Chuck Austen decides to fill in unanswered questions about his run

[Polaris Rocks]

Since I hear a lot of these questions over and over again, I thougt I’d just answer a few and be done with them. These things never get covered in interviews, so it seemed a good place to get this stuff out there because for some reason people want to know.

So here we go.

Justin asks: I really liked your work on Uncanny X-Men, especially with what you did with Polaris. You turned her from a character that was always in the background who I hardly ever noticed into one of my favorite characters and you managed to give her character a nice edge.

One thing I was wondering is how the decision to make Polaris Magneto’s daughter again came down? Was that Morrison or your idea? Because, I know the storyline had its roots in Morrison’s New X-Men 132 back in September 2002.

I believe it was Grant’s. But the roots went much further back, though others can tell you specifically when and where, what issues, what the circumstances were, which page, what panels, what characters, the costumes they were wearing, who lettered it, and possibly even the type of printer it was printed on.

There was a storyline done years ago where she was ‘revealed’ to be Magneto’s daughter, but then it was undone, or proven not to be true, or only happened in one of Scarlet Witch’s continuity-scrubbing bubbles, or something. Maybe in the Neal Adams Roy Thomas run. I researched it at the time, but I’ve since forgotten. I needed to memorize someone’s phone number, and that’s the only brain space I had available.

Apparently Grant made a decision to go back to it, but I’m not sure whose actual idea it was: his, Marvel’s, or God’s acting through them both as a conduit—I assume his, because he was Grant Morrison, and he had the power, the power of Hoodoo—all I can tell you is that the germ of the idea wasn’t mine.

I had intended to use Polaris in my run from the beginning, keep her much as she’d been when I’d read about her in X-Factor and other places, then eventually marry her off to Alex, happily ever after—at least until some other writer came along and made them related to Satan. It was a surprise to me when she appeared in Grant’s X-Men—crazy, muttering to herself, and wandering in the radioactive mud. We’d just had coffee the previous day, and she seemed fine. Just shows how you can miss the little signs.

Once she’d appeared as Nutso Profundo I had to rewrite some of my scripts, and went with Lorna the edgier, more volatile and unpredictable Looney Tunes with a heart of gold. It made a certain amount of sense, and I agree with you, she became more interesting than she had been. CURSE YOU GRANT MORRISON AND YOUR GENIUS! He was always making me look bad for my lack of imagination. I think he did it on purpose.

If Lorna had been on Genosha when it was destroyed, that kind of devastation likley would have changed her, deeply, although I’m sure she still could have had kids, a marriage, and sold Tupperware in her spare time if only I had let her. I decided not to, because I’m a dick, that way.

So it wasn’t planned, it wasn’t actually my idea, but I ran with it and thought it was a good direction and an interesting one. And, tellingly, people both credit, and blame me for the change.

If you liked it, I did it. If not, it’s Grant’s fault.

See how easy that is?


Chuck talks about lots of stuff including Stacy X, the rest you can read at the link

So when I took over X-Men, I believed I had to use the team Joe Casey had used, which included the lovely and talented Stacy X.

I had no idea that I was free to bring in and get rid of people, to change their personalities, costumes, personal hair-care products, or anything of the sort—at least not initially.

So I kept Stacy, made her fall for Warren, then try to get some rebound jiggy with Kurt, left Lorna crazy, made Kurt quippy and fun (I was told initially that Joe intended to get Kurt out of the priesthood before I would take over, and had to adjust back to dark and somber when that didn’t happen for whatever reason), kept Archangel, added Paige Guthrie because the editor’s liked her personally and wanted her on the team, brought back soap and relationships because Marvel felt it was core to the series (and I agreed), added Sammy because Marvel wanted an anchor-point for new readers, and so on, and so on.

Eventually, with Stacy X, I was told to get rid of her. Now. Right away. Painfully, if at all possible, and never mention her again.

And unfortunately by then I had come to love Stacy. She turned out to be a great character. She created nothing but conflict, which is raw meat for any writer looking to give life to interesting and compelling stories. I thought Stacy was a brilliant character—one of Joe’s best ideas, actually—and would have loved to continue using her. She stirred things up. But people hated her, particularly the folks at Marvel. The ones who write those X-Checks I mentioned. They’re kinda like Disney bucks, only with claws on ‘em.

So on that panel in Chicago, or the seventh level of hell, what I wanted to say was, “No, Marvel made me get rid of her, she’ll never be coming back, and I miss her because she was a great character.”

But I wasn’t sure I could say that, then.

Now I no longer care.

Yes, I loved Stacy X. It sounds like I’m admitting alcoholism, I suppose, but it’s true. I did.


alot more at his site http://www.chuckaustenonline.com/

[rilokyle]

Wow, that's some interesting stuff. He seems a little..... kooky. Still, its nice to get his perspective on characters like Lorna and Stacy, who we all blame for messing with when it really wasn't him in the first place.

[Polaris Rocks]

Wow, that's some interesting stuff. He seems a little..... kooky. Still, its nice to get his perspective on characters like Lorna and Stacy, who we all blame for messing with when it really wasn't him in the first place.

Yes, I thought this quote was interesting.

Toward the end of my run, that turned out to be the case. But initially it never even occurred to me that a million-dollar franchise like the X-Men could be completely controlled by a newbie writer who had just wandered in off the street looking for a bathroom. I thought continuity was lord and master, that Marvel made all those decisions, not the people who worked-for-hired their concepts, and I was under the misunderstanding that one must keep things consistent. Continuous. Within continuity.

And the fans hated me because I supposedly eschewed continuity. HA! I only eschewed continuity they liked.

[Arilou]

You know, say what you want about him but at least he doesen't seem to take himself too seriously...

[Karl H]

He is worryingly obsessed with T&A though, poor lad.

[worstblogever]

I take this with a grain of salt. Do I believe that Marvel editorial and execs made him ditch Stacy X? Hell yes. Do I believe that Grant Morrison's quirky take on the franchise, and willingness to take chances as a writer made it hard, continuity-wise, for Austen to keep up? Yes.

It's still a guy making excuses and trying to not take all the blame by passing some of it around, and saying a lot of his decisions were on the order, or to follow the lead of someone else.

So, I'm not gonna bash on Chuck A. He was thrown into a tough, high-profile writing gig and had to be the third guy on X-books with Claremont and Morrison with Joe Q as editor. Really, when that's the other members of the X-team... you're going to end up with chances to drop the ball.

[Brian Cronin]

Yeah, Austen might have had some problems as a comic writer, but he has always been a great interview. He is quite candid AND interesting.

-Brian

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I take this with a grain of salt. Do I believe that Marvel editorial and execs made him ditch Stacy X? Hell yes. Do I believe that Grant Morrison's quirky take on the franchise, and willingness to take chances as a writer made it hard, continuity-wise, for Austen to keep up? Yes.

It's still a guy making excuses and trying to not take all the blame by passing some of it around, and saying a lot of his decisions were on the order, or to follow the lead of someone else.

I'd agree with that. But the phrase is "A pinch of Salt" :D

And yeah, say what you will about the guy, but Brian's right, he always gives a good interview.

[Sheldon]

Sammy was meant to die!!!!!

"To reach that shift in attitude I created Sammy who was intended to bond with Juggernaut and, right from the beginning of my run, die in a way that changed Juggernaut forever, though in a different way than actually happened."

[Cain Marko]

...hopefully everything I ever did has been undone and my very existence has been expunged from the Marvel and DC Akashic records.



Just goes to show, no matter how far apart two people are there's always common ground somewhere.

[jmc247]

I believe it was Grant’s. But the roots went much further back, though others can tell you specifically when and where, what issues, what the circumstances were, which page, what panels, what characters, the costumes they were wearing, who lettered it, and possibly even the type of printer it was printed on.


He is right the roots of it went back into the 90s.


Apparently Grant made a decision to go back to it, but I’m not sure whose actual idea it was: his, Marvel’s, or God’s acting through them both as a conduit—I assume his, because he was Grant Morrison, and he had the power, the power of Hoodoo—all I can tell you is that the germ of the idea wasn’t mine.

I had intended to use Polaris in my run from the beginning, keep her much as she’d been when I’d read about her in X-Factor and other places, then eventually marry her off to Alex, happily ever after—at least until some other writer came along and made them related to Satan. It was a surprise to me when she appeared in Grant’s X-Men—crazy, muttering to herself, and wandering in the radioactive mud. We’d just had coffee the previous day, and she seemed fine. Just shows how you can miss the little signs.

Once she’d appeared as Nutso Profundo I had to rewrite some of my scripts, and went with Lorna the edgier, more volatile and unpredictable Looney Tunes with a heart of gold. It made a certain amount of sense, and I agree with you, she became more interesting than she had been. CURSE YOU GRANT MORRISON AND YOUR GENIUS! He was always making me look bad for my lack of imagination. I think he did it on purpose.


Very interesting, I always wondered if Austen's Polaris was directly influenced by Morrison having her go crazy in New X-Men 132. The other question that couldn't be answered till now was if he was the one who told Morrison to write her that way in New X-Men or if it was Morrison's idea all along.

[ImpulseUCF]

I just don't see anyone having the gall to tell Morrison what to write at that time.

[Keith_Martineau]

Eeeeh.

Okay, I believe him about Juggernaut, Stacy X and Polaris.

But he's still the guy who made Kurt the son of a demon, he's still the guy who wrote some of the WORST arcs Uncanny has ever seen.

I've always maintained that I liked a lot of what he did when he was starting out. I liked Sammy, I liked Annie well enough, liked that he brought on Northstar, I even liked the whole mutant interspecies thing.

But little by little his execution of ideas got bad, and then his ideas got bad---and then it all got worse.

[ImpulseUCF]

But little by little his execution of ideas got bad, and then his ideas got bad---and then it all got worse.That sums it up really well, actually. I didn't like his first arc, but enjoyed some of his stuff at the time... I particularly liked what he did with Juggernaut and, at the time, I kind of liked Annie in that they employed a bigot who worked for them out of a sense of obligation despite her fear. His run had decent parts, but by the end it was a disaster.

Better than Milligan, though... not that that is saying much.

[The Lucky One]

Yeah, Austen might have had some problems as a comic writer, but he has always been a great interview. He is quite candid AND interesting.

Glad someone else said it. My immediate thought after reading the interview was, "Geez, this guy is actually pretty funny... makes me wish I liked his run more."

At least his Exiles was good.

-D

[The Lucky One]

I just don't see anyone having the gall to tell Morrison what to write at that time.

I think someone might have the gall to do it, but then he would hiss at them and tell them their negatory harrying was interfering with his hyper-accelerated meandering along the higher planes of super-reality in the cognitive function. And then they would back slowly out of the room. ;)

-D

[Omega Alpha]

I don't understand how he sounds so reasonable in the interviews he gives, but his writing sounds like the one of a mad man.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

Having Lorna be Magneto's daughter was the best thing to happen to that character since the X-Factor run. After all, the Havok reunions have all been busts.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I loved Austen's run. It was a complete balls to the f-cking wall thing. Ok lets toss this at you. Complain yeah...we know. But now I'm gonna make Polaris f'n crazy and your gonna watch as she goes off around the rails.

He is right though. He didn't have the established name of a guy who could come on the X-Men franchise and just start all this. That they believed enough in him to allow it. Yost & Kyle remind me a lot of what Austen did on some levels. There is death , drama and all the above.

I wish Chuck could return. The fact that its been 3+ years and we still discuss his changes he made. The stories he did. That should tell us something. Thats making an impact as a writer. Unlike Peter Milligan's who is never mentioned or Claremont's last run ....it barely registers here beyond the whole Jamie Braddock thing.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Having Lorna be Magneto's daughter was the best thing to happen to that character since the X-Factor run. After all, the Havok reunions have all been busts.

Milligan tried it and man it was god awful. He took what made Polaris awesome under Austen and in the span of 20 issues ripped it away. Horrid decision making there. I'm glad they left them both in space since they took away my caring for them.

[Nyssane]

Aw, that's disappointing that the editors forced him to get rid of Stacy... to be honest I actually didn't mind Austen's Stacy. She wasn't as great as Casey's, but she was still interesting.

[jmc247]

I loved Austen's run. It was a complete balls to the f-cking wall thing. Ok lets toss this at you. Complain yeah...we know. But now I'm gonna make Polaris f'n crazy and your gonna watch as she goes off around the rails.

He is right though. He didn't have the established name of a guy who could come on the X-Men franchise and just start all this. That they believed enough in him to allow it. Yost & Kyle remind me a lot of what Austen did on some levels. There is death , drama and all the above.

I wish Chuck could return. The fact that its been 3+ years and we still discuss his changes he made. The stories he did. That should tell us something. Thats making an impact as a writer. Unlike Peter Milligan's who is never mentioned or Claremont's last run ....it barely registers here beyond the whole Jamie Braddock thing.

He certainly did shake things up. There was never more online interest about Lorna then during his run. He certainly made some bad plots, but he was unafraid to take risks with characters.

[Polaris Rocks]

Aw, that's disappointing that the editors forced him to get rid of Stacy... to be honest I actually didn't mind Austen's Stacy. She wasn't as great as Casey's, but she was still interesting.

I liked Stacy as well and was sad to see her go.

[Mitsaso]

Aw, that's disappointing that the editors forced him to get rid of Stacy... to be honest I actually didn't mind Austen's Stacy. She wasn't as great as Casey's, but she was still interesting.

You can't go really wrong with a mutant prostitute;)

[Faded]

I thought his Polaris was fine, as was his first arc and a pair of issues after that...but everything else was horrendous. I mean, all the editorial strong-arming in the world can't really justify the lame plots and annoying characters.

But he's, like, gone. So I don't know why I'm complaining.

[Agent_Torpor]

He is worryingly obsessed with T&A though, poor lad.

Who amongst us here isn't? I fault him NONE for that.

[creaky]

Who amongst us here isn't? I fault him NONE for that.

I'm not. :mad:

[SUPERECWFAN1]

But he's, like, gone. So I don't know why I'm complaining.

Its because we really don't have something interesting to really write home about character wise. We all should admit , even if you hated Chuck's ideas of Nurse Annie , Carter , Nightcrawler's father ect ect. It gave us all something to dicuss , debate and all.

I wish Marvel would rehire him. If anyone has to follow Yost & Kyle on New X-Men..... give it to Chuck Austen.

[Faded]

Its because we really don't have something interesting to really write home about character wise. We all should admit , even if you hated Chuck's ideas of Nurse Annie , Carter , Nightcrawler's father ect ect. It gave us all something to dicuss , debate and all.

I wish Marvel would rehire him. If anyone has to follow Yost & Kyle on New X-Men..... give it to Chuck Austen.

I don't want bad plots to be the reason for high thread activity though.

I mean, I don't think he was entirely bad. If you asked me to make a top 10 list of Austen Things I Liked, I could come up with a solid 7. I just wish there was more editorial influence to filter out some of the REAAALY BAAD.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I don't want bad plots to be the reason for high thread activity though.

I mean, I don't think he was entirely bad. If you asked me to make a top 10 list of Austen Things I Liked, I could come up with a solid 7. I just wish there was more editorial influence to filter out some of the REAAALY BAAD.

I think by the end as Chuck detailed on an earlier blog entry.... that a lot of his run was in fact dictated by Editoral. He ran down a good entry where he was handed bullet points to make in each issue , characters to feature and all. By the end of his run he claims there was so much dictation that he really couldn't stay.

[Mitteloss]

I'm neutral towards Austen's Polaris. He both developed and damaged her. He explained why he wrote her that way and ran with the mentally un-stable persona, I don't blame him. The Genoshan massacre was going to deeply affect her, it was the only realistic option. Fans would complain if she wasn't deeply affected.

However, it took a while to get rid of 'Crazy Polaris' and go back to normal, the image stuck and people didn't like it. I didn't. It's gone now, but some ignorant people still think she's insane.

Overall, an interesting development, shouldn't have been carried out too long.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

Milligan tried it and man it was god awful. He took what made Polaris awesome under Austen and in the span of 20 issues ripped it away. Horrid decision making there. I'm glad they left them both in space since they took away my caring for them.

I didn't really read the Milligan stuff except for the Apocalypse story. So that really means nothing to my enjoyment of Lorna and her true place in the X-verse, on earth and in the political future of mutants.

[Hi-Fi]

Shame about Stacy. I loved her.

[Phil Hunn]

I liked Milligan's X-Men better than Austen's.

There, I said it.

At least Milligan was trying to amuse me, rather than doing it out of sheer bad storytelling. Austen's first arc wasn't bad on first reading - but looking back, the cracks were there all along, and it was only a matter of time before they tore wide open. I cannot honestly remember ever reading something as dreadfully misconceived as Azazel The Dad From Hell.

Mind you, my Comic Book Guy still maintains that the guy has been hard done by as far as the intarwebz go. Apparently Austen visited his shop when he'd just started writing the X-Men (and dropped a mention of it into the issue of his Avengers run where the new Captain Britain was introduced), and proved to be a very nice chap...

[Ogrebear]

I came up with the idea because I couldn’t have Colossus. Bringing Juggernaut onto the team was based on what I thought was continuity as represented by the J2 books. That series made clear that Juggernaut—at some point—made a tremendous shift in attitude and joined the X-Men before marrying and having a family of his own.

So he brought on Cain dispite all the nasty stuff (demolishing WTC, throwing full buses at Thor etc) in his previous history based on what was in a non-continuity book? Did noone at Marvel tell him MC2 and J2 was not canon?

In some ways Juggy reforming, or attempting to reform works- I like the idea of the big lug as a Hero but Austin did it by ignoring so much of what had gone before and doing a 180 in Cains personality (I suppose it could be explained by having Jean and Charles mess with his head). If he'd brought Cain in better perhaps Cain as a good guy might have got off to a better start than 'I'll come and hang with you cos my only freind is a loony plant and I like this Sammy kid'

Its not like the X-Men have not welcomed other ex-enermies to their door- but Cain's conversion (as much as I wanted it to) never really worked well imho. More could have been done with it.... much more.

Still I guess we *did* get to see Cain wail on Sasquatch and he *did* get to bang She-Hulk and there has been some interesting plot lines comes from it - just how much better it could have been? Time for a what if......???

[SUPERECWFAN1]

So he brought on Cain dispite all the nasty stuff (demolishing WTC, throwing full buses at Thor etc) in his previous history based on what was in a non-continuity book? Did noone at Marvel tell him MC2 and J2 was not canon?

In some ways Juggy reforming, or attempting to reform works- I like the idea of the big lug as a Hero but Austin did it by ignoring so much of what had gone before and doing a 180 in Cains personality (I suppose it could be explained by having Jean and Charles mess with his head). If he'd brought Cain in better perhaps Cain as a good guy might have got off to a better start than 'I'll come and hang with you cos my only freind is a loony plant and I like this Sammy kid'

Its not like the X-Men have not welcomed other ex-enermies to their door- but Cain's conversion (as much as I wanted it to) never really worked well imho. More could have been done with it.... much more.

Still I guess we *did* get to see Cain wail on Sasquatch and he *did* get to bang She-Hulk and there has been some interesting plot lines comes from it - just how much better it could have been? Time for a what if......???

Cain's conversion worked better than Mystqiues when Milligan had her join. You need to look back at the early issues of Austen's run when Jugs joined and read about dealing with his personal demons like his stepfather. Factor in Sammy and you had something nice.

[ImpulseUCF]

Ugh. Austen's stuff was cheesy and bad, but he tried, and it showed. It had its own campy appeal and worked within its own context. Millgain's stuff was just plain bad, stupid, and pointless. The way Mystique joined was ASBUSRD. Completely unbelievable. Ugh. How did the guy who wrote Skreemer also write this crap??

[Cain Marko]

So he brought on Cain dispite all the nasty stuff (demolishing WTC, throwing full buses at Thor etc) in his previous history based on what was in a non-continuity book?

The mind does boggle, yes. That Austen knew virtually nothing of the character or his past was clear in his writing. And his conversion of Cain was sudden to the point of being absurd. Just months before Austen kidnapped his likeness, the Juggernaut had annihilated droves of people which was all over the evening news. Public mass slaughter one day, X-Men missions the next.



In some ways Juggy reforming, or attempting to reform works- I like the idea of the big lug as a Hero but Austin did it by ignoring so much of what had gone before and doing a 180 in Cains personality (I suppose it could be explained by having Jean and Charles mess with his head). If he'd brought Cain in better perhaps Cain as a good guy might have got off to a better start than 'I'll come and hang with you cos my only freind is a loony plant and I like this Sammy kid'


If Austen needed another Colossus that bad it should have been akin to Cain's stint on the Exiles. Where he retained his established persona but had to work with the team out of personal necessity. Cain should NEVER be depicted as an effeminately sensitive and altruistic figure. Words can't describe the wrong.

[jarrod]

Bits of Milligan's run were genius. Particularly Bling! and Pulse. :D

Even his worse creations (Onyxx) had their good moments (yummy toilet!). Nothing Milligan did though was as awful, insulting or damaging as the Draco... and Milligan was even trying to be awful, insulting and damaging. lolz!

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Bits of Milligan's run were genius. Particularly Bling! and Pulse. :D

Even his worse creations (Onyxx) had their good moments (yummy toilet!). Nothing Milligan did though was as awful, insulting or damaging as the Draco... and Milligan was even trying to be awful, insulting and damaging. lolz!

Is that the excuse Milligan is floating ? He tried to be bad ? Jeeze wow....how do I not believe this . Hell at one point Marvel wanted him to do a mini-series involving the X-Men. Its likely they realized it would have sucked.

Pulse was ok. The attempt at doing another Rogue/Gambit triangle was crap since it was just a repeat of the 1990's. Milligan showed he last read the books back in the 1990's and followed nothing from Morrison or anyone else.

[Phil Hunn]

Milligan showed he last read the books back in the 1990's and followed nothing from Morrison or anyone else.

Milligan gave us Evil Communist Monkeys and the return of Apocalypse. It's all good ;)

[GoingGreen]

Like Mitteloss, I'm indifferent about Austen's Polaris. I felt that because of the way she'd been portrayed in New X-Men 132, and the long and gruelling history that Polaris had endured, a little mental instability was a necessary TEMPORARY change in Polaris. She'd been through mind control on multiple accounts, been possessed, been betrayed by dozens of her allies (and directly betrayed by one, Havok during X-Factor, even though he later revealed it was a ruse... but he did almost kill her). She was played by Apoc in the 12 storyline, and again by Mags who needed her for a power boost. She'd gotten her magnetic powers stolen by someone who claimed to be her sister, her entire history with her parents and the plane crash, and finally learned that her father was one of the most notable mutant terrorists in history, and finally watched Genosha get destroyed. (Note, not all of these are in chronological order, of course). A little instability was necessary, imo. And people who claim that "she is batshit crazy," or "just as crazy as her father," clearly aren't taking the extent of Polaris' attitude change into consideration. It was Paige who said "she could've killed everyone at the wedding but didn't." Didn't. Meaning she wasn't THAT crazy. Although she had the desire to kill Nurse Annie because of the betrayal (which, let's face it, some men and women get like that over cheaters...), she was stopped before it ever happened. And then she stayed with the X-Men and did NOT go on an evil killing rampage. She did not kill half of New York City. Polaris has never been portrayed 'as crazy as Magneto,' or 'batshit crazy.' She is not a murderer.

Anyway, Austen's portrayal of Polaris both helped and harmed her character. Many people who didn't know or pay attention to Polaris were suddenly interested in the character, and many people who didn't care for her suddenly hated her guts. So, basically, I commend Austen, because Polaris is more popular now than ever, it seems.

[jarrod]

Is that the excuse Milligan is floating ? He tried to be bad ? Jeeze wow....how do I not believe this.
No excuses, or even frank admissions. Read between the lines of his interviews, and it's pretty clear how little Milligan thought of the fanbase and concept. Low brow soap was what he wanted to do, and largely did I'd say.

Still though his run had more good than bad, which can't be said of Austin. Or even Casey arguably.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Milligan gave us Evil Communist Monkeys and the return of Apocalypse. It's all good ;)

An Apcolypse who really.... what did he do ? Beyond turn Gambit evil . Thats about it. He floated his ship over the mansion and did squat...

[jarrod]

An Apcolypse who really.... what did he do ? Beyond turn Gambit evil . Thats about it. He floated his ship over the mansion and did squat...
Well, he questioned his own methods and purpose. Essentially, Milligan gave big-A more characterization in a throwaway farce than he'd had in the 20 years since his inception. :D

[SUPERECWFAN1]

No excuses, or even frank admissions. Read between the lines of his interviews, and it's pretty clear how little Milligan thought of the fanbase and concept. Low brow soap was what he wanted to do, and largely did I'd say.

Still though his run had more good than bad, which can't be said of Austin. Or even Casey arguably.

I think he just realized he sucked to be honest. Hell he could claim he didn't care after doing the series where his run was largely forgotten but once you put your name on that book it should matter. Because thats your reputation and these were perhaps the biggest books in the industry and claiming "I didn't care" seems to show that he's basically not gonna care if he does tank your franchise.

If I was an editor at Marvel I wouldn't let him touch a franchise is if this is what he claims. I can see again why Marvel yanked the mini-series now.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Well, he questioned his own methods and purpose. Essentially, Milligan gave big-A more characterization in a throwaway farce than he'd had in the 20 years since his inception. :D

The art was horrible I feel. Milligan's script plan had Apcolypse emerge after years away and discuss his evilness with a lacky. Who questioned his motives (even though he had turned good years earlier....other Milligan miss-use) and you get this for 5 issues.

I can see why Marvel yanked him off the books after this disastor. They should have left Claremont on both really. Considering the result would have been the same. (CC wrote a good X-Mas fillin before Milligan....)

[jarrod]

I think he just realized he sucked to be honest. Hell he could claim he didn't care after doing the series where his run was largely forgotten but once you put your name on that book it should matter. Because thats your reputation and these were perhaps the biggest books in the industry and claiming "I didn't care" seems to show that he's basically not gonna care if he does tank your franchise.
Sure, but these interviews were also before the run started and during it... there's no after the fact backpeddaling here, Milligan took and approach and carried it out. Maybe it wasn't the best approach, but it's not the "excuse" you seem to be trying to characterize it as... this isn't Austin. ;)


If I was an editor at Marvel I wouldn't let him touch a franchise is if this is what he claims. I can see again why Marvel yanked the mini-series now.
Milligan's best at doing his own thing, but when he does it... man, it's better than almost anything out there. Like X-Statix.

His Strange was fun in the Dead Girl mini though, I wouldn't mind seeing his take a stab at that franchise maybe.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Sure, but these interviews were also before the run started and during it... there's no after the fact backpeddaling here, Milligan took and approach and carried it out. Maybe it wasn't the best approach, but it's not the "excuse" you seem to be trying to characterize it as... this isn't Austin. ;)

Ed Brubaker claims he hasn't been a huge fan of the X-Men. But you can bet he's gonna try his damnest to put out good material with his name on it. I can see Milligan claiming he's not a huge fan of the books and hadn't read them. But if he actually claims "I didn't care what I wrote and will write on this." then he's an idiot. He pretty much tells you that he won't care about producing good work on these books.



Milligan's best at doing his own thing, but when he does it... man, it better than almost anything out there. Like X-Statix.

His Strange was fun in the Dead Girl mini though, I wouldn't mind seeing his take a stab at that franchise maybe.

His X-Statix was good. Now perhaps I can see the problem Milligan walked into. His run to me seems to be one of editoral pushing. That he wanted to do something else and House of M was pushed into his path . He perhaps didn't realize like Austen did that the editors really steer the franchise a lot more than the writers and he basically lost his will halfway thru. It happens.....it happened to Lobdell at the end.

[worstblogever]

There are the big points of Austen's run that everyone loves or hates:

Nurse Annie's introduction to the book, and her Florence Nightengale feelings toward a comatose Havok.

Carter G. bringing back Havok from a the void between Marvel 616 and Mutant X Universe when even Professor X couldn't.

Iceman hooking up with Nurse Annie in a pre-Havok's wedding fling.

Iceman being unable to heal his wounds, and potentially being stuck in ice form.

Havok leaving Polaris at the altar for Nurse Annie.

Polaris taking a darker turn, being willing to kill, and defending the philosophy of Magneto even after he killed Jean (Xorneto, actually)

Northstar joining the team.

Northstar getting a crush on Iceman, even though Bobby didn't even produce a blip on his "gaydar".

Stacy X getting jealous of Husk/Warren and deciding to try for an easy fling with Nightcrawler who backed out for being a priest.

Juggernaut fighting alongside the team vs. Black Tom Cassidy when Tom's powers were out of control.

Samuel Pare saving Juggernaut's life in that mission and Jugs dealing with his demons and joining up full time.

Maximus Lobo and his crew of mutant werewolves.

Fighting Alpha Flight and Child Protective Services and the lawn of the X-Mansion.

Fighting the Church of Humanity after not wiping them out originally. Kurt being brainwashed by Father Whitney to be a priest.

The death of Synch and Skin on the lawn of the mansion when crucified by said Church of Humanity.

The "She Lies With Angels" storyline being a new take on Romeo & Juliet.

The Husk/Warren hookup.

Warren's healing factor, and healing blood.

The Draco, and that Kurt Wagner's papa is a mutant demon named Azazel.

Introducing Icarus, a younger version of Warren, who's actually Warren's barely-legal girlfriend's little brother.

Wolverine kicking over Xorneto's coffin, then tearing apart the statue of Magneto in Genosha in front of his mourners and Xavier.

The crossover with the Exiles vs. Maximus Lobo and the spirit of Mutant X Havok.

On adjective-less X-Men:

The blinding of Gambit vs. the Chinese Immortals.

Fighting the Chinese Immortals for the right to free Xorn's brother (who actually DOES have a star for a brain)

The new Brotherhood lineup of Mammomax, Avalanche, Exodus, Black Tom, Sabertooth, and Nocturne.

Black Tom killing Samuel Pare.

The fight with the new Brotherhood simply ending when all their members (save Sabertooth) are sucked into Xorn's black hole head. (and somehow they just got out after House of M).

Nurse Annie taking Carter G. and ditching Havok. Carter G. also has a mysterious "invisible friend" that hasn't been explained yet.

Go ahead and sound off, everyone.

[jarrod]

Ed Brubaker claims he hasn't been a huge fan of the X-Men. But you can bet he's gonna try his damnest to put out good material with his name on it.
Honestly, I'd say Bru hasn't been trying too hard either given what he's capable of. His run's been worse than Milligan's to this point. :/


I can see Milligan claiming he's not a huge fan of the books and hadn't read them. But if he actually claims "I didn't care what I wrote and will write on this." then he's an idiot. He pretty much tells you that he won't care about producing good work on these books.
He's not claiming that either. He's claiming it's low brow soap... so that's what he wrote. Simple.


His X-Statix was good. Now perhaps I can see the problem Milligan walked into. His run to me seems to be one of editoral pushing. That he wanted to do something else and House of M was pushed into his path . He perhaps didn't realize like Austen did that the editors really steer the franchise a lot more than the writers and he basically lost his will halfway thru. It happens.....it happened to Lobdell at the end.
I could see that maybe (ie: mandates to use Black Panther/Storm, use Apocalypse, etc), but honestly I think Milligan was a bit safer than most as he had the "B" team and good bit of critical recognition under his belt (before his run, Bendis even called him the best writer in Marvel's stable iirc). He wasn't really the helpless newbie Austin or Lobdell were.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

There are the big points of Austen's run that everyone loves or hates:

Nurse Annie's introduction to the book, and her Florence Nightengale feelings toward a comatose Havok.

Carter G. bringing back Havok from a the void between Marvel 616 and Mutant X Universe when even Professor X couldn't.

Iceman hooking up with Nurse Annie in a pre-Havok's wedding fling.

Iceman being unable to heal his wounds, and potentially being stuck in ice form.

Havok leaving Polaris at the altar for Nurse Annie.

Polaris taking a darker turn, being willing to kill, and defending the philosophy of Magneto even after he killed Jean (Xorneto, actually)

Northstar joining the team.

Northstar getting a crush on Iceman, even though Bobby didn't even produce a blip on his "gaydar".

Stacy X getting jealous of Husk/Warren and deciding to try for an easy fling with Nightcrawler who backed out for being a priest.

Juggernaut fighting alongside the team vs. Black Tom Cassidy when Tom's powers were out of control.

Samuel Pare saving Juggernaut's life in that mission and Jugs dealing with his demons and joining up full time.

Maximus Lobo and his crew of mutant werewolves.

Fighting Alpha Flight and Child Protective Services and the lawn of the X-Mansion.

Fighting the Church of Humanity after not wiping them out originally. Kurt being brainwashed by Father Whitney to be a priest.

The death of Synch and Skin on the lawn of the mansion when crucified by said Church of Humanity.

The "She Lies With Angels" storyline being a new take on Romeo & Juliet.

The Husk/Warren hookup.

Warren's healing factor, and healing blood.

The Draco, and that Kurt Wagner's papa is a mutant demon named Azazel.

Introducing Icarus, a younger version of Warren, who's actually Warren's barely-legal girlfriend's little brother.

Wolverine kicking over Xorneto's coffin, then tearing apart the statue of Magneto in Genosha in front of his mourners and Xavier.

The crossover with the Exiles vs. Maximus Lobo and the spirit of Mutant X Havok.

On adjective-less X-Men:

The blinding of Gambit vs. the Chinese Immortals.

Fighting the Chinese Immortals for the right to free Xorn's brother (who actually DOES have a star for a brain)

The new Brotherhood lineup of Mammomax, Avalanche, Exodus, Black Tom, Sabertooth, and Nocturne.

Black Tom killing Samuel Pare.

The fight with the new Brotherhood simply ending when all their members (save Sabertooth) are sucked into Xorn's black hole head. (and somehow they just got out after House of M).

Nurse Annie taking Carter G. and ditching Havok. Carter G. also has a mysterious "invisible friend" that hasn't been explained yet.

Go ahead and sound off, everyone.

The Carter plot is something that really could be a good one for a future writer to do. He's seemingly the son of Magneto. He's not been listed as a de-powered mutant so he's out there somewhere. Sinister would want him knowing the powerbase he has.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Honestly, I'd say Bru hasn't been trying too hard either given what he's capable of. His run's been worse than Milligan's to this point. :/

I can say this for Bru. He actually does leave good plots and explores new ground. He realized Havok had been made a fool in Milligan's run. Now he leads the Starjammers against his brother in space. He took plots like the one with Rachel's family being killed and worked it forward.

His plots have allowed them to really do a Starjammers mini-series . I can't say Milligan had any plots he left open. Instead they were all basically just....there. He'd toss out a love triangle with Iceman/Havok/Lorna and nothing to add to it. Why did Lorna suddenly become so hot for Bobby Drake now ?


He's not claiming that either. He's claiming it's low brow soap... so that's what he wrote. Simple.

It was pretty much soap that really ...wasn't good. If your gonna do soap opera...in a comic like X-Men it really has to be over the top. I'd walk away from Milligan's run thinking....how is this interesting ? Where is the over the top crazyness that is a soap opera storyline ? If the 3 are in a love traingle why did Iceman and Havok never fight for Lorna to finish that sub-plot?

I could see that maybe (ie: mandates to use Black Panther/Storm, use Apocalypse, etc), but honestly I think Milligan was a bit safer than most as he had the "B" team and good bit of critical recognition under his belt (before his run, Bendis even called him the best writer in Marvel's stable iirc). He wasn't really the helpless newbie Austin or Lobdell were.

He approached things too safe. He didn't wanna make a character change and dragged all the 90's plots back. He tried a soap opera approach and it read as too safe.

[Arilou]

Why did Lorna suddenly become so hot for Bobby Drake now ?


Because EVERYONE is hot for Bobby Drake, they just refuse to admit it.

[jarrod]

I can say this for Bru. He actually does leave good plots and explores new ground. He realized Havok had been made a fool in Milligan's run. Now he leads the Starjammers against his brother in space. He took plots like the one with Rachel's family being killed and worked it forward.

His plots have allowed them to really do a Starjammers mini-series . I can't say Milligan had any plots he left open. Instead they were all basically just....there. He'd toss out a love triangle with Iceman/Havok/Lorna and nothing to add to it. Why did Lorna suddenly become so hot for Bobby Drake now ?
Er, that's quite open for debate. The Rachel thing especially, one of the chief complaints about Brubaker's Rachel was that he *didn't* properly address Rachel's EOG setup... he just gave her a creepy, unrealistic crap romance and the Phoenix again. And frankly, Alex deserved being made a fool of following Austin's vicarious infallible characature and if you want a poster child for "basically just...there" it'd be Brubaker's Nightcrawler. :(

Worse, Milligan did exactly what you're claiming he didn't in terms of setup (Celestial errand boy Apocalypse, Gambit and Sunfire the Marauders, sane and in control Lorna, etc). Honestly, I'm not seeing much difference between him and Brubaker in this regard.


It was pretty much soap that really ...wasn't good. If your gonna do soap opera...in a comic like X-Men it really has to be over the top. I'd walk away from Milligan's run thinking....how is this interesting ? Where is the over the top crazyness that is a soap opera storyline ? If the 3 are in a love traingle why did Iceman and Havok never fight for Lorna to finish that sub-plot?
Eh, I won't defend the quality but there is something to be said for subtlety. I did think Milligan's tone was bit limp though, and some of the directions a bit weird (Logan and Rogue?... uh, no).

Still, you could taste the sexual subtext between Alex and Emma. That's a "so wrong, it's right" pairing if I've ever seen one. And throwing in Ororo on top, man, even Claremont would blush. :D


He approached things too safe. He didn't wanna make a character change and dragged all the 90's plots back. He tried a soap opera approach and it read as too safe.
I think his approach was misjudged from the start honestly, people pinning down the X-Men as a soap are doomed to fail before they start.

Outside the conceptual misfiring though, I really wish Milligan would've just done things in his own style rather than trying to emulate the 90s. It got better towards the end, but still dissapointing.

[worstblogever]

Nurse Annie's introduction to the book, and her Florence Nightengale feelings toward a comatose Havok.
Really, really forced. I liked Cyclops' arrival to collect his brother, and her looking to follow up on her patient, but this needed to be handled a lot differently.

Carter G. bringing back Havok from a the void between Marvel 616 and Mutant X Universe when even Professor X couldn't. When a kid is a deus ex machina where Xavier fails? I'm totally against it. Besides, didn't they introduce Carter in a scene in his room with his mom as a telekinetic?

Iceman hooking up with Nurse Annie in a pre-Havok's wedding fling.
Probably the only Nurse Annie scene that made sense to me, given Iceman's state of mind and fear of being alone during Austen's run. Mind you, I hated that Iceman was getting emo, but that's another story.

Iceman being unable to heal his wounds, and potentially being stuck in ice form. At first I found this interesting, but Bobby getting whiny about it was real depressing.

Havok leaving Polaris at the altar for Nurse Annie. Well, the Polaris proposing to Alex thing was jumping the gun a bit. If Alex had just backed out, fine. But to be with the lady who was giving him spongebaths? Dude, totally did NOT need to be given as a reason that day.

Polaris taking a darker turn, being willing to kill, and defending the philosophy of Magneto even after he killed Jean (Xorneto, actually)
Given what Morrison did with the character, I was okay with it. Having her getting ditched for Nurse Annie, and handling it like a high school girl I wasn't down with.

Northstar joining the team.
Was a brilliant creative choice, and I felt Jean-Paul was used well and made more than just that speedy gay guy.

Northstar getting a crush on Iceman, even though Bobby didn't even produce a blip on his "gaydar". Fine in and of itself. But it was really a barely explored storyline. At least have Northstar find someone to talk to abd date. Anybody.

Stacy X getting jealous of Husk/Warren and deciding to try for an easy fling with Nightcrawler who backed out for being a priest. Again, came off like high school drama. I know Stacy and Paige were some of the youngest X-characters, but it was insipid. Stacy was a strong character right up until this. The Nightcrawler thing was kind of random, and if she seduced Kurt up and through the C.O.H. storyline, it would've made more sense to me, and been really naughty.

Juggernaut fighting alongside the team vs. Black Tom Cassidy when Tom's powers were out of control. Didn't just like, but loved this story.

Samuel Pare saving Juggernaut's life in that mission and Jugs dealing with his demons and joining up full time. I liked this development. Explaining WHY Juggernaut wanted to reform was some of the best character work Austen did, hands down. And he still was hardly the Huggernaut. (See him discussing what X-Woman he'd like to nail with Sammy, or bullying kids on the basketball court to show he still had an edge. That, and wanting to brawl with anything he could.)

Jugs nailing She-Hulk
Was a hilarious throw-away scene with a reformed villain and known promiscuous character. I felt bad for the bed, though.

Maximus Lobo and his crew of mutant werewolves. There are not words for how lame I thought they were. I didn't even get how they were a match for the team of mutants they battled. Archangel could just fly away from them. Husk can turn to steel. Wolverine's healing factor and adamantium would help him out. Why were these hairy-*ssed bastards a threat?

Fighting Alpha Flight and Child Protective Services and the lawn of the X-Mansion. A fun fight, but how the hell Alpha Flight was called in to collect Sammy by the Canadian government and effectively bring foreign military onto U.S. soil was a problem. Over ONE kid. This should have been built up more to make real sense.

Fighting the Church of Humanity after not wiping them out originally. Kurt being brainwashed by Father Whitney to be a priest. Lorna kills in this storyline. But the fact that Nightcrawler just "forgot" to finish these guys off is beyond me.

The death of Synch and Skin on the lawn of the mansion when crucified by said Church of Humanity. So... so... pissed off about this. Killing off a generic character would've been fine. Anyway, how do you get to the Xavier grounds and start crucifying people on the lawn before anyone inside the mansion even notices? And doesn't it take like days to die from that? A shock factor move, and one that didn't need to go THAT far to be pulled off. Besides, there were other characters that could've been killed. Wraith or Sunpyre from "Eve of Destruction" would've been great choices to buy the farm. And just one of them, not both.

The "She Lies With Angels" storyline being a new take on Romeo & Juliet. I figured out the parallel, and begrudgingly continued the story. This could easily be the low point of Austen's run for me.

The Husk/Warren hookup.It seemed sudden, and I thought Paige and Warren's mindsets during this time made sense. The age difference was covered on panel, and other than Stacy X being a nooch about it, it was okay.

Warren's healing factor, and healing blood.Didn't like the science of "mutants can't get HIV" because hey... What if Warren or one of the people he treats has hepatitis or some other blood-borne disease never came up. Oh yeah, the ABO/Rh thing was mentioned, but never clarified. They never said what blood type Warren is. And if you wanted that to not be an issue... just write that he's Type O Negative. (part of my job to know stuff like that)

The Draco, and that Kurt Wagner's papa is a mutant demon named Azazel.Okay, remember how I said, "She Lies with Angels" was the low point of Austen's run? Forget I said that. This buried Nightcrawler even more than the Church of Humanity story, and made no sense. The only hope for retconning it would be to say that Azazel is just a long-lived mutant, but lies about his power and CLAIMS he's a demon. Just... terrible.

Introducing Icarus, a younger version of Warren, who's actually Warren's barely-legal girlfriend's little brother. Again, didn't like his intro, or the way he was being pushed toward one of the Cuckoos as a love interest. The copycat nature of this character was like seeing another telepath, Wolverine-clone, or telekinetic. Just not imaginative, or needed.

Wolverine kicking over Xorneto's coffin, then tearing apart the statue of Magneto in Genosha in front of his mourners and Xavier. LOVED this issue. Wolverine just doesn't give a sh*t who he pisses off. Almost pays for it, and actually cuts Toad's tongue off, just to be an *ss. After Jean's death, Logan taking out his frustrations on Magneto's followers was awesome.

The crossover with the Exiles vs. Maximus Lobo and the spirit of Mutant X Havok. Hated it. The only thing I liked about it was it referenced what happened to Mutant X Havok's spirit. I was wondering that since that series.

On adjective-less X-Men:

The blinding of Gambit vs. the Chinese Immortals.Stupid plot device. I wonder what Austen had planned for this in the long term. But it didn't improve Gambit's character in the least. If anything it made he and Rogue even more intolerably whiny.

Fighting the Chinese Immortals for the right to free Xorn's brother (who actually DOES have a star for a brain)WHY did they want this Xorn again? Didn't they learn their lesson after the first one?

The new Brotherhood lineup of Mammomax, Avalanche, Exodus, Black Tom, Sabertooth, and Nocturne.Well, Mammomax was new, but at least smart enough to call out Exodus on having a sh*tty plan of attack for raiding the mansion. Nocturne on this team made NO sense to me, either. She arrives in the 616 after Exiles and... joins the new Brotherhood? Even as a mole, Exodus should've been able to use telepathy and know she was a traitor, if she was at all. Nice to see Avalanche, and at least we got Sabertooth vs. Wolvie round 1948.

Black Tom killing Samuel Pare.Definitely finalized the Black Tom/Jugs rift. But couldn't he have just maimed the kid?

The fight with the new Brotherhood simply ending when all their members (save Sabertooth) are sucked into Xorn's black hole head. (and somehow they just got out after House of M).As anti-climactic as it gets. And it didn't make sense. I was like... so... they're not dead, they're just stuck in him? For now? Till when?

Nurse Annie taking Carter G. and ditching Havok. Carter G. also has a mysterious "invisible friend" that hasn't been explained yet.
Talk about hanging plot threads that will never be explored. What is this kid supposed to be? Another bastard kid of Magneto's? Does he have Maddie Pryor from Mutant X watching him? Or is he just his own brand of balls-out crazy? We'll never find out. Never.

[jmc247]

The art was horrible I feel. Milligan's script plan had Apcolypse emerge after years away and discuss his evilness with a lacky. Who questioned his motives (even though he had turned good years earlier....other Milligan miss-use) and you get this for 5 issues.

I can see why Marvel yanked him off the books after this disastor. They should have left Claremont on both really. Considering the result would have been the same. (CC wrote a good X-Mas fillin before Milligan....)

I certainly did like X-Men 165, the characterization all around was well done.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Nurse Annie's introduction to the book, and her Florence Nightengale feelings toward a comatose Havok.

Classic soap opera here. The nurse character pining over the comatose person. This time it involved superheroes.

Carter G. bringing back Havok from a the void between Marvel 616 and Mutant X Universe when even Professor X couldn't.

Ok they could have used Jean here. But Chuck had already established that Carter was opening a portal to line Havok up with his mom. So it plays into it that perhaps Carter is a manifistation of the Mutant X Universe and he created Annie as his mother . That his real mom is in fact he Mutant X's Goblin Queen and Havok.

Iceman hooking up with Nurse Annie in a pre-Havok's wedding fling.

It was a kiss and he wanted her. It didn't last long since Annie only had eyes for Havok.

Iceman being unable to heal his wounds, and potentially being stuck in ice form.

This was awesome. He could change back and risk dying. Seeing Drake having to suffer as a permant Iceman was a good sub-plot. I wish Marvel had did something with it.

Havok leaving Polaris at the altar for Nurse Annie.

This was great. The entire arc played like something you'd see on a daytime soap.

Polaris taking a darker turn, being willing to kill, and defending the philosophy of Magneto even after he killed Jean (Xorneto, actually)

This was in essance like taking the Juggernaunt character and wiping years of bad use away. Now Polaris was someone who could kill , who didn't take shit off anyone and you had better be careful. No longer anyones puppet , Dane was impressive . She played the EDGE role to a tee.

Northstar joining the team.

We all remember the pain Jean Paul had in trying to save that poor child.

Northstar getting a crush on Iceman, even though Bobby didn't even produce a blip on his "gaydar".

This was a fun story-plot.

Stacy X getting jealous of Husk/Warren and deciding to try for an easy fling with Nightcrawler who backed out for being a priest.

The exit was pretty memborable. The whole jumping rope exit was something we all laugh about at times.

Juggernaut fighting alongside the team vs. Black Tom Cassidy when Tom's powers were out of control.

Samuel Pare saving Juggernaut's life in that mission and Jugs dealing with his demons and joining up full time.

This was Austen's best achievment. Jugs had been seen as a C-Level thug for so long. He really needed someone to give him his moments character wise and Austen did.

Maximus Lobo and his crew of mutant werewolves.

Not so good. They were newly created villains and I'd love to see them return.

Fighting Alpha Flight and Child Protective Services and the lawn of the X-Mansion.

This was a good storyplot. Alpha was there to take the kid back. I loved the fight

Fighting the Church of Humanity after not wiping them out originally. Kurt being brainwashed by Father Whitney to be a priest.

The death of Synch and Skin on the lawn of the mansion when crucified by said Church of Humanity.

He actually made the Church into a good storyplot. Casey had basically left it hanging and Chuck wrapped it. The fact that this scheme was to destroy Catholism and use Mutants as a satanistic presnese was pretty fun to see. Kurt as Pope being exposed as a Mutant was a pretty orginal bad guy plan.

The "She Lies With Angels" storyline being a new take on Romeo & Juliet.

UGH....my only faults with him.

The Husk/Warren hookup.


Warren was in his depression at losing Betsy. He was trying to make sense of it all. He realized the "game" was getting more dangerous now and he upped himself with his sword. The romance as he was scared of losing someone else was nice. But he pretty much vowed...no one close to him will die now.

Warren's healing factor, and healing blood.

This was a good 2nd mutation I thought. Warren needed some upgrades. He now carried a sword and had this ...you better not f-ck with me attitude. The old west outfit was pretty damn sweet as well.

The Draco, and that Kurt Wagner's papa is a mutant demon named Azazel.

Interesting subplot and this can be explored by more writers at some point. Thats if Nightcrawler manages to live past the next crossover.

Introducing Icarus, a younger version of Warren, who's actually Warren's barely-legal girlfriend's little brother.

Didn't like the story-arc. Jay was a good character and its a shame he had to die.

Wolverine kicking over Xorneto's coffin, then tearing apart the statue of Magneto in Genosha in front of his mourners and Xavier.

Well Wolverine had lost Jean . She had died and he really f-cking hates Magneto anyhow. So it made sense. The man he's tried to kill numerous times finally took someone close to him. I can see why he'd go crazy.

The crossover with the Exiles vs. Maximus Lobo and the spirit of Mutant X Havok.

Didn't like this even though it gave us Nocturne in our universe.

On adjective-less X-Men:

The blinding of Gambit vs. the Chinese Immortals.

It gave us n interesting sub-plot with Gambit.

Fighting the Chinese Immortals for the right to free Xorn's brother (who actually DOES have a star for a brain)

Damn editoral mandates.

The new Brotherhood lineup of Mammomax, Avalanche, Exodus, Black Tom, Sabertooth, and Nocturne.

Now this gets laughs but here is Exodus making his return after a few years away. Plus Mammomax was always an online favorite since he was dorky as sh-t.

Black Tom killing Samuel Pare.

Cain needed this. He needed a reason to be a hero on a permant basis. Not just because it feels cool now. He needed to watch Sammy die and lose it. Because in this he knew what it was like to lose someone close. FOR SAMMY !!:p

The fight with the new Brotherhood simply ending when all their members (save Sabertooth) are sucked into Xorn's black hole head. (and somehow they just got out after House of M).

It was a rushed conclusion to do Milligan's run. I wish they had decided to give Chuck Austen til #175 at least . He had interesting things laid down that could have paid off nicely.

Nurse Annie taking Carter G. and ditching Havok. Carter G. also has a mysterious "invisible friend" that hasn't been explained yet.

Carter's friend is Mady I believe. That its in fact his real mom and as I hinted , Annie is something Carter created.

[Alex A Sanchez]

My immediate thought after reading the interview was, "Geez, this guy is actually pretty funny... makes me wish I liked his run more."


I thought his run was hilarious- that's one of the reasons I liked it so much.

[jmc247]

I thought his run was hilarious- that's one of the reasons I liked it so much.

There was a certain humor to Austen's run.

[jmc247]

Polaris taking a darker turn, being willing to kill, and defending the philosophy of Magneto even after he killed Jean (Xorneto, actually)

This was in essance like taking the Juggernaunt character and wiping years of bad use away. Now Polaris was someone who could kill , who didn't take shit off anyone and you had better be careful. No longer anyones puppet , Dane was impressive . She played the EDGE role to a tee.


Then in Milligan's run she was back to being controlled, used as a puppet, and abused by every other villian of the week.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f132/jmc247/191824-polaris_400.jpg http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f132/jmc247/jus.jpg

[Polaris Rocks]

Then in Milligan's run she was back to being controlled, used as a puppet, and abused by every other villian of the week.


I always wonder why the hell do so many writers love having Lorna be abused and used as a puppet.

[jmc247]

I always wonder why the hell do so many writers love having Lorna be abused and used as a puppet.

Usually, because the writers don't know what else to do with her. Its easy to have her controlled by Malice, Apocalypse, or any villian of the week that a writer comes up with.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Meh, I'd say not having totally random immunity to psychic assault qualifies as a GOOD thing.

Ooooh, his/her thoughts are SLIPPERY. Idommitable WILL!!! ROXOR!! Huh huh :D

But, yeah, Lorna's had it bad. But, hey, she's been sort of scene and actually doing stuff for about a year.

[Phil Hunn]

There was a certain humor to Austen's run.

Up to a point, sure. Beyond that, it was just painful.

[rilokyle]

Then in Milligan's run she was back to being controlled, used as a puppet, and abused by every other villian of the week.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f132/jmc247/191824-polaris_400.jpg http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f132/jmc247/jus.jpg

Oh please, Milligan wrote a GREAT Lorna. And she was NOT abused every week. Because she lost her powers though (which I'm sure was more of a Marvel mandate, mind you) it made her susceptible to Apocalypse's torture.

But seriously, I was happy Austen brought back Lorna, but I did not like his over-the-top crazy Lorna he wrote. I can understand her being mentally disturbed, but it was sooooo overly done and ridiculous.

I liked Milligan's take on Lorna much much better. She was still unhinged, but you could sympathize with her. It was more of her trying to find her sanity, and I liked that. And let's not forget that awesomeness that was "What Lorna Found, Part 1" (minus the last page). That was probably my favorite issue of his run, and SUCH a great Lorna issue. She and Alex were written BEAUTIFULLY.

Sooo.... wait what are we talking about?

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Oh please, Milligan wrote a GREAT Lorna. And she was NOT abused every week. Because she lost her powers though (which I'm sure was more of a Marvel mandate, mind you) it made her susceptible to Apocalypse's torture.

But seriously, I was happy Austen brought back Lorna, but I did not like his over-the-top crazy Lorna he wrote. I can understand her being mentally disturbed, but it was sooooo overly done and ridiculous.

I liked Milligan's take on Lorna much much better. She was still unhinged, but you could sympathize with her. It was more of her trying to find her sanity, and I liked that. And let's not forget that awesomeness that was "What Lorna Found, Part 1" (minus the last page). That was probably my favorite issue of his run, and SUCH a great Lorna issue. She and Alex were written BEAUTIFULLY.

Sooo.... wait what are we talking about?


I won't even get into the horrid charactorization of how bad Havok was done by Milligan. The confident leader who had finally became his own man became a wimpy emo crying b-tch. He was supposed to lead the book but hell...everyone led the team except Havok. Emma , Rogue and finally Storm.

Thank GOD for Ed Brubaker. He at least decided to place Havok in charge of a group and made him leader again.

[Phil Hunn]

But seriously, I was happy Austen brought back Lorna, but I did not like his over-the-top crazy Lorna he wrote. I can understand her being mentally disturbed, but it was sooooo overly done and ridiculous.

Yes, it did beggar belief when Lorna pulled the pins on the grenades of those Church of Humanity guys just because she wanted peace & quiet to phone her mum and further her psycho wedding plans.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

Lorna putting the other children of Magneto, Wolverine, and Xavier in their place in Uncanny #443 is probably the most underrated moment of 2003. It should always be like that.

[jmc247]

Oh please, Milligan wrote a GREAT Lorna. And she was NOT abused every week. Because she lost her powers though (which I'm sure was more of a Marvel mandate, mind you) it made her susceptible to Apocalypse's torture.

Sooo.... wait what are we talking about?

Milligan's Lorna was written well, IMHO better then her run in RAFOTSE, especially in the beginning and end of Milligan's run. But, I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about her being controlled and used as a victim which Milligan went back to in the middle of his run.

Milligan in the middle of his run wrote Lorna being used and abused really for the first time in over a decade and I am not just talking about Apocalypse.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f132/jmc247/son.jpg

[mabusrex]

The Draco, and that Kurt Wagner's papa is a mutant demon named Azazel.Okay, remember how I said, "She Lies with Angels" was the low point of Austen's run? Forget I said that. This buried Nightcrawler even more than the Church of Humanity story, and made no sense. The only hope for retconning it would be to say that Azazel is just a long-lived mutant, but lies about his power and CLAIMS he's a demon. Just... terrible.

But that's exactly what he was. The way I understand the storyline (and most of this I got from Chuck himself through email correspondence) was that Azazel and his kin were the "demons" of myth in that stories were written about them as if they were demonic beings but they were in fact mutants. Once Azazel and crew got shunted off into that dimension, they would not age. Azazel could use just enough power to escape the dimension in hopes of siring on offspring that could access and teleport him out of said dimension for good (and that part really doesn't make much sense, honestly).

I enjoyed the fact that Abyss (a D-class hero that was a favorite of mine) was now made relevant due to his being a half-brother of Kurt. Unfortunately:

A) the artist and colorist did NO research of him and just made him a clone of Kurt (so much so, in fact, that on some early scans I received he had a nose. Luckily got to the artist early enough that they edited it out in the coloring stage)
B) Having tons of other half-siblings diluted that fact tremendously. Kiwi Jack? Really? Seriously? O...k...

I enjoyed Austen's run for the most part. Juggernaut being my favorite development of his. Made him my favorite character of mine. Still dislike that he turned Warren's skin white again just to return him to his roots. I liked the blue skin and blonde hair look. And the addition of Northstar was cool.

Oh, and that imaginary friend of Carter's was to be Cassandra Nova. Just FYI.

[Slyfer]

Wait is that fact?

Cassandra Nova is Carter's Imaginary Friend ???

[mabusrex]

Wait is that fact?

Cassandra Nova is Carter's Imaginary Friend ???

Not in continuity, but that's who it was meant to be.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Oh, and that imaginary friend of Carter's was to be Cassandra Nova. Just FYI.

Interesting. Another writer down the line can explore it with someone new I suppose. Its a plot they can always go back to.

[pariah-1972]

I really don't understand why people are so upset about Nightcrawlers dad being a demon, it could have been written a lot better but at least it makes some sort of sense, especially with the obvious way genetics seems to work with mutants.

[Diablito]

Wait a sec, was Sammy Pare considered an X-Men during Austen's run??

[pariah-1972]

Wait a sec, was Sammy Pare considered an X-Men during Austen's run??Not really since he didn't go to battles with them.
he was just a student at xaviers.

[jarrod]

I won't even get into the horrid charactorization of how bad Havok was done by Milligan. The confident leader who had finally became his own man became a wimpy emo crying b-tch. He was supposed to lead the book but hell...everyone led the team except Havok. Emma , Rogue and finally Storm.
Like I mentioned before, it was done mostly to counter Austin's infallible Marty Stu approach to the character. Indeed a lot of Milligan's character work on Alex/Lorna/Bobby was done to balance out Austin's infantile abuse of the trio.

Alex became "his own man" in the Outback under Claremont and later as the handpicked, inventive leader of X-Factor under PAD... he's only suffered since then largely imo. I wasn't thrilled with Milligan's clueless a-hole (except when Emma was emasculating him... hott!) but it was definite step up from Austin's vicarious pet.


IThank GOD for Ed Brubaker. He at least decided to place Havok in charge of a group and made him leader again.
But then, aren't you essentially congratulating Brubaker for doing to Kurt what you claim Milligan did to Alex? ;)

[pariah-1972]

Emma tends to emasculate just about everyone who disagrees with her including Scott.

[Phil Hunn]

I really don't understand why people are so upset about Nightcrawlers dad being a demon, it could have been written a lot better but at least it makes some sort of sense, especially with the obvious way genetics seems to work with mutants.

I'll tell you why I was so upset: Kurt's origin was self-contained and fairly robust the way it was, and he certainly didn't need to be saddled with the same "all dads are bad" thing that virtually every member of Austen's cast had to suffer through at one time or another. Nor did he need to have the "demonic appearance/devout Catholic" thing at the heart of his character messed with so clumsily: making his father into the literal inspiration for Satan was so brutally unsubtle it was like being hit in the face with a bag of hammers. "Looks like a demon" does not have to equal "really IS a demon".

Not to mention the fact that Azazel's statement about his mutant pals being the inspiration for all versions of angels & demons in mythology, in the context of the Marvel Universe at least, was beyond stupid: Belasco, Mephisto, Blackheart, and Satannish are all entities that could far more easily claim the mantle of the Biblical Devil, being as they are genuinely supernatural, rather than simply long-lived mutants with delusions of grandeur.

That, and I (a non-Catholic, for the record) found the treatment of Catholicism through this story and its predecessor Holy War highly offensive...

[pariah-1972]

I'll tell you why I was so upset: Kurt's origin was self-contained and fairly robust the way it was, and he certainly didn't need to be saddled with the same "all dads are bad" thing that virtually every member of Austen's cast had to suffer through at one time or another. Nor did he need to have the "demonic appearance/devout Catholic" thing at the heart of his character messed with so clumsily: making his father into the literal inspiration for Satan was so brutally unsubtle it was like being hit in the face with a bag of hammers. "Looks like a demon" does not have to equal "really IS a demon".

Not to mention the fact that Azazel's statement about his mutant pals being the inspiration for all versions of angels & demons in mythology, in the context of the Marvel Universe at least, was beyond stupid: Belasco, Mephisto, Blackheart, and Satannish are all entities that could far more easily claim the mantle of the Biblical Devil, being as they are genuinely supernatural, rather than simply long-lived mutants with delusions of grandeur.

That, and I (a non-Catholic, for the record) found the treatment of Catholicism through this story and its predecessor Holy War highly offensive...Hmmm i don't think Chuck Austin does subtle..
so is Azazel a mutant or a demon now or both?


anyways like i said the story in itself was stupid, but to me it makes sense that Kurts father is a demon or resembles one.
You are right that there are other beings in the marvel universe that seem more satanic or evil, i never got that impression from Azazel.
and thats also the great thing about the marvel universe is that as far as we know there is not one true Satan just a lot of people who think they are.
anyways you make some good points, so thanks for responding.

[jarrod]

Azazel's a mutant who thinks he's the devil... uh, right?


Actually, he's a clever manifestation of Belasco's meant to trick poor Kurt... we're just waiting for the Ellis reveal. ;)

[Arilou]

Someone suggested at some point (as a crackpot theory) that Nightmare is Kurt's true father.

I like the idea. So i think I'll add it to my personal canon.

[Alan2099]

Nothing Milligan did though was as awful, insulting or damaging as the Draco... and Milligan was even trying to be awful, insulting and damaging. lolz!
See, the guy can't even screw up without screwing it up! :p

[worstblogever]

Garney started the Priest Nightcrawler thing... Austen ended it for... son of the Devil Nightcrawler.

Great. Maybe Azazel will show up with a fiddle made of gold in his next appearance.

[Alan2099]

Garney started the Priest Nightcrawler thing... Austen ended it for... son of the Devil Nightcrawler.

Great. Maybe Azazel will show up with a fiddle made of gold in his next appearance.
... Yeah, I know it's a Nightcrawler storyline, but I just can't help picture Wolverine pulling out a fiddle to play off against him.

[worstblogever]

... Yeah, I know it's a Nightcrawler storyline, but I just can't help picture Wolverine pulling out a fiddle to play off against him.

Well Devil Went To Georgia does feature Johnny saying, "I told you once you son of a bitch, I'm the best there's ever been!"

Add a bub, and that's Logan's dialogue practically verbatim.

[Phil Hunn]

Garney started the Priest Nightcrawler thing... Austen ended it for... son of the Devil Nightcrawler.

You know the really sad thing? Austen destroying Kurt's faith and removing him from the priesthood was supposed to lead to a "more fun" Nightcrawler.

Sure, just like blowing up Mary Jane during the wretched Byrne/Mackie Spider-Reboot was supposed to be the ideal way to herald the return of "swinging single" Peter Parker... :rolleyes:

[creaky]

Someone suggested at some point (as a crackpot theory) that Nightmare is Kurt's true father.

I like the idea. So i think I'll add it to my personal canon.

Then Kurt really WOULD be part demon.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Like I mentioned before, it was done mostly to counter Austin's infallible Marty Stu approach to the character.

Making a character a strong leader isn't making them a Mary-sue character. And this was Havok and he had led X-Factor and the Mutant X team. Milligan saw that he was Cylops little brother and did a crummy job on him.

Indeed a lot of Milligan's character work on Alex/Lorna/Bobby was done to balance out Austin's infantile abuse of the trio.

Yeah he hit such a HR here. There was no end to the plot since it blew so bad. It was Polaris leaving to be someones latest victim as Havok like the obdiant emo child goin "I'm leavin with Lorna , I'm leavin with Lorna. She may look at me now."

It wasn't that good and thank god the writers forgot about it post Milligan.

Alex became "his own man" in the Outback under Claremont and later as the handpicked, inventive leader of X-Factor under PAD... he's only suffered since then largely imo. I wasn't thrilled with Milligan's clueless a-hole (except when Emma was emasculating him... hott!) but it was definite step up from Austin's vicarious pet.

Lets see.... can't lead a team without Emma , Rogue or Storm taking over . If anyone was Austen's Mary-Sue character it was Annie. He just used that plot with Havok. He saw Havok as a leader and wrote him as that. Milligan saw Havok as nothing. How its better makes me laugh.

Yes its true Austen gets heat on here . But lets be honest. The characters portrayal under Milligan was just bad.


But then, aren't you essentially congratulating Brubaker for doing to Kurt what you claim Milligan did to Alex? ;)

Nightcrawler hasn't been leading the team in a long while. Hell the last time Kurt played a major role was under Claremont. But yeah thank god for Brubaker. No more cying emo Havok. Back to the leader he should be.

[Matt K]

Making a character a strong leader isn't making them a Mary-sue character. And this was Havok and he had led X-Factor and the Mutant X team. Milligan saw that he was Cylops little brother and did a crummy job on him.



Yeah he hit such a HR here. There was no end to the plot since it blew so bad. It was Polaris leaving to be someones latest victim as Havok like the obdiant emo child goin "I'm leavin with Lorna , I'm leavin with Lorna. She may look at me now."

It wasn't that good and thank god the writers forgot about it post Milligan.



Lets see.... can't lead a team without Emma , Rogue or Storm taking over . If anyone was Austen's Mary-Sue character it was Annie. He just used that plot with Havok. He saw Havok as a leader and wrote him as that. Milligan saw Havok as nothing. How its better makes me laugh.

Yes its true Austen gets heat on here . But lets be honest. The characters portrayal under Milligan was just bad.




Nightcrawler hasn't been leading the team in a long while. Hell the last time Kurt played a major role was under Claremont. But yeah thank god for Brubaker. No more cying emo Havok. Back to the leader he should be.

Actually Kurt played a major leadership role in Excalibur which lasted until the late 90's and had an especially strong leadership role in Ellis's issues.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Actually Kurt played a major leadership role in Excalibur which lasted until the late 90's and had an especially strong leadership role in Ellis's issues.

Yeah I know. I was talking about just recently. Kurt's last major role was in Claremont's Uncanny.And even then it wasn't something to write home about...

[Matt K]

Yeah I know. I was talking about just recently. Kurt's last major role was in Claremont's Uncanny.And even then it wasn't something to write home about...

For some reason I thought you were talking about old Excalibur. I never read CC's new stuff so I had no clue that Kurt was leading the team so recently.

[jarrod]

Making a character a strong leader isn't making them a Mary-sue character. And this was Havok and he had led X-Factor and the Mutant X team.
No, but making them the unquestionably infallaible, innately desirable, take charge, dominating core character in the narrative does. It was pretty clear Austin was inserting himself into the narrative via Alex, hell he even brought his wife along.


Yeah he hit such a HR here. There was no end to the plot since it blew so bad. It was Polaris leaving to be someones latest victim as Havok like the obdiant emo child goin "I'm leavin with Lorna , I'm leavin with Lorna. She may look at me now."

It wasn't that good and thank god the writers forgot about it post Milligan.
On the contrary, Brubaker ran with it immediately afterwards... Alex's anger management and Lorna's attraction and newfound sense of control came to the fore, and they firmly re-established their relationship.


Lets see.... can't lead a team without Emma , Rogue or Storm taking over .
Insecurity issues have always been central to Alex as a character... being outranked by Alpha-females like Emma or Ororo makes more natural sense for the character than the reverse. Honestly, even Scott tends to bend to both as well... outside Xaiver, I can't think of an X-Man who doesn't generally.


If anyone was Austen's Mary-Sue character it was Annie. He just used that plot with Havok. He saw Havok as a leader and wrote him as that.
No, Annie was Austin inserting his wife, Alex was him inserting himself. Not that this is always a bad thing per se (see Morrison's Cyclops or Ellis' Wisdom) but it was especially foul in this case.


Yes its true Austen gets heat on here . But lets be honest. The characters portrayal under Milligan was just bad.
Eh, I liked his Lorna, Bobby and Alex better for various reasons. Rogue, Logan and Gambit were pretty forgettable either way... Milligan's Emma was great however, better than Whedon even and the best we've seen her post-Morrison imo. To be totally fair though, I liked Austin's Huggernaut and Jean-Paul generally also. Austin's Jubilee and Husk were especially putrid though.


Nightcrawler hasn't been leading the team in a long while. Hell the last time Kurt played a major role was under Claremont. But yeah thank god for Brubaker. No more cying emo Havok. Back to the leader he should be.
He did pretty well under Claremont as XSE leader during the Savange Land, End of Greys and First Forsaken arcs... certainly better than he's been under Brubaker to this point.

But I still fail to see how Kurt's any less a "strong leader" than Alex, especially when his runs as leader (both in the X-Men and on extended sister teams) was arguably quite a bit more successful. So why the double standard when it comes to representation?

[pariah-1972]

I don't think Havok came out looking all that minty fresh during Austins run, we sort of a jerk for hurting the one girl who was always true to him, but then you could use the excuse that Annies kid sort of made him do that with his powers, since he wanted his mom to have a boyfriend and stop moping.

[jarrod]

I don't think Havok came out looking all that minty fresh during Austins run, we sort of a jerk for hurting the one girl who was always true to him, but then you could use the excuse that Annies kid sort of made him do that with his powers, since he wanted his mom to have a boyfriend and stop moping.
I dunno, I'd say the fact that psycho-bitch Lorna came out looking way worse in the whole situation says a lot about what Austin was doing with the characters. Essentially, somehow it was her fault in the end... seriously awful stuff.

[pariah-1972]

I dunno, I'd say the fact that psycho-bitch Lorna came out looking way worse in the whole situation says a lot about what Austin was doing with the characters. Essentially, somehow it was her fault in the end... seriously awful stuff.True but Annie was a man stealer and a bit of a whore since she slept with Iceman right before the marriage.
Austins way with women is certainly despicable but i don't think anyone came out looking like roses he also made She-hulk have a bit of a slutty reputation now too.

[jarrod]

True but Annie was a man stealer and a bit of a whore since she slept with Iceman right before the marriage.
Austins way with women is certainly despicable but i don't think anyone came out looking like roses he also made She-hulk have a bit of a slutty reputation now too.
Well, I can agree there... nobody came out looking good. But still, Alex fared way better than he should've, and saw little to no consequences until Milligan came in tried making sense of things. That's the point, Mary Sues don't always come out of things perfectly, but they generally come out better than they should, and better than the rest of the cast at large.


The only female of Austin's I could even stand was Stacey. Agreed, he's particularly terrible when it comes to the ladies.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

No, but making them the unquestionably infallaible, innately desirable, take charge, dominating core character in the narrative does. It was pretty clear Austin was inserting himself into the narrative via Alex, hell he even brought his wife along.


He was the main leader and focus of the team. Its like when Grant Morrison had Cyclops cheat with Emma. In his run he made Scott the clear leader and with Austin he took Alex and made the leader . But he shared it with Angel who also got heavy work at times.

On the contrary, Brubaker ran with it immediately afterwards... Alex's anger management and Lorna's attraction and newfound sense of control came to the fore, and they firmly re-established their relationship.

Well after the nonsense Milligan laid down I can see Brubaker doing them as a couple again. But it did invoke some laughs at how stupid them becoming a couple asap again. By this point I wished one of them would die so they'd stop being pigeon holed as a couple.


Insecurity issues have always been central to Alex as a character... being outranked by Alpha-females like Emma or Ororo makes more natural sense for the character than the reverse. Honestly, even Scott tends to bend to both as well... outside Xaiver, I can't think of an X-Man who doesn't generally.

At some point you gotta move the character from being an insecure guy and into a leader even if they have issues. And Scott's had issues with Emma as an insecure guy but he's always looked good. At this point Havok had led X-Factor , the Mutant X team and an X-Team. If anything he should have been portrayed stronger even when dealing with the female X-Characters.


No, Annie was Austin inserting his wife, Alex was him inserting himself. Not that this is always a bad thing per se (see Morrison's Cyclops or Ellis' Wisdom) but it was especially foul in this case.

Who was Angel ? Who was Juggernaunt supposed to be ? If anything Havok and Angel had a shared leadership and focus in Uncanny. He just used a soap opera storyline of a man waking from a coma and falling for the nurse. Yes , Annie was his wife...but I can't see him playing Havok since well... he just took him as an established leader of teams and carried it forward.

Eh, I liked his Lorna, Bobby and Alex better for various reasons. Rogue, Logan and Gambit were pretty forgettable either way... Milligan's Emma was great however, better than Whedon even and the best we've seen her post-Morrison imo. To be totally fair though, I liked Austin's Huggernaut and Jean-Paul generally also. Austin's Jubilee and Husk were especially putrid though.

The only positive Milligan gets from me is his use of creating sub-characters that Gambit taught. The rest was forgettable. Yost & Kyle did a better job handling Emma's character beyond Whedon I feel.

He did pretty well under Claremont as XSE leader during the Savange Land, End of Greys and First Forsaken arcs... certainly better than he's been under Brubaker to this point.

They had a leader ? I had thought the team basically had been leaderless since Storm had left . Not doubting Kurt here but it seemed like he really didn't do much under his run except for hit on Rachel.

But I still fail to see how Kurt's any less a "strong leader" than Alex, especially when his runs as leader (both in the X-Men and on extended sister teams) was arguably quite a bit more successful. So why the double standard when it comes to representation?

Nightcrawler hasn't been a big focus for the longest while. Not doubting his leadership but the writers seemingly vote for others to be leaders of the team and go from there. Sad but true,,,

[jarrod]

He was the main leader and focus of the team. Its like when Grant Morrison had Cyclops cheat with Emma. In his run he made Scott the clear leader and with Austin he took Alex and made the leader . But he shared it with Angel who also got heavy work at times.
It's not really at all like Morrison's Cyclops, who he introverted and essentially broke down. Were Claremont a heterosexual woman, I think Sage and Austin's Alex would be somewhat indistinguishable. :P

War started out as more Austin's POV insert, but that got sidelined pretty quick once Alex woke up. Still, he let War bang forbidden fruit, so I can see the confusion. ;)


Well after the nonsense Milligan laid down I can see Brubaker doing them as a couple again. But it did invoke some laughs at how stupid them becoming a couple asap again. By this point I wished one of them would die so they'd stop being pigeon holed as a couple.
Milligan set up the inevitable recoupling, that's chielfy why he had Alex following her around the Carribean and risking his life with CPR (which Bobby had avoided). I agree it's played out at this point, but the coupling was tired well before any of these three writers touched it.


At some point you gotta move the character from being an insecure guy and into a leader even if they have issues. And Scott's had issues with Emma as an insecure guy but he's always looked good. At this point Havok had led X-Factor , the Mutant X team and an X-Team. If anything he should have been portrayed stronger even when dealing with the female X-Characters.
Not only do Emma and Storm outrank Alex on the Institute hierarchy, but they're smarter, more ruthless, more experienced and the former's banging his big brother, who he's always had a complex about. Them dominating is completely in character for all involved, Alex dominating would actually be more of logical blunder given the circumstances.


Who was Angel ? Who was Juggernaunt supposed to be ? If anything Havok and Angel had a shared leadership and focus in Uncanny. He just used a soap opera storyline of a man waking from a coma and falling for the nurse. Yes , Annie was his wife...but I can't see him playing Havok since well... he just took him as an established leader of teams and carried it forward.
I don't see much in your "established leader" claim though, since when is that the whole of core characterization? Where's the inventive, moral, dependable, questioning, complex Alex we came to know under Claremont and PAD so long ago? Turning Alex into just another stock alpha male does the character far more disservice than anything Milligan did.

And all Milligan really did was show Alex as fallable and wanting Lorna back... what's so "off" there anyway?


The only positive Milligan gets from me is his use of creating sub-characters that Gambit taught. The rest was forgettable. Yost & Kyle did a better job handling Emma's character beyond Whedon I feel.
Naw, Milligan had Emms nailed, from the deep rooted vanity complex to the subversively S&M way she related to the group. At least we can agree on the genius of Bling! though. :D


They had a leader ? I had thought the team basically had been leaderless since Storm had left . Not doubting Kurt here but it seemed like he really didn't do much under his run except for hit on Rachel.
Kurt really took charge in all these arcs, particularly with his proactive decisionmaking during EOG and FF. He stepped up to the plate almost immediately post M-Day really, after Storm left the team and the XSE were formally dissolved.

His tenure as Excalibur's leader is pretty impressive also, especially during the Davis (as writer) and Ellis runs.


Nightcrawler hasn't been a big focus for the longest while. Not doubting his leadership but the writers seemingly vote for others to be leaders of the team and go from there. Sad but true,,,
Well, Brubaker certainly has, despite claiming Kurt was actually his squad's leader (who knew?). I'd say this is a problem more endemic of any X-Men characters who come on (or return) from sister teams though. Kurt, Alex, Sam, Dani, Kitty, Lorna, Rachel... in each case it's like they just hit the reset button and ignore any progress made outside the core books.

[pariah-1972]

I don't under why people don't have issues With the whole Juggernaut thing with Austin, it was wildly out of character, even more than Mystique or Rogue being on the team, Juggs has no place on any x-team no matter what hes not a mutant hes a thug with who got luck and was nothing but a huge bully most of his life and a criminal too.
and i resent anyone who tries to make him out to be a lummox with a heart of gold which is such a cliche and doesn't fit.
hes tried to kill the prof numerous times he just not never gotten away with it or even gotten very far.
and he def does need to be on Excalibur who already has a "strong man" or any other team and Austin has done more character damage to him than Polaris who's crazy button has been reset(for now at least)

[jarrod]

Eh, Huggernaut was bad characterization maybe, but it made for a good enough narrative overall so I didn't mind. It's certainly the highpoint of Austin's run...

[pariah-1972]

Eh, Huggernaut was bad characterization maybe, but it made for a good enough narrative overall so I didn't mind. It's certainly the highpoint of Austin's run...Thats about the same as picking out creeds least worst song....

[jarrod]

Thats about the same as picking out creeds least worst song....
Or like winning an argument on the internet... I'm not disagreeing here. :D

[pariah-1972]

Or like winning an argument on the internet... I'm not disagreeing here. :DLOl you got me there i surrender:)

[Phil Hunn]

Eh, Huggernaut was bad characterization maybe, but it made for a good enough narrative overall so I didn't mind. It's certainly the highpoint of Austin's run...

And also something that the X-Office had been building to since at least the Onslaught crossover...

[pariah-1972]

And also something that the X-Office had been building to since at least the Onslaught crossover...Ugh that is true but i just dont thing he belongs on an x-team cause hes so damn big.

[jmc247]

On the contrary, Brubaker ran with it immediately afterwards... Alex's anger management and Lorna's attraction and newfound sense of control came to the fore, and they firmly re-established their relationship.


I liked Milligan's use of Lorna and Alex better then RAFOTSE, Milligan ended with an independent Lorna telling everyone that she wasn't going to belong to anyone for awhile.

[jarrod]

I liked Milligan's use of Lorna and Alex better then RAFOTSE, Milligan ended with an independent Lorna telling everyone that she wasn't going to belong to anyone for awhile.
I liked it more too... but it was at least a realistic sort of progression on Brubaker's part (unlike poor Rachel's "romance", ack!).

[pariah-1972]

I liked Rachels romance lord knows that girl needs to get some luvin, so she will quit whining and complaining all the damn time.:rolleyes:

[Phil Hunn]

I liked Rachels romance lord knows that girl needs to get some luvin, so she will quit whining and complaining all the damn time.:rolleyes:

Rachel getting some isn't the issue.

Rachel getting some off a bird guy who she only knows through his thoughts, thanks to a HUGE FREAKIN' SWORD, on the other hand, was pretty poor show.

[jarrod]

I could've done with the birdbrain date rape, thanks.

Plus, we all know she should've ended up with Warpath. ;)

[jmc247]

Rachel getting some isn't the issue.

Rachel getting some off a bird guy who she only knows through his thoughts, thanks to a HUGE FREAKIN' SWORD, on the other hand, was pretty poor show.

Yah, it was pretty bad.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f132/jmc247/Uncanny_X-Men_479_020_021.jpg

[pariah-1972]

Rachel getting some isn't the issue.

Rachel getting some off a bird guy who she only knows through his thoughts, thanks to a HUGE FREAKIN' SWORD, on the other hand, was pretty poor show.Well first of all they had some sort of mind meld
and secondly they seem to have a lot in common.
is it really so hard to believe to see two good looking people get all hot and heavy without standing around for hours trying to get to know each other?(which would be stupid since they have shared memories know)

[Phil Hunn]

Well first of all they had some sort of mind meld
and secondly they seem to have a lot in common.

Where was this shown, exactly? That's the big problem - it wasn't. Brubaker used the Phoenix Blade as an excuse for the characters to say "Woah, I feel like I've known you my whole life! Wanna have sex?!"

It's exactly the same as Hepzibah throwing herself at Warpath, purely because they were underground. In both instances, the relationships are condensed into micro-pulses of story that should have been stretched out at least for a little while before the characters in question started swapping spit...

[Crimson]

I'm three paragraphs in and all I can think is... My god, stop trying to be funny. You're not.

[pariah-1972]

Where was this shown, exactly? That's the big problem - it wasn't. Brubaker used the Phoenix Blade as an excuse for the characters to say "Woah, I feel like I've known you my whole life! Wanna have sex?!"

It's exactly the same as Hepzibah throwing herself at Warpath, purely because they were underground. In both instances, the relationships are condensed into micro-pulses of story that should have been stretched out at least for a little while before the characters in question started swapping spit...When they Phoenix blade connected with Rachel they showed flash backs of each others history where they have both suffered traumatic events because of the phoenix being in the blood lines/ history.
and considering how people were complaining about the decompression if Bru decided to stretch out the relationship it would have taken up more room in that already flabby middle.
seriously people hook up all the time in comics and real world for absolutely no reason at all cept possibley "he/she is hot"
its not hard to believe for me at all.

[BADunn]

Juggernaut becoming a good guy was the best part of Austen's run and the reason I started reading the book in the first place. I love it when villains turn to the side of good (and vice versa) and Juggernaut seemed to be the type who would eventually choose the good guy role. If you look at some of his older stories you can see he's someone who is more than a strict villain.

Although certain persons will disagree, I am sad to see the MU turning Juggernaut back to evil but I hope that this will only color his story further rather than become a soft retcon. Austen did some weird things on this book but "Huggernaut" was fun for a relatively new reader like me. I don't think every villain should be good--who wants a nice Doctor Doom or a benevolent Lex Luthor--but when the elements are there it's great to see characters transform within.

[Phil Hunn]

seriously people hook up all the time in comics and real world for absolutely no reason at all cept possibley "he/she is hot"
its not hard to believe for me at all.

Does that extend to Austen's run as well, then? Most of his women seemed to be quite happy to leap on any passing guy for very flimsy reasons, after all. I'm not disputing that these things happen... but for them to happen with two separate characters in two successive stories, with virtually the same consequences?

That's poor writing at best, and dreadfully lazy storytelling at worst.

[pariah-1972]

Does that extend to Austen's run as well, then? Most of his women seemed to be quite happy to shag any passing guy if they so much as bought them a choc ice, after all. I'm not disputing that these things happen... but for them to happen with two separate characters in two successive stories, with virtually the same consequences?

That's poor writing at best, and dreadfully lazy writing at worst.I'm no sure i don't remember Annie sleeping with Havok but her sleeping with Iceman was pretty stupid and so was She hulk for sleeping with Juggaurnaut, so i would say yes.

[Phil Hunn]

I'm no sure i don't remember Annie sleeping with Havok but her sleeping with Iceman was pretty stupid and so was She hulk for sleeping with Juggaurnaut, so i would say yes.

That's what I'm talking about - Rachel & Korvus forging an instant connection (which has been undone in the Emperor Vulcan miniseries, by the way) was iffy, but I dealt with it. Hepzibah and Warpath going from "barely friends" to "as intimate as possible" in the time it took to get underground was a little harder to swallow...

[ChemicalReaction]

I liked Austen's run better than Brubraker's current one. At least stuff happened...

[Phil Hunn]

I liked Austen's run better than Brubraker's current one. At least stuff happened...

Doesn't "Lilandra getting dethroned" count as "stuff happening"? I'd have thought it would do, really.

[pariah-1972]

That's what I'm talking about - Rachel & Korvus forging an instant connection (which has been undone in the Emperor Vulcan miniseries, by the way) was iffy, but I dealt with it. Hepzibah and Warpath going from "barely friends" to "as intimate as possible" in the time it took to get underground was a little harder to swallow...Well i haven't read Emperor Vulcan yet,but i pretty much agree unless they can explain that she is grieving or this is how her race grieves.

[Phil Hunn]

Well i haven't read Emperor Vulcan yet,but i pretty much agree unless they can explain that she is grieving or this is how her race grieves.

I think Hepzibah's explanation that "being underground makes me want to mate" is all the explanation we'll be getting on that score, sadly...

[pariah-1972]

I think Hepzibah's explanation that "being underground makes me want to mate" is all the explanation we'll be getting on that score, sadly...Lol that sounds pretty lame to me, but she is an alien so it's not a completely far fetched i guess?

you certainly wouldn't catch me writing that.
i think a lot of comic book writers are sexually frustrated:eek:

[Phil Hunn]

Lol that sounds pretty lame to me, but she is an alien so it's not a completely far fetched i guess?

you certainly wouldn't catch me writing that.
i think a lot of comic book writers are sexually frustrated:eek:

Given that Chuck Austen actually explained that Nurse Annie was supposed to be his own wife in comic-book form... he's either really lucky to have a nympho for a significant other, or he just wants his wife to be a nympho.

You decide which is the better option :p

[pariah-1972]

Given that Chuck Austen actually explained that Nurse Annie was supposed to be his own wife in comic-book form... he's either really lucky to have a nympho for a significant other, or he just wants his wife to be a nympho.

You decide which is the better option :pWell in her defense she didn't really sleep around as i recall.
she probably only slept with Iceman cause she was frustrated with Havok love triangle.
as for the latter comment i really don't know his wife so i can't tell you:p

[Phil Hunn]

Well in her defense she didn't really sleep around as i recall.
she probably only slept with Iceman cause she was frustrated with Havok love triangle.
as for the latter comment i really don't know his wife so i can't tell you:p

I just have to wonder at what her reaction must have been when she saw her counterpart throwing herself at Iceman because he saved her life, and asking Havok if they can have sex while he's wearing his uniform :)

[jmc247]

Given that Chuck Austen actually explained that Nurse Annie was supposed to be his own wife in comic-book form... he's either really lucky to have a nympho for a significant other, or he just wants his wife to be a nympho.


Its usually a mistake when writers put their issues and their families issues into comics.

[pariah-1972]

I just have to wonder at what her reaction must have been when she saw her counterpart throwing herself at Iceman because he saved her life, and asking Havok if they can have sex while he's wearing his uniform :)Well considering he used to do porn comics i doubt that she is going to be too shocked or surprised by that.

[Phil Hunn]

Its usually a mistake when writers put their issues and their families issues into comics.

Chuck's obvious daddy-issues and problems with the Catholic Church really didn't make for interesting reading, did they?

Well considering he used to do porn comics i doubt that she is going to be too shocked or surprised by that.

"Used to"? His most recent work was a baseball porn comic, I believe.

Go with what you know, I guess...

[pariah-1972]

Chuck's obvious daddy-issues and problems with the Catholic Church really didn't make for interesting reading, did they?



"Used to"? His most recent work was a baseball porn comic, I believe.

Go with what you know, I guess...Baseball porn comic? holy gucamole and cheese dips batman ! that sounds like the most homoerotic fanboy thing ever.
oh how the somewhat mighty have fallen !

surely he could do something better than that? maybe some indie comic he made himself where can explore all his little fetishes without bastardizing continuity and characterization?
i sorta feel sorry for the poor bastard now man.

[Monty_Cristo]

baseball and porn go together like...well...a stick and some balls...or a glove and a hand.

[Phil Hunn]

Baseball porn comic? holy gucamole and cheese dips batman ! that sounds like the most homoerotic fanboy thing ever.
oh how the somewhat mighty have fallen !

Oh, come on, can't you just see it?

"Oh, I'm sorry, Mr DiMaggio, I didn't realise your changing room was unlocked... oh my, I didn't realise your bat was so impressive... can I swing it?"

:p

surely he could do something better than that? maybe some indie comic he made himself where can explore all his little fetishes without bastardizing continuity and characterization?
i sorta feel sorry for the poor bastard now man.

WorldWar (his creator-owned foray into superheroics) featured - and I swear I'm not making this up - a Wonder Woman knock-off fighting a giant red demon who threatens to rape her until she dies from it, being saved by a fellow member of her team and then agreeing to go on a date with him. Meanwhile, another member of the team pleasures herself as she watches two other heroes having sex.

I think he indulges himself quite enough :eek:

[pariah-1972]

Oh, come on, can't you just see it?

"Oh, I'm sorry, Mr DiMaggio, I didn't realise your changing room was unlocked... oh my, I didn't realise your bat was so impressive... can I swing it?"

:p



WorldWar (his creator-owned foray into superheroics) featured - and I swear I'm not making this up - a Wonder Woman knock-off fighting a giant red demon who threatens to rape her until she dies from it, being saved by a fellow member of her team and then agreeing to go on a date with him. Meanwhile, another member of the team pleasures herself as she watches two other heroes having sex.

I think he indulges himself quite enough :eek:Well that sounds completely ridiculous,
but to be honest the whole male fantasy of a guy rescuing a girl and she somehow decides to pay him back by either sleeping with him or going on a date with him or falling in love with him (i,e Sin City)


and as far as the WorldWar thing well either hes doing it on purpose to appeal to whatever fanbase he's got or the man is completely and totally off his rocker but as long as hes working in his own little universe and not hurting anyone elses then i'm fine with that.

[Polaris Rocks]

WorldWar (his creator-owned foray into superheroics) featured - and I swear I'm not making this up - a Wonder Woman knock-off fighting a giant red demon who threatens to rape her until she dies from it, being saved by a fellow member of her team and then agreeing to go on a date with him. Meanwhile, another member of the team pleasures herself as she watches two other heroes having sex.

I think he indulges himself quite enough :eek:

Ahahahahaha, sounds like a bad fanfic.

[pariah-1972]

Ahahahahaha, sounds like a bad fanfic.

Makes you wonder if Marvel has any regrets about hiring him...

[Phil Hunn]

Ahahahahaha, sounds like a bad fanfic.

Indeed. I'm sure I've read better at the Definitive X-Men Erotica Archive...

... er, not that I've been there recently :o

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Makes you wonder if Marvel has any regrets about hiring him...

Actually his comic was called Worldwatch ....and it got some good marks for its sillyness (it was pretty much an anything goes riff). Chuck in one issue fired himself and annouced that Samuel Clemens was taking over the series.

In another shock he helped create the "Tripping the Rift" series on Sci-Fi netowrk.


Chuck was doing US War Machine for Marvel when Joe Casey imploded on Uncanny. They never really said he was the permant writer on the series. They just gave him the book... and basicaly kept him there .

Wizard Magazine did ask Joe Quesada in 2003/2004 why he kept Austen on the series and he defended the decision. Claiming that if he listened to online fans he would have never did Ultimate Spiderman ect ect....

[pariah-1972]

Since were on Chuck Austin what was the reason why Lionheart couldn't reveal her secret identity to her kids? it says on wiki that if she wore to reveal herself to them they would die.... all of this seems a little nonsensical to me since the original Captain Britain doesn't have that problem at all.
and how would they die exactly?
and does anyone believe that if her kids were around her long enough no matter what costume she was wearing that they wouldn't recognize her?

these are all very important questions cause i haven't read his avengers run and i am certainly not in the mood too,
thanks.

[xmanson]

His Eternals mini was very good. Full of sex and gore, like the bible.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Since were on Chuck Austin what was the reason why Lionheart couldn't reveal her secret identity to her kids? it says on wiki that if she wore to reveal herself to them they would die.... all of this seems a little nonsensical to me since the original Captain Britain doesn't have that problem at all.
and how would they die exactly?
and does anyone believe that if her kids were around her long enough no matter what costume she was wearing that they wouldn't recognize her?

these are all very important questions cause i haven't read his avengers run and i am certainly not in the mood too,
thanks.

Lionheart chose the sword as the newest Captain Britian. Its said that if she exposed her identity to her children they were destined to die . No reason how. She wore a mask and all...to keep her ID secret.

She was gonna play a big part in Avengers . Claremont took the plot Austen had started in choosing the wrong thing and not being able to be with her children and made her a misunderstood villain.

To be honest ... considering what I got with Bendis on Avengers : Diss-Assembled , I'd rather Austen stayed. Of course current Marvel aren't high on Austen and lately Tom Brevoort claims he really didn't know why he put Austen on the series. It wouldn't be so funny if he wasn't acting like it was ok for a rushed nightmare of Avengers : AD.

[pariah-1972]

So you hate Bendis too ? or just that one arc?
personally of all the stuff i've read of his that i had the least problems with, mostly cause at the time i read it i had been out of the loop for some long that all of it made sense but when i tried to defend it online it all fell apart from people more knowledgeable then me.
but honestly The Avengers having a really bad day where everything goes wrong is a good solid idea wither you agree with the execution is another.


Lionheart chose the sword as the newest Captain Britian. Its said that if she exposed her identity to her children they were destined to die . No reason how. She wore a mask and all...to keep her ID secret.
yes i read all that on wiki but it doesn't really answer the questions i had really but thanks Super.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

So you hate Bendis too ? or just that one arc?
personally of all the stuff i've read of his that i had the least problems with, mostly cause at the time i read it i had been out of the loop for some long that all of it made sense but when i tried to defend it online it all fell apart from people more knowledgeable then me.
but honestly The Avengers having a really bad day where everything goes wrong is a good solid idea wither you agree with the execution is another.


Bendis is ok on good solo books. Where he can use all the pages and do dialogue for characters and do character driven plots. Now imagine him trying to do a team series ..and trying to cram this in ! His "House of M" was a disastor. 7 issues of Wolverine running around , then realizing he had to get to the finish. Not a good thing for a huge Mega Company crossover.

His Avengers : AD could have been good. But was just a rushed nightmare. Heres Vision crashing the hellcarrior into the Mansion , She-Hulk ripping him apart , Jack of Hearts blowing up. It was a bunch of fanfic moments. People rip Austen for it...but by god , Bendis did it all in one arc and it wasn't good.

New Avengers ...really was the whole evil SHIELD plot ever finished ? Has Bendis ever finished up the "Raft" plot ? Its him dropping plots with really no finishes on it.

We'll never know what Austen had planned for Avengers. I did like the plots he was dropping. I would have loved to seen the new Captain Britian as an Avenger...

[pariah-1972]

Bendis is ok on good solo books. Where he can use all the pages and do dialogue for characters and do character driven plots. Now imagine him trying to do a team series ..and trying to cram this in ! His "House of M" was a disastor. 7 issues of Wolverine running around , then realizing he had to get to the finish. Not a good thing for a huge Mega Company crossover.

U completely agree House of M was a complete disaster .. ok everyone gets everything they have ever wanted and everyones happy and Magneto is controlling the world, but he is doing a good job of it and everyones happy !
but yet the heroes have to fight him why? because thats there job: apparently:rolleyes: it is one of the few times i felt that Mags was in the right on something.



Bendis is ok on good solo books. Where he can use all the pages and do dialogue for characters and do character driven plots. Now imagine him trying to do a team series ..and trying to cram this in ! His "House of M" was a disastor. 7 issues of Wolverine running around , then realizing he had to get to the finish. Not a good thing for a huge Mega Company crossover.

His Avengers : AD could have been good. But was just a rushed nightmare. Heres Vision crashing the hellcarrior into the Mansion , She-Hulk ripping him apart , Jack of Hearts blowing up. It was a bunch of fanfic moments. People rip Austen for it...but by god , Bendis did it all in one arc and it wasn't good.

New Avengers ...really was the whole evil SHIELD plot ever finished ? Has Bendis ever finished up the "Raft" plot ? Its him dropping plots with really no finishes on it.

We'll never know what Austen had planned for Avengers. I did like the plots he was dropping. I would have loved to seen the new Captain Britian as an Avenger...i don't know i haven't read it but the fact that her own kids were right there in front of her and they didn't recognize her is completely and utterly ridiculousness but apparently i'm the only one.
anyways Claremont has turned her into a you know what right now.
Bendis is ok on good solo books. Where he can use all the pages and do dialogue for characters and do character driven plots. Now imagine him trying to do a team series ..and trying to cram this in ! His "House of M" was a disastor. 7 issues of Wolverine running around , then realizing he had to get to the finish. Not a good thing for a huge Mega Company crossover.

His Avengers : AD could have been good. But was just a rushed nightmare. Heres Vision crashing the hellcarrior into the Mansion , She-Hulk ripping him apart , Jack of Hearts blowing up. It was a bunch of fanfic moments. People rip Austen for it...but by god , Bendis did it all in one arc and it wasn't good.

New Avengers ...really was the whole evil SHIELD plot ever finished ? Has Bendis ever finished up the "Raft" plot ? Its him dropping plots with really no finishes on it.

I've complained about this before and never got an answer but i'm thinking that it might get cleared up with this whole skrull invasion thing, i don't know why i think that just call it a gut feeling since everything he's done since Disassembled has tied into one another.


anyways i don't even like him on Ultimate Spidey that much.

[Jota]

Bendis is ok on good solo books. Where he can use all the pages and do dialogue for characters and do character driven plots. Now imagine him trying to do a team series ..and trying to cram this in ! His "House of M" was a disastor. 7 issues of Wolverine running around , then realizing he had to get to the finish. Not a good thing for a huge Mega Company crossover. One issue of Wolverine wandering around. ONE!

[SUPERECWFAN1]

One issue of Wolverine wandering around. ONE!

There was 6 to be honest....and this was a mega company crossover. People wanted to see the entire Marvel Universe facing Magneto and his family. It wasn't good.

[Jota]

There was 6 to be honest....and this was a mega company crossover. People wanted to see the entire Marvel Universe facing Magneto and his family. It wasn't good.6 what? There was one issue dedicated to Wolverine. There was another starring a lot of other characters in wich he had a big role. That was it. Using the "Wolverine overuse" card its easy because most people agree he's indeed overused. But HOM wasn't a place were that happened.
People saw the entire Marvel Universe against Magneto's family in HOM. It wasn't good, but that's what they saw!

[jmc247]

People saw the entire Marvel Universe against Magneto's family in HOM. It wasn't good, but that's what they saw!

Huh? Wolverine had more lines then the entire House of M combined. The amount of real Magneto's family interaction between themselves and between others was a joke.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

6 what? There was one issue dedicated to Wolverine. There was another starring a lot of other characters in wich he had a big role. That was it. Using the "Wolverine overuse" card its easy because most people agree he's indeed overused. But HOM wasn't a place were that happened.
People saw the entire Marvel Universe against Magneto's family in HOM. It wasn't good, but that's what they saw!

Huh? Wolverine had more lines then the entire House of M combined. The amount of real Magneto's family interaction between themselves and between others was a joke.

Pretty much what he said. There was more time dedicated to Wolverine in this entire thing. Than building a mega company crossover.

[pariah-1972]

The whole thing was ludacris and poorly paced.
some of the off shoot mini series were interesting especially the Spider Man one.