Darwin

[Magneto X]

I loved Darwin's addition. Not only did the writers introduce a character of color, they had him join the team on a permanent basis, they retconed him (and a Danish character and a Hong Kong native) into the past, making the X-Men more diverse retroactively, and they gave him a very cool power, impressive and non-stereotypical.

Reading WWH v. X-Men it occured to me that Darwin's powers were being portrayed in a way that made me think "Darwin's power shouldn't work like that."

His power still isn't stereotypical, and it certainly isn't weak. In fact, it may become so vast that writers stop wanting to use him because he could be a walking deus ex machina.

This is my second beef with how Darwin, a potential gold mine of a character, is being portrayed. (My first is that we finally get a promising character of color and, for some unknown reason, his black and latino ancestry is suddenly being obscured by how his mutation is affecting his ethnic looks (in the manner of Storm, Nekra and Apocalypse). Being drawn uber-pale seems anti-darwinian, if anything, to me, since dark skin provides better protection against the increasing danger of ultra-violet rays than pale complexion! What, were there too many brown X-Men? Anyway ... now it's his powers.

It's not the teleportation, although I have some issue with that.
It was when he received the ability to absorb gamma radiation.
Did that strike anyone else as a bit odd?

My thinking is that as something hits Darwin -- say, the vaccum of space, or a laser, or giant fists, then his body changes to be immune (no longer needs to breathe, cells absorb photons, he becomes invulnerable). This adapting of gamma absorbtion in order to change the Hulk seems unnecesarilly complex an answer to the problem of being punched. I'm not saying Darwin shouldn't be able to do that, but it seems an odd adaptation off the bat.

He is supposed to have "reactive adaptation." That should be different than informed "proactive adapatation." And it shouldn't be a method of giving Darwin whatever power the writer wants to portray instead of the obvious physical response to the danger he is in. Once that is accepted, nobody will worry about Darwin: not only will he be immortal, he'll adapt any power (however obscure) needed to defeat anyone he fights.

Is that Juggernaut coming? Don't worry, Darwin will adapt telepathic death rays and a "helmet teleportation" ability!

Magneto? Wow! Look, little Darwin turned into a magnetic-proof spear. Colosus, why don't you chuck him through the guy's chest and we can go home. Oh. Never mind, looks like he can chuck himself!

It's the planet eater, Galact--! Nevermind. What? Oh, Darwin said he adapted a "cosmic hunger intensifyer ray" that he emits from his eyes. Yeah. What are we doing on the team again?

The WWH danger to Darwin was being pounded or squashed. The obvious transformation would be invulnerability or intangibility or elasticity or maybe fast healing. Instead, of doing the obvious (and Darwin's body has already become denser) instead Darwin's body somehow anaylzed the source of Hulk's power and attempted to allow Darwin to depower the Hulk.

Instead of the power being rather subconscious (he didn't trigger himself getting denser and growing gills. etc.) this time his power trusted him to control an ability (he triggered the energy absorbtion). And instead of the power being unknown until it was needed, Darwin said "It feels like some kind of energy absorbtion." And instead of being a direct and defensive response to the danger that changed Darwin, it was indirect and almost-intelligently designed method of Darwin proactively changing the Hulk!

If this keeps up, Darwin's going to be a dues ex machina and I suppose I'll accept the fact that he's drawn as the palest of the X-Men (second only maybe to Caliban) because in this portrayal Darwin's powers are not cool at all.

[Brian M.]

I agree with that. I wasn't a fan of how Gage displayed his power. I'm not gonna knock him for it b/c Darwin still has so much room to be worked with, but it always felt like his powers were defensive. Like how Brubaker used him in the Shi'ar arc. I liked that scene where he is trying to get Xavier out of the prison and it has laser bars and at first it cuts his finger off, but then his body reacts and he can walk through them. I like how when he was shot into space it took a second or two for him to adapt. The offense thing of draining Gamma energy from Hulk wasn't something I thought should happen.

I loved Deadly Gensis and the retcon that occured bringing them back. As for the color of his skin, I'm on the side that skin color doesn't make a person who he is, so it doesn't really matter to me. Make Cyclops black, won't matter one damn bit to me.

I hope Darwin doesn't become a deus ex machina and that writers...specially after Messiah Complex, use him and continue to make him an interesting character.

[jarrod]

Good concept and great backstory in Deadly Genesis, but he was downright awful in Brubaker's first arc (though to be fair, who wasn't?). Didn't like Gage's version either, gotta say I'm glad he's mia from the books as of now.

[Fatguy]

As for the color of his skin, I'm on the side that skin color doesn't make a person who he is, so it doesn't really matter to me. Make Cyclops black, won't matter one damn bit to me.

I obviously agree, but I disagree at the same time. Out of all the crap thats said around here, the only thing thats hard to argue is that there arent enough non-white X-Men, so its kinda lame that he seems be "whitening", I guess is the only way I can think to say it right now lol

I dont know anything about Darwin outside of the Shiar arc, and I have to admit I had no idea he wasnt white.

[sinjection]

The :( face gave me a bit of a start, M-X.

I was all prepared to read about how yet another black male mutant had been ushered into the cold embrace of death by the x-writers.

Happy to see that I was mistaken. For now anyway.

[Brian M.]

I obviously agree, but I disagree at the same time. Out of all the crap thats said around here, the only thing thats hard to argue is that there arent enough non-white X-Men, so its kinda lame that he seems be "whitening", I guess is the only way I can think to say it right now lol

I dont know anything about Darwin outside of the Shiar arc, and I have to admit I had no idea he wasnt white.

I think it was alright, if I remember right, Brubaker explained it in the back-ups in DG that introduced the new mutants. It started when his powers really started to manifest.

But I do with they'd bring back Sway or Petra.

[sinjection]

I dont know anything about Darwin outside of the Shiar arc, and I have to admit I had no idea he wasnt white.

Well, there you go. That seems to be the way the x-writers like it. Black mutants who don't look black and don't associate with other blacks seems to be the working formula.

I suspect that once more fans begin to realize that Darwin is the beautiful blending of black and Puerto Rican under that grotesque chalk-white exterior, his days as a living mutant will be numbered.

[Karl H]

I think it was alright, if I remember right, Brubaker explained it in the back-ups in DG that introduced the new mutants. It started when his powers really started to manifest.

But I do with they'd bring back Sway or Petra.

I may have to go back and re-read those.

[Brian M.]

I'm sure we'll see Darwin after Messiah Complex. My bet is he gets on a team book.

[Pach!]

Was he always completely "reactive" though? Didn't he stretch to escape some guards in RAFOTSE?

Or when he jumped of his roof, he didn't hit the floor and then adapt, he adapted before he hit the floor.

[Brian M.]

Was he always completely "reactive" though? Didn't he stretch to escape some guards in RAFOTSE?

Or when he jumped of his roof, he didn't hit the floor and then adapt, he adapted before he hit the floor.

His body probably reacted in midair, it knew it was gonna hit the ground and needed to change to protect him.

As for him stetching on the roof it was just the reaction of his arms and legs nothing long enough to each the other side.

I think it all still fits into reactive.

[caney]

Was he always completely "reactive" though? Didn't he stretch to escape some guards in RAFOTSE?

Or when he jumped of his roof, he didn't hit the floor and then adapt, he adapted before he hit the floor.

In the What if: Deadly Genesis story he was able to proactively use his powers to depower Vulcan. Of course that was after he'd been through years of training with his powers.

[Pro]

Darwin rocks, he's one of my favorite new characters.
But yea WWH portrayed him all wrong. He shouldn't be able to come up with offensive ways to tackle problems. It's much more fun when he reacts to danger and for the most part is just human otherwise.
The way WWH had Darwin react to danger seemed illogical. I was hoping for the Hulk trying to smack him around with Darwin not getting hurt at all and Darwin throwing punches at the Hulk with normal human strength and Hulk eventually just walking away from him because the fight is pointless.

I like Darwin when his power is to adapt to danger in a straight forward manner. Getting punched? Grow diamond hard armor. Hulk tries to rip you apart? Go rubbery. Tossed in acid? Corrossive resistance.

Of course there is the question of where does it end.
He escaped the shi'ar jail but was it because he was jailed or because the bars were meant to cut him and thus he adapted to the damage? Can he escape a prison with normal bars if he is not in direct danger? Can he escape a forcefield if it doesn't crush or suffocate him? What if the sun blows up? Can he adapt?

[Swashbuckler]

Eh, I'm not a fan of Darwin. I think his power is alright, but writers won't use it properly and then before you know it he will be able to do anything he wants to. He could then battle Sage to the death. That'd be awesome!

As for his ethnicity, I remember him being black or puerto rican or whatever, and then changing but I didn't think it was too much of a big deal. I think they're are plenty of black heroes and it bothers me when people complain about that. Quit focusing on skin color. It's just not important.

[Pro]

I suspect that once more fans begin to realize that Darwin is the beautiful blending of black and Puerto Rican under that grotesque chalk-white exterior, his days as a living mutant will be numbered.

Most fans don't give a rat's arse about whether Darwin is black puerto rican or grotesquely white, he's just a great character. It's just some people seem obsessed about pigmentation and they're not all white.

[Magneto X]

The :( face gave me a bit of a start, M-X.

I was all prepared to read about how yet another black male mutant had been ushered into the cold embrace of death by the x-writers.

Happy to see that I was mistaken.

Not so fast. A dude that albino is soon dying of skin cancer unless he stays in the shade! And wouldn't that be a pathetic end?

"He survived outerspace and the Hulk. But the only adaptation his power couldn't comprehend was the need for pigment against harmful UV rays! Why!"

it doesn't really matter to me. Make Cyclops black, won't matter one damn bit to me.

Stephen!?! Is that you, Stephen?

“I’m colorblind. I don’t see race, folks, and I always thought my gated community was incredibly diverse. But, uh, today I asked around and it turns out that everyone at last week’s ‘smooth jazz and mayonnaise block party’ was in fact white!”

In the What if: Deadly Genesis story he was able to proactively use his powers to depower Vulcan. Of course that was after he'd been through years of training with his powers.

That's just gross. Then he's basically:

http://www.comicvine.com/cassandra-nova/11317/costumes/&c=10732





Ew. And he's stating to Look like her too.






Ew.

[jarrod]

Well, there you go. That seems to be the way the x-writers like it. Black mutants who don't look black
To be fair, this is pretty prevalent among caucasian mutants as well (Nightcrawler, Beast, Caliban, Mystique, Domino, Kylun, Lifeguard, Elixir, Mercury, Anole, Leech, Random, Holly, Dead Girl, etc, etc). There's tons of white mutants with skin tones or physical abnormalities that can confuse their race.

[Brian M.]

Not so fast. A dude that albino is soon dying of skin cancer unless he stays in the shade! And wouldn't that be a pathetic end?

"He survived outerspace and the Hulk. But the only adaptation his power couldn't comprehend was the need for pigment against harmful UV rays! Why!"



Stephen!?! Is that you, Stephen?

“I’m colorblind. I don’t see race, folks, and I always thought my gated community was incredibly diverse. But, uh, today I asked around and it turns out that everyone at last week’s ‘smooth jazz and mayonnaise block party’ was in fact white!”



That's just gross. Then he's basically:

http://www.comicvine.com/cassandra-nova/11317/costumes/&c=10732





Ew. And he's stating to Look like her too.






Ew.







I'll just start calling my friend Black Guy 1 and Black Guy 2, White Girl 7 and Mexican Boy 5.

[Pach!]

I'll just start calling my friend Black Guy 1 and Black Guy 2, White Girl 7 and Mexican Boy 5.

Whatever, White Boy # 324

[Magneto X]

To be fair, this is pretty prevalent among caucasian mutants as well (Nightcrawler, Beast, Caliban, Mystique, Domino, Kylun, Lifeguard, Elixir, Mercury, Anole, Leech, Random, Holly, Dead Girl, etc, etc). There's tons of white mutants with skin tones or physical abnormalities that can confuse their race.

One difference is in the percentages. For example, if a community has 100 black residents and 1000 white residents, I say: "Isn't it funny that 80 black residents get pulled in for police lineups." If you reply, "Yes, but 100 white residents have been taken to the police station as well, so it is neutral!" How is 80% of blacks versus 10% of whites neutral?

Another difference is the extent that the physical differences HAPPEN to obscure one race for another. Number of famous African American mutants whose mutation gives them white features? About half of them! Number of famous white mutatns whose mutation gives them African American features? I don't know a single one (having a tail or fur doesn't make you look African Amercian). And even if there are, it certainly isn't half of all famous white mutants!

If the many many (in comparison to mutants-of-color, despite the actual representations in the world) white mutants look funny at a rate of 2% or 3%, that doesn't create an obvious pattern. Also, none of them are given black features. Blue isn't a race.

But there are only a handful of black mutants. And Apocalypse, Darwin, Storm, and Nekra all not only look funny, but their feautres make them look Caucasion.

You're not actually arguing there isn't some kind of pattern here, are you?

[Pach!]

Darwin does not look Caucasian.He looks like an alien.

White people are beautiful. They do not look like Darwin.

[Magneto X]

Darwin does not look Caucasian.He looks like an alien.

White people are beautiful. They do not look like Darwin.

True enough. He is not just white. He's also very ugly. But he looks like an uglified white or albino person. We've already had people confirm they had no idea he wasn't white.

[Brian M.]

True enough. He is not just white. He's also very ugly. But he looks like an uglified white or albino person. We've already had people confirm they had no idea he wasn't white.

He's our Michael Jackson of the X-Men.

[Pach!]

True enough. He is not just white. He's also very ugly. But he looks like an uglified white or albino person. We've already had people confirm they had no idea he wasn't white.

There is no such thing as an uglified white person.

If they read his story they would know. Bling! doesn't look black either, but she is. Nightcrawler doesn't look white, Bubblegum doesn't look italian, etc. You can't tell anything by the appearance.

[Fatguy]

He's our Michael Jackson of the X-Men.

LOL dammit, I was gonna post that.

[Kyle R]

I like Darwin when his power is to adapt to danger in a straight forward manner. Getting punched? Grow diamond hard armor. Hulk tries to rip you apart? Go rubbery. Tossed in acid? Corrossive resistance.
Or, his sweat could turn into a base and neutralise the acid. I love freaky powers.

Regard the Hulk fight, I can't remember exactly what happened, but it involved him attempting to absorb the Hulk's gamma radiation, yeah? While the mSv a person would be exposed to just by hanging around him apparently isn't enough to give someone cancer, he can still be tracked using devices which detect ambient gamma radiation, so that means his body is pumping out ionizing radiation in excess of what a person would normally be exposed to, and presumably Darwin's body would react to protect him.

Considering his level of control--enough that he was able to absorb Vulcan's powers in DEADLY GENESIS--he could, presumably, alter his body's ability to protect him from gamma radiation to the point where it absorbs it.

It's pretty weak a pretty weak explination, but I don't see it outside the scope of his powers. Still, it would obviously be for the best if his powers were used in a primarily defensive manner, with a proactive imagination.

Not so fast. A dude that albino is soon dying of skin cancer unless he stays in the shade! And wouldn't that be a pathetic end?

"He survived outerspace and the Hulk. But the only adaptation his power couldn't comprehend was the need for pigment against harmful UV rays! Why!"
You're presuming his skin has the same properties as yours or mine. Remember, lighter colours are reflective, and thus his chalky complexion is not an unrealistic reaction to UV light.

[Fatguy]

You're presuming his skin has the same properties as yours or mine. Remember, lighter colours are reflective, and thus his chalky complexion is not an unrealistic reaction to UV light.

Way to take a funny joke and nitpick it!

/Buzzkill

[jarrod]

But there are only a handful of black mutants. And Apocalypse, Darwin, Storm, and Nekra all not only look funny, but their feautres make them look Caucasion.
Er... none of those characters (except Nekra.. who's mutation was possibly tied to changing her racial appearance) look caucasian. At all.

The closest you'd come is Storm, and her features are actually more asian than caucasian, and she certainly would never be mistaken for either race.


You're not actually arguing there isn't some kind of pattern here, are you?
No, there really isn't. Despite the racist conspiracy theories, it's obviously mostly random these days.

[Pro]

You're not actually arguing there isn't some kind of pattern here, are you?

The absense of minorities until the late 60's is obviously influenced by racism though it doesn't automatically follow artists and writers are racist for not including more minorities back then or today. The big deal of the x-men relaunch was that it was a diverse team from many nations. The whole point of the x-men was to show that diversity does not justify discrimination, at least that became a strong plot point with the relaunch in the late sixties.
Are you argueing Darwin was made white to make him less black? What's the point of making him of african-american/puertorican descend if the point of making him pale was to make him less black? What's the point of giving Apocalypse an egyptian background if the point of making him blue was to obscure that fact? What's the point of writing Storm with an african background if the straight hair and blue eyes were specifically intended to obscure her background?

I think you're reading too much into this. Characters often have quirks to make them stand out. Wolverine has quirky hair, Abbys is black (but he's Nightcrawler's brother who looks blue but really was raised by gypsies who spoke german and let's not even start about their father and siblings, now there's a diverse family for you), Blob is fat, Rogue has a skunkstripe through her hair, Storm has straight white hair, Santos looks like a pile of rocks and Darwin is chalky white. Take away those features and they become less recognisable.

Most artists simply aren't adept enough to draw diverse characters and the medium doesn't really lend itself to artwork that defines charaters through facial features, both due to time constraints and because drawing action sequences in which each character is recognisable by their facial features is very very difficult and restraining artistically speaking.

[Kyle R]

Way to take a funny joke and nitpick it!

/Buzzkill
Sorry. It was the second time it had been brought up, and I'm far to lazy to have searched down the first, non-joking [I think] mention.

[protogarrett]

Good character but I bet he has gone the way of Lifegaurd and Reyes, into limbo never to be saeen again. And yeah, gamma sucking fingers? Lame.

[Magneto X]

lighter colours are reflective, and thus his chalky complexion is not an unrealistic reaction to UV light.


Um. That sounds like a rather desperate justification to me.

More likely he's subconciously being portrayed as popular culture portrayes aliens.
And aliens, having come to Earth, are more advanced.
Pale (if not green). Bald. Big eyes.

Both Darwin and aliens are drawn to evoke them being more advanced.

And while that attitude is great for a character of color, it's not if "advanced" means being made lighter in color. And why draw him brown, and then make him paler and paler later!?!


Er... none of those characters (except Nekra.. who's mutation was possibly tied to changing her racial appearance) look caucasian. At all.

The closest you'd come is Storm, and her features are actually more asian than caucasian, and she certainly would never be mistaken for either race.

No, there really isn't. Despite the racist conspiracy theories, it's obviously mostly random these days.

African Americans are most notable by: kinky hair, dark hair, brown eyes, and brown skin. The most well known black mutants are: Storm, Bishop, Apocalypse, and Darwin. Of these four, three of them lack their kinky hair. Three of them lack their brown eyes. Three of them lack their dark hair. Two of them lack their brown skin.

So I suppose I agree with you this is "obviously random" --
if you define "random" as: "a heavilly skewed pattern"
And you define "obvious" as: "curious" or "inexplicable".

The most well known white mutants might include: Wolverine, Professor X, Cyclops, Gambit, Colosus, Kitty, Emma, Iceman, Angel, Jean Grey, Beast, and Nightcrawler.

Three are deformed by their mutation. None were given brown or black skin. None were given brown eyes. None were given kinky hair. The two who were darkened at all were given blue hair. One has red eyes.

Why make Storm African?

The issue that debuted Storm, an African, included a person from almost every other part of the planet (a Russian, a German, a Canadian, etc.). Of them, only Storm and Kurt were deformed. Kurt's was race-neutral, in that no race is blue. Storm had blue eyes and anglo hair, and although white is arguably race-neutral it flows like a white supermodel's hair. And while Kurt spoke German all the time (as did Colosus with Russian), when did Ororo ever say a word in anything but English? She lived in Egypt and Kenya but only spoke English!?! It seems subconcisously, there was some hestitation with Ororo. She was black, but an African princess, who didn't hobnob much with the locals, one with long flowy hair, and no speaking of African languages, and blue eyes. She was African, but not too much, only tolerably so.

Blob is fat, Rogue has a skunkstripe through her hair, Storm has straight white hair, Santos looks like a pile of rocks and Darwin is chalky white. Take away those features and they become less recognisable.


Of course there will be physical quirks. A stripe in your hair is surely not a race conscious feature. Neither is green hair, green skin, or blue skin.

And, can you explain, the reason why zero "quirks" have been written to give black features to a white character? While the first famous black character and then half of the subsequent famous black characters have "quirks" that give them white features for their eye color, skin color, hair color, and/or hair texture?

Possible Answer 1: coincidence. I think a probability analyst would find that dubious. I find it self-delusional if it comes from the writer, niave or "rose colored glasses" from the reader. The patterns are strong evidence against this pattern being mere coincidence.

Possible Answer 2: subconcious perceptions of beauty in the minds of the character's creators, all of whom were white. What, besides hope, is the evidence against that?

[Brian M.]

Maybe we should just relaunch the Marvel U and redo all the characters. Account for every possible race and color and religion and sexual orientation. That way for people who only see people as a skin color it'll be fair. The Original 5 X-Men can be relaunched.

Professor Xavier: An asian woman confined to a wheel chair who's thinking of becoming a man.
Cyclops: An eskimo gay man who is also Jewish.
Jean Grey: A proud latino woman who also has a love of greek women.
Angel: A black man who wants nothing to do but beat up his white teammates but still maintains good christian values.
Iceman: A spoiled rich white boy who is of buddist decent.
Beast: A big hairy burley Indian man who likes to dress up in women's clothes.

[Magneto X]

Maybe we should just relaunch the Marvel U and redo all the characters.


OR, since Marvel identified the racial-skewing as a problem in the 1960s, they could have just made a proportional number of new characters be people of color. And then, over the last fifty years, the problem would have been solved. Instead they create one character of color for every twenty or thirty white ones and continue to exacerbate the skew they've understood for over fifty years now.


How about having a reasonable share of new characters be from different racial backgrounds?


You know: realism.



Unless you know of some scientific reason why mutation and superpowers predominantly affect white people?

If not, it's bad writing.

[Pach!]

OR, since Marvel identified the racial-skewing as a problem in the 1960s, they could have just made a proportional number of new characters be people of color. And then, over the last fifty years, the problem would have been solved. Instead they create one character of color for every twenty or thirty white ones and continue to exacerbate the skew they've understood for over fifty years now.

I agree with this idea, they need to correct it. Specially in the non-black, non-white department. There are so many minorities underrepresented.

[Brian M.]

OR, since Marvel identified the racial-skewing as a problem in the 1960s, they could have just made a proportional number of new characters be people of color. And then, over the last fifty years, the problem would have been solved. Instead they create one character of color for every twenty or thirty white ones and continue to exacerbate the skew they've understood for over fifty years now.

Throwing a fake number out here, but it's not valid b/c it'll go w/ the point I'm trying to make. If 80% of your readership is white males, should not 80% of the cast be white males? If it's this is a business and not a politically correct circus, then does that not make sense?

[Fatguy]

OR, since Marvel identified the racial-skewing as a problem in the 1960s, they could have just made a proportional number of new characters be people of color. And then, over the last fifty years, the problem would have been solved. Instead they create one character of color for every twenty or thirty white ones and continue to exacerbate the skew they've understood for over fifty years now.

They do create quite a few new black characters, but they have the same problem ALL new characters do. People just dont tend to support new ideas in comics. Which is unfortunate.

[jarrod]

African Americans are most notable by: kinky hair, dark hair, brown eyes, and brown skin. The five most well known black mutants are: Storm, Bishop, Darwin, Apocalypse, and Cloak. Of these five, three of them lack kinky hair. Three of them lack brown eyes. Three of them lack dark hair. Two of them lack brown skin.
I wouldn't put Darwin in the top 5, or even top 6 honestly... even Synch or Monet would come in ahead of him imo, though Monet's mixed race. At which point we'd get two out of six of the top black mutants who's features don't follow racial trends.

And again, having racially divergent features is different from black characters having caucasian features... the latter of which isn't the case for any of the aforementioned characters. Honestly, I'm baffled in how you could come to that sort of conclusion with either Apocalypse or Storm?


So I suppose I agree with you this is "obviously random" --
if you define "random" as: "a heavilly skewed pattern"
And you define "obvious" as: "curious" or "inexplicable".

The most well known white mutants might include: Wolverine, Professor X, Cyclops, Gambit, Colosus, Kitty, Emma, Iceman, Angel, Jean Grey, Beast, and Nightcrawler.

Three are deformed by their mutation. Two have blue hair. One has red eyes.
I'd add Rogue, Magneto, Mystique and Toad to the above list honestly. In which case you get five cases of hair color/texture/shape deviation, five cases of eye color deviation and two cases of skin color deviation (3 if we count Warren's run as blue skinned, due to the same technology that altered Apocalypse's apprearance). It's also worth noting characters like Colossus, Emma and Iceman can lose certain racial features when they actively use their powers.... so all totaled, out of this list of 16 caucasian mutants, 8 of them actually have racially divergent attributes in some way (11 if we count those who lose features when using their powers, 12 if we add Warren's blue period).

Seems the odds aren't working in your favor suddenly. ;)

[worstblogever]

Darwin should use his powers to keep himself out of racial debates on the internet. I'd be much safer. :o

[Brian M.]

You want a scientific reason? Ok. Most of these stories take place in New York City, Manhattan. The MAJORITY OF PEOPLE THERE: White. There are other colors, but the majority is white, caucasian. Therefore the chances of an accident, gamma ray bomb, bitten by radioactive spider's, would be better for white folks, since there is more of them, then there would be latino, african, asian folks. As for mutancy, same theory can apply. Law of Large Numbers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_large_numbers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_New_York_City
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/36/3651000.html
44% of the people in New York City are white. Only 28% black.

[Magneto X]

They do create quite a few new black characters, but they have the same problem ALL new characters do. People just dont tend to support new ideas in comics. Which is unfortunate.

Since the "Giant Sized" relaunch, a lot of white characters were successfully introduced:

Shadowcat
Rogue
Polaris
Psylocke
Dazzler
Longshot
Multiple Man
Cannonball
Wolfsbane
Sage
Chamber
Gambit
etc., etc.

[frog]

Unless you know of some scientific reason why mutation and superpowers predominantly affect white people?

If not, it's bad writing.


That's not implausible, you know. Different races are affected in substantially disproportionate ways by certain diseases. For example, black people are far more likely to develop sickle-cell anemia. Perhaps the factors that make for mutants are more prevalent among caucasions.

[Brian M.]

Since the "Giant Sized" relaunch, a lot of white characters were successfully introduced:

Shadowcat
Rogue
Polaris
Psylocke
Dazzler
Longshot
Multiple Man
Cannonball
Wolfsbane
Sage
Chamber
Gambit
etc., etc.

Eh...Psylocke is now Asian. Also I'd debate how successful Sage has been. She's been used, but I don't know anyone who likes her...

[worstblogever]

If Darwin was in a race war, would his power force him to morph into, and join the winning side? :confused:

Now there's a new version of "If a tree falls in the forest..."

But at least I made it about Darwin.

[Fatguy]

Since the "Giant Sized" relaunch, a lot of white characters were successfully introduced:

Shadowcat
Rogue
Polaris
Psylocke
Dazzler
Longshot
Multiple Man
Cannonball
Wolfsbane
Sage
Chamber
Gambit
etc., etc.

Thats true, but I wonder when exactly Marvel (or most of media, for that matter) really started to think in terms of diversity. Most (if not all, I'm no expert on character timelines) of those characters are from the 70's.

[jarrod]

Since the "Giant Sized" relaunch, a lot of white characters were successfully introduced:

Shadowcat
Rogue
Polaris
Psylocke
Dazzler
Longshot
Multiple Man
Cannonball
Wolfsbane
Sage
Chamber
Gambit
etc., etc.
Of those, 4 have racially divergent features, one's an alien and one even had her race changed on her. ;)

[Magneto X]

Whatever. Feel free to lump green hair on a white woman and red eyes on a cajun with a pale African Puero Rican and blue eyes and wavy hair on an African woman who can't speak any African dialects. Apparantly mutation only works two ways: inhuman colors and caucasion colors.




The MAJORITY OF PEOPLE THERE: White. There are other colors, but the majority is white, caucasian. Therefore the chances of an accident, gamma ray bomb, bitten by radioactive spider's, would be better for white folks, since there is more of them, then there would be latino, african, asian folks.


But over 90% of the X-Men have been non-hispanic white people.

New York City is not over 90% non-hispanic white people.

37% (at most) of New York City is non-hispanic white people.

[Brian M.]

37% (at most) of New York City is non-hispanic white people.

But over 90% of the X-Men have been non-hispanic white people.




That's becuase not all X-Men come from NYC.

I'm not quite sure what your expecting folks to say? Burn all Marvel comics that aren't fitting to your diversity standards? I mean no one is saying we shouldn't have more minorities, but we also shouldn't spare characters from certain events just becuase they are minority characters.

[jarrod]

Whatever. Feel free to lump green hair on a white woman with blue eyes and wavy hair on an african.
I don't see it as much different from Storm's stark white hair honestly. Neither's really a feature found in any race naturally.

[Pach!]

A lot of those are diversity. Before Shadowcat how many jewish mutants did we have? Sage is welsh, etc. It's not like they'reall white WASPs.

And that's around the time we saw:
Dani
Sunspot
Karma
Storm
Thunderbird
Sunfire
The other thunderbird
etc.

[DDM]

Darwin does not look Caucasian.He looks like an alien.

White people are beautiful. They do not look like Darwin.

Darwin's skin is the color of ashe. It does not help he looks like a Holocaust survivor too.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Wolfsbane's from an entirely different culture, one of the few Scottish heroines that I know about...and for all that, she's just lumped in with the white crowd. Yeesh.

[Brian M.]

With a world population of over 6,000,000,000 people if every single one was turned into a hero or a mutant, then you would get closer to the 37% non white number and the 44% white numbers. But the law of large numbers only applies to LARGE NUMBERS. I'm gonna kinda contradict my point I think earlier but bare w/ me. You flip a coin 10 times, your not gonna get 5 heads and 5 tails. You could get 8 heads and 2 tails. You flip 20, 30 times, it's not gonna be 50%. If you flip it a million times, you might get close to the 50% heads and 50% tails. Mutants at their height were only about 1-2% of the population of the planet. Not enough to get an equal diverse proportion. You also have to take into account that Marvel is really only telling stories from a couple locations, NYC being the main one.

[jarrod]

37% (at most) of New York City is non-hispanic white people.

But over 90% of the X-Men have been non-hispanic white people.



That data's from the 2005 census, so slightly out of date. Even so, the figure is 45% when considering all white lineages.

Anyway, it's moot as the X-Men aren't actually stationed in NYC... but, I wonder what the figures for Westchester are like? :P

[jarrod]

Wolfsbane's from an entirely different culture, one of the few Scottish heroines that I know about...and for all that, she's just lumped in with the white crowd. Yeesh.
Her natural hair shape/texture is also racially divergent thanks to her mutation. Plus, when she actively uses her mutation, it's impossible to tell her race.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Her natural hair shape/texture is also racially divergent thanks to her mutation. Plus, when she actively uses her mutation, it's impossible to tell her race.

What, there are no red heads in all of Scotland?

I'll agree that there needs to be more minority representation in X-Men across the board, but some emphasize ought to be given to cultural diversity as well.

[CJ Lentze]

Storm has STRAIGHT, light-hued hair, AND blue eyes. Those sound like caucasian pysical traits to me, jarrod. (But I still want you to be my main squeeze! ;) )

Some readers don't care that much about the race of comic book characters, other readers do. The race debate has been a source of chagrin these past few weeks, but it shouldn't turn people off on the subject.

It's not irrational to want to see more recognisably black characters in the X-Books. X-Men is supposed to be about racial equality among other things, so a group that's also ethnically diverse reflecting REALITY shouldn't be too much to ask.

Race doesn't matter? A person's ethnicity is part of their background. Telling someone 'I don't care about your race', would be an insult. I personally care less about a character's race than about, say, their personality traits, but Jubilee being chinese, Warren being white, Darwin being black/latino are part of who they are, and therefore mean something to me.

The point Magneto X raised was that people do not RECOGNISE Darwin as being black or latino. They see him and think he's white. I hadn't guessed Darwin was part Latino/part black until I read it on Wikipedia (and then verified it elsewhere, yes...). But Darwin appears throughout a year-long arc of Uncanny X-Men, and nobody even mentions that he's black/latino. And it's not exactly easy to guess. Heck, they don't even call him by his name 'Armando Muñoz', even though Warpath and Havok get called 'James' and 'Alex' a lot.

Oh, and Brian M, by your percentages, Professor X should have been able to find at least one or two young black mutants to ask him to join the X-Men.

Magneto X, here is an older discussion about Darwin's powers you can read. I hope this thread can return to talking about Darwin's powers as well.

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=184564

[Pach!]

Storm has STRAIGHT, light-hued hair, AND blue eyes. Those sound like caucasian pysical traits to me, jarrod. (But I still want you to be my main squeeze! ;) )

Some readers don't care that much about the race of comic book characters, other readers do. The race debate has been a source of chagrin these past few weeks, but it shouldn't turn people off on the subject.

It's not irrational to want to see more recognisably black characters in the X-Books. X-Men is supposed to be about racial equality among other things, so a group that's also ethnically diverse reflecting REALITY shouldn't be too much to ask.

Race doesn't matter? A person's ethnicity is part of their background. Telling someone 'I don't care about your race', would be an insult. I personally care less about a character's race than about, say, their personality traits, but Jubilee being chinese, Warren being white, Darwin being black/latino are part of who they are, and therefore mean something to me.

The point Magneto X raised was that people do not RECOGNISE Darwin as being black or latino. They see him and think he's white. I hadn't guessed Darwin was part Latino/part black until I read it on Wikipedia (and then verified it elsewhere, yes...). But Darwin appears throughout a year-long arc of Uncanny X-Men, and nobody even mentions that he's black/latino. And it's not exactly easy to guess. Heck, they don't even call him by his name 'Armando Muñoz', even though Warpath and Havok get called 'James' and 'Alex' a lot.

Oh, and Brian M, by your percentages, Professor X should have been able to find at least one or two young black mutants to ask him to join the X-Men.

Magneto X, here is an older discussion about Darwin's powers you can read. I hope this thread can return to talking about Darwin's powers as well.

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=184564
Regardless of her white hair and blue eyes, you can ask anyone on the street what ethnicity Storm is and they will say black.

I think before more black characters we should get OTHER minorities. Black people already have Storm, Bishop, Nezhno, Bling! and David in the X-books. What do muslims get? Buddhists? Hispanics?

Latinos can be white by the way.

[Brian M.]

Storm has STRAIGHT, light-hued hair, AND blue eyes. Those sound like caucasian pysical traits to me, jarrod. (But I still want you to be my main squeeze! ;) )

Some readers don't care that much about the race of comic book characters, other readers do. The race debate has been a source of chagrin these past few weeks, but it shouldn't turn people off on the subject.

It's not irrational to want to see more recognisably black characters in the X-Books. X-Men is supposed to be about racial equality among other things, so a group that's also ethnically diverse reflecting REALITY shouldn't be too much to ask.

Race doesn't matter? A person's ethnicity is part of their background. Telling someone 'I don't care about your race', would be an insult. I personally care less about a character's race than about, say, their personality traits, but Jubilee being chinese, Warren being white, Darwin being black/latino are part of who they are, and therefore mean something to me.

The point Magneto X raised was that people do not RECOGNISE Darwin as being black or latino. They see him and think he's white. I hadn't guessed Darwin was part Latino/part black until I read it on Wikipedia (and then verified it elsewhere, yes...). But Darwin appears throughout a year-long arc of Uncanny X-Men, and nobody even mentions that he's black/latino. And it's not exactly easy to guess. Heck, they don't even call him by his name 'Armando Muñoz', even though Warpath and Havok get called 'James' and 'Alex' a lot.

Oh, and Brian M, by your percentages, Professor X should have been able to find at least one or two young black mutants to ask him to join the X-Men.
Magneto X, here is an older discussion about Darwin's powers you can read. I hope this thread can return to talking about Darwin's powers as well.

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=184564

Not according to that law.

Also I don't see how telling someone you don't care about their race is an insult. I don't care about your race or your sexual orientation. I'm not who I am b/c I'm white. I'm not who I am b/c I'm straight. You start judging people based on race it opens a lot of shitty doors.

[Talon X]

Whoever thought Darwin would ever cause any of this??

[ExodusCloak]

He is supposed to have "reactive adaptation." That should be different than informed "proactive adapatation." And it shouldn't be a method of giving Darwin whatever power the writer wants to portray instead of the obvious physical response to the danger he is in. Once that is accepted, nobody will worry about Darwin: not only will he be immortal, he'll adapt any power (however obscure) needed to defeat anyone he fights.


It's both reactive and proactive since he can force his evolutions. Remember in Deadly Genesis #6 where he forced himself to evolve sharp skin in order to cut the X-Men V1 free when he wasn't in any danger? So Gage actually did portray his power properly. The only thing I found odd is that he didn't force evolve a defence against the Hulks strength...all the Hulk has is strength it would be the most logical choice.

BTW Since when is or ever was Apocalypse black?

[jarrod]

What, there are no red heads in all of Scotland?
Not who's hair is similar in feel to wire and can't grow past 2 inches. Which is why I said texture/shape. ;)


BTW Since when is or ever was Apocalypse black?
Well, he's nubian. He looked his race too (barring the lips) until he was augmented by Celestial technology.

[worstblogever]

Not who's hair is similar in feel to wire and can't grow past 2 inches. Which is why I said texture/shape. ;)



Well, he's nubian. He looked his race too (barring the lips) until he was augmented by Celestial technology.

What's a Nubian? (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

[CJ Lentze]

Regardless of her white hair and blue eyes, you can ask anyone on the street what ethnicity Storm is and they will say black.

I think before more black characters we should get OTHER minorities. Black people already have Storm, Bishop, Nezhno, Bling! and David in the X-books. What do muslims get? Buddhists? Hispanics?

Latinos can be white by the way.

I completely agree with you.

Not according to that law.

Also I don't see how telling someone you don't care about their race is an insult. I don't care about your race or your sexual orientation. I'm not who I am b/c I'm white. I'm not who I am b/c I'm straight. You start judging people based on race it opens a lot of shitty doors.

Sorry, let me clarify this. It's the phrasing that bothers me, and (and I'm not saying you say it): 'I don't CARE about your race'. No. You could be interested in someone's ethnic background. Or not.

I agree with you that race is a minor factor -a NON-factor, probably- when it comes to judging people, but it's not a question of NOT CARING.

And I disagree on one other point. You are what you are because of EVERYTHING you are. That includes race and sexual preference. When people start pinning unrelated traits on a race or sexuality, creating intentionally harmful clichés, THEN it gets scary.

[worstblogever]

If Leech can depower anything within the same room, and Darwin's power allows him to adapt and survive stimuli around him... whose power would work?

(This might not be as epic a debate as "What happens when the Juggernaut charges the Blob?)

[The Cool Thatguy]

Not who's hair is similar in feel to wire and can't grow past 2 inches. Which is why I said texture/shape. ;)

Ah, okay. Though in fairness, that was more for the purposes of angst than anything else. They've since dropped it...and then got back to it, bastards.

[ExodusCloak]

If Leech can depower anything within the same room, and Darwin's power allows him to adapt and survive stimuli around him... whose power would work?

(This might not be as epic a debate as "What happens when the Juggernaut charges the Blob?)

Leech generates an energy dampening field that nullifies powers...Darwins powerset on paper should be able to allow him to evolve past that energy. However the Shiar were able to nullify his power in the RAFOTSE Arc with a collar...so Leech's power will probably work on him.

Well, he's nubian. He looked his race too (barring the lips) until he was augmented by Celestial technology.

That makes more sense. Much appreciated.

[jarrod]

What's a Nubian? (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)
The indigenous people of Egypt and Northern Sudan iirc... their features are more mixed between black and arab. [/DDM]

[jarrod]

Ah, okay. Though in fairness, that was more for the purposes of angst than anything else. They've since dropped it...and then got back to it, bastards.

Yah... I miss long haired Rahne. :/

[worstblogever]

The indigenous people of Egypt and Northern Sudan iirc... their features are more mixed between black and arab. [/DDM]

I know... I was quoting Jason Lee's character Banky in Chasing Amy... it's even worth it when Hooper walks up to him and says... "What's a Nubian? Sh*t, B*tch, you almost made me laugh."

I've had this scene:
http://blackrage1.ytmnd.com/

on the brain since every thread keeps turning into a similar discussion the past two days.

But thanks for being helpful, jarrod. People will sing songs about you someday. ;)

[The Cool Thatguy]

Yah... I miss long haired Rahne. :/

I just miss Rahne having character focus period.

*shudders at the thought of the upcoming X-Factor*

[jarrod]

I know... I was quoting Jason Lee's character Banky in Chasing Amy... it's even worth it when Hooper walks up to him and says... "What's a Nubian? Sh*t, B*tch, you almost made me laugh."

I've had this scene:

http://blackrage1.ytmnd.com/

on the brain since every thread keeps turning into a similar discussion the past two days.

But thanks for being helpful, jarrod. People will sing songs about you someday. ;)
I, um... know too. Hence the [/DDM]. :P


We can still sing songs though! <3 <3

[jarrod]

I just miss Rahne having character focus period.

*shudders at the thought of the upcoming X-Factor*
The X-Force promos make me submissively pee a little every time I look at 'em... and not in a good way. :(

[protogarrett]

If Darwin and Lifegaurd had a baby... it would be unstoppable.
Damn.

[The Cool Thatguy]

If writers made some rules for Darwin's powers, it'd be alot easier for writers to handle, IMO.

If they just made his powers reactive and one defense at a time, I don't think he'd be in the limbo that he's in now (has there been one word about where he's hiding?).

[worstblogever]

If Darwin and Lifegaurd had a baby... it would be unstoppable.
Damn.

Unstoppably convoluted, you mean.

[Magneto X]

It's not irrational to want to see more recognisably black characters in the X-Books. ... reflecting REALITY shouldn't be too much to ask.

Thank you, thank you, my kind friend.

Unstoppably convoluted, you mean.

Yeah. I guess that "Darwin, make yourself sharp so we can cut these vines" comment does show that Darwin's controlled changes have been a problem since his creation. :( They need to be retconned or he'll be so problematic he'll disappear (doesn't it seem like he already has? Like the comicbook god saw him use "gamma-siphoning-fingers" and said "That's it! Blink!"). We don't need another Lifeguard. We don't need another Cassandra "I can access any power that is part of the potential of the mutant genome" Nova. Ew.

Save Darwin Now!

[worstblogever]

Yeah. I guess that "Darwin, make yourself sharp so we can cut these vines" comment does show that Darwin's controlled changes have been a problem since his creation. :( They need to be retconned or he'll be so problematic he'll disappear (doesn't it seem like he already has? Like the comicbook god saw him use "gamma-siphoning-fingers" and said "That's it! Blink!"). We don't need another Lifeguard. We don't need another Cassandra "I can access any power that is part of the potential of the mutant genome" Nova. Ew.

Save Darwin Now!
But a baby with Lifeguard would mean it would be the daughter of an Austrailian crime boss, and yet somehow also have at least a quarter Shi'ar lineage. Con-vo-lut-ed times infinity. Is Darwin even trained to the extent of the New X-Men, yet? His training to go to Krakoa was obviously not enough.

[Pro]

Like the comicbook god saw him use "gamma-siphoning-fingers" and said "That's it! Blink!").

Darwin:"The best way not to get hurt is to not exist!". Blink!

I hope he blinks his way into the pages of x-factor ..

[Affinity]

I'd be interested to see him interact with X-Factor but not JOIN it. He'd be so out of place and awkward. PAD would obvs rock it but I don't know, it just seems so out of nowhere.

[sinjection]

Not so fast. A dude that albino is soon dying of skin cancer unless he stays in the shade! And wouldn't that be a pathetic end?

And an undeserving end as well, M-X.

"He survived outerspace and the Hulk. But the only adaptation his power couldn't comprehend was the need for pigment against harmful UV rays! Why!"


Why? The same bad writing every black mutant - male or female - has been cursed with since their creation. "Black Mutant's Burden."

[Jackob]

i think that he is a cool new character, but the powers are too undefined, and i hate that. i like his back story about his mom disowning him and all but i like limits.

and the skin thing, i think that is the kind of thing that will change with who colors him, he can easly get darker again.
i hope he does, curently he looks like one of the Grey space aliens.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greys

[Blade X]

Well, there you go. That seems to be the way the x-writers like it. Black mutants who don't look black and don't associate with other blacks seems to be the working formula.

I suspect that once more fans begin to realize that Darwin is the beautiful blending of black and Puerto Rican under that grotesque chalk-white exterior, his days as a living mutant will be numbered.

I agree.

I said it before, and I'll say it again. Ever since Quesada became EIC, Marvel has been either killing off,maiming/crippling,depowering,or tossing in limbo MANY of their non white minority characters, especially non white mutant characters.

That being said, I think Darwin will most likely be safe for a while since he was created by Bru, who is currently one of Marvels golden boys.

[Blade X]

I loved Darwin's addition. Not only did the writers introduce a character of color, they had him join the team on a permanent basis, they retconed him (and a Danish character and a Hong Kong native) into the past, making the X-Men more diverse retroactively, and they gave him a very cool power, impressive and non-stereotypical.

Reading WWH v. X-Men it occured to me that Darwin's powers were being portrayed in a way that made me think "Darwin's power shouldn't work like that."

His power still isn't stereotypical, and it certainly isn't weak. In fact, it may become so vast that writers stop wanting to use him because he could be a walking deus ex machina.

This is my second beef with how Darwin, a potential gold mine of a character, is being portrayed. (My first is that we finally get a promising character of color and, for some unknown reason, his black and latino ancestry is suddenly being obscured by how his mutation is affecting his ethnic looks (in the manner of Storm, Nekra and Apocalypse). Being drawn uber-pale seems anti-darwinian, if anything, to me, since dark skin provides better protection against the increasing danger of ultra-violet rays than pale complexion! What, were there too many brown X-Men? Anyway ... now it's his powers.

It's not the teleportation, although I have some issue with that.
It was when he received the ability to absorb gamma radiation.
Did that strike anyone else as a bit odd?




Darwin seems to be suffering from the same problem as other characters with similar powers who came out before him like Lifeguard,Random,and Shane Gooseman (from the 80's cartoon ADVENTURES OF THE GALAXY RANGERS). Out of all of the characters I listed above, Shane (while his powers are still a deux ex mechina) has limits to his powers since he has to physically activate them by touching his badge after he is injured or in danger of being injured. So instead of making Darwin powers automatically reactive, his powers should only become active by his mental commands.

[Faded]

I liked the Deadly Genesis kids, but I don't like any of their powers.

Well, I like Petra's, but she just seems a little to similar to Terra.

Darwin in particular had a really nice backstory, but I don't really like his physical mutation nor his mutant abilities--they just seem like they could be easily overextended--like in WWH:X.

I think it does suck that there are such few minorities in the X-Men and I really don't believe there's a rational explanation as to why. I don't have a problem with the X-writers being white, but I think when it comes to creating new characters there should be a heavy hand in forcing them to mix it up more.

And its another reason why M-Day sucks.

[Blade X]

As for his ethnicity, I remember him being black or puerto rican or whatever, and then changing but I didn't think it was too much of a big deal. I think they're are plenty of black heroes and it bothers me when people complain about that. Quit focusing on skin color. It's just not important.

I disagree. Just because skin color is not important to you, does not mean it's not important to others.

When you say there are "plenty of black heroes", please define "plenty" for me and please tell me how many of those black heroes are currently not in limbo, dead,crippled,or depowered.

[Blade X]

OR, since Marvel identified the racial-skewing as a problem in the 1960s, they could have just made a proportional number of new characters be people of color. And then, over the last fifty years, the problem would have been solved. Instead they create one character of color for every twenty or thirty white ones and continue to exacerbate the skew they've understood for over fifty years now.

How about having a reasonable share of new characters be from different racial backgrounds?

You know: realism.





I agree with everything you said. I would also like to add that Marvel should also stop crippling,killing,depowering,and tossing in limbo many of their non-white minority characters.

[Brian M.]

I agree with everything you said. I would also like to add that Marvel should also stop crippling,killing,depowering,and tossing in limbo many of their non-white minority characters.

So your asking for special treatment b/c of race?

[The Cool Thatguy]

I agree with everything you said. I would also like to add that Marvel should also stop crippling,killing,depowering,and tossing in limbo many of their non-white minority characters.

Agreed. I dunno why only WASPS can depict a fictional minority.

But that said, Darwin's look is meant to reflect his powers. Regardless of his ethnic background, it compliments his character best to look alien-ish. Just wish he didn't turn invisible all of a sudden...

[Blade X]

Throwing a fake number out here, but it's not valid b/c it'll go w/ the point I'm trying to make. If 80% of your readership is white males, should not 80% of the cast be white males? If it's this is a business and not a politically correct circus, then does that not make sense?

Well by using your logic then most rappers should be white since the over whelming majority of people who purchase rap music are white. I'm sick and tired of this lame excuse that most of the characters should be white because most of the readers are white.

Throwing your admittedly fake number aside, I would like to point out that based SOLELY on my personal experience alone, I can tell you that I know a LOT of non white minority comic book readers. At least half, if not MOST, of the customers at the comic book store I work at are mostly minorities (black,Asian, Latino,and Arabs). The owner of our store is Asian,the manager is black,and I'm black. And from what I've heard from others, there are a LOT of minority readers in the tri state area.

[Brian M.]

Well by using your logic then most rappers should be white since the over whelming majority of people who purchase rap music are white. I'm sick and tired of this lame excuse that most of the characters should be white because most of the readers are white.

Throwing your admittedly fake number aside, I would like to point out that based SOLELY on my personal experience alone, I can tell you that I know a LOT of non white minority comic book readers. At least half, if not MOST, of the customers at the comic book store I work at are mostly minorities (black,Asian, Latino,and Arabs). The owner of our store is Asian,the manager is black,and I'm black. And from what I've heard from others, there are a LOT of minority readers in the tri state area.

That's nice.

[Blade X]

A lot of those are diversity. Before Shadowcat how many jewish mutants did we have?

Magneto (retcon)
Quicksilver (retcon)
Scarlet Witch (retcon)

[Brian M.]

Magneto (retcon)
Quicksilver (retcon)
Scarlet Witch (retcon)

So becuase it's retcon'd it's not true?

[Joe Acro]

Magneto (retcon)
Quicksilver (retcon)
Scarlet Witch (retcon)
Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch aren't Jewish. They weren't raised as such.

And was Magneto Jewish before Shadowcat arrived? I don't recall.

[Brian M.]

I didn't realize how many angry angry posters there were around here, trying to enact social change through comic books.

[Blade X]

So your asking for special treatment b/c of race?

In this case, yes I am asking for special treatment based on race.

Let me put it to you this way. Take a 100 characters. Now out of those 100 characters, 20 of them are black and 80 of them are white. Now kill off 10 of the black characters and kill off 10 of the white characters. So now we have 80 characters left, 70 of them are white and 10 of them are black. Half of the black characters are dead and only 10% of the white characters are dead. How the hell is that fair? In other words, if the number of black characters are SMALL to begin with, then why decrease that small number even further.

[Blade X]

So becuase it's retcon'd it's not true?

Which was my point.

[Jackob]

In this case, yes I am asking for special treatment based on race.

Let me put it to you this way. Take a 100 characters. Now out of those 100 characters, 20 of them are black and 80 of them are white. Now kill off 10 of the black characters and kill off 10 of the white characters. So now we have 80 characters left, 70 of them are white and 10 of them are black. Half of the black characters are dead and only 10% of the white characters are dead. How the hell is that fair? In other words, if the number of black characters are SMALL to begin with, then why decrease that small number even further.

it is actualy 12.5% of whites that would be dead.

[Blade X]

Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch aren't Jewish. They weren't raised as such.

And was Magneto Jewish before Shadowcat arrived? I don't recall.

Thanks to the retcon, they were BORN Jewish.

And no, Magneto was not Jewish before kitty appeared.

[Joe Acro]

Thanks to the retcon, they were BORN Jewish.

And no, Magneto was not Jewish before kitty appeared.
No one is born with a certain religion. They have to be raised in that religion. And since those two were adopted into, as far as we know, a non-Jewish household.

And if the whole thing is contingent on retcons, that shouldn't devalue Shadowcat's diversity.

[Jackob]

No one is born with a certain religion. They have to be raised in that religion. And since those two were adopted into, as far as we know, a non-Jewish household.

And if the whole thing is contingent on retcons, that shouldn't devalue Shadowcat's diversity.

they are gypsys

[Blade X]

That data's from the 2005 census, so slightly out of date. Even so, the figure is 45% when considering all white lineages.

Anyway, it's moot as the X-Men aren't actually stationed in NYC... but, I wonder what the figures for Westchester are like? :P

I'm from Westchester, and I can tell you that there are a LOT of blacks and Latinos out here. There's also quite a few Asians out here as well. There are many towns out here in Westchester that are predominantly black and/or Latino.

[Pach!]

Like I said previously, I'm all for more minorities but let's start with the ones that have no representation, then the ones that have little representation, etc.

Storm, Bishop, David, Nezhno, Bling! as opposed to Rictor for hispanics. Dust for muslims, etc.

If we're going to fix a problem lets start where fixing is really needed.

[Blade X]

Darwin:"The best way not to get hurt is to not exist!". Blink!

I hope he blinks his way into the pages of x-factor ..

I rather see Random (who has similar powers to Darwin and Lifeguard) join X-FACTOR instead of Darwin. After all, PAD created him and he came out years before both Lifeguard and Darwin.

[Faded]

Like I said previously, I'm all for more minorities but let's start with the ones that have no representation, then the ones that have little representation, etc.

Storm, Bishop, David, Nezhno, Bling! as opposed to Rictor for hispanics. Dust for muslims, etc.

If we're going to fix a problem lets start where fixing is really needed.

Not even that...just some good minority mutants.

I mean we can multiply fictional characters like non-fictional syphilis, but if they're all going to be Catiana I'd rather they not waste the effort.

[Blade X]

Like I said previously, I'm all for more minorities but let's start with the ones that have no representation, then the ones that have little representation, etc.

Storm, Bishop, David, Nezhno, Bling! as opposed to Rictor for hispanics. Dust for muslims, etc.

If we're going to fix a problem lets start where fixing is really needed.

Bishop has been stupidly retconed into being an Australian Aborigine.

David is depowered.

Bling is a crappy and stereotypical black character.

As for Latino/hispanic characters besides Rictor (depowered), there's Cecillia Reyes (MIA, might be dead if the editors have their way),Darwin,Sunspot (limbo and he speaks Portugeze),El Aquilo (might be depowered and is currently in limbo, he is also white),and Tag (depowered and dead).

Besides Dust, the only other Muslim Arab characters I can think of are Monet, her younger twin sisters,Emplate (limbo),and Jetstream (who is dead).

[Pach!]

I don't get your point. All those hispanic characters you named are gone.

And Bishop is still black right? Or are you talking about African characters?

[EnDwiGast]

Maybe we should just relaunch the Marvel U and redo all the characters. Account for every possible race and color and religion and sexual orientation. That way for people who only see people as a skin color it'll be fair. The Original 5 X-Men can be relaunched.

Professor Xavier: An asian woman confined to a wheel chair who's thinking of becoming a man.
Cyclops: An eskimo gay man who is also Jewish.
Jean Grey: A proud latino woman who also has a love of greek women.
Angel: A black man who wants nothing to do but beat up his white teammates but still maintains good christian values.
Iceman: A spoiled rich white boy who is of buddist decent.
Beast: A big hairy burley Indian man who likes to dress up in women's clothes.

How about variant editions? Instead of variant covers - you can have versions of a comic for each ethnicity.

[Brian M.]

How about variant editions? Instead of variant covers - you can have versions of a comic for each ethnicity.

If you wanna pay $10 for a comic, sure.

[Jackob]

Maybe we should just relaunch the Marvel U and redo all the characters. Account for every possible race and color and religion and sexual orientation. That way for people who only see people as a skin color it'll be fair. The Original 5 X-Men can be relaunched.

Professor Xavier: An asian woman confined to a wheel chair who's thinking of becoming a man.
Cyclops: An eskimo gay man who is also Jewish.
Jean Grey: A proud latino woman who also has a love of greek women.
Angel: A black man who wants nothing to do but beat up his white teammates but still maintains good christian values.
Iceman: A spoiled rich white boy who is of buddist decent.
Beast: A big hairy burley Indian man who likes to dress up in women's clothes.

just like the lupine avengers, marvel will steal this from you to brian

[Brian M.]

just like the lupine avengers, marvel will steal this from you to brian

I better get my special thanks from them or there will be trouble.

If only they'd listen to me on my Uncanny X-Men #500 idea.

[Faded]

I don't get your point. All those hispanic characters you named are gone.

There's also Risque...

Maybe we should just relaunch the Marvel U and redo all the characters. Account for every possible race and color and religion and sexual orientation. That way for people who only see people as a skin color it'll be fair. The Original 5 X-Men can be relaunched.

Professor Xavier: An asian woman confined to a wheel chair who's thinking of becoming a man.
Cyclops: An eskimo gay man who is also Jewish.
Jean Grey: A proud latino woman who also has a love of greek women.
Angel: A black man who wants nothing to do but beat up his white teammates but still maintains good christian values.
Iceman: A spoiled rich white boy who is of buddist decent.
Beast: A big hairy burley Indian man who likes to dress up in women's clothes.

LOL I don't think you can be of Buddhist descent.

I don't know about other people, but while they're not just a skin color/sexual orientation its important to me as well.

There still is a lot of people who judge/exclude people based on what color they are and who they love--so this feels like just another exclusion to a world with so many characters yet with so few minorities represented.

[Blade X]

I don't get your point. All those hispanic characters you named are gone.

And Bishop is still black right? Or are you talking about African characters?

My point was that the Latino/Hispanic characters are also being treated in the same manner as the black characters.

I'm talking about character's of modern African descent. Aborigine's, despite being dark skin are NOT African or descended from modern day Africans.

[Pro]

I don't think i've ever seen a frisian superhero .. we're a tiny minority now subsumed in the vast kingdom of Holland but once we ruled the northwest coasts of europe. I demand a frisian hero!

[Flâneur]

I don't think i've ever seen a frisian superhero .. we're a tiny minority now subsumed in the vast kingdom of Holland but once we ruled the northwest coasts of europe. I demand a frisian hero!

My opa worked in Friesland as a doctor! I think there aren't enough Opas from the Nederlands in the MU. I DEMAND EQUITY!!

[Karl H]

In this case, yes I am asking for special treatment based on race.


So you're looking for what, quotas?

Cos that's worked SO well in Zimbabwe and South Africa hasn't it.

[Pro]

I'm talking about character's of modern African descent. Aborigine's, despite being dark skin are NOT African or descended from modern day Africans.

So how black do you have to be to be part of the club? Aboriginals apparently don't count, indians probably neither since they're called asian by most. What about darkskinned arabs? Egyptians black? Sure they're african but they're far from black, more like lightly tanned. What about srilankan, they're pretty dark. What about surinamers of indian-african descend, can they join up? And if it is the continent of africa can white africans join up since you mention africans of modern african descend? How many generations ago do you have to have black ancestors to claim the price? What are the parameters exactly?

[Gene M.]

I'd like an Italian superhero that wasn't some meatball stereotype. Paulie Provanzano my ass.

Edit: Never mind. I forgot that we have the Punisher, AKA the best character ever, AKA Italians FTW!

[Pro]

My opa worked in Friesland as a doctor! I think there aren't enough Opas from the Nederlands in the MU. I DEMAND EQUITY!!

Wooden shoes for everyone!

[Pro]

My point was that the Latino/Hispanic characters are also being treated in the same manner as the black characters.

So are irish. How many irish characters are there .. Syrin, Black tom and Banshee and they killed off Banshee, those irish hating bastards!

[Karl H]

they are gypsys

I actually come from Spanish Romany roots and you don't hear me banging on about the lack of Spanish Romany superheroes.

I mean if there's a pair of poster children for the disfunctional it's Wanda and Pietro but I don't bang on about it all the time.

Gypsy Power!!!!!

[Flâneur]

I'm talking about character's of modern African descent. Aborigine's, despite being dark skin are NOT African or descended from modern day Africans.
You have no idea how offensive it is to say Indigenous Australians aren't black enough. When you consider that the Indigenous Australians have probably had the shortest straw out of any race it is not respectful to try to take that part of their identity away as well.

Refer to it in any other way that you want but please don't do that, I know most people on this board won't appreciate that since they don't live in Australia so it's probably not malicious but please don't. Just leave the black term out of the discussion if you can't use it respectfully.

[Karl H]

You have no idea how offensive it is to say Indigenous Australians aren't black enough. When you consider that the Indigenous Australians have probably had the shortest straw out of any race it is not respectful to try to take that part of their identity away as well.

Refer to it in any other way that you want but please don't do that, I know most people on this board won't appreciate that since they don't live in Australia so it's probably not malicious but please don't. Just leave the black term out of the discussion if you can't use it respectfully.

No I appreciate that. One of my best mates when I lived in London was 1/2 Aborigine and he had from what I can make out the toughest childhood of anyone I know.

[worstblogever]

You have no idea how offensive it is to say Indigenous Australians aren't black enough. When you consider that the Indigenous Australians have probably had the shortest straw out of any race it is not respectful to try to take that part of their identity away as well.

Refer to it in any other way that you want but please don't do that, I know most people on this board won't appreciate that since they don't live in Australia so it's probably not malicious but please don't. Just leave the black term out of the discussion if you can't use it respectfully.

Wasn't it still legal for most Aussies to kill Indigenous Austrailians up until like 1970-something? That's about as bad a continued plight as I've heard.

[worstblogever]

Darwin needs a chip on his shoulder... "Y'all are just hatin' on me because I'm Dutch." Then he would adapt and become immune to the Dutch prejudice that comes from Austin Powers' dad.

[Scanner]

I would rather see Lifeguard back (and Scanner of course!)

[Kyle R]

You have no idea how offensive it is to say Indigenous Australians aren't black enough. When you consider that the Indigenous Australians have probably had the shortest straw out of any race it is not respectful to try to take that part of their identity away as well.

Refer to it in any other way that you want but please don't do that, I know most people on this board won't appreciate that since they don't live in Australia so it's probably not malicious but please don't. Just leave the black term out of the discussion if you can't use it respectfully.
Obviously I can't speak for Blade, but I really don't think he ment that in a disrespectful way.

The fact of the matter is that genetically, no two peoples are more dissimilar than indigenous Australians--and other Pacific Islanders--and modern Africans. Indigenous Australians have much more in common with neighboring Asians from a genetic standpoint, where as modern Africans are genetically closer to Europeans.

Of course, if you go back far enough, we're all from Africa originally.

Speaking of genetics, Chris Claremont has claimed that the reason for Storm's features--dark pigmantation, blue eyes, white hair, etc.--is that he wanted her to have an entire set of genetically dominent traits. Which just goes to show how little Chris Claremont understands about Mendellan inheritance, as fair hair and blue eyes are both recessive, not dominent.

[Flâneur]

Wasn't it still legal for most Aussies to kill Indigenous Austrailians up until like 1970-something? That's about as bad a continued plight as I've heard.
From the 1800s till the 1930s there were continual massacres (especially in Tasmania) taking place in the Indigenous people and later on while it wasn't legal for someone to kill an Indigenous Australian it wouldn't be overly contested. For a long while Indigenous persons weren't permitted to testify in their trials either (they were thought too inhuman to swear to tell the truth) so it was next to impossible to make a case.

Then there's the stolen generation (I think that was in the 70s and ended in the 80s) where the children were all stolen and the government attempted to 'breed out the black', the result was that a whole bunch of indigenous peoples simply ended up as servants and sex toys for their white families.

Now Indigenous people make up less than 2% of the Australian population and approx. 80% of those live in ghettos in the city. As a whole they are about 10% in number of what they were before the British landed (and look at how much the population of the rest of the world has expanded ...). Now an indigenous person can testify in court and vote but most have no access to other rights - they aren't just looked down upon by the system or given the short end of the stick ... they're basically excluded from the benefits of the system to a degree that even illegal immigrants aren't.


Obviously I can't speak for Blade, but I really don't think he ment that in a disrespectful way.

The fact of the matter is that genetically, no two races are more dissimilar than indigenous Australians--and other Pacific Islanders--and modern Africans. Indigenous Australians have much more in common with neighboring Asians from a genetic standpoint, where as modern Africans are genetically closer to Europeans.

Of course, if you go back far enough, we're all from Africa originally.
I'm willing to accept that it was out of ignorance and not malice but there's no excuse for ignorance just because something is happening on another continent.

And I'm aware that Indigenous Australians are separate genetically but I'd hope that we'd all have moved on from the very colonial notion of classing people genetically/anthropologically. I know you aren't doing that but there is a certain someone (not Blade) who I don't want to start running with what you are saying.

[Kyle R]

And I'm aware that Indigenous Australians are separate genetically but I'd hope that we'd all have moved on from the very colonial notion of classing people genetically/anthropologically.
One would hope we're not judging entire peoples by their genetics. That's ridiculous. Humans share somewhere in the vicinity of a fifty per-cent genetic similarity to the common banana.

I think that when you look at things from that perspective, the concept of race seems horribly trivial. We're all people, we all share the same planet, and it would be in our best intrest to try and make it the best planet for everyone. Unfortunetely selfishness and ignorance seem to be far more prominent. But maybe I'm just an idealist.

[Flâneur]

One would hope we're not judging entire peoples by their genetics. That's ridiculous. Humans share somewhere in the vicinity of a fifty per-cent genetic similarity to the common banana.

I think that when you look at things from that perspective, the concept of race seems horribly trivial. We're all people, we all share the same planet, and it would be in our best intrest to try and make it the best planet for everyone. Unfortunetely selfishness and ignorance seem to be far more prominent. But maybe I'm just an idealist.

Definitely, to quote Meowth from the pokemon movie:

'Instead of looking at what's different, why can't we look at what's the same?'

... I hate myself for being able to quote from pokemon. lol

But yes, it's not just idealistic but practical - we are, all of us, in on this together and the world can't move forward until we all learn to live with one another.

[Kyle R]

Sorry, dude, but I don't know if I can learn to live with someone who quotes pokemon....

[TheBest246]

I love coming to CBR these days, because you know i come to the comic book section to talk about how different ethnic groups are not being portrayed correctly the in MU! :confused:

the thread was started about darwins power not his skin colour, i think brian said before about race and skin colour not making a person who he/she is and i totally agree! darwins skin colour dont make him any less cool an i dont think marvel thought oh dear god what have we done we have created a cool powered black guy! change him white now!!!
just enjoy the great character that he is!!

Anyways who was talking about Scottish redheads before? I had sex with one not so long ago, was awesome

[worstblogever]

Sorry, dude, but I don't know if I can learn to live with someone who quotes pokemon....

I see. You're an anti-Pokemite. :D

[Flâneur]

Sorry, dude, but I don't know if I can learn to live with someone who quotes pokemon....

I'll form a Pokemyn's collective and lobby against you!

[Magneto X]

I'm willing to accept that it was out of ignorance and not malice but there's no excuse for ignorance just because something is happening on another continent.

I'm confused. What's ignorant about not counting indigenous Australians as Pan African?
Jews, Gypsies and homosexuales were murdered during the Nazi holocaust, and Native Americans were give small pox blankets, etc. and many people may have suffered just as much as many other people, but what does that have to do with referring, or not referring, to them as black?

[tipo4thesoul]

why are you so off topic?
Mendelian inheritance? Come on?
What next, test crosses? Recombination? God forbid we analyze the yeast he uses to make his bread or something.

[MarvelGirlBoy]

On topic and off, my 2 cents: I agree that Darwin has so much potential, but that writers are in danger of making him unwieldy and unusable before he's even had a chance to shine. X-writers these days really seem to just want to stretch mutants' powers as far as they can go (think Wolverine's healing factor and Hellion's telekinesis surge) without thinking in the long run how it can kill a character. I blame Phoenix-replication-complex.

I also think Magneto X is right - I certainly wasn't aware that Darwin was anything other than white American, having not read his introduction - and I think that it is sad that writers continue not to write black characters whose appearance is unchanged, when so many other, white X-Men have very ordinary natural forms. I thought Cecelia Reyes and Maggott were very interesting and had a lot of potential, and filled that gaping lack of reality-reflection - and their departures and deaths smacked of jumping the boat before its even set sale for sales jumps. Had they been developed more, they could have been future comic-sellers on their own. X-Men is not just American - they have, since Giant-Size, made a point of being diverse and multi-ethnic, even global (X-Corps), so really, they should commit to this and not show any physically non-white character as interchangeable in some respect with white characters. Nor does this commitment have to be gimmicky - done right, it can only add to the franchise and lay the groundwork for a more realistic status quo.

I think Darwin would be a good character to focus some more backstory on when he becomes part of one of the new X-teams.

[Pro]

Maggott were very interesting and had a lot of potential, and filled that gaping lack of reality-reflection

Maggot turned blue when he was using his full power :). But i agree, he was an interesting addition, his power deviating from the normal heightened abilties or psychic powers we see so often used as mutations. I can still see him come back if a writer would really want to use him. One of his worms survived i think which could be the key to bringing him back, plus with a name like Maggot you almost expect the guy to come crawling back from the grave.

X-Men is not just American

While the characters may not be the comic itself is very americano-centric. I had some hope X-corps would split off as a separate book focussed more on international teams but alas. It would have been interesting to have a book with a rotating cast, storyarcs focussing on one x-corps location in one story and another location the next and showing how mutants live outside america and what problems they face.

I think Darwin would be a good character to focus some more backstory on when he becomes part of one of the new X-teams.

Hopefully he won't be banished to limbo. Him teleporting away in WWH and then not being mentnioned again makes me fear we won't see him in a while. I hope i'll be proven wrong and he'll pop up soon.

[Petes Pants]

Darwin will be back in time for X-Men: Even Deadlier Genesis, where Brubaker will reveal that Sway and Petra never died, but have been living in Guadalajara, making and selling friendship bracelets and getting to know each others' bodies.

[bluedmighty]

I LOVE Darwin.

At his best he could be Apocalypes Jr.

I do wish they'd bring back his Black.

It's almost like they don't care that he's Afro/Latino.

[Diablito]

I like Darwin's visual/heritage.
I like Darwin's backstory.
I don't like his powers.
I don't like his personality (or lack thereof).

[Fatguy]

I'm confused. What's ignorant about not counting indigenous Australians as Pan African?
Jews, Gypsies and homosexuales were murdered during the Nazi holocaust, and Native Americans were give small pox blankets, etc. and many people may have suffered just as much as many other people, but what does that have to do with referring, or not referring, to them as black?

This isnt just directed at you Magneto X, but I'm curious...

What difference does it make if Bishop was retconned to be an Aboriginal? He's still a prominent black mutant. Does it really matter if his ancestory isnt African?

I'm pretty sure if the KKK is looking to hang somebody, saying that your really an Aboriginal wont make them stop in their tracks and see who's home in the next house over.

[Pach!]

It has to do with the difference in culture among aborigines and africans.

However if we are going to be that specific Brazilians, Mexican, Central American and South American countries are insanely different.

[Fatguy]

It has to do with the difference in culture among aborigines and africans.

Right, and there's a difference between cultures of Africans and African Americans too. But African Americans still consider themselves black.

[Flâneur]

I'm confused. What's ignorant about not counting indigenous Australians as Pan African?
Jews, Gypsies and homosexuales were murdered during the Nazi holocaust, and Native Americans were give small pox blankets, etc. and many people may have suffered just as much as many other people, but what does that have to do with referring, or not referring, to them as black?

Black does not mean African though that is often the first thing that pops into people's heads. Just because a person is of Indigenous Australian descent doesn't mean you can run with the idea that they aren't black enough - especially since the Indigenous Australian community has incorporated a large amount of Africa American cultural aspects so as to fill the vacuum of a culture that's essentially destroyed.

I think a large part of people dismissing other cultures is that very often the media and education systems seem to suffer from a degree of geographical blindness - we learn about culture and history associated with our own nation as well as that of Britain and the US but unless we pursue it we don't hear much of others.

As for me outlining their history ... someone inquired as to the recent status of Indigenous Australians and it's not within my capabilities to render a direct answer to what he asked so I outlined some of it.

It has to do with the difference in culture among aborigines and africans.
What do people think these differences are? I'm curious.

[Blade X]

So you're looking for what, quotas?

Cos that's worked SO well in Zimbabwe and South Africa hasn't it.

1. We are talkng about FICTIONAL characters NOT real living and breathing human beings.

2. My point isn't about quotas. I'm NOT asking Marvel to kill off a certain amount of white characters. I'm only asking that they NOT kill off the very few non-white minority heroes that they have.

[Blade X]

So are irish. How many irish characters are there .. Syrin, Black tom and Banshee and they killed off Banshee, those irish hating bastards!

All of those characters are white.

[Pach!]

All of those characters are white.

Just like Aborigines are different than Africans, white people are also different.

[Magneto X]

Just like Aborigines are different than Africans, white people are also different.

While some Irish and Italian and English and French and German people identify primarilly as Irish or Italian or English or French or German in terms of their ethnicity (not just nationality), more and more white people identify primarilly as white people, or as white people first.

The whiteness, which until recently gave them all important legal rights, and may still give them certain cultural rights, still connects most white people a manner of cultural understanding.

Black does not mean African though that is often the first thing that pops into people's heads.

Um ... yes it does: the #1 most accepted, used and understood meaning for black, exclusing non-racial uses of the word, by posters on this thread is going to be african-descended people. It's fine if you want to suggest we open that definition up, and you have a point. It is certainly possible to conceptually understand a use of that word that includes indigenous Australians, and dark-skinned Indian people and others. I'm not automatically opposed to thinking that black can alternatively mean a more inclusive term. But you chastized a person for using black in the way it most often applies. Maybe that feels good but your definition which includes indigenous Australians is not automcatically correct and an African American's definition that does not is wrong. Chastizing people for being "ignorant" so quickly, you ought to have more than a technical reason why they were so incorrect.

As I mentioned, there are many groups who have been oppressed and killed. That is not the same as being black.

Here are two differences. African descended people identify as black as in "I am a black man" and those who do not have family who do. Also, African descended people identify with recent African history, and if not, most of the people in their communities do. Do indigenous Australians even refer to themselves as black? Are you advocating for a label that many indigenous Australians would want? Do indigenous Australians identify with Africa?

If not, showing off knowledge about indigenous Australian history is interesting, but not quite on point when talking about black characters as the word is understood racially. We've also talked about "people of color" and "racial minoirties" and "characters of color" and those obviously apply to both groups.

People bemoaning what has happened to Darwin can clearly do so both in terms of how it is affecting a rare black Marvel character (although it is unknown if Darwin identified that way, though we may hope so given how few Marvel characters do), and bemoan how it is affecting a rare Marvel character of color.

[Blade X]

You have no idea how offensive it is to say Indigenous Australians aren't black enough. When you consider that the Indigenous Australians have probably had the shortest straw out of any race it is not respectful to try to take that part of their identity away as well.

Refer to it in any other way that you want but please don't do that, I know most people on this board won't appreciate that since they don't live in Australia so it's probably not malicious but please don't. Just leave the black term out of the discussion if you can't use it respectfully.

1. I NEVER said Aborigine's weren't "black enough" (which is a phrase that is also offensive to African Americans). I meant no disrespect.

2. I understand and completely sympathize with all of the crap that IA's have gone through. In case you haven't heard, we AA's have had it just as hard as IA's.

3. When I said "black" I was only talking about people of BLACK AFRICAN DESCENT, NOT all black skinned people from around the world. The last time I checked, IA's ARE NOT descendant from modern day black Africans.

[Blade X]

Just like Aborigines are different than Africans, white people are also different.

The last time I checked, Aborigines are not related to black Africans, but are more related to Asians. There's no big difference (genetically) between a white person from Ireland and a white person from Germany.

And I NEVER said that ALL white people were the same.

[Brian M.]

The last time I checked, Aborigines are not related to black Africans, but are more related to Asians. There's no big difference (genetically) between a white person from Ireland and a white person from Germany.

And I NEVER said that ALL white people were the same.

Except at Marvel where it's company policy to keep the black man down right?

[Pach!]

The last time I checked, Aborigines are not related to black Africans, but are more related to Asians. There's no big difference (genetically) between a white person from Ireland and a white person from Germany.

And I NEVER said that ALL white people were the same.
Well genetically we are all different, unless you mean in a broader sense... in which case we are all the same. Besides, is that the real reason you want more black characters?Genetic variance?

[Flâneur]

Just like Aborigines are different than Africans, white people are also different.
How? I don't understand whether you're saying everyone who is white is different or whether each group is equally distinct.

Um ... yes it does: the #1 most accepted, used and understood meaning for black, exclusing non-racial uses of the word, by posters on this thread is going to be african-descended people. It's fine if you want to suggest we open that definition up, and you have a point. It is certainly possible to conceptually understand a use of that word that includes indigenous Australians, and dark-skinned Indian people and others. I'm not automatically opposed to thinking that black can alternatively mean a more inclusive term. But you chastized a person for using black in the way it most often applies. Maybe that feels good but your definition which includes indigenous Australians is not automcatically correct and an African American's definition that does not is wrong. Chastizing people for being "ignorant" so quickly, you ought to have more than a technical reason why they were so incorrect.
It's not a definition that I'm trying to open up - black isn't just a racial definition - it's a political and cultural one.

As I mentioned, there are maDo indigenous Australians even refer to themselves as black? Are you advocating for a label that many indigenous Australians would want? Do indigenous Australians identify with Africa?
Yeah, they do.

If not, showing off knowledge about indigenous Australian history is interesting, but not quite on point when talking about black characters as the word is understood racially.
I really haven't got enough knowledge to 'show off' and I'd again point out that the word isn't constrained to race but to a combination of colour, culture and political standing. Which also isn't just a notion of mine.

1. I NEVER said Aborigine's weren't "black enough" (which is a phrase that is also offensive to African Americans). I meant no disrespect.
It was something that seemed implied from your statements, though I've always acted on the assumption that you never intended to be disrespectful.

2. I understand and completely sympathize with all of the crap that IA's have gone through. In case you haven't heard, we AA's have had it just as hard as IA's.
I have heard that AA persons have gone through hell and I'm not diminishing that. Some of the most heinous acts in history have been enacted upon the African American community.

3. When I said "black" I was only talking about people of BLACK AFRICAN DESCENT, NOT all black skinned people from around the world. The last time I checked, IA's ARE NOT descendant from modern day black Africans.
I get that they aren't descended from modern Africa, and I mentioned that you probably meant it as black african but that isn't the same as black.

[Pach!]

Flaneur, I mean culturally.

Peruvians and Chileans are both hispanic and neighboring countries but they don't have the same customs,we don't listen to the same music, we don't have the same traditional dances, our meals are based on different ingredients, they don't even speak the same language everywhere and even our spanish (our only language in common) is different. And that's 2 countries on the same continents right beside each other.

If this diversity thing is about having characters you can identify with then having an irish character doesn't help a Canadian, having a Peruvian character doesn't help a Chilean, etc.

[Fatguy]

While some Irish and Italian and English and French and German people identify primarilly as Irish or Italian or English or French or German in terms of their ethnicity (not just nationality), more and more white people identify primarilly as white people, or as white people first.


Do you want more black characters? Or more African characters?

Do you somehow relate more to an African character than an Aboriginal one? If so, why? Do you have some part in African tribal culture?

I'm just curious how this all works. I dont know why ancestry matters. If I wanted more white characters, I wouldnt want just Irish characters because my ancestors from god knows when came from Ireland.

[Flâneur]

Flan, I mean culturally.

Peruvians and Chileans are both hispanic and neighboring countries but they don't have the same customs,we don't listen to the same music, we don't have the same traditional dances, our meals are based on different ingredients, they don't even speak the same language everywhere and even our spanish (our only language in common) is different. And that's 2 countries on the same continents right beside each other.

If this diversity thing is about having characters you can identify with then having an irish character doesn't help a Canadian, having a Peruvian character doesn't help a Chilean, etc.
Oh right, I getcha.

And I think the identification depends on the degree of diversity - I think a Canadian would identify with an Irishman if there were like no other whites in the book. And cultures (and sexuality) get such a superficial treatment in the MU that I don't know if they really go beyond the colours that are used to fill in the pictures (or the exclamation: LOL I'm gay!)...

[IRONY...]

Does Brubaker has copyrights for this character or this is not happening nowdays?

I think that Darwin is one of the more original characters in the last 10 years of marvel comic books...I hope after David writers will treat him well...:)

[Magneto X]

Yeah, they do.

Then it shouldn't be hard to find references to support that Indigenous Australians call feel connected to Africa and prefer to call themselves black?

Do you want more black characters? Or more African characters?

Do you somehow relate more to an African character than an Aboriginal one? If so, why? Do you have some part in African tribal culture?

I'm just curious how this all works. I dont know why ancestry matters. If I wanted more white characters, I wouldnt want just Irish characters because my ancestors from god knows when came from Ireland.

I'd like more characters of color, including black characters. Some could be African. But if the comic takes place in the United States, I think that would be odd if there were more African immigrants than African Americans. Some could be indigenous Australians, that's fine, or Latinos, or Asian-descendants, or Arabs, or other races or ethnicities. But African-descended folks also need better representation. We make up 30% of New York City, 13% of the United States, and over 40% of the world. By any comparison, the Marvel Universe is SORELY lacking with less than 1% of superheroes and supervillains being African-descended. Latino and Asian descended characters are lacking as well. That why when some of the less than 1% are killed, and we are BACKTRACKING instead of growing, it is disapointing. It is also disapointnig when many of the less than 1% who are African descended do not come from predominantly-black communities and/or or are given caucasion features like light skin, blue eyes, and naturally non-kinky hair. It wouldn't be so much of a problem if we were better represented.

This isn't to say Marvel doesn't also skew the planet in terms of nationality, religion, orientation, and other factors, but that's not the topic of this thread.

I think that Darwin is one of the more original characters in the last 10 years of marvel comic books

I agree.

...I hope after David writers will treat him well...:)

I hope they start treating him well. Make him brown again. Give him a past (which would logically include Puerto Rico or a Puerto Rican community in the state). And no more gamma-siphoning-fingers or teleporting (when he could just become stretchy) or other ex machina abilities.

[Blade X]

It has to do with the difference in culture among aborigines and africans.

It's not only about the difference in culture, it's also about the fact the two groups are genetically different.

[Blade X]

Does Brubaker has copyrights for this character or this is not happening nowdays?

I think that Darwin is one of the more original characters in the last 10 years of marvel comic books...I hope after David writers will treat him well...:)

Bru does not own the copyright for Darwin, Marvel does.

And the idea behind Darwin is NOT original. I said it before, and I'll say it again. Before Darwin, there was Lifeguard. Before Lifeguard, there was Random. Before Random, there was Shane Gooseman (from the 80's cartoon GALAXY RANGERS).

[EC1231]

I think a big problem w/ this discussion is that a lot of you are missing the point. The main issue I see w/ Marvel's representation of Blacks is that a significant proportion of them aren't noticeably Black. It's like they're Black in name only.

Here's how it breaks down X-men through the years:

10 Blacks: Storm, Darwin, Bishop, Bling, Gentle, Frenzy, Prodigy, Maggot, Synch, Anarchist (4/10 (40%) are noticeably non-Black, 6/10 (60%) are active mutants)

4 Native Americans: Warpath 2, Forge, Moonstar, Warpath 1(0/4 (0%) are noticeably non-Native American, 2/4 (50%) are active mutants)

10 Asians: Sunfire, Sunpyre, Surge, Karma, Armor, Jubilee, Xorn 2, Revanche, Xorn, Sway (2/10 (20%) are noticeably non-Asian, 6/10 (60%) are active mutants)

2 Indians: Thunderbird, Omega Sentinel (0/2 (0%) are noticeably non-Indian, 2/2 (100%) are active mutants)

13 Hispanics: Darwin, Reyes, Magma, Sunspot, Rictor, Empath, Wind Dancer, Angel, Wraith, Feral, Thornn, Risque, Tag (4/13 (30%) are noticeably non-Hispanic[although 100% have Hispanic names], 6/13(46%) are active mutants).

[Pach!]

Rockslide isn't hispanic. And Angel, Cecilia Reyes and Sunspot are black.

[RolandJP]

Rockslide isn't hispanic. And Angel, Cecilia Reyes and Sunspot are black.
Brasil, Hispanic..latin..not black, but to the point....



http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u102/NoPrize/milk1.jpg



The sad thing is, I really thought he would play more of a vital role in X-men Messiah Complex stroyline. Oh well, maybe next year

[EC1231]

Rockslide isn't hispanic. And Angel, Cecilia Reyes and Sunspot are black.

You're right about Rockslide, but the others are just dark-skinned Hispanics, so I'll leave them where they are.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

The sad thing is, I really thought he would play more of a vital role in X-men Messiah Complex stroyline.

Really? Am genuinely curious? Why'd you think that?

Hank using him as a lab rat or something?

[Faded]

I think a big problem w/ this discussion is that a lot of you are missing the point. The main issue I see w/ Marvel's representation of Blacks is that a significant proportion of them aren't noticeably Black. It's like they're Black in name only.

Here's how it breaks down X-men through the years:

9 Blacks: Storm, Darwin, Bishop, Bling, Nezhno, Prodigy, Maggot, Synch, Anarchist (4/9 (44%) are noticeably non-Black, 5/9 (56%) are active mutants)

4 Native Americans: Warpath 2, Forge, Moonstar, Warpath 1(0/4 (0%) are noticeably non-Native American, 2/4 (50%) are active mutants)

10 Asians: Sunfire, Sunpyre, Surge, Karma, Armor, Jubilee, Xorn 2, Revanche, Xorn, Sway (2/10 (20%) are noticeably non-Asian, 6/10 (60%) are active mutants)

2 Indians: Thunderbird, Omega Sentinel (0/2 (0%) are noticeably non-Indian, 2/2 (100%) are active mutants)

13 Hispanics: Darwin, Reyes, Magma, Sunspot, Rictor, Empath, Wind Dancer, Angel, Wraith, Feral, Thornn, Risque, Tag (4/13 (30%) are noticeably non-Hispanic[although 100% have Hispanic names], 6/13(46%) are active mutants).

Technically Omega Sentinel isn't a mutant and Reyes might as well be in red as well.

Xorn II and Sunpyre are inactive, but Scrambler can take one of their spots there.

Blockbuster, Clay, Frenzy, and Bliss are other active Black mutants part of the 198--all visibly black.

Speaking of which, I think that's kind of irrelevant.

[Alan2099]

I think a big problem w/ this discussion is that a lot of you are missing the point. The main issue I see w/ Marvel's representation of Blacks is that a significant proportion of them aren't noticeably Black. It's like they're Black in name only.

Here's how it breaks down X-men through the years:

9 Blacks: Storm, Darwin, Bishop, Bling, Nezhno, Prodigy, Maggot, Synch, Anarchist (4/9 (44%) are noticeably non-Black, 5/9 (56%) are active mutants)

4 Native Americans: Warpath 2, Forge, Moonstar, Warpath 1(0/4 (0%) are noticeably non-Native American, 2/4 (50%) are active mutants)

10 Asians: Sunfire, Sunpyre, Surge, Karma, Armor, Jubilee, Xorn 2, Revanche, Xorn, Sway (2/10 (20%) are noticeably non-Asian, 6/10 (60%) are active mutants)

2 Indians: Thunderbird, Omega Sentinel (0/2 (0%) are noticeably non-Indian, 2/2 (100%) are active mutants)

13 Hispanics: Darwin, Reyes, Magma, Sunspot, Rictor, Empath, Wind Dancer, Angel, Wraith, Feral, Thornn, Risque, Tag (4/13 (30%) are noticeably non-Hispanic[although 100% have Hispanic names], 6/13(46%) are active mutants).
So, out of curiosity, what's the percentage of white mutants that are noticebly no white and/or nonactive?

[Faded]

Darwin will be back in time for X-Men: Even Deadlier Genesis, where Brubaker will reveal that Sway and Petra never died, but have been living in Guadalajara, making and selling friendship bracelets and getting to know each others' bodies.

What kind of gay are you, anyway?!

[ProfeZZor X]

For those that want to know what he's capable of (with picture references), here is a respect thread dedicated to him:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=433588&pagenumber=1

[ProfeZZor X]

I think a big problem w/ this discussion is that a lot of you are missing the point. The main issue I see w/ Marvel's representation of Blacks is that a significant proportion of them aren't noticeably Black. It's like they're Black in name only.

Here's how it breaks down X-men through the years:

9 Blacks: Storm, Darwin, Bishop, Bling, Nezhno, Prodigy, Maggot, Synch, Anarchist (4/9 (44%) are noticeably non-Black, 5/9 (56%) are active mutants)

4 Native Americans: Warpath 2, Forge, Moonstar, Warpath 1(0/4 (0%) are noticeably non-Native American, 2/4 (50%) are active mutants)

10 Asians: Sunfire, Sunpyre, Surge, Karma, Armor, Jubilee, Xorn 2, Revanche, Xorn, Sway (2/10 (20%) are noticeably non-Asian, 6/10 (60%) are active mutants)

2 Indians: Thunderbird, Omega Sentinel (0/2 (0%) are noticeably non-Indian, 2/2 (100%) are active mutants)

13 Hispanics: Darwin, Reyes, Magma, Sunspot, Rictor, Empath, Wind Dancer, Angel, Wraith, Feral, Thornn, Risque, Tag (4/13 (30%) are noticeably non-Hispanic[although 100% have Hispanic names], 6/13(46%) are active mutants).

You're missing Frenzy, Gateway, and Heather Hudson from your equasion. Not to mention Monet and Gentle. I guess Mondo would fall under the Asian/Pacific Islander catagory.

[EC1231]

You're missing Frenzy, Gateway, and Heather Hudson from your equasion. Not to mention Monet and Gentle. I guess Mondo would fall under the Asian/Pacific Islander catagory.

I didn't know Frenzy was ever on an X-team, so I'll fix it. Gateway's not Black, Monet's half-Algerian & more Arabic than Black, and Gentle= Nehzno. I'd put Heather Hudson, but she's not part of mainstream universe.

[Fatguy]

I'd like more characters of color, including black characters. Some could be African. But if the comic takes place in the United States, I think that would be odd if there were more African immigrants than African Americans. Some could be indigenous Australians, that's fine, or Latinos, or Asian-descendants, or Arabs, or other races or ethnicities. But African-descended folks also need better representation. We make up 30% of New York City, 13% of the United States, and over 40% of the world. By any comparison, the Marvel Universe is SORELY lacking with less than 1% of superheroes and supervillains being African-descended. Latino and Asian descended characters are lacking as well. That why when some of the less than 1% are killed, and we are BACKTRACKING instead of growing, it is disapointing. It is also disapointnig when many of the less than 1% who are African descended do not come from predominantly-black communities and/or or are given caucasion features like light skin, blue eyes, and naturally non-kinky hair. It wouldn't be so much of a problem if we were better represented.


Yea, you cant argue that one, it would be lame if they continue to knock off what non-white characters the X-Franchise actually DO have.

Here's hoping Nezhno goes all uber during Messiah Complex and stays alive. I love that guy.

[jarrod]

Screw racial/ethnic minorities, I demand better X-fag representation! Now there's an issue CBR can really rally around! :D

We're either being killed, dismembered or forced into laundry slavery... none of you've had it worse than us! :mad:

[Flâneur]

Then it shouldn't be hard to find references to support that Indigenous Australians call feel connected to Africa and prefer to call themselves black?
*Africans. They identify with the peoples, particularly African Americans, not necessarily the continent.

And I can, my academic institution gives me access to several thousand articles involving Indigenous Australians. Simply tell me which databases you have access to and I'll find you an appropriate article. News reports, interviews, government reports, academic journals, autobiographies ... take your pick.

I'm also starting to think it might be best if we made an arrangement with Cronin for there to be an all-purpose X-ethnicity thread so that threads like these don't get derailed.

[Magneto X]

you cant argue that one, it would be lame if they continue to knock off what non-white characters the X-Franchise actually DO have.

For real!!!


I didn't know Frenzy was ever on an X-team, so I'll fix it. Gateway's not Black, Monet's half-Algerian & more Arabic than Black, and Gentle= Nehzno. I'd put Heather Hudson, but she's not part of mainstream universe.

Frenzy has never been one of the X-Men. She was only briefly mind controlled by Jean Grey. She's always opposed them and one brief instance of being forced to help them by mind control doesn't change that..

So, out of curiosity, what's the percentage of white mutants that are noticebly no white and/or nonactive?

Non-active would be a lot because more white characters have been introduced. (I mean Pulse was recently introduced, basically for one issue one, to do one thing: ex machina a way to depower Apocalypse.) Noticeably non-white would be very very few, maybe, none unless you count blue people, both of whom use hologram inducers to give them a caucasion appearance.

[bluedmighty]

Right, and there's a difference between cultures of Africans and African Americans too. But African Americans still consider themselves black.

The reason we consider ourselves black (or other) is because, at our base, we have no national identity.

We were taken from different peoples, nations, and tribes. The only connection we have, or clue to were we come from is our skin tone.

Sad, but true.

I could go deeper, but I don't want to get murdered.

[Fatguy]

I could go deeper, but I don't want to get murdered.

lol what do you mean?

[bluedmighty]

lol what do you mean?

America is a Mansion, built on a cracked foundation, nestled in sinksoil.

To speak Truth is Treason.

That's why Hip-Hop speaks in Meta-Forms :D

[Blade X]

Brasil, Hispanic..latin..not black, but to the point....



http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u102/NoPrize/milk1.jpg



The sad thing is, I really thought he would play more of a vital role in X-men Messiah Complex stroyline. Oh well, maybe next year

Many Latinos, be they from Brazil or Puerto Rico, are of African descent. They might not be 100% black African (just like MOST African Americans aren't 100% black African), but many of them are still of black African descent.

[Blade X]

You're right about Rockslide, but the others are just dark-skinned Hispanics, so I'll leave them where they are.

Hispanic or Latino is NOT a racial group, but is an ETHNIC group comprised of people descended from MANY racial groups.

[Brian M.]

Hispanic or Latino is NOT a racial group, but is an ETHNIC group comprised of people descended from MANY racial groups.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Fatguy]

America is a Mansion, built on a cracked foundation, nestled in sinksoil.

To speak Truth is Treason.

That's why Hip-Hop speaks in Meta-Forms :D

Wha?

You can speak your mind here, dude. I promise that we wont, like, call THE MAN down on your head or anything ;)

[Magneto X]

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f106/vancegathing/thebrowndarwin.jpg

[EC1231]

Hispanic or Latino is NOT a racial group, but is an ETHNIC group comprised of people descended from MANY racial groups.

Hispanic is as much a racial group as Black & White are.

[Pach!]

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f106/vancegathing/thebrowndarwin.jpg






He's still black and hispanic.

[ZNOP]

Hispanic or Latino is NOT a racial group, but is an ETHNIC group comprised of people descended from MANY racial groups.

Main Entry: His·pan·ic
Pronunciation: \hi-'spa-nik\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin hispanicus, from Hispania Iberian Peninsula, Spain
Date: 1584
1: of or relating to the people, speech, or culture of Spain or of Spain and Portugal
2: of, relating to, or being a person of Latin American descent living in the United States; especially : one of Cuban, Mexican, or Puerto Rican origin

[bluedmighty]

Wha?

You can speak your mind here, dude. I promise that we wont, like, call THE MAN down on your head or anything ;)

:D Thanx.

All I meant was:

Our culture was built on race, religion, and representation.

[Magneto X]

He's still black and hispanic.

We know that some readers have no idea. That takes some of the benefit out of it. One wonders if the writer and colorist were even informed.

[Pach!]

We know that some readers have no idea. That takes some of the benefit out of it. One wonders if the writer and colorist were even informed.

One assumes that the writer made the decision to make him black/hispanic knowing he was going to make the decision.

[Magneto X]

One assumes that the writer made the decision to make him black/hispanic knowing he was going to make the decision.

True. And he also made him brown. Now he's not. And unlike other characters, nobody calls him by his real name. His ethnicity could be forgotten by the writers for all we know.

[Pach!]

True. And he also made him brown. Now he's not. And unlike other characters, nobody calls him by his real name. His ethnicity could be forgotten by the writers for all we know.

Well that would be the writers fault. The same writer that made him brown was the one that changed the color of his skin. It's not like he was ever made to be brown. That's how he was created. Besides there is more to being black or hispanic than just being dark skinned. There is no need to make his skin black. And if a writer forgets an ethnicity well that just reflects poorly on the writer for not doing his research.

[Brian M.]

True. And he also made him brown. Now he's not. And unlike other characters, nobody calls him by his real name. His ethnicity could be forgotten by the writers for all we know.

It's a comic book. Comic book. Again...it's a COMIC BOOK!!!!

[Magneto X]

It's a comic book. Comic book. Again...it's a COMIC BOOK!!!!

Obviously. And if people were wondering why the characters can fly, instead of why the characters are 99.5% Caucuasion, then that would be awfully relevant.

Besides there is more to being black or hispanic than just being dark skinned.

Sure. But dark skin is certainly very relevant to being black or hispanic. And, even limited to that issue, there is a lack of representation of dark skin. Even when a character is Indian, for example, Marvel makes them a light skinned Indian. Darwin is another lost opportunity to make things a little closer to real.

[Blade X]

Hispanic is as much a racial group as Black & White are.

No they aren't. The word "Hispanic" has often been used incorrectly to label an ethnic group as a racial group. The native people of Spain and Portugal (both country's are in Europe) are WHITE. When the Spaniards and Portugese colonized South America,North America (Mexico),and Puerto Rico, they not only brought with them BLACK AFRICAN slaves. In fact, according to a recent documentary about Brazil that aired on the Discovery Channel about 5 months ago, Brazil has the 2nd largest black African population in the world.

The bottom line is that Hispanics or Latinos is nothing more then a large ethnic group that speaks the same language and shares the same culture.

[Blade X]

Main Entry: His·pan·ic
Pronunciation: \hi-'spa-nik\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin hispanicus, from Hispania Iberian Peninsula, Spain
Date: 1584
1: of or relating to the people, speech, or culture of Spain or of Spain and Portugal
2: of, relating to, or being a person of Latin American descent living in the United States; especially : one of Cuban, Mexican, or Puerto Rican origin

So, what's your point?

[Jake V]

We know that some readers have no idea. That takes some of the benefit out of it. One wonders if the writer and colorist were even informed.
I don't see how knowing his ethnic background is relevant.

[Pach!]

No they aren't. The word "Hispanic" has often been used incorrectly to label an ethnic group as a racial group. The native people of Spain and Portugal (both country's are in Europe) are WHITE. When the Spaniards and Portugese colonized South America,North America (Mexico),and Puerto Rico, they not only brought with them BLACK AFRICAN slaves. In fact, according to a recent documentary about Brazil that aired on the Discovery Channel about 5 months ago, Brazil has the 2nd largest black African population in the world.

The bottom line is that Hispanics or Latinos is nothing more then a large ethnic group that speaks the same language and shares the same culture.

Wait, so what about all the south american indians... are we white or black? If you want I can show you an example:
http://www.mongabay.com/images/peru/andes/Chinchero_1017_0541.JPG

Shit, I wish I was part of a racial group.

[Hi-Fi]

No they aren't. The word "Hispanic" has often been used incorrectly to label an ethnic group as a racial group. The native people of Spain and Portugal (both country's are in Europe) are WHITE. When the Spaniards and Portugese colonized South America,North America (Mexico),and Puerto Rico, they not only brought with them BLACK AFRICAN slaves. In fact, according to a recent documentary about Brazil that aired on the Discovery Channel about 5 months ago, Brazil has the 2nd largest black African population in the world.

The bottom line is that Hispanics or Latinos is nothing more then a large ethnic group that speaks the same language and shares the same culture.
Actually, we don't speak the same language as the rest of South America here in Brazil.

[Pach!]

Actually, we don't speak the same language as the rest of South America here in Brazil.

Sim/Não is not the same as Si/No? My New mutants comics beg to differ!

[Hi-Fi]

Sim/Não is not the same as Si/No? My New mutants comics beg to differ!
And apparently, I should not say "Meu Deus!" but "Madonna!!"

LOL

[Faded]

I would like an Asian male X-Man.

There really isn't one in the history of mankind that isn't far better suited as a Marauder.

They should've made Hellion an Eurazn.

[Blade X]

Wait, so what about all the south american indians... are we white or black? If you want I can show you an example:
http://www.mongabay.com/images/peru/andes/Chinchero_1017_0541.JPG

Shit, I wish I was part of a racial group.

You're brown. :)

Seriously, you are more related to Asians genetically.

I should also point out that there was also interracial mating between white Spanish/Portuguese Europeans,black Africans,and native South American Indians. The same thing has also happened in America.

[Blade X]

Actually, we don't speak the same language as the rest of South America here in Brazil.

Yeah I know you guys speak Portuguese, but you guys are still labeled as Latinos.

[Magneto X]

I don't see how knowing his ethnic background is relevant.

It's incredibly relevant to getting to know someone, describing someone, or understanding a character in literature: 1) what a person does for a living (although for major characters in comics this is likely superhero or villain), 2) who they know or affiliate with that you already know, 3) where they come from, 4) where they live now, 5) gender, 6) race/ethnicity, and 7) religion. (personality quirks, politics, philisophical ideals (like being a vegetarian or not watching tv), relationships, and personal preferences would follow, but those first seven you often know before meeting someone or at least early on.

I wish I was part of a racial group.

How about white?

I would like an Asian male X-Man.

That would be cool.

[CJ Lentze]

It's incredibly relevant to getting to know someone, describing someone, or understanding a character in literature: 1) what a person does for a living (although for major characters in comics this is likely superhero or villain), 2) who they know or affiliate with that you already know, 3) where they come from, 4) where they live now, 5) gender, 6) race/ethnicity, and 7) religion. (personality quirks, politics, philisophical ideals (like being a vegetarian or not watching tv), relationships, and personal preferences would follow, but those first seven you often know before meeting someone or at least early on.

I would say that when it comes to getting to know a fictional character, it's equally important to be introduced to their personality, philosophical ideals, preferences, as it is to most of these first seven you mention. When you see a comic book character on panel for the first time, you only see the picture. Usually, gender and race will be apparent from that 'first glance'. I guess, the other 5 come in pretty quickly as well, as they simply describe a character's general situation in the universe they live in.

But AFTER that introduction, the character starts to talk and act, and we see how they interact with other characters, who they would vote for, what's their favourite food, what makes them angry... and it gets fed to the reader in small bites, but after four weeks of reading you have the idea you've gotten to know this character.

Does Darwin's ethnicity explain where he comes from? Does it influence his being and acting? Partially. But there's a whole lot of other factors that make the character. We've already been introduced to Darwin. I agree, artists should draw his features to accord with his ethnicity (at least barring the bald, alienesque pupil-less mutant traits he gained overtime), but far more important than that is fleshing him out.

[RolandJP]

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u102/NoPrize/milk1.jpg

[xmanson]

Yeah I know you guys speak Portuguese, but you guys are still labeled as Latinos.

Which has more to do with location than anyhting else.

[Blade X]

Which has more to do with location than anyhting else.

That is so very true.

[Slung]

I think a big problem w/ this discussion is that a lot of you are missing the point. The main issue I see w/ Marvel's representation of Blacks is that a significant proportion of them aren't noticeably Black. It's like they're Black in name only.

Here's how it breaks down X-men through the years:

10 Blacks: Storm, Darwin, Bishop, Bling, Gentle, Frenzy, Prodigy, Maggot, Synch, Anarchist (4/10 (40%) are noticeably non-Black, 6/10 (60%) are active mutants)

4 Native Americans: Warpath 2, Forge, Moonstar, Warpath 1(0/4 (0%) are noticeably non-Native American, 2/4 (50%) are active mutants)

10 Asians: Sunfire, Sunpyre, Surge, Karma, Armor, Jubilee, Xorn 2, Revanche, Xorn, Sway (2/10 (20%) are noticeably non-Asian, 6/10 (60%) are active mutants)

2 Indians: Thunderbird, Omega Sentinel (0/2 (0%) are noticeably non-Indian, 2/2 (100%) are active mutants)

13 Hispanics: Darwin, Reyes, Magma, Sunspot, Rictor, Empath, Wind Dancer, Angel, Wraith, Feral, Thornn, Risque, Tag (4/13 (30%) are noticeably non-Hispanic[although 100% have Hispanic names], 6/13(46%) are active mutants).

You left out Middle-Eastern characters, Jewish characters and gay characters from your list of minorities.

Middle Eastern/Northern African: Monet, Dust (Am I missing anyone?)

Jewish: Kitty, Magneto, Polaris(If her mom is not Jewish, is she still Jewish?), Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver

Gay: Northstar, Anole, Karma

And what does "noticeably non-Hispanic" mean? Here in LA even if you have blonde hair/blue eyes you can still consider yourself "Hispanic" or "Mexican" or "Latino" (whichever you like to identify yourself as) if you have roots from that ethnicity.

[Magneto X]

And what does "noticeably non-Hispanic" mean? Here in LA even if you have blonde hair/blue eyes you can still consider yourself "Hispanic" or "Mexican" or "Latino" (whichever you like to identify yourself as) if you have roots from that ethnicity.

I think it is a rather desperate justification whenever a response to a critique begins by saying "Well, there exists ..." True, there exists albino black people. There exists light-skinned Latino people, some of whom are blond with blue eyes. Some of these unusual black and Latino people have been raised in predominantly-white neighborhoods and/or adopted by white parents. However, if a book (including a comic) includes thousands of characters, and less than 1% of those characters are black or Latino and, even WORSE, half of them have these characteristics that are so common to whites and so very unlikely for blacks and Latinos. You can't justify it case by case (well, maybe Storm's mutation creates blue eyes, well maybe Darwin's lightened his skin, etc) if what we are criticizing is this pattern.

[Slung]

I think it is a rather desperate justification whenever a response to a critique begins by saying "Well, there exists ..." True, there exists albino black people. There exists light-skinned Latino people, some of whom are blond with blue eyes. Some of these unusual black and Latino people have been raised in predominantly-white neighborhoods and/or adopted by white parents. However, if a book (including a comic) includes thousands of characters, and less than 1% of those characters are black or Latino and, even WORSE, half of them have these characteristics that are so common to whites and so very unlikely for blacks and Latinos. You can't justify it case by case (well, maybe Storm's mutation creates blue eyes, well maybe Darwin's lightened his skin, etc) if what we are criticizing is this pattern.
I didn't say "well, there exists..." I said that here in LA there are people with various physical makeups that fit into the Hispanic or Latino group. They would find it very offensive that they are being marginalized because they don't fit your stereotype of what a person of their ethnicity should look like. And they aren't coming from predominantly-white neighborhoods and/or adopted by white parents. I don't know where you are getting that from. Mexico/Central America/South America and the SouthEastern US are peopled with a diverse range of beautiful shades of skin. Why prejudice against people who are not the majority? And just because someone has light hair or eyes doesn't even mean they have light skin in this case. You may not mean to, but you are sounding judgemental towards certain types of people: light-skinned african americans and latinos. Are these people somehow not as good as their darker skinned brothers? I actually think in many ways, the people who do not fit the stereotype are often shunned by both sides: one for not being "black" enough and the other for not being "white" enough. Please don't perpetuate this problem. I think its cool that we can have Cece Reyes and Rictor as two different people that represent a "hispanic" ethnicity that is very different from each other.

[Pach!]

I think it is a rather desperate justification whenever a response to a critique begins by saying "Well, there exists ..." True, there exists albino black people. There exists light-skinned Latino people, some of whom are blond with blue eyes. Some of these unusual black and Latino people have been raised in predominantly-white neighborhoods and/or adopted by white parents. However, if a book (including a comic) includes thousands of characters, and less than 1% of those characters are black or Latino and, even WORSE, half of them have these characteristics that are so common to whites and so very unlikely for blacks and Latinos. You can't justify it case by case (well, maybe Storm's mutation creates blue eyes, well maybe Darwin's lightened his skin, etc) if what we are criticizing is this pattern.

Clearly you have never been to Argentina or Uruguay, etc. You can find a LOT of white hispanics.

[Brian M.]

Clearly you have never been to Argentina or Uruguay, etc. You can find a LOT of white hispanics.

The only color that matters to these posters Andres is their own. Save your breathe.

[Faded]

Turquoise.

[Joe Franklin]

The only color that matters to these posters Andres is their own. Save your breathe.

I like green myself.:D

[Brian M.]

I like green myself.:D

I'm more of an Orange fan myself.

[RoguishGurl]

I'm more of an Orange fan myself.

Crimson and Cream baby!! But I still like my idea of sky blue people.

[Omega Alpha]

Clearly you have never been to Argentina or Uruguay, etc. You can find a LOT of white hispanics.

I have no idea as to what you're classifying as hispanic or not at that point, but 87% of the Argentinian population is white and in Uruguay the numbers are at 94% (found it at Wiki).

[RoguishGurl]

I have no idea as to what you're classifying as hispanic or not at that point, but 87% of the Argentinian population is white and in Uruguay the numbers are at 94% (found it at Wiki).

Argentina and Uruguay are still considered Hispanic countries since they were colonized by people from what was known as Hispania. And this was also found on Wiki, although it's not that great of a source.

[Hi-Fi]

Here in Brazil:

The last PNAD (National Research for Sample of Domiciles) census revealed the following numbers: 92.096 million White people (46.7%), 80.782 million Brown people (43.6%), 13.908 million Black people (8.9%), 919 thousand Asian people (0.5%) and 519 thousand Amerindian people (0.3%).

[Pach!]

By the way, I'm not sure if I made my point clear. I know there are white hispanics. I was answering to this:

Some of these unusual black and Latino people have been raised in predominantly-white neighborhoods and/or adopted by white parents.
In which case unusual latino people refers to white hispanics.
They are HARDLY unusual.

[Slung]

By the way, I'm not sure if I made my point clear. I know there are white hispanics. I was answering to this:


In which case unusual latino people refers to white hispanics.
They are HARDLY unusual.

Yep. There are hispanic people who are fair skinned and also black. Not that unusual.

[CyberHubbs]

I'm "hispanic" -- Puerto Rican and Dominican -- and fairly "white" unless I tan. Like someone else said, you don't have to look like Shaft to be a part of your ethnicity.

Darwin's problem is that he needs breathing room. I'm not sure if its been touched upon in the comics, but he's gone from one crisis to another without stopping to realize that he's in a completely different world than the one he remembered. Does he have family left? Is he curious about what he's missed?

I think he'd be a cool friend for Nightcrawler, also. I could see them meshing well outside of the next daily adventure.

[Hi-Fi]

I'm "hispanic" -- Puerto Rican and Dominican -- and fairly "white" unless I tan. Like someone else said, you don't have to look like Shaft to be a part of your ethnicity.
Exactly. Those guys would probably get offended if the next brazilian character popping up was white.

[CyberHubbs]

Exactly. Those guys would probably get offended if the next brazilian character popping up was white.

Now let me point out that I would not mind in the least if all hispanic characters looked like Shaft, mind you. 'Cause, you know, Shaft is one baaaad mother...

[Hi-Fi]

Now let me point out that I would not mind in the least if all hispanic characters looked like Shaft, mind you. 'Cause, you know, Shaft is one baaaad mother...
LOL, that's true.

[CyberHubbs]

Anyway, Darwin is really more of a mocha color. That's all I'm sayin'.

[Faded]

LOL, that's true.

LOL, not its really not.

*exiles for real for real this time*

[CyberHubbs]

LOL, not its really not.

*exiles for real for real this time*

Shaft isn't a bad mofo?

[Faded]

Shaft isn't a bad mofo?

No, he's a cutie pie!

[Hi-Fi]

LOL, not its really not.

*exiles for real for real this time*
Like, you WOULDN'T!!

<3

[Faded]

Like, you WOULDN'T!!

<3

It's all because of you!

[Blade X]

Here in Brazil:

The last PNAD (National Research for Sample of Domiciles) census revealed the following numbers: 92.096 million White people (46.7%), 80.782 million Brown people (43.6%), 13.908 million Black people (8.9%), 919 thousand Asian people (0.5%) and 519 thousand Amerindian people (0.3%).

There's an old saying we African Americans have here in the states that I think apply to Brazil based on what I have heard and read about their racial hangups. Particular towards black skinned people.

If you're black, get back.
If you're brown, stick around.
If you're white, you're all right.

Just because many Brazilians label themselves as either white or brown, DOES NOT mean that they are not black or have any black African ancestors. I suspect that many "white" and "brown" Brazilians are trying to either "pass" as a white person or deny their black African roots. There are many brown skin and white skin African Americans. So I know it's quite possible for someone to be of black African descent, and pass themselves off as anything other then black.

[Blade X]

Now let me point out that I would not mind in the least if all hispanic characters looked like Shaft, mind you. 'Cause, you know, Shaft is one baaaad mother...

HUSH YOUR MOUTH

[EC1231]

And what does "noticeably non-Hispanic" mean? Here in LA even if you have blonde hair/blue eyes you can still consider yourself "Hispanic" or "Mexican" or "Latino" (whichever you like to identify yourself as) if you have roots from that ethnicity.

"Noticeably non-" means that the character has had major aspects that would clearly identify their race removed. Making Storm's hair flowy, white, and giving her blue eyes are all traits that completely contrast what a typical person would consider Black traits. It's akin to having a blond-haired blue eyed Asian who's name was Sue McDoyle. What's the point of having ethnic characters if a significant portion of them are minorities in name only? If Marvel wants a Black X-man, make him Black. Don't make him some non-descript character whose only Black b/c the origins say "X was born Black..."

You don't see Marvel making light-skinned Native Americans, dark-skinned Asians, or fair-haired Indians. Even the Hispanics get to keep their notably Hispanic names. How many of Marvel's Hispanic X-men are named Steve Johnson? The vast majority of Marvel's other ethnic & racial groups keep the most noticeable aspects of their race & ethnicity intact. Can you really same the same about its Black mutants?

[Slung]

"Noticeably non-" means that the character has had major aspects that would clearly identify their race removed. Making Storm's hair flowy, white, and giving her blue eyes are all traits that completely contrast what a typical person would consider Black traits. It's akin to having a blond-haired blue eyed Asian who's name was Sue McDoyle. What's the point of having ethnic characters if a significant portion of them are minorities in name only? If Marvel wants a Black X-man, make him Black. Don't make him some non-descript character whose only Black b/c the origins say "X was born Black..."

You don't see Marvel making light-skinned Native Americans, dark-skinned Asians, or fair-haired Indians. Even the Hispanics get to keep their notably Hispanic names. How many of Marvel's Hispanic X-men are named Steve Johnson? The vast majority of Marvel's other ethnic & racial groups keep the most noticeable aspects of their race & ethnicity intact. Can you really same the same about its Black mutants?
What does this have to do with Hispanic characters with various degrees of skin color? And exactly which black characters are you referring to other than Storm?

[EC1231]

What does this have to do with Hispanic characters with various degrees of skin color? And exactly which black characters are you referring to other than Storm?

I never said that there's a general skin color for Hispanics b/c I know that's not true. But Marvel hasn't done anything to completely detach the character's Hispanic-ness, either. Blacks aren't lucky enough to have noticeably ethnic names, so even if Thornn or Sunspot are completely mutated, once you hear their names, it clicks that they're Hispanic. Can you really say the same about Bling, Darwin, & Maggot. They're BINOs (Black in name only).

[Omega Alpha]

"Noticeably non-" means that the character has had major aspects that would clearly identify their race removed. Making Storm's hair flowy, white, and giving her blue eyes are all traits that completely contrast what a typical person would consider Black traits. It's akin to having a blond-haired blue eyed Asian who's name was Sue McDoyle. What's the point of having ethnic characters if a significant portion of them are minorities in name only? If Marvel wants a Black X-man, make him Black. Don't make him some non-descript character whose only Black b/c the origins say "X was born Black..."

You don't see Marvel making light-skinned Native Americans, dark-skinned Asians, or fair-haired Indians. Even the Hispanics get to keep their notably Hispanic names. How many of Marvel's Hispanic X-men are named Steve Johnson? The vast majority of Marvel's other ethnic & racial groups keep the most noticeable aspects of their race & ethnicity intact. Can you really same the same about its Black mutants?

Or... Marvel could simply not try to fill quotas and have the characters be designed as to how they would look cooler, or how artists and writers want. It worked for Storm. And in a company in which the 2nd most famous character is green and sometimes gray, it seems even sillier to say "a person should look like this or that".

[GoingGreen]

So... I'm assuming Darwin adapts in all aspects of his life. Meaning, he adapts to have a healing factor to get rid of illness and disease, adapts to have a fireproof tongue for coffee and hotpockets fresh out of the microwave, right? Well, what happens with bedroom activities? I mean, what if he keeps adapting and adapting, but still can't help the girl out, because she's broken.

Does he malfunction, spark from the neck and shut down?

[Greg Anderson]

So... I'm assuming Darwin adapts in all aspects of his life. Meaning, he adapts to have a healing factor to get rid of illness and disease, adapts to have a fireproof tongue for coffee and hotpockets fresh out of the microwave, right? Well, what happens with bedroom activities? I mean, what if he keeps adapting and adapting, but still can't help the girl out, because she's broken.

Does he malfunction, spark from the neck and shut down?

Heh... that's actually a good question. :o

[Magneto X]

"Noticeably non-" means that the character has had major aspects that would clearly identify their race removed. Making Storm's hair flowy, white, and giving her blue eyes are all traits that completely contrast what a typical person would consider Black traits. It's akin to having a blond-haired blue eyed Asian who's name was Sue McDoyle. What's the point of having ethnic characters if a significant portion of them are minorities in name only? If Marvel wants a Black X-man, make him Black. Don't make him some non-descript character whose only Black b/c the origins say "X was born Black..."

You don't see Marvel making light-skinned Native Americans, dark-skinned Asians, or fair-haired Indians. Even the Hispanics get to keep their notably Hispanic names. How many of Marvel's Hispanic X-men are named Steve Johnson? The vast majority of Marvel's other ethnic & racial groups keep the most noticeable aspects of their race & ethnicity intact. Can you really same the same about its Black mutants?


AWESOME!

The only color that matters to these posters Andres is their own. Save your breathe.

What is my race, smart guy? And what is your comparison? Both major comic companies are white dominated, so you don't have an example of major comic company that keeps mistreating the representation of whites decade after decade. When you do, you can see if I am equally critical. Until then, I think I'll focus on both companies having 99% of their characters being white. Whatever you imagine my motivations to be, you can't argue that 99% white is accurate, fair or realistic.

Or... Marvel could simply not try to fill quotas and have the characters be designed as to how they would look cooler, or how artists and writers want. It worked for Storm.

Yeah. With all the groups based in the very multi-racial New York City area, we got Storm, a major black character, with flowy hair and blue eyes and who hung with no other black people, more than 30 years ago! And how many white characters since then? Please. Call it a quota, call it inclusion, call it reality, I don't care. It's not realistic to portray a world where 99% of the characters are white. It's just not. And the failure of some readers to notice it doesn't make it any less ridiculous to accept a world staying 99% white because some writers can't be bothered to learn, write and draw about the millions of NYC area people of color that are their neighbors.

[Magneto X]

here in LA there are people with various physical makeups that fit into the Hispanic or Latino group.

What percentage of Latinos in LA have natural blond hair and blue eyes? 1%? 3%? Yes, that's not much better than a "There exists ... " argument to me. If Marvel has only ten well known black characters and Latino characters out of thousands of charcters, then I wouldn't be surprised if they all had dark hair and brown eyes. However, I would be surprised if a large number of them had unusually-caucasion type features for the overwhelming majority of black and Latino people.

Clearly you have never been to Argentina or Uruguay, etc. You can find a LOT of white hispanics.

Those two singled out countries put together represent a very small part of Latin America, especially if you include the Latino people in the U.S. What percentage of people in Latin America have blond hair and blue eyes? What is the point, to argue that Marvel is being representative? :confused: They are not.


Whether you compare Marvel's demographics to New York City, the United States, or the World, it is heavily, intensely, obviously, gratuitously skewed white.

[Faded]

Partly due to this thread and partly due to my own desires, I asked RISQUE-INDIFFERENT YET FABULOUS Jim @ Marvel this on the Bendis boards:

3) There has been a lot of talk on other boards about race and representation in a book that analogues real-life minorities. With so few mutants still existing, is it possible we will be able to see more international or ethnic American mutants in the future, even possibly as members of the X-Men?

1) No plans for Risque at the moment.

3- We don't create characters to fill a quota on race or sexuality, honestly, but I would challenge that there are more minority active X-Men (on all X-teams) than ever before. Dust, Nori, Anole, David, Bishop, Storm, Armor, Nezhno, Monet, Rockslide, Warpath, Rictor, and I'm sure I'm forgetting someone-- these all play a role in Messiah Complex and beyond. Not bad! As for future characters, their race and socio-economic background come from the story first, rather than filling any percieved void.

http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?t=127881&page=23

[Pach!]

What percentage of Latinos in LA have natural blond hair and blue eyes? 1%? 3%? Yes, that's not much better than a "There exists ... " argument to me. If Marvel has only ten well known black characters and Latino characters out of thousands of charcters, then I wouldn't be surprised if they all had dark hair and brown eyes. However, I would be surprised if a large number of them had unusually-caucasion type features for the overwhelming majority of black and Latino people.



Those two singled out countries put together represent a very small part of Latin America, especially if you include the Latino people in the U.S. What percentage of people in Latin America have blond hair and blue eyes? What is the point, to argue that Marvel is being representative? :confused: They are not.


Whether you compare Marvel's demographics to New York City, the United States, or the World, it is heavily, intensely, obviously, gratuitously skewed white.

Those 2 countries were cited because they are close to 100% white, and they are not small countries at all. Brazil,Cuba,Panama, Most of the coast of Peru ..all have a lot of very white people.
And that depends if you're counting Spain.

[Faded]

"Noticeably non-" means that the character has had major aspects that would clearly identify their race removed. Making Storm's hair flowy, white, and giving her blue eyes are all traits that completely contrast what a typical person would consider Black traits. It's akin to having a blond-haired blue eyed Asian who's name was Sue McDoyle. What's the point of having ethnic characters if a significant portion of them are minorities in name only? If Marvel wants a Black X-man, make him Black. Don't make him some non-descript character whose only Black b/c the origins say "X was born Black..."

Is Storm really to the point where you would question her race though?

From my introduction to her, I thought of her as a Black Woman + a colorful superhero design.

Asian Superhero Sue McDoyle would be preferrable as an American-adopted Asian Superhero than to Makezi Yakamoto, NINJA, tbh.

You don't see Marvel making light-skinned Native Americans, dark-skinned Asians, or fair-haired Indians. Even the Hispanics get to keep their notably Hispanic names. How many of Marvel's Hispanic X-men are named Steve Johnson? The vast majority of Marvel's other ethnic & racial groups keep the most noticeable aspects of their race & ethnicity intact. Can you really same the same about its Black mutants?

Loa and Mondo are dark-skinned Asians, btw.

I don't know where you're going with the Steve Johnson analogy, though.

But the other scenarios you've presented really aren't that offensive IMO.

[Jackob]

Partly due to this thread and partly due to my own desires, I asked RISQUE-INDIFFERENT YET FABULOUS Jim @ Marvel this on the Bendis boards:

3) There has been a lot of talk on other boards about race and representation in a book that analogues real-life minorities. With so few mutants still existing, is it possible we will be able to see more international or ethnic American mutants in the future, even possibly as members of the X-Men?

1) No plans for Risque at the moment.

3- We don't create characters to fill a quota on race or sexuality, honestly, but I would challenge that there are more minority active X-Men (on all X-teams) than ever before. Dust, Nori, Anole, David, Bishop, Storm, Armor, Nezhno, Monet, Rockslide, Warpath, Rictor, and I'm sure I'm forgetting someone-- these all play a role in Messiah Complex and beyond. Not bad! As for future characters, their race and socio-economic background come from the story first, rather than filling any percieved void.

http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?t=127881&page=23

Rockslide? i thought he was italian. or is it a minority to be a psychic golem of himself?

[Askani's Flame]

I never said that there's a general skin color for Hispanics b/c I know that's not true. But Marvel hasn't done anything to completely detach the character's Hispanic-ness, either. Blacks aren't lucky enough to have noticeably ethnic names, so even if Thornn or Sunspot are completely mutated, once you hear their names, it clicks that they're Hispanic. Can you really say the same about Bling, Darwin, & Maggot. They're BINOs (Black in name only).

I disagree with you on Maggot. The only time he was not "black" was when his two maggots were feeding. Then he was blue. Also "Japheth" sounds ethnic to me, but then again I did some of my studies in South Africa so I may be slightly biased in my opinions.

[Pach!]

AND:

Darwin has a hispanic name because he's hispanic as well. So basically it's just Bling!

[Magneto X]

AND:

Darwin has a hispanic name because he's hispanic as well. So basically it's just Bling!

True. I like his name. It would be nice he someone would call him by it once and a while. And, you know, stop turning albino for no good reason.