Worst examples of Mary Sues/Gary Stues in Novels.

[Cleric of Hell's Brigade]

Personally, I seem to come across more Mary Sues myself, but.......



Anyway's, what are the worst examples of such bad writing, in your opinion? Please remember to state evidence to support your claim.



I've heard Honor Harrington's name thrown around sometimes (I've only read the first three books, so I can only assume her Sueness kicks in later).

[Agent Helix]

How is it possible for there even to be a Mary Sue in a writer's own original work?

[Inkthinker]

Seems like they'd be just as likely to happen to an author's original work, especially if the author becomes so attached to the character that they can't bear to treat them badly (hence working the plot around so that the character is idealised).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue

Dunno 'bout Honor Harrington, though. Seems to me the worst example would be Nancy Drew.

[Agent Helix]

When did just plain bad writing get so many goofy little sub-definitions?

[Jared H.]

Elminster.

'Nuff said.

[Slam_Bradley]

Seems to me the worst example would be Nancy Drew.

The Hell?

How do you figure?

She was created by a male publisher. Had multiple writers, many of whom worked from plots by other people.

[Paul McEnery]

The whole Mary Sue thing just plain needs to be retired.

And anyone using Gary Stue should probably be beaten to death with a herring.

[Karl J Barnes]

The whole Mary Sue thing just plain needs to be retired.

And anyone using Gary Stue should probably be beaten to death with a herring.

A red one?

[DaeJi]

I think the term "Mary Sue" should only be used with discussing characters appearing in books that are not the writer's own creation. As such the term doesn't really apply to novels, only fanfiction and recently comic books.

[Inkthinker]

The Hell?

How do you figure?

She was created by a male publisher. Had multiple writers, many of whom worked from plots by other people.

Just 'cause in the few books that I read as a kid, I always recall her being a fairly idealised, perfect girl. I could be wrong, I haven't read a Nancy Drew novel since I was around 12. It's very likely that someone has come along and given the character some depth by this point.

The idea of something being "Mary Sue" is pretty open to individual interpretation. What one person considers to fit may not apply to another person. My sister stated that she felt the "19 years later" epilogue to the final HP book was a terrible Mary Sue ending, because everything seemed to work out so sweetly for everyone. I don't necessarily agree.

[Arvandor]

IF Mary Sues/Gary Stus exist, then the absolute worst example is Richard Cypher from the Sword of Truth series.

[Paul McEnery]

Just 'cause in the few books that I read as a kid, I always recall her being a fairly idealised, perfect girl. I could be wrong, I haven't read a Nancy Drew novel since I was around 12. It's very likely that someone has come along and given the character some depth by this point.

The idea of something being "Mary Sue" is pretty open to individual interpretation. What one person considers to fit may not apply to another person. My sister stated that she felt the "19 years later" epilogue to the final HP book was a terrible Mary Sue ending, because everything seemed to work out so sweetly for everyone. I don't necessarily agree.

And that's exactly why we should be done with it.

Not only do people get overexcited once they figure out what it means, as if they've been let into a big secret, but then they fling it around and prove they've got absolutely nooooooo bloody clue what it means. Not that what it means even matters anyway.

But I'm particularly arsed at the bold bit above.

From here on in, the idea of someone being a mackerel is pretty open to individual interpretation. For instance, Kurtz, at the end of Heart of Darkness was so totally a mackerel it blows my mind. And Willow, in Season 3 Episode 9, what a mackerel she turned out to be.

[Totoro Man]

um, so if I wanted to create a "Mary Sue" I'd let's say--get permission to write a new novel featuring Sherlock Holmes only to have him made to look like a fool by some new female detective (which I made up for the novel) and he gets pissed--but ultimately teams up with the new she-detective to help her save the day (because while she's perfect in nearly every damned way, she's still "only human", and this helps both of the characters seem that much more heroic and righteous as a result). in the end, he realizes he couldn't have done it on his own, and they become best friends forever--even though she did some back-stabbing undercover work that got Watson killed--there's no hard feelings.

how about that?

Nancy Drew can't be a Mary Sue--that'd be like calling Goku a Gary Stu! yeah, it's annoying that everybody else got turned into gibbering imeciles to make Goku look better--but I thought that was more about fan service and Toriyama paying the rent than anything else.

it has to be a self-inserted NEW character that has nothing to do with the original authors intentions or wishes.

you're more likely to find a Mary Sue or Gary Stu in some new Star Trek novel than in Nancy Drew mysteries.

[Paul McEnery]

I swear, if anyone I knew used the phrase Gary Stu in my presence, I'd punch them in the throat.

[Slam_Bradley]

I swear, if anyone I knew used the phrase Gary Stu in my presence, I'd punch them in the throat.

And I'd be happy to represent you, pro bono.

[Expletive Deleted]

Not only do people get overexcited once they figure out what it means, as if they've been let into a big secret, but then they fling it around and prove they've got absolutely nooooooo bloody clue what it means.So you're saying it's jumped the shark?

[Sean Whitmore]

Anyway's, what are the worst examples of such bad writing, in your opinion? Please remember to state evidence to support your claim.

There a reason you don't go first?



How is it possible for there even to be a Mary Sue in a writer's own original work?

It's not. It can't be, because then we'd have to accept such baffling statements as--


Seems to me the worst example would be Nancy Drew.

--at face value.



The idea of something being "Mary Sue" is pretty open to individual interpretation. What one person considers to fit may not apply to another person.

So why do we need a term that is no more substantial than "I liked it/I didn't like it"?



So you're saying it's jumped the shark?

I miss "jump the shark". It was a cute term. But schmucks misusing it has rendered it completely pointless, even more so than "mary sue".


SEAN

[Agent Helix]

This thread is full of Mary Sues.

[Joe Rice]

I think I just Mary Sued.

[Agent Helix]

That's so Mary Sue!

[Aaron Kashtan]

I'll Mary Sue you.

[Shellhead]

What about Godwin's Law? [runs away]

[Ed Cunard]

I think I just Mary Sued.

I would marry Sue, but he's a boy, and that's illegal.

[Paul McEnery]

So you're saying it's jumped the shark?

I've just cursed you with a sexual disease that won't show for three weeks.

See if you can guess which one.

[Agent Helix]

The Mary Sues?

[Paul McEnery]

I would marry Sue, but he's a boy, and that's illegal.

Fucker bit off a piece of my ear, too.

[Tobias March]

Fucker bit off a piece of my ear, too.

If I ever have a son, I'm going to name him Bill....or George!