Is the new X-Force actually

[Rio_de_Janeiro]

Chuck Austen's revenge?

A group of Ferals banding together? Sex rearing the new mutant?

I am still waiting for the mutant angels and satans, however.

cheers,
rio

[Brian M.]

No, it's my story of the Lupine Avengers that sprang forth from the recent Loeb/Bianchi story in Wolverine.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Sometimes I wonder if Marvel writers could ever pass a creative writing class in college.

"They're all killers and have the same powers! Great idea!"

[The Mirrorball Man]

Sometimes I wonder if Marvel writers could ever pass a creative writing class in college.

"They're all killers and have the same powers! Great idea!"

It only sounds absurd in the very specific context of the superhero genre. In most fictional stories, a group of killers sounds less improbable than a group featuring a Greek God, an alien, a robot, a mutant and a super-spy or any other silly concept for a superhero team.

[mattbib]

The new X-Force is...

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/14462577792.406.GIF

TOLD you he wasn't dead.

[Pwood]

The new X-Force is...

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/14462577792.406.GIF

TOLD you he wasn't dead.

Is that the new Captain America costume?

[mattbib]

Is that the new Captain America costume?Yes...Alex Ross is REALLY slipping.

[steve2275]

Yes...Alex Ross is REALLY slipping.heres your sign :p

[The Cool Thatguy]

It only sounds absurd in the very specific context of the superhero genre. In most fictional stories, a group of killers sounds less improbable than a group featuring a Greek God, an alien, a robot, a mutant and a super-spy or any other silly concept for a superhero team.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against groups of killers ;)

Rather, I'm against a group of killers with what might as well be all the same powers. And I'm dreading how they'll depict Rahne. More and more, writers have forgotten that it's her humanity that sets her apart from the animal set, not her Scots accent.

[Brian M.]

Aw what the hell is that Cap comic? Does that mean ... damnit.

[The Mirrorball Man]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against groups of killers ;)

Rather, I'm against a group of killers with what might as well be all the same powers.
I don't mind that. The killers in Reservoir Dogs all had the same powers.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I don't mind that. The killers in Reservoir Dogs all had the same powers.

This is comics though. A completely visual medium. It's a little different ;)

[Deus ex Chris]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against groups of killers ;)

Rather, I'm against a group of killers with what might as well be all the same powers. And I'm dreading how they'll depict Rahne. More and more, writers have forgotten that it's her humanity that sets her apart from the animal set, not her Scots accent.
I doubt they'll forget Rahne's humanity, and I doubt they'll all act like animals. In fact, considering the similarity in powers, I expect the differing personalities and the resulting interactions to be integral to the book. The claws may bring the readers in, but it'll probably be the character interactions that keep them.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I doubt they'll forget Rahne's humanity, and I doubt they'll all act like animals. In fact, considering the similarity in powers, I expect the differing personalities and the resulting interactions to be integral to the book. The claws may bring the readers in, but it'll probably be the character interactions that keep them.

To each their own. The above requires faith in Marvel's writing staff and at the moment I'm short on that ;)

[Deus ex Chris]

To each their own. The above requires faith in Marvel's writing staff and at the moment I'm short on that ;)
Well, considering the short list of writers who have a very good chance of being on the book, I do have some faith.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Well, considering the short list of writers who have a very good chance of being on the book, I do have some faith.

Who are the choices? Gage is about the only one free and good I'd trust on the book.

[The Mirrorball Man]

This is comics though. A completely visual medium. It's a little different ;)

Crime stories are not uncommon in comics, actually, although that may not be the case in the United States.

[Deus ex Chris]

Who are the choices? Gage is about the only one free and good I'd trust on the book.
Well, there's Brubaker, who brought in Warpath and could probably have this book if he wanted. He's the golden boy, after all. There's also Kyle and Yost who are the creators of X-23. Honestly, if it turns out she's leaving New X-Men for X-Force, I'd expect them to follow. I'd be OK with either of those teams. Gage...not so much.

[The Mirrorball Man]

I doubt they'll forget Rahne's humanity, and I doubt they'll all act like animals. In fact, considering the similarity in powers, I expect the differing personalities and the resulting interactions to be integral to the book. The claws may bring the readers in, but it'll probably be the character interactions that keep them.

This is pretty much the way Green Lantern Corps works, actually, if you substitute the magic rings for the claws.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Crime stories are not uncommon in comics, actually, although that may not be the case in the United States.

X-Force isn't a crime story, you may have noticed.

[Deus ex Chris]

This is pretty much the way Green Lantern Corps works, actually, if you substitute the magic rings for the claws.
I actually think it's an interesting crutch. Characters can't be defined by their abilities in a book where everyone has the same abilities.

[Jake V]

X-Force isn't a crime story, you may have noticed.

Oh, you've read it?

What kind of story is it?

[The Cool Thatguy]

I actually think it's an interesting crutch. Characters can't be defined by their abilities in a book where everyone has the same abilities.

The difference with the GL is that, even if they have the same basic powers, they're expressed in different ways. Kyle's art is vastly different from Guy's constructs, for example. In addition, the rings can be used by a doctor to perform an operation as much as they can be used to form armor or create attack animals.

What's more, as they come from alien races, they look vastly different and come from wildly different cultures. It's easy to make them different.

It's alot harder with X-Force. Sensory powers can't be used half as creatively, same with claws. X-23's personality is barely existant, and without alot of annoying ethno-centric remarks it's gonna be hard to tell Wolverine and Warpath's tough guy remarks apart. So yeah, I think my lack of faith is justified ;)

[The Cool Thatguy]

Oh, you've read it?

What kind of story is it?

The writers didn't call it a crime book, so I feel safe in saying it's not.

[steve2275]

I actually think it's an interesting crutch. Characters can't be defined by their abilities in a book where everyone has the same abilities.

i like the anology:p

[KetchFrayz]

Wolverine - Astonishing
Warpath- Uncanny
Rahne- X-Factor
X-23- New X-Men

i wonder if anyone from adjectiveless will be added to the squad :confused:

[Deus ex Chris]

.It's alot harder with X-Force. Sensory powers can't be used half as creatively, same with claws. X-23's personality is barely existant, and without alot of annoying ethno-centric remarks it's gonna be hard to tell Wolverine and Warpath's tough guy remarks apart. So yeah, I think my lack of faith is justified ;)
It isn't just about creative use of powers. The books should always be more about relationships than powers, and I think there are plenty of differences to set them apart and create interesting relationships. X-23 is a cold-blooded killer learning to just be a kid. Wolfsbane is headstrong and definitely has a very strong sense of morality. She'd almost certainly take issue with X-23's methods, as well as Wolverine's, and she wouldn't have a problem voicing her disapproval. Warpath is very much like an early Logan. He's impulsive and rebellious, and I expect some tension to arise because of it. How will Logan respond in a situation where he has to be the anchor and the leader? I think there is plenty to work with in this grouping.

[steve2275]

indeed chris

[Bic]

I actually think it's an interesting crutch. Characters can't be defined by their abilities in a book where everyone has the same abilities.

That take on the book really interests me. Too often characters get shoved onto a team to fill some sort of slot, such as the strong character, the flying character or what have you. But if every character on the team is a variation on a theme it's going to be the differences in personality and approach that define them instead of their powers. The book could still turn into Team Stabby but now, at least, I can see a good direction the title could possibly go in.

As for the Captain America cover, I like that the front of his mask managed to imbed itself into his poofy head hair. I didn't realize that Cap's costume is defined by that "A" stamped on his forehead.

[kate-pryde]

Chuck Austen's revenge?

A group of Ferals banding together? Sex rearing the new mutant?

I am still waiting for the mutant angels and satans, however.

cheers,
rio

Next will be the Kurt and Warren team-up book :rolleyes:

I can't believe how bad X-books are going to get with garbage like X-Force. They might as well have Chuck Austen writing again.

[Pach!]

Next will be the Kurt and Warren team-up book :rolleyes:

I can't believe how bad X-books are going to get with garbage like X-Force. They might as well have Chuck Austen writing again.

If anything the absence of my 2 least favorite characters is something that gives me a lot of hope in the x-books. Hopefully Bishop will not be in a book and then it will be perfect!

[Deus ex Chris]

I can't believe how bad X-books are going to get with garbage like X-Force. They might as well have Chuck Austen writing again.
Have you read them already to know that they'll be bad?

[The Cool Thatguy]

Have you read them already to know that they'll be bad?

Marvel's recent 'creative' history, perhaps?

[Pach!]

Marvel's recent 'creative' history, perhaps?

Examples?

1010

[The Cool Thatguy]

Examples?

1010

Depleting a fiction minority group from millions to hundreds (and then allowing X-writers to functionally ignore it for the longest time). Having a crossover about the personal beliefs of heroes being plot driven, not character driven. Making The Hood, who's entire story was about a small time crook, into the next Kingpin. Resurrecting Captain Marvel. Not keeping Sentry a one shot character.

Each time Marvel either got greedy, or didn't care about logical character progression. To me, X-Force looks to be more of the same.

[Pach!]

Depleting a fiction minority group from millions to hundreds (and then allowing X-writers to functionally ignore it for the longest time). Having a crossover about the personal beliefs of heroes being plot driven, not character driven. Making The Hood, who's entire story was about a small time crook, into the next Kingpin. Resurrecting Captain Marvel. Not keeping Sentry a one shot character.

Each time Marvel either got greedy, or didn't care about logical character progression. To me, X-Force looks to be more of the same.
I enjoyed House of M, Civil War, The Hood being the kingpin, they didn't resurrect Captain Marvel (they brought him back which isn't the same thing) and Sentry has tons of fans.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I enjoyed House of M, Civil War, The Hood being the kingpin, they didn't resurrect Captain Marvel (they brought him back which isn't the same thing) and Sentry has tons of fans.

You don't find it the least bit odd that a story about the personal, core beliefs of heroes was completely plot driven?

[jarrod]

It'd take a Carey or PAD level talent to make this thing readable imo... WWH X-Men was nice, but I'm not sure Gage could cut it. Hell, I'm not sure even Cornell or C&C could do it, and they've done amazingly solid work on the satellite X-books and miniseries.

Brubaker would be awful though, ugh. I'd even take Claremont over that... at least we'd have Logan and Rahne handled well then.

[Deus ex Chris]

You don't find it the least bit odd that a story about the personal, core beliefs of heroes was completely plot driven?
I don't think it's odd at all, considering the real world analogy. 9/11 represented a major turning point for many people. It caused people to reassess their beliefs and perceptions. In my opinion, it made millions of people become disgustingly patriotic, xenophobic, and conservative. It was a catalyst for a change in views. Stamford was very much the same thing for many characters. I think Millar and crew made a completely legitimate choice and very relevant one.

[The Cool Thatguy]

It'd take a Carey or PAD level talent to make this thing readable imo... WWH X-Men was nice, but I'm not sure Gage could cut it. Hell, I'm not sure even Cornell or C&C could do it, and they've done amazingly solid work on the satellite X-books and miniseries.

Brubaker would be awful though, ugh. I'd even take Claremont over that... at least we'd have Logan and Rahne handled well then.

Agreed on the first part, at least ;)

I'm not saying it can't work, because odder titles have like Cable and Deadpool. Just that, I've no reason to have faith in Marvel given their past history. When it comes between doing the interesting thing, and the quickest way to make money, Marvel will always go with the money (as Cable and Deadpool proved when they snuffed it for a Cable series).

[Hi-Fi]

Let them bitch about a book not yet released. It's their prerogative. I'll gladly wait for it. It's not a cast I'd usually enjoy together but it definitely has some interesting possibilities.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I don't think it's odd at all, considering the real world analogy. 9/11 represented a major turning point for many people. It caused people to reassess their beliefs and perceptions. In my opinion, it made millions of people become disgustingly patriotic, xenophobic, and conservative. It was a catalyst for a change in views. Stamford was the same thing.

Those are all views, personal. That wasn't what drove Civil War's story. It was Parker unmasking, Clor, Foster's death and other stuff. Only in one shots did we see characterization.

[Deus ex Chris]

When it comes between doing the interesting thing, and the quickest way to make money, Marvel will always go with the money (as Cable and Deadpool proved when they snuffed it for a Cable series).
That isn't fair at all. Cable & Deadpool had plenty of time to find its feet. It hasn't performed, so Marvel's trying something new.

[Deus ex Chris]

Those are all views, personal. That wasn't what drove Civil War's story. It was Parker unmasking, Clor, Foster's death and other stuff. Only in one shots did we see characterization.
That's precisely what drove Civil War. Spider-Man's unmasking, the clone, and Bill Foster's death were all just ramifications.

[The Cool Thatguy]

That's precisely what drove Civil War. Spider-Man's unmasking, the clone, and Bill Foster's death were all just ramifications.

Then, using just the main book as a guide, explain to me why DD et all were so strongly against it. And again, using just the book, explain why Stark felt so strongly about it, he cloned Thor. And while you're at it, explain why he cloned Thor in the first place.

[Alan2099]

The books should always be more about relationships than powers
Yeah, like that's going to happen. Did you miss the fact that it's a Marvel Superhero book with an X in the title and Wolverine on the team?

[EC1231]

I can see this being the type of book I would pick up.

First, we know what we're getting w/ this book. This isn't going to be some space faring team book or some sentinel factory demolishers. It's going to be more down to Earth book. This is a team made to handle threats like Reavers & Friends of Humanity.

And we'll get to see what kind of team dynamics come into play as well. Wovlerine as the leader, Wolfsbane as the moral compass, Tbird as the passion & powerhouse, and X-23 as the rookie and the person most likely to be affected by the others.

[rwsmith]

It isn't just about creative use of powers. The books should always be more about relationships than powers, and I think there are plenty of differences to set them apart and create interesting relationships. X-23 is a cold-blooded killer learning to just be a kid. Wolfsbane is headstrong and definitely has a very strong sense of morality. She'd almost certainly take issue with X-23's methods, as well as Wolverine's, and she wouldn't have a problem voicing her disapproval. Warpath is very much like an early Logan. He's impulsive and rebellious, and I expect some tension to arise because of it. How will Logan respond in a situation where he has to be the anchor and the leader? I think there is plenty to work with in this grouping.

Shhhh...Chris, you're being far too logical about this. I mean, you're on a comic book message board for Pete's sake!

[Petes Pants]

Where's Thornn in this book? I want her to be a member of X-Force, but she just stays at the base and never goes out on missions because she's afraid that she's going to get gutted like her sister. Plus, she's depressed and still mourning, so she already wears black. Sometimes, when she's alone and she's had a few drinks, she can strip to her bra and panties and prance around singing Shakira songs. Also she will knit hats for the team.

Does this sound like a good idea to anyone else?

[claimtosubclaim]

Yeah, like that's going to happen. Did you miss the fact that it's a Marvel Superhero book with an X in the title and Wolverine on the team?

You mean like Astonishing X-Men, where it was more about the relationships than powers?

[worstblogever]

Wolverine - Astonishing
Warpath- Uncanny
Rahne- X-Factor
X-23- New X-Men

i wonder if anyone from adjectiveless will be added to the squad :confused:

Probably Caliban. He's got claws and a tracking sense.

[CE_Rap]

You mean like Astonishing X-Men, where it was more about the relationships than powers?

they all have different powers and aren't rooted in the same personality.

--

I'll wait and see where this book goes.

I want believe in the idea that a good writer could make this really good. Because, YES, in and of itself, an all-killers team is a fine idea, and hasn't really been touched in the X world. But The Cool ThatGuy has fears that I share. He's going off the track record, and that's fair. They DO tend to be more glits and glamor in regards to Wolverine, and now he's gonna have a team. Could this just end up being a hack and slash with little development in the characters? Well, that's a fair question.

Maybe whoever writes it will pop on these threads and observe what we're saying. I'd have more faith if it was a writer i believed in--and maybe it will be. Hopefully it will be. Brubaker needs to stay away. If Yost and Kyle do come, I hope they do a better job of getting into X's head and character than they did in New X-Men. She needs a helluva lot more direction---especially if she's gonna be around people similar to her.

personally, PAD would have me at "Stan Lee Presents", Carey would have me sold, Bendis would do it for me and I'd at least give Gage the benefit of the doubt in the beginning.

Whoever it is, they need to convince that X-23 will not have a forced Wolverine relationship. Guide her, yes--I'd imagine he'd feel some obligation to do that. But I fear X-23 loosing her individuality. I would hope that her and Rhane, though vastly differently, will become very close (mirroring the relationship of X and Dust--though that never developed further).

Maybe having to deal with personalities as hot-headed as him will give Wolverine perspective.

One other problem is that they all approach fights in the EXACT same manner--bull rush the opponent with claws unfurled and snarling. Show me how X learns self-control, fighting WITHOUT her claws. Show off some of the mild super-speed that Warpath RARELY displays. Wolverine is fully trained in martial artist, yet only displays "martial arts" in a "training scene" of some sort. Show me a different style of fighting from him that might push Wolvie haters to give him props. Have Rhane be somewhat polar opposite. While everyone is learning to hold back in a fight, she's letting loose. It'd be an interesting dynamic to see how X or Wolverine deal with an aggressive Rhane who is fighting to calm herself but wants to run wild.

anyway, those are my thoughts on it

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Gotta say, not too enthusiast about the line-up.

Not quite sure finding a healthy balance between slice'n'dice and character development/relationships will be easy with that kind of team.

Oh, and penalty points for Wolvie and X-23 in the same book. Cause they so won't be hogging panel-time. And keep in mind, I like Wolvie and while I hate the premise of X-23 with a vengeance, she really doesn't annoy me at all in NXM.

[jarrod]

I still think Rachel would work on this team, she's a tracker, she's X-23's roomie, she's like a daughter to Logan, she *should've* slept with Warpath and she could trade hair tips with Rahne. :D

[Diablito]

I hope in my heart that Caliban joins this team.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

I still think Rachel would work on this team, she's a tracker, she's X-23's roomie, she's like a daughter to Logan, she *should've* slept with Warpath and she could trade hair tips with Rahne. :D

What about how her being around would sort of make everyone's contribution in a battle insignificant? :D

ROTFLMAO on the hair tips trading, though. Even Longshot would be running for the hills.

[Diablito]

I still think Rachel would work on this team, she's a tracker, she's X-23's roomie, she's like a daughter to Logan, she *should've* slept with Warpath and she could trade hair tips with Rahne. :D

Well, Rachel is lame, and she has bad taste in men. So, NO SHE CANNOT JOIN THE TEAM. MUAHAHAHA!

[Jota]

It isn't just about creative use of powers. The books should always be more about relationships than powers, and I think there are plenty of differences to set them apart and create interesting relationships. X-23 is a cold-blooded killer learning to just be a kid. Wolfsbane is headstrong and definitely has a very strong sense of morality. She'd almost certainly take issue with X-23's methods, as well as Wolverine's, and she wouldn't have a problem voicing her disapproval. Warpath is very much like an early Logan. He's impulsive and rebellious, and I expect some tension to arise because of it. How will Logan respond in a situation where he has to be the anchor and the leader? I think there is plenty to work with in this grouping.That could work. Let's see how it's going to be.
On the other hand, what does this have to do with Austen? It has one werewolf and she's actually a compeling character who comes up with her own dialogue. People think it will be bad and just throw the guys name into it. It's not like he's got the monopoly on weak stories.

[Joe Franklin]

Let them bitch about a book not yet released. It's their prerogative. I'll gladly wait for it. It's not a cast I'd usually enjoy together but it definitely has some interesting possibilities.

Quoted for the truth.

Remember a few years ago when Marvel announced Young Avengers, and the message board crowd went nuts with the Marvel bashing about them ripping off Teen Titans and how second generation Avengers would suck. Then after issue #1 was released, the message boards were showering Marvel with praises over how good Young Avengers #1 was.;)

[Stix]

I'm going to give it a try. And I'll probably collect it for completest sake. I also enjoy all the characters (except Rahne), so maybe I'm predisposed to be on the side of this book.

As long as it isn't Milligan or Austen writing it...

[MNM]

....she's X-23's roomie...

Isnt that Dust?

[jarrod]

What about how her being around would sort of make everyone's contribution in a battle insignificant? :D
Not if Claremont's writing it.... oh god, what've I done? :o


ROTFLMAO on the hair tips trading, though. Even Longshot would be running for the hills.
Heh, actually this whole team could be characterized by "bad hair". Bring in Shot too actually, his psychometry could come in handy for tracking!


Well, Rachel is lame, and she has bad taste in men. So, NO SHE CANNOT JOIN THE TEAM. MUAHAHAHA!
Buuuut, they're all lame... but yeah, Ray's definitely got the worst taste in dudes (Frankie, Rory and Korvus?! ICK!). Rahne and Laura could give her some pointers...


Isnt that Dust?
It's Dust now, but X-23 was roomates with Kitty and Ray when she first arrived.

[Joe Franklin]

Does this Greg Land cover possibly reveal the entire cast of the new X-Force team in the 2008 re-launch ongoing series?

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/louis665/X-MEN/Messiah.jpg

[CE_Rap]

Does this Greg Land cover possibly reveal the entire cast of the new X-Factor team in the 2008 re-launch ongoing series?

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/louis665/X-MEN/Messiah.jpg


x-force u meant, i think.

And WTF---MYSTIQUE!?! REALLY!?!:confused:

is that Lady Deathstrike with the long fingers?

Is that Forge all teh way in the back? Probably not....


Also, I think thats Land's weakest cover. He's better than that horrid mess.

[CyberHubbs]

I find that to be such a terrible cover. Think I'm starting to long for the day when Laura takes over the reins from Logan and he either dies or retires.

I always thought the X-Titles worked best when using a diversity of characters. Everyone had their role on the team. While these guys will have different personalities, they're too closely cut from the same cloth. Very much an action oriented title. What I'm hoping is that they still interact in other titles, and this is just more of a 'Stuff is going down, suit up and meet on the first page!"

[Joe Franklin]

x-force u meant, i think.


That's what I meant. Thanks.:)

[Faded]

If it weren't for Clayton Crain's promo art, I probably wouldn't be as excited for this as I am...but I am. Excited, that is.

I dislike X-23, but she looked so fierce on the released images. I have faith I can like a lot of these characters that I've never liked--or haven't like in a long time.

I just feel it in my bones that it'll be good!

Which probably means it'll suck...but still!

[Joe Franklin]

If it weren't for Clayton Crain's promo art, I probably wouldn't be as excited for this as I am...but I am. Excited, that is.

I dislike X-23, but she looked so fierce on the released images. I have faith I can like a lot of these characters that I've never liked--or haven't like in a long time.

I just feel it in my bones that it'll be good!

Which probably means it'll suck...but still!

Crain's art is the main reason I am buying this book besides Wolverine. I don't care what the roster is as long as Crain draws it.:cool:

[Rollo_Tomasi]

I have a dreaded feeling that Loeb will be writing this.

[rwsmith]

Crain's art is the main reason I am buying this book besides Wolverine. I don't care what the roster is as long as Crain draws it.:cool:

I'm the opposite. Wolverine (hopefully as leader) is the main reason I'm buying this. I'm not a big fan of Crain's style, as I find his interiors way too chaotic (at least his Ghost Rider mini was).

Perhaps he's refined his storytelling a bit, though. Regardless, I am DEFINITELY onboard!

I have a dreaded feeling that Loeb will be writing this.

Doubtful, as he'll have his hands full with the Ultimate-verse over the course of the next year. I'm betting it might be Brubaker, with Carey moving over to Uncanny. Or perhaps an up-and-comer like Fraction or Guggenheim.

[Joe Franklin]

I'm the opposite. Wolverine (hopefully as leader) is the main reason I'm buying this. I'm not a big fan of Crain's style, as I find his interiors way too chaotic (at least his Ghost Rider mini was).

Perhaps he's refined his storytelling a bit, though. Regardless, I am DEFINITELY onboard!


Crains Sensational Spiderman #26 & #28 art is great. You should check it out from the back issue bins.:)

[Faded]

Doubtful, as he'll have his hands full with the Ultimate-verse over the course of the next year. I'm betting it might be Brubaker, with Carey moving over to Uncanny. Or perhaps an up-and-comer like Fraction or Guggenheim.


Isn't the Order already suffering from delays though?

Otherwise, that could be interesting. I don't know the other guy's work.

[rwsmith]

Crains Sensational Spiderman #26 & #28 art is great. You should check it out from the back issue bins.:)

Will do. Thanks for the tip.

[Rio_de_Janeiro]

Have you read them already to know that they'll be bad?

but I think this argument is detestable. I don't need to eat crap, or munch cockroaches, or read "the soviet union's 1965 governmental statistics" to know they are crap. neither must i throw myself from a building to know it hurts. or even read liefeld's stuff to know he's a terrible writer.

there is a recent history of marvel's crapness, there is my knowledge of these particular marvel characters to know they'd hardly produce a good story, there are critics and board members who'll read it and tell us what it is like for them, there are previews, etc.

apart from byrne-stealing or downloading, how could i know about the story without actually shelling out my money for it. if most signs point to it's being crap, why should i finance it? i don't earn in dollars; my money is devalued in comparison to the american currency... therefore, every comic i dislike involves losing my hard-earned money ( for you to have an idea, when we convert it back to dollars, each comic goes for about 6 dollars, give and take...importing taxes, profit for my lcs...etc.).

therefore, the argument that you MUST read something before to have a valid opinion of it is quite weak.

GRANTED, if most of the readers whose tastes are similar to mine say it's good, and if the previews interest me... I am more than willing to spend some cash and get impacted by the surprise. This has happened to me a few times, and that's how i discovered chase, chronos and many other great series.

cheers,
rio.

[Jake V]

but I think this argument is detestable. I don't need to eat crap, or munch cockroaches, or read "the soviet union's 1965 governmental statistics" to know they are crap. neither must i throw myself from a building to know it hurts. or even read liefeld's stuff to know he's a terrible writer.

there is a recent history of marvel's crapness, there is my knowledge of these particular marvel characters to know they'd hardly produce a good story, there are critics and board members who'll read it and tell us what it is like for them, there are previews, etc.

apart from byrne-stealing or downloading, how could i know about the story without actually shelling out my money for it. if most signs point to it's being crap, why should i finance it? i don't earn in dollars; my money is devalued in comparison to the american currency... therefore, every comic i dislike involves losing my hard-earned money ( for you to have an idea, when we convert it back to dollars, each comic goes for about 6 dollars, give and take...importing taxes, profit for my lcs...etc.).

therefore, the argument that you MUST read something before to have a valid opinion of it is quite weak.

GRANTED, if most of the readers whose tastes are similar to mine say it's good, and if the previews interest me... I am more than willing to spend some cash and get impacted by the surprise. This has happened to me a few times, and that's how i discovered chase, chronos and many other great series.

cheers,
rio.

So if you already know the answer, why are you asking?

[Rio_de_Janeiro]

So if you already know the answer, why are you asking?

to be able to put forth my argumentation on the lack of necessity of reading something before actually commenting on it. it's called rhetorical questioning. it allows me to create a second voice in order to develop dialogisms.

it all ended with the openness to be surprised.

so, if you asked that question, it means you didn't really "get" my "question".

and here it is, explained to you.

cheers,
rio.

[Rio_de_Janeiro]

Quoted for the truth.

Remember a few years ago when Marvel announced Young Avengers, and the message board crowd went nuts with the Marvel bashing about them ripping off Teen Titans and how second generation Avengers would suck. Then after issue #1 was released, the message boards were showering Marvel with praises over how good Young Avengers #1 was.;)


Thank god for the human power of changing one's minds!!!!!!

cheers,
rio.

[Jake V]

to be able to put forth my argumentation on the lack of necessity of reading something before actually commenting on it. it's called rhetorical questioning. it allows me to create a second voice in order to develop dialogisms.

But clearly, you're not interested in a dialogue. You've already made up your mind.

Nothing short of the actual comic is going to change your mind.

So really it seems that you'd like a thread consisting of people agreeing with you.

[Rio_de_Janeiro]

But clearly, you're not interested in a dialogue. You've already made up your mind.

Nothing short of the actual comic is going to change your mind.

So really it seems that you'd like a thread consisting of people agreeing with you.

never did i say i wanted a dialog. i created a rhetorical question which I myself answered (or else it wouldn't be called a rhetorical question, it would be called an open ended question). Rhetorical questions are questions which allow the person who is speaking to answer him or herself. I never preached I wanted a dialog. I simply used a writing resource (such as a soliloquy) in order to comment on a previous poster's comment -- even being careful enough to pre-empt any accusations of being rude or facetious.

and if you had actually read (or understood) my first comment, you'd clearly see that i mentioned, among others, the opinions of the readers in this community whose tastes are similar or at least in accordance to my tastes. I also mentioned the previews. so, no, it won't be the comic itself that will "prove" to me its goodness. It is the opinion of others whom I respect and the previews that i might have access to.

I even gave TWO examples of such facts happening: chase and chronos. in addition, let me add cable & deadpool, which would be the LAST thing I'd ever buy due to my hatred for cable. yet, a board member whose tastes meet mine told me about how good it was. believing her, i bought one issue and was instantly hooked.

I have no problem with threads with different opinions. I have a problem with "seems" because "seems" is just a very 1st person type of perception and adds nothing to the discussion (short of correcting my grammar, which can be a consequence of someone explaining what my wording could be interpreted as.)

so...no...my rhetorical question was not open. it was a comment on a comment. should we all just write direct journalistic or diary-like comments?

hardly.

cheers,
rio.

[Jake V]

never did i say i wanted a dialog. i created a rhetorical question which I myself answered (or else it wouldn't be called a rhetorical question, it would be called an open ended question). Rhetorical questions are questions which allow the person who is speaking to answer him or herself. I never preached I wanted a dialog. I simply used a writing resource (such as a soliloquy) in order to comment on a previous poster's comment -- even being careful enough to pre-empt any accusations of being rude or facetious.

and if you had actually read (or understood) my first comment, you'd clearly see that i mentioned, among others, the opinions of the readers in this community whose tastes are similar or at least in accordance to my tastes. I also mentioned the previews. so, no, it won't be the comic itself that will "prove" to me its goodness. It is the opinion of others whom I respect and the previews that i might have access to.

I even gave TWO examples of such facts happening: chase and chronos. in addition, let me add cable & deadpool, which would be the LAST thing I'd ever buy due to my hatred for cable. yet, a board member whose tastes meet mine told me about how good it was. believing her, i bought one issue and was instantly hooked.

I have no problem with threads with different opinions. I have a problem with "seems" because "seems" is just a very 1st person type of perception and adds nothing to the discussion (short of correcting my grammar, which can be a consequence of someone explaining what my wording could be interpreted as.)

so...no...my rhetorical question was not open. it was a comment on a comment. should we all just write direct journalistic or diary-like comments?

hardly.

cheers,
rio.

Oh. My apologies. In that case,

9. YOUR OPINION ABOUT SOMETHING IS NOT, IN AND OF ITSELF, WORTHY OF ITS OWN THREAD
I understand that you have opinions, and that you think your opinion is interesting, but we have so many discussions where you can express your opinion. You do not need to (and should not) form your own thread to do so.

[Rio_de_Janeiro]

Oh. My apologies. In that case,

9. YOUR OPINION ABOUT SOMETHING IS NOT, IN AND OF ITSELF, WORTHY OF ITS OWN THREAD
I understand that you have opinions, and that you think your opinion is interesting, but we have so many discussions where you can express your opinion. You do not need to (and should not) form your own thread to do so.

oh...now i see....you were commenting on the opening post of this thread... right after a post of mine in which i responded to the comment on reading something to be able to criticize it fully which was the thing you actually quoted........ so DO forgive me for having misunderstood your very original and shockingly non-cliché question...

why did you wait so long to b***h-slap me with the rules...? and why didn't you do it before? we would have avoided all that interesting discussion where people talked about their opinions on wolverine, feral, warpath, caliban, etc. you should have acted more quickly, for this little thread almost escaped from rule 9.

but, yes, please, go ahead, denounce the thread. get it deleted if you so wish. it will certainly make the board a more orderly place.

you know, sometimes things work despite your desires.
it's just a bit weird you complained after the thread had breathed on its own, with all sorts of comments.

but anyways,
no hurt done.

cheers,
rio.

[Joe Franklin]

I'm sold on this new X-Force book thanks to Kyle and Yost as the writing team, and Clayton Crain as the artist.:cool:

[Faded]

I hope Thornn is a member.

[Rio_de_Janeiro]

could you update me on Thornn post-dubai?
and, whilst on that subject, could you also tell me about Feral?

Hadn't one of them died at one point? I always thought those sisters were quite interesting and had some potential. i never got to actually like them...i used to confuse feral with wolfsbane at times...

please update me.

cheers,
rio.

[Anna]

No, it's my story of the Lupine Avengers that sprang forth from the recent Loeb/Bianchi story in Wolverine.


Why!?!Pounding fists on the floor... Why God WHY?????

Oh, Waitaminnit... Because people would by the contents of my cats' litter box if they had the X-Logo on them...

Oh Rio, and Feral and Thornn were grabbed by Romulus(?) and remutated, but they didn't get their full powers back (just the fur and tails); so when Feral went up against Sabetooth he gutted her. This was the final straw that led Wolverine to kill Sabes.