List of Creator Beefs

[mauisunset]

Just wanted to start a thread with a list of creator beefs and associated stories I'll list all the ones I can remember to begin with.

Stan Lee/Jack Kirby
Lee/Ditko
John Byrne/Everybody
Todd McFarlane/Niel Gaiman
McFarlane/Peter David
Peter David/Erik Larson
Rob Liefeld/Image
Steve Niles/Guy he left messages for
Jim Shooter/lot's of people at Marvel
Mark Millar/DC staff (could someone fill me in on that-I've never heard the story there?)

That's all I can remember off the top of my head. I've always been interested in the behind-the-scenes stuff.

Thanks all-and I hope no pros take this as me trying re-ignite hard feelings-just interested!

[Athena Bast]

Alan Moore/DC

[mauisunset]

Alan Moore/DC

yeah that's definately a big one!

[Ben Morgan]

I have no idea

[Sir Tim Drake]

Dave Sim vs. Jeff Smith
Tony deZuniga vs. all his fellow Filipino artists
Jim Warren vs. Bill Warren, Larry Ivie and numerous other people
Jerry Siegel and heirs vs. DC
Joe Simon vs. Marvel
Mark Evanier vs. Sergio Aragones (just kidding)

[mauisunset]

Dave Sim vs. Jeff Smith
Tony deZuniga vs. all his fellow Filipino artists
Jim Warren vs. Bill Warren, Larry Ivie and numerous other people
Jerry Siegel and heirs vs. DC
Joe Simon vs. Marvel
Mark Evanier vs. Sergio Aragones (just kidding)

Yeah those are all good ones-what are the first two, though, I've never heard of either of those (I know the creators, just not the beefs).

I won't be happy until comics has it's very own biggie and tupac.

Also, I read somewhere that Jeffory Dahmer was an inker for DC. Does anyone know what books he worked on and if he was any good?

[Jeff Brady]

Also, I read somewhere that Jeffory Dahmer was an inker for DC. Does anyone know what books he worked on and if he was any good?

Bullshit. There was, once upon a time, an inker who went nuts and killed his pregnant wife....Greg Brooks was his name.

I say "was his name" because once he got through the courts and therapy, he changed his name and became a bike messenger or something.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Yeah that Steve Niles thing was fucked up. Why Niles felt after stealing the dudes gf he should call up and be a dick made me even wonder. The ex-bf should have really grew a pair and gave Niles an ass kicking he deserved .

[mauisunset]

Bullshit. There was, once upon a time, an inker who went nuts and killed his pregnant wife....Greg Brooks was his name.

I say "was his name" because once he got through the courts and therapy, he changed his name and became a bike messenger or something.

You sure about the Dahmer thing? Now that I think of it, that comes from Ellis' Come In Alone from the other thread. He only mentions it in passing, but he doesn't sound like he's joking. In the book he says he worked for DC, I think.

[mauisunset]

Yeah that Steve Niles thing was fucked up. Why Niles felt after stealing the dudes gf he should call up and be a dick made me even wonder. The ex-bf should have really grew a pair and gave Niles an ass kicking he deserved .

I don't know. Niles tells the story differently and I think the other guy admits that the tapes where edited. As for asskicking, I think Niles sounded pretty confident on the tape of what would happen in that situation.

Besides the girl left her boyfriend. Happens all the time, and who knows what the situation was between them. Maybe he was a dick.

[Jeff Brady]

You sure about the Dahmer thing? Now that I think of it, that comes from Ellis' Come In Alone from the other thread. He only mentions it in passing, but he doesn't sound like he's joking. In the book he says he worked for DC, I think.

I'm sure of it. The guy was Klaus Janson's assistant for a while (before going off the deep end).

Also, if Dahmer was into comics, it would have been all over the news.

[Paradox]

Mike Parobeck vs. diabetes
Bill Mantlo vs. car

:(

[DonC]

Dave Sim vs. Jeff Smith


At Dave Sim's Half-Way There Tour back in 1992ish, I think it was, there was a young indy comic artist promoting his book who had just published his third issue. It was Jeff Smith.

Man, if I knew then what I know now. First printings on the complete series.

[Jeff Brady]

Mike Parobeck vs. diabetes
Bill Mantlo vs. car

:(

Jack Cole vs Gun
Will Eisner vs his heart

[DonC]

I'm sure of it. The guy was Klaus Janson's assistant for a while (before going off the deep end).

Also, if Dahmer was into comics, it would have been all over the news.


I think this guy's talking about the "My Friend Dahmer" comic book. It's a true story about a comic artist who went to high school with Jeffrey Dahmer.

[mauisunset]

I think this guy's talking about the "My Friend Dahmer" comic book. It's a true story about a comic artist who went to high school with Jeffrey Dahmer.

I'll take you guys' word on it, Ellis just sounded dead-serious in the book.

[mauisunset]

At Dave Sim's Half-Way There Tour back in 1992ish, I think it was, there was a young indy comic artist promoting his book who had just published his third issue. It was Jeff Smith.

Man, if I knew then what I know now. First printings on the complete series.

I don't get what the beef is though? Did Jeff Smith talk shit to him or did Sim think Bone was too close to cerebus?

[mauisunset]

[QUOTE=Sir Tim Drake;5786776]Dave Sim vs. Jeff Smith
Tony deZuniga vs. all his fellow Filipino artists
QUOTE]

Can anyone explain these?

[StoneGold]

Julie Schwartz and Colleen Doran?

[Spike-X]

Gary Groth vs. Harlan Ellison vs. Michael Fleisher

[Paradox]

Ooo, that one's a classic. Nobody came out of that one without shit all over them. :)

[andy circus]

Bill Willingham Vs. Comico
plus Matt Wagner vs. Comico
Alex Ross sounded pretty pissed at the NOW comics
that published the terminator comics he drew.
He said "thats where I became familiar with the term litigation."
They're being republished now by IBooks :)
Whats the story with Steve Niles?
I just watched 28 weeks later and I was "..groan...steve niles again..."
from the special feature '56 weeks earlier' dvd comic.

[thehod]

Pretty much everyone vs Marvel Comics & Stan Lee over the return of Jack Kirby's artwork in 1986

[mauisunset]

Bill Willingham Vs. Comico
plus Matt Wagner vs. Comico
Alex Ross sounded pretty pissed at the NOW comics
that published the terminator comics he drew.
He said "thats where I became familiar with the term litigation."
They're being republished now by IBooks :)
Whats the story with Steve Niles?
I just watched 28 weeks later and I was "..groan...steve niles again..."
from the special feature '56 weeks earlier' dvd comic.

He left some hardcore phone messages screaming and cussing at an ex of his then-current girlfriend. He was pretty vulgar and threatening.

That being said, he tells a different side of the story (which I can't remember in detail) and I believe the guy admits that the messages are edited. Still pretty hardcore though.

That sucks, I was looking forward to the movie. I liked the book, mostly cause of Templesmith.

[Wesley Dodds]

Can anyone explain these?

Dave Sim decided that all women were evil/stupid, including Jeff Smith's wife. Smith told Sim to shut up or he'd hit him. Years later, Sim declared that Smith was lying about this and challenged Smith to a boxing match. Sim's (female) secretary quit in disgust.

[Paradox]

Wesley Dodds lets me add one detail:

Dave Sim decided that all women were evil/stupid...

Which was more or less a childish (and not unpsychotic) overreaction to the breakup of his marriage. I like his work, but geez, Dave, grow up a little, huh?

[Wesley Dodds]

Which was more or less a childish (and not unpsychotic) overreaction to the breakup of his marriage. I like his work, but geez, Dave, grow up a little, huh?

I didn't know his marriage had broken up.

It's a chicken and egg thing. Did his attitudes breakup his marriage, or did his marriage breakup create his attitudes? Talk about a vicious circle.

[Spike-X]

The marriage breakup was in the 70s, so I'd say the latter.

[Wesley Dodds]

The marriage breakup was in the 70s, so I'd say the latter.

Have you seen photos of Dave Sim? I think his attitude to women may have something to do with how he's an ugly, ugly man.

[Paradox]

Spike-X gives the timing:

The marriage breakup was in the 70s, so I'd say the latter.

Agreed .

[andy circus]

He left some hardcore phone messages screaming and cussing at an ex of his then-current girlfriend. He was pretty vulgar and threatening.

That being said, he tells a different side of the story (which I can't remember in detail) and I believe the guy admits that the messages are edited. Still pretty hardcore though.

That sucks, I was looking forward to the movie. I liked the book, mostly cause of Templesmith.

Is it online? LOL, That sounds pretty cool to hear.
Its probably some britney spears type bullshit publicity thing though.
I'll look it up on youtube.
the 28 weeks later movie was great!
Robert Carlyle is great in any movie!
Except maybe Eragon, but I'm only 20 minutes into that.
[Edit] Its true, heres the audio. (http://www.mattbusch.com/nilesthreats.mov)!
He sounds like a douche!
I like the part where he punches the phone :)
[edit] I guess the other, spurned boyfriend, is a douche also.
[edit] LOL This is the same guy that does the 'you can draw star wars' ? ?!?
That girl would probably drive me nuts too with the situation though.
She's pretty hot.
But c'mon he's basically working for george lucas! Get it together man!
thats funny they say they've worked things out ,
but the audio came from mattbusch.com (http://mattbusch.com) ROTFL!

[Loren]

Dave Sim decided that all women were evil/stupid, including Jeff Smith's wife. Smith told Sim to shut up or he'd hit him. Years later, Sim declared that Smith was lying about this and challenged Smith to a boxing match. Sim's (female) secretary quit in disgust.

I'd never heard of all this before, but I found this Comics Journal story (http://www.tcj.com/234/n_sim.html) on the whole fiasco, as well as Sim's Open Letter to Jeff Smith from Cerebus #264 (http://www.timemachinego.com/linkmachinego/content/sim.html)

I will fly to Columbus on any date that you would care to name and I will give you three three-minute "rounds" to try to give me a "fat lip". I'm in a the light heavyweight class--on any given day between five and ten pounds lighter than a heavyweight. I would assume you are somewhere in that vicinity as well. I have ten-ounce gloves. Opinion is divided as to which sort of glove dish out the greater punishment: sixteen-ounce (just because they're heavier) or ten-ounce (because there's less "cushion"). If your opinion is that ten-ounce gloves won't do the job for you ("fat lip-wise"), let me know which weight you prefer and I'll pick up a pair. Or if you want to go all the way up to twenty-four ounce gloves I'm more than amenable. Likewise with headgear. I'm comfortable fighting without it. If you prefer headgear, just let me know.

I'll let you pick the venue and the time keeper and the referee and I'm more than willing to listen to any requirements you might have that I haven't covered here.

Over on his blog, Sim seems to have written on this matter as recently as two months ago (http://davesim.blogspot.com/2007/09/dave-sims-blogandmail-372-september.html).

[dingo]

Wow. Sim is a bona fide nut.

John Byrne seems pretty normal now.

[pariah-1972]

Hmmm Rob liefeld vs the other Image guys?
i read somewhere Gail Simone left marvel cause of editorial interference .. does this count?

[Wesley Dodds]

From Sim's blog:

in my new more aesthetic lifestyle

I think he means ascetic.

[pariah-1972]

Liefeld also got into a fight with some other dude (can't recall his name)over on newsarama it was pretty hilarious since they both got banned.

[Michael P]

i read somewhere Gail Simone left marvel cause of editorial interference .. does this count?

Not really, as the editor in question is long gone and there's no ill will between her and Marvel that I'm aware of.

And golly gosh, is this thread voyeuristic.

[mgs]

one: pretty much every creator vs. Crossgen
two: Eastman v. Laird (even though the guys stayed in bix together)

[Tobias March]

Yeah that Steve Niles thing was fucked up. Why Niles felt after stealing the dudes gf he should call up and be a dick made me even wonder. The ex-bf should have really grew a pair and gave Niles an ass kicking he deserved .

I don't know, LITG posted that recording a year ago and folk are still talking about it. Check out the bottom of Chud's 30 Days of Night review (http://www.chud.com/index.php?type=reviews&id=12214). So he did the guy a fair amount of damage. That interview here on CBR also mentioned it, with Niles 'setting the story straight'.

I just wish he'd stop delivering that stupid soundbyte on vampires not being scary anymore, example presented Buffy dating a vamp. As I recall one of the sequels to 30DoN also features humans getting it on with undead persons.

Alan Moore/Alan Davis
Kevin Smith/PAD

[Sir Tim Drake]

Here's an explanation:

http://pinoykomixbiz.blogspot.com/2005/11/tony-dezunigas-agency-fee.html

The short explanation is, Tony deZuniga was running a studio of Filipino artists who were working for DC. DC would pay the artists $35 or $50 per page, but Tony would take that money, pay the artists a small fraction of it, and keep the rest for himself. So basically, the claim is that he got rich by exploiting his fellow artists.

This allegation has never actually been proved and Tony denies it.

[Ivan Isaacs]

Liefeld also got into a fight with some other dude (can't recall his name)over on newsarama it was pretty hilarious since they both got banned.

Rags Morales?

[pariah-1972]

Rags Morales?Yes thats it !
i can't remember what it was about but man was that hilarious.

[rick]

Pretty much everyone vs Marvel Comics & Stan Lee over the return of Jack Kirby's artwork in 1986


Stan didn't work for Marvel directly in 1986.

You are thinking about Jim Shooter.

[rick]

Dave Sim decided that all women were evil/stupid, including Jeff Smith's wife.


That might be the sterotype of course, but it isn't Sims view at all.

Can you find me one place where Sim has ever called women either stupid or evil?

[rick]

The marriage breakup was in the 70s, so I'd say the latter.


The marriage break-up was in 1987 or 88.

[rick]

Wow. Sim is a bona fide nut.



Sim is a nut, no doubt about that.

But he is a nut whose views are continually misunderstood and misrepresented.


But for the record, it doesn't make him less crazy.

[dingo]

Sim is a nut, no doubt about that.

But he is a nut whose views are continually misunderstood and misrepresented.


But for the record, it doesn't make him less crazy.

That sounds very likely, but I was basing my view on the blog post.

[Wesley Dodds]

That might be the sterotype of course, but it isn't Sims view at all.

Can you find me one place where Sim has ever called women either stupid or evil?

Sure!

"Emotion, whatever the Female Void would have you believe, is not a more Exalted State than is Thought. In point of fact, I think Emotion is animalistic, serpent-brain stuff. Animals do not Think, but I am reasonably certain that they have Emotions. 'Eating this makes me Happy.' 'When my fur is all wet and I am cold, it makes me Sad." "Ooo! Puppies!' 'It makes me Excited to Chase the Ball!' Reason, as any husband can tell you, doesn't stand a chance in an argument with Emotion... this was the fundamental reason, I believe, that women were denied the vote for so long." -- Dave Sim

I hope that helps.

[rick]

Sure!

"Emotion, whatever the Female Void would have you believe, is not a more Exalted State than is Thought. In point of fact, I think Emotion is animalistic, serpent-brain stuff. Animals do not Think, but I am reasonably certain that they have Emotions. 'Eating this makes me Happy.' 'When my fur is all wet and I am cold, it makes me Sad." "Ooo! Puppies!' 'It makes me Excited to Chase the Ball!' Reason, as any husband can tell you, doesn't stand a chance in an argument with Emotion... this was the fundamental reason, I believe, that women were denied the vote for so long." -- Dave Sim

I hope that helps.


Sexist and rude, which is of course typical Sim, but he is not calling women either stupid or evil. He is saying women are more influenced by emotions then men and that this is a bad thing.

His point might be highly debatable, but it isn't a case of him calling women stupid or evil.

[Michael P]

Sexist and rude, which is of course typical Sim, but he is not calling women either stupid or evil. He is saying women are more influenced by emotions then men and that this is a bad thing.

His point might be highly debatable, but it isn't a case of him calling women stupid or evil.

He's equating them with dogs. I would say that counts as calling them stupid.

[Wesley Dodds]

Sexist and rude, which is of course typical Sim, but he is not calling women either stupid or evil. He is saying women are more influenced by emotions then men and that this is a bad thing.

His point might be highly debatable, but it isn't a case of him calling women stupid or evil.

Really?

"'Eating this makes me Happy.' 'When my fur is all wet and I am cold, it makes me Sad." "Ooo! Puppies!' 'It makes me Excited to Chase the Ball!'"

[rick]

He's equating them with dogs. I would say that counts as calling them stupid.


Sim is both rude and sexist and the way he makes his argument is highly offensive.

But he is not arguing that women are stupid or that they are evil.

He is clearly saying that women are more emotional then men and that this emotionalism over fact is a bad thing and not something that people with intelligence should do.

It might sound like I'm playing with semantics here, but with Sim, the semantics are everything.

[Spike-X]

He's equating them with dogs. I would say that counts as calling them stupid.
But is that what you think, or what you feel?

[literally exaggerated]

holy shit is Steve Niles a douche

[Josh S]

Nevermind.

[rick]

Really?

"'Eating this makes me Happy.' 'When my fur is all wet and I am cold, it makes me Sad." "Ooo! Puppies!' 'It makes me Excited to Chase the Ball!'"

By the way, where'd you come up with the quote so quickly from?

[Wesley Dodds]

By the way, where'd you come up with the quote so quickly from?

http://www.theabsolute.net/misogyny/sim.html

[pariah-1972]

I'm sorry but that quote is just plain hilarious.

[Ivan Isaacs]

Yes thats it !
i can't remember what it was about but man was that hilarious.

Liefeld was bashing Morales' art and then Morales' was bashing/owning Liefeld:
http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?p=4226994

And yes - it was quite hilarious. :D
But they are not banned (or are now unbanned?). To get banned at NR is a lot more difficult then here (or any other big board).

[pariah-1972]

Liefeld was bashing Morales' art and then Morales' was bashing/owning Liefeld:
http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?p=4226994

And yes - it was quite hilarious. :D
But they are not banned (or are now unbanned?). To get banned at NR is a lot more difficult then here (or any other big board).Well it wasn't that hard for me :o

but i'm back there which is weird cause there are just as many crazies over there but i like this place better cause it has more topics.
and he banned both of them but probably not permanently,
cause he immediately went back and unbanned Liefeld saying he was innocent when he was not
and a bunch of people complained that Liefeld was just as guilty as the other dude,but he never responded back which to me shows favoritism and bias but oh well.

[Reptisaurus!]

Stupid Ted Rall who sucks vs Art Spiegelman, Dirty Danny, all right-thinking people everywhere, and probably his mom.

[Reptisaurus!]

Also Jesus.

Our lord and savior HATES that little shit. Told me himself.

[Josh S]

Stupid Ted Rall who sucks vs Art Spiegelman, Dirty Danny, all right-thinking people everywhere, and probably his mom.

I just googled him. What a pecker.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Liefeld was bashing Morales' art and then Morales' was bashing/owning Liefeld:
http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?p=4226994

And yes - it was quite hilarious. :D
But they are not banned (or are now unbanned?). To get banned at NR is a lot more difficult then here (or any other big board).

I like Rags work a lot. But why post in huge letters . Its like he's trying to shout down Lefield . Plus why care.... its not like Lefield is such a huge name anymore.

[Josh S]

I like Rags work a lot. But why post in huge letters . Its like he's trying to shout down Lefield . Plus why care.... its not like Lefield is such a huge name anymore.

I thought his point was that fans of Leifeld may completely write off Rags based on the fact that a creator they do like doesn't like his work. It makes sense, but he certainly didn't look good in that exchange.

[pariah-1972]

I like Rags work a lot. But why post in huge letters . Its like he's trying to shout down Lefield . Plus why care.... its not like Lefield is such a huge name anymore.Didn't someone mention rags or didn't he say that Liefeld talked about him some other time?
i wish we had more creator beefs like that online it's highly entertaining.:evilsmile

[howyadoin]

Wow. Sim is a bona fide nut.

John Byrne seems pretty normal now.Byrne certainly never said that breast cancer was God's judgement on women for getting jobs.

[Josh S]

Byrne certainly never said that breast cancer was God's judgement on women for getting jobs.

Sim seems like a helluva guy. I've never read Cerebrus, but I always thought it might be interesting. Now, I'm wondering if I'd be able to read it without seeing all sorts of sexist bullshit that's not really there just because I "knew" the man before the art.

[howyadoin]

Sim seems like a helluva guy. I've never read Cerebrus, but I always thought it might be interesting. Now, I'm wondering if I'd be able to read it without seeing all sorts of sexist bullshit that's not really there just because I "knew" the man before the art.Yeah, that's a tough one. I'm glad I read it over the years without seeing that side of him till the later issues.

[Spike-X]

The first half of Cerebus, at least, is still one of the finest examples ever of what the comicbook medium is capable of.

He didn't go completely round the twist until the second half.

[howyadoin]

The first half of Cerebus, at least, is still one of the finest examples ever of what the comicbook medium is capable of.

He didn't go completely round the twist until the second half.Yeah, it's a real shame, I think. The guy is ludicrously talented.

[Josh S]

The first half of Cerebus, at least, is still one of the finest examples ever of what the comicbook medium is capable of.

He didn't go completely round the twist until the second half.


Yeah, I've heard that. I'm just wondering if I'll be see something that isn't there. I guess the only way to know for sure is to give it a chance.

[Paradox]

Ivan Isaacs has me shocked:

Liefeld was bashing Morales' art and then Morales' was bashing/owning Liefeld:
http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?p=4226994

Leifeld...bashed RAGS' artwork???? Leifeld? Man that's a whole bucketload of nerve. Rags can draw circles around that putz.

EDIT: Rags: "I'm sure you'd lop off your right hand at the wrist to be me. If you knew what a wrist looks like." BWAH-HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[Paradox]

pariah-1972 should take care:

but i'm back there which is weird cause there are just as many crazies over there but i like this place better cause it has more topics.

Actually there are far FAR more crazies over there.

[mattx110]

Liefeld was bashing Morales' art and then Morales' was bashing/owning Liefeld:
http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?p=4226994

And yes - it was quite hilarious. :D
But they are not banned (or are now unbanned?). To get banned at NR is a lot more difficult then here (or any other big board).

Wow. I read through a couple pages. I stopped when the one guy started giving a definition for "troll" and described himself perfectly.

Howyadoin. You can throw your one-liner joke/insults calling me an irrational stupid crazy all you want. Compared to that place, you're like an internet-massage. A little perspective goes a long way.

I like the fake creator feuds, where it's like how the Marvel/DC thing used to be("Our favorite artist has gone over to the competition, hopefully they'll regain their senses and return home to Marve" type stuff). There's also a massive difference between "telling it like it is" and "being an argumentative jerk". Erik Larsen might cross that line once in a while, but he's also someone that clearly loves comics entirely, and most of his complaints against creators boil down to "Why don't you make more comics?". So it balances.

I think Marco Dujerivic (I know this is probably not his name properly, but I don't own any books he's done, so I can't check, sorry) has a feud going with Comics in general. And a number of creators seem to hate a constant fight with deadlines.

[pariah-1972]

Howya insulted someone?

[mattx110]

Actually there are far FAR more crazies over there.

They have exclusive trolls. Sometimes someone is a jerk here, but they aren't 100% constant "let's look at the evidence through a new lens, you suck and I don't care about reality so rather than look at the facts, I'm calling you stupid!" I can't think of anyone here like that.

[thehod]

Stan didn't work for Marvel directly in 1986.

You are thinking about Jim Shooter.

As I read it in Gerrard Jones and Will Jacobs "The Comic Book Heroes" throughout 1986 Jack Kirby was in a bit of a battle with Marvel over the return of his original art. In February of that year, The Comics Journal reported on the issue and beat the drum for action against Marvel Comics as a corperate entity and Jim Shooter in particular as an individual.

Apparently the response was staggering. Petitions were flying around the convention circuit, Frank Miller got involved (no suprise there) and wrote a passionate article in the Journal reminding fans of Kirby's 50 plus years of service to Marvel and comics. The whole situation was being whipped up into a David v Goliath stye battle. The problem being that Marvel were in a lawsuit with Kirby over compensation for the work and characters he'd created whilst under a work for hire contract, and the return of any artwork by Marvel to Kirby would look like an admission of ownership.

Then DC came out and stated that the artwork had always been the rightful property of the artists, and the heat on Marvel grew again. When it tried to make the same move as DC, but still make artists sign releases that stated Marvel should still retain ownership even people still working for Marvel came out in favour of Jack.

At the San Diego comic con in August of 1986 Shooter and Kirby got into a shouting match so heated that Mark Evanier had to step between them and later at a panel that was discussing the issue a member of the audience asked Gary Groth how they could approach Marvel representitives over the issue, he replied "With two by fours"

As Jones and Jacobs tells it the heat continued to grow until in early 87 Marvel and Shooter caved and returned Kirbys artwork, but most of it was missing, Jack got back about 10% of the stuff he drew, and in return he had to give up any claim to copyright.

Now I've paraphrased most of that from "The Comic Book Heroes" and a few other sources, and I've probably left vast swathes of the story out, but it always seemed to me that it was less about Shooter and Kirby as individuals (although they did get into a ruck at San Diego) and more about the corperate entitiy that was Marvel against the writers and artists that had worked for it, in particular Jack Kirby. I think Shooter gets targeted (unfairly sometimes) over this issue because he was given little choice by his bosses and in other issues he was acting like a prat.

Others may know more about this issue than I do, and it'd be interesting to hear any more information on it.

[StoneGold]

As I read it in Gerrard Jones and Will Jacobs "The Comic Book Heroes" throughout 1986 Jack Kirby was in a bit of a battle with Marvel over the return of his original art. In February of that year, The Comics Journal reported on the issue and beat the drum for action against Marvel Comics as a corperate entity and Jim Shooter in particular as an individual.


If memory recalls, there was some heat between various members of the creator community and Gerry Jones over some of the updates in the more recent printing of Comic Book Heroes. But I really can't remember the specifics, just that he pissed some people off.


I'd imagine there would have been some tension at some point between Keiron Dwyer and John Byrne, when Byrne divorced his mom, but that all stayed private. And purely my speculation. In other words, I'm making shit up. But it sounds logical, doesn't it?

[andy circus]

Also I remembered this one from mike hoffmans blog where he
had some sort of a meltdown with frazetta and every other artist.
He's really influenced by frazetta so thats why its extra strange,
and he targets others that are influenced by frazetta.
He has two years of ranting blogs, (here's the link) (http://www.mikehoffman.com/weblogoct06.html) but the weblog link
is hard to see up top. I spent two days looking through them saying
to myself "frazetta's going to have this guy 'whacked'." :) <<<joke
I think he's trying to be funny, but people on the frazetta forum (http://jandjcyberauctions.com/frazettaforum/viewtopic.php?t=71&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=45&sid=e61e259dbd37cd34c6d7a4114baf0e60)
want to lynch him. They're all pretty crazy there though.
In some respects I don't blame him, as he was getting heckled
for being a brazen frazetta imitator, but there's no need to drag
frazetta into all this mudslinging.

here's a letter (http://www.villagevoice.com/news/9931,artlets,7437,1.html) Harvey Pekar wrote about art spiegleman, and Ted Rall...
This kind of confrontational internet stuff is everywhere!
It was a letter to the village voice so thats maybe even worse than some
hidden little forum topic!

[pariah-1972]

They have exclusive trolls. Sometimes someone is a jerk here, but they aren't 100% constant "let's look at the evidence through a new lens, you suck and I don't care about reality so rather than look at the facts, I'm calling you stupid!" I can't think of anyone here like that.To be perfectly honest there are trolls just about everywhere you go nowadays, it's just a fact of life really.
theres a couple of people here who i would consider being what you described.

[rick]

As I read it in Gerrard Jones and Will Jacobs "The Comic Book Heroes" throughout 1986 Jack Kirby was in a bit of a battle with Marvel over the return of his original art. In February of that year, The Comics Journal reported on the issue and beat the drum for action against Marvel Comics as a corperate entity and Jim Shooter in particular as an individual.

Apparently the response was staggering. Petitions were flying around the convention circuit, Frank Miller got involved (no suprise there) and wrote a passionate article in the Journal reminding fans of Kirby's 50 plus years of service to Marvel and comics. The whole situation was being whipped up into a David v Goliath stye battle. The problem being that Marvel were in a lawsuit with Kirby over compensation for the work and characters he'd created whilst under a work for hire contract, and the return of any artwork by Marvel to Kirby would look like an admission of ownership.

Then DC came out and stated that the artwork had always been the rightful property of the artists, and the heat on Marvel grew again. When it tried to make the same move as DC, but still make artists sign releases that stated Marvel should still retain ownership even people still working for Marvel came out in favour of Jack.

At the San Diego comic con in August of 1986 Shooter and Kirby got into a shouting match so heated that Mark Evanier had to step between them and later at a panel that was discussing the issue a member of the audience asked Gary Groth how they could approach Marvel representitives over the issue, he replied "With two by fours"

As Jones and Jacobs tells it the heat continued to grow until in early 87 Marvel and Shooter caved and returned Kirbys artwork, but most of it was missing, Jack got back about 10% of the stuff he drew, and in return he had to give up any claim to copyright.

Now I've paraphrased most of that from "The Comic Book Heroes" and a few other sources, and I've probably left vast swathes of the story out, but it always seemed to me that it was less about Shooter and Kirby as individuals (although they did get into a ruck at San Diego) and more about the corperate entitiy that was Marvel against the writers and artists that had worked for it, in particular Jack Kirby. I think Shooter gets targeted (unfairly sometimes) over this issue because he was given little choice by his bosses and in other issues he was acting like a prat.

Others may know more about this issue than I do, and it'd be interesting to hear any more information on it.


A couple of basic facts.

For Kirby to lose his cool in public was pretty amazing. In my dealings with him, he was always nothing but polite about Marvel and the people working there. It was normally Roz who would be the angry one. So Shooter had to really have pushed the wrong buttons that day.

Also, at no time did Kirby ever sue Marvel over the ownership of the characters he created for Marvel.

The basic situation is that Kirby was more then willing to sign the same release for his artwork that every other Marvel artist had to sign to recover their original art. However in Kirby’s case Marvel wanted him to sign a large extended document granting Marvel all ownership of the characters created by Kirby in perpetuity, and without any options for their return if the law ever changed.

Kirby refused to sign it and that’s when the “war” began.

[rick]

Stupid Ted Rall who sucks vs Art Spiegelman, Dirty Danny, all right-thinking people everywhere, and probably his mom.

I read Ralls infamous overview of Spiegelman's career and I actually pretty much agreed with every word of it.

I also highly recommend reading Harvey Pekars supportive response to Ralls article as well.


In fact, I just so happen to have the links right here....

The King of Comics (http://www.villagevoice.com/news/9930,rall,7298,1.html)

About a third of the way down the page (http://www.villagevoice.com/news/9931,artlets,7437,1.html)

[Spike-X]

As I read it in Gerrard Jones and Will Jacobs "The Comic Book Heroes" throughout 1986 Jack Kirby was in a bit of a battle with Marvel over the return of his original art. In February of that year, The Comics Journal reported on the issue and beat the drum for action against Marvel Comics as a corperate entity and Jim Shooter in particular as an individual.

Apparently the response was staggering. Petitions were flying around the convention circuit, Frank Miller got involved (no suprise there) and wrote a passionate article in the Journal reminding fans of Kirby's 50 plus years of service to Marvel and comics. The whole situation was being whipped up into a David v Goliath stye battle. The problem being that Marvel were in a lawsuit with Kirby over compensation for the work and characters he'd created whilst under a work for hire contract, and the return of any artwork by Marvel to Kirby would look like an admission of ownership.

Then DC came out and stated that the artwork had always been the rightful property of the artists, and the heat on Marvel grew again. When it tried to make the same move as DC, but still make artists sign releases that stated Marvel should still retain ownership even people still working for Marvel came out in favour of Jack.

At the San Diego comic con in August of 1986 Shooter and Kirby got into a shouting match so heated that Mark Evanier had to step between them and later at a panel that was discussing the issue a member of the audience asked Gary Groth how they could approach Marvel representitives over the issue, he replied "With two by fours"

As Jones and Jacobs tells it the heat continued to grow until in early 87 Marvel and Shooter caved and returned Kirbys artwork, but most of it was missing, Jack got back about 10% of the stuff he drew, and in return he had to give up any claim to copyright.

Now I've paraphrased most of that from "The Comic Book Heroes" and a few other sources, and I've probably left vast swathes of the story out, but it always seemed to me that it was less about Shooter and Kirby as individuals (although they did get into a ruck at San Diego) and more about the corperate entitiy that was Marvel against the writers and artists that had worked for it, in particular Jack Kirby. I think Shooter gets targeted (unfairly sometimes) over this issue because he was given little choice by his bosses and in other issues he was acting like a prat.

Others may know more about this issue than I do, and it'd be interesting to hear any more information on it.
There was also Shooter's insipid "What Would Peter Parker Do?" editorial one month.

[thehod]

A couple of basic facts.

For Kirby to lose his cool in public was pretty amazing. In my dealings with him, he was always nothing but polite about Marvel and the people working there. It was normally Roz who would be the angry one. So Shooter had to really have pushed the wrong buttons that day.

Also, at no time did Kirby ever sue Marvel over the ownership of the characters he created for Marvel.

The basic situation is that Kirby was more then willing to sign the same release for his artwork that every other Marvel artist had to sign to recover their original art. However in Kirby’s case Marvel wanted him to sign a large extended document granting Marvel all ownership of the characters created by Kirby in perpetuity, and without any options for their return if the law ever changed.

Kirby refused to sign it and that’s when the “war” began.

Thanks for the info rick. As I said, most of my knowledge of the what happend mostly comes from the one source, which, as Stonegold says, may very well be flawed, but it is a part of comic history that both interested and surprised me.

From what I've read about Jack Kirby, he always came across as a placid sort of guy, and as you said, for him to get riled up, Jim Shooter must have really been pushing the wrong buttons.

What is interesting about the events though are how the "battle lines" were drawn between the company and the artists, and journalists involved.

[StoneGold]

Again, random assumption, but I'm going to guess every freelancer who was having trouble getting work and Larry Leiber.

[rick]

Again, random assumption, but I'm going to guess every freelancer who was having trouble getting work and Larry Leiber.


Marvel was sort of a family business back when Goodman owned it.

[StoneGold]

Marvel was sort of a family business back when Goodman owned it.

Doesn't mean the other guys aren't going to be pissed at that. But again, remember, I'm just making random assumptions. Making shit up.

[zuludelta]

Six pages into this thread and no mention of Pat Lee.

Pat Lee/most every artist he skipped out on paying

I worked briefly with a guy who did some colouring for DreamWave and he's still waiting for his cheque (well, not really, he jsut gets a good laugh out of the whole entrepreneurial fantasy Pat Lee seems to have built around himself these days).

[Reptisaurus!]

I read Ralls infamous overview of Spiegelman's career and I actually pretty much agreed with every word of it.

I also highly recommend reading Harvey Pekars supportive response to Ralls article as well.


In fact, I just so happen to have the links right here....

The King of Comics (http://www.villagevoice.com/news/9930,rall,7298,1.html)

About a third of the way down the page (http://www.villagevoice.com/news/9931,artlets,7437,1.html)

Yeah, I've read most of that before.

Well, y'know, as much Ted Rall as I can take in one sitting and as much bad writing as I can take in one sitting.

I REALLY do not like that guy.

I'm in no position to say he's wrong, mind. I certainly can't judge "The Atmosphere in New York Cities Cartooning Circles." Being the suspicious bastard that I am, I'd guess that all of this is sour grapes based on Spiegelman's support of Hellman against Rall's stupid fucking bullshit fucking nuisance lawsuit.

[Kid Omega]

Yeah, I've read most of that before.

Well, y'know, as much Ted Rall as I can take in one sitting and as much bad writing as I can take in one sitting.

I REALLY do not like that guy.

I'm in no position to say he's wrong, mind. I certainly can't judge "The Atmosphere in New York Cities Cartooning Circles." Being the suspicious bastard that I am, I'd guess that all of this is sour grapes based on Spiegelman's support of Hellman against Rall's stupid fucking bullshit fucking nuisance lawsuit.

ding ding ding!

[howyadoin]

ding ding ding!I got a kick out of Rall's insinuation that Spiegleman's work as an editor means he's not a real cartoonist, or something.

[Kid Omega]

I got a kick out of Rall's insinuation that Spiegleman's work as an editor means he's not a real cartoonist, or something.

I like the implied conceit that it is wrong for an editor to only hire people whose work he thinks is good.

HUH WHA ?!?!?!

[SUPERECWFAN1]

A couple of basic facts.

For Kirby to lose his cool in public was pretty amazing. In my dealings with him, he was always nothing but polite about Marvel and the people working there. It was normally Roz who would be the angry one. So Shooter had to really have pushed the wrong buttons that day.

Also, at no time did Kirby ever sue Marvel over the ownership of the characters he created for Marvel.

The basic situation is that Kirby was more then willing to sign the same release for his artwork that every other Marvel artist had to sign to recover their original art. However in Kirby’s case Marvel wanted him to sign a large extended document granting Marvel all ownership of the characters created by Kirby in perpetuity, and without any options for their return if the law ever changed.

Kirby refused to sign it and that’s when the “war” began.

If the timeline is right then in 1986 it was Shooter's near the end run of Marvel. That there was tons of heat on him (Christopher Priest gave a good detail on it telling a story where Shooter got him a new chair and everyone acted like it was a huge deal ala Newsradio) and pressures with the company being sold and the whole Kirby thing.

[Reptisaurus!]

I got a kick out of Rall's insinuation that Spiegleman's work as an editor means he's not a real cartoonist, or something.

My favorite part is where he pretends that Charles Schultz was dead and then images that Speigelman wrote an obituary and then gets all pissy about it.

[mauisunset]

Hey guys,

This is the first thread I've ever started that went this long. Thanks all. All of this has been really interesting. Hope the next one isn't just about shit-talking these guys that we all actually love.

Wouldn't want to be like Rich Johnston or anything...

(Actually really would)

Shit!!!

Did it again.




Seriously, poor Rich, he's gotta have a sqaud of ex-marines on 12 hour shifts. How does that guy get comics published?

[Bouncing Boy]

Mark Evanier vs. Sergio Aragones (just kidding)

You just scared the crap out of me.

Mike Parobeck vs. diabetes


And you just made me cry.

[StoneGold]

Wasn't there a beef between Mark Waid and Alex Ross over Kingdom Come?

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Wasn't there a beef between Mark Waid and Alex Ross over Kingdom Come?

I think so. I believe Ross felt Waid took too much credit for the series. Its been a long time but I remember reading that somewhere...

[Wesley Dodds]

They disagreed over the sequel. Ross (with Gene Ha) was interested in the mythology of heroes. Waid wanted to do Kingdom.

And history proved him right.

[Ed Cunard]

Peter David vs. Joe Rice, two hookers, and a cosmic treadmill.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

They disagreed over the sequel. Ross (with Gene Ha) was interested in the mythology of heroes. Waid wanted to do Kingdom.

And history proved him right.

I remember at one point DC annouced a monthly series based on Kingdom Come. This was in the 1990's...

[Typo Lad]

I remember at one point DC annouced a monthly series based on Kingdom Come. This was in the 1990's...
The original Kingdom series, as promoted anyway, was going to be Magog's entry into the DCU pantheon and slowly add other bits from the series into mainstream DCU.

As I recall, anyway.

[pariah-1972]

Paul Levitz and Brian Bendis over the Batman/Daredevil crossover that apparently never happened.

[king mob]

Gary Groth vs. Harlan Ellison vs. Michael Fleisher

Still my all time favourite comic book bust up. That issue of the Comics Journal where they deal with Shooter's testimony is just wonderful.

[king mob]

Alan Moore/Alan Davis

Add to that Moore/Steve Bissette, Moore/DC, Moore/Marvel US and UK, Moore/Jim Lee, Moore/Joel Silver, Moore/2000AD, Moore/Dez Skinn (see also Dez/Cat Yronwode) and Moore/Grant Morrison.

I think that covers all of Alan Moore's major disputes.




Kevin Smith/PAD

what's that about? I've not heard of anything between them.

[Michael P]

what's that about? I've not heard of anything between them.

I remember Smith putting some thinly-veiled digs on PAD's comics in one of the Clerks one-shots, but I don't know if anything ever came of it.

[rick]

Still my all time favourite comic book bust up. That issue of the Comics Journal where they deal with Shooter's testimony is just wonderful.


Certanly one of their best covers ever.

[king mob]

Certanly one of their best covers ever.

It's on Wikipedia.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/50/Tcj-115.png/444px-Tcj-115.png

[Guapo Méndez]

I remember Smith putting some thinly-veiled digs on PAD's comics in one of the Clerks one-shots, but I don't know if anything ever came of it.

The Jay and Silent Bob one had very clear digs at Warren Ellis (the We're Easily Fooled Forum").

[StoneGold]

The Jay and Silent Bob one had very clear digs at Warren Ellis (the We're Easily Fooled Forum").

There was apparently an Alex Ross/Kevin Smith feud over saying that Stan Lee created Marvel in Mallrats. Although really, for a mainstream movie, how the hell are you going to explain a dead Jack Kirby and a reclusive Steve Ditko?

[Guapo Méndez]

It's not a comic book feud, but it's a very amusing story. Kevin Smith narrating how Jon Peters wanted him to pitch the Superman Returns movie.

It's in Youtube.

[Gingold]

Didn't Mark Waid and Scott Lobdell have a feud going a few years back?

[Michael P]

Didn't Mark Waid and Scott Lobdell have a feud going a few years back?

I dunno about feud, but Lobdell's the reason Waid's run on X-Men was only four issues.

[Guapo Méndez]

I dunno about feud, but Lobdell's the reason Waid's run on X-Men was only four issues.

I remember something about "Lobdell deserving pus and boils."

[MartinRedmond]

Liefeld was bashing Morales' art and then Morales' was bashing/owning Liefeld:
http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?p=4226994

And yes - it was quite hilarious. :D
But they are not banned (or are now unbanned?). To get banned at NR is a lot more difficult then here (or any other big board).

I read that it was pretty cool. I got banned from newsarama after I told a poster to start his car and suck the fumes from the exhaust pipe.

[MartinRedmond]

I think Marco Dujerivic (I know this is probably not his name properly, but I don't own any books he's done, so I can't check, sorry) has a feud going with Comics in general. And a number of creators seem to hate a constant fight with deadlines.

His covers are so awesome. It's too bad he can't do an actual comic so we have something more memorable to keep, I'd buy it.

[Typo Lad]

I read that it was pretty cool. I got banned from newsarama after I told a poster to start his car and suck the fumes from the exhaust pipe.
Way to make friends and influence people.

[Michael P]

Liefeld was bashing Morales' art and then Morales' was bashing/owning Liefeld:
http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?p=4226994

And yes - it was quite hilarious. :D
But they are not banned (or are now unbanned?). To get banned at NR is a lot more difficult then here (or any other big board).

Odd that they got banned, given they were just keeping with the tone established by the Newsarama regulars.

Jesus, eight years and AnthonyL is still a tool.

[Justin Davis]

Wow. Sim is a bona fide nut.

I can only respond with this: Duh.

In Dave Sim's list of "Fifteen Impossible Things to Believe Before Breakfast That Make You a Good Feminist," the only one I agree with is number eight.

"It is important to have lower physical standards for women firepersons and women policepersons so that, one day, half of all firepersons and policepersons will be women, thus more effectively protecting the safety of the public."

That is, I agree with the sarcastic undertone of it.

What's most awesome is this quote further down in his Jeff Smith rant:

"He ruins my career and incites everyone to treat me as a pariah and thirteen years later he doesn't have 'any bad feelings' about me. No, I'm sure he doesn't. What would he have left to feel bad about now that I have been permanently exiled from the comic-book field and he has assassinated my character with his Tall Tales all over the world?"

Jeff Smith ruined his career? I knew about all the asinine comments Sim made about women and other creators long before I knew about any conflict with Jeff Smith.

[MartinRedmond]

Way to make friends and influence people.

He was masturbating to the Heroes for Hire cover.

[Tobias March]

what's that about? I've not heard of anything between them.

PAD and Kevin Smith? I just recall some passive aggressive sniping a few years back. I just did a search and found this (http://peterdavid.malibulist.com/archives/004625.html) which refers to some digs Smith aimed at PAD in a trade introduction.

Usually such a work [that involves religious themes] is cited as “too controversial.” “Controversial,” as we all know, is often a euphemism for “interesting and intelligent.” Although the pages of PREACHER are filled with avant garde takes on the nature of God and the questionable manner in which religion is followed by the masses without thought (not to mention renderings of brutal bloodletting and graphic, often disturbingly funny violence), this is not a book full of sensationalistic crap writing or drawing. To me, sensationalistic crap writing is lopping off the hand of a time-honored character to give him a “new direction,” and sensationalistic crap drawing is page after page of uber-nimrods penned with little regard for proper proportions, set against background-deficient splash pages.

So there you have it...pretty weak and watery stuff.

[dupersuper]

Add to that Moore/Steve Bissette, Moore/DC, Moore/Marvel US and UK, Moore/Jim Lee, Moore/Joel Silver, Moore/2000AD, Moore/Dez Skinn (see also Dez/Cat Yronwode) and Moore/Grant Morrison.



What happened with Moore/Morrison?

[Tobias March]

Morrison took the piss out of him in person by all accounts. Accused him of mangling magick/comics or something.

[andy circus]

The Dave Sim thing sounded more like a character joke,
as he signed it with some weird 'character-ish' name.
Wendel Van Hofanmien or something.
He probably watched too much 3's company in the 70's or something,
and the ladies have come a long way since then regarding joking around.
I think that after everyone pounced on him,
he was probably crazy though.
The publisher of the Onion has acquired an orphan girl!
[edit] I just read the dave sim misogyny (http://www.theabsolute.net/misogyny/sim.html) page and I think its a
weird character study or something. It seems like a Steven King character,
although there's no explanation.
[edit] I guess he's thought a little too much about all this stuff, the weirdo.

[Reptisaurus!]

The Dave Sim thing sounded more like a character joke,
as he signed it with some weird 'character-ish' name.


It makes sense in context.

Well, y'know. "Sense" for a given definition.

You know what was really good? The first half of Reads. Some great stuff there.

[Wesley Dodds]

The Dave Sim thing sounded more like a character joke,
as he signed it with some weird 'character-ish' name.
Wendel Van Hofanmien or something.
He probably watched too much 3's company in the 70's or something,
and the ladies have come a long way since then regarding joking around.
I think that after everyone pounced on him,
I think he probably was crazy though.
The publisher of the Onion has acquired an orphan girl!

Basically, the essay was at the end of Reads, a Cerebus arc with (uneven is the polite description) text sections about a writer who wants to make art but ends up writing popular trash. But it does reflect Sim's real views; he's expanded on them at length since them, in and out of Cerebus.

Basically, Sim read the Bible & the Koran for a story in Cerebus, invented his own religion and then discovered that if he left his penis alone it would leave him alone. Now we're all just waiting to find out what sexual kink motivated his trip into right-wing la-la land. My money's on cross-dressing.

[StoneGold]

Then there was the time Sal Buscema stabbed Jack Kirby in the shoulder with a pair of scissors.

[Magneto_X]

It's not a comic book feud, but it's a very amusing story. Kevin Smith narrating how Jon Peters wanted him to pitch the Superman Returns movie.

It's in Youtube.

I read about that.

It would make a great parody ala Scary Movie.

[Reptisaurus!]

(uneven is the polite description)

*Snicker*

Good call.

[Sir Tim Drake]

Then there was the time Sal Buscema stabbed Jack Kirby in the shoulder with a pair of scissors.

What, really?

[Justin Davis]

What, really?

Did you know the word gullible is not in the dictionary?

[StoneGold]

What, really?

You just made my day.

[andy circus]

I googled 'Sal Buscema stabbed Jack Kirby'.
I secretly hoped marvel had some sort of 'prison'
mentality back in the 70's.
"you're trying to steal my book from me!" type of scenario.
That was a pretty exciting 'google loading' wait though.
I know there have been a few stabbings and 'snap kicks'
over at the image studios!
Never work in a little studio with 30 other artists...
Cabin fever, scourge of the 1800's.
Eyeball herpes, scourge of the elderly.

[StoneGold]

I googled 'Sal Buscema stabbed Jack Kirby'.
I secretly hoped marvel had some sort of 'prison'
mentality back in the 70's.
"you're trying to steal my book from me!" type of scenario.
That was a pretty exciting 'google loading' wait though.
I know there have been a few stabbings and 'snap kicks'
over at the image studios!
Never work in a little studio with 30 other artists...
Cabin fever, scourge of the 1800's.
Eyeball herpes, scourge of the elderly.

Sadly, the Bullpen was more Stan-created mythology than fact.






Unless anyone wants to argue that it was actually Ditko who created the Bullpen, and Stan's been taking credit for it for decades.

[rick]

Unless anyone wants to argue that it was actually Ditko who created the Bullpen, and Stan's been taking credit for it for decades.


Well look at how tiny the lettering was in the bullpen pages.


That's a pure Ditkoism if there ever was one. :)

[Paradox]

Tobias March gives me a grin:

Morrison took the piss out of him in person by all accounts. Accused him of mangling magick/comics or something.

Why I am TOTALLY shocked! :p

Wish I could have seen that.

EDIT: Wait...I read that wrong. If anything, it should be the other way around.

[Paradox]

Justin Davis makes me scowl:

Did you know the word gullible is not in the dictionary?

I hate that joke. It doesn't show gullibility, just a need to fact check before correcting someone. :evilangry

Yes, sort of got caught by it recently. "No! You're full of crap and I'll prove it" isn't being gullible.

[Kid Omega]

I read that it was pretty cool. I got banned from newsarama after I told a poster to start his car and suck the fumes from the exhaust pipe.

Wow.

Somehow that comes as no surprise.

[king mob]

Morrison took the piss out of him in person by all accounts. Accused him of mangling magick/comics or something.


Told him he was a old hippy playing with magic. Depending on who tells the story Morrison was taking the piss or being a twat. If I remember right, it goes back to an interview with Morrison & Mark Millar that appeared in The Scotsman (I think) when they were doing Big Dave in 2000AD.

[Sir Tim Drake]

Did you know the word gullible is not in the dictionary?

*looks it up* Yes it is, you liar.