Did Ben Reilly love MJ?

[JesseJay]

A few questions have been on my mind concerning clones, particalarly Ben Reilly. since Ben is an exact genetic copy, does that mean he automaticlly loves MJ? I know Ben and Peter ended up with different outlooks on life, but at one point they were basically the exact guy, right? Was Ben born With a differnt personality then peter? anyone have any feelings?

[Sean Whitmore]

Well, two things you have to consider here.

When Ben was created, this was shortly after Gwen died. Peter and MJ were together, but their relationship then wasn't nearly as strong as it would be later. So I'm sure he was "born" with a fondness for her, but love is unlikely.

Second, while Ben was on the road with his "I'm not Peter" mindset, MJ was probably just a reminder of the trauma he'd experienced. Between that and the new love interests he met, I'm sure it became preferable for him to not even think of MJ that much.


SEAN

[Venom]

I'd say Ben cared deeply for MJ and wanted to look out for her as much as he could when Peter wasn't about, but he certainly wasn't in love with her. When he was first created he only had feelings for Gwen and he fell in love with quite a few women along his journey.

[Geardaddy]

Ben probably loved MJ in the way that Peter did before they were ever together. Despite Ben and Peter being exact genetic copies of each other, enviornment would also play a role in their developments. Since Peter was around and built a relationship with MJ, he'd undoubtedly have a different love for her than Ben would. But yeah, I'd say Ben had a love for her, just not the same kind of love Peter has.

[The Confessor]

OK, excuse me if I'm talking out of my hat here (haven't read the relevant issues for a while now) but why is there an assumption that Ben Reilly would've had exactly the same feelings for Gwen and MJ, at the time he first appeared, as Peter did?

I mean, Peter and Ben may've been exact genetic copies of each other but Ben Reilly was created in Prof. Miles Warren's laboratory. Presumably using some method of accelerated growth or something.

When Ben first appeared in ASM #149 he would've been identical to Peter in every physical way but why should he automatically have all Peter's memories? Memories surely can’t be re-created using genetic material, they must be solely dependant on life experiences that an individual lives through. Surely Ben Reilly hadn't met Gwen and MJ at the point he appeared in ASM #149 and so would've had no knowledge of (or feelings for) either of them?

I'm just not quite understanding how we can assume that Ben had an exact carbon-copy of Peter's memories and feelings at the point that he first appeared. :confused:

[Geardaddy]

OK, excuse me if I'm talking out of my hat here (haven't read the relevant issues for a while now) but why is there an assumption that Ben Reilly would've had exactly the same feelings for Gwen and MJ, at the time he first appeared, as Peter did?

I mean, Peter and Ben may've been exact genetic copies of each other but Ben Reilly was created in Prof. Miles Warren's laboratory. Presumably using some method of accelerated growth or something.

When Ben first appeared in ASM #149 he would've been identical to Peter in every physical way but why should he automatically have all Peter's memories? Memories surely can’t be re-created using genetic material, they must be solely dependant on life experiences that an individual lives through. Surely Ben Reilly hadn't met Gwen and MJ at the point he appeared in ASM #149 and so would've had no knowledge of (or feelings for) either of them?

I'm just not quite understanding how we can assume that Ben had an exact carbon-copy of Peter's memories and feelings at the point that he first appeared. :confused:

I could be wrong, and I'm sure there are others here that will be able to correct me if I am wrong, but I think Miles Warren created the clone complete with all of Peter's memoris. This would be why it was hard for them to determine who indeed was the original and who was the clone.

That said, when Ben hit the road after the events of ASM #149-151, Ben's development would have differed from Peter's. Peter would have grown more in love with MJ, and Ben would not of. They essentially became their own people from that point forward.

[matthewaos]

I'm 99,9% sure that the Jackal injected Ben with Peter's memories.

[Sean Whitmore]

I could be wrong, and I'm sure there are others here that will be able to correct me if I am wrong, but I think Miles Warren created the clone complete with all of Peter's memoris. This would be why it was hard for them to determine who indeed was the original and who was the clone.

Absolutely. That was the big thing about that issue (and the basis for the Clone Saga years later), that once there was only one Spider-Man left standing, he really had no way of knowing whether he was the clone or not.


SEAN

[The Confessor]

I could be wrong, and I'm sure there are others here that will be able to correct me if I am wrong, but I think Miles Warren created the clone complete with all of Peter's memoris. This would be why it was hard for them to determine who indeed was the original and who was the clone.

That said, when Ben hit the road after the events of ASM #149-151, Ben's development would have differed from Peter's. Peter would have grown more in love with MJ, and Ben would not of. They essentially became their own people from that point forward.

Ahhh...I see. That explains that then. I was thinking that maybe people were just automatically assuming that a clone has the memories of it's DNA source. Which obviously wouldn't be so in the real world.

[CBikle]

I'm 99,9% sure that the Jackal injected Ben with Peter's memories.

Hmm. I always thought the shared memories thing was a feature of Prof. Warren's cloning technique , I guess by using part brain-matter related to memories (white matter ?) and then growing the clone from that, thereby having a clone with thoughts/memories/knowledge appropriate to when the brain-matter was taken.

[JesseJay]

I couldn't remember exactly when Ben was cloned in relation to peter and MJ relationship. But everyone pretty much shares the same opinion as I.

[The Confessor]

Hmm. I always thought the shared memories thing was a feature of Prof. Warren's cloning technique , I guess by using part brain-matter related to memories (white matter ?) and then growing the clone from that, thereby having a clone with thoughts/memories/knowledge appropriate to when the brain-matter was taken.

Where in the hell would Prof. Warren get a sample of Peter's 'brain matter' from? I've always assumed he used something like a strand of Peter's hair or skin or something a lot more readily obtainable to create Ben Reilly.

Does anyone recall whether the DNA source Miles Warren used for either Gwen or Peter's clone has ever been revealed?

[Geardaddy]

Does anyone recall whether the DNA source Miles Warren used for either Gwen or Peter's clone has ever been revealed?

This is an interesting question. I don't know the answer, but am curious to hear from someone who knows...

[Theophilus]

I couldn't remember exactly when Ben was cloned in relation to peter and MJ relationship. But everyone pretty much shares the same opinion as I.

Way before Pete and MJ became lovers. And like a previous poster said, Ben had been several years removed from what was to him only a potential relationship. He came to see Pete as a brother, and MJ as a sister-in-law.

[Mr.50]

Where in the hell would Prof. Warren get a sample of Peter's 'brain matter' from? I've always assumed he used something like a strand of Peter's hair or skin or something a lot more readily obtainable to create Ben Reilly.

Does anyone recall whether the DNA source Miles Warren used for either Gwen or Peter's clone has ever been revealed?



Yes of course it has been revealed!!! :) in one of the classic ASM's (I believe it is in the 130's but I don't have time to dig it out right now) Peter and Gwen are both student's in Professor Warren's Science class where they are asked to donate blood samples (I think or it could be cotton swabs from the mouth) and it is later disclosed that Warren took these samples (which were allegedly going to be used for something to do with his class or research) and made the clones. I know I am not giving the exact story here but as I said the groundwork was set in some of those issues and each of these events actually occurred and then ASM #149 came out and all the pieces fell into place. It was masterful writing.

Mr.50

[matthewaos]

Yeah, if I recall, it was something like that. They gave samples to the Jackal, then the clones appeared (I think) in an earlier issue.

[The Confessor]

Yes of course it has been revealed!!! :)

Whoa!! Steady on fella, I was only asking. ;)

in one of the classic ASM's (I believe it is in the 130's but I don't have time to dig it out right now) Peter and Gwen are both student's in Professor Warren's Science class where they are asked to donate blood samples (I think or it could be cotton swabs from the mouth) and it is later disclosed that Warren took these samples (which were allegedly going to be used for something to do with his class or research) and made the clones. I know I am not giving the exact story here but as I said the groundwork was set in some of those issues and each of these events actually occurred and then ASM #149 came out and all the pieces fell into place. It was masterful writing.

Mr.50

Ah yes, the phrase 'blood samples' does ring a bell, now that you mention it. Like I said, it's been a fair old while since I last read those particular issues. I'll have to dig 'em out again.

But that does rather scotch the theory (expounded earlier in this thread by another poster) that the clones were grown from 'memory brain tissue'. Prof. Warren must've had some kind of arcane device in his cloning arsenal that replicated the memories of the DNA source as well as the flesh and bone. Hmmmmm...

Anyway, Thanks for the info Mr.50, much appreciated.

[Mr.50]

yah the memory implanting part of the cloning technique was alway very vague but we are just supposed to take it on faith that professor Warren was such an amazing scientist in the field of genetics/cloning that he was able to develop a technique to implant the memories of the person right up until the time the samples were drawn. That is why the last thing the clone remembers in issue 149 is giving the samples in class. Of course it would have been because Warren found some way to kidnap the real Peter Parker and keep him on ice all that time.

Mr.50