X-Men from the Beginning

[david r]

I thought D'Ken had tampered with the M'Kraan Crystal. Even though no, we don't actually see him do it. DDM, do you know the answer on this one??

[david r]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.181.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #181

"Tokyo Story"

1st appearance: Amiko

At last, the X-Men return from the Secret Wars world. They have been gone for a week. There have been some surprising changes. #1 being Charles Xavier wears a striking yellow-and-black costume! The black covers the chest area like a large X. Very appropriate, Charley! :cool: I guess it is similiar to the classic training costumes of the Original 5. Oh, and Charles Xavier is up and walking around. It definitely seems odd. He seems to have JOINED the X-Men!

On a hillside near Tokyo, Japan, a HUGE green- dragon materializes in the sky, hovering large. The X-Men soon *POP* below him and fall to the earth. They are Storm, Wolverine, Nightcrawler, Rogue, Colossus and Professor Charles Xavier. They are back from an adventure on the Beyonder's world, and all are tired. But grateful to be back on Mother Earth. The mutants confer for a conference on the hillside (while Japanese youths admire them from a distance!) Lockheed is with them, and the little dragon made friends with a female dragon on the Secret Wars world. This dragon came with them, but has somehow turned huge, and is rampaging over Tokyo. Xavier orders Rogue to return to the Mansion to inquire how Kitty Pryde, Cyclops and the New Mutants are doing. Both Storm and Wolverine bristle at Xavier taking the leadership role, instead of Ororo.

In a Japanese National Command Center, the Japanese defense forces notice the giant green dragon on their radars. Mariko Yashida is there as well. Godzilla and Monster Island are mentioned; so I guess the creators here are fans of the old Godzilla movies! The Japanese are old pros at this game; and send out the tanks & Air Force to confront the giant monster!! Lockheed's female friend swoops over downtown Tokyo and begins tearing apart a building under construction. The X-Men fly in (under Storm's winds) and begin saving civilians and stopping wreckage from hitting the street. Sunfire as the protector of Japan gives a helping hand. He is his usual cocky self. Wolverine saves a young Japanese girl, named Amiko, from the debris. But her mother dies in Wolverine's arms. Wolverine promises to see the child raised as if she were his own. A pretty noble act. Something the Wolverine of old NEVER would have done. In the end, it is Lockheed who saves the day. He confronts his huge lady-love, and shoots fire and cocks at her. The female dragon is confused, and flies away over the Pacific Ocean. Lockheed follows, there is a blinding flash!! And the female dragon is gone.

The issue ends with the X-Men helping move casualties into ambulances in Tokyo. Cyclops lands safely in Hawaii, with Madelyne Pryor waiting for him with loving arms. We learn the dragon *MAY* have been pregnant and was building a massive nest with building parts. And to top it all off....we meet up with Senator Robert Kelly, who is pushing through legislation in Congress. The legislation is titled The Mutant Affairs Control Act.

My thoughts: One of my favorite things about #181 is the memorable cover. "Young Dragons in Love"! Charles Xavier standing with a "What! Me Worry?" stance. And the cuddly X-Men hanging out around the cover logo! One of my favorites. This whole story is just good, clean fun with dragons and hyper Japanese kids. And best of all, Lockheed finally wins a battle! Way to go, dragon! But seriously, Charles Xavier walking and taking part in stories is striking to see. He even is trampled under wreckage at one point, and panics that his legs are paralyzed again! I guess the horrors of Lucifer are not forgotten. But the mutants return home in their usual way....making a BIG SPLASH!!

[DDM]

I have a question:
The M'Kraan Crystal aligned with the 9 stars and that opens it.
OK, makes sense so far.
D'Ken wanted the power he'd find inside; when everything aligned, reality was altered or disappeared for a second.

So, wouldn't that have happened on its own anyway, because I don't see D'Ken touching the crystal or anybody interfering with it when it aligns with the 9 stars.

Or am I looking too much into this?

D'Ken was mad already since he believed he could control the power of the M'Krann Crystal. He could not. He did not know what "The end of all it is" was since the crystal made him catatonic; however, the X-Men & Starjammers learns "the end of all it is" is the Neutron Galaxy which would set in motion to collapse the universe into a monstrous black hole. Yes, for a moment when everything blinked, reality ceased to exist.

The 9 death-stars are not stars at all, but ENTIRE GALAXIES in alignment!

To enter the crystal, someone had to sacrifice his life to the Soul Drinker (intended for his sister, Lilandra). D'Ken wanted to be present so he could tap into the M'Krann Crystal's power; however, without his help, the M'Krann Crystal may not have posed as much of a threat since he would not have been present. Once inside the crystal, Cyclops' optic blast shatters the anti-energy web that holds the Neutron Galaxy back. And Phoenix, through touching the energy previously, becomes linked with this anti-energy; this link--along with her infinite powers as Phoenix--allows her to save the universe & recreate the anti-energy web through her telepathy & telekinesis with the spiritual help of the other X-Men as her anchor.

[creaky]

Wolverine saves a young Japanese girl, named Amiko, from the debris. But her mother dies in Wolverine's arms. Wolverine promises to see the child raised as if she were his own. A pretty noble act. Something the Wolverine of old NEVER would have done.

Well, this Wolverine didn't, either. Looking back at what happened afterwards, Logan didn't fulfill his promise in the least. :frown:

[Dr. Ghost]

when i read issue 107, i thought d'ken just wanted to kill lilandra 'cause she got in his way. is the "sacrifice to open the crystal" idea mentioned in a later issue?

[david r]

Well, this Wolverine didn't, either. Looking back at what happened afterwards, Logan didn't fulfill his promise in the least. :frown:

I didn't know that. Does the child Amiko appear again? I thought she did...

when i read issue 107, i thought d'ken just wanted to kill lilandra 'cause she got in his way. is the "sacrifice to open the crystal" idea mentioned in a later issue?


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/4e/D%27Ken_40956_2.jpg/250px-D%27Ken_40956_2.jpg

Not really. The M'Kraan really doesn't appear again in any major way. At least not up till UXM #181. D'Ken wants to sacrifice Lilandra because she's his sister, and he's just evil that way. The rest of the Dark Phoenix mega-arc doesn't involve the M'Kraan Crystal. (Though Dark Phoenix does have plans for it....but those plans don't happen. You'll read it soon enough!) :wink:

BTW, Dr. Ghost, you say you've read X-MEN since #1 recently? What are your thoughts on the book so far?

[worstblogever]

I didn't know that. Does the child Amiko appear again? I thought she did...


Oh, she does. Every now and then they'd mention her in a Wolverine comic, and usually she'd be a plot device where some Yakuza boss or other old enemy of Wolverine's would kidnap her from Yukio (who became a ninja/assassin/babysitter for whatever reason) to get to Logan.

And then... well... her chronolgical appearances:
http://www.comicbookdb.com/character_chron.php?ID=6371

And her Wiki entry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiko_Kobayashi

If you're interested.

[Dr. Ghost]

Not really. The M'Kraan really doesn't appear again in any major way. At least not up till UXM #181. D'Ken wants to sacrifice Lilandra because she's his sister, and he's just evil that way. The rest of the Dark Phoenix mega-arc doesn't involve the M'Kraan Crystal. (Though Dark Phoenix does have plans for it....but those plans don't happen. You'll read it soon enough!) :wink:

BTW, Dr. Ghost, you say you've read X-MEN since #1 recently? What are your thoughts on the book so far?
Well, the first issues were ok, but it felt more like a chore to read than anything else, especially with those weird B sci-fi movie plots (giant locusts!).
However, it was interesting to read the issues which had the origins of things and characters that would show up again, like the Danger Room, Cerebro, Banshee, Lorna Dane, Alex Summers, etc.

Giant Size #1 is where I felt that it started to pick up. Jean Grey getting her Phoenix powers and then Lilandra being rescued by the X-Men on a planet so far away, with a little help from space pirates, have been the storylines that stand out so far.
Well, that, and Psi-War.
Xavier killing that guy and walking out like it's just another day was badass.

And that's all I've read up to so far.

edit: Some of these things reminded me of anime.
The Super Adaptoid reminded me of Cell from Dragonball Z:
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix4/superadaptoid1.jpg
http://blog.filiperibeiro.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/cell1.jpg

And the Psi-War reminded me of JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, specifically the humanoid Stands.

[creaky]

I didn't know that. Does the child Amiko appear again? I thought she did...

Here's her Wiki. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiko_Kobayashi) The last sentence is the worst: (...)now spends time with them trying to improve her martial arts skills, and hoping to make her adoptive father Logan proud of her. :frown:

[Leirus]

The X-men have gone missing! The New Mutants are left alone! At this point in the X-Men's story, they have gone with many Marvel heroes to the Beyonder's world in Secret Wars, a mini-series which shook Marvel in 1984. Magneto tags along as well. Cyclops is scooped away from his honeymoon with Madelyne Pryor to join the fun. I guess the most revelatory moment for Xavier's mutants is Colossus falling in love with this native alien girl, and realizing he does not TRULY love Kitty Pryde. This will have ramifications back on Earth.

The Colossus/Kitty pair is my prefered couple in all the Marvel universe (Colossus being gay in the Ultimate line nearly left me schyzophrenic, on one hand, I loved to have a main X-man gay, on the other it meant the pairing was impossible). I do not think Colossus was really in love with Zsaji, but, as Wolverine stated issues later, he was fleeing from Kitty, scared of compromise, responsabilities and Doug Ramsey the pimp boy.

[david r]

Creaky, WBE: Arigato! I could have sworn Amiko went on to bigger & better things. I wonder why Chris Claremont started this Wolverine "adopted father" plot and never followed through with anything?

Dr. Ghost, naturally, some of the 1960s issues are difficult to get through. Just like you, I enjoyed seeing classics like Cerebro, Banshee, Sentinels, etc. make their 1st appearances. Other things didn't last, like Grotesk, Ted Roberts and Scott Summers' job as a radio correspondent! :tongue: I'm still waiting for conclusion to that one!

Did you like the Neal Adams issues, #56-64? Where they introduced Sauron and the Savage Land Mutates? I felt that was when it picked up considerably. But of course, after GSXM #1, it improves a lot, IMO. (And maybe Cell was inspired by the Super-Adaptoid. The Super-Adaptoid came out WAY before Cell.)

Leirus, It's been hinted strongly in UXM that Kitty and Peter were destined for each other. This abrupt end to their relationship was because of internal politics. You may be right that Colossus ended the fledgling romance because of responsibility. But that seems unlike him. Piotr seems mature enough. Maybe Peter doesn't want to get...arrested??

[Dr. Ghost]

Dr. Ghost, naturally, some of the 1960s issues are difficult to get through. Just like you, I enjoyed seeing classics like Cerebro, Banshee, Sentinels, etc. make their 1st appearances. Other things didn't last, like Grotesk, Ted Roberts and Scott Summers' job as a radio correspondent! :tongue: I'm still waiting for conclusion to that one!

Did you like the Neal Adams issues, #56-64? Where they introduced Sauron and the Savage Land Mutates? I felt that was when it picked up considerably. But of course, after GSXM #1, it improves a lot, IMO. (And maybe Cell was inspired by the Super-Adaptoid. The Super-Adaptoid came out WAY before Cell.)

Other things that never got cleared up:
Jean in college, Jean's classmate who found out that they're really the X-Men, Jean's sister that lives in Albany. Did I forget anything?
Grotesk was the underground guy, right? I forgot who Ted Roberts was.

I didn't like Sauron, but the Savage Land freaks were ok.
I think Cell was...oh, about 25-30 years after the super adaptoid, so you're right.

Out of all the new X-Men, I liked Nightcrawler the most because he tried to be friends with everyone, and he had a child-like admiration for some of the things they experience, like when they're in space.

edit: are you familiar with jojo's bizarre adventure?
it's simillar to xavier's psi-war.
think of a series where the astral plane forms show up as spirits that can fight other spirits in the real world.
only others with the same power can see them.
for a manga, it's as unique as they come.

[creaky]

Creaky, WBE: Arigato! I could have sworn Amiko went on to bigger & better things. I wonder why Chris Claremont started this Wolverine "adopted father" plot and never followed through with anything?

Well, it's hardly the only plot that Claremont dropped. I don't know, though. That's my big problem with the concept of Wolverine as a father figure that so many writers seem enamored with - it really only works on a superficial level. The character is not designed for the kind of commitment that kind of relationship requires in order to be healthy and so, he just comes off as a deadbeat dad.
Kitty and Jubilee fared better than Amiko, but how much of that is because they were lucky enough to be among the X-men, where Logan spends much of his time? Logan as a mentor, I have no problem with. Logan as a pseudo father - no thank you.

[david r]

Other things that never got cleared up:
Jean in college, Jean's classmate who found out that they're really the X-Men, Jean's sister that lives in Albany. Did I forget anything?
Grotesk was the underground guy, right? I forgot who Ted Roberts was.

Jean Grey at Metro College was never wrapped up. I think because of changing writers (Roy Thomas, Gary Freidrich, Arnold Drake) and they didn't follow up on it. Who knows, maybe she's still enrolled.
Sara Grey-- I'm frankly surprised no writer has ever picked up something with Sara, and her 2 kids. That's a story waiting to happen...
Ted Roberts was the stud that Jean Grey dated at Metro College. I think Ted even learned they were all mutants. Jean dropped him for Scott. What girl wouldn't? :rolleyes:

I didn't like Sauron, but the Savage Land freaks were ok.

I feel those stories are the first ones with a "modern" feel for Uncanny X-Men. The book became more sophisticated during the Thomas/Adams run. I see now what a HUGE inspiration Neal Adams was on every X-artist that came later.

Out of all the new X-Men, I liked Nightcrawler the most because he tried to be friends with everyone, and he had a child-like admiration for some of the things they experience, like when they're in space.

I think I gravitated to Nightcrawler the most, too. Though Cyclops was still my favorite X-Man at that point. His enthusiasm for life is what draws me to Kurt.

edit: are you familiar with jojo's bizarre adventure?
it's simillar to xavier's psi-war.
think of a series where the astral plane forms show up as spirits that can fight other spirits in the real world.
only others with the same power can see them.
for a manga, it's as unique as they come.

I am not familiar with jojo's bizarre adventure. I feel the psychic plane has never been fully explored in the X-Men's world. More cool stories could come out it IMO.

[david r]

Focusing on my latest issue, Uncanny X-Men #181, Senator Robert Kelly returns with legislation called The Mutants Affairs Control Act. Bob, get on with it! If you're going to round up muties, take your foot off the brake and get the car started! This "Project: Wideawake" subplot has been simmering long enough. I wished they'd do something with it.

Wolverine answers fan letters in UXM #181, in his trademark slightly threatening tone. I swear I think he threatens one letter writer. :eek: And he refers to Claremont and Paul Smith as "the clowns producing the book..." :biggrin: :smile:

[Dr. Ghost]

I feel those stories are the first ones with a "modern" feel for Uncanny X-Men. The book became more sophisticated during the Thomas/Adams run. I see now what a HUGE inspiration Neal Adams was on every X-artist that came later.



I think I gravitated to Nightcrawler the most, too. Though Cyclops was still my favorite X-Man at that point. His enthusiasm for life is what draws me to Kurt.



I am not familiar with jojo's bizarre adventure. I feel the psychic plane has never been fully explored in the X-Men's world. More cool stories could come out it IMO.
I haven't really paid attention to artist/writer names so far.
All I know is that the ones I'm on now are written by Claremont.
Even though these issues aren't as flashy as today's comics (if you showed it to a little kid, they'd probably think the art sucks), I find most of the splash pages impressive.

I don't really like Cyclops as much as the others 'cause he's too distant from everyone.

I know this is off-topic, but I highly recommend JJBA. I think the first volume is around $8, and even though it's the third part (the most popular one) of 7 (this series is still going), the first two parts are summarized efficiently in a couple of pages of the first volume.. Ok, that's all.

When did you start reading X-Men?

[david r]

Creaky, you are probably right that Logan as a mentor is the right role for him. He doesn't have the time, or commitment, to being a father figure. I don't think Logan has the patience, or personality, to be a true father. Logan shouldn't have made that commitment to the dying woman in #181.

Dr. Ghost, When I was very young, I never paid any attention to creators. But now I like to give praise where it's deserved. One other thing I've noticed about Chris Claremont's lengthy run is, it doesn't feel like just the same guy writing it for all these years. Each time a new artist comes onboard, the book feels different. Each artist gives a whole new flavor and feel to Uncanny X-Men, and the way Claremont adjusts to each new artist changes his style. So the artists have made an impression on me. The book certainly was blessed with so many stellar talents.

[Dr. Ghost]

hey, we have the same birthday!

anyway, what's up with all the claremont hate nowadays?

[david r]

hey, we have the same birthday!

Do you have the other half of this amulet? :wink:
And even more coincidence, I lived in the Los Angeles area at one time. Torrance. We may have ran into each other once, and don't even know it.

anyway, what's up with all the claremont hate nowadays?

It's a fair question, but I'm not answering that one. There's too much to enjoy in life for me to get overly negative and grind myself down in endless debates about Morrison vs. Claremont, Sage vs. Dazzler, old fans vs. new fans, etc. Too many beautiful things to focus on, than becoming bitter rehashing old arguments. I have always wanted to read X-MEN from the start and I cannot tell you how fun this is. It can be difficult at times but really is an entertaining experience and on top of other entertainments and pleasures I have, I'm really enjoying life right now. I don't get bored.

[B. Kuwanger]

.

Wolverine answers fan letters in UXM #181, in his trademark slightly threatening tone. I swear I think he threatens one letter writer. :eek: And he refers to Claremont and Paul Smith as "the clowns producing the book..." :biggrin: :smile:

I did something kinda similar to your project, except I didn't log my thoughts and I started with Giant Sized/Classic X-Men #1. I'm only up to the Australian years now, but that's still my favorite Wolverine moment.

[david r]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.182.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #182

"Madness"

The cover tells you this is a Rogue issue, and it is. But I learn the depths of despair, and sheer terror, in the southern belle's soul. "Madness" indeed. I think I'd crack up too if I had another human being's memories locked away in my head; you'd never if those mem'ries are yours or theirs!

The X-Men have returned to Earth, from the Secret Wars. Rogue has been dispatched to the Mansion to locate Kitty Pryde & the New Mutants. She arrives and is dead tired from her flying all the way from Japan. In Charles Xavier's office, she hears an answering machine message from Colonel Michael Rossi. He says he's aboard the SHIELD Hellcarrier, and their suspicions were correct. But then it sounds like he's knocked out, and the line goes dead. Rogue zooms out of the room!! Aboard the Helicarrier, Michael Rossi has been captured by SHIELD agents, and is being interrogated. But one is using abusive methods against Rossi. He gets punched and kicked to the ground. One of these guys though is working for the Hellfire Club agent. (Man, these guys are everywhere!) He goes to his room where he has a hidden radio transmitter, or something. He calls for "Royal Midnight"--presumably the codename for one Sebastian Shaw. Shaw and Tessa , pick up the reception from an underground vault beneath the Hellfire Club. The SHIELD spy shows a photo of Michael Rossi, and Tessa informs of his identity. Shaw orders Rossi eliminated.

Rogue, somehow laying on a cloud!, sees the Helicarrier, and then swoops down and smashes right in. Rogue takes care of prying eyes, and smashes the vessel's internal security network. She then locates Michael Rossi, who is about to be shot by the evil SHIELD agent. After shooting the other agent, the spy turns his gun on Rogue, but the bullets have no effect on her. She punches him out, grabs seriously wounded Rossi, and leaps from the Helicarrier. Jets scramble after her, but they are ineffective in stopping her. Now things get strange. Rogue arrives at a cabin in Cape Cod, Massachusetts. We hear about how her parents own the cabin. Parents? What parents? The place is empty, and she deposits bleeding Rossi on a bed. Rogue refers to Michael as a "lover". Michael finally awakens, and has no idea who she is. Rogue stands confused! Don't you remember the mission together? How Rossi and Wolverine busted into a Lubyanka prison to save her? How they fought the KGB to save her? Rossi says he's never seen her before this night.

Rogue keeps calling him "Ace". Michael says only one person ever called him that--- Carol Danvers. Rogue suddenly realizes she's *remembering* memories that aren't hers. They are Carol Danvers. Her accent begins changing from southern to Boston accent, almost sentence by sentence. Rogue flees from the cabin, in confusion and terror. She falls to the sands of the beach beyond, and *sees* a memory of a child Carol playing football with friends. But it's NOT Rogue's memory. She sees in her mind's eye, kissing younger Michael Rossi; of fighting Rogue and losing her powers and memories. But they are all Carol's memories. How will she ever know who's is whose? Michael approaches, and Rogue tells him how she fought Ms. Marvel months ago, and ABSORBED her memories. Rossi is furious with her. Who could she? He slaps her, as she professes love for him. Rossi storms off, wishing he had the power to kill her. Rogue whimpers, "So do I, my love. So do I." Back aboard the SHIELD Helicarrier, Nick Fury hears of the damage Rogue caused. Nick orders an all-points alert for Rogue. Bring her in. If she resists, use DEADLY FORCE.

My thoughts: I was glad to see Rogue gain an entire issue to herself. And thankful that her new membership hasn't been forgotten with so much other stuff going on. I must admit, the whole "Carol Danvers/memories" thing had me confused in #182. I was perplexed when Rogue mentioned a mom & dad, and the family cabin. But then the horrors of her life are unleashed, and I truly realize how terrifying it would be to have another person's life and memories trapped in your mind. I can see now why she rushed to Charles Xavier's School for help. I think she truly needs it. It's bad enough she cannot touch another living soul, but now this as well. #182 explored Rogue's current mental state very well.

[wolvie616]

lol :biggrin: :biggrin:

[Nevets F]

It's a fair question, but I'm not answering that one. There's too much to enjoy in life for me to get overly negative and grind myself down in endless debates about Morrison vs. Claremont, Sage vs. Dazzler, old fans vs. new fans, etc. Too many beautiful things to focus on, than becoming bitter rehashing old arguments. I have always wanted to read X-MEN from the start and I cannot tell you how fun this is. It can be difficult at times but really is an entertaining experience and on top of other entertainments and pleasures I have, I'm really enjoying life right now. I don't get bored.

This is so nice and refreshing to hear...pretty inspiring too. :D

[worstblogever]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.182.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #182

"Madness"

The cover tells you this is a Rogue issue, and it is. But I learn the depths of despair, and sheer terror, in the southern belle's soul. "Madness" indeed. I think I'd crack up too if I had another human being's memories locked away in my head; you'd never if those mem'ries are yours or theirs!

The X-Men have returned to Earth, from the Secret Wars. Rogue has been dispatched to the Mansion to locate Kitty Pryde & the New Mutants. She arrives and is dead tired from her flying all the way from Japan. In Charles Xavier's office, she hears an answering machine message from Colonel Michael Rossi. He says he's aboard the SHIELD Hellcarrier, and their suspicions were correct. But then it sounds like he's knocked out, and the line goes dead. Rogue zooms out of the room!! Aboard the Helicarrier, Michael Rossi has been captured by SHIELD agents, and is being interrogated. But one is using abusive methods against Rossi. He gets punched and kicked to the ground. One of these guys though is working for the Hellfire Club agent. (Man, these guys are everywhere!) He goes to his room where he has a hidden radio transmitter, or something. He calls for "Royal Midnight"--presumably the codename for one Sebastian Shaw. Shaw and Tessa , pick up the reception from an underground vault beneath the Hellfire Club. The SHIELD spy shows a photo of Michael Rossi, and Tessa informs of his identity. Shaw orders Rossi eliminated.

Rogue, somehow laying on a cloud!, sees the Helicarrier, and then swoops down and smashes right in. Rogue takes care of prying eyes, and smashes the vessel's internal security network. She then locates Michael Rossi, who is about to be shot by the evil SHIELD agent. After shooting the other agent, the spy turns his gun on Rogue, but the bullets have no effect on her. She punches him out, grabs seriously wounded Rossi, and leaps from the Helicarrier. Jets scramble after her, but they are ineffective in stopping her. Now things get strange. Rogue arrives at a cabin in Cape Cod, Massachusetts. We hear about how her parents own the cabin. Parents? What parents? The place is empty, and she deposits bleeding Rossi on a bed. Rogue refers to Michael as a "lover". Michael finally awakens, and has no idea who she is. Rogue stands confused! Don't you remember the mission together? How Rossi and Wolverine busted into a Lubyanka prison to save her? How they fought the KGB to save her? Rossi says he's never seen her before this night.

Rogue keeps calling him "Ace". Michael says only one person ever called him that--- Carol Danvers. Rogue suddenly realizes she's *remembering* memories that aren't hers. They are Carol Danvers. Her accent begins changing from southern to Boston accent, almost sentence by sentence. Rogue flees from the cabin, in confusion and terror. She falls to the sands of the beach beyond, and *sees* a memory of a child Carol playing football with friends. But it's NOT Rogue's memory. She sees in her mind's eye, kissing younger Michael Rossi; of fighting Rogue and losing her powers and memories. But they are all Carol's memories. How will she ever know who's is whose? Michael approaches, and Rogue tells him how she fought Ms. Marvel months ago, and ABSORBED her memories. Rossi is furious with her. Who could she? He slaps her, as she professes love for him. Rossi storms off, wishing he had the power to kill her. Rogue whimpers, "So do I, my love. So do I." Back aboard the SHIELD Helicarrier, Nick Fury hears of the damage Rogue caused. Nick orders an all-points alert for Rogue. Bring her in. If she resists, use DEADLY FORCE.

My thoughts: I was glad to see Rogue gain an entire issue to herself. And thankful that her new membership hasn't been forgotten with so much other stuff going on. I must admit, the whole "Carol Danvers/memories" thing had me confused in #182. I was perplexed when Rogue mentioned a mom & dad, and the family cabin. But then the horrors of her life are unleashed, and I truly realize how terrifying it would be to have another person's life and memories trapped in your mind. I can see now why she rushed to Charles Xavier's School for help. I think she truly needs it. It's bad enough she cannot touch another living soul, but now this as well. #182 explored Rogue's current mental state very well.

Great Rogue-centric issue that shows that the Carol/Rogue ongoing plotline was NOT going away. Rogue's powers are dangerous to her own mind, and this reminds us. The irony of it is... if Rogue didn't have Ms. Marvel's mind take over her own and bust into the Helicarrier for Rossi, he'd be dead. And he's hardly grateful, after learning why Rogue did it. While he'd rather see her dead, and Ms. Marvel/Rogue wishes he could make it so... Rossi just doesn't have the power to kill her.

Good issue. Although, when you think about it, I wonder if this issue would teach a reader more about Rogue, or about Ms. Marvel? Chicken or the egg, question, really.

[david r]

Some good points you made, WBE. I have a question: exactly what powers are homegrown for Rogue? And what powers are derived from Ms. Marvel?

Rogue has stated she absorbed Carol Danvers' powers & memories. Did this make her invincible? She wasn't invincible BEFORE? And (skipping ahead), when Carol regains her powers, WHY doesn't Rogue seem to lose them?:confused:

[DDM]

Some good points you made, WBE. I have a question: exactly what powers are homegrown for Rogue? And what powers are derived from Ms. Marvel?

Rogue has stated she absorbed Carol Danvers' powers & memories. Did this make her invincible? She wasn't invincible BEFORE? And (skipping ahead), when Carol regains her powers, WHY doesn't Rogue seem to lose them?:confused:

Rogue possesses most of Ms. Marvel's powers:


flight
superhuman strength to lift (press) 50 tons
invulnerability (including certain toxins due to Carol's unique Kree-human hybrid nature)


Rogue lacked Ms. Marvel's ability to change from normal clothes to costume & Ms. Marvel's 7th Sense precognitive powers (Rogue never had Carol's precognitive visions as Ms. Marvel possessed, but it only appeared when she fought the Magus in Uncanny X-Men #192). Rogue's superhuman strength was also greater than Ms. Marvel's own superhuman strength due to an unknown factor.

[david r]

Rogue possesses most of Ms. Marvel's powers:


flight
superhuman strength to lift (press) 50 tons
invulnerability (including certain toxins due to Carol's unique Kree-human hybrid nature)


So you're saying Rogue possessed these power BEFORE absorbing Ms. Marvel's abilities?

[DDM]

So you're saying Rogue possessed these power BEFORE absorbing Ms. Marvel's abilities?

No, before, Rogue possessed no other superhuman powers other than her mutant absorption powers. Rogue gained all of these powers from Ms. Marvel.

[Dr. Ghost]

Do you have the other half of this amulet? :wink:
And even more coincidence, I lived in the Los Angeles area at one time. Torrance. We may have ran into each other once, and don't even know it.



It's a fair question, but I'm not answering that one. There's too much to enjoy in life for me to get overly negative and grind myself down in endless debates about Morrison vs. Claremont, Sage vs. Dazzler, old fans vs. new fans, etc. Too many beautiful things to focus on, than becoming bitter rehashing old arguments. I have always wanted to read X-MEN from the start and I cannot tell you how fun this is. It can be difficult at times but really is an entertaining experience and on top of other entertainments and pleasures I have, I'm really enjoying life right now. I don't get bored.
Actually, I was born in LA, but my family moved out, over the hills to the San Fernando Valley when I was 2. I've been here since then; I'm 22.
I've actually never been to Torrance; I think the closest I've gotten to there is Long Beach.
I just write LA 'cause it gives people a well known reference point.


Ok.

[Matt K]

Did you like the Neal Adams issues, #56-64? Where they introduced Sauron and the Savage Land Mutates? I felt that was when it picked up considerably.

I was looking at my old comics and apparently the comic that got me into collecting comics was Marvel Reprint #2 which reprinted this. The odd thing being I picked it off the recent comic shelf in 1994 and the comic was actually printed in 1984. This was such a great arc and it still hold up (the other thing was I was watching X-Men:TAS which was having it's Savage Land arc at the time I pick this up).

[CJ Lentze]

One quick thing about the M'Kraan Crystal, Dr. Ghost, the cosmic 'blink' would have happened if the X-Men and D'Ken hadn't been on 'the planet with no name', but as DDM said, there wouldn't have been a threat if D'Ken wasn't there to unleash the Neutron Galaxy.Some good points you made, WBE. I have a question: exactly what powers are homegrown for Rogue? And what powers are derived from Ms. Marvel?

Rogue has stated she absorbed Carol Danvers' powers & memories. Did this make her invincible? She wasn't invincible BEFORE? And (skipping ahead), when Carol regains her powers, WHY doesn't Rogue seem to lose them?:confused:I haven't followed Ms. Danvers throughout her entire superhero career, but I was under the impression that she never truly regains her Ms. Marvel powers as they were before the Rogue incident. Aren't the powers she possesses now (flight, strength, invuln.) a residue/echo of the ones she had as Binary? Hence the photon blasts instead of the 7th sense? Please correct me if I'm making a humongous mistake here, I know I can count on you guys.

On the reverse side of things, my guess is that, as Rogue's absorption of the Ms. Marvel powers was meant to be permanent by nature, they couldn't return to Danvers. They haven't explained how Rogue's absorption power works precisely, but under normal circumstances, there must be some time frame (the one sec/one min thing) after which the stolen powers 'flow' back into her victim; in Ms. Marvel's case, the powers were just 'ripped out of her', and couldn't return to her even after Rogue lost them.



Also: great, great, GREAT story, one of my favourites. At the end of the story, who says 'So do I' after Rossi says 'I wish I had the power to kill you'? Rogue or Carol? The 'I' (instead of 'Ah') would imply that it's Carol, but Rogue must share her sentiments.

To see Rogue fly at the beginning was a very nice small bit as well. Rogue is still relatively new to flying, having only had that ability for months, maybe a year. It was cool to see that Rogue could actually tire from flying; it uses up energy. It's probably easier for Storm, because she glides on the wind (but it still takes Storm effort to generate that wind). Calling the airplane a 'big metal cigar' and expressing her pity toward the passengers was fun.


Something Dr. Ghost said earlier about Nightcrawler, his enthusiasm at all the extraordinary things the X-Men encounter, (like how thrilled he is when he's in a Space Shuttle, watches a sunrise in space, or is fascinated by the shape-shifting abilities of Imp-Guard Hobgoblin and Snowbird ['how does she DO that?!']), seems like Nightcrawler very much echoed the reader's amazement in the beginning, but now he is getting a little bit darker after Dark Phoenix and things like the Brotherhood's attack on Colossus happening. And he hasn't gone through his darkest days yet...

[DDM]

Carol Danvers still does not possess her original Ms. Marvel powers to this day; Rogue still has them deeply buried in her mind & body. Carol still possesses her Binary powers, although they are cut in half as of The Avengers #4 (1997 series) to date.

Ms Marvel original powers:


flight
superhuman strength
agility
superhuman reflexes
invulnerability
breathe in the vacuum of space without any harm
a precognitive 7th Sense
transform from normal clothes to costume by an unknown means


Binary powers:


flight at light speed in the void of space with no harm to her
superhuman strength to lift (press) 100 tons or more
invulnerability
release star bolts from her hands
Could perceive the world on different energy wavelengths.
transform from normal clothes to costume by an unknown means
While in her Binary form, Carol does not need to eat or breathe.
If Carol released a large amount of energy in her stellar form, she would need to rest for an undisclosed set of time before she could become Binary again.


Warbird/Ms. Marvel powers (current):


flight slightly above the speed of sound
superhuman strength to lift (press) 50 tons; however, she can absorb energy from other sources to increase her strength to her previous Binary state temporarily.
invulnerability
release energy from her hands as starbolts or stellar energy
transform from street clothes to costume by an unknown means

[heretic]

My thoughts: I was glad to see Rogue gain an entire issue to herself. And thankful that her new membership hasn't been forgotten with so much other stuff going on. I must admit, the whole "Carol Danvers/memories" thing had me confused in #182. I was perplexed when Rogue mentioned a mom & dad, and the family cabin. But then the horrors of her life are unleashed, and I truly realize how terrifying it would be to have another person's life and memories trapped in your mind. I can see now why she rushed to Charles Xavier's School for help. I think she truly needs it. It's bad enough she cannot touch another living soul, but now this as well. #182 explored Rogue's current mental state very well.This is an example of Claremont at his best doing what can only be described as extremely subtle horror. Note that what are readily dismissed as minor slipups with writing Rogue's accent and snippets of knowledge said Swamp Rat was unlikely to have had started far earlier. One puts it to poor editing until we see her at the Danvers' beach-house and start paging back.

And looking at it from either Rossi's or Rogue's point of view, the whole "Why is my hair so short? It should be blond... What's happened to my face? What's happenin' t' me?"
"Rogue, Listen to me! You are not Carol Danvers, Stop pretending that you are!"
"IT'S NOT PRETEND!!!!"
bit is flat out terrifying.

And the end is downright heartbreaking.

HTG

[CJ Lentze]

The slip-ups and snippets of knowledge went right past me. Now I need to re-read to see what you meant! (which is no punishment)



And thanks, D, you're a champ. So current Ms. Marvel = Binary lite wearing a Ms. Marvel costume. :smile:

[Hi-Fi]

That is one of the best and defining Rogue issues ever. I felt extremely bad for her. We can see how messed up she is in this issue and in the next one, where she hurts herself willingly in the Danger Room.

[david r]

Matt K, Yes, I liked that great Savage Land arc. It was the first time that place came to life. I've never seen the X-Men:TAS episode in the Savage Land.

Dr. Ghost, If I may ask...why didn't you care for Sauron?

DDM, Schuimend: OK, so now it makes more sense over Rogue. So...she gained Ms. Marvel's powers and can never lose them now. That detailed list helps a lot.

Good observation about *who* says "So do I, my love." That was pretty emotionally overwhelming. Rogue is what, 18 years old? And she has to suffer too much for a young age. And about Nightcrawler, it does seem like he's darkening. Maybe he is simply maturing. Kurt has seen and experienced a lot, and it's not all been good. It would trouble anyone. I think he's one of the most inspiring characters EVER because of how he looks, and treated by his fellow beings, that it HASN'T turned him into a bitter, cold individual. An inspiration for all of us, I think.

Heretic, I never thought of Rogue's life as a horror. But #182 is terrifying. It's bad enough she cannot touch another living soul with her flesh....but now her mind is jumbled up with another's memories. And I think that would be a living nightmare. Good call. Rogue was further detailed here, but it's scary what we find.

[Dr. Ghost]

I don't know.
Dinosaurs are cool, and so is Ka-Zar and the Savage Land, but I just didn't care for Sauron. :confused: At least now he's in a place where he can keep his energy hunger in check.

[david r]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.183.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #183

"He'll Never Make Me Cry"

Peter and Kitty Pryde sitting together, on a cliff overlooking the lake at sunset.
Kitty thinks: "He's so tense. I've never seen Peter so upset. He's hardly said a word to me since the X-Men returned home. Whatever's troubling him must be awful."
Kitty: Gee, you and the X-Men got kidnapped to the far side of the universe--and you didn't take me along. I'm hurt--anything interesting happen out there?"
Peter: I met someone else. We fell in love."
Kitty: .................Oh.

Peter: "I wish I knew what to say, Kitty."
Kitty thinks: "Tell me it's a joke. Tell me anything but the truth. Trouble is, you're too honorable to lie. Thats one of the things I love about you."
Kitty: "Anyone...Anyone I know?"
Peter: No. She was a native of the planet the Beyonder created. A healer. She saved my life."
Kitty thinks: "So did I." --Was she pretty?
Peter: As beautiful as the dawn...as gentle as a spring rain."
Kitty thinks: "Poetry. From a man who said he never had the words...to express what was in his heart and soul. I guess he found the words...for her. Never for me. Shut up, Peter, please! Don't say anymore. It hurts too much! "

Thus, we witness the breaking of a girl's heart. This girl's heart. The heart of Kitty Pryde. Such a little thing, really. But sometimes the littlest things are the hardest things to bear. Peter says he cares for Kitty still, deeply. But the love he felt, the commitment--is no longer there. They agree they can still work as members of the X-Men. Kitty walks away across the meadow, alone. As she approaches the Mansion, she sees Storm watching from a window. She enters, and makes her way to the bedroom she shares with Illyana Rasputin. Kitty says everything is peachy-keen, as Lockheed "kwoos" for Kitty's attention. Kitty replies, "No, really, Lockheed, I'm fine. I...I..." and Kitty begins sobbing into her pillow. Illyana comes to comfort her and they both hug.

In a rather callous manner, Storm wishes Colossus had DIED on the Secret Wars world, instead of returning and hurting her Kitten so. Wolverine has plans to deal with Piotr. Logan confronts Rasputin n the darkened Mansion, and tells him they're going into town. Nightcrawler bamfs down into the Rolls-Royce. Logan obviously didn't want Kurt to join them. As they depart, Storm comes into Kitty's bedroom, to find her packing. Kitty has decided to go visit her father. She needs a change of scenery.
Storm: For how long?
Kitty: Nothing's definite yet. I'll play things by ear.
Storm: Is this...goodbye?
Kitty: Part of me wants it to be. I can't stop crying, Ororo--but I'll die before I let Peter see my tears. He doesn't deserve them. And I don't care how unfair that sounds. When I'm out of tears, then maybe I'll be back.

Colossus, Nightcrawler and Wolverine spend the evening in a Manhattan dive named Monahan's. Logan is ready to take a pound of flesh out of Peter for how he's treated Kitty. They all sit at a table, Logan smoking and all of them drinking. The words get heated between Logan & Rasputin. Kitty practically gave away her life to Colossus. You don't treat her this way, after that. Logan begins to take Peter outside, but Peter doesn't wish to go and pulls away. He then slams into Juggernaut!! Wrong place...wrong time. Juggernaut doesn't like getting shoved around,especially when he's about to score with this foxy dark-haired lady here. Juggernaut and Colossus start punchin' an' goin' rounds (see cover.) Wolvie & 'crawler stand aside, as the whole bar and even the building come crashing during the brawl. In the end, Cain Marko emerges victorious from the rubble. The kid gave a good fight, Cain says, and walks away. Colossus rises and is enflamed his "friends" didn't help him. X-Men are supposed to help each other through thick and thin? Wolverine says, yeah, that's true. Just like you did to Kitty? You never even said "Thank you", Peter. Food for thought. On the last page, we learn who that "Dark-haired babe" was....it was Selene! She has drank the life of one of the bar guys. After 2000 years of exile, Selene is back to hunt!

My thoughts: As you can maybe tell, I liked this issue. A lot of personal moments, and soul-searching. A tear shed here or there, maybe even. Yes, there is a brawl, but even the action serves to drive home the broken valentine that Kitty Pryde and Peter Rasputin had. Whether you felt their relationship was wrong from the start, these are still people and romantic feelings happen even if you don't expect or want them. Rasputin was cold in his ending their romance, but to deny those feelings, would have been wrong. This issue has a LOT of stuff I could discuss hours about. Just how far along WERE Kitty and Peter? It's mentioned here they'd discussed marriage. But all we readers have really seen was their attic make-out scene in UXM #174. Was there more lovey-dovey things we're supposed to imply happened between them? EIC Jim Shooter ended the relationship, as he felt it was wrong with Kitty being underaged. The limited series Secret Wars was used to end it. I'm sure Chris Claremont didn't agree, but he sure ended their romance with an emotional wallop and tender scenes that are just as memorable as any climactic epic issue. A classic.

[Imraith Nimphais]

I have to agree with you David...a classic. This was another issue that touched me on a somewhat personal level...a case of art imitating life imitating art...(which Claremont does so freakin' well). Not to go into any details...I too found myself in a sitch quite similar to Kitty's and her line " I'll always wanted what was best for you...other'n me" and " I'll be as strong and tough and heartless" and " I'll die before I let Peter see my tears" truly resonated with me...What I noticed (starting with the aftermath of Wolverine's marriage in japan) a common theme running throught the issues was/is heartbreak/misery...no one is left unscathed (with the exception of Nightcrawler)...typically, a superhero shows his/her bravery and strenght by saving the world, overcoming impossible odds...but true bravery and strength of character are exemplified by how one deals with the trials of just living day by day...the heartbreaks, the choices to be made, the death of loved ones, loss...most of the times it is only when we encounter adversity that we truly see/understand the mettle of which we are made...I truly applaud CC for showing us this other, personal side to the X-men. Showing us their mettle. Thier humanity...and to top it all off...Selene (one of my favourite villains since day one) is here to stay.

[worstblogever]

I always liked how in #183, in spite of how smooth the breakup went, that Colossus didn't get off scott free. Part of it, I think, was his own conscience. Logan didn't need to do anything but point out to him that he was in the wrong, and then the discomfort settled in, and Piotr didn't know what to do with himself.

Juggernaut, meanwhile, pummels him, and that ends up being somehow cathartic. It was an exterior stimulus to give him the punishment he felt he deserved inside. Life can be like that.

But I have to wonder... what wouldn've happened if Selene tried to drain the life force of the unstoppable Juggernaut? Would she absorb some of the powers of Cyttorak? Hmm...

[Hi-Fi]

That IS a classic issue and a classic fight. I just LOVE how Wolverine handles things. I felt really bad for Kitty. Colossus forgot he was dealing with a 14 years old girl when he broke her heart.

David, what did you think of Rogue's scene in the Danger Room? One of my favorite Rogue moments ever. She was really trying to hurt herlsef there and I love how she replies to Storm that she IS indeed a madwoman.

[Imraith Nimphais]

But I have to wonder... what wouldn've happened if Selene tried to drain the life force of the unstoppable Juggernaut? Would she absorb some of the powers of Cyttorak? Hmm...

I thought the very same thing. It's probably a good thing Juggie got distracted else it would/might have turned out not good for my Black Queen.

[Imraith Nimphais]

Juggernaut, meanwhile, pummels him, and that ends up being somehow cathartic. It was an exterior stimulus to give him the punishment he felt he deserved inside. Life can be like that.

as you stated the affore-mentioned WBE, (gosh...I love this thread...decades after...and as I'm re-reading these issues, now...I am still able to see everything from new angles and POV's...) I could not help but notice a similarity between Peter's and Rogue's situations. On the one hand Peter's beating is purely coincidental...wrong place right time...on the other, Rogue's punishment is pre-meditated and self-inflicted...but the reasoning why? is the same for both...they both feel as though they somehow are deserving of this...wow. As a teenager (when I first read this, especially Rogue's bit) it really opened my eyes to the human condition. double wow.

[DDM]

I thought the very same thing. It's probably a good thing Juggie got distracted else it would/might have turned out not good for my Black Queen.

Selene more than likely sensed Cain's power, although she probably did not sense the Crimson Gem of Cyyrotek (sp?) itself within him. Given his weakness against telepathy, he would have died against Selene's own psychic assault given she psionically drains the life-force from her victims. Uncanny X-Men #183-184 is before Selene applies to become a member of the Inner Circle of the Hellfire Club.

With Cain's death, I can see Selene gaining the powers of the Juggernaut. With all of her other powers, she would be nearly unstoppable.

[Indigo Al]

Selene more than likely sensed Cain's power, although she probably did not sense the Crimson Gem of Cyyrotek (sp?) itself within him.

Which seems odd, given what an accomplished sorceress she is

[DDM]

Which seems odd, given what an accomplished sorceress she is

Selene also senses Rachel's cosmic powers of Phoenix in the next issue; however, she does not know the extent of her abilities. Selene is surprised when Rachel attacks her as Phoenix in Uncanny X-Men #207. Therefore, Selene knows Rachel possessed potential, but did not know the extent of Rachel's abilities. Selene just knows Rachel's powers far exceed her own.

[david r]

I have to agree with you David...a classic. This was another issue that touched me on a somewhat personal level...a case of art imitating life imitating art...(which Claremont does so freakin' well). Not to go into any details...I too found myself in a sitch quite similar to Kitty's and her line " I'll always wanted what was best for you...other'n me" and " I'll be as strong and tough and heartless" and " I'll die before I let Peter see my tears" truly resonated with me...What I noticed (starting with the aftermath of Wolverine's marriage in japan) a common theme running throught the issues was/is heartbreak/misery...no one is left unscathed (with the exception of Nightcrawler)...typically, a superhero shows his/her bravery and strenght by saving the world, overcoming impossible odds...but true bravery and strength of character are exemplified by how one deals with the trials of just living day by day...the heartbreaks, the choices to be made, the death of loved ones, loss...most of the times it is only when we encounter adversity that we truly see/understand the mettle of which we are made...I truly applaud CC for showing us this other, personal side to the X-men. Showing us their mettle. Thier humanity...and to top it all off...Selene (one of my favourite villains since day one) is here to stay.

What a fantastic post. I think everyone has "been there" at one point. A relationship that shatters your heart, and you wonder if you'll recover. If you even WANT to recover. In a book about teens & young people, it's about time something like this was addressed. As for your other point, I hadn't noticed a new theme in the book since Wolverine's Japan journey, but you're right. All the X-Men are suffering in some way, even Scott went thru a bad spell with Madelyne Pryor. It's issues like this that bring these characters to life.

And great connecting the similiar situations with Rogue and Colossus. Both get in fights, but are really beating themselves up. Guilt sucks. Doesn't Charles Xavier notice how UNHAPPY all his X-Men are??

WBE, So you think Peter maybe wanted Wolverine to beat him up? Deep down, Peter knows how horribly he's hurt Kitty? You can't tell from #183. It was "Tough Love" on Wolverine's part.

Hi-Fi, No matter how bad Kitty feels.... Rogue is suffering 10 times worse! "Ah AM a madwoman!" She screams at Storm. It was a painful scene, as I think Rogue wants to die. Truly end it. I think #182 forced Rogue to face what she's done...what her life has become. And she is VERY close to cracking up. Worse, it seems Rogue no longer thinks Xavier or the X-Men can help her. I feel so bad for her, as so much of this is not her own fault.

I love seeing classic X-Men villains, so the Juggernaut was great fun to see again!

[Nevets F]

These issues bring back such great memories. I got into comics in the 90's, and one of the books I was picking up was X-Men Classic. It was telling these stories at the time...so while I was getting into the books and the characters, I was also reading these great past stories. Now, granted I ended up getting all the X-Men back issues over time, these issues still have great memories for me. This wasn't my favorite time...that came a little later, but still so great.

[worstblogever]

WBE, So you think Peter maybe wanted Wolverine to beat him up? Deep down, Peter knows how horribly he's hurt Kitty? You can't tell from #183. It was "Tough Love" on Wolverine's part.


My personal feeling is he is that conflicted, yeah. He wants to be punished for two-timing young Kitty, but at the same time, he still wants his friends to be there for him.

Kitty meanwhile... well... your heart will go on, Katya. And then back to Piotr again.

And then into a giant bullet in space.

[Imraith Nimphais]

LOL...WBE, if you weren't thousands of miles away I could fall in love with you...so I'll just have to settle with your very on-point wittisms...LOL

[Valjean999]

Are you going to be covering the "Kitty Pryde and Wolverine" six issued mini? In continiuity, I believe it occurs during the next couple of issues, which is why these two will be missing from the pages of the X-Men until 192 or so

[david r]

These issues bring back such great memories. I got into comics in the 90's, and one of the books I was picking up was X-Men Classic. It was telling these stories at the time...so while I was getting into the books and the characters, I was also reading these great past stories. Now, granted I ended up getting all the X-Men back issues over time, these issues still have great memories for me. This wasn't my favorite time...that came a little later, but still so great.

Steven, so many people have different "favorite eras" on X-MEN. It's always fascinating to hear what brought them into this unique world, and the issues/characters that made them fall in love with the X-Men.

Are you going to be covering the "Kitty Pryde and Wolverine" six issued mini? In continiuity, I believe it occurs during the next couple of issues, which is why these two will be missing from the pages of the X-Men until 192 or so

Oh yes, indeed. Thanks for pointing out "when" that limited series takes place, as I've been wondering where to include it.

I forgot to mention. UXM #183 shows Kitty Pryde with a whole new haircut. Gone is the long, slightly curly look so popular in the 1970s. Now Kitty has a more shorter style, but still full. Which seems to have been big in the "Big Hair" era of the mid-1980s.

[david r]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.184.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #184

"The Past...of Future Days"

1st appearance: Forge, Naze

And there he is! Charles on the cover in action mode! While the X-Men logo BURNS! Plus, this issue debuts Forge, a man who can design and build pretty much anything. He's quite the inventor.

Dallas, Texas. Eagle Plaza. Dr. Valerie Cooper, special assistant to the President's National Security Advisor, and Raven Darkholme, otherwise known as MYSTIQUE, Defense Advanced Research Planning Agency, have arrived to meet an associate of Raven's. The 2 enter his penthouse, which is an awesome hologram of a wide mountain range, with the odd sight of several stairs and furniture hovering in mid-air. Both are staggered by the sight. They hear a heated conversation, and soon an older man, Native American indian man runs past them. He wants Forge to help, because the proper order of things is being overturned. Forge doesn't care. The older man is Naze. And he storms out of the penthouse. In walks Forge! He greets his guests. He is an Indian, with a small, Clark Gable-like moustache. Wearing shorts, he has a metallic enhanced leg, it appears.

Forge is a mutant, and has a knack for inventing things. Since Tony Stark stopped inventing, Forge has taken that role for the U.S. government. He takes them to his mammoth laboratory, and shows them a gun he has built to neutralize the power of any super-being, mutant or otherwise. He also has built a scanner, which can detect mutants in a crowd. Meanwhile, back in Manhattan, a certain red-haired female is walking the streets alone. The day before she had attempted to contact Charles Xavier at his School, but ran away in fear (in New Mutants #18.) As Rachel walks the lonely, fog-shrouded streets, she is hunted by the raven-haired sorceress Selene. Selene has never seen such power in a mortal, and desires Rachel. Selene attempts to grab Rachel but the mutant runs. She flees into a New York nightclub named Club D, but is soon overwhelmed by all the stray mental thoughts. The bodyguard is hustling her out the door, when the club's owner, Nick Damiano, (dressed like he walked out of a Prince and the Revolution music video!) takes an interest in Rachel, and decides to aid the confused girl. He takes her to his lush apartment, and soon Rachel is enjoying a wonderful bubble bath!

But Rachel senses Nick's mental thoughts end. She leaves the bubble bath, and finds Nick...DEAD! His corpse already a shell, the life sucked out of him. Selene is the responsible party, and once again uses her magic abilities to capture Rachel. Selene's eons of experience, and multiple powers, overwhelm our red-haired heroine. Rachel fights,but soon the apartment is awash in flame, as gas and electrical lines rupture! Selene is possessing Rachel, as the X-Men smash in to save the day! Charles Xavier hovers in, wearing his new yellow-and-black hero outfit. Colossus, Rogue and Nightcrawler leap into the flaming inferno and attack Selene. All fail against her....all except Prof X! Whose mental bolts are more than Selen can stand and she leaps into the flames and vanishes into the streets. Colossus grabs Rachel's body and the X-Men escape the burning building. (Poor Nick Damiano; you try to help a mutant, and soon you're dead & your apartment is destroyed!) Moments later, blocks away under a streetlight, the X-Men stand over this unknown red-haired stranger. Xavier senses she's a mutant, but does not know her. Though her face is....familiar. Rachel is shocked by Storm's punk outfit, and Charles can walk! How can this be? There must be a mistake. She must have "time-jumped" into the wrong past!! This isn't her world at all, but an alternate world. Rachel collapses to the ground, with Charles holding her.

My thoughts: Forge was quite an interesting fellow. His mutant power to "invent" seems rather clever. It could be used in many different ways; too bad he's working for the gov't. I don't much like his Daisy Duke shorts. Men simply should NOT wear shorts like that. I am also intrigued with this whole "Raven Darkholme" identity for Mystique. But the meat of the issue was Rachel Summers and her encounter with the vampire, Selene. Selene hasn't lost any of her twisted side from New Mutants. She said she wanted an heir...yet she seems to try to kill Rachel. The X-Men, minus Wolverine & Kitty Pryde, save the day. Well, actually superhero Professor X wins, as he now has joined the team. However, he is usurping Storm's role as leader, and the ebony Goddess is NOT so happy over that development. You'd think Charles would know better. I'm not sure if I like Xavier actively joining the X-Men on missions. But overall, a great issue. Rachel certainly is a "mystery locked in a riddle, inside an enigma."

[limerick]

no wonder rachel collapsed when she saw prof. x

bright yellow outfit with black x didn't work in the eighties and it works less now!!

[DDM]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.184.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #184

"The Past...of Future Days"

1st appearance: Forge, Naze

And there he is! Charles on the cover in action mode! While the X-Men logo BURNS! Plus, this issue debuts Forge, a man who can design and build pretty much anything. He's quite the inventor.

Dallas, Texas. Eagle Plaza. Dr. Valerie Cooper, special assistant to the President's National Security Advisor, and Raven Darkholme, otherwise known as MYSTIQUE, Defense Advanced Research Planning Agency, have arrived to meet an associate of Raven's. The 2 enter his penthouse, which is an awesome hologram of a wide mountain range, with the odd sight of several stairs and furniture hovering in mid-air. Both are staggered by the sight. They hear a heated conversation, and soon an older man, Native American indian man runs past them. He wants Forge to help, because the proper order of things is being overturned. Forge doesn't care. The older man is Naze. And he storms out of the penthouse. In walks Forge! He greets his guests. He is an Indian, with a small, Clark Gable-like moustache. Wearing shorts, he has a metallic enhanced leg, it appears.

Forge is a mutant, and has a knack for inventing things. Since Tony Stark stopped inventing, Forge has taken that role for the U.S. government. He takes them to his mammoth laboratory, and shows them a gun he has built to neutralize the power of any super-being, mutant or otherwise. He also has built a scanner, which can detect mutants in a crowd. Meanwhile, back in Manhattan, a certain red-haired female is walking the streets alone. The day before she had attempted to contact Charles Xavier at his School, but ran away in fear (in New Mutants #18.) As Rachel walks the lonely, fog-shrouded streets, she is hunted by the raven-haired sorceress Selene. Selene has never seen such power in a mortal, and desires Rachel. Selene attempts to grab Rachel but the mutant runs. She flees into a New York nightclub named Club D, but is soon overwhelmed by all the stray mental thoughts. The bodyguard is hustling her out the door, when the club's owner, Nick Damiano, (dressed like he walked out of a Prince and the Revolution music video!) takes an interest in Rachel, and decides to aid the confused girl. He takes her to his lush apartment, and soon Rachel is enjoying a wonderful bubble bath!

But Rachel senses Nick's mental thoughts end. She leaves the bubble bath, and finds Nick...DEAD! His corpse already a shell, the life sucked out of him. Selene is the responsible party, and once again uses her magic abilities to capture Rachel. Selene's eons of experience, and multiple powers, overwhelm our red-haired heroine. Rachel fights,but soon the apartment is awash in flame, as gas and electrical lines rupture! Selene is possessing Rachel, as the X-Men smash in to save the day! Charles Xavier hovers in, wearing his new yellow-and-black hero outfit. Colossus, Rogue and Nightcrawler leap into the flaming inferno and attack Selene. All fail against her....all except Prof X! Whose mental bolts are more than Selen can stand and she leaps into the flames and vanishes into the streets. Colossus grabs Rachel's body and the X-Men escape the burning building. (Poor Nick Damiano; you try to help a mutant, and soon you're dead & your apartment is destroyed!) Moments later, blocks away under a streetlight, the X-Men stand over this unknown red-haired stranger. Xavier senses she's a mutant, but does not know her. Though her face is....familiar. Rachel is shocked by Storm's punk outfit, and Charles can walk! How can this be? There must be a mistake. She must have "time-jumped" into the wrong past!! This isn't her world at all, but an alternate world. Rachel collapses to the ground, with Charles holding her.

My thoughts: Forge was quite an interesting fellow. His mutant power to "invent" seems rather clever. It could be used in many different ways; too bad he's working for the gov't. I don't much like his Daisy Duke shorts. Men simply should NOT wear shorts like that. I am also intrigued with this whole "Raven Darkholme" identity for Mystique. But the meat of the issue was Rachel Summers and her encounter with the vampire, Selene. Selene hasn't lost any of her twisted side from New Mutants. She said she wanted an heir...yet she seems to try to kill Rachel. The X-Men, minus Wolverine & Kitty Pryde, save the day. Well, actually superhero Professor X wins, as he now has joined the team. However, he is usurping Storm's role as leader, and the ebony Goddess is NOT so happy over that development. You'd think Charles would know better. I'm not sure if I like Xavier actively joining the X-Men on missions. But overall, a great issue. Rachel certainly is a "mystery locked in a riddle, inside an enigma."

Uncanny X-Men #184 remains a favorite issue; this is also the story where Rachel's vendetta for Selene begins.

Although Selene is a powerful black sorceress, Selene used her mutant powers against Rachel in Nick's apartment & throughout Manhattan. Selene projects the stolen life-force into inanimate objects making them either come to life or disintegrate into dust. Selene's powers give her a certain amount of psychic prowess as she easily deflects Rachel's telepathic force bolts.

When Selene talks about an "heir," she means to make Rachel into a psychic vampire as herself, but, in the process, Rachel loses her free will & becomes Selene's slave.

You will also note, Selene is immune to Rogue's mutant absorption power; instead of absorbing Selene's powers, Selene absorbs Rogue's life-force. Charles Xavier stopped Selene from murdering Rogue. Rogue got a small chance to see what her mutant absorption power does to people with Selene.

[Dagger]

My personal feeling is he is that conflicted, yeah. He wants to be punished for two-timing young Kitty, but at the same time, he still wants his friends to be there for him.

Kitty meanwhile... well... your heart will go on, Katya. And then back to Piotr again.

And then into a giant bullet in space.
That could be taken as so dirty if you think about it.

[Dagger]

Steven, so many people have different "favorite eras" on X-MEN. It's always fascinating to hear what brought them into this unique world, and the issues/characters that made them fall in love with the X-Men.



Oh yes, indeed. Thanks for pointing out "when" that limited series takes place, as I've been wondering where to include it.

I forgot to mention. UXM #183 shows Kitty Pryde with a whole new haircut. Gone is the long, slightly curly look so popular in the 1970s. Now Kitty has a more shorter style, but still full. Which seems to have been big in the "Big Hair" era of the mid-1980s.
:confused: :confused: :confused: Kitty was introduced in the 80's.

[worstblogever]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.184.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #184

"The Past...of Future Days"

1st appearance: Forge, Naze

And there he is! Charles on the cover in action mode! While the X-Men logo BURNS! Plus, this issue debuts Forge, a man who can design and build pretty much anything. He's quite the inventor.

Dallas, Texas. Eagle Plaza. Dr. Valerie Cooper, special assistant to the President's National Security Advisor, and Raven Darkholme, otherwise known as MYSTIQUE, Defense Advanced Research Planning Agency, have arrived to meet an associate of Raven's. The 2 enter his penthouse, which is an awesome hologram of a wide mountain range, with the odd sight of several stairs and furniture hovering in mid-air. Both are staggered by the sight. They hear a heated conversation, and soon an older man, Native American indian man runs past them. He wants Forge to help, because the proper order of things is being overturned. Forge doesn't care. The older man is Naze. And he storms out of the penthouse. In walks Forge! He greets his guests. He is an Indian, with a small, Clark Gable-like moustache. Wearing shorts, he has a metallic enhanced leg, it appears.

Forge is a mutant, and has a knack for inventing things. Since Tony Stark stopped inventing, Forge has taken that role for the U.S. government. He takes them to his mammoth laboratory, and shows them a gun he has built to neutralize the power of any super-being, mutant or otherwise. He also has built a scanner, which can detect mutants in a crowd. Meanwhile, back in Manhattan, a certain red-haired female is walking the streets alone. The day before she had attempted to contact Charles Xavier at his School, but ran away in fear (in New Mutants #18.) As Rachel walks the lonely, fog-shrouded streets, she is hunted by the raven-haired sorceress Selene. Selene has never seen such power in a mortal, and desires Rachel. Selene attempts to grab Rachel but the mutant runs. She flees into a New York nightclub named Club D, but is soon overwhelmed by all the stray mental thoughts. The bodyguard is hustling her out the door, when the club's owner, Nick Damiano, (dressed like he walked out of a Prince and the Revolution music video!) takes an interest in Rachel, and decides to aid the confused girl. He takes her to his lush apartment, and soon Rachel is enjoying a wonderful bubble bath!

But Rachel senses Nick's mental thoughts end. She leaves the bubble bath, and finds Nick...DEAD! His corpse already a shell, the life sucked out of him. Selene is the responsible party, and once again uses her magic abilities to capture Rachel. Selene's eons of experience, and multiple powers, overwhelm our red-haired heroine. Rachel fights,but soon the apartment is awash in flame, as gas and electrical lines rupture! Selene is possessing Rachel, as the X-Men smash in to save the day! Charles Xavier hovers in, wearing his new yellow-and-black hero outfit. Colossus, Rogue and Nightcrawler leap into the flaming inferno and attack Selene. All fail against her....all except Prof X! Whose mental bolts are more than Selen can stand and she leaps into the flames and vanishes into the streets. Colossus grabs Rachel's body and the X-Men escape the burning building. (Poor Nick Damiano; you try to help a mutant, and soon you're dead & your apartment is destroyed!) Moments later, blocks away under a streetlight, the X-Men stand over this unknown red-haired stranger. Xavier senses she's a mutant, but does not know her. Though her face is....familiar. Rachel is shocked by Storm's punk outfit, and Charles can walk! How can this be? There must be a mistake. She must have "time-jumped" into the wrong past!! This isn't her world at all, but an alternate world. Rachel collapses to the ground, with Charles holding her.

My thoughts: Forge was quite an interesting fellow. His mutant power to "invent" seems rather clever. It could be used in many different ways; too bad he's working for the gov't. I don't much like his Daisy Duke shorts. Men simply should NOT wear shorts like that. I am also intrigued with this whole "Raven Darkholme" identity for Mystique. But the meat of the issue was Rachel Summers and her encounter with the vampire, Selene. Selene hasn't lost any of her twisted side from New Mutants. She said she wanted an heir...yet she seems to try to kill Rachel. The X-Men, minus Wolverine & Kitty Pryde, save the day. Well, actually superhero Professor X wins, as he now has joined the team. However, he is usurping Storm's role as leader, and the ebony Goddess is NOT so happy over that development. You'd think Charles would know better. I'm not sure if I like Xavier actively joining the X-Men on missions. But overall, a great issue. Rachel certainly is a "mystery locked in a riddle, inside an enigma."

Forge... great debut. I mean, he's a mystery, and we don't know who if he'll end up an ally, or an adversary of the X-Men. But the minute he casually discusses making a device to depower mutants or ANY superhuman, and a mutant tracking device? Whoa. Gotta respect the guy.

Naze, meanwhile, goes on to great fame as the Native American in the public service announcement who cries when someone litters along the highway.

http://dannymiller.typepad.com/blog/images/2007/05/22/cryingindian_2.jpg

I keed, I keed. Naze will play a big role down the line, though, to be sure.

Other than that, Rachel vs. Selene, round one... I'm more intrigued by Nick Damiano. If Rachel's a telepath, she'd have known if he had any malicious intent about picking a strange girl up off the street and taking her home for a bath. But it looks like he was legitimately concerned for her, since she didn't pick up on any desire to harm her... well, sorry Nick, but nice guys who help mutants finish last. Seeing Professor X take the forefront of a battle is an interesting choice, and it does prove to cause some dissent between himself and Storm, especially what with what awaits her soon...

[Home made ectoplasm]

I really hated Selene for killing Nick like that. he seemed like a nice guy.

Rachel is great in these issues.

[david r]

limerick, well.....nobody said Charles was a fashion genius. That suit stands out like a giant bullseye on his chest! :tongue: I think it's supposed to be like the classic yellow-and-black training uniforms.

DDM, I didn't know Rachel has a vendetta against Selene. It is a very good issue; I think Selene would have killed the X-Men if not for Charles Xavier's mindblast!

Dagger, I think Kitty Pryde was introduced in 1979. In these early years, she wears this long, kinda curly hair which was popular in the '70s. Finally in 1984, she got a more modern hair-style. Well............more modern for that time.

Worstblogever, I liked Forge's debut too....but those shorts! Why is the man wearing shorts?

Nick Damiano, I thought maybe he was headed for bigger things. They mentioned his "father not being happy" with him, so it seemed a backstory was brewing for Nick. But alas...no.

just another user, Selene is pure evil. She just flat-out enjoys being evil. And her powers are quite formidable.

[david r]

Going a tad off-direction, but here are some creators thoughts on landmark #100 of Uncanny X-Men. Enjoy!

"Here we were, seven issues into the series, and Dave (Cockrum) and I suddenly had to deal with a Big Event. What to do? The answer came with Jean's transformation at the end of the issue, into Phoenix (although we wouldn't see the pay-off until next issue). The team had triumphed over their adversary but here, it looked like it would be at the cost of one of their own. Little did Dave and I know then what we were setting in motion ... The creative synergy between Dave and me set the hallmark for the best of the issues to follow."

“I have mixed feelings about Uncanny X-Men #100. The X-sentinels were kind of a let-down, all things considered - not that great a resolution to the arc that began so brilliantly in #98 ("Merry Christmas, X-Men... the Sentinels are Back!"). But on the other hand, look at that cliffhanger: the X-Men hurtling back to Earth in the shuttle, Jean keeping up her shields as long as she can until finally she's beaten down and lets the radiation through. Fantastic stuff.”

“My fond memories are of #99, not #100. That was the first issue of the All New All Different X-Men that I ever saw, when I was seven or eight, at the 7-11.”

[Imraith Nimphais]

I really hated Selene for killing Nick like that. he seemed like a nice guy.

Rachel is great in these issues.

Agreed and agreed...that said, I do LOVE Selene because she is so very callous, heartless, self serving and evil...everything a right proper villain(ess) should be...with her, there are no shades of grey...just absolute black.
I was not too keen on Xavier joining the team either...he always seemed to be more interesting and (a lil mysterious) when kept in the background...but I can certainly understand his wanting a piece of the action now that he has regained the use of his legs...and yes that costume is FUG-ly!...I strongly suspect it was not Xavier's telepathic skill which drove Selene away but the close proximity to that hideousity of design...lol.

[david r]

Imraith Nimphais! Charles' FUGLY costume defeated Selene? Even Selene's awesome power was no match for the Big Yellow Costume! Did Charles have a deal with French's Mustard? :biggrin:

DDM, Is UXM #184 a favorite of yours because it brings Rachel Summers into the X-Men's world?

[david r]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.185.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #185

"Public Enemy"

A devastating cover! Has Rogue gone mad? Unfortunately, this doesn't actually happen in the story. (And an omen....Storm does not appear with the other X-Men in the top left corner!)

The Pentagon is having a debriefing with Henry Peter Gyrich, chief of Operation: Wideawake. They have Forge's neutralizer gun, and are planning to use it against Rogue. Valerie Cooper is all for the operation, but Raven Darkholme, Mystique for those of us in the know, argues against it. Wanting to save her adopted daughter. At the mansion, Storm informs Professor Xavier that Rogue has left the home. She has run away. Meanwhile, Rachel Summers calls her father, Cyclops in Alaska, and tearfully hangs up when he answers. :frown:

We find Rogue hiding out in her old haunts in Mississippi. She is having fun along the banks of the Mississippi River, swimming and sunbathing! Storm finds her and arrives, and they have an extremely well-written heart-to-heart. We learn Rogue's mutant powers first manifested while getting her first kiss with Cody Robbins. Storm listens intensely as Rogue expresses her doubts & fears. Rogue is horrified over what happened with Carol Danvers---and she is getting worse. Xavier and the X-Men are not helping things. Rogue has to spend the rest of her life as TWO PEOPLE! Storm offers her hand, so Rogue can absorb her as an act of kindness, and not violence. Rogue does, and Ororo's beautiful, Godlike powers overwhelm her. She *sees* nature in completely new ways. She flies and creates small clouds and even lightning bolts. However, her joy is ended when a blast ray cuts her in the back!

The Pentagon baddies have arrived, lead by Gyrich and Valerie Cooper. They have shot her with Forge's Neutralizer gun on moderate level, and it didn't work. Rogue weakly flies into a tree to escape. Rogue creates a massive tornado and the army boys are swept back. But she then loses control of the raging storm! Then, Ororo appears and has regained her powers. She stops the storm. As Forge himself arrives on the scene, Gyrich points the Neutralizer gun at Rogue....but Forge body-slams him to stop him. The shot goes wide...and Storm is blasted full-on by the gun! Bolts of lightning shoot out from her body! Both females fall to the river below. Forge swims out and brings Ororo back to shore. Rogue has disappeared in the confusion! Forge screams at Gyrich-- "Do you realize what you've done? You've just condemned an innocent woman! You stripped her of her powers! You've destroyed her!"

My thoughts: My favorite part here was the talk between Storm and Rogue. It's these very scenes that set this book apart from others at the time. Making them fully-realized heroes. I did not know Rogue was so messed-up and confused during this period. I imagine the climax to this issue will only make her mental state WORSE! Oh Storm, Storm! Hasn't she been through enough? Just when she has come to terms with her changes.....something horrible has happened to her!

[worstblogever]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.185.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #185

"Public Enemy"

A devastating cover! Has Rogue gone mad? Unfortunately, this doesn't actually happen in the story. (And an omen....Storm does not appear with the other X-Men in the top left corner!)

The Pentagon is having a debriefing with Henry Peter Gyrich, chief of Operation: Wideawake. They have Forge's neutralizer gun, and are planning to use it against Rogue. Valerie Cooper is all for the operation, but Raven Darkholme, Mystique for those of us in the know, argues against it. Wanting to save her adopted daughter. At the mansion, Storm informs Professor Xavier that Rogue has left the home. She has run away. Meanwhile, Rachel Summers calls her father, Cyclops in Alaska, and tearfully hangs up when he answers. :frown:

We find Rogue hiding out in her old haunts in Mississippi. She is having fun along the banks of the Mississippi River, swimming and sunbathing! Storm finds her and arrives, and they have an extremely well-written heart-to-heart. We learn Rogue's mutant powers first manifested while getting her first kiss with Cody Robbins. Storm listens intensely as Rogue expresses her doubts & fears. Rogue is horrified over what happened with Carol Danvers---and she is getting worse. Xavier and the X-Men are not helping things. Rogue has to spend the rest of her life as TWO PEOPLE! Storm offers her hand, so Rogue can absorb her as an act of kindness, and not violence. Rogue does, and Ororo's beautiful, Godlike powers overwhelm her. She *sees* nature in completely new ways. She flies and creates small clouds and even lightning bolts. However, her joy is ended when a blast ray cuts her in the back!

The Pentagon baddies have arrived, lead by Gyrich and Valerie Cooper. They have shot her with Forge's Neutralizer gun on moderate level, and it didn't work. Rogue weakly flies into a tree to escape. Rogue creates a massive tornado and the army boys are swept back. But she then loses control of the raging storm! Then, Ororo appears and has regained her powers. She stops the storm. As Forge himself arrives on the scene, Gyrich points the Neutralizer gun at Rogue....but Forge body-slams him to stop him. The shot goes wide...and Storm is blasted full-on by the gun! Bolts of lightning shoot out from her body! Both females fall to the river below. Forge swims out and brings Ororo back to shore. Rogue has disappeared in the confusion! Forge screams at Gyrich-- "Do you realize what you've done? You've just condemned an innocent woman! You stripped her of her powers! You've destroyed her!"

My thoughts: My favorite part here was the talk between Storm and Rogue. It's these very scenes that set this book apart from others at the time. Making them fully-realized heroes. I did not know Rogue was so messed-up and confused during this period. I imagine the climax to this issue will only make her mental state WORSE! Oh Storm, Storm! Hasn't she been through enough? Just when she has come to terms with her changes.....something horrible has happened to her!

This is my second attempt at this post... first was eaten by the internetz.

Anyway, this issue is a personal favorite of mine for a lot of reasons. The Storm/Rogue dynamic is outstanding.

Not 12 issues ago, wasn't Rogue being threatened as she approached the X-Men's doorstep? Now, she's trusted enough that Storm allows her to siphon her powers. It's touching to see how she has been adopted as much a part of the family at Xavier's as the rest.

I also like this issue because I love Henry Peter Gyrich as a character. And by that, I mean I love to hate the bastard. :redface: This is one of his more dastardly moments.

Now, I was thinking about Forge's reaction to seeing the neutralizer gun actually used and how he responds to seeing it hit an innocent bystander. It's like he never processes what his creation would do until he actually sees it exploited against someone who didn't deserve it.

And that thought makes me think of the scientists who helped create the atomic bomb. Upon hearing about the destruction of Hiroshima, a great many of the men who worked on the Manhattan Project supposedly went into deep depressions, if not having full mental breakdowns. They knew what they had created, but the full ramifications of it didn't set in until they actually were made aware of the actual consequences, rather than the theoretical ones.

Forge makes me think a lot of that kind of mind, with his powers. He makes some insane weapons, but not unlike say, Tony Stark, he has to be careful about whose hands they end up in.

[CJ Lentze]

I haven't read Uncanny X-Men issue 184, featuring Rachel's debut in the 616 timeline... and I didn't want to be spoiled before I finally get to read it! But issue 185 was great, and it was a turning point issue in more than one way.A devastating cover! Has Rogue gone mad? Unfortunately, this doesn't actually happen in the story. (And an omen....Storm does not appear with the other X-Men in the top left corner!)I didn't notice Storm was missing from the facebox. It's a fantastic cover, with a deviously misleading teaser. Up until this point, they'd left the window open to Rogue's possible betrayal of the X-Men. I feel that this issue (and the following issues) destroys any lingering doubts completely, especially when Rogue thinks to herself 'I must save those innocent people', and at first believes it's Storm's influence. We get to see Rogue relax and have some fun, and she talks about how her powers first manifested and how they've been her curse ever since... it all does help to make her more real and human to the reader.

It's also in this issue that Project Wideawake becomes an actual danger. Raven's influence on and control over government affairs seem to slip out of her hands. It's curious that she considers the neutraliser might be a good solution for Rogue's problems; she says out loud that ridding Rogue of her powers could give her a chance to live a normal life, so it can't be said that Mystique only wants Rogue as the Brotherhood's muscle. Everything seems to be foreshadowing and leading up to Rogue's loss of powers, until Storm gets hit with the neutraliser.Anyway, this issue is a personal favorite of mine for a lot of reasons. The Storm/Rogue dynamic is outstanding.

Not 12 issues ago, wasn't Rogue being threatened as she approached the X-Men's doorstep? Now, she's trusted enough that Storm allows her to siphon her powers. It's touching to see how she has been adopted as much a part of the family at Xavier's as the rest.It seems as though Storm is taking Rogue under her wing as her new young ward of sorts, in the absence of Kitty, who has grown out from underneath it. I like how Rogue -while trying to push Storm away- has to admit that Wolverine offered his power willingly back in Tokyo. It was also great how Storm and Rogue learn more about each other's powers; Rogue doesn't have any control over her absorbing ability, but Storm's powers are all about control, constant self-control. Rogue had to gradually build the trust the X-Men now have in her, by saving Mariko, helping to save Peter... but I think the most important part of that process is in this issue, where she begins to trust herself, and sees the heroine within herself.Now, I was thinking about Forge's reaction to seeing the neutralizer gun actually used and how he responds to seeing it hit an innocent bystander. It's like he never processes what his creation would do until he actually sees it exploited against someone who didn't deserve it.

And that thought makes me think of the scientists who helped create the atomic bomb. Upon hearing about the destruction of Hiroshima, a great many of the men who worked on the Manhattan Project supposedly went into deep depressions, if not having full mental breakdowns. They knew what they had created, but the full ramifications of it didn't set in until they actually were made aware of the actual consequences, rather than the theoretical ones.

Forge makes me think a lot of that kind of mind, with his powers. He makes some insane weapons, but not unlike say, Tony Stark, he has to be careful about whose hands they end up in.Whoa, that is a great parallel. And it adds to the theme of 'power and responsibility' of Storm's situation, though in a different way. Not unlike Mystique, Forge is a mutant trying to use government facilities so he might try and help his people... but he may have bitten off more than he can chew, not knowing how the government will ultimately use what he is creating, or if/when they'll take things out of his hands. Which is exactly what happened here.



One thing: was anyone else grossed out by the guy on the back cover Star Wars game ad? What did he have stuck in his nostril?

[DDM]

DDM, Is UXM #184 a favorite of yours because it brings Rachel Summers into the X-Men's world?

Uncanny X-Men #184 just gives the reasons why Rachel Summers goes after Selene & develops an equal hatred for her. Rachel is a telepath who was forced into Selene's mind when Selene attempted to transform her own personal slave, Selene's "heir," a psychic vampire. Furthermore, with Rachel's mother's history with the Hellfire Club & Selene eventually joins the Hellfire Club in her own right, this just seals the connection between Rachel Summers & Selene.

Besides, Selene is really a great villain. An absolutely evil woman who has lived eons. Selene nearly defeated the X-Men & had fought the New Mutants previously to a stand still.

[Imraith Nimphais]

A CLASSIC!!!...This issue is one of my all-time faves as Storm's tragedy truly ripped me apart...(for the briefest of moments, I absolutely hated CC for what he did to her)...while this is indeed a defining moment for Rogue, finally "coming to terms" with herself, it is even more so for Storm as it leads into a period of the most profound character developement (for her) not seen in the pages of the x-books since(imho)...after reading it yesterday, and looking back on the past year (or so) of stories(read in the space of a few weeks) , personally, I felt as though this issue was a (dramatic) culmination of all the emotional trauma that pervaded the team...the heartbreak, misery, doubts...it all finally came to a pressure point and found release with Ororo's anguished cry when she is hit with the neutralizer...a slow build-up into a (surprising and heartfelt) crescendo indicative of Claremont's artistry and evocative storytelling....(from which more than a few of today's writers could take note).
ps...great analogy, WBE, it got me thinking about the (ir)responsibility if our scientists and inventors...as I read your post I remembered Tony Stark in the Iron Man movie echoing a similar sentiment.

[Darkchylde]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.185.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #185

"Public Enemy"

A devastating cover! Has Rogue gone mad? Unfortunately, this doesn't actually happen in the story. (And an omen....Storm does not appear with the other X-Men in the top left corner!)

The Pentagon is having a debriefing with Henry Peter Gyrich, chief of Operation: Wideawake. They have Forge's neutralizer gun, and are planning to use it against Rogue. Valerie Cooper is all for the operation, but Raven Darkholme, Mystique for those of us in the know, argues against it. Wanting to save her adopted daughter. At the mansion, Storm informs Professor Xavier that Rogue has left the home. She has run away. Meanwhile, Rachel Summers calls her father, Cyclops in Alaska, and tearfully hangs up when he answers. :frown:

We find Rogue hiding out in her old haunts in Mississippi. She is having fun along the banks of the Mississippi River, swimming and sunbathing! Storm finds her and arrives, and they have an extremely well-written heart-to-heart. We learn Rogue's mutant powers first manifested while getting her first kiss with Cody Robbins. Storm listens intensely as Rogue expresses her doubts & fears. Rogue is horrified over what happened with Carol Danvers---and she is getting worse. Xavier and the X-Men are not helping things. Rogue has to spend the rest of her life as TWO PEOPLE! Storm offers her hand, so Rogue can absorb her as an act of kindness, and not violence. Rogue does, and Ororo's beautiful, Godlike powers overwhelm her. She *sees* nature in completely new ways. She flies and creates small clouds and even lightning bolts. However, her joy is ended when a blast ray cuts her in the back!

The Pentagon baddies have arrived, lead by Gyrich and Valerie Cooper. They have shot her with Forge's Neutralizer gun on moderate level, and it didn't work. Rogue weakly flies into a tree to escape. Rogue creates a massive tornado and the army boys are swept back. But she then loses control of the raging storm! Then, Ororo appears and has regained her powers. She stops the storm. As Forge himself arrives on the scene, Gyrich points the Neutralizer gun at Rogue....but Forge body-slams him to stop him. The shot goes wide...and Storm is blasted full-on by the gun! Bolts of lightning shoot out from her body! Both females fall to the river below. Forge swims out and brings Ororo back to shore. Rogue has disappeared in the confusion! Forge screams at Gyrich-- "Do you realize what you've done? You've just condemned an innocent woman! You stripped her of her powers! You've destroyed her!"

My thoughts: My favorite part here was the talk between Storm and Rogue. It's these very scenes that set this book apart from others at the time. Making them fully-realized heroes. I did not know Rogue was so messed-up and confused during this period. I imagine the climax to this issue will only make her mental state WORSE! Oh Storm, Storm! Hasn't she been through enough? Just when she has come to terms with her changes.....something horrible has happened to her!

Ahh, issue 185, the one that solidified my love of all things 'X' (actually, that already occured through the X-Men arcade game, the one-shot cartoon "Pryde of the X-Men," and the 1990's X-Men trading cards). It also made me fiend for the next issue so I could find out what happened to Storm, though it would take me several years before I could buy the subsequent back-issues; but boy, were they worth the wait.

This was also a great time to be an X-fan. I know many fans and creators recall the Claremont/Byrne era as the definitive X-Men, and rightfully so, but this period and these characters (Storm, Kitty, Colossus, Nightcrawler, Rogue and Wolverine) were pretty nigh-unstoppable. And poor Storm! She had just started being comfortable with herself and the changes she'd made, only to be faced with a new set of challenges as a result of the loss of her powers.

It sure made for good storytelling though; unlike other events that may have spanned two or three issues, Storm's loss of power had a lasting effect for quite some time. It may have been Storm's personal baptism of fire, but she became stronger for it.

[david r]

worstblogever, 100% right about Rogue's acceptance into the X-Men. Ororo took an awful risk letting Rogue "absorb" her. I'm not sure I could have done that. What if she ended up like Carol Danvers? As for Mr. Henry Gyrich, I think he's easy to hate because he seems so REAL. Emotionless and uncaring about the consequences, he goes about this with a total detachment. He seems the total G-Man stereotype.

Your point about Forge is telling. Like many scientists, they don't contemplate what they create. I too was reminded of Oppenheimer and those A-Bomb scientists. Didn't Forge think making a Neutralizer Gun against superheroes might be turned on mutants? He HIMSELF is a mutant!

Schuimend Mormel, I love your new avatar! Inspired by this issue? It seems you are a big fan of Rachel Summers. How did you find that like for her?

Rogue definitely has ended any doubts about her. At least for me. Sadly, as the X-Men are warming up to her, Rogue's life is falling apart. I think it would have been FAR better if Rogue had been hit by the Neutralizer Gun, and lost her powers. Her agony might have ended. Now, she must live with a lot of guilt.

I hadn't thought of Ororo taking Rogue under her wing. Good point. And yes, that guy in the Star Wars ad was radical, man. You can even see his dental work. Looking at the old ads, can actually be very amusing.

Imraith Nimpaith, My, these last 2 issues have been a lot of personal faves for people. A renaissance time? A Classic? I agree completely! Chris Claremont seems to be putting Storm through a LOT right now. I think you are right that many long-simmering plots came to a head in #184-185. Operation:Wideawake finally make their move. Rogue and her issues. But most tragic of all..... Storm. After all the soul-searching and painful decisions she's endured, she now faces a most difficult time in her life. I like these stories, but as you say, sometimes wonder why Claremont puts them (and US) thru much pain.

Darkchylde, This is indeed a great time for X-fans. A lot is happening, including in New Mutants, . I wonder how CC juggled all the subplots?? The one-shot cartoon "Pryde of the X-Men"---I've never seen it. Was it any good?

[worstblogever]

This is indeed a great time for X-fans. A lot is happening, including in New Mutants, . I wonder how CC juggled all the subplots?? The one-shot cartoon "Pryde of the X-Men"---I've never seen it. Was it any good?

Coincidentally, I'll be posting a link, and reviewing Pryde of the X-Men in the "Animated X-Men from the Beginning" Thread up next, likely on Thursday. If you can get Youtube, you'll be able to watch and judge for yourself, david r. Seems like the least I can do in return for your commitment to all these threads.

[Darkchylde]

worstblogever, 100% right about Rogue's acceptance into the X-Men. Ororo took an awful risk letting Rogue "absorb" her. I'm not sure I could have done that. What if she ended up like Carol Danvers? As for Mr. Henry Gyrich, I think he's easy to hate because he seems so REAL. Emotionless and uncaring about the consequences, he goes about this with a total detachment. He seems the total G-Man stereotype.

Your point about Forge is telling. Like many scientists, they don't contemplate what they create. I too was reminded of Oppenheimer and those A-Bomb scientists. Didn't Forge think making a Neutralizer Gun against superheroes might be turned on mutants? He HIMSELF is a mutant!

Schuimend Mormel, I love your new avatar! Inspired by this issue? It seems you are a big fan of Rachel Summers. How did you find that like for her?

Rogue definitely has ended any doubts about her. At least for me. Sadly, as the X-Men are warming up to her, Rogue's life is falling apart. I think it would have been FAR better if Rogue had been hit by the Neutralizer Gun, and lost her powers. Her agony might have ended. Now, she must live with a lot of guilt.

I hadn't thought of Ororo taking Rogue under her wing. Good point. And yes, that guy in the Star Wars ad was radical, man. You can even see his dental work. Looking at the old ads, can actually be very amusing.

Imraith Nimpaith, My, these last 2 issues have been a lot of personal faves for people. A renaissance time? A Classic? I agree completely! Chris Claremont seems to be putting Storm through a LOT right now. I think you are right that many long-simmering plots came to a head in #184-185. Operation:Wideawake finally make their move. Rogue and her issues. But most tragic of all..... Storm. After all the soul-searching and painful decisions she's endured, she now faces a most difficult time in her life. I like these stories, but as you say, sometimes wonder why Claremont puts them (and US) thru much pain.

Darkchylde, This is indeed a great time for X-fans. A lot is happening, including in New Mutants, . I wonder how CC juggled all the subplots?? The one-shot cartoon "Pryde of the X-Men"---I've never seen it. Was it any good?


Actually, the "Pryde of the X-Men" was supposed to be the pilot episode of an X-Men series to air on NBC in the late eighties. The episode is titled "Pryde of the X-Men" because it introduces Kitty Pryde to the team (whose members included Storm, Cyclops, Colossus, Nightcrawler, Dazzler, and Wolverine - who spoke with an Australian accent!) as they battle Magneto and his Brotherhood of Mutants (White Queen, Juggernaut, Toad, Pyro, and Blob).

It was a decent pilot, and the animation was pure 80's (I mean that in a good way), but there are some inconsistancies that are too glaring to be ignored (Juggernaut and the White Queen in the Brotherhood? Lockheed an Asteroid M refugee?)

[Darkchylde]

Actually, the "Pryde of the X-Men" was supposed to be the pilot episode of an X-Men series to air on NBC in the late eighties. The episode is titled "Pryde of the X-Men" because it introduces Kitty Pryde to the team (whose members included Storm, Cyclops, Colossus, Nightcrawler, Dazzler, and Wolverine - who spoke with an Australian accent!) as they battle Magneto and his Brotherhood of Mutants (White Queen, Juggernaut, Toad, Pyro, and Blob).

It was a decent pilot, and the animation was pure 80's (I mean that in a good way), but there are some inconsistancies that are too glaring to be ignored (Juggernaut and the White Queen in the Brotherhood? Lockheed an Asteroid M refugee?)

AND did I mention Wolvie's Australian accent! What gives, eh?

[CJ Lentze]

Schuimend Mormel, I love your new avatar! Inspired by this issue? It seems you are a big fan of Rachel Summers. How did you find that like for her?Uncanny X-Men issue 189 was the first Claremont issue I read when I tried 80s X-Men for the first time- well, sort of. It was really the last half of 188 plus issue 189 combined into one in a Dutch translation. The issue features Rachel in a prominent role, and... well, we'll see when this thread gets to #189.

The main reasons I like Rachel so much are that she sort of represents the future of the X-Men as the daughter of Scott and Jean, AND I related to her because I was a troubled/messed-up teenager myself when I first read her stories.

[david r]

WBE, "Pryde of the X-Men"--I will read your summary of it in your great Animated X-Men from the Beginning thread. I must be honest: I saw the very FIRST episode of the X-Men animated series in 1992.....and never watched another one. So I'm fairly unfamiliar with TAS so am looking forward to your reviews of those episodes.

Darkchylde, Wolverine with an Australian accent? Were did that come from? I recall seeing ads for that show way back when. I think Marvel sold a video for it. Alas, my knowledge of the animated X-Men is limited. :wink:

Schuimend, I have noticed Rachel Summers looks very thin, even under-nourished in her X-MEN and New Mutants debuts. I think the future was not kind to her. I really don't know her that well, so I'm hoping that changes with this reading. And, I hope you're not still troubled. It's interesting how we find mirrors of ourselves in fiction and like them for that.

[david r]

One other thing, I've noticed a permanent creative team has emerged on Uncanny X-Men, with writer-Chris Claremont, letterer-Tom Orzechowski, and colorist- Glynis Wein entrenched here. All 3 have been working with each other for many issues now, so much I've noticed. They were putting out an excellent product at the time.

--When Rogue gains Storm's miraculous weather-powers, in #185, she feels ecstasy which Rogue describes to the readers. This was very clever...letting us readers in on the glory that Ororo enjoys each day. Just so we can realize the sheer enormity of what Ororo has apparently just LOST! :frown:

[Dr. Ghost]

not to get off-topic, but I just finished reading the Dark Phoenix issues.
it was epic.

too bad jean comes back and dies a billion times after, but i haven't read that far.

[david r]

not to get off-topic, but I just finished reading the Dark Phoenix issues.
it was epic.

It truly was. A masterpiece, filled with emotion. Have you read Jean Grey's funeral? I think that is the part where the boot kicked me in the stomach; seeing Lilandra hand Jean's parents that holographic ball of Jean. I'll never forget that scene.

What did you think of the Magneto vs. X-Men under that volcano? (#112-113) An epic battle! And then the journey across the Savage Land, Japan and Canada. Did you like that adventure?

And to celebrate his debut, here is Forge ready for action:

http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/img/f/Forge.jpg

[Dr. Ghost]

It truly was. A masterpiece, filled with emotion. Have you read Jean Grey's funeral? I think that is the part where the boot kicked me in the stomach; seeing Lilandra hand Jean's parents that holographic ball of Jean. I'll never forget that scene.

What did you think of the Magneto vs. X-Men under that volcano? (#112-113) An epic battle! And then the journey across the Savage Land, Japan and Canada. Did you like that adventure?

And to celebrate his debut, here is Forge ready for action:

http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/img/f/Forge.jpg
Yeah, it was sad. And I wonder where Cyclops is.

I'm surprised that both groups thought each other was dead for so long.
And that was one drawn out absence from the mansion.
Alpha Flight was an interesting team; I would've liked to see more issues of them in battle.
Northstar was pretty ruthless, sucker punching Cyclops.
then the proteus storyline. a bunch of good stories in just a couple of issues. not bad.
i thought arcade was lame, though.

I'm glad that they brought back plot elements from the early issues:
finding new mutants.

I didn't care for Dazzler much, but Kitty seems interesting.

[heretic]

My thoughts: Forge was quite an interesting fellow. His mutant power to "invent" seems rather clever. It could be used in many different ways; too bad he's working for the gov't. I don't much like his Daisy Duke shorts. Men simply should NOT wear shorts like that.
'Twas the '80s, cope. I am also intrigued with this whole "Raven Darkholme" identity for Mystique.
IIRC it was established as far back as her earliest showings in Ms Marvel. Raven is _definitely_ the sneaky one here.... But the meat of the issue was Rachel Summers and her encounter with the vampire, Selene. Selene hasn't lost any of her twisted side from New Mutants. She said she wanted an heir...yet she seems to try to kill Rachel.
Or tear her apart to remake in her own image....

And yes, while men are meat or short term catspaws/fronts, it is pretty teenage girls that inspire ideas of long term companionship (along with stalking) in Selene. Are You Pondering What I Am Pondering? The X-Men, minus Wolverine & Kitty Pryde, save the day. Well, actually superhero Professor X wins, as he now has joined the team. However, he is usurping Storm's role as leader, and the ebony Goddess is NOT so happy over that development.
I was really hoping that he would... actually, he did screw up by being in the field and thus distracted with his own risks. I fear Chris took the easiy way out to sideling Storm and remove Chuck from the board when she got her head together.You'd think Charles would know better. I'm not sure if I like Xavier actively joining the X-Men on missions. But overall, a great issue. Rachel certainly is a "mystery locked in a riddle, inside an enigma."And some nasty suprises when things get open.

HTG

[david r]

Dr. Ghost, Alpha Flight make more appearances in this series. And then....there is their own cool book itself. Highly recommended. :smile:

Heretic: I did not know Selene preferred the girls to the boys. Danielle Moonstar, Rachel Summers. You're saying there's a pattern?

As for Charles Xavier, Chris Claremont wanted him to get more active in the stories. Actually, become a superhero in his own right. It took him a LONG time, but we're finally here. I'm not sure Storm is very happy with his involvement........of course, the point may be moot now. See below! :frown:

[david r]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.186.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #186

"Lifedeath"

Masterpieces don't come often in American comics. Even fewer in superhero titles. I'd say this issue comes pretty close to masterpiece in funny books I've seen yet. A painful, emotionally-burning love story. Forge. Storm. Chris Claremont and Barry Windsor Smith. Lifedeath.

Once upon a time, there was a woman who could fly. Ororo Munroe lies still, wrapped in sheets on a bed. Her blues eyes staring off into space, devoid of feeling. Forge has taken her to his special penthouse. Forge is taking care of her, after losing her powers to his Neutralizer Gun, in #185. Ororo has lost the will to live. Her awesome weather-powers taken from her, forever. Forge tries to bring her out of it, with no avail. He wanders down his bizarre penthouse, with holograms and stairs floating in open air. Using his mutant power to "create", he plays a replay of the events that lead to Storm's lost powers. Meanwhile, Professor Xavier and Nightcrawler are using Cerebro to attempt to locate Storm. She has disappeared from Cerebro's sensors. Xavier felt an incredible burst of pain from Ororo, but he cannot now locate her.

Back with Forge & Storm, they calmly talk in Forge's apartment. Ororo seems more lucid now. She explains how her powers worked; how she was ONE with nature. She feels life will now be a mere shadow of her former life. Mere existence. Forge replies she has to walk like everybody else now. The Goddess has become just plain folks. He dives into his swimming pool, and Ororo soon follows him. When they arrive at the other side, Ororo notices his enhanced leg sitting on the ground. Forge is missing a leg. Forge says they have more in common than Ororo realizes. His right side is scarred; Forge says he was wounded in Vietnam. He was lucky to make it. As they leave the pool, Ororo says "As you say, I have become just plain folks."

Back in Mississippi, Valerie Cooper bids goodnight to a fellow government agent. Phil enters his car, as a gruesome Dire Wraith smashes onto his vehicle. A tentacle slams into Phil's forehead, and the life is sucked out of him! The Dire Wraith transforms into the gov't agent, and he and 2 other Dire Wraiths break into Valerie Cooper's motel room. They are readying to take control of Val, when Rogue bursts in. Rogue is seeking revenge for events from UXM #185. Rogue slams a Dire Wraith right thru a wall and outside. Valerie grabs a gun and shoots a bullet into the head of the evil agent Phil. As Val flees the room, Rogue touches her skin to the last Dire Wraith...and there is a huge explosion! Rogue throws up, as she absorbs the memories and psyche of the Dire Wraith. It attempts to seize control of her. Valerie finds Phil's car and begins to drive away, being chased by a helicopter. But Rogue finds her way into the automobile, and touches Valerie. The car careens into a tree, as Rogue absorbs her memories. With a look of horror, Rogue learns that Storm has lost her powers, in the confrontation with Operation: Wideawake in #185. Rogue leaves Val behind and runs away, headed back to Xavier's.

Back at Forge's apartment, Storm tries on a pink dress. Forge is so stunned by her beauty, he can barely speak. Ororo instead changes into work-style attire, as Forge has prepared them dinner. Storm drinks champange for the first time...and likes it. Forge is the true romantic. Ororo learns Forge is Cheyenne. Ororo tells Forge that her parents were killed by bombs, and she watched her mother die. She has never told another living soul this. Forge says "I propose a toast: to crips and outcasts." Storm reveals her detached, "Goddess" persona (in her early years with the X-Men) was an attempt to control her weather powers. She needed complete discipline & control over her emotions, otherwise her powers would go wild. This resulted in her becoming cold and losing virtually all awareness of myself as a woman. She recently rebelled against this behavior, by cutting her hair and changing her clothes. Forge takes her hand, and they kiss on the lips. Forge says, "You're beautiful." Storm: "You also." The phone rings, and Forge takes it in the other room. Ororo picks up the receiver and overhears Forge and Henry Peter Gyrich converse. She learns the Neutralizer Gun was designed & built by Forge. She is shocked and runs from the kitchen.

Storm runs through Forge's penthouse, as it comes alive showing scenes of Vietnam, via his holographic image-inducer. Monsters appear, within the jungle foliage! Forge chases after her, trying to stop her. A huge thunder and lightning storm bellows outside. The emotionally distraught Storm makes her way outside, and wonders whether she should jump to her death. Forge screams for her to stop. Storm feels she can not trust him now. Everything Forge learns from her, will be given to the government. He approaches her, and Storm punches him!! Storm says, he lives in his high tower, untouched by others and society, surrounded by illusion. His life is a deception. Ororo turns, and as she walks away, she says "My feet may never leave the ground...but someday, I shall fly again!"

[Falconen]

This issue also had great character moments for Rogue, where she was saving the tug boat and crew, and being thoughtless of her own safety, and all along thinking it was the Storm aspect she had absorbed... only to realize, after Storm started to assist, that all those thoughts were really her own. I love the thought bubble... "Ain't that a crock-- my reputation really is shot!"

[Falconen]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.186.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #186

"Lifedeath"

Masterpieces don't come often in American comics. Even fewer in superhero titles. I'd say this issue comes pretty close to masterpiece in funny books I've seen yet. A painful, emotionally-burning love story. Forge. Storm. Chris Claremont and Barry Windsor Smith. Lifedeath.

Once upon a time, there was a woman who could fly. Ororo Munroe lies still, wrapped in sheets on a bed. Her blues eyes staring off into space, devoid of feeling. Forge has taken her to his special penthouse. Forge is taking care of her, after losing her powers to his Neutralizer Gun, in #185. Ororo has lost the will to live. Her awesome weather-powers taken from her, forever. Forge tries to bring her out of it, with no avail. He wanders down his bizarre penthouse, with holograms and stairs floating in open air. Using his mutant power to "create", he plays a replay of the events that lead to Storm's lost powers. Meanwhile, Professor Xavier and Nightcrawler are using Cerebro to attempt to locate Storm. She has disappeared from Cerebro's sensors. Xavier felt an incredible burst of pain from Ororo, but he cannot now locate her.

Back with Forge & Storm, they calmly talk in Forge's apartment. Ororo seems more lucid now. She explains how her powers worked; how she was ONE with nature. She feels life will now be a mere shadow of her former life. Mere existence. Forge replies she has to walk like everybody else now. The Goddess has become just plain folks. He dives into his swimming pool, and Ororo soon follows him. When they arrive at the other side, Ororo notices his enhanced leg sitting on the ground. Forge is missing a leg. Forge says they have more in common than Ororo realizes. His right side is scarred; Forge says he was wounded in Vietnam. He was lucky to make it. As they leave the pool, Ororo says "As you say, I have become just plain folks."

Back in Mississippi, Valerie Cooper bids goodnight to a fellow government agent. Phil enters his car, as a gruesome Dire Wraith smashes onto his vehicle. A tentacle slams into Phil's forehead, and the life is sucked out of him! The Dire Wraith transforms into the gov't agent, and he and 2 other Dire Wraiths break into Valerie Cooper's motel room. They are readying to take control of Val, when Rogue bursts in. Rogue is seeking revenge for events from UXM #185. Rogue slams a Dire Wraith right thru a wall and outside. Valerie grabs a gun and shoots a bullet into the head of the evil agent Phil. As Val flees the room, Rogue touches her skin to the last Dire Wraith...and there is a huge explosion! Rogue throws up, as she absorbs the memories and psyche of the Dire Wraith. It attempts to seize control of her. Valerie finds Phil's car and begins to drive away, being chased by a helicopter. But Rogue finds her way into the automobile, and touches Valerie. The car careens into a tree, as Rogue absorbs her memories. With a look of horror, Rogue learns that Storm has lost her powers, in the confrontation with Operation: Wideawake in #185. Rogue leaves Val behind and runs away, headed back to Xavier's.

Back at Forge's apartment, Storm tries on a pink dress. Forge is so stunned by her beauty, he can barely speak. Ororo instead changes into work-style attire, as Forge has prepared them dinner. Storm drinks champange for the first time...and likes it. Forge is the true romantic. Ororo learns Forge is Cheyenne. Ororo tells Forge that her parents were killed by bombs, and she watched her mother die. She has never told another living soul this. Forge says "I propose a toast: to crips and outcasts." Storm reveals her detached, "Goddess" persona (in her early years with the X-Men) was an attempt to control her weather powers. She needed complete discipline & control over her emotions, otherwise her powers would go wild. This resulted in her becoming cold and losing virtually all awareness of myself as a woman. She recently rebelled against this behavior, by cutting her hair and changing her clothes. Forge takes her hand, and they kiss on the lips. Forge says, "You're beautiful." Storm: "You also." The phone rings, and Forge takes it in the other room. Ororo picks up the receiver and overhears Forge and Henry Peter Gyrich converse. She learns the Neutralizer Gun was designed & built by Forge. She is shocked and runs from the kitchen.

Storm runs through Forge's penthouse, as it comes alive showing scenes of Vietnam, via his holographic image-inducer. Monsters appear, within the jungle foliage! Forge chases after her, trying to stop her. A huge thunder and lightning storm bellows outside. The emotionally distraught Storm makes her way outside, and wonders whether she should jump to her death. Forge screams for her to stop. Storm feels she can not trust him now. Everything Forge learns from her, will be given to the government. He approaches her, and Storm punches him!! Storm says, he lives in his high tower, untouched by others and society, surrounded by illusion. His life is a deception. Ororo turns, and as she walks away, she says "My feet may never leave the ground...but someday, I shall fly again!"


Beautiful, BWS art. Lovely and touching story. Storms pink dress was very pretty, but I also liked her over alls. Rogue's confrontation with Val Cooper was great. She "extracted" the info she wanted out of Val's head.

The Dire Wraiths are disgusting, and are deadly adversaries. They made the cross over from ROM, the Space Knight, who Marvel also lost licensing to. They also killed Torpedo :frown:.

Next issue is good. Lot's of action and Storm shows that she doesn't need powers to be effective.

[DDM]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.186.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #186

"Lifedeath"

Masterpieces don't come often in American comics. Even fewer in superhero titles. I'd say this issue comes pretty close to masterpiece in funny books I've seen yet. A painful, emotionally-burning love story. Forge. Storm. Chris Claremont and Barry Windsor Smith. Lifedeath.

Once upon a time, there was a woman who could fly. Ororo Munroe lies still, wrapped in sheets on a bed. Her blues eyes staring off into space, devoid of feeling. Forge has taken her to his special penthouse. Forge is taking care of her, after losing her powers to his Neutralizer Gun, in #185. Ororo has lost the will to live. Her awesome weather-powers taken from her, forever. Forge tries to bring her out of it, with no avail. He wanders down his bizarre penthouse, with holograms and stairs floating in open air. Using his mutant power to "create", he plays a replay of the events that lead to Storm's lost powers. Meanwhile, Professor Xavier and Nightcrawler are using Cerebro to attempt to locate Storm. She has disappeared from Cerebro's sensors. Xavier felt an incredible burst of pain from Ororo, but he cannot now locate her.

Back with Forge & Storm, they calmly talk in Forge's apartment. Ororo seems more lucid now. She explains how her powers worked; how she was ONE with nature. She feels life will now be a mere shadow of her former life. Mere existence. Forge replies she has to walk like everybody else now. The Goddess has become just plain folks. He dives into his swimming pool, and Ororo soon follows him. When they arrive at the other side, Ororo notices his enhanced leg sitting on the ground. Forge is missing a leg. Forge says they have more in common than Ororo realizes. His right side is scarred; Forge says he was wounded in Vietnam. He was lucky to make it. As they leave the pool, Ororo says "As you say, I have become just plain folks."

Back in Mississippi, Valerie Cooper bids goodnight to a fellow government agent. Phil enters his car, as a gruesome Dire Wraith smashes onto his vehicle. A tentacle slams into Phil's forehead, and the life is sucked out of him! The Dire Wraith transforms into the gov't agent, and he and 2 other Dire Wraiths break into Valerie Cooper's motel room. They are readying to take control of Val, when Rogue bursts in. Rogue is seeking revenge for events from UXM #185. Rogue slams a Dire Wraith right thru a wall and outside. Valerie grabs a gun and shoots a bullet into the head of the evil agent Phil. As Val flees the room, Rogue touches her skin to the last Dire Wraith...and there is a huge explosion! Rogue throws up, as she absorbs the memories and psyche of the Dire Wraith. It attempts to seize control of her. Valerie finds Phil's car and begins to drive away, being chased by a helicopter. But Rogue finds her way into the automobile, and touches Valerie. The car careens into a tree, as Rogue absorbs her memories. With a look of horror, Rogue learns that Storm has lost her powers, in the confrontation with Operation: Wideawake in #185. Rogue leaves Val behind and runs away, headed back to Xavier's.

Back at Forge's apartment, Storm tries on a pink dress. Forge is so stunned by her beauty, he can barely speak. Ororo instead changes into work-style attire, as Forge has prepared them dinner. Storm drinks champange for the first time...and likes it. Forge is the true romantic. Ororo learns Forge is Cheyenne. Ororo tells Forge that her parents were killed by bombs, and she watched her mother die. She has never told another living soul this. Forge says "I propose a toast: to crips and outcasts." Storm reveals her detached, "Goddess" persona (in her early years with the X-Men) was an attempt to control her weather powers. She needed complete discipline & control over her emotions, otherwise her powers would go wild. This resulted in her becoming cold and losing virtually all awareness of myself as a woman. She recently rebelled against this behavior, by cutting her hair and changing her clothes. Forge takes her hand, and they kiss on the lips. Forge says, "You're beautiful." Storm: "You also." The phone rings, and Forge takes it in the other room. Ororo picks up the receiver and overhears Forge and Henry Peter Gyrich converse. She learns the Neutralizer Gun was designed & built by Forge. She is shocked and runs from the kitchen.

Storm runs through Forge's penthouse, as it comes alive showing scenes of Vietnam, via his holographic image-inducer. Monsters appear, within the jungle foliage! Forge chases after her, trying to stop her. A huge thunder and lightning storm bellows outside. The emotionally distraught Storm makes her way outside, and wonders whether she should jump to her death. Forge screams for her to stop. Storm feels she can not trust him now. Everything Forge learns from her, will be given to the government. He approaches her, and Storm punches him!! Storm says, he lives in his high tower, untouched by others and society, surrounded by illusion. His life is a deception. Ororo turns, and as she walks away, she says "My feet may never leave the ground...but someday, I shall fly again!"

Uncanny X-Men #186 is so deeply written on so many levels. The tragedy of Storm losing her powers & dealing with it while she also falls in love with Forge & learns his weapon is the reason for her lost powers just sets in motion more later stories, equally important later on. We, the readers, learn deeply personal moments between Storm & Forge. For instance, we learn how Ororo's powers work than ever before while Forge is more haunted by his past that he is reticent to talk about. Forge has his own demons, but, unfortunately, are real. In this one issue, I believe Forge & Ororo do love each other.

In the meantime, the female Dire Wraiths, who possess mystical powers linked to their black sun galaxy, seek to concentrate their power by attempting to kill Forge since his weapon is almost a duplicate of Rom's gun. Rogue, ironically, saves Val Cooper from certain death from the Dire Wraiths.

The Hellfire Club's Sebastian Shaw, the Black King, is also indirectly responsible for Storm losing her powers since he is secretly building Sentinels for the Federal Government. I also like how Mystique is also indirectly involved, but she is seeking to help mutant kind in her own way as Raven Darkholme given her role as part of the Secretary of Defense.

Barry Windsor-Smith's art is equally grand in its detail given he pencils, inks, & colors the entire book himself.

I just love the layers this one simple double-sized book gives to the readers. Sadly, Marvel does not make books like this anymore & we are at a loss for it.

The storyline continues for the next two issues.

[Imraith Nimphais]

The art!!! OMGoddess!!!Barry Windsor-Smith draws a most beauty-full Ororo...I refer to the champagne scenes with her and Forge in the kitchen...there is an elegance, grace and strength to his line and form that lends itself perfectly to Storm in particular, at the same time it also translates easily into savage ferocity as we would see in an up-coming "wolverine" issue...this single issue placed him in my all-time top 5 favourite artists...I loved Forge's lyrical and poetic soliloquy at the begining when he is describing Storm...and although there was no lead-in story to thier "relationship"...I could truly believe, from that intro, how deeply he felt for her...you spoke true, David...a Masterpiece, indeed.

[worstblogever]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.186.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #186

"Lifedeath"

Masterpieces don't come often in American comics. Even fewer in superhero titles. I'd say this issue comes pretty close to masterpiece in funny books I've seen yet. A painful, emotionally-burning love story. Forge. Storm. Chris Claremont and Barry Windsor Smith. Lifedeath.

Once upon a time, there was a woman who could fly. Ororo Munroe lies still, wrapped in sheets on a bed. Her blues eyes staring off into space, devoid of feeling. Forge has taken her to his special penthouse. Forge is taking care of her, after losing her powers to his Neutralizer Gun, in #185. Ororo has lost the will to live. Her awesome weather-powers taken from her, forever. Forge tries to bring her out of it, with no avail. He wanders down his bizarre penthouse, with holograms and stairs floating in open air. Using his mutant power to "create", he plays a replay of the events that lead to Storm's lost powers. Meanwhile, Professor Xavier and Nightcrawler are using Cerebro to attempt to locate Storm. She has disappeared from Cerebro's sensors. Xavier felt an incredible burst of pain from Ororo, but he cannot now locate her.

Back with Forge & Storm, they calmly talk in Forge's apartment. Ororo seems more lucid now. She explains how her powers worked; how she was ONE with nature. She feels life will now be a mere shadow of her former life. Mere existence. Forge replies she has to walk like everybody else now. The Goddess has become just plain folks. He dives into his swimming pool, and Ororo soon follows him. When they arrive at the other side, Ororo notices his enhanced leg sitting on the ground. Forge is missing a leg. Forge says they have more in common than Ororo realizes. His right side is scarred; Forge says he was wounded in Vietnam. He was lucky to make it. As they leave the pool, Ororo says "As you say, I have become just plain folks."

Back in Mississippi, Valerie Cooper bids goodnight to a fellow government agent. Phil enters his car, as a gruesome Dire Wraith smashes onto his vehicle. A tentacle slams into Phil's forehead, and the life is sucked out of him! The Dire Wraith transforms into the gov't agent, and he and 2 other Dire Wraiths break into Valerie Cooper's motel room. They are readying to take control of Val, when Rogue bursts in. Rogue is seeking revenge for events from UXM #185. Rogue slams a Dire Wraith right thru a wall and outside. Valerie grabs a gun and shoots a bullet into the head of the evil agent Phil. As Val flees the room, Rogue touches her skin to the last Dire Wraith...and there is a huge explosion! Rogue throws up, as she absorbs the memories and psyche of the Dire Wraith. It attempts to seize control of her. Valerie finds Phil's car and begins to drive away, being chased by a helicopter. But Rogue finds her way into the automobile, and touches Valerie. The car careens into a tree, as Rogue absorbs her memories. With a look of horror, Rogue learns that Storm has lost her powers, in the confrontation with Operation: Wideawake in #185. Rogue leaves Val behind and runs away, headed back to Xavier's.

Back at Forge's apartment, Storm tries on a pink dress. Forge is so stunned by her beauty, he can barely speak. Ororo instead changes into work-style attire, as Forge has prepared them dinner. Storm drinks champange for the first time...and likes it. Forge is the true romantic. Ororo learns Forge is Cheyenne. Ororo tells Forge that her parents were killed by bombs, and she watched her mother die. She has never told another living soul this. Forge says "I propose a toast: to crips and outcasts." Storm reveals her detached, "Goddess" persona (in her early years with the X-Men) was an attempt to control her weather powers. She needed complete discipline & control over her emotions, otherwise her powers would go wild. This resulted in her becoming cold and losing virtually all awareness of myself as a woman. She recently rebelled against this behavior, by cutting her hair and changing her clothes. Forge takes her hand, and they kiss on the lips. Forge says, "You're beautiful." Storm: "You also." The phone rings, and Forge takes it in the other room. Ororo picks up the receiver and overhears Forge and Henry Peter Gyrich converse. She learns the Neutralizer Gun was designed & built by Forge. She is shocked and runs from the kitchen.

Storm runs through Forge's penthouse, as it comes alive showing scenes of Vietnam, via his holographic image-inducer. Monsters appear, within the jungle foliage! Forge chases after her, trying to stop her. A huge thunder and lightning storm bellows outside. The emotionally distraught Storm makes her way outside, and wonders whether she should jump to her death. Forge screams for her to stop. Storm feels she can not trust him now. Everything Forge learns from her, will be given to the government. He approaches her, and Storm punches him!! Storm says, he lives in his high tower, untouched by others and society, surrounded by illusion. His life is a deception. Ororo turns, and as she walks away, she says "My feet may never leave the ground...but someday, I shall fly again!"


Other than the seemingly random first appearance of the Dire Wraiths, this issue is flawless. Rogue, flustered and hunting after Ororo, not holding back on using her powers to find out what happened to Rogue, and hunting down Val Cooper, a federal agent to do it!

Meanwhile, Forge, while a sympathetic character still comes off as a bit grey for not being fully honest with Storm, in spite of their tragic budding romance.

I think about this issue, and I wonder why Claremont dialogue today just doesn't ring true like it did in Uncanny #186. Sadly, this is the kind of standard I hold him to as a writer, and I don't feel like he's been there since.

Then again, it is my favorite single issue he's ever wrote, so maybe I should cut the guy a break. :redface:

[david r]

DDM, I never would have thought that Sebastian Shaw is in-directly responsible for Storm's loss of powers. But in a way, Shaw should be to blame. I'm sure he'd be happy with these events. :evilsmile:

I agree the issue is very deeply written. Forge and Storm's demons come to the light, as they fall in love.

Falconen, The Dire Wraiths were VERY disgusting. Especially that tentacle-thing that sucks the life out of you. I never read Rom so I'm unfamiliar with them until now. The death of agent Phil was gross, as his head just sinks down. Poor fellow.

Imraith, Wow, Barry Windsor Smith became a Top 5 artist for you...from UXM #186? I can see why! Most new artists on X-MEN would want action, Wolverine, action, fighting!! Instead, Smith comes aboard with a Storm-centric issue with 80% talking. I agree that Smith draws a beautiful and elegant Storm. I especially liked the shots of her dead eyes on Page 2. Just staring into space, you can see the pain in her heart, without any words spoken. I'm glad you like it as much as I.

WBE, So #186 is your all-time favorite Chris Claremont issue? We are certainly a long ways from "The Doomsmith Scenario" in UXM #94. His writing style certainly made leaps in 9 years to reach this issue. An impressive feat. And what you say is true about Forge. I'm still not sure about this guy. Can he be trusted? Good call again about Forge and A-Bomb scientists. He does resemble them a bit.

[david r]

Lifedeath: a few more thoughts:

For superhero books, this was a rather adult story. I suspect Storm was suicidal. This is only lightly touched on in UXM #186, but I strongly sense Ororo was right there, on the edge of ending it. Interestingly, notice Ororo NEVER ONCE sheds a tear in the entire story. We never see her cry; when the agony of her loss must have been unbearable. This would show the strength in her heart, in her character.

Perhaps the raging storm outside were all the tears she needed.

I also liked how Chris Claremont explained Ororo's past behavior. His explanation at how detached and aloof she has always been from Day One was Ororo's way of keeping her powers in-check. By keeping her emotions under control, she kept her powers under control. But to everyone else, she came across as emotionless and unapproachable. I think we see the REAL Storm here, maybe for the first time, as she explains her cutting off her hair and abandoning the "Goddess" was the only way she could let her emotions out again. I'm not sure Claremont had to explain all of this, but I give him tremendous credit for delving so deeply in a mere "comic book character". As worstblogever has noted, his dialogue here is deep, searing and adult.

The romantic moments with the 2 main characters was beautifully handled. But I still question how Storm could show these feelings (which she has always REPRESSED) so readily with a stranger. Forge is a complete stranger to her at this juncture. My only explanation is she continues to rebel against her former "identity" (the Goddess) and leaps right into a possible sexual/romantic affair as she has NEVER done before.

I like how Ororo tore into Forge at the end, and saw right through the man. I hope she flies again...

[nikbackm]

The romantic moments with the 2 main characters was beautifully handled. But I still question how Storm could show these feelings (which she has always REPRESSED) so readily with a stranger. Forge is a complete stranger to her at this juncture. My only explanation is she continues to rebel against her former "identity" (the Goddess) and leaps right into a possible sexual/romantic affair as she has NEVER done before.


Isn't this this how most comic book relationships were handled back then? Compare with Xavier and Lilandra for instance, they meet and BAM! instant soul-mates.

It still exists nowadays as well but perhaps to a smaller degree (R'chel and Korvus anyone? :smile:), the reason is most likely the limited amount of panel space available.

[CJ Lentze]

Schuimend, I have noticed Rachel Summers looks very thin, even under-nourished in her X-MEN and New Mutants debuts. I think the future was not kind to her. I really don't know her that well, so I'm hoping that changes with this reading. And, I hope you're not still troubled. It's interesting how we find mirrors of ourselves in fiction and like them for that.Thanks, fortunately that's in the past and I'm pretty optimistic these days. I find that my three favourite characters are favs because I recognise something in them, I think particular characters 'speak' to us more if we're going through something in our lives (or through a state of mind) at that moment, that those characters seem to feel as well in the story, and have the same attitude/sentiments.

[CJ Lentze]

Dizzy D said it about seven months ago in this thread: Barry Windsor-Smith's art sure changed in all these years. Remember that he's the same guy who penciled X-Men issue 53 (1968), the issue featuring Blastaar.

For some reason 'Lifedeath' (and 'Lifedeath 2', for that matter) keeps getting better every time I read it, though I didn't care much for it when I read it for the first time.

What I like most about the story, is that Ororo's loss of her powers is written as something that disables her, as surely as ripping out an arm or leg would have disabled her. And that's basically what happens when the person in question is a mutant, who is one with their powers, other than someone with a super suit or serum. It's not 'Oh, I've lost my powers. Now I'm a regular Jane', no, she's lost something that had been part of her being for half her life, and that had been written on her DNA for her entire life.

That's also what I like about the parallel Forge makes when Storm discovers that he has lost his leg and his hand, and he tells her that he knows what it feels like. At the same time, I can understand why both Forge and Storm herself ask the question 'so now you walk where once you flew. You still have life, so why don't you try make the best of it?' I just like how they depict what it would mean for a mutant to lose their mutant powers, how it affects them, and how a mutant tries to cope with it.

Focus seems to have shifted from Rogue to Storm. Before the ending of the previous issue, it was Rogue who had to cope with power-related problems and was beginning to learn how to deal, now camera's on Storm.

[david r]

nikbackm, You're right that comic book romances are,-- they meet--BANG!!-they're soul mates forever. They don't even kiss....and they're bonded, just like that. It's the nature of the business; we fans aren't going to wait around for the normal ritual of dating and flirting. Still, Ororo didn't know this guy from Adam, and she's acting like she NEVER has before.

Schuimend Mormel, Truer words have never been said. I too respond to X-Men that "connect" with my emotional level. Which is probably why Nightcrawler is my current favorite. I am glad that you are doing better. I've looked at your avatars changing quickly...and wondered if they reflected your current moods. Was I reading too much into it?

As for Barry Windsor-Smith, I completely forgot he pencilled #53. Thanks for the heads-up. Barry's come along way. I think a certain Cimmerian had a BIG hand in that! :wink: As for your comments on #186, I too liked seeing a mutant deal with losing their powers. Storm had arguably the most wondrous, life-enriching powers of all. So naturally.....she loses them. Watching her deal with it, and grow stronger as a result, is painful and entertaining at the same time.

Schuimend, why didn't you like Lifedeath when you 1st read it?

[CJ Lentze]

Schuimend Mormel, Truer words have never been said. I too respond to X-Men that "connect" with my emotional level. Which is probably why Nightcrawler is my current favorite. I am glad that you are doing better. I've looked at your avatars changing quickly...and wondered if they reflected your current moods. Was I reading too much into it?No, this is pretty much true. I tend to just pick a Ray-face that I'm feeling at the moment, sometimes happy, sometimes a bit sad, sometimes angry... I keep coming back to the Billy Tan av from Uncanny 475 because it's not clear whether Ray is smiling or not.Schuimend, why didn't you like Lifedeath when you 1st read it?'Didn't like' is a bit too strongly phrased, but among the other mid-80s Uncanny issues that were almost without exception very action-driven and only 22 pages, this one stood in contrast because it was a character study, double-sized, and had a different artist (I think I had grown accustomed to the book's 'formula'). When I first read it, I thought it was a bit slow and long and I didn't care for romance stories, either. It just took a while before I could appreciate it, but now I love it. Maybe I had to grow up.

[Dagger]

Dagger, I think Kitty Pryde was introduced in 1979. In these early years, she wears this long, kinda curly hair which was popular in the '70s. Finally in 1984, she got a more modern hair-style. Well............more modern for that time.
Nope. Her first appearance is dated January 1980.

[david r]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.187.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #187

"Wraithkill"

Does that cover show Storm's life going from bad to worse? What more is going to HAPPEN to our beloved Goddess?

I assume #187 begins immediately after "Lifedeath", with a peeved Ororo Munroe storming away from Forge's complex. A torrential downpour beats down on her. Ororo has learned Forge created the Neutralizer Gun which stole her mutant powers. She is not a happy person. Meanwhile, the disgusting Dire Wraiths find their way into Forge's building, intent on capturing and "absorbing" the Cheyenne inventor. They want him dead. In the rain, Ororo hesitates and turns to find a Dire Wraith standing right behind her, readying for the kill. It grabs her and the tentacle of death emerges. Ororo throws a leg-kick and runs back to Eagle Plaza. Inside the building, she grabs a dead security guard's gun and begins blasting the alien intruders. She is soon helped by the elder Cheyenne, Naze. Forge is Nazi's cousin, and Naze needs his help. Forge is the last help for their people, and possibly the human race!

Forge is in his penthouse, as the myriad forms of Dire Wraiths crash in, preparing for the worst. Storm & Naze ready themselves to help him. We learn Wolverine taught Ororo how to use a gun, just in case she ever needed the skill. (This is a great sequence, showcasing Ororo's intense eyes remembering Logan's teaching.) The power is out, so the 2 heroes enter the elevator shaft, but sure enough, an alien "Hellhound"--a dog turned into a Dire Wraith monster--assaults them! Naze blasts it away with his rifle, but Ororo is pulled away by an elevator cable. Ororo escapes, and smiles at the rush of adrenaline and excitement! Ororo makes her way to the roof, as the storm has turned to snow. She battles more Dire Wraiths in an intense hand-to-hand fight! After a long struggle, Storm is reunited with Forge within the sprawling building. In one cool scene, a Dire Wraith switches Ororo's appearance with his, and Forge does not know who is the true Storm. He still blasts the Dire Wraith, saying he had to use abilities he hasn't used in 10 years. (Magic??)

They are reunited with Naze, just as Rogue and Colossus burst in to help them!! A huge group of Dire Wraiths attack, but are in fact mere illusion, to confuse our heroes. Colossus is nearly absorbed by a Dire Wraith as it's tentacle comes perilously close to his forehead. Meanwhile, Naze mysteriously enters some private sanctum of Forge's, called the "Eagle's Nest". Naze mentions his power is almost beyond comprehension, and begins shooting "lightning/energy" from his fingertips. What follows, we do not witness. Outside, the battle commences until Forge creates an illusion of Rom and his paramour, Starshine. They are fake, but the illusions vanish, only the true few Dire Wraiths remain. The X-Men crush them. Forge has won the day. Or has he .....as some bizarre black spot appears in mid-air, driven by numerous monster-faces. The black "Thing" grabs Storm, Colossus, Rogue and Forge and begins to kill them!

My thoughts: If UXM #186 was dialogue and emotionally-driven, this issue is ACTION-PACKED! The entire issue is one sweat-inducing fight with the gruesome Dire Wraiths inside Forge's mysterious tower complex. Storm kicks some ass, even without her mutant powers. Naze helps, but definitely makes me wonder about his loyalties with that last sequence. I'm glad to see Rogue seems alright, though I suspect she still holds much guilt over #185. This ish was action-fun on every level. The great quality continues.

[worstblogever]

Storm gets attacked by tentacle monsters.

Not surprisingly, this wouldn't be the last time either. Of course, when it's Callisto in a hot tub, it's a totally different scenario. :rolleyes:

[Falconen]

This is where, Chris Claremont started to imply that Ororo had other abilities, other than her Mutant and Thieving skills, but was stopped by Editorial. She saw through the Dire Wraith illusions fairly easily, and she hasn't had any formal training with magic. She seems to be enjoying the physical aspects of the fight as well. Something akin to what Yukio would.

Next we get some Amanda and Illyana! I hope this added mystical might assists the X-Men vs. these Evil Dire Wraiths!

[Pro]

Naze helps, but definitely makes me wonder about his loyalties with that last sequence.

If i recall correctly it wasn't dealt with right there and then but Naze's magic had some dire consequences in future stories. Let's say he opened himself up to something far worse than what he tried to prevent that day.

[david r]

Falconen, You say that Chris Claremont wanted to show Ororo using magical abilities? And Marvel stopped him? Because that would tie into the Storm we saw in the Magik limited series; she only had magic to use against her enemies.

I agree with you that she enjoys the physical fight. She isn't very afraid of death, with a few exceptions. In just 2 issues, we've REALLY focused on Ororo Munroe!

Pro, I was a little surprised by what Naze is doing. The look on his face in the Eagle's Next--his snarl--does not look friendly. I now question whether he is there to help Forge at all, or has his own plans.

[heretic]

Lifedeath: a few more thoughts:

The romantic moments with the 2 main characters was beautifully handled. But I still question how Storm could show these feelings (which she has always REPRESSED) so readily with a stranger. Forge is a complete stranger to her at this juncture. My only explanation is she continues to rebel against her former "identity" (the Goddess) and leaps right into a possible sexual/romantic affair as she has NEVER done before.

You know what, I mentioned it elsewhere and perhaps it is all in my head... but I wonder how much of the Forge/Storm thing (as well written as it was, it did pop out of nowhere and was very much fastracked in a way that even the Scott/Maddie thing was not) was due to pressure from above after the night out with Yukio.

Read ahead to UXM Annual 11 if you consider me totally off base.

Not a betting man, but there may be a memo in Mr. Claremont's private papers from ca. 1983 to the effect of "Get Storm a boyfriend, now."

HTG

[david r]

You know what, I mentioned it elsewhere and perhaps it is all in my head... but I wonder how much of the Forge/Storm thing (as well written as it was, it did pop out of nowhere and was very much fastracked in a way that even the Scott/Maddie thing was not) was due to pressure from above after the night out with Yukio.

I recently read that "night out with Storm & Yukio" and didn't find any lesbian hints there. People can infer what they want to, but 2 females spending time together doesn't always lead to lesbian tendencies.

Read ahead to UXM Annual 11 if you consider me totally off base.

I will read it and look for more clues. :smile:

I agree with you about Forge just popping in from nowhere....and Ororo out-of-character for falling for a stranger. But then Ororo's head is pretty messed up at the moment.

[DDM]

Pro, I was a little surprised by what Naze is doing. The look on his face in the Eagle's Next--his snarl--does not look friendly. I now question whether he is there to help Forge at all, or has his own plans.

Reread the scene again. Lots of stuff is happening. For instance, Ororo & Forge feel Naze's death when the Dire Wraith kills him (hinting at Storm's magical potential again). From this point, "Naze" is dead. The false Naze summons a powerful mystical presence to sacrifice all on the Earth. Who is he? This powerful mystical presence kills the Naze Dire Wraith & takes over his body for its own purposes. Like the Dire Wraith who assumed his form, this powerful presence has the powers of Naze in this corporeal form for the time being.

[david r]

DDM, I haven't read that part yet. But my question is: WHAT was Naze doing in the Eagle's Nest in the first place?

[DDM]

DDM, I haven't read that part yet. But my question is: WHAT was Naze doing in the Eagle's Nest in the first place?

Originally, he was trying to persuade Forge about his destiny Forge wants to reject. However, Naze was killed by a Dire Wraith in this issue & the false Naze summoned the powerful mystical presence. It's all in Uncanny X-Men #187.

[david r]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.188.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #188

"Legacy of the Lost"

1st appearance: the Adversary

Another awesome issue in an incredible era of the X-Men. But judging from the faces of our mutants on that cover......I'm not sure they'd agree with me!! :eek:

The scary battle continues from #187, with Storm, Colossus, Forge and Rogue all captured by some weirdo "Shadowbeings"---spawned by those ROM aliens the Dire Wraiths! Storm shoots off Forge's prosthetic leg, so he can escape the black monstrosity. He runs on one leg and escapes. Meanwhile, his uncle, Naze, is in the Eagle's Nest, and attempting to contact some "unknown entity." Naze has been absorbed by a Dire Wraith. Within the Eagle's Nest, fiery eyes appear, looking at Naze, and a voice says "Foolish mortal. You ask for what I do not give...and offer that which I already possess. Your form is well-known to me, Naze, shaman ofthe Cheyenne--we have met and fought before---yet your soul, I see, is changed. It is alien. No matter. Now both are mine." Naze collapses to the ground.

Soon the battle is joined by Nightcrawler and Amanda Sefton-- whom Kurt Wagner has teleported right out of an airplane! Amanda's sorcery is used against the Dire Wraiths! Amanda frees the imprisoned X-Men from the Shadowbeings, but soon Rogue transforms into a Dire Wraith, too! Illyana Rasputin also hits the scene on a Stepping Disc. Illyana dons her SoulSword and her eldritch armor apperas on her left arm. She frees Rogue from the enchantment, with one swipe of the magical sword! Amanda creates an "energy web", keeping more & more Dire Wraith monsters from entering. Forge and Nightcrawler teleport out onto the roof, and discover one lone Dire Wraith left. Forge shoots him. The battle is at last, over. But Forge's penthouse is in ruins. Illyana lays hurt, but reasonably well. Her brother, Peter, learns she is a sorceress for the first time. Peter does not seem troubled by it, and embraces his sister. Forge locates Naze, barely alive in the darkened Eagle's Nest. Storm points a gun at Forge, but doesn't fire. She says they will meet again. But he may regret it.

Meanwhile, in the Bermuda Triangle, Lee Forrester's tugboat, Arcadia, runs across an individual about to be eaten by a Great White shark. Lee dives in and rescue the drowning man. To her shock, it is Magneto, barely alive. (This must be how he survived Warlock's destruction of Asteroid M in New Mutants #21. Back at Xavier's, Storm, Kurt, Colossus and Charles Xavier are in the study, having a heated discussion. Kurt is furious that the United States government maimed Storm. He questions whether this whole struggle is worth it. Kurt says, "Does that sound selfish?! Well, I feel I've earned the right--we all have! Looks at us, Professor--of the X-Men you gathered, Banshee and Storm, mained--Thunderbird killed! JEAN GREY KILLED!! Where will it END?!" Rachel Summers telepathically hears this, and bursts into the room, sending psi-bolts against the heroes! Rachel is shocked beyond words at learning her mother, Jean Grey, is dead in this reality. Charles Xavier tries to reason with her, and Rachel telepathically lets them all "see" her Days of Future Past world. Kurt, Amanda and Illyana riddled with bullets, the mansion blown to bits by soldiers. Professor Xavier blasted to death in his wheelchair. Mutants in concentration camps. And the last remnants of the X-Men (Wolverine, Storm & Colossus) killed in the Baxter Building by Sentinels---taken from UXM #141-142.

Back in the present, each mutant is shocked by what they hear. Tears stream from Charles Xavier's eyes, as he realizes his Dream became ashes in this alternate world. But then Rachel says this team of X-Men must not give up. The Dream must carry on. The X-Men never lost hope, even when Charles was killed. Because of the X-Men, the Dream did NOT die. Rachel begs Kurt to reconsider quitting...and Kurt turns and says "Very well, Professor--for the Dream". Charles thanks him, and they all hug Kurt and are glad he is staying.

My thoughts: This issue rocked on pretty much every level. The sweat-inducing battle with the Dire Wraiths was great, especially with Illyana & Amanda using their magic to help. The introduction of a "mystery villain". The future of Naze?? Forge & Storm still having unfinished business. But I especially liked Nightcrawler and his doubts. Kurt has always been the most optimistic X-Man, but Storm's trauma made him question Xavier's Dream. In honesty, that sequence reminded me a tad of God Loves, Man Kills finale. Only now Nightcrawler questions whether they should continue. Rachel Summers makes QUITE an entrance!! Her nightmarish-world makes me wonder if that is where the X-Men's world is headed. There was just a lot of meat-on-the-bone in this issue, that I will spend many a future-hour examining. This series is on a roll. Another classic issue, IMO.

[Dr. Ghost]

i'm almost caught up to the issues in here!:smile:

anyway, i have a question, two actually:
i'm on issue 151 of x-men, but two issues before that, cyclops is stranded on an island and he makes a blindfold out of his shirt so that his optic beams won't go haywire.

i remember that his visor was the only thing that could keep that in check, because there was an issue way back that showed his beams seeping out of his eyes, even though he had them closed.

did he gain more control over them as he got older?

and is lockheed first mentioned in pryde's story in issue 153?

[CJ Lentze]

i'm almost caught up to the issues in here!:smile:

anyway, i have a question, two actually:
i'm on issue 151 of x-men, but two issues before that, cyclops is stranded on an island and he makes a blindfold out of his shirt so that his optic beams won't go haywire.

i remember that his visor was the only thing that could keep that in check, because there was an issue way back that showed his beams seeping out of his eyes, even though he had them closed.

did he gain more control over them as he got older?

and is lockheed first mentioned in pryde's story in issue 153?1): I think it was in issue twenty-something that Scott thinks to himself that he could now keep his optic blasts from bursting past his eyelids, by keeping his eyes closed shut; he couldn't do that in the earliest issues. I believe it's in issue 29 (vs the Super-Adaptoid), though that's also where he discovers that the destructive power of his blasts has increased as well. Scott is using the blindfold on the desert island to help keep his eyes shut because it would take too much concentration to consciously keep his eyes shut tight. Of course, there's the issue that, even under the blindfold, his eyelids could relax, allowing his blasts to burst out, but this is where suspension of disbelief comes in.

2): Yes, 'Kitty's Fairytale' is the first time a dragon called Lockheed appears. The dragon in the story was modeled after the Blackbird, which was built by Lockheed, hence the name. So it could be said that Kitty named the little dragon after the dragon from her own bedtime story. And indirectly after the X-Men's Blackbird- which itself sported the nickname 'Kitty's Dragon' for the briefest of times (see the Sidri attack).

[worstblogever]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.188.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #188

"Legacy of the Lost"

1st appearance: the Adversary

Another awesome issue in an incredible era of the X-Men. But judging from the faces of our mutants on that cover......I'm not sure they'd agree with me!! :eek:

The scary battle continues from #187, with Storm, Colossus, Forge and Rogue all captured by some weirdo "Shadowbeings"---spawned by those ROM aliens the Dire Wraiths! Storm shoots off Forge's prosthetic leg, so he can escape the black monstrosity. He runs on one leg and escapes. Meanwhile, his uncle, Naze, is in the Eagle's Nest, and attempting to contact some "unknown entity." Naze has been absorbed by a Dire Wraith. Within the Eagle's Nest, fiery eyes appear, looking at Naze, and a voice says "Foolish mortal. You ask for what I do not give...and offer that which I already possess. Your form is well-known to me, Naze, shaman ofthe Cheyenne--we have met and fought before---yet your soul, I see, is changed. It is alien. No matter. Now both are mine." Naze collapses to the ground.

Soon the battle is joined by Nightcrawler and Amanda Sefton-- whom Kurt Wagner has teleported right out of an airplane! Amanda's sorcery is used against the Dire Wraiths! Amanda frees the imprisoned X-Men from the Shadowbeings, but soon Rogue transforms into a Dire Wraith, too! Illyana Rasputin also hits the scene on a Stepping Disc. Illyana dons her SoulSword and her eldritch armor apperas on her left arm. She frees Rogue from the enchantment, with one swipe of the magical sword! Amanda creates an "energy web", keeping more & more Dire Wraith monsters from entering. Forge and Nightcrawler teleport out onto the roof, and discover one lone Dire Wraith left. Forge shoots him. The battle is at last, over. But Forge's penthouse is in ruins. Illyana lays hurt, but reasonably well. Her brother, Peter, learns she is a sorceress for the first time. Peter does not seem troubled by it, and embraces his sister. Forge locates Naze, barely alive in the darkened Eagle's Nest. Storm points a gun at Forge, but doesn't fire. She says they will meet again. But he may regret it.

Meanwhile, in the Bermuda Triangle, Lee Forrester's tugboat, Arcadia, runs across an individual about to be eaten by a Great White shark. Lee dives in and rescue the drowning man. To her shock, it is Magneto, barely alive. (This must be how he survived Warlock's destruction of Asteroid M in New Mutants #21. Back at Xavier's, Storm, Kurt, Colossus and Charles Xavier are in the study, having a heated discussion. Kurt is furious that the United States government maimed Storm. He questions whether this whole struggle is worth it. Kurt says, "Does that sound selfish?! Well, I feel I've earned the right--we all have! Looks at us, Professor--of the X-Men you gathered, Banshee and Storm, mained--Thunderbird killed! JEAN GREY KILLED!! Where will it END?!" Rachel Summers telepathically hears this, and bursts into the room, sending psi-bolts against the heroes! Rachel is shocked beyond words at learning her mother, Jean Grey, is dead in this reality. Charles Xavier tries to reason with her, and Rachel telepathically lets them all "see" her Days of Future Past world. Kurt, Amanda and Illyana riddled with bullets, the mansion blown to bits by soldiers. Professor Xavier blasted to death in his wheelchair. Mutants in concentration camps. And the last remnants of the X-Men (Wolverine, Storm & Colossus) killed in the Baxter Building by Sentinels---taken from UXM #141-142.

Back in the present, each mutant is shocked by what they hear. Tears stream from Charles Xavier's eyes, as he realizes his Dream became ashes in this alternate world. But then Rachel says this team of X-Men must not give up. The Dream must carry on. The X-Men never lost hope, even when Charles was killed. Because of the X-Men, the Dream did NOT die. Rachel begs Kurt to reconsider quitting...and Kurt turns and says "Very well, Professor--for the Dream". Charles thanks him, and they all hug Kurt and are glad he is staying.

My thoughts: This issue rocked on pretty much every level. The sweat-inducing battle with the Dire Wraiths was great, especially with Illyana & Amanda using their magic to help. The introduction of a "mystery villain". The future of Naze?? Forge & Storm still having unfinished business. But I especially liked Nightcrawler and his doubts. Kurt has always been the most optimistic X-Man, but Storm's trauma made him question Xavier's Dream. In honesty, that sequence reminded me a tad of God Loves, Man Kills finale. Only now Nightcrawler questions whether they should continue. Rachel Summers makes QUITE an entrance!! Her nightmarish-world makes me wonder if that is where the X-Men's world is headed. There was just a lot of meat-on-the-bone in this issue, that I will spend many a future-hour examining. This series is on a roll. Another classic issue, IMO.

The question is, did this issue have "too much"?

Okay, we wrap up the battle with the Dark Wraiths. That's all good and fine. But we also have:

-The debut of a new mystery villain, in the Adversary.

-The return of Magneto, in a most unexpected place (and soon to find those lovin' arms of Lee Forrester).

- Colossus learns Ilyana is a sorceress.

Those three things are all heavy, but then you also get the fervent, emotionaly speech from Nightcrawler, and all the X-Men learn the truth of what the future may hold in Rachel Summers "Days of Future Past" reality...

I mean... wow. That's a lot for one issue. If I had to pick one issue of X-Men for somebody to read to sell the franchise to them, this wouldn't be the one, I'm afraid. There's way too much happening with little reference, other than the classic editorial caption boxes. :redface:

Nice for the initiated, though.

[CJ Lentze]

Reread the scene again. Lots of stuff is happening. For instance, Ororo & Forge feel Naze's death when the Dire Wraith kills him (hinting at Storm's magical potential again). From this point, "Naze" is dead. The false Naze summons a powerful mystical presence to sacrifice all on the Earth. Who is he? This powerful mystical presence kills the Naze Dire Wraith & takes over his body for its own purposes. Like the Dire Wraith who assumed his form, this powerful presence has the powers of Naze in this corporeal form for the time being.Poor Nazé. He gets possessed twice in a span of two issues. I like to think that the moment of death/wraithisation for Nazé is on the page where he shoots at the Wraiths hiding in the dark, then yells 'Hokahey' (which I've read is a Sioux exclamation, and not Cheyenne), after which he says that though their numbers are small they will prevail, which may refer to the Cheyenne as well as the Dire Wraiths, except maybe if the latter come in swarms or something. It probably happens later (on the page with the collective scream), but I like the idea of not being certain when the transition from friend to foe takes place. My thoughts: This issue rocked on pretty much every level. The sweat-inducing battle with the Dire Wraiths was great, especially with Illyana & Amanda using their magic to help. The introduction of a "mystery villain". The future of Naze?? Forge & Storm still having unfinished business. But I especially liked Nightcrawler and his doubts. Kurt has always been the most optimistic X-Man, but Storm's trauma made him question Xavier's Dream. In honesty, that sequence reminded me a tad of God Loves, Man Kills finale. Only now Nightcrawler questions whether they should continue. Rachel Summers makes QUITE an entrance!! Her nightmarish-world makes me wonder if that is where the X-Men's world is headed. There was just a lot of meat-on-the-bone in this issue, that I will spend many a future-hour examining. This series is on a roll. Another classic issue, IMO.I can't add anything to that, the second half of this issue was very emotional. There's some strong commentary in there -where Nightcrawler isn't criticising Xavier's ideals/mission, as much as he becomes Chris Claremont's voice in one panel- that's when he says 'We have split the atom, we have traveled to the moon, yet not too long ago, people wanted to drive a stake through my heart because they thought I was a demon.'

This issue also featured a letter by one David Peabody, who wrote that he found strength in reading about Nightcrawler, and his, indeed, generally optimistic view on the world around him and his acceptance of his own appearance. David goes on to say that he's no stranger to being bullied and cast out for his appearance. In light of this, I think it becomes all the more important that Kurt finally didn't give up in this issue to quit the X-Men, and was instead convinced to give it another shot. I also much enjoyed Alison Weisner's 'Xavier Academy Fight Song' on the same letters' page.

EDIT: There was actually a lot more about this issue, but for lack of space I would only like to add that the part where Colossus assures Illyana that he isn't disturbed by her identity as a sorceress, and tells her she's the loveliest girl in the world, was very, very touching.

Since this issue mentions the Wolverine/Kitty Pryde limited series, I suppose you'll be reviewing that one in this thread soon, david?

[CJ Lentze]

The question is, did this issue have "too much"?
(...)
I mean... wow. That's a lot for one issue. If I had to pick one issue of X-Men for somebody to read to sell the franchise to them, this wouldn't be the one, I'm afraid. There's way too much happening with little reference, other than the classic editorial caption boxes. :redface:

Nice for the initiated, though.The chaotic feel of the issue may also be because it's broken in two parts. And it turns things around because the big battle scene is the first part of the issue, where normally it's the final part.

The new mystery villain may have been a bit much coming on top of Gyrich and Cooper's Project Wideawake and the Dire Wraiths. The return of Magneto, however, was slipped in quite niftily, as an 'update' on a major villain (similar to the panels where he was recovering on Asteroid M before the Proteus story).

On a related note, does anyone consider issues 185-188 a true 'four-parter'? I've never heard anyone call it that. The Dire Wraiths are the thread that runs through these issues, but otherwise, each issue has its own unique 'feel'. 185 and 186 are classics in their own right, and read fine without the previous or following issues. 187 was the Dire Wraith horror/action issue, and then we have this 'Legacy of the Lost'. In a way, the final half of the issue, with Nightcrawler and Rachel, is an epilogue to the story.

Plus, something I'd really like to know (especially since Pro appears to be lurking), how does everyone like John Romita Jr.'s art? I'm no expert on art, but I've noticed that Romita Jr. often draws lines on the cheeks that make it seem like the characters are sucking their cheeks in. Some panels he draws are beautiful, but I think I prefer how he drew the Uncanny X-Men annual 4 and the issues of Uncanny from 176-180-ish to the direction he's going in now. I'd like to read what people think of it.

[wolvie616]

wow,i just finished reading the entire thread, and i must say, wolverine is a bamf:biggrin:

[Seres]

I love the reaction Colossus has to finding out about his sister. CC always made the two of them seem really strong as a family, much more than the Summer brothers ever have done. It was issues like this that made Colossus one of my favourite characters.

[DDM]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.188.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #188

"Legacy of the Lost"

1st appearance: the Adversary

Another awesome issue in an incredible era of the X-Men. But judging from the faces of our mutants on that cover......I'm not sure they'd agree with me!! :eek:

The scary battle continues from #187, with Storm, Colossus, Forge and Rogue all captured by some weirdo "Shadowbeings"---spawned by those ROM aliens the Dire Wraiths! Storm shoots off Forge's prosthetic leg, so he can escape the black monstrosity. He runs on one leg and escapes. Meanwhile, his uncle, Naze, is in the Eagle's Nest, and attempting to contact some "unknown entity." Naze has been absorbed by a Dire Wraith. Within the Eagle's Nest, fiery eyes appear, looking at Naze, and a voice says "Foolish mortal. You ask for what I do not give...and offer that which I already possess. Your form is well-known to me, Naze, shaman ofthe Cheyenne--we have met and fought before---yet your soul, I see, is changed. It is alien. No matter. Now both are mine." Naze collapses to the ground.

Soon the battle is joined by Nightcrawler and Amanda Sefton-- whom Kurt Wagner has teleported right out of an airplane! Amanda's sorcery is used against the Dire Wraiths! Amanda frees the imprisoned X-Men from the Shadowbeings, but soon Rogue transforms into a Dire Wraith, too! Illyana Rasputin also hits the scene on a Stepping Disc. Illyana dons her SoulSword and her eldritch armor apperas on her left arm. She frees Rogue from the enchantment, with one swipe of the magical sword! Amanda creates an "energy web", keeping more & more Dire Wraith monsters from entering. Forge and Nightcrawler teleport out onto the roof, and discover one lone Dire Wraith left. Forge shoots him. The battle is at last, over. But Forge's penthouse is in ruins. Illyana lays hurt, but reasonably well. Her brother, Peter, learns she is a sorceress for the first time. Peter does not seem troubled by it, and embraces his sister. Forge locates Naze, barely alive in the darkened Eagle's Nest. Storm points a gun at Forge, but doesn't fire. She says they will meet again. But he may regret it.

Meanwhile, in the Bermuda Triangle, Lee Forrester's tugboat, Arcadia, runs across an individual about to be eaten by a Great White shark. Lee dives in and rescue the drowning man. To her shock, it is Magneto, barely alive. (This must be how he survived Warlock's destruction of Asteroid M in New Mutants #21. Back at Xavier's, Storm, Kurt, Colossus and Charles Xavier are in the study, having a heated discussion. Kurt is furious that the United States government maimed Storm. He questions whether this whole struggle is worth it. Kurt says, "Does that sound selfish?! Well, I feel I've earned the right--we all have! Looks at us, Professor--of the X-Men you gathered, Banshee and Storm, mained--Thunderbird killed! JEAN GREY KILLED!! Where will it END?!" Rachel Summers telepathically hears this, and bursts into the room, sending psi-bolts against the heroes! Rachel is shocked beyond words at learning her mother, Jean Grey, is dead in this reality. Charles Xavier tries to reason with her, and Rachel telepathically lets them all "see" her Days of Future Past world. Kurt, Amanda and Illyana riddled with bullets, the mansion blown to bits by soldiers. Professor Xavier blasted to death in his wheelchair. Mutants in concentration camps. And the last remnants of the X-Men (Wolverine, Storm & Colossus) killed in the Baxter Building by Sentinels---taken from UXM #141-142.

Back in the present, each mutant is shocked by what they hear. Tears stream from Charles Xavier's eyes, as he realizes his Dream became ashes in this alternate world. But then Rachel says this team of X-Men must not give up. The Dream must carry on. The X-Men never lost hope, even when Charles was killed. Because of the X-Men, the Dream did NOT die. Rachel begs Kurt to reconsider quitting...and Kurt turns and says "Very well, Professor--for the Dream". Charles thanks him, and they all hug Kurt and are glad he is staying.

My thoughts: This issue rocked on pretty much every level. The sweat-inducing battle with the Dire Wraiths was great, especially with Illyana & Amanda using their magic to help. The introduction of a "mystery villain". The future of Naze?? Forge & Storm still having unfinished business. But I especially liked Nightcrawler and his doubts. Kurt has always been the most optimistic X-Man, but Storm's trauma made him question Xavier's Dream. In honesty, that sequence reminded me a tad of God Loves, Man Kills finale. Only now Nightcrawler questions whether they should continue. Rachel Summers makes QUITE an entrance!! Her nightmarish-world makes me wonder if that is where the X-Men's world is headed. There was just a lot of meat-on-the-bone in this issue, that I will spend many a future-hour examining. This series is on a roll. Another classic issue, IMO.

I consider Uncanny X-Men #185-188 one storyline, although there are several subplots within this story which can be confusing for new readers such as the ongoing Rachel Summers storyline, the related subplot introducing the great evil presence who possessed & killed the Dire Wraith Naze, & the Storm subplot about her losing her powers. Uncanny X-Men #185-188 shifts subplots to main storyline: Uncanny X-Men #185 (about Rogue's madness & her dealing with Carol Danvers in her head), Uncanny X-Men #186 (Storm dealing with the loss of her powers), & Uncanny X-Men #187-188 (vs the Dire Wraiths).

The Dire Wraiths are actually genetic off-shoots of Skrulls; therefore, they are genetic cousins of a sort. However, the Skrulls attempted to kill the Dire Wraiths before they fled for the Black Sun Galaxy billions of years ago. The female Dire Wraiths are powerful sorceresses with various powers, but the male Dire Wraiths depend more on technology than magic. The male Dire Wraiths are also at war with the female Dire Wraiths. The male Dire Wraiths can be seen in The Avengers #244-245 around this time of Uncanny X-Men #186-188 besides the main storyline in Rom:

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/05815547774.244.GIF
female Dire Wraith

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/05815547774.245.GIF
male Dire Wraith

I am impressed how Rachel Summers reveals her identity to the X-Men when she discovers Jean Grey, Phoenix, is dead. Her power levels here a hint of things to come. Keep in mind she takes out the X-Men with ease since she ambushes them (even Xavier). I also like that Rachel Summers gives the X-Men a purpose to stay together as a team (similar to what she would do in Excalibur Special Edition #1 a few years later).

[david r]

Dr. Ghost, You're almost caught up! Cool--you must be speed-reading!! :smile: Wait until you reach the Brood saga. It is incredible & one of the longest X-Men epics ever. I'd love to hear what you think of it, okay?

Worstblogever, #188 is filled-to-the-rim with story & action. I like it that way. But you have a point, there may be TOO MUCH happening. But nobody ever said the mutants' world was boring.

Schuimend Mormel, I did read David Peabody's letter and found it touching. I wondered what in his life gave him a connection to Nightcrawler. I think the "outcast" theme of this book resonates with us all. (And "Kitty Pryde and Wolverine" mini?.......it's time to get back to those two, soon. Don'tcha think? The adventures just keep a'coming!)

As for John Romita, Jr. I too have noticed changes in his art style. Kurt's face looks more "European" to me, somehow. And he is drawing in a more "block-style", reminiscient of Jack Kirby. You know, how Kirby drew things that look blocky. I still like his work here. But Romita was keeping his deadlines on this book, which wasn't easy, as the last few artists were late on deadlines. It is likely Romita had to work fast and that affected his work.

Wolvie616, I hope you liked the thread. I think Wolverine was a BAMF! at first, but he's evolved into a fascinating and rich character.

Seres, I never doubted that Peter Rasputin would accept his sister's new powers. Rasputin has a good soul, and knows it is not Illyana's fault what was done to her. Chris Claremont writes them both well.

DDM, huh...I didn't know the Dire Wraiths were off-shoots of the Skrulls. Never read Rom. Or those Avengers issues. They certainly were formidable foes. Thanks for the info. As for the young Rachel Summers, she took out the X-Men nearly by herself!! I cannot believe the daughter of Jean Grey is in this book. I expect BIG Things to come from her.

[worstblogever]

Regarding the link between Dire Wraiths and Skrulls... this from the Marvel Directory's "Skrull" entry:

http://www.marveldirectory.com/alienraces/skrull.htm


The Skrulls are an extraterrestrial semi humanoid race who have created a vast interstellar empire, the oldest known such empire still in existence, within the galaxy known on Earth as the Andromeda Galaxy, or M-31. Skrulls are basically reptilian but have certain mammalian characteristics such as hair and (in females) mammary glands. Newborn are hatched from eggs but are nursed by their mother. Skrulls have life spans of about 210 Earth years. An average Skrull is about as strong as an average Earth human being of the same physical age, height, and build who engages in the same amount of exercise. However, while many Skrulls have natural heights and weights that are the same as those of ordinary Earth people, a considerable percentage of the Skrullian race is much shorter than most Earth human beings. Skrulls generally range between 4 ft. 6 in. and 6 ft. 4 in. in height.

The Skrull race originated on the planet Skrullos in the Drox system in the Andromeda Galaxy hundreds of millions of years ago. Skrullos apparently has an atmosphere and gravitational conditions similar to those of Earth, inasmuch as Skrulls have proved able to live on Earth without difficulty.

While the Skrulls were still in their early stages of evolutionary developments, the Celestials, a star-spanning race of genetic engineers, landed on Skrullos and selected a number of natives upon whom to experiment. With one sample group, the Celestials affected a series of genes related to longevity, and thereby created Skrullian equivalents to Earth's Eternals. With another group, the Celestials tested for genetic stability and diversity, and created the Skrullian counterparts to Earth's Deviants. (Note: According to Ghaur, priestlord of Earth's Deviants, a single Celestial, the socalled "Dreaming Celestial," was responsible for the creation of Earth's Deviants and was punished by other Celestials for doing so. It is as yet unknown whether the creation of the Skrullian Deviants was the work of the Dreaming Celestial alone, or of other Celestials as well or apart from him.) In a third group the Celestials implanted a gene series, which would permit rapid benevolent mutation under the right conditions when the species matured. This group, its genetic modifications latent, remained the Skrullian "Normals." After performing their genetic experiments, the Celestials left Skrullos.

There were either two separate Deviant races of Skrulls, or else the Deviant Skrulls evolved into two separate races. The Deviant Skrulls proved to be able to change their shapes, began to dominate the planet, and eventually eradicated both the Eternal and Normal branches of their species. (This is in marked contrast with Earth's human race, another subject of Celestial experimentation, in which the Normal branch continued to dominate the species.)

Later, the majority race of shape-changing Skrulls sought to exterminate the minority Deviant Skrull race, who are today known as the Dire Wraiths. The majority of the Skrulls regarded the Wraiths as a threat to them. However, through sorcerous means the Dire Wraiths escaped to the so-called Dark Nebula, and did not clash with the "true" Skrull race until relatively recent times. (Apart from this description of the origin of the Skrull race, all information in this entry pertains only to the "true" Skrull race, or, in other words, the Deviant Skrulls other than the Dire Wraiths.)

All "true" Skrulls possessed the Deviant gene series which endows them with the ability to alter their size, shape, and color through mental concentration. (Some of Earth's Deviants have the same ability, but to a far more limited extent due to the differences in basic genetic material between the two races.) A Skrull could mentally cause the unstable molecules that comprise his or her body to become pliant, enabling him or her to assume other forms through muscular expansion and contraction. Once a new shape had been assumed, it took a conscious act of will for a Skrull to assume another form or to revert to his or her natural form. Hence, Skrulls did not lose their assumed forms spontaneously when asleep or unconscious. Skrulls only took on the appearance of an object or person and did not take on any of that objects or person's characteristics apart from that. For example, if a Skrull had imitated a metal box, he or she would not actually have become metal or have metal's characteristic hardness Similarly, if a Skrull had imitated the form of an exceptionally brilliant or strong person, the Skrull would not have acquired that person's strength or intellectual ability. There was a limit to the size of the object or person a Skrull could imitate. The average Skrull could not distend his or her mass any more than 1.5 times as large a volume as his or her original volume, nor could he or she contract his or her mass any more than .75 a volume as his or her original.

Saw they mentioned this in last week's "SKRULLS!" Marvel Handbook that came out, too. There was an entry in it for the Dire Wraiths.

[Shade101]

I'll be joining in the issue discussions from this point on. Hopefully I can keep up, :redface:

[david r]

Worstblogever, Thank you for that Skrull/Dire Wraiths info.:smile: Someone has put a LOT of thought into the Skrulls! So the Dire Wraiths are basically.....mutants too?

Shade101, I hope you do keep up. Who is your favorite X-character?

[david r]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/46211489884.1.GIF

Kitty Pryde and Wolverine #1

"Lies"

1st appearance: Ogun

The dynamic duo of Kitty Pryde & the canucklehead--at long last. I like how KITTY'S name comes first in the title! How is Kitty feeling after Peter Rasputin broke up with her in UXM #183? I was wanting to find out...

It's been a week since Colossus broke up with Kitty. She has gone on a leave-of-absence following this, emotionally hurt and needing space from Peter. She has been staying at her father, Carmen Pryde's, home near Chicago, Illinois. Mostly, she has stayed in her room. We learn the tears have finally run out. And she is now venturing out into the wintry snow of Illinois (though it's summer in UNCANNY?) Kitty's parents are newly divorced, and she is still getting over that. She seems to like her father more. She is visiting him at his work--a bank. Kitty stumbles into some Japanese thugs who seem to be harrassing her father. Something is going terribly wrong. Carmen tells his daughter these men are "representatives" of the corporation which recently purchased his bank. The man man is Mr. Ogun, who smokes a cig in a cigarette-holder, and watches Kitty with the same deadly look Wolverine did in their introduction. Kitty Pryde does not like ANY OF THEM.

The hostile looking "gentleman" have made Carmen an offer he can't refuse, and he's on his way to Tokyo, Japan, to meet with the head honcho himself. Carmen advises Kitty to return to Charles Xavier's School, and gives her money to do so. He is then escorted out of the bank by the rough-looking men. Kitty Pryde is NOT going to leave her father in danger, and she takes a taxi to the airport and phases herself onto an airplane---headed for Tokyo! She arrives in Japan and phases out of the plane. She walks the crowded streets of Tokyo. We learn Charles Xavier mentally taught her Japanese already (stretching credibility here!) She makes her way to the Corporation's huge building, and phases inside. She tries to sleep on a couch, but a cleaning woman finds her! The security guard bursts in and begins firing at her---Kitty is shocked by the rough treatment, and phases thru the bullets and escapes outside!

A raging storm is now blanketing nighttime Tokyo, and Kitty is alone in an unknown city, with little money. She begins to get sick and catches a fever. She tries to phase through an ATM machine and steal money, but an alarm sounds and she flees---losing all the $$$$. Kitty then falls into a freezing sewer below the street, and is carried away. Once she makes it out, she crawls into an alleyway and sleeps. Cold & miserable. The next day, she attempts to call Xavier's collect, and Wolverine answers the telephone. Kitty is ashamed of her situation (and robbing the ATM) and quickly hangs up! She runs confused back to the Corporation's headquarters and phases inside. Hiding in the next room, she overhears her father, Carmen Pryde, talking to an elderly, well-dressed Japanese man. Carmen is agreeing to let this illegal corporation launder money through his bank. Kitty is shocked!!

My thoughts: The debut issue of a new limited-series, and here Wolverine takes a back-seat to Ms. Pryde. #1 was 100% Kitten. She certainly has gotten herself into a pickle. Kitty shows her independent streak, trying to solve the mystery of her father without the X-Men's aid. Which may have not been a great idea! She runs from one misadventure to the next here! And I kind of wish we'd heard more about her feelings concerning Colossus--it barely got mentioned. I notice her hair has grown MUCH longer than it was in Uncanny X-Men. We're back to the long, curly hair but it's much fuller now than before. And I felt the reveal that Kitty knows Japanese fluently is stretching credibility a bit. Xavier is good...but not that good. Anyway, this was a nice first issue.....Wolverine has a brief cameo!

[worstblogever]

Worstblogever, Thank you for that Skrull/Dire Wraiths info.:smile: Someone has put a LOT of thought into the Skrulls! So the Dire Wraiths are basically.....mutants too?

Shade101, I hope you do keep up. Who is your favorite X-character?

Dire Wraiths = Skrull mutants?

Hmm... interesting idea. But no, they introduced Skrull mutants already. Xavier taught them. Fiz and all of Kadre K are Skrull Mutants.

Dire Wraiths would be something else entirely. Like the Neo. Heh.

[worstblogever]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/46211489884.1.GIF

Kitty Pryde and Wolverine #1

"Lies"

1st appearance: Ogun

The dynamic duo of Kitty Pryde & the canucklehead--at long last. I like how KITTY'S name comes first in the title! How is Kitty feeling after Peter Rasputin broke up with her in UXM #183? I was wanting to find out...

It's been a week since Colossus broke up with Kitty. She has gone on a leave-of-absence following this, emotionally hurt and needing space from Peter. She has been staying at her father, Carmen Pryde's, home near Chicago, Illinois. Mostly, she has stayed in her room. We learn the tears have finally run out. And she is now venturing out into the wintry snow of Illinois (though it's summer in UNCANNY?) Kitty's parents are newly divorced, and she is still getting over that. She seems to like her father more. She is visiting him at his work--a bank. Kitty stumbles into some Japanese thugs who seem to be harrassing her father. Something is going terribly wrong. Carmen tells his daughter these men are "representatives" of the corporation which recently purchased his bank. The man man is Mr. Ogun, who smokes a cig in a cigarette-holder, and watches Kitty with the same deadly look Wolverine did in their introduction. Kitty Pryde does not like ANY OF THEM.

The hostile looking "gentleman" have made Carmen an offer he can't refuse, and he's on his way to Tokyo, Japan, to meet with the head honcho himself. Carmen advises Kitty to return to Charles Xavier's School, and gives her money to do so. He is then escorted out of the bank by the rough-looking men. Kitty Pryde is NOT going to leave her father in danger, and she takes a taxi to the airport and phases herself onto an airplane---headed for Tokyo! She arrives in Japan and phases out of the plane. She walks the crowded streets of Tokyo. We learn Charles Xavier mentally taught her Japanese already (stretching credibility here!) She makes her way to the Corporation's huge building, and phases inside. She tries to sleep on a couch, but a cleaning woman finds her! The security guard bursts in and begins firing at her---Kitty is shocked by the rough treatment, and phases thru the bullets and escapes outside!

A raging storm is now blanketing nighttime Tokyo, and Kitty is alone in an unknown city, with little money. She begins to get sick and catches a fever. She tries to phase through an ATM machine and steal money, but an alarm sounds and she flees---losing all the $$$$. Kitty then falls into a freezing sewer below the street, and is carried away. Once she makes it out, she crawls into an alleyway and sleeps. Cold & miserable. The next day, she attempts to call Xavier's collect, and Wolverine answers the telephone. Kitty is ashamed of her situation (and robbing the ATM) and quickly hangs up! She runs confused back to the Corporation's headquarters and phases inside. Hiding in the next room, she overhears her father, Carmen Pryde, talking to an elderly, well-dressed Japanese man. Carmen is agreeing to let this illegal corporation launder money through his bank. Kitty is shocked!!

My thoughts: The debut issue of a new limited-series, and here Wolverine takes a back-seat to Ms. Pryde. #1 was 100% Kitten. She certainly has gotten herself into a pickle. Kitty shows her independent streak, trying to solve the mystery of her father without the X-Men's aid. Which may have not been a great idea! She runs from one misadventure to the next here! And I kind of wish we'd heard more about her feelings concerning Colossus--it barely got mentioned. I notice her hair has grown MUCH longer than it was in Uncanny X-Men. We're back to the long, curly hair but it's much fuller now than before. And I felt the reveal that Kitty knows Japanese fluently is stretching credibility a bit. Xavier is good...but not that good. Anyway, this was a nice first issue.....Wolverine has a brief cameo!


Kitty tries to steal money from an ATM? DIRTY DEEDS! MWA-HA-HA! I never knew that. Huh.

Having Kitty learn Japanese via preconceived measures by Xavier is a bit much, for this issue, but it wouldn't be the first reach CC really stretched the circumstances just to advance a story for a character he wants to use. Although, having Kitty drag along a new potential love interest in Doug Ramsey would've been interesting.

By and large, though, seeing a desperate Ms. Pryde is an interesting take. What would a character do, if they really had to in order to survive without all the trappings of a superhero lifestyle? They're not often poor...

[Pro]

Interesting Skrull info, never knew about the celestial interference in their genetic development.

[Valjean999]

KP and W #1 was Kitty-centric, I know, but the upcoming issues will focus equally, if not more so, on Logan

[CJ Lentze]

david, it's pretty amazing how you can manage to keep up with several 'From the beginning' threads, reading all the issues plus all the minis that spin off from the main storyline. When did you first read this Kitty/Wolvie mini? I only got it last week as a hardcover that happened to come out this year (lucky me!), and I'm reading it now.

[Dr. Ghost]

david, how do you decide which mini-series to read?
are there some you have skipped?

[david r]

WBE, Kitty Pryde indeed steals from an ATM. She spends the rest of #1 having a serious guilt trip over it! WHAT would Charles say?

I found it bittersweet learning Kitty spent a whole week alone in her room, sobbing and crying. If only Kitty knew her lug Peter Rasputin was having second thoughts, shown in Uncanny X-Men #188.

Valjean999, So Logan does get some action soon? I wondered...with Kitty's name coming first in the title, and Chris Claremont's recent push of his female characters...if she would be the main star of this story.

Schuimend Mormel, How do I keep up with all these threads? Hey, I eat and drink this stuff!! :tongue: As for this particular mini-series, I've NEVER read Kitty Pryde & Wolverine before. So it's a new experience for me as well as you. I saw the HC in my shop, but have the actual comics. I hope you post your feelings about it here!!

Dr. Ghost, There haven't been many mini-series so far. Up until 1982, practically none. Since then though, a BIG increase in minis. I try to read & post all the classic, vital ones (Wolverine #1-4 ) as well as ones different and interesting (X-Men & the Micronauts, Marvel Fanfare #1-4.)

I was planning to read the Iceman mini, but after reading a summary of it, I am not going to do that one. I am still on the fence over Beauty and the Beast #1-4. Any positive views on it?

[david r]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/46211489884.2.GIF

Kitty Pryde and Wolverine #2

"Terror"

Things go from bad to worse for our little pun'kin. Kitty Pryde gets in WAY over her head. She is in deep, deep trouble after #2.

#2 of this special limited series begins with Kitty Pryde hiding in the offices of Japanese crimelord Shigematsu. The bad guy and his goons (as well as Kitty's father, Carmen Pryde, ) walk in on her! She flees in terror. Ogun, a young associate of Shigematsu, takes his attention and cuts a deal where his services will be paid for-----if he is given the young gaijin female. Shigematsu agrees to this transaction. Carmen Pryde wants to know what is happening, and Ogun incapacitates him by grabbing his shoulder & arm. Ogun says his daughter is dead to him. Seek her out, and his destruction is certain. Carmen agonizingly agrees.By this time, Kitty herself has phased down several floors of Shigematsu's building, and into the basement. She is exhausted, and sweating from fever. From the dark, Ogun appears wearing a frightening ,red-devil mask, and blows dust into Kitty's face. Down she goes, unconscious!

Meanwhile, Logan is making his way through security at John F. Kennedy Airport. An amusing moment where Logan's adamantium skeleton sets off all sorts of alarms at the metal detectors. (Uh...why isn't Logan & the X-Men on their way to Kitty's aid in a BLACKBIRD?? ) Back in Japan, Kitty awakens in a blackened room. A single light shining down on her head. Ogun appears from the shadows, still wearing an unsettling red-mask (see cover). Ogun swings his long sword at Kitty and proceeds to slice away her clothes. Ogun then chops her long beautiful hair right off. Surely, Kitty is in much pain. Kitty is completely helpless, unable to move at all. Thus, the brainwashing begins!! It must take weeks, but Ogun systematically cuts Kitty's mind down into a child. And raises her back up again, as a disciple of his. Conditioning this "new" Kitty into the ways of martial arts and swords-play. In the end, she seems to lose all touch with her previous life, the X-Men, Colossus, her "self". The darkness, Ogun's torture, drugs all take their toll. Kitty is reborn as an apprentice of Ogun--deadly with karate and swords. She dons the red-mask herself!!

Back in Tokyo, crimeboss Shigematsu and his henchmen enter his office, to discover Wolverine smoking a cigarette and waiting for them. Wolverine means business and slices 'n dices the bodyguards, including two female ones. Logan wants to know the whereabouts of Kitty Pryde, and he's more than willing to end the crimelord's life to get the information. Shigematsu calls Ogun's home. Ogun puts him on hold, and watches a display of his work, as Kitty Pryde--wearing the red-mask--battles and annihilates a group of ninja-fighters. She uses her newly trained martial arts and blade knowledge, as well as her phasing powers, against her opponents. She defeats them all!! She is ready to kill one, when Ogun stops her. Kitty removes the red-mask and grins. Ogun replies there is a gaijin he wants her to kill. An old acquaintance of his (we see a picture of Logan & Ogun together). Kitty shows enthusiasm for murder!!

My thoughts: It is painful to watch 15-year-old Kitty brainwashed by Ogun. He is quite devilish in his abuse of her. I wish there was some mention of the time it took to finish his work on Kitty. As for Wolverine, I liked seeing him make mincemeat of Shigematsu's bodyguards. I'm sure Wolverine will save the day...unless Kitty kills him first!! This series has echoes of Wolvie's first series, with the Japanese setting, but it does feel different so far. The only drawback is Al Milgrom's artwork isn't to my liking, especially.

[Dr. Ghost]

[

Dr. Ghost, There haven't been many mini-series so far. Up until 1982, practically none. Since then though, a BIG increase in minis. I try to read & post all the classic, vital ones (Wolverine #1-4 ) as well as ones different and interesting (X-Men & the Micronauts, Marvel Fanfare #1-4.)

Oh, ok.

Did you cover the Amazing Adventures issues where Beast's physical appearance changes?

[david r]

I didn't cover the Beast's solo stuff, in Amazing Adventures. It felt like it was getting too far off track from the main book. Once the original 5 left, Beast, Angel and Iceman go so far away from the X-Men that it just would have taken too much time reviewing Champions and the like. There has to be a limit, somewhere. :tongue:

[worstblogever]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/46211489884.2.GIF

Kitty Pryde and Wolverine #2

"Terror"

Things go from bad to worse for our little pun'kin. Kitty Pryde gets in WAY over her head. She is in deep, deep trouble after #2.

#2 of this special limited series begins with Kitty Pryde hiding in the offices of Japanese crimelord Shigematsu. The bad guy and his goons (as well as Kitty's father, Carmen Pryde, ) walk in on her! She flees in terror. Ogun, a young associate of Shigematsu, takes his attention and cuts a deal where his services will be paid for-----if he is given the young gaijin female. Shigematsu agrees to this transaction. Carmen Pryde wants to know what is happening, and Ogun incapacitates him by grabbing his shoulder & arm. Ogun says his daughter is dead to him. Seek her out, and his destruction is certain. Carmen agonizingly agrees.By this time, Kitty herself has phased down several floors of Shigematsu's building, and into the basement. She is exhausted, and sweating from fever. From the dark, Ogun appears wearing a frightening ,red-devil mask, and blows dust into Kitty's face. Down she goes, unconscious!

Meanwhile, Logan is making his way through security at John F. Kennedy Airport. An amusing moment where Logan's adamantium skeleton sets off all sorts of alarms at the metal detectors. (Uh...why isn't Logan & the X-Men on their way to Kitty's aid in a BLACKBIRD?? ) Back in Japan, Kitty awakens in a blackened room. A single light shining down on her head. Ogun appears from the shadows, still wearing an unsettling red-mask (see cover). Ogun swings his long sword at Kitty and proceeds to slice away her clothes. Ogun then chops her long beautiful hair right off. Surely, Kitty is in much pain. Kitty is completely helpless, unable to move at all. Thus, the brainwashing begins!! It must take weeks, but Ogun systematically cuts Kitty's mind down into a child. And raises her back up again, as a disciple of his. Conditioning this "new" Kitty into the ways of martial arts and swords-play. In the end, she seems to lose all touch with her previous life, the X-Men, Colossus, her "self". The darkness, Ogun's torture, drugs all take their toll. Kitty is reborn as an apprentice of Ogun--deadly with karate and swords. She dons the red-mask herself!!

Back in Tokyo, crimeboss Shigematsu and his henchmen enter his office, to discover Wolverine smoking a cigarette and waiting for them. Wolverine means business and slices 'n dices the bodyguards, including two female ones. Logan wants to know the whereabouts of Kitty Pryde, and he's more than willing to end the crimelord's life to get the information. Shigematsu calls Ogun's home. Ogun puts him on hold, and watches a display of his work, as Kitty Pryde--wearing the red-mask--battles and annihilates a group of ninja-fighters. She uses her newly trained martial arts and blade knowledge, as well as her phasing powers, against her opponents. She defeats them all!! She is ready to kill one, when Ogun stops her. Kitty removes the red-mask and grins. Ogun replies there is a gaijin he wants her to kill. An old acquaintance of his (we see a picture of Logan & Ogun together). Kitty shows enthusiasm for murder!!

My thoughts: It is painful to watch 15-year-old Kitty brainwashed by Ogun. He is quite devilish in his abuse of her. I wish there was some mention of the time it took to finish his work on Kitty. As for Wolverine, I liked seeing him make mincemeat of Shigematsu's bodyguards. I'm sure Wolverine will save the day...unless Kitty kills him first!! This series has echoes of Wolvie's first series, with the Japanese setting, but it does feel different so far. The only drawback is Al Milgrom's artwork isn't to my liking, especially.

So... let's recap. Carmen Pryde just sold his underage daughter to a Japanese businessman, who comes in a room in a mask, drugs her, slices off all her clothes with a katana, and then chops off her hair as part of a long term brainwashing to make her his own personal slave and assassin.

...Yikes.

I like Ogun as a villain, and his angle and motivation for revenge against Wolverine... but damn, this is a really creepy vibe.

And Carmen Pryde? For those who thought he might not be the nicest guy... this issue is the one that should confirm it for you.

Although, I'm glad they answered the long-standing question about Wolverine and the airport. I think this ended up being a gag they've recycled more than once, where airport security has strip-searched him trying to figure out where the metal is. I can remember seeing it happen in the 90s at some point.

[david r]

So... let's recap. Carmen Pryde just sold his underage daughter to a Japanese businessman, who comes in a room in a mask, drugs her, slices off all her clothes with a katana, and then chops off her hair as part of a long term brainwashing to make her his own personal slave and assassin.

...Yikes.

Agreed. #1 was more cute & silly. #2 was a lot more cut-throat and mean. Quite frankly, I was disturbed about what Ogun does to Kitty here. I was not expecting this. But I wonder.....WHY did Ogun take a liking to Kitty Pryde? It seemed totally random.

Although, I'm glad they answered the long-standing question about Wolverine and the airport. I think this ended up being a gag they've recycled more than once, where airport security has strip-searched him trying to figure out where the metal is. I can remember seeing it happen in the 90s at some point.

It was funny. :biggrin: Though I wished they'd done more with it. I still have to wonder why Logan didn't just call the X-Men & they flew to Japan in the Blackbird?

[CJ Lentze]

Parallel with Illyana, she was taught the black arts by Belasco in his daemonic limbo, Kitty is somehow (magically? mentally?) regressed to childhood and is taught the art of the ninja by Ogun. I'd expect this experience to strengthen the bond of understanding between Kitty and Illyana when she comes back, now that both girls have had this 'upgrade' of sorts, and have dipped neck-deep into pure darkness.

Ogun puts him on hold, and watches a display of his work, as Kitty Pryde--wearing the red-mask--battles and annihilates a group of ninja-fighters. She uses her newly trained martial arts and blade knowledge, as well as her phasing powers, against her opponents. She defeats them all!! She is ready to kill one, when Ogun stops her. Kitty removes the red-mask and grins. Ogun replies there is a gaijin he wants her to kill. An old acquaintance of his (we see a picture of Logan & Ogun together). Kitty shows enthusiasm for murder!!At first it appears that she actually spares everyone, which looks reassuring because it's our Kitty, but then at the end she almost kills one before Ogun stops her. Why did he pick Kitty? He must have seen some potential in her, when she fought the other goons at the beginning of the issue, and I guess it was convenient that he could use her to blackmail her father.



Is this the first time Chris Claremont jumbles words together? I mean on the page where Kitty thinks "Cold badhard under, bright above-- pretty. Lonelyfear emptyhurt inside." This will especially dominate his thought bubbles after the Morlock Massacre, but this is one of the earliest issues I've seen it in. Sometimes it can be cool, but not if it happens too often, and it doesn't work for every character.

[david r]

Parallel with Illyana, she was taught the black arts by Belasco in his daemonic limbo, Kitty is somehow (magically? mentally?) regressed to childhood and is taught the art of the ninja by Ogun. I'd expect this experience to strengthen the bond of understanding between Kitty and Illyana when she comes back, now that both girls have had this 'upgrade' of sorts, and have dipped neck-deep into pure darkness.

I agree, hopefully Illyana Rasputin will open up to Kitty, in a way she hasn't about her sorcerous powers. Assuming here Kitty survives her experience in Japan............

At first it appears that she actually spares everyone, which looks reassuring because it's our Kitty, but then at the end she almost kills one before Ogun stops her.

Judging from Ogun's behavior so far, I think he WOULDN'T have stopped her in the real world. Ogun is a cold-blooded killer. And he wants Kitty to be the same.

Is this the first time Chris Claremont jumbles words together? I mean on the page where Kitty thinks "Cold badhard under, bright above-- pretty. Lonelyfear emptyhurt inside." This will especially dominate his thought bubbles after the Morlock Massacre, but this is one of the earliest issues I've seen it in. Sometimes it can be cool, but not if it happens too often, and it doesn't work for every character.

I think those jumbled words were to describe Kitty's state of mind, at the time. We've seen jumbled words before, especially with this new "Warlock" character in New Mutants. But it's cool you noticed this trend, because another one I've noticed is Claremont's use of a large crowd of people, usually bystanders in the background of a panel, and multiple word balloons to illustrate each person's observations and comments.

[david r]

Kitty and Wolverine:

http://www.comicartfans.com/Images/Category_6434/subcat_43912/Samnee-KittyWolverine.jpg

[CJ Lentze]

I think those jumbled words were to describe Kitty's state of mind, at the time. We've seen jumbled words before, especially with this new "Warlock" character in New Mutants. But it's cool you noticed this trend, because another one I've noticed is Claremont's use of a large crowd of people, usually bystanders in the background of a panel, and multiple word balloons to illustrate each person's observations and comments.Like when the boys on the riverboat were all cheering for Rogue in issue 185? The crowds with multiple word balloons usually have one or two really funny lines in them, the charm of it is that we see a crowd that doesn't have uniform thoughts (as in, they would all think 'mutants are dangerous, get those muties'), but the crowd would disagree with each other and there would be liberal thoughts, conservative thoughts, ignorance, sparks of wisdom, etc. It was funny and it gave unnamed civilians in the X-Men universe a voice.



Who is the Brian who is thanked on the picture of Wolverine and Shadowcat?

[david r]

Like when the boys on the riverboat were all cheering for Rogue in issue 185?

Yes, that's it. Your description of the word balloons and the varying thoughts of strangers fits it to a tee! I couldn't have said it better myself. (I wonder if that is how telepaths hear all that "background noise" of people's voices?)

Who is the Brian who is thanked on the picture of Wolverine and Shadowcat?

I'm not sure. But I liked the picture of Logan & Kitty, so I posted it. :smile:
__________________________________________________ ____________
Taking a step back, here are 2 more thoughts on Uncanny X-Men #188:

1) Seeing Charles Xavier standing and walking confidently, free of his wheelchair and disabiltiy, still takes some doing. Since his new body allows him to walk, I'm glad to see him this way, it still looks strange since he was disabled for so long. I can't explain this well....it just seems odd seeing Professor X standing alongside the X-Men. (I'm glad that yellow costume was put back into the closet! :rolleyes: )

2) Rachel Summers has the potential for LOTS of story and adventure potential! :smile: What she knows of the future, her heritage, her eventual relationship with her father, Scott Summers, how the X-Men who knew Jean Grey will respond to her; how the newer mutants will respond to her, and so on. I hope she gets explored in some depth.

I noticed Professor Xavier sitting with her on a couch, in UXM #185. He can read minds. I wonder what he might gleam from her about the possible future? (Hopefully he'll learn if the Army ever attacks the School.....DON'T stand at a window as an easy target for sharpshooters!) :eek:

[david r]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/46211489884.3.GIF

Kitty Pryde and Wolverine #3

"Death"

I'm a creature of the wild. I hate cities...hate civilization. With all it's idiot rules. Gimme the free, open elemental spaces of my mountains...where a man holds his fate in his own hands. No lies there. No deception, no compromise. So why, I wonder, do I love this land, this city? It's probably the most structured society on Earth, laced tight with centuries of tradition and ritual. Covering every conceivable aspect of public and private life. I was born to one world, but I choose to be part of this other. I'm WOLVERINE."

Thus thinks Wolverine, wearing his cool brown uniform, standing atop a Tokyo building in the night, smoking a cig. As Logan watches this city, a dark figure runs up behind him. It is Yukio, the Japanese assassin that Logan has been linked to lately. Yukio attacks, and Logan parries her strike. A reckless fight takes place on the rooftop, Yukio taking Wolverine's measure. In the end, Logan nearly buries his claws into her neck. Yukio buries her lips onto Logans...and Later, (I wonder what this "later" is implying, eh??) Logan and Yukio lay together on the rooftop. Yukio still desires Logan, but he says Mariko Yashida is still his first love. Logan says he's come to Tokyo to find Kitty Pryde, who has vanished here. Yukio now bids Logan goodbye, as she leaps off the rooftop, saying how she plans to enjoy every second of her "crazy" life. Wolverine makes his way to a temple for a meeting place. He waits in the Japanese garden, alone. But it's an ambush----as arrows rain down on him! One pegs his leg, and Wolverine runs and slashes at the arrows with his claws!

As Logan hides on the temple rooftop, and rips the arrow out of his leg, his attacker sneaks up on him. Wearing Ogun's red-devil mask, the person slashes at Logan with tiger claws hooked to the hands. They slash Wolverine's face, drawing blood. Wolvie cuts the tiger claws off and swings for a killing stroke. But his claws move right through the assassin, making no damage at all! Logan is shocked, as the assassin kicks him off the roof. Wolverine smashes out of the temple, feeling the effects of POISON! The arrow must have been laced with poison! He wanders through a Tokyo street in a daze, and collapses into a dark alley, hiding under garbage and strewn newspaper. Meanwhile, Yukio herself has snuck into the main baddies corporate office. But Shigematsu is not there. However, Yukio discovers Carmen Pryde, Kitty's father, there asleep in a drunken stupor. Before Yukio can awaken him, Shigematsu's HUGE bodyguard, a former sumo wrestler, grabsYukio and the 2 fight as the bodyguard tries to throw her out a window. As the struggle ends, both Yukio and Carmen are thrown out and plummet to their deaths. Yukio grabs hold of a window-washing cart, and hurtles them both thru glass and into an office. They survived, of course Yukio felt a rush from the whole experience.

Back with Wolvie, the red-masked killer locates the dark alleyway, and goes in for the kill. But Wolverine has now recovered, and is not there. He hides on a rooftop, and begins chasing his killer through a whirldwind of Yokyo locations. Through a train depot, and on-through-and under railway trains!! Always Wolverine is just one step behind his mysterious attacker. Finally, their breath-taking flight ends beside a roaring Tokyo bullet train, as the red-mask falls off!! Revealing Kitty Pryde as his would-be killer. Wolverine is taken aback, as Kitty sends her long sword smashing into his chest!! Blood and gore ripping out of Logan's back!!

My thoughts: This was the best issue yet, a dizzying rollercoaster ride with Wolverine on the run through Tokyo. We readers know who his attacker is (thanks to the cover) but it still is thrilling to read Logan ambushed and nearly killed. By none other than Kitty Pryde herself. My one main qualm is HOW could Ogun have brainwashed Kitty so quickly?? There is NO WAY in one night, Kitty could be trained to be as lethal as Wolverine's lifetime of tactical learning. That was my only problem with this issue, which I would rank right up there as a classic issue and on a par with the Wolverine limited series. #3 is that good. (And it was fun to see Yukio again, too!)

[worstblogever]

Agreed about Kitty's fast "education". While she's been given the benefit of being called a genius or a prodigy for her age before, this still is a bit much.

Of course, I've seen Wolverine stories where Ogun possesses people, and he himself controls them as his puppet. Mind you, that was after he was dead... and last I checked he's still alive in this story.

My best no-prize theory at this point in the story would have been, "He used ninja hoodoo. It's magic, we don't need to explain it." Weak as a theory as it might be.

And good for Yukio to show up for meaningless sex. She's just one more thing Logan and Storm have in common. :redface:

[david r]

My best no-prize theory at this point in the story would have been, "He used ninja hoodoo. It's magic, we don't need to explain it." Weak as a theory as it might be.

No! NOT the magic theory again! :biggrin: You never heard Jim Shooter say something like that! I think the creators here should have given Wolverine a week to locate Kitty; thus giving Ogun a chance of brainwashing her. 24 hours just does not cut it.

And good for Yukio to show up for meaningless sex. She's just one more thing Logan and Storm have in common. :redface:

I've noticed several "Some Time Later....." moments when Yukio is around.

[wolvie616]

[/QUOTE]I've noticed several "Some Time Later....." moments when Yukio is around.[/QUOTE]

i wondered when i would find a greater slut than stacy x:biggrin:

stacy x is the one who tried to seduce nightcrawler right:confused:

[pryde15]

I've noticed several "Some Time Later....." moments when Yukio is around.

i wondered when i would find a greater slut than stacy x:biggrin:

stacy x is the one who tried to seduce nightcrawler right:confused:

Amanda Sefton was his girlfriend, and in the issue where Angel is captured by Callisto. We see Kurt & Amanda naked in the hot tub together. So, I will say no.

and you are oblivious.

[Shade101]

Shade101, I hope you do keep up. Who is your favorite X-character?

STORM of course! :biggrin:

[wolvie616]

Amanda Sefton was his girlfriend, and in the issue where Angel is captured by Callisto. We see Kurt & Amanda naked in the hot tub together. So, I will say no.

and you are oblivious.


yes, yes i am:biggrin:

[Valjean999]

I was planning to read the Iceman mini, but after reading a summary of it, I am not going to do that one. I am still on the fence over Beauty and the Beast #1-4. Any positive views on it?[/QUO

Good call on the Iceman mini. It was a waste. And I wouldnt bother with Beauty And The Beast. Nothing major happened.

[david r]

Good call on the Iceman mini. It was a waste. And I wouldnt bother with Beauty And The Beast. Nothing major happened.

I appreciate your help on that. The Iceman mini especially sounded strange. I was hoping for more on that.

[david r]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/46211489884.4.GIF

Kitty Pryde and Wolverine #4

"Rebirth"

After reading #4, all I can say is..........WOW! This little mini-series gets more incredible by the issue. There's a treasure here.

Following #3, in which Kitty Pryde sent her sword straight through Wolverine's heart, we begin with Yukio racing a sports car through a dangerous mountain---in the midst of a roaring storm. Carmen Pryde is present, as well as an unconscious Kitty. And Wolverine--who is BADLY wounded and bleeding profusely from his chest. Carmen nearly is killed by Yukio for complaining too much. As they argue, Kitty awakens and phases out of the car. Yukio chases her thru the winds and rain on a lonely road. Kitty silently karate-chops Yukio as they tussle. Something awful has happened to Kitty!! Yukio gives her a stomach-punch and then a hard punch to the chin. And down Ms. Pryde goes. Their destination is the stronghold of Clan Yashida. Mariko herself is not home,but the doors open for our exhausted heroes. :smile:

Kitty Pryde has been "brainwashed" by a mysterious Japanese man named Ogun. He is both man, and "demon". Is he a mutant? This issue leaves you wondering. Logan is in SERIOUS bad shape, his healing power slowly repairing his heart. He needs rest, but Kitty needs him more. Logan pushes himself to the limits, in trying to break Ogun's control over his teenage partner. Kitty realizes she stabbed Logan & nearly killed him---and feels awful about it. Logan says Ogun's claws are still inside her, and running back to Charles Xavier will not help her escape Ogun's grasp! We learn that Ogun was Logan's "sensei"-- Ogun taught Logan everything he knows?! (Now that is some news!) Logan tells Kitty an ancient Japanese story, about the greatest swordsman in Japanese history--Miyamoto Musashi. How the swordsman came to a bridge, and on the other side was another samurai (Ogun.) They both desired to cross the bridge--but only the "best man" could do it. Both samurais take out their katanas--their swords to do battle to decide which man could cross. After staring into each others eyes for a moment, they both sheathed their katanas, and turned and walked away. So apparently, Ogun is the best swordsman in Japan??

Kitty asks if this means Ogun is IMMORTAL? Logan replies "No one knows for sure." I'm more & more intrigued by this Ogun. But thus begins Logan's attempt to break Kitty Pryde of what Ogun did to her. Several tasks are given to Kitty. Like creating a Japanese Garden by herself; or holdind the Honor Sword of the Clan Yashida outstretched for as long as she can (see cover.) Each of these, she seems to fail. But events in other parts of the mutant world encroach, as Charles Xavier calls Logan on the telephone, and informs him that Storm has lost her powers (in UXM #185.) Worse still, Logan learns his old friend, James MacDonald Hudson--Guardian--is dead.) Logan barely registers the details, as he soon hangs up the phone, puts aside his cane, walks outside into the Japanese night and screams and yells alone on a hilltop, until his eyes burn. Logan's grief over Mac's death is excruciating. But Logan realizes he cannot do anything for his dead friend--or Ororo. He must stay here and help the person who immediately needs him--- Kitty Pryde!

More tests come, like Logan leaving wounded Kitty Pryde in the snows during run through the countryside. Weird snowy weather has come to Japan (following events in Walt Simonson's Thor run) and Kitty sprains her ankle. Logan leaves her to fend for herself. Kitty screams "It isn't fair!" Logan says "Never is. Not for Storm. Not for Jamie. What made you think things'd be different for you? The trick is taking the hand you're dealt an' winning anyway. It's a decision only YOU can make, Katherine." Kitty passes this test, standing and making her way back to the house. Logan can barely stand by the time he reaches it, himself. Soon, Kitty raises the Yashida Blade and is able to hold it for hours. She feels she has passed...and failed. She leaves the blade by the slumbering Logan, and heads to the airport. She plans to return to America and see if Charles Xavier can help. The ending is rather unclear on whether she leaves Japan or not!

My thoughts: Out of the blue...another classic story!! Each issue of this limited series rises another notch on the "Awesome" level. Logan risks his own life to save Kitty Pryde---and you cannot help but be touched by the sacrifices they BOTH make for each other. Their friendship is really forged in this story. I was very moved by the scene where Logan learns that Guardian has been killed. I give Chris Claremont credit for even mentioning events happening in Alpha Flight, a title outside the main X-Men world. This was a shocker moment, and expertly crafted. As for Ogun, he hasn't appeared since #2, yet his mysteries deepen. Who is this man? Is he immortal, a mutant himself? Will Kitty survive this story? I can't wait to find out.......!! Overall, another amazing adventure in the making.

[worstblogever]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/46211489884.4.GIF

Kitty Pryde and Wolverine #4

"Rebirth"

After reading #4, all I can say is..........WOW! This little mini-series gets more incredible by the issue. There's a treasure here.

Following #3, in which Kitty Pryde sent her sword straight through Wolverine's heart, we begin with Yukio racing a sports car through a dangerous mountain---in the midst of a roaring storm. Carmen Pryde is present, as well as an unconscious Kitty. And Wolverine--who is BADLY wounded and bleeding profusely from his chest. Carmen nearly is killed by Yukio for complaining too much. As they argue, Kitty awakens and phases out of the car. Yukio chases her thru the winds and rain on a lonely road. Kitty silently karate-chops Yukio as they tussle. Something awful has happened to Kitty!! Yukio gives her a stomach-punch and then a hard punch to the chin. And down Ms. Pryde goes. Their destination is the stronghold of Clan Yashida. Mariko herself is not home,but the doors open for our exhausted heroes. :smile:

Kitty Pryde has been "brainwashed" by a mysterious Japanese man named Ogun. He is both man, and "demon". Is he a mutant? This issue leaves you wondering. Logan is in SERIOUS bad shape, his healing power slowly repairing his heart. He needs rest, but Kitty needs him more. Logan pushes himself to the limits, in trying to break Ogun's control over his teenage partner. Kitty realizes she stabbed Logan & nearly killed him---and feels awful about it. Logan says Ogun's claws are still inside her, and running back to Charles Xavier will not help her escape Ogun's grasp! We learn that Ogun was Logan's "sensei"-- Ogun taught Logan everything he knows?! (Now that is some news!) Logan tells Kitty an ancient Japanese story, about the greatest swordsman in Japanese history--Miyamoto Musashi. How the swordsman came to a bridge, and on the other side was another samurai (Ogun.) They both desired to cross the bridge--but only the "best man" could do it. Both samurais take out their katanas--their swords to do battle to decide which man could cross. After staring into each others eyes for a moment, they both sheathed their katanas, and turned and walked away. So apparently, Ogun is the best swordsman in Japan??

Kitty asks if this means Ogun is IMMORTAL? Logan replies "No one knows for sure." I'm more & more intrigued by this Ogun. But thus begins Logan's attempt to break Kitty Pryde of what Ogun did to her. Several tasks are given to Kitty. Like creating a Japanese Garden by herself; or holdind the Honor Sword of the Clan Yashida outstretched for as long as she can (see cover.) Each of these, she seems to fail. But events in other parts of the mutant world encroach, as Charles Xavier calls Logan on the telephone, and informs him that Storm has lost her powers (in UXM #185.) Worse still, Logan learns his old friend, James MacDonald Hudson--Guardian--is dead.) Logan barely registers the details, as he soon hangs up the phone, puts aside his cane, walks outside into the Japanese night and screams and yells alone on a hilltop, until his eyes burn. Logan's grief over Mac's death is excruciating. But Logan realizes he cannot do anything for his dead friend--or Ororo. He must stay here and help the person who immediately needs him--- Kitty Pryde!

More tests come, like Logan leaving wounded Kitty Pryde in the snows during run through the countryside. Weird snowy weather has come to Japan (following events in Walt Simonson's Thor run) and Kitty sprains her ankle. Logan leaves her to fend for herself. Kitty screams "It isn't fair!" Logan says "Never is. Not for Storm. Not for Jamie. What made you think things'd be different for you? The trick is taking the hand you're dealt an' winning anyway. It's a decision only YOU can make, Katherine." Kitty passes this test, standing and making her way back to the house. Logan can barely stand by the time he reaches it, himself. Soon, Kitty raises the Yashida Blade and is able to hold it for hours. She feels she has passed...and failed. She leaves the blade by the slumbering Logan, and heads to the airport. She plans to return to America and see if Charles Xavier can help. The ending is rather unclear on whether she leaves Japan or not!

My thoughts: Out of the blue...another classic story!! Each issue of this limited series rises another notch on the "Awesome" level. Logan risks his own life to save Kitty Pryde---and you cannot help but be touched by the sacrifices they BOTH make for each other. Their friendship is really forged in this story. I was very moved by the scene where Logan learns that Guardian has been killed. I give Chris Claremont credit for even mentioning events happening in Alpha Flight, a title outside the main X-Men world. This was a shocker moment, and expertly crafted. As for Ogun, he hasn't appeared since #2, yet his mysteries deepen. Who is this man? Is he immortal, a mutant himself? Will Kitty survive this story? I can't wait to find out.......!! Overall, another amazing adventure in the making.

While I won't spoil what Ogun is... I will tell you David... unless I'm mistaken it will easily explain a bit more how Kitty got to be such a good martial artist so fast...

[CJ Lentze]

Reading this limited series, and stories like the 'Brood Saga', 'Prof. X Is A Jerk', and 'Whose Life Is It Anyway?', I can see how Kitty Pryde could have inspired Joss Whedon for his 'coming-of-age' themes with Buffy Summers in 'Buffy The Vampire Slayer'.



And I like Yukio as a supporting character. She doesn't have superpowers, but she knows how to fight, and she's so odd and unpredictable. The few times she shows up alongside the X-Men, it's great fun.

[Valjean999]

I LOVED this mini, and it still holds up to this day. #4 was my favorite issues of the series, mainly for the characterization...as you said, that scene where Logan finds out about James's death was done very well, and that scene in the snow, where Logan pushes Kitty to her limit...classic stuff.

I was 12, I think, when this series first came out, and at the time, I bought it for Wolverine. I was a reader of the X-Men, but Kitty never did anything for me. This series turned it around for me, and 25 years later, she is one of my favorite X-Men

[david r]

WBE, I'm guessing....but I suspect Ogun must be a mutant. He has lived hundreds of years, according to Logan. And this would better explain what he did to Kitty Pryde. How he could not only brainwash her, but give her the accumulated fighting experience of Wolverine in just a weeks time.

Schuimend Mormel, I like Yukio as well. Her devil-may-care attitude is fun to read. Though I doubt it'd be practical in the "real world".

Valjean999, Kitty is changing, and growing, in this mini-series. I like how we're seeing different sides of her. And #4 is my favorite issue as well. VERY well-done.

[david r]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/46211489884.5.GIF

Kitty Pryde and Wolverine #5

"Courage"

This issue begins with Kitty Pryde phasing through the desk of crimelord Shigematsu, scaring him half to death. In fact, judging from that last panel, I think Shigematsu may be having a heart attack! Kitty orders him to leave her father, Carmen Pryde, alone. Kitty then phases out of the building and begins dancing in mid-air. She's enjoying her powers. Kitty boards a transit train, and remembers her life's events over the last few weeks. Colossus breaking up with her. Going to visit her father, to get away. How she came to Japan. Kitty thinks "I'm not a kitty anymore--much as I wish differently--I've grown up. I'm a cat, and I like the shadows a whole lot more than daylight. SHADOWCAT. I like it. Suits me better than Ariel or Sprite, that's for sure."

Wolverine and Yukio are still at the home of Clan Yashida. Carmen Pryde realizes Kitty is gone, and is outraged. Yukio again threatens bodily harm if he doesn't shut-up. We now switch to Tokyo, where Lady Mariko Yashida returns to her penthouse to find the young Japanese girl-- Akiko-- waiting for her. Mariko is watching Akiko, who is the girl Wolverine saved in Uncanny X-Men #181 and vowed to raise as his own child. That night, Ogun, dressed with his trademark red-devil mask, sneaks into the Yashida penthouse and attempts to assassinate Mariko with a killing sword-strike! But the body in the bed is actually Kitty Pryde--Shadowcat!-- and phases through the sword. Thus, begins a mad-scramble fight between Ogun and Kitty. Kitty uses every tactical move she knows to defeat the mysterious Ogun! Ogun says if Kitty will not serve him, then Akiko will! Which enrages Kitty!

Mariko and Akiko are hiding in a lower level of the penthouse skyscraper, but Ogun finds them. Kitty phases them out of harms way, and sends them away. Again, Ogun confronts Kitty and they fight hand-to-hand. It makes it's way to the roof, where Ogun literally slaps Kitty around and gives her a final ultimatum--join me as my disciple, or die. Kitty whispers--no. She says "I'm not the girl you brainwashed, Ogun. In some ways, no longer a girl at all. That Kitty's no more---and you have no power over a Shadowcat." Ogun raises his katana and though it breaks his heart, prepares to end Kitty's life. But then the words "I wouldn't do that, bub...if I were you" are heard. Wolverine stands on the roof, smoking a cigarette, ready to stop Ogun!

My thoughts: So Kitty Pryde is having a major life experience here, not dissimiliar to Wolverine's major change in the Wolverine mini. And changes her name to Shadowcat for the 1st time. Her plan to save Mariko & Akiko was dangerous, but she is a warrior true for her actions in this series. This issue, Wolverine takes a back seat to Kitty. But we learn how important Ogun was to him, at one time. Logan says he would have chosen Ogun as his "father, brother, best friend" once. I wonder what in the world could have severed their relationship so completely? Ogun apparently played a major role in Logan's life. I was glad to see Mariko again...and had forgotten about Akiko until now. But truly the best part of #5 was the tooth-and-nails martial arts battle between Ogun & Shadowcat. I hope Wolverine evens the odds next issue!

[wolvie616]

wow

i love this series:smile:

when does the trade come out?

[david r]

I don't know about a trade, but a Hardcover is already out. Schuimend Mormel got it, so maybe he'd be friendly enough to rate it's quality level. I must say, the story is mighty fine.

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/46211972742.1.GIF

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/46211972742.1.VARIANT.GIF

[worstblogever]

Ah, they grow up so fast. :redface:

Except for Franklin Richards, of course. He's been four for like... 30 years now or something.

[david r]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/46211489884.6.GIF

Kitty Pryde and Wolverine #6

"Honor"

The pulse-pounding showdown with Ogun, the man who taught Wolverine everything he knows.

Wolverine confronts Ogun on the rooftop, and the swords and claws are a'slashing. But for all of Wolverine's bravado (I'm the best there is at what I do...) Ogun is better. Ogun taught him what he knows. Ogun slashes and slices Logan, and though Wolvie fights back ferociously, he realizes he is no match for Ogun. Wolverine literally flees. Meanwhile, at the foot of the skyscraper, Yukio, Lady Mariko, Akiko and Carmen Pryde meet up; Yukio determined to safeguard Mariko. But Shumai--the somo-wrestler bodyguard--shows up and is ready to kill them all. Shadowcat--Kitty Pryde-- descends downward and ghosts thru him, giving Yukio a chance to knock some sense into the big lug.

In the heart of Tokyo, we take into a Japanese arcade-named Pachinko--where they are all playing Pac-Man, I assume. Wolverine and Ogun take their duel into this place. Ogun procures a gun and shoots Wolvie in the shoulder. Wolverine barely escapes to the elevator, and flees again. The 2 protagonists make their way to another floor, where Shadowcat reunites with them. Wolverine and Ogun again stand face-to-face, taking the measure of the other. They run towards run another and Ogun stabs his long sword into Logan's stomach! Wolverine slashes the sword into pieces with his unbreakable clas, and then SMILES! The berserker rage deep inside Wolverine is unleashed!! A side of him few people see--and Ogun sees it right before his eyes. The part that Logan can't control, that's truly crazy--runs straight for Ogun. Kitty watches in horror, as Wolverine assaults Ogun like a beast unearthed. Ogun kicks and fights with all his considerable talents, but Wolverine's beastial fury overpowers him. With Logan smiling the whole time, he pins Ogun to a beam and takes his claws and removes the red Devil-Mask from Ogun's face.

Wolverine stands to kill Ogun...but he backs down. He asks if Kitty wants the honor of the kill. Kitty grabs the remnants of the sword and runs to decapitate Ogun. But as the blade comes down, she stops!! She....couldn't! This was a test for Kitty. Would she kill a defenseless man, and become as evil as him?? Kitty passed the test. However, as they go to leave, Ogun snatches the broken sword and runs to murder Kitty. Logan screams "Pryde--PHASE!" Kitty phases in the nick of time, as Ogun's sword passes through her---and Wolverine reaches through her and sends his claws into Ogun's heart!! Ogun collapses, in a pool of blood. Wolverine holds the red Devil-Mask, and mourns Ogun. Ogun could have been a son to him. Logan holds the mask over Ogun's body, and crushes it into dust. Soon, the heroes are all reunited. Carmen Pryde has turned himself into the U.S. Embassy for whatever criminal charges will be made against him and his bank. Kitty, Carmen, Logan, Mariko and Akiko go to an ice cream parlor named Shapiro's. Where it's obvious that Kitty will not be the same, but innocent joy still remains in her---as she dips into a huge bowl of ice cream!

My thoughts: This is an excellent limited series. I can't recommend it enough. I felt the first issue was just alright---maybe a set-up issue. But after that, it becomes a superb story, and Kitty & Logan both undergo dramatic changes. This is where Kitty grows up. If only Colossus could see her now!! Ogun was a rather chilling foe, especially with how he was silent during a lot of the tale. I found his connections with Wolverine.....intriguing. I wish more had been revealed about them two. The only drawback to this was Al Milgrom's art, which I did not feel did justice to the story. His art gets progressively BETTER as it went along, so I'm glad about it. But I think Kitty Pryde and Wolverine will have the lasting effect on me of Kitty growing up, and more disturbing, the idea that Wolverine's animal self was the only way Logan could stop Ogun. Logan is left wondering if he is truly a man at all.....or if he's still ruled by his inner beast??

[worstblogever]

And because it's comics... it's not the last we see of Ogun.

I know he came back for at least one arc on Wolverine in the 90s, and he showed up in a mini-series that still makes me scratch my head by the name of "Kitty Pryde: Agent of Shield".

But we're still a decade or more away from that.

[CJ Lentze]

wow

i love this series:smile:

when does the trade come out?The hardcover is limited to 1300 copies, you should be able to find one in the quality comic stores, and if you don't I think you can still order it. It's a fine hardcover, but it doesn't have a lot of extras, aside from an 'Editori-Al' comic introduction by Al Milgrom, and one page of concept art for the first page of issue 6. It's 20 dollars, I got it for 22 euros.


I thought when Logan said 'I loved him like a son', what he meant was that he loved him like a son loved a father. Ogun was the father figure to Logan, not the other way around. It was a powerful conclusion to the mini- at the end, Kitty and Logan helped each other grow. I agree with Kitty that the noble part of Logan's psyche managed to control the 'beast' within. Of course, in the future he'll go berserk plenty of times, letting the beast loose, but for the moment, he's good.

[david r]

WBE, I was going to ask about Ogun's future. Or lack thereof. But you answered my question. :smile:

Anyone notice the names Ogun and Logan rhyme? Or at least, highly similiar. I wonder if that's coincidence? I wish their relationship had been explored more; we got the barest hints of it here.

Schuimend Mormel, I'm not so sure about the "beast" you wrote about. I read it that the "beast" inside Wolverine is what SAVED him, because Ogun was a better martial arts fighter---and Logan knew it. The only reason Wolverine won was his mutant animal-side, which he unleashed and overpowered Ogun with. That gave him an edge........but that side is the VERY THING Logan is trying to supress and control. You don't agree?

It is too bad Kitty Pryde and Wolverine isn't as well-known or well-regarded as Wolverine's solo mini. I think it's on a par with it. I also enjoyed the well-choreographed combat scenes depicted by Al Milgrom. I felt they were just as good as Frank Miller's work, and Milgrom did a fine job with that.

[wolvie616]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/46211489884.6.GIF

Kitty Pryde and Wolverine #6

"Honor"

The pulse-pounding showdown with Ogun, the man who taught Wolverine everything he knows.

Wolverine confronts Ogun on the rooftop, and the swords and claws are a'slashing. But for all of Wolverine's bravado (I'm the best there is at what I do...) Ogun is better. Ogun taught him what he knows. Ogun slashes and slices Logan, and though Wolvie fights back ferociously, he realizes he is no match for Ogun. Wolverine literally flees. Meanwhile, at the foot of the skyscraper, Yukio, Lady Mariko, Akiko and Carmen Pryde meet up; Yukio determined to safeguard Mariko. But Shumai--the somo-wrestler bodyguard--shows up and is ready to kill them all. Shadowcat--Kitty Pryde-- descends downward and ghosts thru him, giving Yukio a chance to knock some sense into the big lug.

In the heart of Tokyo, we take into a Japanese arcade-named Pachinko--where they are all playing Pac-Man, I assume. Wolverine and Ogun take their duel into this place. Ogun procures a gun and shoots Wolvie in the shoulder. Wolverine barely escapes to the elevator, and flees again. The 2 protagonists make their way to another floor, where Shadowcat reunites with them. Wolverine and Ogun again stand face-to-face, taking the measure of the other. They run towards run another and Ogun stabs his long sword into Logan's stomach! Wolverine slashes the sword into pieces with his unbreakable clas, and then SMILES! The berserker rage deep inside Wolverine is unleashed!! A side of him few people see--and Ogun sees it right before his eyes. The part that Logan can't control, that's truly crazy--runs straight for Ogun. Kitty watches in horror, as Wolverine assaults Ogun like a beast unearthed. Ogun kicks and fights with all his considerable talents, but Wolverine's beastial fury overpowers him. With Logan smiling the whole time, he pins Ogun to a beam and takes his claws and removes the red Devil-Mask from Ogun's face.

Wolverine stands to kill Ogun...but he backs down. He asks if Kitty wants the honor of the kill. Kitty grabs the remnants of the sword and runs to decapitate Ogun. But as the blade comes down, she stops!! She....couldn't! This was a test for Kitty. Would she kill a defenseless man, and become as evil as him?? Kitty passed the test. However, as they go to leave, Ogun snatches the broken sword and runs to murder Kitty. Logan screams "Pryde--PHASE!" Kitty phases in the nick of time, as Ogun's sword passes through her---and Wolverine reaches through her and sends his claws into Ogun's heart!! Ogun collapses, in a pool of blood. Wolverine holds the red Devil-Mask, and mourns Ogun. Ogun could have been a son to him. Logan holds the mask over Ogun's body, and crushes it into dust. Soon, the heroes are all reunited. Carmen Pryde has turned himself into the U.S. Embassy for whatever criminal charges will be made against him and his bank. Kitty, Carmen, Logan, Mariko and Akiko go to an ice cream parlor named Shapiro's. Where it's obvious that Kitty will not be the same, but innocent joy still remains in her---as she dips into a huge bowl of ice cream!

My thoughts: This is an excellent limited series. I can't recommend it enough. I felt the first issue was just alright---maybe a set-up issue. But after that, it becomes a superb story, and Kitty & Logan both undergo dramatic changes. This is where Kitty grows up. If only Colossus could see her now!! Ogun was a rather chilling foe, especially with how he was silent during a lot of the tale. I found his connections with Wolverine.....intriguing. I wish more had been revealed about them two. The only drawback to this was Al Milgrom's art, which I did not feel did justice to the story. His art gets progressively BETTER as it went along, so I'm glad about it. But I think Kitty Pryde and Wolverine will have the lasting effect on me of Kitty growing up, and more disturbing, the idea that Wolverine's animal self was the only way Logan could stop Ogun. Logan is left wondering if he is truly a man at all.....or if he's still ruled by his inner beast??

well, if it was a test for kitty, than wouldnt he have held back at first,then his smile, he went serious, but not feral, maybe fake feral, but not feral:biggrin:

[david r]

well, if it was a test for kitty, than wouldnt he have held back at first,then his smile, he went serious, but not feral, maybe fake feral, but not feral:biggrin:

From the comic, it looks like Wolverine went all-out feral. That was the only way he could defeat Ogun. Ogun was a better combat-fighter (as hard as that is to believe.) Logan knew it, so allowed his savage side to surface to stop Ogun, once and for all.

BTW, glad to see a fellow Wolverine fan on this board. There really aren't very many here.

[david r]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.189.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #189

"Two Girls Out To Have Fun"

This issue stars Rachel Summers and Amara Aquilla. It seems established that Rachel has met and grown close with some New Mutants, but we really haven't seen it. But that is a minor squibble, as this issue delivers the goods....

It begins with Rachel and Magma standing atop the Statue of Liberty, as it's being refitted and cleaned. (Which was happening in the mid-1980s.) Before them is sprawling Manhattan. Rachel's memories of it aren't pleasant. "In her minds eye, she sees lower Manhattan burning. The twin towers of the World Trade Center lie in ruins. Thousands are dead, many more injured." Reading that is more than a little eerie. Her memories of the "future" continue; Rachel remembers being a hound, which we witness for the first time. A soldier who looks like Henry Peter Gyrich has her by a collar, rips her black mask off to reveal Rachel's "maori mask", and the studded, black uniform of a hound. He orders her to hunt some muties in the upper bay. She does as she's told, finds the mutants and the humans execute them. :eek:

Rachel sheds tears, as she remembers so many killed---because of her. Meanwhile in present-day, the X-Men (Colossus, Nightcrawler, Rogue, Lockheed, Illyana Rasputin and Charles Xavier) are aboard a huge cruise ship, saying farewell to Storm. It says here that Storm is leaving the team, to return to Africa. She tearfully hugs her teammates, and tells them to give Kitty her love. (Kitty and Wolverine are in Japan.) As this is happening, Rachel and Amara enter the Metropolitan Museum of Art, for an exhibit that reminds Amara of her home---Nova Roma. As they enjoy the exhibits, Rachel senses the psychic "footprint" of Selene. They run outside, but Selene is leaving in a limousine. They chase it for a few blocks till it reaches the fabled Hellfire Club. They sneak in the back (which REALLY pushes credibility) and find a closet. They don the sexy, revealing waitress outfits which would make Madonna blush. And enter the main complex. Meanwhile, down in the dark dungeons, Sebastian Shaw and Tessa have a meeting with Selene and Friedrich von Roehm. Lady Selene is desiring entrance into the Inner Circle, as the "Black Queen". She demonstrates her power by encasing Sebastian in a "fist" made of the stone floor. Shaw smashes free, and is a bit shocked by her tremendous power.

Shaw desires a test, so Selene disappears. Selene finds Rachel & Magma in the hallways, and takes control of them. Tessa is shocked by Rachel's uncanny resemblance to Jean Grey. Rachel wants to break Selene's psychic control, so she enters Magma's mind. She finds herself in a Roman temple, with a statue of Selene. Magma sits below it, and Rachel confronts her, wearing a new reddish costume. The 2 girls spar, and Magma's earthquakes rock the place. Magma ignites her volcanic powers, and blasts Selene's statute. Which has the effect of letting Rachel & Magma free in the real world, of Selene's psychic oppression. More quarrelling ensues, as the X-Men themselves smash into the Hellfire Club to save Rachel & Magma. Professor X appears in his astral form. Nightcrawler grabs Selene and teleports away, giving her a nerve pinch to disable Lady Selene. The Hellfire Club is rocked by earthquakes caused from Magma. But Xavier orders her to stop. Shaw and Xavier have words; Shaw stating it wasn't his ideas to kidnap his "brats". They have no quarrel--at the moment--and are free to leave.

Workers begin cleaning up the mess, as the X-Men collect their wits. They leave the building to discover miniature volcanoes all over the street. Caused by Magma's outburst. This was how the other X-Men found Rachel and Amy. Magma is upset because Selene STILL has not paid for murdering her mother. But Rachel says don't worry. It'll be a long time before she steps out of line again. #189 ends with a construction worker waiting for a train in Manhattan's train station. A mugger appears and stabs him from behind. The mugger locates a golden, bright necklace and grabs a hold to steal it! Then, fire shoots out all over the railway station, as a voice says "FREE! At last, Kulan Gath is free! After countless centuries, my destiny is at hand--to make this world forever mine!"

My thoughts: Another great issue, I found the section with Rachel the Hound, and her memories of burning Manhattan disturbing. The shot of the smoking ruin of the Twin Towers is chilling to read now, in the aftermath of September 11th, 2001. Rachel's former life becomes more tragic the more we learn of it. As for Magma, I am glad to see Amara explored some more. Selene certainly is a thorn in the side of both these young women. The Hellfire Club make their guest appearance, which seems to be every third issue or so!! I was saddened to see Storm leave; I hope not for good. Also, from the title of #189, I was expecting more shopping and carefree craziness on the part of Amara and Rachel!! But nothing comes easy for our mutants, eh?

[david r]

Rachel Summers "remembers" the Twin Towers in ruins:

http://www.sub-liminal.com/twin_towers.jpg

[worstblogever]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.189.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #189

"Two Girls Out To Have Fun"

This issue stars Rachel Summers and Amara Aquilla. It seems established that Rachel has met and grown close with some New Mutants, but we really haven't seen it. But that is a minor squibble, as this issue delivers the goods....

It begins with Rachel and Magma standing atop the Statue of Liberty, as it's being refitted and cleaned. (Which was happening in the mid-1980s.) Before them is sprawling Manhattan. Rachel's memories of it aren't pleasant. "In her minds eye, she sees lower Manhattan burning. The twin towers of the World Trade Center lie in ruins. Thousands are dead, many more injured." Reading that is more than a little eerie. Her memories of the "future" continue; Rachel remembers being a hound, which we witness for the first time. A soldier who looks like Henry Peter Gyrich has her by a collar, rips her black mask off to reveal Rachel's "maori mask", and the studded, black uniform of a hound. He orders her to hunt some muties in the upper bay. She does as she's told, finds the mutants and the humans execute them. :eek:

Rachel sheds tears, as she remembers so many killed---because of her. Meanwhile in present-day, the X-Men (Colossus, Nightcrawler, Rogue, Lockheed, Illyana Rasputin and Charles Xavier) are aboard a huge cruise ship, saying farewell to Storm. It says here that Storm is leaving the team, to return to Africa. She tearfully hugs her teammates, and tells them to give Kitty her love. (Kitty and Wolverine are in Japan.) As this is happening, Rachel and Amara enter the Metropolitan Museum of Art, for an exhibit that reminds Amara of her home---Nova Roma. As they enjoy the exhibits, Rachel senses the psychic "footprint" of Selene. They run outside, but Selene is leaving in a limousine. They chase it for a few blocks till it reaches the fabled Hellfire Club. They sneak in the back (which REALLY pushes credibility) and find a closet. They don the sexy, revealing waitress outfits which would make Madonna blush. And enter the main complex. Meanwhile, down in the dark dungeons, Sebastian Shaw and Tessa have a meeting with Selene and Friedrich von Roehm. Lady Selene is desiring entrance into the Inner Circle, as the "Black Queen". She demonstrates her power by encasing Sebastian in a "fist" made of the stone floor. Shaw smashes free, and is a bit shocked by her tremendous power.

Shaw desires a test, so Selene disappears. Selene finds Rachel & Magma in the hallways, and takes control of them. Tessa is shocked by Rachel's uncanny resemblance to Jean Grey. Rachel wants to break Selene's psychic control, so she enters Magma's mind. She finds herself in a Roman temple, with a statue of Selene. Magma sits below it, and Rachel confronts her, wearing a new reddish costume. The 2 girls spar, and Magma's earthquakes rock the place. Magma ignites her volcanic powers, and blasts Selene's statute. Which has the effect of letting Rachel & Magma free in the real world, of Selene's psychic oppression. More quarrelling ensues, as the X-Men themselves smash into the Hellfire Club to save Rachel & Magma. Professor X appears in his astral form. Nightcrawler grabs Selene and teleports away, giving her a nerve pinch to disable Lady Selene. The Hellfire Club is rocked by earthquakes caused from Magma. But Xavier orders her to stop. Shaw and Xavier have words; Shaw stating it wasn't his ideas to kidnap his "brats". They have no quarrel--at the moment--and are free to leave.

Workers begin cleaning up the mess, as the X-Men collect their wits. They leave the building to discover miniature volcanoes all over the street. Caused by Magma's outburst. This was how the other X-Men found Rachel and Amy. Magma is upset because Selene STILL has not paid for murdering her mother. But Rachel says don't worry. It'll be a long time before she steps out of line again. #189 ends with a construction worker waiting for a train in Manhattan's train station. A mugger appears and stabs him from behind. The mugger locates a golden, bright necklace and grabs a hold to steal it! Then, fire shoots out all over the railway station, as a voice says "FREE! At last, Kulan Gath is free! After countless centuries, my destiny is at hand--to make this world forever mine!"

My thoughts: Another great issue, I found the section with Rachel the Hound, and her memories of burning Manhattan disturbing. The shot of the smoking ruin of the Twin Towers is chilling to read now, in the aftermath of September 11th, 2001. Rachel's former life becomes more tragic the more we learn of it. As for Magma, I am glad to see Amara explored some more. Selene certainly is a thorn in the side of both these young women. The Hellfire Club make their guest appearance, which seems to be every third issue or so!! I was saddened to see Storm leave; I hope not for good. Also, from the title of #189, I was expecting more shopping and carefree craziness on the part of Amara and Rachel!! But nothing comes easy for our mutants, eh?

If there were any doubt Selene wasn't formidable, after her fight with the New Mutants on her debut... this issue should put that to bed. Sebastian Shaw is intimidated by her. That's a guy who wanted to harness the power of Phoenix, and he's taken off his guard by her. Pretty good vote of confidence, there.

Of course, with this issue having the "Storm's leaving... or is she?" moment, and the fact that it leads into Kulan Gath is a negative.

But hearing about Rachel as a hound? Magma getting face time, as she teams up to help her take down Selene? That's a plus.

[CJ Lentze]

Schuimend Mormel, I'm not so sure about the "beast" you wrote about. I read it that the "beast" inside Wolverine is what SAVED him, because Ogun was a better martial arts fighter---and Logan knew it. The only reason Wolverine won was his mutant animal-side, which he unleashed and overpowered Ogun with. That gave him an edge........but that side is the VERY THING Logan is trying to supress and control. You don't agree?Oh, I do agree that Wolverine's 'beast' side/berserker rage was the only thing that enabled him to gain the upper hand in the battle. But the important difference with previous fights where he went berserk, is that this time around he managed to keep the 'berserker' on a leash; that is, as soon as he had disarmed Ogun, he put the lid on his berserker rage, as Kitty says, so he could subject Kitty to her final trial of heroism (sparing Ogun). He could have cut Ogun to ribbons during his berserker rage, but he didn't. He ended up killing him anyway, but that was while he was thinking straight and it served to save Kitty.

[CJ Lentze]

Ah, yes, Issue 189...

They just wanna, they just wanna-a-a... I can't read this issue without hearing Cyndi Lauper in my head.

Call me crazy, but this issue remains my all-time favourite X-Men comic (at least, for now). Yeah, I realise that 'Madness', 'LifeDeath', 'Rogue: Public Enemy' are all superior to this one in storytelling and significance, but this is sort of where I hopped on board. Rachel and Magma were both new characters to me, and I thought they were cool because, to me, they seemed to represent the 'X-Men of tomorrow, but not quite X-Men yet'.

Though going after Selene is serious personal business for both girls, the 'fun' part extends to the adventuresome curiosity with which they sneak into the club, and how they manage to free each other from Selene's mental hold, and then the short battle afterwards. It wasn't 'fun' fun, considering what Selene did to Amara's mother, but in a sense, Ray and Magma are both warriors, and they know enjoyment in battle.

Rachel and Amara make a fun pair, for the reasons that were given in the narration box on the first two pages... Rachel's the girl from the future, Amara comes from a society that 'lives in the past'. I personally think the two of them would have made cool best friends because of this contrast; some consider Rachel to be Kitty's best friend, but I think that honour belongs to Illyana; Rachel's relationship to Kitty (or Kate) is different.
They're vague on whether or not Rachel is a student at Xavier's now, but she wouldn't be out of place among the New Mutants, would she?

So, this is the first time they mention that Rachel was a Hound? It does add to the darkness of her past, the darkness of her own person, in fact, although she was forced to do this, any guilt she feels goes well beyond mere 'survivor's guilt'. So, coming out of a dystopian future, it had been a long time since Ray had had the opportunity to go and have some fun; she's not shy or skittish about doing this at all, she takes Amara (who's as much a new girl as Ray herself, in a way) by the hand, and shows her around New York, that does say a little about her personality.
I still don't know what Rachel saw in the room she was serving that was so funny, but since it's the Hellfire Club, it ought to have been zany, since even the HFC members who aren't involved with the Inner Circle run along with that theatrical 18th/19th century theme. A panel for clarification would have been nice, but Romita Jr. did a good job drawing Rachel trying to suppress her laughter, it's as if you can feel her midriff keeping down the chuckles.

Sorry for the longwindedness of all this, but I truly love this issue, and I believe it's one of DDM's personal favourites, as well.




Side question: How old was Rachel supposed to be? I always think she's about a year older than Kitty in these stories, making her 15-16 (maybe even 17?), but she was dating Franklin Richards in DoFP, who, at that point (2013 in a 1980 story) must have been in his mid-30s. Of course, Franklin has been known to manipulate reality, and I believe his feats include manipulating his own age, though I wouldn't know for sure.

[Home made ectoplasm]

Ah, yes, Issue 189...

They just wanna, they just wanna-a-a... I can't read this issue without hearing Cyndi Lauper in my head.

Call me crazy, but this issue remains my all-time favourite X-Men comic (at least, for now). Yeah, I realise that 'Madness', 'LifeDeath', 'Rogue: Public Enemy' are all superior to this one in storytelling and significance, but this is sort of where I hopped on board. Rachel and Magma were both new characters to me, and I thought they were cool because, to me, they seemed to represent the 'X-Men of tomorrow, but not quite X-Men yet'.

Though going after Selene is serious personal business for both girls, the 'fun' part extends to the adventuresome curiosity with which they sneak into the club, and how they manage to free each other from Selene's mental hold, and then the short battle afterwards. It wasn't 'fun' fun, considering what Selene did to Amara's mother, but in a sense, Ray and Magma are both warriors, and they know enjoyment in battle.

Rachel and Amara make a fun pair, for the reasons that were given in the narration box on the first two pages... Rachel's the girl from the future, Amara comes from a society that 'lives in the past'. I personally think the two of them would have made cool best friends because of this contrast; some consider Rachel to be Kitty's best friend, but I think that honour belongs to Illyana; Rachel's relationship to Kitty (or Kate) is different.
They're vague on whether or not Rachel is a student at Xavier's now, but she wouldn't be out of place among the New Mutants, would she?

So, this is the first time they mention that Rachel was a Hound? It does add to the darkness of her past, the darkness of her own person, in fact, although she was forced to do this, any guilt she feels goes well beyond mere 'survivor's guilt'. So, coming out of a dystopian future, it had been a long time since Ray had had the opportunity to go and have some fun; she's not shy or skittish about doing this at all, she takes Amara (who's as much a new girl as Ray herself, in a way) by the hand, and shows her around New York, that does say a little about her personality.
I still don't know what Rachel saw in the room she was serving that was so funny, but since it's the Hellfire Club, it ought to have been zany, since even the HFC members who aren't involved with the Inner Circle run along with that theatrical 18th/19th century theme. A panel for clarification would have been nice, but Romita Jr. did a good job drawing Rachel trying to suppress her laughter, it's as if you can feel her midriff keeping down the chuckles.

Sorry for the longwindedness of all this, but I truly love this issue, and I believe it's one of DDM's personal favourites, as well.


Great write up Schuimend, David R too. Add me to the list of people for whom this issue is a personal favourite. I'll need to go and read it again before I comment further.

[Nevets F]

Ah yes, this issue is a fav of mine as well. I simply love it. I was curious how others here would feel about it, since it is basically about Rachel and Magma, the newest X-Man and a New Mutant. Glad to see so many other like it, even without the main X-men in it a lot.

Getting close to X-Men/Alpha Flight! YAY!

[Valjean999]

Rachel Summers "remembers" the Twin Towers in ruins:

http://www.sub-liminal.com/twin_towers.jpg

...WOW...thats kinda creepy...

[Darkchylde]

...WOW...thats kinda creepy...


Unless I'm mistaken, aren't those preview pages from Chris Claremont's often-rumored but never-published Phoenix mini-series from the 1980's? The story would have delved more into Rachel's life before she met the X-Men, right?

[DDM]

Rachel Summers "remembers" the Twin Towers in ruins:

http://www.sub-liminal.com/twin_towers.jpg

Unless I'm mistaken, aren't those preview pages from Chris Claremont's often-rumored but never-published Phoenix mini-series from the 1980's? The story would have delved more into Rachel's life before she met the X-Men, right?

Yes, the big pencils art is Rick Leonardi's initial pages of Phoenix #1 that was aborted mid-way through the project. The story takes place after Uncanny X-Men #209 & before Excalibur Special Edition #1. More of Rachel's past is shown in this story involving the Shadow King, although all of it takes place on Mojoworld.

[DDM]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.189.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #189

"Two Girls Out To Have Fun"

This issue stars Rachel Summers and Amara Aquilla. It seems established that Rachel has met and grown close with some New Mutants, but we really haven't seen it. But that is a minor squibble, as this issue delivers the goods....

It begins with Rachel and Magma standing atop the Statue of Liberty, as it's being refitted and cleaned. (Which was happening in the mid-1980s.) Before them is sprawling Manhattan. Rachel's memories of it aren't pleasant. "In her minds eye, she sees lower Manhattan burning. The twin towers of the World Trade Center lie in ruins. Thousands are dead, many more injured." Reading that is more than a little eerie. Her memories of the "future" continue; Rachel remembers being a hound, which we witness for the first time. A soldier who looks like Henry Peter Gyrich has her by a collar, rips her black mask off to reveal Rachel's "maori mask", and the studded, black uniform of a hound. He orders her to hunt some muties in the upper bay. She does as she's told, finds the mutants and the humans execute them. :eek:

Rachel sheds tears, as she remembers so many killed---because of her. Meanwhile in present-day, the X-Men (Colossus, Nightcrawler, Rogue, Lockheed, Illyana Rasputin and Charles Xavier) are aboard a huge cruise ship, saying farewell to Storm. It says here that Storm is leaving the team, to return to Africa. She tearfully hugs her teammates, and tells them to give Kitty her love. (Kitty and Wolverine are in Japan.) As this is happening, Rachel and Amara enter the Metropolitan Museum of Art, for an exhibit that reminds Amara of her home---Nova Roma. As they enjoy the exhibits, Rachel senses the psychic "footprint" of Selene. They run outside, but Selene is leaving in a limousine. They chase it for a few blocks till it reaches the fabled Hellfire Club. They sneak in the back (which REALLY pushes credibility) and find a closet. They don the sexy, revealing waitress outfits which would make Madonna blush. And enter the main complex. Meanwhile, down in the dark dungeons, Sebastian Shaw and Tessa have a meeting with Selene and Friedrich von Roehm. Lady Selene is desiring entrance into the Inner Circle, as the "Black Queen". She demonstrates her power by encasing Sebastian in a "fist" made of the stone floor. Shaw smashes free, and is a bit shocked by her tremendous power.

Shaw desires a test, so Selene disappears. Selene finds Rachel & Magma in the hallways, and takes control of them. Tessa is shocked by Rachel's uncanny resemblance to Jean Grey. Rachel wants to break Selene's psychic control, so she enters Magma's mind. She finds herself in a Roman temple, with a statue of Selene. Magma sits below it, and Rachel confronts her, wearing a new reddish costume. The 2 girls spar, and Magma's earthquakes rock the place. Magma ignites her volcanic powers, and blasts Selene's statute. Which has the effect of letting Rachel & Magma free in the real world, of Selene's psychic oppression. More quarrelling ensues, as the X-Men themselves smash into the Hellfire Club to save Rachel & Magma. Professor X appears in his astral form. Nightcrawler grabs Selene and teleports away, giving her a nerve pinch to disable Lady Selene. The Hellfire Club is rocked by earthquakes caused from Magma. But Xavier orders her to stop. Shaw and Xavier have words; Shaw stating it wasn't his ideas to kidnap his "brats". They have no quarrel--at the moment--and are free to leave.

Workers begin cleaning up the mess, as the X-Men collect their wits. They leave the building to discover miniature volcanoes all over the street. Caused by Magma's outburst. This was how the other X-Men found Rachel and Amy. Magma is upset because Selene STILL has not paid for murdering her mother. But Rachel says don't worry. It'll be a long time before she steps out of line again. #189 ends with a construction worker waiting for a train in Manhattan's train station. A mugger appears and stabs him from behind. The mugger locates a golden, bright necklace and grabs a hold to steal it! Then, fire shoots out all over the railway station, as a voice says "FREE! At last, Kulan Gath is free! After countless centuries, my destiny is at hand--to make this world forever mine!"

My thoughts: Another great issue, I found the section with Rachel the Hound, and her memories of burning Manhattan disturbing. The shot of the smoking ruin of the Twin Towers is chilling to read now, in the aftermath of September 11th, 2001. Rachel's former life becomes more tragic the more we learn of it. As for Magma, I am glad to see Amara explored some more. Selene certainly is a thorn in the side of both these young women. The Hellfire Club make their guest appearance, which seems to be every third issue or so!! I was saddened to see Storm leave; I hope not for good. Also, from the title of #189, I was expecting more shopping and carefree craziness on the part of Amara and Rachel!! But nothing comes easy for our mutants, eh?

Selene's "audition" for the Hellfire Club's Black Queen role is in this story. True, Sebastian Shaw is completely taken off-guard by Selene's powers; however, Selene fails to mention her primary mutant power is the psionically drain the life-force of her victims. Sebastian Shaw & Selene are enemies with Uncanny X-Men #189 because she has different goals within the Hellfire Club & many of her goals do not line-up with Sebastian Shaw, the Black King, & Emma Frost, the White Queen. More importantly, Selene desires Sebastian's place as leader of the Inner Circle of the Hellfire Club.

Tessa's observations are wise about Rachel Summers. However, at this point, Rachel does not have the power to kill Selene...

What makes Uncanny X-Men #189 special is this is primarily a Hellfire Club story, yet Rachel Summers & Magma remain the stars of the story. Chris Claremont did not make the mistake of writing the girls as guest stars in their own book.

[Imraith Nimphais]

LOVEDLUVDLURVED this issue...it was action-packed, and had really good character developement (for Rachel) but I absolutely adored this issue for primarily two reasons...1: Selene 2: Selene in her Black Queen outfit...lol...and I thought Rachel's outfit while under Selene's influence was hawt!

[Home made ectoplasm]

I wonder what Rachel saw going on off panel within the Hellfire Club that was causing her to laugh so much?

[Darkchylde]

Yes, the big pencils art is Rick Leonardi's initial pages of Phoenix #1 that was aborted mid-way through the project. The story takes place after Uncanny X-Men #209 & before Excalibur Special Edition #1. More of Rachel's past is shown in this story involving the Shadow King, although all of it takes place on Mojoworld.

Yes, I remember now. Given what happens in Uncanny X-Men # 209, Rachel's mini-series was meant to bridge the gulf between those events and the start of Excalibur. But this is the first I've heard of the Shadow King playing a role. I wonder to what degree would he have been involved? Was he meant to have a hand in the creation of the hound program?

[DDM]

Yes, I remember now. Given what happens in Uncanny X-Men # 209, Rachel's mini-series was meant to bridge the gulf between those events and the start of Excalibur. But this is the first I've heard of the Shadow King playing a role. I wonder to what degree would he have been involved? Was he meant to have a hand in the creation of the hound program?

The Shadow King is the primary cause for her apocalyptic future; he fed off the negative energy created by the mutant Holocaust. The Shadow King controlled the Hellfire Club as puppets in her world, although the Inner Circle was unaware they were pawns.

Chris Claremont inserted this flashback in Excalibur #21-22 as a parallel to his big Shadow King storyline in Uncanny X-Men at the time. Then there's the X-Men: True Friends #1-3 (i.e. Excalibur Special Edition #3)

[DDM]

I wonder what Rachel saw going on off panel within the Hellfire Club that was causing her to laugh so much?

Rachel was just laughing at herself playing the role as a server in the Hellfire Club.

[david r]

Wow, a lot of love for UXM #189. It is indeed a special issue. Selene seems to be everywhere right now. And I indeed was astonished to see Sebastian Shaw awed by Selene's power. It takes a lot of make Mr. Inner Circle take a step back!!

Schuimend Mormel, Yes, this issue's title sounds like "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun" by Cyndi Lauper. I'm sure Chris Claremont wrote it as an in-joke. :tongue: I like your observation of Rachel & Amara as "X-Men of tomorrow...but not quite X-Men yet." I think Rachel should join the New Mutants; she would fit in there best. I still wish we'd seen her properly introduced to them.

The "Hound" segment was disturbing. I rather like the "maori mask" and thought it was cool looking. But Rachel mentions she helped kill so many people! The more we hear of Rachel's past, the more horrific it becomes.

As for Rachel laughing....I got the impression she was "seeing/hearing" some lovemaking going on inside a Hellfire Club room. Role-playing/domination presumably was the choice, and Rachel was amused by it. But the panel leaves it open to interpretation. I always saw the Hellfire Club like the Playboy Mansion....if you know what I mean....:tongue: )

I am not sure Rachel's age. But she appears in her late teens. I doubt shes in her 30s.

Storm's departure saddened me. But by #189, she seems to be handling her power loss in a mature way.

I found Nightcrawler subduing Selene with a mere nerve pinch unbelievable. No way Lady Selene got taken out that easy!

[Cub]

Oh. My. God. I have finally read the whole thread! It's been such a pleasure to read, I managed it within a week (at the expense of virtually everything else in my life, but worth it). Kudos, David R. Tried to do this a few years back in college, but it hurt my brain.

I'm so glad I hopped on board with this thread during this era, as it remains my favorite. So much is going on!!! Before, there were major battles, and huge epics, which are classics, and rightfully so (Storm being speared by the sentinel in DOFP remains a shocking image for me), but this period just feels so layered, as more and more keeps on being heaped upon these characters, what with truly evil threats like the Hellfire Club (who remain one of, if not my very favorite x-men villains), anti-mutant sentiment from the general public, and internal struggles within the team. Before, all of the good guys were straight up good (except for Jean, which further highlighted her descent into madness). But now Storm is barely recognizable, Rogue is still not entirely trusted, and Kitty is already becoming more mature and hardened. Add Rachel with all her emotional baggage, and this is one very unstable group. Claremont is excellent at creating this almost tangible sense of unease, distrust, and fear, but still the sense of family has not diminished. Issues like 180 and 183 are wonderful to me because it shows the team doing what real people do. Plus the 80s vibe is just so hilarious. Kitty wearing a sweat band and leg warmers, not to go to a lesson at Stevie Hunter's, just because. What a wacky decade!

This time in x-men is definitely Storm's shining moment. Claremont writes her incredibly well here. Her transformation is shocking, but still quite logical (I do kinda wish we'd have seen where CC wanted to go with the whole magical abilities though). Wolverine, also, is more interesting to me now, than at any other time, before or after. And Rogue really begins to shine too, really adding not just to the team, but to the feel of the book.

As much of a Kitty Pryde fan as I am, I'd never read the limited series. Sounds excellent. I always had a question as to when, exactly, she stopped using Sprite and became Shadowcat. I seem to remember a comic (perhaps Excalibur 66-67) where a sentinel calls Kitty Ariel, and Rachel corrects him, saying that she was only Ariel in Rachel's timeline. This does seem to fit with the regular Uncanny run, where Kitty stops using Sprite and is just referred to as Kitty Pryde for some time, until right about now. Still, in some miniseries and such, it does seem that she uses the Ariel codename. Strange.

It is so interesting to learn the behind the scenes stuff with the editors, writers, and artists, as well. Seeing what new storylines occur and what characters become featured, or dropped, with the addition of new creative teams, is way cool. And I'm sorry, but the feud that turns Claremont and Byrne into 12 year old girls is just hilarious.

As a whole, I have loved the art since Claremont began, with the exception of Cockrum. Just doesn't do it for me. Paul Smith, on the other hand, is wonderful, and I wish he was more highly regarded for his run on x-men. perhaps if he had stayed longer.

The book as a whole just seems to feel more real to me back then. It flows much more organically than today, when every year or so, a new creative team comes in, says "here's what i want done with so and so", and completely negates what's gone on before. The x-men used to feel like actual people, now they are simply a product. What a shame.

Anyway, sorry this has been so long-winded and scattered, but I've been itching to get all of this out. Looking forward to the rest of this, I'll be here for the long haul.

[CJ Lentze]

I was as much delighted by Selene's presentation to Shaw as Imraith Nimphais and DDM were. Especially the part where she restores Shaw's throne, and Sebastian thinks to himself 'She took the liberty of sitting on it.' After the departure of Wyngarde, the Hellfire Club needed someone who could squabble with Shaw and be his rival for power. Internal strife just brings that much more danger to the mix.

One other thing that made me giggle: when Amara said 'slaves' when she meant 'servants' (as she's Roman, after all). It's this kind of 'culture shock' that gives charm to the story. I've also wondered whether or not Amara speaks with a Roman accent; her choice of words suggests that she has an accent, but it's fun to wonder what a native Latin speaker would sound like speaking English.As for Rachel laughing....I got the impression she was "seeing/hearing" some lovemaking going on inside a Hellfire Club room. Role-playing/domination presumably was the choice, and Rachel was amused by it. But the panel leaves it open to interpretation. I always saw the Hellfire Club like the Playboy Mansion....if you know what I mean....:tongue: ):eek: >blush<Storm's departure saddened me. But by #189, she seems to be handling her power loss in a mature way.Even at this point, there's more than meets the eye here. I feel Ororo must be putting up a front for her friends. She sounded far too calm when she spoke to Nightcrawler after her swim in the previous issue, and said she'd survive. On Eagle Plaza she was close to breaking down; her coming to terms with the loss of her powers is far from over.This time in x-men is definitely Storm's shining moment. Claremont writes her incredibly well here. Her transformation is shocking, but still quite logical (I do kinda wish we'd have seen where CC wanted to go with the whole magical abilities though).Speaking of Storm, there was a letter in this very issue that spoke of Storm's transformation from serene goddess to mohawk-and-leather (written before Storm's depowerment). I think I'll post it later, because it makes an interesting suggestion about the nature of the transformation. Of course, in issue 186, Storm explains some details of why the transformation took place, but I still think the letter is worth reading.

Welcome aboard, Cub. Looking forward to reading your opinions about this era of X-Men, and beyond. What you said about these issues was spot on; the X-Men feel like a family more than ever now, because they don't merely fight together, they live together. They share breakfast, they are subjected to each other's tantrums, etc. Almost paradoxically, the internal struggles of the team seem to strengthen them. They all have their faults, but at the same time, they carry each other, reach out to teammates who are in need, so they come out stronger as individuals and as a group. The theme of anti-mutant sentiment peaking in these issues makes the world they live in feel more real.I seem to remember a comic (perhaps Excalibur 66-67) where a sentinel calls Kitty Ariel, and Rachel corrects him, saying that she was only Ariel in Rachel's timeline. This does seem to fit with the regular Uncanny run, where Kitty stops using Sprite and is just referred to as Kitty Pryde for some time, until right about now. Still, in some miniseries and such, it does seem that she uses the Ariel codename. Strange.The Sentinel calling Kitty 'Ariel' will happen pretty soon, in Uncanny X-Men 202. While she has used 'Ariel' in the 616 timeline (she mentions in the Kitty/Wolvie limited series that 'Ariel' doesn't fit her, right before naming herself Shadowcat), I think the funny thing about Rachel's comments about the differences between her timeline and the main timeline we read about, is that select things that seemed to be 'constant' back when DoFP was written, are constant in the DoFP timeline; in other words, when writers write a story set in the future, it will feature the main characters of 'the present'. So, no mohawk Storm in DoFP, no Rogue, no Illyana limbo adventure, Kitty was actually known as 'Sprite' in the future segments of Uncanny 141-142, later retconned to be Ariel, but apparently the Kitty/Wolvie limited hadn't taken place either. It's funny to see that, as so much happens in the Marvel Universe, it's impossible for the writers to predict the future of their own characters/storylines, and once they plan out a possible future, it's understandable that they don't want to walk a 'predestined' course in the books.

[CJ Lentze]

Well, here's the letter by Rand B. Lee, I'll let him speak for himself:

Just wanted to register my vote of approval for the change in Ororo. It shocks me still, and I don't particularly like it, but I think it's a necessary step in the evolution of the character. Nature is tranquil, yes, and the original Storm reflected that tranquility, that balance. But nature is also violent, and it takes risks: witness the development of our own species, with too many brains than perhaps are good for us, yet because of that overabundant blessing capable of producing Einsteins and Gandhis and Michelangelos. Storm is an archetypical nature goddess, and like all nature goddesses through history, she has a genuinely dark side. This is what I feel Claremont is exploring; the chaotic side of ordered nature. The risk is that Ororo won't be able to face the chaos in her, and be lost to herself. The lie, of course, is that chaos and cosmos cannot exist in harmony. Storm thinks her gods have rejected her somehow. I think what they've rejected is the immature Ororo; they've decided it's time for her to experience the flip side of creation.

[david r]

Cub, Welcome to the X-Men thread! Hope you survive the experience! (I just HAD To say it!!!) :smile: :smile: Wow, you read the whole thread. Awesome! I like how you say this era is "layered". That is a superb way to describe it. With so many mutants, villains and supporting characters involved, it does feel layered and intricately plotted. Which is why I am loving this era, as well. As you say, there are many different eras of the X-Men, each with their own unique style, but this one is pure Heaven for an X-fan!

Your description of the current characters I couldn't have written any better. I agree 100%. The X-Men are all growing & changing in different ways. This book really defined character growth, back then. There is just so MUCH GOING ON and that I love about this time. As for the 1980s references, they are fun IMO. That is part of the charm of these older issues, I feel. Capturing a certain time and place.

Kitty Pryde was named as Ariel in one of the X-Men annuals. But it didn't stick. She was seldom called Ariel, and just Kitty Pryde. The name "Shadowcat" I find interesting as it recalls the Kitty met in Limbo, named Cat. From the Magik limited series. I wonder if that was intentional. As for the behind-the-scenes stuff, I find it quite fun to learn of it. Growing up, you NEVER even consider that real people are putting out these stories. And that they may not be on the same page. Claremont and Byrne had such a row that they've only worked once since 1980. Not counting UXM #273. Claremont usually has a good relationship with his artists, though.

I agree with your assessment on the X-Men being more "real" in these older issues. Especially during this particular time, these mutants really feel like flesh-and-blood people. It is astonishing how 3-dimensional they've become. It is one of the benefits of one writer staying for so long. That "chop-chop" feel of constantly shifting creative teams is wonderfully absent from this time. The stories flow so well right now, like a slowly moving river, with nothing in the way to stop it.

Cub, I hope you stay for the long haul!

[david r]

Schuimend Mormel, As usual, your considered words illuminate many interesting ideas. I too have thought about accents. I think each reader puts their own "voices" for the characters. Yes, I think Magma should have a Roman accent. It would make sense. But does Selene? She's been alive 2000 years. How would she talk?

I agree with your assessment on Storm. She must be putting up a brave front for her friends. Surely inside, she is shattered. Ororo had arguably the most beautiful mutant powers ever. I cannot imagine losing them. And I suspect her anger level has increased.

That letter by Rand B. Lee is well written. I agree with him, especially his description of "the chaotic side of ordered nature." Chris Claremont is exploring themes here, and using Ororo as the catalyst. Most writers would have Ororo become the "Hardened Warrior" and stopped there. There's years of stories right there, but no. Claremont takes the next step of depowering Ororo. Opening up yet more doors of exploration for the character Storm. And for the X-Men as a whole. You don't find this often in superhero comics. I wonder if Rand B. Lee still reads the books?

[DDM]

Schuimend Mormel, As usual, your considered words illuminate many interesting ideas. I too have thought about accents. I think each reader puts their own "voices" for the characters. Yes, I think Magma should have a Roman accent. It would make sense. But does Selene? She's been alive 2000 years. How would she talk?

Selene is far older than 2,000 years old; she knew Kulan Gath when he was young in the Hyborian Age (http://www.answers.com/topic/hyborian-age) (see Uncanny X-Men #190-191).

Kulan Gath first appears in Conan the Barbarian #14-15:

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/18711732592.14.GIF
http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/18711732592.15.GIF

However, Kulan Gath's first modern appearance is Marvel Team-Up #79 by Chris Claremont & John Byrne:

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/52019311922.79.GIF

Selene's accent may not be able to have any connections with modern society as we know it since she has lived so long, although I am certain she does have a certain accent.

Selene may be the very first mutant in existence; she claims to be ancient when mankind--Homo Sapien--was just emerging.

[Cub]

Dunno why, but I always pictured Selene sounding a bit like Isabella Rosselini. I think I might have seen Death Becomes Her around the same time I first read these Selene issues, and the similarities between the two (hot, foreign, mysterious, ageless femme fatales) must have stuck.

Come to think of it, if/when they do another X-Men film, Mme. Rosselini could kick ass in this role.

[david r]

Selene is far older than 2,000 years old; she knew Kulan Gath when he was young in the Hyborian Age (see Uncanny X-Men #190-191).


I know she mentions somewhere she has lived 2000 years. But what is a thousand year here or there, to one such as Lady Selene? She has so many powers, and even immortality it sounds like, that Selene appears to be one of the most powerful mutants ever!! Will all that power, are you sure Selene is even a true mutant? :confused:

[nikbackm]

Sometimes I feel that these ancient all-powerful mutants does not really fit together with the rest of the mutant world. I liked it better when Namor was the first mutant and mutations were believed to be caused by the increased radioactivity after and during WWII.

It's tempting to just explain away their mutantness with magic (Selene) and technology (Apocalypse).

[ExodusCloak]

I wish Selene took part in the greater Marvel Universe more often, every time there's a magic event she never gets mentioned.(Well there was that one time in Witches but that was half a panel.)

As for the Emma thing I guess it's hard to see how she became a good guy back then but the Classic X-Men back story issues made her much more human IMO and drove her away from the stereotypical evil wench motif.

[DDM]

I know she mentions somewhere she has lived 2000 years. But what is a thousand year here or there, to one such as Lady Selene? She has so many powers, and even immortality it sounds like, that Selene appears to be one of the most powerful mutants ever!! Will all that power, are you sure Selene is even a true mutant? :confused:

Selene spent 2,000 years in exile for unknown reasons; during this time, she help create Nova Roma & help found the city. The Cult of Fire may be as old as Selene herself, but she more than likely started the cult in Nova Roma when she founded the city. Due to her age, she has learned several mystical powers of black & white sorcery. Other mages, fear & respect Selene's power.

Yes, Selene is a mutant. She has the mutant ability to psionically drain the life-force of her victims; as a result she has several superhuman powers:


Selene can project the stolen life-force into inanimate objects to make them come alive or turn into dust; she can also control fire in a similar manner.
Selene has a certain amount of pseudo-telepathy; she uses this telepathy to hunt her victims. She can also blend in with the psychic static to lose other telepaths or she can track other telepaths who attempt to read her mind. Selene's pseudo-telepathy protected her from Mirage's power.
Selene can run as a fast as Quicksilver for short periods of time.
Selene can also instantly hypnotize her victims. She often combines the superhuman speed & hypnotism to make it appear she can teleport.
Selene can lift (press) 1500 pounds.
Selene is immune to knives, guns, etc al; therefore, she is very difficult to kill. Sunspot threw her into molten lava, yet even this did not kill Selene! She just used her powers to control the lava to escape from her exile.


Cerebro detected Selene & Rachel in Uncanny X-Men #184; it is how the X-Men got to scene so quickly.

Selene's sorcery skills is unknown, but she can summon demons & counter spells. You will see in Uncanny X-Men #190-191.

[david r]

So, I see now. Selene was exiled for 2000 years. Thank you, DDM. Reading your list of her powers, Selene must truly be one of the most powerful mutants ever.

[Imraith Nimphais]

and the HOTTEST!...don't forget that...lol...just like some other posters here on the boards with their fav superheroes ( Dazzler, Jean, Storm)...I'm THAT fanatic bout Selene.

[Cub]

Honestly, I am a bit surprised she isn't used more often. When you look at all her powers, she is extremely formidable. She has enhanced physical, psionic, and magical abilities, paired with eons of experience? And she's a sexy foreign cougar who leaves the house wearing nothing but a corset and f*ck me boots? How is she not an a-list villain? Especially now that Emma's playing for our side, a showdown would be amazing.

[DDM]

RE: Kitty as Ariel

Keep in mind, when Kitty is kidnapped by the Morlocks, she is bound to marry Caliban. Get: Ariel & Caliban? Ariel & Caliban both come from William Shakespeare's The Tempest. There has to be some kind of in-joke between Chris Claremont & editor, Louise Simonson...

[DDM]

Honestly, I am a bit surprised she isn't used more often. When you look at all her powers, she is extremely formidable. She has enhanced physical, psionic, and magical abilities, paired with eons of experience? And she's a sexy foreign cougar who leaves the house wearing nothing but a corset and f*ck me boots? How is she not an a-list villain? Especially now that Emma's playing for our side, a showdown would be amazing.

The Hellfire Club usually does things behind the scenes & rarely goes into battle themselves. The Hellfire Club stack the deck in their favor by making backroom deals. Sebastian Shaw does this by the government paying his company, Shaw Industries, to build Sentinels. Emma Frost does something similar with her Hellions at her school, the Massachusetts Academy. Selene has never revealed her reasons in the Inner Circle except she wants Sebastian Shaw's position as leader of the Inner Circle. She can outlive Shaw & Frost with ease & take over the Hellfire Club when they are too old to do anything about it.

[david r]

Imraith Nimphais, Selene is your Goddess? WHO KNEW? Would you be her sex slave?

Cub, So Emma Frost & Selene have NEVER fought each other? That seems hard to believe.

DDM, Nice call on the William Shakespeare reference. No doubt you are correct. I think Chris Claremont was well-steeped in Shakespeare's works. I wonder how many X-fans ever caught that? (See, it pays to read Shakespeare in high school! :tongue: )

Lot of Selene love. If she has been around for millenniums, seems to me she would set her sights higher than the Hellfire Club. Yes they are powerful, but after 2000 years exile, doesn't she want to travel the world? The world she knew is long gone; Selene wouldn't recognize our modern world at all.

[DDM]

Lot of Selene love. If she has been around for millenniums, seems to me she would set her sights higher than the Hellfire Club. Yes they are powerful, but after 2000 years exile, doesn't she want to travel the world? The world she knew is long gone; Selene wouldn't recognize our modern world at all.

Selene uses the Hellfire Club as her base of operations; furthermore, the Hellfire Club already has a worldwide network to the other Hellfire Clubs around the world. The Hellfire Club is also a throwback to 18th Century Victorian Era times; hence, the strange dress code of the men & women. The eccentricities of the Hellfire Club is a perfect match for Selene. Selene also quickly adapts to her new environment as shown in The New Mutants #22-23, Uncanny X-Men #183-184 & #189.

[Imraith Nimphais]

HELL YEAH!!!!David...i'll be her b***h anytime...lol

[david r]

Imraith, even if Selene at your soul? :evilsmile:

--Do we ever see Japanese crimelord Shigematsu again? Did he get away with his crimes?

--So was Ogun a mutant? Or a sorceror? The mini-series says Ogun was planning to possess Kitty Pryde's body. As he had originally planned to do to a younger Logan. But the details were pretty vague. Is Ogun truly immortal? Was that even Ogun's true body, shown in Kitty Pryde and Wolverine ?

--Fun watching Storm grow a fondness for champagne. As she showed in UXM #189. Forge has opened so many new doors for her.

[worstblogever]

--So was Ogun a mutant? Or a sorceror? The mini-series says Ogun was planning to possess Kitty Pryde's body. As he had originally planned to do to a younger Logan. But the details were pretty vague. Is Ogun truly immortal? Was that even Ogun's true body, shown in Kitty Pryde and Wolverine ?.

The funny part is... they never really did say. Here's an entry in marveldatabase.com on him:

http://en.marveldatabase.com/Ogun_(Ninja)

[nikbackm]

The funny part is... they never really did say. Here's an entry in marveldatabase.com on him:

http://en.marveldatabase.com/Ogun_(Ninja)

Ogun's a ninja. Of the non-cannon-fodder variant. That should be more than enough.

[Dr. Ghost]

in issue #155, why is corsair walking in the city with storm?
they don't really explain it; was this just to have 'em in position to be shot at by the brood?

[david r]

in issue #155, why is corsair walking in the city with storm?
they don't really explain it; was this just to have 'em in position to be shot at by the brood?

I think it was just to get them into position to be shot at. But you notice Corsair mentioning how changed New York is--so I think he wanted to see the city again, and Ororo took him on a sight-seeing walk. That's the best explanation I could find.

[Dr. Ghost]

oh, i didn't think of that.
i thought maybe they were heading somewhere that wasn't mentioned.

[david r]

The beauty of Rachel Summers:

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/thumb/5/50/Phoenix_rachael_2.jpg/400px-Phoenix_rachael_2.jpg

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/thumb/a/a3/Phoenix_rachael.jpg/395px-Phoenix_rachael.jpg

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/thumb/a/a4/Rachel_Summers_009.jpg/430px-Rachel_Summers_009.jpg

[worstblogever]

I totally can see her underwear.

[Cub]

Seriously. Why did she even bother wearing the skirt at all?

[DDM]

Seriously. Why did she even bother wearing the skirt at all?

It's a midi-skirt. Essentially, Rachel is wearing an updated version of Jean's Marvel Girl second costume:


http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.137.GIF

Benes should have Rachel's skirt a bit longer though.

[david r]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.190.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #190

"An Age Undreamed Of"

Out of the blue...another masterpiece. Conan the Barbarian arch-foe, Kulan Gath, has turned Manhattan into a replica of Conan's savage world, Cimmeria. Many superheroes are cast into warrior heroes. The Morlocks are topside, serving as savage police for Kulan Gath. Only Spider-Man is unaffected. 25 pages of action for 60 cents. This is fantastic! :smile:

The U.S. military forces surround Manhattan island. In a mesmerizing two-page spread, John Romita Jr. draws Manhattan turned into a city of ancient lore. Most of the Avengers are here, turned into warriors. The X-Men are included, all transformed and unaware of their previous lives. Storm is present, (what about her leaving for Africa in UXM #189?) Apparently, her cruise ship had not left port, as Kulan Gath's spell overwhelmed Manhattan. Ororo awakens and is carried away by Morlocks, with Callisto the head. Callisto is also changed with no memory of her modern life. Ororo knocks over hot coals and escapes their clutches, climbing up the mast-head, with vengenful Callisto hot on her heels. As the large vessel burns and sinks, the 2 hated women fight it out. Storm gets slashed in the tummy by a knife. They dive off the mast-head into the river. (This part is a real highlight.)

In Kulan Gath's inner sanctum, Charles Xavier and Morlock [/B] Caliban [/B] appear (it's never explained HOW they got there.) Gath's mystical spell combines Xavier and Caliban together physically (see cover) and they become a monstrous "fusion" of the two mutants. Kulan controls them and Xavier's mental powers. He uses this to take possession of the New Mutants. Only the alien member Warlock escapes, as Gath's mystics do not control him. Dr. Strange is also powerless, rendered mute and powerless. Kulan is one mean sumbitch. However, the sneaky sorceress Selene has also escaped Gath's spells and is sneaking around the city. Selene locates Magma and Rachel Summers in the lowly streets of ancient Manhattan and renders their help.

Meanwhile, Spider-Man is being chased by the New Mutants. Spidey is completely unaffected by Kulan Gath's spells, and runs into a tavern. The Avengers are within, and as the Morlocks smash in to capture Spider-Man and Illyana Rasputin, a mighty brawl breaks out the likes of which haven't been seen since Conan's day!! New Mutants and Morlocks versus Avengers & X-Men, all turned into wild barbaric semblances of their true selves. AWESOME! Selene suddenly materializes and brutally kills the Morlocks! Rachel and Magma are with her, under her control. She wants them all to unite to defeat their mututal enemy, Kulan. But you can't keep a good evil magician down. Kulan Gath's "head" Appears and swallow Selene in his mouth, before the heroes eyes!! Kulan has taken a shine to these mutants, and wants them to join his ranks. Kulan plans to overwhelm the entire Earth, and turn it into his own realm. The mutant are to help him...or die. That night, the X-Men & Avengers sit by a campfire and plan their strategy. Captain America plans to fight on to the end. And Storm agrees, saying stealth and cunning must be used against Gath's mystical might. They all stand, prepared for battle as the savage, long-haired Captain America yells AVENGERS ASSEMBLE!

My thoughts: Romita and Claremont fire on all cylinders, in a 25-page extravaganza that would make Conan and Robert E. Howard proud! I love seeing Conan's greatest foe, Kulan Gath, unleashed in 616 Marvel universe, and tackling our heroes. Possessing some, losing others. Storm is here....making her farewell to the X-Men in #189 rather pointless. But that is a minor complaint, as her battle on the large rowing-ship against the Morlocks was spellbinding. I also greatly enjoyed seeing alternate versions of X-Men & Avengers; especially Colossus' cool viking helmet! But alas, Charles Xavier is looking poorer. It was quite gruesome what Kulan Gath does to Xavier & Caliban. Kind of creepy to see Xavier controlled like a slave. But overall, this looks like another epic crammed into a comic book. Priceless.

[Cub]

It's a midi-skirt. Essentially, Rachel is wearing an updated version of Jean's Marvel Girl second costume:


http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.137.GIF

Benes should have Rachel's skirt a bit longer though.

Well, yes, I know. And Im sure Jean is thrilled that her daughter is honoring her by looking like the dvd cover of the latest Girls Gone Wild dvd.

I kid, I kid.

As far as this arc goes, to be honest I never cared for it. It just seemed to come out of nowhere. Is it tied into an Avengers story arc? There are some aspects I like, such as the evil New Mutants and Callisto and Storm's uneasy (and at the time unlikely) alliance. By the way, I love their relationship and wish it wasn't forgotten about today But on the whole, this doesn't do it for me.

[worstblogever]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.190.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #190

"An Age Undreamed Of"

Out of the blue...another masterpiece. Conan the Barbarian arch-foe, Kulan Gath, has turned Manhattan into a replica of Conan's savage world, Cimmeria. Many superheroes are cast into warrior heroes. The Morlocks are topside, serving as savage police for Kulan Gath. Only Spider-Man is unaffected. 25 pages of action for 60 cents. This is fantastic! :smile:

The U.S. military forces surround Manhattan island. In a mesmerizing two-page spread, John Romita Jr. draws Manhattan turned into a city of ancient lore. Most of the Avengers are here, turned into warriors. The X-Men are included, all transformed and unaware of their previous lives. Storm is present, (what about her leaving for Africa in UXM #189?) Apparently, her cruise ship had not left port, as Kulan Gath's spell overwhelmed Manhattan. Ororo awakens and is carried away by Morlocks, with Callisto the head. Callisto is also changed with no memory of her modern life. Ororo knocks over hot coals and escapes their clutches, climbing up the mast-head, with vengenful Callisto hot on her heels. As the large vessel burns and sinks, the 2 hated women fight it out. Storm gets slashed in the tummy by a knife. They dive off the mast-head into the river. (This part is a real highlight.)

In Kulan Gath's inner sanctum, Charles Xavier and Morlock [/B] Caliban [/B] appear (it's never explained HOW they got there.) Gath's mystical spell combines Xavier and Caliban together physically (see cover) and they become a monstrous "fusion" of the two mutants. Kulan controls them and Xavier's mental powers. He uses this to take possession of the New Mutants. Only the alien member Warlock escapes, as Gath's mystics do not control him. Dr. Strange is also powerless, rendered mute and powerless. Kulan is one mean sumbitch. However, the sneaky sorceress Selene has also escaped Gath's spells and is sneaking around the city. Selene locates Magma and Rachel Summers in the lowly streets of ancient Manhattan and renders their help.

Meanwhile, Spider-Man is being chased by the New Mutants. Spidey is completely unaffected by Kulan Gath's spells, and runs into a tavern. The Avengers are within, and as the Morlocks smash in to capture Spider-Man and Illyana Rasputin, a mighty brawl breaks out the likes of which haven't been seen since Conan's day!! New Mutants and Morlocks versus Avengers & X-Men, all turned into wild barbaric semblances of their true selves. AWESOME! Selene suddenly materializes and brutally kills the Morlocks! Rachel and Magma are with her, under her control. She wants them all to unite to defeat their mututal enemy, Kulan. But you can't keep a good evil magician down. Kulan Gath's "head" Appears and swallow Selene in his mouth, before the heroes eyes!! Kulan has taken a shine to these mutants, and wants them to join his ranks. Kulan plans to overwhelm the entire Earth, and turn it into his own realm. The mutant are to help him...or die. That night, the X-Men & Avengers sit by a campfire and plan their strategy. Captain America plans to fight on to the end. And Storm agrees, saying stealth and cunning must be used against Gath's mystical might. They all stand, prepared for battle as the savage, long-haired Captain America yells AVENGERS ASSEMBLE!

My thoughts: Romita and Claremont fire on all cylinders, in a 25-page extravaganza that would make Conan and Robert E. Howard proud! I love seeing Conan's greatest foe, Kulan Gath, unleashed in 616 Marvel universe, and tackling our heroes. Possessing some, losing others. Storm is here....making her farewell to the X-Men in #189 rather pointless. But that is a minor complaint, as her battle on the large rowing-ship against the Morlocks was spellbinding. I also greatly enjoyed seeing alternate versions of X-Men & Avengers; especially Colossus' cool viking helmet! But alas, Charles Xavier is looking poorer. It was quite gruesome what Kulan Gath does to Xavier & Caliban. Kind of creepy to see Xavier controlled like a slave. But overall, this looks like another epic crammed into a comic book. Priceless.

How Dr. Strange is affected, but Spider-Man, Storm, and Selene are not always seemed ridiculous to me. While the sheer number of characters in this story is impressive, it's another one of those, "None of this will matter once this all gets straightened out" interludes.

Which is how I look at the whole of Claremont's work with Exiles, currently. Except in that case, there's no end to the multiple alternate Earths involved.

[david r]

Cub, I hear you about this arc coming out of nowhere. I do not believe it's tied into an Avengers arc. It's been an X-MEN subplot for the last few issues, where a construction worker found that large necklace, which housed Kulan Gath. He was freed in UXM #189---which lead to this epic. I agree with you about Storm and Callisto having a cool rivalry. When Callisto knifes Ororo's stomach, was it going to be "pay-back" for Ororo gutting Callisto in #170?

Worstbloggy, Storm IS affected by Kulan Gath. Only people with super-strong mystic powers can withstand Kulan Gath's spell, transforming Manhattan into Cimmeria. Like Selene, who we learn knows Gath very well. I think Dr. Strange got taken out so easy because Gath was gunning for him from the get-go.

But yes, at the end of the day, none of this will matter once this all gets straightened out. :tongue: But that's true for most comic stories?

[Shade101]

Uncanny X-Men #190 wasn't really one of my favorites. It was alright, and had plenty of action packed parts in it, but altogether it didn't really capture my attention and take hold of it.

[Yogaflame]

I love this arc! This issue sets it up, the next seals the deal. I guess I wont spoil the ending for those who havn't read it yet but....:biggrin:

[DDM]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.190.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #190

"An Age Undreamed Of"

Out of the blue...another masterpiece. Conan the Barbarian arch-foe, Kulan Gath, has turned Manhattan into a replica of Conan's savage world, Cimmeria. Many superheroes are cast into warrior heroes. The Morlocks are topside, serving as savage police for Kulan Gath. Only Spider-Man is unaffected. 25 pages of action for 60 cents. This is fantastic! :smile:

The U.S. military forces surround Manhattan island. In a mesmerizing two-page spread, John Romita Jr. draws Manhattan turned into a city of ancient lore. Most of the Avengers are here, turned into warriors. The X-Men are included, all transformed and unaware of their previous lives. Storm is present, (what about her leaving for Africa in UXM #189?) Apparently, her cruise ship had not left port, as Kulan Gath's spell overwhelmed Manhattan. Ororo awakens and is carried away by Morlocks, with Callisto the head. Callisto is also changed with no memory of her modern life. Ororo knocks over hot coals and escapes their clutches, climbing up the mast-head, with vengenful Callisto hot on her heels. As the large vessel burns and sinks, the 2 hated women fight it out. Storm gets slashed in the tummy by a knife. They dive off the mast-head into the river. (This part is a real highlight.)

In Kulan Gath's inner sanctum, Charles Xavier and Morlock [/B] Caliban [/B] appear (it's never explained HOW they got there.) Gath's mystical spell combines Xavier and Caliban together physically (see cover) and they become a monstrous "fusion" of the two mutants. Kulan controls them and Xavier's mental powers. He uses this to take possession of the New Mutants. Only the alien member Warlock escapes, as Gath's mystics do not control him. Dr. Strange is also powerless, rendered mute and powerless. Kulan is one mean sumbitch. However, the sneaky sorceress Selene has also escaped Gath's spells and is sneaking around the city. Selene locates Magma and Rachel Summers in the lowly streets of ancient Manhattan and renders their help.

Meanwhile, Spider-Man is being chased by the New Mutants. Spidey is completely unaffected by Kulan Gath's spells, and runs into a tavern. The Avengers are within, and as the Morlocks smash in to capture Spider-Man and Illyana Rasputin, a mighty brawl breaks out the likes of which haven't been seen since Conan's day!! New Mutants and Morlocks versus Avengers & X-Men, all turned into wild barbaric semblances of their true selves. AWESOME! Selene suddenly materializes and brutally kills the Morlocks! Rachel and Magma are with her, under her control. She wants them all to unite to defeat their mututal enemy, Kulan. But you can't keep a good evil magician down. Kulan Gath's "head" Appears and swallow Selene in his mouth, before the heroes eyes!! Kulan has taken a shine to these mutants, and wants them to join his ranks. Kulan plans to overwhelm the entire Earth, and turn it into his own realm. The mutant are to help him...or die. That night, the X-Men & Avengers sit by a campfire and plan their strategy. Captain America plans to fight on to the end. And Storm agrees, saying stealth and cunning must be used against Gath's mystical might. They all stand, prepared for battle as the savage, long-haired Captain America yells AVENGERS ASSEMBLE!

My thoughts: Romita and Claremont fire on all cylinders, in a 25-page extravaganza that would make Conan and Robert E. Howard proud! I love seeing Conan's greatest foe, Kulan Gath, unleashed in 616 Marvel universe, and tackling our heroes. Possessing some, losing others. Storm is here....making her farewell to the X-Men in #189 rather pointless. But that is a minor complaint, as her battle on the large rowing-ship against the Morlocks was spellbinding. I also greatly enjoyed seeing alternate versions of X-Men & Avengers; especially Colossus' cool viking helmet! But alas, Charles Xavier is looking poorer. It was quite gruesome what Kulan Gath does to Xavier & Caliban. Kind of creepy to see Xavier controlled like a slave. But overall, this looks like another epic crammed into a comic book. Priceless.

Kulan Gath comes from Marvel Team-Up #79 when he fought Spider-Man & Red Sonja in a museum; he believed himself to be in a temple until he is forced outside into the real modern world. The modern world overwhelms Kulan Gath that he retreats back into his enchanted neglace. Spider-Man actually defeats Kulan Gath by accident when a window shatters & Gath is thrown on the sidewalk. Kulan Gath planned to sacrifice Spider-Man & Red Sonja to the N'garai demons. Red Sonja is actually a possessed Mary-Jane Watson!

Spider-Man may be immune to Gath's spell since he has developed some sort of fear of Spider-Man after their first encounter...

This is why Kulan Gath plans to reshape the world into his image in Uncanny X-Men #190-191.

Pick up Marvel Team-Up #79 since the story is by Chris Claremont (story), John Byrne (pencils) & Terry Austin (inks).

[CJ Lentze]

So, has Kitty lost all the skills Ogun taught her, or does it still remain in her subconscious? I had thought it would stay with her, but during the mini it was mentioned that -after she was 'deprogrammed' by Wolvie- her ninja skills started to fade.

[DDM]

So, has Kitty lost all the skills Ogun taught her, or does it still remain in her subconscious? I had thought it would stay with her, but during the mini it was mentioned that -after she was 'deprogrammed' by Wolvie- her ninja skills started to fade.

Kitty remembers most of the ninja skills she learned while being possessed by Ogun; it's the main reason she changed her identity from Ariel to Shadowcat.

[david r]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.191.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #191

"Raiders of the Lost Temple"

1st appearance: Nimrod

Another kickass epic barrels to a bloody conclusion--as Kulan Gath's quest for world domination comes to a head. Many heroes perish---and an awesome twist concerning a raven-haired sorceress that floored me. :smile:

This issue begins with Spider-Man being horribly tortured by Gath and his warriors. Many superheroes & mutants are under Gath's spell, which encompasses Manhattan and has turned it into a replica of Conan the Barbarian's Cimmerian world. The New Mutants, Morlocks and Charles Xavier are all under his control. Selene is also captured, and there is a hint of rape with Kulan's guards. Kulan erases her mouth and gives her tentacles for arms. Kulan Gath is a merciless Master. But the most gruesome of all is what he did to Caliban/Charles Xavier; merging them into one being!! This story may leave you with a few nightmares! :evilsmile: The heroes of the tale, made up of X-Men and Avengers, transverse through this transformed Big Apple, looking for a way to stop Gath from transforming the entire planet! They discover a red-haired woman named Arilynn, who figures into this adventure. The heroes are continually attacked by possessed slaves like Vision, Scarlet Witch, Wasp and the like. Vision and Colossus have a cool one-on-one battle and blow each other up!

Rogue is stabbed in the back, and is killed. Which sends Storm into a fury rage! Cannonball too is slain, in the revelry. Captain America's wild head of blonde hair makes him resemble Thor! The new robot-alien Warlock is one of the few to remember the "real world". He grabs Storm and they escape the fray. Warlock shows her images of her true self, and Ororo's memory grows, she realizes this barbaric world is a lie. Eventually, the heroes break their way into Kulan Gath's inner fortress, but keep losing members. Gath often turning them into grotesque masques of their true selves. The biggest hero perhaps is Spider-Man, who has been crucified in a temple with yellow "daggers" hanging him. Spider-Man knows how to stop Gath----by removing the magical amulet which hangs from his neck. Peter Parker agonizingly tears himself from the cross, yelling to remove the amulet. Unfortunately, none of the heroes can understand him---for they now only speak Cimmerian!! Gath is amused and ends Spider-Man's life!! However, hiding and watching is Warlock, who is free from Gath's spells. Warlock DOES understand Spider-Man, and tells Storm to remove the amulet.

Warlock mutates into jet-powered wings, and flies Ororo down into the temple. As Warlock encases Gath, Ororo snatches the amulet from his neck. But it is spirited out of her hands and into........... Selene!! Selene, who we thought was captured by Kulan, was instead posing as Magma!! Her true identity revealed, Selene holds the amulet and laughs at how easy it was to delude Kulan Gath AND the heroes! Magma herself is truly imprisoned by Kulan. A volcano erupts from Magma, sending Kulan Gath down into his doom, and destroying Warlock with hot lava. But Warlock reaches out to Storm...and Ororo accepts his hand! Ororo is transformed into a techno-organic being, and she screams in agony as her humanity is lost. This Ororo touches Selene, who is taken by surprise and is ALSO transformed into techno-organic! Selene's quest for conquest is abruptly, and totally, destroyed! Selene becomes inert.

Kulan Gath & Selene have been stopped. However, Manhattan remains transformed into Cimmeria. Doctor Strange Master of the Mystic Arts, bonds with Illyana Rasputin and they manipulate the forces of time. Strange and Illyana actually "change" time--erasing the hours that Kulan Gath controlled reality. Sending all of reality into the moment BEFORE Kulan Gath's spell took over. All the deaths are erased, all the heroes are put back as they were before. Only those present in the fortress remember what actually transpired. Captain America says he'll remember how the mutants helped save the day. Meanwhile, as the moment that Kulan Gath was MEANT to take control of that mugger (in UXM #189), a strange purple-hewed "Being" appears to murders the mugger. The strange being notices mutants exist in this world. They must be found...and obliterated.

My thoughts: Sure, this two-part adventure might not be remembered, as it's events were erased from the time-stream. But WOW, what a grand tale it was! I especially liked the final confrontation with Kulan Gath, Spider-Man and Selene in the inner sanctum. That was spellbinding and truly suspenseful. Peter Parker sacrificed his life as a true hero would. Selene's treachery took me completely by surprise! But I loved it and it was one of my favorite moments in all of this. Very clever plot twist, Claremont. Kulan Gath himself was a despicable monster that you really grow to despise. also liked all the many heroes and villains running around and this all goes down in two 25-page issues. Decompressed this is NOT! A must.

[Falconen]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.191.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #191

"Raiders of the Lost Temple"

1st appearance: Nimrod

Another kickass epic barrels to a bloody conclusion--as Kulan Gath's quest for world domination comes to a head. Many heroes perish---and an awesome twist concerning a raven-haired sorceress that floored me. :smile:

This issue begins with Spider-Man being horribly tortured by Gath and his warriors. Many superheroes & mutants are under Gath's spell, which encompasses Manhattan and has turned it into a replica of Conan the Barbarian's Cimmerian world. The New Mutants, Morlocks and Charles Xavier are all under his control. Selene is also captured, and there is a hint of rape with Kulan's guards. Kulan erases her mouth and gives her tentacles for arms. Kulan Gath is a merciless Master. But the most gruesome of all is what he did to Caliban/Charles Xavier; merging them into one being!! This story may leave you with a few nightmares! :evilsmile: The heroes of the tale, made up of X-Men and Avengers, transverse through this transformed Big Apple, looking for a way to stop Gath from transforming the entire planet! They discover a red-haired woman named Arilynn, who figures into this adventure. The heroes are continually attacked by possessed slaves like Vision, Scarlet Witch, Wasp and the like. Vision and Colossus have a cool one-on-one battle and blow each other up!

Rogue is stabbed in the back, and is killed. Which sends Storm into a fury rage! Cannonball too is slain, in the revelry. Captain America's [/B] wild head of blonde hair makes him resemble Thor! The new robot-alien Warlock is one of the few to remember the "real world". He grabs Storm and they escape the fray. Warlock shows her images of her true self, and Ororo's memory grows, she realizes this barbaric world is a lie. Eventually, the heroes break their way into Kulan Gath's inner fortress, but keep losing members. Gath often turning them into grotesque masques of their true selves. The biggest hero perhaps is Spider-Man, who has been crucified in a temple with yellow "daggers" hanging him. Spider-Man knows how to stop Gath----by removing the magical amulet which hangs from his neck. Peter Parker agonizingly tears himself from the cross, yelling to remove the amulet. Unfortunately, none of the heroes can understand him---for they now only speak Cimmerian!! Gath is amused and ends Spider-Man's life!! However, hiding and watching is Warlock, who is free from Gath's spells. Warlock DOES understand Spider-Man, and tells Storm to remove the amulet.

Warlock mutates into jet-powered wings, and flies Ororo down into the temple. As Warlock encases Gath, Ororo snatches the amulet from his neck. But it is spirited out of her hands and into........... Selene!! Selene, who we thought was captured by Kulan, was instead posing as Magma!! Her true identity revealed, Selene holds the amulet and laughs at how easy it was to delude Kulan Gath AND the heroes! Magma herself is truly imprisoned by Kulan. A volcano erupts from Magma, sending Kulan Gath down into his doom, and destroying Warlock with hot lava. But Warlock reaches out to Storm...and Ororo accepts his hand! Ororo is transformed into a techno-organic being, and she screams in agony as her humanity is lost. This Ororo touches Selene, who is taken by surprise and is ALSO transformed into techno-organic! Selene's quest for conquest is abruptly, and totally, destroyed! Selene becomes inert.

Kulan Gath & Selene have been stopped. However, Manhattan remains transformed into Cimmeria. Doctor Strange Master of the Mystic Arts, bonds with Illyana Rasputin and they manipulate the forces of time. Strange and Illyana actually "change" time--erasing the hours that Kulan Gath controlled reality. Sending all of reality into the moment BEFORE Kulan Gath's spell took over. All the deaths are erased, all the heroes are put back as they were before. Only those present in the fortress remember what actually transpired. Captain America says he'll remember how the mutants helped save the day. Meanwhile, as the moment that Kulan Gath was MEANT to take control of that mugger (in UXM #189), a strange purple-hewed "Being" appears to murders the mugger. The strange being notices mutants exist in this world. They must be found...and obliterated.

My thoughts: Sure, this two-part adventure might not be remembered, as it's events were erased from the time-stream. But WOW, what a grand tale it was! I especially liked the final confrontation with Kulan Gath, Spider-Man and Selene in the inner sanctum. That was spellbinding and truly suspenseful. Peter Parker sacrificed his life as a true hero would. Selene's treachery took me completely by surprise! But I loved it and it was one of my favorite moments in all of this. Very clever plot twist, Claremont. Kulan Gath himself was a despicable monster that you really grow to despise. also liked all the many heroes and villains running around and this all goes down in two 25-page issues. Decompressed this is NOT! A must.

These were a very fun 2 issues. I really liked the inclusion of the Avengers as well as the Morlocks (where were the FF at this time). I have always been a sucker for Dystopian futures (reading about them, not living them:smile: ), and this story was a different kind of play on that.
Which people get pulled over to each side is interesting, as well as the brutality of some/ most of the deaths. Vision and Collosus' battle ended very messily. The NM were unfortunately, just cannon fodder, but Warlock saved the day in the end by transmuting Storm, who in turned transmuted and drained Selene. A lot of quick twists and turns there at the end.
I also like how the ending actually altered reality a little more than they realized... and not necessarily for the good of Mutants.

[worstblogever]

Spider-Jesus dies for your sins.

Claremont writes his first instance of female protagonist having her limbs turned into tentacles (see also, Grey, Jean, and Callisto).

Random redhead hottie in a cameo.

Warlock and a powerless Storm save the world.

The countless deaths are rendered moot by Dr. Strange and Magik working together to create a spell that like... makes Superman fly around the world backwards, I guess, and reverse time.

Just... so much insanity in this issue. And not in a way I enjoyed.

[Imraith Nimphais]

These last two issues I found, were quite entertaining. I really loved reading the classic "Conan the Barbarian" novels by R. E. Howard and other "sword and sorcery" type books back then...(I still do actually)...and to see that "world" depicted in the pages of my favourite comic was pure fun...it was like fantasy within fantasy...For me, I really liked that it showed the X-men interacting with and working alongside the Avengers...that they were not a world separate unto themselves and that they are greatly respected among the superhuman community.

[DDM]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.191.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #191

"Raiders of the Lost Temple"

1st appearance: Nimrod

Another kickass epic barrels to a bloody conclusion--as Kulan Gath's quest for world domination comes to a head. Many heroes perish---and an awesome twist concerning a raven-haired sorceress that floored me. :smile:

This issue begins with Spider-Man being horribly tortured by Gath and his warriors. Many superheroes & mutants are under Gath's spell, which encompasses Manhattan and has turned it into a replica of Conan the Barbarian's Cimmerian world. The New Mutants, Morlocks and Charles Xavier are all under his control. Selene is also captured, and there is a hint of rape with Kulan's guards. Kulan erases her mouth and gives her tentacles for arms. Kulan Gath is a merciless Master. But the most gruesome of all is what he did to Caliban/Charles Xavier; merging them into one being!! This story may leave you with a few nightmares! :evilsmile: The heroes of the tale, made up of X-Men and Avengers, transverse through this transformed Big Apple, looking for a way to stop Gath from transforming the entire planet! They discover a red-haired woman named Arilynn, who figures into this adventure. The heroes are continually attacked by possessed slaves like Vision, Scarlet Witch, Wasp and the like. Vision and Colossus have a cool one-on-one battle and blow each other up!

Rogue is stabbed in the back, and is killed. Which sends Storm into a fury rage! Cannonball too is slain, in the revelry. Captain America's [/B] wild head of blonde hair makes him resemble Thor! The new robot-alien Warlock is one of the few to remember the "real world". He grabs Storm and they escape the fray. Warlock shows her images of her true self, and Ororo's memory grows, she realizes this barbaric world is a lie. Eventually, the heroes break their way into Kulan Gath's inner fortress, but keep losing members. Gath often turning them into grotesque masques of their true selves. The biggest hero perhaps is Spider-Man, who has been crucified in a temple with yellow "daggers" hanging him. Spider-Man knows how to stop Gath----by removing the magical amulet which hangs from his neck. Peter Parker agonizingly tears himself from the cross, yelling to remove the amulet. Unfortunately, none of the heroes can understand him---for they now only speak Cimmerian!! Gath is amused and ends Spider-Man's life!! However, hiding and watching is Warlock, who is free from Gath's spells. Warlock DOES understand Spider-Man, and tells Storm to remove the amulet.

Warlock mutates into jet-powered wings, and flies Ororo down into the temple. As Warlock encases Gath, Ororo snatches the amulet from his neck. But it is spirited out of her hands and into........... Selene!! Selene, who we thought was captured by Kulan, was instead posing as Magma!! Her true identity revealed, Selene holds the amulet and laughs at how easy it was to delude Kulan Gath AND the heroes! Magma herself is truly imprisoned by Kulan. A volcano erupts from Magma, sending Kulan Gath down into his doom, and destroying Warlock with hot lava. But Warlock reaches out to Storm...and Ororo accepts his hand! Ororo is transformed into a techno-organic being, and she screams in agony as her humanity is lost. This Ororo touches Selene, who is taken by surprise and is ALSO transformed into techno-organic! Selene's quest for conquest is abruptly, and totally, destroyed! Selene becomes inert.

Kulan Gath & Selene have been stopped. However, Manhattan remains transformed into Cimmeria. Doctor Strange Master of the Mystic Arts, bonds with Illyana Rasputin and they manipulate the forces of time. Strange and Illyana actually "change" time--erasing the hours that Kulan Gath controlled reality. Sending all of reality into the moment BEFORE Kulan Gath's spell took over. All the deaths are erased, all the heroes are put back as they were before. Only those present in the fortress remember what actually transpired. Captain America says he'll remember how the mutants helped save the day. Meanwhile, as the moment that Kulan Gath was MEANT to take control of that mugger (in UXM #189), a strange purple-hewed "Being" appears to murders the mugger. The strange being notices mutants exist in this world. They must be found...and obliterated.

My thoughts: Sure, this two-part adventure might not be remembered, as it's events were erased from the time-stream. But WOW, what a grand tale it was! I especially liked the final confrontation with Kulan Gath, Spider-Man and Selene in the inner sanctum. That was spellbinding and truly suspenseful. Peter Parker sacrificed his life as a true hero would. Selene's treachery took me completely by surprise! But I loved it and it was one of my favorite moments in all of this. Very clever plot twist, Claremont. Kulan Gath himself was a despicable monster that you really grow to despise. also liked all the many heroes and villains running around and this all goes down in two 25-page issues. Decompressed this is NOT! A must.

I have reread Uncanny X-Men #191 numerous times to see possibly when Selene switched places with Amara; however, I cannot find it anywhere in the story. Selene could have also switched places with Amara after she was captured. I believe this is what happened.

I love the introduction of Nimrod, also from Rachel's future Earth. He's an interesting, different Sentinel that we have never seen before. He's almost human. He is really a good contrast with the Master Mold II introduced in The Incredible Hulk Annual #7. Nimrod is the consequence Doctor Strange is talking about, although the X-Men are unaware when they encounter him in Uncanny X-Men #194.

The Kulan Gath reality became an alternate timeline.

[david r]

Falconen, I wondered too about the Fantastic Four. I guess they were out of town. And as you say, the heroes altered more reality than they expected. Another clever twist. Chris Claremont went all-out in this story. Characters die, some brutally so. I also think CC juggled such a huge cast of mutants & superheroes in an admirable way. I don't think he'd ever handled so many before.

Spider-Jesus dies for your sins.

You might go to Hell for that. :evilsmile: But I bless you for mentioning the "random red-head hottie":---who WAS Arilynn? Anyone know? Did she appear in that Marvel Team-Up issue with Kulan Gath?

I enjoyed this random epic. Sure it was reality-wiped, but several of the heroes remember it. The climactic showdown was great.

Imraith Nimphais, I think your portrayal of "sword and sorcery" is a fine way to describe this adventure. Claremont brought a swashbuckling/Conan feel to modern Marvel and this was a nice little saga sandwiched in two issues, which few readers seem aware of. (I have noticed that MAGIC has played a major role in many X-MEN stories of late.)

DDM, I think when Magma admits she couldn't use her powers in #191, was when Selene had changed places with her. Even Captain America wonders about that. It was a subtle hint that you don't catch until after you've read the issue.

DDM, what "consequence" did Dr. Strange say? Which you referred to? Also, I wonder if those guards raped Amara, in #191, which Kulan Gath hints to.

[Falconen]

DDM, what "consequence" did Dr. Strange say? Which you referred to?

david, I think DDM was referring to the altered past where the robot showed up out of no where, killed the potential mugger and stopped Kulan Gath from possessing that guy and starting the process over.

[worstblogever]

You might go to Hell for that. :evilsmile:

I have other stuff I definitely will, so it's all good. :wink:

[DDM]

DDM, what "consequence" did Dr. Strange say? Which you referred to?

david, I think DDM was referring to the altered past where the robot showed up out of no where, killed the potential mugger and stopped Kulan Gath from possessing that guy and starting the process over.

I am referring to super Sentinel, Nimrod. He was lost in the timestream until Doctor Strange's spell brought him to the mainstream Marvel Universe Earth.

[david r]

I see, you meant what Dr. Strange did and said at the end of UXM #191. I thought you meant Strange had done something in that Incredible Hulk Annual.

Mutants playing around with time. If only the human race knew about THAT!!

[david r]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.192.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #192

"Funs 'N' Games"

Another boisterous X-Men romp, as our heroes get "jigsawed" by a subplot from New Mutants. A lot of characters, a lot of plots, and a lot of action adventure. :smile:

The issue begins with a moonlight training session, only in the outdoors around Breakstone Lake. We learn Kurt Wagner, Nightcrawler, has become new team leader, with Storm having stepped down. "Nighty"--as Rogue calls him here--enjoys training in natural outdoors (as we've seen him do with Wolverine on several occasions.) Kurt is running thru fighting routines with Colossus and Rogue, as we also learn that Rogue may have a provocative 7th sense, thanks to Carol Danvers' powers she absorbed. However, Rogue has never noticed any seventh sense. Kurt tickles her up and down, sending Rogue into hysterics. It ignites a "super-sense" within her as he bamfs all around, and she pummels him, sensing his next tickle. Her 7th sense is apparently real. However, Kurt puckers up to playfully kiss Rogue as a jest; but the southern belle cannot kiss, and takes this as an offense. Rogue flies away near tears. Just as a huge, bright light comes flying down from the sky, and crashes behind a ruined mansion near the lake, called the Robeson place.

As this is all going down, Charles Xavier, Storm, Rachel Summers and Illyana Rasputin are in NYC at Kennedy Airport, picking up Wolverine and Kitty Pryde, returning from Japan and their outstanding epic from their mini-series. Illyana is hiding Lockheed in a backpack, so he can welcome back his beloved Kitty. Peter Rasputin is absent, and Illyana is upset with her brother for letting down his "Katya". Meanwhile, Rachel goes into a weird flashback/flash-forward of her menacing world from Days of Future Past. Rachel is wearing her black Hound costume, and Maori Mask. She and a much older Kate Pryde are breaking into a top secret cyberobotics comples, in this hellish future-world of Marvel. They make it to the nerve center of something called Project Nimrod. Kate says once Rachel is "safe", she'll be free to deal with Nimrod. (These events must come AFTER Uncanny X-Men #141-142.) Kate says the words "Dark Phoenix" and Rachel time-slips into our present-day 616 Marvel universe. Where Rachel is now residing. Rachel is awoken from this memory by 15-year-old Kitty Pryde, as she and Logan disembark from their airplane and hug the X-Men in the airport. Kitty does a double-take, and recognizes Rachel!!

Back in Westchester, Colossus, Rogue and Nightcrawler discover what crash-landed. It is Magus: Warlock's alien, techno-organic "father", who has come to claim his son's life. They fight Magus in the ruined mansion by the Breakstone Lake, doing quite well actually against the powerful alien being. Rogue eventually kisses Magus on his mouth (I won't say lips, I don't think Magus has any!) Rogue absorbs his techno-organic essence, but it is too much for her as she careens out of control from the house! The 3 X-Men stand as the mansion erupts in flames, and a large hologram of Magus appears saying he could tear our world apart if he so wished. But they fought with courage, therefore their existence may continue. Magus wants Warlock delivered to him...or your world will suffer the consequences.

Reenforcements arrive, as the whole assembled X-Men scour the burning mansion for Magus' presence. But he has vanished. Kurt questions his leadership abilities and tactics in the fight. He thinks he should have left someone to watch for Magus. Wolverine says he done good; and Logan does not desire the leadership role. We now jump several months later, at Columbia University, where Professor Charles Xavier has begun teaching classes. It is late, and Xavier is leaving the prestigious university, saying farewells to students. He is soon assaulted by a gang of thugs, who throw a brick at his head and then punch and kick Xavier into a bloody mess. Xavier's bruised and battered body lies on the sidewalk, in a pool of blood, as the thugs depart. A mysterious figures grabs Xavier's trenchcoat and drags him into an alleyway. His books lay behind, blown by the snowy air, and a Christmas card opens, soaked in blood, with the words "Peace on earth...good will to men...Happy New Year! Your Students!"

My thoughts: I greatly enjoyed this issue. Kurt Wagner has ascended to team leader, and I couldn't be happier. Kurt shows much maturity, and seems attuned to the other X-Men, on an emotional level. Which will work well for him in handling this role. My only qualm is we never saw the decision made for "Nighty" to become leader. (I am sure Storm is grieving over this loss.) I liked the arrival of Magus (but from his New Mutants appearance) he should easily have destroyed the mutants. Magus split a huge sun once!! This guy is power-fullll! I wonder if something on Earth is weakening him. As for Rachel Summers rememberance of things future, I am extremely intrigued and want to know more about "Project Nimrod"! So much stuff here to explore, all squeezed into 22 pages!! I adore it. And of course......that shocking ending! It was like a hammer hitting me! A pretty shocking statement there. Another classy comic from Claremont/Romita!

[worstblogever]

Ah, Xavier clearly is gaybashed! (reference to the Uncanny #501 thread for those who didn't get the joke) All kidding aside, this sets up quite the turn for the moral better of a recurring character next issue. Interesting side-plot.

Magus' first appearance, and damn does he intimidate.

While Wolverine is pretty forgiving of Kurt as a leader, his tickling and flirtations with Rogue are pretty insensitive ways of checking for her 7th sense, and cheering her up. Not his finest moments as a leader (see Excalibur for those)

Other than that, this issue, despite the alien falling from the sky, is for me a breath of fresh air after the "doesn't really count" over-the-top violent alternate reality issues with Kulan Gath that occured prior to it. It's a weird battle against a Technarch that isn't quite as peaceful as Warlock, and you get to see the whole team (minus Storm, regrettably) back together for the first time in awhile.

[creaky]

While Wolverine is pretty forgiving of Kurt as a leader, his tickling and flirtations with Rogue are pretty insensitive ways of checking for her 7th sense, and cheering her up. Not his finest moments as a leader (see Excalibur for those)

Point, and it will get worse before it gets better. I think this is where he starts to spiral downward, although I'm not 100% positive.

[david r]

I agree that Nightcrawler tickling Rogue went too far. But Kurt just became team leader, so he'll make mistakes. I'm more worried about Kurt second-guessing himself to death. He does it in this story, and I could see him do it too often.

And why are these leadership change decisions never shown to us readers? And this "7th sense" idea seems a touch similiar to Spider-Man's "Spider-Sense", eh?

@Creaky, you say Nighty spirals downward? I hope not, he just became leader. Not a good time to fall apart.

[david r]

Selene spent 2,000 years in exile for unknown reasons; during this time, she help create Nova Roma & help found the city. The Cult of Fire may be as old as Selene herself, but she more than likely started the cult in Nova Roma when she founded the city. Due to her age, she has learned several mystical powers of black & white sorcery. Other mages, fear & respect Selene's power.

Yes, Selene is a mutant. She has the mutant ability to psionically drain the life-force of her victims; as a result she has several superhuman powers:


Selene can project the stolen life-force into inanimate objects to make them come alive or turn into dust; she can also control fire in a similar manner.
Selene has a certain amount of pseudo-telepathy; she uses this telepathy to hunt her victims. She can also blend in with the psychic static to lose other telepaths or she can track other telepaths who attempt to read her mind. Selene's pseudo-telepathy protected her from Mirage's power.
Selene can run as a fast as Quicksilver for short periods of time.
Selene can also instantly hypnotize her victims. She often combines the superhuman speed & hypnotism to make it appear she can teleport.
Selene can lift (press) 1500 pounds.
Selene is immune to knives, guns, etc al; therefore, she is very difficult to kill. Sunspot threw her into molten lava, yet even this did not kill Selene! She just used her powers to control the lava to escape from her exile.


Cerebro detected Selene & Rachel in Uncanny X-Men #184; it is how the X-Men got to scene so quickly.

Selene's sorcery skills is unknown, but she can summon demons & counter spells. You will see in Uncanny X-Men #190-191.

Thanks again for this detailed summary of Selene's powers. Talk about powered-up----I think anybody would be hard-pressed to defeat Selene.

[Cub]

This issue, for me, is when everything really starts to change. It's hard to go into detail without giving away upcoming issues, but i think this is when the anti-mutie sentiment really gets stepped up a notch.

Is this Piotr's first appearance in his new costume? I hate it!

Coming back from her mini series, Kitty is not a little girl any more. It's a little sad, to see that chapter of her life closing. Her time on the X-Men only gets harder from here...

I don't like Kurt as leader. Instead of qualifying his importance to the team, it just serves to make him feel even more inadequate. Still, he is the logical choice, especially considering Ororo and Scott wont keep popping up anymore. Wait...

I love the next 2 years of stories. I. Can't. Wait.

[Falconen]

I remember reading these stories as the came out each month, and all I kept thinking, after I saw her in the airport with Xavier, wasn't Storm leaving? She has been trying to get out of town now for 4 issues, and keeps getting stalled by events. Poor thing needs to get away from the X-Men and find herself. She looks great with her new look there at the airport wearing that white outfit.

Anyone else find it strange that Xavier is just randomly reading peoples thoughts and recording them? Rachel even mentioned that the Prof X said she shouldn't eavesdrop, while he is doing the same thing.

[CJ Lentze]

This issue, for me, is when everything really starts to change. It's hard to go into detail without giving away upcoming issues, but i think this is when the anti-mutie sentiment really gets stepped up a notch.The last two pages where Xavier gets beaten by the drunken gang of youngsters. It's had a build-up from 'God Loves, Man Kills' and into the Project Wideawake storyline/subplot, but that was either the government or hate organisations, and here it's regular civilians who commit the deed. Rachel thinks to herself that 'decent, ordinary people' herded mutants into concentration camps, hunted them down, killed them. I disagree with the 'decent, ordinary' part in her way of thinking (it lacks nuance), but Xavier getting beaten up puts a grim emphasis to her words.Is this Piotr's first appearance in his new costume? I hate it!He was wearing another red costume (which bared the center part of his chest) following the Secret Wars, until issue 189. This new updated costume looks a lot like what he wore in the Kulan Gath dimension.

About Kurt second-guessing himself as a leader, at this point it's no different from Ororo when she first became leader. It took several missions and about a dozen issues before Ororo got a bit comfortable in the X-Men's 'drivers' seat'.

I also happen to love Nightcrawler's style of training in this issue, even if it might seem a bit improvised and unprofessional... He is trying to combine being a friend and being a leader, and when he hurt Rogue's feelings, it was unintentional. Kurt's always been the romantic swashbuckler. He felt horrible after he realised how he had made Rogue feel.

I remember reading these stories as the came out each month, and all I kept thinking, after I saw her in the airport with Xavier, wasn't Storm leaving? She has been trying to get out of town now for 4 issues, and keeps getting stalled by events. Poor thing needs to get away from the X-Men and find herself.Hahaha!Anyone else find it strange that Xavier is just randomly reading peoples thoughts and recording them? Rachel even mentioned that the Prof X said she shouldn't eavesdrop, while he is doing the same thing.You make a good point. It goes against Xavier's rule of 'privacy of thought'. Maybe he can be forgiven if he's only skimming 'surface thoughts', and doesn't dig to deep into them. I don't think he's noting the names and personal stats of the people whose thoughts he records.

I like his comments about how he's happy to teach at college; even before the X-Men he lived secluded for a while, didn't he? He doesn't seem to be a very 'cool' or sociable teacher, he seems as stern as with the X-Men, but he's probably a great teacher.

[Cub]

About Kurt second-guessing himself as a leader, at this point it's no different from Ororo when she first became leader. It took several missions and about a dozen issues before Ororo got a bit comfortable in the X-Men's 'drivers' seat'.

Yes, but Ororo was actually given a chance to find her own footing as a leader, as opposed to Kurt

I also happen to love Nightcrawler's style of training in this issue, even if it might seem a bit improvised and unprofessional... He is trying to combine being a friend and being a leader, and when he hurt Rogue's feelings, it was unintentional. Kurt's always been the romantic swashbuckler. He felt horrible after he realised how he had made Rogue feel.

I like this scene just because it really proves in no uncertain terms that Rogue is completely accepted as a friend, not just as a teammate. Go girl!

[david r]

Cub, I'm sorry you don't like Nightcrawler as team leader. I'm curious to see where it leads him. I'm sure Kurt is nervous but that would be understandable. He has some big shoes to fill, after Charles, Scott and Ororo.

I must admit, I think highly of Wolverine to admit the leader role isn't for him. Most people would like the power, but Logan knows his limits & admits them.

Falconen, You are right about Storm. We had this big farewell scene with her in Uncanny X-Men #189, and now it's all for naught. (I can't believe she's supposedly QUIT the X-Men !)

S. Mormel, I also liked Nighty's style of training here. Kurt likes to get out of the Danger Room, and train outdoors. As we've seen him do with Wolverine on occasion. I think this shows he will be a leader who thinks out-of-the-box, unlike Cyclops.

As for his teaching, I think, Schuimend, that Charles Xavier probably enjoys teaching. Charles seems to be "opening up" a bit, I feel, likely from regaining his legs. It gives him the freedom he lacked before, and Xavier seems to be softening up some.

[david r]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97904389460.8.GIF

Uncanny X-Men Annual #8

"The Adventures of Lockheed the Space Dragon and his Pet Girl Kitty"

Another annual, another enjoyable story! This time, a space story told by Illyana Rasputin as the mutants of this period sit around a campfire, one dark night outside the Mansion. Bring your marshmallows!

The annual begins with Wolverine telling a samurai tale around a roaring campfire, at night, with both X-Men and New Mutants sitting on the bare ground, amongst trees on the grounds of the School. Charles Xavier, Amanda Sefton, Stevie Hunter and Lockheed are also in attendance. Storm returns from gathering more wood for the fire, and Charles notices how withdrawn she's become since losing her powers. Peter Rasputin is also morose and lost in thought---depressed over his love, Zsaji's death, and Kitty Pryde's hurt he's caused. Xavier announces it's getting late and time to bring the evening's festivites to a close. But everyone boos him, and Illyana Rasputin says she's up for telling a story of her own.

Illyana then launches into a space opera, wherein Lockheed the dragon is a space pirate, and captain of his own starship--called the Chicago. (Inspired name!) In a beginning remiscient of Star Wars, their ship is attacked by other vessels and boarded. A younger, and shorter, Kitty Pryde is aboard ship, and witnesses the White Queen, and henchman board her ship. One man resembles Sebastian Shaw. The White Queen is the evil villain of this story. The White Queen desires Kitty and her powers, and turns her right arm to ice (or crystal?) Kitty phases away to escape. We meet other members aboard this craft--Wolverine & Nightcrawler. Kurt looks like he's dressed for1980s aerobics with Olivia Newton-John! They fight fiercely against the White Queen's armies. The White Queen freezes Kitty Pryde's parents---and before her eyes----murders them!! Kitty seeks vengeance, and joins Lockheed's merry band of pirates. Their ragtag group strongly resembles the Starjammers. The computer of their vessel is named Illyana--and resembles our own blonde haired New Mutant. Illyana is the persona of their ship.

Over the weeks that follow, Kitty fights with Wolverine, Nightcrawler and Lockheed and becomes a full-fledged space pirate! Lockheed never leaves her side. They eventually land at an Imperial starport, where Charles Xavier and Empress Lilandra reside. This place is the size of Brazil ! As they leave their spaceship, Kitty sees the Imperial Guard assembled, and one member named Pete Rasputin, who is Charlie's Premiere Knight of his Round Table. Kitty finds him VERY ATTRACTIVE! A joyous occasoin follow their arrival, along with a dance. However, Lockheed is ambushed by other dragons in an alleyway, and is teleported away with them! Wolverine tries to rescue him, but is encased in ice! The White Queen and her cohorts nab him, and fly away. Kitty needs a pilot to man her ship now, so she enters a most wretched dive of scum and villainy. She locates Storm, sulking in a corner of the alien-populated bar. Ororo is the best pilot around. However, Storm has lost her powers, and is in no mood to travel. Rogue appears and begins scuffling with Kitty---leave Ororo alone! Storm then rises and says she will indeed help Kitty fly to rescue Wolverine.

They take off, into the darkest reaches of space, and approach a black hole! Ororo attempts to pilot the ship into it, but looses her nerve. The slightest mistake will destroy them all! But Kitty talks her into it, and Ororo turns the ship around....and down the rabbit hole they go, diving into an actual black hole. On the other side, space is "white" and the stars are "Black". They approach an Earth-like planet, which is made up of huge crystal mountains. They enter orbit and land. Colossus, Nightcrawler, Kitty and Rogue are the boarding party and locate Lockheed. He seems devilishly happy, as we find him amongst a plethora of female dragons. We learn Lockheed is the only male of his dragon-race left, and the female ones have been......uh, "using" Lockheed's male skills to replenish their race. All the heroes are highly amused! Soon, the White Queen's ship is also in orbit, and firing upon them. Kitty Pryde and Lockheed actually fly into space, and phase into her starship. Sebastian Shaw finds them in the corridors, and shoots Lockheed down. Wolverine now appears and ends Shaw's life with a lunging strike of adamantium claws. The White Queen feels his life end. The furious White Queen locates the invading heroes and shoots Lockheed. Kitty & the White Queen embark on a psi-battle; Kitty showing psionic skills never seen before. Kitty wins, and female dragons from the planet attack and tear up the White Queen.

Kitty is worried Lockheed is dead. But her tears bring him back to life. The merry band of space pirates have won the day. Lockheed supposedly stays behind on this planet, to be with his female dragon-girlfriends. Kitty is saddened to see him go. But she is rejoiced when he appears aboard their departing ship; Lockheed unable to leave his other self, his truest love---Kitty Pryde. Thus, ends Illyana's own fairy tale. The New Mutants have by now, all fallen asleep around the dying campfire. As the group return to the mansion, tiredly, Kitty and Peter Rasputin meet alone, and they make up for the hurt feelings between them. Kitty realizes Peter loved Zsaji very much. Peter isn't to blame. Kitty would like to stay friends, as does Colossus. As Illyana puts out the campfire, Kitty says "Thanks, I owe you." Illyana says "Hey, what are true friends for?" And Kitty replies "Not just a true friend--my BEST friend!"

My thoughts: A wondrous little story, mostly a fictitious space saga, but still a fun, solid story. Star Wars an obvious inspiration. I greatly enjoyed seeing Lockheed take center-stage, and his relationship with Kitty explored some more. I have to wonder, were these female dragons we encounter meant to be real, or is this all a fantasy and the revelations about Lockheed, that planet, and his dying race just for this one Annual, and nothing more? Seeing a "space pirate" themed tale was cute, but highly similiar to the Starjammers. I also liked the campire scenes, and always enjoy seeing our mutants taking a break, and relaxing. The talk with Kitty and Peter was overdue, and well-written. My only qualm with this annual was the artwork really wasn't my cup of tea. And some of the costumes (Logan, Kurt) were a bit cheesy. But a cute fantasy odyssey nonetheless.

[CJ Lentze]

I like this scene just because it really proves in no uncertain terms that Rogue is completely accepted as a friend, not just as a teammate. Go girl!>nods< The X-Men have accepted her, and it's touching to see how Rogue reaches out to Peter when she sees that he's sad, even if she can't offer any real advice. It shows how keen she is on having comrades around.

I wonder what Rogue was like with the Brotherhood, her interaction with Pyro and Avalanche, for instance. She was the team's junior member, so perhaps she was like a Brotherhood 'version' of Kitty? I wonder how the Pentagon-based Brotherhood spend their time when they're not hatching up villainous schemes (aside from the time that they're in jail). Do they watch TV together, read books, etc.I must admit, I think highly of Wolverine to admit the leader role isn't for him. Most people would like the power, but Logan knows his limits & admits them.Curiously, Wolverine showed some leadership potential back in Uncanny X-Men 116 ('To Save the Savage Land'). James Hudson originally wanted Wolverine to be the leader of Alpha Flight. While I don't think Wolverine would necessarily be a better leader than Nightcrawler, maybe he's chickening out just a little.

As for his teaching, I think, Schuimend, that Charles Xavier probably enjoys teaching. Charles seems to be "opening up" a bit, I feel, likely from regaining his legs. It gives him the freedom he lacked before, and Xavier seems to be softening up some.I can only imagine what it would feel like for him to regain the use of his legs after being wheelchair-bound. In a way it made him as much an outcast of society as his mutant powers would have (though it's rare that Xavier's ever been discriminated for his handicap on-panel). It reminds me of what Moira said to Stevie Hunter "You should have seen him before his legs were crushed..." Of course, what happened to him at the end of issue 192 will have its repercussions... My thoughts: A wondrous little story, mostly a fictitious space saga, but still a fun, solid story. Star Wars an obvious inspiration. I greatly enjoyed seeing Lockheed take center-stage, and his relationship with Kitty explored some more. I have to wonder, were these female dragons we encounter meant to be real, or is this all a fantasy and the revelations about Lockheed, that planet, and his dying race just for this one Annual, and nothing more? Seeing a "space pirate" themed tale was cute, but highly similiar to the Starjammers. I also liked the campire scenes, and always enjoy seeing our mutants taking a break, and relaxing. The talk with Kitty and Peter was overdue, and well-written. My only qualm with this annual was the artwork really wasn't my cup of tea. And some of the costumes (Logan, Kurt) were a bit cheesy. But a cute fantasy odyssey nonetheless.I have never read this Annual, but it sounds a lot like 'Kitty's Fairy Tale'. I didn't know the first talk between Kitty and Peter since their break-up took place here.

[david r]

Rogue has been accepted. The X-Men see she's in real pain over her powers. Most know what that's like. I give them credit for embracing her so fully.

I found it highly funny, in Uncanny X-Men #192, when Nightcrawler is tickling Rogue and she's flying around. And then as she splashes into the lake water, Rogue yells CREEP!

How does the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants spend their time? I see the Blob as a gamblin' man. So lots of horse-races and casino time. The others I'm not so sure of. This was the mid-1980s, so I bet a lot of Atari time was put in, as well as watching MTV. Anybody remember MTV? :tongue: I doubt Mystique gives them much free time.

Wolverine: I think he's good at winning battles, like he did in UXM #116, in the Savage Land. Good call on that one. But Wolverine likely isn't interested much in training sessions, dealing with people's egos or talking strategy with Charles Xavier. I think Logan is a good tactical fighter, the best at it, but not so much the big strategy stuff.

As for Annual #8, it is indeed similiar to "Kitty's Fairy Tale". In fact, Illyana mentions it here, that bedtime story Kitty told her in UXM #153. And Illyana tells her space Annual as her own Fairy Tale, a Thank You to Kitty.

[worstblogever]

>nods< The X-Men have accepted her, and it's touching to see how Rogue reaches out to Peter when she sees that he's sad, even if she can't offer any real advice. It shows how keen she is on having comrades around.

I wonder what Rogue was like with the Brotherhood, her interaction with Pyro and Avalanche, for instance. She was the team's junior member, so perhaps she was like a Brotherhood 'version' of Kitty? I wonder how the Pentagon-based Brotherhood spend their time when they're not hatching up villainous schemes (aside from the time that they're in jail). Do they watch TV together, read books, etc.

I imagine the rest of the team was probably warned away from socializing with her too much by Mystique. She's one crazy mother hen when it comes to Rogue. I'd wager she threatened Avalanche and Pyro with being castrated in their sleep if they did anything out of sorts with her. The one member who did interact with her, if any outside of Mystique and Destiny was Blindspot, and Raven wasn't too keen on how she influenced Rogue on their first mission (retconned in during Rogue's third mini-series).

[david r]

X-Men Annual #8:

--Wolverine certainly has lightened up. He now tells campfire stories. I didn't really "get" his samurai story and what it meant. Twas something to do with Kitty Pryde?

--The teller of the main tale-- Illyana Rasputin--says "in keeping with a recent caper of my own"....So this outer space fantasy has something to do with her appearing in New Mutants #21 wearing an astronaut uniform. Will we ever learn the truth behind this?

--The scene with Kitty Pryde in the seedy alien dive was taken wholly from Star Wars They're lucky they didn't get sued! :biggrin:

--This whole story was a girl's love for her dragon. It was a rather cute annual. Lockheed is always fun.

[CJ Lentze]

How does the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants spend their time? I see the Blob as a gamblin' man. So lots of horse-races and casino time. The others I'm not so sure of. This was the mid-1980s, so I bet a lot of Atari time was put in, as well as watching MTV. Anybody remember MTV? :tongue: I doubt Mystique gives them much free time. MTV! Pyro and Avalanche not so much, I'm thinking, but Rogue might have enjoyed watching that. Maybe that's where she got the idea of running away from home and getting on the bus; Pat Benatar's 'Love Is A Battlefield' is to blame, not Mastermind!

[Darkchylde]

X-Men Annual #8:

--Wolverine certainly has lightened up. He now tells campfire stories. I didn't really "get" his samurai story and what it meant. Twas something to do with Kitty Pryde?

--The teller of the main tale-- Illyana Rasputin--says "in keeping with a recent caper of my own"....So this outer space fantasy has something to do with her appearing in New Mutants #21 wearing an astronaut uniform. Will we ever learn the truth behind this?

--The scene with Kitty Pryde in the seedy alien dive was taken wholly from Star Wars They're lucky they didn't get sued! :biggrin:

--This whole story was a girl's love for her dragon. It was a rather cute annual. Lockheed is always fun.

Illyana's space-faring adventure, hinted at in The New Mutants # 21, will (eventually) be recounted in the 50's or 60's issues of that title. By then, of course, it is a flashback tale.

[david r]

Schuimend Mormel, MTV was all the rage then! I'm sure Rogue watched it, just look at her clothes from this period. Pat Benatar may be to blame, but I think Prince's "When Doves Cry" is more appropriate to describe Rogue's messed up family life. :tongue:

Darkchylde, I wonder why it takes so long to recount Illyana's space story? It's like she appears in 1 panel, and there's never a real explanation. (I was wondering if maybe the whole Lockheed part of X-Men Annual #8 is what Illyana experienced.)

[david r]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.193.GIF

Uncanny X-Men #193

"Warhunt 2"

CELEBRATING THE 100TH ANNIVERSARY ISSUE OF THE "ALL-NEW, ALL-DIFFERENT X-MEN!" :smile: This issue came out 10 years after GIANT-SIZE X-MEN #1, and it (mostly) reunites that groundbreaking team on another adventure! A skeleton from their closet comes to the fore, bent on revenge!

It begin on Muir Island, as Sean Cassidy, the Banshee, is jogging and suddenly kicked in the face by a man wearing John Proudstar's costume. He is the spitting image of Thunderbird! But how can this be? Thunderbird was killed in UXM #95! The man seeks revenge on Sean's teammates, and punches him in the face. Meanwhile, we now hop over to the Morlock's Alley, where Charles Xavier awakens from being mugged in #192. He is in Callisto's flat, and dressed in leather, and spikes. (Very risque!) Callisto informs him Charles was dead on arrival, and the Morlock Healer saved him. But it took so much out of Healer, that Xavier is not physically safe. Charles' body is still in deep, deep pain and shock. Callisto takes Charles on a tour of the Alley, and Charles is shocked by the enormity of the place. Callisto mentions the tunnels wind all over New York, including a terminus right by Charles' property. She prepares to take him back home.

Later, in the Rocky Moutains, we discover James Proudstar is the imposter of Thunderbird's. He is John's younger brother, and desires to exact revenge on the X-Men and especially, Professor Xavier---for the death of his older brother. He has found some wreckage in the snows of a forest---possibly from the plane which exploded in Uncanny X-Men #95? 3 other Hellions have joined James on his quest-- Empath, Roulette and Firestar. Firestar is very naive, and is working with them only because she's been lied to. Firestar embraces Empath and they kiss (yuck.) Back at the Mansion, Charles Xavier returns home, and his students laugh at his preposterous punk attire.

In mid-Atlantic, we now join Storm, who makes a brief appearance in #193. Ororo is watching the night from an ocean-liner which is sailing to Africa, taking the beautiful young woman to her African homeland. Ororo remembers her recent battle against Kulan Gath, in which she became a warrior and a sorceress. She wonders if that was because she had lost her mutant powers---or is there some deeper meaning? She suddenly sees a "mountain" appear atop the waves, like a vision. Then a ghost-image of her mother appears. Ororo goes to embrace the vision, but it vanishes likes a ghost. Back at the Mansion, Xavier takes a hot, wonderful bath. He is completely exhausted, and realizes his body is still in a dire condition. He cannot even use his mental powers to "hear" his students thoughts. Charles knows any use of his psionic mutant abilities could kill him in his fragile state.

Soon, however, the whole team get a transmission from James Proudstar. Proudstar has captured Banshee, and is holding him hostage, In 24 hours, he'll kill him unless the X-Men come to the rescue. He is hidden somewhere inside Cheyenne Mountain. The team are shocked, and head off to save Banshee. (We learn Rachel Summers has officially joined the main X-team.) Nightcrawler is new leader, and this is his first main mission. Kurt Wagner struggles with making the right decisions, the ones Cyclops & Storm would make. He struggles during this whole mission. They fly to NORAD, hidden deep within Valhalla-Cheyenne Mountain--the same location seen in Uncanny X-Men #94-95 and where Thunderbird was killed.The X-Men enter the base, wanting to find Banshee and not disturb the military operations of NORAD. Unfortunately, disturb the military they indeed do. Rachel Summers collapses in fright when they want her to mentally locate other mutants--her fear of being a Hound resurfacing. (Might have been nice if she'd let them know this BEFOREHAND!)

Empath locates Xavier inside the Blackbird, and weakened Charles does his damnedest to stop Empath's emotion-controlling powers. Roulette zaps him with nerve gas. Empath then enters NORAD and ignites the heated emotions of the army men within, against the X-Men. Wolverine and Kitty Pryde locate tied-up Banshee, and untie him. Wolvie discovers James Proudstar and the 2 begin a racous fist-fight. In the end though, nerve gas within the base knocks out both Wolverine and Shadowcat. (BTW, Shadowcat has a new costume in UXM #193. Mostly blue clothes with a black mask covering her eyes.) Thunderbird realizes he cannot leave them to die from gas, and drags the 2 X-Men to safety. Firestar attacks Colossus and sends them both shooting into the air, until Rogue slams into her and saves Peter. The final confrontation goes down between Thunderbird & Charles Xavier. Thunderbird locates Xavier aboard the Blackbird, exhausted and worn-out. Easy prey, except James hesitates. He holds his brother's knife, ready to plunge it into Xavier and avenge his brother's meaningless death. Charles says killing him will ruin his brother's death. Charles says he would have died in John Proudstar's place. Xavier finally says John joined his X-Men of his own free will, knowing the risk. Thunderbird holds the dagger high, his hand shaking. James drops it, and falls to his knees, in despair that he is a coward. Charles takes hold of Thunderbird and says killing him in cold blood would have desecrated John Proudstar's memory. To face his anger and accept it takes a warrior-born.

A lot more fighting happens within Valhalla Mountain, but ultimately, the X-Men win the day. Banshee is saved. However, federal authorities have instituted a nationwide manhunt for the X-Men, for invading NORAD headquarters. Charles, the X-Men, and Thunderbird listen to the news broadcast from the School. Charles asks if Firestar would like to join his school, but Angelica Jones replies she feels a devotion to Emma Frost, Headmistress of the Massachusetts Academy, and wishes to remain there. Charles says she will have a place here, and hugs her. Charles then turns to James Proudstar, and says to learn from his mistakes. Become a better man for it. Therein lies the truest, most fitting memorial to your brother's sacrifice. Charles and Proudstar shake hands.

[Shade101]

Why did Ororo see the mountain? I can't remember whether or not they addressed that.

[worstblogever]

I love this issue on a lot of levels. Two characters have heroic moments that you wouldn't expect: Callisto, and Warpath. It adds shades of grey to them both, something that all villains should have, some pathos.

Other than that, seeing the Hellions hold their own against the X-Men in battle is a fun little fight, and there's so much characterization that makes Xavier, and James Proudstar come out looking strong. They use so much continuity here, too, remembering two former members of the Giant Size #1 team who were no longer a part of the X-Men in Banshee, and Thunderbird.

If only all anniversary issues could be this good.

[CJ Lentze]

I agree with wbe, a great anniversary issue. It's as much a high-octane adventure story as the original 'Doomsmith Scenario/Warhunt" was.

I have a thing for (some) characters who die 'too early on' in a story. Thunderbird is among those. When John Proudstar died, the X-Men were schocked and saddened, but I think it's safe to say that their grief faded some, since they were all still relative strangers at that point. And here we have James, John's brother, who had known him all his life and looked up to him, and lost him to a mission that meant nothing to him (James). It's understandable that he wanted revenge on the one who had drafted John into the X-Men. The confrontation between Professor X and the new Thunderbird was great. I think it's important that James learned that John had gone on both the mission and Nefaria's escape Harrier of his own free will; that he wasn't a pawn in a game, but died a hero. James wasn't a cold-blooded killer and he would have done a bad job pretending he was. At the same time, I think perhaps Professor X needed to remember Thunderbird. I know that he was 'with him', mentally, when he died, that he was the first X-Man he lost, and that he feels he has some part in the blame for his death, but what he didn't know is what John meant to his loved ones; how his death devastated his parents, and how his life inspired his brother (in a good way). I think Professor X needed this confrontation, and the closure that he's gotten out of witnessing the 'birth' of a new Thunderbird.

Wolverine's comment that "Johnny and me had a lot in common" was cool. It seems to be a reference to the reasons behind the editorial decision to kill off Thunderbird, namely his power set being too similar to that of other characters like Wolverine and Colossus. And if Thunderbird hadn't died, Wolverine would have been the one to go.

It's nice when Colossus says to Rachel, after she's had her breakdown, that "everyone makes mistakes". He's no longer the naive farmboy he was when he joined. He makes as good a 'big brother' as he did a 'little brother'.

Rachel is now a member of the X-Men, but she hasn't been given a codename yet, and she's wearing civilian clothes during the mission. I was surprised to see that she has that much aversion to mentally tracking other mutants down even for a good purpose. It's only one use of her telepathy (she has no problem with reading minds, even without permission, see Amara in #189), but as Wolverine says, some scars run deep. It appealed to me that she has such a dark secret to keep from the X-Men (her past as a Hound), and that this increases the strain on her conscious, when the X-Men are trying to reach out and help her. She's afraid of what will happen when they find out.



This issue had a couple of awkward big speech/thought bubbles, for example on the page where Firestar was flying with Colossus only to be taken out by Rogue. That page could have benefited from less speech/thought bubbles of characters giving exposition, or expressing their every thought; let the action speak for itself.Why did Ororo see the mountain? I can't remember whether or not they addressed that.I quickly skimmed a couple of the following issues, because I was sure it was revisited either during Storm's leave of absence or her quest with Nazé, but I didn't find anything.

DDM, could you tell us?

[DDM]

[ Darkchylde, I wonder why it takes so long to recount Illyana's space story? It's like she appears in 1 panel, and there's never a real explanation. (I was wondering if maybe the whole Lockheed part of X-Men Annual #8 is what Illyana experienced.)

Chris Claremont just was too busy at the time to tell other stories in Uncanny X-Men & The New Mutants.

[DDM]

Why did Ororo see the mountain? I can't remember whether or not they addressed that.

Ororo's sees a Mountain of Power in which alludes to where Ororo will regain her powers as Storm.

[Cub]

I bet it had a little to do with Storm's mystical powers that Claremont wanted to introduce as well