FF # 534 Richards was setting Hulk up pre vegas

[jigrig]

I just reread FF # 534 & Johnny says to Ben in regards of a sonic disrupter Richards had plugged into the Fantasticar to use on Hulk, Hulk hurls a boulder at the fantasticar smashing it, Johnny says to Ben " Huh. His aim never used to be that good, Reed was certain it would work which raises a question You know?" Ben "yeah? what question is that? Johnny "Why did Reed already have something plugged into the fantasticar that He designed specifically for the Hulk? Makes You wonder if He's got something in mind.
Richards may well be a skrull but this plan to launch Hulk into space was hatched long before That gamma bomb blew up in his face, & while I am here, this issue clearly shows Hulk was not at fault for anything that happened, He actually thought he was reliving relevant events in his life, when He threw Ben into the ground he thought He was saving Rick, He was in a hospital holding some patients hand trying to console him thinking he was Jim Wilson when Johnny like a moron comes flaming in.
Read this issue & You will know what I mean, Hulk was set up, iI dont know if Richards was acting solo or was in cahoots with who knows else but He knew the bomb was gonna set Hulk off & Johnny & Ben were supposed to be there to cover it up but as We all know it went horribly wrong, or right depending on who's point of view.
Check it out, I'd love to hear opinions.
Thanks.

[DaeJi]

Well, I think there's a good chance Reed is a Skrull, so I would go along with it. Though then again you could just be reading into things.

[Bulky Brent]

I Think both Dr Strange, Reed Richards, and Stark set the Hulk up assuming that they are Skrulls.

[XPac]

In some ways, Reed would be the easiest FF person to replace.

Duplicating Strange or Black Bolt would be pretty hard. Namor and Xavier are a little easier, but by FAR the easiest would be either Stark or Reed. Stark at the time had no powers, and they can to a degree duplicate Reeds powers anyways.

Since they are from a more technologically advanced race, a good Skrull scientist might be able to do a passable job immitating Reed.

I doubt any of the Illuminati are Skrulls... but if any are I defiantely think Reed is a good candidate. He also seems one of the most vocal about them NOT being responsible for the ship blowing up. That doesn't necessarily mean anything... but it could be a case of him doth protesting too much.

[DaeJi]

I doubt any of the Illuminati are Skrulls...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Marvel (Bendis) come out and say that one the Illuminati will be reveled to be a Skrull? We already know Stark isn't one though, as Marvel has already come and said that he's not.

[Clea]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Marvel (Bendis) come out and say that one the Illuminati will be reveled to be a Skrull? We already know Stark isn't one though, as Marvel has already come and said that he's not.

Did Bendis actually say that? I don't recall. I thought that all that has been said is that one of the Illuminati is 'not who he seems to be,' which probably means that one is a Skrull. That wording could be a red herring though. It could just as easily mean that Black Bolt or Namor are no longer kings, or that Strange is no longer Sorcerer Supreme, or something equally sneaky.

[Mike Smash!]

Reed's powers would be the easiest for the Skrulls to replicate. They've made stretchy Skrulls before - like the Super Skrull. It's certainly easier than getting a Skrull to learn to use Strange's magic.

[Magneto Rocks]

The big problem with the Reed is a Skrull theory is that the FF's own title is not at *ALL* involved in Secret Invasion, so either he's going to be revealed and every single reprucussion of that dealt with in two months, or it's not going to happen, or it will happen and not affect the FF's own book in any way.

But considering that the next 2 issues of FF after the current arc were never even supposed to happen and only exist because of Hitch's delay, and considering the solicits don't support it being a Skrull, and considering Tom B said it would be contained to Avengers titles until next year, and considering Millar is going to write Reed probably VERY similar to the way he did in Civil War...

...The "Reed is a Skrull" theory is becoming very unlikely.

[Kevinroc]

Did Bendis actually say that? I don't recall. I thought that all that has been said is that one of the Illuminati is 'not who he seems to be,' which probably means that one is a Skrull. That wording could be a red herring though. It could just as easily mean that Black Bolt or Namor are no longer kings, or that Strange is no longer Sorcerer Supreme, or something equally sneaky.

Brian Reed said one of them was a Skrull in a wordballoon interview. :)

[CaptainCanada]

Brian Reed said one of them was a Skrull in a wordballoon interview. :)
As I recall, he used the same wording the solicits do; one of them "isn't what they seem/appear", which I've thought from the start is a major piece of misdirection.

[DaeJi]

Brian Reed said one of them was a Skrull in a wordballoon interview. :)

It seems I've gotten the two Brians mixed up :p. Personally, for my money I'm pegging Strange be a Skrull, simply because it would easy to replace him (Civil War) and he's seemed to be the most out of character of the Illumnati.

[CaptainCanada]

It seems I've gotten the two Brians mixed up :p. Personally, for my money I'm pegging Strange be a Skrull, simply because it would easy to replace him (Civil War) and he's seemed to be the most out of character of the Illumnati.
Why would Skrull Strange do any of the things that Strange does in WWH? Like, stay to potentially be killed fighting the Hulk?

The only Illuminatus for whom it's even remotely plausible is Black Bolt.

[DaeJi]

Why would Skrull Strange do any of the things that Strange does in WWH? Like, stay to potentially be killed fighting the Hulk?

The only Illuminatus for whom it's even remotely plausible is Black Bolt.

Or maybe Spidey is right and the Skrull agents don't know that they're Skrull agents.

[Superbeast]

In regards to Strange, his summoning of Zom counts against him, however the fact he is able to use mystical forces and channel extra dimensional beings is a pretty sure sign he's not a Skrull. If he was a fraud he'd have been easily overpowered by Zom as a pretender incapable of harnessing his powers. A Skrull would be an unfit avatar for Zom.

As for Stark, Marvel have said no.

BB, possible but questionable since his powers would be very hard to replicate.

Namor, well, his choice to not involve himself might suggest he wants humanity to fall and his raw gangsta attitude against Venom might suggest something amiss, but then again Namor has been a bit of an asshole ever since he first appeared due to his royal status.

Xavier, well, he's walking for no obvious reasons but he was willing to surrender to the Hulk which doesn't suggest he is trying to stir the pot in the MU.

Reed on the other hand changed his mind halfway through CW, surprising even his wife and brother in law, forged Clor with Pym and Iron Man (using advanced Skrull technology Reed already had... or the Skrull brought with him?) to cast Thor in a bad light, he has been having marital issues communicating with his wife due to his flip flopping suspect behaviour and we know the Skrulls have the technology to replicate the FF's powers. I'd put my money on Reed personally. They probably still haven't forgiven him for the Skrull Throneworld acting as Galactus's brunch.

[dabig2]

I don't know if Reed set it up/is a skrull, but I do know that SOMEONE set up that entire thing. They went out of their way to find the Hulk to deactivate an unknown nuclear device. It was the first thing I thought of when I read those issues last year- that it was a set-up by the corrupts in SHIELD (same ones from the NA storyline).

[CaptainCanada]

BB, possible but questionable since his powers would be very hard to replicate.
The Skrulls got to examine him in NA:I #1; anyway, he almost never uses them.

Reed on the other hand changed his mind halfway through CW
Um, where? He was pro-reg all the way through.

[XPac]

The big problem with the Reed is a Skrull theory is that the FF's own title is not at *ALL* involved in Secret Invasion, so either he's going to be revealed and every single reprucussion of that dealt with in two months, or it's not going to happen, or it will happen and not affect the FF's own book in any way.

But considering that the next 2 issues of FF after the current arc were never even supposed to happen and only exist because of Hitch's delay, and considering the solicits don't support it being a Skrull, and considering Tom B said it would be contained to Avengers titles until next year, and considering Millar is going to write Reed probably VERY similar to the way he did in Civil War...

...The "Reed is a Skrull" theory is becoming very unlikely.

It's possibly that the Reed Skrull could be exposed at the end of the Illuminati series, and the real Reed will somehow return by the stark of Millars run.

Or it's possible that Millar will just kinda do his own thing, and continuity will be sorted out later (sort of like Silent War and WWH).

Not saying I think Reed is a skrull (really, I'm still not sure ANY of them are), but on paper at least I would think Reed would be a logical choice. He's the one I'd go after if I were the skrulls honestly.

[XPac]

The Skrulls got to examine him in NA:I #1; anyway, he almost never uses them.



Course, if the Skrulls have the means of replicating Black Bolt (or Strange) then you really have something to worry about. That's scary powerful.

[Omega Alpha]

Since they are from a more technologically advanced race, a good Skrull scientist might be able to do a passable job immitating Reed.


No, because Reed is the smartest individual in the MU. Plus, if there were a Skrull that smart:

1) Where was he every time the FF fought the Skrulls?

2) Why would they waste him on Earth?

The big problem with the Reed is a Skrull theory is that the FF's own title is not at *ALL* involved in Secret Invasion, so either he's going to be revealed and every single reprucussion of that dealt with in two months, or it's not going to happen, or it will happen and not affect the FF's own book in any way.

But considering that the next 2 issues of FF after the current arc were never even supposed to happen and only exist because of Hitch's delay, and considering the solicits don't support it being a Skrull, and considering Tom B said it would be contained to Avengers titles until next year, and considering Millar is going to write Reed probably VERY similar to the way he did in Civil War...

...The "Reed is a Skrull" theory is becoming very unlikely.

How dare you use logics and facts when it's much easier to just say Reed is a Skrull? :mad:

[Sabrinaset]

On the one hand, I think there was an interview where someone said that you shouldn't be too linear when it comes to who was a skrull and who wasn't, in other words, in some cases there was a Skrull impersonating Tony, in other cases namor, and so forth.

On the OTHER hand, Marvel Legends is releasing an Illuminati figure set soon, and this may be a spoiler ...

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f336/sabrinaset/Illuminati001.jpg

[XPac]

No, because Reed is the smartest individual in the MU. Plus, if there were a Skrull that smart:

1) Where was he every time the FF fought the Skrulls?

2) Why would they waste him on Earth?



Though Reed is ridiculously smart, he's a part of a civilizion that could be thousands of years behind the skrulls in terms of science and technology. The smartest caveman on earth at the time still comes off comparatively primative by todays standards. It's the unfair advantage you get from comparing more advanced civilizations. The people from a more advanced civilization are products of their enviroment.

Again, I'm not saying that any Skrull is necessarily as smart as Reed. But a good Skrull scientist should be able to do a reasonable enough job faking it. There are only so many people around smart enough to tell the difference. I'm not exactly sure where those Skrull scientists are all this time, but SOMEONE designed those space ships the Skrulls are seen flying around in. So they exist.

As for why they would waste time on earth... I'm not exactly sure why the Skrulls originally decided to try and conquer earth. But recently their people have had their share of set backs... hopefully Bendis will give a clearer idea of the Skrulls motivations than your generic alien invasion story.

[DaeJi]

Sabrinaset you are my hero :D.

[magmer]

In regards to Strange, his summoning of Zom counts against him, however the fact he is able to use mystical forces and channel extra dimensional beings is a pretty sure sign he's not a Skrull. If he was a fraud he'd have been easily overpowered by Zom as a pretender incapable of harnessing his powers. A Skrull would be an unfit avatar for Zom.


It is entirely possible for a skrull to learn magic as far as I know. Thus if Strange was a skrull he would have had training in the things you mentioned.

No, because Reed is the smartest individual in the MU. Plus, if there were a Skrull that smart:

1) Where was he every time the FF fought the Skrulls?

2) Why would they waste him on Earth?


The situation is that he doesn't have to be as smart as Reed. When Reed would have to of come up with an invention its possible that the skrulls came up with a similar one that could be modified to the situation. Not saying the hypothetical Mr. Skrull is not smart, but he doesn't have to be as smart as reed. Also he could of been working in his lab on the other side of the empire when the FF fought the skrulls.

[jackolover]

I don't know if Reed set it up/is a skrull, but I do know that SOMEONE set up that entire thing. They went out of their way to find the Hulk to deactivate an unknown nuclear device. It was the first thing I thought of when I read those issues last year- that it was a set-up by the corrupts in SHIELD (same ones from the NA storyline).

This is a good pickup. It does smell like a setup, especially when the Hulk was away minding his own business, and they go and hunt him out. Then the Illuminati decide Hulk is too destructive, and again set him up to take a flight out of the solar system.

As for the Skrulls. We've already been told as a clue, that the Skrulls don't steal an ID, but borrow it for a moment, to change history. So, the Reed who visited Sentry with Tony, and smiled afterwards, was a quick Reed change, and no one was the wiser. Then the Skrull disappeared as some unknown. This can apparently be done to Tony or anyone, for that matter.

[jigrig]

When I started this thread I had hoped I would get some insight on what You Guys & Gals thought about the whole Hulk being set up & why, do You think He is still the villain or not or maybe You would be more forgiving or more harsh but it seems all I've done was spark another Skrull plot.
Well, like My Gal says, everything I touch turns to s@#t & She should know.
Thanks anyhow.

[Omega Alpha]

Though Reed is ridiculously smart, he's a part of a civilizion that could be thousands of years behind the skrulls in terms of science and technology. The smartest caveman on earth at the time still comes off comparatively primative by todays standards. It's the unfair advantage you get from comparing more advanced civilizations. The people from a more advanced civilization are products of their enviroment.

Again, I'm not saying that any Skrull is necessarily as smart as Reed. But a good Skrull scientist should be able to do a reasonable enough job faking it. There are only so many people around smart enough to tell the difference. I'm not exactly sure where those Skrull scientists are all this time, but SOMEONE designed those space ships the Skrulls are seen flying around in. So they exist.

As for why they would waste time on earth... I'm not exactly sure why the Skrulls originally decided to try and conquer earth. But recently their people have had their share of set backs... hopefully Bendis will give a clearer idea of the Skrulls motivations than your generic alien invasion story.

Again, if there is someone so smart among the Skrulls, whether he's smarter than Reed or not, why he has never shown up when it was necessary? To have one appear now would be the same as a Skrull as powerful as the Silver Surfer show up. Where the hell was he when it was needed? And Reed Richards has been outsmarting Doom, someone who goes toe-to-toe to the Beyonder and the Silver Surfer all the time, for years now, as well as Galactus, who consumed the Skrull throne-world, and when he came, the only thing they did was to use spaceships to attack him (and Galactus only was alive because Reed saved him). Even with more technological advances, you can't replace the quick thinking and the understanding Reed has about those characters.

Not to mention the obvious fact that this would retcon years of stories and the entire MU, and the book that would feel the most effect is one that Bendis is not involved in any way, and would make all Millar's stories, on a time his contract with Marvel is coming close to end and they will want to keep him, pointless. And, oh, Reed has died a few times too and was never shown to be a Skrull.

[mattx110]

On the one hand, I think there was an interview where someone said that you shouldn't be too linear when it comes to who was a skrull and who wasn't, in other words, in some cases there was a Skrull impersonating Tony, in other cases namor, and so forth.

On the OTHER hand, Marvel Legends is releasing an Illuminati figure set soon, and this may be a spoiler ...

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f336/sabrinaset/Illuminati001.jpg

that is the funniest punchline i've seen in a long time. good job.

and jigrig, don't worry, the skrull thing is a massive crossover thing with implications on the past 5 years of marvel and the next 2 or 3, so if someone (like reed) is doing something suspicious, it brings up skrull questions.
since reed is an illuminati, who only exist to plot in secret... what happens to hulk and who is behind it might be part of a larger storyline.

[Magneto Rocks]

As for the Skrulls. We've already been told as a clue, that the Skrulls don't steal an ID, but borrow it for a moment, to change history. So, the Reed who visited Sentry with Tony, and smiled afterwards, was a quick Reed change, and no one was the wiser. Then the Skrull disappeared as some unknown. This can apparently be done to Tony or anyone, for that matter.

I can see why some scenes might have a Skrull but I have *NO* idea why that particular scene would have a Skrull of Reed. He did absolutely nothing in the Sentry scene, except help Tony explain things to Sentry, then go off. What POSSIBLE gains could the Skrulls have made from impersonating Reed just for that?

And incidentally, that would require the Skrull to have impersonated him in order to pick up the message from Tony telling them to meet, and would have to pray the real Reed didn't contact Tony (fairly unlikely) and would need to hope they never ever mentioned that meeting again, etc.... it just seems silly, to be honest.

[ExodusCloak]

Well it's definitely not Xavier, since he was chucked into the M'Kraan crystal. And it's X-mentality for an X-Universe character to take precedence over MU storylines. For example how they had to write Xavier out of being present when they decided to send Hulk into space.

Tony Stark, they said he and Capt are not Skrulls. So he's not one.

Though logic tells us as a user pointed out above, that the FF's main title isn't involved in the Invasion...so if that's the case then it's very unlikely to be Reed.

I'm not entirely sure about the others.

BlackBolt...Namor...Dr. Strange.


It's plausable that anyone of them could have been switched right before Civil War since Xavier(Telepath) wasn't present at the time. Come to think of it Namor just had an encounter with Xavier recently...so if there was something odd about him Xavier who is more powerful then ever should have noticed.

Blackbolt, after his reaction in Silent War I just find it really hard to believe that he's a Skrull. But it's not impossible, he could very well be one. But you'd think Medusa being his soulmate etc.. would have noticed.

I'd go with Strange. Even though it's hard to believe that a Skrull who is well versed in magic could channel Zoms power. Only problem I see with the Strange theory is that if he was a Skrull and the Hulk was after him...I see no reason why he wouldn't have banished him to another dimension with a thought. (Unless he didn't have the power to do so, which makes absolutely no sense because he had the power to invoke Zom) meh..rant over.

[Bulky Brent]

Black Bolt's actions during Silent War and his recent fight with the Hulk could be considered evidence that he's not a Skrull.

[ivesaidway2much]

Again, if there is someone so smart among the Skrulls, whether he's smarter than Reed or not, why he has never shown up when it was necessary? To have one appear now would be the same as a Skrull as powerful as the Silver Surfer show up. Where the hell was he when it was needed? And Reed Richards has been outsmarting Doom, someone who goes toe-to-toe to the Beyonder and the Silver Surfer all the time, for years now, as well as Galactus, who consumed the Skrull throne-world, and when he came, the only thing they did was to use spaceships to attack him (and Galactus only was alive because Reed saved him). Even with more technological advances, you can't replace the quick thinking and the understanding Reed has about those characters. Reed Richards isn't THAT smart. He may be the smartest person on Earth, but it's not as if he makes the rest of the geniuses on Earth seem like babbling morons. He still occasionally comes to them for aid when he runs into problems in their particular area of expertise. Even then there is still only so much brains can do on their own. Which is why he usually needs quite a bit of super powered help to defeat, for instance, Galactus. As for Skrulls as smart or somewhere in the neighborhood of Reed, all you have to do is look at the Super Skrull project. Skrull scientists artificially gave Kl'rt the combined powers of the Fantastic Four. They also gave Titannus so much power that he easily defeated a team of Defenders that included Doc Strange and the Hulk. Eventually it took a guy with cosmic powers to take him down. Super genius Skrulls have been present in the MU since at least Fantastic Four #18.

[jackolover]

I can see why some scenes might have a Skrull but I have *NO* idea why that particular scene would have a Skrull of Reed. He did absolutely nothing in the Sentry scene, except help Tony explain things to Sentry, then go off. What POSSIBLE gains could the Skrulls have made from impersonating Reed just for that?

And incidentally, that would require the Skrull to have impersonated him in order to pick up the message from Tony telling them to meet, and would have to pray the real Reed didn't contact Tony (fairly unlikely) and would need to hope they never ever mentioned that meeting again, etc.... it just seems silly, to be honest.

Yes, there would have been problems with logistics, but the way the pro-regs operate, I see no problems with Tony seeing Reed for a successfully resolved meeting, may never be mentioned again, because Tony has so much on his plate. Same if Tony is impersonated for a meeting. Whose going to question it? Too much is going on.

As for the reason why the Sentry was approached, it seems obvious that getting him involved in the pro-reg side would bring the War to a faster conclusion, so any thing to disrupt the harmony of the superheroes is a plus for the Skrulls.

[jigrig]

Would it be possible for anyone to kind of opine about the first post, AKA the 1 I started this mess with?
It has been pointed out that this is not a Hulk board but a W.W.HULK board so where the f#@k is this crap coming from?
But seriously Folks, aint nobody got no opinion on the first post made on this thread?

[Barnaby]

Reed Richards isn't THAT smart. He may be the smartest person on Earth, but it's not as if he makes the rest of the geniuses on Earth seem like babbling morons. He still occasionally comes to them for aid when he runs into problems in their particular area of expertise. Even then there is still only so much brains can do on their own. Which is why he usually needs quite a bit of super powered help to defeat, for instance, Galactus. As for Skrulls as smart or somewhere in the neighborhood of Reed, all you have to do is look at the Super Skrull project. Skrull scientists artificially gave Kl'rt the combined powers of the Fantastic Four. They also gave Titannus so much power that he easily defeated a team of Defenders that included Doc Strange and the Hulk. Eventually it took a guy with cosmic powers to take him down. Super genius Skrulls have been present in the MU since at least Fantastic Four #18.


Right on! It would be relatively easy for a skull to mimic Reed in terms of power and intelect! I find much more dificult for them to imitate BB's sonic scream or Strange's magic, if they could do that, they'd use it before and really threaten the world.

[jackolover]

Would it be possible for anyone to kind of opine about the first post, AKA the 1 I started this mess with?
It has been pointed out that this is not a Hulk board but a W.W.HULK board so where the f#@k is this crap coming from?
But seriously Folks, aint nobody got no opinion on the first post made on this thread?

As for your first post, there doesn't appear to be anything fishy about what Reed had arranged with the Fantasti-car, that other superheroes haven't done in the past. Rigging up a high pitched sound to affect Hulks inner ear seems very simple, and I couldn't make anything of Torches questions about Reeds manipulation, as you are making out. All I can say is that I don't know why Johnny became suspicious of the tactic, unless he suspects Reed wanted to manipulate the Hulk after controlling Hulk with the inner ears noise? That seems kind of vague in any case. Not Skrully by any means

[morwen]

This is a good pickup. It does smell like a setup, especially when the Hulk was away minding his own business, and they go and hunt him out. Then the Illuminati decide Hulk is too destructive, and again set him up to take a flight out of the solar system.

As for the Skrulls. We've already been told as a clue, that the Skrulls don't steal an ID, but borrow it for a moment, to change history. So, the Reed who visited Sentry with Tony, and smiled afterwards, was a quick Reed change, and no one was the wiser. Then the Skrull disappeared as some unknown. This can apparently be done to Tony or anyone, for that matter.

That fits perfectly with the claim that this was seeded back at the start of the New Avengers run. Am convinced 100% that the dangling plot thread will have something to do with Secret Wars.

[XPac]

Again, if there is someone so smart among the Skrulls, whether he's smarter than Reed or not, why he has never shown up when it was necessary? To have one appear now would be the same as a Skrull as powerful as the Silver Surfer show up. Where the hell was he when it was needed? And Reed Richards has been outsmarting Doom, someone who goes toe-to-toe to the Beyonder and the Silver Surfer all the time, for years now, as well as Galactus, who consumed the Skrull throne-world, and when he came, the only thing they did was to use spaceships to attack him (and Galactus only was alive because Reed saved him). Even with more technological advances, you can't replace the quick thinking and the understanding Reed has about those characters.

Not to mention the obvious fact that this would retcon years of stories and the entire MU, and the book that would feel the most effect is one that Bendis is not involved in any way, and would make all Millar's stories, on a time his contract with Marvel is coming close to end and they will want to keep him, pointless. And, oh, Reed has died a few times too and was never shown to be a Skrull.

Saying that there's a very smart Skrull is not the same thing as saying there's one as powerful as the Silver Surfer. It's not an unfair assumption to say that a smart skrull is out there. Again, this is clearly a very higly advanced civilization.

But obviously this would be a retcon of years of stories, which is why I'm not sure any of the Illuminati are actually Skrulls. And truthfully, if we're using the Kree-Skrull war as a starting point all them have died between now and then. So perhaps the idea is that the Skrulls didn't impersonate the person the entire time.

[Magneto Rocks]

Right on! It would be relatively easy for a skull to mimic Reed in terms of power and intelect! I find much more dificult for them to imitate BB's sonic scream or Strange's magic,

Unless of course, they'd held either of them captive or anything...

I fail to see how it's harder to impersonate stretching the body like that than a sonic scream.

[ivesaidway2much]

Unless of course, they'd held either of them captive or anything...

I fail to see how it's harder to impersonate stretching the body like that than a sonic scream.Since Skrulls are naturally shape shifters I fail to see how you fail to see how it's harder for them to impersonate someone with a massive sonic scream as opposed to someone who stretches his body. Plus Black Bolt can do all that crazy electron manipulation stuff like matter transmutation.

[Hulk Strongest One]

In regards to Strange, his summoning of Zom counts against him, however the fact he is able to use mystical forces and channel extra dimensional beings is a pretty sure sign he's not a Skrull. If he was a fraud he'd have been easily overpowered by Zom as a pretender incapable of harnessing his powers. A Skrull would be an unfit avatar for Zom.

He also wouldn't have second thoughts halfway through the battle. Also, Zom would have ripped the truth free faster than Spock on a Sex in the City girl.

As for Stark, Marvel have said no.

True, although making improvements on armor would be trivial for such an advanced race -- powerwise, he'd be the easiest to replace. No Super Skrull-like modifications necessary (beyond some plastic surgery.)

BB, possible but questionable since his powers would be very hard to replicate.

I don't know. Aren't inhumans just another variant of mutant human (perhaps different from X-gene, whatever).

Namor, well, his choice to not involve himself might suggest he wants humanity to fall and his raw gangsta attitude against Venom might suggest something amiss, but then again Namor has been a bit of an asshole ever since he first appeared due to his royal status.

He's ever been this way -- a bit of a hothead leader, and a royal streak in his attitudes.

Xavier, well, he's walking for no obvious reasons but he was willing to surrender to the Hulk which doesn't suggest he is trying to stir the pot in the MU.

Doubt he could keep it psychically concealed from other mutants, unless he relied on some kind of we-don't-scan-each-other convention.

Reed on the other hand changed his mind halfway through CW, surprising even his wife and brother in law, forged Clor with Pym and Iron Man (using advanced Skrull technology Reed already had... or the Skrull brought with him?) to cast Thor in a bad light, he has been having marital issues communicating with his wife due to his flip flopping suspect behaviour and we know the Skrulls have the technology to replicate the FF's powers. I'd put my money on Reed personally. They probably still haven't forgiven him for the Skrull Throneworld acting as Galactus's brunch.

Reed makes the most sense given the Skrulls have already duplicated the FF's powers. That + their advanced science would allow such a plant to operate almost indefinitely.

My only question is: how far back does it go? I find it hard to believe a Skrull would be bright enough to, impromptu, whip up a Galactus-splitter device like Reed did last year. I'm not sure, but wasn't that after they sent Hulk away?

[Magneto Rocks]

Since Skrulls are naturally shape shifters I fail to see how you fail to see how it's harder for them to impersonate someone with a massive sonic scream as opposed to someone who stretches his body. Plus Black Bolt can do all that crazy electron manipulation stuff like matter transmutation.

Okay, that was me being an idiot and forgetting that Skrulls are shapeshifters, which is pretty damn basic. But if they can create the powers of the Invisible Woman and Human Torch, then a sonic scream's pretty easy.

The in-universe evidnece points to Reed.

The out of universe evidence makes a pretty damn compelling case against him.

[Superbeast]

My only question is: how far back does it go? I find it hard to believe a Skrull would be bright enough to, impromptu, whip up a Galactus-splitter device like Reed did last year. I'm not sure, but wasn't that after they sent Hulk away?

The Skrulls may have learned from their homeworld being destroyed and developed that kind of technology since they are familiar with Galactus and his abilities.

The Skrulls are less familiar with the Hulk and how to deal with him, however the reason Sentry was even approached was because of his powers and ability to take the Hulk's strength away by using his calming gold aura. The Skrull Reed could have tried to replicate what Iron Man's ace would do because he doesn't know any better.

As for BB, he doesn't have a sonic scream. His voice literally causes electrons to destabilise in matter and rend themselves to dust. He causes tremors and could literally vaporise a human like an A Bomb at point blank range. While Skrulls can shapeshift, only the Super Skrull had extra powers with Skrulls. Just because they can look like someone else or change their exterior traits, there's not been anything to suggest they can mimic innate or mutant traits without genetic modification. Kl'rt the Super Skrull was specifically augmented to replicate the FF's powers. Above average strength, shapeshifting and energy manipulation using their technology only allows them a limited amount of people they could replicate with ease. I doubt they could replicate Wolverine's adamantium coated bones no matter how skilled the Skrull was.

[Barnaby]

Okay, that was me being an idiot and forgetting that Skrulls are shapeshifters, which is pretty damn basic. But if they can create the powers of the Invisible Woman and Human Torch, then a sonic scream's pretty easy.


We're not talking about Banshee here... We're talking about a guy who can destroy part of the moon just by talking a little louder! That's a huge difference!

[Superbeast]

We're not talking about Banshee here... We're talking about a guy who can destroy part of the moon just by talking a little louder! That's a huge difference!

Not just a little louder. He sniffles, the walls shake. He coughs, there are tectonic plates shifting. If he burped, there goes a chunk of the Moon. His speaking voice at normal volume gets the attention of cosmic entities. That is power that would be nigh impossible to mimic.

[Loner]

Reed's not a Skrull. He's just been unwittingly drinking Skrull milk.

[Alan2099]

Another advantage of trying to imperssonate Reed is that Reed tends to spend lots of his time alone and has very poor people skills, that means less of a chance of blowing the skrulls cover.

[steve2275]

Not just a little louder. He sniffles, the walls shake. He coughs, there are tectonic plates shifting. If he burped, there goes a chunk of the Moon. His speaking voice at normal volume gets the attention of cosmic entities. That is power that would be nigh impossible to mimic.
thats funny...i dont care who you are :cool:

[Magneto Rocks]

Not just a little louder. He sniffles, the walls shake. He coughs, there are tectonic plates shifting. If he burped, there goes a chunk of the Moon. His speaking voice at normal volume gets the attention of cosmic entities. That is power that would be nigh impossible to mimic.

MUCH easier than imitaiting Strange's magic.

Or, one could argue, imitaiting Tony. I know they're NOT imitaiting him, but it would be pretty damn hard to. Not the powers, that would be easy. But his relations to everyone, his knowledge, his inventiveness, the limits and whatnot of his powers which no one but him knows (He never had them when he was captured), his position etc all make him very tricky to imitaite.

But Black Bolt's power wouldn't be that difficult at all for a race as advanced as the Skrulls- certainly, if they have someone as smart as Reed, it couldn't be that hard to make Bolt's power.

[ivesaidway2much]

But Black Bolt's power wouldn't be that difficult at all for a race as advanced as the Skrulls- certainly, if they have someone as smart as Reed, it couldn't be that hard to make Bolt's power.But then why would they need spies at all? Even super cosmics like Eternity take notice when Black Bolt opens his mouth. If they could reliably replicate Black Bolt's powers who or what could stop an army of Black Bolt Skrulls? Even the Annihilation Wave would have been no match for them.

[Magneto Rocks]

If they could easily mimic REED'S intelligence, there's no need for a spy invasion either. They'd have technology FAR beyond anything Earth could throw at them to wipe out mankind.

There are very very simple explanations. Maybe they could only make one with Black Bolt's power. Maybe the secret is only in the hands of the Skrulls who want Earth- remember, these are the Skrulls who were discredited and had little power during the Annihilation war. Maybe they only unlocked the secret AFTER that. Maybe it was being kept as a last reserve weapon. Has anyone noticed Black Bolt hasn't actually screamed properly in some time, ambiguity of the last page of Silent War aside? Who says Skrull Bolt didn't scream his highest in WWH1 and that's why it didn't work- because they didn't replicate it well enough?

There are dozens of explanations, and really it's JUST as easy to invent an explanation for as mimicking Reed's brains.

[ivesaidway2much]

If they could easily mimic REED'S intelligence, there's no need for a spy invasion either. They'd have technology FAR beyond anything Earth could throw at them to wipe out mankind.The Skrulls already have fairly decent scientists and technology far above Earth's. But let's just say for argument's sake, they have no one as smart as Reed. Given their pretty good genetics program, I'd say it's reasonable to think they probably have at least one guy with Hank Pym type skills. If intelligence was what they were after, they could just clone that guy or their Tony Stark-equivalent or their Fixer-equivalent or whatever. They might not be quite as good or smart as Reed, but when you have an army of them, it's close enough. Or is it your belief that every single Skrull in the universe is sub super-genius level?

[oanswat]

You guys have got to think about this as though you're from a race of warrior shape shifters with a little religious craze thrown in for good measure. You're not gonna use your technology to bash earth into submission. you'll just invade it quietly, patiently, let it continue functioning and producing, small manipulations here and there until they are taken over allready and don't know it yet and then strike with everything you have when the timing is perfect. You can be anyone and do anything. You don't need powers to change the course of the worlds politics, jsut words from the right poeple and it's all done for you.

Remember, these skrulls have invaded hundreds of worlds in the past, if not thousands. They know how to do it and they wouldn't do it anything like we would.

[XPac]

Or, one could argue, imitaiting Tony. I know they're NOT imitaiting him, but it would be pretty damn hard to. Not the powers, that would be easy. But his relations to everyone, his knowledge, his inventiveness, the limits and whatnot of his powers which no one but him knows (He never had them when he was captured), his position etc all make him very tricky to imitaite.



I don't think Tony is a skrull either (I'm not sure any of them are to be honest), but just to play devil's advocate...

Tony lately has been isolating himself from his friends. He has very few personal confidants these days, so it would actually be easier for a Skrull to impersonate him than before.

As director of SHIELD, he's likely spending less time inventing things and more time running the military organization (something a skrull spy might be capable of doing). I don't see how a skrull could have immitated Tony all this time... but a recent switch would be possible. Really, at this point if the skrulls were going to want to swap out anyone it would be him.

Again though, I don't think he's a skrull.

[jigrig]

All You guys & gals are would be world beaters!
It's friggen comics man, little Jimmy next door takes His Cosmic cap pistol He got from the lone survivor of an alien spacecraft that crash landed silently in His backyard without waking anyone else up, the lone survivor with It's last gasp telepathically emparting the secret of said cap gun before his demise little Jimmy now has the means to SAVE or SLAY all of EXISTANCE!
Some shit like that.
Jimmy, close Your eyes, pull the trigger & do a whirlygig.
Thats a good lad.
WAIT!
One more shot innkeeper.
Please continue James. :D

[mattx110]

All You guys & gals are would be world beaters!
It's friggen comics man, little Jimmy next door takes His Cosmic cap pistol He got from the lone survivor of an alien spacecraft that crash landed silently in His backyard without waking anyone else up, the lone survivor with It's last gasp telepathically emparting the secret of said cap gun before his demise little Jimmy now has the means to SAVE or SLAY all of EXISTANCE!
Some shit like that.
Jimmy, close Your eyes, pull the trigger & do a whirlygig.
Thats a good lad.
WAIT!
One more shot innkeeper.
Please continue James. :D

calm down, it's only a dream.
what are you on about anyway?

[jigrig]

calm down, it's only a dream.
what are you on about anyway?



about 30 mg's worth of endoset 1 mg alprolazam, over a gallon of jack & coke, gettin close to the 30th miller light, ignore me.
If I've offended anyone please accept my apology now as i doubt i'll even remember posting.
I KNOW, I KNOW, all that damned caffeine.

[mattx110]

about 30 mg's worth of endoset 1 mg alprolazam, over a gallon of jack & coke, gettin close to the 30th miller light, ignore me.
If I've offended anyone please accept my apology now as i doubt i'll even remember posting.
I KNOW, I KNOW, all that damned caffeine.

just don't drive and remember how sunny the world is through sober eyes:D

[jigrig]

just don't drive and remember how sunny the world is through sober eyes:D

I never heard that one before, but I'm not one of those guys that feels the need to put anyones life in danger just to prove what a defiant drunk I can be besides, anything I need is within staggering distance.
All joking aside, the above is still sage advice.
What I was originally "on about" was, I notice that just like passing a story on, the first posts of most threads by the time it gets to the fifth Person it's totally unrecognizable.
Not a big deal, I had hoped that since I only read comics with The Hulk in them that I could get some insight as to what I might be missing that could have a major effect in this story & leave Me totally confused.
More so than I've given You reason to believe I am now.