The Celestials!!!

[Sabaition]

Three things bug me that I wonder if they've touched on.

1: The Beyonder went to a Planet that the Celestials were standing on. Started yelling for them to talk to him. When they all suddenly jumpped at him. He screams "I KNEW IT!!!", did a shock wave type blast and flew away.

2: Then while traveling with Thor. The FF pass through a dimension FILLED with Celestials just floating about. Reed was amazed and mention he wish he could study it, because it might be where they come from.

3: While in their body, they apeared to contain a Universe looking enviorment. They are more powerful then any other cosmic being. Using Planets as weapons with just the point of a finger, were the only ones not sent into the air from Warlocks attack during his Guantlet trial and in one case have used their own body to contain a universe.

Have they done anything to connect these things and explain anything about them... AN WHY WERE THEY JUST STANDING ON A PLANET... With gigantics weapons too?

[Harold of the Rocks]

I'm not familiar with the appearances you cite... but I did read Thor's "Eternals Saga" a few times now.

"Just Standing On A Planet" is what they do, I thought.

Y'know, passing the decades before passing judgement. Which makes me think for all their might, they must be terrible timekeepers or incredibly indecisive... they need to show up 50 years ahead of time to meet a deadline? If they're so damn powerful, why not show up seconds before needed? Or, if it takes 50 years to make a decision about a planets' fate... well, get a checklist or scorecard made up... something to ease the decision making process. I'd hate to go clothes shopping with them!

"Does this make me look fat?"
"I like the color on this one, but is it me?"
"You sure this doesn't make me look fat?"

Repeat. For decades...

[Will.S]

Three things bug me that I wonder if they've touched on.

1: The Beyonder went to a Planet that the Celestials were standing on. Started yelling for them to talk to him. When they all suddenly jumpped at him. He screams "I KNEW IT!!!", did a shock wave type blast and flew away.

2: Then while traveling with Thor. The FF pass through a dimension FILLED with Celestials just floating about. Reed was amazed and mention he wish he could study it, because it might be where they come from.

3: While in their body, they apeared to contain a Universe looking enviorment. They are more powerful then any other cosmic being. Using Planets as weapons with just the point of a finger, were the only ones not sent into the air from Warlocks attack during his Guantlet trial and in one case have used their own body to contain a universe.

Have they done anything to connect these things and explain anything about them... AN WHY WERE THEY JUST STANDING ON A PLANET... With gigantics weapons too?
While I know the reference point to #3 being the Infinity Gauntlet (and yes the Celestials did some craaazy stuff with planets there), can you give me some reference as to what issues the first two happened in?

[Sabaition]

1st referance happened in the Secret Wars 2 books. After tracling down the Celestial to check/test something. He was screaming he would destroy the universe if they didn't answer him. Says something else and suddenly (for th efirst time I recall) the Celestials literally lundged at him. Leading the the "I KNEW IT!!!" which has never been explaine what he knew. It was 4-5 of them I think. I've been told 1 of 2 things is believed to be why the Celestials lost.

1: He was actually capable of beating the Celestials, 4 of them none the least and 2: It's suggested the Celestials wanted to observe his actions and faked their defeat so he would move on. An that they would confront him IF he actually was about to destroy the universe.

I found it hard to except the first only because they didn't attack with their usual THROWING PLANETS at the proble first approach, lol. Love those guys. Although he idd own the Big G (Galactus)

An the FF issue I'll get for ya. It's in my FF collect which if big. It was Thor's first fight (Real Thor) with Gladiator when the FF were using a machine to help them move insane fast. The cover has Thor and Gladiator fighting on it.

[Madison Carter]

Three things bug me that I wonder if they've touched on.

1: The Beyonder went to a Planet that the Celestials were standing on. Started yelling for them to talk to him. When they all suddenly jumpped at him. He screams "I KNEW IT!!!", did a shock wave type blast and flew away.

This was later retconned (after Beyonder became Kosmos), and it was revealed that the whole thing was basically an illusion performed by the Celestials so that he'd leave them alone. At least his defeat of them was, though it's implied the world they were on wasn't what it seemed either.

You want to go find Fantastic Four Annual #26, which has a back-up story with Kosmos and Kubik that not only reveals this, but has the two exploring/discussing the basic nature/origins of the Celestials.

[Will.S]

Speaking of the Beyonder, I'm kind of having a hard time gaging Beyonder's power these days compared to beings like Galactus and the Celestials.

The main reason being the retcon with him becoming an incomplete cosmic cube and whatnot. The first Secret Wars left him really vague in appearance and his powers were noticeably very great but then Secret Wars II ruined the vagueness of him and then it sort of goes downhill into this mish mosh of stuff that still doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

[Madison Carter]

Speaking of the Beyonder, I'm kind of having a hard time gaging Beyonder's power these days compared to beings like Galactus and the Celestials.

The main reason being the retcon with him becoming an incomplete cosmic cube and whatnot. The first Secret Wars left him really vague in appearance and his powers were noticeably very great but then Secret Wars II ruined the vagueness of him and then it sort of goes downhill into this mish mosh of stuff that still doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Numerous retcons will do that. Dismissing the Illuminati story, or at least setting it aside, the retcons in and of themselves are fairly fluid, if not entirely likeable. He's definitely below the Celestials in terms of true power, or at least it is believed he is. Though he can pretty much do whatever he wants regarding reality, the Celestials may be from beyond (no pun intended) reality, and are outside of him.

As for Galactus, who knows. Has anyone ever tried using a Cosmic Cube on him? I'm imagine that as far along in his knowledge of how the multiverse works now, that the Beyonder, even if he was more powerful than Galactus, wouldn't test that, as he knows G is a vital component to existence and might not be willing to find out what happens if there is no Galactus. That's why he didn't screw around with resetting Doom back to the proper timeline in Fantastic Four #288, because he wasn't sure how mucking with time would affect his own existence.

[Arilou]

The celstials aren't the most powerful beings around. Even ignoring the Living Tribunal I'd still put Eternity above them.

The implication in IG was that the entire "Cosmic Brigade" was just the vanguard for Eternity (and Eternity was of course just a distraction)

There's also that conversation in Silver Surfer where Eternity talks to Galactus and reveals that he sent the Celestials toa certain planet in order to put a chain of events in motion....

[Sabaition]

I'm not familiar with the appearances you cite... but I did read Thor's "Eternals Saga" a few times now.

"Just Standing On A Planet" is what they do, I thought.

Y'know, passing the decades before passing judgement. Which makes me think for all their might, they must be terrible timekeepers or incredibly indecisive... they need to show up 50 years ahead of time to meet a deadline? If they're so damn powerful, why not show up seconds before needed? Or, if it takes 50 years to make a decision about a planets' fate... well, get a checklist or scorecard made up... something to ease the decision making process. I'd hate to go clothes shopping with them!

"Does this make me look fat?"
"I like the color on this one, but is it me?"
"You sure this doesn't make me look fat?"

Repeat. For decades...

All too true and way too hilarious, lol...

But they proble show up to early incase something unforseen or a sudden jump in in the results is there so they can catch it as it happens...

[Sabaition]

Speaking of the Beyonder, I'm kind of having a hard time gaging Beyonder's power these days compared to beings like Galactus and the Celestials.

The main reason being the retcon with him becoming an incomplete cosmic cube and whatnot. The first Secret Wars left him really vague in appearance and his powers were noticeably very great but then Secret Wars II ruined the vagueness of him and then it sort of goes downhill into this mish mosh of stuff that still doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

That's because the guy who took over writing him in Secret Wars 2 didn't like his original character. Felt he was too OMNIPITENT... WHich was the point, but he felt he knew better and turn him into a DISCO KING...

[Expletive Deleted]

That's because the guy who took over writing him in Secret Wars 2 didn't like his original character. Felt he was too OMNIPITENT... WHich was the point, but he felt he knew better and turn him into a DISCO KING...Jim Shooter wrote both SECRET WARS and SECRET WARS II.

[Madison Carter]

That's because the guy who took over writing him in Secret Wars 2 didn't like his original character. Felt he was too OMNIPITENT... WHich was the point, but he felt he knew better and turn him into a DISCO KING...

Not quite. The guy writing Secret Wars 2 was Jim Shooter, the same guy who created the Beyonder for Secret Wars. Yeah, he gave him some bad fashion sense, but he kept him highly omnipotent. What you're thinking of is what happened after Shooter left Marvel, and Tom DeFalco, who wasn't a fan of the all-powerful Beyonder, had Steve Englehart retcon him in Fantastic Four #319.

[Thursaiz]

There is a Thor issue where Thor is inside the Celestial, and concludes that they appear to exist on many different levels at the same time.

I've always been fascinated by them, and the Eternals. I'd love to see a Cosmic event involving them. Maybe have five or six Celestials show up on Hala or Earth ready to wipe it clean.

[Question27]

There is a Thor issue where Thor is inside the Celestial, and concludes that they appear to exist on many different levels at the same time.

I've always been fascinated by them, and the Eternals. I'd love to see a Cosmic event involving them. Maybe have five or six Celestials show up on Hala or Earth ready to wipe it clean.

I think we have the third part of the Annihilation trilogy right there. They have to fight a Rogue Celestial or two.

[Sabaition]

Jim Shooter wrote both SECRET WARS and SECRET WARS II.


Just rechecked, your right. I thought Tom DeFalco retooled him in SW2? But it wasn't till later.

[Sabaition]

I think we have the third part of the Annihilation trilogy right there. They have to fight a Rogue Celestial or two.

OH WHAT??? I wasn't digging that series, especially when they killed Thanos in such a LAME way. But now you just re-captured my interest....

That's strong because the Celestials have punished those who "Broke Our Rules Of Conduct" so you would think the rest of them might show up if that's the case...

Oh and Eternity really isnt all that. I dont even wanna think of how many times he's got his butt handed to him, or been comatosed... Hate to say this, but the Celestials dont talk to anyone below them. Have you seen them talk to ANYONE. Not even Eternity. An again Kosmos and Kubik said that a Celestial posesses "Power many orders of magitude beyond our own." Now I don't recall how powerful these two are compared to say Galactus much but it still speaks highly.

They definately proved to me more powerful then most of the Cosmic Being with just one of them destroyed the portal to Asgard. An taking attacks that I dont think any other being could take. It took ALL the Asgardians as one to do battle. An they don't die, even the Exacutioner, who's body is/was slowly reforming after his shell was destroyed by Sue Richards.

[Question27]

OH WHAT??? I wasn't digging that series, especially when they killed Thanos in such a LAME way. But now you just re-captured my interest....

That's strong because the Celestials have punished those who "Broke Our Rules Of Conduct" so you would think the rest of them might show up if that's the case...

Oh and Eternity really isnt all that. I dont even wanna think of how many times he's got his butt handed to him, or been comatosed... Hate to say this, but the Celestials dont talk to anyone below them. Have you seen them talk to ANYONE. Not even Eternity. An again Kosmos and Kubik said that a Celestial posesses "Power many orders of magitude beyond our own." Now I don't recall how powerful these two are compared to say Galactus much but it still speaks highly.

They definately proved to me more powerful then most of the Cosmic Being with just one of them destroyed the portal to Asgard. An taking attacks that I dont think any other being could take. It took ALL the Asgardians as one to do battle. An they don't die, even the Exacutioner, who's body is/was slowly reforming after his shell was destroyed by Sue Richards.


It's not in Annihilation yet. But I think it's been hinted that the whole Annihilation thing is a trilogy, was saying that would make an interesting third part.

And you are definately short changing Eternity. The guy is the Universe, he is all that is, and that includes the Celestials. Only two beings that I know of exist outside of him, that is LT and the One above all. So sorry he kind of trumps the Celestials there. Plus both Thor and Invisible Woman have damaged Celestials.

The Cosmic Cube based beings, while powerful are actually at the low end of the cosmic scale. The Celestials are definately high up on the list of powerful cosmic beings, but again fall below top three, LT, One above all, and Eternity.

[Sabaition]

It's not in Annihilation yet. But I think it's been hinted that the whole Annihilation thing is a trilogy, was saying that would make an interesting third part.

And you are definately short changing Eternity. The guy is the Universe, he is all that is, and that includes the Celestials. Only two beings that I know of exist outside of him, that is LT and the One above all. So sorry he kind of trumps the Celestials there. Plus both Thor and Invisible Woman have damaged Celestials.

The Cosmic Cube based beings, while powerful are actually at the low end of the cosmic scale. The Celestials are definately high up on the list of powerful cosmic beings, but again fall below top three, LT, One above all, and Eternity.


Hmmm, well Marvel has really done a good job keeping the Celestials orgins a secret. Makes me wonder if they'll ever bring back GodStalker (Celestials Herald/Sercurity guard). Because they made it apper as if they may also be the police of the Cosmic beings of sorts. They have the Desecration Station, were they hold Cosmic beings they deam have ABUSED/MISsUSED they're powers.

Makes me wonder if they'll ever do a book where the Celestials go after a evil cosmic being. Or judge Galactus, for creating so many heralds then letting them run free to destroy so much crap. Or what they consider ABUSE of cosmic powers...

[Hulk Strongest One]

Numerous retcons will do that. Dismissing the Illuminati story, or at least setting it aside, the retcons in and of themselves are fairly fluid, if not entirely likeable. He's definitely below the Celestials in terms of true power, or at least it is believed he is.

Although how that jibes with him committing suicide by blowing up, creating a universe many times the size of this one, one wonders.

In the second Secret Wars, he defeats them by giving them "billions" of hits, each presumably immensly powerful, "per second".

And, whether they "let" him or not, the Beyonder did have both the energy and knowledge to reconfigure the universe so that nothing could die.

I'm sorry, but Galactus doesn't operate at those levels, so the whole "they let the Beyonder win" thing always stunk silly to me, to say nothing of being an enormous slap in the face to a wonderful and popular 12 issue maxi-series, just to please what amounted to a few whiney fanboys in the letters columns who didn't like the Celestials getting slapped around.

Perhaps a better writer will come along someday and reconcile him actually winning with a more clever interpretation of "they let him win".


Though he can pretty much do whatever he wants regarding reality, the Celestials may be from beyond (no pun intended) reality, and are outside of him.

In the so-called "Secret Wars III" (a couple of issues of FF a decade or more ago) it was suggested the Celestials may have something to do with the Beyonders (the creators of the Beyonder and the cosmic cubes) by them appearing in one of the unvierses the ship jumped through. Another was a "lightless" universe, which, earlier in the story, was suggested to be the Beyonders' home realm.

If the Celestials were a 3rd way for The Beyonders to get things done in this universe, that would be interesting. They (well, some anyway) are created by the forced merging of dozens to hundreds of Thor-level super-beings. But that says nothing about why they are created or what they are really up to.

As for Galactus, who knows. Has anyone ever tried using a Cosmic Cube on him?

Good question. Via Retcon #1 (The Beyonder is a cube-in-training) it should mop up the floor with him. Based on The Beyonder's energy levels displayed undisputably, which are super-universal, a planet eater is further beneath his notice than you are beneath Galactus himself.

We had to go to a future story before an out-of-control Galactus is actually a danger to the universe as a whole, and that's him wildly out of his normal operating range.

But that doesn't stop writers! :)

I'm imagine that as far along in his knowledge of how the multiverse works now, that the Beyonder, even if he was more powerful than Galactus, wouldn't test that, as he knows G is a vital component to existence and might not be willing to find out what happens if there is no Galactus. That's why he didn't screw around with resetting Doom back to the proper timeline in Fantastic Four #288, because he wasn't sure how mucking with time would affect his own existence.

Well, given Beyonder is an almost-complete cube, and they both have the "desire", so to speak, to grant wishes, one wonders what a mind as powerful as Galactus' would do with its willpower to force the cube to do whatever.

That would be an elegant solution to suggesting Galactus "let" the Beyonder win, while still preserving the idea that the Beyonder is way more powerful.

Witness:

1. Galactus, not knowing what he is, leaves battleworld to attack The Beyonder, and, properly, gets slapped down.

2. Everything else unfolds as it should, as-is, until Secret Wars II.

3. At this point, Galactus has figured it out, and the Celestials are aware of it, too, as are some of the other omnipotents. They are still all less powerful, but knowing he's a malformed cube, they could all easily just wish him into quiescence, taking advantage of the cube/Beyonder imperative to satisfy the wishes of "beings in this universe", which include Galactus and the Celestials.

And, of course, if the Celestials also are some kind of Beyonders-derivative, that opens yet another door for them to "lose".


The Beyonder needs some respect and love! He gets a beatdown all the time to show how bad New Threat Of The Month is.


Are people aware of what might be called a "Secret Wars IV"? It was a backup story in FF, I think, where the Molecule Man beats The Beyonder.

Per SWII, the Molecule Man was the tiny missing sliver of power that The Beyonder was missing, to turn into a full cube. Up until that point, the Molecule Man was the 2nd most powerful entity in existence (save the cubes themselves, and the Beyonders, off the charts).

So he gives up his slice of cube power to The Beyonder, but before doing so, re-creates in himself his original, no-organic-manipulation power, but without needing any cube energy.

So along comes this backup story, where he gets pissed the Beyonder could beat him, so he goes to Kosmos or Kubic or whoever, the cube-chick The Beyonder turned into, and forces it to turn back into The Beyonder. They fight, and The Molecule Man wins.

Whatevuh.

[firstmode]

Comicvine.com

Originally a being from beyond our universe the Beyonder proved to be possibly the most powerful being created in the Marvel universe. He seemed to have immense telepathic and telekinetic powers, he could shape shift, teleport (although he seemed somewhat omnipresent). The Beyonder appeared to have knowledge of all things past and present. Early on he seemed nothing more than an observer but as time went on he did influence those around him more and more. He teleported numerous heroes and villains from Earth to participate in the Secret Wars. He offered the victor anything their heart desired.


The Beyonder delivers his message.Sadly his power became the end of him as marvel deconstructed his abilities and cast him as a hoax. unaware of this the Beyonder became a much lesser super being, and his previous super feats were nothing more than his imagination. A sad end to what was an incredible being.

Recent events show that the Beyonder and his vast powers are not a hoax. He is actually a mutant Inhuman. The Terrigen Mists granted his mutant body far greater power than other Inhumans, inlcuding even the Inhuman's monarch Black Bolt. This new information shows that the Beyonder is indeed an almost omnipotent being and is potentially second only to the Living Tribunal in terms of scope and range of power(s).

[ZNOP]

Recent events show that the Beyonder and his vast powers are not a hoax. He is actually a mutant Inhuman. The Terrigen Mists granted his mutant body far greater power than other Inhumans, inlcuding even the Inhuman's monarch Black Bolt. This new information shows that the Beyonder is indeed an almost omnipotent being and is potentially second only to the Living Tribunal in terms of scope and range of power(s).

Oh, no... Not yet, another lousy RetCon. Is this true? What book is this disappointment in?

[Question27]

Oh, no... Not yet, another lousy RetCon. Is this true? What book is this disappointment in?


One of the Illuminati issues, #3 IIRC.

[Expletive Deleted]

Once you get to a certain level, power discussions become pointless (you could make the argument that they're almost always pointless, but that's another discussion for another time). Is one infinity bigger than another infinity, and so on. With the abstracts and their ilk, you have to talk more about function and sphere of influence than straight-up power.

The original Beyonder was omnipotent, in the purest sense of the word. Which made sense, because he was a cross between a plot device and a metaphorical stand-in for God. So as he was originally presented, sure, he was more powerful than all the abstract cosmics. That was the point of him. That was his role in the story. Later on, it wasn't, so he was repurposed and repowered.

[Expletive Deleted]

One of the Illuminati issues, #3 IIRC.For what it's worth, Bendis was careful to leave a ton of ambiguity in place. Nothing's set in stone.

[Roquefort Raider]

Oh, no... Not yet, another lousy RetCon. Is this true? What book is this disappointment in?

It's in the recent Illuminati mini-series.

And just wait! The Mutant Inhuman Cosmic Cube Beyonder may yet turn out to be a Skrull!!!

God, how I hate retcons.

[Arilou]

Oh and Eternity really isnt all that. I dont even wanna think of how many times he's got his butt handed to him, or been comatosed... Hate to say this, but the Celestials dont talk to anyone below them.

They talked to Machine-Man.
They called him a total "######"

Have you seen them talk to ANYONE. Not even Eternity. An again Kosmos and Kubik said that a Celestial posesses "Power many orders of magitude beyond our own." Now I don't recall how powerful these two are compared to say Galactus much but it still speaks highly.

Galactus, while the elder brother, isn't anywhere near the power level of his li'l bro. Eternity explains himself pretty well in that SS story. He needed something done but ("It is not in my nature to act as a being") so he made a celestial show up on the skrull homeworld which set a chain of events in motion....

[Madison Carter]

I keep seeing these references to the Beyonder being retconned as a hoax. When, exactly, was this?

[DMike]

I'm not familiar with the appearances you cite... but I did read Thor's "Eternals Saga" a few times now.

"Just Standing On A Planet" is what they do, I thought.

Y'know, passing the decades before passing judgement. Which makes me think for all their might, they must be terrible timekeepers or incredibly indecisive... they need to show up 50 years ahead of time to meet a deadline? If they're so damn powerful, why not show up seconds before needed? Or, if it takes 50 years to make a decision about a planets' fate... well, get a checklist or scorecard made up... something to ease the decision making process. I'd hate to go clothes shopping with them!

"Does this make me look fat?"
"I like the color on this one, but is it me?"
"You sure this doesn't make me look fat?"

Repeat. For decades...

Considering how powerful and eternal they are, time may not have the same meaning to them as it does to us. What's fifty years to us may only be a few months (or hours) to them.

[ZNOP]

OH WHAT??? I wasn't digging that series, especially when they killed Thanos in such a LAME way. But now you just re-captured my interest...

What?!? Thanos is dead:( Who did it and, how?

[tipo4thesoul]

organized power ranking:

http://www.marvel.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=20612

[DDM]

What?!? Thanos is dead:( Who did it and, how?

Drax killed Thanos in Annihilation.

[StoneGold]

What?!? Thanos is dead:( Who did it and, how?

Drax pulled a Mola Ram on him and ripped his heart out through his chest, thereby finally fulfilling his destiny.

[TheORKINMan]

Guys Galactus as far as physical power can be way below a lot of the others depending on his hunger state. He is the balance because he has the trump card in the Ultimate Nullifier which basically means he wins vs anything up to and including Eternity if he really wishes it.

This is illustrated in FF when Galactus summons the Ultimate Nullifier to his hand and states it is merely an extension of him. He hands the Nullifier to Reed who uses it to obliterate Abraxas who WAS Eternity.

[Will.S]

Drax pulled a Mola Ram on him and ripped his heart out through his chest, thereby finally fulfilling his destiny.
Better yet, Kano style:

http://sydlexia.com/imagesandstuff/mk1/mkla0140.png

[Will.S]

Guys Galactus as far as physical power can be way below a lot of the others depending on his hunger state. He is the balance because he has the trump card in the Ultimate Nullifier which basically means he wins vs anything up to and including Eternity if he really wishes it.

This is illustrated in FF when Galactus summons the Ultimate Nullifier to his hand and states it is merely an extension of him. He hands the Nullifier to Reed who uses it to obliterate Abraxas who WAS Eternity.
So Ultimate Nullifier > Thanos with Infinity Gauntlet?

[Question27]

So Ultimate Nullifier > Thanos with Infinity Gauntlet?

Nope, we've seen the Guantlet trumps the Nullifier in Infinity War. Quasar was sent to use it against Magus, who turned all the power on Quasar himself. Magus with IG wasn't affected. But then the IG supposedly makes someone equal to LT himself, maybe even above him.

[Sabaition]

organized power ranking:

http://www.marvel.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=20612

That's garbage... Someone here already said the Phoenix beat a Celestial by combine her power with other. An didn't Thanos destroy the Heart of teh Universe so it shouldn't be listed... OH and oh course HYPERSTORM below Doom. Yet his power IS Hyperspace, which is the SOURCE for the Power Cosmic. Oh and he kicked Doom's butt, the FF's butt. An took over SEVERAL UNIVERSES. He literally laughed at the thought of fighting Galactus. As HyperSpace is far stronger then the Power Cosmic.

They also have him over Destroyer, Adam Warlock and THANOS... Tell who ever made that list to stop drinking...

[Will.S]

That's garbage... Someone here already said the Phoenix beat a Celestial by combine her power with other. An didn't Thanos destroy the Heart of teh Universe so it shouldn't be listed... OH and oh course HYPERSTORM below Doom. Yet his power IS Hyperspace, which is the SOURCE for the Power Cosmic. Oh and he kicked Doom's butt, the FF's butt. An took over SEVERAL UNIVERSES. He literally laughed at the thought of fighting Galactus. As HyperSpace is far stronger then the Power Cosmic.

They also have him over Destroyer, Adam Warlock and THANOS... Tell who ever made that list to stop drinking...
That list is......far too long for me to take any interest in.

[Arilou]

Nope, we've seen the Guantlet trumps the Nullifier in Infinity War. Quasar was sent to use it against Magus, who turned all the power on Quasar himself. Magus with IG wasn't affected. But then the IG supposedly makes someone equal to LT himself, maybe even above him.

Nope, the LT TURNED OFF the Gauntlet. He mentioned (kind of casually) that if he was forced to forcefully go against it he'd destroy the universe as a side-effect, but the LT is wayyyy above the Gauntlet.

And Magus wasn't using the IG at the time (at least not a complete IG) as he was missing the Reality gem.

[Question27]

Nope, the LT TURNED OFF the Gauntlet. He mentioned (kind of casually) that if he was forced to forcefully go against it he'd destroy the universe as a side-effect, but the LT is wayyyy above the Gauntlet.

And Magus wasn't using the IG at the time (at least not a complete IG) as he was missing the Reality gem.


Need to reread the issues. But I thought it was implied the IG made Adam equal to LT, which is why the fight would destroy the universe. But the IG is not above the one LT serves. And I thought it took both Eternity and Tribunal to shut off the power of the Guantlet, and probably the One above All.

[Expletive Deleted]

And I thought it took both Eternity and Tribunal to shut off the power of the Guantlet, and probably the One above All.Basically, the Tribunal can prevent the Gems from working as one, but he'll only do so if Eternity asks him.

It's not really a power thing, so much as it's an authority thing.

[Lord S]

the LT is wayyyy above the Gauntlet. Unproven. Remember, LT had to talk (more like brainwash and guilt-trip) Warlock into accepting his judgment and giving up the power. He could not forcibly separate the Gauntlet from Warlock's person.

He could however prevent the gems from working together in unison...but that was AFTER they were already separated.

And Magus wasn't using the IG at the time (at least not a complete IG) as he was missing the Reality gem. Only gives the Gauntlet more credibility...that even an incomplete IG could trump the UN.

[Question27]

Unproven. Remember, LT had to talk (more like brainwash and guilt-trip) Warlock into accepting his judgment and giving up the power. He could not forcibly separate the Gauntlet from Warlock's person.

He could however prevent the gems from working together in unison...but that was AFTER they were already separated.

That's what I remembered. And what was said was that in order to prove who was more powerful, the fight would end up destroying everything. Which is something that no one wanted.

[Titan76]

3: While in their body, they apeared to contain a Universe looking enviorment. They are more powerful then any other cosmic being.
I disagree. The Celestials are clearly below LT and the Big 4. I would say that might even be below Galactus since he has been seen to be able to destroy entire galaxies as a side-effect in battle.
Using Planets as weapons with just the point of a finger,
Only two Celestials did that and they are the most powerful ones. There are 5 hosts of Celestials and each Hosts of Celestials is more powerful then the Hosts below them.
were the only ones not sent into the air from Warlocks attack during his Guantlet trial
Because they weren't there. And when Thanos had the IG he defeated them easily.
and in one case have used their own body to contain a universe.
What issue was that in?
Unproven. Remember, LT had to talk (more like brainwash and guilt-trip) Warlock into accepting his judgment and giving up the power.
Given that the IG had no effect what so ever on LT when Warlock was using it and that LT over-powered the Gauntlet by just snapping his fingers makes me think he's more powerful then it.

LT never brainwash/guilt-trip Warlock either. He stated the obvious of what would happen if Warlock chose to fight him if he did not give up the IG. Warlock also know in the end that he would give up the IG and submit to LT's judgment most likely because he knew he couldn't win so he wouldn't fight a lost cause.

He could not forcibly separate the Gauntlet from Warlock's person.
That's not a proven fact.

[Arilou]

Heck, the fact that the Living Tribunal doesen't intervene in the original affair becuase *Thanos with the IG is beneath his notice* says something about his status.

Also the way his speech is rendered, I love that. He doesen't get speech bubbles, just huge freestanding text.

[Lord S]

Given that the IG had no effect what so ever on LT when Warlock was using it The power was never directed at him.

and that LT over-powered the Gauntlet by just snapping his fingers makes me think he's more powerful then it. That is impressive...but not convincing enough for me to say he could beat Warlock in a one-on-one battle.

LT never brainwash/guilt-trip Warlock either. He stated the obvious of what would happen if Warlock chose to fight him if he did not give up the IG. And the 'obvious' was that the battle would destroy the reality...not that Warlock would lose.

Warlock also know in the end that he would give up the IG and submit to LT's judgment Because he had the Time Gem...because he knew he wasn't fit to rule a reality, and stated that he was never comfortable carrying the mantle of supremacy on his shoulders.

most likely because he knew he couldn't win so he wouldn't fight a lost cause. Pure conjecture, right there.

That's not a proven fact. Well why didn't he then? Because it would destroy the reality? That's it? Sounds like a flimsy excuse for a being who, with the slightest gesture, can recreate a universe as easily as he can destroy one. Surely with the IG in his grasp, he could recreate the destroyed reality even faster than he he could under his own power, so why would the fate of the universe be of importance to LT? It's highly likely that he was unsure of his own ability to wrest the Gauntlet from Warlock...but had to make it appear that he was more powerful.

It's basic poker.

Heck, the fact that the Living Tribunal doesen't intervene in the original affair becuase *Thanos with the IG is beneath his notice* says something about his status. That's not exactly what he said...he said he would not interfere because no cosmic crime was being committed. Because Thanos was only trying to usurp Eternity's place in the universe...and that survival of the fittest was the natural order of the universe.

[Sabaition]

I disagree. The Celestials are clearly below LT and the Big 4. I would say that might even be below Galactus since he has been seen to be able to destroy entire galaxies as a side-effect in battle.

I just can't see the Celestials as being under galactus. They're more feared by higher up beings then he is. Also Eterity dispatch them to handle a problem. Not Galactus, or any of the "BIG 4". An it has been "suggested" they are resposible for punishing out of control Cosmic beings... They LOCK THEM UP in the Desicration Station.

Because they weren't there. And when Thanos had the IG he defeated them easily.

You need to re-open the book bud. The Celetials were at Warlocks "Trial", an when Warlock unleashed his power, the Celestials simple covered their eyes. An Thanos blew up a planet between them. That's aheck of a shockwave for any cosmic being to take at point blank range. Plus the fight took place in the IG reality. Which is where it's most powerful. An has full control.

Given that the IG had no effect what so ever on LT when Warlock was using it and that LT over-powered the Gauntlet by just snapping his fingers makes me think he's more powerful then it.

The Gaunlet effects everthing within IT'S reality. The Tri-Bunal exsist OUTSIDE of reality. So it doesn't place his above it, but it does explain why it didn' really effect him. Not to mention his control of the reality which they did the trial in.

[TheORKINMan]

BTW Guys it's not completely known whether or not the IG is completely above the Nullifier. The Nullifier's power level is dependent upon the mind of it's wielder. An Ultimate Nullifier blast from Quasar is not the same thing as a Nullifier blast from Galactus himself or even someone like Reed Richards, who was capable of nullifying the evil version of Eternity.

Moreover while all of these other cosmic entities must exist within the laws of the universe, the nullifier itself is not from this universe and breaks the law of the conservation of energy/matter when used. Which is why it's a "trump" and also likely why it's almost never used or brought up.

[ZNOP]

Does anyone have the entire story of how Franklin and Valeria merged powers to recreate Galactus. I need details. Please:)

[Sabaition]

Does anyone have the entire story of how Franklin and Valeria merged powers to recreate Galactus. I need details. Please:)

I never heard about that.. How'd I miss that?

A Franklin alone could do it... Well, if his powers were still intact. However I don't 100% beleave they're gone. I think he shut them off himself, sub consciencely maybe. After seeing all the hurt it brought his family. I wouldn't put it past him.

How many times have we seen powerful character exile their own powers until something happened that make them cry "DON'T MAKE ME BRING TEM BACK" and then they do... So I'm not convinced at all..

[IdiotGod]

according to Marvel handbook, LT is second only to TOAA and it even specifically says he's stronger than the IG.

also remember guys, LT oversees every multiverse in Marvel.

no IG wielder is a threat to more than a single multiverse.

as for the list a few pages back, Nemesis is stronger than Eternity

[Madison Carter]

Personal opinion? When you get into the cosmic-level guys, trying to figure out who is stronger than who is, in a way, pointless. Fun, sure, but ultimately pointless. There's more to most of them than simple raw power. Too many of them balance each other out, or are connected in so many complex ways that it's no longer a matter of power. Even disregarding the whole Celestials retcon, the Beyonder later caused the destruction of Death itself. Does that make him more powerful than Death? No, not neccessarily. Death, as an abstract concept, was still present, even in its absence (or else no one would have realized Death was gone, because they wouldn't have been able to even grasp the concept of Death any longer). In the same story, the Living Tribunal was one of the entities that confronted the Beyonder. In terms of sheer power, in our way of thinking of things, LT could have just figuratively snapped his fingers at that very second and been rid of the Beyonder instead of going through the confrontation, yet he didn't. It simply didn't serve his purpose to do so. That's the thing about cosmic entities that takes them out of the more superficial realm of "who can beat who." Their purpose preceeds any concept of strength/power we may have for most of them; thus, more often than not, what we see them display is not always what we would consider a show of their actual power.

[Titan76]

The power was never directed at him.
It was directed at everyone including him.
That is impressive...but not convincing enough for me to say he could beat Warlock in a one-on-one battle.
So one snapping there fingers to overpower the so called Supreme Being of the universe and not even having to get out of their chair and put any effort at all to over power the IG isn't convincing? That and Warlock was shock as hell that LT was able to overpower him so easily.
And the 'obvious' was that the battle would destroy the reality...not that Warlock would lose.
Not that LT would lose either.
Because he had the Time Gem...because he knew he wasn't fit to rule a reality, and stated that he was never comfortable carrying the mantle of supremacy on his shoulders.
But going into the trail he was piss that all the cosmic beings were going against him because he felt he was capable of being the Supreme Being like Thanos was at one point.

And if the Time Gem allows him to see into the future obviously he could see who would have won the fight between him and LT. If he know he could have won then why would he give the Gauntlet up to LT?

Pure conjecture, right there.
And this isn't.

He could not forcibly separate the Gauntlet from Warlock's person.

Well why didn't he then? Because it would destroy the reality? That's it? Sounds like a flimsy excuse for a being who, with the slightest gesture, can recreate a universe as easily as he can destroy one. Surely with the IG in his grasp, he could recreate the destroyed reality even faster than he he could under his own power, so why would the fate of the universe be of importance to LT? It's highly likely that he was unsure of his own ability to wrest the Gauntlet from Warlock...but had to make it appear that he was more powerful.

It's basic poker.

Because why would he have to fight Warlock when he probably knows he can talk he down instead? LT is suppose to have great wisdom and him trying alternatives to take care of a problem rather then using nothing but brute force all the time sounds smart to me. He's the Judge of the Multiverse and while he will sacrifice a planet or universe to keep the Multiverse safe it doesn't sound bad that he would try to solve the problem without blowing shit up.

Like in the what if comic when he fought against Korvac(I think that's his name) he blasted him with enough power to blow up a star but the blast didn't kill Korvac so instead of killing him which may have cause more damaged to the universe LT just decided he would seal off that universe from the rest of the Multiverse because he know Korvac wouldn't be able to break out. He takes care of a problem without destroying galaxies or a universe, pretty good.

[Titan76]

I just can't see the Celestials as being under galactus.
Why, because he talks to others and they don't?:confused:
They're more feared by higher up beings then he is.
I've never seen Eternity or Death being afraid of them.

They're also not use much like he is either. Galactus is used a lot, and either he has to be power down alot to let others have a chance against him or he has to go up against other cosmics to make things more interesting.
Also Eterity dispatch them to handle a problem. Not Galactus, or any of the "BIG 4".
Eternity is part of the Big 4. It goes Eternity, Infinity, Death, and Oblivion and Eternity doesn't command any of them since they are his equals. To my knowledge he doesn't even command Galactus either because Galactus is also an equal to him. So it would make sense for Eternity to dispatch the Celestials to take care of a problem for him since he would have to ask the others to do it not order them.

The only cosmic beings other then the Celestials that Eternity has been seen to command are Master Order and Lord Chaos.
An it has been "suggested" they are resposible for punishing out of control Cosmic beings... They LOCK THEM UP in the Desicration Station.
Which cosmic beings? Galacuts has also lock up some cosmic beings when the universe began as well.
You need to re-open the book bud. The Celetials were at Warlocks "Trial", an when Warlock unleashed his power, the Celestials simple covered their eyes.
You are right, one Celestial was there.

Is this the scene you are talking about?
http://img132.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ltrulesig56ys.jpg
Because Galactus was also just covering his eyes as well and this was the second time Warlock was having a fit. The first time he was making the other cosmics bouncing around like pin-balls including the Celestial. Hell even in this scan the Celestial is no where to be found on the bottom of the panel.
An Thanos blew up a planet between them. That's aheck of a shockwave for any cosmic being to take at point blank range.
Galactus has blown up a star right in front of himself and wasn't even effect by it.
Plus the fight took place in the IG reality. Which is where it's most powerful. An has full control.
I could have sworn the IG saga took place in the regular 616 universe. In Infinite War the IG was outside the 616 universe but in the IG saga it was in the regular MU.
The Gaunlet effects everthing within IT'S reality. The Tri-Bunal exsist OUTSIDE of reality. So it doesn't place his above it, but it does explain why it didn' really effect him. Not to mention his control of the reality which they did the trial in.
No the IG has been shown to effect things even outside its reality. A incomplete Gauntlet in Magus's reality was working just fine and effecting anything Magus wanted it too.

And just because they were in the Tribunal's pocket universe doesn't mean anything. The IG was still effecting all the other cosmic beings in his little pocket universe just fine. I don't think it would make any difference if they were in the Tribunal's universe or the 616 universe. And if that's the case then why didn't Warlock just go back to his reality and have LT come to him so he would be able to effect him? Probably because it makes no difference.

[Titan76]

Does anyone have the entire story of how Franklin and Valeria merged powers to recreate Galactus. I need details. Please:)
This happen during the Abraxas arc. Abraxas is the universal embodiment of destruction and the antithesis of Eternity. Galactus had been killed in his mini series called "Galactus" by the F4, the Shi'ar, and the Silver Surfer. Because of this Abraxas who Galactus keeps in check by devouring worlds was released and went from reality to reality killing each of their Galactus until he came to the main 616 universe. Franklin and Valeria combine their cosmic powers to recreate 616 Galactus and burn their powers out because of this supposedly forever.

Galactus then came back and took the Ultimate Nullifier away from Abraxas who took it from the F4(who were going to use it to destroy Abraxas) and give it to Reed. Reed then used it on Abraxas either destroying him or imprisoning him again. The Ultimate Nullifier is also revealed to be an aspect of Galactus himself.

[bd2999]

Three things bug me that I wonder if they've touched on.

1: The Beyonder went to a Planet that the Celestials were standing on. Started yelling for them to talk to him. When they all suddenly jumpped at him. He screams "I KNEW IT!!!", did a shock wave type blast and flew away.

2: Then while traveling with Thor. The FF pass through a dimension FILLED with Celestials just floating about. Reed was amazed and mention he wish he could study it, because it might be where they come from.

3: While in their body, they apeared to contain a Universe looking enviorment. They are more powerful then any other cosmic being. Using Planets as weapons with just the point of a finger, were the only ones not sent into the air from Warlocks attack during his Guantlet trial and in one case have used their own body to contain a universe.

Have they done anything to connect these things and explain anything about them... AN WHY WERE THEY JUST STANDING ON A PLANET... With gigantics weapons too?


Not really a direct explanation no. They go from world to world and play around with the genetic code. They come back later after evolution has run its course and determine if they should end the experiment or not. That is why they stand there, its usually the Celestial thats judging. The others all have other jobs during the course of things that lead to the final verdict on the life forms of the world.

They have some connection to hyperspace, that was said in FF, and Sue used it to destroy Exitar's outer shell, but that just seems to say that they are more abstract like than actually being physical, but not much more has been gone into about any of it. The Celestials are mysterious beings and little is known about them inside or outside of the MU as far as I can tell.

[bd2999]

That's garbage... Someone here already said the Phoenix beat a Celestial by combine her power with other. An didn't Thanos destroy the Heart of teh Universe so it shouldn't be listed... OH and oh course HYPERSTORM below Doom. Yet his power IS Hyperspace, which is the SOURCE for the Power Cosmic. Oh and he kicked Doom's butt, the FF's butt. An took over SEVERAL UNIVERSES. He literally laughed at the thought of fighting Galactus. As HyperSpace is far stronger then the Power Cosmic.

They also have him over Destroyer, Adam Warlock and THANOS... Tell who ever made that list to stop drinking...


I took a look at the list and although I dont agree to much I think this is an all time list. I never remember Pheonix beating a Celestial, ever. If someone could prove me wrong than fine but I have worked pretty hard to get all of the Celestial and Galactus showings and I have nothing like that.

Thanos did not really destroy the heart of the universe, he used the power to restart the universe but he did not destroy it. I think its just a plot device that is all the power in the universe or something like that. It still likely exists in one form or another.

I am not sure about hyperspace being the source of the PC either, I mean it might have been mentioned once, but other times its said to be a power from the normal universe. Either way Galactus and Hyperstorm did meet and Galactus used him as a food source and H could not stop him. They got pulled into that realm or some other, I can't remember, and Galactus came back. I can only assume that means that Galactus won the contest.

[Slyfer]

I never heard about that.. How'd I miss that?

A Franklin alone could do it... Well, if his powers were still intact. However I don't 100% beleave they're gone. I think he shut them off himself, sub consciencely maybe. After seeing all the hurt it brought his family. I wouldn't put it past him.

How many times have we seen powerful character exile their own powers until something happened that make them cry "DON'T MAKE ME BRING TEM BACK" and then they do... So I'm not convinced at all..


This occurred during FF V3 Issue 56 - 62 I think I am not sure, good friggin read, its the Abaraxa (sp) storyline

[ZNOP]

I took a look at the list and although I dont agree to much I think this is an all time list. I never remember Pheonix beating a Celestial, ever. If someone could prove me wrong than fine but I have worked pretty hard to get all of the Celestial and Galactus showings and I have nothing like that.

That would be X-Factor #50. http://en.marveldatabase.com/X-Factor_50

:D

[Sabaition]

I took a look at the list and although I dont agree to much I think this is an all time list. I never remember Pheonix beating a Celestial, ever. If someone could prove me wrong than fine but I have worked pretty hard to get all of the Celestial and Galactus showings and I have nothing like that.

Thanos did not really destroy the heart of the universe, he used the power to restart the universe but he did not destroy it. I think its just a plot device that is all the power in the universe or something like that. It still likely exists in one form or another.

I am not sure about hyperspace being the source of the PC either, I mean it might have been mentioned once, but other times its said to be a power from the normal universe. Either way Galactus and Hyperstorm did meet and Galactus used him as a food source and H could not stop him. They got pulled into that realm or some other, I can't remember, and Galactus came back. I can only assume that means that Galactus won the contest.


Well the thing is that Hyperstorms power never lowers. It's never ending, that's why Reed was freaking out that they must "Avoid" a direct confrontation. That was the idea behind Reed plan to use the Big G. Galactus is never "Full" and Hyperstorms power is inexhaustible. It was a kill two birds with one stone/endless cycle thing. I honestly think the writer who brought Galactus back just didn't know OR realized that was the point.

An I don't know when the Pheonix beat a Celestial. But someone on here said it happened through her combining powers from others.

An I thought I read the Big 4 didn't have Eternity. But that would make aheck of alot more since. If that's the case I could possible out them over the Celestials.

However I would like a a peek at the list of the cosmic beings the Celestials have put away in the Desicration Station. An why?

An I need to find the book, but it was suggested once that the Celestials are actualy beings in another universe or dimension. They shells they wear allow them access to the 616 Universe. Maybe it was Reed in the same book with all t Celestials floating about. An I still want to know why/how the Beyonder knew them.

[Leunames]

Well the thing is that Hyperstorms power never lowers. It's never ending, that's why Reed was freaking out that they must "Avoid" a direct confrontation. That was the idea behind Reed plan to use the Big G. Galactus is never "Full" and Hyperstorms power is inexhaustible. It was a kill two birds with one stone/endless cycle thing. I honestly think the writer who brought Galactus back just didn't know OR realized that was the point.

An I don't know when the Pheonix beat a Celestial. But someone on here said it happened through her combining powers from others.

An I thought I read the Big 4 didn't have Eternity. But that would make aheck of alot more since. If that's the case I could possible out them over the Celestials.

However I would like a a peek at the list of the cosmic beings the Celestials have put away in the Desicration Station. An why?

An I need to find the book, but it was suggested once that the Celestials are actualy beings in another universe or dimension. They shells they wear allow them access to the 616 Universe. Maybe it was Reed in the same book with all t Celestials floating about. An I still want to know why/how the Beyonder knew them.

The power cosmic does not come from hyperspace. The power cosmic comes as a result of the union between Galan of Taa and the Sentience of the Universe, which is the Eternity of Galan's reality. One can safely argue the power cosmic precludes hyperspace in terms of existence...i.e. Galactus was incubating even before the current universe was formed. Therefore the power cosmic existed before any of the fundamental forces of the universe, i.e., hyperspace, came into being.

[Leunames]

Guys Galactus as far as physical power can be way below a lot of the others depending on his hunger state. He is the balance because he has the trump card in the Ultimate Nullifier which basically means he wins vs anything up to and including Eternity if he really wishes it.

This is illustrated in FF when Galactus summons the Ultimate Nullifier to his hand and states it is merely an extension of him. He hands the Nullifier to Reed who uses it to obliterate Abraxas who WAS Eternity.

-------------------

BTW Guys it's not completely known whether or not the IG is completely above the Nullifier. The Nullifier's power level is dependent upon the mind of it's wielder. An Ultimate Nullifier blast from Quasar is not the same thing as a Nullifier blast from Galactus himself or even someone like Reed Richards, who was capable of nullifying the evil version of Eternity.

Moreover while all of these other cosmic entities must exist within the laws of the universe, the nullifier itself is not from this universe and breaks the law of the conservation of energy/matter when used. Which is why it's a "trump" and also likely why it's almost never used or brought up.

No. Galactus is the balance in the universe because he is the one being that prevents Death and Eternity from settling into perfect stasis. This is explained in an issue of silver surfer. If the universe settles into perfect stasis between death and eternity, the universe would eventually collapse under its own weight. Galactus is the *only* force that balances death and eternity without leaving them into stasis. That is why Galactus is one third of the three entities that are necessary for the marvel universe to exist.



Quasar unleashed all the power of the ultimate nullifier against magus. Magus redirected the power back at quasar with the IG. I have a scan of the exact moment, I'll post it if necessary.

The ultimate nullifier is part of Galactus...it's an aspect of his being.

[Leunames]

As for Galactus, who knows. Has anyone ever tried using a Cosmic Cube on him?

Yes. During Infinity War Magus collected 5 cosmic cubes. When Galactus, Dr. Strange, Nova, and Silver Surfer are approaching Magus' realm, magus uses the power of the cubes (harnessed by magus' tech...he presses a button to activate the power of the cubes) to destroy galactus' vessel. Everyone on board galactus' vessel dies.

however....Galactus reforms his vessel, himself, and everyone on it. So, in other words, Galactus was attacked by power backed by 5 cosmic cubes, and reformed/recreated himself and others. Pretty impressive.

[ZNOP]

Yes. During Infinity War Magus collected 5 cosmic cubes. When Galactus, Dr. Strange, Nova, and Silver Surfer are approaching Magus' realm, magus uses the power of the cubes (harnessed by magus' tech...he presses a button to activate the power of the cubes) to destroy galactus' vessel. Everyone on board galactus' vessel dies.

however....Galactus reforms his vessel, himself, and everyone on it. So, in other words, Galactus was attacked by power backed by 5 cosmic cubes, and reformed/recreated himself and others. Pretty impressive.

5 cosmic cubes? That was overkill for nothing.

[DDM]

5 cosmic cubes? That was overkill for nothing.

The Magus is just crazy that way.

[Slyfer]

Using Planets as tools for ammunition is what I call Impressive, and to think they only sent 2 Celestials to take on Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlets. Damn what an impressive race, Heck the two celestials that confronted Thanos weren't even on the level on the top four, they were just two Celestials.

[Slyfer]

No. Galactus is the balance in the universe because he is the one being that prevents Death and Eternity from settling into perfect stasis. This is explained in an issue of silver surfer. If the universe settles into perfect stasis between death and eternity, the universe would eventually collapse under its own weight. Galactus is the *only* force that balances death and eternity without leaving them into stasis. That is why Galactus is one third of the three entities that are necessary for the marvel universe to exist.



Quasar unleashed all the power of the ultimate nullifier against magus. Magus redirected the power back at quasar with the IG. I have a scan of the exact moment, I'll post it if necessary.

The ultimate nullifier is part of Galactus...it's an aspect of his being.

Also Galactus exist to keep Abarasax in Check.

[thronzeblast]

Yes. During Infinity War Magus collected 5 cosmic cubes. When Galactus, Dr. Strange, Nova, and Silver Surfer are approaching Magus' realm, magus uses the power of the cubes (harnessed by magus' tech...he presses a button to activate the power of the cubes) to destroy galactus' vessel. Everyone on board galactus' vessel dies.

however....Galactus reforms his vessel, himself, and everyone on it. So, in other words, Galactus was attacked by power backed by 5 cosmic cubes, and reformed/recreated himself and others. Pretty impressive.


I believe doc strange had to hand in giving galactus the time he needed to reform.

[ZNOP]

Also Galactus exist to keep Abarasax in Check.

No. Galactus is balance period. Abraxas or no.

[Leunames]

Using Planets as tools for ammunition is what I call Impressive, and to think they only sent 2 Celestials to take on Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlets. Damn what an impressive race, Heck the two celestials that confronted Thanos weren't even on the level on the top four, they were just two Celestials.

You don't think being destroyed by a cosmic cube (from the power of 5, no less, and then coming back from the dead, is impressive? Are you sure you know what cosmic cubes are?

FYI one of the two celestials is the One Above All, the leader of the whole celestial race. He's never named as such but check the artistic depiction of the One Above All in other comics....it's exactly the same in looks and appearance as the ones in the IG. The other celestial i believe is ziran the tester...so you're incorrect in saying "they weren't even on the level of the top four."

also, Galactus can teleport an entire galaxy...the celestials just hurled planets....think how many planets a whole galaxy contains...millions....

[DaeJi]

Oh, cosmic beings are always as powerful as the story needs them to be. The only order that really stays constant is One Above All > Living Tribunal > everyone else.

[Leunames]

Oh, cosmic beings are always as powerful as the story needs them to be. The only order that really stays constant is One Above All > Living Tribunal > everyone else.

that's not true for only cosmics in particular. that's true for all characters in all comic books ever made. cosmic beings have a "legacy" of sorts, just like any other character, and are adjusted in turn, just like any other character.

The very definition of SM vs FL....characters are as powerful as story needs them to be.