Does the Sinestro Wars Marginalize the Current Supes?

[Captain Smith]

The current Earth-1 (or whatever it's called now) Superman is usually the prime or archetypal superhero for the DCU.

I posit that the Sinestro Wars have made him a bit player in the DCU.

The showdown battle will be between Ion and Supes-Prime. A pre-crisis Kryptonian with a yellow ring (hasn't been seen much though) vs. a Daxamite with a GL ring and Ion, the whale.

Both could whack the current Supes quite nicely unless we have some plot devices. Supes fought S-Prime with a team of other Kryptonians and still got shot through with heat vision and fell back so another team of folks could tackle S-Prime. If S-prime had heat visioned Supes in the forehead, it would have been all over.

What makes him special anymore - just his boy scout personality? He seems to just be one of the high end crowd of folks of equal or even more firepower.

[rZi]

The showdown battle will be between Ion and Supes-Prime. A pre-crisis Kryptonian with a yellow ring

Supes fought S-Prime with a team of other Kryptonians and still got shot through with heat vision and fell back so another team of folks could tackle S-Prime. If S-prime had heat visioned Supes in the forehead, it would have been all over.


He doesn't have a ring

Supes BEAT superboy when he was more powerful than he is now, not to mention he was surrounded by kryptonite at the time.

The team never fell back...after he was hit into the bridge they just took time to get to him and thats when supes was shot. If you look in the panels you can see superman and powergirl are trying to take his armour off too.

[Captain Smith]

That battle with S-P didn't make sense. Blasting through a red sun, etc and landing on Mogo. Not going to bother to dissect it here but in the current battle - I stick by my point that Supes was just part of a mob scene and not a major iconic combatant.

[superfriend]

How powerful Superman is/was has never been what was supposed to make Superman special IMO.

There used to be a time when fans complained that Superman was too powerful, but it's nice that Superman can be felled once in awhile--like he did in JLoA #14.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

What makes him special anymore - just his boy scout personality? He seems to just be one of the high end crowd of folks of equal or even more firepower.

I think it's part his power, and part his personality and stuff.

He should be the most powerful this side of The Spectre and Dr. Fate. In this particular regard, he's not so unique anymore. Which is sad.

However, I feel this is changing: It seems the writers are (EDIT: slowly) making him Pre-Crisis powerful again.

[Captain Smith]

I always felt he should be tops of the physical continuum of heroes. There are too many folks that are his equal nowadays.

Supes - physical
Spectre - supernatural

Then the rest are lesser. Today if the original Doomsday showed up, he would be a yawn - he would be mobbed by Kryptonians, GLs, Marvels and Aquaman!

[rZi]

I think it's part his power, and part his personality and stuff.

He should be the most powerful this side of The Spectre and Dr. Fate. In this particular regard, he's not so unique anymore. Which is sad.

However, I feel this is changing: It seems the writers are (EDIT: slowly) making him Pre-Crisis powerful again.

I pray he doesnt get his strength back...for example

It's better to read:

A weak supes who takes a beating and is not going to win every fight

than

A stupidly strong it bores me move another planet whatever supes who you instantly know is going to win BECAUSE he's just supes.


sorry but i like a hero to loose =D

[livin_target]

I pray he doesnt get his strength back...for example

It's better to read:

A weak supes who takes a beating and is not going to win every fight

than

A stupidly strong it bores me move another planet whatever supes who you instantly know is going to win BECAUSE he's just supes.


sorry but i like a hero to loose =D

I don't think its so much Superman's power level but the power level of the other heroes around him. Theoretically, heroes such as flash and green lantern (and martian manhunter, and captain marvel, and firestorm etc) can beat him with relative ease(not to mention you have about 4 kryptonians on the planet) and it becomes difficult to see how he even managed to achieve the role of DC's greatest hero. However, making superman too powerful can sometimes piss off other heroes fans and makes it feel like those heroes are redundant. I think Wonder Woman suffers from this more because she's generally regarded as slightly less powerful than superman and while he does get his pushes, she doesn't seem to get her chance to shine.

I think that the reason the corps war makes Superman feel marginalized is because it is a big event (Sinestro's got the fricking Anti Monitor) but it's a green lantern event and it should be green lantern who saves the day(even although 2 of the big villians are wearing S-shields). However, when you look at Superman's books, while the writing quality is good, nothing anywhere near as big is happening and the constant delays and reshufflings have shot down the momentum of some of the better stories (camelot falls and last son).

[G. Wayne]

I prefer Superman being in the Top Tier of powerful heroes. Gives more meaning to threats like the new Injustice Gang, or SBP and Henshaw with power rings, that Superman *alone* can't take them on. Even he needs help, or another uber-character like a Daxamite with the Ion Power (who's supposed to be the greatest Green Lantern ever anyway.)

...
What makes him special anymore - just his boy scout personality? He seems to just be one of the high end crowd of folks of equal or even more firepower.

I think of it as more of his iconic status in the DCU. Lower tier heroes step up their game and attitude to match him when he's around.

There was a sequence back around the time of the Battle for Bludhaven. Superman was trying to tell Tim Drake to do something, and Drake starting arguing back. (Which goes against what I said for Supes, but it helped strengthen Robin's character at the time that he was standing up for what he believed.) The funny thing about the scene was that Drake was pointing at Clark as he was arguing with him, and another Titan in the background mumbles something like.
"He's pointing at Superman! Can you even *do* that?!"

[666MasterOfPuppets]

I always felt he should be tops of the physical continuum of heroes. There are too many folks that are his equal nowadays.

Supes - physical
Spectre - supernatural

Then the rest are lesser. Today if the original Doomsday showed up, he would be a yawn - he would be mobbed by Kryptonians, GLs, Marvels and Aquaman!

Agreed. Wholeheartedly. And... Aquaman? Are you being sarcastic?

I pray he doesnt get his strength back...for example

It's better to read:

A weak supes who takes a beating and is not going to win every fight

than

A stupidly strong it bores me move another planet whatever supes who you instantly know is going to win BECAUSE he's just supes.


sorry but i like a hero to loose =D

Not necessarily, I think. A good example is Grant Morrison's All Star Superman.

And hey, no need to be sorry.

[Sean Whitmore]

A stupidly strong it bores me move another planet whatever supes who you instantly know is going to win BECAUSE he's just supes.

You usually know he's going to win because it says "Superman" on the front of the book, too. :)


SEAN

[botch]

Superman is the archtypal Superhero. But he's not the most powerful.

It's pretty much been written now that Superboy-Prime is the most powerful bad guy in the DCU with Sodam Yat now the most powerful good guy.

[Sean Whitmore]

Someone remind me who Sodam Yat is? I feel like I should know, and yet I can't quite remember.

A cast member from GL Corps, I assume?


SEAN

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Sodom Yat is the prophecized Ubermench Daxamite of the Corps created by Alan Moore during his Abin Sur Empire of Tears story. Which is one of the best GL stories of the eighties.

He's recently been introduced in the GLCorps monthly as an ultra-cocky rookie whose actually got the goods to back up his bravado. And there's a big fight a brewin' between Superboy-Prime and him next issue.

[botch]

Someone remind me who Sodam Yat is? I feel like I should know, and yet I can't quite remember.

A cast member from GL Corps, I assume?


SEAN

Sodam Yat is a very courageous and strong Rookie Green Lantern. He is cocky but humble(if that makes sense) but as other Lanterns have noted he is as good as most veterans. There is a prophecy(written by Alan Moore) that he is the Ultimate Green Lantern.

He is a Daxamite so under a yellow sun he gets Superman like powers and coupled with a GL ring and his own courage he makes for a super powerful Green Lantern.

He attacks the Anti-Monitor and lives and tries again, the Guardians then decide that his Strength and Courage have convinced them to bestow upon him the Ion Power, which will boost his Green Lantern powers to near Godlike levels. So couple Superman powers + A Green Lantern Ring + Ion + Strength and Courage = Ultimate Green Lantern. The most powerful Superhero in the Universe.

[Mr Blinky]

I posit that the Sinestro Wars have made him a bit player in the DCU.


Well, he is. He's the greatest superhero alive - but only on earth.

When it comes to the universe as a whole, he's known to certain members of certain races. He's tussled with Lobo, Darkseid, Mongul and the Dominators. He's respected by the denizens of New Genesis, he's had dealings with the GLC and so on. The vast majority of beings alive in the D.C.U. have probably never heard of him though.

Mind you, when you think about, even a 'bit-player' is pretty impressive, when he's a bit-player on a universal scale.

[botch]

He's a bit player power wise, but many galaxies in the universe know him as the greatest superhero there is.

[Slaughter]

You also have to account for experience. Sodam got his powers what, ten minutes ago? Superman has powers since he's a teen, he had time to pratice and exerts control of his powers in a way No other Kryptonian is going to do alike. Sodam is not even fully charged yet. When he was a toddler, Supes was already defeating menaces that could destroy the earth with a thought. Superman's is the last son of Krypton, The Man of Steel, The greatest hero of all. Sodam Yat is just a very cocky Daxamite rookie Green Lantern that just got powered with yellow sun energy and the Ion Power. Sorry, but Supes >>> Sodam. While I believe Sodam can give Prime a run for his money, Supes could easily humilate Sodam due to his rookieness and inexperience.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

He's a bit player power wise, but many galaxies in the universe know him as the greatest superhero there is.

Yep, aliens from far-away galaxies have come to Earth looking for his help.

[Green Lantern wannabe]

I have the issue with the Empire of Tears, but that is just a prediction; I wonder how the editors are going to work that prediction into the DCU reality.

Actually, since that prediction was made by an imprisoned evil villian, it should not be considered reliable - I mean, would YOU trust someone like that? If you do, there's a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you. :D

[Stanlos]

That battle with S-P didn't make sense. Blasting through a red sun, etc and landing on Mogo. Not going to bother to dissect it here but in the current battle - I stick by my point that Supes was just part of a mob scene and not a major iconic combatant.

Yeah, that was just one of the many "WTF were they smoking?" moments of INFINITE CRISIS.

HELLO? Kryptonite kills Superman after prolonged exposure and limited exposure saps his powers.

It's a good thing the first few issues had great art and the coverse was fab.