View Full Version : So What Does Ion, the Whale, Do?
Captain Smith
10-11-2007, 08:38 AM
Parallax the Bug is in there slugging. The Guardians are all concerned and in the fight in part.
What does Ion actually do? Just sit in his tank and eat fish?
I'm confused about him.
Jack Zodiac
10-11-2007, 11:34 AM
Well, presumably, since Parallax is the cosmic entity representing fear, Ion would be the cosmic entity representing will. And I'd assume there are more of these cosmic avatars of the "emotional spectrum" out there, too. He probably does whatever Parallax does when he isn't stuck in a battery; he looks for people to host him. He found Kyle without Kyle knowing, after all.
marshal99
10-11-2007, 11:18 PM
Ah yes , another geoff johns special to join his stupid yellow fear monster creation - the green sperm whale is ion , the yellow stick bug is fear , now you need to find the rest of the color spectrum. What's next ? the pink elephant ? the blue turtle ?
patrick r
10-12-2007, 10:54 AM
Don't underestimate the power of the whale. Don't you remember in Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home the whale was the only creature able to communicate with the destructive alien probe and keep it from destroying the earth?
The whale will save us all.
What's next ?Actually, I hear it is red.
HotRod_Tim
10-12-2007, 01:55 PM
I noticed on the cover of GL #26 due out in December that Ion is on the cover, and with the solicitation noting a group known as the "Alpha Lanterns", I'm guessing that Ion will be used as Parallax was to the Sinestro Corps, constantly taking a host to empower them and make them stronger.
Black Atom
10-12-2007, 02:00 PM
Ah yes , another geoff johns special to join his stupid yellow fear monster creation - the green sperm whale is ion , the yellow stick bug is fear , now you need to find the rest of the color spectrum. What's next ? the pink elephant ? the blue turtle ?
In the context of superhero comics, is that really so silly?
"Immortal blue midgets is where I draw the line, sir!"
Raker616
10-12-2007, 10:04 PM
"Immortal blue midgets is where I draw the line, sir!"
QFT.
Bored at 3:00AM
10-13-2007, 02:55 AM
The idea of a Yellow Fear Monster Bug and a Green Willpower Whale are just too silly for a concept as serious-minded as Green Lantern has always been.
You see, we can't muddy the idea of blue midgets in red dresses handing out magic jewlery recharged by lamps to alien dudes like "guy with parrot-head" and "guy with asparagus head" and "big head with wee lil' arms and legs" and "talking chipmunk".
Yessiree, we must maintain the seriousness of Green Lantern at all costs...
BlueOrange25
10-13-2007, 03:59 AM
The idea of a Yellow Fear Monster Bug and a Green Willpower Whale are just too silly for a concept as serious-minded as Green Lantern has always been.
You see, we can't muddy the idea of blue midgets in red dresses handing out magic jewlery recharged by lamps to alien dudes like "guy with parrot-head" and "guy with asparagus head" and "big head with wee lil' arms and legs" and "talking chipmunk".
Yessiree, we must maintain the seriousness of Green Lantern at all costs...
LOL Well put, mate.
Flamebird
10-13-2007, 08:14 AM
The idea of a Yellow Fear Monster Bug and a Green Willpower Whale are just too silly for a concept as serious-minded as Green Lantern has always been.
You see, we can't muddy the idea of blue midgets in red dresses handing out magic jewlery recharged by lamps to alien dudes like "guy with parrot-head" and "guy with asparagus head" and "big head with wee lil' arms and legs" and "talking chipmunk".
Yessiree, we must maintain the seriousness of Green Lantern at all costs...
HEY! The talking chipmunk is Totally serious. . . it's that talking dog and his fireplug creations you gotta watch. ;)
The ONE cool thing about Ion was that it made Kyle unique, that he wasn't just another Green Lantern stuck in Hal's shadow. Sucks that they took it away from him.
marshal99
10-13-2007, 11:08 AM
Maybe Barney the purple dinosaur is another energy manifestation like ion or parallax. ;)
StoneGold
10-13-2007, 12:29 PM
The thing I don't get, over at Marvel, people don't seem to have a problem with universal conceptuals like Eternity, Death, Order, Chaos, etc. But they introduce them in DC, and people go all ape-poopy.
Kevinroc
10-13-2007, 01:13 PM
The thing I don't get, over at Marvel, people don't seem to have a problem with universal conceptuals like Eternity, Death, Order, Chaos, etc. But they introduce them in DC, and people go all ape-poopy.
DC has (or had, since the Vertigo line is being distanced from the super hero universe) universal conceptuals. They are called The Endless. Dream, Death, Desire, Destiny, Destruction, Delirium, Despair.
Jack Zodiac
10-13-2007, 03:25 PM
No, they don't. Vertigo does. DC barely uses them, and when they do, they use them ineffectively. The highest cosmic concepts DC has are the New Gods, which they also use ineffectively, and beyond them, the Lords of Order and Chaos, which they also manage to super-muck by constantly tying them down into spandex. The "emotional spectrum" might sound goofy as hell, but it's adding to a niche in DC that's pretty lacking.
Kevinroc
10-13-2007, 03:33 PM
No, they don't. Vertigo does. DC barely uses them, and when they do, they use them ineffectively. The highest cosmic concepts DC has are the New Gods, which they also use ineffectively, and beyond them, the Lords of Order and Chaos, which they also manage to super-muck by constantly tying them down into spandex. The "emotional spectrum" might sound goofy as hell, but it's adding to a niche in DC that's pretty lacking.
The relationship between DC and Vertigo these days is so very strange. We've seen Destiny in Waid's first arc of Brave & The Bold and Dream had a small cameo in JSA during that Infinite Crisis crossover. I'm blanking on any other relatively recent appearances of "Vertigo" characters in the DCU.
Jack Zodiac
10-13-2007, 03:46 PM
Well, Destiny had been a character since the House of... days, and his role was to guard the Book of Fate, so him showing up in Brave and the Bold just for that purpose wasn't off; but it's Daniel showing up here or there in JSA or JLA that bothers me. It drags that high perception of the Endless down to the realm of spandex in a bad way, unlike how Gaiman himself handled situations like that early in the series.
Anyway, I wouldn't be opposed to The Endless being used in the mainstream DCU, but I doubt very much anyone would be able to use them effectively outside of their own stories, and in the books of typical superheroes. Maybe in something like Shadowpact or maybe even a Dr. Fate book, eventually, but yeah... not in something like Justice Society.
The thing I don't get, over at Marvel, people don't seem to have a problem with universal conceptuals like Eternity, Death, Order, Chaos, etc. But they introduce them in DC, and people go all ape-poopy.
Hmmm... interesting question.
Maybe it's because some people just weren't a fan of the Paralax retcon. Or maybe there's a "Rainbow Bright" aspect to it that isn't coming off very well.
BoosterBronze
10-13-2007, 04:31 PM
No, they don't. Vertigo does. DC barely uses them, and when they do, they use them ineffectively. The highest cosmic concepts DC has are the New Gods, which they also use ineffectively, and beyond them, the Lords of Order and Chaos, which they also manage to super-muck by constantly tying them down into spandex. The "emotional spectrum" might sound goofy as hell, but it's adding to a niche in DC that's pretty lacking.
As I put down my copy of "Detective Comics" last week, i coulnd't help but reflect on how it suffered from existing in a fictional universe that lacked cosmic personifications of certain concepts.
Why red? Wouldn't it make more sense to introduce pink, the color of Star Sapphire?
Maybe a pink eagle?
G. Boney
10-13-2007, 05:10 PM
Why red? Wouldn't it make more sense to introduce pink, the color of Star Sapphire?
Maybe a pink eagle?
He seems to be following the ROY G BIV thing so pink wouldn't work.
CYOTI
10-13-2007, 05:19 PM
the Lords of Order and Chaos, which they also manage to super-muck by constantly tying them down into spandex.
Might be because the lords of chaos and order were introduced first in Dr. Fate.
Well, Destiny had been a character since the House of... days, and his role was to guard the Book of Fate, so him showing up in Brave and the Bold just for that purpose wasn't off; but it's Daniel showing up here or there in JSA or JLA that bothers me. Then Gaiman shouldn't have tied so much of Daniel or Dream's story with the JSA such as connecting Wesley Dodds and Morpheus or having the parents of Daniel be Hector Hall and Lyta.
CYOTI
10-13-2007, 05:21 PM
The relationship between DC and Vertigo these days is so very strange. We've seen Destiny in Waid's first arc of Brave & The Bold and Dream had a small cameo in JSA during that Infinite Crisis crossover. I'm blanking on any other relatively recent appearances of "Vertigo" characters in the DCU. You might be thinking of Swamp Thing.
Jack Zodiac
10-13-2007, 06:27 PM
As I put down my copy of "Detective Comics" last week, i coulnd't help but reflect on how it suffered from existing in a fictional universe that lacked cosmic personifications of certain concepts.
Did you ever see the point, or do you just not give a !@#$?
Might be because the lords of chaos and order were introduced first in Dr. Fate.
Eternity was introduced in Strange Tales starring Dr. Strange, who's as typical a superhero as Dr. Fate. And Infinity was introduced in Quasar, a much more typical superhero comic that handled its cosmic proportions very well.
Then Gaiman shouldn't have tied so much of Daniel or Dream's story with the JSA such as connecting Wesley Dodds and Morpheus or having the parents of Daniel be Hector Hall and Lyta.
Yes, it's Gaiman's fault that Johns overplayed the concepts he used so much better originally. It's Gaiman's fault Johns further masturbated with continuity by dragging back characters who'd gotten their grand exit from the universe sorted out cleverly already.
CYOTI
10-13-2007, 06:48 PM
Yes, it's Gaiman's fault that Johns overplayed the concepts he used so much better originally. It's Gaiman's fault Johns further masturbated with continuity by dragging back characters who'd gotten their grand exit from the universe sorted out cleverly already. Except being killed off gratuitously by Dream of the Endless or going off half mad does not fit the definition of a "grand exit". In fact Gaiman's treatment of both characters was rather crappy/
StoneGold
10-14-2007, 01:29 AM
Hmmm... interesting question.
Maybe it's because some people just weren't a fan of the Paralax retcon. Or maybe there's a "Rainbow Bright" aspect to it that isn't coming off very well.
I think it's as much Johns didn't name them right. I think he first called Parallax a demonic entity, which led to the whole yellow fear monster thing. If he had set up Parallax as more of a universal abstract, not just a demon, but a fundamental force of the universe, like Master Order and Lord Chaos, he might have gotten away with it.
QuietRiver
10-14-2007, 04:20 AM
I think it's as much Johns didn't name them right. I think he first called Parallax a demonic entity, which led to the whole yellow fear monster thing. If he had set up Parallax as more of a universal abstract, not just a demon, but a fundamental force of the universe, like Master Order and Lord Chaos, he might have gotten away with it.
Isn't Parallax a fundamental force of a universal abstract? Its supposed to the embodiment of fear right? I thought thats what the deal was with these "spectrum-avatar" thingies.
dreyga2000
10-14-2007, 10:27 AM
Parallax the Bug is in there slugging. The Guardians are all concerned and in the fight in part.
What does Ion actually do? Just sit in his tank and eat fish?
I'm confused about him.
To answer your question he possesses a Green Lantern and Gives them a huge power boost that can't be matched by any regular GL... And allows them to have GL Power without a Ring...
From what I understand... However I don't know how that effects the power given to Kyle by Jade
StoneGold
10-14-2007, 01:05 PM
Isn't Parallax a fundamental force of a universal abstract? Its supposed to the embodiment of fear right? I thought thats what the deal was with these "spectrum-avatar" thingies.
He is, but he was initially set up more as a "fear demon." Which begat the whole yellow fear monster bit. My theory is that Johns used the wrong word in "demon." That if he had stayed away from monster-ish terms, he could have pulled it off better.
To answer your question he possesses a Green Lantern and Gives them a huge power boost that can't be matched by any regular GL... And allows them to have GL Power without a Ring...
From what I understand... However I don't know how that effects the power given to Kyle by Jade
Hmmm... I forgot about that. I wonder if the Star Heart is somehow linked to Ion , and Kyle lost that when he lost Ion. In theory, he shouldn't even need a ring if he's still got that.
GeorgeG
10-14-2007, 06:55 PM
The thing I don't get, over at Marvel, people don't seem to have a problem with universal conceptuals like Eternity, Death, Order, Chaos, etc. But they introduce them in DC, and people go all ape-poopy.
Because they are in the form of a cockroach & a whale. What form do they take at Marvel? I know death is a skull-faced woman, but that's it.
GeorgeG
10-14-2007, 06:56 PM
Parallax the Bug is in there slugging. The Guardians are all concerned and in the fight in part.
What does Ion actually do? Just sit in his tank and eat fish?
I'm confused about him.
I'd imagine he could swat parallax with his tail or something.
IMO two concepts gone terribly wrong by the hand of Geoff Johns.
QuietRiver
10-14-2007, 09:09 PM
He is, but he was initially set up more as a "fear demon." Which begat the whole yellow fear monster bit. My theory is that Johns used the wrong word in "demon." That if he had stayed away from monster-ish terms, he could have pulled it off better.
Ah, gotcha.
Carter Hall
10-14-2007, 11:59 PM
I'd imagine he could swat parallax with his tail or something.
IMO two concepts gone terribly wrong by the hand of Geoff Johns.
Eh, I really don't have a problem with these concepts and think that they fit in just fine. I don't understand this whole thread, really.
StoneGold
10-15-2007, 12:01 AM
Because they are in the form of a cockroach & a whale. What form do they take at Marvel? I know death is a skull-faced woman, but that's it.
They are generally more anthropomorphic. But that's not necessarily a good thing. For one thing, why should primal forces of the universe that predate humanity by millenia look like us? For another, this is Master Hate.
http://www.marvel.com/universe3zx/images/2/24/Mstrhte.jpg
StoneGold
10-15-2007, 12:02 AM
Eh, I really don't have a problem with these concepts and think that they fit in just fine. I don't understand this whole thread, really.
I think Black Atom nailed it in #6.
They are generally more anthropomorphic. But that's not necessarily a good thing. For one thing, why should primal forces of the universe that predate humanity by millenia look like us? For another, this is Master Hate.
http://www.marvel.com/universe3zx/images/2/24/Mstrhte.jpg
I think the idea is that concepts don't actually have a physical form, so on the rare instances they are seen, they appear in forms people can comprehend.
If DC is using the same rationale (and I don't know that they are), perhaps Parallaz and Ion aren't really a bug and a whale either.
Paul Newell
10-15-2007, 07:30 AM
For another, this is Master Hate.
http://www.marvel.com/universe3zx/images/2/24/Mstrhte.jpg
If I had to wear that costume, I'd be pretty pissed too.
StoneGold
10-15-2007, 12:28 PM
If I had to wear that costume, I'd be pretty pissed too.
Except that isn't a costume. That's a visual manifestation of the concept of hate as a sentient cosmic being. Simply put, Hate has a spiked codpiece.
I think the idea is that concepts don't actually have a physical form, so on the rare instances they are seen, they appear in forms people can comprehend.
If DC is using the same rationale (and I don't know that they are), perhaps Parallaz and Ion aren't really a bug and a whale either.
Everybody knows whales = willpower.
or something...
Jamie
10-15-2007, 02:54 PM
The relationship between DC and Vertigo these days is so very strange. We've seen Destiny in Waid's first arc of Brave & The Bold and Dream had a small cameo in JSA during that Infinite Crisis crossover. I'm blanking on any other relatively recent appearances of "Vertigo" characters in the DCU.
Kid Eternity as the cosmic doorstop.
BoosterBronze
10-15-2007, 03:03 PM
For what its worth, i think Parralax is pretty darn cool. Especially when Von Scriver draws him.
Jamie
10-15-2007, 03:04 PM
Except that isn't a costume. That's a visual manifestation of the concept of hate as a sentient cosmic being. Simply put, Hate has a spiked codpiece.
Don't hate the, uh, Hate. It's the fault of the dimension of manifestations that he looks like that.
BoosterBronze
10-15-2007, 03:35 PM
Don't hate the, uh, Hate. It's the fault of the dimension of manifestations that he looks like that.
More a manifistation of "Hate-Ashbury"
CYOTI
10-15-2007, 03:52 PM
They are generally more anthropomorphic. But that's not necessarily a good thing. For one thing, why should primal forces of the universe that predate humanity by millenia look like us? For another, this is Master Hate.
http://www.marvel.com/universe3zx/images/2/24/Mstrhte.jpg So where is Mistress Apathy?
Jack Zodiac
10-15-2007, 05:35 PM
Kid Eternity as the cosmic doorstop.
Oh, yeah, totally forgot that one. Again, by Johns.
Didn't John's also kill him off in JSA?
Paul Newell
10-15-2007, 11:09 PM
Except that isn't a costume. That's a visual manifestation of the concept of hate as a sentient cosmic being. Simply put, Hate has a spiked codpiece.
With the spikes on the inside. That's why he hates everybody.
G. Wayne
10-16-2007, 04:27 PM
... Or maybe there's a "Rainbow Bright" aspect to it that isn't coming off very well.
Something like that, yeah. Or Power Rangers anyway. As I understand they were alluding to Star Saphire types being powered by love or lust or something. And theres supposed to be hate powered red lanterns here sooner or later too, right?
DMike
10-16-2007, 05:58 PM
I think the idea is that concepts don't actually have a physical form, so on the rare instances they are seen, they appear in forms people can comprehend.
If DC is using the same rationale (and I don't know that they are), perhaps Parallaz and Ion aren't really a bug and a whale either.
DC's already been using that rationale since at least the time of the Endless (or at the very least Morpheus).
Didn't John's also kill him off in JSA?
Kid Eternity got killed off in the first JSA story of that volume by Goyer & Robinson. Johns didn't take over in Robinson's spot until the next story (I believe it was the team fighting Black Adam for the first time when he was all crazy from that tumor).
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