Byrned Carrots: JOHN BYRNE Doesn't Dig CAPTAIN CARROT Or The ZOO CREW!

[Scott Shaw!]

Over at Byrne Robotics, cartoonist John Byrne expresses a decidedly dissatisfied opinion about the execution of CAPTAIN CARROT AND HIS AMAZING ZOO CREW! and CAPTAIN CARROT AND THE FINAL ARK!
But apparently, he DOES respect my pal Jim Engle (sp.). (Actually, it's "Engel".)

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21255&PN=1&totPosts=52

John's absolutely right; there are tons of inconsistencies in almost all "funny animal" or "anthropomorphic" comics, even the best ones by guys like Carl Barks, Sheldon Mayer and Walt Kelly. I constantly wrestle with these sort of creative problems when I'm writing or drawing funny animal comics. These concerns are invariably outweighed by my Primary Directive: "Make It Funny".

But I try to do my best, without making things overcomplicated. "Bongo" Bill Morrison and I have both agonized over such issues while co-concocting CAPTAIN CARROT AND THE FINAL ARK (the first of which is due out this Wednesday.)

Actually, I'd LOVE to see John Byrne write and draw his own funny animal comic that adhered to the theories he describes in his criticism of CAPTAIN CARROT...wouldn't you? Wouldn't anyone?

Please stay tuned for my in-depth analysis of John Byrne's issues of Charlton's WHEELIE AND THE CHOPPER BUNCH, adapting the Hanna-Barbera cartoon series that starred anthropomorphic cars and motorcycles!

Aloha,

Scott!

[Jack Zodiac]

CAPTAIN CARROT was a virtual textbook of How to Get It Wrong. The
internal logic was constantly skewed. What would prompt anyone to coin
the term "pig iron" in a world inhabited, at least in part, by intelligent
pigs? Wouldn't that be an awful "racist" slur? What would an "alley cat" be
in a world with intelligent cats? And, seriously, can we imagine a "real"
superhero called, say, Captain Hamburger?

Because, obviously, logic is the driving force behind all great comic books and ideas, which is why Byrne's super-fantastic-totally-awesome-cool, and logical!, Doom Patrol relaunch was so intelligent and successful and lasted so long, with the girl who can't quite control minds, really, but almost, and the four-armed gorilla. Yes, obviously.

The book had all the earmarks of a "parody" -- but, of course, it was a
"parallel universe", not a parody!! -- done by civilians. By people
who do not "get" the language of superhero comics. Appalling, when you
consider who actually created it.

If every writer is gonna start taking tips from Byrne about the "language of superhero comics," I'm never reading another superhero comic for the rest of my life.

This one was good, though.


Captain Carrot is to funny animal comics what Rush is to rock music.

The epitome of total !@#$ing awesomeness? You'd better believe it!

[cactusmaac]

Who gives a rat's ass what John Byrne thinks?

[Jack Zodiac]

John Byrne. And his Byrnebots. And anyone who likes making fun of John Byrne.

[escapegoat]

Wow...just wow!

I guess Byrne's gotta a lot of time to do real deep thinking while he's working on ....wait.....what title is he currently working on again? :p

[Jack Zodiac]

Hopefully he's poundin' out a totally logical, coherent, but funny, entertaining parody super-animal story.

[escapegoat]

Maybe I should commission him to do a re-creation of the cover for Captain Carrot and his Amazing Zoo Crew #1....

[rick]

Geez, John just gets grumpier and grumpier all the time.

The good Captain has always been a funny book, with great characters and lots of good natured humor.

What more do we need?

It's just a bit silly all on it's own to get worked up about funny animals not sticking to their "internal logic". :rolleyes:

[Jack Zodiac]

Maybe I should commission him to do a re-creation of the cover for Captain Carrot and his Amazing Zoo Crew #1....

And tell him, for a couple thousand extra, you want Pig Iron in every single panel.

[Froggy]

Geez, John just gets grumpier and grumpier all the time.

The good Captain has always been a funny book, with great characters and lots of good natured humor.

What more do we need?

It's just a bit silly all on it's own to get worked up about funny animals not sticking to their "internal logic". :rolleyes:
seriously


he needs to take a chill pill, or take a nap please

[Jack Zodiac]

Probably a nap. When he wrote that, he was likely tuckered from a long day of yelling at kids to get off his lawn, and then telling them they don't know good comics. "Superman! I made him what he is today. And the X-Men... *yawn* ...Claremont an' me... geniuses... zzzzzz..."

[J. Robb]

John Byrne has to keep saying stupid things, it's the only way he still gets any attention.

[Froggy]

Probably a nap. When he wrote that, he was likely tuckered from a long day of yelling at kids to get off his lawn, and then telling them they don't know good comics. "Superman! I made him what he is today. And the X-Men... *yawn* ...Claremont an' me... geniuses... zzzzzz..."

lmao i can see that now. stillt eh whole "It doesnt amek sense" in comics argument can only go SO far......when you GOT to realize i'ts a parody comic!

[ScottDMSimmons]

At this, I chuckle, and move on.

Scott, looking forward to snagging a copy at the store soon.
Always best wishes for you.

Scott

[DonC]

"Many years ago, now, I had a somewhat scholarly discussion with Jim
Engle on the subject of funny-animal comics."

See, that's where he went wrong. He was looking for logic in something whose very purpose was to be illogical.

[CMBMOOL]

Wow...just wow!

I guess Byrne's gotta a lot of time to do real deep thinking while he's working on ....wait.....what title is he currently working on again? :p

Oh snap. :p

But seriously, I can't believe that the Legendary John Byrne doens't like Captain Carrot and the Zoo Crew and this is the same man who rewrote Superman in the Post-COIE world. :(. :eek:

[CBikle]

Really, what does John Byrne like ?

I liked his early work, but everything since his run on Namor has been boring garbage.

It seems like he has "rules" on everything and how something will or won't work whether it's done by "the rules".

I'm not really a Captain Carrot fan, but there are enough people that are that I don't think a series is a bad risk.

Captain Carrot has potential; that awful Doom Patrol that Byrne reintroduced, does not.

[Heraclevs]

Hmmm... Lab Rats, Spider-Man: Year One, Hulk, Doom Patrol... yeah, I can see why someone should take Byrne's criticism seriously. :rolleyes:


- Romans 9

[Michael P]

Hey, look! What's that, in a constant geosynchronous orbit over John Byrne's house?

Why, it's the point!

[Babylon23]

Clearly, this is just a case of Byrne missing the point entirely. Why look for realism and logic in a humorous parody book about talking animals?

[Jack Zodiac]

Hey, look! What's that, in a constant geosynchronous orbit over John Byrne's house?

Why, it's the point!

Michael, in order for the point to remain in orbit over Byrne's house, it'd have to be tangible. Your joke is illogical, and as such I refuse to enjoy how hilarious it obviously is!

[Sean Whitmore]

"Many years ago, now, I had a somewhat scholarly discussion with Jim Engle on the subject of funny-animal comics."

The next time somebody asks why people don't respect that forum, I'm gonna pull out this quote and say, "Because the very next post wasn't 'The fuck for?'"


SEAN

[Kid Kyoto]

The epitome of total !@#$ing awesomeness? You'd better believe it!

As a fan of Rush and Capt Carrot I completely missed the point of that post.

Wow. Byrne Robotics really is a sad, sad forum.

[The Beast Of Yucca Flats]

Michael, in order for the point to remain in orbit over Byrne's house, it'd have to be tangible. Your joke is illogical, and as such I refuse to enjoy how hilarious it obviously is!

Me? I'm-- respectfully, of course-- reposting it on the thread on this they've got going in DC's official forum.

[david r]

John Byrne doesn't like Captain Carrot? And he calls himself a Republican!

[Thnikkaman]

John Byrne can go pleasure himself with an inanimate object that would cause discomfort.

[david r]

This is the same man who made stupid faces to Marv Wolfman in a courtroom, while Marv was trying to gain the rights to Blade from Marvel Comics. Marv Wolfman said when he was up on the stand testifying, Byrne was continually making stupid and foolish faces at him to shake him.

He also said recently if he'd had a gun in his home over the last few years, he twice would have shot himself.

[brett tolino]

Funny animal comics loaded with inconsistencies?

Well, then they should feel right at home at good old DC Comics! Where Legends, er, Characters die and Inconsistencies Live!

(along with 52 new Alternate Infinite Earths, that's more inconsistencies that you can shake a scorecard at!)

:p

Still, I was there when Captain Carrot was born, staring through the nursery window of New Teen Titans # 16 way back in the day with big smiles of joy. Dozens upon dozens of others shared the enthusiasm and when Captain Carrot #1 first hit, I remember my comic shop owner telling his customers that funny animal comic books were making a big comeback and everybody got on board for the fun. I even recall one guy liked the book so much, he bought 500 copies of the #1 just to pass out to kids.

Those were indeed the days and I'm glad Captain Carrot's back.

Still, anyone pointing out inconsistencies in funny animal comics books should always remember, they're just comics, they're supposed to be fun. We all know the #1 inconsistency is having funny animals 'talking' in the first place. What we're supposed to do is suspend all sense of reason and logic and just go along for the ride.

I believe that's what people like Walt Disney and George Orwell thought when they began spinning great tales of wonder inside their worlds of talking animals.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Byrne stopped being funny to laugh at a year or so ago. Now it's just increasingly sad. He's become the crazy grumpy bitter old man of the comics industry yelling at people from his porch while the memory of all his great work is slowly eclipsed by his mean-spirited rants.

[Sean Walsh]

The fact that Mr. Byrne is (apparently) arguing logic with a book where the main character is a superhero rabbit proves too many things about him -- too much time on his hands, grumpy, possibly insane, etc.

I can only imagine what his thoughts are regarding Looney Tunes cartoons. "I seriously doubt it was either rabbit season or duck season when that argument was made! And don't get me started on the quick and easy reversal of opinions! 'Played for comedy' my %#$, that would never happen in real life!"

[pariah-1972]

The fact that Mr. Byrne is (apparently) arguing logic with a book where the main character is a superhero rabbit proves too many things about him -- too much time on his hands, grumpy, possibly insane, etc.

I can only imagine what his thoughts are regarding Looney Tunes cartoons. "I seriously doubt it was either rabbit season or duck season when that argument was made! And don't get me started on the quick and easy reversal of opinions! 'Played for comedy' my %#$, that would never happen in real life!"Obviously you didn't read all his posts on the subject cause he does bring up looney tunes and says that somehow they never broke any "rules"
in their universe.
or something like that.

[dupersuper]

Remember The Phoenix Saga? The Superman reboot? I miss Good-Comic-Making Byrne. All we get now are Doom Patrol, Genesis, and tonnes of snarky comments and rumours off a$$holiness...

[Omac70]

He's become the crazy grumpy bitter old man of the comics industry yelling at people from his porch while the memory of all his great work is slowly eclipsed by his mean-spirited rants.
This is the worst part of all of this.

No-one can get really offended at what he says anymore - the "complaints" have become increasingly ridiculous and we're just used to him spitting his venom at anything, seemingly for the sake of it.

But it's now getting to the stage where, when the name "John Byrne" crops up, we're all thinking of his insane rants - instead of the great stuff he was responsible for. And it'll always be great stuff, but it's not at the forefront of many of our minds anymore.

[Froggy]

This is the same man who made stupid faces to Marv Wolfman in a courtroom, while Marv was trying to gain the rights to Blade from Marvel Comics. Marv Wolfman said when he was up on the stand testifying, Byrne was continually making stupid and foolish faces at him to shake him.

He also said recently if he'd had a gun in his home over the last few years, he twice would have shot himself.

this part makes me laugh

the second part is just sad tho :(

[ScottDMSimmons]

Remember The Phoenix Saga? The Superman reboot? I miss Good-Comic-Making Byrne. All we get now are Doom Patrol, Genesis, and tonnes of snarky comments and rumours off a$$holiness...

I love Doom Patrol (characters and concept), and I liked how he drew it. That's about it.

Alot of his recent Superman and JLA work was really really good, but not published as he did it. Comparing the inks by Jerry Ordway to the pencils by Byrne, it's clear John Byrne grew as an artist for that story. Too bad the inking changed his faces and other parts. Some very beautiful detailed background. Batman and Wonder Woman looked awesome, and the vampire character of the "Tenth Circle" storyline actually looked evil, not flambouyant. I can try and find some links to those pencils later. Lost alot of impact in the villain's intensity I think.

I keep two pieces of original John Byrne art on my art studio wall. They are from two of my favorite projects he did... Next Men and Batman/Captain America. Great, great stuff.

Scott

[tk421atpost]

Three pages spent bashing a man for committing the unthinkable crime of not liking a book and posting his reasons for it on the internet... which, basically, is what most of us do on this site... we praise things we like and we gripe about things we don't. Is what he did in this case any different? Is it acceptable to flame him endlessly for not agreeing with our fickle tastes simply because he's an experienced comic creator? What's worse.... the old man on the porch yelling at the kids on his lawn or the people who mock him for doing it?

Don't agree with him? Cool. Want to discuss and debate his opinions? Great, in fact, that's what forums like these are for. Let's just be civil about it.

[Jack Zodiac]

I haven't seen anything uncivil about anything anyone's said about John Byrne. The harshest words I've seen applied to him about this are "relic" and "grumpy old man." No one's crying for his blood or attacking his person on anything but this basic, superficial level.

[Dusty.]

Who gives a rat's ass what John Byrne thinks?

Quite a few people do. Nobody stirs more conversation based on what they say than comic book writer/artist extraordinaire, John Byrne.

[pariah-1972]

I wonder if he was always like this and the internet just exacerbates it?

[Jack Zodiac]

No, he's really like this. At conventions, he stands in front of his booth with a water hose and tells the fans to keep back. And if they chuck a Frisbee over the table, it's gone forever.

[pariah-1972]

No, he's really like this. At conventions, he stands in front of his booth with a water hose and tells the fans to keep back. And if they chuck a Frisbee over the table, it's gone forever.Lol is this why he doesn't go to conventions anymore?

[Cthulhudrew]

I'm surprised Byrne doesn't have a radio show or podcast. His rants and the reactions they get totally bring to mind those of "shock jocks" like Tom Leykis who may or may not really believe what they say, but say it anyway for the express purpose of getting a reaction.

Really, I enjoy Byrne's work (at least his older stuff, haven't read/seen much of it since the Spider-Man Year One that I really didn't like), but his rants just boggle the mind.

[pariah-1972]

I'm starting to wonder if Byrne is doing this on purpose.
doesn't he make money the more "hits" he gets to his website?
and whenever he says anything controversial theres links to his site everywhere .
is he making money off being like this?

[Metamorpho]

Anthing that follows "John Byrne says.." should be taken with a grain(if not a block ) of salt

[gwor]

Y'know, I always thought Captain Carrot and his Amazing Zoo Crew was a fun, entertaining book back in the day (we certainly need more books like it these grim days).

Long Live the Captain!

[Captain Shady]

I get how the rules of the Captain Carrot universe don't mesh with the rules of the other universes in the multi-verse. I also get how Loony Tunes mesh with their own (and if solely self-contained Captain Carrot would do the same), but reconciling a Loony Tunes (or Carrot) universe as a sister or slightly altered duplicate of DC proper is a more than a stretch. That being said, so many outlandish and equally illogical "facts" or "physics" of the DC multi-verse (retcon punch anyone), seem to indicate anything could be possible.

To me crossover with Carrot should be noncontinuity one-shots because even the author himself suggests the rules of that universe are dependent only on what's funny not what's logical. However, a populace of talking, mating animals is really how much more a stretch than an Elongated man or a green latern, so if DC choses for them to be a part of the multiverse I guess I can live with it.

[CBikle]

Three pages spent bashing a man for committing the unthinkable crime of not liking a book and posting his reasons for it on the internet... which, basically, is what most of us do on this site... we praise things we like and we gripe about things we don't. Is what he did in this case any different? Is it acceptable to flame him endlessly for not agreeing with our fickle tastes simply because he's an experienced comic creator? What's worse.... the old man on the porch yelling at the kids on his lawn or the people who mock him for doing it?

Don't agree with him? Cool. Want to discuss and debate his opinions? Great, in fact, that's what forums like these are for. Let's just be civil about it.

1 If anyone posts something stupid on the internet, they risk getting made fun of. A serious dissertation of the right and wrong ways of writing funny animals books classifies as something stupid (but not as stupid as Byrne's comment that he didn't feel that Jessica Alba was right for the Fantastic Four movie because he felt that latino women with blonde hair, look like prostitutes.).

2 I think we've been pretty civil so far.

[pariah-1972]

Can someone answer me if hes making money off these rants by having people link to his website from other message boards?
please and thanks.

[Rattlehead]

1 A serious dissertation of the right and wrong ways of writing funny animals books classifies as something stupid (but not as stupid as Byrne's comment that he didn't feel that Jessica Alba was right for the Fantastic Four movie because he felt that latino women with blonde hair, look like prostitutes.).

Really? I always thought she wasn't right for the movies because she's a bad actress and doesn't get Sue at all. See, you can learn things from John Byrne rants, kids.

http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/5503/themoreyouknowis0.png

[Cthulhudrew]

Can someone answer me if hes making money off these rants by having people link to his website from other message boards?

Offhand I'd say no, as Byrne Robotics doesn't appear to be an ad serving site, but then I'm not expert on such things either.

[gorosaurus]

I can't find the article; I just get the JB main page, and when I try to register, it says I can't use an "anonymous" AOL email address. You have to log in to even do a search.

[pariah-1972]

I can't find the article; I just get the JB main page, and when I try to register, it says I can't use an "anonymous" AOL email address.Yeah he does that because he's had too many people use those types of e-mails to flood or spam or troll his board.

[gorosaurus]

Yeah he does that because he's had too many people use those types of e-mails to flood or spam or troll his board.

Thanks, Pariah - I just wanted to read the article though. Can someone post it here or is that against the rules?

[ultramandingo]

..........feh . who needs bryne . alan moore dug funny animals , check out Warren Strong . bryne isnt even talented enuff to sharpen moores pencils

[pariah-1972]

Thanks, Pariah - I just wanted to read the article though. Can someone post it here or is that against the rules?Someone on this or the other Capt Carrot thread posted the links thru google which you can still read.