X-Men from the Beginning

[MartinRedmond]

That's as far as I know, I stopped taking it seriously once Christ Claremont left.

[limerick]

:biggrin: So true, but there was no way Chris Claremont was going to let Wolverine go. Frankly, I'm surprised he let Kitty Pryde go after the Mutant Massacre, as she is a favorite of his. But let's face facts, after 12 years, Claremont felt he'd been writing the same main core group (Wolverine, Colossus, Storm, Nightcrawler) and wanted a change. Those changes began in 1986, specifically with the Mutant Massacre. The rest is history.
Of course,although he lets Kitty leave the X-men he very much retains control of her as a character and continues to write her.I feel Excalibur needed to have a few X-men to try and pull that audience with it.

[limerick]

While I agree that this issue isn't great, it is the very first X-Men back issue that I ever got. Thus, it is cherished.

Regarding the art, I think the colors have a lot to do with it as well. If I'm not mistaken, the last three issues that BWS did the art for were also colored by him. The colors in this issue were not bad at all, but when Windsor-Smith isn't doing everything, it just isn't the same.





Perhaps Malice has better luck possessing people when they don't know it's coming? With Dazzler, it seems Malice took control somewhat gradually (plus, Dazzler wasn't convinced Malice was real). This probably allowed Malice to get deeper into Dazzler's psyche, where she had access to memories and emotions that made for a sort of hybrid person. Rogue and Wolverine knew something was fishy, but they didn't know exactly what they were dealing with. This could have allowed Malice to take control of them more easily than she could with Storm, since they were taken by surprise. And since Malice had to act fast, maybe she didn't have time to really dig into their psyches, resulting in a more traditional possession. When she tried to take control of Storm, however, she wasn't successful because Storm knew what was coming, and was ready and able to defend herself. If Rogue or Wolverine had known what they were up against, it seems likely that they too could have resisted Malice's influence.

lol, did that make any sense at all??? Sorry if I'm rambling.:redface:
Some nice ideas Geoff but I still can't understand it completely-if Dazzler is very much under Malice's influence why does she show a special hostility towards Rogue.Malice shouldn't give two hoots about Rogue compared to other X-men but Dazzler would so the posessed persons personality seems to be functioning to some extent.That's the part which confusesme because Malice is clearly calling the shots so why does Dazzler react more to Rogue since Malice wouldn't?See where I'm coming from?

[Anodyne]

SPOILERRRRrrrrrrSSS
Sarah isn't found, but they get her kids back from Nanny in XF40 and then Sarah shows up at Jean's wedding in XM30.
afaik
Did she? The next time I recall seeing Sara was in the Phalanx Covenant crossover.
http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/issues/showquestion.asp?fldAuto=3435

That's as far as I know, I stopped taking it seriously once Christ Claremont left.
Do you really mean that? :biggrin:
Some nice ideas Geoff but I still can't understand it completely-if Dazzler is very much under Malice's influence why does she show a special hostility towards Rogue.Malice shouldn't give two hoots about Rogue compared to other X-men but Dazzler would so the posessed persons personality seems to be functioning to some extent.That's the part which confusesme because Malice is clearly calling the shots so why does Dazzler react more to Rogue since Malice wouldn't?See where I'm coming from?
Is it possible that Malice brings out the latent malicious feelings that are already in her host's subconscious? When Malice first possessed Polaris, she remarked that Lorna had more malice in her than she realized (or something like that). Dazzler harbored malice toward Rogue; so that was how her possession manifested

[david r]

I guess the Marauders are after Madelyne Pryor because of her connection with Scott Summers. Or....they wanted the baby. Doesn't the baby vanish here? Makes you wonder. As for Sara Grey, I am surprised Chris Claremont didn't jump at the chance to use her somehow. We are expected to believe sister Jean never attempts a search for Sara and her 2 children?

[david r]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.216.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #216

"Crucible"

It's THE MOST DANGEROUS GAME with mutants. Storm and a druggie on the run, hunted by 3 mutants. Ororo has no powers, and must do with her natural physical abilities and skills learned as a thief. Wolverine completely loses control of himself, in the forest!

For some reason, after sensing Jean Grey's scent in the last issue, Wolverine has gone off his rocker, and is roaming the New York forests, reverted to his prime animal self. He gets slammed while standing on the road by a truck, and the couple driving the vehicle are shocked by the collison. Lucky for them, the savage Wolverine runs off into the woods, and leaves the 2 alive, but stranded. Meanwhile, Storm and a young woman named Priscilla are on the run in that same forest. They are being chased by speedster Super Sabre, Stonewall and Crimson Commando. All are World War II veterans who now use their latent mutant powers to hunt down and exterminate criminals. They are hunting down Ororo and Priscilla. Ororo is a match for them, secreting traps to behead Super Sabre. But Ororo's inner desire to never kill another human being ultimately saves Sabre from getting killed. Storm just can't do it.

Priscilla turns out to be the real villain here. She mumbles to herself, and proves she truly is a scum and a criminal. Once Ororo gets the jump on Sabre, surprising him from behind, Priscilla unleashes a rock slide down on both of them. Priscilla thinks Ororo will turn her in because of her druggie past. Priscilla then meets up with the stranded couple (with the smashed truck). Priscilla grabs their gun and shoots the pair of them. Killing the poor couple. Priscilla then speeds off in the damaged truck. Wolverine watches this whole affair, but still in his bestial state, does not intervene. Logan could have saved the couple. Ultimately, Ororo is not killed in the rockslide (thuogh Super Sabre's fate is left in doubt.) Ororo catches up with the twisted Priscilla and also ambushes Stonewall by a lake. As Ororo saves Stonewall's life from sinking into quicksand (Ororo will NOT KILL) the ungrateful Priscilla almost beans Ororo in the head with a boulder. Crimson Commando appears and dives a dagger straight into Priscilla's chest. Down she goes dead. Crimson prepares to murder Storm as well, when Wolverine appears. Logan has regained his senses, and stop Crimson from his murder. Ororo then takes on Crimson Commando, in hand to hand combat. Ororo is enraged over what's happened, and very nearly slices Crimson's throat with the blade. But she just can't quite do it!

Storm knows she should probably murder Crimson Commando, but realizes to do so, will make her no better than them. And tonight, she was BETTER than them. Stonewall and Crimson Commando are handed over to the authorities. The final page shows Wolverine and Storm in a car, watching the press interview the local police about the 2 mutants. Storm says she was prepared to kill them all. Ororo says the job is theirs to stop evil mutants, but also protect the weak, the innocent, the helpless. For the first time ever, Ororo says she's tired of fighting villains on their terms. She wants to preemptively strike them first BEFORE the villains strike.

Storm says, "If the Marauders--and filth like them--desire war, I say further we bring it to THEIR doorstep, rather than forever fighting on our own."
Wolverine: "I'm not sure I'm up to it anymore."
Storm: "Do we let them rule us? Do we crawl into a hole and hide until our bodies follow our spirits into oblivion? Or do we accept our mistakes and try to learn from them?"
Wolverine: "Have you considered the ramifications of all this?! These hunters rationalized what they did behind the noblest of reasons. We're on that same road, Storm. Cruisin' along that same abyss. we got lucky last night, don't count on it ever again. If we live an' fight by those hunters' rules, how do we keep from becoming like them? Ororo, you told the Commando you were "better"--how do we stay that way?!?"

My thoughts: This was a nice, more personal story. After the big Mutant Massacre with hundreds of mutants involved, this two-parter was a more close and intimate tale. Storm and Wolverine in a deadly game of cat-and-mouse with three disillusioned mutants from WWII. One thing I really liked about #216 was how it displayed Ororo's physical skills. Even without her awesome wind powers, Storm is deadly and truly shows she is a weapon of death all on her own. This adventure actually may have showcased how capable she is WITHOUT her powers more than any other. As for Logan, I didn't quite get why he went completely nuts here in the forest. Wolverine cannot trust his senses (after the Malice malaise) and this has shook him to such an extent he loses himself? I didn't feel this quite made sense. Priscilla's shooting of the innocent couple on the roadside was disturbing and shocking. I think the 3 baddies here (Super Sabre, Stonewall and Crimson Commando) could be heroes, if their paths had gone a different way. Was Crimson Commando meant to resemble Magneto so much? The final page of #216 leaves a lot to ponder. Ororo wants to preemptively strike back at the opposition first. "Get them before they get us". This makes sense after the bloody Mutant Massacre. But Wolverine's doubts make sense also. Are the X-Men heading down the wrong road??

[worstblogever]

I guess the Marauders are after Madelyne Pryor because of her connection with Scott Summers. Or....they wanted the baby. Doesn't the baby vanish here? Makes you wonder. As for Sara Grey, I am surprised Chris Claremont didn't jump at the chance to use her somehow. We are expected to believe sister Jean never attempts a search for Sara and her 2 children?

I really think Sara Grey may have been some kind of red herring explanation for Madelyne, especially with Sara's unexplained "absences".

As far as issue #216 goes, Priscilla sure shows us she's amoral fast, doesn't she? She makes a great foil for Storm, who's trying to save lives, even of those who would kill her. It's a great tale for her, holding her own, even though she's still without her powers.

And you know we haven't heard the last of Super Sabre, Crimson Commando, or Stonewall (who oddly, by sinking in quicksand, was almost taken down the same way Juggernaut was in concrete by Spider-Man. Hmm...).

Shame about Logan's berzerker rage, here, and the timing. At least he comes out of it to make himself useful. But was this the start of an era where that plot device really started to come out? It's one thing to write Logan wanting to lay a beatdown, and having to be held back... but was this the first bout of "rage epilepsy with blackouts aka berzerker rage"?

[limerick]

Thoughts on #215:(sorry for falling behind)

--I'm surprised there is no communication with Kitty via Psylocke before they depart to Muir Isle.A farewell to Storm would have seemed in order.Surely shecan communicate via telepathy.It would have been nice to have her say goodbye.She is fully concious after all.
--I wonder(without giving too much away)if Claremont had intended to sendColossus off to adventures with Kitty and Nightcrawler but changed his mind because of upcoming events involving Illyana and because the X-men would have been left without a powerhouse(Rogue doesn't quite count)
--Check out page 6--Dazz is fit!!!!!!!

[MartinRedmond]

Storm's a big dummy for sparing the 3 old soldiers. Luckily, the police arrested them. I loved Pris turning on Storm as well. >:D

[limerick]

Thoughts on #216:

--Storm faces some moral dilemmas imposed by her situation.Back in those days death really did mean something.If she decapitated the SUPER SABRE it was for good.Her X-men values kick in and she leaves him live.But the very fact she was contemplating it shows a new darkness to the X-men.This would be unthinkable 30 issues ago.The Mutant Massacre has really changed things,it would seem.
--I think Super Sabre may be Irish.He seems to be effecting some sort of accent and on page 11 uses the word,"idjit" which I think should actually be spelled eejit.It's the Irish term for an idiot

[CallMeGeoff]

Some nice ideas Geoff but I still can't understand it completely-if Dazzler is very much under Malice's influence why does she show a special hostility towards Rogue.Malice shouldn't give two hoots about Rogue compared to other X-men but Dazzler would so the posessed persons personality seems to be functioning to some extent.That's the part which confusesme because Malice is clearly calling the shots so why does Dazzler react more to Rogue since Malice wouldn't?See where I'm coming from?

Oh, absolutely. It certainly isn't explained very well. What I was getting at (or trying to, anyway) is that perhaps the nature in which Malice possessed Dazzler allowed for Malice to really plant herself into Dazzler's psyche. We've seen Malice slowly taking more control over Dazzler for the last couple issues, so maybe this gradual possession causes both of their minds to blend a little bit more, rather than a standard take-over, like with Rogue and Wolverine.

Sorry, I was trying to make two points in one convoluted paragraph before. This may or may not make more sense. :smile:

Is it possible that Malice brings out the latent malicious feelings that are already in her host's subconscious? When Malice first possessed Polaris, she remarked that Lorna had more malice in her than she realized (or something like that). Dazzler harbored malice toward Rogue; so that was how her possession manifested

This makes sense, and is a lot easier to explain than what I was trying to say.

I guess the Marauders are after Madelyne Pryor because of her connection with Scott Summers. Or....they wanted the baby. Doesn't the baby vanish here? Makes you wonder. As for Sara Grey, I am surprised Chris Claremont didn't jump at the chance to use her somehow. We are expected to believe sister Jean never attempts a search for Sara and her 2 children?

I believe it is brought up in X-Factor eventually, but "brought up" and "resolved" are two completely different things. I also believe Anodyne is correct, and the Phalanx Covenant is the next time we see Sara Grey.

Now, onto issue 216... I like this part of the story better than the first part. The "Most Dangerous Game"-style manhunt (or womanhunt) is usually a pretty exciting story. Priscilla's murders are cold-blooded. To my knowledge, it isn't terribly often in superhero comics back then for innocents to die like this, but Claremont pulls n punches. This isn't the first time he's killed off poor regular folks (bless their hearts), and it won't be the last!

[jmc247]

Is it possible that Malice brings out the latent malicious feelings that are already in her host's subconscious? When Malice first possessed Polaris, she remarked that Lorna had more malice in her than she realized (or something like that).


Here is what he said

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f132/jmc247/UncannyX-Men239-04-1.jpg

[david r]

Worstblogever, I really wonder about Sara Grey. Why her disappearance is never explained from X-Factor #12. It seems odd she disappears, just as Madelyne Pryor resurfaces. On the other hand, she vanishes just as the Marauders are making their move. Could there be a connection there? Could the Marauders master want a Grey sister?

You're right about Priscilla. What a scumbag. I think she deserved what she got.

Limerick, About Kitty, I only hope she knew Storm would be joining them on Muir Island. And thus, no goodbye was needed. Saying a "Farewell" like that might have meant they'd never see each other again (Kitty's death.) Kitty couldn't face that. As for Colossus, I *think* I read Colossus originally was intended to join Excalibur. But this was changed, for the reasons you stated. :smile:

I agree totally that the Mutant Massacre has changed the X-Men. I like how it has all these repercussions. I never realized how many actually until reading the story like this. #1 on that list now is Storm contemplating a preemptive, "attack first" policy against the X-Men's enemies. This is first mentioned in UXM #216 and you can see Wolverine's unease about it. Actually, speaking of Logan, I'm surprised how shaken up he's become since the MM. Logan seems to have lost his faith a bit.

That would be cool if Super Sabre was Irish. Is there any way to confirm this?

CallMeGeoff, Yes, that poor human couple got hurt badly, and I was shocked by their shooting. Wrong place, wrong time. It's interesting how Claremont portrays Priscilla in a more evil way, than Super Sabre or Stonewall. Especially Stonewall who shows some mercy and compassion for the victims. (PS, I like your theory on Malice and Dazzler. I think you have the correct idea here.) :smile:

[limerick]

Worstblogever, I really wonder about Sara Grey. Why her disappearance is never explained from X-Factor #12. It seems odd she disappears, just as Madelyne Pryor resurfaces. On the other hand, she vanishes just as the Marauders are making their move. Could there be a connection there? Could the Marauders master want a Grey sister?

You're right about Priscilla. What a scumbag. I think she deserved what she got.

Limerick, About Kitty, I only hope she knew Storm would be joining them on Muir Island. And thus, no goodbye was needed. Saying a "Farewell" like that might have meant they'd never see each other again (Kitty's death.) Kitty couldn't face that. As for Colossus, I *think* I read Colossus originally was intended to join Excalibur. But this was changed, for the reasons you stated. :smile:

I agree totally that the Mutant Massacre has changed the X-Men. I like how it has all these repercussions. I never realized how many actually until reading the story like this. #1 on that list now is Storm contemplating a preemptive, "attack first" policy against the X-Men's enemies. This is first mentioned in UXM #216 and you can see Wolverine's unease about it. Actually, speaking of Logan, I'm surprised how shaken up he's become since the MM. Logan seems to have lost his faith a bit.

That would be cool if Super Sabre was Irish. Is there any way to confirm this?

CallMeGeoff, Yes, that poor human couple got hurt badly, and I was shocked by their shooting. Wrong place, wrong time. It's interesting how Claremont portrays Priscilla in a more evil way, than Super Sabre or Stonewall. Especially Stonewall who shows some mercy and compassion for the victims. (PS, I like your theory on Malice and Dazzler. I think you have the correct idea here.) :smile:
Re:Kitty send-off

--I just felt Claremont could have made more of an effort to send Kitty off in style as he knew to all intents and purposes this was the end of the line for her as a member of the X-men.So I guess I wasn't just looking for the characters interacting because as you say every conversation doesn't always have to be "on-screen" .But I felt Kitty deserved a better send-off and I thought he would have felt that way too.:frown: .Boo hoo!.Poor Kitty.

Re:Priscilla

--God,she is scum.It's easy for heroes to protect "good" people but it really tests their believes to have to help pondlife like that.

[limerick]

David ,I have been just looking back through this thread at some of the issues I missed--Damn,I missed some quality analysis!I might have to try and read back through the entire thread like Geoff did.Many thanks again for youe continuing sterling work.This thread stands as a definitive work on the X-men with some really great input from some very knowledgable people on the subject such as yourself ,DDM,WBE and Darkchylde among many others---a credit to you all!

[Darkchylde]

Wow, I've been out of the loop lately; I hadn't realized David R. reviewed issue 216 already. It's hard to believe that one of the new X-Men team's greatest challenges is only 9 or so issues away. (I don't want to spoil the plot for David R.)

Incidentally, that same challenge awaiting the X-Men, which brings the team into conflict with a powerful adversary, has lasting ramifications for the New Mutants. There's some good stuff 'round the bend, and I can't wait until you get there, David R.

[david r]

Thank you for the kind words, Limerick and Darkchylde. I actually do feel a sense of accomplishent having done a review/summary of over 200 issues of Uncanny X-Men. It has been hard work sometimes, but fun all of the time. Getting feedback and insight from everyone has made this a deeper experience than I thought it would.

And there's still a lot of exciting stuff coming. Sometimes when I feel down at work, I'll think about the cool stories coming soon, and that livens me right up. One of those adventures is just 9 issues away! :smile:

[wolvie616]

Thank you for the kind words, Limerick and Darkchylde. I actually do feel a sense of accomplishent having done a review/summary of over 200 issues of Uncanny X-Men. It has been hard work sometimes, but fun all of the time. Getting feedback and insight from everyone has made this a deeper experience than I thought it would.

And there's still a lot of exciting stuff coming. Sometimes when I feel down at work, I'll think about the cool stories coming soon, and that livens me right up. One of those adventures is just 9 issues away! :smile:

is david r a soul man?:confused:

and i havent commented much, but it is truly a GLORIOUS thing to do

[Valjean999]

[QUOTE=limerick;8265228]Re:Kitty send-off

--I just felt Claremont could have made more of an effort to send Kitty off in style as he knew to all intents and purposes this was the end of the line for her as a member of the X-men.So I guess I wasn't just looking for the characters interacting because as you say every conversation doesn't always have to be "on-screen" .But I felt Kitty deserved a better send-off and I thought he would have felt that way too.:frown: .Boo hoo!.Poor Kitty.
QUOTE]

See the "X-Men vs The Fantastic Four" series for the next part of the Kitty story. By my estimate, it takes place inbetween # 219 and # 220

[creaky]

Re:Kitty send-off

--I just felt Claremont could have made more of an effort to send Kitty off in style as he knew to all intents and purposes this was the end of the line for her as a member of the X-men.So I guess I wasn't just looking for the characters interacting because as you say every conversation doesn't always have to be "on-screen" .But I felt Kitty deserved a better send-off and I thought he would have felt that way too.:frown: .Boo hoo!.Poor Kitty.

Kitty got far better treatment than the other send-offs. If Colossus can be called a send-off - I don't recall the details of what happened to him after MM.

[limerick]

Kitty got far better treatment than the other send-offs. If Colossus can be called a send-off - I don't recall the details of what happened to him after MM.
You're right!I had forgotten about Nightcrawler.Sorry about that!But Colossus isn't going anywhere-well not for long anyway.

[limerick]

[QUOTE=limerick;8265228]Re:Kitty send-off

--I just felt Claremont could have made more of an effort to send Kitty off in style as he knew to all intents and purposes this was the end of the line for her as a member of the X-men.So I guess I wasn't just looking for the characters interacting because as you say every conversation doesn't always have to be "on-screen" .But I felt Kitty deserved a better send-off and I thought he would have felt that way too.:frown: .Boo hoo!.Poor Kitty.
QUOTE]

See the "X-Men vs The Fantastic Four" series for the next part of the Kitty story. By my estimate, it takes place inbetween # 219 and # 220
FF vs. X-men is a good read and does include Kitty(we actually get to hear how she feels about her predicament)but I've always thought that story should have been told in Uncanny(It could have been reworked slightly to drop the FF if required)as it had a major outcome on one of the X-book characters.I don't think important events affecting major characters should take place out of the main title(i.e. in minis or annuals.

Thanks for the drop on where the mini occurs-we were debating this a while ago as to the exact location of it and the Vs. Avengers mini which was published almost similtaneously if I remember rightly.

ANY INFORMATION ON MINI-SERIES CHRONOLOGY GREATLY APPRECIATED BTW.SAVES TIME ON PUBLISHING DATE RESEARCH ETC.

[david r]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/pages/97792366288.216.P1.GIF

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/pages/97792366288.216.P3.GIF

Just as animals use enhanced senses to help them, Wolverine does so as well. You take that away from him, make him unsure of his mutant senses, and he's lost. As the 2 pages above from Uncanny X-Men #216 eloquently show.

[CallMeGeoff]

See the "X-Men vs The Fantastic Four" series for the next part of the Kitty story. By my estimate, it takes place inbetween # 219 and # 220

Incidentally, I think Annual #11 takes place between 219 and 220 as well. It didn't come out until around the same time as 222 or 223 (can't remember which), but it doesn't fit in there story-wise. Just offering that up.

I've never read X-Men vs. The Fantastic Four. I'm going to try to track that down!

[Icegod]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.202.GIF
.

So I am a little behind, but I plan on posting in this thread more often. This was my first comic book ever. I was six years old had no idea what was going on and didn't figure out who the Beyonder was till like 5 years later. Didn't matter, Sentinels, Wolverine, Magneto an Nightcrawler. I was hooked. Made my parents get me a subscription shortly thereafter. Brings back good memories I loved this run and stayed with the X-Men for the next decade.

[Valjean999]

[QUOTE=Valjean999;8269458]
FF vs. X-men is a good read and does include Kitty(we actually get to hear how she feels about her predicament)but I've always thought that story should have been told in Uncanny(It could have been reworked slightly to drop the FF if required)as it had a major outcome on one of the X-book characters.I don't think important events affecting major characters should take place out of the main title(i.e. in minis or annuals.

Thanks for the drop on where the mini occurs-we were debating this a while ago as to the exact location of it and the Vs. Avengers mini which was published almost similtaneously if I remember rightly.

ANY INFORMATION ON MINI-SERIES CHRONOLOGY GREATLY APPRECIATED BTW.SAVES TIME ON PUBLISHING DATE RESEARCH ETC.

It WAS, and still is, a great read. And I agree that it should have been part of the main series. But, I suppose, since it gave (almost) equal time to the FF, that it didnt really belong in either of there respective series? Just a guess, on my part.

I am looking forward to the discussions when these issues come up!

[limerick]

Incidentally, I think Annual #11 takes place between 219 and 220 as well. It didn't come out until around the same time as 222 or 223 (can't remember which), but it doesn't fit in there story-wise. Just offering that up.

I've never read X-Men vs. The Fantastic Four. I'm going to try to track that down!
Nice one Geoff.Annual #11 was definitely out of synch with its publication date but I had never really thought about exactly where it fits in before.Good to know that.

[david r]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.217.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #217

"Folly's Gambit"

Dazzler enjoys the spotlight in this one, as the X-Men team call Muir Island their temporary home. I've noticed since #200, the X-Men are spending less time at the Mansion, and doing more travelling. Starting with San Francisco. After the Mutant Massacre, the mutants feel they need to hide out. New faces are also here. It's Alison Blaire's turn.

Moira MacTaggert's Mutant Research Facility is the current home to the ever-changing X-Men. Psylocke, Dazzler, Rogue, Callisto and Longshot have arrived here, along with the wounded. Morlocks continue to cling to life, in the hospital ward. Meanwhile, the new X-Men use the harsh, and snowy Muir Isle landscape to train themselves. Sean Cassidy aka Banshee watches over these new recruits. #217 begins with 1 such routine: as Elizabeth "Betsy" Braddock is running along the high coastline, chased by her teammates. Her psychic powers are formidable, and cause havok for the X-Men. Dazzler's blinding, but beautiful, light powers offer resistance, but cannot hinder Psylocke. Ultimately, Rogue, gets the better of Betsy. They soon adjourn to the main building on Muir Island for breakfast. Or what Longshot calls "dead, burned animal flesh--and unborn baby birds--YUM!" Banshee lets them know they need to work harder at becoming a team, a unit that works well together, and not just as individual mutated heroes. They're trying.

In the exercise room, Callisto and Dazzler are exercising together. Callisto criticizes Alison's "weak physique" and Dazzler becomes enraged. So enraged she walks away (with lights popping all around her) and decides to leave the island altogether. Possibly leave the X-Men behind too. The world is a dangerous place, and all Dazzler really wants to do is sing. And make people happy. Does she really want to be a part of this mutant act? Alison finds a small boat and rides away from Muir Island. She makes her way along the northern Scottish coast, to the fishing port of Ullapool. The dispirited Dazzler, wearing a jacket to hide her costume, walks along the Scottish humans, and finds solace in a pub named Black Ned's. Alison enters and soon is dancing. The bagpipe music an exotic allure Alison is not used to. Alison is never lacking for a male partner. And enjoys herself immensely, even taking the stage and singing her heart out.

Alas, the festivities end, and Alison finds herself with a kilt-wearing man named Conal, out on the misty filled street. A car goes whizzing by and nearly hits Alison in the night. Alison recognizes the driver--- It's Cain Marko! The JUGGERNAUT! Alison leaves Conal behind and steals a motorbike. She drives and locates Juggernaut! Marko is ready to rumble......until he recognizes Dazzler!! Juggs is Dazzler's #1 fan!! Cain has all her records and has seen her in concert, and adores the pop music star! But Dazzler isn't moved by his sentiments, knowing Cain is here for "a job." That can't be good, and Dazzler uses her enhanced light gymnastics to blind and confuse Juggernaut. Juggs chases her across the gorgeous, and quiet, Scottish lands. Up over small hills and along barely worn footpaths, Dazzler always barely ahead of her advancing nemesis. Juggs doesn't want to hurt Alison, he adores her. But he wants to teach her a small lesson in manners. Dazzler makes her stand on a low-lying hill, and cuts loose with all her lights that her strength can muster. It's not enough. Juggernaut is unphased, and stands before her. Cain however, is shocked when Alison collapses in her arms. Juggernauts yells, "I worshipped her! I killed her!"

My thoughts: This was a good issue, not a great issue. It does seem the X-Men are becoming more a globe-trotting troupe, and not confined to the Mansion anymore. Artist Jackson Guice draws the Scottish landscape very well. The white snowy fields and hills of Scotland and Muir Island are well illustrated graphically here. This adventure looks into Dazzler's head more than ever before in this series. Is Chris Claremont making up for lost time with Alison? I like how these newer recruits are all struggling with this change. Joining the X-Men, under horrible circumstances, is not easy for any of them. And presently they are without their leaders, Storm and Wolverine. Muir Isle seems the best place for them, and I liked seeing Banshee again. Sean Cassidy is a good mentor in his own right. As for Juggernaut, I liked the novelty of him being a Dazzler fan. And so Cain is conflicted in how to "spank" Dazzler for her transgression against him. The chase across the Scottish countryside was enjoyable.

[david r]

which brings the team into conflict with a powerful adversary

:biggrin: :biggrin: You tease!!

[limerick]

Thoughts on #217:

--I used to love that panel that gave the current roster on the top left hand side of the cover.It used to bug me when they didn't update it as the team changed.Still no sign of Pyslocke,Longshot or Dazzler on the cover roster here.GRRRRR!
--NICE Walt Sim. cover.But The juggernaught can forget about any romance if the scale is correct here .Dazz isn't much bigger than one of his fingers!Slight exaggeration,I think.
--It was important to give the new members an issue to themselves early on to reintroduce them to new readers.Now it's Ali's turn.
--There's an editors note on page 2 about The F.F. VS. The X-men mini so we can assume it occurs about here.
--Banshee seems to be getting younger as time passes!he appears younger here than in his time with the X-men and appears younger again in his time with Gen X.That's Marvel time for you!
Batteries low in laptop--signing off.

[david r]

--I used to love that panel that gave the current roster on the top left hand side of the cover.It used to bug me when they didn't update it as the team changed.Still no sign of Pyslocke,Longshot or Dazzler on the cover roster here.GRRRRR!

I like those old-time panels too. I noticed Cyclops stayed on it way past his departure in UXM #201.

But The juggernaught can forget about any romance if the scale is correct here .Dazz isn't much bigger than one of his fingers!Slight exaggeration,I think.

A nice cover, but yeah the proportions of the two are way off.

--There's an editors note on page 2 about The F.F. VS. The X-men mini so we can assume it occurs about here.

Thanks guys for the help on the FF v. X-Men mini. As well as Annual 11.

I also liked the use of Dazzler's powers here. How her lights shine around her a lot, which I wasn't aware they worked that way. Plus, they can hypnotize someone, and absorb sound around Alison. Who knew light could be used in such innovative fashions?

[SayOcean]

i kinda wish this is what uncanny was all about, anew status quo for the xmen something totally different, i mean who has ever heard of these mutants, much less consider them the xmen, yet they worked it wasnt just the same tired ass mutants as before....this seems like a good issue

[worstblogever]

#217 Thoughts-

The team training outdoors, due to being away from the Danger Room was different, and I like it. Especially how well Psylocke holds her own training the team.

But Banshee's right, this group has never worked together, and needs to learn how to do so if they stand any chance in real combat with foes. It's exciting, for me, to consider the possibility of Sean back on the team, perhaps even leading it in some capacity, with Storm still back in the states. But typically, in X-history, Banshee gets shuffled to the background when moments like this arise. It's a real pity.

Dazzler's insecurity complex is surprising for someone who is brave enough to get before an audience and sing, and yet, she's plague with doubts about her powers so she overcompensates and tries to prove she can hold her own when Callisto, of all people, tries to mess with her. But the Juggernaut? Solo? Alison Blaire, what were you thinking?

Cain's a fan of DivaSparkle Dazz. I mean, how cool is that? I love villains who love Dazzler. It seems so out of place, and yet, irreverent the number of Marvel characters who count themselves as her fans. This one's most surprising, given Juggernaut's distaste of mutants, the X-Men in particular.

[david r]

SayOcean, the book is "mutating" at this time. Seeing new faces is welcome, and what X-MEN is all about really. Though fans of Kurt, Peter and Kitty were probably not happy at the time.

WBE, I agree with you about Banshee. He's proven his worth as a leader, going as far back as the battle with Juggernaut/Black Tom Cassidy in Ireland. I wished writers had explored this side of him more. Sean has so much potential.

This picture may be premature, but it's a great one:

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/thumb/3/35/X-Men_%28by_James_Jean%29_1.jpg/800px-X-Men_%28by_James_Jean%29_1.jpg

[limerick]

More on #217:


--WBE,I'm a huge fan of Banshees as well and he fits in well as leader/supervisor.However to treat Rogue the same as rookies Longshot,Psylocke and Dazz is frankly insulting to her.She's more than earned her stripes as an X-man and should be well capable of taking training duties.That Storm didn't leave her in charge shouls wrankle a little.
--Longshot:"DEAD,BURNED ANIMAL FLESH........AND UNBORN BABY BIRDS....YUM!"Lol.his description would put you off fried breakfasts for life!
--Bet Conal is cursing the Juggernaut---I think he was going to get lucky there!Darn!(page 14)
--RE your question,David.As far as I can remember Ali's power is derived from converting sound energy to light energy so she can absorb all sound from her surrounding area if she wanted to.
--BTW,what lame excuse was there for the Juggernaut being on a remote part of Scotland.I know he spoke of "being late for a job" but this is one of those outrageous coincidences(rivalling Corsair being Scotts father and them bumping into each other).

[limerick]

A Dave Cockrum page, anyone know where this is from?

http://www.nightscrawlers.com/gallery/albums/Artists/Dave_Cockrum/Cockrum_X-Men/563.jpg
David,don't know if you ever got an answer to this one?

It's incredibly similar to a sequence in the John Bolton drawn extra story of Classic X-men #31.the main issue reprinted is #125 which fits in with DDM's thought at the time that it corresponded to the time period #118-#125.Hope that's of some help.It has me very curious!

[david r]

--Bet Conal is cursing the Juggernaut---I think he was going to get lucky there!Darn!(page 14)

:biggrin: I think you may be right. I suspect Conal will find a way to make Juggs pay.

--RE your question,David.As far as I can remember Ali's power is derived from converting sound energy to light energy so she can absorb all sound from her surrounding area if she wanted to.

Thanks for that, Limerick. I knew I should have started that Dazzler from the Beginning thread I once considered. :cool:

--BTW,what lame excuse was there for the Juggernaut being on a remote part of Scotland.I know he spoke of "being late for a job" but this is one of those outrageous coincidences

Too true, but these are funny books, so outrageous coincidences have to go with the flow. And thank you an explanation on that mystery Dave Cockrum page. I recall I did eventually figure out where it came from............but have since forgotten! I think it was in a Xavier flashback moment! But cheers for the help, my friend. :smile:

[david r]

Shooter and Claremont:

Uncanny X-Men #217 was released in January 1987, the same month Marvel Comics editor-in-chief Jim Shooter was fired from the company. Shooter had ran Marvel for about 9 years, and remains a hot topic. Jim's "people skills" are legendary, with many accounts from contemporaries like John Byrne and Marv Wolfman dragging Shooter thru the mud. However, most fans consider his reign a golden age at Marvel, rivaled only by the legendary 1960s work by Stan, Jack and Ditko.

Why am I bringing this up? Well, X-Men writer Chris Claremont had a rather shaky relationship with Jim Shooter. From what I've read and researched, Shooter pretty much left Claremont alone to handle the X-Men and X-Office. There were 2 occasions where Shooter intervened in a huge way: both dealing with Jean Grey. One during the Dark Phoenix Saga, and the other in resurrecting Jean for X-Factor. Claremont and Shooter fought vigorously over these decisions, with Shooter winning on both counts. We X-fans still debate whether Jim Shooter's decisions on Jean Grey were the right ones, or badly damaged Jean Grey and the X-Men.

The blood wasn't necessarily bad between them, but I've read that when Claremont learned of Jim Shooter's sacking by then-President James Galton, Claremont posted this message on Marvel's inner intranet:

DING-DONG THE WITCH IS DEAD!
WICKED WITCH! WICKED WITCH!!
DING DONG THE WICKED WITCH IS DEAD!

I don't mean to disparage Chris Claremont here, and don't get me wrong. But I think CC was letting years of pent-up tension out. I am not 100% sure this incident occured, but many Marvel people were definitely relieved when Shooter left the company in 1987. I find it interesting that Claremont and Jim Shooter eventually mended their differences (which CC has a history of doing) and Claremont even worked for Shooter's short-lived 1990s company, Defiant Comics. And Claremont was there for the launching party for Shooter's next comics venture, Broadway Comics. So I think this story had a happy ending.

[worstblogever]

I could believe that was dialogue written by Claremont.

[Valjean999]

The XM vs The FF must occur after 219, because of a certain person who is part of that mini, but does not join the team until 219

[MartinRedmond]

Speaking of Dave Cockrum, if you liked him, I reccomend his Futurians graphic novels, there's two of them. He inks them himself and it looks way better than his X-Men work. They're his own characters so the designs are pretty similar to his previous ones, kind of 1970s sci-fi japanime inspired.

[CallMeGeoff]

217 is pretty good. It's great that Juggernaut is a fan of Dazzler. Can you imagine him in a discotheque??? I smell a maxi-series! :biggrin:

But seriously, it'll a pleasure re-reading these next several issues. I haven't read them in forever, and I barely remember what happens between now and the Fall of Mutants. I'm looking forward to it. This isn't really an era (if you can call it an "era") of X-Men that is often referenced. It'll be cool to hear everybody's thoughts.

[limerick]

217 is pretty good. It's great that Juggernaut is a fan of Dazzler. Can you imagine him in a discotheque??? I smell a maxi-series! :biggrin:

But seriously, it'll a pleasure re-reading these next several issues. I haven't read them in forever, and I barely remember what happens between now and the Fall of Mutants. I'm looking forward to it. This isn't really an era (if you can call it an "era") of X-Men that is often referenced. It'll be cool to hear everybody's thoughts.
You're right ,Geoff.The change in location,team line-up and artist means you can't pin this down as a particular "era".From now on it shall be referred to as:

"THE CHANGING LOCATION,CHANGING LINE-UP,CHANGING ARTIST,(CLAREMONT SCRIPTED),MID-LATE 80'S" ERA.

No abbreviations please.

[CallMeGeoff]

You're right ,Geoff.The change in location,team line-up and artist means you can't pin this down as a particular "era".From now on it shall be referred to as:

"THE CHANGING LOCATION,CHANGING LINE-UP,CHANGING ARTIST,(CLAREMONT SCRIPTED),MID-LATE 80'S" ERA.

No abbreviations please.

lol, well I look forward to reading the rest of The Changing Location, Changing Line-Up, Changing Artist, (Claremont Scripted), Mid-Late 80's Era again. I wonder if Marvel has any plans to release a Changing Location, Changing Line-Up, Changing Artist, (Claremont Scripted), Mid-Late 80's Era TPB any time soon. Does anyone else have any thoughts on The Changing Location, Changing Line-Up, Changing Artist, (Claremont Scripted), Mid-Late 80's Era?

Okay, sorry. I'm done. :biggrin:

[Nevets F]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.217.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #217

"Folly's Gambit"

Dazzler enjoys the spotlight in this one, as the X-Men team call Muir Island their temporary home. I've noticed since #200, the X-Men are spending less time at the Mansion, and doing more travelling. Starting with San Francisco. After the Mutant Massacre, the mutants feel they need to hide out. New faces are also here. It's Alison Blaire's turn.

Moira MacTaggert's Mutant Research Facility is the current home to the ever-changing X-Men. Psylocke, Dazzler, Rogue, Callisto and Longshot have arrived here, along with the wounded. Morlocks continue to cling to life, in the hospital ward. Meanwhile, the new X-Men use the harsh, and snowy Muir Isle landscape to train themselves. Sean Cassidy aka Banshee watches over these new recruits. #217 begins with 1 such routine: as Elizabeth "Betsy" Braddock is running along the high coastline, chased by her teammates. Her psychic powers are formidable, and cause havok for the X-Men. Dazzler's blinding, but beautiful, light powers offer resistance, but cannot hinder Psylocke. Ultimately, Rogue, gets the better of Betsy. They soon adjourn to the main building on Muir Island for breakfast. Or what Longshot calls "dead, burned animal flesh--and unborn baby birds--YUM!" Banshee lets them know they need to work harder at becoming a team, a unit that works well together, and not just as individual mutated heroes. They're trying.

In the exercise room, Callisto and Dazzler are exercising together. Callisto criticizes Alison's "weak physique" and Dazzler becomes enraged. So enraged she walks away (with lights popping all around her) and decides to leave the island altogether. Possibly leave the X-Men behind too. The world is a dangerous place, and all Dazzler really wants to do is sing. And make people happy. Does she really want to be a part of this mutant act? Alison finds a small boat and rides away from Muir Island. She makes her way along the northern Scottish coast, to the fishing port of Ullapool. The dispirited Dazzler, wearing a jacket to hide her costume, walks along the Scottish humans, and finds solace in a pub named Black Ned's. Alison enters and soon is dancing. The bagpipe music an exotic allure Alison is not used to. Alison is never lacking for a male partner. And enjoys herself immensely, even taking the stage and singing her heart out.

Alas, the festivities end, and Alison finds herself with a kilt-wearing man named Conal, out on the misty filled street. A car goes whizzing by and nearly hits Alison in the night. Alison recognizes the driver--- It's Cain Marko! The JUGGERNAUT! Alison leaves Conal behind and steals a motorbike. She drives and locates Juggernaut! Marko is ready to rumble......until he recognizes Dazzler!! Juggs is Dazzler's #1 fan!! Cain has all her records and has seen her in concert, and adores the pop music star! But Dazzler isn't moved by his sentiments, knowing Cain is here for "a job." That can't be good, and Dazzler uses her enhanced light gymnastics to blind and confuse Juggernaut. Juggs chases her across the gorgeous, and quiet, Scottish lands. Up over small hills and along barely worn footpaths, Dazzler always barely ahead of her advancing nemesis. Juggs doesn't want to hurt Alison, he adores her. But he wants to teach her a small lesson in manners. Dazzler makes her stand on a low-lying hill, and cuts loose with all her lights that her strength can muster. It's not enough. Juggernaut is unphased, and stands before her. Cain however, is shocked when Alison collapses in her arms. Juggernauts yells, "I worshipped her! I killed her!"

My thoughts: This was a good issue, not a great issue. It does seem the X-Men are becoming more a globe-trotting troupe, and not confined to the Mansion anymore. Artist Jackson Guice draws the Scottish landscape very well. The white snowy fields and hills of Scotland and Muir Island are well illustrated graphically here. This adventure looks into Dazzler's head more than ever before in this series. Is Chris Claremont making up for lost time with Alison? I like how these newer recruits are all struggling with this change. Joining the X-Men, under horrible circumstances, is not easy for any of them. And presently they are without their leaders, Storm and Wolverine. Muir Isle seems the best place for them, and I liked seeing Banshee again. Sean Cassidy is a good mentor in his own right. As for Juggernaut, I liked the novelty of him being a Dazzler fan. And so Cain is conflicted in how to "spank" Dazzler for her transgression against him. The chase across the Scottish countryside was enjoyable.

I also loved this issue! It was oneof my early favorites when I first got into comics. I love seeing all the new X-Men get the spotlight, I loved the next issue as well.

More on #217:
--Longshot:"DEAD,BURNED ANIMAL FLESH........AND UNBORN BABY BIRDS....YUM!"Lol.his description would put you off fried breakfasts for life!


I stole this comment and used it for years as a kid.

[david r]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.218.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #218

"Charge of the Light Brigade"

Two X-Men return to the fold who haven't been around in a loong while, as 3 newer members coalesce into a working team. #218 is all about the new recruits! This is Marc Silvestri's debut as X-artist, too. The Juggernaut is the villain. Here I go:

Alex Summers and Lorna Dane are enjoying themselves, in northern New Mexico. The lovebirds are riding their jeep back to their desert cabin, along a winding mountain road, as a blue VW suddenly comes veering up. Lorna steers to escape it, and the jeep plunges down a cliffside, flipping over and over!! The 2 X-Men survive, but only after Havok blasts a huge boulder falling towards them. Lorna and Alex are essentially okay, and after several hours, they make their up the hillside to the road. The VW is long gone. Lorna uses her magnetic powers to lift the jeep, and they head out of there. Meanwhile, in Scotland, Dazzler has been buried in a cairn of rocks. Juggernaut believed her dead in last issue, and buried her. Alison is exhausted, but utilizing sounds around her, brings Psylocke, Rogue and Dazzler to her aid.

The 4 X-Men learn that Juggernaut has made his way to Edinburgh, Scotland's proud capital. Cain Marko is smashing the place all up. (Strangely, this is the same place Proteus went berserk in in Uncanny X-Men #128. Must bring down tourism.) Rogue, Psylocke, Longshot and Dazzler arrive in Edinburgh and a royal battle explodes with them & Juggernaut. A comic book shop titled Dark Carnival makes a cameo. Several pages of spirited fighting goes down. Edinburgh gets pretty roughed up. Rogue absorbs Cain's powers, weakening him. Dazzler jumps on his head, shooting off his helmet, and making him vulnerable to a psi-blast from Betsy Braddock. Psylock obligizes , and down Juggs goes into Sleepyland. However, the last laugh is on the X-Men ,as the police inform them Juggernaut's roughhouse was a diversion. While his partner in crime, Black Tom Cassidy, looted the Bank of Scotland. Psylocke says it doesn't matter. Today, they began forging themselves into a team--into X-Men!

The last page leaves a cliffhanger, as the reader returns to Havok and Lorna Dane, in the New Mexico desert. They are investigating the blue VW which nearly killed them. They've found a campsite of campers, who they recall owning a blue VW. The vehicle is gone, but a signs of a crash leading into a rockfall spikes their interest. Alex & Lorna use their uncanny powers to smash away the rockpile. Revealing dead bodies of the campers......and a Starshark lying in the debris. The massive shark is the living craft used by the dreaded Brood!! If they are here on Earth, we could be in serious trouble!!

My thoughts: A sweet ending to the Juggernaut arc, with new recruits Longshot, Psylocke and Dazzler getting to show their stuff. I think this whole arc was just a way to bring the newest X-Men together. Longshot still seems an oddity here, as this was his first actual physical adventure with the X-Men. Why doesn't he want to return to the Wildways to find Quark, Ricochet Rita and overthrow his sworn enemy, Mojo? Questions aside, this was a lovely story, though not a particurarly memorable one. Juggernaut is a cool villain, but he seems used to essentially fill-in between bigger epics. Cain's admitting he's a Dazzler fan was cute. Actually showing concern for Alison Blaire was amusing. The sequence with Alex and Lorna Dane was thrilling. It was great to see them again after so long. I found the finish quite intriguing.

[worstblogever]

Psylocke's attempt to take down the Juggernaut is laughable. I'll drive a delivery truck at him! Surely nobody has ever thought to try this before! Betsy, Betsy, Betsy...

Still, seeing the new team working together against Juggernaut is a nice read. They're hardly working completely in sync, but Banshee's words last issue seem to have gotten through to them. Shame Sean's cousin is still running amok, though.

The return of the Brood sub-plot is interesting, a good tease for a potential return of Havok and Polaris. Looking forward to seeing where that goes.

[MartinRedmond]

This and X-Men vs Avengers 1&2, it didn't get any better. I was thrilled to see Marc Silvestri doing more mutants. :X

[limerick]

Thoughts on #218:

--Nice Art Adams cover but I may have finally spotted his weakness---he can't draw people running.What is Psylocke's left leg doing and Dazz. looks like she just fell over!
--Has anyone else got slight colouring errors on some pages?My copy has the colouring slightly to the right of where it should be which gives an annoting smudged appearance.
--I generally like the Sylvestri art but I've always found his female characters to resemble each other a bit too closely.Check out Lorna on page 4 and Dazz on page 5--thay are very similar ,IMO.
--Great to see Havok back in the X-men pages.He's always been a favourite of mine and I really love his costume(still not on show here).Iloved the idea that it actually had a function and ,even better, that it had been designed and supplied by an enemy of the X-men.Nice touch from the golden Thomas/Neal years.I really enjoyed the "substitute" X-men taking on Arcade early into Cockrums second run.So it's great to see a Summers brother back in the X-men.
--Dazz's buried alive scenario is my worst nightmare come through!One thing I notice about this sequence is that sound seems to restore Ali physically as well as provide energy for the use of her powers.She describes the sound as "MAKING ME STRONGER" and when short of noise/sound she says"AT THIS RATE ,BE A LONG TIME......BEFORE i'M ABLE TO MOVE"as if sound will give her the strength to move.I may be reading this wrongly.
--Dazz and Rogue have come a long way-check out their high 5 on page 21.
--The Juggernaught battle was a bit of a downer.Claremont went for the old classic--remove his helmet and let the telepath at him.It was great the first time the O5 did it but it's a bit tired now.We want some originality from our superheroes.It's not just doing it in style---we want originality as well!

[jmc247]

Thank you for the kind words, Limerick and Darkchylde. I actually do feel a sense of accomplishent having done a review/summary of over 200 issues of Uncanny X-Men.

It is an accomplishment... I must admit I thought the thread might not make it this far.

[sbo]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v669/sbo/ux218RvJmx.jpg

SLAMMO! Ow Ow OW! I love this issue

I wonder what qualifies as science fiction in the Dark Carnival bookstore, considering that you have flying, super-powered people in spandex beating each other half to death right outside your front door ?

[david r]

Thoughts on #218:
--Nice Art Adams cover but I may have finally spotted his weakness---he can't draw people running.What is Psylocke's left leg doing and Dazz. looks like she just fell over!

They look like they're running in place!

--Has anyone else got slight colouring errors on some pages?My copy has the colouring slightly to the right of where it should be which gives an annoting smudged appearance.

No, I don't have that. Where are you getting your comics?

--Dazz and Rogue have come a long way-check out their high 5 on page 21.

I found the high 5 scene amusing. Here the X-Men save the day, but Psylocke must erase the memory of all the bystanders. So, as usual, the X-Men get no credit for it and Rogue was enjoying this irony. (BTW, where all the Smilies you promised in your posts??) :biggrin:

Speaking of Dave Cockrum, if you liked him, I reccomend his Futurians graphic novels, there's two of them. He inks them himself and it looks way better than his X-Men work. They're his own characters so the designs are pretty similar to his previous ones, kind of 1970s sci-fi japanime inspired.

I've always wanted to read The Futurians. Dave Cockrum was working on a third novel, when he passed away. I will read the books someday.

[CallMeGeoff]

This issue is a lot of fun. I like seeing the new kids working together. I guess Dazzler's power doesn't work on sounds she makes? You'd think she'd hum a tune or snap her fingers or something.

I really love Marc Silvestri's run on X-Men. I think his work just gets better and better the farther along his run goes. It's one of my favorites.

[limerick]

:tongue: Yeah,I forgot!:biggrin:

[Nevets F]

Just like this issue before, I really, really loved this story. I don't know exactly what it was about it...I think I just loved seeing all of these New X-Men get the spotlight.

[david r]

Do we ever learn what Black Tom Cassidy did with the $$$$ he looted from the Bank of Scotland? Tom must be filthy rich now.

Alan Davis:

An aside here, another foray into X-history, now that a British artist named Alan Davis has become a regular on the X-Annuals it seems! :tongue: Davis was an up-and-coming artist here in the U.S. in 1987. Alan had made a name for himself on the British comics scene, and DC Comics had noticed and given him work here first. Alan was given the artistic assignment on Detective Comics, drawing the adventures of Batman & Robin. However, Batman was NOT Alan's dream DC character, but Aquaman. Davis badly wanted to draw an Aquaman book, and was asking DC to transfer him from the crime-riddled streets of Gotham to the watery glories of the ocean depths. DC did not seem enthusiastic about Alan Davis' wishes, and was dodgy on getting back to him on his repeated Aquaman requests.

Enter: Chris Claremont. Claremont had also noticed Alan Davis' work and was calling Davis to get him on the X-Men. Claremont really liked Alan's style and felt it would be perfect for Uncanny X-Men. DC wasn't returning Davis' phone calls,but Claremont was. Davis even says Claremont was calling him more than DC Comics--his employer!! Alan reportedly was growing disillusioned with DC and finally agreed to take on the mutants, but oddly, was squeamish about becoming regular artist on Uncanny X-Men. Davis was intimidated by the long line of stellar artists who'd already made their mark on X-Men. Men with names like Kirby, Adams, Cockrum, Byrne and Smith. Alan seems to have vetoed UNCANNY, but agree to a long parade of Annuals. Which I'm in the midst of reading now.

Claremont was still trying to find another way to get Alan Davis away from DC, and onto a permanent X-book. If not UNCANNY, then something else. What would CC dream up?

[limerick]

Some interesting info. there David.

Just to let you know the excellent Spiderman vs. Wolverine one-shot came out about this time.It's probably outside the remit of this thread but it's well worth a read for anyone who's interested.The original would be pricey but Im sure it was reprinted later.:smile:

[david r]

Just to let you know the excellent Spiderman vs. Wolverine one-shot came out about this time.It's probably outside the remit of this thread but it's well worth a read for anyone who's interested.The original would be pricey but Im sure it was reprinted later.:smile:

Is this the one that took place in Europe? And the identity of the Hobgoblin was revealed?

[david r]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.219.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #219

"Where Duty Lies"

Another take on the "Welcome to the X-Men....Hope you Survive the Experience" on #219's cover. This issue brings Alex Summers, aka Havok into the X-Men for the first time in 18 years. This issue implies Havok stayed away because he wasn't terribly interested in the superhero lifestyle. After reading this issue, I can see why. The "heroes" here are portrayed as menacing and sinister. The X-Men included. The world is growing darker and bleaker.

Alex and lover Lorna Dane are still living in their New Mexico cabin. Alex has been trying to find the X-Men, presumably to tell them of the Brood StarShark he & Lorna discovered in #218. Alex has gotten no response. Not from New York, or Muir Island. And Alex is having weird nightmares of strange, distorted X-Men chasing after him. After 1 such night terror, Alex decides to return to Westchester again to find his former teammates. Lorna stays behind at the desert cabin. She "flies" their jeep to the airport. Upon arriving, Alex finds the Xavier Mansion completely deserted. He locates Headmaster Magneto's diary which shows a date for the Hellfire Club. (It also shows an entry which reads "Lunch w/ Ann & Chris." An in-joke??) Alex heads over to the infamous Hellfire Club, where he gains entry and is escorted into a chamber with Magneto and Emma Frost, the White Queen. When Alex learns Magneto has joined the Inner Circle, as White King, and formed a pact with the Lords Cardinal----Alex is beside himself with rage!! He demands to speak with Storm and the X-Men. But Magneto says that's not possible. (Mags eyebrows are growing bushier and bushier, just like Charles Xavier!) Alex doesn't believe Magneto's reasons for the pact, and storms out not believing a word of it. Magneto fumes that his "supervillain" past continues to dog his present.

Meanwhile, back in New Mexico, 3 Marauders are sneaking up on Lorna Dane in her desert cabin. They are Scalphunter, Arclight and Sabretooth. Lorna is in deep trouble, as they attack. Arclight causes a small tremor which shakes the cabin. Then Scalphunter blows it apart with one shot from his long rifle. Sabretooth's enhanced senses pick up Lorna as alive. He heads in for the kill himself. Lorna has crawled out of the devastated cabin, and is hiding behind a boulder. Sabretooth locates her, but Lorna unleashes her magnetic powers, using minerals in the rocks to hold down 'tooth. She cannot contain him though, and soon she is overwhelmed by the Marauders and blasted by Scalphunter again. Back in New York, Alex grows infuriated as he cannot locate his brother, Scott, nor the X-Men. Callisto on Muir Isle practically hangs up on his telephone call. Havok finally dons his classic black uniform, and follows Magneto as he exits the Hellfire Club. Havok follows the Master of Magnetism into the underground subway, and down along a railway into one of the subway tunnels. Magneto disappears through a mystery door. Havok is perplexed, but follows suit and finds himself in the Morlock tunnels, far below the subway and city streets.

Soon enough, creeping through the dark and dank tunnels, Alex locates a lighted room. Storm, Psylocke, Longshot and Magneto stand in a lone room. Dazzler's powers provide the only illumination. Ororo is holding a meeting, explaining the X-Men's dire situation following the Marauders' attack. Their numbers have been cut in half. She feels the only way for the X-Men to gain the initiative from their enemies--- is for the X-Men to die! Havok is shocked by what he hears, but is soon discovered by Rogue. Alex lashes out and flees down the spooky tunnels. X-Men chase after, and attack him, not knowing who it is. They finally capture him, and we learn they have mindwiped him from knowing their plans in a previous visit by Alex. Thus explaining his nightmares recently. Havok is furious when he learns they've tampered with his mind!! Psylocke now wonders what to do with him here, since Alex has heard their strategy. Betsy observes perhaps they should kill him! Storm thinks for a moment, but says "We do not slay our own." The X-Men now tell Havok of the whole Mutant Massacre, and the losses incurred. Alex is beside himself with shock. Alex realizes he CANNOT go back to the life he had before, living oblivously to the mutant horrors occuring around him, and ignoring them. Alex asks to join the team. Magneto replies, "A WAR has begun, Alex Summers--of mutant versus mutant. Here, was fought the first battle. Here, fell the first casualties. They will not be the last."

The issue ends with all 3 Marauders captured by Polaris in the New Mexico desert. However, we learn Lorna has been possessed by Malice! Back when Lorna saw Alex Summers off at the airport. Malice enjoys this new body and psyche, and perhaps will stay. Lorna/Malice says "With my prompting--and under Mr. Sinister's tutelage--Lorna Dane will achieve her true destiny as the Mistress of Magnetism, Monarch of the Marauders--POLARIS!"

[CallMeGeoff]

Some interesting info. there David.

Just to let you know the excellent Spiderman vs. Wolverine one-shot came out about this time.It's probably outside the remit of this thread but it's well worth a read for anyone who's interested.The original would be pricey but Im sure it was reprinted later.:smile:

I have never heard of this before!! I will need to investigate this...

About 219:

Havok!! Love that ridiculous costume. I really like his power signature too. The concentric circles. Visually, it's a neat power. And I like Blevins, dang it!!!!

I was bummed by the way Polaris was defeated. She fought well, but she just couldn't handle all the Marauders alone. She might have done it, too, if not for Malice... Damn that Malice!!!

[worstblogever]

Do we ever learn what Black Tom Cassidy did with the $$$$ he looted from the Bank of Scotland? Tom must be filthy rich now.

I doubt it. Tom strikes me as a guy that blew a lot of his cash on women and booze. Having Cain as a running buddy breaking stuff probably added to the finances. Easy come, easy go.

Thoughts on #219-

Let's start with Polaris... she really held her own, for a moment (impressive, nice to see!), against all the Marauders. Sadly, I fear her dealings with that group are far from over.

And poor, poor Havok. He's back to find the team, and he's worried about what became of the X-Men he knew, and then he gets hunted down by the whole team over a misunderstanding?

Shocking moment- Betsy suggests the team kill Havok to keep their continued existence a secret. Just... wow. That will likely hang over the relationship of these two characters for awhile, at least. I know Betsy worked as a spy for STRIKE, once upon the time, but the implications of killing a former ally to keep your existence a secret are really heavy, even in the wake of the Morlock Massacre. Good thing Storm is trying to be the team's conscience.

[Valjean999]

As was said already, the Spider Man vs Wolverine does not really affect the overall continuity of this book, but I am another one who highly recommends it. The writer, Jim Owsley (I think? I'm only going by my memory here), had the characterization of both Peter and Logan down perfect, and I loved the banter between the two.

[MartinRedmond]

Lorna/Malice says "With my prompting--and under Mr. Sinister's tutelage--Lorna Dane will achieve her true destiny as the Mistress of Magnetism, Monarch of the Marauders--POLARIS!"

AHahaha Lorna Dane is now Sinister's pet... BODY and SOUL!!! ahah aha ahahah >:D

[limerick]

Is this the one that took place in Europe? And the identity of the Hobgoblin was revealed?
Don't have it in front of me---pretty sure it did take place in europe,pretty sure it didn't feature the Hobgoblin!

[limerick]

Don't have it in front of me---pretty sure it did take place in europe,pretty sure it didn't feature the Hobgoblin!
Thoughts on #219:

--Blevins is back!Not his biggest fan but I think he's actually okay here.He'll never be my Favourite but this is definitely passable.
--Havok's back in action.I loved the way most of this story was told in the first person from Havok's point of view.He was such an underused character at the time and it was great to get him back in the pages of an X-book--even better that it was Uncanny.
--Like Geoff,I love his uniform and the concentric circle effect his power generates.Love it when he really cuts loose on page 5.
--Sorry,but Blevins must draw the least attractive Lorna ever!Boo,Hiss.
--His Bettsy,though,is hot,if a little stern.
--Wolverine isn't there--maybe he's off on his adventure with Spidey mentioned before.
--That the X-men could even consider killing Havok was shocking.What is this -The Dark X-men?

[david r]

My thoughts on UXM #219: I agree with nearly everything posted. I was alarmed by the bleak, menacing tone this issue has. The X-Men are portrayed here in a way not seen before. Cunning and secretive, this does NOT resemble Charles Xavier's X-Men or the Dream he believed in. Plan Omega is revealed as a way to hide the X-Men's identity, behind the charade of their deaths. This is a dramatic turning away from Xavier's practices, and the way they are going about it leaves me wondering about the future of the X-Men.

Yes, Psylock mentioning killing Havok is a jaw-dropping scene! Worse, Ororo contemplates it for a moment!! What's happened to these characters?? :eek: I can't help but read this, and parallel the Mutant Massacre with September 11th, 2001. The X-Men's core strategy is being changed, due to a horrible act of violence. But is what they're doing right or wrong? I wonder if Magneto was telling the Hellfire Club about Storm's intentions, upon his visit in #219?

Blevins artwork is okay, but nothing fantastic. Along with Geoff and Limerick, I've always liked Havok's black costume. A very unique look to it.

[david r]

Only 290 issues to go! Can I do it? Can I DO IT??

[worstblogever]

Only 290 issues to go! Can I do it? Can I DO IT??

You're chasing them. Even if you post one Uncanny issue a day, you're looking at about 8 more issues, on top of that, by the end of the year.

You'll catch 'em, david, but once you start thinking about "Excalibur from the Beginning", or "Wolverine from the Beginning", and the other spinoffs...

Let's just say I don't envy you for the epic endeavor you've undertaken. Esteem, and admire, yes. Envy? Nuh uh. :redface:

[Valjean999]

Don't have it in front of me---pretty sure it did take place in europe,pretty sure it didn't feature the Hobgoblin!


Yes, it took place in Europe. And, at the time, it featured the death of the original Hobgoblin, Ned Leeds. Though we didnt know it at the time.

I think, though, that this has been retro-conned, and he is no longer the original Hobgoblin. Guess it depends on which continuity that you wish to follow.

[limerick]

re:CAN I DO IT? by DAVID R.


Yes you can!(Are you running out of steam??!).A titanic effort.How big a task it will become will depend which future threads you intend creating.Wolverine,Excalibur,Generation X,Cable.......the list becomes a major task.As I said before you are creating an invaluable online reference guide with explanations on creative staff and their motivations,chronology,character motivations and cross-over informaion.As well as loads more and hard-to-find x-book related art.(I recently came across the original opening page for #138---magical!).
Yes,a mammoth task indeed ,but one you are rising continuously to meet .AND ALL CREDIT TO YOU FOR THAT!!!!!

[creaky]

Only 290 issues to go! Can I do it? Can I DO IT??

Go David Go! :biggrin:

[CallMeGeoff]

I believe in you, David!

Try to be best
‘Cause you’re only a man
And a man’s gotta learn to take it

Try to believe
Though the going gets rough
That you gotta hang tough to make it

History repeats itself
Try and you’ll succeed

Never doubt that you’re the one
And you can have your dreams!

You’re the best!
Around!
Nothing’s gonna ever keep you down
You’re the Best!
Around!
Nothing’s gonna ever keep you down
You’re the Best!
Around!
Nothing’s gonna ever keep you dow-ow-ow-ow-own

Fight ‘til the end
Cause your life will depend
On the strength that you have inside you

Ah you gotta be proud
starin’ out in the cloud
When the odds in the game defy you

Try your best to win them all
and one day time will tell
when you’re the one that’s standing there
you’ll reach the final bell!

You’re the best!
Around!
Nothing’s gonna ever keep you down
You’re the Best!
Around!
Nothing’s gonna ever keep you down
You’re the Best!
Around!
Nothing’s gonna ever keep you dow-ow-ow-ho-how-ho-own

INSPIRING GUITAR SOLO

You’re the best!
Around!
Nothing’s gonna ever keep you down
You’re the Best!
Around!
Nothing’s gonna ever keep you down
You’re the Best!
Around!
Nothing’s gonna ever keep you dow-ow-ow-ow-own

Fight ‘til you drop
never stop
can’t give up
Til you reach the top (FIGHT!)
you’re the best in town (FIGHT!)
Listen to that sound
A little bit of all you got
Can never bring you down

You’re the best!
Around!
Nothing’s gonna ever keep you down
You’re the Best!
Around!

repeat to fade, occasional background shouts of “Oh Ye-eah!”

~Joe Esposito, "You're the Best", from the Karate Kid soundtrack. Word.

[david r]

The Karate Kid song? Alright!!! LOL! I'll be humming those lyrics for weeks now! :biggrin: I didn't say I was losing steam! But yes, this can feel like a full-time job sometimes. Those early issues were easy, most were just 17 pages. Even the 1970s X-Men issues were 17 pages. But doing this has gotten difficult during this 1980s period, when Chris Claremont's issues each are huge with dialogue and story. And I like to take my time to read and actually enjoy the issue. Which means it takes about an hour to read them. Then 30 minutes to write the review/summary online. And you see sometimes steam is rising from my keyboard day after day.

Thanks for the group hug. :smile: I know I wouldn't have gotten this far without everyone else's comments, which I always looks forward to reading. BTW, wasn't Uncanny X-Men #219 a really disturbing issue. I found it truly disturbing.

[LifeFirst]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.111.GIF

X-Men #111

"Mindgames"

Hur-ry! Hur-ry! HUR-RY! Come one, come all t' the GREATEST little show on Earth!! The X-Men as circus freaks ! We got t'rills an' chills, sights t'bedazzle the eye and freeze the heart! Just looky at that beaut of a cover! Yes ladies 'n gents...it's a classic!! Drawn by th' talented Dave Cockrum! I just couldn't stop lookin' at it!!

#111 also introduces the furry Beast to the pages of X-Men, as the new-an'-improved hirsute Beast has never really played a major role in the series so far. Our Hank McCoy is taking time off of the Avengers (remember, this is 1978!) to locate his former team, who have gone missing. (Unfortunately, writer Chris Claremont doesn't even attempt to pen Mr. McCoy with his trademark voluminous vocabular. Oh well) Beast locates them in Texas, the whole new X-Men turned into carnival freaks. The most impressive being Jean Grey, who is now a big-top act named Miz Destiny! After #108, that name seems highly appropriate!!

"Slim" Summers is her bodyguard it seems. Wolverine is chained to a wall, Banshee is the barker and poor Nightcrawler has been turned into a freak for audiences to stare & point at! Something is terribly wrong here! Hank confronts Miz Destiny in her circus wagon, who doesn't know who he is! Hank is chased around the circus back-lot, by carnys until Colossus, dressed in Egyptian garb, punches him from behind. Hank is taken to the mastermind of this place, Mesmero!! Our green-skinned nemesis has brainwashed the X-Men & done this to them. As he attempts to brainwash Beast, Wolverine painstakingly breaks free from his chains and sets out to free the other X-Men. (But...how does Wolvie gets his uniform back?!) The other X-Men are awoken from Mesmero's hypnotic power, and confront Mesmero in his wagon. Mesmero suddenly collapses to the floor! A menacing voice echoes from the dark of the wagon... I shouldn't worry about Mesmero, if I were you, Cyclops. I should instead worry about simply surviving to see tomorrow's sunrise! And from the shadows emerges...MAGNETO!!

My thoughts: #111 is another classic, with beauteous artwork by John Byrne and Terry Austin and superb scripting by Chris Claremont. It was very much fun seeing our mutants turned into barnyard carnival freaks, and they've been this way for weeks. I kind of wish we could have seen more of what they endured during that time. Sounds like Ororo was treated pretty shabbily by the carnys. And oh boy, what a cliffhanger!



One of my favorite X-Men issues ever. The twist at the end was so awesome with Magneto rising out his chair. This issue here can DEFINITELY compete with the stuff today.

[LifeFirst]

I'm actually doing something similar...not only am I trying to catch with X-Men, also I'm trying to catch with Batman and Superman as well, reading all the post-crisis issues (I've read a lot of the issues leading up to the Crisis as well), and I have to say the pre-Crisis Batman is awesome, the Nocturna storyline was amazing.

As for X-Men, I've read a lot of the pre-Wolverine issues and they're corny straight up, no matter how you put it. A lot of it is just not even readable. But when Wolverine, Nightcrawler, Storm finally gets recruited then it becomes pretty decent. I think a lot of the stories can definitely compete with the stuff out today.

[david r]

One of my favorite X-Men issues ever. The twist at the end was so awesome with Magneto rising out his chair. This issue here can DEFINITELY compete with the stuff today.

Yessiree, that is a fantastic issue, and the start of one of the greatest X-Men adventures of all time!!!

I'm actually doing something similar...not only am I trying to catch with X-Men, also I'm trying to catch with Batman and Superman as well, reading all the post-crisis issues (I've read a lot of the issues leading up to the Crisis as well), and I have to say the pre-Crisis Batman is awesome, the Nocturna storyline was amazing.

That is great. How do you possibly juggle all those books? I've always heard pre-Crisis Batman was flat, but you say it's good? But for X-Men, yes the pre-Wolverine stuff is a required taste. I like it for what it is. Fun, innocent stories from a different era. There is some good stuff there, and some subpar material. But still interesting.

[david r]

One hilarious moment from Uncanny X-Men #219 was on Page 15, when Havok follows Magneto by hopping from tree-to-tree along a Manhattan street. I read that and thought of Shia LeBeouf similiar Tarzan stunt in Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. A truly LOL moment.

And Magneto would never notice him......yeah right!

[LifeFirst]

Yessiree, that is a fantastic issue, and the start of one of the greatest X-Men adventures of all time!!!



That is great. How do you possibly juggle all those books? I've always heard pre-Crisis Batman was flat, but you say it's good?


I know, you would expect it to be corny but some of the stuff is surprisingly dark. The issues that led up to the Crisis on Infinite Earths were some of the most consistent and best Batman stories I've read.

http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/detective-comics/539-1.jpg

http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/detective-comics/543-12.jpg

Especially these two in recent memory, just powerful and dark stories that were just way ahead of its time.

[david r]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97904389460.11.GIF

Uncanny X-Men Annual #11

"Lost in the Funhouse"

1st appearance: Logan/Ororo first kiss

Another unbelievably good story, in a line of fantastic Annuals. Many of them send the X-Men on an exotic journey to an unknown land/or dimension. Annual #11 continues that trend into fantasy adventure, and with the expert team of Chris Claremont and Alan Davis, they delivered us X-fans another classic to cherish. Plus, Wolverine and Storm passionately kiss here for the first time. Captain Britain and Meggan guest-star. Oh....and I thought that was Jocasta there on the cover.

It is night, and Wolverine is stumbling his way home from a late-night binge of boozin' and drinking. Presumably in Salem's Center. Logan walks down the driveway with beers in his hands, kicking his cowboy boots and singing a song. (Anyone recognize the song?) The X-Men, with new recruits Havok, Psylocke, Longshot and Dazzler, plus Storm & Rogue, all rush out to from the drunken commotion he's making. Betsy's brother, Brian Braddock and his lover, Meggan, are also staying. Logan is in a drunken stupor that would make poster Howyadoin' proud! Logan is celebrating the anniversary of his & Mariko's wedding. Thus, why he's feeling down and got himself drunk. Soon enough, the action begins, as a monster named Horde (shown on the cover) breaks into the Mansion and defeats all the mutants in attendance. (Magneto and the New Mutants must be on a field trip.) The mutants' powers have zero effect on Horde, and he spirits them all away to another dimension.

The mutants see a long line of large statues, all representing aliens like the Skrulls or Kree. At the end of the line, is an absolutely massive structure/ building that is both amazing and forboding in it's dark, ominous magnificence. The mutants feel apprehension, but learn from Horde they must enter the tower, named the Citadel of Light and Shadow, and locate the legendary treasure, the Crystal of Ultimate Vision. If they do not, Horde will destroy their world. The mutants begin the walk to the Citadel, and Ororo says, "And if not, Logan, then--as the saying goes--this is as good a day as any to die. And the best of friends to do so with." Ororo and Logan then kiss full-mouth, in front of everybody. (This happens on Page 14.) The mutants now enter the Citadel, and all are filled with dread. Soon enough, each one is confronted by their heart's desire. Rogue as a Southern Belle with many courtly gentleman callers. Havok as a beautiful star. Dazzler is confronted by several life's paths: a lawyer, a singer, or a transient. Longshot discorporates and disappears into the Citadel itself. Sending Dazzler into a frenzy of anguish and guilt. Brian Braddock and Meggan see a comfortable, prosaic middle-class life of ease. Most of the mutants welcome this fantasy and disappear into their fantasy, leaving the X-Men's ranks depleted.

Psylocke rips off her flesh, and shows a hardened warrior of steel underneath. Meanwhile, 2 X-Men face their heart's desires.....and turn away. Storm faces Yukio in Tokyo, Japan, and though every fibre of her being wants to *spend time* with Yukio, Ororo fights her urges and returns to the Citadel. Likewise, Wolverine is faced with a ravenously beautiful Mariko Yashida, and Mariko embodies both the innocence, and wild hot sex, that Logan desires. But Logan too realizes this is a charade, and rejects the fantasy. Only Logan and Ororo locate the Crystal of Ultimate Vision, and Horde enters the chamber to seize it. Logan pushes Ororo back into her Yukio-fantasy world, in order to save her. Wolverine senses only HE can save the day. As Logan approaches the Crystal, Horde's spear drives into him and Wolvie collapses. Horde mocks him, raises him up and drives razor-sharp claws into Wolverine's chest, killing him! However, one drop of Logan's blood splashes outwards............and touches the Crystal. And that's all it takes. The magic of the Crystal somehow replicates Wolverine in Godlike form. Logan's body is regenerated whole, and Logan floats, naked, before the Crystal, in an eerie state of cosmic grandeur. Logan rips off a shard from Horde's forehead, which was seemingly keeping Horde alive. Horde then shrivels into ashes and dust, dead.

Wolverine now becomes "one with the Cosmos"! He can sense, and control, every single thing in the multiverse and he says: "Was this how Jean Grey felt...when she became Phoenix?I can sense...EVERYTHING! Every particle of matter. Every burst of energy, every living thing--in all CREATION! The universe--mine--to do with as I wish! I can transform...shape...create...heal...destroy....... STOP. Before I start. I'm talkin' like God. Only I ain't God. That was Horde's trip. "

Wolverine rejects the Cosmic, unspeakable, unimaginable power he wields. Not just that, Logan slashes out with his unbreakabale adamantium claws and destroys the Crystal of Ultimate Vision. In so doing, the entire Citadel......EXPLODES!! The Annual ends with the X-Men back at Charles Xavier's Mansion. All are well, and remember the Horde adventure like a dream. Storm senses the memory will soon fade from all,and be forgotten. She realizes Wolverine saved them all, saved the universe. A feat similiar to Jean Grey's sacrifice as Phoenix. Ororo sits alone in the Mansions' Cupola, at the top of the house. Ororo stares into the stars. The final panels explain the Crystal was a test. A test of each individual species and race which confront the Crystal. Those who seize the power of the Crystal are found wanting, and their species will STOP evolving as a race, and eventually die out, as creation leaves them by. (That is what the long line of alien statues meant. Including the Skrull & Kree.) Only those who REJECT the unimaginable allure of the Crystal, are found WORTHY to continue forth. Thus, Wolverine's deed is honorable beyond all humanity's knowledge, or imagining. Humanity will never know the debt it owes. For tonight, the race faced it's ultimate test. And thanks to it's wayward, outcast children--the X-Men--PASSED.

My thoughts: A masterpiece. It's really as simple as that. Horde's mission for the mutants to locate the Crystal of Ultimate Vision, tests the X-Men in new ways. I liked the elaborate fantasies that confront them, and how most embrace and succumb to the sweet nectar. Only Psylocke, Wolverine and Storm seem able to resist. Storm & Logan's kiss was a bit disarming, and I wished we'd seen the looks on the faces of their teammates. Speaking of Ororo, I had always disregarded these rumors of a "Yukio/Ororo" lesbian tryst in Tokyo. After reading this............I am not so sure now. This Annual definitely hints to something which happened between them. I found Alison Blaire's fantasy of lawyer/singer/bag-lady the most interesting of all the fantasies presented. And yes, it seems rather obvious here a love interest is growing with Dazzler & Longshot. Though Longshot seems too childlike to notice. But overall, I enjoy these Annuals, as most are fantasy adventures which lead X-Men into unknown lands. And I like that, as something different and special. But I will remember most the magnificent ending sequence with Wolverine and the Crystal. Logan becomes unto a GOD!!! It was an awe-inspiring scene, and shows how far Wolverine has come as a character. His rejection of the Power Cosmic, saves the Human Race. And his own soul. I stand in rapture of this whole story, another notch in the cap of Greatness for Claremont/Davis. The last page, and what was said there, made me cry!

[Bingo!]

david r,

This is a fantastic issue. I haven't read it in years, but from what I remember it stole me from away from Spider-Man.

[CallMeGeoff]

Yeah, I'm with you guys, this is a great story. Fantastic character moments all across the board. I think Claremont does a really good job with Dazzler. I have never read a single issue of her series, so I don't know much about her. Despite this fact, I find myself interested in her and wanting to read more about her. He does a great job fleshing her out.

And I would love to hear what Wolverine's singing voice is like. Ha!

[Imraith Nimphais]

This annual is head to head with my all-time FAVE! x-men stories ever told. A masterpiece, indeed! As for Ororo's seemingly "implied" lesbian tryst...so wot?! I never undertstood other readers' fascination with this particular sub-text of her character...being the open-minded, free-spirit that she is portrayed to be, it is not in the least bit shocking or incomprehensible to me that Storm "kissed a girl and she liked it"...I would certainly commend her for "experimenting" and trying new and different things.

[david r]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/31034281512.1.GIF

Fantastic Four vs. the X-Men #1

"Are You Sure?"

This limited series pairs up Marvel's First Family, against those Merry Mutants. Writer Chris Claremont gets the Fantastic Four spot on. He captures the characterizations of the FF very well here. Franklin Richards is essentially the reader's point-of-view character, and poor Franklin watches as a long lost book: Reed Richards' State University Journal, resurfaces and causes a rift between Susan and her husband. What is written within the mystery tome, remains unknown at this point.

Meanwhile, the X-Men, plus Magneto, call on the aid of Reed Richards to help with Shadowcat. Kitty Pryde is trapped in her ghost form, and is slowly discorporating. Kitty has mere days before she will suffer brain damage. The FF sure as heck don't trust Magneto (strangely, Mags is sent to enlist Reed) but decide to help. She-Hulk is found in the Raglan Coffee House in New York (did it used to be the Coffee A'Go-Go? ) and Jennifer joins Reed, the Human Torch and the Thing on their journey to Muir Island. Susan Richards stays at Four Freedoms Plaza, her feelings towards Reed enraged because of the Journal. Reed is a shadow of himself, as the Fantastic Four arrive on Muir Isle. Reed examines Kitty and comes to the conclusion he cannot help her. Wolverine senses something is foul with Reed, and Magneto begins to forcibly seize the device Reed has brought. The device was designed to save Shadowcat. The FF believe Magneto is back to his old tricks, and a scuffle breaks out. Wolverine punches Johnny Storm in the stomach, dropping him to the ground. (No burn marks on Logan's hand? What gives?) Wolverine then assaults Mr. Fantastic, who stretches out of the way! Wolvie says if he won't help them..... then Reed will DIE!!!

My thoughts: A fantastic first issue, befitting this great mini series. Both super-teams have emotions flaring. The FF because of Reed's journal (and what is written within), and the X-Men because of their desperate need to help an ailing teammate. As I wrote, Claremont does a wonderful job writing the FF here, and balancing out both classic Marvel teams. The art by Jon Bogdanove is quite scrumptious! Longshot supplies the humor, as he calls the ocean "the Big Wet" and dives in. He doesn't like what he finds!!! This is a quality book, and appears to be another memorable story.

[limerick]

Thoughts on #11(Annual):

--All comics should be like this!Often when you return to a comic years later the story loses its impact.Perhaps growing into an adult erodes the imagination of youth and fantastic possibilities seem less likely now you live in the real world.But this story has the opposite effect---it has more impact each time you read it.It's a wonderful tale of bravery,sacriface and heroism and reaffirms the X-men as Heroes and world-savers in a difficult time for them.The torch has been passed to a new team of X-men and the future is safe in their hands.
--Wonderful Davis art but I feel he may have been working to a tight deadline here.Many of the panels seem bare and background detail is very sparse especially in the first third.In fact many panels have only the characters with a matrix of black-and white dots acting as the background.
--Cap. Britain and Meggan are back.Claremont is a fan!David,you recently spoke of the possibility of Davis having joined Uncanny as full-time artist.I wonder if he had would CB and Meggan have ended up in the X-men and Excalibur may never have happened?
--Claremont is back to his very best.He fleshes out the lesser characters so well.Check out Meggan's thought bubble on pg.4.It completely changes the meaning of her actions and protrays her as a caring sensitive soul rather than a bimbo.The same goes for CB thought bubbles on page 16.His scientific musings on Havok's power gives some insight into the man---it's easy to forget he had a career as a scientist.
--Wolverine's journey is amazing going from seemingly carefree drunk to pensive deep-thinking Samuri to Invincible god-like figure who sacrifices his new powers to embrace his humanity and in doing so saves Humanity.I know it's become common-place to criticise Wolverine in the last couple of years for his overexposure(Marvel milking the cash cow!)but I'll neverthink bad of him after this story.He really is truely heroic the way he saves Ororo and faces Horde alone.
--Actually,I was surprised Wolverine was the hero in this story.Claremont seemed to have such a soft spot for Ororo over the previous few years I would have thought she would have turned out to be the X-mens' saviour-but not this time.
--All in all --a masterpiece that every X-fan must read.:biggrin:

[david r]

Geoff, Oh yes, Chris Claremont does a good job writing Dazzler. I found her obsession with her alternate futures (lawyer/singer/bum) fascinating, and a spotlight into her tortured psyche. Nice work by CC.

Imraith Nimphais, I never gave the Storm/Yukio rumors any creedence, until reading Annual 11. Now I wonder. But if true, who cares. It opened Ororo Munroe up and that has been a good thing. It is strange that Ororo's fantasy isn't with Forge, though! :wink:

The torch has been passed to a new team of X-men and the future is safe in their hands.

Very well said. I agree this Annual stands the test of time. It's a testament that 22 years later, this story still works. As for Alan Davis, I think I see what you mean. His art isn't as detailed as the past. Still good, but putting together these Annuals must be a long process, and this is Davis' fourth Annual. I feel New Mutants Annual #3 was his best effort so far. :smile:

Cap. Britain and Meggan are back.Claremont is a fan!David,you recently spoke of the possibility of Davis having joined Uncanny as full-time artist.I wonder if he had would CB and Meggan have ended up in the X-men and Excalibur may never have happened?

I wonder.....that is a real possibility. Captain Britain and Meggan as members of this new, Uncanny team. I could see Claremont do it, to bring familiarity for Alan Davis on UXM. And yes, Excalibur never would have happened. It sounds so odd now that Alan Davis would say NO to such a big gig like UNCANNY. Does Alan worry a lot?

--Wolverine's journey is amazing going from seemingly carefree drunk to pensive deep-thinking Samuri to Invincible god-like figure who sacrifices his new powers to embrace his humanity and in doing so saves Humanity.I know it's become common-place to criticise Wolverine in the last couple of years for his overexposure(Marvel milking the cash cow!)but I'll neverthink bad of him after this story.He really is truely heroic the way he saves Ororo and faces Horde alone.

I think this adventure, along with Logan's stopping Rachel Summers from cold-bloodedly killing Selene, marks Logan as the conscience of the X-Men. WHO WOULD HAVE EVER THOUGHT? I wonder though, was Logan's real body cloned by the Crystal of Ultimate Vision? It looked like his original physical body died, and he was cloned/resurrected into a new body. Plus, there is a hint here this Crystal is tied into the M'Kraan Crystal. I love little connections like that!

[limerick]

Geoff, Oh yes, Chris Claremont does a good job writing Dazzler. I found her obsession with her alternate futures (lawyer/singer/bum) fascinating, and a spotlight into her tortured psyche. Nice work by CC.

Imraith Nimphais, I never gave the Storm/Yukio rumors any creedence, until reading Annual 11. Now I wonder. But if true, who cares. It opened Ororo Munroe up and that has been a good thing. It is strange that Ororo's fantasy isn't with Forge, though! :wink:



Very well said. I agree this Annual stands the test of time. It's a testament that 22 years later, this story still works. As for Alan Davis, I think I see what you mean. His art isn't as detailed as the past. Still good, but putting together these Annuals must be a long process, and this is Davis' fourth Annual. I feel New Mutants Annual #3 was his best effort so far. :smile:



I wonder.....that is a real possibility. Captain Britain and Meggan as members of this new, Uncanny team. I could see Claremont do it, to bring familiarity for Alan Davis on UXM. And yes, Excalibur never would have happened. It sounds so odd now that Alan Davis would say NO to such a big gig like UNCANNY. Does Alan worry a lot?



I think this adventure, along with Logan's stopping Rachel Summers from cold-bloodedly killing Selene, marks Logan as the conscience of the X-Men. WHO WOULD HAVE EVER THOUGHT? I wonder though, was Logan's real body cloned by the Crystal of Ultimate Vision? It looked like his original physical body died, and he was cloned/resurrected into a new body. Plus, there is a hint here this Crystal is tied into the M'Kraan Crystal. I love little connections like that!
David,if this is a new body it would present a few points:

--Firstly,over the last 30 issues or so there has been a suggestion that Wolverine had overdone it and his healing factor was beginning to reach limits because of the heavy damage he had taken.A new body would instantly solve this problem so we should have a new energised Wolverine on board.
--Secondly,a body generation from a hypercharged healing factor would not regenerate the adamantium claws.So,it's perhaps suggested that Wolveine himself regenrates the claws by choice before he then rejects the Crystal's power.

[limerick]

edit........

[david r]

David,if this is a new body it would present a few points:

--Firstly,over the last 30 issues or so there has been a suggestion that Wolverine had overdone it and his healing factor was beginning to reach limits because of the heavy damage he had taken.A new body would instantly solve this problem so we should have a new energised Wolverine on board.

That makes sense. But it's also possible the Crystal of Ultimate Vision created an exact duplicate of his previous body---damage and all. But it was an awesome scene, and otherworldly seeing Wolverine (a very grounded character), floating in the air unto a God.

--Secondly,a body generation from a hypercharged healing factor would not regenerate the adamantium claws.So,it's perhaps suggested that Wolveine himself regenrates the claws by choice before he then rejects the Crystal's power.

Interesting. I'm sure Logan would prefer to keep his adamantium claws. I wouldn't want to give them up. I couldn't tell if Logan has any "say-so" in how the Crystal regenerated him.

_______________________________________________
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d91/CicadaStar/Inside%20The%20Cosmic%20Cube/Wolverine-Cosmic-a.jpg

Wolverine plastered, from Annual 11:

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d91/CicadaStar/Inside%20The%20Cosmic%20Cube/WolverineDrunk.jpg

No comments on Rolo's first kiss? It was quite surprising:

http://gallery.xcave.net/Images/comics/marvel/rolo/UncannyAnnual11_KISS.jpg

[wolvie616]

this was ther first x men book i read!. it was in a collection, along with new miutatns annual 2 and 3, sabrettoth vs wolverine, this, and the first appearance of stonewall, sabre, and crimson dynamo....

i love this annual, the reason i love wolverine!

[limerick]

Wolverine plastered, from Annual 11:

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d91/CicadaStar/Inside%20The%20Cosmic%20Cube/WolverineDrunk.jpg


Maybe Wolverine suffers from Bono complex----i.e. always wearing high heels to make himself look taller!Or maybe they're just boots to fit in with his general cowboy style of dressing.

[limerick]

this was ther first x men book i read!. it was in a collection, along with new miutatns annual 2 and 3, sabrettoth vs wolverine, this, and the first appearance of stonewall, sabre, and crimson dynamo....

i love this annual, the reason i love wolverine!
I can see why you'd be a Wolvie fan if this was your first x-book.He really is "THE MAN".

[limerick]

David R.: "Interesting. I'm sure Logan would prefer to keep his adamantium claws. I wouldn't want to give them up. I couldn't tell if Logan has any "say-so" in how the Crystal regenerated him.""

David,if you look at page 38 just after Wolverine has been regenerated,in the second panel he glances at his hands while thinking of a way to destroy the crystal.As hehas just said he has the power to "transform,.....shape......heal....destroy".So it would take just a thought to regenerate his adamantium.It could be interpreted that this is what happens in the next panel---he's not just unsheathing his claws-----he's actually regenerating them.(the claws do seem especially shiney as if to donate they are new!)
It's just a theory ,one I'm not sure is true or not.I don't think it's hugely important.

[fishtaco]

Loved that issue. It was good of Wolverine to turn down all that power he was offered in the page posted above. And Alan Davis's art was as good as ever.

[Nevets F]

Wow...it's Fishtaco. Been a long time since I have seen a post from you.

[limerick]

Hey Steve----What happened to Alpha Thread?!!:biggrin:

[david r]

David,if you look at page 38 just after Wolverine has been regenerated,in the second panel he glances at his hands while thinking of a way to destroy the crystal.As hehas just said he has the power to "transform,.....shape......heal....destroy".So it would take just a thought to regenerate his adamantium.It could be interpreted that this is what happens in the next panel---he's not just unsheathing his claws-----he's actually regenerating them.(the claws do seem especially shiney as if to donate they are new!)
It's just a theory ,one I'm not sure is true or not.I don't think it's hugely important.

I think you may be correct. Since the adamantium is not actually a natural part of his body, Wolverine regenerates them by using his Godlike powers. It seems the only thing Logan used the power for. It does make sense.

I also wondered how Wolverine's claws could destroy such a powerful item as the Crystal of Ultimate Vision? Logan shatters it with his claws, but if this Crystal is as mighty as the M'Kraan Crystal, I doubt he could destroy it. I suspect it was a mere illusion, the Crystal *wanting* Logan to think it was destroyed. The Crystal must have recreated itself, along with the Citadel, on that last page.

[david r]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/31034281512.2.GIF

Fantastic Four vs. the X-Men #2

"Truths & Consequences"

Another gorgeous cover, in a highly memorable mini series. The shocking truth of Reed Richards and his State University journal is revealed. Wolverine nearly slashes off Mr. Fantastic's head. Rogue kisses the Thing! And Doctor Doom appears!

Wolverine is about to slice Reed Richards to death, on a Muir Island runway. Mr. Fantastic is stretching to escape Logan's lethal claws. The confrontation escalates as the Fantastic Four (Thing, Human Torch and She-Hulk) begin fighting the X-Men. Johnny Storm lashes out with his flame, and mistakenly burns Storm's arm. Very badly. Rogue kisses the Thing and knocks Ben Grimm out; while also absorbing his rock-like powers and appearance! The She-Hulk grabs Wolverine by his arms and forces him off of Reed. Moira MacTaggert bandages up Storm's hurt arm, and she and Ororo stop the fracas. Just as emotions are cooling a bit, a robot appears on the runway. It is the messenger of his Latverian Highness.... Doctor Doom! Bow down before his obvious might!! Doom appears before the assembled heroes, in a transmission sent by the robot. Doom says he has been watching the X-Men since the Marauders attacked them, and knows of their recent plight. Doom is aware of Shadowcat's deteriorating condition, and proposes to help her. Doom can build the Molecular Reintegrator himself, since Reed Richards is unwilling to use it himself to save Kitty Pryde. All the X-Men need do..........is ask Doctor Doom for help.

As Doom's hologram disappears, the Fantastic Four bid goodbye. Ororo again asks for Reed's help, but Reed declines. She-Hulk lifts the unconscious bodies of the Thing and the Human Torch, and the FF depart. The X-Men are pretty PO'd at them, and Ororo thinks something else must be on Reed's mind. While Storm is hustled into the Muir Island infirmary to help her burn wound, the FF all gather in Four Freedoms Plaza. They have Reed Richards' State University Journal, and they want answers. Reed reads aloud from it, and they all learn that he may have planned the space flight into the cosmic rays (from the immortal Fantastic Four #1 ), ON PURPOSE, hoping the four of them would assume super-powers, and better fight crime and aliens. Ben, Sue and Johnny are beside themselves with anger and shock, that Reed could have callously planned this, knowing they might die by the Cosmic rays. The Thing is especially hurt, and leaves them, likely to never return. Johnny and Jennifer also depart, not knowing if they'll return. Could the origin of the Fantastic Four have all been a manipulation by Reed Richards??

On Muir Island, in one of the many rooms by a raging fire, the X-Men gather to decide how to proceed. Dazzler vehemently argues AGAINST taking Doctor Doom up on his offer. It's tantamount to making a deal with the Devil. Storm sits in a chair, the shadows of the fire glowing, and says she will act alone if need be. But Ororo wants to help Kitty Pryde at all costs. Wolverine says she won't go alone. And soon all the X-Men agree that they must take Doom up on his offer....no matter the cost to them.

My thoughts: The battle between these two classic Marvel teams was awesome. I'd say the X-Men won. The Fantastic Four seemed outnumbered. I like how tensions are rising high for both, and X-Men and FF alike are dealing with deeply emotional crises, which are hurting them to their core. I especially liked the reveal about Reed Richards. Really, HOW could someone as intelligent as Richards not realize the Cosmic Rays were deadly? This limited series supplies a startling answer. Another dark secret for a Marvel hero. I also enjoyed Doctor Doom's entrance, and it seemed in keeping with Doom's constant need to "better" Reed Richards. Overall, this is a quality mini. In both story and art.

[david r]

I'm having to go through this thread, and redo cover art, to my utter joy. :evilangry: As all the covers went blank!! It's a royal pain! There is a LOT to redo. But interesting to go back & read past comments. I didn't realize how often posters like Jimmy Starburst or Butters made comments back then.

I will have to do this for ALL these "From the Beginning" threads. Oooh, what I do for the X-Men............................................... ............................

[david r]

I've been thinking about the reveal in Uncanny X-Men #219 that the X-Men, using Psylocke's telepathy, mindwiped Havok. I find this a little disturbing. I'm not sure why they felt the need to treat Alex Summers this way. Seems to me Havok would have a hard time working with people who did that to him. Plus, I wonder if Brad Meltzer may have gotten inspiration for his DC Identity Crisis story from this.

Could Wolverine's absence during that time mean Logan attempted to prevent the mindwiping?? And Psylocke mindwiped him too? :eek: :biggrin:

[wolvie616]

I've been thinking about the reveal in Uncanny X-Men #219 that the X-Men, using Psylocke's telepathy, mindwiped Havok. I find this a little disturbing. I'm not sure why they felt the need to treat Alex Summers this way. Seems to me Havok would have a hard time working with people who did that to him. Plus, I wonder if Brad Meltzer may have gotten inspiration for his DC Identity Crisis story from this.

Could Wolverine's absence during that time mean Logan attempted to prevent the mindwiping?? And Psylocke mindwiped him too? :eek: :biggrin:

wolverine is immune telepathy....... during this time

[david r]

wolverine is immune telepathy....... during this time

Wolverine is immune? How so?

[wolvie616]

Wolverine is immune? How so?

well not immune david my man, but resistant.... and with the twisted memories he usually survuves this, a la hom?

[CallMeGeoff]

I never knew what this mini was about. I had always assumed that Kitty just sort of magically got better off panel. I've been trying to track it down, but to no avail. I might have to get it on the interwebs. Anyway, it sounds good. Thanks for enlightening me, David!!

[david r]

Anyway, it sounds good. Thanks for enlightening me, David!!

My pleasure, Geoff. You wrote out a song of inspiration for me. So this is the least I can do to repay you. :smile: (Even if it was from the Karate Kid!) :cool:

[limerick]

Thoughts on F.F. vs. The X-men #1:

--Claremont is amazing here.He handles the Fantastic Four effortlessly.Someone unfamilar with his history would have no way of knowing he was not the regular writer on F.F.In fact,this mini ,while telling important X-men related stories is essentially mainly a F.F. book.It's surprising that Claremontwas allowed tell a tale so crucial to F.F. history.I feel this book has events so important to both teams that ,really these stories should have been dealt with in the ongoing books.
--The cover is so striking----what's happening here?!Reed Richards as Doctor Doom?How can this be happening?And for him to have seemingly hurt Sue Richards?This cover is magnetic.
--The book is printed on higher quality paper to the standard Marvel books.This was my first experience(I think )of this type of paper---I wasn't a huge fan and at the time the extra cost hurt my empty teenage pocket!
--Terry Austin is such a gifted inker--Ilove any work he does on The X-men
--Alex looks quite the Nerd on page 9 with his Xavier's top and his Simon Cowell high-waist trousers.Rock on!
--Great to see Magneto acting like his old self on page 23.Oh,I nearly miss Magneto the omnipotent supervillain.

[david r]

Thoughts on F.F. vs. The X-men #1:

--Claremont is amazing here.He handles the Fantastic Four effortlessly.Someone unfamilar with his history would have no way of knowing he was not the regular writer on F.F.In fact,this mini ,while telling important X-men related stories is essentially mainly a F.F. book.It's surprising that Claremontwas allowed tell a tale so crucial to F.F. history.I feel this book has events so important to both teams that ,really these stories should have been dealt with in the ongoing books.

I agree, Chris Claremont does a superb job handling both teams. He found a cool angle: Reed Richards' dark secret! :evilsmile:

--The book is printed on higher quality paper to the standard Marvel books.This was my first experience(I think )of this type of paper---I wasn't a huge fan and at the time the extra cost hurt my empty teenage pocket!

I always liked this paper. Wasn't it Baxter paper, or something? Marvel was experimenting with glossier paper. I agree with you Limerick, the $1.50 price was high for late 1986/early 1987 (when FF vs. X-Men came out.)

--Terry Austin is such a gifted inker--Ilove any work he does on The X-men

No doubt about it. Terry Austin is superlative. And no thoughts on Jon Bogdanove's delicious art? I really like it.

--Great to see Magneto acting like his old self on page 23.Oh,I nearly miss Magneto the omnipotent supervillain.

I was wondering who was watching the New Mutants, in Magneto's absence? I also liked how Storm gets burned in #2. I'd always wondered *how* Ororo could lead the X-Men without super-powers. Wouldn't she get hurt? Well, in this story, Ororo DOES get hurt. Badly burned by the Human Torch on her left arm. I'm glad this precarious situation was finally addressed; it was bound to happen.

[david r]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/31034281512.3.GIF

Fantastic Four vs. the X-Men #3

"By the Soul's Darkest Light"

This essential mini-series continues, as two of Marvel's classic teams face off. Doctor Doom brings the mutants to his Latverian Castle, to help Storm and Shadowcat. Will the X-Men sell their souls to him? It's a dark, brooding tale!

The Latverian Monarch Doctor Doom (some would say, dictator ) heals Storm's badly burned arm in the opening sequence. Using his "unparalleled intellect". Wolverine, Psylocke and Magneto watch the proceedings to ensure nothing untoward happens to Ororo. Meanwhile, the newer additions (Havok, Longshot and Dazzler) stand atop Castle Doom and remark on the beauty of the Latverian forest. Rogue goes for a shopping trip to the nearest town. A tussle with Doom's robotic guards ensues. Meanwhile, Kitty Pryde, trapped in her ghost form, decides to end her life! In a gut-wrenching scene, Kitty phases out of her protective tube and stands on a precipice of Castle Doom! Kitty plans to watch the sunrise, and then allow her molecules to escape into the wind. Ending her torment, and the X-Men's soul-searing. Little Franklin Richards is watching in his astral form (Franklin's actual body is asleep at Four Freedoms Plaza.) Franklin realizes what Kitty is preparing to do (commit suicide) and Franklin begins pleading and crying with her to stop. His face lined with tears, Franklin pleads for Kitty to NOT DO IT! Somehow, Kitty begins to hear Franklin's anguished cries. As the X-Men race up to rescue her, they bound into her room.............and find Kitty safely back inside her protective tube. With Franklin Richards curled up alongside the tube, both their hands touching. Lockheed watches with approval. It is a beautiful shot, and emotional scene. And high-point of the issue.

The reader now travels to Manhattan, and the large Four Freedoms Plaza, home to the world reknowned Fantastic Four. Reed Richards is gripped with despair over the revelations found in his old State University Journal. Reed finds his son, Franklin, in bed having a nightmare. (We know what he's dreaming about!) Reed comforts the boy, and as Franklin curls up in his arms, Reed bursts out in tears. His wife, Sue Richards, sees him with their son, and it breaks her heart. Right then and there, Susan believes whoever the man was who wrote those horrible things in the Journal book, it IS NOT the man she married or is father to their child. Sue and Reed make up. Meanwhile, Ben Grimm the Thing wanders around New York and Yancy Street. Ben spends hours at a local pub, filled with doubt and anger over learning his best friend caused his deformity. But after saving a baby in a truck collision crash, Ben Grimm realizes he can do something few people can. The Thing can save lives! The Human Torch likewise feels he LIKES his flame power, and his anger at Reed Richards lessens. Soon enough, the entire Fantastic Four are back together in their HQ, with Reed deciding his WILL help Shadowcat and save her life! Franklin Richards runs in and is overjoyed with the good feelings.

My thoughts: Arguably the best issue yet of this limited series. It was a more Fantastic Four-centric issue, and I'm amazed how deftly Chris Claremont writes Marvel's First Family. I concur with Limerick, Claremont handles the FF well. As well as young Franklin Richards. I found the scene where Reed breaks into tears while holding Franklin, on Page 12, very illuminating. I suspect those tears flow NOT because of his "dark secret", but because Reed finally realizes he's been ignoring his son. As we saw in #1, Reed spends more time with his toys and machines, than with his inquisitive Franklin---and on Page 12 holding Franklin in his arms, Richards comes to the realization the most important thing in his life isn't his technology. It is the love of his only child. A wonderfully depicted scene. But the stand-out moment was Franklin Richards saving Kitty from suicide. Absolutely spot on and emotionally charged; I challenge anyone to read that scene and not be moved by the final panel, when the X-Men break into the room and find Shadowcat and Franklin together. A classic moment in a classic mini.

[Valjean999]

I loved this mini. Its one of my favorites of all time, all these years later. Perfect mix of the two teams, IMO.

[CJ Lentze]

You know... I've never read the Fantastic Four because the premise and the characters don't draw me... So I don't have the reference material to compare how Chris Claremont writes the team to how other writers have written them. But if you guys say he handles them well, I can only believe you.


It's an unusual little mini, that focuses on (some of) the characters
of the teams, rather than be an action driven team-up story. In this third issue, it's already clear that the theme of the story is "people change, we're never the exact same person from one day to the next". Whether it's Reed Richards, or Ben Grimm, or Magneto and his turn to the good side...

My favourite part of the issue was Grimm's rescue of the child, and the praise he gets from mother and police officers alike.

[limerick]

thoughts on F.F. vs. The X-men #2:

--Wolverine on splash page--how does he manage to spit sideways like that.That drool should be hitting Mr Fantastic right in the face.
--Page 2--I never realised the Thing was so powerful .He creates a shockwave by clapping his hands together which is strong enough to blow Magneto right off his feet.That's some serious power-way beyond any X-man's physical strength.
--Jon Bogdanove does a great tribute to Jack Kirby in the flashback scene on page 19.That really looks like it was pulled from an early lee/kirby F.F. issue.
--I'm surprised Storm's history (from Uncanny circa #145)with Doom never gets a mention.He really messed her around.

[david r]

Yes, Chris Claremont writes the Fantastic Four well. As well as Franklin Richards and Doctor Doom. You know, I'm wondering if Franklin Richards was destined to join Charles Xavier's School? In #3, Psylocke senses tremendous power emanating from Franklin. I wonder if Reed and Susan might have sent Franklin to the mutant school, since he is a mutant.

Limerick, the Thing is extremely powerful. I would say Colossus is on the same power level as Grimm. Probably Rogue, too. However, against the Incredible Hulk, you'd better pass the Thing some band-aids. :wink:

Oh yeah, that Jack Kirby flashback scene from Page 19 was AWESOME! Jon Bogdanove gets Kirby's classic look exactly, and it was only fitting because it was the FF's origin retold. He was obviously making a tribute to "King" Kirby, and it was beautiful.

My only quibble with FF vs. X-Men #3 was the Fantastic Four re-united a little too easily, at the end. I suspect Ben and Johnny would have kept a grudge against Reed awhile longer.

[david r]

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/thumb/8/8e/Fantastic_Four003.jpg/416px-Fantastic_Four003.jpg

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/thumb/0/08/DrDoom1221.JPG/356px-DrDoom1221.JPG

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/e/e2/Thing_001.gif

[limerick]

Thoughts on F.F. Vs. X-men #3:

--Poor Rogue.Her "Ace threads"(can't say I agree) don't last long and after a couple of minutes against Dooms' droids her clothes end up in tatters.In fact it's becoming a recurring theme that Rogue's clothes disintegrate during battle and she ends up with rags which just cover the important places (a la Hulk).I'm not complaining--I'm all for Rogue with as little clothing as possible.:wink:
--Again I'm surprised at Storms civil attitude to Doom considering their past.She's either very forgiving or willing to put a front on to keep Doom sweet until he's helped out with Kitty.
--I had forgotten completely about Kitty almost attempting suicide.It's shocking and very out of character for her.I alwaysthought she was a real fighter and would never give in.
--Is this a new manifestation of his powers for Franklin whenb Kitty can see him?Or can his Pscho-projection be seen always.I'm quite unfamiliar with his powers.
--Ben Grimm certaily is an interesting character and there is some interesting insight into him on pages 15-19.In fact my first Marvel book was a reprint of X- men #5 & #6(Lee/Kirby)andI was hooked instsntly.But a few weeks later I read another reprint of The F.F.'s first encounter with the Silver Surfer and it was brilliant.If I had read that first I may have become a F.F. devotee rather than the X-men.
--The issue finishes on a surprisingly upbeat note.It doesn't really set up any cliffhanger for the final issue which is unusual.You almost feel the mini could finish right there.

[david r]

Thoughts on F.F. Vs. X-men #3:
--Again I'm surprised at Storms civil attitude to Doom considering their past.She's either very forgiving or willing to put a front on to keep Doom sweet until he's helped out with Kitty.

Storm understands how important saving Kitty Pryde is. She is willing to silence her own feelings for Doctor Doom for the sake of Kitty. Ororo loves her.

--I had forgotten completely about Kitty almost attempting suicide.It's shocking and very out of character for her.I alwaysthought she was a real fighter and would never give in.

Kitty is a fighter but she saw the end coming. I think she had the best intentions of the X-Men at heart- ie. not wanting them to sell their souls to Doom. It was a very touching scene.

--Is this a new manifestation of his powers for Franklin whenb Kitty can see him?Or can his Pscho-projection be seen always.I'm quite unfamiliar with his powers.

I felt Franklin's powers may have "mutated" in this story. His astral form was invisible at first, but Franklin's emotions became so heated, his astral form became visible. And has stayed that way ever since. He is a fascinating character.

--Ben Grimm certaily is an interesting character and there is some interesting insight into him on pages 15-19.In fact my first Marvel book was a reprint of X- men #5 & #6(Lee/Kirby)andI was hooked instsntly.But a few weeks later I read another reprint of The F.F.'s first encounter with the Silver Surfer and it was brilliant.If I had read that first I may have become a F.F. devotee rather than the X-men.

It's interesting you say that, as my first comic ever was actually an issue of Fantastic Four. I discovered the FF first, and then X-Men about 2 months later, but I became a hardcore FF fan before becoming X-Men obsessed. :smile: So this mini is a special treat for me.

--The issue finishes on a surprisingly upbeat note.It doesn't really set up any cliffhanger for the final issue which is unusual.You almost feel the mini could finish right there.

You have a point there. I couldn't understand the significance of Reed's coffee mug being knocked off the table, in the last panel. Any ideas??

[david r]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/31034281512.4.GIF

Fantastic Four vs. the X-Men #4

"A Matter of Faith"

Kitty Pryde is close to death, her physical body discorporating as a living ghost. Only Psylocke's telepathy is keeping Kitty's conscious mind alive. Franklin Richards' astral form and Lockheed keep guard over her, inside her protective tube locked away in Castle Doom. A definite bond is formed here between Kitty and Franklin. Meanwhile, the Fantastic Four are flying in their awesome jet to Latveria, Reed Richards prepared to save Kitty. But Reed's inner demons continue to haunt him,vis a vis his University journal. Johnny Storm is eaten up inside over burning Storm's arm, as well. The X-Men, that outlaw band of mutant heroes, are training in the lush forests around Castle Doom. Magneto and Storm have a conversation, where the Master of Magnetism reminisces about his lost family. The Latverian forest of eastern Europe must remind him of his homeland. Magneto recalls the murder of his parents and sister by German soldiers, in World War II. He then recalls the Soviet city of Vinnitsa, and the death of his beloved daughter, Anya. She died in a fire and Magneto was unable to save her. Magneto used his mutant power to save himself and his wife, but the crowds wanted Magneto to die as well, as a mutant. His wife Magda left him, in shock and despair. Magneto is so engrossed in his memories he lashes out with his awe-inspiring power, and grabs hold of a Doombot. Magneto twists the metal into a full-scale sized model of Magda and Anya. Magneto touches his hand to Magda's cheek.

An aerial project of Doctor Doom shoots out from Castle Doom, and explodes over Magneto and Storm. Doom declares Magneto a fool for using his magnetic powers, which are disrupting Doom's delicate circuitry in saving Shadowcat. At that instant, the Fantastic Four's jet comes flying over the forest. Once landed, the X-Men arrive and are less than happy to see Reed Richards and his teammates. Sure enough, fighting breaks out. The Thing bangs a fist on Wolverine's head and knocks him senseless. Limerick will be glad to read that Rogue loses her clothes completely in the fight! LOL! After much scrapping, Franklin Richards' innocent plea finally ends it. Reed agrees to try to help Shadowcat, but the Journal and his own doubts continue to plague him.

Both teams, plus Doom, stand in Shadowcat's chamber. Psylocke is sweating with exhaustion, as Kitty's ghost form is disappearing, and her conscious mind is barely hanging on with Betsy's help. Doom and Reed argue over details of the delicate mechanical operation needed to save Kitty. And Doom washes his hands of it, allowing Reed to try to save Kitty himself. Doctor Doom takes delight in Reed sweating, gripped with self doubt over saving Kitty. Can Reed do it? Has the revelation of his Journal robbed Mr. Fantastic of his determination. After many moments, and the X-Men growing more tense, Reed finds his resolve, and saves Kitty. It is a very sweat-inducing, suspense filled sequence. The fabulous story ends with a dinner get-together between the FF, X-Men and Doctor Doom. Musicians play in the corner, as Dazzler supplies a beautiful light dance in the eloquently decored room in Castle Doom. Storm and Reed come to terms with what happened, and the 2 super-teams are friends again. Magneto apologizes for his behavior, and hopes Reed can give the once super-villain a second chance. Reed and Magneto shake hands. The denoument ends with Susan Richards confronting Doctor Doom at the dinner table, accusing him of planting Reed's State University Journal himself. As Doom eats cavier in debonair fashion, Susan comes close to physically assaulting Doom over what he did. Doom never admits to writing and planting the Journal himself, but the reader strongly senses Reed Richards NEVER wrote that Journal. And thus, Reed is absolved of the revelations therein. Doom has given his word no harm will come to his "guests", so Susan walks away from him, announcing the heroes have won. The adventure ends with Franklin and Kitty Pryde together, in his protective tube. Kitty is still in ghost form, but she will slowly get better and become a normal human being. A friendship has formed between Pryde and Richards, and the 2 dance together.

My thoughts: This is an essential mini-series for all X-Men fans. It was that good. Another fallout of the Mutant Massacre (Kitty's dilemma) leads to a superb story facing the X-Men and Fantastic Four against one another. Absolutely spot on writing by Chris Claremont, handling a large cast of characters. Likewise, Claremont even gets time to open up Magneto and Doctor Doom, all in a mere four issues. I was especially moved by Magneto's revelation here in #4, over his tortured past. Jon Bogdanove's art has a Disney-esque quality to it, which I enjoyed a lot. Whatever happened to Bogdanove? He is a masterful artist here. I felt he captured all these heroes extremely well, with not a note off. The "dark secret" of Reed Richards was handled excellently and had a ring of truth. *HOW* could someone as intelligent as Reed Richards have forgotten the dangers of Cosmic Rays? Which turned his friends and himself into the Fantastic Four? This limited series gave us the devastating answer. It was very well plotted and played out in suspenseful fashion. This whole story should rank as one of the best X-Men minis ever. Great work by all involved. Including Terry Austin, Tom Orzechowski and Glynis Oliver.

[limerick]

David R.:You have a point there. I couldn't understand the significance of Reed's coffee mug being knocked off the table, in the last panel. Any ideas??[/QUOTE]

--Yes,there seems to be a point being made here but it's not exactly clear what.Perhaps it is that some things are destined to happen no matter what precautions are taken.It is unusual--well spotted!

[limerick]

Thoughts on F.F. Vs. The X-men #4:

--I forget sometimes how young Kitty was back then--only 14(page 1).Certainly,any relationship Peter had with her was a bit inappropriate.She was probably only 13 back then.It's a bit weird.
--The opening scene with Franklin and Kitty is quite touching--Franklin's a good kid.
--See what I mean about Rogue's outfits---she's naked again!
--There's an interesting panel on page 22 where on being threatened by She-Hulk ,it is suggested that Storm may in sme way be responsible for the lightning bolt in the sky which follows.There has been a few hints in past issues at Storm subconciously affecting the weather.Could it be a sign of her powers returning?
--This mini is a great story but more a great F.F. story than a great X-men story.The X-men play only secondary roles and the main points of interest from an X-men point of view are the saving of Kitty and the retelling of the Magneto backstory from the Classic X-men.Also ,Magneto builds some bridges with the F.F..And,of course Rogue got NAKED!!!Yeah!!

[david r]

--There's an interesting panel on page 22 where on being threatened by She-Hulk ,it is suggested that Storm may in sme way be responsible for the lightning bolt in the sky which follows.There has been a few hints in past issues at Storm subconciously affecting the weather.Could it be a sign of her powers returning?

You are right! There have been hints over the last year of Storm still controlling the weather. Or, it could be her sorcerous powers appearing.

--This mini is a great story but more a great F.F. story than a great X-men story.The X-men play only secondary roles and the main points of interest from an X-men point of view are the saving of Kitty and the retelling of the Magneto backstory from the Classic X-men.Also ,Magneto builds some bridges with the F.F..And,of course Rogue got NAKED!!!Yeah!!

This feels more like a Fantastic Four tale, but I felt the X-Men still had a major role to play. The climax to Kitty Pryde's subplot makes X-FF an important mini for the mutants, IMO. As well as having excellent artwork and writing.

Another thing I'd like to mention, near the end of #4, Susan Richards says to Doctor Doom, "You know, my son had a prophetic dream--a sort of harbinger of this whole adventure. In it, he saw you and Reed merge into one." I couldn't help but read that and think of Chris Claremont's 1998-2000 Fantastic Four run as ongoing writer. Where something very similiar to this happens between Reed and Victor von Doom and wonder if Franklin Richards' dream was a harbinger of events coming much later.

[Imraith Nimphais]

You are right! There have been hints over the last year of Storm still controlling the weather. Or, it could be her sorcerous powers appearing.

"Controlling" might be too strng a word, David. It will be explained in due time...when this happens, needless to say, I await your review with bated breath.:biggrin:

As for Kitty and Poitr's "relationship"...I never viewed it as anything more than just a mutual "teenage crush"...mainly on Kitty's part...nothing inappropriate abut that...it's a teenage thing, apparently. And from wot I can recall...apart from that kiss they shared (in Ororo's attic, which was intigated by Kitty (the hussy!...:-)), btw.) things never got beyond that, physically. Poitr's naivete in all this is quite charming...I think a lot of people read too much into it (much like Ororo and Yukio's "relationship")

[Yogaflame]

I think its also important to remember how young Piotr(and all the X-Men in general) are at this point. In that bar fight between Juggernaut and Colossus, Piotr had just turned 19, Kitty was 14 and a half or so then. So, while 4-5 years may seem a bit much, its like a freshman dating a senior, and considering how naive Piotr is and how advanced and mature Kitty is, I don't see that as a huge gap. And yeah, they just had relations in Astonishing for the first time, so its not like anything crazy was going on. In fact, Piotr turned Kitty down when they were in space and infected with Brood eggs, so give the man some credit.

[MartinRedmond]

Piotr had just turned 19, Kitty was 14 and a half or so then.

I think the problem is he's never really been drawn to look 19. So even if he's 19, I always thought he was much older than that.

[Yogaflame]

Yeah, Piotr and Kurt were like 16 and 17/18 respectively when they joined. Storm was Cyke and Jean's age. Wolvie's obviously a little more difficult to age and Banshee was the oldest of that click with a teenage daughter putting him in his late 30's/early 40's. Rogue was 17 when she joined up, and Rachael is around that age too. Havok is a few years younger than Cyke and Psylocke is a bit older than Storm/Jean/Cyke by a year or two or three. Yeah, the X-Men were pretty young, and it makes sense when you think about it. Look at how Kurt acts, that is totally a young hotshot full of bravado, idolizing movie stars and wanting adventure. Colossus was a simple farmboy tossed into an crazy life of galaxy-spanning battles and complex relationships far exceeding his communal farm upbringing. I could go on and on.

[Imraith Nimphais]

I think its also important to remember how young Piotr(and all the X-Men in general) are at this point. In that bar fight between Juggernaut and Colossus, Piotr had just turned 19, Kitty was 14 and a half or so then. So, while 4-5 years may seem a bit much, its like a freshman dating a senior, and considering how naive Piotr is and how advanced and mature Kitty is, I don't see that as a huge gap. And yeah, they just had relations in Astonishing for the first time, so its not like anything crazy was going on. In fact, Piotr turned Kitty down when they were in space and infected with Brood eggs, so give the man some credit.

Exactement, monsieur!

[david r]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.220.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #220

"Unfinished Business"

It's been 3 years since "Lifedeath". This issue rolls back the clock, and let's the reader relive those merry days of Forge, Naze and Storm's heartbreak. (She loses her powers!!) Ororo suspects her powers are NOT gone completely,and wants the Maker, Forge, to help her regain them.

Where does this issue start? It's not Muir Island or Latveria (where I last saw this team.) It appears to be the Colorado Mountains. Wolverine and Storm stand atop a high mountain, and Ororo confesses she believes her weather powers are not gone for good. She asks Logan to assume leadership of the Uncanny team while she takes a leave of absence. Wolverine does not feel he's up to the job, but Storm finally talks him into it. They both seem to have deep respect for each other, and Logan stands down to her wishes. Wolverine looks more "cowboy" than ever with this new hat he has.

Storm returns to Dallas, Texas. This is where she learned Forge had built the gun which robbed her of her awesome powers. She fell in love with him, as well. Plus, she fought the Dire Wraiths there, and won. Strangely, it was raining then, and is raining now, too. Ororo finds Forge's huge skyscraper home deserted. Forge seems to have left, leaving the place a pigsty. Especially his penthouse. Several displays adorn the place, all with Ororo's likeness. Ororo battles the buildings defences, lasers and the like. She finds cameras which "Replay" her meetings with Forge, back in Uncanny X-Men #186. But nowhere is Forge found. Who she DOES find is the old Native American Indian named Naze, who has been busy toying with Forge's Eagles Nest. Naze says Forge is the key to stopping an "Adversary" . Forge is the only person who can truly stop this villain. Ororo at first has no interest in going in search of Forge (her hate and attraction to him being equal) but Naze finally talks Ororo into it. However, in the final panel, Naze turns and smiles at the reader. It is not the kind of smile you want an ally to be using! The dude looks evil!

My thoughts: This was a good issue, with nice Marc Silvestri artwork. However, it felt more like Marvel wanted to bring readers up to date on events from 1984, than an original story. Specifically events from UXM #186-188. I'm sure new readers would have been clueless if Forge and Naze had just dropped in out of the blue, and UXM #220 cleverly updates what transpired 3 years prior to #220, while still supplying the action. I liked the scene with Wolverine and Storm and wonder how Logan will do being the team leader. His confidence seems to have been broken since the Mutant Massacre. Plus, wasn't Naze possessed by an evil entity? His new partnership with Storm will probably end in a bad way.

[wolvie616]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.220.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #220

"Unfinished Business"

It's been 3 years since "Lifedeath". This issue rolls back the clock, and let's the reader relive those merry days of Forge, Naze and Storm's heartbreak. (She loses her powers!!) Ororo suspects her powers are NOT gone completely,and wants the Maker, Forge, to help her regain them.

Where does this issue start? It's not Muir Island or Latveria (where I last saw this team.) It appears to be the Colorado Mountain. Wolverine and Storm stand atop a high mountain, and Ororo confesses she believes her weather powers are not gone for good. She asks Logan to assume leadership of the Uncanny team while she takes a leave of absence. Wolverine does not feel he's up to the job, but Storm finally talks him into it. They both seem to have deep respect for each other, and Logan stands down to her wishes. Wolverine looks more "cowboy" than ever with this new hat he has.



WOLVERINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Imraith Nimphais]

STORM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LET THE GOOD TIMES BEGIN!!!!!(again!)....YAY!!!!!!
I really liked this "set-up" issue, mainly for the art...sure, I knew the story from before, but this was a refreshing re-telling and a satisfactory continuation of a long-awaited plot-thread. Silvestri's Storm is as strikingly beauty-full...certainly more feminine and not as androgynous...as she is different from any other artist rendition prior.

[MartinRedmond]

Silvestri Storm is the hottest. Especially in this issue. I keep it by the bed.

[worstblogever]

Naze, last we saw, was left with the Dire Wraiths to become their victim and be replaced by one, right? Or is that just about to be revealed? Because I know there's still more revelations coming on that front...

After doing the "Dirty Deeds w/ Forge" thread, this really is good timing for me, going into Storm/Forge drama.

[limerick]

David R.---thanks for the vote on x-posters.Much appreciated but undeserved!And you managed to dig up the Limerick county crest-thanks for that--that was tres cool!

Thoughts on #220:
--Re:the cover.Forge,that is so not a good look.Especially the drool!
--The first three pages are an oddity.It basically sums up Forges and Storms relationship(to date)in a very abstract way.So any benefit to new readers is lost--they could not know what was happening unless familiar with the 186-188 storyline.It follows that anyone who understands the references does not need to have the backstory retold.So it's nicely done(pages1-3)but unfortunately a little pointless.
--David you raise a good point here regarding the chronological events of the recent X-books.This issue takes place directly following on from #219 where Wolverine was missing.He had obviously taken a break following his near breakdown.But where does Annual #11 fit in since I cannot see any period where Havok should have been resident in the X-mansion while Wolverine was there.As far as I can make out Wolverine was absent from after the events of #216.So wolverine doesn't return until after this issue---but Storm is also present in Annual #11.I just can't figure out where it fits in.I can't see a period where Havok,Storm and Wolverine would all be present in the X-mansion as depicted in the Annual.Can anyone help?!David,Lucky One,WBE,Geoff??:confused:
--Again David,you make a good point about the flashback nature of this issue.It is cleverly done,though ,using Forges imaging projectors as a way of presenting Storms past to her.

[david r]

Imraith Nimphais, Storm certainly does look beauty-full in #220. Especially laid out in her leather, and her mohawk hair is growing longer in the back. And those long legs........

I keep it by the bed.

Martin, that made me burst out with laughter!

Worstblogever, I was under the impression that Naze was possessed by a Dire Wraith in #187, but then BOTH were seized by an unknown "entity". Who the entity is remains unknown.

Limerick, As for Annual 11 I assumed Wolverine had returned from his absence, right before the Annual. Thus, Havok, Storm and Wolverine are all there AFTER UXM #219. What I wondered about was *WHY* the X-Men are back at the Mansion, when they clearly left for Muir Island. My No-Prize answer is this: Notice Magneto & the New Mutants DO NOT APPEAR at the Mansion in Annual 11? They're completely absent. I posit they left on a field trip, and Magneto asked Storm's team to return to the Mansion for a few days. Headmaster Magneto not wanting to leave the School unattended for so many days. And thus, Wolverine returned and the whole team were together in time for Horde. :smile:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/72/Limerick.Shield.png

As for the Limerick crest, it looks good. I wish we had something like that.

[Darkchylde]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.220.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #220

"Unfinished Business"

It's been 3 years since "Lifedeath". This issue rolls back the clock, and let's the reader relive those merry days of Forge, Naze and Storm's heartbreak. (She loses her powers!!) Ororo suspects her powers are NOT gone completely,and wants the Maker, Forge, to help her regain them.

Where does this issue start? It's not Muir Island or Latveria (where I last saw this team.) It appears to be the Colorado Mountains. Wolverine and Storm stand atop a high mountain, and Ororo confesses she believes her weather powers are not gone for good. She asks Logan to assume leadership of the Uncanny team while she takes a leave of absence. Wolverine does not feel he's up to the job, but Storm finally talks him into it. They both seem to have deep respect for each other, and Logan stands down to her wishes. Wolverine looks more "cowboy" than ever with this new hat he has.

Storm returns to Dallas, Texas. This is where she learned Forge had built the gun which robbed her of her awesome powers. She fell in love with him, as well. Plus, she fought the Dire Wraiths there, and won. Strangely, it was raining then, and is raining now, too. Ororo finds Forge's huge skyscraper home deserted. Forge seems to have left, leaving the place a pigsty. Especially his penthouse. Several displays adorn the place, all with Ororo's likeness. Ororo battles the buildings defences, lasers and the like. She finds cameras which "Replay" her meetings with Forge, back in Uncanny X-Men #186. But nowhere is Forge found. Who she DOES find is the old Native American Indian named Naze, who has been busy toying with Forge's Eagles Nest. Naze says Forge is the key to stopping an "Adversary" . Forge is the only person who can truly stop this villain. Ororo at first has no interest in going in search of Forge (her hate and attraction to him being equal) but Naze finally talks Ororo into it. However, in the final panel, Naze turns and smiles at the reader. It is not the kind of smile you want an ally to be using! The dude looks evil!

My thoughts: This was a good issue, with nice Marc Silvestri artwork. However, it felt more like Marvel wanted to bring readers up to date on events from 1984, than an original story. Specifically events from UXM #186-188. I'm sure new readers would have been clueless if Forge and Naze had just dropped in out of the blue, and UXM #220 cleverly updates what transpired 3 years prior to #220, while still supplying the action. I liked the scene with Wolverine and Storm and wonder how Logan will do being the team leader. His confidence seems to have been broken since the Mutant Massacre. Plus, wasn't Naze possessed by an evil entity? His new partnership with Storm will probably end in a bad way.

Nope, you are absolutely correct, David R. When Storm last saw Naze, he aided the X-Men (with help from Illyana Rasputin and Amanda Sefton) against the Dire Wraiths; but what was unbeknownst to any of them was that he became possessed by a powerful entity, one who plays a big role in the coming issues. The Adversary, and his plans, will soon be revealed.

[david r]

Darkchylde, I'm glad you concurred, because I thought it was strongly implied that Naze had been possessed. First by a Dire Wraith, and then by *something else*. I felt that is what happened. :smile: I find it interesting how this subplot went into hibernation for three years.

One thing I wonder about is Alex Summers. Havok just joined the X-Men, but has he called his lover, Lorna Dane, to see how she's doing? Alex must have found the telephone number off the hook, since their desert cabin was destroyed by the Marauders. Why isn't Alex going to find his lost Lorna, since he surely must be worried about her. Is this subplot going into hibernation too?

[Darkchylde]

Darkchylde, I'm glad you concurred, because I thought it was strongly implied that Naze had been possessed. First by a Dire Wraith, and then by *something else*. I felt that is what happened. :smile: I find it interesting how this subplot went into hibernation for three years.

One thing I wonder about is Alex Summers. Havok just joined the X-Men, but has he called his lover, Lorna Dane, to see how she's doing? Alex must have found the telephone number off the hook, since their desert cabin was destroyed by the Marauders. Why isn't Alex going to find his lost Lorna, since he surely must be worried about her. Is this subplot going into hibernation too?

Yeah, Claremont sure had a habit of letting plots simmer on the backburner before finally addressing them, huh? This may have been one of his longest-brewing ones, as the stuff with Forge, Naze, and the Adversary finally reaches a climax shortly (hang in there, it's really coming this time!).

In any case, your memory is indeed intact, David R. Naze, while looking for Forge to tell him about "something" (what we now know to be the Adversary), was possessed by a Dire Wraith, then later possessed by an even more powerful creature who subsumed both Naze's and the Wraith's personalities, and assumed control of Naze's body.

Who this thing is controlling Naze, what its plans are for Storm, Forge, and the rest of the world, and its connection to Forge's Adversary will all be revealed in the next half-dozen issues or so. The events of this book have an impact on The New Mutants series, too, especially on Illyana, whose personal story soon begins to pick up.

Also, the stuff with Alex and Lorna (now possessed by Malice) takes a hiatus - but it is by no means over...

[CallMeGeoff]

Love that cover!

I also particularly enjoy the Storm-Eagle mohawk. The other bird reminded me of the "Goodbye Blue Sky" scene from The Wall. Anybody? Anybody?

This issue does a great job reminding us of the backstory. Having Forge's penthouse retell it for those who missed it the first time (or have forgotten in the years since it happened) is pretty clever work.

I'm a big fan of the coming issues. I personally think Caremont gets his mojo back around this time and finally figures out where to go with the new team. For a while, it felt to me like the characters were just meandering around while Claremont tried to figure out what to do next. They haven't been bad issues, just lacking a clear direction. And honestly, after the Mutant Massacre, it was kind of nice to take it relatively easy for a while. But now it's time to kick it up a notch!

[limerick]

It's easy to forget that the X-men was off the scale sales wise at this point .This era seems to be rarely discussed in the various threads and can come across as a quiet period for the X-men but they really were No. 1 at this time.
I remember in any comic bookshops X-books would outnumber all other Marvels combined.They were just so popular.

[worstblogever]

One thing I wonder about is Alex Summers. Havok just joined the X-Men, but has he called his lover, Lorna Dane, to see how she's doing? Alex must have found the telephone number off the hook, since their desert cabin was destroyed by the Marauders. Why isn't Alex going to find his lost Lorna, since he surely must be worried about her. Is this subplot going into hibernation too?

This actually made it on Havok's list of "Dirty Deeds". Joining the X-Men in secret, and not telling Lorna. It'll be a callback, to be certain.

[david r]

But Limerick and Geoff, this era does have name, remember? It is called "THE CHANGING LOCATION,CHANGING LINE-UP,CHANGING ARTIST,(CLAREMONT SCRIPTED),MID-LATE 80'S" ERA. :biggrin: :smile: (I really thought that was cute.)

I can see why the book seems like it's meandering. I think the X-Men themselves were meandering, after the horrific Mutant Massacre. They were all shaken, even Wolverine and Storm. What I have found fascinating was the decisions made in the aftermath. "Plan Omega" and the like. It's like the Massacre was their Pearl Harbor, and they are now reeling from it. Trying to sink or swim in a more hostile, dangerous world. You sometimes make bad decisions when you're thinking from pure emotions.

Thanks for the info, Darkchylde & Worstblogever. Here is another question. Longshot! He joins, but there is no mention of Ricochet Rita. Or Qwark. Or the rebellion left behind in Mojoworld. Doesn't Longshot care? How can he spend all this time "having fun" with his new X-friends, will he's left behind the rebellion in the Wildways?

[worstblogever]

Thanks for the info, Darkchylde & Worstblogever. Here is another question. Longshot! He joins, but there is no mention of Ricochet Rita. Or Qwark. Or the rebellion left behind in Mojoworld. Doesn't Longshot care? How can he spend all this time "having fun" with his new X-friends, will he's left behind the rebellion in the Wildways?

Is it just me, or does the Mojoverse only come up for discussion in Longshot's mini, or the Annuals? Every other time we see Spiral or Longshot, they're scarcely mentioned in relation to the Mojoverse.

Hell Rachel Summers got taken by Spiral back in #209, right? Nothing new on that front. It's like, outside of Annuals, their link to their home dimension is an afterthought for years.

[david r]

Is it just me, or does the Mojoverse only come up for discussion in Longshot's mini, or the Annuals? Every other time we see Spiral or Longshot, they're scarcely mentioned in relation to the Mojoverse.


You have a point. The Mojoverse doesn't appear in the regular X-MEN book. I wonder why that was? Longshot hasn't mentioned his home ONCE since joining the X-Men. In the letters page of UXM #220, it mentions Ann Nocenti and Art Adams were putting together an 80-page Longshot Graphic Novel which shows the rebellion in the Mojoverse, and Mojo and Spiral. I wonder if the story was meant to continue here, but that Graphic Novel never saw the light of day.

Since we've talked about it, here is that Storm-Mohawk-Forge scene with the birds. I will hum that Pink Floyd song along with the artwork!:

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/pages/97792366288.220.P1.GIF

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/pages/97792366288.220.P2.GIF

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/pages/97792366288.220.P3.GIF

[CallMeGeoff]

But Limerick and Geoff, this era does have name, remember? It is called "THE CHANGING LOCATION,CHANGING LINE-UP,CHANGING ARTIST,(CLAREMONT SCRIPTED),MID-LATE 80'S" ERA. :biggrin: :smile: (I really thought that was cute.)

Haha! Yes! Of course, duh!

Thanks for the info, Darkchylde & Worstblogever. Here is another question. Longshot! He joins, but there is no mention of Ricochet Rita. Or Qwark. Or the rebellion left behind in Mojoworld. Doesn't Longshot care? How can he spend all this time "having fun" with his new X-friends, will he's left behind the rebellion in the Wildways?

I think his memory has been wiped, right? I don't think he remembers much about the Rebellion or Ricochet Rita. Maybe I made that up. Or maybe that comes up later on (if so, sorry for the spoilers).

Is it just me, or does the Mojoverse only come up for discussion in Longshot's mini, or the Annuals? Every other time we see Spiral or Longshot, they're scarcely mentioned in relation to the Mojoverse.

Hell Rachel Summers got taken by Spiral back in #209, right? Nothing new on that front. It's like, outside of Annuals, their link to their home dimension is an afterthought for years.

It's true. Maybe they thought the Mojoverse was too weird for the main book.

[Imraith Nimphais]

Ahhhh...those pages are pure poetry...lyrically, visually, allegorically...thanx fer the reminder David...seeing that image of Storm instantly brought to mind the UXM "Asgard" Annual and NM "Asgard" Special where Storm assumed a simialr form (thanx to Loki).

[Yogaflame]

It's easy to forget that the X-men was off the scale sales wise at this point .This era seems to be rarely discussed in the various threads and can come across as a quiet period for the X-men but they really were No. 1 at this time.
I remember in any comic bookshops X-books would outnumber all other Marvels combined.They were just so popular.

Uncanny 220-244 is one of my favorite runs, second only perhaps to the seminal works of Byrne and Claremont one hundred issues earlier or so. I love Silvestri's art and I love Fall of the Mutants and the upcoming adventures down under.

[limerick]

Uncanny 220-244 is one of my favorite runs, second only perhaps to the seminal works of Byrne and Claremont one hundred issues earlier or so. I love Silvestri's art and I love Fall of the Mutants and the upcoming adventures down under.
It took me a while to warm to Silvestri.But I did grow to like his work.It was great to have a regular artist back on the title.It took quite a while to decide on someone .From what David said earlier in the thread this may be due to Claremont trying to get Alan Davis to come on board.I do feel not having a regular artist can affect the flow of a book.Yogaflame,I'm surprised his run only lasted a couple of years.It seemed longer than that at the time.

[Imraith Nimphais]

Only a couple of years, indeed! It seems longer, Limerick because within that two year span look how many interesting and entertaining stories were told...the issues came out regularly and on time...Silvestri, with the help of the occaisional fill-in or two was prolific...he had a job and he did it to the best of his abilities...no wonder when we think of Uncanny X-men these are the runs that first come to mind...and happily so.
..."Oh! The anguish! Where have the X-Office of today sadly gone wrong?!"

[limerick]

Only a couple of years, indeed! It seems longer, Limerick because within that two year span look how many interesting and entertaining stories were told...the issues came out regularly and on time...Silvestri, with the help of the occaisional fill-in or two was prolific...he had a job and he did it to the best of his abilities...no wonder when we think of Uncanny X-men these are the runs that first come to mind...and happily so.
..."Oh! The anguish! Where have the X-Office of today sadly gone wrong?!"
LOL!That is so true!

[david r]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.221.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #221

"Death By Drowning"

1st appearance: Mr. Sinister

As you can see below, #221 introduces a new villain to the canon...Mister Sinister. Or Sinister, if you prefer. He looks to me like a cross between Colossus and Dracula. He is the mastermind behind the Marauders, and he wants Madelyne Pryor dead.

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/pages/97792366288.221.P1.GIF

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/pages/97792366288.221.P3.GIF

Poor Sabretooth. He finally met his match. And alas, Sinister has the yuckiest teeth I've seen so far in an X-book. plus, his name rhymes. Mister.......Mister......Sinister.

Sinister is not happy with his Marauders, that Madelyne Pryor survived being shot by Scalphunter. So he sends them out to finish the job. Meanwhile, the X-Men have returned to Charles Xavier's School, under the leadership of Wolverine. We learn Dazzler and Rogue still hate one another. But once Madelyne calls the mansion for assistance, Logan sends the squad to San Francisco to find her. Havok and Wolverine argue once there, but most of the issue takes up a prolonged battle in the hospital, between X-Men & Marauders. Our heroes are piping hot to avenge the Mutant Massacre on these bad boys. Maddie is saved, but not before Havok blasts the hospital (and Wolverine) with his power blasts! (See cover.) There is a spectacular sequence where Polaris, (possessed by Malice) snatches Rogue and Madelyne Pryor in a super-structure of steel beams...........and then hurtles them in San Francisco Bay. Dazzler sacrifices life and limb to rescue them, and does so. Nearly at the cost of Alison Blaire's life. This act seems to smooth over the angry feelings between Alison and Rogue. But Polaris floats above them in the bay, ready to strike!!

In the Grand Canyon, Rogue and Naze begin their descent into the largest hole on Earth. In their search of Forge. But something is seriously wrong with Naze.

My thoughts: I liked this second round between X-Men & the Marauders. And am glad Marvel didn't waste much time bringing them in conflict again. The Marauders have a lot to pay for. Mr. Sinister was crazy with his white skin, gnarly teeth and red eyes. Again, he reminds me of Colossus, oddly. But he really doesn't do a whole lot here. I like seeing Wolverine as team leader, and you can see him struggle a bit with this new duty. It was clever to see Wolverine switch roles. Now LOGAN IS LEADER, and a Summers (Havok) is arguing and second-guessing him. Sort of flipping the roles we used to see in Cyclops/Wolverine. I hope this conflict between Havok and Wolverine lasts; I bet Wolvie realizes it's a lot easier to be the rebel, than be the leader. I was also dazzled by the Rogue/Maddie moment where they sink into the Bay, and Dazzler rescues them. This was a inspired action scene, and though I doubt Alison could hold her breath that long, I liked seeing her save the day and she and Rogue coming closer. Overall, another superb action issue!

[limerick]

Hey,guys.Sorry for harping on about this but the continuity over the last few issues plus Annual #11,FF vs the X-men and FF vs. the Avengers really has me stumped.To sum up:

-#214 Dazzler joins team.
-#215Rogue,Psylocke,Dazzler and Longshot depart for Muir Isle with Kitty,Nightcrawler and Colossus.Wolverine and Storm wait in U.S.
-#216Ditto
-#217Ditto
-#218Ditto and Havok in New Mexico.
-#219Havok joins the X-men who are acting so secretive they meet Magneto in the Morlocks tunnels.Wolverine is absent.Dazz.,Longshot,Rogue and Psylocke have returned from Muir Isle.The X-men are avoiding Xavier's school to avoid detection.Their encounter with the F.F. could not have happened yet as Havok just joins team here.X-mens main priority is getting it on with the Marauders.
-Annual #11.X-men have a change of heart.After having secretive meetings with Magneto in the Morlocks tunnels to avoid detection they suddenly return to normal living at Xaviers--no mention of Marauders.
-F.F. vs. the X-men #1-4.X-men suddenly return to Muir Isle (with Wolverine and Storm!).Again they change direction.The dramatic announcement of #219 about war on the Marauders has been dropped.All of a sudden everyones priority is Kitty.There's every indication this is a prolonged visit not a fleeting one.Issue 1 speaks of The X-men coming here "seeking refuge".(I thought they were going after the Marauders?).Don't forget a diversion to Latveria follows.
-#220Probably most confusingly The X-men are back in the U.S. .Wolverine has gone AWOL.Storm tracks him down hands over leadership and goes on her quest.
-#221"X-men in hiding" idea completely forgotten,The X-men are back in the X-mansion.

Remember ,because Storm and Havok are both present ,Annual #11 and F.F. vs. tthe X-men HAVE to occur between #219 and #220.

Have I missed something or does everything not ring quite true here?Did Claremont bite off more than he could chew with Annuals,Minis etc and lose his way a little with the continuation?:confused:

Help!!(AndI haven't even mentioned Longshot suddenly appearing in #215)

[david r]

Limerick, You have to take annuals/minis carefully, as they often DO NOT fit easily into continuity of the main book (Uncanny X-men. ) This is how I see it:

#219- Wolverine is on a solo mission, possibly that one with Spider-Man. Storm & Magneto lay out "Plan Omega" to the other X-Men, but exactly *when* then plan to put it into operation, is not decided. Havok joins that issue.
#Annual 11 - This story obviously does not entirely make sense. As you say, the X-Men are back in the Xavier Mansion, no mention of Muir Isle. But notice too that Magneto & the New Mutants are no where to be seen? My No-Prize answer for your question is Magneto took the NMs on a field trip of sorts, and thus asked the X-Men to watch over the Xavier School for a few days. Not wanting to leave it unattended with the Maruaders on the loose. Thus, why the X-Men are present (and not New Mutants) when Horde strikes.

-FF vs. the X-Men #1-4/ The X-Men return to Muir Island (following the Horde story) but now their immediate priority is Kitty Pryde's survival. Kitty is dying. Again, initiating Plan Omega is put on the back-burner because Shadowcat has just mere days left to live! Storm will do everything in her power to save her beloved Kitty, so the Fantastic Four/Latveria now follows chronologically.
#-220/ I do not know where Storm and Wolverine meet in this issue. Does this follow X-Men vs. the Avengers? They appear to be in the Colorado Rockies, but Ororo has decided regaining her weather powers is her next priority. So she hands over leadership of the X-Men to Wolverine. Plan Omega again, left for another day.

I feel the "X-Men in hiding" was only done to safeguard the wounded mutants and shepherd them to Muir Isle. You can't really go into hiding while the New Mutants are easy targets back at the mansion. Plan Omega is still in it's formative stages (I think) and the exact moment to implement it has not been decided by Storm or Magneto. Does all of this help at all?? :smile:

[limerick]

Yes,it is of help,as always.The Spiderman story may well explain Wolverines abscence from #219.

But,I have another theory.The events of Uncanny make complete sense.Wolverine leaves on a break after events in #215 & #216.Hence he is absent in #219,still recovering from his traumatic ordeal.Storm heads after him immediately after #219.So,this would give a nice flow to #214 -#220.

It would of course mean that there are continuity errors with Annual #11 and The FF vs. X-men mini.
All annuals tend to exist slightly outside continuity--they represent current team membership but may not fit into a specific spot.This would explain #11.
As for the mini,I think Claremont may have been developing this for a while and things just fell out of synch a little.I think it would make sense if Havok and Wolverine didn't feature and if Storm started the story with Magneto in New York.This would be a similar time frame to when she and 'Neto attended The Hellfire Club in #51 and would give a broader range as to when this occured.

Am I making sense?

[david r]

As for the mini,I think Claremont may have been developing this for a while and things just fell out of synch a little.I think it would make sense if Havok and Wolverine didn't feature and if Storm started the story with Magneto in New York.This would be a similar time frame to when she and 'Neto attended The Hellfire Club in #51 and would give a broader range as to when this occured.

Am I making sense?

Yes, you're making sense here. I think Marvel usually leaves it to us fans to figure out where the Annuals go. They seldom take real care in figuring it out. Annual #10 is much more complicated.

-#219/ I think the X-Men are meeting Magneto in the Morlock tunnels (and back in the US) because of Magneto's meeting with the Hellfire Club, just prior. I wonder if Magneto,as the new White King, informed the Lords Cardinal of "Plan Omega"?

[Falconen]

I don't think Magneto informed the Hellfire Club of all that much while he was a part of them. I don't think he would want to give the people, he didn't fully trust, a leg up on any specific kind of info that could be used against him, the NM or X-Men.

[david r]

Here is an excerpt from an interview with Mark Silvestri, who just began drawing X-MEN around now:

Do you remember being asked to draw "Uncanny"?

Marc Silvestri: "I do. They offered me that gig and right away I said, 'Sure, I'll take it.' I jumped at the chance. That was when X-MEN was still Mount Everest. If you got to do X-MEN, you were at the peak of your career. Spider-Man and Hulk might have been better-known titles, but everyone in the business knew that X-MEN was THE comic you wanted to be on. I felt great. I thought 'Wow, I've made it in comics.' It was like I had joined this exclusive club, the same club John Byrne had belonged to, and I was working with Chris Claremont. At that time, you're working with Chris, you've worked with the best guy out there, right? He was certainly the number one writer in comics in those days."

When you sat down to draw X-MEN, did you have specific actors in mind for the characters?

Silvestri: "If you're asking whether I physically modelled my X-Men after real people, I don't think I ever did that. I was more about a character's attitude when I drew them. Wolverine, for instance: I always thought of him as this scrappy guy. He should always have a look on his face that suggests he's just been in a fight and his nose is maybe broken. He should look like some mid-level boxer, who's been beaten up on a regular basis. Brutally handsome, if that makes any sense: good looking guy, but definitely been through the wringer. Wolverine definitely had a different attitude than Cyclops, say. I always thought you should almost be able tell who was who just by drawing a silhouette, because of the way they were standing."

When you originally took over on X-MEN, the team consisted of Storm, Dazzler, Longshot, Psylocke, Rogue, Wolverine and later Havok and Colossus. Any you liked/loathed?

Silvestri: Honestly, I've always hated Havok. He had this antenna thing on his head that I never understood. What was it? I could never draw it right, never understood it and never liked it. He was probably my least favorite character of the bunch. I didn't really care for Psylocke that much either, until Jim changed her. I thought he gave her a little more pizzazz. Obviously, I enjoyed doing Wolverine. Storm was a lot of fun, too. She had this real quiet nobility about her. When she walked into a room, you wanted to hear what she had to say, even if she said nothing. She was the one character that you always wanted in your corner, much more so than Cyclops. He was kind of the reluctant leader. He led because he was a pretty pragmatic kind of guy, not because he necessarily had the right stuff. Rogue was also fun to draw. I thought she was a cool character, tragic and interesting. Colossus was great, mostly because he's a big metal guy. I think everybody in comics likes to draw the big guy."

What kind of plots did Claremont give you?

They were novels! He put a lot of stuff in there. I don't remember who warned me--might have even been Ann, might have been Bob--but I was told to be prepared, you're going to get page after page of fifty characters doing fifty frames' worth of stuff on each page. There's going to be a lot of writing in there. I think these days I would know how to interpret what Chris was writing a little bit better than I did back then. But was Chris was good, make no mistake. I was thrilled to be working with him on X-MEN, and I did the best I could to follow those plots".

[Imraith Nimphais]

I love him even more now...just for wot he said about Storm...she walks into a room and commands attention...her "quiet nobility"...*sniff"...and I can tell he truly "understood" the characters he was drawing, even those he did not particularly care for...I <3 Silvestri...oh, btw...a fun and entertaining action-packed issue, fer sure...once Claremont gets the ball rolling, he sends it along at a pace...so much happens in these 22 something odd pages and all of it relevant to the unfolding plot.

[Nikolievitch]

Hey David and everyone!

I just wanted to drop a line to say how much I truly enjoy reading this thread, as well as X-Men: The Hidden Years, New Mutants from the Beginning and - very soon now - X-Factor too.

I didn't discover these threads until several months after you'd begun them, but I thought they looked so great that they've inspired me to revisit my own much-loved X-Collection. I've been reading one issue a day myself for over a year now, and every day I visit one of these From the Beginning sites and read what you've all had to say about our heroes. So I'm still totally trailing the rest of you - I just actually got to your one-year celebration of this thread, and it made me realize that I really wanted to thank you for this awesome, enriching part of my reading! I wish that I could catch up to you so I could participate, but in the meantime, just know how much your thoughts are appreciated.

[david r]

Nikolievitch, That is very good to hear. I am glad you enjoy these threads. They are not just a pleasure for me to read and review, but also posters/lurkers to read along and enjoy. Each time I read a post like yours it gives me renewed vigor to continue onward. We all love the X-Men so.

I hope you catch up soon so you can participate. I will look forward to it. :smile:

[limerick]

Here is an excerpt from an interview with Mark Silvestri, who just began drawing X-MEN around now:

Do you remember being asked to draw "Uncanny"?

Marc Silvestri: "I do. They offered me that gig and right away I said, 'Sure, I'll take it.' I jumped at the chance. That was when X-MEN was still Mount Everest. If you got to do X-MEN, you were at the peak of your career. Spider-Man and Hulk might have been better-known titles, but everyone in the business knew that X-MEN was THE comic you wanted to be on. I felt great. I thought 'Wow, I've made it in comics.' It was like I had joined this exclusive club, the same club John Byrne had belonged to, and I was working with Chris Claremont. At that time, you're working with Chris, you've worked with the best guy out there, right? He was certainly the number one writer in comics in those days."

When you sat down to draw X-MEN, did you have specific actors in mind for the characters?

Silvestri: "If you're asking whether I physically modelled my X-Men after real people, I don't think I ever did that. I was more about a character's attitude when I drew them. Wolverine, for instance: I always thought of him as this scrappy guy. He should always have a look on his face that suggests he's just been in a fight and his nose is maybe broken. He should look like some mid-level boxer, who's been beaten up on a regular basis. Brutally handsome, if that makes any sense: good looking guy, but definitely been through the wringer. Wolverine definitely had a different attitude than Cyclops, say. I always thought you should almost be able tell who was who just by drawing a silhouette, because of the way they were standing."

When you originally took over on X-MEN, the team consisted of Storm, Dazzler, Longshot, Psylocke, Rogue, Wolverine and later Havok and Colossus. Any you liked/loathed?

Silvestri: Honestly, I've always hated Havok. He had this antenna thing on his head that I never understood. What was it? I could never draw it right, never understood it and never liked it. He was probably my least favorite character of the bunch. I didn't really care for Psylocke that much either, until Jim changed her. I thought he gave her a little more pizzazz. Obviously, I enjoyed doing Wolverine. Storm was a lot of fun, too. She had this real quiet nobility about her. When she walked into a room, you wanted to hear what she had to say, even if she said nothing. She was the one character that you always wanted in your corner, much more so than Cyclops. He was kind of the reluctant leader. He led because he was a pretty pragmatic kind of guy, not because he necessarily had the right stuff. Rogue was also fun to draw. I thought she was a cool character, tragic and interesting. Colossus was great, mostly because he's a big metal guy. I think everybody in comics likes to draw the big guy."

What kind of plots did Claremont give you?

They were novels! He put a lot of stuff in there. I don't remember who warned me--might have even been Ann, might have been Bob--but I was told to be prepared, you're going to get page after page of fifty characters doing fifty frames' worth of stuff on each page. There's going to be a lot of writing in there. I think these days I would know how to interpret what Chris was writing a little bit better than I did back then. But was Chris was good, make no mistake. I was thrilled to be working with him on X-MEN, and I did the best I could to follow those plots".
David,thanks for this great interview---haven't seen it before.The issue reviews take a lot of time as it is.You show true dedication with the various art/interviews you post regularly.So keep up the great and much appreciated work!

[david r]

David,thanks for this great interview---haven't seen it before.The issue reviews take a lot of time as it is.You show true dedication with the various art/interviews you post regularly.So keep up the great and much appreciated work!

I try my damndest to keep things interesting and popping. I wish I could post more artwork, but don't know many sites where you can find it.

[david r]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.222.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #222

"Heartbreak"

1st appearance: Eye Killers

The San Francisco showdown with the Marauders continues. Most of the Bay's landmarks are touched on, like Alcatraz, the Golden Gate Bridge, etc. Even Clint Eastwood's Dirty Harry makes an appearance. You read that right. :biggrin: Plus, Wolverine and Sabretooth get in Round Three here. Wolvie thrusts his adamantium claws into Sabretooth's chest. Ouch!

Polaris is about to blast Dazzler and Rogue, both swimming in the SF Bay, when Havok blasts her from the beach. Alex Summers doesn't realize his lady love is possessed by Malice! Meanwhile, Psylocke is being driven around the high, hilly roads of San Francisco by Lt. Morrell, and a detective named "Harry" who carries a Smith & Wesson .44 Magnum. The most powerful handgun in the world (where have I heard those words before??) Back at the beach, Rogue and Dazzler awaken safe and did not die from drowning. Those 3 little Japanese children from Uncanny X-Men #181 make a cameo, complete with their "Hero Book". They look up and find a picture of Dazzler in it.

Meanwhile, Storm and Naze have made their way into the Colorado Rockies. (They were headed into the Grand Canyon last issue. Did they teleport away??) It is night and Naze is firing up a fire for food. Both are attacked by a seemingly normal man and woman. But these 2 appear to be possessed by creatures named "Eye Killers." Naze knows of them, as Storm uses her walking stick to slam the female into the fire coals. The female transforms into a monstrous creature. The body of a snake, with claws and the head of an owl!! The thing looks like a conglomeration of several different animals into one body! The Eye Killer states, "Long before the White Man's presence tainted this land, it was OUR domain--it's people, whom you call "Indians", our rightful PREY! And our Master has promised... it shall be so again!" The male soon also transforms into the hideous beast, and only fire harms them. Naze lights up tumbleweeds and sets fire to the surrounding underbrush. Soon, the 2 beasts are burned and killed. Storm uses her fighting skills well here, but gets much scratched up. Naze again says the walls to the "Spirit-Lands" is breaking down. Forge was destined to stop it, but now it appears he may be trying to throw the gates wide open. Storm looks at her knife and says she will stop him. Naze clearly desires this to happen.

Back in San Francisco, the Marauders and X-Men battle rages on! Polaris, Scalphunter, Arclight, Harpoon and the rest take their potshots at the good guys. Culminating with an action-packed battle scene on the Golden Gate Bridge, as Wolverine takes on several Marauders. The blood flies as he and Sabretooth again get down to business slashing and clawing each other. Scrambler has momentarily stolen Logan's mutant power of healing, so Wolverine is especially vulnerable. But 'Tooth forgets about Wolvie's adamantium claws, and Logan sinks them deep into Sabretooth's left chest!! Sabretooth falls, but Logan states his healing factor will save him. The Marauders believe Madelyne Pryor has drowned in the bay, so they teleport away. But Longshot rescued Maddie from drowning. So the X-Men are hurt, but they won their objective. Madelyne lives.

My thoughts: The X-Men were experiencing a real renaissance during this time. This is another action-filled entry with Round Two of the Marauders. They show they're every bit a match for Xavier's team. And as Wolverine worries....the Marauders may be better! I liked the use of San Francisco locations to heighten the scenery, and the cameos here (Dirty Harry, the Japanese kids) brought delight to the story. The Golden Gate Bridge with Wolverine & the Marauders was a highlight. I am also GREATLY intrigued by these "Eye Killers" and what their origin is all about. I've never even heard of them. I thought at first they were the Brood, but it turns out they were something altogether new. Chris Claremont and Marc Silvestri appear to be a wonderful creative pair together. This issue was great.

[limerick]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.221.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #221

"Death By Drowning"

1st appearance: Mr. Sinister

As you can see below, #221 introduces a new villain to the canon...Mister Sinister. Or Sinister, if you prefer. He looks to me like a cross between Colossus and Dracula. He is the mastermind behind the Marauders, and he wants Madelyne Pryor dead.

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/pages/97792366288.221.P1.GIF

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/pages/97792366288.221.P3.GIF

Poor Sabretooth. He finally met his match. And alas, Sinister has the yuckiest teeth I've seen so far in an X-book. plus, his name rhymes. Mister.......Mister......Sinister.

Sinister is not happy with his Marauders, that Madelyne Pryor survived being shot by Scalphunter. So he sends them out to finish the job. Meanwhile, the X-Men have returned to Charles Xavier's School, under the leadership of Wolverine. We learn Dazzler and Rogue still hate one another. But once Madelyne calls the mansion for assistance, Logan sends the squad to San Francisco to find her. Havok and Wolverine argue once there, but most of the issue takes up a prolonged battle in the hospital, between X-Men & Marauders. Our heroes are piping hot to avenge the Mutant Massacre on these bad boys. Maddie is saved, but not before Havok blasts the hospital (and Wolverine) with his power blasts! (See cover.) There is a spectacular sequence where Polaris, (possessed by Malice) snatches Rogue and Madelyne Pryor in a super-structure of steel beams...........and then hurtles them in San Francisco Bay. Dazzler sacrifices life and limb to rescue them, and does so. Nearly at the cost of Alison Blaire's life. This act seems to smooth over the angry feelings between Alison and Rogue. But Polaris floats above them in the bay, ready to strike!!

In the Grand Canyon, Rogue and Naze begin their descent into the largest hole on Earth. In their search of Forge. But something is seriously wrong with Naze.

My thoughts: I liked this second round between X-Men & the Marauders. And am glad Marvel didn't waste much time bringing them in conflict again. The Marauders have a lot to pay for. Mr. Sinister was crazy with his white skin, gnarly teeth and red eyes. Again, he reminds me of Colossus, oddly. But he really doesn't do a whole lot here. I like seeing Wolverine as team leader, and you can see him struggle a bit with this new duty. It was clever to see Wolverine switch roles. Now LOGAN IS LEADER, and a Summers (Havok) is arguing and second-guessing him. Sort of flipping the roles we used to see in Cyclops/Wolverine. I hope this conflict between Havok and Wolverine lasts; I bet Wolvie realizes it's a lot easier to be the rebel, than be the leader. I was also dazzled by the Rogue/Maddie moment where they sink into the Bay, and Dazzler rescues them. This was a inspired action scene, and though I doubt Alison could hold her breath that long, I liked seeing her save the day and she and Rogue coming closer. Overall, another superb action issue!
Thoughts on #221:
--Sinister's teeth are the most striking thing about that first page.Of course there is also an obvious likeness to Colossus,something you mention,David.The metallic design of his outfit only emphasizes this.I remember when I first opened this page I thought this was going to be a Colossus evil twin/clone story.I was wrong!
--Claremont quickly shows Sinister is someone to be reckoned with.He effortlessly restrains Savbretooth and all the Marauders look scared of him,especially Vertigo.
--Sinister reveals himself to be the source of Cyclop's woes when he went looking for Maddie.On page 3 he describes how they "oblierated every trace of her existence"(actually impossible to do IMO).It's unusual that this plotline which is central to X-factor characters is revealed here and not in X-factor.
--Where has Maddie been all this time?Why has it taken her so long to contact The X-men(or Scott for that matter?)?
--The X-men are back in San Francisco.They seem to be building some bridges there which is ironic considering current events.
--When Scrambler boosts Havok's power on pages 14 and 15 why is he immune to the power.He should be affected by the blast but isn't for some reason?Why?Anyone any ideas?Scrambler is a very ordinary looking guy but he certainly is a very effective member of The Marauders.
--Like I mentioned before ,Arclight just does it for me---SEXY!!
--Unlike you David,I do not think Dazzler comes across too well in this issue.Her Danger room session is unfair to Rogue.And although she does come good in the end,I do think she leaves rogue at the bottom of the Bay just a little too quickly.This issue did put me off Dazz. a bit and made me siude with Rogue.

[Cub]

Hey guys. Sorry i've been MIA, been busy with moving back to philadelphia, going back to school, etc. But I have been lurking and keeping up with these threads. This era both infuriates and excites me. The timeline, even without the annuals and specials is confusing, to say the least. Silvestri's artwork helps contribute to a rushed, unpredictable feeling throughout. That, combined with charcaters coming and going, approximately 1000 subplots being juggled, and the team appearing all over the globe from one issue to the next, really makes you think, "what the fu(k is going on here?" Which is kinda fun.

As far as Silvestri goes, what a talent. I love how it looks like he just scribbled something in about 4 seconds and created this gorgeous figure of rogue. Sometimes the end result looks a little too sloppy for my taste, but i highly prefer it to romita jr's boxy style.

As far as the team itself... i frakking hate Longshot. I think it is a bit odd how Dazz is characterized as being so inexperienced. I understand how Claremont always wanted to have that wide-eyed innocent character, but he could have gone that route with longshot, if that foul creature MUST be included on the team. I also think its odd that elisabeth is perceived by everyone to be SO weak, to the point that her upcoming new costume... well we'll get to that soon enough. Especially considering what we know about her know, with her involvement in S.T.R.I.K.E. and all, just seems weird.

Was a bit surprised to find out that Silvestri hated Havok. I think he draws, like, the iconic Alex, and does it so well.

Rogue really starts to shine in this era, which i loooooove...

[david r]

Limerick, I wonder if there was a conscious attempt to make Mr. Sinister resemble Colossus? It does seem odd.

Sinister reveals himself to be the source of Cyclop's woes when he went looking for Maddie.On page 3 he describes how they "oblierated every trace of her existence"(actually impossible to do IMO).

Ah, nice catch there. I had not noticed that. So Sinister somehow obliterated Madelyne Pryor's existence. (I was expecting it to be Cameron Hodge. ) Also, on Page 12 of UXM #221, Scalphunter says to Madelyne, "We got what we wanted. You're a loose end." I wonder if he's referring to the baby, Nathan Summers. *Why* would Sinister want the baby?

Arclight lights your fire? Do tell! :smile:

Cub, Good to hear from you again. I'm sorry you had to move from New Orleans. I agree with pretty much everything you posted. Why do you hate Longshot so much??

[worstblogever]

I'm not sure I like the Storm/Naze subplot, but knowing where it's going, I'm kind of alright with it.

Marauders vs. X-Men part 2... I love this. Love it. Especially the building Logan/Sabretooth rivalry. Seeing Wolverine not back down, even while he was robbed of his healing factor by Scrambler took a lot of guts. Havok standing up to Malice, in spite of her having Lorna's body, is another big moment in this issue. The new team dynamics really are building.

And yes, Silvestri's art is decidedly excellent. Big, big fan of it.

[x_goalkeeper]

Limerick, I wonder if there was a conscious attempt to make Mr. Sinister resemble Colossus? It does seem odd.


I have wondering about this too. The first time I saw Mr. Sinister I thought he was an evil version of Colossus. :eek:

[Cub]

I have wondering about this too. The first time I saw Mr. Sinister I thought he was an evil version of Colossus. :eek:

Remember Warhawk? Now HE looked like an evil Colossus. Mr. Sinister looks like the colorist just... forgot.

As for Longshot... honestly my main reason for disliking him is that god-awful hair. I am shallow, sorry. But also, Claremont recently got rid of three of my favorite characters (Kurt, Kitty, and Piotr) for... this? His character just never really gets fleshed out, they never truly delve into his backstory (except in annuals, as someone mentioned). He just seems to be there as not so funny comic relief. The team has always had a highly acrobatic character with charm to spare (Beast, Nightcrawler, Gambit, etc.), but Longshot is so the short straw in that category. A waste of space. Plus, joining around the same time as Psylocke, who is really pretty boring up till the siege perilous, there just seems to be this giant hole where goodness used to be.

[Cub]

As for the Storm/Naze plot, I rather like it. Though pretty soon there's a major "ick" factor that haunts my dreams to this day.

[CJ Lentze]

--Unlike you David,I do not think Dazzler comes across too well in this issue.Her Danger room session is unfair to Rogue.And although she does come good in the end,I do think she leaves rogue at the bottom of the Bay just a little too quickly.This issue did put me off Dazz. a bit and made me siude with Rogue.On t'other hand, Dazzler does return equally quickly to pull a move that would have left her so drained she'd drown if Rogue hadn't been able to free herself. Rogue and Dazzler rescuing each other at the end of that issue is my favourite part; especially with the contrasting pages in the beginning showing Dazzler's Danger Room session with the Rogue hologram.

[Valjean999]

Remember Warhawk? Now HE looked like an evil Colossus. Mr. Sinister looks like the colorist just... forgot.

As for Longshot... honestly my main reason for disliking him is that god-awful hair. I am shallow, sorry. But also, Claremont recently got rid of three of my favorite characters (Kurt, Kitty, and Piotr) for... this? His character just never really gets fleshed out, they never truly delve into his backstory (except in annuals, as someone mentioned). He just seems to be there as not so funny comic relief. The team has always had a highly acrobatic character with charm to spare (Beast, Nightcrawler, Gambit, etc.), but Longshot is so the short straw in that category. A waste of space. Plus, joining around the same time as Psylocke, who is really pretty boring up till the siege perilous, there just seems to be this giant hole where goodness used to be.

I agree about Longshot not being utilized properly, that was a wasted chance. BUT, I dont blame the character, I blame the creators. I think the character had potential that was not realized. I dont know why they bothered adding him to the book, if he wasnt going to be used. Maybe Mr Claremont originally had bigger plans for him, that got sidetracked for various reasons?

[CJ Lentze]

I agree about Longshot not being utilized properly, that was a wasted chance. BUT, I dont blame the character, I blame the creators. I think the character had potential that was not realized. I dont know why they bothered adding him to the book, if he wasnt going to be used. Maybe Mr Claremont originally had bigger plans for him, that got sidetracked for various reasons?Maybe the blame lies with neither the character nor the writer... Maybe Longshot just came on board in the wrong era. Though it isn't obvious from these pre 'Fall of the Mutants' issues yet, it's around this time that the focus of the comic book shifts from character development and intricate plotlines to a more 'action'-driven flavour. More focus on the battles, and on the grimness and grittiness. In letters, many readers complained about not really knowing the newer members that had been added, like Longshot and Dazzler-- not getting good peeks into their heads. Maybe Longshot suffered under that.

[limerick]

Remember Warhawk? Now HE looked like an evil Colossus. Mr. Sinister looks like the colorist just... forgot.

As for Longshot... honestly my main reason for disliking him is that god-awful hair. I am shallow, sorry. But also, Claremont recently got rid of three of my favorite characters (Kurt, Kitty, and Piotr) for... this? His character just never really gets fleshed out, they never truly delve into his backstory (except in annuals, as someone mentioned). He just seems to be there as not so funny comic relief. The team has always had a highly acrobatic character with charm to spare (Beast, Nightcrawler, Gambit, etc.), but Longshot is so the short straw in that category. A waste of space. Plus, joining around the same time as Psylocke, who is really pretty boring up till the siege perilous, there just seems to be this giant hole where goodness used to be.
Cub,I agree with you about Longshot.Unfortunately,Claremont doesn't seem to grasp the character fully and the wide-eyed innocence of the mini-series has turned into dull stupidity.Longshot contributes very little to the storyline and is the only one of the New X-men to not have any character development by this stage.He seems to be a little ignored.

[limerick]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.222.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #222

"Heartbreak"

1st appearance: Eye Killers

The San Francisco showdown with the Marauders continues. Most of the Bay's landmarks are touched on, like Alcatraz, the Golden Gate Bridge, etc. Even Clint Eastwood's Dirty Harry makes an appearance. You read that right. :biggrin: Plus, Wolverine and Sabretooth get in Round Three here. Wolvie thrusts his adamantium claws into Sabretooth's chest. Ouch!

Polaris is about to blast Dazzler and Rogue, both swimming in the SF Bay, when Havok blasts her from the beach. Alex Summers doesn't realize his lady love is possessed by Malice! Meanwhile, Psylocke is being driven around the high, hilly roads of San Francisco by Lt. Morrell, and a detective named "Harry" who carries a Smith & Wesson .44 Magnum. The most powerful handgun in the world (where have I heard those words before??) Back at the beach, Rogue and Dazzler awaken safe and did not die from drowning. Those 3 little Japanese children from Uncanny X-Men #181 make a cameo, complete with their "Hero Book". They look up and find a picture of Dazzler in it.

Meanwhile, Storm and Naze have made their way into the Colorado Rockies. (They were headed into the Grand Canyon last issue. Did they teleport away??) It is night and Naze is firing up a fire for food. Both are attacked by a seemingly normal man and woman. But these 2 appear to be possessed by creatures named "Eye Killers." Naze knows of them, as Storm uses her walking stick to slam the female into the fire coals. The female transforms into a monstrous creature. The body of a snake, with claws and the head of an owl!! The thing looks like a conglomeration of several different animals into one body! The Eye Killer states, "Long before the White Man's presence tainted this land, it was OUR domain--it's people, whom you call "Indians", our rightful PREY! And our Master has promised... it shall be so again!" The male soon also transforms into the hideous beast, and only fire harms them. Naze lights up tumbleweeds and sets fire to the surrounding underbrush. Soon, the 2 beasts are burned and killed. Storm uses her fighting skills well here, but gets much scratched up. Naze again says the walls to the "Spirit-Lands" is breaking down. Forge was destined to stop it, but now it appears he may be trying to throw the gates wide open. Storm looks at her knife and says she will stop him. Naze clearly desires this to happen.

Back in San Francisco, the Marauders and X-Men battle rages on! Polaris, Scalphunter, Arclight, Harpoon and the rest take their potshots at the good guys. Culminating with an action-packed battle scene on the Golden Gate Bridge, as Wolverine takes on several Marauders. The blood flies as he and Sabretooth again get down to business slashing and clawing each other. Scrambler has momentarily stolen Logan's mutant power of healing, so Wolverine is especially vulnerable. But 'Tooth forgets about Wolvie's adamantium claws, and Logan sinks them deep into Sabretooth's left chest!! Sabretooth falls, but Logan states his healing factor will save him. The Marauders believe Madelyne Pryor has drowned in the bay, so they teleport away. But Longshot rescued Maddie from drowning. So the X-Men are hurt, but they won their objective. Madelyne lives.

My thoughts: The X-Men were experiencing a real renaissance during this time. This is another action-filled entry with Round Two of the Marauders. They show they're every bit a match for Xavier's team. And as Wolverine worries....the Marauders may be better! I liked the use of San Francisco locations to heighten the scenery, and the cameos here (Dirty Harry, the Japanese kids) brought delight to the story. The Golden Gate Bridge with Wolverine & the Marauders was a highlight. I am also GREATLY intrigued by these "Eye Killers" and what their origin is all about. I've never even heard of them. I thought at first they were the Brood, but it turns out they were something altogether new. Chris Claremont and Marc Silvestri appear to be a wonderful creative pair together. This issue was great.
Thoughts on X-men#222:
--Am I going colourblind or is Lorna's hair blonde on page 1?!
--Dirty Harry in the X-men!Hurrah!
--Lt. Morrell is such a typical Claremont character.Strong independent females are his specialty.He has had so many minor characters like this over the years.Lee Forrester,Tessa,Stevie Hunter are just a few who spring to mind.
--The Japanese kids from #181 return in one of the weirdest cameos of all time.Why bring them back.Are they based on kids of people Claremont knew in real life?
--Interesting to have Wolverine and Sabertooth back on the cover so soon after their last appearance.I feel Wolverine is now firmly established as a Marvel icon and his image alone is enough to guarantee extra sales.
--Maddie hooks up with the X-men here ,but does she become an X-man.Remember Storm has no powers and is their leader so does Madiie make the grade?
--Just on a side point this issue carries the ciculation figure for Uncanny.630,000 issues published with about about 2/3 of those being sold(approx. 1/3 being returns,which sounds a large number.).This is compared with todays figures where very few books break 100,000 each month.That's an amazing change overthe last 20 years.

[limerick]

Hey David and everyone!

I just wanted to drop a line to say how much I truly enjoy reading this thread, as well as X-Men: The Hidden Years, New Mutants from the Beginning and - very soon now - X-Factor too.

I didn't discover these threads until several months after you'd begun them, but I thought they looked so great that they've inspired me to revisit my own much-loved X-Collection. I've been reading one issue a day myself for over a year now, and every day I visit one of these From the Beginning sites and read what you've all had to say about our heroes. So I'm still totally trailing the rest of you - I just actually got to your one-year celebration of this thread, and it made me realize that I really wanted to thank you for this awesome, enriching part of my reading! I wish that I could catch up to you so I could participate, but in the meantime, just know how much your thoughts are appreciated.
Hope you catch up soon so we can here your opinions--welcome to the threads!

[limerick]

Just another point on Mr. Sinister.He has no red in his costume/uniform in #221.I always thought he had some red colouring.It must have been changed later.

[limerick]

[QUOTE=david r;8548188] Limerick, I wonder if there was a conscious attempt to make Mr. Sinister resemble Colossus? It does seem odd.


Claremont explains in many interviews his ideas for Mr. Sinister and his origins.He had very specific ideas about the characters past,ideas which to his annoyance were ignored after he left the X-men.I don't want to give too much away but it does explain his appearance and outfit.

[david r]

Interesting discussion on Longshot's inclusion here. I've thought his creator, Ann Nocenti, had future plans, and until those were realized, her pal Chris Claremont added Longshot to the X-Men to 1) heighten his exposure and 2) keep on the reader's radar until Nocenti and Art Adams produced that Graphic Novel. He does seem rather vague in these issues.

In letters, many readers complained about not really knowing the newer members that had been added, like Longshot and Dazzler-- not getting good peeks into their heads. Maybe Longshot suffered under that.

But I feel that Dazzler has been explored some, especially during that Juggernaut arc, UXM #217-218. I feel Alison Blaire got some time to shine there. And Psylocke has shown a bit with the Annuals. But Longshot .....so far he's done very little really. And his backstory explored not at all.

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/a/ab/Longshot_007.jpg

Limerick,

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/pages/97792366288.222.P1.GIF

I had not noticed that Polaris' hair is blonde here. I think maybe that bright yellow glow emanating from her hands is causing the optical illusion her hair is blonde, and not green. Or Marvel screwed up. Nah, they never do that! Over Lt. Morrell, yes, you're totally correct. She comes across as another fiercely independent and strong female. Which Chris Claremont gravitates towards.

Just on a side point this issue carries the ciculation figure for Uncanny.630,000 issues published with about about 2/3 of those being sold(approx. 1/3 being returns,which sounds a large number.).This is compared with todays figures where very few books break 100,000 each month.That's an amazing change overthe last 20 years.

Uncanny X-Men sold huge numbers at this time. Can you imagine a comic selling 630,000 copies nowadays? 100,000 is now viewed as a huge success. In just 20 years, it shows how few people in the world actually buy comic books!

Claremont explains in many interviews his ideas for Mr. Sinister and his origins.He had very specific ideas about the characters past,ideas which to his annoyance were ignored after he left the X-men.I don't want to give too much away but it does explain his appearance and outfit.

Oh yes, I know about those original Mr. Sinister plans. Much, indeed!

[Imraith Nimphais]

Was not Longshot highlited in his own 6-issue limited series?...wot more "back story" did they need?...sheesh!..those crazy readers...
Personally, I thought Lonshot was an interesting addition...seemingly out-of-place most of the times, but interesting none-the-less...I did not question, I just enjoyed to the max...as these issues came out, I distinctly remember being so very anxious for the next...my x-fever for this period was 1000 degrees out of control.

[david r]

I did not question, I just enjoyed to the max...as these issues came out, I distinctly remember being so very anxious for the next...my x-fever for this period was 1000 degrees out of control.

That is the mark of a great comic. And a great story. You want the readers "1000 degrees out of control". I agree with you so much.

[david r]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.223.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #223

"Omens & Portents"

The Forge/Naze subplot moves forward. Storm does battles with giant snakes and Demon Bears (??!!) in the beauty of the Colorado Rockies. Madelyne Pryor makes a fateful decision. As well as catching the eye of another Summers brother. A rollicking good issues awaits:

It begins with Stonewall and Crimson Commando being handed over by the Federal authorities to join Freedom Force. Mystique, FF's chief, isn't too enthused but accepts. How do you say no to your boss, Valerie Cooper? Just as teammates Super Sabre runs up, precog Destiny has a vision!! She was checking up on Rogue's future, and saw Rogue had none. Nothing but oblivion!! THE X-MEN ARE GOING TO DIE!!! Meanwhile, the Uncanny X-Men have made Alcatraz Island their home. They like San Francisco, where they are treated as heroes, and not outcasts. Team leader Wolverine (wearing his cool cowboy hat has a little roughhouse with Rogue. The 2 of them fighting it out as a form of training. Rogue knocking Logan to the ground, but Rogue takes her advantage for granted, and Wolverine soon turns the tables and, smilingly, knocks Rogue to the hard floor herself.

In the Colorado Rockies, Naze has grown sick. Infected by poison from the Eye Killer creatures they met in #222. Storm and Naze are holed up in small cabin hidden in the forest. As Naze rests, Ororo drinks from a concoction he had her brew. Before she knows it, Ororo is confronted by an angry, huge BEAR that slashes into the cabin and slices her. She falls out of the cabin down to the frozen pond, where she is then attacked by a long, slender giant snake (see cover!) Ororo is pulled down under the ice but survives by driving her knife into the snake's eye. Ororo desperately climbs up a hillside....only to find insane Forge at the top. Forge is laughing and seeming out of control. Forge seems to be the cause of all this anarchy. Claws shoot out of his right hand. Forge grabs Storm for a lovers' kiss. But she plunges her knife into her lover, and Forge falls dead. Her eyes now open, and Storm realizes the whole ordeal was nothing but a dream. Naze is recuperated (was he really sick at all?) and the 2 draw close. Ororo confesses she loves Forge. But if he is truly going to open the Gate of Chaos, she will...she must...destroy him!! Naze smiles at the news.

Back at Alcatraz, Madelyne Pryor, wearing a flight suit it looks like, is preparing to jump off a cliff into the cold, bay waters. Alex Summers is jogging along and sees her. Alex desperately climbs the rocky hillside and screams for Maddie to stop! Madelyne is overwrought with emotional agony, having lost her husband. She has lost her baby to the Marauders. She was shot. Her existence has been wiped clean. Madelyne's life has fallen into disarray. Alex says he too has lost someone close to him (Lorna Dane), but won't give up. Alex says the X-Men are more than a super-hero team. They're a family. And Madelyne is welcome to join. She backs away from the cliff, hugs Alex and returns with him to Alcatraz prison.

My thoughts: Another spirited issue. I liked Storm's battle with the snake. And especially, the bear. Did the Demon Bear from New Mutants make a cameo in #223? Sure looks like it. My curiosity grows. I was disappointed Ororo's whole fight was a mere dream. Naze is certainly a schemer. Is he planning for Forge to die, so he can claim the prize?? And what prize is this exactly? The sequence with Madelyne Pryor and Alex Summers was well-written and played out. Madelyne has been through hell and I don't blame her for wanting to chuck it all away. I found it ironic one Summers brother has brought her to the brink.....while another Summers brother brings her off of it. Will she find comfort in the younger Summers' arms? Wolverine continues to impress me with his leadership skills. He's more raw, more untamed than Cyclops or Storm, but the others respect him. It's hard not to with his skills. Plus, who knew Wolverine looks so damn good wearing a feathered cowboy hat? Plus, the additions to Freedom Forge were cool. FF continue to expand and change; they've shown to be a powerful group. All in all, #223 was great and you can't go wrong picking this one up and enjoying the adventure within. It's damn good fun.

[longshot3]

Was not Longshot highlited in his own 6-issue limited series?...wot more "back story" did they need?...sheesh!..those crazy readers...
Personally, I thought Lonshot was an interesting addition...seemingly out-of-place most of the times, but interesting none-the-less...I did not question, I just enjoyed to the max...as these issues came out, I distinctly remember being so very anxious for the next...my x-fever for this period was 1000 degrees out of control.

of course, I liked Longshot and never understood why he is one of, if not THE most hated X-Man ever.

[worstblogever]

Storm/Naze (or not Naze?)/Forge is boiling into quite the tale. Although, it might be that Ororo is being manipulated by the old shaman. I know, go figure.

The Rogue/Logan scrap was good to lighten the mood, I feel. And to give two popular characters more to do, with Ororo taking the bulk of the issue.

Havok & Maddie? Man, the Summers' family reunion could get awkward, eh?

And... FREEDOM FORCE! WOO! Adding to their numbers seems to be a fun thing... since the X-Men have had their roster altered a bit since their last scrum with the group. Destiny's vision seems to indicate another rumble is about to go down... and with their numbers padded, is there any hope for the X-Men to come out ahead against the government stooges?

[david r]

I Love The X-men!!!!

[david r]

It's interesting. In UXM #222, after Storm and Naze were attacked by the Eye Killers, Naze says the monsters are coming, and the "walls are breaking down" between their dimension and ours. I recall this being said in New Mutants #36, that "walls are coming down between the dimensions". The Elder Gods are finding their way back in. You can see a connection being built between both books---slowly but surely---headed towards a crossover between X-Men and New Mutants.

[david r]

Storm's involvement in this book is remarkable. Had a woman ever been portrayed this way in comics publishing before? Up till 1987, how many women were shown as fiercely independent and in-charge as Ororo Munroe was portrayed in Uncanny X-Men? Had a woman ever lead a super-hero team before? Or a character with zero super-powers?

Few black/African American characters existed in comics. The Falcon, or the Avengers Captain Marvel. Storm becoming such a strong, integral part of the book may not seem special now, but it was revolutionary in the 1980s. Another groundbreaking moment, and something X-MEN should be proud of.

[Imraith Nimphais]

...true dat, David.
I LOVE STORM!!!
and to praphrase...I FRAKKIN' LOVE THE X_MEN!!!..(back then)

[limerick]

Thoughts on #223:

--Just hauled my second box of Uncanny out of storage.I keep my comics in special-sized storage boxes which hold approx. 225-240 issues.I can't believe how quickly I've moved on to the second one.Two questions,David.Firstly,do you think you'll ever "catch up" to Marvel or do you want to?With the current Marvel output(up to 25 X-related titles ,some months)it would take some endeavor to catch up.Or you would need to ignore a lot of mini-series.Secondly,how are you finding this mammoth task?It must take up a fair bit of your time.Are you still enjoying it or is it becoming a bit of a chore?Or maybe you're enjoying it more now than when you started?!I must say I wish I had been on board from the start.Still,at least I didn't miss too much(hopped on approx. #180)

--Another guest artist!Uncanny just can't seem to get a run of one artist for more than a couple of issues.Some of the art in this issue reminds me of the recent Fallen Angels --see Val Cooper on Pg. 1.But some of it is uncannily like Silvestri----see Rogue and Wolverine on pg.12.

--I was surprised to see Stonewall and The Crimson Commando back so soon.They seemed like characters out of time in their last appearance and certainly past their best.Claremont must have just taken a shine to them.Even more surprising was the reappearance of Super-Sabre who looked done for last time we saw him.It's the first totally unexplained cheating of death I can remember in the X-men.No explanation is given as to how Martin survived the rockfall.This kind of miracle survival has become all too common nowadays.

--Again something about Super-Sabres pronounciation makes me think he is Irish.I can't put my finger on exactly why I think that.There's just something in the way he talks......

--Destiny:"SOMETIME VERY SOON....THE X-MEN ARE GOING TO DIE!"Yikes!!!

--What's the point of pg.8.I don't see where it's going.I can't remember it leading on to anything?Who is the journalist Mr. B?

--So the X-men are using Alcatraz as a base.What do they do about the constant stream of tourists?Or maybe this happened before the tours began.

[limerick]

Storm's involvement in this book is remarkable. Had a woman ever been portrayed this way in comics publishing before? Up till 1987, how many women were shown as fiercely independent and in-charge as Ororo Munroe was portrayed in Uncanny X-Men? Had a woman ever lead a super-hero team before? Or a character with zero super-powers?

Few black/African American characters existed in comics. The Falcon, or the Avengers Captain Marvel. Storm becoming such a strong, integral part of the book may not seem special now, but it was revolutionary in the 1980s. Another groundbreaking moment, and something X-MEN should be proud of.
What you say about Storm is very true,David.She is a very strong-willed,independent character who has undergone a transformational journey since joining the X-men,while remaining very much Storm.

However,I do find her ability to fight toe-to-toe with the X-men despite losing her powers a little unbelievable.The only time she showed her vunerability as a homo sapien was during the X-men/Fantastic Four mini when the Human Tourch singed her.

[Yogaflame]

Do remember this is a woman who survived a building falling on her at age 5, pick-pocketed the world's best telepath at age 7 and walked across the Sahara desert at age 12. She's not your average regular suburban kid grown up watching tv and eating high fructose corn syrup, which I imagine, most of the rest of the X-Men did. Besides, she didn't completely loose her powers and the Bright Lady always looks after Her special children.

[david r]

Two questions,David.Firstly,do you think you'll ever "catch up" to Marvel or do you want to?With the current Marvel output(up to 25 X-related titles ,some months)it would take some endeavor to catch up.Or you would need to ignore a lot of mini-series.

I plan to catch up to Nu Marvel. Do I want to??....that is another question! :biggrin: I am not going to read/review every single X-Men series. Just the core ones, or maybe something off the beaten path. I have very specific plans where I want this to go.

Secondly,how are you finding this mammoth task?It must take up a fair bit of your time.Are you still enjoying it or is it becoming a bit of a chore?Or maybe you're enjoying it more now than when you started?!

I really enjoyed it at first. I reached my peak last summer. Now, I have stops-and-starts where I become exhausted. Then have a spurt of energy. The problem is doing an issue every single day. Try working all day long. Then, coming home and reading an issue (and if you want to truly immerse yourself, reading can take an hour.) Then spending 30 minutes writing a review/summary of the story. After that, commenting on other people's thoughts. It does take up a fair amount of time. It's fun, but some days it can become exhausting.

I must say I wish I had been on board from the start.

I wish you had, too.

--I was surprised to see Stonewall and The Crimson Commando back so soon.They seemed like characters out of time in their last appearance and certainly past their best.Claremont must have just taken a shine to them.Even more surprising was the reappearance of Super-Sabre who looked done for last time we saw him.It's the first totally unexplained cheating of death I can remember in the X-men.No explanation is given as to how Martin survived the rockfall.This kind of miracle survival has become all too common nowadays.

Chris Claremont always has plans for characters. Even secondary ones like Stonewall and Crimson Commando. I liked them joining FF, but wow! With them and Super Sabre, Freedom Force may be unstoppable.

-Again something about Super-Sabres pronounciation makes me think he is Irish.I can't put my finger on exactly why I think that.There's just something in the way he talks......

There's no way to confirm or deny??. Surely, Claremont would answer this simple question at Comix-Fan.

--What's the point of pg.8.I don't see where it's going.I can't remember it leading on to anything?Who is the journalist Mr. B?

I thought that same thing. Was it a page of filler? But then I considered the issue title "Omens and Portents". UXM #223 is filled with them, and this may be another one.

--So the X-men are using Alcatraz as a base.What do they do about the constant stream of tourists?Or maybe this happened before the tours began.

HA! :tongue: You are correct. I visited Alcatraz in 1986, and they were having tours then. This story happens in 1987, so indeed tours were going through the old island prison. Perhaps Psylocke was blocking innocent bystanders from detecting the X-Men's presence.

[david r]

Do remember this is a woman who survived a building falling on her at age 5, pick-pocketed the world's best telepath at age 7 and walked across the Sahara desert at age 12. She's not your average regular suburban kid grown up watching tv and eating high fructose corn syrup, which I imagine, most of the rest of the X-Men did. Besides, she didn't completely loose her powers and the Bright Lady always looks after Her special children.

So true, Ororo didn't spend her child years playing video games, eating ice cream and staring at a computer screen all night. She was physical. Though I bet she misses being worshipped as a Goddess. :cool:

Right now, I am on vacation visiting family in Louisana. Think bayous, riverboat casinos and southern drawl. It is very nice, but this explains why the reviews have STOPPED!! Also, I am on the look out for a dark-haired cajun, wearing a long brown coat and a red sparkle in his eye. If I see him, I'll let you know, but it's an unlikely gambit! :wink:

[CallMeGeoff]

Thoughts on #223:

--Another guest artist!Uncanny just can't seem to get a run of one artist for more than a couple of issues.Some of the art in this issue reminds me of the recent Fallen Angels --see Val Cooper on Pg. 1.But some of it is uncannily like Silvestri----see Rogue and Wolverine on pg.12.


Kerry Gammill is indeed the artist on some (if not most) of Fallen Angels. I think I remember someone commenting on the New Mutants thread that his art would not be good enough for X-Men. I don't remember who said that, but do you still think so? Just curious.


Right now, I am on vacation visiting family in Louisana. Think bayous, riverboat casinos and southern drawl. It is very nice, but this explains why the reviews have STOPPED!! Also, I am on the look out for a dark-haired cajun, wearing a long brown coat and a red sparkle in his eye. If I see him, I'll let you know, but it's an unlikely gambit! :wink:

Cool, have fun! It's perfect timing for me, since I have gotten so far behind. But now I'm getting caught up, so I'll be ready to blow all your minds again with my incredibly insightful comments once you get back. :biggrin:

I wish I could take a vacation...

[limerick]

You got me ,Geoff!I said that!I think the art here is more than sufficient for a fill-in artist.I do think the inker has a huge impact on how good the final result looks.Terry Austin and Dan Green can basically make anyone look good.However ,I stand corrected.The art here is more than passible-----not my favourite but good.
How's that for a quick reply.

[limerick]

By the way ,Geoff,good to have you back!

[david r]

I noticed in Uncanny X-Men #224, on Page 5, presidential assistant Valerie Cooper mentions the Mutants Special Powers Registration Act. It is newly passed. Cooper says "Along these lines, the newly-passed Mutant Special Powers Registration Act.....labels such parahuman "Super" abilities as deadly weapons, like hand-guns, and mandates their licensing by the government."

I don't recall ever hearing of this. Does anything ever come of this Act? It reminds me of the language used in Marvel's Civil War.

[worstblogever]

I noticed in Uncanny X-Men #224, on Page 5, presidential assistant Valerie Cooper mentions the Mutants Special Powers Registration Act. It is newly passed. Cooper says "Along these lines, the newly-passed Mutant Special Powers Registration Act.....labels such parahuman "Super" abilities as deadly weapons, like hand-guns, and mandates their licensing by the government."

I don't recall ever hearing of this. Does anything ever come of this Act? It reminds me of the language used in Marvel's Ciivl War.

Indeed. Here's a whole Marvel Unofficial Appendix profile on the Commission for Superhuman Affairs... notice that a few years after Fall of the Mutants, other books were furthering the storyline of the Mutant Registration Act... and then it just stops being mentioned...

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix2/commissionsa.htm


And here's where I don't have a solid source, but the story gets a little fuzzy...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Registration_acts_(comics)

Scroll down a bit on this one... it says that as of the 1990s, they stopped mentioning the Mutant Registration Act. And, if it was mentioned, it was in the past tense, indicating it was apparently repealed.

Until the Civil War storyline hit, with the SuperHuman Registration Act. Suddenly, MRA was the basis for SHRA, in spite of no mutant, in any comic, having had to even be harassed about registering with the government for like, fifteen years of continuity.


Great question though, david.

[david r]

Wow, that's great, worstblogever. Thanks for all this information.

[worstblogever]

Wow, that's great, worstblogever. Thanks for all this information.

Anytime, man.

[CallMeGeoff]

You got me ,Geoff!I said that!I think the art here is more than sufficient for a fill-in artist.I do think the inker has a huge impact on how good the final result looks.Terry Austin and Dan Green can basically make anyone look good.However ,I stand corrected.The art here is more than passible-----not my favourite but good.
How's that for a quick reply.

You are correct, sir. Dan Green is the man.

It is interesting how big a difference an inker can make. Tracers they are not.

By the way ,Geoff,good to have you back!

Thank you! It is good to be back. I got a little bit busy for a second there, but nothing can keep me away for long!

[limerick]

Hi,everyone.David R.(The Great One!) has contacted me to see if I could take over his "From The Beginning...." Threads for a little while.He's been suffering from a little poor health at the moment and can't give the time he would like to the threads.He will ,of course ,still be contributing but has asked if I could continue with the reviews for a while.

It's a daunting task but I have agreed to give it a try.But I must warn you all of the following::

----My computer skills are very poor and I won't be able to post any interior/other art.Or even post the covers!Maybe someone could help me out with that.
----I won't be able to post issue summaries as often as David.I'll be posting mostly at weekends.But I promise to give this task my all.(Please be patient with me!)
----I won't pretend that I'll be able to match the quality of David's work or his balanced,positive analysis of all issues but I'll do my best to match his commitment until he returns to HIS babies(threads!).

So on behalf of everyone who reads these threads,THANKYOU DAVID FOR ALL YOUR STELLAR WORK.LOOKING FOWARD TO HAVING YOU BACK IN CHARGE SOON.

[limerick]

Uncanny X-men #224

"The Dark Before The Dawn"

Claremont/Silvestri

Wyoming:The issue opens with Ororo and Naze continuing their quest for Forge.Ororo looks stunning in a new Native Indian outfit provided by Naze.He explains to her that "The Great Trickster" means to bring the end to all life.Naze directs her to a mountain where he claims Forge is.He explains that Forge is expecting him and that Ororo should proceed to the summit alone to avoid detection.On reaching the summit she must slay her former lover to stop him helping "The Great Trickster".As Storm leaves Naze laughs revealing himself to be not Naze but ?????

San Francisco:Val Cooper fronts a press conference (sided by Destiny and The Crimson Commando)at the hospital totalled by The X-men Vs The Marauders.She announces the Mutant Registration Act has been passed to prevent destruction like that of the hospital.Freedom Force will be enforcing this new Registration Act.

In a gym in San Fran. Rogue has her gym session interupted by Mystique.Mystique pleads with Rogue to leave the X-men to avoid Destiny's death vision.Rogue refuses.

Club DV8(nightclub):Dazzler preforms a gig trying(and failing) to protect her identity.Wolverine watches ,unimpressed by her light show.Rogue arrives to tell of the forboding doom.Meanwhile,Longshot and Havok(in civvies) tackle and bring down some local hoods(with ease).Lt Morrell thanks them and warns them of Freedom Forces presence in San Fran.

The X-men return to Alcatraz and decide to ignore Destiny's warning and head after Storm to Dallas which is where they think she will be.Against Wolverine's better judgement he is talked into allowing Madylene Pryor to accompany them.They depart in the Blackbird.

Meanwhile in Wyoming,Storm continues her ascent to the summit of mountain.She sees Forge appearing to be opening a hole in the "fabric of reality" at the summit.Several demons are escaping through this opening and many attack her but she prevails.On reaching the summit,she confronts Forge and stabs him to prevent him from opening the "gate" further.As he collapses into unconciousness,he explains that he was actually trying to CLOSE the gate.Storm realises Naze has tricked her but befor she can think further Forge launches them off the summit of the mountain.Instead of falling they turn into white "Soul-light" and are drawn into the open "gate".

Naze,below, senses Forges departure and demonstrates awesome power by destroying the mountain.Are Naze and "The Great Trickster" one and the same??!

[Imraith Nimphais]

Okies ...I have not read it through yet...but that opening line about Storm looking stunning in her native American Indian outfit...just brought tears to my eyes....seriously...no kidding...Yer gonna do a great job filling in for David...i just needed to say that.

[Imraith Nimphais]

Dear David, here's hoping...and praying...for your speedy and complete recovery back to health...take it easy guy. Best wishes an' all that...

[Anodyne]

Thoughts on #223:

--What's the point of pg.8.I don't see where it's going.I can't remember it leading on to anything?Who is the journalist Mr. B?
I don't know who Mr. B is, but the reporter named Neal Conan will definitely play a major role in upcoming issues. He's also a real-life journalist with NPR. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=2100380

[worstblogever]

A looming fight between the X-Men and an all new, all bigger Freedom Force?

Hell yeah.

The Storm/Naze/Forge storyline seems like it's taking forever, at least by the standards of the 80s plot developments.

[limerick]

Thoughts on Uncanny #224:

--Storm knows how to accessorize!When Naze replaces her outfit damaged in the previous battle she really goes for all the extras----and looks amazing.She should keep this as her new costume permanantly
--Naze really does dupe Storm.It's a bit disappointing she has so little faith in Forge.
--One thing that has always puzzled me has been Destinys age??Is she supposed to be as old as she looks?
--Interesting that Rogue goes to the gym in her X-men costume.Gone are the O5 days where the X-men had "secret identities".The only 2 X-men who are "masked" are Wolverine and Havok.I guess being an X-men is a full time job now!But it does raise questions about how the X-men can go out-and-about without being recognised/arrested.Rogue is surely wanted after her Malice-inspired wrecking spree in #214.Also Storm must be one of the most recognisible women in the U.S.?
--Someone asked recently why Longshot wasn't keen to get back to MOJOworld to rescue his people and Richochet Rita.But from his statement on pg.10 he obviously still has no memory as he does not recognize Rita's name.
--The poster for "Raiders of The Lost Temple" seems to be a homage to one of the Longshot covers.Oh!I've just twigged this was the movie Longshot and Rita worked on in the Longshot mini.
--Again Storm seems very profecient in battle for someone who is powerless and holds her own against the multitude of demons.Claremont seems to be concious of this and refers to how she has "other skills all of which merge into the totality that is Storm"
--Finally where has Forge been?He looks 20 years younger and seeems to have had a hair transplant.Nothing like looking your best before getting stabbed by your ex-lover!

[limerick]

[QUOTE=david r;8567293]http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.224.GIF

[david r]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.224.GIF

Limerick, here is the cover. Use this image for future covers. Go into Quote here and just change the number "224" at the end to match the issue number you're currently reading.

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/pages/97792366288.224.P1.GIF

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/pages/97792366288.224.P2.GIF

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/pages/97792366288.224.P3.GIF

[limerick]

David,thanks for the tip-----we literally pressed the button at the same second there!

[david r]

David,thanks for the tip-----we literally pressed the button at the same second there!

:biggrin: Yeah, you're right. It must mean a "Passing of the torch". Have fun with this! :smile:

[limerick]

Thanks,David.So glad you will still be contributing to some extent.Onwards and upwards!

[david r]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/98507962585.1.GIF

[Cub]

Alan Davis rules.

[limerick]

RE:#224

There was an annoying cardboard insert placed between the cover and the first page of the December 1987 Marvels.It mentions the New series...."Excalibur"as well as promoting "The Fall of The Mutants" which will run across the 3 X-titles simultaneously for 3 issues.Excalibur is mentioned as coming in December which is probably 2 months away as the cover dates are usually a couple of months ahead.

The annoying thing about the cardboard was it was impossible to read the issue comfortably with it in place.You had to physically hold the issue open rather than just rest it on a surface to read as it tended to close the pages of the comic.It looked like it would be very hard to remove without damaging the book.I experienced the same annoyance reading this issue today as I had done over 20 years ago.

I'm sure everyone felt this way as I don't remember the experiment being repeated.

[limerick]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/98507962585.1.GIF
Yeah Cub,this poster is cool.

Is it just me or does Artie(of X-Factor fame) appear to be alive?!

And I don't see Doug of The NM.You would think he would feature with his major event coming up.

[david r]

RE:#224

There was an annoying cardboard insert placed between the cover and the first page of the December 1987 Marvels.It mentions the New series...."Excalibur"as well as promoting "The Fall of The Mutants" which will run across the 3 X-titles simultaneously for 3 issues.Excalibur is mentioned as coming in December which is probably 2 months away as the cover dates are usually a couple of months ahead.

The annoying thing about the cardboard was it was impossible to read the issue comfortably with it in place.You had to physically hold the issue open rather than just rest it on a surface to read as it tended to close the pages of the comic.It looked like it would be very hard to remove without damaging the book.I experienced the same annoyance reading this issue today as I had done over 20 years ago.

I'm sure everyone felt this way as I don't remember the experiment being repeated.

Yes, that is annoying. My copy still has that insert. I can't put the comic down as the cardboard warps the pages. I'm glad Marvel didn't continue this. (However, this new series Excalibur looks promising.) :tongue:

[HarrisonJohn]

Yeah Cub,this poster is cool.

Is it just me or does Artie(of X-Factor fame) appear to be alive?!



haha, I always notice that on that artwork... everyone is "dead" and he looks like he is waking from a nice nap.... I wonder if it just looks that way, or the artist wanted to add a bit of life in there.

[Cub]

I do find it hilarious that Storm's bosom is center stage in this picture. Even in death, though, bitch looks good. Warlock looks a MESS.

[HarrisonJohn]

Beasts crotch is also on display.

[sbo]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/98507962585.1.GIF

I seem to recall seeing a remake of this artwork, everyone's dead and in the same poses, but they're all wearing swimsuits.
Anyone know where that was from?

[MartinRedmond]

Yes, that is annoying. My copy still has that insert. I can't put the comic down as the cardboard warps the pages. I'm glad Marvel didn't continue this. (However, this new series Excalibur looks promising.) :tongue:

You guys know it's not forbidden by law to remove it, right?:biggrin:

[Nevets F]

Sorry to see you stop your summaries David, but glad you asked Limerick to continue them. :) I hope you still come in and contribute...speaking of which, I still read these threads, but have been lacking in the comments recently.

Limerick, will you be taking on all the threads...yes, we all know I am asking about Alpha Flight in particular here, haha.

Also...will you be starting an "Excalibur" thread?

Good luck with this Limerick, I look forward to seeing your summaries!

[limerick]

Sorry to see you stop your summaries David, but glad you asked Limerick to continue them. :) I hope you still come in and contribute...speaking of which, I still read these threads, but have been lacking in the comments recently.

Limerick, will you be taking on all the threads...yes, we all know I am asking about Alpha Flight in particular here, haha.

Also...will you be starting an "Excalibur" thread?

Good luck with this Limerick, I look forward to seeing your summaries!
Yes ,Steven,I am hoping to return to the Alpha threads very soon-I have the full run so may as well give it a go!I also hope to start the Excalibur thread soon,when it fits in chronologically.(Probably,Wolverine too.).Thank for the good wishes and great to see you posting again---you were sorely missed!

[limerick]

Yes, that is annoying. My copy still has that insert. I can't put the comic down as the cardboard warps the pages. I'm glad Marvel didn't continue this. (However, this new series Excalibur looks promising.) :tongue:
It certainly does!:biggrin: Thanks for the Fall of The Mutants poster ,David.Very much appreciated because as I said before----MOD ,I am not!

[limerick]

haha, I always notice that on that artwork... everyone is "dead" and he looks like he is waking from a nice nap.... I wonder if it just looks that way, or the artist wanted to add a bit of life in there.
It was like DAVIS just couldn't bring himself to kill Artie!Lolol

[Nevets F]

Yes ,Steven,I am hoping to return to the Alpha threads very soon-I have the full run so may as well give it a go!I also hope to start the Excalibur thread soon,when it fits in chronologically.(Probably,Wolverine too.).Thank for the good wishes and great to see you posting again---you were sorely missed!

You're awesome Limerick! Thanks for the kind words, I have been around, just not posting much. These are still the threads I go to first when I come to CBR. :)

[david r]

Hi. I would like to thank Limerick for continuing these "From the Beginning" threads. I guess an explanation is in order as to *why*/what happened to me that I had to stop. Well, change is happening to me, as change seems to be happening everywhere these days.

First off, I'm not going anywhere. That is good news for me. And maybe good news for you, though I understand there might be some differing views on that from your end. :tongue: I will still be dropping by these threads and bringing artwork and comments. Interviews with creators, which I had planned to increase.

But the simple fact is, after seventeen months, 223 issues of Uncanny X-Men, 55 issues of New Mutants, 40 issues of Alpha Flight and all of X-Men: Hidden Years , plus myriad Annuals, specials and mini-series...........I'm tired. I returned from my trip/vacation last week and my back was killing me. As well as other health issues are worsening. And being on the computer too long seems to worsen them. When I started this thread in October, 2007, I had no health problems at all. But since then, things have spiraled. If I am on the computer too long, I may pay with pain for days.

I need to spend time exercising and trying to fix them. But how will 8 hours eaten up at work (ugh!), then exercise (30 minutes), followed by reading a comic (1 hour), then writing a review/summary (30 minutes), then responding to other people's posts, reading my email, perusing the news, etc. It's just becoming too much.

Also, after reading UXM #224, I sat in front of my computer to post a review.....and the enthusiasm wasn't there. I've written hundreds of them, and I think I've pretty much shot the load. And as the issues get more huge, with massive plots and action in each one (thanks to Mr. Claremont), it takes even longer to post a summary.

I had rather ambitious plans for this thread. Maybe too ambitious, and surely would have been controversial later down the line. I'm sure I would have lost some readers, but gained a few. It probably would have been a train wreck. But after thinking about it for awhile, I think it's best that someone else continues this the right way, and I'm sure Limerick will do a right honorable job of keeping this going. I will help with all sorts of stuff as well. But if Limerick is willing, he can shoulder the weight of the reviews/summaries. I considered Worstblogever but remembered him posting a while back he didn't envy me this task. So I wasn't sure he'd be interested.

I'm sure this has been long-winded, but I felt I should give some explanation why I've dropped out. It's sad because we're about to enter one of my favorite periods of X-Men history ever. And my appetite for reading the issues themselves hasn't decreased. If anything, my appetite for reading has increased!! But posting the reviews I cannot continue at this time. Still, doesn't it warm you to know someone tried? That they put some effort into the thing? Isn't that what life is about? You work on your little corner of the world even though, in the long run, we're all gone and the work has to fade.

Charles, Scott, Jean, Hank, Bobby, Warren, Logan, Ororo, Kurt, Peter, Sean, Kitty, Rogue, Magnus, Betsy, Illyana, Rahne, Dani, Sam, Roberto. How can I ever forget you?

[CallMeGeoff]

David, you started an online sensation! I think you deserve a break!

Seriously, reading X-Men should be nothing short of joyous. If you're not enjoying it anymore, then that's a problem. It's time to just sit back, relax, and let someone else (Go Limerick!) do the heavy lifting. It's certainly not worth your health.

You've done a great service to X-Men fans. Thanks for working so hard on these threads, it really shows. They've been a joy to read!

And thank GOD they're not ending! Thank you Limerick for stepping up and taking over (no pressure! :biggrin:). You've done great so far, keep it up!

[Imraith Nimphais]

I feel I need to reiterate...Storm is SO FRAKKIN' STUNNING!!! in those opening pages...thanx fer posting D.

[limerick]

David,thanks your frank explanation as to why your cutting back your workload.You are definitely doing the right thing.Your health is PARAMOUNT!I already appreciate more ,the huge task you had undertaken.I am enjoying it so far...but it's very early days!I am DELIGHTED to hear you will be contibuting more artwork/interviews.They have been very much a highlight of these thread and would not be my strong point.I feel you will enjoy the threads more if you are under less stress and am looking foward to your always informative posts.

Regards,your friend(and sidekick!),Limerick

[limerick]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.225.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #225 ..............January 1988

"False Dawn"

Claremont/Silvestri

Edinburgh,Scotland:Peter(Colossus) is relaxing on a side street sketching the X-men while being watched by some kids.They playfully re-enact the X-mens recent battle with The Juggernaught.Peter is sweating purfusely as if under some strain.He tells them he is only recently released from hospital.

After the kids leave Colossus notices a beautiful girl nearby who asks him to sketch her.In return she reads his palm.It is obvious she knows more about him than he does her.She tells him that he will soon make a "choice,after which nothing will be the same.....and on which everything depends".She suddenly vanishes leaving behind a Colossus shaped chess piece.

Suddenly startled by a firecracker Peter reverts to Colossus form and reveals that his natural state is now as Colossus.He has to concentrate hard to stay in human form.Frightening the nearby children with his mutant form he runs away.

Elsewhere:A place where all time and space is contained.A chess board with The X-men,Freedom Force,Forge and monsters recently defeated by Storm and Naze, laid out as pieces,resta on a table.Storm and Forges pieces are knocked over as if out of the game.Colossus's piece is not present.Suddenly ,in a blast of chaos Naze(The Trickster) appears on the chess board in full Native Indian gear.The Trickster has trapped Roma,who had earlier appeared to Colossus as the mysterious palm-reader.The Trickster boasts how he is sure to defeat her now he has removed Storm and Forge from the game.She is confident she has an ace up her sleeve.

Edinburgh:Colossus is frustrated at a "wanted" poster for the X-men.He is enraged that although they are heroes, the public hate and fear them.The moment of anger over he tries to revert to Peter but is unable.Originally intending to return to Muir Isle ,while gazing at his chess piece he decides instead to rejoin the X-men.He will not give up on humanity.He tries to phone from a phonebox but almost destroies it in the process.His new natural Metallic form is much stronger than before.Eventually, he manages to contact the x-mansion and his sister,Illyana ,quickly materialises and transports him away.

Dallas,Texas:Rogue flies over Forge's building,Eagle Plaza,but can see nothing of note inside.Wolverine enters but is quickly shot by the buildings automated defences.He is rescued by Dazzler,Longshot and Havok.Suddenly,Freedom Force appears,intent on arresting The X-men.Mystique claims she also wants to save the X-men from their foretold deaths.A massive battle ensues.Colossus suddenly materialise courtesy of Magik to join the battle.

The X-men are taking a bit of a pasting and decide to retreat and regroup to Eagle Plaza.Destiny shouts at them not to enter as whoever is in the tower at dawn will....DIE!!Although nighttime,a huge gaping hole appears in the sky through which sunlight shines.Somethings not right and Destiny expects the end of The X-Men and.....the world!

[limerick]

Thoughts on Uncanny X-men #225:

--The first X-men issue in the Fall of The Mutants phase---it ROCKS!!!!
--Colossus is back and how!Newly powered as a result of his injures in The Mutant Massacre,he looks(and is)stronger than ever.But why is he wearing Y-fronts on the cover?!His sudden recovery is unexplained,which is a little annoying.I feel Claremont just didn't have time to fill out those details.As previously stated in this thread, Colossus seemed destined for the pages of Excalibur.But the presence of powerhouse Cap. Britain in that title and the sudden lack of one in The X-men seemed to change his mind at the last minute.He works this into the story with Colossus's sudden change in destiny being part of the story.Nice work,fella!
--That cover!Has Dazz ever looked better?S-E-X-Y.Mind you Mystique and Rogue don't look half-bad either.Where do they work out/who is their plastic surgeon?:wink:
--Stonewalls and Blob's powers seem very similar,almost identical.One sticks to the ground and is unmovable and the other....well.....sticks to the..ground and..is ...well..unmovable..so there.Freedom Force have reserves/substitutes now!
--Nice to see Super-Sabre cut down a peg or 2(pg. 20).His finger-clicking trick had been getting a bit annoying.
--But the best bit of a great issue has to be Wolverine's line:"Happy landings,Tubbo" after planting 3 claws in The Blobs bountiful backside--his face is priceless!:biggrin:

[limerick]

Okay,I'm sorry...I pressed the button twice...I'm human

[david r]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.225.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #225 ..............January 1988

"False Dawn"

Claremont/Silvestri

Edinburgh,Scotland:Peter(Colossus) is relaxing on a side street sketching the X-men while being watched by some kids.They playfully re-enact the X-mens recent battle with The Juggernaught.Peter is sweating purfusely as if under some strain.He tells them he is only recently released from hospital.

After the kids leave Colossus notices a beautiful girl nearby who asks him to sketch her.In return she reads his palm.It is obvious she knows more about him than he does her.She tells him that he will soon make a "choice,after which nothing will be the same.....and on which everything depends".She suddenly vanishes leaving behind a Colossus shaped chess piece.

Suddenly startled by a firecracker Peter reverts to Colossus form and reveals that his natural state is now as Colossus.He has to concentrate hard to stay in human form.Frightening the nearby children with his mutant form he runs away.

Elsewhere:A place where all time and space is contained.A chess board with The X-men,Freedom Force,Forge and monsters recently defeated by Storm and Naze, laid out as pieces,resta on a table.Storm and Forges pieces are knocked over as if out of the game.Colossus's piece is not present.Suddenly ,in a blast of chaos Naze(The Trickster) appears on the chess board in full Native Indian gear.The Trickster has trapped Roma,who had earlier appeared to Colossus as the mysterious palm-reader.The Trickster boasts how he is sure to defeat her now he has removed Storm and Forge from the game.She is confident she has an ace up her sleeve.

Edinburgh:Colossus is frustrated at a "wanted" poster for the X-men.He is enraged that although they are heroes, the public hate and fear them.The moment of anger over he tries to revert to Peter but is unable.Originally intending to return to Muir Isle ,while gazing at his chess piece he decides instead to rejoin the X-men.He will not give up on humanity.He tries to phone from a phonebox but almost destroies it in the process.His new natural Metallic form is much stronger than before.Eventually, he manages to contact the x-mansion and his sister,Illyana ,quickly materialises and transports him away.

Dallas,Texas:Rogue flies over Forge's building,Eagle Plaza,but can see nothing of note inside.Wolverine enters but is quickly shot by the buildings automated defences.He is rescued by Dazzler,Longshot and Havok.Suddenly,Freedom Force appears,intent on arresting The X-men.Mystique claims she also wants to save the X-men from their foretold deaths.A massive battle ensues.Colossus suddenly materialise courtesy of Magik to join the battle.

The X-men are taking a bit of a pasting and decide to retreat and regroup to Eagle Plaza.Destiny shouts at them not to enter as whoever is in the tower at dawn will....DIE!!Although nighttime,a huge gaping hole appears in the sky through which sunlight shines.Somethings not right and Destiny expects the end of The X-Men and.....the world!

This issue does ROCK! I agree with Limerick, that Colossus' return could have been done with more details on his recovery, but it was cool to see. When I saw Colossus on the cover, I was like, ALRIGHT! The Big Guy is back! I was surprised to learn Peter is trapped mostly in his steel body, and has high difficulty reverting to human form. As for the villains, Freedom Force were damn unbeatable BEFORE, but now they have Stonewall, Super Sabre and Crimson Commando. I was surprised the newer X-Men fought them to a standstill.

I liked those words spray-painted on the small wall, which read Orz 100. I am guessing this was Tom Orzechowski's 100th issue as letterer. I like little nods like that. Plus, is this Roma's 1st appearance? Did she appear in Captain Britain before?? I found the confrontation between her and this "Trickster" rather scary. I could just hear the Trickster/Adversary laughing as he rode that chessboard down to his chaos domain. I assume this was the astral plane, or maybe another dimension.

Alas, poor Wolverine gets the stuffing beat out of him in #225. Thank God he's nearly impossible to kill. Imagine what it would feel like to have the Blob crash down on you, "bountiful backside" first!! OUCH!!!

[CallMeGeoff]

This issue does ROCK! I agree with Limerick, that Colossus' return could have been done with more details on his recovery, but it was cool to see. When I saw Colossus on the cover, I was like, ALRIGHT! The Big Guy is back! I was surprised to learn Peter is trapped mostly in his steel body, and has high difficulty reverting to human form. As for the villains, Freedom Force were damn unbeatable BEFORE, but now they have Stonewall, Super Sabre and Crimson Commando. I was surprised the newer X-Men fought them to a standstill.

I liked those words spray-painted on the small wall, which read Orz 100. I am guessing this was Tom Orzechowski's 100th issue as letterer. I like little nods like that. Plus, is this Roma's 1st appearance? Did she appear in Captain Britain before?? I found the confrontation between her and this "Trickster" rather scary. I could just hear the Trickster/Adversary laughing as he rode that chessboard down to his chaos domain. I assume this was the astral plane, or maybe another dimension.

Alas, poor Wolverine gets the stuffing beat out of him in #225. Thank God he's nearly impossible to kill. Imagine what it would feel like to have the Blob crash down on you, "bountiful backside" first!! OUCH!!!

I think Roma did appear in Captain Britain first. I really really really want the Captain Britain Omnibus, but I really really really can't afford it. Such is life.

This issue is good times, and the whole arc is pretty solid. Action-packed, at least. I like that Mystique has good intentions here, although it is a far cry from the ruthless villain that we've seen for so many years. You'd almost think she actually LIKES being a good guy!

[worstblogever]

[B][I]Uncanny X-Men #225 ..............

Good build up issue to the fight... but what's the real threat here? And will Freedom Force and the X-Men stop fighting in time to deal with it? Why's Naze being a wanker to Roma (and who cares about those two)? Something mystic seems to be afoot.

This is a real surprise turn to bring Colossus back so fast, particularly by way of his little sister, who's supposed to be grounded forever by Magneto. Still, adding Piotr into the big brawl is hardly something I'd complain about.

[limerick]

Back with #226 on 2-4-09(or 4-2-09 for my American friends!).See ya then.:biggrin:

[david r]

Here is the first page to #225. I like the rendition of Peter Rasputin's sketches. Oddly, Kurt Wagner is not present.

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/pages/97792366288.225.P1.GIF

[CJ Lentze]

Thoughts on Uncanny X-men #225:--Colossus is back and how!Newly powered as a result of his injures in The Mutant Massacre,he looks(and is)stronger than ever.But why is he wearing Y-fronts on the cover?!His sudden recovery is unexplained,which is a little annoying.I feel Claremont just didn't have time to fill out those details.As previously stated in this thread, Colossus seemed destined for the pages of Excalibur.But the presence of powerhouse Cap. Britain in that title and the sudden lack of one in The X-men seemed to change his mind at the last minute.He works this into the story with Colossus's sudden change in destiny being part of the story.Nice work,fella!Well, they had Rogue. The X-Men had gone for over 30 issues with two powerhouses on their team, which didn't feel like overkill at all, but kind of reassuring.--That cover!Has Dazz ever looked better?S-E-X-Y.Mind you Mystique and Rogue don't look half-bad either.Where do they work out/who is their plastic surgeon?:wink: It could all be owed to their mutant physiology, as established by Mr. Stan Lee in the sixties.

--Stonewalls and Blob's powers seem very similar,almost identical.One sticks to the ground and is unmovable and the other....well.....sticks to the..ground and..is ...well..unmovable..so there.Freedom Force have reserves/substitutes now!Plus, Stonewall appears to be a match for the Blob, considering the latter failed to push the former down when they first met a few issues ago. It's nice to see that such an old-timer can hold his own against one of the X-Men's most tenacious and hard-to-beat villains.

--Nice to see Super-Sabre cut down a peg or 2(pg. 20).His finger-clicking trick had been getting a bit annoying.Me, I love that move. The "micro sonic boom". Commando, Sabre, and Stony are glorious as a campy nod to 1940s superheroes.


This issue is good times, and the whole arc is pretty solid. Action-packed, at least. I like that Mystique has good intentions here, although it is a far cry from the ruthless villain that we've seen for so many years. You'd almost think she actually LIKES being a good guy!Her good intentions seem to be framed within her genuine concern for Rogue. Otherwise, I'd say she's enjoying her Freedom Force missions strictly for the influence it gives her, and she's assessing how she can reap the fruits of this. I wonder how she feels about the rest of the X-Men, now. It appears as though she allows them to live because Rogue feels comfortable around them; that's what the look in her eyes way back in issue 178 tells me, when Rogue makes it clear to Mommy Dearest that the X-Men are helping her more than the Brotherhood ever did.

A little known fact on this message board is that Colossus is actually my second favourite X-Man (Rachel is my THIRD, while Cyclops is number one). Someone once described Peter's words to the children in this story as an "obligatory monthly 'mutants-aren't-monsters' speech", but I think this particular one, continued in a way in his personal thoughts a couple of pages later, was special and cut well to the core. Perhaps it's because it's Peter who's shown saying and thinking these things; at this point he still has a streak of naivety about him, despite the hardship he's been through so far. He's very young, 20 or 21. People don't know him as a thinker, we barely ever get his thoughts on serious matters (Storm, Wolvie, Cyclops get this far more often). It's good that he gets a page of reflection, but it's also typical for him to switch from 'What am I to do?" to "I know what must be done" very quickly. I don't think he completely defeats his doubts, but he lays them to rest for a while because there is a pre-established sense of what's 'right/good' that he adheres to, even though things look very bleak now.

The crowning moment of those pages is his reunion with Illyana; it's just heart-warming to see how the sight of his sister alone puts a smile on his face. He's also fighting the fight for her sake, for a great part.

The battle between the X-Men and the Brotherhood (I called them 'Freedom Force' ONCE in this post, I can't do it twice without cracking up and laughing myself into a stupor), was phenomenal as always. I do believe Havok's power has changed since he returned to the book. There was a time when it was described as an energy blast, not a plasma blast. He now worries that he shouldn't fire at Avalanche for fear of burning him; remember that, in one of his earliest appearances, he BUFFETED the Living Pharao with his blasts.

[limerick]

Schuimend,I always love your long posts--they're brilliant!

Just a final note on #225.There is a profile of Ann Neocenti in the Bullpen Bulletins page.Among her credits listed are The Longshot mini-series and The NEW Longshot mini series!I hadn't noticed this before but it may explain why Claremont has kept the character in neutral--he didn't want to interfere with the new upcoming mini.Does anyone ever know what became of it because I'm pretty sure it never got published.

[limerick]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.226.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #226 ..............February 1988

[B]"Go Tell The Spartans"

Claremont/Silvestri

Dallas,Texas:Wolverine's feeling the pain as his healing factor kicks in.He's in Forge's building along with Longshot,Colossus,Madylene Pryor and Havok.They have Mystique as their prisoner.Meanwhile,Freedom Force have Rogue,Psylocke and Dazzler captive outside Eagle's Plaza.Destiny predicts possibly the end of the world as she can no longer see the future for any of them!

Outside the area lighted by the unnatural sunlight a reporter's call pulls up.Neal Conan,t.v. journalist ,emerges with his engineer and enters the brightly lit area intent on telling the story to be told.

Meanwhile, Dazzler recovers conciousness and literally 'dazzles' Freedom Force with a 'dazzle-flash'.Going to help Rogue and Psylocke she doesn't notice that she missed Spiral.Spiral surprises her and uses a knife and her magic to bond Destiny's discarded mask to Dazzlers face rendering her bilnd.She next tries to decapitate Psylocke but is grabbed by a recovered Rogue.Spiral is suddenly startled by......

Elsewhere:Storm and Forge(who survived Storm's stabbing attempt) are alive.They are in a parallel earth where they are the only people,it seems.They are living in a cave in the Wyoming wilderness,probably a couple of days after the events of #224.Forge is unwell but recovering,and the couple have put their differences behind them.

Dallas:Within the 'dayzone' time has gone wild.Dinosaurs exist alongside primitive man alonside futuristic buildings.Wolverine realising there is a bigger danger releases Mystique and declares a truce with her.They decide they can best help by helping civilians.Colossus is convinced his destiny mentioned to him by the mysterious girl in #225 lies in Eagle's Plaza but he has not mentioned this to the others.

Neal Conan and his engineer accquire a video van,Longshot and Pyro take out a dinosaur and Wolverine and Super-Sabre help the local cops take out some Barbarians trapped out of time.Neal Conan begins recording The X-mens heroic actions and broadcasting it to the world.

Elsewhere:Forge and Storm travel to where Forge's 'mountain of power was.It has been destroyed by the Trickster in this parallel earth as well.The power exists within the destroyed mountain but destroys all that touches it.Forge suggests they accept their fate and enjoy their new life together but Storm will not give up on their home 'earth' and leaves Forge alone to find out answers she needs about this world..........

Dallas:The X-men and Freedom Force have joined forces to help the people unaffected by the time-waves.They are providing first aid and Psylocke is telepathically helping people calm down.The T.V. crew is capturing all this and Neal Conan interviews Mystique.Havok bursts into the live feed ranting how now people can see how The X-men are heroes and not the terrorists many people see them as.

Spiral ,meanwhile, is trying to undo the spell she cast on Dazzler earlier but much to her surprise and despite physical threats from Colossus, she is unable to remove the mask.

Elsewhere:Time is moving on much further in the parallel earth of Storm and Forge.Months must have passed and Storm is now back in Africa.She has returned to the place where her powers first manifested themselves and she saw a vision of Mother Earth.When she tries to call on Mother Earth to appear to her as before no vision appears and she concludes that this earth lacks a soul and 'the gift of a spirit to give it life'.She wonders if in this world she is meant to be Mother Earth(The Bright Lady).

Dallas:The Crimson Commando and Stonewall witness the arrival of a bunch of Cheyenne indians on horseback who have travelled from Wyoming in anticipation of The Tricksters attack.They claim Forge must help end the entity's attempt to destry the world by casting magic from atop the Eagle Tower.A racist cowboy opens fire on the Cheyenne with many others joining suit and the Native Americans are wiped out much to the disgust of The Crimson Commando and Stonewall.

Elsewhere:Again months have passed and Storm returns to where she left Forge in parallel earth Wyoming.He has worked wonders while she was away and has erected a house with SOLAR POWER!!(handy guy).They embrace and discuss their plight.

Dallas:The X-men and Freedom Force continue a battle against time-altered hordes.They are outnumbered and Neal Conan informs them The Avengers and The Fantasic 4 are being kept in reserve because of and ongoing battle in Manhattan(X-Factor vs. Apocylapse!)Colossus asks Destiny what she sees .She sees a glimmer of hope for mankind if they enter the Tower but all fates see the death of The X-men!Meanwhile the area of the Tricksters influence increases gradually.

While transmitting Peter's thoughts to Wolverine ,Pyslocke see the image of Roma in his thoughts and recognises her.She explains that she is a goddess and the X-men decide that Peter and the rest of them must enter Forge's Eerie to try and contact her.Spiral teleports there but is quickly dispatched back to the surface by some force.Rogue manages to save her---just.The X-men enter the Tower to try and get to the penthouse owned by Forge.The inside of the Tower has been transformed to Vietnam,recognised by Wolverine.

Elsewhere:Storm is faced with a choice offered by Forge----Stay in this parallel earth and become a new Adam and Eve to it or return to their earth and accept what fate awaits them there.Forge says he has a way to return home......

Dallas:The X-men,Freedom Force,Neal Conan and a Mysterious cowboy proceed into the Tower where they dispatch some Vietmanese attackers.Psylocke senses Roma ahead and Wolverine,although sensing a trap feels the X-men have no choice but to proceed.He insists that Freedom Force stay behind and saying their goodbyes, they proceed on.

Elsewhere:Forge explains that Storm retains her powers.She had only lost the ability to access them.......and he thinks he may have built adeviceto restore that ability.There are risks.It's a one-off try and injury/maiming is very possible.Of,course,there is really no chice and he fires the reparative device at her.They embrace and her powers return.She then uses her lightning to power a magic gate to return them to their own earth.

Dallas:The mysterious cowboy suddenly reveals himself to be The Trickster.He senses Forge and Storms return but promises it will change nothing!The rest of Freedom Force leave the building with The X-men,Neal Conan and the Trickstrer left inside.Dramatically the building is suddenly hit by lightning!

[david r]

Just a final note on #225.There is a profile of Ann Neocenti in the Bullpen Bulletins page.Among her credits listed are The Longshot mini-series and The NEW Longshot mini series!I hadn't noticed this before but it may explain why Claremont has kept the character in neutral--he didn't want to interfere with the new upcoming mini.Does anyone ever know what became of it because I'm pretty sure it never got published.

Ann Nocenti's return to Longshot has many fits & starts. First it was to be a big Longshot Graphic novel, with Art Adams. That morphed into a second limited series. These never happened. In 1989, a Longshot ongoing series was announced. To be written by Ann. I believe this is WHY Longshot leaves the X-Men. For unknown reasons, the Longshot ongoing never happened. And he entered limbo.

A little known fact on this message board is that Colossus is actually my second favourite X-Man (Rachel is my THIRD, while Cyclops is number one).

Rachel is your THIRD FAVORITE X-MAN?? Who knew??

[Cub]

Schuimend,I always love your long posts--they're brilliant!

Just a final note on #225.There is a profile of Ann Neocenti in the Bullpen Bulletins page.Among her credits listed are The Longshot mini-series and The NEW Longshot mini series!I hadn't noticed this before but it may explain why Claremont has kept the character in neutral--he didn't want to interfere with the new upcoming mini.Does anyone ever know what became of it because I'm pretty sure it never got published.

The idea was shelved when it finally dawned on x-editors that the Longshot mini-series woud be starring... Longshot.

I love love love this story arc. Silvestri's art is in top form. His slightly elongated style really works with the women. On 225's cover, Rogue looks bangin', even with her Richard Marx hairstyle/ receding hairline combo.

I always consider Roma such an Excalibur character that I forget she played a major role in X-Men history, as well. Though I do agree with whoever said, "who cares?" about her. She's kinda awesome in Captain Britain and Excalibur, but here she does come across as a bit generic, as far as all-powerful rulers of the omniverse go.

Did Piotr's return seem a bit rushed? Who cares, Colossus is back! Im glad they kept him on the team rather than move him to Excalibur. With the unpredictable and dark direction this book has taken, and half the cast newbies and the rest dark and angsty, the team needs someone more even-keeled, with a simple, slightly naive "do what's right" mentality coupled with years of battle experience.

Plus, I don't think he would have been a good fit with Excalibur at that period. One powerhouse is necessary, two just dandy, but three is overkill. And Meggan and Brian got there first, buddy. Also, I liked how all of the original team could fly (well, Kitty could airwalk, and Kurt teleport, but you know what I mean. None of them had to take the stairs.) Also, having Peter there would take away from Kitty's grief, and make it too much like just another x-book. Oooh, I need this From the Beginning thread so baaaaaaaaaad.... Hope you're up for it, Limerick! Though I have no doubts- you've been doing a kick-ass job so far. It's almost like David is Cyclops, leaving the team for personal reasons, and you're Storm! Or he's Charles, and you're Magneto, if you prefer. Anyway...

I love the teamup between Freedom Force and the X-Men. Has Havok given his little tirade to the camera yet? One of his best moments, IMO. Plus, though Mystique and the complexities of her personality are great, it's often a little hard to swallow when she acts altruistically. In this arc, however, it seems very believable.

Also, this arc will always make me pine for an Ororo/Forge reunion... le sigh...

[david r]

Hi Cub!

It's funny you mentioned Roma's appearance in #225, as this was the first issue where Marvel hints at a "bigger game" going on here. Showing that chess board with all the players (X-Men & Freedom Force) in Roma's dimensional palace. UXM #225 hints to far greater forces at play, than just the mutants and I think #225 reveals this for the 1st time.

It's also fun to watch Wolverine as the mutant equivalent to Mr. Bill. I like the look on his face as he watches the Blob falling towards him! Just imagine how that must have felt, as the Blob's "bountiful backside" landed on him!

[worstblogever]

So #226 has:

-A fight between the X-Men and Freedom Force, including a part of it where Spiral picks up Destiny's mask and magically stabs it into Dazzler's face (whoa!), Wolverine making the Blob... sit up. NICE!

- A team-up, implausible as it might seem, between the X-Men and Freedom Force to save innocents.

- More of the drama that's been building between Storm & Forge.

So, based off all that? Great issue. My favorite of the X-Men since the first fight against the Marauders, and for some time to come.

[CJ Lentze]

Rachel is your THIRD FAVORITE X-MAN?? Who knew??I spread my love around! Rachel just gets a lot of it because Cyclops and Colossus are generally more popular among the X-Men readership and already enjoy plenty support.

Does anyone else appreciate the blossoming relationship between Ororo and Forge - though it originally seemed a bit unconvincing to me- ; Ororo being pretty much the mutant personifcation of nature, and Forge representing technology? No wonder their relationship would be a bit rocky.

EDIT: Something I've been wondering: do Ororo and Forge age a year while on the parallel Earth? Their bodies have been transported there, and are now returning to Earth, where barely a week has passed. If this puts Storm 'ahead' a year when compared to the other X-Men, it's a minor factor to take into consideration while engaging in the always enjoyable activity of figuring out how old the X-Men are.

[limerick]

Issue #226 summary now finished above-----thoughts later!

[limerick]

I spread my love around! Rachel just gets a lot of it because Cyclops and Colossus are generally more popular among the X-Men readership and already enjoy plenty support.

Does anyone else appreciate the blossoming relationship between Ororo and Forge - though it originally seemed a bit unconvincing to me- ; Ororo being pretty much the mutant personifcation of nature, and Forge representing technology? No wonder their relationship would be a bit rocky.

EDIT: Something I've been wondering: do Ororo and Forge age a year while on the parallel Earth? Their bodies have been transported there, and are now returning to Earth, where barely a week has passed. If this puts Storm 'ahead' a year when compared to the other X-Men, it's a minor factor to take into consideration while engaging in the always enjoyable activity of figuring out how old the X-Men are.
Yes,I definitely think they age a year.Time moves as normal for them in the parallel earth.

[limerick]

Thoughts on Uncanny X-Men #226:

--Wow!A genuine classic!And what a stonker at 40 pages.My hands are worn out from typing!
--Standout 1:Claremont's ingenious method of wrapping up the Storm/Forge story---the parallel earth idea allows him to condense a years worth of ideas into one issue.This storyline minus the parallel earth portion could basically have been told over a year with page inserts in normal issues.Story:Storm & Forge get together--disagree about future---Storm goes to Africa to face past---Storm returns to Forge----Forge restores Storms powers.Was this a years worth of subplot fast fowarded in one issue due to upcoming events???
--Standout 2:Havok's rant to the camera.Nice one,cub!I love the way Silvestri draws Havok's uniform.I know there was a recent interview where he said he hated it.It looks better than ever.That headpiece is a design classic!
--Standout 3:Claremont's scientific explanation for the reversal of Storm's power loss.It just makes complete sense when you read it.
--One thing which has me completely confused is the last frame of pg.8.Spiral is suddenly startled by something---but what."SOARING SPITFIRES??!!"What is she reacting to....unexplained.No-Prize to the best explanation!
--I do think Silvestri's art isn't up to the usual standard in a few places.That's due to double-sized issue deadlines,I suppose.

[CJ Lentze]

Thoughts on Uncanny X-Men #226:

--Wow!A genuine classic!And what a stonker at 40 pages.My hands are worn out from typing!
--Standout 1:Claremont's ingenious method of wrapping up the Storm/Forge story---the parallel earth idea allows him to condense a years worth of ideas into one issue.This storyline minus the parallel earth portion could basically have been told over a year with page inserts in normal issues.Story:Storm & Forge get together--disagree about future---Storm goes to Africa to face past---Storm returns to Forge----Forge restores Storms powers.Was this a years worth of subplot fast fowarded in one issue due to upcoming events???
--Standout 2:Havok's rant to the camera.Nice one,cub!I love the way Silvestri draws Havok's uniform.I know there was a recent interview where he said he hated it.It looks better than ever.That headpiece is a design classic!
--Standout 3:Claremont's scientific explanation for the reversal of Storm's power loss.It just makes complete sense when you read it.
--One thing which has me completely confused is the last frame of pg.8.Spiral is suddenly startled by something---but what."SOARING SPITFIRES??!!"What is she reacting to....unexplained.No-Prize to the best explanation!
--I do think Silvestri's art isn't up to the usual standard in a few places.That's due to double-sized issue deadlines,I suppose.One thing about the explanation that's given about how the Neutralizer weapon worked, described as 'erasing the RNA codes that enable [Storm] to access [her powers]'-- this explanation had actually been suggested by a fan who had written a letter (which appeared on an earlier letters page) shortly after Storm had lost her powers - the editors liked this idea, so I think half the credit goes to him/her (I no longer have the issue).

As for the fast forwards on the parallel Earth, it's nice that Storm's return to Africa echoes her soul search of 3-2 years earlier, when she was doing something very similar.
Also something that made me scratch my head a little, Storm would have had to fashion herself a raft or a boat to get from North America to Africa. I suppose it isn't impossible, but crossing the Atlantic without much tech or nav may seem a bit unlikely.

[MartinRedmond]

She just lied about it. Storm's sneaky like that.

[CJ Lentze]

She just lied about it. Storm's sneaky like that.She just spent the entire year on Malibu Beach, and left Forge to his tinkering. Must have been real quiet too, considering there was no one else there to disturb her. The whole Africa sequence, that was just her hallucinating, induced by hyperthermia.

[limerick]

Yeah,I had thought about her journey.Wyoming to atlantic coast,atlantic crossing,locating the place of her youth in Africa unaided(dangerous wildlife aside) and then back again!A year----I doubt it.