at least a slight extent in most animes that I've watched in both dub and sub format.

As a long-time anime fan that's nonetheless not all that much "in the know" on the inner workings of English dubbing, I was curious if anybody knows why this may be, assuming you share my experience here?

Is it a cultural thing? Is it just assumed that North Americans can't endure/enjoy as many serious scenes in their anime as the Japanese can? Or is the original subtitle job very generic, and lacking the slangy flavour of the actual Japanese dialogue?

Just a few questions for my fellow anime fans here. :)

[Hitokiri]

Americans look at anime and most likely assume it's for children or teenagers and not adults, therefore they add more humor to appeal to these demographics regardless of whether the show is seinen or shonen or what have you. We haven't gotten over the cartoon equals childish, movie equals seriousness notion quite yet but we are getting better with Miyazaki's popularity and some more adult animes like Death Note making it over here. Of course there are exceptions but this is my opinion on the general view on anime in America.

[The Xenos]

I think maybe some Japanese dubs are more cartoonish than we realize. We just aren't used to understanding Japanese and their tonalities and how they speak. In a way, I think anime fans have a stereotype that anime isn't for kids and don't realize that it's as cartoony as it actually is.

Bleach or Naruto or One Piece are kids cartoons. I like them, but they can be very cartoony and goofy. We have fans who act like they're R rated movies or serious adult entertainment. No, they're not. Sure they're more dramatic, and fantastically so, compared to US kids shows, but they're still cartoony and for kids.

Mind you, I don't mean that as any insult. Being cartoony or more of a caricature isn't an insult, it's just a different style.

Of course, the trick is that anime has an age gradiant, from little kids shows all the way up to mature adult dramas into animated porn. So I'd guess that sometimes dub companies might have trouble figuring out which level of seriousness to put into the dub.

Hell, even on a single show there could be a goofy comedy character amongst a serious cast. I guess Ed on Bebop springs to mind there. Heh heh. Ed. Crap, now I got Mushroom Samba music in my head.

[Darth Joker]

Americans look at anime and most likely assume it's for children or teenagers and not adults, therefore they add more humor to appeal to these demographics regardless of whether the show is seinen or shonen or what have you. We haven't gotten over the cartoon equals childish, movie equals seriousness notion quite yet but we are getting better with Miyazaki's popularity and some more adult animes like Death Note making it over here. Of course there are exceptions but this is my opinion on the general view on anime in America.

That's the sense I get with a lot of anime.

[Darth Joker]

I think maybe some Japanese dubs are more cartoonish than we realize. We just aren't used to understanding Japanese and their tonalities and how they speak. In a way, I think anime fans have a stereotype that anime isn't for kids and don't realize that it's as cartoony as it actually is.

Bleach or Naruto or One Piece are kids cartoons. I like them, but they can be very cartoony and goofy. We have fans who act like they're R rated movies or serious adult entertainment. No, they're not. Sure they're more dramatic, and fantastically so, compared to US kids shows, but they're still cartoony and for kids.

One Piece does come across as cartoony and for kids to me. That's largely due to the nature of Luffy's character, and the overall art style of the show (big mouths with big teeth on ostensibly normal human characters makes me think cartoony, whatever the actual content may be).

I've always had the impression that Bleach is deadly serious, though, and for adults. Perhaps that's a misconception on my part.

Naruto I haven't seen enough of to judge, but I'd lean towards kids cartoon with Naruto due to the very set-up of the show (young ninjas being trained by older ninjas - it seems geared to appeal to people going to school, and not adults).

Full Metal Alchemist struck me as being an adult-oriented cartoon just as Bleach does. Is FMA a kid's cartoon over in Japan, I wonder?



Mind you, I don't mean that as any insult. Being cartoony or more of a caricature isn't an insult, it's just a different style.

Agreed. Actually, a genuinely dramatic kids' cartoon can be a great thing.



Of course, the trick is that anime has an age gradiant, from little kids shows all the way up to mature adult dramas into animated porn. So I'd guess that sometimes dub companies might have trouble figuring out which level of seriousness to put into the dub.

Hell, even on a single show there could be a goofy comedy character amongst a serious cast. I guess Ed on Bebop springs to mind there. Heh heh. Ed. Crap, now I got Mushroom Samba music in my head.

Good points.

[BYC]

Anime is believed in the US to be for adults, but this is definitely not the case. As with everything in the world, the people who follow it probably believe it's more than it really is.

Lots of the commercialized anime like Bleach, Inuyasha, and Naruto are definitely for kids/young adults. The main characters are all kids and their struggles and maturation. Older people can watch and enjoy them, but their target audience is kids/young adults. Many of the shows that end up on Adult Swim I don't really understand. There's no way that Inuyasha is for adults. Lots of those types of anime have A LOT of teaching/maturation type situations that are designed to affect kids/young adult thinking. Just as with all entertainment, when not teaching/preaching, these shows entice the audience with lots of action, romanace, drama, T&A, and other things.

I liken those type of anime into American shows like Smallville, Beverly Hills 90210, the endless amount of shows on WB/CW, Buffy, or even the older American animations of the 80's and before. Those American shows are more for teens and young adults, although many adults like them as well. My point is they were mainly for the younger audience. As opposed to more mature shows like ER, Law and Order, the Sopranos etc.. GI Joe goes to Power Rangers goes to Pokemon, and etc etc etc. As times change, the execution changes too.

A lot of anime are just the Japanese version of sit-coms of here. I could be wrong, but was Friends ever a deep, thought provoking show? Seinfeld was certainly hilarious, and ushered in a different comedy style.

[Alex L]

I've always had the impression that Bleach is deadly serious, though, and for adults. Perhaps that's a misconception on my part.
<snipped>

Full Metal Alchemist struck me as being an adult-oriented cartoon just as Bleach does. Is FMA a kid's cartoon over in Japan, I wonder?

As far as I know, both of those series are aimed at teenagers.

Bleach may not be overly comedic, but it is for the most part an action show with cool swords that have different abilities.

[captain_unimpressive]

And what about the censorship that occurs during localization?
There are a lot of things which seem to be acceptable for the target demographic in Japan that aren't here--so they end up taken out, or when that's not possible, re-contextualized in the translation. For example, I remember an episode of Digimon I saw when I was a kid, in which the kids are trapped in some kind of prison run by a Digimon. The jailer is given "soda", which is contained in wine bottles, and because "the bubbles go to his head", leaving him staggering, red-faced, and slurring his speech, they can escape without him noticing.


Bleach may not be overly comedic, but it is for the most part an action show with cool swords that have different abilities.

I understand your point.
But this post made me laugh for about a minute and a half.

[Quilt]

This is why I generally try to avoid the dubbed version of any film. There are a number of shows where I've never even heard the North American voices attached to the characters. Even though I'm reading it, I can hear the tone of the original voice actors and can make better sense of what's going on in the scene. I feel like I'm missing certain nuances otherwise.

[superbatman86]

The thing with Anime and Japanese media in general is that they are WAY less strict in what they consider age appropriate.Also many anime like Bleach,Naruto, and espessially Dragon Ball can go from all out humor to guys getting holes blown through them in literaly 5 seconds.No western kids show except Avatar(and even then the change it's not as drastic) does this or would find this acceptable for young kids where the Japanese don't even batt their eyes at it.

[Darth Joker]

The thing with Anime and Japanese media in general is that they are WAY less strict in what they consider age appropriate.Also many anime like Bleach,Naruto, and espessially Dragon Ball can go from all out humor to guys getting holes blown through them in literaly 5 seconds.No western kids show except Avatar(and even then the change it's not as drastic) does this or would find this acceptable for young kids where the Japanese don't even batt their eyes at it.

That's probably a factor, yeah. At some level I think that shows that make such a drastic quick change from all out humour to brutal violence just "Does not compute! Does not compute!" with much of our western culture.

Honestly, I myself find it quite jarring, and generally perfer to keep all-out humour neatly seperated from brutal violence. The ability of the Japanese to have this quick, seamless transition from all-out humour to brutal violence and then back again to all-out humour is something that I may never fully understand.

I think what happens is that some folks (like myself) focus on the violence and think "Cool! An animated show for adults!" and other folks focus on the humour and/or the ages of the characters and think "A show for teenagers!".

[The Real Nemo]

Is it a cultural thing? Is it just assumed that North Americans can't endure/enjoy as many serious scenes in their anime as the Japanese can? Or is the original subtitle job very generic, and lacking the slangy flavour of the actual Japanese dialogue?
To be honest I think it's the second one a lot of the time. Subs tend to be very literal in their translations, and because of this they sometimes lose some of the more subtle aspects that a native speaker would hear including humorous ones. Dubs tend to try to make up for this and go for a less literal interpretation in order convey the original feel of the story better by localizing the humor and making it something that would be easier for a Western audience to understand.
And what about the censorship that occurs during localization?
That's really only an issue for anime shown on TV.

[Hitokiri]

Of course I like both dub and subs. There's really no reason to not like both. I think sub diehards like to use the excuse that the dubbed actors can't put enough emotion into it while the dub diehards don't like to read subtitles. Of course this is an extreme but anyway why not like both, that way you can enjoy it no matter what?

[Alex L]

I understand your point.
But this post made me laugh for about a minute and a half.

At me? :(

字下限

[The Xenos]

I think it's more that he hadn't thought of Bleach and it was an interesting way of putting it.

Let's not forget that every American dub is different. (Sidenote: Notice I said American dub. Remember, all anime is dubbed, even the Japanese one is a dub. Heck, most anime over there is dubbed after anyway, especially TV shows.) Each show is different. Aside from the original show, you also need to consider different dubbing studios and how each cast for each show comes together.

Oddly enough, I was a bit disappointed in a recent US dub, Death Note. Light was just okay. L seemed way too deep voiced. I couldn't tell it was him at first. I haven't seen Misa yet. Ryuk was okay. Looking up the names, most seemed to be new to anime. Plus Viz seems to have a whole different studio or casts. Meanwhile another friend refuses to watch the US dub. Then again, he likes L in a rather.. different way than I do.

[Darth Joker]

I think it's more that he hadn't thought of Bleach and it was an interesting way of putting it.

Let's not forget that every American dub is different. (Sidenote: Notice I said American dub. Remember, all anime is dubbed, even the Japanese one is a dub. Heck, most anime over there is dubbed after anyway, especially TV shows.) Each show is different. Aside from the original show, you also need to consider different dubbing studios and how each cast for each show comes together.

Oddly enough, I was a bit disappointed in a recent US dub, Death Note. Light was just okay. L seemed way too deep voiced. I couldn't tell it was him at first. I haven't seen Misa yet. Ryuk was okay. Looking up the names, most seemed to be new to anime. Plus Viz seems to have a whole different studio or casts. Meanwhile another friend refuses to watch the US dub. Then again, he likes L in a rather.. different way than I do.

Yeah, I saw a bit of dubbed Death Note (on cable TV during the middle of the night where I live, so I haven't really had a chance to see more than a episode of it), and my take on Light, L, and Ryuk is the same as your own. Not a terrible dub job overall, but hardly a satisfying one either.

[The Real Nemo]

Oddly enough, I was a bit disappointed in a recent US dub, Death Note. Light was just okay. L seemed way too deep voiced. I couldn't tell it was him at first. I haven't seen Misa yet. Ryuk was okay. Looking up the names, most seemed to be new to anime. Plus Viz seems to have a whole different studio or casts. Meanwhile another friend refuses to watch the US dub. Then again, he likes L in a rather.. different way than I do.
I'm enjoying the Death Note dub, but then again I haven't seen much of the original. From what I hear though the reason the cast isn't their usual is because the dubbing was done in Canada.

[Darth Joker]

To be honest I think it's the second one a lot of the time. Subs tend to be very literal in their translations, and because of this they sometimes lose some of the more subtle aspects that a native speaker would hear including humorous ones. Dubs tend to try to make up for this and go for a less literal interpretation in order convey the original feel of the story better by localizing the humor and making it something that would be easier for a Western audience to understand.

That could very well be it, yeah. I have to admit that a lot of subs I watch give me the impression that the Japanese are a very serious people.

And you're right about anime that never makes it on mainstream TV (at sane hours). Those tend to be dubbed pretty faithfully to the original content.