Why is the Silver/Bronze Age Earth-One Superman missing from continuity?

[Buried Alien]

INFINITE CRISIS and its aftermath have brought back and brought forth a whole plethora of Superman variants. In addition to the mainstream, Post-COIE Superman, we've seen the following appear prominently in DC's comics during the past two years:

1. Kal-L, the Superman of Earth-Two (Golden Age Superman)

2. Superboy/man of Earth-Prime

3. Conner Kent, Superboy (Post-COIE Earth)

4. KINGDOM COME Superman (Earth-22)

5. "future" Superman from SUPERMAN/BATMAN

6. ALL-STAR Superman


...and a host of ELSEWORLDS Supermen from throughout the 52 Multiverse.

But a very prominent Superman has been missing from all this.

Where in the Multiverse is the Pre-COIE, Silver/Bronze Age Superman of Earth-One? The one whose cousin Supergirl died fighting the Anti-Monitor? The one who was the mainstream Superman of the comics from the 1950s until 1986?

He's not the same character as the current mainstream Superman. Why is he the only version of Superman not accounted for in current comics?

In some ways, the Silver/Bronze Age Superman is the most iconic interpretation of the character. But it seems that DC has been shunning this interpretation. The Post-BIRTHRIGHT Superman and ALL-STAR Superman are approximations of the Silver/Bronze Age version, but they are not identical to the Silver/Bronze Age character.

Where is the Superman of Earth-One?

Eleven years ago, that question started my posting days at CBR. :)

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Rik Levins]

He's not "super" anymore.

That guy's story was wrapped up in "Whatever Happened To The Man Of Tomorrow". He ended up sacrificing his powers with Gold Kryptonite, marrying Lois, and settling down to live out the rest of his days as a normal man.

So...what would be the point of reintroducing him? Let the guy have his well-earned retirement.

Now, their kid...

[Green Lantern wannabe]

He's not "super" anymore.

That guy's story was wrapped up in "Whatever Happened To The Man Of Tomorrow". He ended up sacrificing his powers with Gold Kryptonite, marrying Lois, and settling down to live out the rest of his days as a normal man.

So...what would be the point of reintroducing him? Let the guy have his well-earned retirement.

Now, their kid...

That's correct - I have that episode, and it was a good story. As for their kid, that would be a good story, because, at the end, he did turn a lump of coal into a diamond.

[Killer Frost]

One of the most famous Bronze Age stories, Alan Moore's "For the Man Who Has Everything", was given to the New Earth Superman. The Black Mercy plant is in his fortess.

New Earth One would be an bleak landscape if WHTTMT is the main continuity there. Yay for little Jonathan Ellliot but Lana, Jimmy, Lex, Supergirl, Krypto, Bizarro, Brainiac, the Kryptonite Man and Mxyzptlk are all dead and a big chunk of the pre-ciris Earth One mythos went with them.

It's my feeling that most of the iconography of the Silver and Bronze Age Superman will be transferred to New Earth Supes and combined with the major movie tropes to make him the definitive Superman of the 21st century. Giving him the Silver/Bronze Age Legion of Super-Heroes is a big move in that direction.

It's a cheat, really, but what can you do?

[bethanycabe69]

He's where the powers that be at DC want him - only in our memories and past stories that "never" happened. :( They know people want him back, and like to say "maybe" or "someday". Yeah, right:mad:

[Captain Jim]

He's not "super" anymore.

That guy's story was wrapped up in "Whatever Happened To The Man Of Tomorrow". He ended up sacrificing his powers with Gold Kryptonite, marrying Lois, and settling down to live out the rest of his days as a normal man.

So...what would be the point of reintroducing him? Let the guy have his well-earned retirement.

Now, their kid...

I seem to recall that that story was labeled an imaginary story.

[The Batman]

Aren't they all?

[The Batman]

Seriously though, maybe we're thinking about this the wrong way. Maybe instead of thinking of him as Silver/Bronze Age Superman we should think of him as main universe continuity Superman. In which case he became the modern guy.

[bethanycabe69]

Seriously though, maybe we're thinking about this the wrong way. Maybe instead of thinking of him as Silver/Bronze Age Superman we should think of him as main universe continuity Superman. In which case he became the modern guy.




..........And maybe that idea is lamer than an ankle with a compound fracture.:D

[The Batman]

Nope.

An idea that's lamer than an ankle with a compound fracture is thinking that an imaginary story never "happened" because another imaginary story says it didn't and then getting upset about it.

:D

[SKETCHSANCHEZ]

Perhaps he's still around, and DC plans to drop his big return on us like a bomb.

If I remember correctly, DC has made it a point to point out that New Earth is NOT Earth-1, there is an Earth-1 but they havent showed it or even teased us with it for some reason. We know there is an earth-2, they've showed us, so there must be an Earth-1 if New Earth isnt it and if theres an Earth-1 then theres a Superman on it.

[Buried Alien]

Perhaps he's still around, and DC plans to drop his big return on us like a bomb.

That's what I'm hoping.

Perhaps in the darkest hour of FINAL CRISIS, when all the chips are down and nobody seems capable of turning the tide, the most powerful incarnation of Superman will finally re-emerge to save the day.

And hopefully, Barry Allen will be right there with him. :)

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[BoosterBronze]

That's what I'm hoping.

Perhaps in the darkest hour of FINAL CRISIS, when all the chips are down and nobody seems capable of turning the tide, the most powerful incarnation of Superman will finally re-emerge to save the day.


If you're not joking I think that might be the worst possible thing to ever happen in the history of everything.

I'm a lifelong comic geek and I am getting pretty confused/bored with stories based on convulted publishing histories and retcons built on retcons based on previous retcons that were themselves retconed.

Someone: "Look, up in the sky! It's Superman!"

Someone Else: "But Superman, Old Superman, and Old Superman from the future are already here!"

Someone: "No! This is Superman that wasn't Old Superman, but is very similar to him, only he was turned into New Superman by John Byrne, only he wasn't really, and New Superman isn't New Superman anymore! Here, read this copy of Birthright."

Someone Else: "Why?"

Someone: "I don't know!"

[Buried Alien]

If you're not joking I think that might be the worst possible thing to ever happen in the history of everything.

I'm a lifelong comic geek and I am getting pretty confused/bored with stories based on convulted publishing histories and retcons built on retcons based on previous retcons that were themselves retconed.

Someone: "Look, up in the sky! It's Superman!"

Someone Else: "But Superman, Old Superman, and Old Superman from the future are already here!"

Someone: "No! This is Superman that wasn't Old Superman, but is very similar to him, only he was turned into New Superman by John Byrne, only he wasn't really, and New Superman isn't New Superman anymore! Here, read this copy of Birthright."

Someone Else: "Why?"

Someone: "I don't know!"

The way I see it, DC created this mess, so it's responsible for cleaning it up.

Just leaving the mess a mess isn't going to do.

How does introducing yet another Superman help matters? I feel that this particular Superman is really THE Superman.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Mr.50]

I like the idea but I don't see how bringing him back at the last moment would really fix the "darkest moment" since he wasn't able to do much against the Anti-Monitor in COIE and really it was Kal-L that KO'ed the Anti-Monitor at the end.

Mr.50

[Bored at 3:00AM]

The Bronze Age Superman's swan song by Alan Moore and Curt Swan was so nicely done, I seriously doubt anyone is going to bring that incarnation back again just to satisfy a dozen or so readers who haven't figured out that's what Grant Morrison's already done in All Star Superman.

[stealthwise]

The Bronze Age Superman's swan song by Alan Moore and Curt Swan was so nicely done, I seriously doubt anyone is going to bring that incarnation back again just to satisfy a dozen or so readers who haven't figured out that's what Grant Morrison's already done in All Star Superman.

Perfectly worded, chum.

[Buried Alien]

The Bronze Age Superman's swan song by Alan Moore and Curt Swan was so nicely done, I seriously doubt anyone is going to bring that incarnation back again just to satisfy a dozen or so readers who haven't figured out that's what Grant Morrison's already done in All Star Superman.

Morrison's ALL STAR Superman is a close approximation of, but not the same as the Silver/Bronze Age Superman. It comes down to the history, which ALL STAR Superman doesn't have. ALL STAR Superman hasn't seen his cousin Supergirl killed in the universe's worst crisis up to that point (among hundreds of myriad experiences attributable to no other incarnation of Superman other than the bona fide Silver/Bronze Age Superman).

It also doesn't help matters that ALL STAR Superman has Jay Leno's chin; not the iconic image of the Pre-COIE Superman I'm looking for. :)

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Mr.50]

any thoughts?

I know Silver/Bronze Supes was supposed to have the largest powerup but then why was it Kal-L that retired the anti-monitor?

Mr.50

I like the idea but I don't see how bringing him back at the last moment would really fix the "darkest moment" since he wasn't able to do much against the Anti-Monitor in COIE and really it was Kal-L that KO'ed the Anti-Monitor at the end.

Mr.50

[Buried Alien]

any thoughts?

I know Silver/Bronze Supes was supposed to have the largest powerup but then why was it Kal-L that retired the anti-monitor?

Mr.50

Kal-L represented (if not literally was) the original Superman...the one that debuted the entire franchise in ACTION COMICS # 1 back in 1938. It was poetic justice that the most terrible menace ever to threaten the DC Universe (and indeed, would bring an end to the continuity that had been building since 1938) would finally be brought down by the first DC superhero.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Mr.50]

Oh sure Buried. You are absolutly correct when we tak into account the real world's effect on comic story lines but I was just thinking why would the most powerful guy (Silver/Bronze) not be the one who actually stopped the worst menace? I guess he was just not in the right place at the right time.

Mr.50

Kal-L represented (if not literally was) the original Superman...the one that debuted the entire franchise in ACTION COMICS # 1 back in 1938. It was poetic justice that the most terrible menace ever to threaten the DC Universe (and indeed, would bring an end to the continuity that had been building since 1938) would finally be brought down by the first DC superhero.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Buried Alien]

Oh sure Buried. You are absolutly correct when we tak into account the real world's effect on comic story lines but I was just thinking why would the most powerful guy (Silver/Bronze) not be the one who actually stopped the worst menace? I guess he was just not in the right place at the right time.

Mr.50

And the fact that Kal-L reasoned that Kal-El (the Earth-One version) still had lots to live for (Supergirl was dead, but most of Kal-El's closest friends and associates from Earth-One survived the Crisis), while Kal-L didn't (Earth-Two was gone, and at the time that Kal-L took on the Anti-Monitor, he thought that his Lois was dead too). Kal-El *wanted* to be the one to take down the Anti-Monitor (revenge for Supergirl and the others), but Kal-L denied him that opportunity at martyrdom.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[caboose]

From reading this thread, I can see that there are actually two very good reasons as to not bring back the Pre Crisis Earth-1 Superman:

A: He got his swansong in Moore's 'Whatever Happened...'

and

B: He was folded into the singular Earth Superman of Byrne's Man of Steel.

Yet Buried Alien besides pointing out how iconic he is, you the thread starter have failed to provide any real reason to bring him back other than your apparent need for a fanboy orgasm.

[Buried Alien]

From reading this thread, I can see that there are actually two very good reasons as to not bring back the Pre Crisis Earth-1 Superman:

A: He got his swansong in Moore's 'Whatever Happened...'

1. Alan Moore himself labeled this an "Imaginary Story," which in Silver Age code meant "not part of continuity."

2. Mark Waid, in the CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS COMPENDIUM (issued with ABSOLUTE CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS), explicitly placed WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THE MAN OF TOMORROW on its own Earth-86, not Pre-COIE Silver/Bronze Age Earth-One.

3. Additionally, the world depicted in WHTTMOT had a number of inconsistencies with Earth-One as of 1986. Other than a reference to Supergirl being dead (no specification that it happened during a Crisis involving the Anti-Monitor), WHTTMOT seemed to occur on an Earth that was still in the *Silver* Age, and the Bronze Age had not occurred (although Clark's working for WGBS does suggest the Bronze Age might have been underway; it might be the Curt Swan art giving the pure Silver Age impression). A Flash and a Robin appeared in this story, but they seemed (although were not explicitly named) to be Barry Allen and Dick Grayson rather than Wally West and Jason Todd. On the other hand, Captain Marvel was there...did he come over from Earth-S to help out, or was this Post-COIE integrated New Earth (which wouldn't make much sense either, but continuity was fluid in those days)?

All of which means that WHTTMOT, while a great story on its own terms, has several flaws that prevent it from being accepted as the definitive final word on the Silver/Bronze Age Superman.


B: He was folded into the singular Earth Superman of Byrne's Man of Steel.


I once thought so too, but was he, really? Characters who have encountered both versions (i.e. Kal-L and Superboy/man Prime) seem to regard them as separate entities.

Yet Buried Alien besides pointing out how iconic he is, you the thread starter have failed to provide any real reason to bring him back other than your apparent need for a fanboy orgasm.

Well, that was rude.

Moreover, if Kal-L and Superboy/man Prime were rescued from continuity limbo for INFINITE CRISIS and SINESTRO CORPS WAR, why should the version of Superman that was the mainstream representation of the character in the comics between approximately 1956 and 1986 continue to languish in limbo?

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Buried, while I understand that you reaaally want to see this obscure subpot explored in the comics, it's just not gonna happen. Unless a writer comes up with a compelling story bringing him back, of course.

The Earth-1 Superman was transformed into the Post-Crisis Superman, who was subsequently transformed into the Birthright Superman who was then transformed into the New Earth Superman and then got delayed for 6 months.

They bring out the Bronze Age/Earth-1 version quite regularly during the obligatory "Superman as he was protrayed in various eras" Anniversary books. The last one was done by Busiek, I believe. The Julie Shwartz era will always be remembered and acknowledged by whatever the current version is.

[ShaggyB]

I once thought so too, but was he, really? Characters who have encountered both versions (i.e. Kal-L and Superboy/man Prime) seem to regard them as separate entities.
.....

Moreover, if Kal-L and Superboy/man Prime were rescued from continuity limbo for INFINITE CRISIS and SINESTRO CORPS WAR, why should the version of Superman that was the mainstream representation of the character in the comics between approximately 1956 and 1986 continue to languish in limbo?

Buried here is your answer once again



The Earth-1 Superman was transformed into the Post-Crisis Superman, who was subsequently transformed into the Birthright Superman who was then transformed into the New Earth Superman


Superman silver/bronze was one of those who didnt exist outside of time. he was then re-written by the outcome of the multiverse becoming 1 universe.

I hate to say it but Silver/Bronze age supes Ceased to be after COIE. He became Post-COIE Supes... whom then has seen many changes.

Also ofcourse Superboy Prime would say hes not the real superman. He met Silver/Bronze Age Superman. He loved that man. Superman and the heroes of Post-COIE never lived up to Pre-Crisis standards that SB Prime had. He'll never call him Superman because he cant compare to Silver/Bronze age that he was before crisis. Remember he felt he gave up his universe to watch the once grade heroes become less than stellar.

[caboose]

1. Alan Moore himself labeled this an "Imaginary Story," which in Silver Age code meant "not part of continuity."

2. Mark Waid, in the CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS COMPENDIUM (issued with ABSOLUTE CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS), explicitly placed WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THE MAN OF TOMORROW on its own Earth-86, not Pre-COIE Silver/Bronze Age Earth-One.

3. Additionally, the world depicted in WHTTMOT had a number of inconsistencies with Earth-One as of 1986. Other than a reference to Supergirl being dead (no specification that it happened during a Crisis involving the Anti-Monitor), WHTTMOT seemed to occur on an Earth that was still in the *Silver* Age, and the Bronze Age had not occurred (although Clark's working for WGBS does suggest the Bronze Age might have been underway; it might be the Curt Swan art giving the pure Silver Age impression). A Flash and a Robin appeared in this story, but they seemed (although were not explicitly named) to be Barry Allen and Dick Grayson rather than Wally West and Jason Todd. On the other hand, Captain Marvel was there...did he come over from Earth-S to help out, or was this Post-COIE integrated New Earth (which wouldn't make much sense either, but continuity was fluid in those days)?

All of which means that WHTTMOT, while a great story on its own terms, has several flaws that prevent it from being accepted as the definitive final word on the Silver/Bronze Age Superman.

I once thought so too, but was he, really? Characters who have encountered both versions (i.e. Kal-L and Superboy/man Prime) seem to regard them as separate entities.

Well, that was rude.

Moreover, if Kal-L and Superboy/man Prime were rescued from continuity limbo for INFINITE CRISIS and SINESTRO CORPS WAR, why should the version of Superman that was the mainstream representation of the character in the comics between approximately 1956 and 1986 continue to languish in limbo?

First of all I apologise for the fanboy orgasm comment, but sometimes your persistent over eagerness is a bit grating.

I'm not sure what edition of 'Whatever Happned...' you own, but theres an introduction by Paul Kupperberg and in it he specifically says that it was to be the last story for that Superman character for that generation. It is the end story of Earth-1 Kal-El.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow may not be considered 'canon' by whomever is determining whatever that is right now, it will always be considered the perfect final story for that character by the creative community. Nobody in the industry is gonna revist the Pre-Crisis Superman for fear of screwing up what Alan Moore did.

Maybe in 25 years when Moore isn't such a giant in the industy---although even then he'll be on par with Jack Kirby as one of the Great Icons of Comics.

[superfriend]

Alas, Jeph Loeb introduced a Superman who's first appearance in Superman/Batman #2 (November 2003), had the look of E-2 Superman in KC Superman's costume.

The link was shown that this Superman that Jeph had brought in was actually an aged WHTTMOT Superman--in Superman/Batman #18 (April 2005), his mission being over, he was folded into WHTTMOT. Upon this realization, he affirms that he had succeeded in his mission and is, in fact, the WHTTMOT Superman.

But that was all pre-IC.

That's probably the nerdiest thing I've ever typeed.

[Foxy]

My question is, if Kal-L is from earth 2, why isn't he part of JSA? I'm so confused by all of this.

Also, Mr. 50, great name, I know a guy who posts on this band's board who goes by the title Mr. 50 too.

[tony ingram]

My question is, if Kal-L is from earth 2, why isn't he part of JSA? I'm so confused by all of this.


Because he's dead? He was part of the JSA pre COIE, then ended up stuck in another dimension, forgotten by everyone, until IC. Then he died, though in the process, some of the JSA seem to have regained their memories of him. On the new Earth 2, he and Power Girl are listed as "missing" by that word's JSA.

[Buried Alien]

Alas, Jeph Loeb introduced a Superman who's first appearance in Superman/Batman #2 (November 2003), had the look of E-2 Superman in KC Superman's costume.

Minus the costume, there's practically nothing to distinguish the Earth-Two Superman from the KINGDOM COME Superman visually. Both appear to be between 70-80 year old men with greying hair and skin wrinkles.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[rick]

I think that at some point we will see the silver age Superman again.

I don’t know when, but it is pretty clear that even though he was originally supposed to be the same charter as the post-Crisis version, there are more then enough differences at this point to consider him a completely different character.