Round 1: Public Comment Thread (Non judges please post here!)

[davidbovey]

Nick, great job man. The amount of detail for such a short time frame is quite an achievement. You can really feel the environment the characters are in and I think that's the strength of your work. I feel like I'm chillin in that living room.

I think the one critique I'd leave you with is that the last panel where the helicopter explodes lacks a dynamic impact. I feel that you could have done something more interesting with the angle and made the panel larger to give it more importance on the page.

But I've very impressed with what you've turned in, I think you've set a high standard.

[J. Torres]

Please post your comments about the Round 1 entries here!

The artists' threads are reserved for the judges' comments only.

Thanks!

[Caio Oliveira]

Hey J. The 2nd and 3rd Pitarra's pages are the same. :confused:

[Jack Flash]

wow! that was some good stuff Nick! i LOVE the level of detail.

[Justice41]

Sorry Nick, not feeling it. You also strayed way away from the script in that you showed Aspen's lower body when it said specifically to only show her upper torso then you showed the Comanche which is not a Comanche but an Apache way before the script called for it. The Comanche is the Choppers used in The Hulk Movie. Also way too much little linework stuff that maybe could have been left out but that's a style thing. I'd go back and read the script and make the changes if you can.
In the script for page 2 it clearly states: Panel 1.
The POV from inside the beach house--the Hellfire missiles explode into the house, blasting a hole through the television-side wall. Chance is blown into the air. The beach house should be blown entirely to bits. This panel is the central focus of the page and should be the largest panel on the page.
Unfortunately you drew it from a world POV.

[J. Torres]

Hey J. The 2nd and 3rd Pitarra's pages are the same. :confused:

Thanks for letting me know. It was just the thumbnail that was the same, and the link still opened up to the right page. Anyway, it's fixed now...

[the goddamn batman]

Nick, great detail in the line work, impressive for the amount of time you did it in.

I have to agree with what Justice said. Though, I don't think script deviations in general are that big a deal... when it's better than what the script called for, I'm just not sure that your deviations are better.

Page 1: I really dislike the last panel. Nothing wrong with it per se, just falls into the cheescake area. There's less... uh, I dunno, chesscake ways of showing that scene. The story telling is fine, it's jsut that for me that sort of shot pulls me out of the story as I roll my eyes. But I'm not sure if that's something I can hold against you so much as just the type of book it is and what you as the hired guns were told to draw. So take it for whatever it's worth to you. :)

Page 2: Why didn't you let the second (open) panel flow to the top? Stopping it with that hard line feels weird. Especially since you let it flow to the bottom of the page. I dunno, that really bothers me. It's just this weird empty spot at the top of the page. I'm a big fan of Jock and that's something he does really well, so there's that bias going on for me.

Page 3: More of the naked people, but don't show the bits... again, not something I can hold against you, aside from your choices as to how you approached it, but man I hate that crap. If you can't actually show naked people, then stop calling for them in the script.:rolleyes:

Now, the last panel... I can't remember, but weren't you NOT supposed to show the helicopter being hit? And again, the open panels... you could have let that one bleed under the panels too. That would have been nice. The hard cuts kinda bother me. I dunno, that's jsut personal taste and not something I can really kncok you for, except that it just doesn't feel like the best page design. I dunno, maybe if you took jsut a bit more time and really thought about the layouts.

I think you do fine work, just needs a bit of fine tunning.:)

[the goddamn batman]

This is a general comment, based on looking at Nick's pages, but not about Nick's work.

What about dialog? I know there wasn't any in the script, but a comic artist needs to know how to leave room for the dialog and I wonder if Nick left the appropriate room for the non existant dialog. Or how he would have approached it if there was dialog given.

Are the panels set up in a way that not only leaves room for dialog, but for proper placement as well? So that, like, your eye will be forced in the direction to the next panel without covering up important elements of the art?

I'm not expecting you guys to ask the artists to draw AND letter multiple pages ina few days but it just feels like an important element of pro comics illustration is being glossed over here.:confused:

[the goddamn batman]

Jose, great work here.


Page 1:

I really like your approach to panel 1 of page 1. However, I think a panel around it would help, personally.

I like your general layout, everything flows well into the next panel. No confusion. Only other crit is the last panel. Maybe the missles could have gone the other direction? Pointing to the bottomm right corner of the page. It's jsut a little trick to force the readers eyes off the page and onto the next page instead of brining their eye back to panel 4. I dunno, just a though.

Page 2: I like this a lot. I love the perspective of panel 2. Also, great stuff on panel 3. Love the bits of rubble going through her.

Page 3: I dunno, the drawings are great, the action is there, but you deviated from the script. I guess it doesn't matter so much in this exercise because who knows if there is another page intended after this, but shooting her powers at us and continuing off panel doesn't mean to draw the heli getting hit. And you put the final action at the top of the page. It's a beautiful panel, but where's my incentive to turn the page and see what happens next. I dunno, maybe the writer had some intended paceing that you just threw out the window. maybe you PM'd him and asked him, I don't know, but again, it isn't what was called for and I think what was called for probably would have been more dynamic. It's a bit of a cliffhanger and it makes you want to turn the page. Especially if you draw her powers going off panel to the bottom right of the page. I know I keep saying that, but it's a classic trick. Same with dialog at the bottom right of each page.

I really like the work you've done here. The art is solid and consitent. The panel layouts and the art in them all flow well across the page. Kudos.

[the goddamn batman]

Charles, nice work man!

page 1: No real complaints here. great work on the house and the car. Layout is ok, not perfect, but it's fine. You totally nailed what I mentioned to Jose about the missiles. Love it. Also, the heli in silhouette is real nice. It's very ominous that way.

Page 2: Love the first panel. That's how I like to see my explosions! No other complaints here.

Page 3: I'm glad you followed the script here. I want to see the next page now. Good show. There's one complaint I could make, but it just goes back to the nudity without any nudity thing, and I'm just beating a dead horse on that one... and it's really not the fault of the artist. Besides, I've got other stuff to do today than repeat myself.

So far, I think your pages are my favorite.:)

[Hieu Le Bui]

So far the pages of Nick Pitarra, Charles Paul Wilson III, and Jose Holder.

I like Jose Holder the most. Very nice dynamic stuff. Sweet lines. Not much I can critique for him.

[DKBingham]

So far I think my favorite is Charles Paul Wilson III, but Jose Holder has some nice qualities as well. I look forward to seeing everyone else's work!

[ScottDMSimmons]

I think Charles paid the most attention to the "stage directions" of the script so far, and yet they look great, fresh, and unforced.

Nice and tight. Very professional looking. I think the only downfall is that he may have some panel overkill here, and could combine a couple of images more (like the first two).

I even like the touch of the sink in the wreckage.

((I'd like to note that *right now* his links are going to the smaller versions of the pages (18-20) and yet 15-17 are the larger versions.)) Can someone fix this?

Scott

[davidbovey]

Out of the 3 posted so far, I think CPWilson followed the script more so than the others. And it's drawn really well. However I just don't think that looks like Aspen from the comic. That's really the only critique I've got for you though. I think it's really strong work.

Joh James probably has the most interesting pages to look at. That last page is what I would expect to see in a Top Cow comic. I also think you did a great job rendering her water powers. The only nitpick being that it would be cool to be able to see the debris passing "through" her in page 2 to sell it a bit more. Just a small detail though and possibly something the colorist could handle.

Really cool stuff so far by all three!

[davidbovey]

((I'd like to note that *right now* his links are going to the smaller versions of the pages (18-20) and yet 15-17 are the larger versions.)) Can someone fix this?

Scott

Yeah, had to search for the larger scans. Would be cool if the images were actually posted inline on the forum.

[Justice41]

Charles links produce tiny images. Can't tell what's going on. Jose has really nice and original layouts and art but again major deviations from the script. Jose went with Hammock instead of Futon as script called for. Showing Aspen's back was a no-no. Has no one read the script about the exploding house. It's to be seen from inside the structure, not from outside, Oye.
Just checked the edited submissions by Charles. Again major deviations from the script. In the last panel, where's the explosion of the chopper? You guys.

[Brandon Hanvey]

I fixed Charles' links to link to the larger samples.

[the goddamn batman]

Just checked the edited submissions by Charles. Again major deviations from the script. In the last panel, where's the explosion of the chopper? You guys.

I thought they weren't supposed to show the heli getting hit?:confused:

[Brandon Hanvey]

I thought they weren't supposed to show the heli getting hit?:confused:

Aspen shoots a blast from her water powers off panel at us. Both of her hands are supercharged with Blue energy from the blast as she unleashes a death blow to the Comanche helicopter. This is our closing salvo so make it spectacular!

While the panel is a little vague on the subject. I read it as not showing the helicopter in the panel and just showing Apsen shooting a blast off panel and towards the reader that would destroy the helicopter.

[the goddamn batman]

Yeah ok, that's what I got from it.

[polystyleneman]

I notice the finalists so far have taken a LOT of liberties with varying from the instructions in the script. Is it encouraged to do so? Because I could have made a much better storytelling piece of art (as I'm sure we all could) if I wasn't limited to the writer's number of panels and angles. Oh, well. Mine are pretty much done and I hope to scan them and post them soon in the A & W section.

[DKBingham]

Nice submission by Daniel Lafrance as well. I particularly like his opening frame, and I like the concept of Jose Holder's first frame as well.Everyone has good points. It'll be interesting to hear what the judges have to say about the liberties taken.

[Justice41]

Panel 4.
Aspen shoots a blast from her water powers off panel at us. Both of her hands are supercharged with Blue energy from the blast as she unleashes a death blow to the Comanche helicopter. This is our closing salvo so make it spectacular!This told me we see the Comanche but it is kinda confusing so I suppose it could go either way but where the house explodes it specifically says the POV is from inside the house.
The last guy Daniel LaFrance has so far kept as close to how I read the script.

[gmsalpha]

I notice the finalists so far have taken a LOT of liberties with varying from the instructions in the script. Is it encouraged to do so? Because I could have made a much better storytelling piece of art (as I'm sure we all could) if I wasn't limited to the writer's number of panels and angles. Oh, well. Mine are pretty much done and I hope to scan them and post them soon in the A & W section.

Remember, there are no rules. Lmao.

Yeah, I'm seeing people adding panels, showing full-on the helicopter when you're supposed to only hint at it, and otherwise deviate from the script. Oh well. The judges will straighten it out.

I wanted to submit my own version, but unfortunately this script was too much for me to draw, what with me working a full 8 hour shift on Saturdays.

In the future, I may just do the best single page I can out of the 2-3 pages that are given.

[MartinRedmond]

Joh James the best by far.:)
If you disagree with me you clearly need to be medicated.:rolleyes:

I'd be anxious to see his pages use a strict grid as well.:cool:

I'd add more smilies but this place is a little too stuck up on it's smilie usage.:(

[cg_maniac]

I agree that there are deviations from the script, but maybe like it has been said, the PMd the writer and got some more leeway with layout?

I like Jose's work, fine draftsman, but that first shot of Aspen is from the back, and in the script it kind of point's out that this is an important intro shot for her, so wouldn't you want to see her from the front? Your artwork and storytelling is strong. If the very last panel had her blasting straight out of the panel (kind of toward the viewer and to lead your eye to the next page,) it would have been just about perfect.

Not sure about Daniel putting the towel on Aspen in the last page, think it wouldn't stay with her when she turns to water in the previous panel, and I think the writer wants more creative ways of hiding the nudity, you know, to tease the audience. You did a good job on the first page with that.

I think Charles could have just had the one first panel, and left out the second establishing panel (car close-up). Or combined them for something in-between. And I think you have to cover up the nudey-bits a little more on the next two pages, lots of water energy bubbles would do the trick. The story-telling is right on though.

And Nick, wow, amazing amount of detail in those pages. How do you find the time? Your storytelling is good. That intro shot of Aspen though, might be a bit much. Throw some shower "steam" effect over those!

(on a side note: why does Aspen have to take a shower? Doesn't she just turn into water anyway?)

Also, I'm not sure if anyone has captured the correct look of Aspen, at least the one I am familiar with, it has been a while since I've seen the book.

other things for all: the explosion is supposed to be shown from inside the cabin, right? It has also been pointed out that the helicopter should not be in the last shot, but some put it in anyway.

Eh, I'm rambling, sorry. Still, it is all great work. This is a great competition, lots of fun to view, good luck to all. Can't wait to see the rest.

[the goddamn batman]

EDIT: nevermind, links fixed... though, Warren, page 3 has one to many 'www.' in it. ;)

I really like your pages, Warren. I'll say more later, but I've got my own work to draw right now.


Also, c'mon guys, sticking to the script = good.

Eyes to the bottom right = good. This isn't manga.;)

[warren_0]

EDIT: nevermind, links fixed... though, Warren, page 3 has one to many 'www.' in it. ;)

Woops! Thanks for the heads up! I got it fixed. Oh and thanks for saying you liked it so far.

I can't wait to see everyone else's!!:eek:

[davidbovey]

Warren's 2nd page looks kinda rushed and the backgrounds are too non-descript compared to everyone elses in my opinion. I think the main panel on page two is especially problematic. I hate to be negative but I think you'd be better off taking more time and posting your entry tomorrow to kinda button up some things. I really felt like I was looking at unfinished work.

Reed's got some interesting stuff going on pacing wise and I like the overall energy. The last panel is very cool. I don't know why, but the style really reminds me of some Keith Giffen stuff I saw years ago.

[the goddamn batman]

Warren's 2nd page looks kinda rushed and the backgrounds are too non-descript compared to everyone elses in my opinion. I think the main panel on page two is especially problematic. I hate to be negative but I think you'd be better off taking more time and posting your entry tomorrow to kinda button up some things. I really felt like I was looking at unfinished work.


I dunno, his story telling is clear so I think it's fine. Also, it's just pencils. It is unfinished work. Then again, I don't think over rendered backgrounds equals better work.

[the goddamn batman]

Well, work is boring. [rolleyes]

Daniel,

The first big problem I see is that the quality of the first panel doesn't seem to continue throughout. And the panel layout of the first page feels wonky. The target panel jsut kinda floats there confusing the whole page.

The missile panels on page two feel strange to me too. I can't nail down if it's the direction they're headed but something isn't sitting right with me there.

Page 3 is fine, but I dunno, that last panel falls into the 'should they be showing the heli or not' category. Also, you know, bottom right isn't the focus... so I feel like I casually drift to the bottom of the page instead of being taken there by the art. And, showing the heli kills the cliffhange that I think was intended in the script.

But I like the art. :)

[the goddamn batman]

John,

I like your style, and putting everything in a panel is a nice change after so many open panels from the other guys. Stands out in my mind.

But again, as many have done, the last panel leeds away from the bottom right and not to it. Same panel would have worked better flipped.

Page 2: He looks like he's jumping into a portal more than he's being blown back from an explosion.

Page 3: I think this page is fine... I'm a little tired too , so not as aware of little things like I should be. But you know, once more, that bottom right corner is just getting ignored and that's a big one for me. ...not that I'm anybody important and I might be totally full of shit, but that's the one thing I've noticed from most people.

Overall though, I like your styles.:)

[the goddamn batman]

Warren, like I already said I think you've done some great work here.

You've directed my eyes where they should be going and you've done a great job of it. the first panel on page two is the only time where it's a bit off. Flipping the panel and putting the characters on the left side would bring the eyes down to the bottom panles and then across to the bottom right corner.

That's about it. Your style reminds me of Bruce Timm and Darwin Cooke a bit. Beautiful work with the sun and the steam on the first page.

Oh and, I don't really think it looks unfinished, personally.

EDIT: as someone mentioned, it is not clear that it's a helicopter in the last panel of page 1.

[the_poet]

Here are my comments - forgive me if they seem overly critical!

Warren, Page 1: The establishing shot is tiny and cramped - though there are several details in the shot, it needs to be bigger to give the reader a real sense of where they are. Plus, the car is rendered too sketchy for a piece of technology.
In panel 4, it's not at all clear that's a helicopter. It looks like a blob of something firing two somethings at the house.
Page 3: I don't like the first in space in panel 3. This needs to be blocked better - in fact, the whole page could stand to be laid out differently.

Jon Reed, Page 1: In panel 4, Fathom's head looks way off anatomy-wise. I like the texture on the robe, though.
In panel 5, I like the rendering of the helicopter, but since these aren't heat-seeking missles, they should be firing more or less in a straight line. Having them arc like this robs them of their kinetic energy on page.
Page 2: What's with Fathom's look in panel 1? Way off model compared to the rest of the page, which actually looks good.
Page 3, panel 1: She's looking up, but the helicopter is behind her. Wouldn't she be looking at it before turning her head in panel 2?

Daniel, Page 1: I like the rendering in panel 1. The crosshairs panel seems out of place and it's not at all clear what's happening here. Also, having the friend give her the robe is a pretty serious deviation from script - it's a cute moment, but one that the writer likely won't appreciate.
Page 2: We don't get a clear enough view of the helicopter, so we don't know what's firing. The crosshairs on the previous page is inadequate - we need to see the WHOLE thing. I do like the explosion and how she melts up between the cracks.
Page 3: Would she really have had time to wrap a towel around herself, given the situation? I'd just use shadow here instead. Also, in the last panel your foreshortening is off, as Fathom looks as tall as the first floor roof was.

Charles, Page 1: In panel 5, I wouldn't have rendered the helicopter in all black, as it's not really clear what we're looking at. Give us detail. Same as in panel 8.
Page 2: I like this page out of all the page 2s so far.
Page 3: OK, I'd redo the last panel, as it's not clear she's firing AT the helicopter. She looks like she's just reacting in rage and throwing energy everywhere. Also, it kinda violates the "no nudity" policy. Put her suit on her or throw up some shadow.

Jose: You cut out the establishing shot in favor of a view of the guy in the helicopter. Establishing shots are very important to give us an outside setting for the story. In panel 3, the distance is so far away that we have little idea of the beach setting. Also, the helicopter could use more detail here.
Panel 5: I don't like this at all - the missile is so in your face that it looks like a plane. The helicopter is so tiny that I almost missed it, and you added in a second one for some reason.
Page 2: I like the car going flying and the melty effect in panel 3.
Page 3: This one's good, though I'd ditch the sliver panel in the center. It's overly stylized, and you've already established that Fathom is glaring at the helicopter. Also, it cuts into the shot of the helicopter machine gunner.

Nick: Good design on the helicopter, but in panel 4, it took me several glances to figure out what we were looking at. The background draw distance needs work here, as the bathroom mirror looks welded to her head. Also, this is clearly nudity - there's no towel in sight. :)
Page 2: That's definitely not what a Comanche helicopter cockpit looks like - you're one Google image search from some excellent reference on the subject. Panel 2 looks post-explosion rather than showing the moment itself. Panel 3-4 need reworked - where did this grating come from?
Page 3: There's some perspective issues in panel 1 between Fathom and the guy, as though the guy is bigger, they appear to be on the same plane. In the last panel, I don't like how the front of the copter is intact while the rear is engulfed.

Wilfredo: Page 1: Panel's 3-5 are confusing, as you have Fathom's head cutting into the outside shot. Also, there appears to be a missing finger on her hand.
I do like the other pages, though. If page 1 were reworked, this would be among the better entries.

I'm not 100% on any of these, but I suppose my favorite is probably Charles, with Daniel a close second.

[Nick Pitarra]

Sorry Nick, not feeling it. You also strayed way away from the script in that you showed Aspen's lower body when it said specifically to only show her upper torso then you showed the Comanche which is not a Comanche but an Apache way before the script called for it. The Comanche is the Choppers used in The Hulk Movie. Also way too much little linework stuff that maybe could have been left out but that's a style thing. I'd go back and read the script and make the changes if you can.
In the script for page 2 it clearly states:
Unfortunately you drew it from a world POV.

Hey Justice...thanks for taking the time to crit my stuff. We see things differently...and thats totally cool. :cool:

I'll try and explain myself best as possible.

My mind set is that for this contest I want to draw to my strengths...and tell a clear concise story. I told the same story that everybody did...just picked a different shot selection(as most all the artists did,but thats another point).Simply, I picked shots that better suited my style. With this in mind...I took the script as a semi hard outline. You read only her head popping out...I read...this is our opening shot of our main girl make it count. I wanted to make my opening shot count...thats hard to do with just a head shot.You read tiny downshot with a helicopter blade cutting through the scene...I read....down shot ...helicopter....great chance to show off my detail oriented work to the public. Again the same story... nothing changes....just angles and scope. It's equivalent of one stand up comedian reading anothers material,but not making it his own. It will bomb. You got to make it your own....more so than anything else. The most succesful artist in this contest will do that the best...make this story his ...and bring it to life on his strengths. And I guarantee you the guys who treat this script like the scripture will ultimately fail...thats the writers minds eye typing...not the artist. As long the story is intact and the art is interesting...then thats the point. Its comics.

~nick

[joshm]

Some really great pages so far and some not so geat pages.

I just posted mine in the play at home thread, so please check it out.

I'll try to give everyone some comments when I can, but I'm still moving so it might be a in a few days.

[davidbovey]

I dunno, his story telling is clear so I think it's fine. Also, it's just pencils. It is unfinished work. Then again, I don't think over rendered backgrounds equals better work.

That's why we all get a vote. :)

Interesting theory on pencils though. To me pencils should be as clear and concise as possible when you hand it off to an inker. Page one is something that looks like finished work to me. While the first panel on page two looks like it leaves way too much up for interpretation. It looks more like breakdowns than finished pencils.

[Justice41]

I notice no one drew the necklace Aspen always wears. http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b312/fivo1/1_7_01_4.jpg

[the goddamn batman]

That's why we all get a vote. :)

No vote for you. :)

Interesting theory on pencils though. To me pencils should be as clear and concise as possible when you hand it off to an inker.

Well, that very much depends on the inker and the working relationship between the penciler and inker. But yeah, fair enough.

[the goddamn batman]

I can't remember all of them but, did anyone actually draw the peninsula?

[DanielSchenstrom]

I think there's a lot of really great pages. It kind of feels like when you're doing thumbnails for a page and working out the best angles and setups for shots and here you get to see all possible outcomes.

Everyone clearly have different strengths and some have several clear ones. Some have very dynamic shots and layout work while others are more detailed or flow better. I'll wait to comment fully when all are in.

[Maresk]

First, congratulations to all contestants for such a good work in so little time. That said, some quick and worthless thoughts:

Warren Leonhardt:
At first sight, it appears he suffered the most with the tight deadline. Solid stuff...but what turns me off is that Aspen in the first page and Aspen in the others don't really look like the same character. The first one is very Michael Turner-ish, and the latter looks like Warren's actual style. I'd have to say I think his work is the weakest so far.

Jon Reed:
I'm impressed by the amount of detail this man is capable of. Simply stunning, really. His backgrounds are probably my faves of the bunch. Not crazy about his Aspen, but he remains true to his style and kudos for that. Great storytelling, too. A definitely thumbs up.

Daniel Lafrance:
Very nice work, great flow. It's true it took liberties with the script, but I'm asumming everybody who did it contacted the writer and consulted him about it, so I won't bitch about that. I found odd the choice of the missile direction in the first panel of page 2, since it takes the reader's eye out of the page instead of into the next panel -I would think that flip the direction was a no-brainer. But overall, very, very good!

Charles Paul Wilson III:
Another very good one! Firts page is the best IMO.

Jose Holder:
Ok, I have to say this: from all the entries (so far!), Jose's is the only one that screams "I belong in the shelves!!!" to me. The others are great, but, to a different degree, still have an amateurish feel to them. These ones have "PRO" with capital letters all over them.

Nick Pitarra:
Another detail nut! Very impressive too. His work's not really my cup of tea and I doubt I'd buy a book from him, but it cannot be denied it's a great job. Well done!

Wilfredo Torres:
More good, solid work. The man know what he's doing.

To everyone, good luck!

[kalorama]

I have to admit I wasn't really blown away by any of the work.

I think Charles Paul Wilson's work has the most solid combo of clear, readable storytelling and good draftsmanship. I think his stuff worked the best for me. He seems to have a nice grasp of the storytelling basics: camera placement, perspective, in-panel composition, etc. He "cheated" a bit by never really giving us a good view of the helicopter. We didn't necessarily need to see an overly detailed rendering, but I think there should have been enough to get a more definite view of what was approaching, at least in the first shot. The shot of Aspen in page 3, panel 3 seems a bit off. The face is good, but the body seems off, like he was more concerned with positioning her hands to hide her "girl parts" than in finding a really dramatic pose. It seems forced. The establishing shots on the first page (interior and exterior) are very good. The shot of the explosion is great, spot on, and the bottom panel of page two is very effective. And the shot of Aspen lashing out is very effective, visually and emotionally.

I like some of Wilfredo Torres' does with composing the interior of his panels, but the overall storytelling has some issues. The attempt to create a 3-d effect and manipulate time by overlapping the middle panel of the bottom tier of page 1 doesn't really work, and with no context for the shot of Aspen, it looks like she's pointing at the helicopter instead of the towel, which is nowhere to be seen in the panel. We have no idea where she is in relation to anything else (although the actual image of her in the doorway s great). Also, since we never see the house in the background of either of the two helicopter shots, we have no idea where it is or what it's shooting at until the next page. But, on the other hand, the first two panels on page one do an excellent job of establishing a sense of place (but they make the problems in what come later even more apparent). Page two very nicely conveys a sense of chaos, although the shot of the explosion itself seems to be lacking some impact. More detail and a definite indication of light/energy being emitted from the blast using shadow/spotted blacks could have helped, perhaps. His figure work is technically very good, but could stand to be looser and a bit more fluid. The bottom panels on both pages two and three do a fine job of capturing the character and the emotion of the momet (shock/fear in the first, resolve/anger in the second).

I like Jose Holder's graphic illustration style quite a bit, it has a Nestor Redondo feel to it. But I think he made a number of critical storytelling errors. While certain elements of the writer's intention may have been open to interpretation from the script, it is clear that he was attempting to build up some suspense leading to the helicopter assault. Giving up almost a third of the first page to a full-on close up of the helicopter pilot, kind of blew that. Also, there's nothing in the story to indicate the pilot is a significant character, yet we get a better, fuller view of his face on the first page than we ever do of a major supporting character or the star of the book. It looks like he got so caught up in details that he may have lost sight of the big picture a bit. The drawing is very nice, but I think the work overall could have benefited from more focus on the composition and storytelling before the first lines ever went down.

[escapegoat]

So far it's been totally fun seeing all these intrepretations of the same plot. :D

It woulda been cool to see a random professional do the assignmemt as well, and then have that revealed after the deadline, just to see how the assignment woulda been handled by someone in the industry (though I guess doing that would also kinda take away/distract from the sport of the competition).

I've seen a bunch of comments so far regarding how some of the contestants strayed away from the plot outline and how horrible it was to do such a thing (gasp! :eek: ). I've been working on this assignement at the play-at-home thread (haven't posted anything up yet - only got page 1 done, and rough layouts of 2 and 3), and all I have to say to this is that plot/script itself does have it's own weaknesses. Not to slight Vince Hernandez's writing skills or anything, but the outline itself feels like it was written up in a half hour just for the purpose of the competition. I'm sure if Vince were to include it as a part of an actual storyline, he would possibly make slight tweaks/changes to it afterwards. The style of the plot obviously lends itself to the "image" style of sequential art, and there's nothing wrong with that. But some of the contestants do have differing story-telling styles. When I went through the script, and layed things out on paper, I noted a couple of spots where I would definitely add a panel in here or there for better story-telling purposes. It's kinda been a relief to me to see some of the contestants do the same thing. ;)
Since this is a loose plot, I don't think that we the voters should focus on that aspect that much (though extra points can be given to those who played it on spot with the script ;) )

All in all, so far I've seen some contestants hit some panels dead-on perfectly, and other panels not-so perfectly. I'll try and give a critque of all of them in the next day or two.

I had also pointed out the confusing final panel in the "Round One is Posted" thread, but didn't wanna personally bother Mr Hendandez on it, because it wasn't that important for me as a play-at-homer (d'oh!) to bother him about it. Plus I wanted to see how everyone would wind up interpreting that panel.

-Ty

[escapegoat]

I'd add more smilies but this place is a little too stuck up on it's smilie usage.:(


Heh, yeah.... I just discovered the smilie limit in my post. :p

[polystyleneman]

I agree with Nick about the writer's imagination doing the drawing. The artist should definitely get more control over what tells the story. Unfortunately, in a contest like this I think the judges are also looking to see who can work under limitations, and what can be done with those limitations.

The one thing I noticed overall, which is odd, that almost none of the artists so far took the time to see what a Comanche helicopter actually looks like.

Not sure why that would be important, but you never know with judges, anyway Nick, your 'copter and pages overall look really cool. The texture you give them is incredible.

[Physicdesigns]

i think as far as not following teh script exactly, i think the key is to try to understand what the writer and the stories ablsolute goal is, then interpret with that as a goal. showcasing teh way you do stuff best is good, but at same time you will just end up redrawing some things. for example the panel with the top half shot tells a very different story then what the script says. and also pushes the limits of what they want to show, the editor himself may have forbidden a full frontal. basically you should change panels to tell the story better, imo anyhow

[Hieu Le Bui]

I notice no one drew the necklace Aspen always wears.

Well OMG, everyone is disqualified. :rolleyes:

[the goddamn batman]

Well OMG, everyone is disqualified. :rolleyes:

Well, if she always wears it, it's an important part of the character design and it shows that nobody did any solid research on the character.:p

[CPWilsonIII]

Well, if she always wears it, it's an important part of the character design and it shows that nobody did any solid research on the character.

youch! :)

here are a few examples of some of the things I pulled from google. in the case of the comanche - these guys really did do some research on that helicopter, hellfire missiles included. and perhaps in one guy's case - at one point i found a couple sites that had shown the apache instead of the comanche but didn't list it as such.

hope this clears some things up!:)



http://abcovers.free.fr/components/com_ponygallery/img_pictures/fathom-turner1_20051016_-643620362.jpg

*edit - oops! guess some of the links broke.

[Caio Oliveira]

Well, if she always wears it, it's an important part of the character design and it shows that nobody did any solid research on the character.:p

WROOOOONG! I did my homework. At the end of the first mini, the villain - Killian- takes it off and throw away. :cool: (But I don't know if she gets it back):p

[the goddamn batman]

Well, to be honest, I didn't do any research on the character either... :) But it shows up in most results on google. But my google fu is strong.

I really wasn't trying to slag on anyone, just teasing the person I quoted.





Also, Dan McDaid? Win.

[Pro]

Great stuff so far, some of which i could definitely see having commercial success. I'll give a more indepth review later but great work for all. And the speed .. I think quality wise i could fit in but boy you're all quick with the pencil .. it's one of the things that made me doubt about entering,specially with my arm the way it is right now. It's one thing to draw well and another to draw fast. If you can do both it definitely pays off if you want to make it into the comic world.

[MartinRedmond]

Well Joh still did my favorite pages.

[J. Torres]

Everyone is now present and accounted for!

Stay tuned for Marc Silvestri, Chris Ryall, James Lucas Jones, and Vince Hernandez...

[gwor]

My three favorites are:

Dan McDaid: nice, expressive storytelling, and I like the indy vibe <g>

Jose Holder: cool and loose interpretation of the script, results in more interesting pages

Nick Pitarra, impressive use of detail, but it all kinda blends together a bit (visual overload)...

[Chris Ring]

Lots of fun looking at everyone's work in how they interpreted things and put their own polish on it. I think everone had moments of greatness but have to say I think Joh James really showed his drawing chops this round. He may have taken script liberties but he really shined overall. One constructive criticism I have for some of the artists is to look at your panels and ask yourself, If I had to hand this off to an inker, how much would they have to interpret? Most of what I saw was good but a few left a little too much work for an inker. Thanks for the show guys, Good luck to all!:)

... I threw up a few pages on the Play-at-Home thread just for Practice, so you guys are welcome to pay me back a critique:rolleyes:

www.chrisringart.com
www.t5design.com
http://93cobra.deviantart.com/

[Jay Figgs]

I absolutely loved Caio's pages - Great figure work, and I think his first page is just awesome. IMHO, the best of the round.

I also loved Dan McDaid's use of half-tones, and Daniel LaFrance's pages are really strong, too.

[Muddy Waters]

I absolutely loved Caio's pages - Great figure work, and I think his first page is just awesome. IMHO, the best of the round.

I also loved Dan McDaid's use of half-tones, and Daniel LaFrance's pages are really strong, too.

I agree about Caio's work. Fully inked pages, full of details and looking really great.

[Chris Daley]

A three page assingment right out of the gate and not a miss among the 10 submissions. This is a really great start to CBI3. Like everyone, I have my favorites. Mostly based on the people who I think served the story best. Top 6 (because of a tie) are:

Oliveria - just really solid pages that flowed incredibly well
Huerta - who I think did my favorite exploding house of the bunch
Wilson - absolutely love the final panel
Holder - all kind of Neal Adams inspired (maybe?) goodness. And that page 3 is my overall all favorite page of the first round (despite the fact that it may not completely track the script)
McDaid/Reed - both have really strong elements that I'm totally digging

Of course, Pitarra, Lafrance, Leonhardt, and Torres all did very solid work as well. In particular, I like Pitarra's detail, Lafrance's movement, Leonhardt's page 3, and Torres' final panel.

I'm not looking forward to losing any of these great artists.

Chris

[kalorama]

The last three contestants to submit--Caio Oliveira, Andrew Huerta, Dan McDaid all turned in some of the strongest work of the first round. Nice work by all.

I was especially impressed by Oliveira's work. Layout, composition, draftsmanship, figure drawing... it all seems to work pretty well. My only real complaint is the use of tilted camera angles. While it's a good way to add a sense of drama to what could be otherwise static images, in a couple of the instances the tilt is so extreme, what should be vertical scenes are almost horizontal. It's kind of disorienting (I can't tell if Aspen is lying down or standing in the last panel of page 2). But overall it's very nice, dynamic work. I especially like the opening panels on each page, big panoramic shots that really establish the scene for the rest of the page.

[mytymark]

i'm really loving wilfredo torres's (wonder if he's a relative of sorts)...blue lined pages...and it really resonates strongly with me...so he gets my top vote...and dan mcdaid's playing dark horse with his very classic (almost timm-verse) style.

great job all!!!

[DidCart]

I really liked Caio Oliveira's pages. He did a really good job. A lot of expression! Clean draws! Nice storytelling. Shows pretty well the water form and the girl's power. Congratulations!

[R Santos Jr]

Dan McDaid has the strongest pages. Nothing fancy. Sticks to the script. Last page, last panel is a little weak for a "killing blow"... but it's the best of the bunch.

When I read "This is our opening shot of her so make it count", I got the impression that it was to be a striking face shot with lots of detail. A coy expression with lots of wet hair and dripping with sexy.

Joh gives me a drawing of her back. :(
Jon gives me a really well drawn towel. T__T
Warren gives me a side profile where she gets her own damn towel.
And Wilfredo gives us a finger. XD
(although, you DO draw really NICE HANDS.)
Even Dan cheats us in favor of drawing a second shot of Chance in the foreground. ;__;

For those of you that survive and make it to the next round... PLEASE... stop thinking with your pants. "Make it count" does NOT mean T and A. A beautifully drawn bust shot (no pun intended) IS FINE TOO. (preferred even!)

More than 2 thirds of the script calls for Aspen running around in the buff. Is ONE panel to look her in the eyes and get to know who this character, the STAR of the comic, too much to ask? Would you guys direct a Jessica Alba movie without A SINGLE CLOSE-UP?

Geez, guys... what would your mothers think? XD

[polystyleneman]

[QUOTE=R Santos Jr;5639922]
For those of you that survive and make it to the next round... PLEASE... stop thinking with your pants. "Make it count" does NOT mean T and A. A beautifully drawn bust shot (no pun intended) IS FINE TOO. (preferred even!)

Is this a serious criticism? I mean, in defense of the artists, this is for a mag that from everything I've seen is basically like Baywatch for Comics, and the script seems to be written as to let the artist's have a little fun. I mean the fact that a character who turns into water is taking a shower (huh?) just so she can end up naked for the action seems a little forced and intentional, don't you think? You can't blame the artists for playing along and pushing Aspen's sex appeal as much as they feel comfortable with.

[Jay Figgs]

When I read "This is our opening shot of her so make it count", I got the impression that it was to be a striking face shot with lots of detail. A coy expression with lots of wet hair and dripping with sexy.

I think Caio's opening shot of Aspen met exactly those standards!;)

Maybe it could've been a bigger panel, but otherwise it's exactly what you just described.

[Phil Clark]

I am disappointed that so many of the versions of the pages vary so greatly from the script. In inside the house shot of the explosion becoming an outside shot of the house exploding. Showing the helicopter when told specifically to keep it vague. The "money" shot of Aspen using her powers being one of the weakest panels on all three pages.

And most versions of the establishing shot missed the peninsula.

Everyone really needs to step up their game if they want to win this competition. IMO.

[kalorama]

Is this a serious criticism? I mean, in defense of the artists, this is for a mag that from everything I've seen is basically like Baywatch for Comics, and the script seems to be written as to let the artist's have a little fun. I mean the fact that a character who turns into water is taking a shower (huh?) just so she can end up naked for the action seems a little forced and intentional, don't you think? You can't blame the artists for playing along and pushing Aspen's sex appeal as much as they feel comfortable with.

The problem is they pushed it farther than the writer appeared to be comfortable with and, in so doing, did a disservice to the storytelling. There was plenty of opportunity in the latter two pages to show off the character's body. As with the veiled approach of the chopper (which a couple of them also muffed) the writer's instruction to keep her first appearance rather modern seemed to be an intentional attempt to build suspense over the course of the narrative, an important storytelling tool. By laying all of their cards on the table from the word go, some of the contestants dropped the ball on a key point in the script.

[bls-79]

Based purely on personal preference, I'd give the nod to Dan McDaid's pages in this round. I really like his art style and think has good pacing and story telling skills.

[Genki_Desu]

Jose Holder:
Ok, I have to say this: from all the entries (so far!), Jose's is the only one that screams "I belong in the shelves!!!" to me. The others are great, but, to a different degree, still have an amateurish feel to them. These ones have "PRO" with capital letters all over them.

My sentiments exactly! Everyone's entries had several panels that made you say "oooh, nice", but Jose was the only one with an entire layout that looked professional.

[Mateus]

I really liked Daniel Lafrance, but my favorite here is Caio Oliveira! Great storytelling, following the script and making everything very clear! A lot of the other guys if you don't already know what's supposed to be happening you'll never understang what's going on.

[escapegoat]

I am disappointed that so many of the versions of the pages vary so greatly from the script... Showing the helicopter when told specifically to keep it vague.

As I worked on these pages for the Play-at-Hone thread, I found it strange that the writer was trying to keep a helicopter hidden and vague throughout the whole three pages. The only panel in the script that does fully reveal it (and this is questionable) is the very last panel (depending on how you interpret what Mr Hernandez wrote).

To me, he only times you would want keep an antigonist "hidden" from the viewer is:

a) when there's a personal significant reason to do so - i.e. "Surprise! Your evil twin arch-nemesis who you thought was long thought dead is actually alive and has plotted his revenge! Thus the need to keep his identity "hidden" from the viewer.
b) as in many horror/slasher type stories, to keep the viewer guessing where/when/how the antigonist is gonna strike (No guessing in this case...something in the air fires a couple of missiles right away on the first page...hmmm, what could it be?)

It seemed like weak storytelling to me to keep a simple helicopter hidden from the viewer within this script, especially when it's pretty much gonna get toasted on page 4 (or the end of page three, depending on how you interpreted it). If this were a scene from an actual movie, you wouldn't be hiding the "identity" of the helicopter at all...there would just be no point to it.

I don't fault any of the artist at all for revealing the copter ahead of time.

[kalorama]

My sentiments exactly! Everyone's entries had several panels that made you say "oooh, nice", but Jose was the only one with an entire layout that looked professional.


I have to disagree. His drawing was very nicely done, but his layouts were an issue for me. His layouts and composition didn't really result in clear storytelling, which was especially problematic given the ornate style of his rendering.

[shwa96]

My sentiments exactly! Everyone's entries had several panels that made you say "oooh, nice", but Jose was the only one with an entire layout that looked professional.

Pros generally read the script.

This may look nice, and that's a matter of opinion, but it wouldn't make it past editorial.

[escapegoat]

Pros generally read the script.

This may look nice, and that's a matter of opinion, but it wouldn't make it past editorial.

And you know for a fact that it wouldn't make it past editorial because...???

[shwa96]

And you know for a fact that it wouldn't make it past editorial because...???

Because I work in editorial.

[shwa96]

On page 1 alone, 4 of the 5 panels deviate from the script significantly and for no justifiable reason. I would hope if he were going to make changes like that, he would consult his editor first, and in this case, I don't think they'd get approved.

[escapegoat]

Because I work in editorial.

Okay, but are you in comics editorial?

I'm only asking because comics editorial and editorial for something else can come with its own set of rules. I'm a content manager for an online safety training business, but just because I'm a manager doesn't mean I could go to a fast food chain and manage it right away with the set of manager rules I have at my current business.
Also, if an artist wanted to make any significant change, I think they would discuss it first with the writer, who both in turn would discuss it with the editor (rather than going straight to the editor). Plus, the changes made are only visually superficial (changes in POV). I don't see any reason why an editor wouldn't approve it, especially when the artist is working from a loose plot (a fully written script would be another issue altogether)

BTW, I'm not trying to disrespect you as an editor in whatever you edit....I'm just wanting more information from your end because you comments, while direct, didn't clarify your reasoning at first.

[R Santos Jr]

I think Caio's opening shot of Aspen met exactly those standards!;)

Maybe it could've been a bigger panel, but otherwise it's exactly what you just described.

You are correct. I think he did the best job too...
If it weren't sideways.
Why is it sideways?? And not even a GOOD sideways (if there is such a thing...), but one that goes completely against the flow of the page!

I am disappointed that so many of the versions of the pages vary so greatly from the script. In inside the house shot of the explosion becoming an outside shot of the house exploding. Showing the helicopter when told specifically to keep it vague. The "money" shot of Aspen using her powers being one of the weakest panels on all three pages.

And most versions of the establishing shot missed the peninsula.

Everyone really needs to step up their game if they want to win this competition. IMO.
This man speaks the truth.

I found it strange that the writer was trying to keep a helicopter hidden and vague throughout the whole three pages.
I don't think it's all that strange if you keep in mind that these are only THREE pages out of who knows how many... with no dialog or narrative. The following page could very possibly have been a huge double page splash reveal of the helicopter exploding in massive detail... or perhaps an epic panoramic horizon shot of a who sky FILLED with Comanche helicopters firing missiles.

[escapegoat]

... The following page could very possibly have been a huge double page splash reveal of the helicopter exploding in massive detailor perhaps an epic panoramic horizon shot of a who sky FILLED with Comanche helicopters firing missiles.

...and that is what they would call "overkill" in both instances :p

Those are good points, but for now we're only informed in the plot that there is one helicopter. So if overkill were to be the case, then I guess we'll never know. :confused:

[polystyleneman]

But I think the artist has to assume that the writer has a plan and a reason for making the "stage directions" he has in terms of when to show what. Especially in a case like this where it's as close as it can be to simulating a Pro assignment for people who aren't necessarily Pros yet themselves. Whether we agree or not is kind of irrelevant, at least without the ability to confer with the writer. My take on it as I did was the pages was to put my faith in the writer and follow the instructions as the story would allow.

[davechisholm]

honestly, i was pretty disappointed with almost all of the entries.
i feel like joh james' work was very good and interesting.
a unique voice that has tons of energy and fearlessness in his panels.

for the most part, the artists seem like they are 'drawing scared,' or something. it seems like their fear of making a mistake is paralyzing them. as a result, the pages seem stiff and lifeless--the characters in them, to me, are suffering the most.

but it's just the first week. i'm sure everyone will improve from week to week!

[Maresk]

Bah, practically everyone changed the script, and, like I said, before getting in a high horse and bitch about it, I'll assume the changes were talked with and approved by the writer, since he even posted he was open to discuss it. Until knowing for a fact that wasn't the case, I have no reason to bash any of the contestants.

Jose's layout and storytelling are neither more complicated or hard to follow than the average superhero book crazy layout, which is what this is. In the end, for me, it all comes down to which artist's book I'd buy when comparing them in a shop, and, with the exception of Dan McDaid (which has the best work of the bunch, I think), none of the others would stand a chance.

[Maresk]

I am disappointed that so many of the versions of the pages vary so greatly from the script. In inside the house shot of the explosion becoming an outside shot of the house exploding. Showing the helicopter when told specifically to keep it vague. The "money" shot of Aspen using her powers being one of the weakest panels on all three pages.

And most versions of the establishing shot missed the peninsula.

Everyone really needs to step up their game if they want to win this competition. IMO.

I hear you. With the exception of Jose, Dan McDaid and maybe Jon Reed, all these dudes are far from their A-game. For some of them, if these were their first samples for the contest, I doubt they would have come this far, and that's dissapointing.

[Phil Clark]

I don't think it's all that strange if you keep in mind that these are only THREE pages out of who knows how many... with no dialog or narrative. The following page could very possibly have been a huge double page splash reveal of the helicopter exploding in massive detail... or perhaps an epic panoramic horizon shot of a who sky FILLED with Comanche helicopters firing missiles.

Or perhaps Aspen's blast misses the helicopter altogether. I think it is best to follow the script rather than create the appearance of thinking that you are better than the script. It was said early on, part of the competition is following directions. The script is the biggest direction element on this assignment.

[shwa96]

Okay, but are you in comics editorial?

Yes.

Also, if an artist wanted to make any significant change, I think they would discuss it first with the writer, who both in turn would discuss it with the editor (rather than going straight to the editor).

No, they would go to the editor. The editor is their contact at the publisher and is often the one who chose to put the artist on the project. Not only do you risk upsetting your editor if you circumvent him or her, you're wasting time, because the writer answers to the editor as well. The editor is the arbiter of the project, and while any changes he or she agrees with will probably go to the writer for comment, if the editor doesn't agree with the proposed change, then that's the end of it. There's no point consulting the writer.

Plus, the changes made are only visually superficial (changes in POV). I don't see any reason why an editor wouldn't approve it, especially when the artist is working from a loose plot (a fully written script would be another issue altogether).

I would disagree with that. Completely changing the establishing shot is not superficial. Especially when it gives away something that the writer wanted as a subtle reveal without establishing any of the information the writer considered important to include in the shot.

Let's break it down.

P1 - This should not give away the existence of the helicopter. It also fails to establish the house and Chance's car. It barely establishes the peninsula given that it's almost an afterthought in the reflection. Some readers may not even notice that reflection as significant information.

P2 - This should establish the towel, which is a forgotten detail in the far background. It's a significant element, and there's a reason it is noted as being in the foreground. It's her motivation for leaning out of the door, and it's what she points to in panel 3. Yes, dialogue will establish that she's asking for a towel, but an artist shouldn't rely on dialogue. He needs to tell the story visually to the best of his ability.

P3 - This is supposed to be a tight shot on a whirring chopper blade, the first we see of it. We shouldn't know at this point if it's a military chopper, a news chopper, or a personal chopper. Until we see missiles shooting at the house, we shouldn't know there is imminent danger. Instead, we get a full view of the weapon-laden aircraft. Worse still, the artist has decided to add a second chopper to the scene. If this was the first three pages of a full issue, wouldn't an extraneous chopper be problematic? She destroys one at the end of page 3 and then, unless the following pages are rewritten, you've got an unaccounted for gunship hovering around.

P4 - This is the establishing shot of the main character and the only shot where we get to see her before the house blows up, and the artist has switched the angle so that we don't even see her face. The writer specifically noted what he wanted to see in this panel because he wanted to establish the character. We need to see her expression as she interacts with Chance, and we DO NOT need to see her naked. We'll have plenty of opportunity for that on the next two pages. It's not too much to ask for one panel that focuses on her face.

P5 - Okay, this is the one panel where there isn't something that I would demand be redrawn (other than removing the second helicopter), but it's still not the most effective use of the space. The POV from the chopper firing the missiles is to establish without a doubt that they're being fired at the house. Since the house hasn't been established, that's problematic. If it isn't established, then we definitely need to know exactly where the missiles are going in this panel. If he redraws panel 1 as it should be, however, there's enough information that not having that detail in panel 5 is forgivable. Though it is still not as effective as it could be. If he's got to redraw 4 of the 5 panels, there's not much point in salvaging that one, and I would probably tell him to redraw the entire page.

So that's page 1.

[cg_maniac]

... if these were their first samples for the contest, I doubt they would have come this far, and that's dissapointing.

I feel the same way. I was kind of surprised by the drop off in quality from their portfolios - not that I think I could do any better, all I've done so far is break down the script for the play-at-home, and it was challenging too.

I watched the last comic book idol contest a few years back, and I can remember thinking that some of the work done for the contest was actually better than their portfolio work. Funny how it appeared that this year's contestants were more accomplished artistically than those guys, but the final result this year is not as exciting as the previous contest. I kind of liked the scripts from that year (the one with the bus, the dog, romantic cover, etc.), so maybe that has something to do with it.

Just goes to show you that a working from a script will tell you a lot about where you are as an artist.

I remember getting the script (never published, unfortunately) for the samples I posted (here (http://www.jimthorpe-art.com/comic.all.html)), and really sweating when I read I had to draw all that Hawaiian scenery, beach scenes, helicopters, etc. But since it was something I would never think of drawing myself, it turned out to be a great learning experience in the end.

[kalorama]

Another thing to consider:

While some pro artists can and will alter a writer's script, the only ones who have any chance of "getting away with it" (so to speak) with the editors are the big name stars whose work sells books. A new person just entering the industry (and this is true of pretty much any industry) is going to be expected to stick close to the rules and guidelines (in this case, the script) until he or she (A) learns enough of the craft and (B) earns the trust/respect of the bosses to be able to get away with breaking the rules.

I feel the same way. I was kind of surprised by the drop off in quality from their portfolios

I'm not.Most of the stuff in the portfolios was produced at their own pace according to their own interests and specs. now their working on deadline trying to properly interpret someone else's "vision."

[The French Touch]

Jose Holder and Dan McDaid are my favourites in this round.

Dan's as a Darwyn Cooke feel to it. :)

[polystyleneman]

Yes.

Let's break it down.


Very good points! This is why I said in my summation of who I liked, that Jose had too many things that bugged me. And I think what it was was that overall his renderings and drawing skill was really superb, it seemed as though he was too rushed by the deadline to stick close to the script, which was pretty specific. That being said, it is always possible that he consulted with the writer, we were given the impression that the "official" contestants would be able to do so. So maybe my critique is null and void.

[escapegoat]

No, they would go to the editor. The editor is their contact at the publisher and is often the one who chose to put the artist on the project. Not only do you risk upsetting your editor if you circumvent him or her, you're wasting time, because the writer answers to the editor as well. The editor is the arbiter of the project, and while any changes he or she agrees with will probably go to the writer for comment, if the editor doesn't agree with the proposed change, then that's the end of it. There's no point consulting the writer.

Thanks for the insight. :) I just don't like to read curt comments on messageboards that don't provide any justification to what the person is posting. You make some very vaild points above on the editor's position in regards to the rules of production. I think that those not in the know of the industry (such as myself) tend to get an impression that everyone's all buddy-buddy in the writer/artist/editor relation since comics are a creative process and that slight deviations won't rattle any horns whenever they happen.

I had also misread your message and thought you were talking about just panels 4 and 5, not 4 of the 5. Your breakdown of that was also good to read.

[escapegoat]

That being said, it is always possible that he consulted with the writer, we were given the impression that the "official" contestants would be able to do so. So maybe my critique is null and void.

That factor does kinda of create a bit of an unfortunate blindside to how we can perceive whether someone who's made a legit change to the plot with the writer/editor and someone who hasn't.

In the end, I guess the best thing for any of the contestants would have been to follow the script to the t.

[Brandon Hanvey]

That factor does kinda of create a bit of an unfortunate blindside to how we can perceive whether someone who's made a legit change to the plot with the writer/editor and someone who hasn't.


Well Vince will post his reviews soon so you may found that out.

Plus J. set up the progress of the assignments in a certain order to see how the artists handle different types of scripts.

[shwa96]

Thanks for the insight. :) I just don't like to read curt comments on messageboards that don't provide any justification to what the person is posting. You make some very vaild points above on the editor's position in regards to the rules of production. I think that those not in the know of the industry (such as myself) tend to get an impression that everyone's all buddy-buddy in the writer/artist/editor relation since comics are a creative process and that slight deviations won't rattle any horns whenever they happen.

I had also misread your message and thought you were talking about just panels 4 and 5, not 4 of the 5. Your breakdown of that was also good to read.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that there would be some kind of violent reaction to this. It's a friendly environment. It's an artist's responsibility to be creative. That's why they're artists, and that means suggesting new ideas. It's an editor's job to reign in those ideas when they get too far out into left field. We provide the perspective that is needed to avoid critical oversights. We understand when artists want to take liberties, and they understand when we tell them they can or can't do something. It's all for the good of the project. That's why we have a layout stage, which is something this contest is missing. They try some different ideas and get input before drawing finished pages that may need to be redone.

[MartinRedmond]

Jose's staging is better than the script's. You don't get any closer to witnessing someone part the seas than what Jose did with this. I'm glad he was my reluctant second choice, he did me proud. He was a last minute impulse choice in my selections and now WOW!!!

Heck, I'm amazed no one fell asleep drawing this dull excuse to see Aspen nude being attacked by giant flying phaluses.

[polystyleneman]

Heck, I'm amazed no one fell asleep drawing this dull excuse to see Aspen nude being attacked by giant flying phaluses.

Hey, we have to work with what we get, right?

[R Santos Jr]

Heck, I'm amazed no one fell asleep drawing this dull excuse to see Aspen nude being attacked by giant flying phaluses.
It took every cold and flu medicine on the market, but somehow I managed to do just that. ^^;

[DKBingham]

I've got three favorites: Jose Holder, Charles Paul Wilson III, and Daniel Lafrance.

[Vince Hernandez]

Jose's staging is better than the script's. You don't get any closer to witnessing someone part the seas than what Jose did with this. I'm glad he was my reluctant second choice, he did me proud. He was a last minute impulse choice in my selections and now WOW!!!

Heck, I'm amazed no one fell asleep drawing this dull excuse to see Aspen nude being attacked by giant flying phaluses.

Ooh good one Martin. Burn.

[luv2pencil]

Well now for my general critique. It will be general because I have noticed that mostly everyone has been making the same mistakes. I will list the exceptions at the end. One thing I have noticed from most contestants and Play at Home folks is that there isnt much contrast between characters and backgrounds. I think this is due to the lack of confidence in succesfully executing the human figure. Many have trouble keeping their figures consistent. I notice Some start off with a realistic looking figure in panel 1 and by the time it reaches the last panel of the final page, it's a manga or cartoony looking figure and vice versa.

As for backgrounds, I notice everyone is doing an excellent job at drawing the exterior of the beach house. Unfortunately, I cannot say the same for the interiors. In many cases they are not consistent to their exterior and poorly referenced. Some of these houses have this wonderful exterior post modern look and a backwoods cabin interior look.

Everyone has been doing good job as far as layouts are concerned.

"When in doubt, leave it alone" I notice there is alot of poor and careless rendering where it isnt really necessary. There is alot of scribbling to represent blacks, grass an other things. It really has ruined some pages for some potential work.

Inks do not improve weak pencils they only seal your fate!

My word of advice is to "keep it simple" (I will leave out the "stupid" part because I feel we are all intelligent on here and have somewhat of a grasp on what we are doing). Keeping it simple makes it easier to identify and correct mistakes. If something does not look right, do not try to ignore or disguise it with inks, shadows, smoke, or other elements. A common mistake many artists make is that they will draw let's say a face they really like. They tend to build their figure around that face and thus seem to forget or ignore other elements that are not drawn as well or to their satisfaction of the face.

Furthermore, there has been a few exceptions. The following 4 artists are not perfect though they seem pretty comfortable with their craft and the closest to professional that I have witnessed so far.

Dan_M
CP Wlson
Warren_0
Wilfredo Torres

[polystyleneman]

I've seen a lot of negative criticism here, especially for the official contestants, and especially from people who have not contributed themselves yet critique with a confident voice of authority.

So, I've decided in all fairness to point out the good points of each official contestant, as well as the script, in all fairness. There's far too little legitimate positive feedback going around here, IMO.

1) The script. We've all had our little gripes and frustrations with the script, but let's face it it was designed to be challenging. It's no excuse for anything. It presents us (artists) with numerous test of our skill: can we draw quiet scenes as well as action? How about vehicles, cars? military vehicles? Can we hold back and follow direction or are we too eager to jump for the money shot? (How many people couldn't resist showing too much of the helicopter, or even show it being demolished) Can we draw close ups? Hands? (Always a challenge) How about debris and explosions? Very common and challenging. And yes, it was designed to put Aspen in a situation where we had to delicately choose how to portray her, but that was a good challenge for us, wasn't it? Drawing sensual but tasteful women in comics is always a challenge for young male artists. How about seeing how wehandle an established character with our own individual style? Another good challenge. Let's go into this assuming the pros know what they're doing, guys. There were reasons for the script being the one used.

Now for the artists, focusing on their strengths.

1) Nick Pitarra - The level of detail and the ability to create tactile texture is incredible! This guy definitely has his own, recognizable style. The line quality is clean and defined, creating characters and objects that are easily found by the eye. This art seems to occupy it's own world, which is nice.

2) Jose Holder - A lot of us have been critical of Jose's derivations from the script. Well you know what, he could have very well had all of these changes approved by Mr. Hernandez. What is undebatable is his level of skill when it comes to rendering and composition, and in creating an atmosphere. Very good use of shadow and sharp contrast.

3) Charles Paul Wilson III - Personally, I think the final panel of Charles' story is his best, and one of the best of the contestants who submitted so far. His characters and structures, as well as the vehicles are all very well drawn with competent lighting and confidence. The explosion of the house is also very well done, particularly for it's expressionistic style.

4) Daniel Lafrance - Daniel's backgrounds are fantastic! A very difficult thing to handle for a lot of artists. Once again, a well-handled explosion with a high degree of impact. Despite any arguments about script limitations, I like the handling of Aspen tracked under the wreckage and deciding to fight back. (Someone criticized the decision of having Chance give Aspen the towel, which is fine since it deferred from the script. But then the same person in the same post asked where the towel came from!)

5) Jon Reed - One of my favorites! I love the unique styling of the characters. Reminds me a bit of the great Walt Simonson. Shows real confidence. Very nicely done with few reasons to criticize.

6) Warren Leonhardt - A bit different that some of the other styles, a style which to me seems very well-suited for books toward younger viewers. (That's not a knock AT ALL - that style of art takes it's own level of skill for sure.) I like that Warren was up for adding details that weren't asked for, such as Aspen's reaction to the explosion. I was always told "include everything the writer describes, but you can always add details as appropriate."

7) Wilfredo Torres - Sorry, the images don't seem to be working right now.

8) Dan McDaid - Another unique style. Retro, in a good way. I think taking a style like this shows a lot of confidence! And the storytelling is solid as well.

9) Andrew Huerta - Again, like Jose, very strong contrasts with the lights and darks. I think Aspen's finger pointing toward the towel shows some of the most competent foreshortening for this panel. The technical rendering of the bottom panel is rather nice, even if I'm not sure what exactly is happening.
I like the contrast between Aspen's face of shock at seeing Chance and her face when she's cutting loose!

10) Caio Oliveira - Overall, very nice! I'm glad you made it in in time! The line quality and competency of your forms, organic and non-organic are very competent. I really like the shot of the car in the first panel.

[AzIz]

Id like to add all my line work is mostly pencil. The huge blacks are done with fat sharpies. Thats it. :)

[shwa96]

Just to end the "maybe the changes were approved" debate, Vince Hernandez has stated that not one person contacted him to clarify anything in the script.

[Nick Pitarra]

Yes.



No, they would go to the editor. The editor is their contact at the publisher and is often the one who chose to put the artist on the project. Not only do you risk upsetting your editor if you circumvent him or her, you're wasting time, because the writer answers to the editor as well. The editor is the arbiter of the project, and while any changes he or she agrees with will probably go to the writer for comment, if the editor doesn't agree with the proposed change, then that's the end of it. There's no point consulting the writer.



I would disagree with that. Completely changing the establishing shot is not superficial. Especially when it gives away something that the writer wanted as a subtle reveal without establishing any of the information the writer considered important to include in the shot.

Let's break it down.

P1 - This should not give away the existence of the helicopter. It also fails to establish the house and Chance's car. It barely establishes the peninsula given that it's almost an afterthought in the reflection. Some readers may not even notice that reflection as significant information.

P2 - This should establish the towel, which is a forgotten detail in the far background. It's a significant element, and there's a reason it is noted as being in the foreground. It's her motivation for leaning out of the door, and it's what she points to in panel 3. Yes, dialogue will establish that she's asking for a towel, but an artist shouldn't rely on dialogue. He needs to tell the story visually to the best of his ability.

P3 - This is supposed to be a tight shot on a whirring chopper blade, the first we see of it. We shouldn't know at this point if it's a military chopper, a news chopper, or a personal chopper. Until we see missiles shooting at the house, we shouldn't know there is imminent danger. Instead, we get a full view of the weapon-laden aircraft. Worse still, the artist has decided to add a second chopper to the scene. If this was the first three pages of a full issue, wouldn't an extraneous chopper be problematic? She destroys one at the end of page 3 and then, unless the following pages are rewritten, you've got an unaccounted for gunship hovering around.

P4 - This is the establishing shot of the main character and the only shot where we get to see her before the house blows up, and the artist has switched the angle so that we don't even see her face. The writer specifically noted what he wanted to see in this panel because he wanted to establish the character. We need to see her expression as she interacts with Chance, and we DO NOT need to see her naked. We'll have plenty of opportunity for that on the next two pages. It's not too much to ask for one panel that focuses on her face.

P5 - Okay, this is the one panel where there isn't something that I would demand be redrawn (other than removing the second helicopter), but it's still not the most effective use of the space. The POV from the chopper firing the missiles is to establish without a doubt that they're being fired at the house. Since the house hasn't been established, that's problematic. If it isn't established, then we definitely need to know exactly where the missiles are going in this panel. If he redraws panel 1 as it should be, however, there's enough information that not having that detail in panel 5 is forgivable. Though it is still not as effective as it could be. If he's got to redraw 4 of the 5 panels, there's not much point in salvaging that one, and I would probably tell him to redraw the entire page.

So that's page 1.

Well...I feel a kinship of sorts with these other 9 contestants, so maybe I'm wrong. For me...Joh James (Jose Holder) without question....did the best pages in the contest...by far...not even close. Some of yall are speaking as if we didn't take into account everything yall are saying now...4 days ago when we got the script. I promise you we did (we spent hours on each panel...thinking about how it will read...and also how it will look). I think you are being near sighted if you can't see the inventiveness in Joh James pages. From an artist stand point...he rocked this shit. He did something new and fresh...and soaked in coolness. I think everyone did just about the level of work that their respective porfolio reflects...the assignment itself (Fathom) dictated alot....their is only a handful of artist I'd want to see on a Fathom book. I mean come on...I love Ed Mcguiness but could you imagine him on fathom? It comes down to style and content. Congrats to my ten fellow contestants...and to the guys rocking the Play at home thread<--amazing stuff keeps popping up over there.

P.S. Your pages were the best Joh...but don't think for a second i wont be voting for myself.;)

[Brandon Hanvey]

Just to end the "maybe the changes were approved" debate, Vince Hernandez has stated that not one person contacted him to clarify anything in the script.

Yeah I was a little surprised by that too. Each of them had a chance to contact Vince to clarify things or see if altering the script was ok.

[polystyleneman]

In case you guys haven't noticed, one of the judges has posted his critiques in the actual Comic Book Idol Competition. Very valuable insights, definitely worth checking out.

[kalorama]

I've seen a lot of negative criticism here, especially for the official contestants, and especially from people who have not contributed themselves yet critique with a confident voice of authority.

So, I've decided in all fairness to point out the good points of each official contestant, as well as the script, in all fairness. There's far too little legitimate positive feedback going around here, IMO.

There's nothing "unfair" about negative criticism as long as it's honest, constructive, and focused on the work, not the person, and the vast majority of the criticism here fits that description. In fact, a very easy argument could be made that pointing out the flaws or weaknesses in a piece is more useful to a developing artist that praising his or her work unconditionally.

As for the criticism coming from "people who have not contributed themselves..." well, that's the whole point of this thread (and this contest) isn't it? We the fans who aren't contestants get to express our opinions and vote for our favorites. If you're going to take the position that criticism is less valid or insightful if it's coming from someone who's not a proven artist, then shouldn't that same standard also apply to praise? Why should criticism coming from someone who hasn't contributed (and by implication, if I'm reading your underlying point correctly, may not even know what they're talking about) carry less weight than praise coming from someone with the same qualifications (or lack thereof)?

I don't want to make a thing out of this, but I kind of knew this would come up at some point. There's nothing wrong with pointing out perceived weaknesses and flaws in the work. I would think/hope the contestants would expect it, even welcome it, as long as it's done the right way. And, for the most part, it has been.

[AzIz]

Well...I feel a kinship of sorts with these other 9 contestants, so maybe I'm wrong. For me...Joh James (Jose Holder) without question....did the best pages in the contest...by far...not even close. Some of yall are speaking as if we didn't take into account everything yall are saying now...4 days ago when we got the script. I promise you we did (we spent hours on each panel...thinking about how it will read...and also how it will look). I think you are being near sighted if you can't see the inventiveness in Joh James pages. From an artist stand point...he rocked this shit. He did something new and fresh...and soaked in coolness. I think everyone did just about the level of work that their respective porfolio reflects...the assignment itself (Fathom) dictated alot....their is only a handful of artist I'd want to see on a Fathom book. I mean come on...I love Ed Mcguiness but could you imagine him on fathom? It comes down to style and content. Congrats to my ten fellow contestants...and to the guys rocking the Play at home thread<--amazing stuff keeps popping up over there.

P.S. Your pages were the best Joh...but don't think for a second i wont be voting for myself.;)

I think being artistic is perfectly fine for a creator owned project or a project when youre given alot of freedom, but when it comes down to reading off scripts/freelance work? it's a lot safer to draw whats written down. IMO, anyways.

[shwa96]

Well...I feel a kinship of sorts with these other 9 contestants, so maybe I'm wrong. For me...Joh James (Jose Holder) without question....did the best pages in the contest...by far...not even close. Some of yall are speaking as if we didn't take into account everything yall are saying now...4 days ago when we got the script. I promise you we did (we spent hours on each panel...thinking about how it will read...and also how it will look). I think you are being near sighted if you can't see the inventiveness in Joh James pages. From an artist stand point...he rocked this shit. He did something new and fresh...and soaked in coolness. I think everyone did just about the level of work that their respective porfolio reflects...the assignment itself (Fathom) dictated alot....their is only a handful of artist I'd want to see on a Fathom book. I mean come on...I love Ed Mcguiness but could you imagine him on fathom? It comes down to style and content. Congrats to my ten fellow contestants...and to the guys rocking the Play at home thread<--amazing stuff keeps popping up over there.

P.S. Your pages were the best Joh...but don't think for a second i wont be voting for myself.;)

No one has said anything detrimental about Jose's ability. What we're discussing is whether or not he should be deviating so much from the script. I'm simply saying that, especially in these circumstances, it's not a good idea. If you go read Hernandez's comments to your pages, which don't take nearly as many liberties as Jose's, you'll see what I mean.

[escapegoat]

I'm betting we'll be seeing a lot less "script deviation" now in the next round. ;)

[Maresk]

Just to end the "maybe the changes were approved" debate, Vince Hernandez has stated that not one person contacted him to clarify anything in the script.

Well, then I admit my reluctancy is totally invalidated. Let's cry bloody murder and throw rotten vegetables at them. I'll bring the tomatoes.

Kidding, kidding...:p

[polystyleneman]

I don't want to make a thing out of this, but I kind of knew this would come up at some point. There's nothing wrong with pointing out perceived weaknesses and flaws in the work. I would think/hope the contestants would expect it, even welcome it, as long as it's done the right way. And, for the most part, it has been.

Please don't get me wrong. You are absolutely right. Getting criticism will go a long way to help all of us. I just don't think we are spending enough time pointing out what we like. That's all. It's good to know what people like about work as well. But let's be fair, each one of these artists have shown a considerable amount of skill and they deserve some props as well as criticism.

[Nick Pitarra]

No one has said anything detrimental about Jose's ability. What we're discussing is whether or not he should be deviating so much from the script. I'm simply saying that, especially in these circumstances, it's not a good idea. If you go read Hernandez's comments to your pages, which don't take nearly as many liberties as Jose's, you'll see what I mean.

True. I guess I look at it like this. You put all ten artist pages next to each other...or better...we are all in line waiting for crits with a publisher(he's going to hire one of us). My money is on Jose for this round. I think with a book like Fathom,the art comes first...and to be fair...I imagine all the writers are putting stuff down with their artist in mind. I just hated scrolling down this comments page (feeling like he did the best pages)and seeing comment after comment of him getting ripped. The guy drew a cool ass story...about a guy and a girl in a beach house...that got blown up by a helicopter...he got hurt ...she's got pissed...and blew it up. I guess I'm just simple like that...it was a fun action packed story(props to the writer) with cool visuals(props to the artist).Everybody's happy.

~nick

[escapegoat]

Alrighty, here're are the first of my critiques. I'll haveta get to the other ones tomorrow. I'm not gonna focus too on much about the script deviations, since we're already well aware of that issue. :P


Nick Pitarra
Alrighty man...I've already said that I love your style....we have the same faves for artists out there in the field. You did a great job envoking the style of your idols.

Page 1 - Great opening panel, as well as inside the house. The only panel that didn't quite work on this page was the last one. I think it woulda looked better if Aspen was peering from around the door. She almost comes across a little too slutty here, but you've already explained your reasoning to your approach.

Page 2 - Cool view from inside the cockpit, but the missles are a little hard to pick up in the shot. Also moving this panel over from page one takes away from the suspense factor that was intended by having the missile fire at the end of page one (Vince has since explained this before I could post this). Great explosion of the house. I was curious to se how many of the contestants were going to deviate and have the explosion occur from the outside instead of from the inside of thew house (though I was hoping you woulda given a inside explosion shot because of your crazy-ass detailing). A challenging image to call for with an inside the-house explosion, because more often than not it's a lot easier on the artist to depict such an explosion from the outside (but some of the other contestants did a good job on the inside explosion shot as I'll point out further on). Love the way Aspen flowed through the wreckage on the last page, though I woulda put more wreckage on top of her (I don't think it woulda been hard to push a portion of chain-link fence off of yourself if you were trapped under it)

Page 3 - Love the reaction shot of Aspen in the first panel. You also did a great job of covering the naughty bits in panels 1 and 2. The last panel looks good, but lacked a little of the "umph" factor. It's a little bit too "straight-on". I think some perspective from either Aspen or the copter woulda helped a little in this case.


Jose Holder
You weren't one of my 10 predicted picks for the finals, but you've impressed me here and also did an great job this round.

Page 1 - Loved the first image because it's such a different approach, even if it deviated a lot from the script. But at the same time it also pulled away from establishing the scene by not giving us a clear sense of the beachhouse and t-bird. The open panels worked okay here, but the odd shape of the third panel was reeeeally distracting to me. The odd shape really didn't serve any purpose, even with the mountain bit on the horizon. I liked the fourth panel as well, though again it failed to establish Aspen's introduction to the scene. I would have worked well as an additional panel proceeding Aspen's introduction panel.

Panel 2 - Another good explosion panel - not the easiest panel to pull off. Again, the odd panel shape for panel 2 was distracting and served no purpose to context or as a storytelling device. I know it's may be a style thing, but using odd shaped panels can detract from the storytelling if misued and abused because you don't want to distract from the process of pulling your reader into the story.

Panel 3 - I liked this page a lot. This time you managed to do a good job of leading my eye around a tricky layout and odd panel shapes. Beautiful final panel.


Charles Paul Wilson III
The second of my predicted picks that made it through. You pulled this round off fairly well.

Page 1 - You added a lot of extra panels to this page, and did it a somewhat successful way. I dont' think there was a real need to break up the first panel in the plot into 2 separate panels, but I can how you're doing this in an attempt to pull us into the scene inside the house, so it works there. I also didn't see the need for the close-up for Chance at first, but again I could see why you did as a means to introduce him to the scene. I think I woulda preferred to have seen the Chance close-up taken out and have the inside room scene extended. You did a great job of showing Aspen in the background in the shower in that scene (The best out of everyone else, I struggled with figuring how to depict that part of the scene). You did a good intro of Aspen in the sixth panel, but the perspective of the seventh panel is a little skewed.

Page 2 - Loved the frenziness of the explosion (Probably the best indoor explosion of the bunch). The stuff inbetween was good, but I really didn't like the last panel, because it looks like Aspen is phasing through the wreckage like Kitty Pryde, instead of flowing through it.

Page 3 - A somewhat decent third page. Some body proportion wonkiness, but a great fiinishing panel.


Daniel Lafrance
The third of my predicted picks. I looked forward to seeing how you'd do, and you pulled it off okay.

Page 1 - Beautiful first panel, really pulls you in. Panels 2-4 are also decent - nothing bad I can find with them. The extra panel at the end deviates too much from the script and doesn't really do much here. You woulda been better depicting the missile shot as called for suspence reasoning (as I mentioned in Nick's entry)

Page 2 - Another great outdoor explosion, and the wreckage scenes work out really well. I liked how you tried for a claustriphobic feel in the third panel by zooming in and making the panel smaller. Also really liked the way you depcited her escape from the wreckage.

Page 3 - This page doesn't work so well to me. The first panel is good, but the last panel doesn't pull off the called for money shot to me (despite it being confusing in the script and open to some interpretation)

[shwa96]

True. I guess I look at it like this. You put all ten artist pages next to each other...or better...we are all in line waiting for crits with a publisher(he's going to hire one of us). My money is on Jose for this round. I think with a book like Fathom,the art comes first...and to be fair...I imagine all the writers are putting stuff down with their artist in mind. I just hated scrolling down this comments page (feeling like he did the best pages)and seeing comment after comment of him getting ripped. The guy drew a cool ass story...about a guy and a girl in a beach house...that got blown up by a helicopter...he got hurt ...she's got pissed...and blew it up. I guess I'm just simple like that...it was a fun action packed story(props to the writer) with cool visuals(props to the artist).Everybody's happy.

~nick

You're still taking this personally, albeit for another artist, which is strange. If you're going to be a professional artist, you need to learn to accept and incorporate criticism. Just because your editor tells you something needs to be changed doesn't mean it's "bad". It could be cool as hell, but it doesn't fit the story.

Like Vince said, some of these panels were intended as tests, and one of those tests is how you follow instructions. The last panel, for instance, was drawn by many people to include the chopper, though the script clearly said it was off panel. In this 3 pages, showing the explosion is fine, but like the problem I pointed out earlier with Jose adding an extra chopper, it comes back to bite you in the @$$ later. What if you draw these and then script revisions come in showing 4&5 as a double page spread of the explosion?

Jose's page 3 looks great. I'd say it's his best page, and the last panel looks good by itself. Doesn't change the fact that it may not fit the book as a whole.

Keep in mind that potential employers are going to consider how well you take direction. Is your work going to need a lot of revisions? Are you going to fight them on revisions? Will it take so long to get what they want that it will delay the book? That goes for writers and artists. I've seen promising projects canceled or abandoned just because one of the talent was too difficult to work with. So just remember, unless it's creator owned, you're working for someone else, and they're going to get what they want. They write the checks after all. And if it's too difficult for them to get what they want out of you, regardless of how much talent you've got, they're going to find someone else.

[the_poet]

Hmm, Aspen really liked Jose's version! That's a surprise - I thought the lack of an establishing shot on page 1 was a deal-killer for sure.

[Maresk]

Hmm, Aspen really liked Jose's version! That's a surprise - I thought the lack of an establishing shot on page 1 was a deal-killer for sure.

Why would anyone think that? Sure, the guy didn't followed the directions. Of course he needs to work on that. If he's any smart, he'll learn the lessons and follow the script next time, or at least consult with the higher powers.

But the fact that visually, each one of his pages is teh awesomeness is still undeniable. :cool:

[Brandon Hanvey]

Just remember the judges are there to give advise and their opinion on the works.

It is ultimately up to the public to vote who the like the most with the two lowest vote getters being eliminated.

[Jordan D. White]

My two favorite entries in this round are Daniel LaFrance and Jose Holder. Jose did not follow the script exactly on page 1, and Daniel had his amazing apparating towel, but they drew the best looking stories, to my mind.

[kalorama]

But let's be fair, each one of these artists have shown a considerable amount of skill and they deserve some props as well as criticism.

But the two aren't mutually exclusive nor do they necessarily have to walk hand in hand. And, again, it's not unfair to offer critique, unless it's done in a denigrating way. It's perfectly fair to comment on perceived problems as long as it's done in the proper way and proper context with the proper tone.

Just remember the judges are there to give advise and their opinion on the works.

It is ultimately up to the public to vote who the like the most with the two lowest vote getters being eliminated.

True, but if the rest of us weren't being encouraged to comment and give our opinions then this thread wouldn't be specifically titled the "Public Comment Thread." Obviously, one would expect the contestants to give much more weight to the judges opinions. That goes without saying. But that doesn't preclude the possibility that a contestant might glean something useful from a reader's critique.

I just don't think anyone should be discouraged from making constructive, respectful critiques just because their comments aren't perceived as "positive" enough.

[polystyleneman]

I just don't think anyone should be discouraged from making constructive, respectful critiques just because their comments aren't perceived as "positive" enough.

I agree. But at the same time I'm going to chime in if I feel that enough hasn't been said about what does work. That's all. We are free to give our opinion on both sides.

[shwa96]

Why is no one talking about Dan McDaid?

For his style, the guy is solid. And even though his style limits the kind of book he could do, to me that's the one guy that's a lock to be one of the success stories of this competition. If he's not doing an Oni or Image book shortly after this contest is over, I'll be shocked.

I wouldn't be surprised if Vince doesn't like him though, because it's nowhere near Aspen style.

[Grendal]

JOse has the best set of pages hands down..good stuff man.

[Daniel L.]

My two favorite entries in this round are Daniel LaFrance and Jose Holder. Jose did not follow the script exactly on page 1, and Daniel had his amazing apparating towel, but they drew the best looking stories, to my mind.

Thanks Jordan.:)
Regarding the towel...It felt a bit weird using the towel, but the script said in bold letters NO NUDITY and as far as I know, a shot of a naked girl with steam covering her nipples or poses avoiding frontal nudity are still nudity shots.
And about the towel still being there after she transformed back from her water state, her powers allow her to do that (see: Issue 7. page 7, she's fully dressed, quickly transforms into water to let a missile go thru her and then she's back with all her clothes on).
Don't get me wrong, I'm not making excuses here, but because I'm the only one out of the ten to use the towel she was pointing at, I just thought I would shed some light on the mysterious appearing towel.
Regarding the liberties I took with the script, I was under the impression that we had the choice to follow the script or not.
Cheers!

[escapegoat]

Like Vince said, some of these panels were intended as tests, and one of those tests is how you follow instructions. The last panel, for instance, was drawn by many people to include the chopper, though the script clearly said it was off panel.

Whoawhoawhoa...not to be a thorn in your side again shwa, but if you're talking about page 3, panel 3 then you might wanna look at it again. I pointed out in the Play at Home about how poorly worded it was, and it was deternined that it could be interpreted in two different ways:

Aspen shoots a blast from her water powers off panel at us (us being the helicopter within the panel)

Aspen shoots a blast from her water powers off panel at us (us being the helicopter off panel)

If anyone here has an english degree and can explain which interpretation should be the naturally occurring, then please feel free to do so. But the fact of the matter was that there was still a bit of confusion between some of us participants in the Play at Home thread with the way the sentence was written. I never bothered PM'ing Mr Hernandez about because I really felt it wouldn't be a big issue whether we interpreted it one way or another in the Play at Home thread. I'm just surprised none of the contestants PM'ed Mr Hernandez with any questions at all!

A proper way to have writen that sentence the way it was meant to be interpreted by Mr Hernandez could have been "Aspen shoots a blast from her water powers towards the helicopter off panel". But maybe I'm wrong?

Now of course, some of the contestants showed both Aspen and the helicopter, which doesn't give them much excuse - unless they were confused and figured the best thing to do in that instance was to show both (since it appears they were all too afraid to ask Mr Hernandez) :p

[Brandon Hanvey]

The us he is referring to is the reader.

[escapegoat]

And about the towel still being there after she transformed back from her water state, her powers allow her to do that (see: Issue 7. page 7, she's fully dressed, quickly transforms into water to let a missile go thru her and then she's back with all her clothes on).


Finally! Now I know! I was curious about that factor back in the "Round One is Posted" thread, but no one ever gave an answer to it... :D

Instead, my fellow posters only told me she had to be nude....what a bunch of perverts :p

[escapegoat]

The us he is referring to is the reader.
But why would she want to hurt the reader? It was the helicopter that fired the missile :p

[Brandon Hanvey]

Finally! Now I know! I was curious about that factor back in the "Round One is Posted" thread, but no one ever gave an answer to it... :D

Instead, my fellow posters only told me she had to be nude....what a bunch of perverts :p

Heh.

Vince wanted the artists to draw her nude and artistically cover it up.

I knew I'd get a ton of flack for having Aspen nude in this page, but I really wanted to see how creative each respective artist would get with hiding her bits and pieces.

[escapegoat]

Heh.

Vince wanted the artists to draw her nude and artistically cover it up.

So what you're saying is, Vince is a pervert? :p

(Man, I gotta shut up or I'm gonna get banned...)

Yeah, I got the idea of that being part of the challenge for this round, after everyone told me she has to be nude. :D

To further clarify "us, the helicopter", on page 3 panel 2 it states " Imagine our POV as if we we’re the pilots of the Comanche." I carried that POV notice into panel 4, which I see now is not how I should have interpreted it. My bad. :o

[dfantasia]

To be able to draw like that in such a small time frame is unbelievable. You are amazing, Charles!

[CPWilsonIII]

To be able to draw like that in such a small time frame is unbelievable. You are amazing, Charles!

Thanks, and glad to see you registered! Next poker night I'll be buying cider with the money I won from you last game!

[shwa96]

Whoawhoawhoa...not to be a thorn in your side again shwa, but if you're talking about page 3, panel 3 then you might wanna look at it again. I pointed out in the Play at Home about how poorly worded it was, and it was deternined that it could be interpreted in two different ways:

Aspen shoots a blast from her water powers off panel at us (us being the helicopter within the panel)

Aspen shoots a blast from her water powers off panel at us (us being the helicopter off panel)

If anyone here has an english degree and can explain which interpretation should be the naturally occurring, then please feel free to do so. But the fact of the matter was that there was still a bit of confusion between some of us participants in the Play at Home thread with the way the sentence was written. I never bothered PM'ing Mr Hernandez about because I really felt it wouldn't be a big issue whether we interpreted it one way or another in the Play at Home thread. I'm just surprised none of the contestants PM'ed Mr Hernandez with any questions at all!

A proper way to have writen that sentence the way it was meant to be interpreted by Mr Hernandez could have been "Aspen shoots a blast from her water powers towards the helicopter off panel". But maybe I'm wrong?

Now of course, some of the contestants showed both Aspen and the helicopter, which doesn't give them much excuse - unless they were confused and figured the best thing to do in that instance was to show both (since it appears they were all too afraid to ask Mr Hernandez) :p

"Us" is always going to be the camera or the reader, depending on how you think of it.

"Aspen shoots a blast from her water powers off panel at us. Both of her hands are supercharged with Blue energy from the blast as she unleashes a death blow to the Comanche helicopter."

It's not poorly worded. It tells you exactly what should be in the panel and what the perspective should be. And even if you find the wording confusing, which won't be the case once you're used to reading scripts, you should be able to figure it out. Off panel immediately indicates that you're not supposed to see both Aspen and the chopper. The only possible way to misread it is to feature the helicopter and have Aspen blowing it up from off panel. If that were the case "from" would be there. Even if you don't catch that, from the description, Aspen is clearly in the panel (supercharged hands), so the chopper can't be as well. And if it were the case, it would be talking about the chopper, not her. Mentioning the chopper is only there to clarify what she's shooting at.

"Aspen shoots a blast from her water powers towards the helicopter off panel" wouldn't work, because it doesn't tell the artist that he's supposed to direct it at the camera. It could be off camera to the side, straight up...whatever. "Aspen shoots a blast from her water powers off panel at us" tells us direction (at us) and that the target is not seen (off panel).

[kalorama]

I agree. But at the same time I'm going to chime in if I feel that enough hasn't been said about what does work. That's all. We are free to give our opinion on both sides.

Of course we are. That was my point all along, and it was never the issue. You can express whatever opinion you like, but so can those with differing ones. It seemed like you were making a point of calling people out for being "too negative" and I really don't see that as being productive, as long as the rules of civility are held to, which they have been.

[kalorama]

"Us" is always going to be the camera or the reader, depending on how you think of it.

"Aspen shoots a blast from her water powers off panel at us. Both of her hands are supercharged with Blue energy from the blast as she unleashes a death blow to the Comanche helicopter."

It's not poorly worded. It tells you exactly what should be in the panel and what the perspective should be. And even if you find the wording confusing, which won't be the case once you're used to reading scripts, you should be able to figure it out. Off panel immediately indicates that you're not supposed to see both Aspen and the chopper. The only possible way to misread it is to feature the helicopter and have Aspen blowing it up from off panel. If that were the case "from" would be there.

When I first read it I thought it did say "from off panel," which made no sense because how could she be shooting "at us" (the camera) if she's also off panel? For a minute I was envisioning her forearms and hands peeking around the side of the panel shooting water at the camera. Realizing that was crazy, I read it again and realized what was really being said.

[Steev]

Boy, there's a lot of "armchair quarterbacks" in here. :rolleyes:

My three favs for this round are Pitarra for the weird he brought to this, Wilson for the straight forward goodness and Holder for some badass rendering.

Nicky Poo stayed true to his style and cranked up the detail. It works. I don't see him as a regular penciller for this type of book but he is sooooo good at what he does.

Chaz has a timeless classic comic feel in all his work. This is no exception. Sweet rendering. I can see him drawing just about anything.

Holder blasts me with that old Warren B&W look. Reminicent of Morato, E.R. Cruz or Nebres. Man, I could look at this all day.

I see these three going the distance. They're telling the story and rocking the art. That's my two cents.

[escapegoat]

When I first read it I thought it did say "from off panel," which made no sense because how could she be shooting "at us" (the camera) if she's also off panel? For a minute I was envisioning her forearms and hands peeking around the side of the panel shooting water at the camera. Realizing that was crazy, I read it again and realized what was really being said.

And when I read it a second time, it still didn't make sense to me! :D

But it did for others, and it didn't for others....and then I went ape#$#% all over the threads...

I made interpretational mistakes, what can I say?

(Other than the possibility of a contestant or two who could have also done the same...)

[escapegoat]

The only possible way to misread it is to feature the helicopter and have Aspen blowing it up from off panel. If that were the case "from" would be there.

And that's how I was misreading it, and finding it strange to be set up that way. (Sorry if my previous explanations weren't clear before in saying that)

Thanks for the insights on plot scrpt reading again ;)

If I were a real contestant here, then I would have definitely contacted Mr Hernandez on my confusion (along with a couple of other questions).

[Vig]

Why is no one talking about Dan McDaid?

For his style, the guy is solid. And even though his style limits the kind of book he could do, to me that's the one guy that's a lock to be one of the success stories of this competition. If he's not doing an Oni or Image book shortly after this contest is over, I'll be shocked.

I wouldn't be surprised if Vince doesn't like him though, because it's nowhere near Aspen style.

My thoughts exactly. Dan's layout and sense of motion was tops. Maybe he's not Aspen caliber, but his storytelling is very strong.

[the goddamn batman]

Why is no one talking about Dan McDaid?


Also, Dan McDaid? Win.

:) I think the guys stuff is totally solid.

[the goddamn batman]

Boy, there's a lot of "armchair quarterbacks" in here. :rolleyes:


You don't have to be able to do better to know what you like.

[Phil Clark]

And it is heartening to see that the script writer echoes some of the comments that have been made by the "armchair quarterbacks". And he is the pro.

[armornsilversreak]

My top 4 (couldn't force myself to choose 3) are Dan McDaid, Jose Holder, and CP WIlson, Wilfredo Torres in no particular order

Dan McDaid's style is very refreshing. It's retro and beautiful, captivating in it's simplicity. That's not to say his style is simple. I'm saying he knows his craft well enough to know what lines he needs to tell he story and he uses only those. His inks were also highly polished and equally beautiful. It's art I could just stare at and continue to love. The only knock I can think to place on him is that his style doesn't quite fit a mass market book. OGNs or series along the lines of Hawaiian Dick would be perfect for him. Again, beautiful art.

Jose Holder is captivating also but in the opposite direction. It has so much energy and expression it sucks you in. Where McDaid nuzzles you and pulls you in with his art Holder grabs you by the hair, like the little bitch you are, and forces you to read more, and you thank him for it. I think he did give us an establishing shot reflected in the goggles of the pilot. Something I think improved on the story telling aspect because that one panel serves the dual purpose of letting us know the general environment while also warning the reader of impending danger. A few people have commented on how he didn't provide a shot of the car. So what? is the story about a car exploding or Aspen avenging herself? Jose showed the elements critical to the story. His pages were full of similar images which to my mind only helped the story. Not to mention Michael Freaking Turner thought his was the best.

CP Wilson is a nice balance between the preceding two artists. He has a great style and layouts. He tells the story very well. Also, he shows that he can do extreme stuff with that final panel. Which to me helps his story telling he allowed the intensity of the art to build with the story. the art climaxes right along with the story. My only suggestion would be to push it a little more these pages would be perfect for print but in a competition like this you need to stand out something the preceding two did extremely well IMHO.

Wilfredo Torres' art is also beautiful. It has this ultra realistic feel to it, but when things turn into an action movie (house blowing up on page 2) the poses change into this almost Kirby style which is bad ass because Kirby is king. I don't know if this was a conscious choice or not but I still like the hell out of it.

My .02 USD

[Steev]

You don't have to be able to do better to know what you like.
My point exactly. If you can't do better, why pick it apart? Leave that to the judges. You know what you like so just enjoy.

I'm not trying to start a fight. There's just seems to be a ton of negativity and these guys are under enough stress as it is. Give 'em a break.

[Steev]

And it is heartening to see that the script writer echoes some of the comments that have been made by the "armchair quarterbacks". And he is the pro.

Some of the comments? Yes, but not all. Many have been bashing Holder for deviating so much from the script but at least one judge is overly impressed by him and is showing his work around. My opinion is, this would be more fun with less negative and more positive. These are the top ten, let's build them up instead of filling them with self-doubt.

[J. Torres]

While I agree with Steev, everyone is entitled to their opinion - positive or negative.

But that said, let's please stay on topic, i.e. commenting about the art, the assignments, and the artists - NOT arguing about how to comment or calling each other out about each others' comments.

Don't make us start deleting posts ;)

[Steev]

While I agree with Steev, everyone is entitled to their opinion - positive or negative.

But that said, let's please stay on topic, i.e. commenting about the art, the assignments, and the artists - NOT arguing about how to comment or calling each other out about each others' comments.

Don't make us start deleting posts ;)

I'll behave now. :)

[BBagley]

So, I 'm gonna have to go with Wilfredo Torres and Dan McDaid as my overall faves. Good storytelling, great art and following the script pretty closely.

I saw quickly the similarity to Darwyn Cooke in McDaid's work, but I knew there was someone else he reminded me of, and another person mentioned Joe Staton, and McDaid has the things I always liked about Staton. Once upon a time I hated Staton's work, but it grew on me, and nobody draws G'nort better.

Fred just rocks in his pencils and style. Let me tell you from personal experience, you don't want to follow him into a portfolio review. Then again, I doubt he's going to have to go through too many more of those at the Cons. I know a few have pointed out Aspen's supposedly missing digit on page 1, panel 4, but I don't think it's missing. Her thumb is tucked down and you see a silhouette. Her Index finger is pointing out toward her towel. Yeah, the index finger is not quite right, a little chunky so I see how other may have seen it as a thumb.

I appreciate those who have chimed in on the importance of sticking to the script, or at least communicating with the writer/editor to make changes.
I know it's us, the public, who will decide the winners, and not the judges. And it may very well be someone who makes a lot of changes to the script that wins, but the guys who follow the script best and do good work may come out better in the end, because it will be the Editors (judges) who hand out more longterm work or projects that go beyond the prizes of the contest.

[comicinlaw]

Perhaps parenthesis or a hyphen would have helped clarify the whole "off panel" direction. (English major)

[Phil Clark]

...but at least one judge is overly impressed by him and is showing his work around.

In total fairness... that judge showed ALL of the entries around. Not just one persons.

Let's not bash each other for making negative comments about the 10 finalists not following the script. Part of the rules of the competition are "Follow directions". And the biggest direction on this assignment is the script. So making changes to the script (moving panels around, changing panels content) qualifies as not following directions.

It isn't as if people are saying "Artist A sucks". Besides... if these guys end up going pro, they are going to have a lot worse said about them then this eventually. They have to know how to block that out and draw, regardless of what the fans say. Because even though the fans are the ultimate audience, the editors and the writers are the final customers. It is those people that you have to please if you want to work in this field.

Not following the script is only going to lead to your not getting work. And since this competition is about getting work, following the script should be first and foremost for the artists.

If I can just work through my current artists block, I will do up my version of these pages, and the other projects, and then everyone can pick my work apart to.

[Mongoose mcCloud]

In no particular order...

Jose Holder - highly reminiscent of Euro-comic greats like Ortiz, and I'm surprised no-one's tried to poach him for paid work already. Great storytelling that makes as much of the page layout as it does the action happening upon it.

Dan McDaid - younger readers will laugh at the clean lines and clear storytelling as simplistic, but the mainstreaming of artists like Phil Hester and Bruce Timm have reclaimed storytelling from all-flash artistry that emphasises drawing boobs over telling the tale. There's a great dynamic at work here that gives the whole thing a stylistic vibe that many clones of superstar artists lack. The first panel is especially lovely.

Wilfredo Torres - a kinda Adam Hughes-vibe going on - nudity, but not overtly sexual in tone. Clean and slightly stylised, a good inker could have a field day with this, but they'd need to clean up that bottom-left panel so it stood out more.

[Jack Flash]

My three favs for this round are Pitarra for the weird he brought to this, Wilson for the straight forward goodness and Holder for some badass rendering.

Nicky Poo stayed true to his style and cranked up the detail. It works. I don't see him as a regular penciller for this type of book but he is sooooo good at what he does.

Chaz has a timeless classic comic feel in all his work. This is no exception. Sweet rendering. I can see him drawing just about anything.

Holder blasts me with that old Warren B&W look. Reminicent of Morato, E.R. Cruz or Nebres. Man, I could look at this all day.

I see these three going the distance. They're telling the story and rocking the art. That's my two cents.

these are my three faves as well.

[mightyfineline]

Wilfredo Torres - a kinda Adam Hughes-vibe going on - nudity, but not overtly sexual in tone. Clean and slightly stylised, a good inker could have a field day with this, but they'd need to clean up that bottom-left panel so it stood out more.

Wow... Adam Hughes?? One guy before referred to me as the Gaijin Studios guy too. I guess I must be doing 'something' right. Thanks.

[BADunn]

1. Charles Paul Wilson III
Layout is controlled but not stale. He created a dynamic shot of Aspen's attack that no one else matched. But, even though he's the favorite so far, he might not get my vote because...

2. Dan McDaid
I Love the retro style! This sets him apart from the other competitors. It may also hurt him but I like that he's taking risks rather than being another status-quo artist. He gets extra points for ink and shading too.

3. Jose Holder
Again, he has a definite style and clearly stands out from the others. However, I must say that he deviated too much from the script.

I'm torn about who to vote for but I'm leaning towards Dan if only because of his retro/Bruce Timm style. I don't want to not vote for Charles just because he seems like the front runner. I've seen it before where popular artists in this competition have lost only because people thought they were shoo-ins. Jose probably won't get my vote this round but I'll pay attention to him.

[willustrator]

My three favs.

Jose Holder
By far and away no.1 is Jose Holder. Very Professional, Very tight. Best anatomy and nice story telling

Nick Pitarra. Lots of detail, has a strong style

Dan McDaid Very good but I expected more

[Nick Pitarra]

Thanks for the love Steev! That means alot from the guy who hands it to me every sketch challenge.Your work is incredible man. When am I going to see the project you and Jason are putting together?

Willustrator,dude your work is awesome,I hope your gig is working out for you man,it seems you were picked to play along with us. Needless to say that's one super talent us contestants don't have to worry about. Can't wait to see what your working on!

Jack Flash thanks for your support buddy....I'm going to try and find your work right after I post...if your an artist that is).

Thanks for taking the time with those crits Escape Goat,I know they are time consuming and I really appreciate you making the effort and really looking at stuff....I still got to get over to play at home and throw down my crits. Keep up the good work man!

You guys rock!

~nick

[warren_0]

6) Warren Leonhardt - A bit different that some of the other styles, a style which to me seems very well-suited for books toward younger viewers. (That's not a knock AT ALL - that style of art takes it's own level of skill for sure.) I like that Warren was up for adding details that weren't asked for, such as Aspen's reaction to the explosion. I was always told "include everything the writer describes, but you can always add details as appropriate."

Thanks Polystyleneman! :o Personally, I think my entry this round was stiff as a board, but younger viewers are where it's at for me. No harm, no foul!

:D T10 GO! :D
(couldn't resist)

[escapegoat]

Alrighty, here's my second batch of comments for the next three contestants...

Jon Reed

Wow, after taking another look. I see that you were the first one to follow the plot script to a T. Kudos on that. Your style is a little alternative for an image-style assignment, but you make it work in a Bachalo-less sense.

Page 1 – Everything is set up good here. Very nice opening panel. If I were to nitpick at anything, it would be the straight onwardness of panels 2 and 4. They aren’t very dynamic perspective-wise. A bigger panel 2 would also help set up the inside-the-house scene a little more (which can be tough with panels 1 and 4 demanding the attention on the page as well – maybe accomplishable with a slightly smaller panel 1)

Page 2 – As pointed out by others, Chance’s posture looks totally wrong in panel 1. In my opinion, it woulda been best to turn his body around so that the explosion is coming from behind. Though straigtening his legs and placing them more in front of him would work as well. Panels 2 and 3 come across very well.

Panel 3 – Haha, Ryall’s E.T. neck comment has now been permanently engrained to my brain! :P
I can see his point, but I also see that’s it’s just a part of your style, so you’re not losing any points with me on this matter. The rest of this page comes across really well.


Warren Leonhardt

The second person to play the plot/script to a T (….well almost, just noticed a slight added deviation on page 3), so kudos on that.

Page 1 – Overall, it’s laid out pretty well, and I think you did the best at giving panle 4 the attention that was asked for in the script. Perspective is a little missing on some items in panel 2. It also appears that Aspen has the ability to move things with her mind because that chair got a little closer to her in panel 4.

Page 2 – Nicely set up as well. I like how you’ve included Aspen in the main shot. I also like the tilted panels 2 and 3 here because this time the skewed paneling helps in creating a sense of chaos from the explosion.

Page 3 – Again, nicely laid out. I like the deviation reaction close-up that you did do here…it works really well. The eye flows nicely to the water fist powering up. The only shot that doesn’t work for me is the last panel, which I can personally excuse because I’ve complained enough about that in this thread. :p


Wilfredo Torres

The third person to almost play the plot/script to a T (First page, panel 3 setup being the exception). I guess after the first four submissions, the rest put the extra effort into following script instructions? (We’ll see when I look over the last three submissions again)

Page 1 – Layout’s pretty good. I found it odd to have a lot of focus on the T-bird in the first panel. I think that attention should have gone to the house (unless the T-bird would become integral later on after page 3). Back view of Chance in panel 2 is not good, since it doesn’t establish him well enough in the scene. It looks to me that you did the research on the copter, so good job there. Panel 4 would have better served to not break the border into panel 3.

Page 2 – A lot of this page didn’t work for me. It was a tricky shot to pull off. I’m not really feeling the explosion in the first panel and Chance feels a tad bit like he’s floating. Aspen’s position doesn’t work for me in the second panel, though the rest of it looks good. The third panel looks nice, but it doesn’t convey her escape from the rubble that well either…sorry.

Page 3 – This page is a lot better, the best out of the 3. You do a great job covering the naughty bits, and I think you nailed that last panel 100% (now that I know how it should be interpreted :D)

[Steev]

Thanks for the love Steev! That means alot from the guy who hands it to me every sketch challenge.Your work is incredible man. When am I going to see the project you and Jason are putting together?

Steev love? Get a shot before it starts to burn.
Better send me that pic you owe me or when you get famous I won't buy your books. ;)

To the the project you just have to look. You have access.

[mightyfineline]

I guess after the fist four submissions, the rest put the extra effort into following script instructions?

Yeah Goat - Jon, Warren and I actually decided we would wait until after the first 4 submissions had already been posted so we could see what everyone else did before we started on ours... I'm still amazed we were able to meet the deadline :rolleyes:

thanks for the Review :D

[DanielSchenstrom]

CBIround1comments

If we only get one vote, this will be a tough one.
I wont comment on following the script because that's been done. I will however overuse the word solid.

CPWilsonIII: Solid linework, and most of the time it looks really professional. I can see how this would look inked and I think it's a slick style. There are three things I don't like in all three pages, the car in panel two just doesn't look right, like the perspective is a bit off. Second is the tilt of the angle of panel 4 which just feel like it's done for no reason. Thirs is Aspen's foot in the final panel.
Aspen's face, while very expressive seem to change a bit much from panel to panel on the last page.

Daniel L: It's all decent work. The first panels of page one and two are very well done but the rest is a bit uninspring. It lacks some of the sense of drama of a few of the others' pages. I think that he would be best suited to more down to earth stories, slice of life, more observational stuff.

Jose Holder: Very nice "designey" panels, and nice rendering. It lacks a bit of urgency in the panel with the missiles coming at us and the expolsion is nicely drawn but a bit too distant. The layout design go a bit overboard on the third panel. I think it would be ebtter served with some distance between panel borders. Beautiful, I'd look forward to a comic book drawn by him.

Nick Pitarra: A stand out look for sure, european perhaps... I don't see it as a superhero style though, it seems more suited to quirky scifi or fantasy stories. The final panel of the final page is a bit underwhelming. I can think of a few more interesting variants. Otherwise solid stuff.

Jon Reed: Nice stuff, quirky and organic. There a few things that make me go "what?" like her face in the second panel of the third page.

Warren Leonhard: A simple, easily read look. The only place I feel it doesn't work is the top three panels of the first page. Her blast on page three could have used a better angle, feels like we're too far removed from the action. Solid stuff though.

Wilfredo Torres: The style is solid (gah, gotta stop that) and there's nothing wrong with anything, but it doesn't do anything for me personally.

Dan McDaid: A bit of a copout but the same thing I said about Wilfredo goes for him too.

Andrew Huerta: I have really mixed feelings about this. Some parts are really slick and some a bit too sketchy. According to him they were done in one evening and for that they're incredible. His and Jose's styles are the ones that appeal to me the most. I just wished he would have taken more time here.
Real nice effects.

Caio Oliveira: A slick style and mostly solid. The two bad things that stand out is the sillhoutte of the heli on the first page and how Aspens boyfriend looks in the explosion.
I feel like I need to see more before I really know what to think of his work.


My faves are Jose and Andrew in this round with CPWilson and Jon a bit behind. I just need to decide who to vote for. Bribes goes in the mailbox.

[Maresk]

BTW, where are the rest of the judges and their comments? That's the best part of the show! :mad:

[Brandon Hanvey]

BTW, where are the rest of the judges and their comments? That's the best part of the show! :mad:

They should be posted soon. They have until Wednesday 12 PM (EST) to post them. Plus if we don't have enough judge critiques of each contestant, we may delay the public vote by a few hours.

[polystyleneman]

And when is the public voting again? The window is pretty narrow if I remember right?

[Brandon Hanvey]

And when is the public voting again? The window is pretty narrow if I remember right?

It is scheduled to open on Wednesday at around 12 PM EST (9 AM PST) and close on Thursday at 12 PM EST (9 AM PST). If it pushed back by a few hours due to lack of judge reviews, it will still be a 24 hour period.

[escapegoat]

And the last of my critiques...

Dan McDaid
The fourth and last of my predicted picks. I looked forward to seeing how you'd do, and you pulled it off great.
Page 1 – Everything looks nicely laid out. The overhead layout of the house/t-bird in the last panel is a little bit off from the first panel.
Page 2 – Again, everything looks nicely laid out. Awesome use of sound effect in the explosion. I think this explosion ties for best with Charles Wilson’s, the more I look at it. While it was a deviation for Aspen to be underwater in the second shot, I still like it and how you worked it into the third panel.
Page 3 – Wow….I really can’t find much to say that’s bad in these three pages. I feel that the first panel’s a bit too big for what’s called for, and takes away from creating a final “big shot” panel…that’s about it. Your storytelling skills are high up there and you’re able to convey the plot script really well. And while your style does not generally fit the “image” style, it was still fun to read these three pages in your style.


Andrew Huerta
A fairly good attempt. I see some good stuff that works and some that doesn’t. (Looks like all of the remaining players played it closer to the script than the first four I reviewed yesterday :p)

Page 1 – Good opening shot. Second panel doesn’t work so well for me. Towel detail in the foreground isn’t obvious enough when I look at it, and you don’t really catch the bathroom behind Chance. A horizontal layout woulda probably been better to establish this scene, in order for you to fit the required elements into the scene. Love the third panel. Great shot of the blades – we just need to be a little closer to the house to see it in the panel (I’m guessing you placed it far away to give a more “copter approaching the scene” feel?). Panel 4 is okay, but I got the sense that Aspen was commanding Chance to get her towel instead of being more ...I dunno...pleasent? playful? .... she’s like all “Get my towel now, bitch!" to him :p . Last panel looks nice, but also doesn’t quite clearly convey 100% to the reader what’s going on, if they were to read this for the first time.

Page 2 – Explosion’s not bad, but for reasons I can’t pinpoint, Chance just looks odd in it. Panel 2’s not bad, but a little too straight on of a shot for me. Panel 3 suffers from the “Aspen is phasing through the rock like Kitty Pryde” effect, rather than flowing around the wrecakge that I got from the script.

Page 3 – Your best page of the bunch. The only thing I’d change for sure is the third panel by making it a little smaller so that more room can be added for the final shot.


Caio Oliveira
And finally the last of the bunch. Another decent attempt at the assignment. Some good points and some bad.

Page 1 – Nice opening shot…a little bigger than necessary. The crazy tilted palm tree was already pointed out, and I think a little too much attention igs given to the t-bird by placing right in the foreground – I’d move it back up against the house. The other four panels all work good. I kinda like the focus effect you gave the missiles on the last panel, but I’m not sure if the technique you’re striving for fully works.

Page 2 – The explosion’s okay, but not my favorite of the bunch. Panel 2 is quite nice, but it fails to convey Aspen being trapped in the rubble, which leads to a very confusing panel 3.

Page 3 – Love the first shot.. lots of drama there, and Aspen’s pose is great. Second panel’s faults have already been touched upon by the other posters. Love the third panel as well. Fourth panel’s not bad either, but I’m not getting much power out of her shot, which appears to look like a ball of water rather than a deadly destructive blast.

[Mark Cardwell]

There's a few good 'uns there, a few that look downright rushed (understandably), but the one that stands out for me remains Dan McDaid.

[Maresk]

For me, Dan is the man too, simply because I'll take Kirby, Timm or Cooke over Lee, Silvestri or Hitch any time of the week. If I were more a mainstream superhero guy, though, I would pick Jose Holder undoubtedly.

[polystyleneman]

Man, I am like obsessed with this thing! I keep coming back looking for anything new, thankfully Mr. Hernandez has been making reviews, which are....interesting.

[polystyleneman]

Dan McDaid certainly has been getting attention lately in these posts....

[kalorama]

McCaid's stuff is solid, even though his style isn't really a match for this kind of character. Hopefully the "story" type will vary enough from round to round so that the contestants will be able to show what they can do in different genres.

[shwa96]

Why is no one talking about Dan McDaid?

For his style, the guy is solid. And even though his style limits the kind of book he could do, to me that's the one guy that's a lock to be one of the success stories of this competition. If he's not doing an Oni or Image book shortly after this contest is over, I'll be shocked.

I wouldn't be surprised if Vince doesn't like him though, because it's nowhere near Aspen style.

I stand corrected.

Vince says Dan's entry was his favorite. Didn't see that coming, and I must say Vince gained some respect in my eyes with that one.

[W.Blankenship]

Dan Mcdaid is rocking and so is Jose ( I believe that's who I'm thinking of). I'm still weighing whether to try one of the assignments in the Play at home.

3!LL

[W.Blankenship]

For me, Dan is the man too, simply because I'll take Kirby, Timm or Cooke over Lee, Silvestri or Hitch any time of the week. If I were more a mainstream superhero guy, though, I would pick Jose Holder undoubtedly.

AgreedTensome!

[J. Torres]

As I just posted here (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=194321), Marc and James are dealing with "computer issues" and are trying (have been trying!) to post as soon as they can!

[polystyleneman]

Wow! That's actually pretty exciting to see Silvestri posting here. I was a fan of his going quite a ways back with Uncanny X-Men stuff...

[Hieu Le Bui]

Marc and James are having computer issues ? Are they using Windows? LOL :D

Can't wait to see Marc comments, I heard he's the harshest critic around. He IS the Simon Cowe of CB Idol.

[phicks]

I can't see any artwork for Andrew and Dan...is there an issue with the weblinks?

[jpolacek]

I'm so glad CBR is doing another Comic Book Idol! Really great contestants this year. Hopefully being a part of this will help them take their talent to the next level and get more work.

Here's my thoughts for Round 1:

Best Aspen - Caio Oliveira - Page 1, Panel 4 - although the angle of the panel feels unnecessarily tilted 90 degrees, this is the best Aspen IMHO and most captures the babe factor

Best Explosion - Charles Paul Wilson III - wicked!!

Best Beachhouse - Charles Paul Wilson III - matches up exactly with what the script called for

Best Helicopter - Jose Holder - love that last panel where it gets hit with the water, very cool!

Best Anatomy - Wilfredo Torres - even though he made Aspen a little to bulky for the judges’ tastes, all his figures have real weight and dimension

Best Page Designs - Jose Holder - maybe he pushed it a little too far a couple times, but that's going to happen when you are really going for it

Most Polished - Dan McDaid - beautifully realized pages. great job!

[polystyleneman]

Just for my own edification, who is jameslucasoni? Anyone I would know in the industry?

[Brandon Hanvey]

Just for my own edification, who is jameslucasoni? Anyone I would know in the industry?

He is the editor in chief of Oni Press.

[Brandon Hanvey]

Public vote is now open. Go and cast your vote. It will close on Thursday the 18th at 12 PM EST (9 AM PST).

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=194290

[polystyleneman]

Thanks, guess I wasn't familiar with their books. Just went and checked out their website. A nice niche they have going there!

[Tasmeen]

Love your work and best wishes. Even for someone not into comics, I can follow the story as you brought it to life with the drawings.

[Kate Willært]

Am I the only one annoyed that I couldn't check out any of the contestants' entries on the break-room computers at work without getting in trouble, due to the soft-core porn script? Or are most of you so desensitized to it that you didn't really notice, or care?

Try to defend it however you want, but to the average non-comic reader (and your boss at work), this is porn. An action/adventure version of porn, but porn nonetheless. Not that I'm too surprised to see this sort of thing from the folks at Aspen, but I was way shocked to see CBR "okay" this as the first-round script (or any-round script, for that matter).

[R Santos Jr]

Am I the only one annoyed that I couldn't check out any of the contestants' entries on the break-room computers at work without getting in trouble, due to the soft-core porn script? Or are most of you so desensitized to it that you didn't really notice, or care?

Try to defend it however you want, but to the average non-comic reader (and your boss at work), this is porn. An action/adventure version of porn, but porn nonetheless. Not that I'm too surprised to see this sort of thing from the folks at Aspen, but I was way shocked to see CBR "okay" this as the first-round script (or any-round script, for that matter).

Not for nothing, but I think your beef is more with the individual artists than with CBR or Aspen itself. It was explained a number of times after the assignment was revealed that the artists were to come up with tasteful and creative ways to downplay the emphasis on Aspen's sensitive wardrobe dilemma...

What you got is what the 10 of them chose to draw.

[Grrrlfan]

To Kate Willaert,

I have a question...do you work in some mosque, moron temple or christian fundamentalist office?

How is the nude body soft core porn?

Human have been naked far longer than they've been clothed. Is a national Geographic soft-core porn? A birthing video? A photography magazine? Michaelangelo's 'David'? So if in your office you were looking through a brochure for the Louvré...you'd have to hide that from your boss?

I'm not saying that any of these are museum quality drawings...but I'm tired of people, especially those of us women yelling "PORN!" Every time something vaguely nude comes along.

Porn has to be sexualized or sexual in nature or reference. A naked woman or a drawing of her (or a man for that matter) is NOT porn.

Unless...of course...you're sexually aroused by that script and the drawings.

I doubt you'll be open minded or even convinceable, based on the wording you chose for that post...but get real. It's not porn—AND everything was covered up.

That'd only make it PG-13 in a movie theater...the MPAA wouldn't call it porn.

KCS

[Affinity]

Jose Holder was amazing! I really enjoy the Copa Cabana feel of the house and the action was littered with dynamic art and eye popping detail.

Ryall IDW was right in that the house looks waaay off in Jon Reed's depiction. I loved Holder's fun, pleasant beach house; I can't see them hanging pictures and whatnot. The figures are a lot off for me, too, but it's still strong.

CP Wilson's work is kind of fun! I like it and the way Aspen's face is cut.

Too much unnecessary detail in Nick Pitarra's work. It's a bit hard to follow, for me, and the way Aspen grabs her breast in that one panel is a little absurd.

I love McCaid in that it's clever in its own way. Sound effects are creative and perfect for this word-less script! The art is amazing and I would love to read this over the T&A version.

For Warren L., finally someone really picked up on the "make it count" prompt for Aspen's opener. The face is too typical Turner-stylized, though. I think diversity is important; everyone doesn't need to look like the top gun. How amazing was McCaid's? It definitely getsbetter, though, and this being pnecil work is amazing.

[Kate Willært]

When the nudity exists only for titilation is the problem. And what other reason is it there for in this? It's like a bad soft-core porn plot (with a higher budget)..."oops, silly me, I forgot my towel on the opposite side of the living room" "oh no, guess I'm going to have to fight this helicopter NAKED!" Puh-lease.

And I wouldn't have nearly as much a problem with it if we at least had some equal-opportunity objectification in comics...guys baring as much skin, as often as the girls. And posed in silly hip-twisting chest-thrusting poses as often. But that just doesn't happen...so much of it is just wank material for guys.

Imagine for a second the same script, except its Matthew Aspen and his girlfriend Chance. How many guys reading this just went "ewwwwww" at the thought of a naked guy for three pages...?

[davidbovey]

Try to defend it however you want, but to the average non-comic reader (and your boss at work), this is porn.

I think you are wrong. You'd have to be incredibly prude and or sheltered to consider this porn, softcore or whatever.

There isn't anything shown, it's merely suggested. Wouldn't get an R rating if it were made into a movie.

It may be a little gratuitous and objectifying but not porn or even close to it.

Is this porn?

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/ATA/5074W~David-Posters.jpg

It actually shows the body part and is in public, viewable to anyone and everyone. I don't think I've ever heard Michelangelo accused of being a pornographer.

[R Santos Jr]

To Kate Willaert,

I have a question...do you work in some mosque, moron temple or christian fundamentalist office?

How is the nude body soft core porn?

Human have been naked far longer than they've been clothed. Is a national Geographic soft-core porn? A birthing video? A photography magazine? Michaelangelo's 'David'? So if in your office you were looking through a brochure for the Louvré...you'd have to hide that from your boss?

I'm not saying that any of these are museum quality drawings...but I'm tired of people, especially those of us women yelling "PORN!" Every time something vaguely nude comes along.

Porn has to be sexualized or sexual in nature or reference. A naked woman or a drawing of her (or a man for that matter) is NOT porn.

Unless...of course...you're sexually aroused by that script and the drawings.

I doubt you'll be open minded or even convinceable, based on the wording you chose for that post...but get real. It's not porn—AND everything was covered up.

That'd only make it PG-13 in a movie theater...the MPAA wouldn't call it porn.

KCS
While I agree calling it soft porn is hyperbole, I think it's a valid point that many of the page presented in this first round are not exactly work safe. (ignoring the question as to whether looking at comic book art at work is safe at any workplace.)^^;

[Kate Willært]

It may be a little gratuitous and objectifying but not porn or even close to it.

Gratuitous and objectifying is exactly the difference between this and sculpture, etc., and is the big problem in comics today. Again, reverse the genders, and how many guys go "I don't want to see that...!"?

[R Santos Jr]

And I wouldn't have nearly as much a problem with it if we at least had some equal-opportunity objectification in comics...
Argument rendered null and void. Thank you for playing. Enjoy your lovely parting gift. ^^

What job do you work at where male nudity is more acceptable than female?
Comics? :3

[davidbovey]

Imagine for a second the same script, except its Matthew Aspen and his girlfriend Chance. How many guys reading this just went "ewwwwww" at the thought of a naked guy for three pages...?

This particular comicbook probably isn't written for you, nor are most "mainstream" comicbooks in general.

[R Santos Jr]

This particular comicbook probably isn't written for you, nor are most "mainstream" comicbooks in general.
BUT ALAS, THIS IS A STORY FOR ANOTHER THREAD...

[Kate Willært]

Argument rendered null and void. Thank you for playing. Enjoy your lovely parting gift. ^^

What job do you work at where male nudity is more acceptable than female?
Comics? :3

I was speaking of comics in general, silly, not these samples. I don't mind a little sexiness in comics, but I think there should be some equality in the sexiness displayed. And also, if it did become roughly equalized, I doubt you'd *have* stories like "oops, I'm naked" in a (supposedly) mainstream book, because people would finally get how tasteless it is. I'm talking about equal-shares of tasteful sexiness, not gratuitous.

[Kate Willært]

This particular comicbook probably isn't written for you, nor are most "mainstream" comicbooks in general.

Fathom, yes...and as a result, I don't buy it. But sample scripts in a contest, should've been for "everyone." Female artists did try-out for this, you know. None of them made it, but what if a few had? Or for that matter, if any of our male artists are gay. Yet they have to illustrate this blatantly cheesecake script, or forfeit the first round?

On the topic of "mainstream" books, that's a whole other debate. Needless to say, the fact that the majority pander to such a small group is part of what holds mainstream comics back, and something that needs to change (and will in the future, as more of us girls manage to break in).

[davidbovey]

Gratuitous and objectifying is exactly the difference between this and sculpture, etc., and is the big problem in comics today. Again, reverse the genders, and how many guys go "I don't want to see that...!"?

Seriously? I've watched Terminator 2 at least 15 times and it doesn't bother me that for the first 15 minutes of the movie, Arnold is butt naked. I don't even think the thought of soft core porn even crossed my mind.

That's the best example I can think of.

[R Santos Jr]

I was speaking of comics in general, silly, not these samples. I don't mind a little sexiness in comics, but I think there should be some equality in the sexiness displayed. And also, if it did become roughly equalized, I doubt you'd *have* stories like "oops, I'm naked" in a (supposedly) mainstream book, because people would finally get how tasteless it is. I'm talking about equal-shares of tasteful sexiness, not gratuitous.
Yeah, I get what you're saying...
But AYE, THERE'S THE RUB...
This is a thread specifically for the pages posted for round one. ^^ A general discussion about the over-sexualization of female characters in comics is probably more suited to a general discussion thread.

But seriously, I don't think there will *ever* be a time where "oops, I'm naked~!" will EVER go out of style. :P

[davidbovey]

Fathom, yes...and as a result, I don't buy it. But sample scripts in a contest, should've been for "everyone." Female artists did try-out for this, you know. None of them made it, but what if a few had? Or for that matter, if any of our male artists are gay. Yet they have to illustrate this blatantly cheesecake script, or forfeit the first round?

On the topic of "mainstream" books, that's a whole other debate. Needless to say, the fact that the majority pander to such a small group is part of what holds mainstream comics back, and something that needs to change (and will in the future, as more of us girls manage to break in).

I think men should take over the soft core porn romance novel industry that caters to women, and completely turn it on it's head.

[Kate Willært]

Seriously? I've watched Terminator 2 at least 15 times and it doesn't bother me that for the first 15 minutes of the movie, Arnold is butt naked. I don't even think the thought of soft core porn even crossed my mind.

That's the best example I can think of.

You mean for a whole 2 minutes (though probably even less than that on-screen) before he took some clothes off some guy? The fact that it felt like 15 minutes (one-tenth of the movie) to you says plenty... ;-)

[R Santos Jr]

Seriously? I've watched Terminator 2 at least 15 times and it doesn't bother me that for the first 15 minutes of the movie, Arnold is butt naked. I don't even think the thought of soft core porn even crossed my mind.

That's the best example I can think of.
How about in Terminator 3 when Arnahld walks butt naked into that male strip club? When he strips the stripper of his S+M leather outfit? :P

Seriously, this discussion about the sexual identity of the artists and the content they are asked to draw is getting stupid now. I work with girls that draw naked girls ALL THE TIME. This argument is getting ignorant as well as off-topic.
And no, before you even start, asking guys to draw naked guys is no different.
Please, let's get back to discussing the Round 1 art.

This is not the forum for this line of discussion.

[davidbovey]

You mean for a whole 2 minutes (though probably even less than that on-screen) before he took some clothes off some guy? The fact that it felt like 15 minutes (one-tenth of the movie) to you says plenty... ;-)

If this script were part of a movie, Aspen would have been naked for less time than Arnold. Arnold materializes, walks through town and into a biker bar before he beats the crap out of a guy and steals his clothing.

[elheffe]

Gotta agree with Kate Willært. I already posted this on one of the other threads, but this character has water based powers, yet she's taking a shower? Seems like an excuse to have a naked girl run through a few pages.

[Kate Willært]

I think men should take over the soft core porn romance novel industry that caters to women, and completely turn it on it's head.

Wow, so you are actually opposed to comics reaching a wider audience? I guess that says everything. "It's *my* clubhouse...MINE!"

As far as romance, I could care less...it's never appealed to me. I like action and adventure, fighting and explosions. I got in via X-Men, because unlike a lot of mainstream books, it doesn't try to play up as often to male readers' libido, plus that the team is fairly 50/50 male and female (not to mention diverse racially as well). And people wonder why it's been one of the highest sellers for decades?

BTW, you do know that comics weren't originally created exclusively for males, right? In fact, there was a period pre-60's when roughly equal numbers of guys and girls read (even a short time when possibly more *girls* read). Or are you that oblivious to comics history?

But don't worry, you'll always have your wank comics. They just won't be considered "mainstream" in the future.

[Kate Willært]

How about in Terminator 3 when Arnahld walks butt naked into that male strip club? When he strips the stripper of his S+M leather outfit? :P

I haven't seen the third one...maybe I should... ;-)

I work with girls that draw naked girls ALL THE TIME.

And that is totally their choice. I am all about choice. But in the case of this contest, there wouldn't much choice...draw gratuitous nudity, or forfeit. If I were offered a script like this to do as a paid gig, I'd flat turn it down. But for a contest that offers so many opportunities, that's a crappy choice to be forced to make.

Please, let's get back to discussing the Round 1 art. This is not the forum for this line of discussion.

I originally started it as a separate thread, but one of the mods joined it to this one. *shrugs*

[R Santos Jr]

but this character has water based powers, yet she's taking a shower? Seems like an excuse to have a naked girl run through a few pages.
HA! I REVEAL MY FACE DOWN TRAP REPLY!!
Mr. Hernandez covered why Aspen needs to shower already in another thread...
Because she can't turn the water into soap, shampoo, or conditioner:o
:P

I originally started it as a separate thread, but one of the mods joined it to this one. *shrugs*
That was back when you were commenting specifically on the artwork in the CBI contest... not mainstream comics on the whole. That discussion belongs in a whole 'nother forum. :(
But in the case of this contest, there wouldn't much choice...draw gratuitous nudity, or forfeit. If I were offered a script like this to do as a paid gig, I'd flat turn it down. But for a contest that offers so many opportunities, that's a crappy choice to be forced to make.
That's where the artists ability to use their creativity to handle the script comes into play...
The script never BLATANTLY tells the reader that Aspen is NAKED. In fact, you are forewarned to NOT DRAW FULL NUDITY. How you interpret those instructions is totally up to you and totally part of the challenge...
If you were following the competition from the very beginning, rather than jumping on during the voting phase to cry foul, you'd understand that.

[davidbovey]

Wow, so you are actually opposed to comics reaching a wider audience? I guess that says everything. "It's *my* clubhouse...MINE!"

I guess it does say everything considering you're trying to put words into my mouth. The point I'm making is that there is stuff out there that objectifies men and is much more pornographic than a few pages of script that actually shows nothing at all and isn't sexual in any way. Yet you call it porn.

I guess the point just flew over your head.

As far as romance, I could care less...it's never appealed to me. I like action and adventure, fighting and explosions. I got in via X-Men, because unlike a lot of mainstream books, it doesn't try to play up as often to male readers' libido, plus that the team is fairly 50/50 male and female (not to mention diverse racially as well). And people wonder why it's been one of the highest sellers for decades?

I like action and adverture too. Ever see Romancing the Stone? Was in porngraphy when Michael Douglass lands face first in what's her name's crotch after sliding down the mountain side? That was far more suggestive than this script.

BTW, you do know that comics weren't originally created exclusively for males, right? In fact, there was a period pre-60's when roughly equal numbers of guys and girls read (even a short time when possibly more *girls* read). Or are you that oblivious to comics history?

I remember when comics were made for kids. Those kids grew up and most of them don't have a warped sense of what porn is. Sniping at me about comicbook history when you've shown yourself to be completely oblivious is pretty rich.

But don't worry, you'll always have your wank comics. They just won't be considered "mainstream" in the future.

I don't read comics for that reason, I don't even read Fathom or have any interest in it. However I'm not bothered by mildly suggestive content and have given you an example of the role being reversed in movies, where it didn't bother me. How is this different than Terminator 2 and is that movie pornogrpahic to you? If it's not, then you're a hypocrite.

It's fine if you don't want to have any part of it, I just think you have absolutely no perspective on this at all. If you did, you wouldn't be calling this porn.

But seriously, I don't really have anything more to say other than this is a rediculous distraction.

[Physicdesigns]

well if this wa samerican idol or some other contest, you could refuse sing a genre of music because you think it sucks, but then why are you entering a comic drawing competition one of whiches prizes is to draw a cover for a mainstream comic.

Your whole talk of shoe being on other foot i find kind of funny, the same comics often feature men in skintight costumes with insanely chiseled anatomy http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/46/CANNON-HAWKEcmk.jpg/213px-CANNON-HAWKEcmk.jpg
what about uh namor or the other 100 men baiscally wearing speedos in comics, with thier backs arched for maximum chest showing. that form of comics is full of cheesecake for all. it is idealized work.
you have your own preconcieved ideas, and agenda, nothing in the script suggests sex. i dont even think he ever said make her look sexy. you take a shower everyday (or at least weekly probably) does that mean your sexed up every morning? I bet your taking showers just to titillate people. I know i am, i even do it in suggestive poses.

basically your making more of a big deal than it needs to be. If your an artist looking for a break, i dont think this script would offend your sensibilities. It is in fact entirely up to you to execute this script, you could put her in shadow, or have random objects cover even more than people have.

[Kate Willært]

The point I'm making is that there is stuff out there that objectifies men and is much more pornographic than a few pages of script that actually shows nothing at all and isn't sexual in any way. Yet you call it porn.

Yes, I do call it porn. Soft-core, to be exact. I made a point in my first post to say the script was soft-core. According to Wikipedia's entry on "softcore" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softcore): "Softcore pornography is designed to arouse without being explicit. Also: "In milder forms of softcore porn, much of the nudity is implied, such as the handbra technique, with only limited nipple exposure."

It's true that how porn-y the pages end up depend on how the artist interprets the script...but it'd be naive to look at Aspen's track record and not realize they were going for their usual softcore tone. If Michael Turner would've drawn these pages, they would've been softcore. Because that's what Turner does. His Fathom (as well as his Witchblade, one of whose core powers is to "oops, I lost my clothes" whenever the glove is activated) are softcore. Note that the example of softcore given right at the top of Wikipedia's softcore entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softcore) is not too far removed from one of Turner's own Fathom covers:
http://www.newsarama.com/Other_Publishers/Fathom3.jpg

You've just become so desensitized to seeing softcore in comics, you don't even realize how disgusting a lot of these books look to the average person on the street who hasn't grown up with comics.

[the goddamn batman]

The script never BLATANTLY tells the reader that Aspen is NAKED.

Do you know anyone who showers any other way? I've never showered with clothes on.

In fact, you are forewarned to NOT DRAW FULL NUDITY.

FULL NUDITY and "draw her stark ass naked... just don't show the bits." are different things.

Either way, she is in fact blatantly naked, as that's how everyone drew her.

(didn't one guy leave the towel on her and get a mention from an editor that that wasn't 'realistic'?)

How you interpret those instructions is totally up to you and totally part of the challenge...

Kinda... how you HIDE her bits is up to you and art of the challenge.

But she's asking for her towel, which I don't think she'd need if she wasn't naked when the house gets blown up.

I'm sorry, but the script calls for a fully nude (but hidden) Aspen the entire time. I have no problems with nudity in art or if it serves a valid point in a film or comic or what have you, but I think it's a bit of a strange choice for a contest like this.

Just my two cents.

[comicinlaw]

Do you know anyone who showers any other way? I've never showered with clothes on.



FULL NUDITY and "draw her stark ass naked... just don't show the bits." are different things.

Either way, she is in fact blatantly naked, as that's how everyone drew her.

(didn't one guy leave the towel on her and get a mention from an editor that that wasn't 'realistic'?)



Kinda... how you HIDE her bits is up to you and art of the challenge.

But she's asking for her towel, which I don't think she'd need if she wasn't naked when the house gets blown up.

I'm sorry, but the script calls for a fully nude (but hidden) Aspen the entire time. I have no problems with nudity in art or if it serves a valid point in a film or comic or what have you, but I think it's a bit of a strange choice for a contest like this.

Just my two cents.

ACTUALLY IF YOU READ THE SCRIPT - PAGE ONE, PANEL 4 "NO NUDITY" - NOT "NO NUDITY, BUT HIDDEN NUDITY" - NOT "NO NUDITY, BUT CAREFULLY PLACED WOOD CHIPS ARE ACCEPTABLE". COULD YOU PLEASE SHOW ME WHERE IN THE SCRIPT THE WRITER ASKS FOR ASPEN TO BE EXPOSED. I'VE READ IT AND RE-READ IT, DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND HOW WOOD CHIPS COVERING NIPPLES, OR A CAREFULLY PLACED HAND OVER A NAKED WOMAN, MAKE HER ANY LESS NAKED.

AND AS FOR THE MYSTERIOUSLY APPEARING TOWEL, SO AM I TO TAKE IT WHENEVER ASPEN CHANGES INTO HER WATER FORM IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET, SHE RETURNS NAKED TO HER FORMER SELF?

FINALLY, DOES SHE REALLY NEED TO BE NAKED IN HER WATER SELF TO FIGHT - WHY CAN'T SHE BE CLOTHED IN WATER? IS THAT HOW WOMEN ARE POWERFUL - WHEN WE ARE NAKED? HMMMM - MAYBE EVERYONE - INCLUDING CHANCE SHOULD BE NAKED SO THAT WE'RE ALL AD IDEM.

[singedtentacle]

Wow, the competition is stiff out there! I almost voted for Jose Holder, having an eye for detail and good use of spot blacks, but the only thing he lacked was a sense of composition in his panels.

Dan McDaid came close to getting my vote, having a very clean and precise style. He has an almost cartoony style, which I like a lot, but it almost seemed like too much simplification for me. (Can you have too much style?) I think his art would be much more useful in a good independent comic.

Everyone seems to be voting for Caio Oliveira, but I have to say I can't get into his work at all. After the first page, the submission lacks depth and a sense of composition. The only thing he has going for him is his use of detail. I was impressed with the amount of stuff he can fit in a panel, but to be the best, I believe it takes more than that. I'm not trying to bring anyone down. I think Caio has a lot of potential, but no one can appeal to everyone.

Warren Leonhardt turned out to be my favorite. Yes, his style is somewhat simplistic, but he has an undeniable ability to set up a good shot for his panels. Aspen's face in page 3 could use some work, but overall, this was by far the strongest piece presented. It seems like he rushed the last page trying to meet the deadline, and some of the shots could be shown from a different angle to show the urgency of the situation, such as the last panel in page 3, but I can look over this to see the talent Warren shows in his work.

[the goddamn batman]

ACTUALLY IF YOU READ THE SCRIPT - PAGE ONE, PANEL 4 "NO NUDITY" - NOT "NO NUDITY, BUT HIDDEN NUDITY" - NOT "NO NUDITY, BUT CAREFULLY PLACED WOOD CHIPS ARE ACCEPTABLE". COULD YOU PLEASE SHOW ME WHERE IN THE SCRIPT THE WRITER ASKS FOR ASPEN TO BE EXPOSED. I'VE READ IT AND RE-READ IT, DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND HOW WOOD CHIPS COVERING NIPPLES, OR A CAREFULLY PLACED HAND OVER A NAKED WOMAN, MAKE HER ANY LESS NAKED.


Wow... try turning the caps lock off. No one likes screaming.;)

Chris Ryall, Editor in Chief of IDW Publishing said to LaFrance, the only one who didn't draw her with hidden nudity (via the towel surviving the blast) for the last page:

"Wouldn’t her towel have been blown off in the explosion? I know the idea was to mask her nudity, but I’d like to have seen you mask her nudity through interesting choice of angles and shadows, not necessarily a rather implausibly resilient towel."

Then Vince, WHO WROTE THE SCRIPT said:

"I don't appreciate the improbability of her towel surviving the explosion and would have liked to see a more creative way of hiding her nudity."


So, yeah, she is supposed to be fully nude for the entire three pagees, you're just not suppose to show any of her bits. I dunno, maybe you shower with clothes on, but I don't. Nor do I know anyone who does. Which leaves me to understand that a woman coming out of the shower, who's house is blown up before she can get her towel would be left naked to fight the helicopter.


EDIT: I'm assuming you're arguing with me sense you quoted me, but I'm not really sure. You're english leaves a little to be desired in teh clarity department. Or maybe I'm jsut too tired for this right now

[elheffe]

HA! I REVEAL MY FACE DOWN TRAP REPLY!!
Mr. Hernandez covered why Aspen needs to shower already in another thread...

And I found it.
Because she can't turn the water into soap, shampoo, or conditioner
Sounds plausible, I guess. I think it have been cooler if she cleans herself by running her water form through a water filter.

[R Santos Jr]

As far as Aspen's post-explosion attire is concerned... being that I've never read a Fathom comic, nor could I find a solid and detailed accounting of her abilities... I might always guess that perhaps her water form comes complete with "Hulk's purple shorts"...
Or that those spiny Witchblade-y things she sometimes sports on the covers are made of unstable "hard water" molecules, or something...

[mightyfineline]

Or that those spiny Witchblade-y things she sometimes sports on the covers are made of unstable "hard water" molecules, or something...

What I wanted to do was to have her materialize in her corral, shell bikini thing once she switched back to 'flesh form' (in order to avoid the awkward nakedness) but I punked out for fear of getting the flesh flayed from my bones by all the pervs... hrrmm - uh, 'Fathom fans' that would have surely taken great pleasure in pointing out that's not how her powers work.

Had I known I was going to get slammed any way I would've just done it the way I wanted to... ah, lesson learned.

[Vince Hernandez]

What I wanted to do was to have her materialize in her corral, shell bikini thing once she switched back to 'flesh form' (in order to avoid the awkward nakedness) but I punked out for fear of getting the flesh flayed from my bones by all the pervs... hrrmm - uh, 'Fathom fans' that would have surely taken great pleasure in pointing out that's not how her powers work.

Had I known I was going to get slammed any way I would've just done it the way I wanted to... ah, lesson learned.

Wilfredo, you shouldn't get down on yourself for following the script. I do find it ironic though that you've sent me your samples before in the past-- presumably to work on our line of books, but now refer to the fans of one our staple properties as pervs. Hmm.

[mightyfineline]

I do find it ironic though that you've sent me your samples before in the past-- presumably to work on our line of books, but now refer to the fans of one our staple properties as pervs

A little bit of hypocrisy never hurt anyone.
Throw me enough money and I would draw you running around in the buff, although I think in that case I would pass on the photo ref. :D

[Vince Hernandez]

Lol. At least you're honest about your intentions.

[f1racer24]

Daniel keep up the great work. The contrast in the drawings and details really help tell the story. There is not confusion in the story telling.

one side note: I just find this web site hard to register and than place the vote, but managed. :)

Wishing all the best and YOU DESERVE TO MOVE TO THE NEXT ROUND!!!!!:)

[joelcook]

Where do we see the scripts for these pages? DO we get to see the scripts before the actual pages come out next week? somebody help me here...thanks!

[the goddamn batman]

Where do we see the scripts for these pages? DO we get to see the scripts before the actual pages come out next week? somebody help me here...thanks!

The script is posted on the blog. page two at this point. It's posted at the same time for everyone so that people can play at home and show their ability to meet the deadline.

[R Santos Jr]

Hey, how come nobody is showing a big shot of Aspen in the shower in the foreground, with Chance in the background on the 1st page? Just askin’.
....
I dunno about you guys (and ladies. :P)... but that sounds about as good an idea as any I've seen thus far. What do y'all think? XD

[joh james]

I did.:rolleyes:

[R Santos Jr]

I did.:rolleyes:

Oh... yeah.
OK then, I guess that wouldn't work at all! :P

[escapegoat]

The script specified that the shower was in the background....that's why everyone drew it that way. ;)

[R Santos Jr]

The script specified that the shower was in the background....that's why everyone drew it that way. ;)
If Marc Silvestri wants a full frontal shower scene featuring Aspen Matthews drawn, who's going to argue? ;)

[shwa96]

If Marc Silvestri wants a full frontal shower scene featuring Aspen Matthews drawn, who's going to argue? ;)

Marc didn't write the scene. Vince from Aspen Comics wrote it, and Aspen is not a Top Cow property.

[polystyleneman]

and Aspen is not a Top Cow property.

What does that have anything to do with it? (Asking, not challenging.)

And in Marc's defense, people made much bigger changes than a camera angle POV and some of the judges forgave them.

[shwa96]

What does that have anything to do with it? (Asking, not challenging.)

And in Marc's defense, people made much bigger changes than a camera angle POV and some of the judges forgave them.

Just clarifying. The implication was that Marc wrote it. He didn't.

Either that, or the implication was that Top Cow and Aspen are synonymous, but they're different companies.

[R Santos Jr]

Just clarifying. The implication was that Marc wrote it. He didn't.

Either that, or the implication was that Top Cow and Aspen are synonymous, but they're different companies.
The implication was neither. I know he neither writes nor owns anything having to do with Fathom...

It's Marc freakin' Silvestri. No further explanation necessary. XD

[J. Torres]

Hey, how about we move the party into one of the other rooms...

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=194546

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=194540

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=194290