The fall of Ditko

[Dr.J.]

And what a fall it was!!Back in 1966, Ditko was marvels second most popular artist,following kirby.Marvel was NEVER going to allow him the magnitude of control on the spidy book, he wanted,especialy when the collage age market was just beginning to really go for the book and marvel.Spidy and marvel prospered,becoming six years later,the number one comics company, with the number one book,spidy.Ditko, did not. His writing, his characterizations, were even worse then kirbys.While he still had it for designing great looking characters,they just didnt have it inside. pick up a copy of atlas 1975 destrucor title,to see what i mean. Or DC's 1975 stalker. He still could do a great creeper,or demon, then, even up to 1978,but his art by 1979 when he at long last came back to marvel,just didnt have it anymore,the fire had gone out. compare his hulk annual #9,or #249,to his hulk #6,or Astonish 60 -68. His hulk used to be second only to Kirby,and in many ways, equaled his hulk.Nonetheless, even after 14 years, the fans would have went nuts,if he again did the spidy book.At this point,if he finally consented to do a new spidy story with Lee,in the twilight of their lifes,and tallents,it wouldnt be no big deal,like it would have and could have,28 years ago.What a waste of tallent.He had a career few pros can dream of having.Thanks for nothing, Ann Rand.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I know it might be a bit obscure for American posters, but did anybody UK side catch the Ditko documentary which aired as part of the Comics Britannia season on BBC4? I found it quite interesting. Not really anything I didn't partially know before, but it was done respectfully, and came across with everybody who was interviewed having a genuine enthusiasm towards talking about the guy.

And watching Jonathan Ross and Neil Gaiman trying to barter their way into his office was brilliant. :D

[darkhawk76]

I saw it, very good doc

I actually came away from it with a little less respect for Stan, I think Steve probably is right to be miffed about the whole 'ownership' thing

[Kid Monster]

I doubt that Ditko considered it a "Fall", as he got to finally realize his goal of having creative control over his comics. And while characters such as The Question or (the utterly bizarre and fascinating) Mr. A. never became hits like Spider-man, they are wildly original creations that still inspire today, and comics would be poorer without them.

I was very lucky to catch the BBC SEARCH FOR STEVE DITKO documentary during the brief time it was up on YouTube. It's going directly to my list of the Top Ten movies of 2007. Absolutely fascinating and heartfelt, essential viewing.

[jackolover]

And what a fall it was!!Back in 1966, Ditko was marvels second most popular artist,following kirby.Marvel was NEVER going to allow him the magnitude of control on the spidy book, he wanted,especialy when the collage age market was just beginning to really go for the book and marvel.Spidy and marvel prospered,becoming six years later,the number one comics company, with the number one book,spidy.Ditko, did not. His writing, his characterizations, were even worse then kirbys.While he still had it for designing great looking characters,they just didnt have it inside. pick up a copy of atlas 1975 destrucor title,to see what i mean. Or DC's 1975 stalker. He still could do a great creeper,or demon, then, even up to 1978,but his art by 1979 when he at long last came back to marvel,just didnt have it anymore,the fire had gone out. compare his hulk annual #9,or #249,to his hulk #6,or Astonish 60 -68. His hulk used to be second only to Kirby,and in many ways, equaled his hulk.Nonetheless, even after 14 years, the fans would have went nuts,if he again did the spidy book.At this point,if he finally consented to do a new spidy story with Lee,in the twilight of their lifes,and tallents,it wouldnt be no big deal,like it would have and could have,28 years ago.What a waste of tallent.He had a career few pros can dream of having.Thanks for nothing, Ann Rand.

It wasn't as much that Steve Ditko lost it post-Marvel. It was that in pre-Hero Marvel, all the monster stories were gems. His art was shocking and brooding. You should go back and revisit these years, and the quality of his art. It just extrapolates straight into Spiderman, in it's dark, sorrowful, tragedy.

The 60's were a time when we came out of the dreary 50's, with it's serious aspects like the cold war and the communist red menace. Spiderman came on the tail of all that, and Ditkos storytelling was reflective of this. It wasn't till later that Ditkos stories brightened up, and the sick and sorrowful Peter Parker, became a happy character again. When ASM #38 came around, Ditko had run the gambit of emotion that one writer can input into his stories, and I think left the book not because of the editorial dispute, but because of a combination of frustration and burn-out.

When Ditko re-appeared, he wasn't imbued with the passion of the 50's anymore, but the restarting of a softer, optimistic Steve Ditko. Ditko had already done the dark stories that were in him. I don't think we aught to criticize him for running his gauntlet, and when finished, settled down to a quieter life.

Edit: If Ditko did come back today and write a Spidey book, it would be a romance story. His passion was evident in that Avengers book where multiple artists contributed to this story, where Steve Ditko took a character and gave him a poetic quality. I can't think of the book off hand, but it came out in the late 1990's. It had a new and vital feel about it.

[schmevil]

Somewhat off-topic: that doc was up on YouTube but it was removed. Does anyone have an alternate link? Everyone's been talking it up and I'm dying to watch it.

[static]

the ditko doc was good....That guy is one stubborn sonofagun! i didnt come away with any bad feelings for Stan Lee at all though. He did create Spiderman and kept inputing into the mythos for alot longer than Ditko. He wrote the book after Ditko left and was Spidermans promoter for decades since! Stan is definatly Spideys Father and Ditko is an uncle along with Romita Sr, Gerry Conway, len Wein and Ross Andru (not every uncle is created equal).

[md62]

What happened - triple post?

[md62]

Did the documentary comment on his work at Charlton comics?

[md62]

Did the documentary comment on his work at Charlton comics?

[The Sword Is Drawn]

It went into some detail on his creating The Question, and then Mr A. That led into his interests in the work of Ann Rayn (Spelling?) and some discussion with Alan Moore over that being the inspiration for Rorschach in Watchmen - with Ditko's comment on him being "Oh, he's like Mr A. Only He's insane". :D

The programme culminated with Ross and Gaiman tracking down Ditko's office, but not being allowed to meet him on camera. They didn't care. They got to meet him off-camera, for a chat. They were happy. :D