Does Lady Shiva deserve a mini or limited series?

[HulkSmash666]

Richard Dragon got a 12 part series. Why not Shiva?

I would definietly buy a Shiva mini or limited series. A 4 or 6 part series could be awesome, but it's pretty short so it would have to be an action packed story.

A 12 part series would be even better. It could let us see Shiva in a whole other light. We could delve into her background/history. Establish a supporting cast (BoP, Richard Dragon, Bronze Tiger, and maybe even Batman), provide her with a decent threat/challenge, and test her as she's never been tested before.

If I was to write it, I'd make it so Shiva has to explore her past relationships with David Cain, the League of Assassins, and Ra's al Ghul.

Also, the Monkey Cult has issued a world wide challenge to any and all martial artists- De-throne Shiva as the #1 fighter on the planet. This would provide an oppurtunity to create some new, kick arse martial artists to roam the DCU, although some would definitly have to be throw away characters, as Shiva would have to kill some of them.

It could also showcase Shiva against some familiar fighters of the DCU.

Maybe a PROPER Shiva/Batman fight? Definity a David Cain/Shiva fight. And Shiva vs Ra's and his organisation would be fuckin sweet too.

I would love to see Shiva take down Ra's entire base, ala Bane of the Demon where Bane tore through Ra's ranks, even killing an Ubu.

Hell, why not have Shiva completley destroy Bane, for the simple fact she wanted to fight the man who "Broke the Bat".
Considering Shiva was the one who gave Batman his skills back after Bane broke his back, I'd like to think Shiva would become curious to see this man for herself to see if he could provide her with a challenge.

It fits with her personality.

In any case, Shiva has a LOT of potential to be an awesome read for martial arts and all-round action fans.

SO LONG AS CHUCK DIXON DOESN'T WRITE IT!!!!

Chuck screwed up Richard Dragon so badly they had to RETCON THE WHOLE FUCKIN STORY!!

So, in closing, DC needs to get their shit together and get Lady Shiva her own title.

Fanboys will go apeshit for it.

I would go apeshit for it.

Not necessarily the story I mentioned, by just a Shiva story with some friggin kick-arse action.

What do you guys think? Would you prefer 4, 6, or a 12 part series, or even an ongoing?

[COMIC GEEK]

I like shiva as a character, thinks shes pretty damn cool. But I don't see myself buying a mini soley on this character.

Not to knock fans that do, I just wouldnt spend the money on it.

sorry.

[Citizen V]

No.I don't think the idea would work.

[HulkSmash666]

Why not?

To me, it would've made more sense doing a Shiva limited series rather than the whole Richard Dragon debacle.

Even now, she's got enough of a history to flesh out a pretty decent story, IMO.

[Froggy]

that'd be awesome IMO

[HulkSmash666]

Well, that's two.

My hope is to gather enough interest in this, then start an all out assault on the DC Boards, and even start harassing writers webpages.

I want this to happen. It could possibly be the coolest kung-fu action, femme fatale storyline to hit the shelves since the early Batgirl.

And yes, I'm aware Dixon was the guy who wrote it, and knowing my luck, DC would give the job to Dixon, and the whole friggin story would be non-canon and retconned later.

Dixon wrote the best Batgirl I"ve read, and generally, his martial arts stories aren't too bad, but the whole re-do of Richard Dragon was just fucked.

The story itself, about a kung-fu fighter with the name Richard Dragon, who looks at least 20 years younger than the PROPER version, who was trained by Bronze Tiger, but in turn Dragon had trained dozens of DC's best fighters, despite looking younger and acting younger than some of the people he's trained.

It was basically a complete waste of friggin time, considering people were invested in the story for 12 months, thinking that this was continuity, and that Dragon may now start interacting more regularly, and all they ended up with was a year long story that had no meaning whatsoever.

Get a competant writer, get Damion Scott to do the art, and let Shiva loose on the DCU.

[HulkSmash666]

One cool aspect of Shiva is her self-destructive attitude.

She's got a death wish. That's something that could be explored in detail.

What does she really thing of the situation?

Why does she want to die?

How many more masters are left to fight? What happens when there's nothing more for her to learn? What becomes of her obsession then? Does she take up combat with meta-humans in order to get a challenge?

Does she have ANYONE that cares about her? Who could possibly sway her from her course in order to save her from her suicidal mission? Richard Dragon? David Cain? Batgirl? Black Canary?................Batman?


Her goals in life consist of becoming the greatest martial artist on the planet and perfecting every style there is (something she has already achieved), finding an heir to her legacy, and to die in combat against a superior martial artist.

How about some romance for Shiva? Surely she's got to get laid like any other chick?
I bet she's be a top root, with all the Kama Sutra-type-tantric-ninja sex she would have picked up on her travels.

And which bloke would have the balls to wrestle in the sack with Shiva, knowing who she is and that she could kill them in a heartbeat?

The coolest parts of the story though would be the action of course.

Shiva against the DCU's best martial artists.

Who would she hunt?

Obviously David Cain. I think Shiva should beat Cain to death for what he did to Shiva's sister.

A run in with some superheros, street levelers of course, like the BoP trying to locate her, and ultimatly getting their arses kicked, Green Arrow, and even Wildcat.

Shiva hunting Bane, as I mentioned before, would be friggin awesome. She wants to beat the man who "broke the Bat". This in turn draws Batman's attention.

Batman vs Shiva in Gotham City. Make it the ultimate fight between these two. I'd like to see Batman lose his utility belt, ala his battle with Karate Kid, and have to resort only on hand to hand.
Up to DC big wigs to decide that fight. I'd like to see her beat Batman outright, then escape from him and his Bat-team, leavine Batman pretty banged up, but not dead, as Shiva saw no honor killing him as she has respect for Batman.

Shiva vs Ra's al Ghul and his entire organisation would be friggin awesome battle. Shiva would massacre Ra's guards and soldiers, Leopard blow Ubu, and then to tear into Ra's in a swordfight. She runs him through and leaves him for dead. Ra's, of course, is found by a lackey and chucked in the Lazarus Pit.

Shiva giving Bronze Tiger a decent fight would be cool. Even one-shoting him would be a badass statement, or a WTF moment. This is where Dragon comes into the story, out of concern for Shiva, maybe even starting a romance, or simply making a booty call.

Plus, for a final test, she takes on 12 of the deadliest fighters on Earth. Here is where you'd have 5 or 6 disposable fighters, plus 4 or 5 familiar faces, and an all new guy who gives Shiva a run for her money. She wins the big brawl, after an exhausting battle that takes everything she's got.

(Some possible familiars- Hellhound, Constantine Drakon, Shado, Zeiss, Catman)

In the end, Shiva realises that she's tried pretty hard to find an honorable death, and can't seem to find it. So she will continue her hunt for her death at a worthy warriors hands, confident in the fact that someday she will find what she seeks.

[DonC]

I like shiva as a character, thinks shes pretty damn cool. But I don't see myself buying a mini soley on this character.

Not to knock fans that do, I just wouldnt spend the money on it.

sorry.


What he said. Also, I like Shiva better when she's the villain of the story. Any book starring her would have her be the hero.

[HulkSmash666]

I have another idea.

How about a revenge story on Prometheus. He did recently own her arse in front of the BoP, which led to her leaving the team, perhaps in humiliation at how easily she was defeated.

She realises that Prom has 30 of the world's best martial arts masters on his discs. So she needs access to those discs, to see who's on them and fond out where they are.

One person can give her what she wants, and that's Oracle. She informs Shiva that he beat Batman, so she shouldn't feel too badly about losing to him. Shiva obviously does not agree.

Anyway, thanks to Oracle, Shiva knows exactly where to find the 30.

Her goal- to fight them, learn from them, if she can, and then defeat them. All in preperation for her rematch with Prometheus.

Once she gets through them all, she feels she's ready to take Prom head on. She hunts him down to Gotham City, where Batman could pay her a visit. They could either duke it out, or Batman could help her track him down, or both.

Batman offers assistance, which she steadfastly refuses. Batman offers her the tech means to fry Prom's circuitry, which she refuses.

She wants Prometheus in prime condition. She's going to beat Prometheus to death with the skills of 30 of the world's best fighters.

Of course, battle ensues, Shiva kicks Prom's arse, and just before she kills him, Batman shows up and stops her.

She vows revenge against Batman for denying her her kill, and escapes into the night.

On the upside for her though, she has become deadlier than ever before.

[rwe1138]

If Gail writes it, I'll buy it. I loved her handle on Shiva in BoP.

[titanfan]

She's certainly popular enough to at least warrant a mini. I think that she's been written so inconsistently over the years that having a definitive mini-series for her would be helpful. You can throw in token guest appearances by a Bat family member if you needed sales.

[carabas]

I'd buy it in an instant (provided it wasn't written by Bedard or Dixon or the like).

I think the best approach is to keep her away from the heroes. Shiva kills. She generally isn't a mercyful character, and having contrived explanations as to why she spared Green Arrow, Catwoman, or whomever, will get tedious.

Just set her loose on the criminal element. Maybe do it like Grell did with Green Arrow, and keep most established DCU characters far away from the book.

Punisher MAX can also be taken as a template for a series like this: enigmatic, generally rather silent anti-hero (or insane, blood-thirsty maniac, YMMV) with not a whole lot of empathy or sympatthy from the reader, happens to innocent (more or less) peoples' lives, and winds up killing scores of people who are far worse than he/she is.

Isn't Ennis quitting Punisher in the near future? We know from Hitman he can do Hong Kong movie type action stuff and drama.

[HulkSmash666]

A Max-style Shiva comics WOULD be pretty cool. It would allow the writer the make Shiva that much more deadly.

Like a force of nature. Or the human equivelent of a Black Widow spider (we call them Redback Spiders down here) where she coud come off as part serial killer, part femme fatale.

The serial killer who kills martial arts masters, using her own martial arts skills.

Any dude lucky enough to get into bed with her ends up dead in the morning.

No one can know her. She kills all those who get near to her.

What do you think? It's a whole other direction in terms of story, and there would be no run-ins with other DC characters.

Problem there is you need something to let readers know that this IS the DC Lady Shiva, and not some completely different person with the name Lady Shiva.

Does that make sense?

The story needs to be set in the current DC continuity, with recognisable elements, such as locations or supporting cast. Having everything all new and with nothing familiar will make it seem like it's just some ninja chick with the name Shiva.

One of the biggest draws to Shiva for me is how she interacts with the other denizens of the DCU and how they react to her, or hold her in reverance as a near unstoppable force of nature.

[the_hood]

Max-style would be neat.
shiva's a brutal person and if ever she's to be given a mini, it should be aimed for mature readers.

[Johnny_Luck]

Also, the Monkey Cult has issued a world wide challenge to any and all martial artists- De-throne Shiva as the #1 fighter on the planet. This would provide an oppurtunity to create some new, kick arse martial artists to roam the DCU, although some would definitly have to be throw away characters, as Shiva would have to kill some of them.


Umm as you mention Prom knocked her on her butt and made her bleed in less than a minute, if he can do that and Canary can take her to a draw 90 percent of the dc based fighters could take her. Shiva as a character/fighter is a joke in that shes written super human when they want her to, but then in instances where its in reality she gets her butt handed to her by people like prom. Shes good fighter, but overhyped and ovrrated with the way some writers and fans make her out to be.



A run in with some superheros, street levelers of course, like the BoP trying to locate her, and ultimatly getting their arses kicked, Green Arrow, and even Wildcat.


Out of Huntress, Wildcat and GA the only one Shiva could straight out beat would be GA. Huntress when written at her best the way we know she is capable of fighting could Bring the same draw canary brought to shiva at the minuim. Ted is just older, smarter and has been fighting longer, so while his style is limited he could hold his own. Plus he a boxer known to hold on even if hes getting beat for a little bit of time.

It be a joke and completey ridculous to have her beat all those people.





Her goal- to fight them, learn from them, if she can, and then defeat them. All in preperation for her rematch with Prometheus.

Once she gets through them all, she feels she's ready to take Prom head on. She hunts him down to Gotham City, where Batman could pay her a visit. They could either duke it out, or Batman could help her track him down, or both.

Batman offers assistance, which she steadfastly refuses. Batman offers her the tech means to fry Prom's circuitry, which she refuses.

She wants Prometheus in prime condition. She's going to beat Prometheus to death with the skills of 30 of the world's best fighters.

Of course, battle ensues, Shiva kicks Prom's arse, and just before she kills him, Batman shows up and stops her.

She vows revenge against Batman for denying her her kill, and escapes into the night.

On the upside for her though, she has become deadlier than ever before.

1. Shiva wouldn't make it past the first 1/8th of the top 30 let alone all 30.
2. Batman would never offer help to get revenge on someone in that way.
3. If the writer was comptetant and smart and writing shiva as shiva, with her ablities Prom wouldn't even come close to getting his butt kicked. Though in a rematch I see them doing it just to make some people feel good about Shiva.

In turn I like Shiva okay, but as a Villain and not in any of the situations you are describing. I probably wouldn't pick one up either way.

Now a mini that had Cheshire, Talia(LOA and Batman free) or Cheetah would be definately worth picking up.

[carabas]

Umm as you mention Prom knocked her on her butt and made her bleed in less than a minute,
Prometheus is not a trained martial artist. He's a genius who designed a gadget that allows him to throw whatever actual martial artists do, back at them with intrest. Prometheus can't be vanquished by skill, only by superior cheating.

if Canary can take her to a drawEh, what? She can do what now?
shes written super human when they want her to, but then in instances where its in reality she gets her butt handed to her by people like prom.Prometheus. Who took out the entire JLA. By his lonesome. Including superman and Batman.

Huntress when written at her best the way we know she is capable of fighting could Bring the same draw canary brought to shiva at the minuim.One: Huntress is kinda outclassed by Dinah. Two: Dinah did not fight Shiva to a draw.

[Jack Zodiac]

No. Market glut. Far more worthwhile, profitable characters who deserve a chance. Insert standard "why bother?" reply here.

[zhivago]

Lady Shiva to get a chance in solo book of any kind first must pass the ancient traditional DC initiation process: she must kick Nightwing's ass in his own book. She can do it in other bat books, but then she would have to kick and humiliate him as well.

[Johnny_Luck]

Prometheus is not a trained martial artist. He's a genius who designed a gadget that allows him to throw whatever actual martial artists do, back at them with intrest. Prometheus can't be vanquished by skill, only by superior cheating.

Eh, what? She can do what now?
Prometheus. Who took out the entire JLA. By his lonesome. Including superman and Batman.

One: Huntress is kinda outclassed by Dinah. Two: Dinah did not fight Shiva to a draw.

Have you read any of Gail's birds run at all? cause it doesn't look like you have.

and if Huntress is outclassed by dinah then I would like to know why Shiva was drawn by canary(go back and re-read there fights in birds) and shiva lost fast to a man huntress went to a draw twice against(a man whom as you said took on the entire JLA) how you get the idea the if written the best she is capable of and not just having hard trouble against people for stories Huntress would have a hard time at least Drawing Dinah.

[carabas]

Issue numbers, please.
I have been looking through my copies, looking for this Canary.Shiva draw, but can't seem to find it.

As for Huntress fighting Prometheus to a draw, landing one, single punch falls a bit short of a draw. Plus, Prometheus was cocky, having just KOed one of the best there is. He underestimated Huntress because she didn't even register on his radar, and she got in a suckerpunch. And if the fight had continued, he would have slaughtered the lot of them without even trying.

Have you actually read any of Gail's Birds Of Prey run at all?

It's like I said in my first post: when using these ultra-deadly assassin types, you just can't put them into contact with characters that are'nt expendable very often. Either they lose due to plot-stupidity, or the fight is ended prematurely in some contrived way.

[titanfan]

Lady Shiva to get a chance in solo book of any kind first must pass the ancient traditional DC initiation process: she must kick Nightwing's ass in his own book. She can do it in other bat books, but then she would have to kick and humiliate him as well.

I seem to recall Shiva kicking Nightwing's ass at least in one occassion, the fight didn't even last a page. I am surprised she never showed up to humiliate Nightwing in his own book just like everyone else though.