View Full Version : Iron Man #23 *Spoilers*
drwho
10-31-2007, 07:28 PM
Art in this issue is top notch and story appears to be moving somewhere. One thing that is bugging me is what exactly are Mandarin's intentions with the extremis thing. Is he wanting to make an army to rule the world, or just doing all this to finish Tony off? Tony is really coming off as fall guy in all these appearances as Shield director which I think is lame. In this issue other govt groups say he maybe mentally unstable and Samson shows up and tells Tony to go on leave. So Tony is on leave investigating the missing people reports that Gadget was reviewing before she died. Also Paragon is shown to be working for Mandarin. Paragon tries to kill Graviton, but gets killed and then Graviton commits suicide. A waste of a good villain. He will probably be back. I am liking the scenes with Mandarin's interaction with Maya.
Graviton commits suicide? Wow... that really is a waste of a perfectly good villain.
With so many heroes being upgraded these days, a fairly high end threat like him can be awefully handy.
Granted as you said, he probably will be brought back sooner or later (with or without explanation... we see it all the time). Still, very wasteful and short sighted if it sticks.
bulbasteve
10-31-2007, 07:43 PM
Well Graviton was in "the pit" and seeing as how we didn't see him doing anything different than what he could have done before I would say that some sort of crazy timed healing factor is a distinct possibility. Heck in the issue he talked about the things that he had done to him and the fact that is didn't consider himself human anymore seems to point to that...
Omega Alpha
10-31-2007, 08:04 PM
This was the best issue of the Knauf's run. Their development of Tony is simply fantastic, and is a shame that writers like JMS insist on write Tony as a bloodthirsty Nazi.
The Cool Thatguy
10-31-2007, 08:11 PM
Graviton commits suicide? Guess that saves the writers the trouble of explaining how he went from a personally acknowledged loser to seeing himself as a freakin' God! Yeah, no characterization shock there.
RangerNec
10-31-2007, 08:58 PM
Seeing the SHRA bite Tony in the ass was the best thing ever.
Omega Alpha
10-31-2007, 10:06 PM
Graviton commits suicide? Guess that saves the writers the trouble of explaining how he went from a personally acknowledged loser to seeing himself as a freakin' God! Yeah, no characterization shock there.
Actually, it makes perfect sense for a loser to begin to see himself as a God, specially when this loser happens to be pretty powerful.
Graviton commits suicide? Guess that saves the writers the trouble of explaining how he went from a personally acknowledged loser to seeing himself as a freakin' God! Yeah, no characterization shock there.
From what I remember, Graviton's self-esteem was listed in the first volume of Thunderbolts after treatment by Moonstone. In fact, he was so confident that he demolished the whole team without breaking a sweat! Is it possible that this story follows on from that?
Kefky
11-01-2007, 05:02 AM
Hasn't Graviton been kinda insane for a while anyway? His powers are cool, but I didn't really mind his death here. His role in the story was interesting enough.
The Cool Thatguy
11-01-2007, 05:40 AM
From what I remember, Graviton's self-esteem was listed in the first volume of Thunderbolts after treatment by Moonstone. In fact, he was so confident that he demolished the whole team without breaking a sweat! Is it possible that this story follows on from that?
That was actually the story I was referring to. Graviton had slaughtered the Redeemers, captured all the heroes, levitated dozens of cities yet in the end, was still beaten and nearly killed by the Thunderbolts. When asked why he was always beaten, Moonstone plainly said that he let it happened, as with his powers he could have kept every hero miles away from himself.
Graviton accepted the rebuke, undid the damage he was causing and was last seen sucked into a black hole while suffering numerous serious internal injuries (impaled, broken ribs and a few bullet holes).
I didn't really think he was dead, but you gotta admit, it's a long distance from that to self proclaimed God. Especially when you consider that he was a team buster threat beforehand and here was taken down by Iron Man himself.
This was an awesome issue. I actually re-read the entirety of the arc so far and it is all so sweet. Very interesting developments with Tony, Extremis, and the the Mandarin. I'm a little sad that the Knaufs keep killing off characters I find interesting and would like to see more of. Happy Hogan, Sal Kennedy, Gadget, and now Graviton. I had never read anything with Graviton before, but he seemed like a great villain for Tony. Hopefully he'll come back eventually.
On the art side of things, I think De la Torre has been turning in some remarkable work. I've been gobbling up every bit of it, and was sad that he didn't do this issue. However, Butch Guice's art is remarkable as well! I thought so even on the WWH story, but I wasn't sure it would work in the middle of this story. He certainly proved me wrong. Everything was beautiful. The fight scenes were brilliant! I could definitely feel the Mandarin's and even more so, Graviton's power. If only I could have both De La Torre and Guice every month. It would be ecstasy.
Mark Parnell
11-02-2007, 09:02 AM
Things are picking up. Like Brubaker on Captain America, the Knauf's have managed to bring back a classic villain from Iron Man's past and make him relevant. The best part about both series is that both the Mandarin and the Red Skull have set into motion plans that truly display how cunning and ruthless both men actually are and both Brubraker and the Knauf's are pacing their respective series at a pace that is perfect, not to decompressed and not to revealing. As a long time comic collector it has been years since two series truly kept me captivated and waiting for the release of the next issue.
CMBMOOL
11-02-2007, 10:57 AM
Seeing the SHRA bite Tony in the ass was the best thing ever.
Just like Steve said it would. :D
Kirk G
11-02-2007, 01:22 PM
Hate to be a complainer, but I thought we had a policy of not posting plot summaries for issues that were coming out, UNTIL THE DAY AFTER they arrived. Yes, I know, this thread is clearly labled SPOILERS, but jees guys, talk about spilling the beans before the rest of us can get to the comic store...
(PS: The installed the new front picture window display glass this week, and though the insides are not completely ready for inhabitants or store set-up, it's nice to see finished, plastered dry walls with drop ceiling and lights installed! This store might actually come back from the grave, albet a bit late...)
Monty_Cristo
11-02-2007, 01:50 PM
mabye the Pit is where skrulls are replacing certain characters.
bulbasteve
11-02-2007, 02:12 PM
It's been the day of release for at least as long as I have been around.
Sean Whitmore
11-03-2007, 08:53 PM
Good issue, even if things are moving a bit too slowly for me. But then, I'm just jonesing for a rematch with the Mandarin, so it might be me being impatient.
My favorite part of the story was Samson "benching" Tony, and here's why.
With an issue like registration, you of course want to show it being a hindrance as often as a help. The easy (and unimaginative, imo) way to do that is just have everyone involved be corrupt and/or stupid.
Instead, Tony is still behaving like a super hero (because there isn't one in the world who hasn't become dangerously obsessed over a case), and nevertheless, Samson is doing the right thing by ordering him to slow down. So now we have Tony being hoisted by his own petard and defying his own rules, but without deaths and cover-ups and such to obscure the issue.
SEAN
Magneto Rocks
11-04-2007, 04:04 AM
Interesting interpretation, Sean. You're right, of course, but I hadn't thought of it like that before.
It's also nice to be reminded that Tony's powers aren't limitless and he is held accountable like everyone else. Of course, God alone knows the legal wrangling involved in a United States Commission benching the director of a UN organization, but I suppose if a psychologist says he needs a break, he needs a break.
One interesting thing is that it actually felt like a betrayal when Maria Hill turned on Tony. This is odd, because she spent almost all of her career being a complete bitch, but in this Iron Man run, she's been more of a human being. Still a hardass, but more human, and I get the feeling she liked Tony. Despite his turning her into a coffee girl.
Billage
11-07-2007, 10:24 PM
Just finished the issue.This is how you do a long stretched out arc properly.Lots of progression.Kudos to the Knaufs.
Oh baby,the ending got me excited to see Tony donning the classic armor without Extremis.Old school!
Will.S
11-07-2007, 10:51 PM
Oh baby,the ending got me excited to see Tony donning the classic armor without Extremis.Old school!
I pretty much had the same reaction to that.
Harold of the Rocks
11-08-2007, 01:06 AM
Love the issue, love the series. It's awesome how the Mandarin storyline is building along in the 'background' -- our hero is not yet aware of his enemy and his goals -- while he is aware that something is up. The Norman Osborn appearance was nice, it is interesting to see the dynamic between the CSA and S.H.I.E.L.D. at work here. And Kooning is a first-rate orifice... the kind that releases digestive waste product and noxious gases. If anyone is gonna get their gluteus bit for their dealings, I say it is him... though I wouldn't be at all surprised if it is a long time coming.
Seeing Mandarin in action was nice, as well. Getting a good look at those rings running the length if his spine was cool, as well. Tony is so close to figuring this out, yet just not quite there... he's got the pieces on the table but hasn't put them together. I agree with ya Mags, about Hill. Compare that to the betrayal of Maya Hansen! Man is that gonna be palpable when that is revealed!
I don't mind the suicide of Graviton so much. I found it shocking, to be sure. I also do feel that his character was somewhat unique. So, on some levels I empathize with those that feel this was a 'good villain' who will be missed. However, here's why it totally works for me...
It adds to the mystery, taking a key witness off the table. Also, he can now be added to the list of ghosts that haunt Tony.It's not totally out of character, in that he's been long established as having serious mental health issues, and by that I mean not just an egomaniacal 'god-complex'. Dude was already teetering on the edge for some time, the way I see it.I would rather have a character who is important and unique off himself, than one who isn't. What if one of these newly-introduced bio-techno integrated terrorist types offed himself? We'd barely notice and it wouldn't have much impact at all on the story. This makes a literary suicide have some weight (bad pun considering the character); there is a sense of tragic loss, as there should be, given the incident.
I also enjoyed the twist with Tony being subjected to part of the law he himself wrote; and he has to abide by it, given his stand on the SHRA. It is a great way to remove him from Extremis for a bit, and see him in his "old car" in upcoming issues. Anyone else get that sense of 'house arrest', seeing him getting the anklet applied? Me neither. ;)
I also have to second the praise of the artists so far. All of them. This book has been beautifully rendered since renumbering, with no exceptions. This book is one of Marvel's best right now, but rarely (if ever) gets the praise it deserves.
Will.S
11-08-2007, 01:17 AM
Love the issue, love the series. It's awesome how the Mandarin storyline is building along in the 'background' -- our hero is not yet aware of his enemy and his goals -- while he is aware that something is up. The Norman Osborn appearance was nice, it is interesting to see the dynamic between the CSA and S.H.I.E.L.D. at work here. And Kooning is a first-rate orifice... the kind that releases digestive waste product and noxious gases. If anyone is gonna get their gluteus bit for their dealings, I say it is him... though I wouldn't be at all surprised if it is a long time coming.
Seeing Mandarin in action was nice, as well. Getting a good look at those rings running the length if his spine was cool, as well. Tony is so close to figuring this out, yet just not quite there... he's got the pieces on the table but hasn't put them together. I agree with ya Mags, about Hill. Compare that to the betrayal of Maya Hansen! Man is that gonna be palpable when that is revealed!
I don't mind the suicide of Graviton so much. I found it shocking, to be sure. I also do feel that his character was somewhat unique. So, on some levels I empathize with those that feel this was a 'good villain' who will be missed. However, here's why it totally works for me...
It adds to the mystery, taking a key witness off the table. Also, he can now be added to the list of ghosts that haunt Tony.It's not totally out of character, in that he's been long established as having serious mental health issues, and by that I mean not just an egomaniacal 'god-complex'. Dude was already teetering on the edge for some time, the way I see it.I would rather have a character who is important and unique off himself, than one who isn't. What if one of these newly-introduced bio-techno integrated terrorist types offed himself? We'd barely notice and it wouldn't have much impact at all on the story. This makes a literary suicide have some weight (bad pun considering the character); there is a sense of tragic loss, as there should be, given the incident.
I also enjoyed the twist with Tony being subjected to part of the law he himself wrote; and he has to abide by it, given his stand on the SHRA. It is a great way to remove him from Extremis for a bit, and see him in his "old car" in upcoming issues. Anyone else get that sense of 'house arrest', seeing him getting the anklet applied? Me neither. ;)
I also have to second the praise of the artists so far. All of them. This book has been beautifully rendered since renumbering, with no exceptions. This book is one of Marvel's best right now, but rarely (if ever) gets the praise it deserves.
Yeah I think as a whole the book has really become a better title because of the sub-plots and the way they fit into the bigger picture. On top of that there's the inevitable and logical breakdown of Tony's mind given that he has so many responsibilities.
I mean yeah, he can multi-task with the best of them but that's gotta be taxing on his mind and body and a break is definitely what the doctor ordered even if he's just 'sorta' taking it..
mattbib
11-08-2007, 06:34 AM
Hate to be a complainer, but I thought we had a policy of not posting plot summaries for issues that were coming out, UNTIL THE DAY AFTER they arrived. Yes, I know, this thread is clearly labled SPOILERS, but jees guys, talk about spilling the beans before the rest of us can get to the comic store...
No, we don't have that policy.
The Avengers forum rule, dating back to Cronin's moderatorship, is:
Discussion threads relating to newly-released issues may be posted at 12:00 AM on the day the issue is released in the United States. Before that, the discussion belongs on the The Avengers Spoiler Thread (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=65243). So if you read an advance copy of an issue you may post there.
One interesting thing is that it actually felt like a betrayal when Maria Hill turned on Tony. This is odd, because she spent almost all of her career being a complete bitch, but in this Iron Man run, she's been more of a human being. Still a hardass, but more human, and I get the feeling she liked Tony. Despite his turning her into a coffee girl.
Maria told on him because she actually cares about his health and well-being. Tony was working on the case non-stop and hadn't bothered on taking the armor off (and take a bath) for a whole week. He was close to being mentally exhausted (though I can't comment on his "extremist" physique) and Samson did the right thing by sending him off on a vacation from himself IMO.
jackolover
12-21-2007, 11:19 PM
One interesting thing is that it actually felt like a betrayal when Maria Hill turned on Tony. This is odd, because she spent almost all of her career being a complete bitch, but in this Iron Man run, she's been more of a human being. Still a hardass, but more human, and I get the feeling she liked Tony. Despite his turning her into a coffee girl.
With the appearance of What If? Civil War (spoiler warning for anyone who hasn't read this),.............
Maria Hill was ready to betray the metas by putting a bullet in the head of Rhodey, so this developement of Hill ratting on Tony fits the stance she took in that book.
Also, is that Gadget on the cover? What does that cover signify, anyway.
bulbasteve
12-21-2007, 11:53 PM
With the appearance of What If? Civil War (spoiler warning for anyone who hasn't read this),.............
Maria Hill was ready to betray the metas by putting a bullet in the head of Rhodey, so this developement of Hill ratting on Tony fits the stance she took in that book.
Also, is that Gadget on the cover? What does that cover signify, anyway.
Is Mags actually banned?! He won't even see your very very late reply!
But noway! That What-If was BUUUULL. Maria Hill is a saint and did it cause she CARES about Tony. A SAINT! :p
Sure, who else would it be on the cover? It's just umm evocative of loss or something, aint it? Sure seems that way to me! What with her eyes closed and all and looking away. Damn nice cover now that I look at it again. Oh poor Gaget....man that was tragic stuff. Never even...met...him...*sobs*
jackolover
12-22-2007, 03:39 AM
Is Mags actually banned?! He won't even see your very very late reply!
But noway! That What-If was BUUUULL. Maria Hill is a saint and did it cause she CARES about Tony. A SAINT! :p
Sure, who else would it be on the cover? It's just umm evocative of loss or something, aint it? Sure seems that way to me! What with her eyes closed and all and looking away. Damn nice cover now that I look at it again. Oh poor Gaget....man that was tragic stuff. Never even...met...him...*sobs*
Don't know if Mags is banned. You can only get banned for 3 days can't you? Not indefinately.
That bitch. She doesn't care about Tony. She thinks he's just one of THEM. And she's gay. What else explains that she hasn't slept with him. A gay murderer!
And you thinks thats gadget? She doesn't even appear in the book? Could it be Iron Maria? Or Iron Maya?
Van Custo
12-22-2007, 09:36 AM
The art is real nice for this book. Good issue. Didn't Graviton toy with all of the Avengers originaly including Tony and Thor? Avengers one fifty....something.
bulbasteve
12-22-2007, 03:07 PM
Don't know if Mags is banned. You can only get banned for 3 days can't you? Not indefinately.
That bitch. She doesn't care about Tony. She thinks he's just one of THEM. And she's gay. What else explains that she hasn't slept with him. A gay murderer!
And you thinks thats gadget? She doesn't even appear in the book? Could it be Iron Maria? Or Iron Maya?
Either way, who will be Iron Man PR guy now!?
Don't be a short-hair bigot! She is the only SHIELD Agent who isn't a blonde bimbo...that Fury was a damn pervert.
And I guess cause Gadget wasn't on a cover yet....plus you know she is a ghost..and has been you know...haunting the book since she died...that's the point! its SUBTLE I'm not surprised you dont get ART ;p
jackolover
12-23-2007, 04:18 AM
Either way, who will be Iron Man PR guy now!?
Don't be a short-hair bigot! She is the only SHIELD Agent who isn't a blonde bimbo...that Fury was a damn pervert.
And I guess cause Gadget wasn't on a cover yet....plus you know she is a ghost..and has been you know...haunting the book since she died...that's the point! its SUBTLE I'm not surprised you dont get ART ;p
Looks like it will be Tobias, and you, maybe.
When I first read your second line, I thought you said I was a short-haired bigot, and I looked around for a hidden camera. How could you know I am bald. But then I re-read it and saw that you way saying I was bigotted towards bald women like Maria Hill. I'm definately in the Fury pervert catagory. However, saying that, I have a real affection for a bitch who has the balls to shoot Rhodes in the head, when she needs too. Hills standing up to Captain America, and trying to arrest him, gave Hill big miliage points in the balls department also. This is a real testosterone woman.
And what do you mean you're not surprised I don't get art? I get Art, I just don't get vague covers.
When I first read your second line, I thought you said I was a short-haired bigot, and I looked around for a hidden camera. How could you know I am bald. But then I re-read it and saw that you way saying I was bigotted towards bald women like Maria Hill. I'm definately in the Fury pervert catagory. However, saying that, I have a real affection for a bitch who has the balls to shoot Rhodes in the head, when she needs too. Hills standing up to Captain America, and trying to arrest him, gave Hill big miliage points in the balls department also. This is a real testosterone woman.
Hill has balls (figuratively and quite possible literally). I don't take that away from her. If she had any brains at all to back that up, I might even respect her for it.
bulbasteve
12-23-2007, 08:22 AM
When I first read your second line, I thought you said I was a short-haired bigot, and I looked around for a hidden camera. How could you know I am bald.
Oh I do know...I do....JACK! (how could I have figured THAT one out! :p)
jackolover
12-23-2007, 04:34 PM
Oh I do know...I do....JACK! (how could I have figured THAT one out! :p)
Lair!!! (Where have you hidden it?).
Are there any new funky features to Tony's armor?
Eclips0
12-23-2007, 06:26 PM
Are there any new funky features to Tony's armor?
Not that I know of, maybe he'll drop the pretense and just wear Doom's armor. That way he can look like a dictator too.
Not that I know of, maybe he'll drop the pretense and just wear Doom's armor. That way he can look like a dictator too.
I could never figure out how Doom's armor never needed an upgrade and Tony's always did.
Will.S
12-23-2007, 07:26 PM
I could never figure out how Doom's armor never needed an upgrade and Tony's always did.
I've wondered that myself but I'm guessing that they're unnoticeable while the armor stays mostly the same.
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