Still don't get how Barry Allen is post crisis

[botch]

Ok even to this day I still don't get it, technically he died pre crisis, before the reload. So how is he remembered for dying valiantly if all the heroes don't remember the crisis? Wouldn't they not remember him dying? I don't get it. Explain to me point by point.

[Duy]

Supergirl was wiped out by the Crisis - the universe was remade so she never existed, so no one remembers her. Same with the Robin of Earth-2 and Helena Wayne and a few others.

Not the same with Barry. Everyone remembers him, and whatever convoluted memories they have of the first Crisis, they all know Barry died saving the universe.

[Super Buddies Forever]

There was a JLA mini-series a few years back that devoted an issue to the "Post-Crisis Crisis," or how the Crisis went down in the Post-Crisis, single universe continuity.

So yeah, Barry still happened to die in this Crisis. Of course, the real question now is, "Which Crisis do the heroes now remember? The Pre-Crisis Crisis, the Post-Crisis Crisis, or a New Earth version of the first Crisis?" Maybe all three?

[Paul Newell]

Also, as far as I remember, it was never mentioned that they didn't remember the Crisis itself, it was the Pre-Crisis multiverse they didn't remember.

[botch]

but Barry died pre crisis, it was only a few moments before post crisis but it was still technically pre crisis, so how do they remember him?

[Duy]

Because they do. He was not wiped out from history. Everyone remembers him.

Bruce Wayne remembered his parents, and they died pre-Crisis. Same with Krypton.

Only selected bits were wiped out, like the original Supergirl. Barry was not one of them.

[Sean Whitmore]

Because they do. He was not wiped out from history. Everyone remembers him.

Bruce Wayne remembered his parents, and they died pre-Crisis. Same with Krypton.

Only selected bits were wiped out, like the original Supergirl. Barry was not one of them.

That may have been the most concise, logical way of explaining the Crisis that I've ever read.


SEAN

[The Mirrorball Man]

Only selected bits were wiped out, like the original Supergirl. Barry was not one of them.
Actually - maybe I'm wrong here - but I think everything has been wiped out, and completely rewritten from the beginning. Barry Allen was included in the rewrite, while other characters were not.
In a way, in the current DC universe, Barry Allen was never really alive. He was just retroactively inserted into history after his death.

[Duy]

Yeah, that's exactly what I mean. Everything went through a revision.

Which, yes, means rewriting, editing, deleting, and keeping other parts the same.

[marshal99]

The heroes still remember a crisis , just that what they remember was something of a time/space crisis in qward , but not a multiverse crisis. You can actually see a post-crisis of COIE in Flash issue 150 , the Chain lightning storyline and the role of Barry Allen in the crisis which is still the same.

[The Mirrorball Man]

The heroes still remember a crisis , just that what they remember was something of a time/space crisis in qward , but not a multiverse crisis. You can actually see a post-crisis of COIE in Flash issue 150 , the Chain lightning storyline and the role of Barry Allen in the crisis which is still the same.

That's where it becomes tricky. There was a Crisis, there was a post-Crisis Crisis, there was a post-Zero Hour crisis, there was a post-Infinite Crisis Crisis, and there is now a post-52 Crisis. The question is: just WHAT do they remember NOW about the CRISIS?

[Alex L]

That's where it becomes tricky. There was a Crisis, there was a post-Crisis Crisis, there was a post-Zero Hour crisis, there was a post-Infinite Crisis Crisis, and there is now a post-52 Crisis. The question is: just WHAT do they remember NOW about the CRISIS?

I believe the DC heroes think the Crisis was an effort to wipe out the timestream from beginning to end, not a fight for all the Multiverses.

[COMIC GEEK]

I think it comes down to DC making the rules as they go along.

now BRING BACK BARRY ALLEN PLEASE!

[OzBat!]

History has been rewritten, but in the majority of cases it progressed along familiar lines. So from this perspective, Barry was NOT "never really alive. He was just retroactively inserted into history after his death". That just doesn't make sense. Barry was inspired by Jay Allen, became the Flash, gained a junior partner in Wally, had a reasonably full life and then died in one of the fairly regular universe-threatening events the DCU is subjected to.

The heroes remember red skies, shadow demons, fighting the Anti-Monitor, Barry Allen dying to destroy the antimatter cannon AM was going to shoot at the earth. Because of the history alterations they don't remember the multiverse previously existing or being collapsed, or the loss of those who died outside the timestream at the very last battle. There are a couple of exceptions to this (earth-2 robin dying early on and not remembered, amongst others), but this is what makes this so mucked up today.

Remember kids, mucking with the timestream is bad, mmmmmmkay?

The crux of things is however, Barry died in most timelines fighting the big bad and taking out his number one weapon.

[snipe]

The original Crisis did not reboot DCU continuity - it negated / destroyed the multiverse. Wonder Woman rebooted due to her death in CoIE, Superman somewhat rebooted. Batman did not. Flash did not.
If the DCU rebooted, then we'd have seen the Dick Grayson as Robin years and, obviously, the Teen Titans series would have had to have been cancelled until therer were teen characters to use.

[frankiedetroit]

Ahh, grand memories of trying to figure out Crisis. Supergirl died fighting the Anti-Monitor, similarly to Barry. And yet no one remembers her. Why? Cuz she died before issue #10, when everything was rewritten. Just, however, like Barry.

And yet, after the Crisis ended, Superman and Batgirl had a memorial for her. At that point, they shouldn't have even remembered her.

[marshal99]

And yet, after the Crisis ended, Superman and Batgirl had a memorial for her. At that point, they shouldn't have even remembered her.

Where did that happened , the memorial for her ?!

[Buried Alien]

And yet, after the Crisis ended, Superman and Batgirl had a memorial for her. At that point, they shouldn't have even remembered her.

The old Multiverse might have ended in COIE # 10, and the new unified DCU might have emerged in COIE # 11, but that doesn't mean that all the temporal aftershocks were cleanly settled by the last panel of COIE # 12. Far from it. For the most part, the Pre-COIE status quo of continuity for most of the major characters lingered for about six months to a year afterward (depending on how quickly and urgently DC approached their reboot). For the Big Three, it happened relatively quickly: Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman had been retooled for Post-COIE continuity within a year of COIE's end. For other characters, such as Hawkman, the reboots and retcons didn't kick in until years later.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Dark Ben]

Where did that happened , the memorial for her ?!

The issue 9 (I think) of COIE

[Duy]

The issue 9 (I think) of COIE
It was issue 7, the same exact issue she died.

[botch]

Ha. This didn't answer my question. I'm basically being told that it makes 'no sense' and I should just accept it. Fair enough.

[Duy]

Actually, it makes perfect sense. History was revised after the Crisis so people remember different things. Barry Allen, in no way, shape or form was revised. Everyone remembers his life, and so everyone remembers his death. It's really that simple.

Bruce Wayne's parents were killed before the Crisis too. Are you saying they should have been forgotten?

[thehod]

Ha. This didn't answer my question. I'm basically being told that it makes 'no sense' and I should just accept it. Fair enough.

No you're not.

As has been explained, the changes created by Crisis wasn't as simple as everything prior to it was wiped out. The changes were fairly arbitrary.

Supergirl dies fighting the Anti-Monitor, but once the changes hit she was forgotton about.

Flash dies destroying the Anti-Monitors anti-matter cannon, and once the chages hit everyone remembers him and that he died fighting in the Crisis, but the full details of his death are a bit hazy.

The general populace remembers the Crisis, in that it was, for all intents and purposes, an invasion from an anti-matter universe, but all the parts about multiple universes, overlapping timezones and variant heroes (other than the ones that are folded into the single earths history) they had no idea about, because they never existed.

It makes no sense from their perspective because the changes that were made they never knew any different. We know different though, because we know the logic as to why which changes were made.

[marshal99]

As i have said before , Flash 150 revisits the "crisis" as it happened in the post-crisis era.
(Yes , that is the hand of the anti-monitor)
http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/32490582748.150.GIF