superman's other weakness

[Lord Trigon]

I 'm writing this fan fiction and a character gets into a fight with superman. this character has no powers so he spends time thinking about how to beat him.

I've read a few comics where I see batman or other characters carrying him and when they do his arms and legs dangle. so it doesn't take superhuman strength to move his arms or legs just gravity or some one pulling on them.

So I'm wondering could he be weak to join dislocations or anything that bends his lims in a way that he can move them. (like bending his leg behind his back)

[rZi]

I don't think you can really write supes hurting without using atleast 1 of the following:

1) Kryptonite (duh!)
2) Red Sun light
3) Someone stupidly strong to just generaly beat him

[Knight Lancer]

His legs are dangling because his muscles are relaxed, but if Superman doesn't want something to move him, generally, he's not going to be moved.

I mean, it's like trying to bend back a normal guy's arm: They're going to resist you. Now, if Superman was resisting you, then there's no way in hell a normal person will do anything to him, ever.

[Green Lantern wannabe]

Wine, women and song - works with every red-blooded Kryptonian male. :D

[rwe1138]

I don't think you can really write supes hurting without using atleast 1 of the following:

1) Kryptonite (duh!)
2) Red Sun light
3) Someone stupidly strong to just generaly beat him

And magic. ;)

[Captain Smith]

Wine, women and song - works with every red-blooded Kryptonian male. :D

It's pretty well been established that Kryptonian males aren't really that sexually motivated. They tend to fixate on one woman to the exclusion of all others. Clark went through the weirdness of wanting Lois to want him as wussy Clark rather than Supes. He could have done her a zillion times before they got married - which only happened because his ID leaked.

The original TV Supes was pretty asexual. Smallville Clark is quite a good looking guy but whined about Lana till he finally got her. He could have nailed Chloe a zillion times also.

As Supes, Kal-el could do the Hollywood scene and have Angelina, Jennifer, numerous Jessicas, etc. at his feet.

What are his current weakness:

1. Kryptonite
2. Magic affects him like other folk
3. Massive amounts of energy or whacking at levels that exceed his strength
4. Red sun (not sure) - do they still weaken him?

As far as leverage moves, if Supes doesn't resist he is subject to gravity and leverage. Batman has tossed him. However, with superreflexes he should avoid such movies and flight powers would negate a toss. Also, even his weakest muscles would be stronger than the strongest human trying to put him in some pain complaiance marital arts move.

[rZi]

How could i forget magic?! i feel silly..

[Dark Ben]

you also forgot brendon routh ^^

[Lord Trigon]

What are his current weakness:

1. Kryptonite
2. Magic affects him like other folk
3. Massive amounts of energy or whacking at levels that exceed his strength
4. Red sun (not sure) - do they still weaken him?

As far as leverage moves, if Supes doesn't resist he is subject to gravity and leverage. Batman has tossed him. However, with superreflexes he should avoid such movies and flight powers would negate a toss. Also, even his weakest muscles would be stronger than the strongest human trying to put him in some pain complaiance marital arts move.


hum...yeah that's the problem if he was on the ground he's still too fast for someone to anything like that. but as for conner I remember robin trying to hit him with a nerve strike but failed. how fast would a person have to be to catch superman by surprise if he was fighting some else and you jumped in; like cassandra cain fast or over any human level.

[Captain Smith]

That's a big problem. Supes gets whacked by normal speed folks all the time in wonder CIS and PIS.

If there was a Supes, no one short of a Flash, Martian, WW or other speedster should touch him.

[Ironman2978]

I don't think you can really write supes hurting without using atleast 1 of the following:

1) Kryptonite (duh!)
2) Red Sun light
3) Someone stupidly strong to just generaly beat him

Supe's weakness

Kryptonite
red sun light
can't see through lead
magic
on a planet with stronger gravity
super speedsters like the flash
Someone strong enough to beat him up

[Lord Trigon]

That's a big problem. Supes gets whacked by normal speed folks all the time in wonder CIS and PIS.

If there was a Supes, no one short of a Flash, Martian, WW or other speedster should touch him.


:p can you explain what CIS and PIS is.

[livin_target]

:p can you explain what CIS and PIS is.

Character induced stupidity and Plot induced stupidity. They cover stuff like why superman doesn't just speedblitz from the get go, or how flash's rogues (barring zoom) can actually do anything to him.

[dreyga2000]

You forgot he's vunerable Psychic Attack...

Apparently (according to Up,Up, and Away) Superman can subciously nullifiy his powers

In theory a sabtoaged teleporter could kill Supes by scattering his molecues

[Dracon]

Also, although it hasn't been touched on much, his stores of sunlight are finite.

It's pretty well been established that Kryptonian males aren't really that sexually motivated. They tend to fixate on one woman to the exclusion of all others.

You know, that actually sounds like kryptonian women got to work on the mens genetic code for a bit?

[Lord Trigon]

Character induced stupidity and Plot induced stupidity. They cover stuff like why superman doesn't just speedblitz from the get go, or how flash's rogues (barring zoom) can actually do anything to him.

oh I see; that happends alot well this is more of a case of CIS because of what's happening. I was writing a countdown to crisis story. It's about him being under the control of max so most likely wont notice someone with out powers/ little power.

[BoosterBronze]

Does it hurt Superman to get kicked in the junk?

I mean, I know bullets bounce off him, but he must feel something? Does it sting? If Doomsday punching Superman hurt him, would Doomsday kicking Superman in the package hurt a great deal more?

[Sizzle]

Does it hurt Superman to get kicked in the junk?

I mean, I know bullets bounce off him, but he must feel something? Does it sting? If Doomsday punching Superman hurt him, would Doomsday kicking Superman in the package hurt a great deal more?

You know, I just got home from the hospital, and it hurt like hell laughing at your post. That was awesome.

Don't forget another superman weakeness, his attachment to humans. All those close to him are ways to get at him.

I think the superspeed is a valid point, but if he did everything at superspeed he might have to worry about the collateral damage from wind, heat, etc.

[livin_target]

Does it hurt Superman to get kicked in the junk?

I mean, I know bullets bounce off him, but he must feel something? Does it sting? If Doomsday punching Superman hurt him, would Doomsday kicking Superman in the package hurt a great deal more?

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b352/idres/Scans_Daily/Wham.jpg

[dancj]

Silver Age Superman had a weakness to tobacco smoke

[Slaughter]

Also, don't forget to add that a Green Lantern Ring can simulate Kryptonite, Jade and Allan Scott, in theory, could do that too. His solar energy can be drained (Parasite does this all the time, Ruin did it once, too) Also, Firestorm can make Kryptonite and in theory, Qwardian Power Rings could simulate Gold Kryptonite, as both are yellow.

Also, Darkseid Omega's Effect can really hurt him bad.

[Sijo]

He can also be affected by ultrasonics, which makes sense given his superhearing. You rarely see that these days, though.

On the other hand, while he's not psychic his will is strong enough to block most direct attempts to read his mind or mind-control him (Thank goodness.) Even Brainiac, when he was a telepath, couldn't do it. (More subtle manipulation works on him thought.)

Increased gravity weakens him. That's how Geo-Force managed to fight him in an Outsiders story. That's Pre-Crisis stuff, of course; still, super-heavy gravity would still be a problem even for him.

His energy store is indeed finite, he ran out of power in Superman vs Aliens while away from any visible stars (not officially canon, but he has lost strength in space in some other stories.)

As for magic, Supes is vulnerable to magic SPELLS, not simply things that are magic. Otherwise he couldn't begin the fight the likes of Captain Marvel.

[Mr Blinky]

As for magic, Supes is vulnerable to magic SPELLS, not simply things that are magic. Otherwise he couldn't begin the fight the likes of Captain Marvel.

That's not strictly true: Captain Marvel once knocked him out cold with just two punches in an issue of the Grant Morrison era JLA. He explained to the android Hourman that he was only able to do it because A) they were sucker punches and B) Supes is vulnerable to magic.

In an issue of the Demon, (the Political Asylum story line) Etrigan is able to hurt Supes with physical force, due to his supernatural nature. Supes actually cries out in pain when he takes a blast of fire breath in the face: he's fine with fire normally, so it must have been the magical component of the flame that hurt him.

Dr. Occult's amulet has burned him, he cut his finger on one of Wonder Woman's edged weapons in Kingdom Come (though that might not count as canon).

Does he still need to breathe? Back in the 90's he did, and it was a weakness that nearly did him in a few times. I think Power Girl doesn't, but then she's from a different Krypton...:confused:

[Rockman]

That's not strictly true: Captain Marvel once knocked him out cold with just two punches in an issue of the Grant Morrison era JLA. He explained to the android Hourman that he was only able to do it because A) they were sucker punches and B) Supes is vulnerable to magic.

In an issue of the Demon, (the Political Asylum story line) Etrigan is able to hurt Supes with physical force, due to his supernatural nature. Supes actually cries out in pain when he takes a blast of fire breath in the face: he's fine with fire normally, so it must have been the magical component of the flame that hurt him.

Dr. Occult's amulet has burned him, he cut his finger on one of Wonder Woman's edged weapons in Kingdom Come (though that might not count as canon).

Does he still need to breathe? Back in the 90's he did, and it was a weakness that nearly did him in a few times. I think Power Girl doesn't, but then she's from a different Krypton...:confused:

The breathing in space is not a issue anymore in the comics.

[Mr Blinky]

The breathing in space is not a issue anymore in the comics.

Was there a story in which this changed for some reason, or did TPTB just decide he didn't need air anymore? 'Cause I actually kinda liked that weakness; it kept him just short of being one of those cosmic hero types.

[Slyfer]

Supe's weakness

Kryptonite
red sun light
can't see through lead
magic
on a planet with stronger gravity
super speedsters like the flash
Someone strong enough to beat him up


Interesting the Superman o Earth 22 from JSA stood up to the full extent of Starman's gravity powers .... I wonder if Clark would fair better
:confused:

[Rockman]

Was there a story in which this changed for some reason, or did TPTB just decide he didn't need air anymore? 'Cause I actually kinda liked that weakness; it kept him just short of being one of those cosmic hero types.

Just so superman could have more space adventures, just like the other Kryptonians could stay in space for a long time.



http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/2034/superman6699td0.th.jpg (http://img145.imageshack.us/my.php?image=superman6699td0.jpg)

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/7289/superman66910cl8.th.jpg (http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=superman66910cl8.jpg)

Plus how different is powergirl to superman?

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/3783/braveandthebold07page13pn5.th.jpg (http://img502.imageshack.us/my.php?image=braveandthebold07page13pn5.jpg)
Slyfer Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironman2978
Supe's weakness

Kryptonite
red sun light
can't see through lead
magic
on a planet with stronger gravity
super speedsters like the flash
Someone strong enough to beat him up


Interesting the Superman o Earth 22 from JSA stood up to the full extent of Starman's gravity powers .... I wonder if Clark would fair better


I think clark could do the same.

[Sijo]

Granted, Superman's magic weakness has been misinterpreted several times across the decades; I remember a story where vampires were also able to hurt him. But so have other of his weaknesses and abilities. I think originally, this weakness was established to explain how Mxzyptlk could affect him with his powers; plus it was easier to find magic in the DCU than Kryptonite. Still, in the end, Superman cannot just be "Ow, I cut my finger on a magic blade" kind of vulnerable to magic; there are too many superstrong magical enemies in the DCU and it would be pathetic if all of them could own Supes.

As for breathing, he DID need to breathe in the Byrne days, but apparently not anymore; chalk it up to being repowered several times. He also doesn't need to sleep but he DOES need to dream (which is true of all humans; see what happened to Doctor Destiny.)

[Stanlos]

I 'm writing this fan fiction and a character gets into a fight with superman. this character has no powers so he spends time thinking about how to beat him.

I've read a few comics where I see batman or other characters carrying him and when they do his arms and legs dangle. so it doesn't take superhuman strength to move his arms or legs just gravity or some one pulling on them.

So I'm wondering could he be weak to join dislocations or anything that bends his lims in a way that he can move them. (like bending his leg behind his back)

Superman's bones can be broken and have been broken--but if your guy has no powers and doesn't have godly martial skills, that is out of the question. In order to dislocate Superman's extremities, I would think you would need to be stupidly strong (there's maybe two DCUers that could do it) and retardedly fast. AND you would have to hide these traits because if he is prepared for you and not otherwise distracted then you will have a heck of a time trying to do the DEED plus overcoming Superman's efforts against the accomplishment of that deed.

I think surprise deployment of powerful magic or Kryptonite would be the best way.

Unless you can phase his and your own molecules.

[Stanlos]

That's not strictly true: Captain Marvel once knocked him out cold with just two punches in an issue of the Grant Morrison era JLA. He explained to the android Hourman that he was only able to do it because A) they were sucker punches and B) Supes is vulnerable to magic.

In an issue of the Demon, (the Political Asylum story line) Etrigan is able to hurt Supes with physical force, due to his supernatural nature. Supes actually cries out in pain when he takes a blast of fire breath in the face: he's fine with fire normally, so it must have been the magical component of the flame that hurt him.

Dr. Occult's amulet has burned him, he cut his finger on one of Wonder Woman's edged weapons in Kingdom Come (though that might not count as canon).

Does he still need to breathe? Back in the 90's he did, and it was a weakness that nearly did him in a few times. I think Power Girl doesn't, but then she's from a different Krypton...:confused:

Adding to the Captain Marvel example, is FLASH #162. The power of Zeus adds magic to Cap's punches--very potent magic of divine origin.

[Stanlos]

It's pretty well been established that Kryptonian males aren't really that sexually motivated. They tend to fixate on one woman to the exclusion of all others. Clark went through the weirdness of wanting Lois to want him as wussy Clark rather than Supes. He could have done her a zillion times before they got married - which only happened because his ID leaked.

The original TV Supes was pretty asexual. Smallville Clark is quite a good looking guy but whined about Lana till he finally got her. He could have nailed Chloe a zillion times also.



What did you think of the Clark character from LOIS & CLARK?

[Sijo]

Adding to the Captain Marvel example, is FLASH #162. The power of Zeus adds magic to Cap's punches--very potent magic of divine origin. This is indeed correct, and it was established long before that Flash story (in a Pre-Crisis World's Finest Story, where Cap pulled the Holy Moly herb off the ground, something even Hercules could not do.) It just doesn't get pointed out much. It's very possible Cap is actually *stronger* than Supes, but if so, you won't get most DC folk to admit it. :rolleyes:

[dancj]

That's not strictly true: Captain Marvel once knocked him out cold with just two punches in an issue of the Grant Morrison era JLA. He explained to the android Hourman that he was only able to do it because A) they were sucker punches and B) Supes is vulnerable to magic.
It is true, but writers sometimes (as in the case you quote) get it wrong.

If Captain Marvel's fists are enchanted to do damage then they would damage Supes. If the magic just made him really strong (as I believe it does) then he would hurt Superman exactly as much as someone who was that strong without magic would hurt Superman.

[Stanlos]

It is true, but writers sometimes (as in the case you quote) get it wrong.

If Captain Marvel's fists are enchanted to do damage then they would damage Supes. If the magic just made him really strong (as I believe it does) then he would hurt Superman exactly as much as someone who was that strong without magic would hurt Superman.

The strength of Hercules enables the latter part. But the power of Zeus does the former and the two work together.

[Lord Trigon]

Granted, Superman's magic weakness has been misinterpreted several times across the decades; I remember a story where vampires were also able to hurt him. But so have other of his weaknesses and abilities. I think originally, this weakness was established to explain how Mxzyptlk could affect him with his powers; plus it was easier to find magic in the DCU than Kryptonite. Still, in the end, Superman cannot just be "Ow, I cut my finger on a magic blade" kind of vulnerable to magic; there are too many superstrong magical enemies in the DCU and it would be pathetic if all of them could own Supes.

As for breathing, he DID need to breathe in the Byrne days, but apparently not anymore; chalk it up to being repowered several times. He also doesn't need to sleep but he DOES need to dream (which is true of all humans; see what happened to Doctor Destiny.)
I remember this happing in infinite crisis too he cut his hand trying to stop wonder woman from killing some one.


Superman's bones can be broken and have been broken--but if your guy has no powers and doesn't have godly martial skills, that is out of the question. In order to dislocate Superman's extremities, I would think you would need to be stupidly strong (there's maybe two DCUers that could do it) and retardedly fast. AND you would have to hide these traits because if he is prepared for you and not otherwise distracted then you will have a heck of a time trying to do the DEED plus overcoming Superman's efforts against the accomplishment of that deed.

I think surprise deployment of powerful magic or Kryptonite would be the best way.

Unless you can phase his and your own molecules.


he's under the control of max lord in this story. They guy who does this looks harmless. I don't think retardedly fast is needed the main problem is how long does it take for clark under mind control to understand what this guy is doing.

it goes like this. clask is fighting wonder woman; they are fighting on the ground. The guy is standing about 50 feet away and walking towards them. when she lifts superman off the ground the guy rushes in and tries a hip dislocation. If he fails how close does he come and what's likely to happen next with max in control.

[dancj]

The strength of Hercules enables the latter part. But the power of Zeus does the former and the two work together.
That doesn't sound like magical damage to me. That sounds like magic giving Captain Marvel the strength and power to do physical damage so Superman's invulnerability should work against Captain Marvel (though whether that's enough depends on exactly how powerful Marvel is)

[Mr Blinky]

Something new occurred to me today: could disease kill Supes?

I remember an old Alan Moore Superman/Swamp Thing cross-over, in which Kal-El is infected by Kryptonian fungus found on a crashed meteor (it was clear he would have died without ST's help) and I dimly recall a parallel Superman being killed by Gog infecting him with illness in The Kingdom.

Now, he seems immune to any illness found on earth, but is that because he has a hyper-evolved immune system that protects him against any sickness, or just because his alien physiology is too different for our germs to affect him?

Could a Daxamite plague harm him? Could Sinestro get Despotellis to take him down? :confused:

Just a thought...

[Stanlos]

That doesn't sound like magical damage to me. That sounds like magic giving Captain Marvel the strength and power to do physical damage so Superman's invulnerability should work against Captain Marvel (though whether that's enough depends on exactly how powerful Marvel is)

I think checking out the FLASH example may change your mind.

[marshal99]

Something new occurred to me today: could disease kill Supes?

I remember an old Alan Moore Superman/Swamp Thing cross-over, in which Kal-El is infected by Kryptonian fungus found on a crashed meteor (it was clear he would have died without ST's help) and I dimly recall a parallel Superman being killed by Gog infecting him with illness in The Kingdom.

Now, he seems immune to any illness found on earth, but is that because he has a hyper-evolved immune system that protects him against any sickness, or just because his alien physiology is too different for our germs to affect him?

Could a Daxamite plague harm him? Could Sinestro get Despotellis to take him down? :confused:

Just a thought...

Well , Virus X can definitely kill him.
http://www.supermanica.info/wiki/index.php/Virus_X

[Lord Trigon]

heay...I just thought. can he tell if food is spicy or not if he can it means he's weak to peppers.....

[livin_target]

heay...I just thought. can he tell if food is spicy or not if he can it means he's weak to peppers.....

The guy can swallow lava, I don't think peppers are gonna do the trick.

[Lord Trigon]

but I was just saying if you can taste it you're getting burned.

[captain_unimpressive]

That doesn't sound like magical damage to me. That sounds like magic giving Captain Marvel the strength and power to do physical damage so Superman's invulnerability should work against Captain Marvel (though whether that's enough depends on exactly how powerful Marvel is)

Well, there's magic-enhanced punches, and then there's magic punches.
It's not like these are magic steroids that give Cap superhuman muscles. He has energy, divine Greco-Roman demigod energy, in his punches. Sort of an aura around his fists.
It's like if the steroids didn't just stimulate muscle growth, they actually collected in your fists, so that when you puched someone your sweat glands would spray steroids all over the place.
That's what the S in SHAZAM is for. Spray.